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Mile High Champ
08-26-2010, 09:26 AM
Hey guys, Some of you may remember that for the last two years I have conducted a poll at the end of the season that had PSD users vote for the top 10 players at each position. Its is now that time to vote! I would like to start this up once more considering the NBA season is now over and we can get to this discussion since lots has changed since the start of last season. Please TRY AND VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER AND DON'T BE A HOMER. I will leave the poll open for one day and than we can carry on to the next best player at that position. I will add more players after each round. I have also included the results of those last 2 years so everyone can see how much things have changed...Enjoy.


REMEMBER this is based on who is the best player, not the player who has the potential to be the best.

SF Rankings DONT FORGET TO VOTE!!

1) Lebron James
2) Kevin Durant
3) Carmelo Anthony
4) Paul Pierce
5) Danny Granger
6) Gerald Wallace
7) Andre Iguodala
8) Rudy Gay
9)
10)




2009 Off Season SF Rankings

1) Lebron James
2) Carmelo Anthony
3) Kevin Durant
4) Paul Pierce
5) Danny Granger
6) Andre Iguodala
7) Caron Butler
8) Hedo Turkoglu
9) Ron Artest
10) Stephen Jackson

2008 Off-Season SF rankings

1) Lebron James
2) Paul Pierce
3) Carmelo Anthony
4) Caron Butler
5) Ron Artest
6) Shawn Marion
7) Josh Smith
8) Richard Jefferson
9) Lamar Odom
10) Tayshaun Prince

goose15
08-26-2010, 09:29 AM
Gallinari

Mile High Champ
08-26-2010, 09:29 AM
You know knicks fans are out in full force when Gallinari is winning the poll...

TheTakeOver24
08-26-2010, 09:34 AM
Artest... his defense and intensity trumps everyone else on this list.

save the knicks
08-26-2010, 09:34 AM
The Rooster

sixers247
08-26-2010, 09:35 AM
I chose Galli, i dont really know why but i feel like he will blow up this year.

heatbb
08-26-2010, 09:37 AM
Cmon, Gallinari over Artest? :facepalm:

Artest!

Antipod
08-26-2010, 09:42 AM
Artest deserves this, he did a decent/pretty good job for the champs last year.

pebloemer
08-26-2010, 09:48 AM
Between Deng, Butler and Artest for me.

I went Deng with this one. Great defender, rebounder with a very consistent shot.

I think Butler could have more talent, but his down year last year persuades me against him here.

I'd love to hear the Gallinari case for all those voting him.

save the knicks
08-26-2010, 09:55 AM
Artest deserves this, he did a decent/pretty good job for the champs last year.


Ron Ron is on his way down! 11.4 ppg and a TS% barley above .500.

Ron Ron = role player on the decline, Gallo = young star on the rise

go gallo!

Between Deng, Butler and Artest for me.

I went Deng with this one. Great defender, rebounder with a very consistent shot.

I think Butler could have more talent, but his down year last year persuades me against him here.

I'd love to hear the Gallinari case for all those voting him.
Gallinari has similar numbers to all these guys even though its only his second season and he is already one of the best outside shooters in the League. Also, this coming season he will be playing with teammates interested in winning; no more Duhon to Lee, Lee to Duhon for 24 seconds or Al Harrington going 1 on 5 staring a hole into the court!

Mr Moody
08-26-2010, 09:57 AM
lol homerism in full force

ny212
08-26-2010, 09:57 AM
i choose gallinari because...
1) a little bit of a homer
2) because i think he will have a monster year cause theres really no ball hogs
3) he might not be the best defender but he wants the challenge
4) he has the attitude needed in ny

Basketash
08-26-2010, 09:59 AM
I'll take Deng

DaBUU
08-26-2010, 10:01 AM
i choose gallinari because...
1) a little bit of a homer
2) because i think he will have a monster year cause theres really no ball hogs
3) he might not be the best defender but he wants the challenge
4) he has the attitude needed in ny

you could of stopped at #1 on your list.

Deng ftw!

Khalifa21
08-26-2010, 10:02 AM
Gotta show my boy Gallo some love.

save the knicks
08-26-2010, 10:05 AM
Delete

TheTakeOver24
08-26-2010, 10:08 AM
Please TRY AND VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER AND DON'T BE A HOMER.

REMEMBER this is based on who is the best player, not the player who has the potential to be the best.



i choose gallinari because...
1) a little bit of a homer
2) because i think he will have a monster year cause theres really no ball hogs
3) he might not be the best defender but he wants the challenge
4) he has the attitude needed in ny

:facepalm:

Gators123
08-26-2010, 10:08 AM
edit...

Brooklyn Mets
08-26-2010, 10:09 AM
hit Butler by accident.. meant to pick Deng..

Swashcuff
08-26-2010, 10:12 AM
You know knicks fans are out in full force when Gallinari is winning the poll...

You're sure right

Swashcuff
08-26-2010, 10:14 AM
Between Deng, Butler and Artest for me.

