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Hawkeye15
08-25-2010, 09:01 PM
I look around at all the PF rankings, discussions, debates, etc. Why is it that so many overlook Duncan at this point? He is a robot, and has the same efficiency now as he did his entire career, literally.

Check it out

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duncati01.html

Seriously look at this link, and his advanced efficiency. The man is a cyborg, and needs to be acknowledged as such.

What are your thoughts? What do you think of Duncan at this point in his career? And why do you think many fans perception of him has dropped a bit?

Niro
08-25-2010, 09:09 PM
duncan is not flashy thats why he is overlooked so often.
he is a hell of a player top 3 pf of all time at least

mark1125
08-25-2010, 09:11 PM
Because he doesn't have one hour specials, get in off court issues, spout off to the media, and act like a thug. It's the NBA. being a good player isn't enough.

Steelers23_06
08-25-2010, 09:12 PM
because he is going to starting to decline he put up the worst numbers of his career which are still dynamite number but just not what they used to be. he is 34 you cant expect him to still be the same. no matter what stats you try to show.

phlp_bj
08-25-2010, 09:13 PM
i think he gets under looked because of his old stature. he is a robot and does everything right. gets the usual pts-rb's. the other pf's though, such as dirk/pau/amare, is more flashy. they go out and have 25+ scoring games, sometimes even 30+ and they are constantly showcased on espn, etc.. duncan goes out night in and night out and does his job.

at this point, i personally see him as a virtual tie for 2nd place at PF. maybe he's 3rd since he is aging. i would place dirk, and pau in front of him. but pau and duncan are arguable. and duncan is one of the best pf's of all time in my opinion

Hawkeye15
08-25-2010, 09:14 PM
because he is going to starting to decline he put up the worst numbers of his career which are still dynamite number but just not what they used to be. he is 34 you cant expect him to still be the same. no matter what stats you try to show.

but until he shows decline, how can you predict it? He hasn't declined in the slightest. He is as good today as he was in 2000. Remember, he came into the league at 22, and only played one time internationally. He doesn't have the wear and tear of many of the 34 year olds in the league, and his game has never involved athletic ability.
My point is, he is overlooked. Which is sad at this point.

Is it because the Spurs are no longer legit title threats, therefore people blame the leader?

Just looking for thoughts

Steelers23_06
08-25-2010, 09:18 PM
no his ppg and rpg were the lowest of his career he still is great because he has fundamentals its his name lol...but he just isnt what he used to be. but a worn down TD is still elite. but he isnt the same that he used to be. and 34 is when you REALLY start to decline good thing they have a good big man rotation so he wont have to be overworked.

tcav701
08-25-2010, 09:19 PM
The NBA does it to him.

They have created an image that scoring in bunches, drives to the hoop and slam dunks are what make players superstars.

Hawkeye15
08-25-2010, 09:21 PM
no his ppg and rpg were the lowest of his career he still is great because he has fundamentals its his name lol...but he just isnt what he used to be. but a worn down TD is still elite. but he isnt the same that he used to be. and 34 is when you REALLY start to decline good thing they have a good big man rotation so he wont have to be overworked.

per game means nothing, you should understand this. And again, until he starts to show decline, there is no use in predicting it

tcav701
08-25-2010, 09:23 PM
per game means nothing, you should understand this. And again, until he starts to show decline, there is no use in predicting it

Only a small percentage of NBA fans and commentators realize that per game stats are not the best measure. Allstar considerations and MVP votes still come from per game stats. Per game stats are how about 95% of NBA fans judge players.

n83417
08-25-2010, 09:24 PM
no his ppg and rpg were the lowest of his career he still is great because he has fundamentals its his name lol...but he just isnt what he used to be. but a worn down TD is still elite. but he isnt the same that he used to be. and 34 is when you REALLY start to decline good thing they have a good big man rotation so he wont have to be overworked.

His MPG have been going down steadily, if you look at his "Per 36 Min" stats, they are remarkably consistent.

Hawkeye15
08-25-2010, 09:25 PM
Only a small percentage of NBA fans and commentators realize that per game stats are not the best measure. Allstar considerations and MVP votes still come from per game stats. Per game stats are how about 95% of NBA fans judge players.

that probably explains why only a portion of this site in general provides rational debates.
But that is the point of this thread. I provided evidence showing that Duncan hasn't fallen off at all really. So why is he getting overlooked?

tcav701
08-25-2010, 09:27 PM
[QUOTE=Hawkeye15;14691554]that probably explains why only a portion of this site in general provides rational debates.
But that is the point of this thread. I provided evidence showing that Duncan hasn't fallen off at all really. So why is he getting overlooked?[/QUOTE


Thats why about 5% of us still belive he is elite

ChiSox219
08-25-2010, 09:28 PM
duncan is not flashy thats why he is overlooked so often.

For sure, if you don't regularly make ESPN's Top 10 PSDers think you suck.



he is a hell of a player top 3 pf of all time at least

I'd say he's the #1 PF without question but that's just me. :)

Evolution23
08-25-2010, 09:30 PM
Hes a future Hall of Famer. No doubt about it but at this point of his career, he is on the decline because hes getting older. But he could still be the starting power forward on 25 or so teams.

Supreme LA
08-25-2010, 09:31 PM
I really think it has more to do with his team not really being in serious contention for a championship over the past few years. He still among the best in the league but Pau and Dirk have definitely moved passed him at this point.

tcav701
08-25-2010, 09:31 PM
Hes a future Hall of Famer. No doubt about it but at this point of his career, he is on the decline because hes getting older. But he could still be the starting power forward on 25 or so teams.

He would start at PF or C for EVERY team in the league

except maybe LA

lakers4sho
08-25-2010, 09:32 PM
uhh because people don't really look much deeper other than PPG?? :shrug:

n83417
08-25-2010, 09:33 PM
He would start at PF or C for EVERY team in the league

I was thinking the same thing

Steelers23_06
08-25-2010, 09:33 PM
because you guys look at stats for this and for that and over read the situation. you guys are pretty much syaing guys who actually played the game, and coaches, and commentators who do that for a living use the wrong stats. that doesnt make sense to me. i think that is a big way to look it is an average. it doesnt matter about that per 36 min and PER and all that b.s. an average of what they do is in fact the best way to look at it. it takes the total and divides it by the number of games how is an average a bad way to look at a player and if their average is going down from what their average used to be that isnt good. you guys dont understand what 13 seasons of playing 50-82 games a season does to you especially a big man who is constantly using his body. that is ALOT of wear and tear and idc what type of numbers you throw at me TD is going to decline. age happens no matter how good you are especially with big men it happens fast

ChiSox219
08-25-2010, 09:35 PM
Hes a future Hall of Famer. No doubt about it but at this point of his career, he is on the decline because hes getting older. But he could still be the starting power forward on 25 or so teams.

Get out of here

The only team Duncan might not start for today is the Lakers because they have Gasol.

Even if he is declining (there isn't much evidence to support this), he's still a top 10 player in the league today.

Evolution23
08-25-2010, 09:36 PM
He would start at PF or C for EVERY team in the league

except maybe LA

I think Dirk, Amare, and Bosh could make a better PF at this point in their career.

effen5
08-25-2010, 09:36 PM
If Duncan was in his prime, I would take him over any other player in the NBA.

Dead serious.

ChiSox219
08-25-2010, 09:37 PM
because you guys look at stats for this and for that and over read the situation. you guys are pretty much syaing guys who actually played the game, and coaches, and commentators who do that for a living use the wrong stats. that doesnt make sense to me. i think that is a big way to look it is an average. it doesnt matter about that per 36 min and PER and all that b.s. an average of what they do is in fact the best way to look at it. it takes the total and divides it by the number of games how is an average a bad way to look at a player and if their average is going down from what their average used to be that isnt good. you guys dont understand what 13 seasons of playing 50-82 games a season does to you especially a big man who is constantly using his body. that is ALOT of wear and tear and idc what type of numbers you throw at me TD is going to decline. age happens no matter how good you are especially with big men it happens fast

Jul 2010

tredigs
08-25-2010, 09:37 PM
I've talked about this some. Really, the only reason why his PPG and RPG even dipped were because POP is limiting his limits these days to save him more for the post-season. But, his per-36 minute averages are right on par with his best ever (which, coincidentally is right on par with his worst ever... he's a machine like that).

He's not a spring chicken, and his defense and lateral quickness has suffered slightly because the minutes are catching up to him a bit, but he's still an amazing player and the probably still the best overall PF in the league. And maybe even still has an argument for the best big, period - given his hugely superior basketball IQ to Dwight and just how battle tested he is in the playoffs. Dwight often gets into early foul trouble and that limits his minutes - also, he's turnover prone - not going to have those problems with Duncan, and you can basically fill him in before every game for 20/10/3 while anchoring the defense.

I'll take it to the next level - A better overall player than Kobe in the past decade, and I could hear an argument that he still is today. Simply the best to ever play his position (unlike our favorite Laker ; ).

tcav701
08-25-2010, 09:38 PM
Tim deserves nothing but praise. He is a multiple champion, career star for the team who drafted him and has no issues wether it be on or off the court and thats legal or character issues.

The league shoul be promoting this guy as an example. Way to many spoiled sweet sixteen brats taking over the NBA.

Hopefully they dont blow this chance again because they have the next gentleman-athlete waiting in Durant.

Wade>You
08-25-2010, 09:39 PM
Because everyone is tired of talking about "The Most Interesting Man In The World" bka Tim Duncan.

Evolution23
08-25-2010, 09:39 PM
Tim deserves nothing but praise. He is a multiple champion, career star for the team who drafted him and has no issues wether it be on or off the court and thats legal or character issues.

The league shoul be promoting this guy as an example. Way to many spoilde sweet sixteen brats taking over the NBA.

Hopefully they dont blow this chance again because they have the next gentleman-athlete waiting in Durant.

True Story

tcav701
08-25-2010, 09:39 PM
I think Dirk, Amare, and Bosh could make a better PF at this point in their career.

and Duncan would start at center for those teams.

Rndy
08-25-2010, 09:41 PM
because people are crazy? TS% 560 eFG% 519 TRB% 18.9 AST% 17.8 ORTG 116 DRTG 101. He had a great year. He had his best year since 2006. I can't respect anyone who uses ppg and other raw flawed stats as their argument.

Sadds The Gr8
08-25-2010, 09:43 PM
I look around at all the PF rankings, discussions, debates, etc. Why is it that so many overlook Duncan at this point? He is a robot, and has the same efficiency now as he did his entire career, literally.

Check it out

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duncati01.html

Seriously look at this link, and his advanced efficiency. The man is a cyborg, and needs to be acknowledged as such.

What are your thoughts? What do you think of Duncan at this point in his career? And why do you think many fans perception of him has dropped a bit?
His PPG and RPG aren't as high as they were before. And it does mean something because having more points and more rebounds per game makes you a stronger player if you have high efficiency like he's always had. That's why he's overlooked. He's still good though. And also, he plays in a smaller market.

Jewelz0376
08-25-2010, 09:45 PM
Honestly people have always been sleeping on Duncan...even when he was really doing his thing....He's top 10 all time and the greatest PF of all time, which makes people sleeping on him even crazier...

He's still good now, I'd rather have him starting a C on the Lakers over Bynum anyday (not long term I'm talking for like one season)...I'm sure most would but I'm just saying

DreamShaker
08-25-2010, 09:45 PM
He would start at PF or C for EVERY team in the league

except maybe LA

Oh they would send Bynum to the bench in a second if Duncan wanted to be the pf.

tcav701
08-25-2010, 09:47 PM
Oh they would send Bynum to the bench in a second if Duncan wanted to be the pf.

Well then that makes all 30 :clap:

Rndy
08-25-2010, 09:49 PM
His PPG and RPG aren't as high as they were before. And it does mean something because having more points and more rebounds per game makes you a stronger player if you have high efficiency like he's always had. That's why he's overlooked. He's still good though. And also, he plays in a smaller market.

Weird because his scoring is better and his rebounding is the exact same it's been for his career. Take a look at my post a page before.

smith&wesson
08-25-2010, 09:49 PM
no specific order

duncan
amare
kg
bosh
dirk
boozer
gasol
josh smith

My bad if i forgot any one but I think these are the best 4's in the league and Timmy D is top 3 for sure. He could still be the best in the league today. He is for sure the best powerforward of all time, and im not even a Tim Duncan fan. respect goes where its due.

BUT! I think ppl forget how good he is because he has slowed down in his pace. He is still effiecient and his numbers are good, but ppl are use to seeing a dominant Duncan in his prime that was winning championships when he was a bit yonger so naturally we asume that he has degressed (is that a word ?? i think you guys know what I mean. Mean while other 4's in the league are at theyre prime and get more attention. Somthing like old news vs new news even though Duncan is arguably still the best 4 in the nba today.

other guys make a good case to be the best too, like dirk, bosh , gasol, amare in my opinion.

krest213
08-25-2010, 09:50 PM
shHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHS
Ducan the best PF to ever Played the Game.
HOF

DreamShaker
08-25-2010, 09:50 PM
I think the decline of the Spurs in general is intertwined with the perception that Duncan is as well declining. Manu has absolutely declined...Parker has been injured...Bowen retired...and they have just been making desperation moves like the RJ trade to ignite something but it hasn't been working. Because this is happening most likely people just link it to Duncan's decline...

_KB24_
08-25-2010, 09:53 PM
Agree. Duncan is getting overlooked because as boring as the Spurs were at their peak, they are even boring now that they are not a top contender. He is not what the casual fan "wants" to see in terms of entertainment, but he is still racking up the stats. You described him well, as a robot, and no one wants to watch a robot.

Steelers23_06
08-25-2010, 09:54 PM
Jul 2010

what does that have to do with anything. i have been on PSD before just on a different name your mad ignorant. i just changed names because lebron changed numbers. but i have a valid point. the age 34 is a usually start of decline for big men shaq was 34 his 1st year in miami which was when he started declining, it was the year that david robinson had his injury and was never the same, kevin garnett is now 34 and definitely not the sam, charles was 34 in his 1st year with houston which was his last good year, hakeem had his 1st major injury of his careerwhen he was 34, patrick ewing played his last full season (aside from seattle where he did nothing) at the age of 34. do you see the pattern. im just saying age is huge for big men their bodies are exposed to a lot more.

JordansBulls
08-25-2010, 09:56 PM
I look around at all the PF rankings, discussions, debates, etc. Why is it that so many overlook Duncan at this point? He is a robot, and has the same efficiency now as he did his entire career, literally.

Check it out

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duncati01.html

Seriously look at this link, and his advanced efficiency. The man is a cyborg, and needs to be acknowledged as such.

What are your thoughts? What do you think of Duncan at this point in his career? And why do you think many fans perception of him has dropped a bit?


The bottom line is that your legacy is based on actual results.

Sustained excellence in the results.

We all know that though. Some people fall for the flash.

lakers4sho
08-25-2010, 09:57 PM
i have been on PSD before just on a different name

:pity:

Sadds The Gr8
08-25-2010, 09:58 PM
Weird because his scoring is better and his rebounding is the exact same it's been for his career. Take a look at my post a page before.

His scoring isn't better, because he doesn't have as high of a ppg. He may be more efficient, but he's not considered as dangerous because he doesn't go off and have those 30 pts, and 15 reb games like he used to. His efficiency is higher because he doesn't get as much looks/FGA as he used to.

tcav701
08-25-2010, 09:58 PM
what does that have to do with anything. i have been on PSD before just on a different name your mad ignorant. i just changed names because lebron changed numbers. but i have a valid point. the age 34 is a usually start of decline for big men shaq was 34 his 1st year in miami which was when he started declining, it was the year that david robinson had his injury and was never the same, kevin garnett is now 34 and definitely not the sam, charles was 34 in his 1st year with houston which was his last good year, hakeem had his 1st major injury of his careerwhen he was 34, patrick ewing played his last full season (aside from seattle where he did nothing) at the age of 34. do you see the pattern. im just saying age is huge for big men their bodies are exposed to a lot more.

None of these explain why Duncan was overlooked last year or the year before or the year before.

mohye
08-25-2010, 09:59 PM
You are lying o yourself if you say Duncan has not declined at all. He is not the same Duncan of 4 or 5 years ago. Being a Laker fan he used to torch us in the past and now hes not that big of a factor anymore. He has definitly declined from what he used to be. He still is one of the top 4 or 5 pfs in the league today though...

tredigs
08-25-2010, 10:00 PM
I think the decline of the Spurs in general is intertwined with the perception that Duncan is as well declining. Manu has absolutely declined...Parker has been injured...Bowen retired...and they have just been making desperation moves like the RJ trade to ignite something but it hasn't been working. Because this is happening most likely people just link it to Duncan's decline...

I would have to agree with this. Duncan has had a very mild decline over the past few seasons, but if the rest of the Spurs core was playing at peak, they would be still be contending for ships while Duncan would still be their best player and court general. As it is, they're just contending to get back into the WCF's, while he's still their best player and general.

Steelers23_06
08-25-2010, 10:01 PM
i said because age is starting to get to him he is still elite but just not the same TD and hasnt he alwys been overlooked :shrug: i think he is still elite just not the same and will never be the same TD but still elite but im saying expect a decline.

tredigs
08-25-2010, 10:04 PM
Take Duncan off the Spurs and put him in Bosh's spot on the Heat this season? Just hand over the trophy now.

tcav701
08-25-2010, 10:06 PM
I guess im trying to make a seperate point that is only half based on production.

TD should be marketed by the NBA as what an athlete should be. No one in the league now is more of a model gentleman athlete than Duncan.

Steelers23_06
08-25-2010, 10:06 PM
Take Duncan off the Spurs and put him in Bosh's spot on the Heat this season? Just hand over the trophy now.

you can say that with a lot of power fowards especially playing alongside 2 top 5 players in the league

Sadds The Gr8
08-25-2010, 10:12 PM
You are lying o yourself if you say Duncan has not declined at all. He is not the same Duncan of 4 or 5 years ago. Being a Laker fan he used to torch us in the past and now hes not that big of a factor anymore. He has definitly declined from what he used to be. He still is one of the top 4 or 5 pfs in the league today though...

exactly what i was trying to say.

JasonJohnHorn
08-25-2010, 10:15 PM
I honestly cannot think of a power forward I would rather have starting on my team than Duncan, and I would even go so far as to say that between James, Kobe and Duncan, if I had to start a franchise around one of the three in their prime, it would be Duncan. And even today, I think he is the third best player in the league behind LBJ and Bryant.

Steelers23_06
08-25-2010, 10:16 PM
but how come when i say that someone just says "JULY 2010"? im not like most heat fans i actaully state opinions based on facts not on lebron wade and bosh being "better than everything and everyone"

tcav701
08-25-2010, 10:18 PM
but how come when i say that someone just says "JULY 2010"? im not like most heat fans i actaully state opinions based on facts not on lebron wade and bosh being "better than everything and everyone"

You're a heat fan???

Weren't you a CLE fan last year?

Rndy
08-25-2010, 10:20 PM
His scoring isn't better, because he doesn't have as high of a ppg. He may be more efficient, but he's not considered as dangerous because he doesn't go off and have those 30 pts, and 15 reb games like he used to. His efficiency is higher because he doesn't get as much looks/FGA as he used to.

Valid point. But his rebounding% is right on par.

Steelers23_06
08-25-2010, 10:21 PM
I honestly cannot think of a power forward I would rather have starting on my team than Duncan, and I would even go so far as to say that between James, Kobe and Duncan, if I had to start a franchise around one of the three in their prime, it would be Duncan. And even today, I think he is the third best player in the league behind LBJ and Bryant.

whoa whoa you went little too far idk about that. lebron can do more than duncan. that is debatable. and kobe brings sooooo much to his team. i feel ike its 3 way tie imo. i wouldnt take any over the other.

Steelers23_06
08-25-2010, 10:24 PM
You're a heat fan???

Weren't you a CLE fan last year?

im a LeBron fan im not going to argue with simple minded people like you thats why i can talk about other teams and players without being a homer. and me being a lebron fan doesnt make me any less of a fan than someone that follows a team. im not going to argue with this. hate it or love it...it is what it is, what you think means about as much as the hair on my @$$

tredigs
08-25-2010, 10:27 PM
I honestly cannot think of a power forward I would rather have starting on my team than Duncan, and I would even go so far as to say that between James, Kobe and Duncan, if I had to start a franchise around one of the three in their prime, it would be Duncan. And even today, I think he is the third best player in the league behind LBJ and Bryant.

He's definitely not on Wade's level as far as positive production for your team goes, but adjusted for how weak the bigs are in this league compared to the wings, I could see the argument. Wade's also superior to Kobe, but I won't even bother opening that can of worms on this site. And it's tough to argue him over D. Howard at this point, but it is definitely a very real argument. Far as building the team in their primes? LBJ > Duncan > Kobe for me. Lbj and Duncan being in one tier, and Kobe being in another (with players like prime McGrady [tho' not in retrospect - but if you got them at 25], Wade, etc).

Anyway, yeah - Duncan's still a top 10 player in the league at the very least.

tcav701
08-25-2010, 10:27 PM
im a LeBron fan im not going to argue with simple minded people like you thats why i can talk about other teams and players without being a homer. and me being a lebron fan doesnt make me any less of a fan than someone that follows a team. im not going to argue with this. hate it or love it...it is what it is, what you think means about as much as the hair on my @$$

i was just curious because you said you're not like most heat fans.

but then i realized you were correct, because you are not a heat fan at all.

Steelers23_06
08-25-2010, 10:37 PM
i was just curious because you said you're not like most heat fans.

but then i realized you were correct, because you are not a heat fan at all.

ok when people say im a bandwagon or w.e. that doesnt make sense because i liked lebron since before draft day i just dimply followed him to his next team. its not my fault he wanted to make the legion of doom. and im a lebron fan and lebron is on the heat...so i think you know where this is going. like i will admit i dont have the same love for the team as a heat fan from before but i still will defend them and thats my squad now...so what do you get kicks from telling someone your not a REAL fan. because if so your going to be telling me that on every thread so you might as well get used to me because i aint going anywhere and that goes for EVERYONE else.

Swashcuff
08-25-2010, 10:38 PM
Because he doesn't have one hour specials, get in off court issues, spout off to the media, and act like a thug. It's the NBA. being a good player isn't enough.

much respect on the sig bro

PatsSoxKnicks
08-25-2010, 10:42 PM
While he did post one of his best years last year, his defense is slipping a bit. Just check out his defensive rating- over 100 for the last 2 years and the only 2 years of his career.

And if you check out his defensive rating in the playoffs the last 2 years, it's not that great.

He is still a good defender, but I think we can see his defense slipping a bit. However, his overall production is still very underrated. I would say thats because 95% of NBA fans don't know how to properly judge an NBA player.

Kashmir13579
08-25-2010, 10:49 PM
Because he doesn't have one hour specials, get in off court issues, spout off to the media, and act like a thug. It's the NBA. being a good player isn't enough.

thats why he has been overlooked his whole career, and i think he's not the most exciting player to watch (huge understatement) the guys a winner though, what can ya say.

Bruno
08-25-2010, 10:51 PM
I think it's just because he can't really take over key games in the playoffs anymore. The Spurs relied on him to do that for years and now that he can't they don't get over the hump. With Bowen leaving, they can no longer lock down the other teams best perimeter player- it all adds up against SA. They haven't been winning, so he hasn't been getting the same credit, plus he's well into his 30s.

It is pretty wild how his statistics haven't changed. TD- top 10 ever.

tcav701
08-25-2010, 10:57 PM
ok when people say im a bandwagon or w.e. that doesnt make sense because i liked lebron since before draft day i just dimply followed him to his next team. its not my fault he wanted to make the legion of doom. and im a lebron fan and lebron is on the heat...so i think you know where this is going. like i will admit i dont have the same love for the team as a heat fan from before but i still will defend them and thats my squad now...so what do you get kicks from telling someone your not a REAL fan. because if so your going to be telling me that on every thread so you might as well get used to me because i aint going anywhere and that goes for EVERYONE else.

You're a LeBron fan i get it. Hell, my girlfriend would route for me if i switched teams too.

Its the act that gets me. you got D-Wade in ur sig talking about 305 like you're from Miami. When I know you looked up the area code on google to make it look like you're part of the heat faithful.

Just callin them like I see them.

DreamShaker
08-25-2010, 10:58 PM
you can say that with a lot of power fowards especially playing alongside 2 top 5 players in the league

Duncan is that defensive anchor that the Heat wish they had though...

DreamShaker
08-25-2010, 11:01 PM
While he did post one of his best years last year, his defense is slipping a bit. Just check out his defensive rating- over 100 for the last 2 years and the only 2 years of his career.

And if you check out his defensive rating in the playoffs the last 2 years, it's not that great.

He is still a good defender, but I think we can see his defense slipping a bit. However, his overall production is still very underrated. I would say thats because 95% of NBA fans don't know how to properly judge an NBA player.

That might have to do with the Spurs overall team defense as well though. He is slower...but taking a Bruce Bowen off the team is an underrated wrinkle in that argument...

tredigs
08-25-2010, 11:06 PM
^Dream's right. Offensive rating is something that is a personal stat, but D-Rating is as much about your team as it is your own production. That said, just watching the man play, you can tell his lateral quickness isn't quite what it used to be, and he doesn't have the hop that he used to. But hey, neither does Kobe (and he doesn't even guard the top wings anymore), but he's still considered all league defensive first team (i'll let you decide if that's worthy or not...). So there ya go.

PatsSoxKnicks
08-25-2010, 11:26 PM
^Dream's right. Offensive rating is something that is a personal stat, but D-Rating is as much about your team as it is your own production. That said, just watching the man play, you can tell his lateral quickness isn't quite what it used to be, and he doesn't have the hop that he used to. But hey, neither does Kobe (and he doesn't even guard the top wings anymore), but he's still considered all league defensive first team (i'll let you decide if that's worthy or not...). So there ya go.

Exactly. I do think his defense is still slipping. I'm sure you watched that Suns Spurs series, and from what I saw in that series, he wasn't that dominant defensive presence he used to be. In fact, I hardly recognized him defensively.

Now I know not having Bowen is going to hurt the Spurs defense but like you said, he's lost some of his lateral quickness which you can see hurts his defense.

As far as Kobe, I don't know why he's getting defensive first teams over Wade...

nuggetsyankees
08-25-2010, 11:31 PM
cause he's old

dodie53
08-25-2010, 11:33 PM
i knew it!
duncan is a robot!
sometimes he short circuits and his eyes pop out
hehe

Steelers23_06
08-26-2010, 02:40 AM
You're a LeBron fan i get it. Hell, my girlfriend would route for me if i switched teams too.

Its the act that gets me. you got D-Wade in ur sig talking about 305 like you're from Miami. When I know you looked up the area code on google to make it look like you're part of the heat faithful.

Just callin them like I see them.

oh yeah I forgot you know me personally. I saw lebron play his rookie season in miami because I was born there and have family there.I dont have to call them or anything...lol this guy. so id rather root for a team that I have a personal connection with then just a team that my favorite player plays for. ive seen him playin miami, boston multiple times, atlanta but not once cleveland. if I was a bandwagon wouldn't it be easy to just go for the winningest franchise in the nba which happens to be my home team in the celtics but season after season I follow lebron win or lose so again your comments dont offend me

Patman
08-26-2010, 04:32 AM
Duncan has declined even though the Stats on offense do not show it, and his decline is really small. On offense the biggest defference i saw was that he doesn't draw Doubles as frequently, and you most of the time do not get the Feeling that he just can take over. He adjusted his Game a bit to counter the loss of speed and hops.

On defense you just see that he lacks the laterall Quickness to be the defender he was Seasons ago. But to put that into perspective, There was a Article (Truehoop) i think during the Playoffs against the Suns, where Duncans defense was called a liability on D, because he couldn't guard the Nash / Amare P&R whitout help (something i think no player today can do). But Duncan was such a defensive force that he could do stuff like that.

KnicksGuard
08-26-2010, 08:44 AM
No PF other than the "GREATS" on the old Lakers,Celtics teams have had more Success.

stejay
08-26-2010, 08:52 AM
I would say because he is a quiet guy, and not one that is know for flashy plays, badboy reputation, attutude or trash talking. He gets to playing, and leaves. That is why he gets overlooked, IMO

Steelers23_06
08-26-2010, 09:14 AM
I would say because he is a quiet guy, and not one that is know for flashy plays, badboy reputation, attutude or trash talking. He gets to playing, and leaves. That is why he gets overlooked, IMO

yeah i agree. he doesnt really talk to the media. i heard on the court he talks alot though. but he's not one that is going to give the media something to talk about like KG, shaq, even a.i. stays more relevant andhe's not even on a team. so since he's not in the media it kind of overshadows his play to the average fan. but any true baller has to respect his game. but as i said before even as great as he is nobody is too good to age.

BOSTON617
08-26-2010, 09:15 AM
you can say the same tihng about kevin garnett

Joshtd1
08-26-2010, 09:23 AM
Duncan has aged, but the only thing hes really lost is his speed, and he was neverly overly quick to begin with. He put up the worst numbers of his career last year..but he also played the lowest total mins of his career too.

If Duncan were to play 35-36 mins a game he would be a 20-10 player, guarenteed. Why make him play all those minutes when we have young guys in Blair and Splitter to take the load off and make him more preserved for the playoffs? His post game is still amazing, he can shoot, still a good defender. He might not be able to neccessarily take a game over as often as he used to, but he can still do it.

Steelers23_06
08-26-2010, 09:30 AM
you can say the same tihng about kevin garnett

not so much kg isnt a negative influence by any means but at the same time he voices his opinion. you guarantee after a playoff game kg is going to give you an earful but you cant say the same for TD. KG is energy is like a synonym for energy on and off the court thats something he brings to the celtics you can hear him doing the chant pre-game hitting his head against the goal, he did the ritual before lebron just lebron was smart and marketed off it lol. but i think KG and TD are complete opposites in that aspect the only thing that they share is respect for the game and you have to love that.

Steelers23_06
08-26-2010, 09:32 AM
Duncan has aged, but the only thing hes really lost is his speed, and he was neverly overly quick to begin with. He put up the worst numbers of his career last year..but he also played the lowest total mins of his career too.

If Duncan were to play 35-36 mins a game he would be a 20-10 player, guarenteed. Why make him play all those minutes when we have young guys in Blair and Splitter to take the load off and make him more preserved for the playoffs? His post game is still amazing, he can shoot, still a good defender. He might not be able to neccessarily take a game over as often as he used to, but he can still do it.

yeah i agree 100% with that i think he is going to do with splitter what the admiral did to him. take him under his wing you know.

BOSTON617
08-26-2010, 09:39 AM
not so much kg isnt a negative influence by any means but at the same time he voices his opinion. you guarantee after a playoff game kg is going to give you an earful but you cant say the same for TD. KG is energy is like a synonym for energy on and off the court thats something he brings to the celtics you can hear him doing the chant pre-game hitting his head against the goal, he did the ritual before lebron just lebron was smart and marketed off it lol. but i think KG and TD are complete opposites in that aspect the only thing that they share is respect for the game and you have to love that.

ya thats my point i jsut think hes under ranked like tim duncan on yahoo is ranked 2.. kg is ranked 8 i feel kg is top 5 pf not to be a homer like kg has the best defense and plays b+ offense i mean obv the dude isnt what he use to be but neither is duncan..... so i would rank kg and duncan the same thats how i personally feel

IndyRealist
08-26-2010, 09:56 AM
Is he still better than 90% of players in the league? Yes, that's why he's ranked #2. But Gasol is younger and on a championship team going for a three-peat. Every year for now on they will predict Duncan's numbers to drop off. His team is imploding. Trade rumors are around Parker, rumors he wants to go to NYC. They haven't had the supporting cast needed since they traded Bruce Bowen. Winning counts for a lot.

mikantsass
08-26-2010, 09:58 AM
He is on the back 9 of his career, but in my eyes he is still the best PF in the league

Steelers23_06
08-26-2010, 09:59 AM
ya thats my point i jsut think hes under ranked like tim duncan on yahoo is ranked 2.. kg is ranked 8 i feel kg is top 5 pf not to be a homer like kg has the best defense and plays b+ offense i mean obv the dude isnt what he use to be but neither is duncan..... so i would rank kg and duncan the same thats how i personally feel

i feel you because come playoff time hes always a force. but idk times change and out with the old and in with the new but its crazy because shaq, kg, td, a.i., tmac etc are all players i grew up watching and they are just slowly dwindling away im gonna go nuts when kobe and lebron retire.

BOSTON617
08-26-2010, 10:04 AM
i feel you because come playoff time hes always a force. but idk times change and out with the old and in with the new but its crazy because shaq, kg, td, a.i., tmac etc are all players i grew up watching and they are just slowly dwindling away im gonna go nuts when kobe and lebron retire.

ya :( i hate watching people i grew up with and loved start getting old lol but your right kg is a whole dif player in the playoffs

sep11ie
08-26-2010, 10:11 AM
2 words... Joey. Crawford.

Hawkeye15
08-26-2010, 02:19 PM
you can say the same tihng about kevin garnett

no, KG has statistical evidence showing his decline. Duncan does not yet

edison_yia
08-26-2010, 02:31 PM
because he's quiet and sometimes he cant really run and he plays for the spurs

DeShaun Brown
08-26-2010, 02:31 PM
no his ppg and rpg were the lowest of his career he still is great because he has fundamentals its his name lol...but he just isnt what he used to be. but a worn down TD is still elite. but he isnt the same that he used to be. and 34 is when you REALLY start to decline good thing they have a good big man rotation so he wont have to be overworked.

This

Mochalman
08-26-2010, 02:43 PM
Duncan should go down as the best PF of all time.

nrwskinny
08-26-2010, 02:54 PM
Let the Spurs cut Duncan--EVERY one of you Spurs-Duncan haters will be making a case for your team to pick him up....
Duncan is the Best Power Forward of All-Time- hands down...

jackdawson
08-26-2010, 03:03 PM
Duncan is still the most efficient PF in the league. And he is the greatest PF of all time without a doubt.

llemon
08-26-2010, 03:11 PM
I look around at all the PF rankings, discussions, debates, etc. Why is it that so many overlook Duncan at this point? He is a robot, and has the same efficiency now as he did his entire career, literally.

Check it out

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duncati01.html

Seriously look at this link, and his advanced efficiency. The man is a cyborg, and needs to be acknowledged as such.

What are your thoughts? What do you think of Duncan at this point in his career? And why do you think many fans perception of him has dropped a bit?

You don't see that Duncan has fallen of some in the last two seasons?

And he is the best PF in NBA history.

But that shouldn't change how he is viewed as the player he is right now.

Hawkeye15
08-26-2010, 03:24 PM
You don't see that Duncan has fallen of some in the last two seasons?

And he is the best PF in NBA history.

But that shouldn't change how he is viewed as the player he is right now.

not efficiency wise. Pops is resting him with the purpose of playing him in the playoffs with less minutes on his body. There is no doubt he can't sustain 37 mpg for 82 games plus playoffs anymore, but his overall game and level of efficiency are as good now as it was 10 years ago is my point. Yet he gets overlooked by players he is still better than.

DKGiants
08-26-2010, 03:35 PM
but until he shows decline, how can you predict it? He hasn't declined in the slightest. He is as good today as he was in 2000. Remember, he came into the league at 22, and only played one time internationally. He doesn't have the wear and tear of many of the 34 year olds in the league, and his game has never involved athletic ability.
My point is, he is overlooked. Which is sad at this point.

Is it because the Spurs are no longer legit title threats, therefore people blame the leader?

Just looking for thoughts

NEVER is ANYONE gonna blame Duncan for anything. hes the classiest player in the league and always has been just like Derek Jeter is in Baseball. :D accept it.. he did what noone in the NBA could do and thats win 4 championships basically alone. Lebron couldnt win alone :facepalm: Duncans team wasnt ever an amazing team... maybe when they had Robinson yea. but the 2 role players he's had is Parker and Ginobli. i dont think parker was ever considered a top PG in the league and to me Ginobli is a very good player and very underrated but none of these two players are considered real great players like what Kobe's had to win. Eventhough they gave Kobe the player of the decade which i think is bs.. it shouldve went to Duncan then Shaq.

Steelers23_06
08-26-2010, 03:55 PM
NEVER is ANYONE gonna blame Duncan for anything. hes the classiest player in the league and always has been just like Derek Jeter is in Baseball. :D accept it.. he did what noone in the NBA could do and thats win 4 championships basically alone. Lebron couldnt win alone :facepalm: Duncans team wasnt ever an amazing team... maybe when they had Robinson yea. but the 2 role players he's had is Parker and Ginobli. i dont think parker was ever considered a top PG in the league and to me Ginobli is a very good player and very underrated but none of these two players are considered real great players like what Kobe's had to win. Eventhough they gave Kobe the player of the decade which i think is bs.. it shouldve went to Duncan then Shaq.

WHOA WHOA WHOA fam he has had good teams in every finals he has been in. david robinson wasnt good, parker wasnt good, ginobili wasnt good, bowen wasnt one of the best defenders of all time?...idk bro i think this is going to piss a lot of PSD'ers off.

Chronz
08-26-2010, 04:03 PM
I found it funny that theres a thread labeled Duncan ranked 2nd and a Duncan gets overlooked thread on the same page.

llemon
08-26-2010, 04:49 PM
not efficiency wise. Pops is resting him with the purpose of playing him in the playoffs with less minutes on his body. There is no doubt he can't sustain 37 mpg for 82 games plus playoffs anymore, but his overall game and level of efficiency are as good now as it was 10 years ago is my point. Yet he gets overlooked by players he is still better than.

The fact that he has to play less minutes to maintain the same efficiency backs my point.

His game has declined.

And, IMO, anyone that has watched Timmy on a consistant basis over the last two seasons should have noticed that decline.

And, again, I am a big fan of Mr. Duncan, and believe him to be a class act, except for all his whining to the officials.

DKGiants
08-27-2010, 01:39 AM
WHOA WHOA WHOA fam he has had good teams in every finals he has been in. david robinson wasnt good, parker wasnt good, ginobili wasnt good, bowen wasnt one of the best defenders of all time?...idk bro i think this is going to piss a lot of PSD'ers off.

yo god first off i never said Robinson, Parker and Ginobli werent good. im a Knicks fan btw. Parker was never a top 3 pg in the NBA IMO. Ginobili was always one of my favorite players cuz hes very underrated and always has been but to me hes dirty but not considered a top 20-30 player from everyone else's p.o.v. throughout all those championship wins..

Im just saying how great Duncan is. because if you add any other player from the NBA from the last 11 years on the Spurs (maybe besides Shaq) and remove Duncan.. none of those players would win as many championships as Duncan did with the Spurs, maybe not even 1(besides Shaq?) Wish Shaq and Duncan would've teamed up when Shaq left the Lakers cuz that woulda been a DYNASTY that would've just repeated year after year. I have a lot of respect for the Spurs even though I should hate them for losing to them in the 99' Finals :mad: