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Mile High Champ
08-27-2010, 12:26 PM
Hey guys, Some of you may remember that for the last two years I have conducted a poll at the end of the season that had PSD users vote for the top 10 players at each position. Its is now that time to vote! I would like to start this up once more considering the NBA season is now over and we can get to this discussion since lots has changed since the start of last season. Please TRY AND VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER AND DON'T BE A HOMER. I will leave the poll open for one day and than we can carry on to the next best player at that position. I will add more players after each round. I have also included the results of those last 2 years so everyone can see how much things have changed...Enjoy.

REMEMBER this is based on who is the best player, not the player who has the potential to be the best.

PF Rankings

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2)
3)
4)
5)
6)
7)
8)
9)
10)


2009 Off-Season PF Rankings

1) Tim Duncan
2) Kevin Garnett
3) Dirk Nowitzki
4) Chris Bosh
5) Amare Stoudemire
6) Pau Gasol
7) Carlos Boozer
8) Antawn Jamison
9) Rashard Lewis
10) David West

2008 Off-Season PF rankings

1) Tim Duncan
2) Kevin Garnett
3) Amare Stoudemire
4) Chris Bosh
5) Dirk Nowitzki
6) Elton Brand
7) Carlos Boozer
8) Pau Gasol
9) Antawn Jamison
10) David West

stejay
08-27-2010, 12:27 PM
I'mma go with Pau Gasol

Swashcuff
08-27-2010, 12:28 PM
Pau Gasol

mikantsass
08-27-2010, 12:28 PM
Timmy DeezNutssss

Mile High Champ
08-27-2010, 12:29 PM
Before anyone asks, I know I could of added more players to the list but took 6 guys who could all get some votes. Boozer, Smith etc.. will be on the list shortly

Swashcuff
08-27-2010, 12:29 PM
This is going to be the most intense of all the rankings. I'm predicting 300 + posts for each of the top 5 before the lock.

Going to be interesting.

Mile High Champ
08-27-2010, 12:31 PM
For me its Dirk. He has been incredible over his entire career and I think its time he gets the number 1 spot. Gasol is deserving as well but he is the 2nd option on a great time. Its Dirk here all the way..

DoJoTheSlasher
08-27-2010, 12:33 PM
Dirk. Has been a top 5 player for 90% of his career. True #1 option and isn't slowing down yet.

Gibby23
08-27-2010, 12:33 PM
Gasol #1 over Dirk. Gasol shoots a higher %. Better post player, Better rebounder, better shot blocker, better defender, and better passer.

Mile High Champ
08-27-2010, 12:38 PM
Gasol #1 over Dirk. Gasol shoots a higher %. Better post player, Better rebounder, better shot blocker, better defender, and better passer.

Not to take anything away from gasol but this is a terrible analysis. Of Course Gasol shoots a higher percentage, he is the second option in the lakers offense, Dirk is the number 1 in Dallas. Who do you think gets the better looks? Plus Gasol's game is around the basket, Dirk can play both.
Not to mention, Dirk had the higher post-season FG%. Everything else you mentioned is opinion? Better passer and defender? it depends in what respect.

Baller1
08-27-2010, 12:38 PM
I want Duncan on my team.

Baller1
08-27-2010, 12:40 PM
Not to take anything away from gasol but this is a terrible analysis. Of Course Gasol shoots a higher percentage, he is the second option in the lakers offense, Dirk is the number 1 in Dallas. Who do you think gets the better looks? Plus Gasol's game is around the basket, Dirk can play both.
Not to mention, Dirk had the higher post-season FG%. Everything else you mentioned is opinion? Better passer and defender? it depends in what respect.

I ****ing hate Pau, but he's probably the best passing big man in the game.

And I agree he's a better defender too. Dirk is below average on defense while Pau is above average, in my opinion.

Swashcuff
08-27-2010, 12:41 PM
Ok this is IMO how the top 3 goes

1a. Pau Gasol
1b. Dirk Nowitzki
1c. Tim Duncan

IMO right now Paul all round game gives him the slight edge over TD/Dirk. Not a knock on either player, because prior to last season I would have said Pau wasn't even top 5 but after watching all of them play quite a bit last season I realised that Pau worth goes waaaayyyyyy beyond the box score (same for TD and Dirk). Gasol's versatility right now though gives him the slighest of edges over Dirk and TD.

DoJoTheSlasher
08-27-2010, 12:43 PM
And for all those saying Gasol is a better rebounder than Dirk or Dirk isn't that great of a rebounder, check his career playoff rebounding stats, they are far better than Gasol's.

ChiSox219
08-27-2010, 12:45 PM
Gasol or Duncan

I went with Gasol because he had a great season and was deserving of the Finals MVP.

Gibby23
08-27-2010, 12:46 PM
Not to take anything away from gasol but this is a terrible analysis. Of Course Gasol shoots a higher percentage, he is the second option in the lakers offense, Dirk is the number 1 in Dallas. Who do you think gets the better looks? Plus Gasol's game is around the basket, Dirk can play both.
Not to mention, Dirk had the higher post-season FG%. Everything else you mentioned is opinion? Better passer and defender? it depends in what respect.

lol, you try and put down my analysis and don't even get it right. Dirk shoots a lower % because he is a jump shooter and shoots more 3's than Pau. Dirk shot a higher % in the playoffs this year because he only played in 1 round, Gasol played all the way through and played against the 1st or 2nd best defensive team in the post season in the Celtics. KG would have had an eaiser time guarding Dirk than he did against Pau.

The rest isn't opinion, Gasol is a better passer based on real numbers.

beasted86
08-27-2010, 12:46 PM
Pau Gasol is the best PF right now. Dirk can't get bounced in the first round and be considered the best. I know it's not all his fault, because he had a monster series (27 PPG, 55% FG, 54% 3PT, 95% FT :speechless: )... but it's not like he has Wade's teammates, he had a very good team.

On another note:

Duncan has played Center for a while now. I don't really care what he considers himself, or what people think he plays, but he is a Center. He defends Centers, is defended by Centers, primarily plays in the low block with his back to the basket because of his knee injuries slowing him down... he's a Center.

Mile High Champ
08-27-2010, 12:47 PM
Knicks fans voting for Amare number 1? I figured this would happen.

Baller1
08-27-2010, 12:48 PM
And for all those saying Gasol is a better rebounder than Dirk or Dirk isn't that great of a rebounder, check his career playoff rebounding stats, they are far better than Gasol's.

Well maybe Dirk should stop rebounding in the playoffs then because it obviously doesn't work.

DoJoTheSlasher
08-27-2010, 12:49 PM
lol, you try and put down my analysis and don't even get it right. Dirk shoots a lower % because he is a jump shooter and shoots more 3's than Pau. Dirk shot a higher % in the playoffs this year because he only played in 1 round, Gasol played all the way through and played against the 1st or 2nd best defensive team in the post season in the Celtics. KG would have had an eaiser time guarding Dirk than he did against Pau.

The rest isn't opinion, Gasol is a better passer based on real numbers.

Is that why Dirk lights up KG every time he plays him?

Mile High Champ
08-27-2010, 12:49 PM
lol, you try and put down my analysis and don't even get it right. Dirk shoots a lower % because he is a jump shooter and shoots more 3's than Pau. Dirk shot a higher % in the playoffs this year because he only played in 1 round, Gasol played all the way through and played against the 1st or 2nd best defensive team in the post season in the Celtics. KG would have had an eaiser time guarding Dirk than he did against Pau.

The rest isn't opinion, Gasol is a better passer based on real numbers.

Your going to use assists as the real numbers to show gasol is a better passer?

Mile High Champ
08-27-2010, 12:50 PM
Duncan has played Center for a while now. I don't really care what he considers himself, or what people think he plays, but he is a Center. He defends Centers, is defended by Centers, primarily plays in the low block with his back to the basket because of his knee injuries slowing him down... he's a Center.


Considering Splitter is the starting center for the spurs this year, I am going to have to disagree... Duncan remains a PF.

mikealike305
08-27-2010, 12:50 PM
im going to say gasol.... but not by alot... i think by next year we'll be saying bosh

Avenged
08-27-2010, 12:51 PM
Gasol is the most complete player to Dirk.

Dirk's defense is a bit underrated but it isn't anything spectacular. Same can be said about Gasol, although he has improved in that facet of the game. Gasol shoots a higher percent and ranks top 10 in PER this past season.

Gasol was also a major contributer to a championship team and arguably should have won Finals MVP to many.

You can't go wrong with either one, Dirk's efficiency in the playoffs was a +29.33 which is very impressive.

Swashcuff
08-27-2010, 12:51 PM
Knicks fans voting for Amare number 1? I figured this would happen.

I am not one to B**** about stuff like this but IMO you should have left Amare, Bosh and KG off the list. I know you wanted to please the masses and please the critics but certain homers may just ruin the voting. No complaining tho bro you do your thing.

Mile High Champ
08-27-2010, 12:54 PM
I am not one to B**** about stuff like this but IMO you should have left Amare, Bosh and KG off the list. I know you wanted to please the masses and please the critics but certain homers may just ruin the voting. No complaining tho bro you do your thing.

Yeah I could of done that but than people complain. I am not worried though, there is no way Amare comes top 3...

Gibby23
08-27-2010, 12:54 PM
Your going to use assists as the real numbers to show gasol is a better passer?

That and the way the lakers run the offense through Gasol in the low post and how he makes the reads and gets the ball to the right spot. If you watched the Lakers with and without Gasol this year, you would notice how much better the ball moves when he is playing compared to when he is not. Just saying, you are the same guy who said Dirk shoots a lower % because he shoots more and didn't mention the fact that he shoots more jumpers and 3 pointers, so I thought you needed a simple example like assists.

Avenged
08-27-2010, 12:54 PM
And for all those saying Gasol is a better rebounder than Dirk or Dirk isn't that great of a rebounder, check his career playoff rebounding stats, they are far better than Gasol's.

We're not talking careers here. We're talking who's the better PF right now.

This past postseason, Gasol averaged 11 rebounds per game. Dirk averaged 8 rebounds per game.

Now granted, Dirk only played 1 round, in which he averaged 8. And Gasol in the 1st round averaged 12.

It's not saying much since they played different teams but it's still a difference.

97NYer
08-27-2010, 12:55 PM
No votes for Bosh?

beasted86
08-27-2010, 12:55 PM
Considering Splitter is the starting center for the spurs this year, I am going to have to disagree... Duncan remains a PF.

And I will have to disagree with you.

Splitter gives up 10-15 lbs. to Duncan, and I'd say Duncan is stronger too. I'd put money on Duncan defending a lot more Centers than Tiago.

