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View Full Version : ESPN: Best Power Forward Signing in 2010-2011



JordansBulls
08-19-2010, 12:53 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=SummerForecast10-PowerForwards



1. Chris Bosh 33 votes
2. Carlos Boozer 27 votes
3. Dirk Nowitzki 22 votes
4. Amare Stoudemire 8 votes
5. David Lee 3 votes

Swashcuff
08-19-2010, 12:55 PM
Amare also ranked #1 as the worst!

D Roses Bulls
08-19-2010, 12:55 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=SummerForecast10-PowerForwards



1. Chris Bosh 33 votes
2. Carlos Boozer 27 votes
3. Dirk Nowitzki 22 votes
4. Amare Stoudemire 8 votes
5. David Lee 3 votes

if dirk was younger he would be number 1

Gators123
08-19-2010, 12:55 PM
Amare has 36 votes for the WORST PF signing. wow.

mikealike305
08-19-2010, 12:58 PM
sounds about right

OG "Dee" LOCc
08-19-2010, 01:02 PM
ESPN is also run by a redsox fan. who hires red sox fans...they hate NY

dhopisthename
08-19-2010, 01:02 PM
I agree with that list. boozer was a great price for 75 million as was bosh for 110. they seem to be a little rough on amare but I get the sentiment that he got the most money and is a huge injury concern

sofargone
08-19-2010, 01:12 PM
Amare as the worst? Really...

arkanian215
08-19-2010, 01:16 PM
Overall rankings?
Methodology:
For the best signings list the top ranked guy has his total votes multiplied by 5 (next guy 4 etc all the way down to 1). For the worst signings list the worst guy has his total votes multiplied by -5 (next guy -4 etc all the way up to -1). The sum is their overall ranking.

Bosh 151
Nowitzki 66
Boozer 60
Lee -133
Amare -164

2nd ranking system
Methodology:
Each vote for best signing counts as 1 and each vote for worst counts as -1.

Bosh 26
Nowitzki 22
Boozer 11
Amare -28
Lee -31

Steelers23_06
08-19-2010, 01:21 PM
if dirk was younger he would be number 1

lol your such a heat hater. how would dirk be better than bosh dirk hurts his team imo he doesnt have a set position. he plays like a small foward and isnt quick enough to guard a SF and is two weak to defend the PF. his shot is so crispy but he hurts his teams imo. but thats just my opinion so dont start bugging out. but i would rather have bosh, amare & boozer than dirk they can defend and know how to play their set position. a pf playing 37.5 mpg should avg more than only 7 boards.

sofargone
08-19-2010, 01:34 PM
lol your such a heat hater. how would dirk be better than bosh dirk hurts his team imo he doesnt have a set position. he plays like a small foward and isnt quick enough to guard a SF and is two weak to defend the PF. his shot is so crispy but he hurts his teams imo. but thats just my opinion so dont start bugging out. but i would rather have bosh, amare & boozer than dirk they can defend and know how to play their set position. a pf playing 37.5 mpg should avg more than only 7 boards.

:rolleyes: Dirk is a better PF than all of those guys you listed, MAYBE Bosh is better.

Hawkeye15
08-19-2010, 01:35 PM
lol your such a heat hater. how would dirk be better than bosh dirk hurts his team imo he doesnt have a set position. he plays like a small foward and isnt quick enough to guard a SF and is two weak to defend the PF. his shot is so crispy but he hurts his teams imo. but thats just my opinion so dont start bugging out. but i would rather have bosh, amare & boozer than dirk they can defend and know how to play their set position. a pf playing 37.5 mpg should avg more than only 7 boards.

Dirk does not hurt his team. He is currently the best PF in the game. Dirk's defense is also underrated. Amare and Boozer are below average defenders who do not score with the same efficiency as Dirk.

Baller1
08-19-2010, 01:36 PM
Dirk is not a winner in my eyes. So that negates him having any shot at being the best PF in the game. Just my opinion.

hockeypro68
08-19-2010, 01:36 PM
How is Al Jefferson not being mentioned?

Avenged
08-19-2010, 01:38 PM
Dirk just hasn't had the correct players around him.

