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Swashcuff
08-20-2010, 11:16 AM
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks/post/_/id/286/knicks-in-the-mix-for-rudy-fernandez


The Knicks are among the teams trying to acquire Rudy Fernandez from the Trail Blazers and they have offered forward Wilson Chandler.

A league source told ESPN.com's Chris Sheridan that the Bulls and Celtics have each offered Portland a first-round draft pick in exchange for the Spanish swingman.

king4day
08-20-2010, 11:20 AM
Would be a solid move if Portland accepts. Probably the best offer so far. A young proven talent as opposed to late first rounders.
Doing this though, likely means no chance of trading for Melo, or Parker.

NBA-GMaster
08-20-2010, 11:20 AM
heard some rumors that Chandler will go to Bulls or Celtics for the 1st rd pick which NY will use to get Fernandez.. Its more like a 3 team trade..

ecorrea
08-20-2010, 11:25 AM
heard some rumors that Chandler will go to Bulls or Celtics for the 1st rd pick which NY will use to get Fernandez.. Its more like a 3 team trade..

i dont thinkt the bulls are looking to pick up chandler

NBA-GMaster
08-20-2010, 11:26 AM
i dont thinkt the bulls are looking to pick up chandler

Its just a rumor..

xbrackattackx
08-20-2010, 11:27 AM
I think It would be fair for both teams.

ecorrea
08-20-2010, 11:28 AM
whered u hear it from? just curious. i hope the bulls are still lookin to pick up rudy.

wesso2008
08-20-2010, 11:28 AM
heard some rumors that Chandler will go to Bulls or Celtics for the 1st rd pick which NY will use to get Fernandez.. Its more like a 3 team trade..



Dude if Bulls nab W. Chandler, ill be :dance: and :jumpy: AND :clap:....no lie. I like Chander no homo...

Hawkeye15
08-20-2010, 11:30 AM
this would be fair for both sides. Chandler could back up both Batum and Roy, and Rudy would have playing time right away

J4KOP99
08-20-2010, 11:30 AM
I wonder if this would have any ramifications on acquiring Carmelo.

ecorrea
08-20-2010, 11:31 AM
Dude if Bulls nab W. Chandler, ill be :dance: and :jumpy: AND :clap:....no lie.

u think chandler would play sg for us???

A Nut Da 1
08-20-2010, 11:31 AM
heard some rumors that Chandler will go to Bulls or Celtics for the 1st rd pick which NY will use to get Fernandez.. Its more like a 3 team trade..

if thats true thats a great pick up for chicago

ecorrea
08-20-2010, 11:32 AM
I wonder if this would have any ramifications on acquiring Carmelo.

yea i thought i heard somewhere nuggets would be interested in rudy (part of a melo to portland trade). so yea maybe knicks are trying to get pieces to trade for melo.

A Nut Da 1
08-20-2010, 11:32 AM
whered u hear it from? just curious. i hope the bulls are still lookin to pick up rudy.

i would take chandler over fernandez

GMEN4EVER
08-20-2010, 11:33 AM
Not a bad idea, but not a great one either. Rudy is not good on defense, and the knicks finally have a good amount of guys who actually play defense, not looking for them to get away from that. I can see making the trade from the stand point that Rudy is a better fit as a 2 guard than Chandler is, and he can probably play in a back court with TD and act as the pg on offense. But i'd rate Chandler as the better player of the two, with Rudy just being a better fit since we've got some unknowns at SG and a plethora of SF.

commonsense12
08-20-2010, 11:33 AM
This has been a rumor for awhile and Portland said no. IMO i wouldnt even offer that, Portland has no leverage. If Rudy isnt coming back let them get nothing if thy want to be stubborn.

PlezPlayDKnicks
08-20-2010, 11:34 AM
Chandler is not going to Chicago ... Or at least I hope not.. This would be a terrible trade for the Knicks

wesso2008
08-20-2010, 11:34 AM
i would take chandler over fernandez

This....:clap: Chandler's been one of the bright spots for the Knicks the past few years....outside of Gallo. Dude can be a stat-stuffer....killed on my fantasy team.

Kakaroach
08-20-2010, 11:34 AM
When they already have Gallo I don't see why. Plus, I think the T-Blaze would be more interested in Taj Gibson, if the Bulls are still offering that.

ecorrea
08-20-2010, 11:35 AM
so i guess chandler would play the 2 for the bulls? i know this is just hearsay, but just curious if this were to happen how he would fit.

J4KOP99
08-20-2010, 11:36 AM
Not a bad idea, but not a great one either. Rudy is not good on defense, and the knicks finally have a good amount of guys who actually play defense, not looking for them to get away from that. I can see making the trade from the stand point that Rudy is a better fit as a 2 guard than Chandler is, and he can probably play in a back court with TD and act as the pg on offense. But i'd rate Chandler as the better player of the two, with Rudy just being a better fit since we've got some unknowns at SG and a plethora of SF.

There is a bigger picture that you are not seeing. I doubt this would be so the Knicks can just swap players... they are looking for something else. Something more important.

ecorrea
08-20-2010, 11:36 AM
bulls were never offering taj gibson

Hellcrooner
08-20-2010, 11:37 AM
Finally!!!!!!!!!!!!

next move by knicks get Melo.

Felton,Rudy,Melo,Stoudamire and C Andersen i guess since Randolph will be heading nuggets way.

ecorrea
08-20-2010, 11:39 AM
knicks havnt even gotten rudy hellcrooner. and i think if they do he would be part of the trade for melo

J4KOP99
08-20-2010, 11:39 AM
Finally!!!!!!!!!!!!

next move by knicks get Melo.

Felton,Rudy,Melo,Stoudamire and C Andersen i guess since Randolph will be heading nuggets way.

If the ****ing birdman goes to the Knicks I will kill somebody. Not that I like the knicks, but god damn't do I hate Andersen.

I will never forgive him for that horrible showing in the dunk contest.

wesso2008
08-20-2010, 11:40 AM
When they already have Gallo I don't see why. Plus, I think the T-Blaze would be more interested in Taj Gibson, if the Bulls are still offering that.

I honestly dont see Taj going anywhere....:eyebrow:

A Nut Da 1
08-20-2010, 11:42 AM
chicago starting line up

Rose/watson
Chandler/Brewer/Bogan
Deng/Kover/Brewer/Johnson
Booz /Taj/Thomas
Noah/Thomas /Asik


this would be one of the deepest teams in the league

jetsfan28
08-20-2010, 11:44 AM
When they already have Gallo I don't see why. Plus, I think the T-Blaze would be more interested in Taj Gibson, if the Bulls are still offering that.

Gallo plays the 4, Fernandez plays the 2. If anything, Chandler is the one who they are less interested due to Gallo since he's more of a 3 for D'Antoni.


I'd take Chandler over Fernandez, but Fernandez is a better fit for the Knicks, seems like a good deal.

A Nut Da 1
08-20-2010, 11:52 AM
Gallo plays the 4, Fernandez plays the 2. If anything, Chandler is the one who they are less interested due to Gallo since he's more of a 3 for D'Antoni.


I'd take Chandler over Fernandez, but Fernandez is a better fit for the Knicks, seems like a good deal.

if the point is to turn into the Suns east or its a part of another deal then yes its a good trade

xbrackattackx
08-20-2010, 11:54 AM
They need to trade Chandler anyways cause Mello will be at that position soon.

Da Knicks
08-20-2010, 12:06 PM
terrible trade for the knicks

Hellcrooner
08-20-2010, 12:07 PM
knicks havnt even gotten rudy hellcrooner. and i think if they do he would be part of the trade for melo

No he wont.

If he is traded directly ( or on a three way with chicago) to New York he cant be traded ntil 3 months after.

And Portland is not going to make a 4 way deal that puts rudy in a division rival so they have to see him a thousend times a year with the risk of him being fe dup and torch them,

LeGacy is Music
08-20-2010, 12:12 PM
I swear to everything the Knicks have to be the STUPIDIST Francise in History who in the Hell is Rudy Fernandez. Chandler is far more superior all of this for WHAT!!!??!! I need to be the New GM for the KNICKS!!! :mad: I pray this doesn't go through

shep33
08-20-2010, 12:15 PM
I actually think Chandler is better than Fernandez, and I don't really see how this improves the Knicks. Why wouldn't they hold on the Chandler just incase they want to trade him to the Nuggets or Hornets?

Hellcrooner
08-20-2010, 12:15 PM
I swear to everything the Knicks have to be the STUPIDIST Francise in History who in the Hell is Rudy Fernandez. Chandler is far more superior all of this for WHAT!!!??!! I need to be the New GM for the KNICKS!!! :mad: I pray this doesn't go through



ha ha h ah ha ahhahahahahahahahahahahah

Good thing Dantoni KNOWS what rudy is instea of being just a clueless Fan.

Hellcrooner
08-20-2010, 12:17 PM
I actually think Chandler is better than Fernandez, and I don't really see how this improves the Knicks. Why wouldn't they hold on the Chandler just incase they want to trade him to the Nuggets or Hornets?

because the nugets want GALLINARI and Randolph and currys expiring i guess.



so you ned a SG to play betwee Felton and Melo.

bkmikeyy
08-20-2010, 12:18 PM
ha ha h ah ha ahhahahahahahahahahahahah

Good thing Dantoni KNOWS what rudy is instea of being just a clueless Fan.

Or maybe you are just a rudy fan.... because chandler is definitely better.

LeGacy is Music
08-20-2010, 12:20 PM
ha ha h ah ha ahhahahahahahahahahahahah

Good thing Dantoni KNOWS what rudy is instea of being just a clueless Fan.

Yo Rudy doesn't even START first of all, 2 he didn't even show up in the play offs it was Miller who stepped up. 3. Chandler has better ball handling skills, is a better defender, more athletic, and is a better slasher to the basket. 4 Wil can cover 3 spots the 2, 3 and 4. Clueless Fan My ***** I play ball if ever you wanna get your feeling hurt on the court I live in Queens ask about me :clap:

Slimsim
08-20-2010, 12:22 PM
If we lose Chandler I'm going to kill something.

rabzouz 96
08-20-2010, 12:24 PM
terrible trade for the knicks

this. horrible idea

oak2455
08-20-2010, 12:24 PM
If we lose Chandler I'm going to kill something.

a squirrel :confused:

-Kobe24-TJ19-
08-20-2010, 12:26 PM
I think chandler is slightly better than Rudy

A Nut Da 1
08-20-2010, 12:26 PM
I swear to everything the Knicks have to be the STUPIDIST Francise in History who in the Hell is Rudy Fernandez. Chandler is far more superior all of this for WHAT!!!??!! I need to be the New GM for the KNICKS!!! :mad: I pray this doesn't go through

what if the knicks are trying to get fernandez to package with Galo and 2 #1's for Melo

Da Knicks
08-20-2010, 12:26 PM
because the nugets want GALLINARI and Randolph and currys expiring i guess.



so you ned a SG to play betwee Felton and Melo.

This would make some sense but Chandler is way better than Fernandez. Give me a min too collect my thoughts because this is a garbage deal for the knicks.

LeGacy is Music
08-20-2010, 12:26 PM
a squirrel :confused:

Maybe some Fly's cause this is BULL ****

A Nut Da 1
08-20-2010, 12:28 PM
If we lose Chandler I'm going to kill something.

ha ha ha

CostanzaNumba0
08-20-2010, 12:28 PM
No he wont.

If he is traded directly ( or on a three way with chicago) to New York he cant be traded ntil 3 months after.

And Portland is not going to make a 4 way deal that puts rudy in a division rival so they have to see him a thousend times a year with the risk of him being fe dup and torch them,

False, we are under the cap

A Nut Da 1
08-20-2010, 12:29 PM
I think chandler is slightly better than Rudy

????? slightly? what in your opinion make them close?

Slimsim
08-20-2010, 12:30 PM
a squirrel :confused:

A mouse but it would be ugly.

Stunner
08-20-2010, 12:32 PM
Dat would just be dumb.

Sadds The Gr8
08-20-2010, 12:33 PM
I think Chandler's better but Fernandez suits the D'antoni system more.

oak2455
08-20-2010, 12:34 PM
A mouse but it would be ugly.

That could be ugly buy I'm thinking theres more to this than just Rudy......must mean something might be brewing with the Nuggets and Melo:clap::clap:

A Nut Da 1
08-20-2010, 12:35 PM
I think Chandler's better but Fernandez suits the D'antoni system more.

i will be adding the gamertag for MW2

oldfishermen
08-20-2010, 12:36 PM
Chandler to Portland does not work for two reasons.
1) Portland is stacked @SF
2) Portland is very sensitive to having players on their roster with past marijuana issues. Too many past problems come to mind.

A three team trade would work. However, Portland is not interested in Chicago’s first round pick, or that deal would have been made already… Portland can buy a late first round pick if they want one, and keep Rudy.

Charlotte’s first rounder is more attractive. However, with so many strings attached to this pick, only slightly more attractive.

Sadds The Gr8
08-20-2010, 12:36 PM
i will be adding the gamertag for MW2

iight

Slimsim
08-20-2010, 12:36 PM
Chandler Can Play 3 positions He Can easily average 20 PPG and 5 to 7 rebs per game. All he has to do is work on his ball handle and he's a legit Talent. Rudy reminds me of Sergio Everyone said he would thrive in Mike D System and look how hat turned out.

Slimsim
08-20-2010, 12:37 PM
That could be ugly buy I'm thinking theres more to this than just Rudy......must mean something might be brewing with the Nuggets and Melo:clap::clap:

:pray:

shep33
08-20-2010, 12:38 PM
because the nugets want GALLINARI and Randolph and currys expiring i guess.



so you ned a SG to play betwee Felton and Melo.

Still though, Chandler IMO is an overall better player, and he can play and guard 2's. Very good rebounder when he plays the 2, and Fernandez shoots a terrible percentage from the field, but that probably increases with the Knicks.

Still though it makes no sense to trade him for Rudy, it's not going to improve the knicks at all IMO. If they really want a Melo or CP3 they can throw Chandler into the mix, giving them Randolph, Gallo, Chandler, Curry, Azubukie, etc as trade pieces. Cause I'm guessing if Rudy gets traded to the Knicks then they'd have to offer him in a package to one of those teams. I dunno, I just say keep Chandler cause they're not losing anything, at best the Knicks are the same team, Rudy won't get them over the hump.

A Nut Da 1
08-20-2010, 12:39 PM
Chandler Can Play 3 positions He Can easily average 20 PPG and 5 to 7 rebs per game. All he has to do is work on his ball handle and he's a legit Talent. Rudy reminds me of Sergio Everyone said he would thrive in Mike D System and look how hat turned out.

no argument with you there

Gideon
08-20-2010, 12:41 PM
This Will never happen. Portland has no leverage here and Knicks are not giving up Chandler unless it is part of a bigger deal for a superstar. Of this I am certain. The Knicks are finally making the right decisions towards their future and this clearly would be a step backwards.

NYK
08-20-2010, 12:43 PM
Chandler > Rudy and is also younger as well, this would not be a good trade at all for NY unless Denver has interest in Rudy and he can be part of a Melo deal if the Nuggets do decide to trade him.

Hawkeye15
08-20-2010, 12:46 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=fernaru01&y1=2010&p2=chandwi01&y2=2010

comparing the two to date

Hawkeye15
08-20-2010, 12:47 PM
and Rudy is a far better shooter, and a primary SG. if they get Melo, Chandlers minutes drop a good amount. He can play shooting guard, but he is more of a forward

Hawkeye15
08-20-2010, 12:47 PM
good move, both sides

LeGacy is Music
08-20-2010, 12:55 PM
what if the knicks are trying to get fernandez to package with Galo and 2 #1's for Melo

Thats still too much IMO We give up Chandler and Gallo for MELLO along with a first round pick this guy isn't Lebron. or Kobe or Durant Mello is good but not that good IMO to give up so much Gallo Curry and a 1st rounder no more

97NYer
08-20-2010, 01:00 PM
Meh.

The Miami Cheat
08-20-2010, 01:09 PM
Chandler > Rudy and is also younger as well, this would not be a good trade at all for NY unless Denver has interest in Rudy and he can be part of a Melo deal if the Nuggets do decide to trade him.

ya i agree with you...chandler is better than rudy but if it will gain denver's interest within trading with ny for melo...then thats good for ny

Antipod
08-20-2010, 01:09 PM
Hope i won`t happen, i don`t like Rudy at all

A Nut Da 1
08-20-2010, 01:14 PM
and Rudy is a far better shooter, and a primary SG. if they get Melo, Chandlers minutes drop a good amount. He can play shooting guard, but he is more of a forward

Ruby may shoot the 3 better than chandler but he is not a better shooter. chandler has a better mid range game and shot than rudy

Hellcrooner
08-20-2010, 01:15 PM
Lol lets hope it happens and see what Ny homers thing after one or two months.

If Melo is in the team Rudy gets around 14-16 ppg If melo is not in the team Rudy gets 18-20 ppg-
As for Rudy beingh a back up and chandler being a starter and blah blah.

Yeash of course Rudy was BRANDON ROYS bck up.

And Chandler was puttin sats in a LOTTERY team WITH A FAST PACE

A Nut Da 1
08-20-2010, 01:17 PM
Thats still too much IMO We give up Chandler and Gallo for MELLO along with a first round pick this guy isn't Lebron. or Kobe or Durant Mello is good but not that good IMO to give up so much Gallo Curry and a 1st rounder no more

well he may not be lebron but we know lebron can't guard him and we know he isn't going to give up in a game, we know he isn't affraid of the bright lights and big stage, we know he is willing to put a team on his back and take all the blame if they lose, and we know he is willing to take the big shot and make them

Hellcrooner
08-20-2010, 01:18 PM
Ruby may shoot the 3 better than chandler but he is not a better shooter. chandler has a better mid range game and shot than rudy

The fact that STupid mcmillan has not been bale to understand rudy is not only a three point shooter shouldnt fool you.

Rudy is a good oshooter fro meverhywhere on the court, and he can drive in solahs and dunk TOo ( ask Dwight) he also can Play Pg wich Chandler cant ( that gets leveled with Chandler being ale to play some 4 wich rudy cant) Rudy can play the 3 but is weak depending hwho he has to defnd, Chandler can play the two but is SLOW depepnding hwho he has to deffend.

Check Spain Vs usa this sunday to see Rudy playing AS HE KNOWS .

Chronz
08-20-2010, 01:21 PM
Of course NY would be willing to part with him. The guy sucks, still its the best offer Portland has gotten yet.

A Nut Da 1
08-20-2010, 01:22 PM
Lol lets hope it happens and see what Ny homers thing after one or two months.

If Melo is in the team Rudy gets around 14-16 ppg If melo is not in the team Rudy gets 18-20 ppg-
As for Rudy beingh a back up and chandler being a starter and blah blah.

Yeash of course Rudy was BRANDON ROYS bck up.

And Chandler was puttin sats in a LOTTERY team WITH A FAST PACE

the stats by chandler are liget you make it sound like he runs around like richardson or someone jacking up 15-20 shots a game to get his points he going to get those points in any offense that he starts in

Hawkeye15
08-20-2010, 01:26 PM
Ruby may shoot the 3 better than chandler but he is not a better shooter. chandler has a better mid range game and shot than rudy

Chandler- 62% of his attempts come on jumpers, regardless of midrange or threes, and he hits 39.5% of these
Fernandez- 89% of his attempts come on jumpers, and he hits 48%

so no, Rudy is a better shooter pretty easily

A Nut Da 1
08-20-2010, 01:27 PM
The fact that STupid mcmillan has not been bale to understand rudy is not only a three point shooter shouldnt fool you.

Rudy is a good oshooter fro meverhywhere on the court, and he can drive in solahs and dunk TOo ( ask Dwight) he also can Play Pg wich Chandler cant ( that gets leveled with Chandler being ale to play some 4 wich rudy cant) Rudy can play the 3 but is weak depending hwho he has to defnd, Chandler can play the two but is SLOW depepnding hwho he has to deffend.

Check Spain Vs usa this sunday to see Rudy playing AS HE KNOWS .
okay i will give you that rudy play at the 1 may be comparible to chandler at the 4 offensively only ....but chandler has quick enough feet to cover every 2 guard that you think rudy can guard and you don't have to worry about double teaming in the post if chandler is covering the 2.... as far as rudy being able to shoot from anywhere i have to see it and i can only go off of what i have seen sorry

Hawkeye15
08-20-2010, 01:28 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=fernaru01&y1=2010&p2=chandwi01&y2=2010

post it one more time for everyone. Please look at it if you are going to attempt to compare the two

A Nut Da 1
08-20-2010, 01:28 PM
Of course NY would be willing to part with him. The guy sucks, still its the best offer Portland has gotten yet.

????? what guys sucks?

Hawkeye15
08-20-2010, 01:29 PM
????? what guys sucks?

he is referring to Chandler. While I wouldn't go so far as to say he sucks, Chandler really isn't very good

LeGacy is Music
08-20-2010, 01:30 PM
I really feel people don't watch basketball if you think Rudy is better then Chandler there isn't an NBA player or coach without a purpose that would say YEA I would take Rudy over Chandler you wouldn't do it in NBA2k or Live so why should the Knicks unless they are getting someone BETTER such as Mello

A Nut Da 1
08-20-2010, 01:31 PM
Chandler- 62% of his attempts come on jumpers, regardless of midrange or threes, and he hits 39.5% of these
Fernandez- 89% of his attempts come on jumpers, and he hits 48%

so no, Rudy is a better shooter pretty easily

alot of those shots from chandler came in the paint against bigs so i wouldn't put too much into that

Hawkeye15
08-20-2010, 01:31 PM
I really feel people don't watch basketball if you think Rudy is better then Chandler there isn't an NBA player or coach without a purpose that would say YEA I would take Rudy over Chandler you wouldn't do it in NBA2k or Live so why should the Knicks unless they are getting someone BETTER such as Mello

why wouldn't YOU do the trade, and provide some evidence. I am so sick of the response of those who don't understand how to read numbers and roles always being, "I watch them 82 times a year!", or "You must not watch basketball"
show us why

Hawkeye15
08-20-2010, 01:33 PM
alot of those shots from chandler came in the paint against bigs so i wouldn't put too much into that

I listed jump shots only. They are not in the paint. I responded to your claim that Chandler is a better mid range jump shooter, when in fact, he isn't. Chandler finishes in the paint better, he is stronger, but Rudy basically stays out of there and does a heavy amount of damage from the perimeter.

A Nut Da 1
08-20-2010, 01:34 PM
Chandler- 62% of his attempts come on jumpers, regardless of midrange or threes, and he hits 39.5% of these
Fernandez- 89% of his attempts come on jumpers, and he hits 48%

so no, Rudy is a better shooter pretty easily
its too hard to base their shooting ability off of just % because its also going to depend on how they got their shots and what kind of shots .....where they challenged shots spot up shots or wide open....was the best defender on them or the weakest a lot to consider

PrettyBoyJ
08-20-2010, 01:36 PM
I think the knicks are selling Chandler short... I think he's worth more, Rudy is a good player but I'd rather have Chandler then Rudy

A Nut Da 1
08-20-2010, 01:37 PM
he is referring to Chandler. While I wouldn't go so far as to say he sucks, Chandler really isn't very good

what are you basing this on? you know saying chandler isn't very good?

Iodine
08-20-2010, 01:37 PM
Chandler is decent as a player, but I think both he and Rudy would be best off the bench on good teams......

I think Hawkeye has done a good job covering the jumper issue, and while chandler is a better slasher, it's not like 70+ of his shots are in the paint

Hawkeye15
08-20-2010, 01:38 PM
its too hard to base their shooting ability off of just % because its also going to depend on how they got their shots and what kind of shots .....where they challenged shots spot up shots or wide open....was the best defender on them or the weakest a lot to consider

not really. You either make it or you miss it. The fact is, Rudy is a superior outside shooter dude. There is no disputing it, no matter how hard you attempt to twist it

A Nut Da 1
08-20-2010, 01:42 PM
why wouldn't YOU do the trade, and provide some evidence. I am so sick of the response of those who don't understand how to read numbers and roles always being, "I watch them 82 times a year!", or "You must not watch basketball"
show us why

well i have the nba package on direct tv so i see games from every team and i play ball and i play out of position...i also know that when you come off the bench your generally playing against lesser players so your stats might look a little better than they would if you were always playing against the other teams best players....in no world,galaxy,alternate universe is rudy better than chandler

Hawkeye15
08-20-2010, 01:44 PM
what are you basing this on? you know saying chandler isn't very good?

league average for PER is 15. Chandler is under this by nearly 2 points. His eFG% is not near the level one would consider efficient. His offensive rating of 104 and his other advanced stats pretty much line up as average. He isn't a high skill player, so he will be dependant on becoming so, which is a difficult thing to do in the NBA.
I think he is a good bench player on a playoff team, but nothing more at this point in his career.

A Nut Da 1
08-20-2010, 01:46 PM
I listed jump shots only. They are not in the paint. I responded to your claim that Chandler is a better mid range jump shooter, when in fact, he isn't. Chandler finishes in the paint better, he is stronger, but Rudy basically stays out of there and does a heavy amount of damage from the perimeter.

ha ha ha you do shot just shots in the paint what are you talking about? do you remember when kenny smith use to call david lee shallow water? because you could only shot just shoot in the painted area and a couple of feet from the paint on the baselines...you can't always believe what that stats show a lot times you have to look deeper and watch the players play to get a gage on how good someone really is

Hawkeye15
08-20-2010, 01:47 PM
well i have the nba package on direct tv so i see games from every team and i play ball and i play out of position...i also know that when you come off the bench your generally playing against lesser players so your stats might look a little better than they would if you were always playing against the other teams best players....in no world,galaxy,alternate universe is rudy better than chandler

Let me put it this way. Chandler would beat Rudy in a game of one on one. But I would rather have Rudy on my roster than Chandler. They are both role players, but Rudy has a skillset that is of more importance. Chandler doesn't do anything well enough to justify starting him on a good team. What is Chandler so good at in your mind?
And btw, many of us played our whole lives, and have the NBA package. But there are numbers out there that help us see what our eyes miss. These are numbers you need to look at.

Hawkeye15
08-20-2010, 01:49 PM
ha ha ha you do shot just shots in the paint what are you talking about? do you remember when kenny smith use to call david lee shallow water? because you could only shot just shoot in the painted area and a couple of feet from the paint on the baselines...you can't always believe what that stats show a lot times you have to look deeper and watch the players play to get a gage on how good someone really is

would you like me to clarify for you, since you are attempting to debate my post with irrational nitpicking? The percentages I listed are outside what would be necessary to shoot in the paint.
Simple enough, yes?

A Nut Da 1
08-20-2010, 01:49 PM
league average for PER is 15. Chandler is under this by nearly 2 points. His eFG% is not near the level one would consider efficient. His offensive rating of 104 and his other advanced stats pretty much line up as average. He isn't a high skill player, so he will be dependant on becoming so, which is a difficult thing to do in the NBA.
I think he is a good bench player on a playoff team, but nothing more at this point in his career.

do you watch the players play or do you just look up everyone's stats?

Iodine
08-20-2010, 01:51 PM
do you watch the players play or do you just look up everyone's stats?

I guarantee hawkeye watches basketball, and probably more than I even have.

Why are using stat's rather than just saying "I watch him play, so I know how it is" such a bad thing?

Hawkeye15
08-20-2010, 01:52 PM
do you watch the players play or do you just look up everyone's stats?

haven't we covered this yet? And again, the same response when someone is getting beat up in a debate because they don't understand what they are reading.
We are done. You will continue to talk in circles even though the evidence has been put in front of your eyes. Open the player comparison link I posted, examine it, and see if you understand it.
lata

A Nut Da 1
08-20-2010, 01:52 PM
Let me put it this way. Chandler would beat Rudy in a game of one on one. But I would rather have Rudy on my roster than Chandler. They are both role players, but Rudy has a skillset that is of more importance. Chandler doesn't do anything well enough to justify starting him on a good team. What is Chandler so good at in your mind?
And btw, many of us played our whole lives, and have the NBA package. But there are numbers out there that help us see what our eyes miss. These are numbers you need to look at.

well lets see chandler is a better than average ball handler he can get his own shot, he rebounds better than average for his position he is a better than average defender he can score on the block he can finish strong he can actually guard 3 position

A Nut Da 1
08-20-2010, 01:56 PM
I guarantee hawkeye watches basketball, and probably more than I even have.

Why are using stat's rather than just saying "I watch him play, so I know how it is" such a bad thing?

i'm not saying using stats is a bad thing but when you use them to try and compare two players who don't get the same amount of playing time who aren't asked to do the same type of things and one is playing out of position almost all the time how much does that really help to compare them?

Hellcrooner
08-20-2010, 01:59 PM
well lets see chandler is a better than average ball handler he can get his own shot, he rebounds better than average for his position he is a better than average defender he can score on the block he can finish strong he can actually guard 3 position

Rudy is BETTER ball handler.

Can get his own shot.

He reboudns better than average for HIS position.

He can drive in and score even if Dwight howard is in font of htim

He can fisnish strng.

Can guard de 1 position.

Can shoot threes

Has beter than average skills in STEALING the ball.


So What?

A Nut Da 1
08-20-2010, 01:59 PM
haven't we covered this yet? And again, the same response when someone is getting beat up in a debate because they don't understand what they are reading.
We are done. You will continue to talk in circles even though the evidence has been put in front of your eyes. Open the player comparison link I posted, examine it, and see if you understand it.
lata

ha ha ha your funny and your allowed to have your opinion just like everyone else but for you to be so focused oh someone elses work rather than what you have seen for yourself makes no sense but yea lets end this

Brooklyn Mets
08-20-2010, 02:00 PM
IMO Chandler>>Fernandez
Chandler has a lot of potential and ive never really been a fan of Rudy.. i would really hate it if this happened :facepalm:

A Nut Da 1
08-20-2010, 02:02 PM
Rudy is BETTER ball handler.

Can get his own shot.

He reboudns better than average for HIS position.

He can drive in and score even if Dwight howard is in font of htim

He can fisnish strng.

Can guard de 1 position.

Can shoot threes

Has beter than average skills in STEALING the ball.


So What?

he doesn't even get pt and he doesn't but okay and what point guard can he guard in the nba?

Hawkeye15
08-20-2010, 02:02 PM
well lets see chandler is a better than average ball handler he can get his own shot, he rebounds better than average for his position he is a better than average defender he can score on the block he can finish strong he can actually guard 3 position

ah, finally something to retort to.
Chandler ranked 36th for SF's for rebound rate at 8.5%
Chandler ranked 32nd for SF's in TO% at 10.4%
While defensive measures are hard to come by, because there just aren't a ton of good rating systems out there, here are the PER's he gives up at all 3 positions he guards
SG- 14.3 (not bad, not good)
SF- 16.5 (getting worse)
PF- 21.8 (why would anyone have him guard a PF?)

He is indeed a decent finisher, which is the only thing I can think of that I would not complain about

as I said, its not that Rudy has proven to be a better player, but when role players, or, non-elite players, are being judged, one has to look at the player with the higher skill level and skill set period. And that is Rudy.

minervamob
08-20-2010, 02:14 PM
**** rudy fernandez! Im sick of reading about him. Why do people have such an interest in him? Whats so special about him? Hes no defensice stopper and hes no lights out shooter. Hes not a ben gordon or a raja bell. Hes a role player with no defense.

slyone_nyc
08-20-2010, 02:15 PM
ha ha h ah ha ahhahahahahahahahahahahah

Good thing Dantoni KNOWS what rudy is instea of being just a clueless Fan.

X2 X3 X4 people swear they know things that they have no clue about!!! most of you have NEVER seen what rudy can really do!!! just take a look at what he did to team u.s.a in 08... i love chandler and don't want him to be traded, but if it makes us a better team then hey... rudy is a better shooter & play maker than chandler, but i know chandler is a better 2 way player, anyway, i cant wait for the season to start, GO KNICKS...

Hawkeye15
08-20-2010, 02:16 PM
i'm not saying using stats is a bad thing but when you use them to try and compare two players who don't get the same amount of playing time who aren't asked to do the same type of things and one is playing out of position almost all the time how much does that really help to compare them?

but this is why advanced stats DO work. It doesn't care about pace, role, position, nothing. It basically tells us how productive that player is per posession, which is the true way to measure numbers. It can compare a player who plays 40 mpg with a player who plays 10 mpg, and give us real information

Raps18-19 Champ
08-20-2010, 02:17 PM
Chandler is a goon. Why would you trade him for Rudy?

cheetos185
08-20-2010, 02:23 PM
only reason knicks do this trade is because they are not going to sign back chandler so might as well get something rather than lose him for nothing

Swashcuff
08-20-2010, 02:23 PM
If the ****ing birdman goes to the Knicks I will kill somebody. Not that I like the knicks, but god damn't do I hate Andersen.

I will never forgive him for that horrible showing in the dunk contest.

he's better defensively than any of the bigs you guys have. Yes better than Turiaf

Hugbees
08-20-2010, 02:30 PM
horrible for the knicks.

Evolution23
08-20-2010, 02:38 PM
WOw I swear you people don't even watch NBA BASKETBALL. THe only thing Rudy does better than Chandler is shoot 3s. That is all! End of disussion.

Rndy
08-20-2010, 02:43 PM
WOw I swear you people don't even watch NBA BASKETBALL. THe only thing Rudy does better than Chandler is shoot 3s. That is all! End of disussion.

Do you?


Player A Career 569 ts%, .528 eFG%, Ast % 13.2, Stl% 2.1.

Player B Career 519 ts%, .487 eFG%, ast% 9.6, Stl% 1.2.

Player A is Rudy.

So if by 3's you meant overall shooting?then I agree. Maybe you made a typo?

zambo4president
08-20-2010, 02:45 PM
Chandler's a beast Id be so stoked if it was a 3-way deal that swung the Bulls WC

Hellcrooner
08-20-2010, 02:52 PM
btw when comparing the players stats you are missing a very importatn thing to consider.

Chandler lays as a starter or in long periods of time.

Rudy plys in spurts sometimes even 3 mintues spirts.

Rudy is a player that needds to be on the court to get his rythm.

And every payer has a tougher tie to find his best shooting when being brung out from the bench in litte sputs.

Hustla23
08-20-2010, 02:56 PM
Well, if we want to sign Melo, we'll have to renounce or trade Chandler because of his cap hold anyway...

Might as well get something. Rudy at the 2 in Mike's system definitely has some upside.

Agar81
08-20-2010, 02:56 PM
the underestimation of Rudy here is laughable, and I can't wait for you ignorant fans to watch him against Team USA. As hellcrooner has been saying, Rudy hasn't ever been given a good chance to shine in the NBA. The fact that the stats that have been layed out make Rudy the better player AS A BENCH PLAYER vs. Chandler AS A STARTER should really make you take a step back and consider what you have been saying.

Rndy
08-20-2010, 03:00 PM
btw when comparing the players stats you are missing a very importatn thing to consider.

Chandler lays as a starter or in long periods of time.

Rudy plys in spurts sometimes even 3 mintues spirts.

Rudy is a player that needds to be on the court to get his rythm.

And every payer has a tougher tie to find his best shooting when being brung out from the bench in litte sputs.

Yet Rudys numbers are still better..

SurGiiCaL
08-20-2010, 03:00 PM
Whats wrong with Fernandaez he just gets pissed off and wants to get traded for no reason lul

nysportsfan02
08-20-2010, 03:04 PM
No thanks.

Let him go to Spain. I'd rather keep Chandler.

Evolution23
08-20-2010, 03:05 PM
Do you?


Player A Career 569 ts%, .528 eFG%, Ast % 13.2, Stl% 2.1.

Player B Career 519 ts%, .487 eFG%, ast% 9.6, Stl% 1.2.

Player A is Rudy.

So if by 3's you meant overall shooting?then I agree. Maybe you made a typo?

Yes i meant hes a better overall shooter, thanks for being a PSD detective

Rndy
08-20-2010, 03:13 PM
Yes i meant hes a better overall shooter, thanks for being a PSD detective

Np! Maybe next time don't start off with Do you guys even watch basketball? Never a good start.

valade16
08-20-2010, 03:13 PM
X2 X3 X4 people swear they know things that they have no clue about!!! most of you have NEVER seen what rudy can really do!!! just take a look at what he did to team u.s.a in 08... i love chandler and don't want him to be traded, but if it makes us a better team then hey... rudy is a better shooter & play maker than chandler, but i know chandler is a better 2 way player, anyway, i cant wait for the season to start, GO KNICKS...

So now what Rudy can REALLY do is based off 1 GAME instead of 2 years of NBA experience?!

His ceiling in not as high as everyone makes him out to be. That being said he's a better player than Chandler.

That being said, Portland should do this deal.

blastmasta26
08-20-2010, 03:14 PM
Rudy is nice, but I wouldn't give up Chandler for him. Rudy can shoot 3's and is a true SG while Chandler isn't, so I can understand why we would want him, but Chandler is better now, regardless of lack of opportunity for Fernandez. Rudy didn't exactly kill it when Roy got injured, so we should be getting a little more value back if we're giving up Chandler.

Hellcrooner
08-20-2010, 03:24 PM
Rudy is nice, but I wouldn't give up Chandler for him. Rudy can shoot 3's and is a true SG while Chandler isn't, so I can understand why we would want him, but Chandler is better now, regardless of lack of opportunity for Fernandez. Rudy didn't exactly kill it when Roy got injured, so we should be getting a little more value back if we're giving up Chandler.

Btw rudy had a lot of problem with injury last year so he was not 100 per 100 fit for the playoggs.

effen5
08-20-2010, 03:34 PM
So either Bulls give the 1st rounder for Rudy

or

Bulls give that same 1st rounder for Chandler so the Knicks get Rudy

either way

Bulls win CYA

masalex1205
08-20-2010, 03:36 PM
really really sick of Rudy Fernandez

IversonIsKrazy
08-20-2010, 04:02 PM
Why would Knicks give up CHandler for him?? A first round + benchwarmer is all that should be needed. If Blazers reject this offer as well, well then they are just ********

abe_froman
08-20-2010, 04:03 PM
Why would Knicks give up CHandler for him?? A first round + benchwarmer is all that should be needed. If Blazers reject this offer as well, well then they are just ********

because rudy's better than chandler :shrug:

LeGacy is Music
08-20-2010, 04:28 PM
X2 X3 X4 people swear they know things that they have no clue about!!! most of you have NEVER seen what rudy can really do!!! just take a look at what he did to team u.s.a in 08... i love chandler and don't want him to be traded, but if it makes us a better team then hey... rudy is a better shooter & play maker than chandler, but i know chandler is a better 2 way player, anyway, i cant wait for the season to start, GO KNICKS...

YEA and Danphoney Thought Duhon was better then Toney Douglas, Larry Hughes and Nate Robinson. Cut it out Dan doesn't have superstars around him to be this great coach that we saw in pheniox. I tell you who is a good coach and should have gotten coach of the year the Blazer Coach. His whole team was injured and made it to the playoffs. So Stop Saying US FANS are clueless because we don't get paid 6 million to coach just because you aren't a DJ for HOT 97. Doesnt mean you don't know good music when you hear it

REALLYYYYY?
08-20-2010, 04:29 PM
because rudy's better than chandler :shrug:

really?

abe_froman
08-20-2010, 04:29 PM
really?

yes,really

xbrackattackx
08-20-2010, 04:32 PM
yes,REALLYYYYY

Fixed.

bkmikeyy
08-20-2010, 04:37 PM
Its arguable who is better (I personally think it's Wilson by a lot, the guy averaged 16.5 and 6 rebounds shooting 52% from the floor last 41 games he played but started off slow because of an injury). But the main point is that with the situation the Blazers are in they should not be getting fair value for Rudy, they have zero leverage. This trade might have been ok since it fills a need if Rudy was willing to play in Portland....but he is not. Give them Bill Walker, 3 million and a 2nd rounder and that should be enough.

NYYCowboys
08-20-2010, 04:47 PM
I would not give up Wilson Chandler for Fernandez unless the Nuggets would like Fernandez as part of a deal for Melo. Wilson is a better player, better numbers, and I would def not wanna include the Bulls to steal another one of our good players away.

The Raven
08-20-2010, 04:52 PM
really really sick of Rudy Fernandez

Rudy's just being a little *****

Kashmir13579
08-20-2010, 04:53 PM
what a dumb move; if it happens.

NYtilIdie
08-20-2010, 04:55 PM
Yeah, I seriously doubt this is true because a report came out during the peak of these talks saying Walsh wouldn't do this trade straight up and would have to include a 1st or Bayless in return.

Plus we'll have to include Chandler in the proposed Melo trade to sweeten up the deal.

Rudy's a primadonna we've had enough of those already here in NY.

PC
08-20-2010, 04:56 PM
This would be an incredibly horrible move for the Knicks. Not knocking Fernandez but through the course of this summer he completely destroyed any trade value he had. Really makes no sense for us to give up a talent like Chandler who I believe is younger than Rudy too

abe_froman
08-20-2010, 04:59 PM
I would not give up Wilson Chandler for Fernandez unless the Nuggets would like Fernandez as part of a deal for Melo. Wilson is a better player, better numbers, and I would def not wanna include the Bulls to steal another one of our good players away.
:confused: rudy has better per,ts%,efg,better a%,s%,o rtg,drtg,ws and ws/48

Hellcrooner
08-20-2010, 05:03 PM
Ok now a question.

how many of you think that Chandler is staying a knick next yer?


they have to RESIGN him wich woudl MAKE IMPOSIBLE to sighn the third start they want.

If they trade for rudys ridiculo contract and extenion otion they get to free that money for the third Star.

Also if they are willing NOW to do chandler for rudy ( wich they ewerent a month ago) it MEANS the Talks with Denver bout Melo are neraly to be finished and Melo is almsot a Knick.

Rudy+ Melo is better than Chanderl p + Gallo and better than Melo and Gallo( neither can play sg= and losing Chndlar for nithing

PlezPlayDKnicks
08-20-2010, 05:07 PM
:confused: rudy has better per,ts%,efg,better a%,s%,o rtg,drtg,ws and ws/48

U may be right but Wilson plays a larger role than Rudy did which prob is a big reason why that's true. Also Wilson plays defense which Rudy does not do nearly as well. Both had down years last year but Wilson is worth more than just Rudy IMO.

Hustla23
08-20-2010, 05:08 PM
:confused: rudy has better per,ts%,efg,better a%,s%,o rtg,drtg,ws and ws/48
Overall yeah (past two seasons).

But last year, it seems like Rudy regressed by alot. His USG% dipped by less than a point, yet his efficiency plummeted.

I'd say last year they produced about the same.

The trade is kind of like a last ditch exchange for both teams. Blazers get some sort of value for Rudy, and the Knicks get something for Wilson before having to trade or renounce him.

NYtilIdie
08-20-2010, 05:10 PM
Ok now a question.

how many of you think that Chandler is staying a knick next yer?


they have to RESIGN him wich woudl MAKE IMPOSIBLE to sighn the third start they want.

If they trade for rudys ridiculo contract and extenion otion they get to free that money for the third Star.

Also if they are willing NOW to do chandler for rudy ( wich they ewerent a month ago) it MEANS the Talks with Denver bout Melo are neraly to be finished and Melo is almsot a Knick.

You honestly need to slow down when you type because I don't understand a word you said in the 2 and 3 paragraph. So im going to try hard break this down.

It doesn't matter who we have Chandler or Rudy, both won't be here next year. If we go at Melo through FA we're going to need the CAP space so we'll just let Rudy go and take his *** back to Europe. If we have Chandler we'll just renounce his rights and let him walk.

Also, Chandler would look better in the trade offer with Gallo then Rudy would. Which is why this move would make no sense.

Nobody wants him in Portland or NY so he can just go Chicago or he can be a big baby and sit out the 2 seasons.

Hellcrooner
08-20-2010, 07:14 PM
You honestly need to slow down when you type because I don't understand a word you said in the 2 and 3 paragraph. So im going to try hard break this down.

It doesn't matter who we have Chandler or Rudy, both won't be here next year. If we go at Melo through FA we're going to need the CAP space so we'll just let Rudy go and take his *** back to Europe. If we have Chandler we'll just renounce his rights and let him walk.

Also, Chandler would look better in the trade offer with Gallo then Rudy would. Which is why this move would make no sense.

Nobody wants him in Portland or NY so he can just go Chicago or he can be a big baby and sit out the 2 seasons.

let me tell you this you ll need to not renew chandle becau ehe would need anywhere betwen 5 and 10 millions from your cap sapce.

Rudy can be taken his team option for like 1million dollars wich is Not a troubel at all for the Fa and capspace.

Shahrose
08-20-2010, 07:36 PM
Dude if Bulls nab W. Chandler, ill be :dance: and :jumpy: AND :clap:....no lie. I like Chander no homo...

:clap: yea same here
but i dont know why NY would trade him

Chandler>Rudy IMO

Khalifa21
08-20-2010, 07:50 PM
No thanks. I really like Chandler and think he does pretty much everything better than Fernandez apart from shooting.

boriquaabe
08-20-2010, 07:54 PM
Dude if Bulls nab W. Chandler, ill be :dance: and :jumpy: AND :clap:....no lie. I like Chander no homo...

Yeah this would be awesome. Maybe Chandler can set up his nickel bag selling ring at the Cabrini green(sp?) projects.

boriquaabe
08-20-2010, 07:57 PM
Yeah, I seriously doubt this is true because a report came out during the peak of these talks saying Walsh wouldn't do this trade straight up and would have to include a 1st or Bayless in return.

Plus we'll have to include Chandler in the proposed Melo trade to sweeten up the deal.

Rudy's a primadonna we've had enough of those already here in NY.

What's worse a Primadonna or a Pot smoking homophobe?

SouthSideRookie
08-20-2010, 08:09 PM
I swear, Rudy has a spell on alot of fans here, this would be a horrendous trade for the Knicks.

Kashmir13579
08-20-2010, 08:16 PM
What's worse a Primadonna or a Pot smoking homophobe?

its 2010 man, people smoke weed.

Da Knicks
08-20-2010, 08:21 PM
its 2010 man, people smoke weed.

this and people have always smoked weed not just now. Besides that Chandler is a better player than rudy and day of the week.

PatsSoxKnicks
08-20-2010, 08:39 PM
Rudy's shooting is better- career eFG% 52.8 and career TS% 56.9 vs. Wilson's eFG% of 48.7 and TS% of 51.9. However, Wilson's shooting numbers were very comparable to Rudy's last year. Still, I think that was more due to a down year from Rudy.

Defensively, basketball reference shows a lower defensive rating for Rudy (career 108) then Wilson (career 112). Of course, that could also be due to the fact that Rudy plays for a defensive coach where defense is emphasized and Wilson plays for a coach where offense is emphasized and defense is not as important. Wilson probably has the tools/will be better defensively over his career. +/- statistics show an advantage for Rudy too but again, that could be the function of their respective coaches. I think Wilson has the capability to play better defense based on his athleticism and long wing span. Still, there's not much of a difference.

Passing wise Rudy is better- career 13.2 Ast% vs. Wilson's career 9.6 Ast%. If you prefer Assist Ratio, you come to the same conclusion. Although, Wilson is slightly better with the turnovers (TOV% or TR). Still, you'd be hard pressed to find a stat or watching film and come to the conclusion that Rudy isn't a better passer.

Wilson's the better rebounder but neither of them are particularly great. And in any case for a SG, rebounding isn't that important.

I think if you look at it from the teams perspectives, this trade does make some sense. Rudy is a better shooter and passer and would help the Knicks offensively. Wilson's game would help the Blazer's defensively. He's not likely to ever become that great of a shooter, so he's not an ideal fit for the Knicks system- which requires lots of shooting (3 pt shots especially), lots of passing and in general lots of offense. And right now, I would say Rudy is the better offensive player, though that may change. Wilson is kind of tough to get a read on though. He may end up being one of those role players who never maximized his potential or he could end up being pretty good.

Anyways, if people are interested in looking at their stats instead of just forming baseless opinions:
http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Rudy%20Fernandez
http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Wilson%20Chandler

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/f/fernaru01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chandwi01.html

http://www.82games.com/0910/09NYK10.HTM
http://www.82games.com/0910/09POR6.HTM

Hawkeye15
08-20-2010, 08:58 PM
actually, Rudy is the better individual defender for sure. And the better shooter. Offensively, they are fairly even except in two things. Chandler is a much better scoring in the pick and roll, but Rudy is much better in the spot ups
Its a good deal both ways

tredigs
08-20-2010, 09:00 PM
Rudy's shooting is better- career eFG% 52.8 and career TS% 56.9 vs. Wilson's eFG% of 48.7 and TS% of 51.9. However, Wilson's shooting numbers were very comparable to Rudy's last year. Still, I think that was more due to a down year from Rudy.

Defensively, basketball reference shows a lower defensive rating for Rudy (career 108) then Wilson (career 112). Of course, that could also be due to the fact that Rudy plays for a defensive coach where defense is emphasized and Wilson plays for a coach where offense is emphasized and defense is not as important. Wilson probably has the tools/will be better defensively over his career. +/- statistics show an advantage for Rudy too but again, that could be the function of their respective coaches. I think Wilson has the capability to play better defense based on his athleticism and long wing span. Still, there's not much of a difference.

Passing wise Rudy is better- career 13.2 Ast% vs. Wilson's career 9.6 Ast%. If you prefer Assist Ratio, you come to the same conclusion. Although, Wilson is slightly better with the turnovers (TOV% or TR). Still, you'd be hard pressed to find a stat or watching film and come to the conclusion that Rudy isn't a better passer.

Wilson's the better rebounder but neither of them are particularly great. And in any case for a SG, rebounding isn't that important.

I think if you look at it from the teams perspectives, this trade does make some sense. Rudy is a better shooter and passer and would help the Knicks offensively. Wilson's game would help the Blazer's defensively. He's not likely to ever become that great of a shooter, so he's not an ideal fit for the Knicks system- which requires lots of shooting (3 pt shots especially), lots of passing and in general lots of offense. And right now, I would say Rudy is the better offensive player, though that may change. Wilson is kind of tough to get a read on though. He may end up being one of those role players who never maximized his potential or he could end up being pretty good.

Anyways, if people are interested in looking at their stats instead of just forming baseless opinions:
http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Rudy%20Fernandez
http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Wilson%20Chandler

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/f/fernaru01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chandwi01.html

http://www.82games.com/0910/09NYK10.HTM
http://www.82games.com/0910/09POR6.HTM

You remind me of me, I think that's why I like your posts.





What?

PatsSoxKnicks
08-20-2010, 09:08 PM
actually, Rudy is the better individual defender for sure. And the better shooter. Offensively, they are fairly even except in two things. Chandler is a much better scoring in the pick and roll, but Rudy is much better in the spot ups
Its a good deal both ways

Rudy is the better defender right now but I think part of that is due to the coaching both have received. Wouldn't you agree? From a physical standpoint, I think Wilson has the better defensive tools. I think if he's coached to play defense, he would be the better defender. But that is speculation and a guess on my part.

I agree but I think if I were to pick a player offensively right now, I'd take Rudy. For the Knicks system, Rudy is most def a better fit.

Hawkeye15
08-20-2010, 09:12 PM
Rudy is the better defender right now but I think part of that is due to the coaching both have received. Wouldn't you agree? From a physical standpoint, I think Wilson has the better defensive tools. I think if he's coached to play defense, he would be the better defender. But that is speculation and a guess on my part.

I agree but I think if I were to pick a player offensively right now, I'd take Rudy. For the Knicks system, Rudy is most def a better fit.

I agree for sure, that if Chandler is molded into a defender 1st, and given just a small role on offense, he could be a lockdown defender. But Rudy is better now.
And yes, for what the Knicks need, Rudy is the better option. The Knicks don't necessarily need a shot creator. I mean, they do, but neither Rudy nor Chandler are going to be a great one. So if you have Amare, and Gallo, add another deadeye, and get going

PatsSoxKnicks
08-20-2010, 09:17 PM
You remind me of me, I think that's why I like your posts.





What?

lol, likewise.

HouRealCoach
08-20-2010, 09:25 PM
Amare/ Turiaf
Randolph/ Azubuike
Gallanari/ Walker
Rudy/ Mason/ Rautins
Felton/ Douglas

Seems kinda solid... REALLY hope they get Melo and Paul

Then the ECF will be great as the WCF in 2002 was!

PatsSoxKnicks
08-20-2010, 09:27 PM
I agree for sure, that if Chandler is molded into a defender 1st, and given just a small role on offense, he could be a lockdown defender. But Rudy is better now.
And yes, for what the Knicks need, Rudy is the better option. The Knicks don't necessarily need a shot creator. I mean, they do, but neither Rudy nor Chandler are going to be a great one. So if you have Amare, and Gallo, add another deadeye, and get going

I agree. I'm hoping they get Paul eventually as I think he'd be a perfect fit for Mike's system (not that Paul isn't a perfect fit for any system). I think Felton is a nice stop gap but I'm not sure of him as any long term solution, which is why I liked the fact they signed him to a short contract.

boriquaabe
08-20-2010, 10:40 PM
its 2010 man, people smoke weed.

your missing the point.

I smoke weed and have never been pulled over with a cloud of smoke and a glove compartment full of nickel bags. That proves he's not too smart.

Second, He's expected to perform as a world class athlete and gets paid well to do so. Even a peon like make who played college ball put the pipe away for the years I played. I owed my team and teammates that much.

Third, how did Josh Howards career fair after he stupidly told the public he smoked pot and it was no big deal?

If you want to smoke a little herb during the off season fine go for just don't get caught. He's a high profile athlete nothing good can come from it.

How did the ganja use do for Ricky Williams? Not too good did it.

Where the eff were this guy's priorities?

Look the truth is this guy proves to be dumb as dirt on the court and off so he won't be missed. I'll take the guy who is desperate to play and prove himself any day of the week.

streetballa
08-20-2010, 11:17 PM
Although we can pretty much agree people use the green stuff often, this has been a constant. However, it is an illegal substance and since it is an illegal act it shows poor judgment and thus makes the franchise look bad for having a poor character player. There is a lot of money involved and teams want to make sure they keep a clean name.

NyPicks
08-20-2010, 11:22 PM
Amare/ Turiaf
Randolph/ Azubuike
Gallanari/ Walker
Rudy/ Mason/ Rautins
Felton/ Douglas

Seems kinda solid... REALLY hope they get Melo and Paul

Then the ECF will be great as the WCF in 2002 was!


Hes a 2, not a 4, and amare is the 4 randolph a 6th man and turiaf the 5

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4030

White_Mike
08-21-2010, 12:07 AM
Did anyone else state yet that Wilson Chandler took a test to prove he wasn't smoking on that night and he passed it? People act like he never did that.

PlezPlayDKnicks
08-21-2010, 12:36 AM
Id personally rather keep Will. Rudy would fit the seven seconds or less better. But Wil is so versatile and would not cause any chemistry issues. Rudy might get mad because he would be in a crunch with Azibuke, Walker, and TD sometimes.

Hawkeye15
08-21-2010, 12:39 AM
Id personally rather keep Will. Rudy would fit the seven seconds or less better. But Wil is so versatile and would not cause any chemistry issues. Rudy might get mad because he would be in a crunch with Azibuke, Walker, and TD sometimes.

The Knicks don't play that offense anymore. They were middle of the pack pace wise.
Just thought I would correct you. In all reality, watching the Knicks the past 2 years, you can barely tell the change in pace. But they do in fact slow it up

NYtilIdie
08-21-2010, 12:45 AM
The Knicks don't play that offense anymore. They were middle of the pack pace wise.
Just thought I would correct you. In all reality, watching the Knicks the past 2 years, you can barely tell the change in pace. But they do in fact slow it up

That was because Duhon couldn't handle the 7 sec. or less offense so Mike adjusted to half-court offense last season.

But after we signed Felton, Mike said he may go back to 7 sec or less since Felton succeeded in that system in college.

Iodine
08-21-2010, 12:49 AM
That was because Duhon couldn't handle the 7 sec. or less offense so Mike adjusted to half-court offense last season.

But after we signed Felton, Mike said he may go back to 7 sec or less since Felton succeeded in that system in college.

Are you sure?(not saying your wrong I really want to know)

Mplsman
08-21-2010, 12:54 AM
Not bad for the Knicks.

sargon21
08-21-2010, 01:00 AM
what more can portland possibly want for this overrated bench player?? they have no leverage!!

PatsSoxKnicks
08-21-2010, 01:01 AM
The Knicks don't play that offense anymore. They were middle of the pack pace wise.
Just thought I would correct you. In all reality, watching the Knicks the past 2 years, you can barely tell the change in pace. But they do in fact slow it up

While thats true, I think the Knicks will go back to the SSOL offense or some semblance of it. Mike shifted away from it because he didn't really have the players. Do they go Phoenix style SSOL? Probably not, as Felton isn't Steve Nash. But I think Felton does have the ability to play in that system (even if he's been on the slowed down Charlotte team the last couple years, he played at UNC in college), so I expect they'll be back among the top in pace.

Hawkeye15
08-21-2010, 01:03 AM
While thats true, I think the Knicks will go back to the SSOL offense or some semblance of it. Mike shifted away from it because he didn't really have the players. Do they go Phoenix style SSOL? Probably not, as Felton isn't Steve Nash. But I think Felton does have the ability to play in that system (even if he's been on the slowed down Charlotte team the last couple years, he played at UNC in college), so I expect they'll be back among the top in pace.

totally agree. I think the Knicks enter the top 5 in pace next season for sure.

Yunqn
08-21-2010, 01:14 AM
I wonder if this would have any ramifications on acquiring Carmelo.

i dont think it should if melo said lets wait til the deadline and see the knicks could get him easier..with anthony randolph being available

curry,gallo,randolph,cash, & 2040 's 1st

if melo really wanted to go..nuggets need to replace melo and martin with young uptempo guys..randolph & gallo would fit that like a glove..

boriquaabe
08-21-2010, 02:17 AM
Did anyone else state yet that Wilson Chandler took a test to prove he wasn't smoking on that night and he passed it? People act like he never did that.

Ever heard of synthetic urine?

nanablvd
08-21-2010, 02:27 AM
First round draft pick doesnt value much when the teams are potential title contenders, the celtics and bulls. gotta need more than a draft pick.

NYtilIdie
08-21-2010, 02:59 AM
your missing the point.

I smoke weed and have never been pulled over with a cloud of smoke and a glove compartment full of nickel bags. That proves he's not too smart.

Second, He's expected to perform as a world class athlete and gets paid well to do so. Even a peon like make who played college ball put the pipe away for the years I played. I owed my team and teammates that much.

Third, how did Josh Howards career fair after he stupidly told the public he smoked pot and it was no big deal?

If you want to smoke a little herb during the off season fine go for just don't get caught. He's a high profile athlete nothing good can come from it.

How did the ganja use do for Ricky Williams? Not too good did it.

Where the eff were this guy's priorities?

Look the truth is this guy proves to be dumb as dirt on the court and off so he won't be missed. I'll take the guy who is desperate to play and prove himself any day of the week.

"Athlete's are not role models"
-Charles Barkley

First, stop trying to make Chandler look like a *******. He didn't pull a Josh Howard and make his smoking public, he didn't pull a Udonis Haslem and get caught with 20 grams. What Chandler does in the off-season on his own time is his business and so what if he got caught with weed, who cares? Nobody else cared, nobody in the Knicks forum cared, so why are you trying to blow this up into a big deal? We don't know if he was smoking, he had a passenger in the car with him maybe he was smoking. The report doesn't say Chandler was "stoned out his mind" like you're making it seem. Just like the Haslem situation the weed could have been the passengers.

Second, of all did you just compare Ricky Williams to Wilson Chandler? Ricky Williams left the league to go smoke weed all day in Africa, Chandler's situation is nothing like that. Chandler has never had serious trouble with the law up you act like he just pulled a Stephenson and pushed his GF down the stairs. So yes, the whole "he's dumb as dirt" comment was pushing it way too far.

Third, Chandler isn't an idiot on the court he doesn't make idiot decisions like Duhon or Harrington. He isn't an idiot off-court either. One mistake allows you to make a full judgement on someone? So since you like to call posters names and get banned constantly does that give me the right to label you a moron? No. This is his first run-in with the law and it wasn't even that serious.

Also to say he won't be missed is just plain ridiculous, look I know you being banned constantly makes you miss time from the NYK forum, but you should know better to say something like that. Chandler is one of the most beloved players on the Knicks roster right now and I haven't heard any posters say anything negative about him as a person or player.

Fact is majority of the Knicks forum would rather keep Chandler then give him up for some immature 25 year old whose threating to sit out the next 2 seasons because he won't get what he wants. In fact the poll results right now on who do Knick fans want between Chandler and Rudy is
Chandler-54
Rudy-20
Yeah, I guess that shows how much we can't stand him right?

I find that last part funny as you just described Chandler. The man has been working all off-season to improve his game, he's been in the practice center all summer working on his conditioning and ever since he's been cleared for physical work he's been working on his ball-handling and other aspects of his game all summer.

So if you had a choice to choose between a primadonna, cry baby or a gym rat, silent, never runs his mouth or complains. And you chose the primadonna I would just like to say good luck with your franchise sir!

Bivory
08-21-2010, 10:34 AM
actually, Rudy is the better individual defender for sure. And the better shooter. Offensively, they are fairly even except in two things. Chandler is a much better scoring in the pick and roll, but Rudy is much better in the spot ups
Its a good deal both ways

Horrible...just horrible...Rudy can't defend me let alone other 2 guards in this league...Rudy's name shouldn't be mentioned in the same breathe as Will.

Hawkeye15
08-21-2010, 10:37 AM
Horrible...just horrible...Rudy can't defend me let alone other 2 guards in this league...Rudy's name shouldn't be mentioned in the same breathe as Will.

I don't have access to Synergy at work to paste the numbers for you, but everything I said is true, and I will show you later.
And as discussed above, I think Chandler has the POTENTIAL to be a very good defender. But he aint there yet. D'Antonio isn't known to develop defenders.

Bivory
08-21-2010, 10:38 AM
Ever heard of synthetic urine?

So now NBA drug tests are rigged??? Please...let's at least be honest here. Will wasn't smoking, it was a friend in the car.

BTW, I would rather have a guy make a few bad choices with his friends as apposed to threatening a team to not fulfill a contract. What ever happened to earning your playing time. Rudy is just flat out not good enough and comparing him to Will is ridiculous. he doesn't measure up. I wish a player would tell the Knicks that they are gonna go back to Europe if they don;t get more playing time. NY'ers would ship his ***** out of town on the next plane....

Why NY'ers would even want a guy like that is unreal...

Please trade Will, most people here obviously don't appreciate what Will brings to the table anyway. Can't wait for Portland to play the Knicks...Who's gonna guard Will on this team? It will be great to see Will playing in the post season.

29$JerZ
08-21-2010, 10:42 AM
Rudy supposedly was promised a big role on the team. Hard to get minutes behind Roy and then have a solid yung guy in Batum doing well at SF. Then you factor in the coach is known for not playing European born players. I see where Rudy is coming from in wanting out.

However his situation is not of the caliber that demands he sits out 2 years just to leave the team. Playing time is earned, that type of attitude is not needed in a business. NBA is not just a game its a job, anyone who would pull this stunt would easily be fired and replaced.

I'd still take Wilson over Rudy. Rudy may be the ideal SG for NY but their is more to the game than just shooting from outside 20ft.

Bivory
08-21-2010, 10:52 AM
I don't have access to Synergy at work to paste the numbers for you, but everything I said is true, and I will show you later.
And as discussed above, I think Chandler has the POTENTIAL to be a very good defender. But he aint there yet. D'Antonio isn't known to develop defenders.

You can't possibly believe Rudy is a better defender than Will. You just can't. If you watched any Knicks games, you would have seen Will guard 4 positions well this past yr and to say Rudy is better is absolutely false. It's not even close. And if you watched the Knicks play, you would realize that in D'an ridiculous defensive system, they switch on every play so I can't see how you would think Rudy will work well in that scenario. Will's team D is astronomically better. You gotta watch the kid play more.

Hawkeye15
08-21-2010, 10:53 AM
You can't possibly believe Rudy is a better defender than Will. You just can't. If you watched any Knicks games, you would have seen Will guard 4 positions well this past yr and to say Rudy is better is absolutely false. It's not even close. And if you watched the Knicks play, you would realize that in D'an ridiculous system, they switch on every play so I can't see how you would think Rudy will work well in that scenario. Will's team D is astronomically better. You gotta watch the kid play more.

I have watched the kid play. Why is that always the excuse or retort when someone brings up what the statistics actually show?
As I said, I will show you the numbers later. Until then, you are spinning your wheels.

Bivory
08-21-2010, 11:03 AM
I have watched the kid play. Why is that always the excuse or retort when someone brings up what the statistics actually show?
As I said, I will show you the numbers later. Until then, you are spinning your wheels.

Because when you make such a false claim, the reason has to be that you don't know the players in question.

So you must not remember the 27pts and 5ast and 4rbs Will put up vs your squad the last time they played or the time before that when he put up 20 pts and 6 rbs and dunked on the entire front line of your Wolves. Memories are short around here. I'll let you check and see what Rudy did. Pales in comparison.

Hawkeye15
08-21-2010, 11:06 AM
Because when you make such a false claim, the reason has to be that you don't know the players in question.

So you must not remember the 27pts and 5ast and 4rbs Will put up vs your squad the last time they played or the time before that when he put up 20 pts and 6 rbs and dunked on the entire front line of your Wolves. Memories are short around here. I'll let you check and see what Rudy did. Pales in comparison.

I put the claim up after comparing the two last night dude. I didn't feel the need to post the evidence at the time, I said I would later.

And I don't gauge a player on how they play against the Wolves. If I did that, I would think they need to make the all star rosters 5 times the size it is now.

Bivory
08-21-2010, 11:09 AM
Is there a stat that measures defensive versatility and team defense? Can't wait to see this.

Hawkeye15
08-21-2010, 11:11 AM
posted it before, posting it again for those who continue to overvalue their man (which is a common disease on this site)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=chandwi01&y1=2010&p2=fernaru01&y2=2010

pretty damn similar. They do different things, but its a good swap both ways. The ironic thing is, if the trade went through, NY fans would be riding Rudy's nuts, and saying how Chandler had talent, but never grew into it and isn't that good of a player.

Hawkeye15
08-21-2010, 11:11 AM
Is there a stat that measures defensive versatility and team defense? Can't wait to see this.

:)

Bivory
08-21-2010, 11:19 AM
posted it before, posting it again for those who continue to overvalue their man (which is a common disease on this site)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=chandwi01&y1=2010&p2=fernaru01&y2=2010

pretty damn similar. They do different things, but its a good swap both ways. The ironic thing is, if the trade went through, NY fans would be riding Rudy's nuts, and saying how Chandler had talent, but never grew into it and isn't that good of a player.

Trust me, Rudy already has plenty of support in NY and he hasn't done squat his entire career. Makes no sense but it's true. Some Knick fans seem to be falling in love with the Euro player which is fine, but can we wait for them to do something first before trading one of the best young chips on the team? the only way any of this makes sense is if there is a larger deal going on behind the scenes.

Hawkeye15
08-21-2010, 11:32 AM
Trust me, Rudy already has plenty of support in NY and he hasn't done squat his entire career. Makes no sense but it's true. Some Knick fans seem to be falling in love with the Euro player which is fine, but can we wait for them to do something first before trading one of the best young chips on the team? the only way any of this makes sense is if there is a larger deal going on behind the scenes.

Why were NY fans willing to chuck the #8 pick and Chandler for Rubio then?
And did you pull up the comparison link? Can you really tell me there is much difference in their efficiency? If Rudy didn't have to play behind Roy, and got the minutes, you are looking at a similar line roughly.
And in reality, Chandler will have to be renounced at some point if you want Melo and Parker or CP3. So why not get something for him?
Just a thought.

Hellcrooner
08-21-2010, 11:47 AM
Trust me, Rudy already has plenty of support in NY and he hasn't done squat his entire career. Makes no sense but it's true. Some Knick fans seem to be falling in love with the Euro player which is fine, but can we wait for them to do something first before trading one of the best young chips on the team? the only way any of this makes sense is if there is a larger deal going on behind the scenes.

Behind the scenes Kniks are getting melo.

So whats the better situation.

Trade gallo get Melo chandler to th e bench NO starting quality Sg then LOSE chandler for NOTHING because if you resign him you cant chase tony parker on FA or Paul the folowing year:

Basically you end up only with melo

DOnt do anything, sign melo at fa, chandler has to walk for the numbers to work.
You end up with Gallo amd MELO wich play Same position and no Staring like SG.

Or Trade Chandler, Get Rudy with his 1 million extension for next year , KEEP Gallo and SIgn Melo as a FREE AGENT giving uo NOTHING to the nuggets.
YOu end with Rudy+Melo`+Gallo

Hellcrooner
08-21-2010, 11:49 AM
Why were NY fans willing to chuck the #8 pick and Chandler for Rubio then?
And did you pull up the comparison link? Can you really tell me there is much difference in their efficiency? If Rudy didn't have to play behind Roy, and got the minutes, you are looking at a similar line roughly.
And in reality, Chandler will have to be renounced at some point if you want Melo and Parker or CP3. So why not get something for him?
Just a thought.

Not to mention Rudy has to deal with coming on and off the bench in litle spurts wich afects his game negatively since he is a volume shooter and a player that needs rythm.
And that hi game has suffered from being used just as spot up shoter instead of alowing him to display his FULL game , Pasisng, distributing, handling, creating plays for others, creating his shot, driving in etc.

If given starters minutes he would DESTROY chandler.

KnicksGuard
08-21-2010, 11:55 AM
Bad Trade for Knicks.

spree
08-21-2010, 12:13 PM
i can only make my peace with this trade if it results in a way that helps us getting melo.

NYtilIdie
08-21-2010, 01:17 PM
Not to mention Rudy has to deal with coming on and off the bench in litle spurts wich afects his game negatively since he is a volume shooter and a player that needs rythm.
And that hi game has suffered from being used just as spot up shoter instead of alowing him to display his FULL game , Pasisng, distributing, handling, creating plays for others, creating his shot, driving in etc.

If given starters minutes he would DESTROY chandler.

Thats all he is. He doesn't finish better then Will and he can't defend all 5 postions like Will.

Stop trying to make Rudy look dominant, Rudy hasn't done anything special in his career except complain and act childish. PT is earned not handed to you, I don't care if Roy or Batum is ahead of you, you should bust your *** everyday to show you deserve PT. Plus Batum is always hurt with some type of shoulder injury so his chance was there, but he rather have his PT handed to him then earned. This isn't Europe you gotta earn your s**t here.

Didn't Rudy start in when Roy went down? Oh but he was injured right so that affected his game right? Well you know what Chandler was hurt also playing with a severe groin injury that needed surgery and was playing with a broken nose but we didn't know about either until he was shut down the last 15 games of the season in fact he was playing with both injuries since the ASB and possibly even earlier. The fact he was able to remain the most consistent player behind Lee and play like nothing was wrong with him makes him a better player then Rudy.

Rudy is nothing more then a 3pt shooter, but we have Buike (who is a better overall player then Rudy also) Walker, Gallo and Douglass.

If we had Rudy i'd still start Buike over him.

blazerman
08-21-2010, 01:19 PM
this would be fair for both sides. Chandler could back up both Batum and Roy, and Rudy would have playing time right away

I'd be cool with a Chandler for Rudy deal.

NYKNYGNYY
08-21-2010, 01:34 PM
id like it

blazerman
08-21-2010, 01:46 PM
what if the knicks are trying to get fernandez to package with Galo and 2 #1's for Melo

regardless of Melo wanting to play in NY, the Nuggets wouldnt make that lousy deal. The Nets could throw a Favors/Williams/Harris and a couple of 1st rders(or something to that effect) deal at the Nuggets and they'd probably do that and Melo would probably sign because the Nets would have cap space and Paul would probably look hard at teaming with Melo/Lopez.

Red Hot Rolllin
08-21-2010, 01:52 PM
I like this deal too... Chandler backing up Batum and Mathews backing up Roy is solid.

Hellcrooner
08-21-2010, 01:54 PM
I like this deal too... Chandler backing up Batum and Mathews backing up Roy is solid.

I bet knicks fans thingk Chandler will start for blazers :rolleyes:


ummm o wait......Nate is still there.......poor Nico:(

Kidd>>>K-Mart
08-21-2010, 02:06 PM
even trade

PatsSoxKnicks
08-21-2010, 02:08 PM
I bet knicks fans thingk Chandler will start for blazers :rolleyes:


ummm o wait......Nate is still there.......poor Nico:(

Hey, not all Knicks fans are homers. I know there are quite a few Knicks fans who overrate Wilson but what do you expect? Everyone overrates their own players.

Hellcrooner
08-21-2010, 02:09 PM
regardless of Melo wanting to play in NY, the Nuggets wouldnt make that lousy deal. The Nets could throw a Favors/Williams/Harris and a couple of 1st rders(or something to that effect) deal at the Nuggets and they'd probably do that and Melo would probably sign because the Nets would have cap space and Paul would probably look hard at teaming with Melo/Lopez.

I think Melo has been prety specific on KNICKS.

So if im nets i wdlnt trade knowing he May walk to another nighborhood.

Hellcrooner
08-21-2010, 02:10 PM
Hey, not all Knicks fans are homers. I know there are quite a few Knicks fans who overrate Wilson but what do you expect? Everyone overrates their own players.

I dont know.
I get a lot of fire when i say we need to trade Bynum, and say some names that make sense.
Other fans go xrazy on me because tey think hes the next WIlt or something :p

Red Hot Rolllin
08-21-2010, 02:12 PM
I think Melo has been prety specific on KNICKS.

So if im nets i wdlnt trade knowing he May walk to another nighborhood.

Pretty sure Melo is from Brooklyn... so in two years he would be playing in his hometown, maybe the Brooklyn Nets can if Jersey can't.

PatsSoxKnicks
08-21-2010, 02:13 PM
I dont know.
I get a lot of fire when i say we need to trade Bynum, and say some names that make sense.
Other fans go xrazy on me because tey think hes the next WIlt or something :p

I'm the same way, I try to remain objective and I always try to make sure I have some statistics to back up my point.

And I would agree about trading Bynum, while he's got so much potential, he's injured every other game practically. But it must be particularly tough with the Laker fanbase.

valade16
08-21-2010, 02:29 PM
I bet knicks fans thingk Chandler will start for blazers :rolleyes:


ummm o wait......Nate is still there.......poor Nico:(

The same batum who started last year right? :eyebrow:

Seriously, take your Nate doesn't like foreign players conspiracy, and flush it down the toilet.

It's been proven false so many times it gets exhausting seeing you post the same garbage about it, there is no foreign player conspiracy!!! :mad:

As steven colbert said "you stand to your convictions. You believe the same thing on wednesday as you did on monday, REGARDLESS of what happened on tuesday"...

Hawkeye15
08-21-2010, 02:32 PM
Hey, not all Knicks fans are homers. I know there are quite a few Knicks fans who overrate Wilson but what do you expect? Everyone overrates their own players.

not me







Kevin Love will be an all star...

Hellcrooner
08-21-2010, 02:45 PM
The same batum who started last year right? :eyebrow:

Seriously, take your Nate doesn't like foreign players conspiracy, and flush it down the toilet.

It's been proven false so many times it gets exhausting seeing you post the same garbage about it, there is no foreign player conspiracy!!! :mad:

As steven colbert said "you stand to your convictions. You believe the same thing on wednesday as you did on monday, REGARDLESS of what happened on tuesday"...

Only after Ptricht traded Outlow.
if you get chandler just wait and see.

blazerman
08-21-2010, 02:50 PM
Pretty sure Melo is from Brooklyn... so in two years he would be playing in his hometown, maybe the Brooklyn Nets can if Jersey can't.

good point RHR

valade16
08-21-2010, 03:25 PM
Only after Ptricht traded Outlow.
if you get chandler just wait and see.

WRONG!! :mad:

That is WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Batum was starting his ROOKIE Year! And last year, he only didn't start like 7 games because he was coming off injury!

And Outlaw didn't start a SINGLE game last year for the Blazers!! :mad:

Rudy started more games than Outlaw last year!

Jesus, are you this obtuse intentionally?! :confused:

Your wrong, wrong. THERE IS NO NATE MCMILLIAN CONSPIRACY AGAINST FOREIGN PLAYERS!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

PatsSoxKnicks
08-21-2010, 04:18 PM
not me


Kevin Love will be an all star...

lol, he probably will be an all-star at some point.

shen
08-21-2010, 05:39 PM
Not worth it to argue with Crooner, can prove him wrong a dozen times a post and he just ignores it.

nanablvd
08-21-2010, 05:51 PM
Rudy will be huge for the Knicks. I will be willing to part ways wit Chandler too. If Portland deems Rudy as a distraction to the team and decides trading him is best for the organization, Chandler and a first round pick sound reasonable returns.

goblazers7
08-21-2010, 05:53 PM
nicee

Bivory
08-21-2010, 07:05 PM
Not to mention Rudy has to deal with coming on and off the bench in litle spurts wich afects his game negatively since he is a volume shooter and a player that needs rythm.
And that hi game has suffered from being used just as spot up shoter instead of alowing him to display his FULL game , Pasisng, distributing, handling, creating plays for others, creating his shot, driving in etc.

If given starters minutes he would DESTROY chandler.

Preposterous...lol...How in the world can you make a claim like that. Oh, he needs volume shots to be effective???...It's hard not laughing at these statements.....You guys act like the guy never gets off the bench. Guess what, he does and if he were so effective shooting the ball, wouldn't e be absolutely perfect in a system that has a legit first option and plenty of good passing bigs that get double teamed all day long? I mean come on...The guy couldn't have a better situation and he still isn't getting it done. If he could handle that ball and shoot very well, wouldn't he be perfect to play with a guy like Roy and the bigs on that team? Seriously fellas, Rudy is exactly what he looks like which is a good role player to come off the bench and add a little sparc...if he's on that night. BTW, Gallo shot 488 3's last yr...Do the KNicks really need another long ball threat who needs "volume shots" to be effective? Stop the craziness...

Hawkeye15
08-21-2010, 07:08 PM
Preposterous...lol...How in the world can you make a claim like that. Oh, he needs volume shots to be effective???...It's hard not laughing at these statements.....You guys act like the guy never gets off the bench. Guess what, he does and if he were so effective shooting the ball, wouldn't e be absolutely perfect in a system that has a legit first option and plenty of good passing bigs that get double teamed all day long? I mean come on...The guy couldn't have a better situation and he still isn't getting it done. If he could handle that ball and shoot very well, wouldn't he be perfect to play Roy and the bigs on that team? Seriously fellas, Rudy is exactly what he looks like which is a good role player to come off the bench and add a little sparc...if he's on that night. BTW, Gallo shot 488 3's last yr...Do the KNicks really need another long ball threat who needs "volume shots" to be effective? Stop the craziness...

and what is Chandler? He is a role player as well. This would basically be a change of role players for team needs. And it has been covered time and time again. If the Knicks somehow are going to get Melo, and either Parker or Paul, Chandler will need to be renounced. Why not get something for him, without it hurting the win column? Chandler will never realize his full potential under Mike, who doesn't preach defense at all. Rudy would. Mike likes scorers/shooters
I will post those numbers a bit later on the defense stuff man.

Bivory
08-21-2010, 07:10 PM
Rudy will be huge for the Knicks. I will be willing to part ways wit Chandler too. If Portland deems Rudy as a distraction to the team and decides trading him is best for the organization, Chandler and a first round pick sound reasonable returns.

Wow, Chandler and a first????

I know I've been on the course all day but I think some of you hit the booze harder than I did...:drunk::drunk::drunk::drunk:

jiggin
08-21-2010, 07:12 PM
knicks don't have a first round pick...so that ends that discussion.

boriquaabe
08-21-2010, 07:15 PM
and what is Chandler? He is a role player as well. This would basically be a change of role players for team needs. And it has been covered time and time again. If the Knicks somehow are going to get Melo, and either Parker or Paul, Chandler will need to be renounced. Why not get something for him, without it hurting the win column? Chandler will never realize his full potential under Mike, who doesn't preach defense at all. Rudy would. Mike likes scorers/shooters
I will post those numbers a bit later on the defense stuff man.

You don't need to post numbers...

Tell me is the NBA defensively primarily a man to man league?

And when your done answering that tell me who on the Knicks would have been considered a good man to man defender?

And then tell me this do you agree that Steve Nash and Amar'e were two of the worst man to man defenders when Mike D was the head coach of the Suns and they still were statistically in the middle of the pack of the league defensively?

And finally in summary all coaches "preach" defense it's just in the NBA you need the personnel to be up to the task.

Bivory
08-21-2010, 07:16 PM
and what is Chandler? He is a role player as well. This would basically be a change of role players for team needs. And it has been covered time and time again. If the Knicks somehow are going to get Melo, and either Parker or Paul, Chandler will need to be renounced. Why not get something for him, without it hurting the win column? Chandler will never realize his full potential under Mike, who doesn't preach defense at all. Rudy would. Mike likes scorers/shooters
I will post those numbers a bit later on the defense stuff man.

Why are people saying and thinking the Knicks need to make moves based on IF's.....If we get him or him or him....lol

That's not a smart way to run an organization.

Will might be a role player but he's the best SF on the Knicks on a cheap contract even if resigned at 5.5 mill....BTW, even if Knicks get Rudy, he still won't be the best 2 on the team. Azi is much better and plays D so let's be real about just how much Rudy would FIT the Knicks

How in the world do you know whether Will can or can't realize his potential? Seriously, now some of you are soothsayers????:D:D:D

Bivory
08-21-2010, 09:32 PM
Maybe Blazers don't want another SF. They have up and comer Batum and Claver looks like he could be a damn good SF in this league. 6 9' 22 yrs old with those skills...whoa

a little video Claver:

2009 Blazers Draft pick Victor Claver

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhSmBuB81tg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alV6DcGBggA

Hawkeye15
08-21-2010, 09:36 PM
You don't need to post numbers...

Tell me is the NBA defensively primarily a man to man league?

And when your done answering that tell me who on the Knicks would have been considered a good man to man defender?

And then tell me this do you agree that Steve Nash and Amar'e were two of the worst man to man defenders when Mike D was the head coach of the Suns and they still were statistically in the middle of the pack of the league defensively?

And finally in summary all coaches "preach" defense it's just in the NBA you need the personnel to be up to the task.

mmmm, no, you can look at defensive stats to tell us how they are. Advanced stats can be set so they only measure a player's opportunities when they are 1-1.
The Knicks had nobody considered a good man to man defender
I have been saying for around 8 years how pathetic Amare and Nash were on defense.
And no, D'Antonio continually churns out pathetic defensive teams. He is a wizard as an offensive coach, and severely lacking defensively. You will notice when Skiles, JVG, Riley, and certain coaches take over a team with suspect defense, they become very good defensively

Anything else?

Hawkeye15
08-21-2010, 09:38 PM
Why are people saying and thinking the Knicks need to make moves based on IF's.....If we get him or him or him....lol

That's not a smart way to run an organization.

Will might be a role player but he's the best SF on the Knicks on a cheap contract even if resigned at 5.5 mill....BTW, even if Knicks get Rudy, he still won't be the best 2 on the team. Azi is much better and plays D so let's be real about just how much Rudy would FIT the Knicks

How in the world do you know whether Will can or can't realize his potential? Seriously, now some of you are soothsayers????:D:D:D

Chandler is an unskilled SF, fundamentally. So he would be better served being molded into a Gerald Wallace type. But Mike D doesn't mold defenders. Never has. Never will. Not his thing.
If you continue to think Chandler fits their system better, than you are doing so under the idea that they are going forward as currently constructed.

Bivory
08-21-2010, 10:29 PM
Chandler is an unskilled SF, fundamentally. So he would be better served being molded into a Gerald Wallace type. But Mike D doesn't mold defenders. Never has. Never will. Not his thing.
If you continue to think Chandler fits their system better, than you are doing so under the idea that they are going forward as currently constructed.

Until something significantly better comes along, why waste assets. Let your young players grow and become more valuable for something big down the road. Add him to a Melo or CP3 type of trade if you have to but not for Rudy

SouthSideRookie
08-21-2010, 11:30 PM
I think Melo has been prety specific on KNICKS.

So if im nets i wdlnt trade knowing he May walk to another nighborhood.

It's highly unlikely that Carmelo will get traded without him agreeing on a contract extension with whatever team he approves a trade to, there's a pending CBA, and in contrast to what Knick fans say, I don't think that he will leave all that money on the table.

PatsSoxKnicks
08-22-2010, 12:19 AM
mmmm, no, you can look at defensive stats to tell us how they are. Advanced stats can be set so they only measure a player's opportunities when they are 1-1.
The Knicks had nobody considered a good man to man defender
I have been saying for around 8 years how pathetic Amare and Nash were on defense.
And no, D'Antonio continually churns out pathetic defensive teams. He is a wizard as an offensive coach, and severely lacking defensively. You will notice when Skiles, JVG, Riley, and certain coaches take over a team with suspect defense, they become very good defensively

Anything else?

So are you posting the stats from synergy? I would like to see them. I'm curious about what I'm missing out on :(

Hellcrooner
08-22-2010, 12:26 AM
Maybe Blazers don't want another SF. They have up and comer Batum and Claver looks like he could be a damn good SF in this league. 6 9' 22 yrs old with those skills...whoa

a little video Claver:

2009 Blazers Draft pick Victor Claver

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhSmBuB81tg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alV6DcGBggA

shhhhhhhhhhhhh .

Lets see if Knicks offer Chandler AnD a first but they can sneak Clavers rights back in.


Please lord make portland trade clavers rights or fire nate before he joins.

icej
08-22-2010, 12:28 AM
If this materialized, this will add up to the other bad decisions of the knick's management.

boriquaabe
08-22-2010, 12:30 AM
mmmm, no, you can look at defensive stats to tell us how they are. Advanced stats can be set so they only measure a player's opportunities when they are 1-1.
The Knicks had nobody considered a good man to man defender
I have been saying for around 8 years how pathetic Amare and Nash were on defense.
And no, D'Antonio continually churns out pathetic defensive teams. He is a wizard as an offensive coach, and severely lacking defensively. You will notice when Skiles, JVG, Riley, and certain coaches take over a team with suspect defense, they become very good defensively

Anything else?

Can you not see how you are proving my point for me?

And how you are blatantly contradicting yourself?

These were your two comments to the questions I posed:

Amar'e and Nash are pathetic on defense....

Knicks had nobody considered a good man to man defender...

So how does this lead you to "Dantoni continually churns out pathetic defensive teams".....????

It's man to man defense. Have you ever played ball before? It's not a hard concept. There isn't much to it. Either a player has the heart and will to shut his man down or he doesn't. Either a player wants to hustle and has pride or he doesn't. There really isn't much a coach can do about it. These guys are in the NBA because they can put the ball in the bucket. Not because they dive and get dirty. How do you think guys like Michael Cooper, Bruce Bowen and James Posey have had jobs in the NBA? Because they did what the majority of the NBA players didn't want to do. Focus on playing defense because they weren't good enough at scoring the ball.

OA SLAY
08-22-2010, 12:52 AM
D'Antoni needs to go

Hawkeye15
08-22-2010, 01:47 AM
Can you not see how you are proving my point for me?

And how you are blatantly contradicting yourself?

These were your two comments to the questions I posed:

Amar'e and Nash are pathetic on defense....

Knicks had nobody considered a good man to man defender...

So how does this lead you to "Dantoni continually churns out pathetic defensive teams".....????

It's man to man defense. Have you ever played ball before? It's not a hard concept. There isn't much to it. Either a player has the heart and will to shut his man down or he doesn't. Either a player wants to hustle and has pride or he doesn't. There really isn't much a coach can do about it. These guys are in the NBA because they can put the ball in the bucket. Not because they dive and get dirty. How do you think guys like Michael Cooper, Bruce Bowen and James Posey have had jobs in the NBA? Because they did what the majority of the NBA players didn't want to do. Focus on playing defense because they weren't good enough at scoring the ball.

here is a quick example, cause I don't feel like wasting more than a minute responding to your post, because you are most likely not capable of backing it up with any evidence other than a 8th grade scouting report of effort.
When a coach who is known for defense in the NBA takes over a team that has essentially been constructed as a whole for a few years, and that said team has a sustained spike in defensive efficiency, its not that the players collectively decided to work harder. This is a coach who preaches defense, and holds his players accountable for failures on defense. These are things that Mike D does not do.

You listed assistant coaches who are ex players who all fit the exact description I just texted out for you by the way.

boriquaabe
08-22-2010, 01:51 AM
here is a quick example, cause I don't feel like wasting more than a minute responding to your post, because you are most likely not capable of backing it up with any evidence other than a 8th grade scouting report of effort.
When a coach who is known for defense in the NBA takes over a team that has essentially been constructed as a whole for a few years, and that said team has a sustained spike in defensive efficiency, its not that the players collectively decided to work harder. This is a coach who preaches defense, and holds his players accountable for failures on defense. These are things that Mike D does not do.

You listed assistant coaches who are ex players who all fit the exact description I just texted out for you by the way.

Wait refresh my memory. When did I list assistant coaches who were ex players?

And I didn't insult you why take a cheap shot at me?

boriquaabe
08-22-2010, 01:54 AM
Here you go you hawkeye15.... Here is live video evidence of Mike'D coaching in phoenix. You tell me he doesn't preach defense?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiO-7EpkITE

boriquaabe
08-22-2010, 01:56 AM
shhhhhhhhhhhhh .

Lets see if Knicks offer Chandler AnD a first but they can sneak Clavers rights back in.


Please lord make portland trade clavers rights or fire nate before he joins.

hey crooner do you think Clavers is going to start para espana?

I absolutely love his game. Does Portland hold his rights?

Hawkeye15
08-22-2010, 01:57 AM
Wait refresh my memory. When did I list assistant coaches who were ex players?

And I didn't insult you why take a cheap shot at me?

I apologize if you thought I was taking a shot, but you were using the "effort" argument. Anyone who makes the NBA should have effort. But it needs to be channeled. Why do you think Phil is such a great coach?

And you are correct, I don't mean assistant coaches, by b. The players you listed all play for coaches who are defensive motivators, or they did when they played.

Look, defense is obviously a high degree of effort. But if you don't have a coach that holds players accountable, and gives a large effort on that side of the floor, you will not have a good defensive team, regardless of the talent level.

Again, I wasnt attempting to take a shot at you. And at this point, you need to provide examples of why my statements are wrong. Because its statistically proven that mine are correct

boriquaabe
08-22-2010, 01:59 AM
I apologize if you thought I was taking a shot, but you were using the "effort" argument. Anyone who makes the NBA should have effort. But it needs to be channeled. Why do you think Phil is such a great coach?

And you are correct, I don't mean assistant coaches, by b. The players you listed all play for coaches who are defensive motivators, or they did when they played.

Look, defense is obviously a high degree of effort. But if you don't have a coach that holds players accountable, and gives a large effort on that side of the floor, you will not have a good defensive team, regardless of the talent level.

Again, I wasnt attempting to take a shot at you. And at this point, you need to provide examples of why my statements are wrong. Because its statistically proven that mine are correct

It's cool I understand now. Take a look at the vid I posted. Unless you are in the huddle or at practice you can't be certain Mike doesn't hold his players accountable for there lapses in defense.

Hawkeye15
08-22-2010, 02:01 AM
It's cool I understand now. Take a look at the vid I posted. Unless you are in the huddle or at practice you can't be certain Mike doesn't hold his players accountable for there lapses in defense.

defensive coaches get results on that side of the floor. Period. Regardless of the roster. Flip Saunders and Mike D'Antonio are probably the best offensive minds in the game. But they both are no threat, because their teams defense is not good enough due to neglect

boriquaabe
08-22-2010, 02:08 AM
defensive coaches get results on that side of the floor. Period. Regardless of the roster. Flip Saunders and Mike D'Antonio are probably the best offensive minds in the game. But they both are no threat, because their teams defense is not good enough due to neglect

I don't know if I can agree with that. The Suns not being able to get past the Spurs for two of his years were because the teams were a little unlucky.

What I think happens is guys look at the myriad of defensive stats that are available to stat geeks and this is how things are spawned. His Suns teams were no worse statistically in the defensive categories than the showtime lakers or Bird's Celtics. The difference is in the eighties most teams put up 120 points a night. The skill level in the NBA has drastically gone down and we credit it to teams being better at defense when it isn't. Teams are worse on offense so it deceives people into thinking defense in the NBA is the end all be all. When it isn't.

boriquaabe
08-22-2010, 02:12 AM
Can you honestly say the showtime lakers or Bird's Celtics were not as good defensively as this years celtics or the this years lakers? Take the 85 finals. One time in the 7 game series a team scored under 100 points. Do you honestly think this years version of the celtics could have held the showtime lakers under 100 even one time? No way no how.

D.Rose#1
08-22-2010, 02:33 AM
isnt he going back to spain anyway? i ****ing hate the blazers, *******s didnt trade hime.

PatsSoxKnicks
08-22-2010, 02:38 AM
defensive coaches get results on that side of the floor. Period. Regardless of the roster. Flip Saunders and Mike D'Antonio are probably the best offensive minds in the game. But they both are no threat, because their teams defense is not good enough due to neglect

I believe there was one year in Phoenix (07-08 I believe) where the Suns did rank in the top half of the league in defensive efficiency and I believe that was also the year that Amare and Diaw were suspended. A case could've been made that they win the title that year if Amare and Diaw weren't suspended.

Also, I do think that the Suns roster wasn't exactly constructed in the best way. They never really had a Center who could guard other big men and protect the paint. While I think Amare could be a better defender if he tried, he's never going to be a Perkins/Bynum/Howard/Duncan etc. All those guys have something in common and thats size. I don't think any of the Suns teams had that size.

Now maybe thats Mike's fault for not trying to address it but from what I recall, the Suns were constantly selling their first round picks.

And why do you keep calling him Mike D'Antonio? There's no o at the end. lol

Hellcrooner
08-22-2010, 02:41 AM
hey crooner do you think Clavers is going to start para espana?

I absolutely love his game. Does Portland hold his rights?

not yet, coach is conservative and prefers to go with the dudes that already have experience like garbajos or reyes.

boriquaabe
08-22-2010, 02:50 AM
not yet, coach is conservative and prefers to go with the dudes that already have experience like garbajos or reyes.

i like Clavers though. Did he get drafted?

lakers4sho
08-22-2010, 03:01 AM
i like Clavers though. Did he get drafted?

by Portland :o

boriquaabe
08-22-2010, 03:05 AM
by Portland :o

Ooh... sucks for him. Must have been a Pritchard pick.

Hellcrooner
08-22-2010, 05:32 AM
thats why i say if knicsk give up chandelr they shoudl askj both for rudy and Clavers rights

icej
08-22-2010, 06:07 AM
thats why i say if knicsk give up chandelr they shoudl askj both for rudy and Clavers rights

This is a better deal.

Hawkeye15
08-22-2010, 10:15 AM
I believe there was one year in Phoenix (07-08 I believe) where the Suns did rank in the top half of the league in defensive efficiency and I believe that was also the year that Amare and Diaw were suspended. A case could've been made that they win the title that year if Amare and Diaw weren't suspended.

Also, I do think that the Suns roster wasn't exactly constructed in the best way. They never really had a Center who could guard other big men and protect the paint. While I think Amare could be a better defender if he tried, he's never going to be a Perkins/Bynum/Howard/Duncan etc. All those guys have something in common and thats size. I don't think any of the Suns teams had that size.

Now maybe thats Mike's fault for not trying to address it but from what I recall, the Suns were constantly selling their first round picks.

And why do you keep calling him Mike D'Antonio? There's no o at the end. lol

ugh, I know. I have been doing that forever and know better. I honestly have no clue why I always chuck the o on there

jiggin
08-22-2010, 01:17 PM
thats why i say if knicsk give up chandelr they shoudl askj both for rudy and Clavers rights

THAT will NEVER happen.

knicks=love
08-22-2010, 01:27 PM
so whats the update on this?

knickfan33
08-22-2010, 02:12 PM
you guys are overrating wilson chandler so bad... rudy for wil would be a steal...

Wilson chandler is a SF he shouldnt be plaing SG, he has no furture on this team.
Rudy is a way better playmaker then wilson.