DCSportsIsPain
08-27-2010, 12:57 PM
It's only Pau if people are completely ignoring the numbers.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=gasolpa01&y1=2010&p2=nowitdi01&y2=2010&p3=duncati01&y3=2010

stealth33
08-27-2010, 12:57 PM
I went Dirk here. You could argue that Pau was slightly more impressive this season but I look at team role's as well. Being a team's 2nd option takes so much pressure off of you and allows you to be much more efficient.

Pau is a bit more of what I look for from a PF...but Dirk has been fantastic for years. It's easier to criticize the Mavs/Dirk for their playoff performances but Dirk has been one of two constants (Cuban) for the Mavs over their long stretch of very strong seasons.

Mile High Champ
08-27-2010, 12:57 PM
That and the way the lakers run the offense through Gasol in the low post and how he makes the reads and gets the ball to the right spot. If you watched the Lakers with and without Gasol this year, you would notice how much better the ball moves when he is playing compared to when he is not. Just saying, you are the same guy who said Dirk shoots a lower % because he shoots more and didn't mention the fact that he shoots more jumpers and 3 pointers, so I thought you needed a simple example like assists.

:facepalm: In my post if you "READ IT". I stated that gasol's offensive game is focused around the basket while Dirk plays both inside and out. Hence my explanation had two parts..

Mr Moody
08-27-2010, 12:57 PM
lol why is garnett even an option

Joshtd1
08-27-2010, 12:58 PM
I think its either Gasol or Duncan, 1a/1b, can't go wrong with either. I am a huge Dirk fan, but I just think since Gasol and Duncan are primarily post players, I would rather have them on my team. Plus I think they are both better defenders and rebounders too. All 3 are pretty good passers though. I just think Dirk being a perimeter player more so is why I would put him at 3.

Gibby23
08-27-2010, 01:00 PM
It's only Pau if people are completely ignoring the numbers.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=gasolpa01&y1=2010&p2=nowitdi01&y2=2010&p3=duncati01&y3=2010

Or like you, put up career stats for who is the best PF right now. Look at numbers from last year, not the last 10 years. Nice try.

VinceCarter
08-27-2010, 01:00 PM
Duncan easily.

mikealike305
08-27-2010, 01:00 PM
dirk plays almost like a SF... i think gasol is a better PF... but i think next year bosh will be the best

VinceCarter
08-27-2010, 01:02 PM
lol why is garnett even an option

Why is Amar`e even an option? Or even Bosh?

Swashcuff
08-27-2010, 01:02 PM
It's only Pau if people are completely ignoring the numbers.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=gasolpa01&y1=2010&p2=nowitdi01&y2=2010&p3=duncati01&y3=2010

I certainly am NOT ignoring the numbers in no way shape or form.

But the fact of the matter is Pau's impact on the game (not just the stat sheet) is what gives him the slight edge on Dirk and TD IMO. I watched a bunch of Lakers, Spurs and Mavericks games and I was throuoghly impressed with the impact Pau had on the defensive end as far as his passing, screens, understanding of the triangle and playing great within it and overall unselfish player.

He out-basketball really impressed me and really proved why he is so valuable to the Lakers.

If we talking numbers Dirk is will SLAUGHTER him any day of the week but if we talking value there is a good debate there.

Gibby23
08-27-2010, 01:03 PM
:facepalm: In my post if you "READ IT". I stated that gasol's offensive game is focused around the basket while Dirk plays both inside and out. Hence my explanation had two parts..

Dirk doesn't have a good post up game at all. If he did, the would have won the Finals against the Heat. He is a 7 foot jump shooter, the Spurs have used bruce Bowen to guard Dirk in the past because Dirk lacks a post game.

97NYer
08-27-2010, 01:03 PM
Bosh is the best PF in the game....

Swashcuff
08-27-2010, 01:04 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=nowitdi01&p2=gasolpa01

Dirk Slaughters Pau in the box score (even when Pau bacame a Laker) but the box score doesn't tell the whole story. Stats aren't all folks.

Gators123
08-27-2010, 01:05 PM
Gasol

sixers247
08-27-2010, 01:05 PM
Brand

John Walls Era
08-27-2010, 01:06 PM
Pau, Dirk, Bosh, Amare. Duncan isn't even a PF, but if hes included hes 2nd.

Mile High Champ
08-27-2010, 01:06 PM
This is going to be a close poll.

Chacarron
08-27-2010, 01:06 PM
I went with Gasol.

ChiSox219
08-27-2010, 01:07 PM
It's only Pau if people are completely ignoring the numbers.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=gasolpa01&y1=2010&p2=nowitdi01&y2=2010&p3=duncati01&y3=2010

I'll ignore those numbers because what these guys accomplished during the primes of their careers should not determine where they should be ranked right now.

If you want to go back three years, maybe I can see the justification for a larger sample size.

Duncan certainly put up the best numbers last year but he was also playing less minutes which tends to help efficiency. The difference between the three wasn't huge so because Gasol was the best player on the best team he deserves to be the #1 PF.

Jays Claw
08-27-2010, 01:07 PM
It's either Nowitzki or Gasol.

I went with Nowitzki because he's been a monster this last decade and in my opinion, deserves to be #1.

Mile High Champ
08-27-2010, 01:08 PM
Dirk doesn't have a good post up game at all. If he did, the would have won the Finals against the Heat. He is a 7 foot jump shooter, the Spurs have used bruce Bowen to guard Dirk in the past because Dirk lacks a post game.

If you dont think Dirk has a solid post game, I doubt you even saw him play once last season..

Antipod
08-27-2010, 01:08 PM
...

Jays Claw
08-27-2010, 01:08 PM
I'm not surprised to see Knicks fans voting for Stoudemire here. :facepalm:

Gibby23
08-27-2010, 01:12 PM
If you dont think Dirk has a solid post game, I doubt you even saw him play once last season..

It's solid, but not in the class of Duncan and Gasol. Guys like KG, Bosh, Amare, Boozer, Marc Gasol, Kamen, Lopez, Bogut, and Bynum have a better back to the basket game than Dirk.

Antipod
08-27-2010, 01:12 PM
It`s a hard one .... but i go with Pau, because:
1 Duncan in decline
2 Dirk and Dallas blew the playoff
3 KG time is over
4 CB who? )
5 Amar`e ... great post season, but still not ELITE PF
6 In the end, Pau has the ring :)

Mile High Champ
08-27-2010, 01:14 PM
Look at the stats..

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=duncati01&y1=2010&p2=nowitdi01&y2=2010&p3=boshch01&y3=2010&p4=gasolpa01&y4=2010

mikantsass
08-27-2010, 01:15 PM
It`s a hard one .... but i go with Pau, because:
1 Duncan in decline
2 Dirk and Dallas blew the playoff
3 KG time is over
4 CB who? )
5 Amar`e ... great post season, but still not ELITE PF
6 In the end, Pau has the ring :)

Duncan has 4, with 3 Finals MVPs

netsgiantsyanks
08-27-2010, 01:16 PM
Duncan has 4, with 3 Finals MVPs

pwned

Gibby23
08-27-2010, 01:17 PM
Look at the stats..

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=duncati01&y1=2010&p2=nowitdi01&y2=2010&p3=boshch01&y3=2010&p4=gasolpa01&y4=2010

Those look to favor Gasol to me and a case can be made for Bosh and Duncan over Dirk as well.

masalex1205
08-27-2010, 01:18 PM
Duncan...perpetually underrated

masalex1205
08-27-2010, 01:19 PM
It`s a hard one .... but i go with Pau, because:
1 Duncan in decline
2 Dirk and Dallas blew the playoff
3 KG time is over
4 CB who? )
5 Amar`e ... great post season, but still not ELITE PF
6 In the end, Pau has the ring :)

:facepalm:

Cool007
08-27-2010, 01:22 PM
Dirk. Has been a top 5 player for 90% of his career. True #1 option and isn't slowing down yet.

This.

Where was Gasol before joining Kobe??? Never got out of the 1st round and so many times missed the playoffs.

Slimsim
08-27-2010, 01:24 PM
Gasol

ALL_i-Do_is-Win
08-27-2010, 01:26 PM
i am giving it to dirk
his offense is better then anyone in the list rite now
but his defense is bellow everyone but he is the best power foward until gosol gets his stats up a little higher
i think this season gosol passes him
btw shout out to duncan
he is a man beast that never slows down even @ this age he can dominate both side of the court
he is better overall i think still

mikealike305
08-27-2010, 01:27 PM
This.

Where was Gasol before joining Kobe??? Never got out of the 1st round and so many times missed the playoffs.

were not talking about teams were talking about indivdual players... so cant look at wins and rings

thekmp211
08-27-2010, 01:27 PM
i voted pau because i like his skillset and his inside game. dirk is amazing but he will always play outside a little too much for my taste. duncan is a little old and hobbled, but is probably still the best defender out of the three.

tcav701
08-27-2010, 01:31 PM
I really dont like the Lakers.

But Gasol is the most complete PF right now.

knicksfan23
08-27-2010, 01:31 PM
pau or duncan its hard to decide

dimgim
08-27-2010, 01:35 PM
Gasol is a great player and made to look even better because of the team he plays for. But please someone give me an unbiased opinion of what areas his game is better than Bosh's. Can't say defender or rebounder, can't say better shooter or shot blocker, maybe the better passer and that's it as far as I can tell.

Jets012
08-27-2010, 01:44 PM
well this goes down to 3 players in my opinion. Gasol, Duncan, and Dirk. Im going to go with Gasol because right now i believe he is the best passer and rebounder out of the 3. Dirk is a great shooter and duncan is a great player but i got to go with Gasol followed by Duncan then Dirk

Steelers23_06
08-27-2010, 01:47 PM
i think bosh is going to dethrone him for the number one next season though well IF (which as of now is a huge IF because we havent seen anything) miami gels together. look at pau he was 8th before the rings now he's number one its not to crazy to say that bosh could go from 4th last year to #1. when your winning your flaws dont show as much. especially when he has a good mid range shot and playing with 2 of if not the two best players at driving to the hole and know how to both distribute. so they drive big men crash leaving either bosh or the one not driving open. thats why i dont think its as hard for lebron to average triple double as people think because he is going to take the ball up ALOT of the time. and think if he passes the ball to bosh/wade as soon as they shoot he either cops the assist or muscles his body down low and grabs the board and gets his own 2. but aside from miami it has to be pau he's a winner and yea L.A. has kobe but what happened pre-pau...no finals. dirk is good but he has had some REALLY good teams around him but hasnt made it translate i think he is over rated he has played with nash, kidd, stackhouse, terry & harris all proven players. but he cant make it translate. and too bad duncan is getting old he was an amaing player and true gentleman and still is. just not what he used to be. i think amare is going to put up REALLY good numbers this year playing with d'antoni again just this time hes the primary scorer on a not so good team so i think his numbers will be wayyy better i say next year will be either bosh or pau @ #1 the other at #2 STAT at 3 you guys are in love with dirk so he will be 4 and td @5 after that its a blur

PrettyBoyJ
08-27-2010, 01:49 PM
Im surprise Pau got more votes then Dirk..