He was so close to being a champion a couple years ago, but Wade just stole the show, there's nothing you can do when a player goes off like Wade did.

chicagocubsfan
08-19-2010, 01:40 PM
How is Al Jefferson not being mentioned? that was a trade

L@ker4Life
08-19-2010, 01:40 PM
I agree that Dirk was probably the best PF signing, but wont get the recognition because he didn't switch teams. Dirk is underrated defender, but is still not a very good defender.

Amare, boozer, and bosh are all subpar defenders. Dirk is the best scorer out of the bunch, but it all comes from the outside so it doesn't help his team as much as a tradiitonal PF who can post up does.

I would rank it

Dirk
Boozer
Amare
Bosh
Lee

Amare is ahead of bosh only because of what he will bring to NY. He will actually make them relevant again which is great for the sport. Bosh is another big who prefers not to bang down low and has a suspect back to the basket offensive game.

Hawkeye15
08-19-2010, 01:41 PM
Dirk is not a winner in my eyes. So that negates him having any shot at being the best PF in the game. Just my opinion.

How is he not a winner? Please explain

Fmaranesi
08-19-2010, 01:41 PM
How is Al Jefferson not being mentioned?

Because he was not a free agent

L@ker4Life
08-19-2010, 01:42 PM
Dirk is not a winner in my eyes. So that negates him having any shot at being the best PF in the game. Just my opinion.

WIth you basing your opinion on being the best invdividual player on winning I guess it would be safe to say that you think Pau Gasol is the best PF and Lebron James is not the best SF??

chicagocubsfan
08-19-2010, 01:42 PM
Dirk is the best offensive big in the league right now, the heat should have went after dirk instead if bosh if they wanted to win 4+ championships

Steelers23_06
08-19-2010, 01:44 PM
i agree with amare. but boozer has pretty good defense. dirk is weak i wouldnt want a weak power foward. hes on the perfect team though shawn marion is good for them because he knows how to pick up the slack on the boards and defensive end.

Baller1
08-19-2010, 01:45 PM
WIth you basing your opinion on being the best invdividual player on winning I guess it would be safe to say that you think Pau Gasol is the best PF and Lebron James is not the best SF??

I ****ing hate Pau, but yeah he's probably the best PF in the game.

Steelers23_06
08-19-2010, 01:45 PM
offense doesnt win ships thats why dirk and nash will never get a ring as the leader.

Da Knicks
08-19-2010, 01:46 PM
Motivation for Amare!

Hawkeye15
08-19-2010, 01:47 PM
I ****ing hate Pau, but yeah he's probably the best PF in the game.

Dirk is still better dude.

Da Knicks
08-19-2010, 01:48 PM
I ****ing hate Pau, but yeah he's probably the best PF in the game.

Hate that he plays for the lakers but he is hands down the best pf. Very underrated player, best player on the lakers for sure. Pau imo is top 3 best player in nba period...;)

MacFitz92
08-19-2010, 01:49 PM
Dirk is not a winner in my eyes. So that negates him having any shot at being the best PF in the game. Just my opinion.

Pure ignorance, Dirk's playoff numbers are significantly better than his regular season numbers. People like you who have no idea what they are talking about makes me laugh, you just go off what the media tells you. You fail to recognize how badly some of Dirk's teammates played this year and in previous years.

Just because he hasn't won a championship, doesn't mean he isn't the best PF in the league, because in reality, the best PG, SF, and C all haven't won a championship either.

MacFitz92
08-19-2010, 01:50 PM
Hate that he plays for the lakers but he is hands down the best pf. Very underrated player, best player on the lakers for sure. Pau imo is top 3 best player in nba period...;)

I hope you're joking.

DoJoTheSlasher
08-19-2010, 01:51 PM
lol your such a heat hater. how would dirk be better than bosh dirk hurts his team imo he doesnt have a set position. he plays like a small foward and isnt quick enough to guard a SF and is two weak to defend the PF. his shot is so crispy but he hurts his teams imo. but thats just my opinion so dont start bugging out. but i would rather have bosh, amare & boozer than dirk they can defend and know how to play their set position. a pf playing 37.5 mpg should avg more than only 7 boards.

Dirk's MVP, 9 all stars, 10 all nba team selections, 100+ playoff games, 10 straight years of leasing his team to over 50 wins speak highly of him.