I went Deng with this one. Great defender, rebounder with a very consistent shot.

I think Butler could have more talent, but his down year last year persuades me against him here.

I'd love to hear the Gallinari case for all those voting him.

don't you realise people can clearly see who you voted for? You editted your post so we won't see how big of a fool you made urself into. :confused:

Swashcuff
08-26-2010, 10:15 AM
This is Deng easily, though I think he is #9 a strong case could have been made for him at 7 and even 8. He surely deserves this.

save the knicks
08-26-2010, 10:17 AM
Calling people homers is weak sauce. How can Corey Maggette have 0 votes? 20 a game shooting 50% getting to the line 8 times per

Kashmir13579
08-26-2010, 10:18 AM
its rooster time!

Kashmir13579
08-26-2010, 10:19 AM
:facepalm:

if you have no words only a facepalm that leads me to believe you dont have a rational arguement. only facepalm. which is pathetic.

save the knicks
08-26-2010, 10:22 AM
was willson Chandler on the SG poll?

TheTakeOver24
08-26-2010, 10:28 AM
if you have no words only a facepalm that leads me to believe you dont have a rational arguement. only facepalm. which is pathetic.

Lol do u seriously need me to explain it to you???
The OP specifically said dont be a homer and dont base ur vote on potential... Then the knicks fan lists those exact reasons as why he picked DG.
That IMO deserves a facepalm.

NYMetros
08-26-2010, 10:30 AM
Calling people homers is weak sauce. How can Corey Maggette have 0 votes? 20 a game shooting 50% getting to the line 8 times per

Because he plays in a system that is all about offense and stresses no defense. Deng is the far superior two-way player.

setter
08-26-2010, 10:30 AM
cmon mister luol deng deserves this spot.

pebloemer
08-26-2010, 10:30 AM
You voted for him......


don't you realise people can clearly see who you voted for? You editted your post so we won't see how big of a fool you made urself into. :confused:

No, he edited his post because he was replying to my original post earlier in the thread, but there was a mistake of sorts in his brackets which made it look like he made those claims. He isn't actually making himself into a fool at all.... Read through the thread and you'll see it is my post, not his.

drama1386
08-26-2010, 10:30 AM
its gotta be artest. out of anyone on the list currently, he is the best defender and was a huge part of the lakers winning the championship.

J-Relo
08-26-2010, 10:31 AM
i choose gallinari because...
1) a little bit of a homer
2) because i think he will have a monster year cause theres really no ball hogs
3) he might not be the best defender but he wants the challenge
4) he has the attitude needed in ny

actually you made no solid points, well, except first one :clap:

Swashcuff
08-26-2010, 10:33 AM
if you have no words only a facepalm that leads me to believe you dont have a rational arguement. only facepalm. which is pathetic.

quite frankly your post did not deserve a decent post. A facepalm was quite sufficient for what you said.

Swashcuff
08-26-2010, 10:36 AM
No, he edited his post because he was replying to my original post earlier in the thread, but there was a mistake of sorts in his brackets which made it look like he made those claims. He isn't actually making himself into a fool at all.... Read through the thread and you'll see it is my post, not his.

good looking out bro. My apologies to save the knicks

pebloemer
08-26-2010, 10:38 AM
Gallinari has similar numbers to all these guys even though its only his second season and he is already one of the best outside shooters in the League. Also, this coming season he will be playing with teammates interested in winning; no more Duhon to Lee, Lee to Duhon for 24 seconds or Al Harrington going 1 on 5 staring a hole into the court!

Which numbers are you looking at?

I have no questions about the remainder of your reasoning.

save the knicks
08-26-2010, 10:39 AM
I find it funny that Gallo is considered a homer pick but Artest isnt.

Artest clearly isn't what he used to be and his numbers bear that out. Some of you are like cats OHH look at the shiny ring!!!!

Its really between Gallo and Deng

Gallos offence tips the scale in his favor imo

Gators123
08-26-2010, 10:41 AM
No, he edited his post because he was replying to my original post earlier in the thread, but there was a mistake of sorts in his brackets which made it look like he made those claims. He isn't actually making himself into a fool at all.... Read through the thread and you'll see it is my post, not his.

Opps, lol

Sorry, Save the knicks :)

TheTakeOver24
08-26-2010, 10:46 AM
I find it funny that Gallo is considered a homer pick but Artest isnt.

Artest clearly isn't what he used to be and his numbers bear that out. Some of you are like cats OHH look at the shiny ring!!!!

Its really between Gallo and Deng

Gallos offence tips the scale in his favor imo

Noone other than a couple Knicks fans themselves called it a homer pick

save the knicks
08-26-2010, 10:49 AM
Which numbers are you looking at?

I have no questions about the remainder of your reasoning.

You said its between Deng and Caron right?

so im looking at TS% and pts

Gallo - 575 - 15
Deng - 531 - 17
Butler - 501 - 16

Blocks

Butler - 25
Deng - 61
Gallo - 58

BigEasy1323
08-26-2010, 10:54 AM
I find it funny that Gallo is considered a homer pick but Artest isnt.

