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View Full Version : How would you rank the following bench players?



dnewguy
08-19-2010, 07:58 PM
1 = Very good, 2 = good, 3 = somewhat useful, 4 = bad, 5 = horrible.

Note: The following players represent the Heat, Lakers, Bulls, Celtics and Magic.

Lamar Odom
Udonis Haslem
Glen Davis
Kyle Korver
Taj Gibson
Mike Miller
Steve Blake
Shannon Brown
Matt Barnes
Jermain Oneal
Nate Robinson
Ryan Anderson
Quentin Richardson
JJ Redick
Jason Williams
Michael pietrus
Eddie House
James Jones
Big Z

DoJoTheSlasher
08-19-2010, 08:02 PM
1 = Very good, 2 = good, 3 = somewhat useful, 4 = bad, 5 = horrible.

Lamar Odom 1+
Udonis Haslem 2
Glen Davis 3
Kyle Korver 3
Taj Gibson 3
Mike Miller 2
Steve Blake 3
Shannon Brown 3
Matt Barnes 3
Jermain Oneal 2
Nate Robinson 3
Ryan Anderson 3+
Quentin Richardson 3
JJ Redick 3
Jason Williams 3
Michael pietrus 2
Eddie House 3
James Jones 4
Big Z 3

posted above

dnewguy
08-19-2010, 08:04 PM
Lamar Odom 1
Udonis Haslem 3
Glen Davis 2
Kyle Korver 3
Taj Gibson 2
Mike Miller 1
Steve Blake 2
Shannon Brown 3
Matt Barnes 3
Jermain Oneal 5
Nate Robinson 3
Ryan Anderson 2
Quentin Richardson 3
JJ Redick 1
Jason Williams 4
Michael pietrus 2
Eddie House 3
James Jones 4
Big Z 3

Chacarron
08-19-2010, 08:07 PM
1 = very good, 2 = good, 3 = somewhat useful, 4 = bad, 5 = horrible.

Lamar odom 1
udonis haslem 2
glen davis 2
kyle korver 2
taj gibson 2
mike miller 1
steve blake 2
shannon brown 3
matt barnes 1
jermain oneal 1
nate robinson 2
ryan anderson 3
quentin richardson 1
jj redick 2
jason williams 2
michael pietrus 2
eddie house 3
james jones 4
big z 1 .

DoJoTheSlasher
08-19-2010, 08:07 PM
Lamar Odom has top 15 talent in the NBA. If he starts on any team, he averages 20 and 10 with 5 assists and great defense.

Niro
08-19-2010, 08:10 PM
Lamar Odom 1
Udonis Haslem 2
Glen Davis 2
Kyle Korver 3
Taj Gibson 3
Mike Miller 2
Steve Blake 3
Shannon Brown 3
Matt Barnes 2
Jermain Oneal 3
Nate Robinson 3
Ryan Anderson 3
Quentin Richardson 3
JJ Redick 3
Jason Williams 3
Michael pietrus 2
Eddie House 3
James Jones 4
Big Z 3

-Kobe24-TJ19-
08-19-2010, 08:11 PM
Lamar Odom 1
Udonis Haslem 2
Glen Davis 2
Kyle Korver 2
Taj Gibson 2
Mike Miller 1
Steve Blake 2
Shannon Brown 3
Matt Barnes 2
Jermain Oneal 3
Nate Robinson 3
Ryan Anderson 4
Quentin Richardson 3
JJ Redick 3
Jason Williams 3
Michael pietrus 3
Eddie House 3
James Jones 5
Big Z 3

dnewguy
08-19-2010, 08:13 PM
So far it looks like we all agree that James Jones is garbage and Odom is worthy.

Jays Claw
08-19-2010, 08:15 PM
Lamar Odom - 1
Udonis Haslem - 2
Glen Davis - 3
Kyle Korver - 3
Taj Gibson - 2
Mike Miller - 1
Steve Blake - 3
Shannon Brown - 3
Matt Barnes - 1
Jermain O'Neal - 2
Nate Robinson - 2
Ryan Anderson - 3
Quentin Richardson - 1
J.J Redick - 2
Jason Williams - 3
Michael Pietrus - 3
Eddie House - 2
James Jones - 4
Zydrunas Ilgauskas - 2

sofargone
08-19-2010, 08:17 PM
Lamar Odom 1
Udonis Haslem 2
Glen Davis 2
Kyle Korver 3
Taj Gibson 3
Mike Miller 2
Steve Blake 3
Shannon Brown 3
Matt Barnes 3
Jermain Oneal 3
Nate Robinson 4
Ryan Anderson 3
Quentin Richardson 4
JJ Redick 3
Jason Williams 4
Michael pietrus 3
Eddie House 3
James Jones 5
Big Z 3

ChiSox219
08-19-2010, 08:28 PM
1 = Very good, 2 = good, 3 = somewhat useful, 4 = bad, 5 = horrible.

Note: The following players represent the Heat, Lakers, Bulls, Celtics and Magic.


Lamar Odom---1
Udonis Haslem---3
Glen Davis---4
Kyle Korver---3
Taj Gibson---2
Mike Miller---2
Steve Blake---3
Shannon Brown---3/4
Matt Barnes---2
Jermain Oneal---3
Nate Robinson---3
Ryan Anderson---2
Quentin Richardson---3
JJ Redick---2
Jason Williams---3
Michael pietrus---3
Eddie House---3
James Jones---4
Big Z---3/4


Just off the top of my head

Odom is the only guy on that list I'd want starting for my team.

NYtilIdie
08-19-2010, 08:39 PM
1 = Very good, 2 = good, 3 = somewhat useful, 4 = bad, 5 = horrible.

Note: The following players represent the Heat, Lakers, Bulls, Celtics and Magic.

Lamar Odom-1
Udonis Haslem1
Glen Davis-3
Kyle Korver-3
Taj Gibson-4
Mike Miller-2
Steve Blake-3
Shannon Brown-4
Matt Barnes-3
Jermain Oneal-3
Nate Robinson-2
Ryan Anderson-3
Quentin Richardson-4
JJ Redick-3
Jason Williams-3
Michael pietrus-3
Eddie House-4
James Jones-4
Big Z-3



:)

ChiSox219
08-19-2010, 08:42 PM
Glen Davis 2




Glen Davis 2




Glen Davis 2



Glen Davis 2



Glen Davis 2


What am I missing with Glen Davis?

Swashcuff
08-19-2010, 08:44 PM
Lamar Odom has top 15 talent in the NBA. If he starts on any team, he averages 20 and 10 with 5 assists and great defense.

he has never done that before in his career when given the opp. I don't think he'd get that now.

ManRam
08-19-2010, 08:49 PM
Lamar Odom 1
Udonis Haslem 2
Glen Davis 2
Kyle Korver 2
Taj Gibson 2
Mike Miller 1
Steve Blake (is he going to be a bench player?) 2
Shannon Brown 4
Matt Barnes 2
Jermain Oneal 3
Nate Robinson 3 (inconsistency, can be worthless, or dynamite)
Ryan Anderson 3
Quentin Richardson (will be starting) 2
JJ Redick 2 (I wanted to do a 1, because he's a boss)
Jason Williams 3
Michael pietrus 2 (he sucked last year, but his defense is great)
Eddie House 2
James Jones 4
Big Z 3

ChiSox219
08-19-2010, 08:51 PM
he has never done that before in his career when given the opp. I don't think he'd get that now.

The thing about Odom is he's always had this unbelievable talent and fans think if he's not dropping 30 a night, he hasn't reached his potential.

In fact, I think Odom is a top 25 player in this league because he does so many things so well. But because he's not scoring a lot, fans choose to ignore his outstanding defense, passing, rebounding, and off the ball movement.

ChiSox219
08-19-2010, 08:52 PM
Glen Davis gets a 6

He's turrrible.

Swashcuff
08-19-2010, 08:55 PM
Glen Davis gets a 6

He's turrrible.

you know i was going to make a serious reply to what you said about Odom and actually look to have a debate but then i scroll down and read this. You lost any chance at credibility with this.