Bosh's 6 career playoff games speak highly of him.

Dirk > Bosh and it isn't even close AT ALL. Gasol and Duncan are better as well.

Avenged
08-19-2010, 01:51 PM
offense doesnt win ships thats why dirk and nash will never get a ring as the leader.

Not really, as long as the players around them play defense, they should be good to go to win a ring.

If Nash was a Laker/Celtic, he would probably have a couple of rings by now.

Same can be said for Dirk.

Eagles4Lyfe
08-19-2010, 01:52 PM
hate to say it but bosh has to be hes the 3rd wheel now and if he does what he did as a raptor then theres no arguing

GMEN4EVER
08-19-2010, 01:52 PM
Dirk is a gifted scorer, and nothing else. Sub par rebounder, doesn't block nearly as many shots as someone his height should. He's weak on the defensive end, being at a major disadvantage against strong PF's as well as fast PF's, which means roughly 75 percent of them. He's a bit over rated as a super star. Is he a good player? Absolutely, but I wouldn't consider him the type of player you build a team around, he's better suited as a secondary star.

dwadefan03
08-19-2010, 01:53 PM
i think if dirk was younger he would have been number 1

GMEN4EVER
08-19-2010, 01:54 PM
And I mean all of that as an at this point in his career rant. He used to be an elite player, but he's just not quite on the same level anymore.

dwadefan03
08-19-2010, 01:54 PM
I agree that Dirk was probably the best PF signing, but wont get the recognition because he didn't switch teams. Dirk is underrated defender, but is still not a very good defender.

Amare, boozer, and bosh are all subpar defenders. Dirk is the best scorer out of the bunch, but it all comes from the outside so it doesn't help his team as much as a tradiitonal PF who can post up does.

I would rank it

Dirk
Boozer
Amare
Bosh
Lee

Amare is ahead of bosh only because of what he will bring to NY. He will actually make them relevant again which is great for the sport. Bosh is another big who prefers not to bang down low and has a suspect back to the basket offensive game.

seriously?

Da Knicks
08-19-2010, 01:56 PM
I hope you're joking.

why would i be joking?

DoJoTheSlasher
08-19-2010, 01:58 PM
For anyone saying Dirk is a weak rebounder please check his reb stats


Reg. Season

9.2
9.9
9.9
8.7
9.7
9.0
8.9
8.6
8.4
7.7

Playoffs

8.1
13.1
11.5
11.8
10.1
11.7
11.3
12.0
10.1
8.2

And how can you call Gasol a winner and Dirk not. Gasol has 2 rings after coming to the Lakers who had best player in the game Kobe, Lamar Odom, Andrew Bynum, Derek Fisher and added Ron Artest. What did Gasol do down in Memphis?

Dirk has led his team as a top team for 10 years, often not getting help from his other teammates through the playoffs.

Avenged
08-19-2010, 01:58 PM
why would i be joking?

Because Pau isn't a top 3 best player in the NBA.

Da Knicks
08-19-2010, 02:10 PM
Because Pau isn't a top 3 best player in the NBA.

Got the lakers out of the first round and put them on his back in game seven. Very underrated players i would take a low post big over all the overhyped wings any day. Size matters and you just showed how underrated Pau is since not even laker fans realize what they have.:facepalm:

KnicksGuard
08-19-2010, 02:12 PM
Amare Signing is under-rated. The Knicks got themselves a baller yall.

Avenged
08-19-2010, 02:12 PM
Got the lakers out of the first round and put them on his back in game seven. Very underrated players i would take a low post big over all the overhyped wings any day. Size matters and you just showed how underrated Pau is since not even laker fans realize what they have.:facepalm:

:sigh:

You're actually serious.

RedSoxFan2434
08-19-2010, 02:15 PM
Dirk bcse Dallas needed him back. Biggest addition obv Bosh.

scutch11
08-19-2010, 02:15 PM
thats a little low for amare. i guess they did it by their contracts more than anything else

Minimal
08-19-2010, 02:16 PM
Hmm for me that would be:
1. Chris Bosh (14 millions for one of the best power forward in the League)
2. Dirk Nowitzki (Great player, big money)
3. Carlos Boozer (Fairly good for 16 millions)
4. David Lee (13.5 millions for a great power forward)
5. Amare Stoudamire (20 millions? :O )

DoJoTheSlasher
08-19-2010, 02:58 PM
Bosh and Amare both got seriously overpaid.