Artest clearly isn't what he used to be and his numbers bear that out. Some of you are like cats OHH look at the shiny ring!!!!

Its really between Gallo and Deng

Gallos offence tips the scale in his favor imo

Deng is the better player. Across the board most of his numbers are better and he contributes to a playoff team. Danilo "may" break out next year (he is a good player with the potential to have a big year) but this poll is ranking best small forwards right now and Deng has got the step on him

Swashcuff
08-26-2010, 10:54 AM
You said its between Deng and Caron right?

so im looking at TS% and pts

Gallo - 575 - 15
Deng - 531 - 17
Butler - 501 - 16

Blocks

Butler - 25
Deng - 61
Gallo - 58

If those are all the stats you are going to take into consideration then you are being biased towards a certain individual (Gallo).

Cool007
08-26-2010, 10:59 AM
LMAO at people voting for Artest over Deng.

Artest has what 1 good game out of every 5+ games??? His defense now-a-days is not that good anymore. He is super super inconsistent.

Luol Deng pretty easily the better player last year and from this point on.

save the knicks
08-26-2010, 11:00 AM
If those are all the stats you are going to take into consideration then you are being biased towards a certain individual (Gallo).

Well which are you looking at?

The only category where one guy has a huge lead is steals and thats in Butlers favor.

As far as rebounds go Gallo was playing next to one of the best rebounder's in the league last year. Furthermore, Deng played more mins per game and in my opinion, because the Bulls were a better defensive team, they forced more missed shots than the knicks making more boards available.

stejay
08-26-2010, 11:02 AM
Artest

Steelers23_06
08-26-2010, 11:14 AM
I find it funny that Gallo is considered a homer pick but Artest isnt.

Artest clearly isn't what he used to be and his numbers bear that out. Some of you are like cats OHH look at the shiny ring!!!!

Its really between Gallo and Deng

Gallos offence tips the scale in his favor imo

i say neither of these are better than deng but artest bring more to a team than gallo and thats no homerism at all.

gwrighter
08-26-2010, 11:48 AM
yeah deng is rightfully the 9th.

Chacarron
08-26-2010, 12:21 PM
Ron Artest.

Sadds The Gr8
08-26-2010, 12:28 PM
The Rooster

lol when I heard the Raps broadcast team say his nickname i was like hahaha wtf? U guys know where he got that nickname from and how?

Sadds The Gr8
08-26-2010, 12:29 PM
Butler fell off last year, so I picked Deng.

td0tsfinest
08-26-2010, 12:40 PM
went with Luol Deng on this one.

save the knicks
08-26-2010, 12:41 PM
lol when I heard the Raps broadcast team say his nickname i was like hahaha wtf? U guys know where he got that nickname from and how?

I think Gallo means rooster in Italian

Also when you watch him play you'll notice he moves like a rooster

use this for reference if you haven't seen a rooster walk around
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TNskECO2Dc

nuggetsyankees
08-26-2010, 12:44 PM
you have to remember that Artest isn't gonna get all the flashy stats with Kobe...he does the little thing that helps his team...he obviously has potential to score 20 ppg

Jays Claw
08-26-2010, 12:54 PM
I was originally going to go with Caron Butler, however, after breaking down his 2009-2010 season, I realized it was pathetically awful. Therefore, I went with Luol Deng. An excellent defender to go along with consistent scoring.

Sadds The Gr8
08-26-2010, 12:56 PM
I was originally going to go with Caron Butler, however, after breaking down his 2009-2010 season, I realized it was pathetically awful. Therefore, I went with Luol Deng. An excellent defender to go along with consistent scoring.

exactly what I did:cool:

xbrackattackx
08-26-2010, 12:57 PM
Artest for his defense and he carried the lakers when everyone else was off in game 7. He was a lockdown defender.

runforrestrunx9
08-26-2010, 12:57 PM
I chose gallo cuz i firgured deng would win anyway and i think he is guna blow up in NY this year

Sadds The Gr8
08-26-2010, 12:58 PM
I think Gallo means rooster in Italian

Also when you watch him play you'll notice he moves like a rooster

use this for reference if you haven't seen a rooster walk around
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TNskECO2Dc

:laugh2: I see

Da Knicks
08-26-2010, 12:58 PM
Galloooooooooooooooo

pebloemer
08-26-2010, 12:59 PM
You said its between Deng and Caron right?

so im looking at TS% and pts

Gallo - 575 - 15
Deng - 531 - 17
Butler - 501 - 16

Blocks

Butler - 25
Deng - 61
Gallo - 58

Gallo is definitely the best shooter of the bunch, but I haven't seen him play much defensively. The Knicks as a whole weren't a very good defensive team, but many of Gallo's defensive stats are poor.

I do think he'll improve with a better supporting cast around him this year and another year of development though.

I did say for me it was between Butler and Deng, yes. Deng's stats combined with Butler's drop off made it an easy choice for me.

ChiSox219
08-26-2010, 01:00 PM
Please put Batum in the next poll.

Chronz
08-26-2010, 01:04 PM
Deng is the easy choice, hes a stud defender on the level of an Artest and he doesnt disappear offensively like #15

black1605
08-26-2010, 01:07 PM
Deng.

Niro
08-26-2010, 01:10 PM
Calling people homers is weak sauce. How can Corey Maggette have 0 votes? 20 a game shooting 50% getting to the line 8 times per

well did u see him play last year???

thats the answer...once again if its just per game #s monta is probly a top 10 player in the nba ;)

i voted for butler

Antipod
08-26-2010, 01:16 PM
Di(e)ng Di(e)ng Di(e)ng has the edge :D
Anyway, i think he`s overrated :)

BigEasy1323
08-26-2010, 01:28 PM
Well which are you looking at?

The only category where one guy has a huge lead is steals and thats in Butlers favor.

As far as rebounds go Gallo was playing next to one of the best rebounder's in the league last year. Furthermore, Deng played more mins per game and in my opinion, because the Bulls were a better defensive team, they forced more missed shots than the knicks making more boards available.

Deng also played alongside Noah (11 rebounds) and Gibson (7.5 rebounds)

PS while I think David Lee is a good rebounder I feel his totals are inflated based on the way NY plays (and Golden State will play this year)

BkOriginalOne
08-26-2010, 01:28 PM
Deng Over Artest?

BkOriginalOne
08-26-2010, 01:29 PM
When was Deng's last effective season? Under Scott Skiles?

BOSTON617
08-26-2010, 01:31 PM
deng oveerrrated are you kidding me

arkanian215
08-26-2010, 01:36 PM
As much as I love Caron, he lost his edge when he stopped drinking the Dew and lost some weight. Deng for me.

Nocioni5
08-26-2010, 01:38 PM
When was Deng's last effective season? Under Scott Skiles?

last season 17.9 ppg and 7.3 rbg is nothing to be embarrassed about.

Cool007
08-26-2010, 01:39 PM
When was Deng's last effective season? Under Scott Skiles?

Did you hibernate last year???

Cool007
08-26-2010, 01:40 PM
deng oveerrrated are you kidding me

How is he overrated when he would be perfectly rated at #9???

Swashcuff
08-26-2010, 01:41 PM
Well which are you looking at?

The only category where one guy has a huge lead is steals and thats in Butlers favor.

As far as rebounds go Gallo was playing next to one of the best rebounder's in the league last year. Furthermore, Deng played more mins per game and in my opinion, because the Bulls were a better defensive team, they forced more missed shots than the knicks making more boards available.

I am on work so I really don't have the time to get into this discussion but I'd give you a comparison of how they matched up

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=denglu01&p2=gallida01

as you can clearly see Deng had the edge on him in basically every game they have ever played against eachother. Though he was guarded by both Wilson and Gallo he still had above average production.

Deng's PER among in his 1st 2 seasons was also higher than Gallo's and thing is we are not comparing their 1st years we are comparing them right now and as of right now Den's is much higher. I'll get back to you with some more facts (not just stats) later.

Cool007
08-26-2010, 01:42 PM
Deng Over Artest?

Is that even a question???

Even Lakers fans knew how bad he was last year and sooooooooooo inconsistent.

People still living off of someone's reputation. This is not 2008 people. Welcome to 2010-11 season.

Swashcuff
08-26-2010, 01:43 PM
deng oveerrrated are you kidding me

Are you serious Luol Deng is one of the most underraeted players in the league. Overrated you must be joking.

Kashmir13579
08-26-2010, 01:49 PM
quite frankly your post did not deserve a decent post. A facepalm was quite sufficient for what you said.

it wasnt my post smart***. but i'll tell you the same thing. i'm a little bit homer, gallo shows mad heart, and hes gonna blow up this year. "quite frankly" you are all haters but we don't mind. gallo will leave it all on the court this year.

BigEasy1323
08-26-2010, 01:51 PM
I think the knock on Deng (besides his injury problems) is that he has been a very well rounded consistent player since he entered the NBA (injury shortened '08-'09 aside) and everyone has waited for him to take the next step. Early on in Bulls circles there was talk of him becoming the first All-Star since Jordan and that did not pan out. This is often been viewed as Deng not reaching his potential, but he quietly goes out and does his job. Very good defender and mid-range shooter. Will get inside and rebound just as good as any small forward and never complains wether he is the first option or fourth option on the floor. He is never going to carry a team, but is one of the better complimentary players in the league

Swashcuff
08-26-2010, 01:58 PM
it wasnt my post smart***. but i'll tell you the same thing. i'm a little bit homer, gallo shows mad heart, and hes gonna blow up this year. "quite frankly" you are all haters but we don't mind. gallo will leave it all on the court this year.

How am I a hater? Are you crazy Gallo is excellent and proved that he can potentially live up to the hype, but your reasoning was foolish and Deng as it stands for right now and the immediate future IS better.

save the knicks
08-26-2010, 01:59 PM
I am on work so I really don't have the time to get into this discussion but I'd give you a comparison of how they matched up

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=denglu01&p2=gallida01

as you can clearly see Deng had the edge on him in basically every game they have ever played against eachother. Though he was guarded by both Wilson and Gallo he still had above average production.

Deng's PER among in his 1st 2 seasons was also higher than Gallo's and thing is we are not comparing their 1st years we are comparing them right now and as of right now Den's is much higher. I'll get back to you with some more facts (not just stats) later.

I see what you are saying but when i look at that comparison i notice that Deng is playing atleast 10 more mins per game. Also they werent going head to head the entire time so it seems kind of anicdotal. Prehaps we should take a look at which guy had more dominating perfomances this year?

Swashcuff
08-26-2010, 02:03 PM
I see what you are saying but when i look at that comparison i notice that Deng is playing atleast 10 more mins per game. Also they werent going head to head the entire time so it seems kind of anicdotal. Prehaps we should take a look at which guy had more dominating perfomances this year?

PER takes that into consideration as well, and IF he is indeed better then IMO he should have been given the oppurtunity to play more. Right? He really showed serious potential last season.

netsgiantsyanks
08-26-2010, 02:13 PM
id take artest over deng any day of the week

Hawkeye15
08-26-2010, 02:14 PM
Deng was #7 for me, so obviously he will continue to get my vote until he isn't a choice.

disgruntledbull
08-26-2010, 02:19 PM
I see what you are saying but when i look at that comparison i notice that Deng is playing atleast 10 more mins per game. Also they werent going head to head the entire time so it seems kind of anicdotal. Prehaps we should take a look at which guy had more dominating perfomances this year?

deng had the one nasty game early in the season where he went for like 24 pts and 20 boards. id call that pretty dominating for a sf

Ebbs
08-26-2010, 02:19 PM
I would take Caron then Deng. Artest at a top 10 SF is a joke. He isnt even the best defender at his position. Then you factor how he plays 0 O . ..

Swashcuff
08-26-2010, 02:22 PM
I would take Caron then Deng. Artest at a top 10 SF is a joke. He isnt even the best defender at his position. Then you factor how he plays 0 O . ..

of course you would.

Gators123
08-26-2010, 02:24 PM
Butler wasn't very good last season..

I'll vote Deng

Hawkeye15
08-26-2010, 02:28 PM
I would take Caron then Deng. Artest at a top 10 SF is a joke. He isnt even the best defender at his position. Then you factor how he plays 0 O . ..

Butler hasnt been very good for two seasons now. He is on the cusp of falling out of the top 10-12 all together at this point.

Cano4prez
08-26-2010, 02:30 PM
Artest

John Walls Era
08-26-2010, 02:33 PM
Artest.

save the knicks
08-26-2010, 02:34 PM
Artest is going to break the top 10 and its a shame

Swashcuff
08-26-2010, 02:39 PM
Artest is going to break the top 10 and its a shame

well hear what, go do your research get some film/facts/stats and get ready to make a compelling argument that he isn't top 10 and i guarantee you that your voice would be heard. If you just make a statement like that no one will take you seriously because of how much Artest is worth to any franchise he goes to.

Baller1
08-26-2010, 02:59 PM
I'll take Artest.

save the knicks
08-26-2010, 02:59 PM
well hear what, go do your research get some film/facts/stats and get ready to make a compelling argument that he isn't top 10 and i guarantee you that your voice would be heard. If you just make a statement like that no one will take you seriously because of how much Artest is worth to any franchise he goes to.

Check this out http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=artesro01&y1=2010&p2=battish01&y2=2010

Ron vs Battier
They have similar numbers and many people attribute similar intangibles to them however Battier is no where to be found on this list. Why?

Artest is only here because he is a name

stealth33
08-26-2010, 03:10 PM
Check this out http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=artesro01&y1=2010&p2=battish01&y2=2010

Ron vs Battier
They have similar numbers and many people attribute similar intangibles to them however Battier is no where to be found on this list. Why?

Artest is only here because he is a name

The reality is post-season performance is always held a cut above regular season performance. Simple fact is Artest was a large reason why the Lakers won this year...and was a pretty critical factor in the most important game of the season.

The stage is magnified. Look at how many NCAA prospects have gone from off-the-radar to a lotto pick because of a good tourney. Look at how DWade first made his name (the playoffs of his rookie season is when he went from viewed as a good rookie to a future superstar). Even now when you mention DWade as a top 3 player...you inevitably cite the fact that he put Miami on his back to win a title.

Not just that but, intangibles can sometimes make/break arguments. Look at this offseason how some people dramatically changed their Lebron viewpoints. He went from GOAT discussion to (now some people are saying) he can never be mentioned along with Jordan -- AND THIS HAPPENED IN THE OFFSEASON. Not going to say whether it's fair or not. It's just how things are and how people view things.

Swashcuff
08-26-2010, 03:17 PM
Check this out http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=artesro01&y1=2010&p2=battish01&y2=2010

Ron vs Battier
They have similar numbers and many people attribute similar intangibles to them however Battier is no where to be found on this list. Why?

Artest is only here because he is a name

Ok you compared their career stats now look at them head to head

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=artesro01&p2=battish01

Ron brings more to the table on both ends than Battier does. Its not bias its the truth. Plus Battier has regressed on both ends even more than Artest has. Its not his name the guy is legit.

truplayer199
08-26-2010, 03:17 PM
Whoever voted for Gallo is an idiot. He shouldn't even be on the list IMO. Its between Deng and Artest.

Swashcuff
08-26-2010, 03:18 PM
The reality is post-season performance is always held a cut above regular season performance. Simple fact is Artest was a large reason why the Lakers won this year...and was a pretty critical factor in the most important game of the season.

The stage is magnified. Look at how many NCAA prospects have gone from off-the-radar to a lotto pick because of a good tourney. Look at how DWade first made his name (the playoffs of his rookie season is when he went from viewed as a good rookie to a future superstar). Even now when you mention DWade as a top 3 player...you inevitably cite the fact that he put Miami on his back to win a title.

Not just that but, intangibles can sometimes make/break arguments. Look at this offseason how some people dramatically changed their Lebron viewpoints. He went from GOAT discussion to (now some people are saying) he can never be mentioned along with Jordan -- AND THIS HAPPENED IN THE OFFSEASON. Not going to say whether it's fair or not. It's just how things are and how people view things.

Nice Post :clap:

beasted86
08-26-2010, 03:22 PM
Artest is the best defensive SF left on the board. He can score as much, and more than Deng if he had that role, but he doesn't.

We'll see what Deng's averages will look like as a 3rd option behind Rose & Boozer. I wouldn't be surprised to see them dip to Artest's numbers... and we know who is the better defender & shooter at that point.

Kakaroach
08-26-2010, 03:24 PM
Voted for Ron-Ron last poll, gonna do the same here.

Jewelz0376
08-26-2010, 03:35 PM
Artest is the best defensive SF left on the board. He can score as much, and more than Deng if he had that role, but he doesn't.

We'll see what Deng's averages will look like as a 3rd option behind Rose & Boozer. I wouldn't be surprised to see them dip to Artest's numbers... and we know who is the better defender & shooter at that point.

x2

Artest in the playoffs and towards the end of the season once he lost some weight he got back to his lock down d form...he completely shutdown the scoring champ Durant in the 1st round...he still go this pts but was shot a horribe percentage...he also did well against pierce in the finals..

thekmp211
08-26-2010, 03:40 PM
i voted for maggette, deng is better but he is being underrated on this poll. gallo is not better than corey. just making a point here..

zambo4president
08-26-2010, 03:40 PM
God these are the worst rankings ever.

Mr Moody
08-26-2010, 03:48 PM
Man people underrate Deng.

Baller1
08-26-2010, 06:52 PM
How is Luol Deng winning this ****?

DeyAce
08-26-2010, 07:04 PM
Deng

Go Dodgers!
08-26-2010, 07:05 PM
Deng can't even play a full season..

The Raven
08-26-2010, 07:08 PM
Artest

Chi-Town Sports
08-26-2010, 07:10 PM
Deng, why are people voting for Gallo at all. Deng has better offense than him, Artest has better defense. The only thing Gallo has on either of them is inflated stats lol

greek miami hea
08-26-2010, 07:11 PM
Artest... his defense and intensity trumps everyone else on this list.

yes i agree

VinceCarter
08-26-2010, 07:16 PM
Artest PER is TURRIBLE!!!! Artest PER is 12.12!! Average is 15.00

I'm taking the guy with the highest PER on the list with 20.40, Corey Maggette.

Ovratd1up
08-26-2010, 07:21 PM
Mile High, Batum NEEDS to be on this poll. Well too late now, but he's got to be on the next one. He's better than Artest, Gallinari, Caron...

beasted86
08-26-2010, 07:23 PM
Mile High, Batum NEEDS to be on this poll. Well too late now, but he's got to be on the next one. He's better than Artest, Gallinari, Caron...

No... the guy missed like 50 games.

beasted86
08-26-2010, 07:24 PM
Artest PER is TURRIBLE!!!! Artest PER is 12.12!! Average is 15.00

I'm taking the guy with the highest PER on the list with 20.40, Corey Maggette.

:pity:

Sixerlover
08-26-2010, 07:27 PM
If that is a list of SF's and i'm building a team, give me Artest. Like someone else said his top 3 defense on the wing, and his intensity are more valuable assets than anyone else has left on this list.

VinceCarter
08-26-2010, 07:29 PM
:pity:

:facepalm:

dhopisthename
08-26-2010, 07:30 PM
Artest PER is TURRIBLE!!!! Artest PER is 12.12!! Average is 15.00

I'm taking the guy with the highest PER on the list with 20.40, Corey Maggette.

per doesn't calculate defense unless it comes in the form of blocks, steals, and rebounds

Rivera
08-26-2010, 07:31 PM
artest

Ovratd1up
08-26-2010, 07:33 PM
No... the guy missed like 45 games.

While this is true, that doesn't make him any worse...


If that is a list of SF's and i'm building a team, give me Artest. Like someone else said his top 3 defense on the wing, and his intensity are more valuable assets than anyone else has left on this list.

I guarantee you no more than like 2 GM's would take Artest, even if for a season. The majority would take Deng, and some Prince/Butler/Gallo.

Iggz53
08-26-2010, 07:35 PM
Luol Deng by alot.

And he's definitely better than Gay as well.

Artest isn't anywhere near this conversation at the moment. He's not even a great defender anymore and pretty limited offensively.

dhopisthename
08-26-2010, 07:36 PM
I guarantee you no more than like 2 GM's would take Artest, even if for a season. The majority would take Deng, and some Prince/Butler/Gallo.

that might be true, there are not a lot of teams that can handle artest like the lakers can

BigEasy1323
08-26-2010, 07:36 PM
[QUOTE=Sixerlover;14700055]If that is a list of SF's and i'm building a team, give me Artest. Like someone else said his top 3 defense on the wing, and his intensity are more valuable assets than anyone else has left on this list.[/QUOT

Except Artest is a known loose cannon and a cancer. He came to LA to clean up his image and Phil Jackson is the man to do it. You would be in a very small percentage if you feel building a team around Artest is a good idea. He is a good complimentary player when he is not the main guy. (His history has shown us this) He may be the worst guy on this list to build up from

Sixerlover
08-26-2010, 07:37 PM
While this is true, that doesn't make him any worse...



I guarantee you no more than like 2 GM's would take Artest, even if for a season. The majority would take Deng, and some Prince/Butler/Gallo.

Oh can you guarantee that? I doubt LA, Boston, Orlando, Miami or any other team who thinks they can compete for a title would take any of those guys over Artest. I don't know why anyone would take Prince over Artest, sure a rebuilding team like Philly or NJ would take Gallo over him I get that.. And Butler was just terrible last year.

Sixerlover
08-26-2010, 07:40 PM
If that is a list of SF's and i'm building a team, give me Artest. Like someone else said his top 3 defense on the wing, and his intensity are more valuable assets than anyone else has left on this list.[/QUOT

Except Artest is a known loose cannon and a cancer. He came to LA to clean up his image and Phil Jackson is the man to do it. You would be in a very small percentage if you feel building a team around Artest is a good idea. He is a good complimentary player when he is not the main guy. (His history has shown us this) He may be the worst guy on this list to build up from

I guess building a team was bad choice of words. I'll agree with you guys there. More like "competing"

Hawkeye15
08-26-2010, 07:41 PM
I was actually surprised at how good Artest's defensive numbers are when I looked at synergy. But I was also surprised at how horrible his offensive stats were.
So do you prefer Deng, who is above average efficient on both ends, or do you want a player who is very good on one end, and horrendous on the other?

dhopisthename
08-26-2010, 07:42 PM
Oh can you guarantee that? I doubt LA, Boston, Orlando, Miami or any other team who thinks they can compete for a title would take any of those guys over Artest. I don't know why anyone would take Prince over Artest, sure a rebuilding team like Philly or NJ would take Gallo over him I get that.. And Butler was just terrible last year.

miami would not want him this season, maybe next when chemistry is worked out but not before then, and still they have the best sf in the game why would they want pay artest to come off the bench? boston doesn't need a sf, and orlando would probably take him

VinceCarter
08-26-2010, 07:44 PM
I was actually surprised at how good Artest's defensive numbers are when I looked at synergy. But I was also surprised at how horrible his offensive stats were.
So do you prefer Deng, who is above average efficient on both ends, or do you want a player who is very good on one end, and horrendous on the other?

Maggette has the highest PER of all of them....how's his synergy?

Sixerlover
08-26-2010, 07:46 PM
miami would not want him this season, maybe next when chemistry is worked out but not before then, and still they have the best sf in the game why would they want pay artest to come off the bench? boston doesn't need a sf, and orlando would probably take him

I mean you say pay Artest to come off the bench like they wouldn't be paying Deng / Prince / Butler to come off the bench too in this hypothetical scenario. You said the majority of GM's would take Deng (who would actually be getting paid MORE to come off the bench if that is even a factor), and i'm just saying a competing team would take Artest over Deng because he is a great perimeter defender, while Deng is an average defender.

Hawkeye15
08-26-2010, 07:48 PM
Maggette has the highest PER of all of them....how's his synergy?

he ranks #413 in overall man to man defense, in relation to how many points per possession he gives up. Not pretty

rhymeratic
08-26-2010, 07:48 PM
Gallinari will be 20+ ppg this season on 45%fg and 38% 3pts. mark my words.