YankeesNets11
08-19-2010, 09:02 PM
Lamar Odom 1
Udonis Haslem 2
Glen Davis 3
Kyle Korver 3
Taj Gibson 2
Mike Miller 2
Steve Blake 2
Shannon Brown 3
Matt Barnes 2
Jermaine Oneal 2
Nate Robinson 3
Ryan Anderson 3
Quentin Richardson 2
JJ Redick 2
Jason Williams 3
Michael pietrus 3
Eddie House 3
James Jones 4
Big Z 2

ChiSox219
08-19-2010, 09:08 PM
you know i was going to make a serious reply to what you said about Odom and actually look to have a debate but then i scroll down and read this. You lost any chance at credibility with this.

Why is that?

Davis is an inefficient offensive player and too short to guard most 4s while being far too slow to guard any 3's.

Despite a lot of talent around him, he still managed to put up an ugly APM and RAPM. His PER, TS%, and reb% are all below average for his position.

The only thing I can see that makes fans rate him so highly is the emotion he brings and in the NBA that's not always a good thing.

I am trying to figure out why so many people think he doesn't suck, and I would be interested in some evidence that shows he doens't suck.

Swashcuff
08-19-2010, 09:14 PM
Why is that?

Davis is an inefficient offensive player and too short to guard most 4s while being far too slow to guard any 3's.

Despite a lot of talent around him, he still managed to put up an ugly APM and RAPM. His PER, TS%, and reb% are all below average for his position.

The only thing I can see that makes fans rate him so highly is the emotion he brings and in the NBA that's not always a good thing.

I am trying to figure out why so many people think he doesn't suck, and I would be interested in some evidence that shows he doens't suck.

Take a step away from the computer and turn on the TV and actually LOOK at some Celtics games. Don't over-analyse his faults but take a good hard look at what he brings to their front court off the bench. He actually contributes when he gets the chance. Contributes in ways thats stats won't tell.

And OBVIOUSLY his PER, TS% and TRB% will be lower than a player for his position he is a BENCH player who gets sporadic playing time.

You must seriously have him mixed up with Shelden Williams.

He may not be the best player is the world but he surely does NOT suck.

ChiSox219
08-19-2010, 09:20 PM
Take a step away from the computer and turn on the TV and actually LOOK at some Celtics games. Don't over-analyse his faults but take a good hard look at what he brings to their front court off the bench. He actually contributes when he gets the chance. Contributes in ways thats stats won't tell.

And OBVIOUSLY his PER, TS% and TRB% will be lower than a player for his position he is a BENCH player who gets sporadic playing time.

You must seriously have him mixed up with Shelden Williams.

He may not be the best player is the world but he surely does NOT suck.

Please provide evidence.

RAPM usually reflects a players value even if what they do, doesn't necessarily show up in the stat sheet. (ie: man defense, help defense, boxing out, passing, setting picks, coming off picks, defending picks, 50-50 plays, etc.)

Also, PER, TS%, and REB% are not affected by minutes played (at least not the two latter stats). In fact, given Davis' low usage and minutes coupled with his high talent teammates, his TS% should be much higher

Swashcuff
08-19-2010, 09:29 PM
Please provide evidence.

RAPM usually reflects a players value even if what they do, doesn't necessarily show up in the stat sheet. (ie: man defense, help defense, boxing out, passing, setting picks, coming off picks, defending picks, 50-50 plays, etc.)

Also, PER, TS%, and REB% are not affected by minutes played (at least not the two latter stats). In fact, given Davis' low usage and minutes coupled with his high talent teammates, his TS% should be much higher

http://www.82games.com/0910/09BOS15.HTM

does that look like the stats of a 6 out of 5 to you?

And more so apparently you don't watch enough Celts games to see his worth to them. I believe you have an understanding of basketball and you must know what you see in the box score or on paper never tells the entire story.

Swashcuff
08-19-2010, 09:34 PM
Please provide evidence.

RAPM usually reflects a players value even if what they do, doesn't necessarily show up in the stat sheet. (ie: man defense, help defense, boxing out, passing, setting picks, coming off picks, defending picks, 50-50 plays, etc.)

Also, PER, TS%, and REB% are not affected by minutes played (at least not the two latter stats). In fact, given Davis' low usage and minutes coupled with his high talent teammates, his TS% should be much higher

ok so if a man gets in a game and plays sporadically gets no form of rhythm and basically does garbage work won't that inadvertently affect his percentages. Dude you really understand the breakdown of these stats you are quoting as relative to what actually happens in the NBA.

ChiSox219
08-19-2010, 09:44 PM
http://www.82games.com/0910/09BOS15.HTM

does that look like the stats of a 6 out of 5 to you?

And more so apparently you don't watch enough Celts games to see his worth to them. I believe you have an understanding of basketball and you must know what you see in the box score or on paper never tells the entire story.

Yes, that looks like 6 out of 5, but really I rated him a 4 if you go way back to my first post. Almost half of the attempts he took were jump shots and he missed more than 70% of those. Also outperformed by opposing PFs, SFs, and C's though his only significant minutes came at PF.


ok so if a man gets in a game and plays sporadically gets no form of rhythm and basically does garbage work won't that inadvertently affect his percentages. Dude you really understand the breakdown of these stats you are quoting as relative to what actually happens in the NBA.

Nonsense. If you cannot come off the bench ready to play, whether it's in a rec league or the NBA, go home.

When Davis is getting minutes during garbage time he is facing inferior competition and should perform better if he is a really a 2rated bench player.

Also, APM/RAPM is adjusted for opposition so that would adjust for minutes in garbage time, crunch time, or any other time.

Swashcuff
08-19-2010, 10:09 PM
Yes, that looks like 6 out of 5, but really I rated him a 4 if you go way back to my first post. Almost half of the attempts he took were jump shots and he missed more than 70% of those. Also outperformed by opposing PFs, SFs, and C's though his only significant minutes came at PF.

what sense does that even make? Sigh. A 4 is debatable, a 6??? You look at all the negative and take that he's a bad player but not even think to compare to other bench players who have similar roles on their respective teams. His relies waayyy too much on his jump shot YES but when he actually gets it going he's an actual threat.


Nonsense. If you cannot come off the bench ready to play, whether it's in a rec league or the NBA, go home.

When Davis is getting minutes during garbage time he is facing inferior competition and should perform better if he is a really a 2rated bench player.

Also, APM/RAPM is adjusted for opposition so that would adjust for minutes in garbage time, crunch time, or any other time.

I knew that would be your exact rebuttal. Sigh You do understand that their IS a difference between being ready to play and actually performing at a consistent high level.

Dude understand the basketball we watch and you'd fully understand the point. YES YOU ARE RIGHT if you cannot come off the bench ready to play go home. Damn right. But that is NOT the case. If you watch the man play you'd see that. If you pay attention to basketball you'd see that everyone's role is in every single game in which they play and the use of stats and statistical percentages will NEVER show you what watching and understanding what each sequence over the course of the season means. You don't appreciate the intangibles that players such as Glen Davis brings to his team. But hey describing a serviceable 9-10 bench player as "turrible"

ChiSox219
08-19-2010, 10:14 PM
what sense does that even make? Sigh. A 4 is debatable, a 6??? You look at all the negative and take that he's a bad player but not even think to compare to other bench players who have similar roles on their respective teams. His relies waayyy too much on his jump shot YES but when he actually gets it going he's an actual threat.



I knew that would be your exact rebuttal. Sigh You do understand that their IS a difference between being ready to play and actually performing at a consistent high level.

Dude understand the basketball we watch and you'd fully understand the point. YES YOU ARE RIGHT if you cannot come off the bench ready to play go home. Damn right. But that is NOT the case. If you watch the man play you'd see that. If you pay attention to basketball you'd see that everyone's role is in every single game in which they play and the use of stats and statistical percentages will NEVER show you what watching and understanding what each sequence over the course of the season means. You don't appreciate the intangibles that players such as Glen Davis brings to his team. But hey describing a serviceable 9-10 bench player as "turrible"


I get it, you don't think stats tell the whole story. I agree.

I have watched Davis play numerous times in the NBA, he is not good relative to what I consider an "average" NBA player, so jump off that. I study the game, watch the game, and play the game. When I'm not working, basketball is life.

There are hundreds (no hyperbole) of players I'd take before considering Davis.

Swashcuff
08-19-2010, 10:21 PM
I get it, you don't think stats tell the whole story. I agree.

I have watched Davis play numerous times in the NBA, he is not good relative to what I consider an "average" NBA player, so jump off that. I study the game, watch the game, and play the game. When I'm not working, basketball is life.

There are hundreds (no hyperbole) of players I'd take before considering Davis.

I was under the perception that you thought otherwise.

It's all based on our opinions and I must say though I don't 100% agree with it I respect yours.

:cheers:

Minimal
08-20-2010, 03:37 AM
Lamar Odom - 1
Udonis Haslem - 1
Glen Davis - 2
Kyle Korver - 2
Taj Gibson - 2
Mike Miller - 1
Steve Blake - 2
Shannon Brown - 4
Matt Barnes - 2
Jermain Oneal - 2
Nate Robinson - 3
Ryan Anderson - 3
Quentin Richardson - 3
JJ Redick - 2
Jason Williams - 3
Michael pietrus - 1
Eddie House - 1
James Jones - 4
Big Z - 3

Miami Heat - 10 points/5 players - Average 2.00
Los Angeles Lakers - 9 points/4 players - Average 2.25
Boston Celtics - 7 points/3 players - Average 2.33
Orladno Magic - 12 points/5 players - Average 2.4
Chicago Bulls - 4 points/2 players - Average 2.00

sargon21
08-22-2010, 12:49 AM
Note: The following players represent the Heat, Lakers, Bulls, Celtics and Magic.

Lamar Odom 1 Lakers: 4 players -- 9 points
Udonis Haslem 2 Heat: 5 players -- 18 points
Glen Davis 2 Bulls: 2 players -- 3 points
Kyle Korver 2 Celtics: 3 players -- 9 points
Taj Gibson 1 Magic: 4 players -- 13 points
Mike Miller 1
Steve Blake 3
Shannon Brown 3
Matt Barnes 2
Jermain Oneal 3
Nate Robinson 4
Ryan Anderson 3
Quentin Richardson 2
JJ Redick 2
Jason Williams 4
Michael pietrus 2
Eddie House 4
James Jones 5
Big Z 4

footballer2369
08-22-2010, 01:25 AM
Note: The following players represent the Heat, Lakers, Bulls, Celtics and Magic.

Lamar Odom 1 Lakers: 4 players -- 9 points
Udonis Haslem 2 Heat: 5 players -- 18 points
Glen Davis 2 Bulls: 2 players -- 3 points
Kyle Korver 2 Celtics: 3 players -- 9 points
Taj Gibson 1 Magic: 4 players -- 13 points
Mike Miller 1
Steve Blake 3
Shannon Brown 3
Matt Barnes 2
Jermain Oneal 3
Nate Robinson 4
Ryan Anderson 3
Quentin Richardson 2
JJ Redick 2
Jason Williams 4
Michael pietrus 2
Eddie House 4
James Jones 5
Big Z 4

Picking Taj over Haslem is indefensible...

Korver over House and at 2 is even more ridiculous...

Khalifa21
08-22-2010, 07:25 PM
Lamar Odom - 1
Udonis Haslem - 2
Glen Davis - 2
Kyle Korver - 2
Taj Gibson - 2
Mike Miller - 1
Steve Blake - 2
Shannon Brown - 3
Matt Barnes - 3
Jermain O'Neal - 2
Nate Robinson - 2
Ryan Anderson - 3
Quentin Richardson - 2
JJ Redick - 2
Jason Williams - 3
Michael Pietrus - 2
Eddie House - 3
James Jones - 4
Big Z - 2