Minimal
08-19-2010, 03:02 PM
Bosh and Amare both got seriously overpaid.
:facepalm: x1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 ...312 more page..............0000000000000.

DoJoTheSlasher
08-19-2010, 03:04 PM
:facepalm: x1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 ...312 more page..............0000000000000.

Cmon the guy is a great player but he is not worth the money A. as a player and B. as a 3rd option as well. The guy is simply not a winner at all. He is overrated and you thought the same thing (i bet) before Miami signed him.

mikealike305
08-19-2010, 03:07 PM
Cmon the guy is a great player but he is not worth the money A. as a player and B. as a 3rd option as well. The guy is simply not a winner at all. He is overrated and you thought the same thing (i bet) before Miami signed him.

i agree.....................









with the facepalm u got....

Wade>You
08-19-2010, 03:09 PM
I think Bosh is the best PF. Let's put it this way: if you don't think highly of Bosh, being the only PF to avg 24/11 last season, what does that say about the rest of the PFs in the NBA? And he's only 25yrs old :speechless:!

Other great PFs that rival Bosh: Gasol, Dirk, Amare, Boozer, Duncan (TD was better in his prime obv).

mikealike305
08-19-2010, 03:09 PM
Bosh and Amare both got seriously overpaid.

u do realize we got bosh arguably (not that i said aruably) the best PF in the game today for a discount right? i'll pretend u are hearing this for the first time

mikealike305
08-19-2010, 03:11 PM
I think Bosh is the best PF. Let's put it this way: if you don't think highly of Bosh, being the only PF to avg 24/11 last season, what does that say about the rest of the PFs in the NBA? And he's only 25yrs old :speechless:!

25 or 27? im pretty sure bosh and wade are 27 and james in 25

Wade>You
08-19-2010, 03:13 PM
25 or 27? im pretty sure bosh and wade are 27 and james in 25Ah 26, actually. Our bad lol. James is 25. Wade is 28.

Bosh turned 26 in March 24, 2010.

DoJoTheSlasher
08-19-2010, 03:15 PM
I think Bosh is the best PF. Let's put it this way: if you don't think highly of Bosh, being the only PF to avg 24/11 last season, what does that say about the rest of the PFs in the NBA? And he's only 25yrs old :speechless:!

Other great PFs that rival Bosh: Gasol, Dirk, Amare, Boozer, Duncan (TD was better in his prime obv).



If numbers is all that matters here then why isn't Monta Ellis being compared to Kobe? 25 points a game must make him up there.

Dirk, Gasol and Duncan are all better than Bosh.

If Bosh played on the Raptors or Bulls, all you Heat fans wouldn't be all over his nuts right now. Bosh best PF in the game? I guess I will counter that by saying Jamal Crawford is the best SG in the game.

mikealike305
08-19-2010, 03:17 PM
Ah 26, actually. Our bad lol. James is 25. Wade is 28.

Bosh turned 26 in March 24, 2010.

lol either way i get your point.... bosh is still young lol

PlezPlayDKnicks
08-19-2010, 03:18 PM
Dirk's MVP, 9 all stars, 10 all nba team selections, 100+ playoff games, 10 straight years of leasing his team to over 50 wins speak highly of him.

Bosh's 6 career playoff games speak highly of him.

Dirk > Bosh and it isn't even close AT ALL. Gasol and Duncan are better as well.

This.. I was at the game where the Knicks got blown out by Dallas by 42. Dirk's game is so unstoppable when his step back is connecting. The Amare hate from espn is understandable . Every1 on that list has had dominate playoff performances except Bosh. Bosh is a great player but I fail he's ranked so far ahead of Amare. I've never seen him totally dominate other star pf's.

97NYer
08-19-2010, 03:20 PM
lol your such a heat hater. how would dirk be better than bosh dirk hurts his team imo he doesnt have a set position. he plays like a small foward and isnt quick enough to guard a SF and is two weak to defend the PF. his shot is so crispy but he hurts his teams imo. but thats just my opinion so dont start bugging out. but i would rather have bosh, amare & boozer than dirk they can defend and know how to play their set position. a pf playing 37.5 mpg should avg more than only 7 boards.