Hawkeye15
08-26-2010, 07:51 PM
Gallinari will be 20+ ppg this season on 45%fg and 38% 3pts. mark my words.

how is he gonna do on the other end?

Sixerlover
08-26-2010, 07:54 PM
he ranks #413 in overall man to man defense, in relation to how many points per possession he gives up. Not pretty
That is plain terrible. At what # does the ranking stop?

Hawkeye15
08-26-2010, 07:56 PM
That is plain terrible. At what # does the ranking stop?

#450. I am assuming its 15 times 30. But then again, players come in and out of the league, so its probably more like #500. But anything over #275 overall means you are below average

bkmikeyy
08-26-2010, 08:10 PM
how is he gonna do on the other end?

Gallo is actually not an AWFUL defender. I will agree with you that he is below average (slightly) and looks sort of awkward sometimes but I feel like his defense is being a little underrated. He was actually one of the better defenders on the Knicks last year (ye i know its not saying much).

Swashcuff
08-26-2010, 08:30 PM
man people underrate deng.

fact!

beasted86
08-26-2010, 08:52 PM
Except Artest is a known loose cannon and a cancer. He came to LA to clean up his image and Phil Jackson is the man to do it. You would be in a very small percentage if you feel building a team around Artest is a good idea. He is a good complimentary player when he is not the main guy. (His history has shown us this) He may be the worst guy on this list to build up from

Sorry, but if you are building a team around any of the guys left on the board... you are S.O.L. as a GM. :facepalm:

Anyway, I'm picking a role player to help me win a championship this season, I'm picking Artest over Deng.

sargon21
08-26-2010, 08:58 PM
artest is a bad choice, i would pick gallo over him as well as deng

Kashmir13579
08-26-2010, 09:31 PM
out of one mouth chicago fans are always saying that drose does it with no help, out of their other mouth they say deng is a top 10 sf

jtrinaldi
08-26-2010, 09:32 PM
Luch bah moute PWNS all

jdub747
08-26-2010, 09:44 PM
Andrei Kirilenko, last year of his HUGE contract gotta prove himself so he can get that paper boi

Ovratd1up
08-26-2010, 09:52 PM
that might be true, there are not a lot of teams that can handle artest like the lakers can

Yup, they handled him well. But Deng was still better last season. As far as I'm concerned unless you have three superstars or four very good scorers, you take Deng. If you are Miami or LA, maybe Boston, you take Artest.

Ovratd1up
08-26-2010, 09:54 PM
Oh can you guarantee that? I doubt LA, Boston, Orlando, Miami or any other team who thinks they can compete for a title would take any of those guys over Artest. I don't know why anyone would take Prince over Artest, sure a rebuilding team like Philly or NJ would take Gallo over him I get that.. And Butler was just terrible last year.

Orlando wouldn't take Deng, I think I can say that pretty surely. Boston, 50/50. LA and Miami would take Artest.

Ovratd1up
08-26-2010, 09:55 PM
out of one mouth chicago fans are always saying that drose does it with no help, out of their other mouth they say deng is a top 10 sf

Top 10 for his position, sure, but no second option on a good team. His defense is probably better than his offense, so that doesn't help a team with no offense.

Ovratd1up
08-26-2010, 09:57 PM
I was actually surprised at how good Artest's defensive numbers are when I looked at synergy. But I was also surprised at how horrible his offensive stats were.
So do you prefer Deng, who is above average efficient on both ends, or do you want a player who is very good on one end, and horrendous on the other?

Hey how did the Synergy numbers for Deng and Iguodala turn out?

Kakaroach
08-26-2010, 10:11 PM
Andrei Kirilenko, last year of his HUGE contract gotta prove himself so he can get that paper boi I love AK-47 but I don't think he's in top 10, not close.

NastyNas
08-26-2010, 10:11 PM
i went with ron

JermanJaysFan
08-26-2010, 11:44 PM
Disappointed that Butler isn't getting more love...

REALLYYYYY?
08-26-2010, 11:53 PM
deng still hasn't won one of these polls?

REALLYYYYY?
08-26-2010, 11:56 PM
Between Deng, Butler and Artest for me.

I went Deng with this one. Great defender, rebounder with a very consistent shot.

I think Butler could have more talent, but his down year last year persuades me against him here.

I'd love to hear the Gallinari case for all those voting him.

and great at not turning the ball over

aussiepiston
08-27-2010, 12:28 AM
For all the tools voting for Gallo

"REMEMBER this is based on who is the best player, not the player who has the potential to be the best."

Lloyd Christmas
08-27-2010, 01:40 AM
I think the best all around player is Caron. Better offense then Deng and Artest while still playing good defense.

Avenged
08-27-2010, 02:02 AM
Artest is a lock down defender so my vote goes to him. Also the fact that he's a Laker doesn't hurt.

Deng should win this one though and rightfully so.