Steelers23_06
08-27-2010, 01:49 PM
Gasol is a great player and made to look even better because of the team he plays for. But please someone give me an unbiased opinion of what areas his game is better than Bosh's. Can't say defender or rebounder, can't say better shooter or shot blocker, maybe the better passer and that's it as far as I can tell.

winning. bro losers cant be #1. i dont care what team you play for and all that other stuff. why you think marino isnt the #1 qb of all time...bc he has no bling if your stats/skills dont translate to hardware they're uselss

tcav701
08-27-2010, 01:49 PM
I see what you're saying but one of the big 3 has to be the odd man out. Bosh may be a 15 10 guy with declining mins and shots.

Gibby23
08-27-2010, 01:50 PM
i think bosh is going to dethrone him for the number one next season though well IF miami gels together. look at pau he was 8th before the rings now he's number one its not to crazy to say that bosh could go from 4th last year to #1. when your winning your flaws dont show as much. especially when he has a good mid range shot and playing with 2 of if not the two best players at driving to the hole and know how to bnoth distribute. so they drive big men crash leaving either bosh or wade open. thats why i dont think its as hard for lebron to average triple double as people think because he is going to take the ball up ALOT of the time. and think if he passes the ball to bosh/wade as soon as they shoot he either cops the assist or muscles his body down low and grabs the board and gets his own 2. but aside from miami it has to be pau he's a winner and yea L.A. has kobe but what happened pre-pau...no finals. dirk is good but he has had some REALLY good teams around him but hasnt made it translate i think he is over rated he has played with nash, kidd, stackhouse, terry & harris all proven players. but he cant make it translate. and too bad duncan is getting old he was an amaing player and true gentleman and still is. just not what he used to be. i think amare is going to put up REALLY good numbers this year playing with d'antoni again just this time hes the primary scorer on a not so good team so i think his numbers will be wayyy better i say next year will be either bosh or pau @ #1 the other at #2 STAT at 3 you guys are in love with dirk so he will be 4 and td @5 after that its a blur

Hard to read. Space that out a bit.

bbcmillionaire
08-27-2010, 01:52 PM
Timmy greatest pf ever

GMEN4EVER
08-27-2010, 01:55 PM
Not to take anything away from gasol but this is a terrible analysis. Of Course Gasol shoots a higher percentage, he is the second option in the lakers offense, Dirk is the number 1 in Dallas. Who do you think gets the better looks? Plus Gasol's game is around the basket, Dirk can play both.
Not to mention, Dirk had the higher post-season FG%. Everything else you mentioned is opinion? Better passer and defender? it depends in what respect.

If you mean by all accounts possible then yeah. Because Gasol is the best passing big man in the game, and he's definitely a better defender than Dirk. 2 years ago I wouldn't have said the same about Gasol, but he's gotten a lot better on that end of the court.

Steelers23_06
08-27-2010, 01:55 PM
Hard to read. Space that out a bit.

i think bosh is going to dethrone him for the number one next season though well IF (which as of now is a huge IF because we havent seen anything) miami gels together. look at pau he was 8th before the rings now he's number one its not to crazy to say that bosh could go from 4th last year to #1. when your winning your flaws dont show as much. especially when he has a good mid range shot and playing with 2 of if not the two best players at driving to the hole and know how to both distribute. so think about it wade or lebron drive the big man guarding bosh crashes leaving either bosh or the one not driving open. (thats why i dont think its as hard for lebron to average triple double as people think because he is going to take the ball up ALOT of the time. and think if he passes the ball to bosh/wade as soon as they shoot he either cops the assist or muscles his body down low and grabs the board and gets his own 2).

but aside from miami it has to be pau he's a winner and yea L.A. has kobe but what happened pre-pau...no finals. dirk is good but he has had some REALLY good teams around him but hasnt made it translate i think he is over rated he has played with nash, kidd, stackhouse, terry & harris all proven players. but he cant make it translate. and too bad duncan is getting old he was an amaing player and true gentleman and still is. just not what he used to be. i think amare is going to put up REALLY good numbers this year playing with d'antoni again just this time hes the primary scorer on a not so good team so i think his numbers will be wayyy better i say next year will be either bosh or pau @ #1 the other at #2 STAT at 3 you guys are in love with dirk so he will be 4 and td @5 after that its a blur


better?

Raidaz4Life
08-27-2010, 01:57 PM
I got Dirk

THE MTL
08-27-2010, 01:58 PM
Gasol is NOT better than Dirk. Put Gasol on the Mavs and Dirk on Lakers! Mavs are def WORST while the Lakers probi win a championship easier. YEAH THOUGHT SO!

Rivera
08-27-2010, 01:59 PM
wow in a way im kinda surprised (idk y) at all the gasol love not that he isnt a beast or anything its surprising

IMO best offensive PF
Dirk

Best defensive pf
Duncan

best all around pf

gasol

if i needed to win 1 game for my life n i can have only one of the 3 PFs listed
ima go with duncan

this is a hard decision im not gonna pick yet for a lil while longer..........wheres my boy hawkeye with the stats?

Steelers23_06
08-27-2010, 02:02 PM
If you mean by all accounts possible then yeah. Because Gasol is the best passing big man in the game, and he's definitely a better defender than Dirk. 2 years ago I wouldn't have said the same about Gasol, but he's gotten a lot better on that end of the court.

dirk isNT that good at defending pf's players like kg, duncan, bosh, pau...hes not that great of a defender when their use their body and bang with him. hes not bad, but not good either

REALLYYYYY?
08-27-2010, 02:08 PM
Whoa. You forgot Boozer. If Amare is on the list, Boozer should be too.

ChiSox219
08-27-2010, 02:14 PM
Whoa. You forgot Boozer. If Amare is on the list, Boozer should be too.

For sure, but Boozer isn't a regular on Sportscenter so no doubt Amare will be voted higher.

tcav701
08-27-2010, 02:15 PM
Whoa. You forgot Boozer. If Amare is on the list, Boozer should be too.

We arent at #7 yet man

mikantsass
08-27-2010, 02:16 PM
For sure, but Boozer isn't a regular on Sportscenter so no doubt Amare will be voted higher.

Probably because Amare is better than Boozer, and a top 5 PF. Boozer is not a top 5 PF.

But seriously, How is Duncan not winning this poll?

thescore53
08-27-2010, 02:16 PM
i think bosh is going to dethrone him for the number one next season though well IF (which as of now is a huge IF because we havent seen anything) miami gels together. look at pau he was 8th before the rings now he's number one its not to crazy to say that bosh could go from 4th last year to #1. when your winning your flaws dont show as much. especially when he has a good mid range shot and playing with 2 of if not the two best players at driving to the hole and know how to both distribute. so think about it wade or lebron drive the big man guarding bosh crashes leaving either bosh or the one not driving open. (thats why i dont think its as hard for lebron to average triple double as people think because he is going to take the ball up ALOT of the time. and think if he passes the ball to bosh/wade as soon as they shoot he either cops the assist or muscles his body down low and grabs the board and gets his own 2).

but aside from miami it has to be pau he's a winner and yea L.A. has kobe but what happened pre-pau...no finals. dirk is good but he has had some REALLY good teams around him but hasnt made it translate i think he is over rated he has played with nash, kidd, stackhouse, terry & harris all proven players. but he cant make it translate. and too bad duncan is getting old he was an amaing player and true gentleman and still is. just not what he used to be. i think amare is going to put up REALLY good numbers this year playing with d'antoni again just this time hes the primary scorer on a not so good team so i think his numbers will be wayyy better i say next year will be either bosh or pau @ #1 the other at #2 STAT at 3 you guys are in love with dirk so he will be 4 and td @5 after that its a blur


better?

no. first bosh is a third option, gasol is second and first at times. id def dont see bosh putting up 24 and 11 ever again. 15 and 10 yea and thats not best pf numbers. unless miami is willing to give him his 100 iso plays.

and since miami is gonna be the team with a x on their backs and bosh will finnally be playing with the big boys he will get his *** layed down. the physical play will bother bosh. like it did gasol. maybe he'll add muscle like gasol but i dont think he can keep the weight on with his frame

tcav701
08-27-2010, 02:17 PM
no. first bosh is a third option, gasol is second and first at times. id def dont see bosh putting up 24 and 11 ever again. 15 and 10 yea and thats not best pf numbers. unless miami is willing to give him his 100 iso plays

Yea 15 and 10 is what I was thinking. Someone has to be the odd man out in Miami.

save the knicks
08-27-2010, 02:19 PM
Pau the true reason for the Lakers success

ChiSox219
08-27-2010, 02:19 PM
Probably because Amare is better than Boozer, and a top 5 PF. Boozer is not a top 5 PF.

That's simply not true.

Amare is a net negative player, I don't think he should be in the top 10 for PF's,


Boozer is a net positive player, he belongs somewhere around 5-6.

Hustlenomics
08-27-2010, 02:24 PM
lol dirk is really going to lose this?

Steelers23_06
08-27-2010, 02:27 PM
no. first bosh is a third option, gasol is second and first at times. id def dont see bosh putting up 24 and 11 ever again. 15 and 10 yea and thats not best pf numbers. unless miami is willing to give him his 100 iso plays.

and since miami is gonna be the team with a x on their backs and bosh will finnally be playing with the big boys he will get his *** layed down. the physical play will bother bosh. like it did gasol. maybe he'll add muscle like gasol but i dont think he can keep the weight on with his frame

see you dont watch ball because he got huge from the season prior to this past season. but i think his points will dip but his rpg's will sky rocket because since he's not be forced to be the primary scorer he can stay around the paint and search for boards more i c more 16-17 ppg and 12.5 rpg.

thescore53
08-27-2010, 02:29 PM
see you dont watch ball because he got huge from the season prior to this past season. but i think his points will dip but his rpg's will sky rocket because since he's not be forced to be the primary scorer he can stay around the paint and search for boards more i c more 16-17 ppg and 12.5 rpg.

i dont watch ball ? i know more about bosh than u. he did add muscle this season but guess what he lost it. he struggles keepin the weight on.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
08-27-2010, 02:31 PM
Gasol

tcav701
08-27-2010, 02:39 PM
see you dont watch ball because he got huge from the season prior to this past season. but i think his points will dip but his rpg's will sky rocket because since he's not be forced to be the primary scorer he can stay around the paint and search for boards more i c more 16-17 ppg and 12.5 rpg.

I think this post is flawed for many reasons but I'll point out 3.

