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View Full Version : In 5 years will Rondos spotlight be gone?



Forbo
08-21-2010, 01:42 PM
I am just guessing Rondo will be in light for a huge difference all his easy assists will likely be gone. He will have to run an entire different team.

Players likely gone
KG
Ray Allen
Shaq
Jermaine
Paul Pierce

Doc Rivers probably aswell wont be with the Boston Celtics

Does anyone think Rondo in 5 years will lose his all star status and all the attention he gets? Most of his play has been from the veterans he has around him, they spread the floor which opens for him to score easy buckets in the lane. He cant shoot and most of his scoring his from the layups he easily gets.

DaBUU
08-21-2010, 01:43 PM
oh for sure

thescore53
08-21-2010, 01:56 PM
says a bulls fan ^^

Hellcrooner
08-21-2010, 01:58 PM
Do you realize that all these people do expire at THE SAME TIME?


they will be gone and celtics will get another TWO stars with the cap space in one offseason.

Maybe DIWIGHT

Hawkeye15
08-21-2010, 01:58 PM
this is impossible to answer

Minimal
08-21-2010, 02:00 PM
No, he will be as great as he is now, maybe even better.

NYKNYGNYY
08-21-2010, 02:00 PM
as much as i hate boston i dont think so hes got to much heart

heattiltheend94
08-21-2010, 02:00 PM
Nope. Although his assists will go down, he will still be a star I believe. His points on the other hand shall skyrocket and I'm guessing he will average around 20's.

sofargone
08-21-2010, 02:00 PM
Do you realize that all these people do expire at THE SAME TIME?


they will be gone and celtics will get another TWO stars with the cap space in one offseason.

Maybe DIWIGHT
This.

nanablvd
08-21-2010, 02:08 PM
Not necessarily. Rondo, along with Westbrook and Kidd, are the best rebounders in the PG position. Rondo may improve his shooting years later; Tony Parker couldnt shoot early in his career too. Rondo may need another star to lead Boston to succeed and Boston will be expected to get him one. I foresee Rondo to continue being one of the best PGs in the league for years to come as long as Boston is committed to build a viable roster around him.

dhopisthename
08-21-2010, 02:12 PM
I don't think so when all of the celtics players expire in 2 years they will then rebuild around him and he will be fine

Antipod
08-21-2010, 02:14 PM
Rondo is an elite PG and in 5 years he may be better or at least stay the same(excepting serious injuries)

markbutter
08-21-2010, 02:34 PM
I am just guessing Rondo will be in light for a huge difference all his easy assists will likely be gone. He will have to run an entire different team.

Players likely gone
KG
Ray Allen
Shaq
Jermaine
Paul Pierce

Doc Rivers probably aswell wont be with the Boston Celtics

Does anyone think Rondo in 5 years will lose his all star status and all the attention he gets? Most of his play has been from the veterans he has around him, they spread the floor which opens for him to score easy buckets in the lane. He cant shoot and most of his scoring his from the layups he easily gets.


Nope. He's really playing with 3 possible future HOF (Garnett, Pierce, Allen) and a 4th this year Shaq. He's been kept in line by the trio in terms of keeping his ego checked. It's easy to defer and look like a great PG in those circumstances. Assuming Bos will sign another two "all-stars" with the given cap room when these contracts expire is a bit of wishful thinking. Pierce will be on the definite downswing, Allen is two years with an option on the second and Shaq's is a one year deal. Who is going to want to come to Boston under those circumstances ?

Plus, until he gets a jumper (there's a reason Kobe had 11 def rebounds in game 7) and can hit FT better than 60%, his "all-star" days will be behind him because he's a pick as much as for what the team does as anything. Sure, he'll get 15 pts, 6 rebs & 6-10 assists. But remember some of his assists are Allen curling around a screen and open looks by Pierce as shooters always make PG better in this case with Rondo.

Would you trade him for CP3, Nash, Rose, D-Will ?? most probably not. Jennings, Stuckey, Nelson, T. Evans or Brooks ?? maybe yes, maybe no depending on the system and teammates. Therefore, he's benefited greatly from the system & teammates IMHO.

jim51990
08-21-2010, 02:36 PM
he will be even better once he gets the team to be officially his

MrfadeawayJB
08-21-2010, 02:47 PM
Interesting point.... I think he will flame out for a while, but a player like Rondo needs an athletic big man and be surrounded by shooters. Rondo scores more off penetration, so if he has no one to kick out to, he is one dimensional and his assists will go way down.

Geargo Wallace
08-21-2010, 02:55 PM
haterrrrrrrrr

TheWatcher34
08-21-2010, 02:56 PM
Laker fan....

Rafer17
08-21-2010, 03:01 PM
Such an easy excuse for the Rondo haters...He will still excel he is a top 4 PG now, and he is only going to improve (with or without good teammates)

Iodine
08-21-2010, 04:28 PM
this is impossible to answer

exactly

Super.
08-21-2010, 04:44 PM
No, because all of those big contracts expire at once.

We can bring in some stars...like Dwight :D

Rivera
08-21-2010, 04:49 PM
Do you realize that all these people do expire at THE SAME TIME?


they will be gone and celtics will get another TWO stars with the cap space in one offseason.

Maybe DIWIGHT

:cry:

orlando aint givin dwight up all that easy plus no income tax in FLA

Niro
08-21-2010, 04:55 PM
he will still be a star..his assists could go down but i expect his scoring to go up as he should be a better shooter

Yanks All Day
08-21-2010, 05:08 PM
He only keeps getting better. The Celtics were Rondo's team this year, and for the years going forward. I don't see why he would all of a sudden fall off. If anything, there is a better chance of him solidifying himself as a top 3-5 PG in the league than him losing any spotlight.

DoJoTheSlasher
08-21-2010, 05:10 PM
By then he will have developed a better offensive game. Passing ability and rebounds and defense will all still be there.

beasted86
08-21-2010, 05:15 PM
Rondo is Mookie Blaylock #2.

He can't be your 1st or 2nd scoring option, but he can defend, rack up steals and assists, and give you 13-17 PPG but they will be low % if you ask him to score to much.

97NYer
08-21-2010, 05:15 PM
Nope. If anything Rondo improves.

Iodine
08-21-2010, 05:22 PM
Rondo is Mookie Blaylock #2.

He can't be your 1st or 2nd scoring option, but he can defend, rack up steals and assists, and give you 13-17 PPG but they will be low % if you ask him to score to much.

You do realize he's shot over 50% for the last two years right? and has a TS% in the 54% range during that time

Kashmir13579
08-21-2010, 05:25 PM
I am just guessing Rondo will be in light for a huge difference all his easy assists will likely be gone. He will have to run an entire different team.

Players likely gone
KG
Ray Allen
Shaq
Jermaine
Paul Pierce

Doc Rivers probably aswell wont be with the Boston Celtics

Does anyone think Rondo in 5 years will lose his all star status and all the attention he gets? Most of his play has been from the veterans he has around him, they spread the floor which opens for him to score easy buckets in the lane. He cant shoot and most of his scoring his from the layups he easily gets.

wow, this is wrong. celtics are gonna stay good. they are the celtics. rondo is a championship caliber player. a franchise player. you think when kg and allen retire he's all of a sudden gonna lose his court vision, i.q, and elite passing and finishing abilities? thats not how it works, bozo. some people don't understand that rondo is the best player on the celtics. he makes them as good as they are. learn the game.

beasted86
08-21-2010, 05:26 PM
You do realize he's shot over 50% for the last two years right? and has a TS% in the 54% range during that time

Yes, I know, and I don't really care.

I know when Garnett went down and he had to score more, he had putrid percentages in the 09 playoffs. Everyone was enamored with him averaging near a triple double, but his efficiency still stunk.

I can only imagine when not only Garnett, but Allen, and Pierce are all gone as well. He might still get his 13-17, but it will be in the low 40s just like last year, and just like Mookie.

Kashmir13579
08-21-2010, 05:27 PM
Nope. If anything Rondo improves.

+1, i think this was a lakers fan that made this thread. in other words, he wishes they had a young talent like rondo to lead his team into the next generation.

zambo4president
08-21-2010, 05:30 PM
Rondo has a spotlight?

Kashmir13579
08-21-2010, 05:30 PM
:cry:

orlando aint givin dwight up all that easy plus no income tax in FLA

just like shaq, penny, and t-mac. lmao.

Steelers23_06
08-21-2010, 05:38 PM
common lets be for real rondo was amazing did you see him throughout the season and the playoffs. he has a well rounded game knows how to attack the rim. also the fact that he played with them made him elite and he's going to stay there. did you see how he destroyed mo...that was insane mo looked like he was in slow motion. he doesnt just feed them the rock but the offense runs through them like the orchestra and a maestro. this guy will be very successful and a HOF'er

Kashmir13579
08-21-2010, 05:38 PM
common lets be for real rondo was amazing did you see him throughout the season and the playoffs. he has a well rounded game knows how to attack the rim. also the fact that he played with them made him elite and he's going to stay there. did you see how he destroyed mo...that was insane mo looked like he was in slow motion. he doesnt just feed them the rock but the offense runs through them like the orchestra and a maestro. this guy will be very successful and a HOF'er

thats real talk.

Iodine
08-21-2010, 06:50 PM
Yes, I know, and I don't really care.

I know when Garnett went down and he had to score more, he had putrid percentages in the 09 playoffs. Everyone was enamored with him averaging near a triple double, but his efficiency still stunk.

I can only imagine when not only Garnett, but Allen, and Pierce are all gone as well. He might still get his 13-17, but it will be in the low 40s just like last year, and just like Mookie.

So your ignoring facts for your arguement?

bostncelts34
08-21-2010, 07:22 PM
How can you say that someone who is a only getting better each year will be gone after 5 years? Celtics will have so much cap room when the cast all leaves in 2 years. Rondo is only going to get better. I dont understand why people think that his team is the only reason he puts up good numbers. RONDO runs this team. Hence the reason he is running team USA at the point, he is a phenomenal leader.

xbrackattackx
08-21-2010, 08:56 PM
No way in five years he will be even better with all the experience and he will be leading the team.

smiddy012
08-21-2010, 09:04 PM
more like 2 years...

Hawkeye15
08-21-2010, 09:09 PM
common lets be for real rondo was amazing did you see him throughout the season and the playoffs. he has a well rounded game knows how to attack the rim. also the fact that he played with them made him elite and he's going to stay there. did you see how he destroyed mo...that was insane mo looked like he was in slow motion. he doesnt just feed them the rock but the offense runs through them like the orchestra and a maestro. this guy will be very successful and a HOF'er

any good PG would eat Mo alive

BayHuStLE
08-21-2010, 09:17 PM
No, he will be as great as he is now, maybe even better.

maybe he'll join the heat, lol, jpjpjp

Swashcuff
08-21-2010, 09:33 PM
If you actually watch the man play and understand anything about basketball you'd never agree with the OPs logic. Unless you're blindly hating. He's a quality PG regardless of whom he plays with.

SouljahPhil...
08-21-2010, 09:36 PM
he is a quality pg...If his jumper will improve he will be quite unguardable..

SouljahPhil...
08-21-2010, 09:40 PM
wow...C's has good positioning on cap after 2 years..they could land dwight indeed.

REALLYYYYY?
08-21-2010, 09:44 PM
this is impossible to answer

lol. good call.

Hawkeye15
08-21-2010, 09:48 PM
for anyone who thinks Rondo would be far more inefficient than he is now, I just don't see it. If anything, sure, he was given the best situation possible early in his development. But the result is, he is a great PG, and will continue to be a smart, efficient, playmaker who defends.
Rondo, due to circumstances, is a top 5 PG in the NBA. In 5 years, I would think he will still be very good. Now, as decline phase goes, Rondo doesn't factor to have a long, dominant career. He relies on athletic ability big time to penetrate, defend, etc. He is a terrible shooter, turns it over, and will probably not be a guy who can play into his mid 30's with much efficiency.
Time will tell, but in 5 years, Rondo should still be one of the better PG's in the NBA

EaglePride615
08-21-2010, 09:52 PM
people act like a good franchise like boston will just stop competing and accept that 3 of their best players will retire and not get any other players, this is an unanswerable question

Mc Lovin
08-21-2010, 09:58 PM
I am just guessing Rondo will be in light for a huge difference all his easy assists will likely be gone. He will have to run an entire different team.

Players likely gone
KG
Ray Allen
Shaq
Jermaine
Paul Pierce

Doc Rivers probably aswell wont be with the Boston Celtics

Does anyone think Rondo in 5 years will lose his all star status and all the attention he gets? Most of his play has been from the veterans he has around him, they spread the floor which opens for him to score easy buckets in the lane. He cant shoot and most of his scoring his from the layups he easily gets.

In 5 years Rondo will be the best PG in basketball by a wide margain. There isn't another PG in the NBA that can do what Rondo does. Score, pass, rebound, and play great defense. He does everything well.

Hiphopopotamus
08-21-2010, 10:05 PM
In 5 years Rondo will still be very good, will never be the best pg until he can make a defender step out and guard him, though.

Jewelz0376
08-21-2010, 10:08 PM
In 5 years Rondo will be the best PG in basketball by a wide margain. There isn't another PG in the NBA that can do what Rondo does. Score, pass, rebound, and play great defense. He does everything well.

O 4real??? Cp3 and Dwill are retiring soon or something??

69centers
08-21-2010, 10:10 PM
I am just guessing Rondo will be in light for a huge difference all his easy assists will likely be gone. He will have to run an entire different team.

Players likely gone
KG
Ray Allen
Shaq
Jermaine
Paul Pierce

Doc Rivers probably aswell wont be with the Boston Celtics

Does anyone think Rondo in 5 years will lose his all star status and all the attention he gets? Most of his play has been from the veterans he has around him, they spread the floor which opens for him to score easy buckets in the lane. He cant shoot and most of his scoring his from the layups he easily gets.

Right, because Doc leaving will make him lose his all star status. His caliber of play will just plummet. :pity:

Put it this way, Rondo could get 10 assists with high school kids playing on his team, now and 5 years from now.

Kashmir13579
08-21-2010, 10:12 PM
O 4real??? Cp3 and Dwill are retiring soon or something??

rondos ceiling is higher.

Kashmir13579
08-21-2010, 10:26 PM
for anyone who thinks Rondo would be far more inefficient than he is now, I just don't see it. If anything, sure, he was given the best situation possible early in his development. But the result is, he is a great PG, and will continue to be a smart, efficient, playmaker who defends.
Rondo, due to circumstances, is a top 5 PG in the NBA. In 5 years, I would think he will still be very good. Now, as decline phase goes, Rondo doesn't factor to have a long, dominant career. He relies on athletic ability big time to penetrate, defend, etc. He is a terrible shooter, turns it over, and will probably not be a guy who can play into his mid 30's with much efficiency.
Time will tell, but in 5 years, Rondo should still be one of the better PG's in the NBA

here is where i disagree, Rondo's bball I.Q is so high that even when his athleticism declines he could still do something along the lines of what Steve Nash does to get his players open. also kobe was a high flier as a youngin' and he has now become much less of an above the rim type player. kobe is still amazing. athletic ball players who are as smart as they are physically gifted find ways to stay elite longer than players going on just athletic ability or a 43' vertical. with all that said, Rondo absolutely has to work on developing a jump shot. i'd hope he's shooting 1200 shots a day.

Jewelz0376
08-21-2010, 10:44 PM
rondos ceiling is higher.

how do you figure?

Sixerlover
08-21-2010, 10:53 PM
Rondo isn't going anywhere. I'm a Sixer fan and he is my favorite PG to watch. His intelligence, ball handling ability, court vision, rebounding, the way he gets to the basket, his defense, leadership.. 5 years from now he'll be a more athletic Jason Kidd (from the Nets days) and lead the league is assists every year. Like someone else said he can get 10 assists a night with 4 D3 players out there with him.

His ability to get his teammate the open shot is just outstanding

Kashmir13579
08-21-2010, 10:56 PM
how do you figure?

if he can develop a shot he will be able to do everything equal to or greater than than CP or DW. the rebounding ability is what i think puts him over the top.

RapOZo
08-21-2010, 10:57 PM
his game is based in a real great hustle, a lot of effort is put in his game, he is not a natural shooter, if 1 injure shows up and slow down his game a bit, God forbid, I don't see him doing fine from there on... his success is very fragile, he is a hard worker, but not talented enough to maintain such an all-star status for long

_KB24_
08-21-2010, 10:59 PM
I think so, unless he develops a reliable jumper. Good thread. Biggest factor when I look at Rose & Rondo is that Rose is still no where NEAR his potential.

xbrackattackx
08-21-2010, 11:01 PM
here is where i disagree, Rondo's bball I.Q is so high that even when his athleticism declines he could still do something along the lines of what Steve Nash does to get his players open. also kobe was a high flier as a youngin' and he has now become much less of an above the rim type player. kobe is still amazing. athletic ball players who are as smart as they are physically gifted find ways to stay elite longer than players going on just athletic ability or a 43' vertical. with all that said, Rondo absolutely has to work on developing a jump shot. i'd hope he's shooting 1200 shots a day.

Kobe can shoot though and Steve Nash is one of the greatest shooters. Shooters don't need athleticism. Rondo is amazing but he can't shoot great at all. So yea he will never be like Kobe and Nash, But he can be like Kidd a 35 year old playmaker.

Steelers23_06
08-21-2010, 11:11 PM
yea but people can become shooters look at lebron when he came in the league he couldnt shoot the three to save his life and he changed. same with kobe he wasnt known as a shooter as much more of a high flyer and richard jefferson the difference is they all had the ability rondo not so much but he has to keep improving.

sargon21
08-22-2010, 12:10 AM
^ same with rose and the mid-range jumper, now he's one of the best at it, players can improve their shots, but it seems like rondo has had plenty of time to do it and it just hasn't happened yet

boriquaabe
08-22-2010, 12:35 AM
The easiest thing for a player to learn to do is shoot the ball. Once you correct the form and do the repetitions you are bound to get better. He just needs to keep working with Mark Price and just get in the gym and keep shooting.

What?
08-22-2010, 12:44 AM
This season will be the deciding season as far as jumpshot and in the longterm play without big 3. Rondo is going into his 5th season not many players develop a new facet of there game going into there 5th and if it doesn't happen this season then it's not happening just like Dwight and his post moves. I don't watch him enough to know for sure but it sounds like his jumpshot hasn't shown much improvement after 4 seasons. Also has anyone heard anything about Rondo working on his jumpshot this summer just out of curiosity

Scarface-Bulls
08-22-2010, 12:51 AM
Rondo will still be an all-star calliber player....his assists may go down but his points may go up.

hugepatsfan
08-22-2010, 01:11 AM
Remember, Rondo only has 4 years of NBA experience right now. And he's only been a starter for 3 of them. I think people think of him as a finsished product just because they have seen him so much. He's still under 25!!! He has some growing up to do. Obviously he's going to suffer if he loses some good teamates - what DISTRIBUTING PG wouldn't? But he's a great player. He isn't going to turn into a puddle when the Big 3 retire.

Hawkeye15
08-22-2010, 01:27 AM
here is where i disagree, Rondo's bball I.Q is so high that even when his athleticism declines he could still do something along the lines of what Steve Nash does to get his players open. also kobe was a high flier as a youngin' and he has now become much less of an above the rim type player. kobe is still amazing. athletic ball players who are as smart as they are physically gifted find ways to stay elite longer than players going on just athletic ability or a 43' vertical. with all that said, Rondo absolutely has to work on developing a jump shot. i'd hope he's shooting 1200 shots a day.

as currently constructed, there is no way on earth Rondo can sustain an athletic decline. I honestly don't think I need to even elaborate this. You listed skill players. Rondo is not this....

PatsSoxKnicks
08-22-2010, 01:39 AM
rondos ceiling is higher.

Why? I mean its not like Paul or Williams are particularly old. Deron is 26, Paul is 25 and Rondo is 24. Pretty similar ages.

Here:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=willide01&y1=2008&p2=paulch01&y2=2009&p3=rondora01&y3=2010

Through age 23. Williams and Paul were both better shooters and both better passers (Ast% and limiting TOV%). Both had better offensive ratings as well. Now defensively and rebounding wise, Rondo is better but I value those skills less for a PG.

PrettyBoyJ
08-22-2010, 01:43 AM
I just curious to know, do ppl think Rondo will stay at the same level he is now?? he obviously is going to get better.. so we only can wait and see

PatsSoxKnicks
08-22-2010, 01:50 AM
if he can develop a shot he will be able to do everything equal to or greater than than CP or DW. the rebounding ability is what i think puts him over the top.

What could be considered the jump shot area (I think 10-15 ft would be a jump shot, not quite sure, might be too close):

10-15 ft
FG%
2007- 41.0
2008- 45.0
2009- 35.0
2010- 46.9

16-23 ft
FG%
2007- 27.0
2008- 43.0
2009- 40.0
2010- 33.0

http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Rajon%20Rondo

Rondo's numbers are all over the place, but he doesn't appear to have improved that much on his jump shot.

For those wondering, the league average is 39.9% for 10-15 ft and 39.7% for 16-23 ft.

boriquaabe
08-22-2010, 02:01 AM
Why? I mean its not like Paul or Williams are particularly old. Deron is 26, Paul is 25 and Rondo is 24. Pretty similar ages.

Here:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=willide01&y1=2008&p2=paulch01&y2=2009&p3=rondora01&y3=2010

Through age 23. Williams and Paul were both better shooters and both better passers (Ast% and limiting TOV%). Both had better offensive ratings as well. Now defensively and rebounding wise, Rondo is better but I value those skills less for a PG.

I think Rondo has more room to grown than Paul or Williams.

boriquaabe
08-22-2010, 02:02 AM
This season will be the deciding season as far as jumpshot and in the longterm play without big 3. Rondo is going into his 5th season not many players develop a new facet of there game going into there 5th and if it doesn't happen this season then it's not happening just like Dwight and his post moves. I don't watch him enough to know for sure but it sounds like his jumpshot hasn't shown much improvement after 4 seasons. Also has anyone heard anything about Rondo working on his jumpshot this summer just out of curiosity

I saw an improvement in his perimeter game. But it's going to take a couple of years for him to build confidence in it also.

PatsSoxKnicks
08-22-2010, 02:16 AM
I think Rondo has more room to grown than Paul or Williams.

Yeah? Why? I mean I could say I think Felton has more room to grow then Rondo but that wouldn't make me right. That would make me quite wrong.

Did you even bother to look at the stats I posted? Again, Paul and Williams are/(were at that stage in their career) better passers (assists and limiting turnovers) and more efficient shooters. Will Rondo continue to improve on his passing? Sure why not. But Williams and Paul could too.

And if you do value defense and rebounding for a PG, you could certainly make a case Rondo is/will be better then Williams. But I happen to think those 2 aspects are less important for a PG.

PatsSoxKnicks
08-22-2010, 02:19 AM
I saw an improvement in his perimeter game. But it's going to take a couple of years for him to build confidence in it also.

See post 68 of mine.

Now, that doesn't mean his jump shot won't improve, it just hasn't much over his first 4 years. But maybe he really concentrates on improving it this summer.

boriquaabe
08-22-2010, 02:23 AM
Yeah? Why? I mean I could say I think Felton has more room to grow then Rondo but that wouldn't make me right. That would make me quite wrong.

Did you even bother to look at the stats I posted? Again, Paul and Williams are/(were at that stage in their career) better passers (assists and limiting turnovers) and more efficient shooters. Will Rondo continue to improve on his passing? Sure why not. But Williams and Paul could too.

And if you do value defense and rebounding for a PG, you could certainly make a case Rondo is/will be better then Williams. But I happen to think those 2 aspects are less important for a PG.

I'm sorry I didn't look at the stats you put up. I'm not really one to value statistics. Felton has a little room to grow I agree. But why I think Rondo has room to grown is because williams and Paul are already more accomplished shooters and rondo isn't. But rondo can still affect the game. I also think defense is the most important aspect of the game for a point guard because a point guard is the first line of defense and usually the point guard is the player called on to double team. Rebounding doesn't hurt either. It's a more efficient way for a PG to execute a fast break if he can grab you 6 or 7 rebounds a game they usually amount to easy transition buckets.

icej
08-22-2010, 02:45 AM
Rondo will improve in his game as a whole, considering his age and that pg's are the most durable position in the game. But regarding his efficiency and effectiveness after the big 3days is another discussion.

boriquaabe
08-22-2010, 02:48 AM
See post 68 of mine.

Now, that doesn't mean his jump shot won't improve, it just hasn't much over his first 4 years. But maybe he really concentrates on improving it this summer.

I know they said he was working with Mark Price in the off season. With him playing for team uSA I don't know when he'll find the time this year.

Boy I am looking forward to seeing Rubio tomorrow night. I think he matches up well against this years team.

PatsSoxKnicks
08-22-2010, 02:49 AM
I'm sorry I didn't look at the stats you put up. I'm not really one to value statistics. Felton has a little room to grow I agree. But why I think Rondo has room to grown is because williams and Paul are already more accomplished shooters and rondo isn't. But rondo can still affect the game. I also think defense is the most important aspect of the game for a point guard because a point guard is the first line of defense and usually the point guard is the player called on to double team. Rebounding doesn't hurt either. It's a more efficient way for a PG to execute a fast break if he can grab you 6 or 7 rebounds a game they usually amount to easy transition buckets.

If you don't value statistics then what do you use to evaluate a player? I mean you do realize that something as simple as PPG is a statistic right? And are you telling me you watch every play of every game for every year? Because that's the only way you could accurately judge any players without using statistics. Otherwise, you get prone to misremembering/putting more weight into plays you remember. There are thousands of plays during a season and one can't base decisions on only the ones they remember because it's not always accurate and it could lead to biases. You could see a Rondo make 5 jump shots in a game and come to the conclusion that he's an excellent jump shooter but that wouldn't be accurate because of the limited sample size.

If you do value defense and rebounding for a PG as much as passing and shooting, you could make a case that Rondo is better than Williams. But there is still no case to be made for Rondo over Paul. Paul's defense is actually pretty good (his defensive rating isn't far off from Rondo) and his rebounding rate isn't that much worse then Rondo's either. However, the difference in passing and shooting is enough to negate that slight advantage Rondo has in rebounding and defense.

Looking at win shares, which will include defense, rebounding, passing, shooting, etc., it's not close between Paul and Rondo.

However, I still don't value rebounding and defense as much for a PG, especially rebounding. I think most PG in the NBA are crap defenders and in general can't/won't be able to shut down their counterparts. Perhaps this is why we're seeing so many good PG in the league right now. I suppose that should be one reason to value Rondo's defense though.

D.Rose#1
08-22-2010, 02:50 AM
hmmmm good ?. i rlly dont know, although i hate him n hes a punk he is talented no doubt about that.

boriquaabe
08-22-2010, 03:02 AM
If you don't value statistics then what do you use to evaluate a player? I mean you do realize that something as simple as PPG is a statistic right? And are you telling me you watch every play of every game for every year? Because that's the only way you could accurately judge any players without using statistics. Otherwise, you get prone to misremembering/putting more weight into plays you remember. There are thousands of plays during a season and one can't base decisions on only the ones they remember because it's not always accurate and it could lead to biases. You could see a Rondo make 5 jump shots in a game and come to the conclusion that he's an excellent jump shooter but that wouldn't be accurate because of the limited sample size.

If you do value defense and rebounding for a PG as much as passing and shooting, you could make a case that Rondo is better than Williams. But there is still no case to be made for Rondo over Paul. Paul's defense is actually pretty good (his defensive rating isn't far off from Rondo) and his rebounding rate isn't that much worse then Rondo's either. However, the difference in passing and shooting is enough to negate that slight advantage Rondo has in rebounding and defense.

Looking at win shares, which will include defense, rebounding, passing, shooting, etc., it's not close between Paul and Rondo.

I've been playing basketball my entire life from great playgrounds to small college ball. I watch a lot of basketball. I don't need to see much of a player to come to a conclusion especially point guards. I only need to see Rondo shoot the ball once to know his form isn't good.

I know it's hard on the internet to trust someone but trust me. I'm not always right. But I usually am pretty accurate when it comes to Basketball and baseball. My best friends father was an all city PG in new york city back in the day. I went to the same high school as stephon MArbury except I went there with his older brother who at the time was the best junior in the city. A few close firends of mine played professionally over seas. In my twenties basketball was my life. I was offered a tryout from a Proffessional basketball team in PR the Ponce Leones but I turned it down for a reason that I'd be too embarrassed to say. I am a legitimate basketball junkie and I know stats can be misleading in more ways than one. My basketball Idol is the great Lloyd "swee pea" Daniels look him up and read the book Swee pea and other playground legends it's a great read.

Kashmir13579
08-22-2010, 04:39 AM
as currently constructed, there is no way on earth Rondo can sustain an athletic decline. I honestly don't think I need to even elaborate this. You listed skill players. Rondo is not this....

you also think rondo is not an efficient player. do you just not like boston teams? did you not watch the playoffs last year? if you wouldnt list rondo as a "skill player" i would ask what drugs are you on. he's clearly elite. and he is clearly a steve nash prototype with way better defense and a fraction of his jump shot. how would someone with that kind of basketball i.q not be able to make it work? its a moot point anyways because he's not gonna have an athletic decline for many years (as it stands now). don't gimme your stats cause it really doesnt matter. anyone who watches basketball knows this kid is special. i'm not even a boston fan; i hate boston, and i still recognize his greatness.

Iodine
08-22-2010, 04:42 AM
you also think rondo is not an efficient player. do you just not like boston teams? did you not watch the playoffs last year? if you wouldnt list rondo as a "skill player" i would ask what drugs are you on. he's clearly elite. and he is clearly a steve nash prototype with way better defense and a fraction of his jump shot. how would someone with that kind of basketball i.q not be able to make it work? its a moot point anyways because he's not gonna have an athletic decline for many years (as it stands now). don't gimme your stats cause it really doesnt matter. anyone who watches basketball knows this kid is special. i'm not even a boston fan; i hate boston, and i still recognize his greatness.

He said rondo was efficient...........

And no he is not a steve nash prototype. Thats silly

And damn those stats make your argument look bad so why use them

HE WASNT SAYING RONDO IS BAD!

I really don't get that about PSD(not just this one post), if your disagree with how good someone is people think your saying he sucks

Hawkeye15
08-22-2010, 10:26 AM
here is where i disagree, Rondo's bball I.Q is so high that even when his athleticism declines he could still do something along the lines of what Steve Nash does to get his players open. also kobe was a high flier as a youngin' and he has now become much less of an above the rim type player. kobe is still amazing. athletic ball players who are as smart as they are physically gifted find ways to stay elite longer than players going on just athletic ability or a 43' vertical. with all that said, Rondo absolutely has to work on developing a jump shot. i'd hope he's shooting 1200 shots a day.

If Rondo doesn't develop a jump shot, he will not get the respect he needs to create seperation as he ages, and have a fairly sharp decline.
Everything hinges on his jumper and free throws getting better. The players that age well are the high skill players. Rondo is not this

Hawkeye15
08-22-2010, 10:28 AM
I'm sorry I didn't look at the stats you put up. I'm not really one to value statistics. Felton has a little room to grow I agree. But why I think Rondo has room to grown is because williams and Paul are already more accomplished shooters and rondo isn't. But rondo can still affect the game. I also think defense is the most important aspect of the game for a point guard because a point guard is the first line of defense and usually the point guard is the player called on to double team. Rebounding doesn't hurt either. It's a more efficient way for a PG to execute a fast break if he can grab you 6 or 7 rebounds a game they usually amount to easy transition buckets.

then you will miss a ton dude. And Rondo couldn't wear Paul's jockstrap, and never will.

Hawkeye15
08-22-2010, 10:33 AM
I've been playing basketball my entire life from great playgrounds to small college ball. I watch a lot of basketball. I don't need to see much of a player to come to a conclusion especially point guards. I only need to see Rondo shoot the ball once to know his form isn't good.

I know it's hard on the internet to trust someone but trust me. I'm not always right. But I usually am pretty accurate when it comes to Basketball and baseball. My best friends father was an all city PG in new york city back in the day. I went to the same high school as stephon MArbury except I went there with his older brother who at the time was the best junior in the city. A few close firends of mine played professionally over seas. In my twenties basketball was my life. I was offered a tryout from a Proffessional basketball team in PR the Ponce Leones but I turned it down for a reason that I'd be too embarrassed to say. I am a legitimate basketball junkie and I know stats can be misleading in more ways than one. My basketball Idol is the great Lloyd "swee pea" Daniels look him up and read the book Swee pea and other playground legends it's a great read.

I think many of us have played basketball since we were 7. The point is, there are tools available to simply tell you what your eyes miss, or to confirm your personal evalution.
So, when you see posters who obviously have a good knowledge of basketball in general, and then they use these statistics you don't care about, you are better off looking at those numbers. They are telling. We all know Rondo is a bad shooter from watching him. But when you have people making claims that he is an improving shooter, by posting these numbers, its clear that is not true.
Rondo will never catch Paul. Paul is a machine, the best PG we have seen since Stockton.

Hawkeye15
08-22-2010, 10:35 AM
you also think rondo is not an efficient player. do you just not like boston teams? did you not watch the playoffs last year? if you wouldnt list rondo as a "skill player" i would ask what drugs are you on. he's clearly elite. and he is clearly a steve nash prototype with way better defense and a fraction of his jump shot. how would someone with that kind of basketball i.q not be able to make it work? its a moot point anyways because he's not gonna have an athletic decline for many years (as it stands now). don't gimme your stats cause it really doesnt matter. anyone who watches basketball knows this kid is special. i'm not even a boston fan; i hate boston, and i still recognize his greatness.

Rondo is a fairly efficient player, and if he could stop coughing the ball up so many times a game, and hit a free throw, his efficiency would go into elite status.
And Nash is the greatest shooter in NBA history. And doesn't defend. Nash is a far, far superior offensive player.
I would never claim Rondo isn't a top 5 PG. But his basketball skill level, or lack there of, is going to cause his decline to be sharp. He is probably not going to sustain dominance into his mid 30's, unless he changes

mynameismo
08-22-2010, 10:47 AM
No, you can teach shooting and all.. but you can't teach hustle and hard work.

J-Relo
08-22-2010, 10:52 AM
No, you can teach shooting and all.. but you can't teach hustle and hard work.

You can teach both physical and mental abilities.

Super.
08-22-2010, 11:22 AM
You can teach both physical and mental abilities.

Can't teach Hustle
Can't teach Heart

Kakaroach
08-22-2010, 11:24 AM
Rondo is for real, so he will still be considered one of the better PGs in the league down the line.

Kashmir13579
08-22-2010, 06:19 PM
Rondo is a fairly efficient player, and if he could stop coughing the ball up so many times a game, and hit a free throw, his efficiency would go into elite status.
And Nash is the greatest shooter in NBA history. And doesn't defend. Nash is a far, far superior offensive player.
I would never claim Rondo isn't a top 5 PG. But his basketball skill level, or lack there of, is going to cause his decline to be sharp. He is probably not going to sustain dominance into his mid 30's, unless he changes

the only place where steve nash is better offensively is his jumper. and in another thread, you said and i quote "rondo and efficiency are not in the same sentence"

Kashmir13579
08-22-2010, 06:21 PM
He said rondo was efficient...........

And no he is not a steve nash prototype. Thats silly

And damn those stats make your argument look bad so why use them

HE WASNT SAYING RONDO IS BAD!

I really don't get that about PSD(not just this one post), if your disagree with how good someone is people think your saying he sucks

do you have an opinion or are you tied directly to hawkeyes nuts?

Hawkeye15
08-22-2010, 06:46 PM
the only place where steve nash is better offensively is his jumper. and in another thread, you said and i quote "rondo and efficiency are not in the same sentence"

Rondo's efficiency gets destroyed by his turnovers, lack of shooting, and poor free throw percentage.

PatsSoxKnicks
08-22-2010, 06:49 PM
the only place where steve nash is better offensively is his jumper. and in another thread, you said and i quote "rondo and efficiency are not in the same sentence"

Nash is a better passer too.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=nashst01&y1=2010&p2=rondora01&y2=2010

Ast% is higher for Nash and while the TOV% is also higher, there isn't much of a difference, both turn the ball over at a high rate. I would say Nash is the better passer.

Also, Nash's ORtg was 121 vs. Rondo's ORtg of 111. That is blowing away Rondo offensively. And like it or not, shooting efficiency is a big part of offense and Nash has Rondo beat in that by miles.

Of course defensively, Nash is hideous while Rondo's the best at his position.

PatsSoxKnicks
08-22-2010, 06:51 PM
Rondo's efficiency gets destroyed by his turnovers, lack of shooting, and poor free throw percentage.

To be fair, when comparing Nash to Rondo, Nash is even worse with the turnovers. Although his shooting is miles ahead of Rondo.

Hawkeye15
08-22-2010, 07:03 PM
To be fair, when comparing Nash to Rondo, Nash is even worse with the turnovers. Although his shooting is miles ahead of Rondo.

no doubt, but I was simply referring to what brings Rondo down. And yes, Nash is so far superior shooting wise, Rondo will have trouble catching him rating wise

Kashmir13579
08-22-2010, 07:52 PM
to be completely fair, any great passer will be hurt from turnovers. and patssox, do you think rondo doesnt have what it takes to be AS good of a passer as nash?

Hawkeye15
08-22-2010, 08:28 PM
to be completely fair, any great passer will be hurt from turnovers. and patssox, do you think rondo doesnt have what it takes to be AS good of a passer as nash?

Rondo may very well be the same passer, but Nash is textbook at this point, and has been a long time. Time will tell

PatsSoxKnicks
08-22-2010, 11:02 PM
to be completely fair, any great passer will be hurt from turnovers. and patssox, do you think rondo doesnt have what it takes to be AS good of a passer as nash?

Hawkeye answered it pretty well. Nash has been doing it for a long time and at the moment is a better passer but Rondo could down the line be as good as Nash passing wise, maybe even better if he cuts down on the turnovers.

But being as good a passer as Nash and Paul are two different things. Paul's 07-08 and 08-09 Ast% were higher then any season Nash has posted and to top it off, his TOV% was really good too. Hoopdata has a similar stat called Turnover Ratio, and Paul had the lowest TOR for PG in the NBA. Heck, he's one of the best in the NBA in limiting turnovers regardless of position (top 20 for 30+ mins and 40 games played).

So there's an answer to your question, Chris Paul is a great passer who isn't hurt by turnovers. And this is one of the many reasons he is in a class by himself and will continue to be.

The Raven
08-23-2010, 03:46 PM
If he continues to improve that he has been, then year sure why not

Hawkeye15
08-23-2010, 03:50 PM
Hawkeye answered it pretty well. Nash has been doing it for a long time and at the moment is a better passer but Rondo could down the line be as good as Nash passing wise, maybe even better if he cuts down on the turnovers.

But being as good a passer as Nash and Paul are two different things. Paul's 07-08 and 08-09 Ast% were higher then any season Nash has posted and to top it off, his TOV% was really good too. Hoopdata has a similar stat called Turnover Ratio, and Paul had the lowest TOR for PG in the NBA. Heck, he's one of the best in the NBA in limiting turnovers regardless of position (top 20 for 30+ mins and 40 games played).

So there's an answer to your question, Chris Paul is a great passer who isn't hurt by turnovers. And this is one of the many reasons he is in a class by himself and will continue to be.


It literally IS the reason nobody can touch him efficiency wise at the PG position.

Kashmir13579
08-23-2010, 04:57 PM
lmao didnt know we were talking about paul but good stuff guys. this is why i love this website. keep up the good work.

mikealike305
08-23-2010, 04:59 PM
no i think rondo will be the best "true" PG in the NBA in 5 years

Tony_Starks
08-23-2010, 05:05 PM
I hate Rondo but Im not a hater. Real recognize real, in 5 years I can see him being one of the best seasoned Pg's in the game. ESPECIALLY if he evers develops a respectable J.