Dirk hurts his team:facepalm:

BOSTON617
08-19-2010, 03:21 PM
ESPN is also run by a redsox fan. who hires red sox fans...they hate NY

we hate the yankees we dont igve a **** about the knicks lol

97NYer
08-19-2010, 03:21 PM
This list sucks 37 nuts.

DoJoTheSlasher
08-19-2010, 03:22 PM
^^ I hate Amare and think he is incredibly overrated but yes, even he has had alot of dominant playoff games. Bosh is on Boozer and Amare's level. The type of PF that has to be with another great player (Nash, Wiliams, now Wade and Lebron) to suceed. Dirk, Duncan and Gasol are the top 3 PF in the game, all of which will be HOF, Duncan obviously being the greatest PF of all time, Dirk being top 10 (possibly top 5 after his career), and Gasol winning more rings and putting up the all star play with LA.

BOSTON617
08-19-2010, 03:23 PM
:facepalm: x1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 ...312 more page..............0000000000000.

bro hes right??

PlezPlayDKnicks
08-19-2010, 03:25 PM
Truth be told the heat would've been a lot scarier with Wade, bron, amare... Three of the most physically dominant players at their position... Amare's midrange is just as solid as bosh. The injury concerns and youth is the only thing that makes Bosh the better investment.

Heater4life
08-19-2010, 03:26 PM
Cmon the guy is a great player but he is not worth the money A. as a player and B. as a 3rd option as well. The guy is simply not a winner at all. He is overrated and you thought the same thing (i bet) before Miami signed him.

your talking about a top3 pf avg. 20 and 10, getting paid 15M next season. thats overpaid??? maybe you should look at your dallas mavericks who are paying 12M for a 6 and 6 Tyson Chandler (formerly 6 and 7 erick dampier).

A player who is averaging 20 and 10 and is top 3 in the league attheir position, making less than the max is NOT overpaid buddy, im sorry.

Hawkeye15
08-19-2010, 03:27 PM
Truth be told the heat would've been a lot scarier with Wade, bron, amare... Three of the most physically dominant players at their position... Amare's midrange is just as solid as bosh. The injury concerns and youth is the only thing that makes Bosh the better investment.

Bosh is a better defender as well. But they would have been virtually interchangeable. However, with Amare's knee surgery years ago, and his eye, I would take a younger Bosh to play alongside LeBron and Wade. I think it gives a longer window personally

DoJoTheSlasher
08-19-2010, 03:28 PM
1st Tier

1. Dirk
2. Gasol
3. Duncan

2nd Tier

4. Bosh
5. Boozer
6. Jefferson
7. Amare
8. Garnett

3rd Tier

9. West
10. Aldridge
11. Green
12. Griffin (eventually)

mikealike305
08-19-2010, 03:29 PM
If numbers is all that matters here then why isn't Monta Ellis being compared to Kobe? 25 points a game must make him up there.

Dirk, Gasol and Duncan are all better than Bosh.

If Bosh played on the Raptors or Bulls, all you Heat fans wouldn't be all over his nuts right now. Bosh best PF in the game? I guess I will counter that by saying Jamal Crawford is the best SG in the game.

u do realize that the 3 guys u named are not better than bosh TODAY right? and u do realize that the 3 guys u named are all atleast 5 years older right?

Wade>You
08-19-2010, 03:30 PM
If numbers is all that matters here then why isn't Monta Ellis being compared to Kobe? 25 points a game must make him up there.

Dirk, Gasol and Duncan are all better than Bosh.

If Bosh played on the Raptors or Bulls, all you Heat fans wouldn't be all over his nuts right now. Bosh best PF in the game? I guess I will counter that by saying Jamal Crawford is the best SG in the game.To be honest, it's a whole other discussion regarding Monta and Kobe. I'll just leave it at Kobe plays at a higher efficiency than Monta Ellis. Not to mention Kobe has 187 more playoff games under his belt than Monta. That counts for a lot. Until Monta can afford the chance to play on a good team to prove he's in the conversation for being a superstar, let's leave it at that.

As far as Bosh playing on another team, I've always thought highly of him on the Raptors, it's just that he's not in the spotlight like Duncan, Amare, and now Gasol so he doesn't get the hype. It's the same thing with Gasol before he went to LA to play alongside Kobe.

DoJoTheSlasher
08-19-2010, 03:31 PM
your talking about a top3 pf avg. 20 and 10, getting paid 15M next season. thats overpaid??? maybe you should look at your dallas mavericks who are paying 12M for a 6 and 6 Tyson Chandler (formerly 6 and 7 erick dampier).

A player who is averaging 20 and 10 and is top 3 in the league attheir position, making less than the max is NOT overpaid buddy, im sorry.

1. Bosh is not top 3, he is 4th or 5th best PF

2. 12M is overpaying for Chandler yes but we acquired him through a trade dumping Dampier who is FAARRR worse.

3. 6 and 6 Chandler with Charlotte who had a PG who was score first. Now with Kidd he will be much better.

PlezPlayDKnicks
08-19-2010, 03:32 PM
^^ I hate Amare and think he is incredibly overrated but yes, even he has had alot of dominant playoff games. Bosh is on Boozer and Amare's level. The type of PF that has to be with another great player (Nash, Wiliams, now Wade and Lebron) to suceed. Dirk, Duncan and Gasol are the top 3 PF in the game, all of which will be HOF, Duncan obviously being the greatest PF of all time, Dirk being top 10 (possibly top 5 after his career), and Gasol winning more rings and putting up the all star play with LA.

Pau never won a single playoff game until he went to LA. Some1 so dominant surely could have willed his team to one playoff win. Pau is no different than Bosh, boozer, Amare as far as needing another superstar player to succeed. I agree with everything else besides the Pau comment. I don't think he carries the raptors or Knicks anywhere but is perfect for teams like Orl,Chi,Okc, and most of all Lal

Heater4life
08-19-2010, 03:34 PM
Truth be told the heat would've been a lot scarier with Wade, bron, amare... Three of the most physically dominant players at their position... Amare's midrange is just as solid as bosh. The injury concerns and youth is the only thing that makes Bosh the better investment.

No chance. Amare plays the pick and roll better slipping to the basket. He also finishes alot stronger at the rim (heat didnt need a third guy who can take it to the rim). They both have very quick first steps. Shot wise, Bosh has the more complete arsenal, he has the step back jumper, post fade away, more range.

I personally think Bosh is the better option because he has the better shot. Pick and roll wise with Lebron and Wade, Bosh can make defenses pay with his shot. Amare's is more streaky, imo. Bosh fits better.

Hawkeye15
08-19-2010, 03:34 PM
u do realize that the 3 guys u named are not better than bosh TODAY right? and u do realize that the 3 guys u named are all atleast 5 years older right?

Dirk, Duncan, and Gasol are all better than Bosh, today. That was a correct statement

DoJoTheSlasher
08-19-2010, 03:37 PM
u do realize that the 3 guys u named are not better than bosh TODAY right? and u do realize that the 3 guys u named are all atleast 5 years older right?

Today Dirk is the best PF in the game, Today Gasol has 2 rings and is truly the best 2nd guy on a team in the game, Today Duncan is still one of the best fundamental guys with alot of talent left.

What does age have to do with it at all?

Until Bosh shows that he can lead a team through the playoffs, noooo.

Averaging 18 and 10 on a team with LeBron and Wade and getting 60 wins will not be something to brag about for Bosh this year.

Dirk has a good team, but he makes them GREAT. Lakers will always be great with Kobe, but Gasol puts them over the top. Spurs are nothing without Duncan. Put Bosh in for those guys on their teams and each team takes a step (or two) back. People want flashy and I'll take pure understandment of the game and IQ ahead of flashy anyday of the week.

Hawkeye15
08-19-2010, 03:37 PM
No chance. Amare plays the pick and roll better slipping to the basket. He also finishes alot stronger at the rim (heat didnt need a third guy who can take it to the rim). They both have very quick first steps. Shot wise, Bosh has the more complete arsenal, he has the step back jumper, post fade away, more range.

I personally think Bosh is the better option because he has the better shot. Pick and roll wise with Lebron and Wade, