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Mile High Champ
08-24-2010, 09:15 AM
Hey guys, Some of you may remember that for the last two years I have conducted a poll at the end of the season that had PSD users vote for the top 10 players at each position. Its is now that time to vote! I would like to start this up once more considering the NBA season is now over and we can get to this discussion since lots has changed since the start of last season. Please TRY AND VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER AND DON'T BE A HOMER. I will leave the poll open for one day and than we can carry on to the next best player at that position. I will add more players after each round. I have also included the results of those last 2 years so everyone can see how much things have changed...Enjoy.


REMEMBER this is based on who is the best player, not the player who has the potential to be the best.

SF Rankings DONT FORGET TO VOTE!!

1) Lebron James
2) Kevin Durant
3) Carmelo Anthony
4) Paul Pierce
5) Danny Granger
6) Gerald Wallace
7)
8)
9)
10)




2009 Off Season SF Rankings

1) Lebron James
2) Carmelo Anthony
3) Kevin Durant
4) Paul Pierce
5) Danny Granger
6) Andre Iguodala
7) Caron Butler
8) Hedo Turkoglu
9) Ron Artest
10) Stephen Jackson

2008 Off-Season SF rankings

1) Lebron James
2) Paul Pierce
3) Carmelo Anthony
4) Caron Butler
5) Ron Artest
6) Shawn Marion
7) Josh Smith
8) Richard Jefferson
9) Lamar Odom
10) Tayshaun Prince

Basketash
08-24-2010, 09:18 AM
Am i blind, or is there's no pool?

Edit: Oh there it is :D

Mile High Champ
08-24-2010, 09:18 AM
#7 is up.... Now it gets interesting...

Purch
08-24-2010, 09:18 AM
Iggy > Gay

greek miami hea
08-24-2010, 09:20 AM
its got to be iguodala

NBA-GMaster
08-24-2010, 09:20 AM
Iggy!!

Mile High Champ
08-24-2010, 09:21 AM
Am i blind, or is there's no pool?

Edit: Oh there it is :D


Patience.. it takes a few minutes to create and put up..

Basketash
08-24-2010, 09:21 AM
Igoudala

davids22
08-24-2010, 09:21 AM
Here come the Knicks homers on Danny G

BTW, whoever makes these polls. WHERE IS JOHN SALMONS??? He wasn't in your SG poll and someone told me he'll probably be in the SF poll, which he's not.

dolfan720
08-24-2010, 09:22 AM
Iggy>gay

Hawkeye15
08-24-2010, 09:22 AM
IMO, its Deng vs Iggy here. Here are their comparisons

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=denglu01&y1=2010&p2=iguodan01&y2=2010

dolfan720
08-24-2010, 09:22 AM
Here come the Knicks homers on Danny G

BTW, whoever makes these polls. WHERE IS JOHN SALMONS??? He wasn't in your SG poll and someone told me he'll probably be in the SF poll, which he's not.

he was in the SG poll

Basketash
08-24-2010, 09:23 AM
Patience.. it takes a few minutes to create and put up..

Sorry, my bad

Purch
08-24-2010, 09:24 AM
IMO, its Deng vs Iggy here. Here are their comparisons

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=denglu01&y1=2010&p2=iguodan01&y2=2010

Gay > Deng

/Claim

Hawkeye15
08-24-2010, 09:25 AM
This should provide a good debate. I am going Deng here, simply because he is a contributor on a playoff team.
Iggy is a far better distributor, but he turns it over a bit more.
They are very equal, can't go wrong with either

bigsams50
08-24-2010, 09:27 AM
Iggy.

Mile High Champ
08-24-2010, 09:28 AM
I went with Iggy. I believe him and Deng were about on par last season. The real factor that comes in for me is this coming season. Deng is likely to have a more limited role in the offense with the addition of Boozer and I believe Iggy will be counted on more this season than ever before. This is his make or break year as a possible go to guy.

pebloemer
08-24-2010, 09:30 AM
BTW, whoever makes these polls. WHERE IS JOHN SALMONS??? He wasn't in your SG poll and someone told me he'll probably be in the SF poll, which he's not.


I had suggested that he could be in the SF poll due to his absence in the SG poll. The SG poll after we had that discussion included him, he just never got voted in for the last few SG spots.

DCSportsIsPain
08-24-2010, 09:33 AM
I am going Caron Butler here just because I am a hater.

Ovratd1up
08-24-2010, 09:35 AM
Iguodala is better than Gay, but that doesn't matter at the moment because Deng is the best SF at the moment.

Also, Batum should probably be on the poll, especially if the likes of Trevor Ariza and Danilo Gallinari are.

Ovratd1up
08-24-2010, 09:40 AM
I went with Iggy. I believe him and Deng were about on par last season. The real factor that comes in for me is this coming season. Deng is likely to have a more limited role in the offense with the addition of Boozer and I believe Iggy will be counted on more this season than ever before. This is his make or break year as a possible go to guy.

I wouldn't describe it that way. Deng is a player that is fine on his own, but to really play like he has the potential to, he needs to play under a system. With real plays. He hasn't had that the past two years with Vinny, but he played great under Skiles' system. He's also improved his three point shooting some and Thibodeau stated he'd have him take more corner threes, and also said that he thinks he's been mal used. He's right, he has. Deng might not get the type of shot attempts he got last year, and might see a reduction in minutes too (and hopefully a reduction in injuries because of it) but his efficiency should go way up this year, especially playing off Boozer as well as Rose.

Antipod
08-24-2010, 09:45 AM
Rudy Gay, but Iggy already has a good advantage

Khalifa21
08-24-2010, 09:52 AM
I'd definitely give this one to Iggy... He does everything Gay does (apart from shoot the three well) and is a better rebounder, better playmaker and better defender.

BOSTON617
08-24-2010, 09:54 AM
i voted for rudy gay!

tromo9
08-24-2010, 09:56 AM
iggyyyyyyyyy

sunnydayin'zona
08-24-2010, 09:58 AM
i love me some iggy

Brooklyn Mets
08-24-2010, 10:12 AM
Gay or Iggy

Mile High Champ
08-24-2010, 10:34 AM
It would be nice if ppl said a reason why they were picking a player.

Ovratd1up
08-24-2010, 10:46 AM
It would be nice if ppl said a reason why they were picking a player.

Have you been watching Team USA?
Gay and Iggy always have great dunks!

Storch
08-24-2010, 10:48 AM
IMO, its Deng vs Iggy here. Here are their comparisons

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=denglu01&y1=2010&p2=iguodan01&y2=2010

Deng has more blocks than Iggy?! Wow, I learned something new today. Nice. :clap: (I dont really watch the bulls much)

Chi-Town Sports
08-24-2010, 10:49 AM
Iggy, he is a go to guy. Deng is more of a player that needs to be set up. Iggy creates plays for himself and others that is why i voted for him.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
08-24-2010, 10:50 AM
gay

Niro
08-24-2010, 10:51 AM
its between iggy and gay...i take iggy

Avenged
08-24-2010, 10:59 AM
I'm not sold on any of the guys being discussed but someone has to go..

I'm going with Iggy as well. He's the man in Philly and although he's not a real good one, it's still his.

Gay has more to prove in this league, he has a lot of talent and potential for improvement.

J-Relo
08-24-2010, 10:59 AM
the real question is who is gonna be number 10?

alencp3
08-24-2010, 11:33 AM
7.Iggy
8.Gay
9.Deng
10.Kirilenko when healthy IMO

td0tsfinest
08-24-2010, 11:37 AM
I'm going with Iggy on this one. I've always liked his game. He's an underrated distributor.

Rivera
08-24-2010, 11:43 AM
ok im gonna repost what i posted yesterday for today:

rudy and iggy have better true shooting percentages

deng .531
rudy .535
iggy .535

rudy and iggy have better efficent field goal %'s
deng .482
rudy .491
iggy .485

rudy and iggy have better player efficency ratings

deng 16.1
rudy 16.2
iggy 17.8

rudy and iggy have better offensive and defensive raitings

deng offensive 106 defensive 106
rudy offensive 109 defensive 110
iggy offensive 108 defensive 109

rudy and iggy have better win shares

deng 5.9
rudy 6.4
iggy 6.7


i just turned into HAWKEYE on u MOFO's!!!


this is between iggy and rudy....iggy reminds me so much of marion in the way that u dont need to draw up a play in the whole game for iggy and he will still get u 18 ppg he does a lil of everything.......i think rudys game is so smoootthh and ive seen him since uconn livin up here so im a lil more biased towards rudy and he can flat out ball


rudy for a slight margin in my book......n honestly if i had a choice to pick for my team of these 3 players i would pick rudy

xM1GSx
08-24-2010, 11:44 AM
ill go with gay

younggunn113
08-24-2010, 11:51 AM
Why is Caron Butler getting no love? He's a great defender, he's tough as nails and he can get to the rim. I take him out of all the players left here. Knock me with your TSP and advanced statistics, but he put up 2.5 more points in 5 less minutes and shoots a MUCH higher FT percentage than Iggy. As for Rudy his numbers are almost identical, with the exception of FG percentage (Gay: 46.6 Butler: 43.4) and FT percentage (Butler: 92.6 and Gay 75.2).

Johann
08-24-2010, 11:52 AM
Wheres josh ssmith!!?!?!?!??!?!??!?!?!??!?!

SugeKnight
08-24-2010, 11:52 AM
iggy then gay. 9 and 10 are a toss up

Hawkeye15
08-24-2010, 11:53 AM
ok im gonna repost what i posted yesterday for today:

rudy and iggy have better true shooting percentages

deng .531
rudy .535
iggy .535

rudy and iggy have better efficent field goal %'s
deng .482
rudy .491
iggy .485

rudy and iggy have better player efficency ratings

deng 16.1
rudy 16.2
iggy 17.8

rudy and iggy have better offensive and defensive raitings

deng offensive 106 defensive 106
rudy offensive 109 defensive 110
iggy offensive 108 defensive 109

rudy and iggy have better win shares

deng 5.9
rudy 6.4
iggy 6.7


i just turned into HAWKEYE on u MOFO's!!!


this is between iggy and rudy....iggy reminds me so much of marion in the way that u dont need to draw up a play in the whole game for iggy and he will still get u 18 ppg he does a lil of everything.......i think rudys game is so smoootthh and ive seen him since uconn livin up here so im a lil more biased towards rudy and he can flat out ball


rudy for a slight margin in my book......n honestly if i had a choice to pick for my team of these 3 players i would pick rudy

Defensive ratings don't have much weight imo. They are more a relection of team play.
I think Rudy is the most talented of all that's left. But part of me can't get over the fact that there are times when I am watching Memphis, and he just goes into a complete idiotic meltdown for a few plays. Seriously, there are times I wonder what on earth he is thinking

Hawkeye15
08-24-2010, 11:54 AM
Wheres josh ssmith!!?!?!?!??!?!??!?!?!??!?!

PF poll

Hawkeye15
08-24-2010, 11:55 AM
Why is Caron Butler getting no love? He's a great defender, he's tough as nails and he can get to the rim. I take him out of all the players left here. Knock me with your TSP and advanced statistics, but he put up 2.5 more points in 5 less minutes and shoots a MUCH higher FT percentage than Iggy. As for Rudy his numbers are almost identical, with the exception of FG percentage (Gay: 46.6 Butler: 43.4) and FT percentage (Butler: 92.6 and Gay 75.2).

Butler's defense has always been slightly overrated imo. Offensively, Butler hasn't really been effective the past two seasons. Not to the point that he belongs in the conversation for #7-9

Rivera
08-24-2010, 12:06 PM
Defensive ratings don't have much weight imo. They are more a relection of team play.
I think Rudy is the most talented of all that's left. But part of me can't get over the fact that there are times when I am watching Memphis, and he just goes into a complete idiotic meltdown for a few plays. Seriously, there are times I wonder what on earth he is thinking

lmao i feel u he had those "moments" playing for Uconn but dude is a beast he is an underrated defender ppl dont realize he can actually defend and he was a part of that memphis grizzlies.....HEAR THAT PEOPLE MEMPHIS GRIZZLIES REVIVAL and if u HELP revive them u gotta get some love


damn hawkeye u werent impressed wit my stats? i failed you!

DaBUU
08-24-2010, 12:06 PM
Gay>Deng>Iggy

Klivlend
08-24-2010, 12:10 PM
Someone seriously voted for Corey Maggettte? At the #7 spot?

Hawkeye15
08-24-2010, 12:10 PM
lmao i feel u he had those "moments" playing for Uconn but dude is a beast he is an underrated defender ppl dont realize he can actually defend and he was a part of that memphis grizzlies.....HEAR THAT PEOPLE MEMPHIS GRIZZLIES REVIVAL and if u HELP revive them u gotta get some love


damn hawkeye u werent impressed wit my stats? i failed you!

nah, I always like it when I at least help turn people into viewing stats. I appreciate the shout out haha

ALL_i-Do_is-Win
08-24-2010, 12:33 PM
deng is better then iggy and younger ......
gay has better stats then deng but he plays more mins and is # 1 or 2 option depending on what they are doing

so as i see it gay < or = deng < iggy

Rivera
08-24-2010, 12:35 PM
deng is better then iggy and younger ......
gay has better stats then deng but he plays more mins and is # 1 or 2 option depending on what they are doing

so as i see it gay < or = deng < iggy

ummm so who was the bulls #2 option last year???

wasnt it deng???


gay > deng........any day of the week.....and i already posted stats y

ALL_i-Do_is-Win
08-24-2010, 12:39 PM
ummm so who was the bulls #2 option last year???

wasnt it deng???


gay > deng........any day of the week.....and i already posted stats y

our offense was never run though deng even when rose was out
he is not a one on one player
he doesn't have the ball in his hands to create
he is a system player
watch him this year

i understand why you take gay
he is younger and more athletic
but you gotta look @ the mins and team he played for 2
2 mins more and more shots

ChiSox219
08-24-2010, 12:41 PM
ummm so who was the bulls #2 option last year???

wasnt it deng???


gay > deng........any day of the week.....and i already posted stats y

And I already debunked you post.


It's between Iguodala and Deng and who you choose depends on the type of style you want to play and the roster you have.

smith&wesson
08-24-2010, 12:44 PM
iggy, gay, >>>>>>>>>>>gerald wallace by far.
lets not forget how injury prone wallace is.

Rivera
08-24-2010, 12:51 PM
our offense was never run though deng even when rose was out
he is not a one on one player
he doesn't have the ball in his hands to create
he is a system player
watch him this year

i understand why you take gay
he is younger and more athletic
but you gotta look @ the mins and team he played for 2
2 mins more and more shots

if deng cant create offense on his own....and he needs a system to be successful how is he better than iggy or gay?


And I already debunked you post.


It's between Iguodala and Deng and who you choose depends on the type of style you want to play and the roster you have.

when where? not neva! u just skewed the #'s to fit ur argument i can do that!

gay can play any style....he played more half court offense with uconn and he has the athletisim to run n gun....gay is a stud

ALL_i-Do_is-Win
08-24-2010, 12:54 PM
if deng cant create offense on his own....and he needs a system to be successful how is he better than iggy or gay?



when where? not neva! u just skewed the #'s to fit ur argument i can do that!

gay can play any style....he played more half court offense with uconn and he has the athletisim to run n gun....gay is a stud

no one is asking deng to be # 2 or # 1 option
he is perfect # 3 option for bulls

and he can create offense he is just no as good as gay at it

you gotta look @ other things too
defense
deng is a good defender for sf
gay could care less about defese....
deng is a very good rebounder...
gay not rly...

gay does other things better
he is taller and longer 2...

NYMetros
08-24-2010, 12:55 PM
Iguodala. He plays a bigger role in his offense than Gay does. Better passer, better rebounder, about the same scoring wise, Iggy gets the edge.

Rivera
08-24-2010, 01:11 PM
no one is asking deng to be # 2 or # 1 option
he is perfect # 3 option for bulls

and he can create offense he is just no as good as gay at it

you gotta look @ other things too
defense
deng is a good defender for sf
gay could care less about defese....
deng is a very good rebounder...
gay not rly...

gay does other things better
he is taller and longer 2...

the only thing wrong with that statement is GAY is a better defender than Deng chech out my defensive raitings...gay 110...deng 106

and YES deng does average more rebounds than gay but to say gay is not really a good rebounder is throwing something at the wall and hoping it sticks gay average 6 boards a game last year which is pretty damn good espec for someone whos always looking for the fast break!


where are my GAY rights activist people!!! Support GAY(s)!

Baller1
08-24-2010, 01:15 PM
Artest.

ALL_i-Do_is-Win
08-24-2010, 01:22 PM
the only thing wrong with that statement is GAY is a better defender than Deng chech out my defensive raitings...gay 110...deng 106

and YES deng does average more rebounds than gay but to say gay is not really a good rebounder is throwing something at the wall and hoping it sticks gay average 6 boards a game last year which is pretty damn good espec for someone whos always looking for the fast break!


where are my GAY rights activist people!!! Support GAY(s)!

the higher defensive rating means you give more point up per possession
gay gives up 110 per 100
deng gives up 106 per 100

deng is one of the better defenders

for example good defender
lbj 102
shane battier 104
ron artest 106
g wallce 103

and deng def win share 3.4
compared to gay 2.4
... so your wrong deng goes everything better then gay except for scoring
deng even avg more assist so you can't even argue gay is better playmaker..

now that i think about it deng's stats across board is better then gay except for scoring while playing 2 mins less

deng is better player should be ranked 8

Rivera
08-24-2010, 01:32 PM
the higher defensive rating means you give more point up per possession
gay gives up 110 per 100
deng gives up 106 per 100

deng is one of the better defenders

for example good defender
lbj 102
shane battier 104
ron artest 106
g wallce 103

and deng def win share 3.4
compared to gay 2.4
... so your wrong deng goes everything better then gay except for scoring
deng even avg more assist so you can't even argue gay is better playmaker..

now that i think about it deng's stats across board is better then gay except for scoring while playing 2 mins less

deng is better player should be ranked 8

i thought it was higher the raiting the better :facepalm: on me!



unlike fellow PSDers i can admit i was wrong but im still takin gay over deng his overall game is better than dengs

beasted86
08-24-2010, 01:37 PM
Iguodala... he can rebound, assist, defend, and score at a solid percentage.

He can impact the game in 4 ways on a consistent basis... The other can't.

beasted86
08-24-2010, 01:41 PM
Gay>Deng>Iggy

Yeah right... Deng is overrated. Guy can't even stay healthy.

Jays Claw
08-24-2010, 01:55 PM
I went with Caron Butler here at #7.

In my opinion, he's been extremely good/consistent these last 3-4 years and is improving.

Hawkeye15
08-24-2010, 02:02 PM
i thought it was higher the raiting the better :facepalm: on me!



unlike fellow PSDers i can admit i was wrong but im still takin gay over deng his overall game is better than dengs

like I said though, defensive rating is a fairly useless stat imo. Its reflective of team. While I think Deng is a better defender, Chicago is a better defending team, so their players will have better defensive ratings for the most part.
Example- look how low all the ratings are on Boston
Now go look at GS

ALL_i-Do_is-Win
08-24-2010, 02:06 PM
like I said though, defensive rating is a fairly useless stat imo. Its reflective of team. While I think Deng is a better defender, Chicago is a better defending team, so their players will have better defensive ratings for the most part.
Example- look how low all the ratings are on Boston
Now go look at GS

yeah do you agree that deng is one of the better defender @ sf
while gay doesn't acre much about defensve
and that deng has better stats then gay and iggy while paying same or less min
psders need to stop looking @ big names

black1605
08-24-2010, 02:09 PM
Iggy.

I would have taken him over Granger too.

stealth33
08-24-2010, 02:10 PM
Why are there so many votes for deng...

I said Rudy. He's still improving as well.

Hawkeye15
08-24-2010, 02:22 PM
yeah do you agree that deng is one of the better defender @ sf
while gay doesn't acre much about defensve
and that deng has better stats then gay and iggy while paying same or less min
psders need to stop looking @ big names

I voted for Deng if that answers your question. If you want, I can try and send you some synergy stats on Deng's defense later, to show you where he really is, league wide.

stealth33
08-24-2010, 02:23 PM
I voted for Deng if that answers your question. If you want, I can try and send you some synergy stats on Deng's defense later, to show you where he really is, league wide.

I would love to hear a good argument for Deng.

Hawkeye15
08-24-2010, 02:34 PM
I would love to hear a good argument for Deng.

page 1. As I said, I don't really think there is much of a difference between Iggy and Deng. And I wouldn't argue either over the other.
I voted for Deng because he is a playoff performer, has a slightly higher wsper48, and is a better defender.
Iggy can easily make a case as a better offensive player who can distribute though

Can't go wrong either way, just personal preference

DaBUU
08-24-2010, 02:45 PM
Yeah right... Deng is overrated. Guy can't even stay healthy.

ill agree with that, his main weakness is being brittle. Not as atheltic as Gay or Iggy, but solid all around, minus the injuries.

Ovratd1up
08-24-2010, 02:54 PM
Even with the team influence, Deng's never gotten a Drtg above 109, even on last year's bad defensive team, while Rudy's never had a Dtrg below 110. Iguodala's Drtg's have been solid, though not quite as good as Deng's.

Edit: Synergy numbers would be lovely, Hawkeye.

stealth33
08-24-2010, 03:07 PM
The thing I get a bit hung up on is a guy's importance to his team. I don't mean win shares or whatever statistics you want to throw out, but, his role. For me it's hard to compare stats for a guy who shoulders the team success (like Pierce beating out Granger in voting...Pierce is allowed off nights/less pressure than a guy like Granger)

To me, the sixers depend on Iggy and the Grizzlies depend on Rudy quite a bit more than the Bulls depend on Deng. A more important role usually leads to slightly "inflated" points, but it always leads to a decrease of the "efficiency stats". That's just the nature of things.

I view Iggy/Rudy on the same tier but I just have a very hard time placing Deng at that level. He reminds me of Antwan Jamison (a few years back). Don't rely on the guy but throw him in there and he'll produce. Don't ask too much of him and he will be a very very solid contributor. That might be harsh but that's just how I view the guy.

stealth33
08-24-2010, 03:13 PM
Defense is something that is best measured with the eyeballs. Blocks/steals are way too deceptive. Ratings and even how much your counterpart "scores on you" has a lot more to do with the team. Defense is a team effort and with 1 or 2 weak links, it can compromise the rest. Watching a guy's intensity/effort/ability to stay in front of his man/ability to play help D are what should be evaluated.

stejay
08-24-2010, 03:30 PM
I'mma go Iguadala

zambo4president
08-24-2010, 03:52 PM
Deng. But everyone's ******** and votes the biggest name. These rankings are so horrible.

zambo4president
08-24-2010, 03:53 PM
And Deng is better than Rudy too, but you guys are gonna **** that one up I can already tell.

Hustlenomics
08-24-2010, 03:55 PM
Deng. But everyone's ******** and votes the biggest name. These rankings are so horrible.

LMFAO:laugh::laugh2:

Ovratd1up
08-24-2010, 03:58 PM
LMFAO:laugh::laugh2:

I know! He DIDN'T just say the biggest name! :laugh:

loufor2
08-24-2010, 04:05 PM
Deng. But everyone's ******** and votes the biggest name. These rankings are so horrible.

says the homer !

Steelers23_06
08-24-2010, 04:08 PM
i say iggy, gay, artest.

Steelers23_06
08-24-2010, 04:10 PM
Deng. But everyone's ******** and votes the biggest name. These rankings are so horrible.


:cry: cry me a river...iggy is just better than deng. get over it i dont even think deng is a top 10 sf gay is better and artest is a wayyyyyy better asset to his team with the defensive intensity he brings to the game.

Redbull
08-24-2010, 04:10 PM
Luol Deng, you can call me a homer if you want but he defends and rebounds much better than Iguodala and Gay.

Ovratd1up
08-24-2010, 04:11 PM
says the homer !

Says the utter hypocrite.

loufor2
08-24-2010, 04:14 PM
Luol Deng, you can call me a homer if you want but he defends and rebounds much better than Iguodala and Gay.

you sir are a homer indeed. .7 rebounds more than iguodala....and who says he defends better than iguodala and gay????? Uggy, defensive stopper for the USA team.

Iguodala also averages tripple the assists/ game.

Ovratd1up
08-24-2010, 04:14 PM
:cry: cry me a river...iggy is just better than deng. get over it i dont even think deng is a top 10 sf gay is better and artest is a wayyyyyy better asset to his team with the defensive intensity he brings to the game.

Damn, I chose Deng but I was waiting for Steelers23 to tell me if I was right or not. And I'm wrong. I hate my life, I had stats and support and everything, but Steelers23 just comes and rips it away from me. Ugh.

loufor2
08-24-2010, 04:16 PM
Says the utter hypocrite.

Yes, I am a hypocrite, although I voted for rudy gay... where in that post you quoted did i mention iguodala's name?

Also, what team do you root for? just curious...

Ovratd1up
08-24-2010, 04:18 PM
you sir are a homer indeed. .7 rebounds more than iguodala....and who says he defends better than iguodala and gay????? Uggy, defensive stopper for the USA team.

Iguodala also averages tripple the assists/ game.

The ONLY thing that Iggy has over Deng is that he is a playmaker. Deng is better at everything else. And his TRB% is 2.0 higher than Iguodala's for their careers.

Covert
08-24-2010, 04:20 PM
Andre Iguodala

loufor2
08-24-2010, 04:22 PM
The ONLY thing that Iggy has over Deng is that he is a playmaker. Deng is better at everything else. And his TRB% is 2.0 higher than Iguodala's for their careers.

Biased, saying Deng is better at everything else. I guarentee you the unbiased fan would disagree. That is stat right there too (APG) Where every other stat is near identical, his apg is much higher. Not to mention, Iggy's efficiency rating is over 1.5 points better.

and to expand on the part in bold, this is for the upcoming season bud.

Ovratd1up
08-24-2010, 04:23 PM
Yes, I am a hypocrite, although I voted for rudy gay... where in that post you quoted did i mention iguodala's name?

Also, what team do you root for? just curious...

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=31579

This is one of the bigger FAIL's that I've come across... You can see who voted for who.


Where is iguodala!!!!!!!!???????

Further support.

Ovratd1up
08-24-2010, 04:25 PM
Edit: You're completely right, Iguodala is also a slightly better scorer and doesn't rely at all on others for his points, unlike Deng.
Oh, and his APG is a result of his playmaking, which I mentioned.

loufor2
08-24-2010, 04:27 PM
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=31579

This is one of the bigger FAIL's that I've come across... You can see who voted for who.



Further support.

1) It is odd that you are stalking my posts
but...
2) Once again I did not vote for Iguodala, I thought it was rediculous that he was not on the poll, when players such as ARIZA and GALLO were.

so once again, don't jump to conclusions and point the finger when you really know...nothing.

It seems you are the "utter hypocrite", not myself..

loufor2
08-24-2010, 04:28 PM
Edit: You're completely right, Iguodala is also a slightly better scorer and doesn't rely at all on others for his points, unlike Deng.
Oh, and his APG is a result of his playmaking, which I mentioned.

I know you mentioned it...that IS THE STAT that separates these 2 basketball players where most of their other stats are close to identical.

Ovratd1up
08-24-2010, 04:33 PM
1) It is odd that you are stalking my posts
but...
2) Once again I did not vote for Iguodala, I thought it was rediculous that he was not on the poll, when players such as ARIZA and GALLO were.

so once again, don't jump to conclusions and point the finger when you really know...nothing.

It seems you are the "utter hypocrite", not myself..

Haha. I showed you a link that shows that you indeed voted for Andre Iguodala, and not Rudy Gay.

And what's wrong with stalking? It got me the information which I had a hunch about anyway.


I know you mentioned it...that IS THE STAT that separates these 2 basketball players where most of their other stats are close to identical.

It really just depends on what your team needs. If you already have stars and playmakers, you'd have to go with Deng because he does all of the little things better. If you need someone to create offense, you go with Iguodala. Simple as that.

Sadds The Gr8
08-24-2010, 04:33 PM
Igadalaaaaaaa

Jewelz0376
08-24-2010, 04:34 PM
The ONLY thing that Iggy has over Deng is that he is a playmaker. Deng is better at everything else. And his TRB% is 2.0 higher than Iguodala's for their careers.

Scoring wise they're pretty much a draw, but like you said iggy can make way more plays for his teammates which gives him the edge on offense... Deng is a better rebounder (again like u said)..but as an overal defender Iggy is better .. He didnt make the all defensive team, but at least he got some votes...Deng didn't get ANY votes...

Hawkeye15
08-24-2010, 04:36 PM
Biased, saying Deng is better at everything else. I guarentee you the unbiased fan would disagree. That is stat right there too (APG) Where every other stat is near identical, his apg is much higher. Not to mention, Iggy's efficiency rating is over 1.5 points better.

and to expand on the part in bold, this is for the upcoming season bud.

per game means nothing really. They are nearly identical at shooting. Both are very good midrange shooters who rely on length. Iggy is better facilitating the offense better, and a flat out better passer. Deng is a slightly better rebounder, and turns it over a bit less, partially due to his role as a 2nd option scorer only. their usage is identical, they both rate very close on offense overall, and both have acceptable win shares for a good starting SF. The other difference is, Deng is a slightly better defender.

All in all, you honestly can't go wrong with either. I picked Deng, simply because he is younger, bigger, and a better defender. But Iggy is better if you are looking for offensive versatility.

loufor2
08-24-2010, 04:39 PM
Scoring wise they're pretty much a draw, but like you said iggy can make way more plays for his teammates which gives him the edge on offense... Deng is a better rebounder (again like u said)..but as an overally defender Iggy is better .. He didnt make the all defensive team, but at least he got a some votes...Deng didn't get ANY votes...

Very good Summary here.

Ovratd1up
08-24-2010, 04:41 PM
Scoring wise they're pretty much a draw, but like you said iggy can make way more plays for his teammates which gives him the edge on offense... Deng is a better rebounder (again like u said)..but as an overally defender Iggy is better .. He didnt make the all defensive team, but at least he got a some votes...Deng didn't get ANY votes...

Chris Paul made the All-Defensive team two years ago. Kobe and Lebron have made it two straight years. Do you really think there have been no wing defenders better than Lebron and Kobe the last two years? All-NBA whatever doesn't mean anything. The majority of voters are clueless.

Iguodala is a good defender, but Deng is at least a little better, even if he doesn't get enough credit for it.

Steelers23_06
08-24-2010, 04:41 PM
Damn, I chose Deng but I was waiting for Steelers23 to tell me if I was right or not. And I'm wrong. I hate my life, I had stats and support and everything, but Steelers23 just comes and rips it away from me. Ugh.

lol what would you do without me my friend. if i had to pick between the two i would pick iggy. he has length, ups, straight shot, alot of intangibles. i like deng though. so you werent too wrong.

loufor2
08-24-2010, 04:43 PM
Haha. I showed you a link that shows that you indeed voted for Andre Iguodala, and not Rudy Gay.

And what's wrong with stalking? It got me the information which I had a hunch about anyway.



It really just depends on what your team needs. If you already have stars and playmakers, you'd have to go with Deng because he does all of the little things better. If you need someone to create offense, you go with Iguodala. Simple as that.

Yes try to avoid both points. I did indeed lie to you, and I commend you for looking it up. The point is, Iggy and Rudy are both better players than Deng.

another point: not that Deng has missed a lot of games...but Iggy has played all 82 in every season except 1...where he played 76. He is on the court, thus helping the sixers get more wins. Still, I think Iguodala is the better defender and overall player.

Jewelz0376
08-24-2010, 04:43 PM
Chris Paul made the All-Defensive team two years ago. Kobe and Lebron have made it two straight years. Do you really think there have been no wing defenders better than Lebron and Kobe the last two years? All-NBA whatever doesn't mean anything. The majority of voters are clueless.

Iguodala is a good defender, but Deng is at least a little better, even if he doesn't get enough credit for it.

The coaches vote on who makes all defensive teams...they know more about who are truly the best defenders than anyone else..which means more than you

TheTakeOver24
08-24-2010, 04:46 PM
Its Iggy, Gay, Artest, and then Deng.

Hawkeye15
08-24-2010, 04:48 PM
Its Iggy, Gay, Artest, and then Deng.

not really

Steelers23_06
08-24-2010, 04:49 PM
The coaches vote on who makes all defensive teams...they know more about who are truly the best defenders than anyone else..which means more than you

this...the coaches are the ones that have to gameplan for these guys im pretty sure they know. like you guys under estimate lebron's d the cavs were a pretty good defensive team...i give alot of those props to Coach Brown, but coaching doesnt always translate. but think about who was on that team for the starters. mo who from the celtics series you saw could d for nothing, parker who is strictly offense, jameson who has never been a lock down defender and shaq who is 38 and slow. lebron made them look pretty good. and kobe common that doesnt even need explanation its kobe he is one of the best defenders in the league.

loufor2
08-24-2010, 04:50 PM
per game means nothing really. They are nearly identical at shooting. Both are very good midrange shooters who rely on length. Iggy is better facilitating the offense better, and a flat out better passer. Deng is a slightly better rebounder, and turns it over a bit less, partially due to his role as a 2nd option scorer only. their usage is identical, they both rate very close on offense overall, and both have acceptable win shares for a good starting SF. The other difference is, Deng is a slightly better defender.

All in all, you honestly can't go wrong with either. I picked Deng, simply because he is younger, bigger, and a better defender. But Iggy is better if you are looking for offensive versatility.

disagree very much. Iguodala is a very good defender (his main role on team USA) and only a good offensive player. You must be basing his jump shot on what you have seen on t.v this summer...you likely did not watch many Sixers games which I can NOT blame you for. But like I said, they are near identical in every statistic but APG (facilitator) which is the main difference. I would also argue that Iguodala has better tangibles, good iq and pretty clutch..but I haven't seen Deng play as much.

If i had to pick out of the 3, (gay, iggy, and deng--barring contracts) Gay, Iguodala, and Deng in that order.

loufor2
08-24-2010, 04:50 PM
this...the coaches are the ones that have to gameplan for these guys im pretty sure they know. Like you guys under estimate lebron's d the cavs were a pretty good defensive team...i give alot of those props to coach brown, but coaching doesnt always translate. But think about who was on that team for the starters. Mo who from the celtics series you saw could d for nothing, parker who is strictly offense, jameson who has never been a lock down defender and shaq who is 38 and slow. Lebron made them look pretty good. And kobe common that doesnt even need explanation its kobe he is one of the best defenders in the league.

+1

Steelers23_06
08-24-2010, 04:52 PM
not really

i agree though. artest's play is sooooo good. why do you think teams still take him even with all his off court actions. i would rather have a player that is going to lock down ANYONE or atleast stick in front of them because players like kobe and bron aare going to hit the shot no matter what(unless its pierce lol) maybe gay isnt there yet because you cant vote off potential. but def. artest so maybe iggy, artest, deng.

Hawkeye15
08-24-2010, 04:53 PM
disagree very much. Iguodala is a very good defender (his main role on team USA) and only a good offensive player. You must be basing his jump shot on what you have seen on t.v this summer...you likely did not watch many Sixers games which I can NOT blame you for. But like I said, they are near identical in every statistic but APG (facilitator) which is the main difference. I would also argue that Iguodala has better tangibles, good iq and pretty clutch..but I haven't seen Deng play as much.

If i had to pick out of the 3, (gay, iggy, and deng--barring contracts) Gay, Iguodala, and Deng in that order.

I watched 8-10 Sixer games, I like Holiday and Young a lot.
And I don't have synergy at work, but it will tell me how each did in man to man situations, and how their faired. I will check it out later, PM if you are interested in the results. Its always cool to see how detailed scouting reports reflect their play
Deng is a slightly better defender imo.

and as I said on the first page, its close between Iggy and Deng. Gay just has too many lapses. And he is allergic to defense many nights.

Hawkeye15
08-24-2010, 04:55 PM
i agree though. artest's play is sooooo good. why do you think teams still take him even with all his off court actions. i would rather have a player that is going to lock down ANYONE or atleast stick in front of them because players like kobe and bron aare going to hit the shot no matter what(unless its pierce lol) maybe gay isnt there yet because you cant vote off potential. but def. artest so maybe iggy, artest, deng.

Artest is not good anymore dude. He can not lock a player down for 40 minutes a night more than a handful of times a year at this point. And Artest, on offense, is atrocious.

Hawkeye15
08-24-2010, 04:56 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/artesro01.html

Artest. He has dropped off the planet as far as an efficient offensive player. And he is still a good defender in spots, but could never sustain guarding the other team's top wing player for 82 games

Ovratd1up
08-24-2010, 04:58 PM
I did indeed lie to you

:laugh:
I was very tempted to stop reading at this.


another point: not that Deng has missed a lot of games...but Iggy has played all 82 in every season except 1...where he played 76. He is on the court, thus helping the sixers get more wins. Still, I think Iguodala is the better defender and overall player.

Yeah, that's true too. Iggy has shown flashes of being a shutdown defender, but he is inconsistent, and Luol's team defense and overall defense are still better, even if by little. Career Dtrg of 104, while Iguodala's is 106. Though as Hawkeye pointed out, it is somewhat flawed, and I'd love to see Synergy stats to compare.

So Iguodala has a huge edge in playmaking/passing, but also a lot of turnovers, an edge in health, and a slight edge in scoring for himself. Deng has a slight edge in defense, an edge in rebounding, and is younger.

Like I said, it comes down to what your team needs, you can make a decent case for either one.

Steelers23_06
08-24-2010, 05:01 PM
Artest is not good anymore dude. He can not lock a player down for 40 minutes a night more than a handful of times a year at this point. And Artest, on offense, is atrocious.

okay but they dont need him out on the court 40 minutes a night. that is ridiculous. and artest is the reason they won the finals without him they dont win end of story. i feel you though he is old. idk him and deng are arguable i cant really argue with you on that one. deng is prob better so it goes iggy, deng, gay. but after playing with team USA this summer and a year old grizz watch him to step it up. so mark my words gay will be making HUGE steps this season. maybe even all-star level. idk guess we'll have to wait and see.

Steelers23_06
08-24-2010, 05:01 PM
i can admit when im wrong lol

Ovratd1up
08-24-2010, 05:02 PM
I forgot that coaches vote for the All-Defensive teams, but some of them must be clueless then, at least about other team's players. Or if not clueless, then careless. Chris Paul, Kobe Bryant, and Lebron James are NOT All-NBA defenders.

barbjake
08-24-2010, 05:03 PM
2 people voted for tayshaun prince?????:):):):):):)
that's great.
I think it's deng here.

Hawkeye15
08-24-2010, 05:04 PM
okay but they dont need him out on the court 40 minutes a night. that is ridiculous. and artest is the reason they won the finals without him they dont win end of story. i feel you though he is old. idk him and deng are arguable i cant really argue with you on that one. deng is prob better so it goes iggy, deng, gay. but after playing with team USA this summer and a year old grizz watch him to step it up. so mark my words gay will be making HUGE steps this season. maybe even all-star level. idk guess we'll have to wait and see.

Please don't think I am saying he holds no value anymore. But we are talking about two somewhat premier SF's in the game now who do a lot for their team on a nightly basis. Artest disappears for 10 games at a time during points of the season.
Artest had a great game 7, and many forget how awful he was in both the regular season and the playoffs until that point.

And I will wait and see on Gay. Every summer, we hear about how he could break through this year, and yet his efficiency remains in a straight line of above average to good

Hawkeye15
08-24-2010, 05:05 PM
i can admit when im wrong lol

I cant. I just talk in circles until they quit and go away, then I do pushups until I can't take it anymore to punish myself....

:)

loufor2
08-24-2010, 05:05 PM
:laugh:
I was very tempted to stop reading at this.



Yeah, that's true too. Iggy has shown flashes of being a shutdown defender, but he is inconsistent, and Luol's team defense and overall defense are still better, even if by little. Career Dtrg of 104, while Iguodala's is 106. Though as Hawkeye pointed out, it is somewhat flawed, and I'd love to see Synergy stats to compare.

So Iguodala has a huge edge in playmaking/passing, but also a lot of turnovers, an edge in health, and a slight edge in scoring for himself. Deng has a slight edge in defense, an edge in rebounding, and is younger.

Like I said, it comes down to what your team needs, you can make a decent case for either one.

Put me in jail! The fact that you must dismiss my points and focus on this shows that you knew I was winning the argument.

You are a Chicago fan and you voted for Deng, I am a philadelpha fan and I voted for Iguodala...not because I am a homer. This site has some of the most knowledgeable basketball fans out there (you wouldn;t really be on this site if you weren't a big fan), and they all thought Iguodala was better as well. I would have placed Iggy 7th in my top 10 ranking as well. You look like more of homer than me judging by the statistical outcome of the poll...but whatever.

But anyway, I will be interested to see those stats. They still don't prove who is a better defender--because obviously there are other factors that come into play. Who were they guarding, how many mpg do they play, so on and so forth..

Also, I noted you are calling some stats flawed, so you can not rely on any particular stat really.

Steelers23_06
08-24-2010, 05:07 PM
I forgot that coaches vote for the All-Defensive teams, but some of them must be clueless then, at least about other team's players. Or if not clueless, then careless. Chris Paul, Kobe Bryant, and Lebron James are NOT All-NBA defenders.

lmfao so who would you pick. i wanna hear this. i wanna hear this so i can send a letter to Stern saying your system is wrong coaches wouldnt know who belongs on this team Ovratd1up from PSD says the system is flawed they dont know how to plan against guys on the opposite team and do their jobs right...bc you said so. but really who would you pick at the sg and sf postion maybe pg but even there who would YOU pick?

Ovratd1up
08-24-2010, 05:08 PM
this...the coaches are the ones that have to gameplan for these guys im pretty sure they know. like you guys under estimate lebron's d the cavs were a pretty good defensive team...i give alot of those props to Coach Brown, but coaching doesnt always translate. but think about who was on that team for the starters. mo who from the celtics series you saw could d for nothing, parker who is strictly offense, jameson who has never been a lock down defender and shaq who is 38 and slow. lebron made them look pretty good. and kobe common that doesnt even need explanation its kobe he is one of the best defenders in the league.

Varejao is the answer to that question.

When teams are good defensively, you can usually trade it back to interior defense, and Varejao is a great defensive big man. He had much more impact on D than James.

And while Kobe is a very good defender, he's not one of the five best in the league. I'm pretty sure Hawkeye can attest to this, he provided the Synergy stats that showed that he had something like the 96th best defense in the league. Though obviously it must not be lenient to wings because of the aforementioned point about interior defense.

Hawkeye15
08-24-2010, 05:08 PM
Put me in jail! The fact that you must dismiss my points and focus on this shows that you knew I was winning the argument.

You are a Chicago fan and you voted for Deng, I am a philadelpha fan and I voted for Iguodala...not because I am a homer. This site has some of the most knowledgeable basketball fans out there (you wouldn;t really be on this site if you weren't a big fan), and they all thought Iguodala was better as well. I would have placed Iggy 7th in my top 10 ranking as well. You look like more of homer than me judging by the statistical outcome of the poll...but whatever.

But anyway, I will be interested to see those stats. They still don't prove who is a better defender--because obviously there are other factors that come into play. Who were they guarding, how many mpg do they play, so on and so forth..


who they were guarding is of no consequence. Both would face bad *** players throughout the season, so it all falls into line. Minutes don't matter either. It basically tells you how they hold opponents per possession, which equalizes all things. Pace, minutes, anything.
There is no THIS IS IT way to define a defender, but this is as close as math and scouts can come. Do me a favor and PM now, so I don't forget, and I will get them to ya

Hawkeye15
08-24-2010, 05:10 PM
Put me in jail! The fact that you must dismiss my points and focus on this shows that you knew I was winning the argument.

You are a Chicago fan and you voted for Deng, I am a philadelpha fan and I voted for Iguodala...not because I am a homer. This site has some of the most knowledgeable basketball fans out there (you wouldn;t really be on this site if you weren't a big fan), and they all thought Iguodala was better as well. I would have placed Iggy 7th in my top 10 ranking as well. You look like more of homer than me judging by the statistical outcome of the poll...but whatever.

But anyway, I will be interested to see those stats. They still don't prove who is a better defender--because obviously there are other factors that come into play. Who were they guarding, how many mpg do they play, so on and so forth..

Also, I noted you are calling some stats flawed, so you can not rely on any particular stat really.

I said PER GAME stats are flawed. They for sure don't account for pace, minutes played, etc. They are baseline numbers to put in a boxscore for drones.

loufor2
08-24-2010, 05:10 PM
I forgot that coaches vote for the All-Defensive teams, but some of them must be clueless then, at least about other team's players. Or if not clueless, then careless. Chris Paul, Kobe Bryant, and Lebron James are NOT All-NBA defenders.

I was called a hypocrite by YOU? c'mon man. I lied (which is near irrelevent...) , but when you called me a hypocrite, nothing I have ever said indicated that.
What an oxymoron-- coaches are clueless. You are ignorant and blind bro.

The last 3 players you mentioned are better defenders then Deng.

Steelers23_06
08-24-2010, 05:13 PM
Varejao is the answer to that question.

When teams are good defensively, you can usually trade it back to interior defense, and Varejao is a great defensive big man. He had much more impact on D than James.

And while Kobe is a very good defender, he's not one of the five best in the league. I'm pretty sure Hawkeye can attest to this, he provided the Synergy stats that showed that he had something like the 96th best defense in the league. Though obviously it must not be lenient to wings because of the aforementioned point about interior defense.

lmao so you really think varejao is the reason for the cavs good defense the past 2 years...so because of that you still think they are going to be top 5 for team ppg. common fam be foreal it wasnt varejao and if so they will stay in the top 5 this season if thats what your saying. so is that what your saying? you think minus lebron they are still going to be top 5?

loufor2
08-24-2010, 05:15 PM
I said PER GAME stats are flawed. They for sure don't account for pace, minutes played, etc. They are baseline numbers to put in a boxscore for drones.

I was not talking about you!!! Did i quote your comment. he said Iggy 106--defense was flawed. So I don't expect him to turn around and say your defensive stats (which I would like to see) are official.

Also 8-10 games is a pretty good sample...so what if he made a few shots in the US srimages...i'm mesmerized to how you think iguodala is good mid range shooter. He is FAR from good.

I don't feel the need to ride iggy's dick like these chiacgo fans ride Dengs. I will right a whole list of his flaws if you want me 2.

Hawkeye15
08-24-2010, 05:16 PM
I was not talking about you!!! Did i quote your comment. he said Iggy 106--defense was flawed. So I don't expect him to turn around and say your defensive stats (which I would like to see) are official.

Also 8-10 games is a pretty good sample...so what if he made a few shots in the US srimages...i'm mesmerized to how you think iguodala is good mid range shooter. He is FAR from good.

I don't feel the need to ride iggy's dick like these chiacgo fans ride Dengs. I will right a whole list of his flaws if you want me 2.

haha, sorry dude.

Down boy!

Hawkeye15
08-24-2010, 05:18 PM
I was not talking about you!!! Did i quote your comment. he said Iggy 106--defense was flawed. So I don't expect him to turn around and say your defensive stats (which I would like to see) are official.

Also 8-10 games is a pretty good sample...so what if he made a few shots in the US srimages...i'm mesmerized to how you think iguodala is good mid range shooter. He is FAR from good.

I don't feel the need to ride iggy's dick like these chiacgo fans ride Dengs. I will right a whole list of his flaws if you want me 2.

yeah, looking at his 15-20 feet range jumpers, no bueno. I stand corrected.

loufor2
08-24-2010, 05:22 PM
haha, sorry dude.

Down boy!

almost forgot to laugh...apology accepted i guess?

loufor2
08-24-2010, 05:23 PM
yeah, looking at his 15-20 feet range jumpers, no bueno. I stand corrected.

Okay, well know you know. He is infamously known for being a "brick" shooter in this city.\

With that being said, this was an enjoyable argument bro. My second with you if I recall.

Steelers23_06
08-24-2010, 05:26 PM
while you guys are too busy arguing do you see how he said varejao was the x-factor for the cavs? is that crazy or is it just me?!?

Jewelz0376
08-24-2010, 05:30 PM
while you guys are too busy arguing do you see how he said varejao was the x-factor for the cavs? is that crazy or is it just me?!?

Yea it's crazy but I'm not even going to argue with him because a few posts before this he basically said he knows more about who the best defenders in the league are than the some of the nba coaches hahaha

I'll admit interior D is more important than perimeter D...but Lebron is def an all league defender...

Ovratd1up
08-24-2010, 05:31 PM
Put me in jail! The fact that you must dismiss my points and focus on this shows that you knew I was winning the argument.

You are a Chicago fan and you voted for Deng, I am a philadelpha fan and I voted for Iguodala...not because I am a homer. This site has some of the most knowledgeable basketball fans out there (you wouldn;t really be on this site if you weren't a big fan), and they all thought Iguodala was better as well. I would have placed Iggy 7th in my top 10 ranking as well. You look like more of homer than me judging by the statistical outcome of the poll...but whatever.

But anyway, I will be interested to see those stats. They still don't prove who is a better defender--because obviously there are other factors that come into play. Who were they guarding, how many mpg do they play, so on and so forth..

Also, I noted you are calling some stats flawed, so you can not rely on any particular stat really.

Trust me, I didn't vote for Deng because I'm a Bulls fan. And the more I've looked at the numbers, the more it looks like it could easily go either way. So if I could I'd change my vote right now to a tie I would. And just because people join this site doesn't make them intelligent. There is still a majority that just vote for whoever they've seen or heard or read more of, and don't make truly educated choices. There are many intelligent posters, however, many of whom voted for Deng as well as Iguodala. As I said, it could go either way. I'm not a homer. The only reason I suspected you were is because you asked for Iguodala on the #4 poll, but now that I remember so did I :laugh2:. And of course no stats are perfect, but the Synergy stats are as reliable as it gets in basketball, since it's very hard to judge defense with numbers. In general, stats give you a very good idea of how players play and how good they are, but that's it, an idea.



lmfao so who would you pick. i wanna hear this. i wanna hear this so i can send a letter to Stern saying your system is wrong coaches wouldnt know who belongs on this team Ovratd1up from PSD says the system is flawed they dont know how to plan against guys on the opposite team and do their jobs right...bc you said so. but really who would you pick at the sg and sf postion maybe pg but even there who would YOU pick?

:laugh2: I'm not sure to be honest, because I don't have access to as much tape, as many stats, as I'd need to make a good decision.



who they were guarding is of no consequence. Both would face bad *** players throughout the season, so it all falls into line. Minutes don't matter either. It basically tells you how they hold opponents per possession, which equalizes all things. Pace, minutes, anything.
There is no THIS IS IT way to define a defender, but this is as close as math and scouts can come. Do me a favor and PM now, so I don't forget, and I will get them to ya

This. And thanks for the time man.

Hawkeye15
08-24-2010, 05:32 PM
while you guys are too busy arguing do you see how he said varejao was the x-factor for the cavs? is that crazy or is it just me?!?

Verajao is a very good defender, that is why. I would never say his the reason the Cavs were a good defensive team, that goes on everyone.
And is sideshow bob even worth arguing about?

MackSnackWrap
08-24-2010, 05:38 PM
Mr Gay slightly over iggy

Ovratd1up
08-24-2010, 05:41 PM
lmao so you really think varejao is the reason for the cavs good defense the past 2 years...so because of that you still think they are going to be top 5 for team ppg. common fam be foreal it wasnt varejao and if so they will stay in the top 5 this season if thats what your saying. so is that what your saying? you think minus lebron they are still going to be top 5?

while you guys are too busy arguing do you see how he said varejao was the x-factor for the cavs? is that crazy or is it just me?!?

This is what I think: Varejao was more important to the Cavaliers' defense than Lebron. And while Lebron practically was their offense, and was also very important in their defense, I do think the Cavs will remain a solid defensive team because the team minus Lebron stays intact, and mainly because of Varejao.


I was not talking about you!!! Did i quote your comment. he said Iggy 106--defense was flawed. So I don't expect him to turn around and say your defensive stats (which I would like to see) are official.

Also 8-10 games is a pretty good sample...so what if he made a few shots in the US srimages...i'm mesmerized to how you think iguodala is good mid range shooter. He is FAR from good.

I don't feel the need to ride iggy's dick like these chiacgo fans ride Dengs. I will right a whole list of his flaws if you want me 2.

It's good to know you are partisan. And do I really come off as a "chicago homer deng dick rider?" Because I swear to god I am not. If I said anything that sounded very homer, I'd like you to point me out, because I want to know.

And while we're at it, I'd also be interested in seeing that list to see anything I missed. I thought I pretty much covered it.

Tony_Starks
08-24-2010, 05:54 PM
Im way late but why is Lamar Odom not up there? Is it only starters?

Ovratd1up
08-24-2010, 05:55 PM
Im way late but why is Lamar Odom not up there? Is it only starters?

Odom almost never plays SF. He should be on the PF list.

SA5195
08-24-2010, 06:02 PM
Iggy

loufor2
08-24-2010, 06:19 PM
[QUOTE=Ovratd1up;14676879]Trust me, I didn't vote for Deng because I'm a Bulls fan. And the more I've looked at the numbers, the more it looks like it could easily go either way. So if I could I'd change my vote right now to a tie I would. And just because people join this site doesn't make them intelligent. There is still a majority that just vote for whoever they've seen or heard or read more of, and don't make truly educated choices. There are many intelligent posters, however, many of whom voted for Deng as well as Iguodala. As I said, it could go either way. I'm not a homer. The only reason I suspected you were is because you asked for Iguodala on the #4 poll, but now that I remember so did I :laugh2:. And of course no stats are perfect, but the Synergy stats are as reliable as it gets in basketball, since it's very hard to judge defense with numbers. In general, stats give you a very good idea of how players play and how good they are, but that's it, an idea.


Okay, i'll take it. I'm saying you have to be a genous to join psd, But in comparison to your every day fans, PSD fans as a whole are in the upper echelon in terms of fan intelligence. So the polls are really good indications..more accurate than rankings from the likes of Yahoo ... lol

loufor2
08-24-2010, 06:26 PM
Put me in jail! The fact that you must dismiss my points and focus on this shows that you knew I was winning the argument.

You are a Chicago fan and you voted for Deng, I am a philadelpha fan and I voted for Iguodala...not because I am a homer. This site has some of the most knowledgeable basketball fans out there (you wouldn;t really be on this site if you weren't a big fan), and they all thought Iguodala was better as well. I would have placed Iggy 7th in my top 10 ranking as well. You look like more of homer than me judging by the statistical outcome of the poll...but whatever.

But anyway, I will be interested to see those stats. They still don't prove who is a better defender--because obviously there are other factors that come into play. Who were they guarding, how many mpg do they play, so on and so forth..


who they were guarding is of no consequence. Both would face bad *** players throughout the season, so it all falls into line. Minutes don't matter either. It basically tells you how they hold opponents per possession, which equalizes all things. Pace, minutes, anything.
There is no THIS IS IT way to define a defender, but this is as close as math and scouts can come. Do me a favor and PM now, so I don't forget, and I will get them to ya

MPG would factor in, through fatigue. I am knit picking (poor attempt at defense lmao), but just saying. I am interested to see.

YankeesNets11
08-24-2010, 07:02 PM
Iggy

Swashcuff
08-24-2010, 07:20 PM
Andre Iguodala All The Way!

Kashmir13579
08-24-2010, 07:50 PM
i bet gallo makes the list

thekmp211
08-25-2010, 09:11 AM
chose iguodala. better shooter, more athletic, more versatile. these past two seasons have seen him yo-yo between overrated and underrated. he will play poorly, but just when you think he's lost it he goes on a two month spree. i'd like to see him keep it up for an entire year.

YoungOne
08-25-2010, 09:20 AM
why deng gets so many votes? let me guess, bulls-homers again?

bbcmillionaire
08-25-2010, 09:31 AM
Iggy should be a sg but anyways I like Rudy here, oh yea loul for top 10 sf in the league lol

Swashcuff
08-25-2010, 10:23 AM
Iggy should be a sg but anyways I like Rudy here, oh yea loul for top 10 sf in the league lol

If you pay attention to Philly games you'd never say that. Andre Iguodala is NOT a SG.

Swashcuff
08-25-2010, 10:25 AM
why deng gets so many votes? let me guess, bulls-homers again?

Luol Deng is one of the most underrated/appreciated players in all of the NBA its nothing about them being Bulls homers. He deserves the votes he's getting. A case can be made that he is better than both Iggy and Gay in certain aspects of the game.

PS I am a Iggy homer all the way but Deng is a quality player.