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Mile High Champ
08-23-2010, 09:43 AM
Hey guys, Some of you may remember that for the last two years I have conducted a poll at the end of the season that had PSD users vote for the top 10 players at each position. Its is now that time to vote! I would like to start this up once more considering the NBA season is now over and we can get to this discussion since lots has changed since the start of last season. Please TRY AND VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER AND DON'T BE A HOMER. I will leave the poll open for one day and than we can carry on to the next best player at that position. I will add more players after each round. I have also included the results of those last 2 years so everyone can see how much things have changed...Enjoy.


REMEMBER this is based on who is the best player, not the player who has the potential to be the best.

SF Rankings DONT FORGET TO VOTE!!

1) Lebron James
2) Kevin Durant
3) Carmelo Anthony
4) Paul Pierce
5) Danny Granger
6)
7)
8)
9)
10)




2009 Off Season SF Rankings

1) Lebron James
2) Carmelo Anthony
3) Kevin Durant
4) Paul Pierce
5) Danny Granger
6) Andre Iguodala
7) Caron Butler
8) Hedo Turkoglu
9) Ron Artest
10) Stephen Jackson

2008 Off-Season SF rankings

1) Lebron James
2) Paul Pierce
3) Carmelo Anthony
4) Caron Butler
5) Ron Artest
6) Shawn Marion
7) Josh Smith
8) Richard Jefferson
9) Lamar Odom
10) Tayshaun Prince

Hawkeye15
08-23-2010, 09:45 AM
Wallace, for the 3rd time haha

Mile High Champ
08-23-2010, 09:45 AM
Wallace aint catching granger in poll number 5. We move to number 6.

Swashcuff
08-23-2010, 09:55 AM
Dang jumped the gun and mistakenly voted for Iggy. My bad. Wallace easily on this though.

Avenged
08-23-2010, 09:56 AM
It's been a long time coming.

G. Wallace.

Steelers23_06
08-23-2010, 09:58 AM
after gerald wallace is where it gets murky and we are gonna have alot of good discussions

J-Relo
08-23-2010, 09:58 AM
Wallace aint catching granger in poll number 5. We move to number 6.

Nobody is catching Wallace here, we should move on.

bigsams50
08-23-2010, 10:04 AM
Crash all day.

Antipod
08-23-2010, 10:08 AM
Wallace is gonna win this by a mile :D

Sixerlover
08-23-2010, 11:13 AM
Move on so I can argue Iguodala at #7 with you haters! :D

Swashcuff
08-23-2010, 11:18 AM
Move on so I can argue Iguodala at #7 with you haters! :D

This! Lol

BOSTON617
08-23-2010, 11:20 AM
if you dont vote wallace u got issues

Swashcuff
08-23-2010, 11:24 AM
if you dont vote wallace u got issues

hey I made a mistake. :mad: ;)

Sadds The Gr8
08-23-2010, 12:45 PM
Crash

Baller1
08-23-2010, 12:47 PM
This is an easy one. Wallace.

stejay
08-23-2010, 12:53 PM
Gerald Wallace by a mile

-Kobe24-TJ19-
08-23-2010, 01:08 PM
g-force

Rafer17
08-23-2010, 01:14 PM
The most underrated player in the association.....

Wallace, Gerald

Jays Claw
08-23-2010, 01:31 PM
Gerald Wallace.

Purch
08-23-2010, 01:46 PM
Wallace should have won the last 2.

Hawkeye15
08-23-2010, 01:47 PM
Wallace should have won the last 2.

haha, totally agree.

Chacarron
08-23-2010, 01:50 PM
Wallace.

dwadefan03
08-23-2010, 02:28 PM
wallace shoulda been higher

Cool007
08-23-2010, 03:19 PM
Maybe it's just me but I would have picked Wallace over Granger easily.

ANyawy, Wallace is the answer.

RollinDeep
08-23-2010, 03:27 PM
Wallace, can't even come up with one reason to pick anyone else over him here.

greek miami hea
08-23-2010, 03:29 PM
its got to be garald wallace

Klivlend
08-23-2010, 03:30 PM
Pretty sure Wallace has got this one on lock...next

The Raven
08-23-2010, 03:33 PM
going with Wallace here

Rivera
08-23-2010, 03:43 PM
the pick is crash

but i just looked at the vote totals and hes wayyy ahead in the polls


so caron butler gets my pitty vote!

ChiSox219
08-23-2010, 03:46 PM
Deng is #7

Bruno
08-23-2010, 03:47 PM
Wallace.

Rivera
08-23-2010, 03:49 PM
Deng is #7

mmmmm nahhhhh not at all

i rather have gay, butler, artest, iggy over deng

ChiSox219
08-23-2010, 03:52 PM
mmmmm nahhhhh not at all

i rather have gay, butler, artest, iggy over deng

I prefer winning, so I'd take Deng over everyone you mentioned.

tredigs
08-23-2010, 03:57 PM
I prefer winning, so I'd take Deng over everyone you mentioned.

Just came in here to post my support for Deng. Watch how the voting goes in mass support for Iggy and Gay, while in reality these guys couldn't be any closer, and I would see no issue having Deng over Gay and Iggy.

For me:

6: Wallace
7a: Iggy
7b: Deng
7c: Gay

Unfortunately it's a popularity contest and Deng will lose semi-resoundingly to Gay, but he shouldn't.

REALLYYYYY?
08-23-2010, 03:58 PM
deng easily

Hawkeye15
08-23-2010, 03:59 PM
we will debate #7 when Mile High creates it. But it should be a great debate

REALLYYYYY?
08-23-2010, 03:59 PM
mmmmm nahhhhh not at all

i rather have gay, butler, artest, iggy over deng

craziness

REALLYYYYY?
08-23-2010, 04:00 PM
we will debate #7 when Mile High creates it. But it should be a great debate

no! debate it now!

Niro
08-23-2010, 04:01 PM
wallace

Hawkeye15
08-23-2010, 04:02 PM
no! debate it now!

haha. I just requested Mile High to make #7 as soon as he logs in to PSD

Gators123
08-23-2010, 04:06 PM
deng easily

You've said Deng the last few polls.....

ChiSox219
08-23-2010, 04:06 PM
Just came in here to post my support for Deng. Watch how the voting goes in mass support for Iggy and Gay, while in reality these guys couldn't be any closer, and I would see no issue having Deng over Gay and Iggy.

For me:

6: Wallace
7a: Iggy
7b: Deng
7c: Gay

Unfortunately it's a popularity contest and Deng will lose semi-resoundingly to Gay, but he shouldn't.

Good post.


I think it has a lot to do with the player's role. If I'm a bad team that needs a player to carry us to 35 wins and put some fans in the seats, I'd go with Iguodala or Gay. If I need a #2/3 on a playoff, I'm going with Deng because of the incredible intelligence and the diversity in his game on both ends of the court.

There's a reason Lu is consistently near the top in various Adjusted Plus/Minus stats and that is because he's an intelligent player capable of supporting his teammates as well as getting his own when need be.

I can justify Iguodala at #7 but not Gay, not yet at least.

Avenged
08-23-2010, 04:09 PM
Not a fan of Iggy or Gay whatsoever.

I can stomach Deng, but I just don't think he belongs.

REALLYYYYY?
08-23-2010, 04:11 PM
You've said Deng the last few polls.....

lol. that's only because keith bogans is not an option...even though i think he could still dominate at the 3 the way he does at the 2.

REALLYYYYY?
08-23-2010, 04:12 PM
Not a fan of Iggy or Gay whatsoever.

I can stomach Deng, but I just don't think he belongs.

doesn't belong where?

Gators123
08-23-2010, 04:13 PM
lol. that's only because keith bogans is not an option...even though i think he could still dominate at the 3 the way he does at the 2.

I see :eyebrow:

MackSnackWrap
08-23-2010, 04:14 PM
Mr Wallace no doubttt i wanted him at 5 but oh well

Rivera
08-23-2010, 04:20 PM
I prefer winning, so I'd take Deng over everyone you mentioned.

if u prefer winning then u wouldnt take deng over artest!

ZING!!!!!!!!!!

Avenged
08-23-2010, 04:28 PM
doesn't belong where?

In the next poll.

Rivera
08-23-2010, 04:32 PM
rudy and iggy have better true shooting percentages

deng .531
rudy .535
iggy .535

rudy and iggy have better efficent field goal %'s
deng .482
rudy .491
iggy .485

rudy and iggy have better player efficency ratings

deng 16.1
rudy 16.2
iggy 17.8

rudy and iggy have better offensive and defensive raitings

deng offensive 106 defensive 106
rudy offensive 109 defensive 110
iggy offensive 108 defensive 109

rudy and iggy have better win shares

deng 5.9
rudy 6.4
iggy 6.7



now tell me why are u choosing deng over rudy or iggy??


i just turned into HAWKEYE on u MOFO's!!!