1. 12.5 rebounds for Bosh? Aren't Heat fans talkin about a triple double avg for James? thats 22.5 rpg for the 2 fowards. NO WAY. Anthony will be the best rebounder when his on the floor and Haslem is a good rebounder as well. I mean we are talking like 55 rpg as a team for the 2 fowards to have 22.5. Do the math man James could have 10 Bosh could have 12 but not both.

2. Bosh wont be able to camp in the paint because he'll have to clear out for James and Wade to drive to the hoop. Bosh will set alot of screens in the half court and the fast break will be a 2 man highlight reel not including Bosh.

3. Hes just the odd man out. when KG went to Boston he took on a different role. Im not directly comparing the 2 because KG's skills were declining but he would have put up much better number offensively if he stayed in MIN. Bosh will be more efficient, but his numbers wont touch those of Gasol, Dirk, Amare. Hell, his number could be worse than Boozer, Duncan, Al Jefferson and David Lee this year.

Heat fans are projecting numbers for these guys that unrealistic considering you also project they will win 70 games. 70 wins means half of those wins will occur with the big 3 on the bench the last 10 mins.

td0tsfinest
08-27-2010, 02:41 PM
#1 PF spot is probably the best the discussion out of the 5 positions. There are several guys you can make an adequate debate as the best PF in the game.

As for me, I'm going with Tim Duncan.

Sadds The Gr8
08-27-2010, 02:42 PM
close but I chose Gasol.

thescore53
08-27-2010, 02:43 PM
dont ever in ur lifetime say i dont watch ball.

Bruno
08-27-2010, 02:43 PM
Dirk-Gasol-Duncan

mikantsass
08-27-2010, 02:44 PM
That's simply not true.

Amare is a net negative player, I don't think he should be in the top 10 for PF's,


Boozer is a net positive player, he belongs somewhere around 5-6.

So Amare is not a top 10 PF but Boozer is top 5. Either you dont watch the NBA or you are just a blatant ignorant Bulls homer. Amare is probably a top 10 player in the league, never mind a top 10 PF. At the same time, when Boozer was injured Millsap played just as well if not better than Boozer.

VinceCarter
08-27-2010, 02:45 PM
Probably because Amare is better than Boozer, and a top 5 PF. Boozer is not a top 5 PF.

But seriously, How is Duncan not winning this poll?

It's PSD where people don't vote for the best player.

Duncan should be winning this easily instead he is ****** neck and neck with Amar`e :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

tcav701
08-27-2010, 02:51 PM
So Amare is not a top 10 PF but Boozer is top 5. Either you dont watch the NBA or you are just a blatant ignorant Bulls homer. Amare is probably a top 10 player in the league, never mind a top 10 PF. At the same time, when Boozer was injured Millsap played just as well if not better than Boozer.

Id love to see what Bull fans would say if they signed Amare rather than Boozer.

And i'll leave it at that.

Ebbs
08-27-2010, 02:54 PM
Wow friggin Lakers homers lol . . . . The Fact Dirk isn't winning is disgrace.

Jewelz0376
08-27-2010, 02:54 PM
I had to go with Dirk.... Dirk is a legit #1, which Pau is a #2...Pau plays a little better D but I still have to go with DIrk

Niro
08-27-2010, 02:55 PM
dirk

Jewelz0376
08-27-2010, 02:55 PM
Wow friggin Lakers homers lol . . . . The Fact Dirk isn't winning is disgrace.

says the guy with a mavs logo in his sig :rolleyes:

cabernetluver
08-27-2010, 02:56 PM
It's PSD where people don't vote for the best player.

Duncan should be winning this easily instead he is ****** neck and neck with Amar`e :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

Duncan at his best, or even a couple of years ago was certainly the best at the time. That was then, this is now. At the end of last season, Gasol was the best actual power forward, with a good argument to be made for Dirk, although, Dirk is not really a pure power forward. He really does not like to play the post.

Ebbs
08-27-2010, 02:57 PM
I had to go with Dirk.... Dirk is a legit #1, which Pau is a #2...Pau plays a little better D but I still have to go with DIrk


says the guy with a mavs logo in his sig :rolleyes:

. . . :facepalm: Yea but I'm not being a homer everyone knows its true. Including you :rolleyes:

alencp3
08-27-2010, 02:58 PM
Dirk

97NYer
08-27-2010, 02:58 PM
On this I would go.

Bosh
Amar'e
Dirk
Duncan
Pau

VinceCarter
08-27-2010, 02:58 PM
So Amare is not a top 10 PF but Boozer is top 5. Either you dont watch the NBA or you are just a blatant ignorant Bulls homer. Amare is probably a top 10 player in the league, never mind a top 10 PF. At the same time, when Boozer was injured Millsap played just as well if not better than Boozer.

Amare is no way in hell a top 10 player in the league.

Kobe
LeBron
Wade
Durant
CP3
Melo
Dwight
Dirk
Roy
Duncan
Pau
Deron
Bosh

That's 13 players definitely better than Amar`e. :eyebrow:

Hustlenomics
08-27-2010, 02:58 PM
wow friggin lakers homers lol . . . . The fact dirk isn't winning is disgrace.

+1

JordansBulls
08-27-2010, 02:59 PM
Why is Bosh and Garnett on this poll but not Boozer?

Anyway I voted for Gasol. Led his team in Win Shares and PER last season and led the entire league in the playoffs in Win Shares last year.

tcav701
08-27-2010, 02:59 PM
On this I would go.

Bosh
Amar'e
Dirk
Duncan
Pau

Flip that list around lol

mikantsass
08-27-2010, 03:02 PM
Amare is no way in hell a top 10 player in the league.

Kobe
LeBron
Wade
Durant
CP3
Melo
Dwight
Dirk
Roy
Duncan
Pau
Deron
Bosh

That's 13 players definitely better than Amar`e. :eyebrow:

Ok, so Amare is top 15ish, not top 10ish. My point was that he is in the Elite class of the NBA. The kid I was responding to said Amare wasnt a top 10 PF, yet Boozer was a top 5 PF.

Avenged
08-27-2010, 03:02 PM
Fact is winning plays a major role in ranking players individually as it's been evident throughout all of these polls.

Next year, expect Bosh to make a jump as well.

Jewelz0376
08-27-2010, 03:03 PM
. . . :facepalm: Yea but I'm not being a homer everyone knows its true. Including you :rolleyes:

Yea i think Dirk is better but he isn't so much better than Pau that they must be "homers" if they're voting for Pau.. its very arguable that Pau is better than Dirk, but obviously you don't think so...so your being just as much of a homer

Hustlenomics
08-27-2010, 03:04 PM
Why is Bosh and Garnett on this poll but not Boozer?

Anyway I voted for Gasol. Led his team in Win Shares and PER last season and led the entire league in the playoffs in Win Shares last year.
probably because they are both better than Boozer

Ebbs
08-27-2010, 03:04 PM
Why is Bosh and Garnett on this poll but not Boozer?

Anyway I voted for Gasol. Led his team in Win Shares and PER last season and led the entire league in the playoffs in Win Shares last year.

No Idea I would take Boozer over KG or Stat.

Ughh what does Dirk have to do to prove he's the better player. He took his team to the Finals being the only star. He won MVP, he is virtually unguardable.

Illinirob83
08-27-2010, 03:04 PM
Dirk should win this but not by much. Gasol has become an elite player in LA. Kobe has helped him reach that level with more understanding of basketball, work ethic. Gasol has become a very smart player helped very much so by Kobe.

Hawkeye15
08-27-2010, 03:05 PM
Dirk. I honestly think Gasol was more responsible for the Lakers success than Kobe this year, but that being said, Dirk is still the better offensive player pretty easily, and Gasol is better defender by a bit. So its a tough call between Dirk, Duncan and Gasol here.
Dirk for me

Ebbs
08-27-2010, 03:06 PM
Yea i think Dirk is better but he isn't so much better than Pau that they must be "homers" if they're voting for Pau.. its very arguable that Pau is better than Dirk, but obviously you don't think so...so your being just as much of a homer

Before Gasol went and joined a top 2 player in the NBA there was 0 discussion on who was better. I like Pau I do and he is easily #2 but Dirk has just accomplished so much more on his own.

thekmp211
08-27-2010, 03:06 PM
. . . :facepalm: Yea but I'm not being a homer everyone knows its true. Including you :rolleyes:

aaaaand that's precisely the problem. pau is every bit as worthy as dirk, there are three guys that deserve consideration. duncan is the one getting screwed right now, if anyone. making be all end all statements like that makes it seem like you aren't willing to discuss an opposing opinion. it makes the whole idea of a "discussion board" kind of silly.

Jewelz0376
08-27-2010, 03:07 PM
Before Gasol went and joined a top 2 player in the NBA there was 0 discussion on who was better. I like Pau I do and he is easily #2 but Dirk has just accomplished so much more on his own.

this is a poll on the best player RIGHT NOW.... what happened 2 yrs ago or what either player has done before the last season is irrelevant to the question being asked in the poll

Illinirob83
08-27-2010, 03:08 PM
Could Gasol be the best player of a team that gets the #2 seed in the West? I don't think so...Dirk can.

Ebbs
08-27-2010, 03:09 PM
this is a poll on the best player RIGHT NOW.... what happened 2 yrs ago or what either player has done before the last season is irrelevant to the question being asked in the poll

ugggh Im willing to debate this but thats garbage reasoning.

Mile High Champ
08-27-2010, 03:10 PM
Dirk. I honestly think Gasol was more responsible for the Lakers success than Kobe this year, but that being said, Dirk is still the better offensive player pretty easily, and Gasol is better defender by a bit. So its a tough call between Dirk, Duncan and Gasol here.
Dirk for me

:clap: This is what I have been saying. Laker fans don't want to hear it.

tcav701
08-27-2010, 03:12 PM
Dirk is easily the best offensive player on this list. But to be the best i think you have to be able to defend especially at this postition. IMO, PF is the single position that defense matters most.

I dont understand why people are outraged Dirk isnt winning this poll. If we was the best hand down, we wouldn't need a poll lol.

tredigs
08-27-2010, 03:12 PM
Duncan, and obviously it's close. But at this point, he has not regressed nearly enough to warrant a drop as the #1 PF in the game. His overall game just can't be touched - the guy does everything at an elite level. Everything.

1a: Duncan
1b: Dirk
1c: Gasol

4: Bosh
5: Amare

NYYCowboys
08-27-2010, 03:13 PM
This poll is the biggest joke. There is no way in hell Gasol is even 3rd because Amare, Bosh and Dirk are all better than he is. Just another poll where all the Lakers homers come out and vote.

Jewelz0376
08-27-2010, 03:14 PM
ugggh Im willing to debate this but thats garbage reasoning.

Debate what???..there is nothing to debate...the poll is based only on last season..

