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KeepMonta#8
08-23-2010, 12:13 AM
im wondering who you think is the biggest ball hog in the nba?

Cromedome
08-23-2010, 12:14 AM
Al Harrington.

lakers4sho
08-23-2010, 12:15 AM
Jordan Farmar.

Chacarron
08-23-2010, 12:16 AM
part of your username fits the bill.

KeepMonta#8
08-23-2010, 12:16 AM
.

knicks09
08-23-2010, 12:17 AM
Al Harrington.

This. Anyone who disagrees is out of their mind

sargon21
08-23-2010, 12:19 AM
how ironic

xbrackattackx
08-23-2010, 12:19 AM
Al Harrington.

:)

Switch
08-23-2010, 12:20 AM
Al Harrington
Monta Ellis

blastmasta26
08-23-2010, 12:21 AM
Definitely Al Harrington. The dude is a controller without a pass button.

Wade>You
08-23-2010, 12:26 AM
Among superstars, Durant and Kobe.

Among All-Stars, Arenas.

Among average players, Michael Beasley Al Harrington Ricky Davis. There's probably a lot more.

Hustlenomics
08-23-2010, 12:27 AM
Kobe Bryant.

lakers4sho
08-23-2010, 12:28 AM
Is he really [ Al Harrington ]?? I rarely watch any Knicks games so I wouldn't know :shrug:

sargon21
08-23-2010, 12:29 AM
zach randolph and ben gordon are both black holes, throw the ball in, you never get it back

Hellcrooner
08-23-2010, 12:31 AM
it has be one of Gay, Arenas, Ellis, Z randolph , jennings.....

Slimsim
08-23-2010, 12:33 AM
Al Harrington.

this

D-Train#35
08-23-2010, 12:33 AM
Maggette

97'bulls
08-23-2010, 12:34 AM
BEN GORDON. Yes he gets very hot but that man does not know how to pass a basketball.

Ovratd1up
08-23-2010, 12:34 AM
Monta.

Al next.

JordansBulls
08-23-2010, 12:35 AM
Ben Gordon IMO

Ovratd1up
08-23-2010, 12:36 AM
Kobe for the stars.

thescore53
08-23-2010, 12:36 AM
harrington. i once saw him fake a pass to a wide open big man under the basket and take a highly contested three.

Ovratd1up
08-23-2010, 12:36 AM
For Bulls fans: Ben Gordon is not nearly the ballhog that guys like Monta and Maggette can be.

dewikwoseisbeta
08-23-2010, 12:37 AM
Mike James

Evolution23
08-23-2010, 12:41 AM
Steve Nash close thread

Sinattle
08-23-2010, 12:41 AM
Gilbert "shoot first" Arenas

Corey
08-23-2010, 12:43 AM
I'd go:

1) Harrington
1a) Ellis
3) Randolph
4) Arenas
5) Gordon

Yunqn
08-23-2010, 12:43 AM
did anyone see beasley? lol

beasley
harrington
ben gordon
monta is understandable given his team is garbage talent wise but potiential wise is good but still a player who can put up numbers like monta is bound to play like that for a team whos always top ten in the draft.. what do you expect.. look at tyreke evans he was one of the biggest ball hogs in the league in a espn article .. but nobody bashes him..

Yunqn
08-23-2010, 12:45 AM
jr smith or vujacic anyone?

but i cant forget chi citys former tyrus thomas..

Wade>You
08-23-2010, 12:47 AM
did anyone see beasley? lol

beasley
harrington
ben gordon
monta is understandable given his team is garbage talent wise but potiential wise is good but still a player who can put up numbers like monta is bound to play like that for a team whos always top ten in the draft.. what do you expect.. look at tyreke evans he was one of the biggest ball hogs in the league in a espn article .. but nobody bashes him..Unfortunately :facepalm:

DerekRE_3
08-23-2010, 12:52 AM
Andres Nocioni...the ****ing hack. I think he passed the ball about 3 times last year.

KeepMonta#8
08-23-2010, 12:53 AM
i say kobe dose anyone agree?

lakers4sho
08-23-2010, 12:56 AM
i say kobe dose anyone agree?

You've said it about 5 times already...you should know the answer.

knicks09
08-23-2010, 12:56 AM
Is he really [ Al Harrington ]?? I rarely watch any Knicks games so I wouldn't know :shrug:

Yes. This guy will not pass you the ball. Gallinari would be WIDE OPEN for 3 but he would never pass it to him, he would just try to be the hero and jack up a horrible shot

KeepMonta#8
08-23-2010, 12:57 AM
You've said it about 5 times already...you should know the answer.

i said it 1 time

lakers4sho
08-23-2010, 12:58 AM
i said it 1 time


.

:pity:

KeepMonta#8
08-23-2010, 12:58 AM
:pity:

haha :)

lakers4sho
08-23-2010, 12:59 AM
Yes. This guy will not pass you the ball. Gallinari would be WIDE OPEN for 3 but he would never pass it to him, he would just try to be the hero and jack up a horrible shot

Ouch :o

Well good thing he ain't a Knick now.

thescore53
08-23-2010, 12:59 AM
Yes. This guy will not pass you the ball. Gallinari would be WIDE OPEN for 3 but he would never pass it to him, he would just try to be the hero and jack up a horrible shot

i remeber gallo catching fire and somehow finding ways to get open. and harrington got his man in the air. right beside him was a wide open gallo. he took a step to the left and took a three :facepalm: and he missed bad

knicks09
08-23-2010, 12:59 AM
Gilbert "shoot first" Arenas

No pun intended lmaoo

Ragun
08-23-2010, 01:03 AM
ellis...25 ppg, 99 ORTG.

Agility
08-23-2010, 01:06 AM
Brian Scalabrine for sure.

Hellcrooner
08-23-2010, 01:17 AM
3 pages and still no MIKE jAMEs????


shame on you

Giantwarrior
08-23-2010, 01:23 AM
Allen iverson!

lakers4sho
08-23-2010, 01:33 AM
3 pages and still no MIKE jAMEs????


shame on you

Remember, MJ is a playmaker. He even said so in his interview. It don't matter whether he shoots 5 shots or 25 shots. He's a playmaker.

jackdawson
08-23-2010, 02:31 AM
Kobe Bryant is the most prominent ball-hog among the superstars.

Zefflin
08-23-2010, 02:40 AM
Nah, Lebron is.

tredigs
08-23-2010, 02:44 AM
Nah, Lebron is.

Just tell me this is a joke so we can move on. Somehow your location (Cali) is making me fear otherwise.

Korman12
08-23-2010, 02:45 AM
Monta

Crackadalic
08-23-2010, 02:49 AM
Al Harrington sometimes i wanted to strangle this guy he would get tripled team and do a fadeaway running three pointer airball try to dive for the ball and try to dunk only to get a technical for hanging on the rim a bum god i hate him

15carlos21
08-23-2010, 02:50 AM
nate robinson

dodie53
08-23-2010, 03:01 AM
steve nash

s2kobe
08-23-2010, 03:02 AM
al harrington

Bulls_fan90
08-23-2010, 03:07 AM
Rondo

Zefflin
08-23-2010, 03:18 AM
Just tell me this is a joke so we can move on. Somehow your location (Cali) is making me fear otherwise.

Wtf, my location? I'm in New York right now because I grew up here but my penthouse in LA will be waiting for me when I go back in a few days but I'm moving to SD in Sept...feel better?

asandhu23
08-23-2010, 03:35 AM
Kobe, LeDouchebag, Wade, Rose, Durant

All of you guys saying Monta need to realize that he had to be a ballhog last year because before All Star Game there was no one on his team consistent enough of a scorer and he had no pg and everyone on the team was injured ( w's set the nba record for injuries last season) Up until the last few 2-3 weeks of the season, he took a rest and let curry take over but before that he was in the game 48 mpg. he worked his *** off.

lakerboy
08-23-2010, 03:51 AM
Just tell me this is a joke so we can move on. Somehow your location (Cali) is making me fear otherwise.

Just because you rack up assist numbers does it mean you're unselfish. Lebron James cannot operate without the ball.

Bulls_fan90
08-23-2010, 03:57 AM
Kobe, LeDouchebag, Wade, Rose, Durant

All of you guys saying Monta need to realize that he had to be a ballhog last year because before All Star Game there was no one on his team consistent enough of a scorer and he had no pg and everyone on the team was injured ( w's set the nba record for injuries last season) Up until the last few 2-3 weeks of the season, he took a rest and let curry take over but before that he was in the game 48 mpg. he worked his *** off.

Who did Lebron, Wade and Rose have on their team last year that was a consistent enough scorer? Pathetic attempt at defending Monta.

asandhu23
08-23-2010, 04:05 AM
Who did Lebron, Wade and Rose have on their team last year that was a consistent enough scorer? Pathetic attempt at defending Monta.

yeah but did their teams have record amount of D-Leaguers after their teams set NBA record for the most injuries for a team ever? Did their other best shooter give up on the team in the first few weeks of the season and get traded away by the management for nothing? Did their coach not give a ****?

Hellcrooner
08-23-2010, 04:07 AM
Kobe Bryant is the most prominent ball-hog among the superstars.

i got to check it one day but i m almost cetain KObe must be the leader of a ring winning team that has the HIGHEST shoots per game differential with his second option.

COBY KARL
08-23-2010, 04:08 AM
Kinda surprised no one said Rudy Gay.

also: Andrew Bynum, Al Thornton, Antawn Jamison

-Kobe24-TJ19-
08-23-2010, 04:12 AM
Harrington by a mile

Bulls_fan90
08-23-2010, 04:12 AM
yeah but did their teams have record amount of D-Leaguers after their teams set NBA record for the most injuries for a team ever? Did their other best shooter give up on the team in the first few weeks of the season and get traded away by the management for nothing? Did their coach not give a ****?

I agree. They had a depleted team last season. But you can't claim that Wade, Rose and Lebron are ball hogs. I hate Lebrick more than most but he really had no choice but to dominate the ball. Same with Wade, Rose and Monta.

Hellcrooner
08-23-2010, 04:13 AM
Kinda surprised no one said Rudy Gay.

also: Andrew Bynum, Al Thornton, Antawn Jamison

i said it,

COBY KARL
08-23-2010, 04:18 AM
i said it,

forgive me crooner :pray:

MickeyMgl
08-23-2010, 04:23 AM
Kobe Bryant.

That's so 2005.

lakerboy
08-23-2010, 04:24 AM
I don't understand, people like Steve Nash have the ball in their hands the entire game. They choose when and to whom to pass, and they have that kind of control. Aren't they ballhoggers?

Players can hog points. In the same way, they can hog assists too.

tredigs
08-23-2010, 04:25 AM
Kobe, LeDouchebag, Wade, Rose, Durant

All of you guys saying Monta need to realize that he had to be a ballhog last year because before All Star Game there was no one on his team consistent enough of a scorer and he had no pg and everyone on the team was injured ( w's set the nba record for injuries last season) Up until the last few 2-3 weeks of the season, he took a rest and let curry take over but before that he was in the game 48 mpg. he worked his *** off.

What a ridiculous post. Kobe may be selfish, but it's not nearly on the level of a guy like Monta or Al Harrington - who absolutely disrupt the flow of their respective offenses with their style of play the past 2 years (in Monta's case). Lebron, like I just mentioned is just a ridiculously comedic/horrible choice, and I am not going to bother elaborating that if you can't comprehend it already. Wade has to be selfish as he's the only capable scorer on his team, but even he is a great playmaker/distributor as well. Durant plays well within the flow of their offense, and is the most efficient scoring superstar in the league. Another terrible choice.



Wtf, my location? I'm in New York right now because I grew up here but my penthouse in LA will be waiting for me when I go back in a few days but I'm moving to SD in Sept...feel better?

Your location as it relates to what NBA team you follow, turbo. Being that you live in LA, there's a much higher propensity of you being a Laker fan/Lebron hater, and could actually be serious about an asinine comment like calling Lebron a selfish player (let alone the most selfish). So if you were indeed being serious, then you're choosing a guy who is arguably the best/most willing passing forward of all time. Which is fine - everyone's entitled to their opinions - but ridiculously ironic and flat wrong. If his USG% isn't as high as it is, then that Cavs offense would have absolutely wilted under its own mediocrity.

Wade>You
08-23-2010, 04:36 AM
Just because you rack up assist numbers does it mean you're unselfish. Lebron James cannot operate without the ball.Does not watch basketball outside of Kobe Bryant and the Lakers.

GrandDaddyPurp
08-23-2010, 05:02 AM
Deron Williams, Steve Nash, and Rajon Rondo. Just to name a few...

z_pak90@hotmail
08-23-2010, 05:05 AM
JR Smith .. no wonder there tryna trade him

blackjack_119
08-23-2010, 05:13 AM
I guess no one does pay attention to indiana because TJ Ford should be up there.

Steelers23_06
08-23-2010, 08:01 AM
anyone who says kobe, lebron, or wade is just ignorant. for one kobe isnt a ball hog anymore that was years ago and not because he wanted to he had to. lebron and wade had no other choice but to hold the rock the offense ran through those two. imo its monta he has a good young point guard that could get him the rock if he wanted it but he chooses to shoot dumb shots. thus the 4th in t.o. per game results. if he could learn to play off the ball more like ray allen the warriors would have a dangerous duo in monta and curry

Minimal
08-23-2010, 08:15 AM
A ball hog is a derisive term in basketball for a player who tends to handle the ball so exclusively that his behavior is damaging to their team.

Monta Ellis, Gilbert Arenas, Michael Beasley, Nate Robinson, Corey Maggette and Kobe Bryant.

Steelers23_06
08-23-2010, 08:30 AM
A ball hog is a derisive term in basketball for a player who tends to handle the ball so exclusively that his behavior is damaging to their team.

Monta Ellis, Gilbert Arenas, Michael Beasley, Nate Robinson, Corey Maggette and Kobe Bryant.

:no:
beasley only attempted 13 shots per game in my eyes that is farrrr from a ball hog. and as for kobe see my other post

Hawkeye15
08-23-2010, 08:30 AM
From last season, here are 15 that were pretty bad

Beasley
Nocioni
Kris Humphries
Larry Hughes
Al Harrington
Ilyaslova
Tyreke Evans
Ariza
Monta
Rasheed
Arenas
Al Jefferson
TJ Ford
JR Smith
Pargo

Minimal
08-23-2010, 09:39 AM
:no:
beasley only attempted 13 shots per game in my eyes that is farrrr from a ball hog. and as for kobe see my other post
A ball hog doesn't mean you attemp a lot of shots every game.

Beasley is the guy who as soon as he gets the ball, he shoots, he isn't the guy who creates easy shots for himself, he is power forward who can't make his way to the rim, however he is phisically capable of doing that. Basically his every attack is finished with a jump shot.

Steelers23_06
08-23-2010, 09:42 AM
i feel you but he kind of had to last season...he was the second best player on the court. i think this year we can evaluate him more because he wont be playing with a top 5 player in the league and on a worse team so we can see how he can really play

Hawkeye15
08-23-2010, 09:43 AM
A ball hog doesn't mean you attemp a lot of shots every game.

Beasley is the guy who as soon as he gets the ball, he shoots, he isn't the guy who creates easy shots for himself, he is power forward who can't make his way to the rim, however he is phisically capable of doing that. Basically his every attack is finished with a jump shot.

I know you dislike stats (wink), but here is Beasley's ball hog explanation


Beasley still packs some amazing offensive potential, but the results just haven't been there this season. The shots are, however.

He averages 18.1 shots per 40 minutes, but has a true shooting percentage of just 50.1 -- even with Dwyane Wade commanding most of the opponent's attention -- and assists on just 7.2 percent of his possessions, putting him in the bottom third of power forwards. Beasley has by far the highest usage rate (23.3) of any frontcourt player with a TS% under 51.

Steelers23_06
08-23-2010, 09:56 AM
i feel you he isnt that good but i dont see him as a ball hog but more like he takes ill-advised shots. a ball hog imo is exactly what it says someone who hogs the ball lol you guys cant just make a definition of a word. a ball hog is self explanatory you cant read into it lol.

GivenGrace
08-23-2010, 10:14 AM
Al Harrington first came to mind

RCarlson85
08-23-2010, 10:18 AM
Kobe, no doubt in my mind.

Ollie Tabooger
08-23-2010, 10:25 AM
From last season, here are 15 that were pretty bad

Beasley
Nocioni
Kris Humphries
Larry Hughes
Al Harrington
Ilyaslova
Tyreke Evans
Ariza
Monta
Rasheed
Arenas
Al Jefferson
TJ Ford
JR Smith
Pargo

I agree with pretty much all of them, except Ilyasova. I watched the majority of the Bucks games last year, and if anyone on our team was a ballhog, it would be Jennings. Did you use your knowledge of the game with those picks, or did you use stats?

Steelers23_06
08-23-2010, 10:25 AM
Kobe, no doubt in my mind.

how though...he plays in triangle offense he cant hog the ball with the team he has. the trangle offense requires a good team to run it and when kobe didnt have the team the triangle offense turned into the one star offense...but did you see what artest said after the finals..."kobe passed me the ball" he has changed. he knows he cant have the 60+ and 81 point games and put up points in bunches like he used to.

Hawkeye15
08-23-2010, 10:28 AM
I agree with pretty much all of them, except Ilyasova. I watched the majority of the Bucks games last year, and if anyone on our team was a ballhog, it would be Jennings. Did you use your knowledge of the game with those picks, or did you use stats?

statistics basically. I was surprised he popped up after watching the Bucks quite a few times last year (I have a man crush on Bogut)

most of the numbers I looked at came right off Hollinger's stuff, with a few other references.

Hawkeye15
08-23-2010, 10:30 AM
I agree with pretty much all of them, except Ilyasova. I watched the majority of the Bucks games last year, and if anyone on our team was a ballhog, it would be Jennings. Did you use your knowledge of the game with those picks, or did you use stats?

I did notice in close games, he would jack ill advised shots...

RCarlson85
08-23-2010, 10:37 AM
how though...he plays in triangle offense he cant hog the ball with the team he has. the trangle offense requires a good team to run it and when kobe didnt have the team the triangle offense turned into the one star offense...but did you see what artest said after the finals..."kobe passed me the ball" he has changed. he knows he cant have the 60+ and 81 point games and put up points in bunches like he used to.

Somehow he still finds a way to do it, despite his teammates or the offense they run. I don't see anyone in the NBA who forces shots like Kobe. He pulls up for threes or jumpers all the time. He, of all people, should not have to take bad shots. This is not the post-Shaq, pre-Gasol Lakers. Yes I saw the finals, but the finals only cemented this fact in my mind that much more. It was classic ball-hog Kobe in game 6 where, before he passed to Artest for the win, almost gave the game away by taking many forced, ill-advised shots. When you have Gasol, Bynum, Odom, Artest, etc you shouldn't have to force up shots when you're double-teamed.

roshan3ai
08-23-2010, 10:43 AM
Al Harrington. This teenage mutan ninja turtle would have like three guys on him, and he'd still chuck up the shot. He doesn't pass, and even if Gallo or Chandler are wide open, he'd drive and chuck up a shot or turn the ball over. I'm glad he's not on the Knicks any longer. It was partly because he thought he had to carry most of the load on the bad Knicks team. I think he'll be a solid fit in Denver. I just don't think that they need both JR Smith and Al Harrington. They're both sparks off the bench that can give you instant points, but not much else.

Also, Zach Randolph.

roshan3ai
08-23-2010, 10:45 AM
From last season, here are 15 that were pretty bad

Beasley
Nocioni
Kris Humphries
Larry Hughes
Al Harrington
Ilyaslova
Tyreke Evans
Ariza
Monta
Rasheed
Arenas
Al Jefferson
TJ Ford
JR Smith
Pargo

Surprisingly, Hughes wasn't bad on the Knicks for a while. He was a good distributer last year. Maybe us Knicks fans were just happy that Chris Duhon was off the floor. :)

BOSTON617
08-23-2010, 10:50 AM
monta elllis!!!!!!!!!

Hawkeye15
08-23-2010, 10:51 AM
Surprisingly, Hughes wasn't bad on the Knicks for a while. He was a good distributer last year. Maybe us Knicks fans were just happy that Chris Duhon was off the floor. :)

He has the worst TS% of any player with at least 800 minutes and a usage rate over 19.

thescore53
08-23-2010, 10:54 AM
Just because you rack up assist numbers does it mean you're unselfish. Lebron James cannot operate without the ball.

does he hog the ball ? by ur logic every pg is a ball hog. he runs the offense and is really unselfish and will get u the ball if ur open

Steelers23_06
08-23-2010, 10:55 AM
does he hog the ball ? by ur logic every pg is a ball hog. he runs the offense and is really unselfish and will get u the ball if ur open

:clap: this.

nycericanguy
08-23-2010, 10:58 AM
Al Harrington, and its not that close really.

he once made a pass, just to see what it felt like...

Steelers23_06
08-23-2010, 11:05 AM
Al Harrington, and its not that close really.

he once made a pass, just to see what it felt like...

lmfao im at work and that lierally just made me lol

Hawkeye15
08-23-2010, 11:13 AM
Al Harrington, and its not that close really.

he once made a pass, just to see what it felt like...

that is pretty funny

sep11ie
08-23-2010, 11:17 AM
Ellis

magichatnumber9
08-23-2010, 11:23 AM
It amazes me sometimes. Look, point guards are suppose to have the ball a lot. I'll let someone who knows what there talking about explain it to you guys.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JE9NPdHQZM

stealth33
08-23-2010, 11:34 AM
Harrington
Gordon
Jannero Pargo

These 3 guys because they aren't ever a team's first option..yet they play like that pickup game ball hog who thinks he's MJ. Gordon and Pargo I will never forgive for trying to outplay their roles in critical playoff moments when they have MUCH better players (than them) on their team. Gordon is more understandable than Pargo because he's actually decent. Still. Ben Gordon is a massive black hole.

Ellis but he was the team's first option so it's harder to call him a hog.

stealth33
08-23-2010, 11:36 AM
And for the people saying Steve Nash...that is ABSURD. He is an elite point guard. He does dominate the ball but he makes the correct basketball plays. A ball hog is a guy who does not make the correct basketball play and will instead just look for his own shots. Steve Nash does not do this. He will hold the ball...but he will hold the ball to find the correct play whether it is a pass or his shot.

Da Knicks
08-23-2010, 11:46 AM
Well i guess because of the system he is in, Kobe is the biggest ball hog because the system is set up for him to shoot the ball and everybody else has to rebound and play defense. He could be a 40 point player if he was more efficient. Now a down dirty ball hog who doesnt wait for the offense to set up or wait for rebounders- Al Harrington and Monte Ellis are the front runners for this...

Hawkeye15
08-23-2010, 11:47 AM
how do we define a ball hog?

macc
08-23-2010, 11:54 AM
I'd go:

1) Harrington
1a) Ellis
3) Randolph
4) Arenas
5) Gordon



I think you're spot on here.

DCSportsIsPain
08-23-2010, 11:54 AM
how do we define a ball hog?

Allen Iverson

roygconner
08-23-2010, 12:00 PM
Leborn James, Wade... Which is exactly why they will not win a championship in Miami with both of those players.

sofargone
08-23-2010, 12:03 PM
Monta Ellis

Lloyd Christmas
08-23-2010, 12:12 PM
I would define a ball hog as Marbury. He was the king of dribbling out the shot clock and chucking up a contested jumper to try to beat the buzzer.

As for guys in the game today, I think Kamen is a guy who should be brought up also. Every time I saw him play he never passed the ball, even if he was triple teamed on the block he would still throw up a hook shot.

dwadefan03
08-23-2010, 12:21 PM
i think its pretty obviously kobe

daleja424
08-23-2010, 12:34 PM
I put russel westbrook up there. I have been watching some thunder video and that kid HOGS

roygconner
08-23-2010, 12:37 PM
Looking a daleja424 sig I would say eveybody on the Miami Heats team would fall in that category...

mpete1229
08-23-2010, 12:39 PM
I felt Nate Robinson always tried to pull an extra unnecessary move or shot when he could have made an easy pass. Also until crawford left the knicks he was a huge balhog in NY.

Hawkeye15
08-23-2010, 12:41 PM
I put russel westbrook up there. I have been watching some thunder video and that kid HOGS

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=westbru01&y1=2010&p2=rosede01&y2=2010&p3=curryst01&y3=2010&p4=chalmma01&y4=2010

not really dude

Hustla23
08-23-2010, 02:56 PM
Al Harrington is the only person I've ever seen try to dribble through 4 people with wide open teammates left and right.

That's pretty much a microcosm of what he does.

Hawkeye15
08-23-2010, 02:57 PM
Al Harrington is the only person I've ever seen try to dribble through 4 people.

That's pretty much a microcosm of what he does.

did he make it through?

Hustla23
08-23-2010, 03:01 PM
did he make it through?
Nah, I think he lost the ball somewhere between the free throw line and restricted area.

The ball probably bounced off of 4 knees before hitting his giant head and sailing out of bounds.

The Raven
08-23-2010, 03:39 PM
i think its pretty obviously kobe

nope:facepalm:

Hellcrooner
08-23-2010, 03:50 PM
Al Harrington is the only person I've ever seen try to dribble through 4 people with wide open teammates left and right.

That's pretty much a microcosm of what he does.

you dont see much memphis do you?

Mmr G does that all the time.

greek miami hea
08-23-2010, 03:50 PM
Among superstars, Durant and Kobe.

Among All-Stars, Arenas.

Among average players, Michael Beasley Al Harrington Ricky Davis. There's probably a lot more.

this

Kashmir13579
08-23-2010, 04:54 PM
i would say toney douglas but he's not even good enough. prolly al harrington or t-mac

Baller1
08-23-2010, 04:56 PM
I put russel westbrook up there. I have been watching some thunder video and that kid HOGS

I hope that's a joke.

Draco
08-23-2010, 04:59 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=westbru01&y1=2010&p2=rosede01&y2=2010&p3=curryst01&y3=2010&p4=chalmma01&y4=2010

not really dude

What's that link supposed to suggest? Something about usage rates for players on teams with different personnel?

Hawkeye15
08-23-2010, 05:04 PM
What's that link supposed to suggest? Something about usage rates for players on teams with different personnel?

that doesn't matter dude. Personel won't effect it to much of a degree. Type of play will, from an individual standpoint especially.

Draco
08-23-2010, 05:05 PM
that doesn't matter dude. Personel won't effect it to much of a degree. Type of play will, from an individual standpoint especially.

I disagree.

_KB24_
08-23-2010, 06:31 PM
Arenas, not even close.

blazerman
08-23-2010, 06:40 PM
Kobe Arenas,LBJ are all ballhogs but they get it done more often than not but the 2 most annoying guys in the NBA when it becomes a one man show are Cory Maggette and Zach Randolph.

ballpd05
08-23-2010, 06:56 PM
Maggette is pretty bad in that category

masalex1205
08-23-2010, 07:18 PM
w/o a doubt Monta Ellis

Hawkeye15
08-23-2010, 07:21 PM
I disagree.

then state why. And I am sure it will have to do with Rose not having "scorers" around him, so his ast% isnt as high for that reason. And then I will tell you why you are wrong

Jamballin L@KER
08-23-2010, 08:04 PM
i mean i would say kobe but he gets the job done when he hogs, most of the time. So u cant complain there but with that being said I think its Harrington because he would pass up like 5 easy assist a game by taking terrible shots.

Draco
08-24-2010, 12:15 AM
then state why. And I am sure it will have to do with Rose not having "scorers" around him, so his ast% isnt as high for that reason. And then I will tell you why you are wrong

Rose's rookie usage% was 22 compared with 27 in his second season. He played with Gordon that first year who had a usage % of 25. Gordon was the only other reliable scorer the Bulls had in Rose's first year and Gordon wasn't replaced with a similar talent for Rose's second year.

Yes, please tell me why I'm wrong...

PLAYERS FAN
08-24-2010, 03:46 AM
Kobe Bryant.

I never thought I see the day that a Iverson fan call Kobe a ballhog:laugh2:

What's next? A Iverson fan complaining about Kobe field goal percentage:laugh:

Master Mind
08-24-2010, 04:27 AM
Kevin Durant fits the bill. Great kid but a gun slinger

nanablvd
08-24-2010, 04:42 AM
It's one thing to be a ball hog by nature; it's also another thing to be a ball hog because the system requires of him.

kikeyanez
08-24-2010, 04:56 AM
corey maggette

YoungOne
08-24-2010, 05:41 AM
anybody who says rondo does not watch any celtics games..

Hawkeye15
08-24-2010, 08:04 AM
Rose's rookie usage% was 22 compared with 27 in his second season. He played with Gordon that first year who had a usage % of 25. Gordon was the only other reliable scorer the Bulls had in Rose's first year and Gordon wasn't replaced with a similar talent for Rose's second year.

Yes, please tell me why I'm wrong...

Rose doesn't look to pass as much as Westbrook for example. He just doesn't. Chris Paul had a far less talented roster the past two season than Rose did, yet his assist% blows Rose out of the water. We can only show documentation for what Rose has DONE, not what he COULD DO.
At some point, Rose will need to prove he can be a great distributor to enter the elite PG argument. This year he has more help, maybe his assist% will rise, maybe it won't. It will be an interesting year for him statistically.

cmellofan15
08-24-2010, 08:05 AM
Zach Randolph

Draco
08-24-2010, 12:50 PM
Rose doesn't look to pass as much as Westbrook for example. He just doesn't.

:rolleyes:



Chris Paul had a far less talented roster the past two season than Rose did, yet his assist% blows Rose out of the water. We can only show documentation for what Rose has DONE, not what he COULD DO.

Why should I give a frig about Chris Paul -the best PG in the NBA-? What I did was compare Rose's usage% in his rookie and sophmore years and the reliable scorers on in both of those years.



At some point, Rose will need to prove he can be a great distributor to enter the elite PG argument. This year he has more help, maybe his assist% will rise, maybe it won't. It will be an interesting year for him statistically.

We're getting off topic.

Hawkeye15
08-24-2010, 01:09 PM
:rolleyes:



Why should I give a frig about Chris Paul -the best PG in the NBA-? What I did was compare Rose's usage% in his rookie and sophmore years and the reliable scorers on in both of those years.



We're getting off topic.

how does his usage have anything to do with this? Rose is involved in more plays than any of the compared guards I used. When his usage went up, so did his ast%.
In the post I used, I simply compared Westbrook to other young PG's to argue against a poster saying he is a ballhog, when he clearly isn't.
So quite honestly, I have no idea why you even got involved.

knicksfan42
08-24-2010, 01:15 PM
I think Rose is more suited to playing SG than PG. His style of play is very similar to D-Wade's.

Brooklyn Mets
08-24-2010, 01:23 PM
Al Harrington.. in his tenure with the Knicks im not sure if i ever saw him pass the ball (only a slight exaggeration)

awmathewsjr
08-24-2010, 01:31 PM
Zach Randolph and Al Jefferson

td0tsfinest
08-24-2010, 01:42 PM
Ron Artest knows the anwser: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIQ5BEZaZKI ;)

Red Hot Rolllin
08-24-2010, 01:54 PM
Monta Ellis hands down. Gunnnnnner

Zach and Harrington hogz too...

phillychi009
08-24-2010, 01:58 PM
jason williams

bklynny67
08-24-2010, 02:12 PM
Monta Ellis and Al Harrington

Klivlend
08-24-2010, 02:18 PM
Ron Artest knows the anwser: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIQ5BEZaZKI ;)

That's pretty funny. Never saw that.

xabial
08-24-2010, 02:21 PM
Ron Artest knows the anwser: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIQ5BEZaZKI ;)

:laugh:

tredigs
08-24-2010, 02:25 PM
x

Missing56&33
08-24-2010, 02:28 PM
Al Harrington

NYMetros
08-24-2010, 02:33 PM
Kobe Bryant's not a ball hog, lol.

mikantsass
08-24-2010, 02:36 PM
Maggette or Harrington

Hiphopopotamus
08-24-2010, 02:38 PM
Larry Hughes and also John Hughes

Mavrix
08-24-2010, 02:43 PM
Used to be Jerry Stackhouse

xM1GSx
08-24-2010, 02:59 PM
ellis harrington

Chronz
08-24-2010, 03:03 PM
Kobe Bryant's not a ball hog, lol.

Look at his supporting cast, he still led the league in shot attempts.

Draco
08-24-2010, 05:18 PM
how does his usage have anything to do with this? Rose is involved in more plays than any of the compared guards I used. When his usage went up, so did his ast%.
In the post I used, I simply compared Westbrook to other young PG's to argue against a poster saying he is a ballhog, when he clearly isn't.
So quite honestly, I have no idea why you even got involved.

You didn't do anything but provide a link to basketball reference. And I asked what that was supposed to suggest.

Hawkeye15
08-24-2010, 05:20 PM
You didn't do anything but provide a link to basketball reference. And I asked what that was supposed to suggest.

that no PG that assists on nearly 4/10 possessions he is in the game can be considered a ball hog.
sorry for the confusion. No wonder it took a while to get here :)

Klivlend
08-24-2010, 05:44 PM
Look at his supporting cast, he still led the league in shot attempts.

First off, great point^^^.

I've been a Kobe hater since day one, and I'm proud of that fact. I am not a bandwagon hater, I am an original. With that being said, Kobe is not the ballhog he was a few short years ago. Does he still show glimpses of selfish play, absolutely. I don't think anyone can seriously debate that. However, he has matured and as transitioned more into the role of a scorer. A scorer is related to a ballhog, but there is a difference. It seems like Kobe not only acknowledges but understands that he is surrounded by a tremendous amount of talent that he can trust, even if only a little. This is what makes the Lakers such a competitive team. Well that, and Pau Gasol, Ron Artest, Lamar Odom, Andrew Bynum and Phil Jackson…and Adam Morrison!

Khalifa21
08-24-2010, 05:49 PM
Al Harrington, JR Smith and Monta Ellis spring to mind straight away.

Gators123
08-24-2010, 05:52 PM
Kobe and Monta

shen
08-24-2010, 06:02 PM
Zach Randolph, when someones gives him the ball his team starts going back down the court.

justinnum1
08-24-2010, 06:10 PM
Jo

Red Hot Rolllin
08-25-2010, 12:51 AM
I guess no one does pay attention to indiana because TJ Ford should be up there.

agreed pretty bad when your point guard is a ball hog... No wonder nobody on the Pacers like TJ

nightBULL
08-25-2010, 01:11 AM
Jannero Pargo

jackdawson
08-25-2010, 01:11 AM
Look at his supporting cast, he still led the league in shot attempts.

Anyone who is saying Kobe is not a ball hog needs to notice this ^^^. Kobe is by far the biggest ball hog among the superstars.

knicksfan23
08-25-2010, 01:18 AM
def zach randolph omggg frickin ball hog hated him so glad hes off my team

PatsSoxKnicks
08-25-2010, 01:38 AM
Anyone who is saying Kobe is not a ball hog needs to notice this ^^^. Kobe is by far the biggest ball hog among the superstars.

Kobe's TS% and eFG% are lower then both Al Harrington and Zach Randolph and yet he also has a higher USG%.

Obviously what takes him out of that category is the fact that he does pass the ball (his Ast% isn't nearly as bad as Al's and Zach's)

dacreator101
08-25-2010, 07:35 AM
easily kobe..he got to get tripile team before he even "thinks" about throwing it back

KnicksGuard
08-25-2010, 10:58 AM
Al 4 sure.

DaBUU
08-25-2010, 11:18 AM
Ben Gordon was a black hole for the Bulls. I dont think he had a chance to ball hog this past year in Detroit.

MickeyMgl
10-19-2010, 08:22 PM
A ball hog is a derisive term in basketball for a player who tends to handle the ball so exclusively that his behavior is damaging to their team.

Monta Ellis, Gilbert Arenas, Michael Beasley, Nate Robinson, Corey Maggette and Kobe Bryant.

Deeyum.... If 5 championships is damaging to one's team, then Bryant should keep damaging.

Or did you mean damaging to the OTHER team?

TylerSL
10-19-2010, 08:41 PM
stay with me its a long list lol
Al Harrington
Monta Ellis
Ron Artest
Michael Beasley
Ben Gordan
Kobe Bryant
Gilbert Arenas
Kevin Durant
Paul Peirce
Carmelo Anthony
JR Smith
Tracy McGrady
TJ Ford
Kevin Martin
Eddie Curry
Luol Deng
Zach Randolph
Kenny Hasbrouck (cant wait til the Heat cut him :pray:)


that is in no particular order, all of those players are ballhogs

TylerSL
10-19-2010, 08:43 PM
Deeyum.... If 5 championships is damaging to one's team, then Bryant should keep damaging.

Or did you mean damaging to the OTHER team?

hate to break it to ya, Kobe is a ball hog. Face facts........

TylerSL
10-19-2010, 08:46 PM
deleted

DODGERS&LAKERS
10-19-2010, 08:58 PM
deleted

If Kobe is a ball hog for taking 19.3 shots per game for his career, what is Lebron? He has taken 20.8 shots per game for his career. Wade has taken 18.4 shots per game. Is he a ball hog? Both of their usage numbers are higher than Bryants too. Seems like they dominate the ball far more

footballer2369
10-19-2010, 09:19 PM
If Kobe is a ball hog for taking 19.3 shots per game for his career, what is Lebron? He has taken 20.8 shots per game for his career. Wade has taken 18.4 shots per game. Is he a ball hog? Both of their usage numbers are higher than Bryants too. Seems like they dominate the ball far more

There's a sneaky little boogar in this thread who likes to manipulate stats to support his argument...

don't check those assist rates : x

TylerSL
10-19-2010, 09:44 PM
If Kobe is a ball hog for taking 19.3 shots per game for his career, what is Lebron? He has taken 20.8 shots per game for his career. Wade has taken 18.4 shots per game. Is he a ball hog? Both of their usage numbers are higher than Bryants too. Seems like they dominate the ball far more

Wade and Lebron both have higher USG% because their teams needed them to score more. Wade and Lebron both have assist% of around 40% while Kobe's is like 23%. That makes all the diffence. They put up almost as many shots as Kobe because the ball is in their hands more (hence the higher USG%) because who else on their teams were a playmaker. Kobe has always had at least 1 other playmaker. Kobe had Shaq, right after Shaq left he still had Odom, and when they traded for Gasol, its been Gasol. Wade had Shaq for a short time but other than that Wade and Lebron have never had another playmaker so they had to have the higher USG%. If Kobe had the same USG% as them then he would probably be taking about 23-24 shots a game and I know that isnt much more than Wade or Lebron, but they are both top 10 in assits, and their Assist% is out the roof while Kobe has never had very many assits, and his assist% career high is 28.5%. Wade's highest Assist% is 40.5%, and Lebron's is 41.8%. Kobe's highest Assist per game was 5.3. Wade's highest was 7.5 (2 times), and Lebron's highest was 8.6. That would not make Lebron and Wade ballhogs.

DODGERS&LAKERS
10-19-2010, 11:47 PM
Wade and Lebron both have higher USG% because their teams needed them to score more. Wade and Lebron both have assist% of around 40% while Kobe's is like 23%. That makes all the diffence. They put up almost as many shots as Kobe because the ball is in their hands more (hence the higher USG%) because who else on their teams were a playmaker. Kobe has always had at least 1 other playmaker. Kobe had Shaq, right after Shaq left he still had Odom, and when they traded for Gasol, its been Gasol. Wade had Shaq for a short time but other than that Wade and Lebron have never had another playmaker so they had to have the higher USG%. If Kobe had the same USG% as them then he would probably be taking about 23-24 shots a game and I know that isnt much more than Wade or Lebron, but they are both top 10 in assits, and their Assist% is out the roof while Kobe has never had very many assits, and his assist% career high is 28.5%. Wade's highest Assist% is 40.5%, and Lebron's is 41.8%. Kobe's highest Assist per game was 5.3. Wade's highest was 7.5 (2 times), and Lebron's highest was 8.6. That would not make Lebron and Wade ballhogs.

I dont know where you get your numbers from but they are almost all wrong.
Lie 1, you said Kobe's highest assist per game was 5.3. When in fact his has eclipsed that mark 5 separate times with his peak being 6.0 in 04-05, 5.9 ast in 02-03, 5.5 ast in 01-02, 5.4 assist in 06-07 and 07-08 respectively.

Your were right about his career assist%. But you are way off on Lebrons and Wades. You said "Wade and Lebron both have ast % around 40%" When in fact, they have an assist percentage of 34.8 for Wade, and 34.1 for Lebron.

Where I will give you credit for is understanding and comprehending that Kobe has not needed to put up big assist numbers, due to his teammates and the offense that Phil runs. Kobe's assist numbers have not been gaudy, but somehow, the Lakers have been in the top 10 in assist 8 times in the last ten years. They have placed 9th, 6th, 4th, 2nd, and 16th the past 5 years that Kobe has been the main man. So Im glad you that understand that those assist% you throw out at me, mean very little in the grand scheme of things. I dont have to point out to you that both Lebrons and Wades teams have been far worse off in the assist ratio compared to Kobe's. Maybe to help out their own teams, they should try to average more than 7 assist a game. Kobe does not have to worry about that problem though, his teams and their offensive flow seem to be doing just fine with him as the main assist man only average 5.5 assist. I dont know how they do it with their main distributor only having a 23.5 assist ratio :rolleyes:

DODGERS&LAKERS
10-19-2010, 11:48 PM
There's a sneaky little boogar in this thread who likes to manipulate stats to support his argument...

don't check those assist rates : x

I am sneaky aren't I?:)

Dont check that post above where I take a dump on assist rates.

justinnum1
10-20-2010, 12:12 AM
If Kobe is a ball hog for taking 19.3 shots per game for his career, what is Lebron? He has taken 20.8 shots per game for his career. Wade has taken 18.4 shots per game. Is he a ball hog? Both of their usage numbers are higher than Bryants too. Seems like they dominate the ball far more

:facepalm:

TylerSL
10-20-2010, 10:50 AM
I dont know where you get your numbers from but they are almost all wrong.
Lie 1, you said Kobe's highest assist per game was 5.3. When in fact his has eclipsed that mark 5 separate times with his peak being 6.0 in 04-05, 5.9 ast in 02-03, 5.5 ast in 01-02, 5.4 assist in 06-07 and 07-08 respectively.

Your were right about his career assist%. But you are way off on Lebrons and Wades. You said "Wade and Lebron both have ast % around 40%" When in fact, they have an assist percentage of 34.8 for Wade, and 34.1 for Lebron.

Where I will give you credit for is understanding and comprehending that Kobe has not needed to put up big assist numbers, due to his teammates and the offense that Phil runs. Kobe's assist numbers have not been gaudy, but somehow, the Lakers have been in the top 10 in assist 8 times in the last ten years. They have placed 9th, 6th, 4th, 2nd, and 16th the past 5 years that Kobe has been the main man. So Im glad you that understand that those assist% you throw out at me, mean very little in the grand scheme of things. I dont have to point out to you that both Lebrons and Wades teams have been far worse off in the assist ratio compared to Kobe's. Maybe to help out their own teams, they should try to average more than 7 assist a game. Kobe does not have to worry about that problem though, his teams and their offensive flow seem to be doing just fine with him as the main assist man only average 5.5 assist. I dont know how they do it with their main distributor only having a 23.5 assist ratio :rolleyes:

k, il give you the fact about the assits. I wasnt trying to lie, I just read through it too fast. Now the reason why Wade and Lebron are not ball hogs is because yes they have to run the team, therefor the ball will be in their hands. If the ball is in your hands that much and you are expected to score 25+ each night (as Lebron and Wade were asked) you would put up those kinds of shots as well. Kobe (even tho his USG% is somewhere close to Wade and Lebron's) doesnt have to try to score 25+ points each night because the Lakers could still probably win 50 games if Kobe only averaged 15 points per game, yet he still puts more shots than Wade and almost as many as Lebron. If you put Kobe on the 2009-2010 Heat team they go about .500 or if you put Kobe on the 2009-2010 Cavaliers, they dont win 60 games because Wade and Lebron ran their teams while Kobe has always (exept the 2 years after Shaq) had a good team around him and he has been the superstar. That is why I say Kobe is a ballhog and Wade and Lebron are not. If by the end of the year Wade or Lebron have a higher USG% than Kobe, but Kobe has more assists per game then that would make Lebron and Wade ballhogs. But I figure they will both be top 10 in assits again.

DODGERS&LAKERS
10-20-2010, 11:22 AM
k, il give you the fact about the assits. I wasnt trying to lie, I just read through it too fast. Now the reason why Wade and Lebron are not ball hogs is because yes they have to run the team, therefor the ball will be in their hands. If the ball is in your hands that much and you are expected to score 25+ each night (as Lebron and Wade were asked) you would put up those kinds of shots as well. Kobe (even tho his USG% is somewhere close to Wade and Lebron's) doesnt have to try to score 25+ points each night because the Lakers could still probably win 50 games if Kobe only averaged 15 points per game, yet he still puts more shots than Wade and almost as many as Lebron. If you put Kobe on the 2009-2010 Heat team they go about .500 or if you put Kobe on the 2009-2010 Cavaliers, they dont win 60 games because Wade and Lebron ran their teams while Kobe has always (exept the 2 years after Shaq) had a good team around him and he has been the superstar. That is why I say Kobe is a ballhog and Wade and Lebron are not. If by the end of the year Wade or Lebron have a higher USG% than Kobe, but Kobe has more assists per game then that would make Lebron and Wade ballhogs. But I figure they will both be top 10 in assits again.