Purch
08-23-2010, 04:34 PM
After Wallace the next one up is Iggy

LTS
08-23-2010, 05:00 PM
Wallace finally wins it

Gators123
08-23-2010, 05:01 PM
After Wallace the next one up is Iggy

:nod:

YankeesNets11
08-23-2010, 05:05 PM
Easily Wallace.

ChiSox219
08-23-2010, 06:19 PM
rudy and iggy have better true shooting percentages

deng .531
rudy .535
iggy .535

rudy and iggy have better efficent field goal %'s
deng .482
rudy .491
iggy .485


So, by advanced shooting percentages the three were basically equal.

The Bulls offense did not afford Deng many 3PA, notice 3P%:

Deng .384
Iggy .310
Gay .327

Thibodeau has already made it clear he felt Deng was misused last year and hopefully that means we'll see more quality opportunities for Deng's offense to shine.

Here's an example of what I mean using Deng's 09-10 season. Let's say he had a proper coach and Deng's 3PA rate jumps to 2.4 per game or so (compared to Gay's 2.5 and Iggy's 3.7). Assuming that he shoots the exact same percentages and his FTA and FGA do not change (meaning he takes more threes and less long twos), Deng would've scored an extra 32 points and his TS% would raise to .544

That is the mark I'm expecting Deng to reach this year, though now as the #3 offensive option, I believe his efficiency can exceed that level.




rudy and iggy have better player efficency ratings

deng 16.1
rudy 16.2
iggy 17.8


If I'm going to use a single conglomerated stat it would be APM (Dwight Howard =24.97, Lebron =18.52)

Deng 7.42
Gay 4.04
Iggy 0.22 (his 2 yr APM =4.66 if you wanna blame Eddie Jordan)




rudy and iggy have better offensive and defensive raitings


deng offensive 106 defensive 106
rudy offensive 109 defensive 110
iggy offensive 108 defensive 109

I would go with RAPM:

Player/Offense/Defense (positive # is good for offense, negative good for defense)

Deng 1.331/-0.519
Gay -.552/-1.380
Iggy -.605/.817

Unfortunately we no longer have access to the 4 year RAPM as that was most accurate. Blame an NBA GM, possibly Mark Cuban.



rudy and iggy have better win shares

deng 5.9
rudy 6.4
iggy 6.7



Win Shares Per 48 Minutes:

Deng .106
Iggy .101
Gay .096




now tell me why are u choosing deng over rudy or iggy??


-Deng's defense is better than both, especially when it comes to help, rotating, and fighting through screens
-more effective without the ball in his hands.
-best rebounder of the three.
-best outside shooter

I certainly think Iggy is close because of his ability to get to the basket, play great man defense, and distribute the ball.

The question is, do you take rich man's Shane Battier or poor man's Lebron James? That really depends on the personnel and style of the team.

Purch
08-23-2010, 06:22 PM
Why is Ariza even in this poll lol

masalex1205
08-23-2010, 06:34 PM
Gerald Wallace. I think he's #4 but Im a homer

greg_ory_2005
08-23-2010, 06:40 PM
I vote for Prince. He looks so naked out there with no votes. :p

Swashcuff
08-23-2010, 06:57 PM
After Wallace the next one up is Iggy

this

NBA-GMaster
08-23-2010, 11:12 PM
Next poll: Iguodala vs Gay

What?
08-23-2010, 11:17 PM
6.Wallace
7.Iggy
8.Gay
9.Deng
10.Artest

Khalifa21
08-23-2010, 11:18 PM
Crash comfortably.

Swashcuff
08-23-2010, 11:32 PM
6.Wallace
7.Iggy
8.Gay
9.Deng
10.Artest

this

end all voting and lets just debate

RocketsRule
08-23-2010, 11:46 PM
6.Wallace
7.Iggy
8.Gay
9.Deng
10.Artest

That actually appears quite accurate. Maybe throw in Butler instead of Artest.

commonsense12
08-23-2010, 11:47 PM
crap should have read the whole list before voting haha.

Ebbs
08-23-2010, 11:47 PM
6.Wallace
7.Iggy
8.Gay
9.Deng
10.Butler

edit = bolded

Ebbs
08-23-2010, 11:48 PM
lol at ariza getting a vote anywhere in the top 10. And did Greg really vote for Prince?

DeyAce
08-24-2010, 12:10 AM
Rudy Gay

td0tsfinest
08-24-2010, 12:19 AM
Gerald Wallace, again.

Jewelz0376
08-24-2010, 12:30 AM
6.Wallace
7.Iggy
8.Gay
9.Butler
10.Deng

REALLYYYYY?
08-24-2010, 12:44 AM
Rudy Gay

Hey man, that's quite an accusation to be making. Especially if you're gonna go with the capital "G"...

ChiSox219
08-24-2010, 12:47 AM
I'd take Batum over Artest or Caron but that's just me.

Gators123
08-24-2010, 01:12 AM
Just curious, why these other two over Prince?


Rk Player Season Age G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
1 Ron Artest 2009-10 30 77 77 2605 4.2 10.2 .414 1.5 4.1 .355 1.8 2.6 .688 1.4 3.2 4.6 3.2 1.5 0.3 1.7 2.3 11.7
2 Caron Butler 2009-10 29 74 74 2783 5.8 13.6 .428 0.5 1.9 .290 3.4 4.1 .838 1.3 4.6 6.0 2.0 1.5 0.3 2.1 2.5 15.6
3 Tayshaun Prince 2009-10 29 49 49 1664 6.1 12.5 .486 0.6 1.6 .370 1.5 2.1 .714 1.5 3.8 5.4 3.5 0.7 0.5 1.3 1.7 14.3



Rk Player Season Age G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
1 Ron Artest 2009-10 30 77 2605 12.1 .514 .484 4.3 9.9 7.1 13.3 2.1 0.6 12.8 16.2 106 105 1.8 3.5 5.3 0.098
2 Caron Butler 2009-10 29 74 2783 13.7 .507 .448 4.3 14.9 9.5 9.2 2.2 0.7 11.9 22.1 101 108 0.6 2.9 3.5 0.061
3 Tayshaun Prince 2009-10 29 49 1664 16.0 .530 .509 4.9 13.8 9.0 16.9 1.1 1.1 8.8 18.9 113 113 2.6 0.6 3.2 0.092

YankeesNets11
08-24-2010, 01:37 AM
haha check out yahoo sports rankings http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Ranking-the-small-forwards-11-through-1?urn=nba-264568&post_comment=1&success=1 Kirilenko at #9 and Gallo at #11...

RocketsRule
08-24-2010, 01:42 AM
Just curious, why these other two over Prince?


Rk Player Season Age G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
1 Ron Artest 2009-10 30 77 77 2605 4.2 10.2 .414 1.5 4.1 .355 1.8 2.6 .688 1.4 3.2 4.6 3.2 1.5 0.3 1.7 2.3 11.7
2 Caron Butler 2009-10 29 74 74 2783 5.8 13.6 .428 0.5 1.9 .290 3.4 4.1 .838 1.3 4.6 6.0 2.0 1.5 0.3 2.1 2.5 15.6
3 Tayshaun Prince 2009-10 29 49 49 1664 6.1 12.5 .486 0.6 1.6 .370 1.5 2.1 .714 1.5 3.8 5.4 3.5 0.7 0.5 1.3 1.7 14.3



Rk Player Season Age G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
1 Ron Artest 2009-10 30 77 2605 12.1 .514 .484 4.3 9.9 7.1 13.3 2.1 0.6 12.8 16.2 106 105 1.8 3.5 5.3 0.098
2 Caron Butler 2009-10 29 74 2783 13.7 .507 .448 4.3 14.9 9.5 9.2 2.2 0.7 11.9 22.1 101 108 0.6 2.9 3.5 0.061
3 Tayshaun Prince 2009-10 29 49 1664 16.0 .530 .509 4.9 13.8 9.0 16.9 1.1 1.1 8.8 18.9 113 113 2.6 0.6 3.2 0.092

I'd probably take Prince over Artest (I feel Artest's offensive game is vastly overrated) but Butler is better than Prince. Prince is slightly better defensively, but offensively, Butler has a much more aggressive and polished offensive game.

But that's just me.

Zefflin
08-24-2010, 01:44 AM
I am one of the only people who would pick Iggy over Wallace for some reason.

Hawkeye15
08-24-2010, 09:15 AM
#7 just went up. Thanks for voting