Rivera
08-27-2010, 03:15 PM
gasol has a better true shooting percentage efficent field goal percentage and has the same block percentage than dirk and duncan and a better win share per 48 minutes but duncan has the best win shares overall

gasol and dirk are even in PER suprisingly duncan has a better PER than both

its close its real close but gasol is more efficent on offense and still bothers shots on D

i was gonna choose dirk but i looked at the #'s and i have to go with pau


was gonna go

dirk
duncan
gasol

now i am gonna go

gasol
duncan
dirk

tcav701
08-27-2010, 03:15 PM
This poll is the biggest joke. There is no way in hell Gasol is even 3rd because Amare, Bosh and Dirk are all better than he is. Just another poll where all the Lakers homers come out and vote.

I dont see how you can call people homers when you have Amare ahead of Duncan and Gasol.

Hustlenomics
08-27-2010, 03:17 PM
Dirk is easily the best offensive player on this list. But to be the best i think you have to be able to defend especially at this postition. IMO, PF is the single position that defense matters most.

I dont understand why people are outraged Dirk isnt winning this poll. If we was the best hand down, we wouldn't need a poll lol.

what?! gasol is a horrible defender lmao since when was he a great defender now?:confused: Garnett was going to WORK on gasol and amare was literally dunking all over gasol this year

NYYCowboys
08-27-2010, 03:18 PM
I dont see how you can call people homers when you have Amare ahead of Duncan and Gasol.

Because Amare is better than both.

Hustlenomics
08-27-2010, 03:18 PM
Duncan, and obviously it's close. But at this point, he has not regressed nearly enough to warrant a drop as the #1 PF in the game. His overall game just can't be touched - the guy does everything at an elite level. Everything.

1a: Duncan
1b: Dirk
1c: Gasol

4: Bosh
5: Amare

his stats been slipping since 06-07

Ebbs
08-27-2010, 03:18 PM
Dirk is easily the best offensive player on this list. But to be the best i think you have to be able to defend especially at this postition. IMO, PF is the single position that defense matters most.

I dont understand why people are outraged Dirk isnt winning this poll. If we was the best hand down, we wouldn't need a poll lol.

Dirk is a much better defender then given credit for. Duncan is the best defender of the bunc no doubt. But Pau and Dirk is closer then people realize.

Pau Gasol career DRTG: 105
Tim Duncan career DRTG: 95
Dirk Nowitzki career DRTG: 103. . .

Raidaz4Life
08-27-2010, 03:21 PM
Wow friggin Lakers homers lol . . . . The Fact Dirk isn't winning is disgrace.

Agreed, this is easily Dirk. People who say Gasol are Laker homers, people who say Duncan are stuck in the past.

69centers
08-27-2010, 03:21 PM
Sorry, just can't let KG come out with zero votes. He's not that far below everyone else on the list. I would have to say Bosh as my non-homer vote. I'd take him over Gasol if I were building a team and had to choose from the 2.

tcav701
08-27-2010, 03:22 PM
what?! gasol is a horrible defender lmao since when was he a great defender now?:confused: Garnett was going to WORK on gasol and amare was literally dunking all over gasol this year

I didnt say gasol was a great defender.

JordansBulls
08-27-2010, 03:24 PM
probably because they are both better than Boozer

Garnett no way, not any more and Amare or Bosh are debateable.

Cano4prez
08-27-2010, 03:25 PM
This poll is the biggest joke. There is no way in hell Gasol is even 3rd because Amare, Bosh and Dirk are all better than he is. Just another poll where all the Lakers homers come out and vote.

Pau >>>>>>>>> Amare. Why be a homer and then complain about other homers?

thescore53
08-27-2010, 03:25 PM
Because Amare is better than both.

better than them in what ? water polo

DoJoTheSlasher
08-27-2010, 03:26 PM
Dirk is the best PF today no doubt in my mind. I'm past those arguments.

New arguments. Anyone who says Amare Stoudemire or even Chris Bosh is better than Pau Gasol and Tim Duncan, please, go to sleep for a few days and then wake up and see if you are in the real world.

Fmaranesi
08-27-2010, 03:27 PM
Garnett no way, not any more and Amare or Bosh are debateable.

Garnett can still lockdown boozer and both Amare and Bosh are better then Booz

Hustlenomics
08-27-2010, 03:28 PM
Garnett no way, not any more and Amare or Bosh are debateable.

I'd take Garnett over Boozer 7 days of the week over undersized boozer who can't defend like garnett or shoot like him

tcav701
08-27-2010, 03:28 PM
Dirk is the best PF today no doubt in my mind. I'm past those arguments.

New arguments. Anyone who says Amare Stoudemire or even Chris Bosh is better than Pau Gasol and Tim Duncan, please, go to sleep for a few days and then wake up and see if you are in the real world.

:clap:

VinceCarter
08-27-2010, 03:29 PM
Duncan, and obviously it's close. But at this point, he has not regressed nearly enough to warrant a drop as the #1 PF in the game. His overall game just can't be touched - the guy does everything at an elite level. Everything.

1a: Duncan
1b: Dirk
1c: Gasol

4: Bosh
5: Amare

:clap: My exact top 5 ranking and everything you said is correct :hi5:

Illinirob83
08-27-2010, 03:30 PM
Garnett can still lockdown boozer and both Amare and Bosh are better then Booz

What? Garnett is not near as good defender as he once was, and is a borderline horrible help defender now due to age, and just wear and tear. Garnett is not better than Boozer at this point. Boozer is a better consistent scorer, rebounder, and improved his defense last year. Garnett was an elite defender, now he is teetering on average to below average, odds are he will continue getting worse at defending as he continues to get older.

NYYCowboys
08-27-2010, 03:31 PM
Pau >>>>>>>>> Amare. Why be a homer and then complain about other homers?

How do you justify that what stats?

Hustlenomics
08-27-2010, 03:32 PM
What? Garnett is not near as good defender as he once was, and is a borderline horrible help defender now due to age, and just wear and tear. Garnett is not better than Boozer at this point. Boozer is a better consistent scorer, rebounder, and improved his defense last year. Garnett was an elite defender, now he is teetering on average to below average, odds are he will continue getting worse at defending as he continues to get older.

ask rashard lewis and jamison about that ;)

tcav701
08-27-2010, 03:32 PM
What? Garnett is not near as good defender as he once was, and is a borderline horrible help defender now due to age, and just wear and tear. Garnett is not better than Boozer at this point. Boozer is a better consistent scorer, rebounder, and improved his defense last year. Garnett was an elite defender, now he is teetering on average to below average, odds are he will continue getting worse at defending as he continues to get older.

Every coach and player in the NBA disagrees with you.

VinceCarter
08-27-2010, 03:32 PM
Pau >>>>>>>>> Amare. Why be a homer and then complain about other homers?

:clap:

tredigs
08-27-2010, 03:33 PM
his stats been slipping since 06-07

Not that much; his minutes have gone down to save him for the post-season, but his stats/game is pretty much the same it's always been (lost some quickness, but he was enough better than everyone else throughout his career that I think he's still slightly better). He still posts a strong double double every night and plays better D than both Dirk and Pau.

You really can't go wrong with any 3 of these dudes. There's probably no right answer - each player is perfect for a different system.

tcav701
08-27-2010, 03:33 PM
How do you justify that what stats?

The only top 3 attribute Amare has for his position is his dunking.

daleja424
08-27-2010, 03:34 PM
statistically it is bosh...

DoJoTheSlasher
08-27-2010, 03:35 PM
How do you justify that what stats?

How do you justify that Kobe is better than Monta Ellis? Similar stats??

Gasol is a better player because he can win a game, he is a far better defender than Amare, he can do all the little things like an offensive rebound here and there, setting screens, rolling, and IQ is so much higher.

tredigs
08-27-2010, 03:36 PM
statistically it is bosh...

Which stats? Not the defensive ones that you can find on Synergy I'm sure...

He was also The Man in Toronto; obviously his numbers won't reach those levels again for the rest of his career.

thescore53
08-27-2010, 03:38 PM
statistically it is bosh...

rationally its not

VinceCarter
08-27-2010, 03:39 PM
Which stats? Not the defensive ones that you can find on Synergy I'm sure...

He was also The Man in Toronto; obviously his numbers won't reach those levels again for the rest of his career.

2 for 2 with the great posts.

YankeesNets11
08-27-2010, 03:39 PM
Really tough, but I'm going with Nowitski. Can't go wrong with Duncan and Gasol though.

Illinirob83
08-27-2010, 03:40 PM
Every coach and player in the NBA disagrees with you.

you take a poll? He isn't near as good of defender as he once was, and is borderline bad help defender.

And bringing up Rasard Lewis who is a perimeter chucker as evidence is nonsense.

NYYCowboys
08-27-2010, 03:41 PM
How do you justify that Kobe is better than Monta Ellis? Similar stats??

Gasol is a better player because he can win a game, he is a far better defender than Amare, he can do all the little things like an offensive rebound here and there, setting screens, rolling, and IQ is so much higher.

Oh ok so you gave them both an IQ test and found out Gasol's is higher? Gasol is a better defender but even he isn't a very good defender himself, and Amare torched him in the western conference finals. Amare also had a higher TS% last year, better FG% and scored more points.

Da Knicks
08-27-2010, 03:44 PM
Gotta go with the finals "real" mvp Gasol.

Storch
08-27-2010, 03:45 PM
Best offense: Dirk
Best defense: Duncan

Best overall: Gasol. So he gets my vote.

NYYCowboys
08-27-2010, 03:45 PM
BTW I think Dirk is the best PF followed by Bosh, not saying Amare is the best.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
08-27-2010, 03:45 PM
dirk the clerk

macc
08-27-2010, 03:45 PM
I'm really suprised Gasol is getting this much love. Yes he's extrememly talented, but he is about the same player he was in Memphis and yet he didn't get much love there. Now that he's in the spot light people look at him as the best pf in the league.

I still give the nod to Dirk. He's been to the finals, he has his MVP. He has alot of above average players on his team but no true #2 guy, yet he has success every year. Plus he is just clutch. I'm suprised people put Gasol in front of him.

tcav701
08-27-2010, 03:48 PM
you take a poll? He isn't near as good of defender as he once was, and is borderline bad help defender.

And bringing up Rasard Lewis who is a perimeter chucker as evidence is nonsense.

He was DPOY in 08 and now hes a below average defender?

he's obviously lost a step but KG was a pretty damn good defender last year. I bet if he pkayed for the Bulls you'd have nothing but goo to say about him.

Avenged
08-27-2010, 03:49 PM
Okay so most of us agree it's Gasol, Dirk, or Duncan as the #1. There really is no clear cut #1. It really depends on what your team needs and how much your team is winning.

Just because someone chooses Gasol does not mean their being homers, he definitely has a case for himself. Same can be said about Dirk and Duncan.

Personally, I voted for Gasol although I have made a case for Dirk in the past. Very similar, but recent success due to his contributions did it for me.

JordansBulls
08-27-2010, 03:50 PM
Every coach and player in the NBA disagrees with you.

This isn't 2008

DoJoTheSlasher
08-27-2010, 03:53 PM
Oh ok so you gave them both an IQ test and found out Gasol's is higher? Gasol is a better defender but even he isn't a very good defender himself, and Amare torched him in the western conference finals. Amare also had a higher TS% last year, better FG% and scored more points.

23 pts
18 pts
42 pts
21 pts
19 pts
27 pts

when you are the main offensive focus and you are never double teamed, this isn't exactly torching.

macc
08-27-2010, 03:55 PM
I pulled up Gasols stats from when he was in Memphis.

05-06 20.4 ppg 8.9 rpg 4.6 apg with Memphis
06-07 20.8 ppg 9.8 rpg 3.4 apg with Memphis

08-09 18.9 ppg 9.6 rpg 3.5 apg with LA
09-10 18.3 ppg 11.3rpg 3.4 apg with LA


What makes me laugh about this is his stats are pretty much the same today as they were 4 years ago, yet 4 years ago Gasol was barely considered a top 5-10 pf. Now people consider him the best pf in the game, though he's basically the same player he's been his entire career. Funny how that works.

samevans7
08-27-2010, 03:55 PM
im not being a homer, and to prove: Garnett is last on this list, and im a C's fan

Gasol is so overrated, its getting annoying. Gasol has the best player in the NBA on his team, of course he will be more open. Dallas always makes the playoffs, as a higher ranked seed, and Dirk is almost their whole team.

The way I think of valuing it, is putting each player on a team, and comparing them.

If you put the PFs on the Oklahoma City Thunder, the rankings would go:

Duncan, Amare, Dirk, Bosh, Gasol, Garnett

Gasol is too much overrated; i hate it

Hustlenomics
08-27-2010, 03:56 PM
23 pts
18 pts
42 pts
21 pts
19 pts
27 pts

when you are the main offensive focus and you are never double teamed, this isn't exactly torching.

lol @ averaging 25 ppg on 53 % shooting and constantly dunking on gasol not torching him

DoJoTheSlasher
08-27-2010, 04:00 PM
lol @ averaging 25 ppg on 53 % shooting and constantly dunking on gasol not torching him

Constantly dunking on Gasol? You do realize not one guy guards the same player a whole game? Amare had one game where he thought, oh its the playoffs maybe I will do something in that 42 point game. Other games he was getting his regular stats.

If anything, Lamar Odom absolutely ABUSED Amare whenever they defender each other. Odom would dunk on him, rebound over him, score easily on him, block his shot, steal.

Kenyon Martin is a much better defender than Gasol. Dirk averaged about 36 ppg in the Denver series last year. THAT is torching a defender.

25 ppg on incinsistent stats is not torching a defender.

The Raven
08-27-2010, 04:01 PM
Senor Pau

Avenged
08-27-2010, 04:02 PM
I pulled up Gasols stats from when he was in Memphis.

05-06 20.4 ppg 8.9 rpg 4.6 apg with Memphis
06-07 20.8 ppg 9.8 rpg 3.4 apg with Memphis

08-09 18.9 ppg 9.6 rpg 3.5 apg with LA
09-10 18.3 ppg 11.3rpg 3.4 apg with LA


What makes me laugh about this is his stats are pretty much the same today as they were 4 years ago, yet 4 years ago Gasol was barely considered a top 5-10 pf. Now people consider him the best pf in the game, though he's basically the same player he's been his entire career. Funny how that works.

What's even more funny is that those stats you provided are similar to Dirks, and actually favor Gasol aside from ppg.

tcav701
08-27-2010, 04:02 PM
Western Confernce Finals.

Amare: 25p 6rpg .5 apg
Gasol: 19.7ppg 7.2rpg 3.7apg

Gasol won in rebound and passing.
Amare scored more but he is the #1 option.

DoJoTheSlasher
08-27-2010, 04:03 PM
What's even more funny is that those stats you provided are similar to Dirks, and actually favor Gasol aside from ppg.

Dirk was averaging close to 25-26 ppg for a 7-8 year stretch, and his rebounding in that stretch was also better than Gasol's.

Hustlenomics
08-27-2010, 04:04 PM
Constantly dunking on Gasol? You do realize not one guy guards the same player a whole game? Amare had one game where he thought, oh its the playoffs maybe I will do something in that 42 point game. Other games he was getting his regular stats.

If anything, Lamar Odom absolutely ABUSED Amare whenever they defender each other. Odom would dunk on him, rebound over him, score easily on him, block his shot, steal.

Kenyon Martin is a much better defender than Gasol. Dirk averaged about 36 ppg in the Denver series last year. THAT is torching a defender.

25 ppg on incinsistent stats is not torching a defender.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwXLzjdTO_c lol @ gasol getting pissed on in that game
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smDE1t156UQ&feature=related another link of amare having his way and gasol being such a bad defender

Illinirob83
08-27-2010, 04:06 PM
He was DPOY in 08 and now hes a below average defender?

he's obviously lost a step but KG was a pretty damn good defender last year. I bet if he pkayed for the Bulls you'd have nothing but goo to say about him.

Yes he is becoming below average, not fully there yet but on his way. Three more years on those knees, tons of basketball played since '08, and we are now entering '11. He isn't as quick, and not near as effective offensively either. The biggest problem with this board is that every debate ends with...."if he played for the team you root for you wouldn't say this"..nah nah na na na, like you are 10 years old. It is pathetic.

My PF rankings...(to prove my unbias) even though I shouldn't have to.

1. Dirk
2. Gasol
3. Duncan
4. Bosh
5. Amare
6. Boozer
7. Josh Smith
8. Zach Randoph
9. KG

I am not drinking the Bulls kool-aid where I put Boozer any higher than 6th right now, that is where he is and should be RIGHT NOW. I think there is a distinct six and KG, going into 2011, due to wear and tear, age is not in it.

DoJoTheSlasher
08-27-2010, 04:06 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwXLzjdTO_c lol @ gasol getting pissed on in that game
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smDE1t156UQ&feature=related another link of amare having his way and gasol being such a bad defender

Why didn't he do that in any of the other 5 games?

cmellofan15
08-27-2010, 04:11 PM
Yes he is becoming below average, not fully there yet but on his way. Three more years on those knees, tons of basketball played since '08, and we are now entering '11. He isn't as quick, and not near as effective offensively either. The biggest problem with this board is that every debate ends with...."if he played for the team you root for you wouldn't say this"..nah nah na na na, like you are 10 years old. It is pathetic.

My PF rankings...(to prove my unbias) even though I shouldn't have to.

1. Dirk
2. Gasol
3. Duncan
4. Bosh
5. Amare
6. Boozer
7. Josh Smith
8. Zach Randoph
9. KG

I am not drinking the Bulls kool-aid where I put Boozer any higher than 6th right now, that is where he is and should be RIGHT NOW. I think there is a distinct six and KG, going into 2011, due to wear and tear, age is not in it.

srsly?

as much as I hate the Lakers I'm still going Pau

unleashthebeast
08-27-2010, 04:12 PM
imo its up to duncan or dirk for 1. i cant believe pau is in this discussion right now cuz hes not the #1 guy on his team. i would go dirk

Hustlenomics
08-27-2010, 04:13 PM
Why didn't he do that in any of the other 5 games?

he averaged 25 ppg of course he was doing that in the other games

tcav701
08-27-2010, 04:16 PM
he averaged 25 ppg of course he was doing that in the other games

and Gasol had 19.7ppg as the #2 option while gettin 3.5apg and beating him on the boards.

Avenged
08-27-2010, 04:17 PM
Dirk was averaging close to 25-26 ppg for a 7-8 year stretch, and his rebounding in that stretch was also better than Gasol's.

In the last 5 years starting from 05-06 and up, Dirk put up in rebounds:

9.0
8.9
8.6
8.4
7.7

Gasol was averaging:

8.9
9.8
8.8 (mem)
7.8 (lal)
9.6
11.3

Gasol has averaged about 4 more seasons in the past 5 years with more rebounds per game. He averaged 8.8 in Memphis, was traded that year and put up 7.8 in the Lakers.

Since you're comparing careers, Gasol averages 9 rebounds per game throughout his career and Dirk averages 8.5. Again, very similar so don't go throwing stuff out there just to make it seem like Dirk is way beyond Gasol.

Hustlenomics
08-27-2010, 04:19 PM
and Gasol had 19.7ppg as the #2 option while gettin 3.5apg and beating him on the boards.

obv amare's not going to have as much assists cause it's nash or someone else feeding him plus he doesn't need to pass it like that when he can continue to torch a bad defender such as Gasol

tcav701
08-27-2010, 04:24 PM
obv amare's not going to have as much assists cause it's nash or someone else feeding him plus he doesn't need to pass it like that when he can continue to torch a bad defender such as Gasol

I know and as bad a defender as Gasol is, Amare is worse.

Hawkeye15
08-27-2010, 04:24 PM
Okay so most of us agree it's Gasol, Dirk, or Duncan as the #1. There really is no clear cut #1. It really depends on what your team needs and how much your team is winning.

Just because someone chooses Gasol does not mean their being homers, he definitely has a case for himself. Same can be said about Dirk and Duncan.

Personally, I voted for Gasol although I have made a case for Dirk in the past. Very similar, but recent success due to his contributions did it for me.

but you should know, if an LA fans says Gasol, he will get hit with the "homer" level, unless he can make a case that can't be denied as rational, which most are not capable of unfortunately.
As I stated in my opinion, statistically, its so close at this point between Duncan, Gasol, and Dirk, that its a tough call. I picked Dirk, due to his offensive seperation between himself and the other two. But he is also the worst defender of the three, not by much, but he is.
So as long as a poster makes a rational case for thier pick, and we don't see KG or Boozer slip in here, there is no reason for bashing the selection

Hustlenomics
08-27-2010, 04:27 PM
I know and as bad a defender as Gasol is, Amare is worse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmTHqFwUmzo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVNxDjTbH8w&feature=related

cowboyz180
08-27-2010, 04:29 PM
Dirk!! He is much better than Pau Gasol!! How is Pau even being mentioned as a #1?

Avenged
08-27-2010, 04:29 PM
but you should know, if an LA fans says Gasol, he will get hit with the "homer" level, unless he can make a case that can't be denied as rational, which most are not capable of unfortunately.
As I stated in my opinion, statistically, its so close at this point between Duncan, Gasol, and Dirk, that its a tough call. I picked Dirk, due to his offensive seperation between himself and the other two. But he is also the worst defender of the three, not by much, but he is.
So as long as a poster makes a rational case for thier pick, and we don't see KG or Boozer slip in here, there is no reason for bashing the selection

Pretty much.

Although I have seen Amare, KG, and Boozer slip up in this conversation :laugh2:

Anyways, the main argument being thrown are careers, Dirk/Gasol. But this poll is intended about right now, which they are all similar.

If careers were the case, Duncan would be the clear cut #1.

tcav701
08-27-2010, 04:29 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmTHqFwUmzo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVNxDjTbH8w&feature=related

now i get it, ur a highlight fan. It all makes sense to me now.

Hustlenomics
08-27-2010, 04:31 PM
now i get it, ur a highlight fan. It all makes sense to me now.

just showing you examples lol @ there being something wrong with showing clips of them actually playing

Hawkeye15
08-27-2010, 04:37 PM
Pretty much.

Although I have seen Amare, KG, and Boozer slip up in this conversation :laugh2:

Anyways, the main argument being thrown are careers, Dirk/Gasol. But this poll is intended about right now, which they are all similar.

If careers were the case, Duncan would be the clear cut #1.

well, that is what happens here. Career achievement awards. Duncan and KG would be crapping on everyone if that were the case. But we are discussing who is better NOW. And going into next season, give me Gasol or Dirk, can't go wrong with either

thescore53
08-27-2010, 04:38 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmTHqFwUmzo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVNxDjTbH8w&feature=related

omg bosh is the dpoy !!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cOgFpjarJI&p=BE687B1A0517F83F&playnext=1&index=51

TheWatcher34
08-27-2010, 04:41 PM
Not to take anything away from gasol but this is a terrible analysis. Of Course Gasol shoots a higher percentage, he is the second option in the lakers offense, Dirk is the number 1 in Dallas. Who do you think gets the better looks? Plus Gasol's game is around the basket, Dirk can play both.
Not to mention, Dirk had the higher post-season FG%. Everything else you mentioned is opinion? Better passer and defender? it depends in what respect.

great post!

to some extent Pau GAsol is overrated :hide:...Dirk has been carrying his team for alamost a decade..successfully (eventhough he has no ring..but whatever.)
what could Pau do without Kobe, Odom, Bynum ???
we will never know.
one thing is for sure: two time champion Pau GAsol is NOT the best power forward of the NBA.

tcav701
08-27-2010, 04:42 PM
omg bosh is the dpoy !!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cOgFpjarJI&p=BE687B1A0517F83F&playnext=1&index=51

That happens alot with Bosh and Amare.

Their man beats them on a post move and they get praise for making a block after they get beat.

Obv the block is good and takes skill but it doesnt change the fact they got beat.

RocketPower2010
08-27-2010, 04:43 PM
Knicks fans vote for Amare
Heat fans vote for Bosh
Mavs fans vote for Dirk
Laker fans vote for Gasol
Fans whose own PFs arn't worth mentioning vote for Dirk or Gasol, coin flip really. Two different type of players that you really can't compare, even if they play the same position.

Duncan is a center, there are too few good centers to rank anyway so why not put him there.

greek miami hea
08-27-2010, 04:44 PM
i will go with bosh

Hustlenomics
08-27-2010, 04:45 PM
omg bosh is the dpoy !!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cOgFpjarJI&p=BE687B1A0517F83F&playnext=1&index=51

lmfaoooooo "oh the beast!" but dwight was DPOY :cool:

69centers
08-27-2010, 04:46 PM
What? Garnett is not near as good defender as he once was, and is a borderline horrible help defender now due to age, and just wear and tear. Garnett is not better than Boozer at this point. Boozer is a better consistent scorer, rebounder, and improved his defense last year. Garnett was an elite defender, now he is teetering on average to below average, odds are he will continue getting worse at defending as he continues to get older.

He had knee surgery in July of 2009 and his doctors told him he wouldn't be 100% until 1 year from that point, which was July of 2010, when they were alread deep in the playoffs. He went the whole season far less than 100% and cannot be judged on that. You need to wait and see this season before calling him "teetering on average to below average".

Jays Claw
08-27-2010, 04:46 PM
I will go with Bosh.

Would you seriously take Bosh over Gasol or Nowitzki? :facepalm:

Avenged
08-27-2010, 04:46 PM
well, that is what happens here. Career achievement awards. Duncan and KG would be crapping on everyone if that were the case. But we are discussing who is better NOW. And going into next season, give me Gasol or Dirk, can't go wrong with either

Yep, right on. This past season were very close between Gasol, Dirk, and Duncan, and although Duncan has a better stat line he did play less minutes which alters efficiency. Duncan is the better defender, Dirk is the better offensive player and Gasol is better overall (like other people have mentioned).

Toss a coin, really. But to say whoever picks Gasol are homers is just foolish.

beasted86
08-27-2010, 04:46 PM
Pau can't touch Dirk all around offensively. Pau also can't touch Dirk leadership wise, cause he couldn't even win one playoff game as the #1. Pau isn't much of a better rebounder than Dirk either, and isn't significantly better at passing.

The only reason I voted for Pau is because Dirk choked this past season and let his team get bounced without even pushing it to game 7, and Pau helped the Lakers win the championship. Championships & playoff success weigh heavily.

But to hear the ridiculous case some LA fans are trying to make it's making me regret my vote.

tcav701
08-27-2010, 04:46 PM
Knicks fans vote for Amare
Heat fans vote for Bosh
Mavs fans vote for Dirk
Laker fans vote for Gasol
Fans whose own PFs arn't worth mentioning vote for Dirk or Gasol, coin flip really. Two different type of players that you really can't compare, even if they play the same position.

Duncan is a center, there are too few good centers to rank anyway so why not put him there.

Yes i wish everyone would agree to not vote for anyone that plays on their team. If you think your guy belongs in the current spot, just don't vote that round. Of course people won't do this but it would give us a much more accurate list from fans who dont root for that player.

thescore53
08-27-2010, 04:47 PM
i will go with bosh

ofcourse you would - -

thescore53
08-27-2010, 04:48 PM
Would you seriously take Bosh over Gasol or Nowitzki? :facepalm:

dont ask him or he'll reply......... u mad ?

beasted86
08-27-2010, 04:50 PM
That happens alot with Bosh and Amare.

Their man beats them on a post move and they get praise for making a block after they get beat.

Obv the block is good and takes skill but it doesnt change the fact they got beat.

This makes no sense.

As long as they got the stop 1 on 1, that's all that matters.

tcav701
08-27-2010, 04:51 PM
This makes no sense.

As long as they got the stop 1 on 1, that's all that matters.

Most of the time they dont get the stop.

thescore53
08-27-2010, 04:53 PM
dirk

gasol

bosh/amare

beasted86
08-27-2010, 04:55 PM
Most of the time they dont get the stop.

Watch basketball please.

You weren't talking about "most of the time" smart guy. You basically stated it's bad if a guy gets a first step on his defender then his defender blocks it.

That's asinine logic, and obviously shows you know nothing about basketball no matter how much you watch. If you think Bosh or Amare are poor defenders, that's one thing, but a recovery block or a man-man block is the same thing. They got the stop, that's all that matters.

TheWatcher34
08-27-2010, 04:57 PM
everyone who knows baketball has to aknowledge that Dirk is a machine...and Gasol screams louder.

tcav701
08-27-2010, 04:59 PM
You weren't talking about "most of the time" smart guy. You basically stated it's bad if a guy gets a first step on his defender then his defender blocks it.

That's asinine logic, and obviously shows you know nothing about basketball no matter how much you watch. If you think Bosh or Amare are poor defenders, that's one thing, but a recovery block or a man-man block is the same thing. They got the stop, that's all that matters.

I was making two seperate statements:

1. They get beat

2. The 5% of the time they get the block they are praised for good defense and in the highlights.

This gives the false impression that they are good defenders.

Minimal
08-27-2010, 05:00 PM
Pau Gasol taking both offence and defence into consideration, a guy who lead Lakers to the championship.

beasted86
08-27-2010, 05:35 PM
I was making two seperate statements:

1. They get beat

2. The 5% of the time they get the block they are praised for good defense and in the highlights.

This gives the false impression that they are good defenders.

When you put it more clearly, I agree.

Guys like Bargnani, Amare, Al Jefferson, etc... might average more than 1 block, and people use that as an excuse to label them okay defenders, when they are really trash. Blocks are an overrated statistic if you aren't watching basketball.

But Bosh on the other hand, I'm 100% sure he is at least an average defender, because he showed he was actually "good" in the '08 Olympics. But playing on the Raptors for the worst defensive team in the league, and matching up defensively against Centers, when he is clearly a PF have given him a bad rap.

thescore53
08-27-2010, 05:43 PM
When you put it more clearly, I agree.

Guys like Bargnani, Amare, Al Jefferson, etc... might average more than 1 block, and people use that as an excuse to label them okay defenders, when they are really trash. Blocks are an overrated statistic if you aren't watching basketball.

But Bosh on the other hand, I'm 100% sure he is at least an average defender, because he showed he was actually "good" in the '08 Olympics. But playing on the Raptors for the worst defensive team in the league, and matching up defensively against Centers, when he is clearly a PF have given him a bad rap.

dude. amare was a good defender in allstar games and in the olympics. i watched bosh get dominated by carl landry so badly that they had to switch him for bargnani. and then scola took his turn with him. he cant guard craig smith,boozer, millsap, or any undersized pf let alone centers. but he does guard the pick and roll well.

and bargnani guards most of the centers but most centers are pf anyways so it doesnt matter.

tcav701
08-27-2010, 05:48 PM
When you put it more clearly, I agree.

Guys like Bargnani, Amare, Al Jefferson, etc... might average more than 1 block, and people use that as an excuse to label them okay defenders, when they are really trash. Blocks are an overrated statistic if you aren't watching basketball.

But Bosh on the other hand, I'm 100% sure he is at least an average defender, because he showed he was actually "good" in the '08 Olympics. But playing on the Raptors for the worst defensive team in the league, and matching up defensively against Centers, when he is clearly a PF have given him a bad rap.

I dont think Bosh is a terrible defender by any means. He isnt very good tho. But he will play some Center this year and get beat up a little bit.

Amare, I think is an awful defender. This whole point stemmed from someone trying to tell me otherwise with a clip of him blocking Gasol.

Wasnt trying to put them down I was just disagreeing with another poster that was sugesting Amare and Bosh were in the top 3 of this poll over Duncan and Gasol.

J_M_B
08-27-2010, 05:51 PM
Dirk.

Hawkeye15
08-27-2010, 05:52 PM
Bosh is #170 overall in defense when considering Points Per Possession given to his opponent. He is #16 in isolations, but he gets drug down due to not closing. Overall, Bosh is in the top 1/3 of the league as far as defenders go.
Amare is actually a good perimeter defender, but gets beat up a bit down low.
Overall, neither is a great defender. But they are somewhat similar as far as overall effect.

Spurred1
08-27-2010, 06:00 PM
I don't think Amare tries on defense from what I've seen. But he shouldn't be in the top three of this discussion, anyway.
Gasol/Duncan/Dirk are the top three pfs. But Gasol and Duncan play more of an inside game than Dirk does.
Think I'll be a homer and go with Duncan. Yeah, he's old. So what?

cabernetluver
08-27-2010, 06:03 PM
Not to take anything away from gasol but this is a terrible analysis. Of Course Gasol shoots a higher percentage, he is the second option in the lakers offense, Dirk is the number 1 in Dallas. Who do you think gets the better looks? Plus Gasol's game is around the basket, Dirk can play both.
Not to mention, Dirk had the higher post-season FG%. Everything else you mentioned is opinion? Better passer and defender? it depends in what respect.

Your analysis makes the point why Gasol is the better power forward. Gasol play the position while Dirk is sort of a hybrid power/small forward. Years ago, the same kind of question was being made of Magic and John Stockton at point guard. Magic was hybrid. Magic was the better player. Pau plays better interior defense (the job of the power forward), and is a better passer. The qualification of depends on what respect makes no sense to me, but, with explanation might.

You did not make this argument, so, it is not aimed at you, but I am tired about people writing about what he did before becoming a Laker. I can compare his play from his first season to his second season as a Laker, and the improvement was not hard to spot. He became far more physical, and stopped being a Dirk type shooter (not as good from distance) to the player he turned into.

This question is not a debate about who is the better basketball player, it is a debate about who is the best power forward, and Gasol is that, hands down. If I were the GM of the Lakers, and could trade him even up for anyone else, I would decline the trade. Now, if I did not have the greatest player in the game, and was building from scratch, maybe a different answer. However, judging from the position only, Gasol is the better player.

lakerboy
08-27-2010, 06:04 PM
Pau

Swashcuff
08-27-2010, 06:05 PM
I can't believe this over 220 posts and Hellcrooner hasn't even paid a visit. He'll be so upset when he saw what he missed out on. After all Pau is gonna take it.

thescore53
08-27-2010, 06:07 PM
damn !

ball4reel
08-27-2010, 06:19 PM
Dirk he's the #1 option on a good team.Shoots,dribbles,and passes well.

bostncelts34
08-27-2010, 06:20 PM
As much as it pains me to say this, this last year i believe Pau has upped his game and is #1 with Dirk as a close number 2.

Chronz
08-27-2010, 06:35 PM
This.

Where was Gasol before joining Kobe??? Never got out of the 1st round and so many times missed the playoffs.
Where was Kobe before Pau?


Gasol is a great player and made to look even better because of the team he plays for. But please someone give me an unbiased opinion of what areas his game is better than Bosh's. Can't say defender or rebounder, can't say better shooter or shot blocker, maybe the better passer and that's it as far as I can tell.
Actually you CAN say most of those things. If your saying MAYBE the better passer then your a troll.


If you mean by all accounts possible then yeah. Because Gasol is the best passing big man in the game, and he's definitely a better defender than Dirk. 2 years ago I wouldn't have said the same about Gasol, but he's gotten a lot better on that end of the court.
According to Duncan hes always been a good defender




just showing you examples lol @ there being something wrong with showing clips of them actually playing
Aside from the fact that those possessions encompass like 5% of their actual contributions. Amare is a guy who Pau has owned for years, he outplayed him that same series AND is MUCH better at defending.



what?! gasol is a horrible defender lmao since when was he a great defender now?:confused: Garnett was going to WORK on gasol and amare was literally dunking all over gasol this year
I dont believe a word you say, can you provide any #'s?


How do you justify that Kobe is better than Monta Ellis? Similar stats??

Gasol is a better player because he can win a game, he is a far better defender than Amare, he can do all the little things like an offensive rebound here and there, setting screens, rolling, and IQ is so much higher.
Youve got alot to learn about stats


I pulled up Gasols stats from when he was in Memphis.

05-06 20.4 ppg 8.9 rpg 4.6 apg with Memphis
06-07 20.8 ppg 9.8 rpg 3.4 apg with Memphis

08-09 18.9 ppg 9.6 rpg 3.5 apg with LA
09-10 18.3 ppg 11.3rpg 3.4 apg with LA


What makes me laugh about this is his stats are pretty much the same today as they were 4 years ago, yet 4 years ago Gasol was barely considered a top 5-10 pf. Now people consider him the best pf in the game, though he's basically the same player he's been his entire career. Funny how that works.
Answer: 4 years ago he was underrated

69centers
08-27-2010, 07:51 PM
Any Laker fan here is kidding themselves if they think their team is better with Gasol than if they had Bosh or Nowitzki in his place. I can tell you, we wouldn't have seen Game 7 in the Finals if you had either of those two instead of Gasol. Pau is not the best PF in the game, despite getting the PSD votes here, which is a heavy Laker fan forum anyway.

dtmagnet
08-27-2010, 07:59 PM
Hard to choose between Dirk and Pau but I think its Dirk.

Hustlenomics
08-27-2010, 08:09 PM
Aside from the fact that those possessions encompass like 5% of their actual contributions. Amare is a guy who Pau has owned for years, he outplayed him that same series AND is MUCH better at defending.

lmao amare has owned pau for years and ESPECIALLY in that game where he dropped 42 on gasol and i constantly saw him making poster dunks on gasol

Stoudemire turned his attention to Lakers centers Andrew Bynum and Pau Gasol, saying he used to dominate Gasol when the 7-foot Spaniard played for the Memphis Grizzlies.
“It was total domination,” Stoudemire told The Arizona Republic of his 2005 first-round playoff matchup with Gasol. “But now he has a little brother (Bynum) with him so now he’s a little more confident because he’s got someone to help him in the post.”



I dont believe a word you say, can you provide any #'s?

ummm game 3 where garnett wasn't in foul trouble and was constantly exposing Gasol's weak defense and droped 25 points on 11-16 shooting damn near 70 % ;) and like damn near all of kg's field goals where on Gasol when he isolated against him

Bishnoff
08-27-2010, 08:15 PM
Currently Pau.

Hawkeye15
08-27-2010, 08:16 PM
hustlenomics, you just dripped blood in the water....

Hustlenomics
08-27-2010, 08:18 PM
hustlenomics, you just dripped blood in the water....

:laugh2:

Bishnoff
08-27-2010, 08:19 PM
lmao amare has owned pau for years and ESPECIALLY in that game where he dropped 42 on gasol and i constantly saw him making poster dunks on gasol

Stoudemire turned his attention to Lakers centers Andrew Bynum and Pau Gasol, saying he used to dominate Gasol when the 7-foot Spaniard played for the Memphis Grizzlies.
“It was total domination,” Stoudemire told The Arizona Republic of his 2005 first-round playoff matchup with Gasol. “But now he has a little brother (Bynum) with him so now he’s a little more confident because he’s got someone to help him in the post.”




ummm game 3 where garnett wasn't in foul trouble and was constantly exposing Gasol's weak defense and droped 25 points on 11-16 shooting damn near 70 % ;) and like damn near all of kg's field goals where on Gasol when he isolated against him

Amar'e was my favourite player and is now my favourite ex-Sun, but Pau is better than him nowadays. Pau has grown into the more complete player. Amar'e used to dominate him, but not anymore. Truth be told, Bynum was virtually useless in the 2010 WCF and Gasol shared the defensive duties on Amar’e with Odom.

Hawkeye15
08-27-2010, 08:20 PM
:laugh2:

but, debating with Chronz is the fastest way to learn I guess. Good luck

69centers
08-27-2010, 08:20 PM
lmao amare has owned pau for years and ESPECIALLY in that game where he dropped 42 on gasol and i constantly saw him making poster dunks on gasol

Stoudemire turned his attention to Lakers centers Andrew Bynum and Pau Gasol, saying he used to dominate Gasol when the 7-foot Spaniard played for the Memphis Grizzlies.
It was total domination, Stoudemire told The Arizona Republic of his 2005 first-round playoff matchup with Gasol. But now he has a little brother (Bynum) with him so now hes a little more confident because hes got someone to help him in the post.




ummm game 3 where garnett wasn't in foul trouble and was constantly exposing Gasol's weak defense and droped 25 points on 11-16 shooting damn near 70 % ;) and like damn near all of kg's field goals where on Gasol when he isolated against him

Paul is much better defensively, but in a head to head matchup, a la Bird vs. Dr. J video game, Amare would eat Pau for breakfast with his offensive firepower. Pau's better suited in a team game, however, which is why I think if you transpose Amare with Pau on the Lakers, they wouldn't be as successful.

Jewelz0376
08-27-2010, 08:21 PM
Any Laker fan here is kidding themselves if they think their team is better with Gasol than if they had Bosh or Nowitzki in his place. I can tell you, we wouldn't have seen Game 7 in the Finals if you had either of those two instead of Gasol. Pau is not the best PF in the game, despite getting the PSD votes here, which is a heavy Laker fan forum anyway.

They would be better with Dirk but Bosh?? get outta here with that... In the triangle you need bigs who can post up and Pau has the best post game in the league next to maybe Duncan

Hawkeye15
08-27-2010, 08:21 PM
btw, without reading through all these pages, hustlenomics, are you stating Amare is a better player than Pau?

tcav701
08-27-2010, 08:24 PM
btw, without reading through all these pages, hustlenomics, are you stating Amare is a better player than Pau?

Yes.

He fought tooth and nail to try to explain that to me.

Hustlenomics
08-27-2010, 08:24 PM
I'm just saying Gasol's defense is not good

tcav701
08-27-2010, 08:28 PM
Ill just let the polls speak for themselves.

We all know who the top 3 will be.

Hawkeye15
08-27-2010, 08:30 PM
I'm just saying Gasol's defense is not good

give me your argument please, so I can respond. And use evidence, not your eyes, which is the weakest argument on this site

Avenged
08-27-2010, 08:31 PM
Amare is in no way shape or form better than Gasol. :confused:

Hustlenomics
08-27-2010, 08:32 PM
Amare is in no way shape or form better than Gasol. :confused:

he's not a better scorer than gasol? lol

knicksfan42
08-27-2010, 08:33 PM
I like Dirk at #1. I'm sorry, but I'm going with an MVP winner over a PF who has yet to make an All-NBA Team.

Hawkeye15
08-27-2010, 08:33 PM
he's not a better scorer than gasol? lol

in the pick and roll situation, yes, Amare is a better scorer. On the block, Pau is far better.

Avenged
08-27-2010, 08:33 PM
he's not a better scorer than gasol? lol

Not really considering Gasol is better overall offensively.