Brother, I am not saying Lebron and Wade are ball hogs. I was giving you $h1t. What my main point was is that you can not use assist% to tell me that Kobe is a ball hog when his teams have some of the best passing numbers in the league for his career. If lets say Byron Scott was the Lakers coach for Kobe's entire career, and he ran the same scheme for Kobe as he did for Jason Kidd and Chris Paul, Kobe's assist ratio would be much higher. Thats how Byron runs his offenses. With the pick and pop or pick and roll which puts the ball in his playmakers hands and makes him responsible to judge whether to shoot, or make the easiest pass for the assist. If you put Kobe in that offense, which is the same type of offenses the Cavs and Heat ran, then you get the same type of numbers. Now, the question would be how would his turnover ratio be? He does not have as good as a court vision as Lebron, so he would average far more turnovers. He might not turn it over as much as Wade does, but we will never know because he has not been put in that situation.

The triangle makes everyone on the court a play maker. Theres a reason that the previous three years to Phil Jackson joining the Bulls, MJ's assist ratio was 27.0, 34.7, and 28.6. Then as soon as Phil implements his triangle offense, MJ assist ratio drops to 25.2, 25.7, 25.2, 24.2, 21.2, 21.2, all the way down to 18.0 in the 97-98 season. Was Jordan more of a ball hog than he was pre Phil? Or does the offense a team runs, change players roles, and ask them to not have the ball in their hands all the time, and trust that their teammates are going to make the right read?

footballer2369
10-20-2010, 05:06 PM
I am sneaky aren't I?:)

Dont check that post above where I take a dump on assist rates.

Your line of thinking is completely flawed though.

The theory that "he doesn't have to do this" or "he doesn't have to do that" is irrelevant...The question is not who is forced to have what role in the offense.

The question is who hogs the ball the most and that is easily Kobe with his high usage and low ast%. This is undeniable, simple truth.

Roles or what they're supposed to do is irrelevant... What they actually do is all that matters in this thread.

JordansBulls
10-20-2010, 05:34 PM
Ballhog = someone with high ppg but low fg% or ts%.

DODGERS&LAKERS
10-20-2010, 06:33 PM
Your line of thinking is completely flawed though.

The theory that "he doesn't have to do this" or "he doesn't have to do that" is irrelevant...The question is not who is forced to have what role in the offense.

The question is who hogs the ball the most and that is easily Kobe with his high usage and low ast%. This is undeniable, simple truth.

Roles or what they're supposed to do is irrelevant... What they actually do is all that matters in this thread.

Okay question, would you say that Jordan was a ball hog once he started winning championships? He had some of the highest usages in league history, and still only had 25% assist ratio.

I find it funny because that is typically when people started to say that Jordan finally started to trust his teammates. Even though according to you, he was more trusting when he had higher assist%, and then he became a ball hog like Kobe while he was winning championships

MickeyMgl
10-21-2010, 03:04 AM
Face facts........

State a fact first.

Chronz
10-21-2010, 02:41 PM
Obviously Monta

footballer2369
10-21-2010, 03:38 PM
Okay question, would you say that Jordan was a ball hog once he started winning championships? He had some of the highest usages in league history, and still only had 25% assist ratio.

I find it funny because that is typically when people started to say that Jordan finally started to trust his teammates. Even though according to you, he was more trusting when he had higher assist%, and then he became a ball hog like Kobe while he was winning championships

Jordan was a ballhog no doubt... but he was many times more efficient than Kobe...

JordansBulls
10-21-2010, 03:54 PM
Okay question, would you say that Jordan was a ball hog once he started winning championships? He had some of the highest usages in league history, and still only had 25% assist ratio.

I find it funny because that is typically when people started to say that Jordan finally started to trust his teammates. Even though according to you, he was more trusting when he had higher assist%, and then he became a ball hog like Kobe while he was winning championships

When you are leading the league in PER and or Win Shares, you are pretty much the most productive player in the league. Can't really say someone is a ball hog if they are productive over the rest of the league unless they are constantly trying to get stats when up 20+ points in the 4th.

DODGERS&LAKERS
10-21-2010, 04:27 PM
When you are leading the league in PER and or Win Shares, you are pretty much the most productive player in the league. Can't really say someone is a ball hog if they are productive over the rest of the league unless they are constantly trying to get stats when up 20+ points in the 4th.

I was not saying Jordan was a ball hog. Quite the opposite. I was just showing that the offense a team runs affects assist ratio's as well as overall assist. Jordan had far more assist when he would run his iso's. But his assist dropped once his teammates got better, and they were able to run an offense where it is not predicated off the shot or pass of one player. I have never thought MJ was a ball hog. He did what he had to do for his team to win.

DODGERS&LAKERS
10-21-2010, 04:37 PM
Jordan was a ballhog no doubt... but he was many times more efficient than Kobe...

Is there so much of a difference between a ts% of 57% to a ts% of 56%? Or an efg% of 51% to an efg% of 49%? I dont think so. Not enough to say one player was many times more efficient than another.

Is Kevin Durant a ball hog? He had a 32% usage rating and only 13.5 assist ratio averaging 20 shots a game.

footballer2369
10-21-2010, 07:08 PM
Is there so much of a difference between a ts% of 57% to a ts% of 56%? Or an efg% of 51% to an efg% of 49%? I dont think so. Not enough to say one player was many times more efficient than another.

Is Kevin Durant a ball hog? He had a 32% usage rating and only 13.5 assist ratio averaging 20 shots a game.

Yes, but again, it's more acceptable than Kobe because he's more efficient...

There are a lot of ball hogs in this league. Kobe happens to be one of the biggest and not one of the most efficient.

Obviously there are many worse offenders and many less efficient than Kobe as well.

valade16
10-21-2010, 07:52 PM
Is there so much of a difference between a ts% of 57% to a ts% of 56%? Or an efg% of 51% to an efg% of 49%? I dont think so. Not enough to say one player was many times more efficient than another.

Is Kevin Durant a ball hog? He had a 32% usage rating and only 13.5 assist ratio averaging 20 shots a game.

Those stats are showing that kobe is almost as efficient at putting the ball in the basket as MJ, but he was talking about overall efficiency, such as PER or ws%. If i remember correctly Jordans is like 27.9 and kobes is 23.5...

The reason people think he is a ballhog is a combination of all stats. He has low ast%, something lebron and wade dont have, but so did jordan in phils offense. Except jordan, like wade and lebron have higher per.

So in conclusion:
Higher per, usage%, ast%, ws% = MJ, leBron, and wade

Lower per, ast%, ws%, just as usage = kobe.

Thats why people think hes a ballhog

DODGERS&LAKERS
10-21-2010, 07:57 PM
Yes, but again, it's more acceptable than Kobe because he's more efficient...

There are a lot of ball hogs in this league. Kobe happens to be one of the biggest and not one of the most efficient.

Obviously there are many worse offenders and many less efficient than Kobe as well.

Well at least you are consistant. We just have differing views on the definition of a ball hog. I dont consider Durant to be a ball hog at all. The games I have watched him, he does not seem to have the ball in his hands for more than a second. He comes off screens that were designed by the coach for a catch and shoot. He is doing his job. Westbrook is the one that is supposed to be getting the assist. And I just dont think its right to call Durant a ball hog becuase he is doing what his coaches ask of him.

DODGERS&LAKERS
10-21-2010, 08:41 PM
Those stats are showing that kobe is almost as efficient at putting the ball in the basket as MJ, but he was talking about overall efficiency, such as PER or ws%. If i remember correctly Jordans is like 27.9 and kobes is 23.5...

The reason people think he is a ballhog is a combination of all stats. He has low ast%, something lebron and wade dont have, but so did jordan in phils offense. Except jordan, like wade and lebron have higher per.

So in conclusion:
Higher per, usage%, ast%, ws% = MJ, leBron, and wade

Lower per, ast%, ws%, just as usage = kobe.

Thats why people think hes a ballhog

Why would a stat like PER be drawn into an offensive discussion when it measure defensive stat accumulation as well?

If we are talking about whether a player is a ball hog or not, I think ts% and efg% are a good indicator if that player had a right to be taking so many shots. Secondly, if that player has a low assist%, determine why that may be the case. Be it the offensive scheme, position, teammates, or if in fact he may just be a ball hog. And in Kobe's case, I say it is the offensive scheme. Earlier in the thread I showed how the change in scheme caused MJ's assist% to take a plummet from a career high of 34.7%, all the way down to an average of 23% playing in the triangle, with a low of 18% in 97-98. Then, the first year in Washington, he goes back up to 31% assist ratio. So my question is, does you or anyone think that he was a ball hog because his assist ratio was 23% while he was winning championships playing in the triangle.

I also think position is a major factor. Lebron is considered a point forward. Wade is considered a combo guard. Kobe is a shooting guard. Durant is a small forward. If Kobe was a point guard and his assist% was 23%, I would be the first one on here screaming from the roof tops about the ball hog Kobe Bryant. But that is not the case, and I don’t think that we should make it out to be as if it is

DODGERS&LAKERS
10-21-2010, 08:57 PM
Also, if you do think that the scheme has something to do with it, consider that Kobe has played in that scheme his entire career. Kobe's highest assist % came the year when Phil was gone. Kobe played in that pick and roll/iso offense for half a season. He averaged the most assist and the highest assist % in his career. That was while playing with 11 new teammates from the year before who were not very talented. If Kobe was truly a ball hog, his assist% should have dropped that season. Instead they rose because he had a different roll than he has in the triangle offense.

DODGERS&LAKERS
11-23-2010, 12:56 AM
Your line of thinking is completely flawed though.

The theory that "he doesn't have to do this" or "he doesn't have to do that" is irrelevant...The question is not who is forced to have what role in the offense.

The question is who hogs the ball the most and that is easily Kobe with his high usage and low ast%. This is undeniable, simple truth.

Roles or what they're supposed to do is irrelevant... What they actually do is all that matters in this thread.

So is Wade the biggest ball hog in the league? He has a usage % of 32% but only an assist% of 18.7. Do you still think roles have nothing to do with stats?

Raph12
11-23-2010, 01:11 AM
Superstar - Wade
Allstar - Randolph
Star - Monta
Avg Player - Beasley

rufo4100
11-23-2010, 09:52 PM
Lebron

DODGERS&LAKERS
04-24-2011, 04:43 AM
k, il give you the fact about the assits. I wasnt trying to lie, I just read through it too fast. Now the reason why Wade and Lebron are not ball hogs is because yes they have to run the team, therefor the ball will be in their hands. If the ball is in your hands that much and you are expected to score 25+ each night (as Lebron and Wade were asked) you would put up those kinds of shots as well. Kobe (even tho his USG% is somewhere close to Wade and Lebron's) doesnt have to try to score 25+ points each night because the Lakers could still probably win 50 games if Kobe only averaged 15 points per game, yet he still puts more shots than Wade and almost as many as Lebron. If you put Kobe on the 2009-2010 Heat team they go about .500 or if you put Kobe on the 2009-2010 Cavaliers, they dont win 60 games because Wade and Lebron ran their teams while Kobe has always (exept the 2 years after Shaq) had a good team around him and he has been the superstar. That is why I say Kobe is a ballhog and Wade and Lebron are not. If by the end of the year Wade or Lebron have a higher USG% than Kobe, but Kobe has more assists per game then that would make Lebron and Wade ballhogs. But I figure they will both be top 10 in assits again.

Sorry Tyler, your boy Wade turned into a ballhog. :) His assist ratio fell from 36.4 to 23.5. Even though his teammates improved greatly. Well, guess I was right again. Assist ratio's mean jack diddly!

DODGERS&LAKERS
04-24-2011, 04:51 AM
Your line of thinking is completely flawed though.

The theory that "he doesn't have to do this" or "he doesn't have to do that" is irrelevant...The question is not who is forced to have what role in the offense.

The question is who hogs the ball the most and that is easily Kobe with his high usage and low ast%. This is undeniable, simple truth.

Roles or what they're supposed to do is irrelevant... What they actually do is all that matters in this thread.

Still feel this way footballer? Everything I said would happen came to fruition this year. Wade's roll changed, his assist total and assist ratio fell. His usage remained the same, but his his passing declined. Why is that? :eyebrow:

Still think Kobe is a ball hog because of his assist%?

RaidersLakers24
04-26-2011, 09:38 PM
Lebron James Derrick rose and Chris Paul are ball hogs they have the ball 90% of the time and no way in hell Kobe is in that category maybe in 05-06 but now he is no ballhog

RaidersLakers24
04-26-2011, 09:42 PM
stay with me its a long list lol
Al Harrington
Monta Ellis
Ron Artest
Michael Beasley
Ben Gordan
Kobe Bryant
Gilbert Arenas
Kevin Durant
Paul Peirce
Carmelo Anthony
JR Smith
Tracy McGrady
TJ Ford
Kevin Martin
Eddie Curry
Luol Deng
Zach Randolph
Kenny Hasbrouck (cant wait til the Heat cut him :pray:)


that is in no particular order, all of those players are ballhogs

Lol and no mention of wade or Lebron hahaha oh heat fans wade and bron are bigger ball hogs then kobe

Cano4prez
04-26-2011, 11:26 PM
Lebron James Derrick rose and Chris Paul are ball hogs they have the ball 90% of the time and no way in hell Kobe is in that category maybe in 05-06 but now he is no ballhog

LeBron's USG% is 31.5, Kobe's is 35.1%. LeBron's AST% is 34.9, Kobe's is 26.7%.

BleedingGreen9
04-27-2011, 02:09 AM
if big baby get the ball in the paint it aint coming back out

Rentzias
04-27-2011, 10:04 AM
stay with me its a long list lol
Al Harrington


C'mon, he passes to the other team all the time.

DODGERS&LAKERS
04-27-2011, 02:21 PM
LeBron's USG% is 31.5, Kobe's is 35.1%. LeBron's AST% is 34.9, Kobe's is 26.7%.

What is that supposed to prove? Lebron was the Heats point guard on offense. He should have a higher percentage of his usage end in an assist. Kobe is not asked to be that type of player. The Lakers are a far better passing team than the Heat though. With more assist and a higher assist percentage.

what would you rather have? 1 player with a low assist percentage, but the team has a very good assist percentage. Or have a 1 player responsible for all assist, and the team subsequently have a very low assist percentage. I don't know about you but I like winning basketball.

Gators123
04-27-2011, 07:39 PM
This thread is old..

DODGERS&LAKERS
04-27-2011, 10:22 PM
This thread is old..

It is. I bumped it because I like to gloat. And I also felt that the evidence from the season helpes prove my point to footballer

jzero
04-27-2011, 10:24 PM
Lebron James Derrick rose and Chris Paul are ball hogs they have the ball 90% of the time and no way in hell Kobe is in that category maybe in 05-06 but now he is no ballhog

you are the biggest homer in PSD
you don't know a thng about basketball

RaidersLakers24
04-28-2011, 02:33 AM
you are the biggest homer in PSD
you don't know a thng about basketball

Oh boy I bet I know alot more then you and yes I'm a homer so what?? Ball hog = a player who always had the ball... get it got it good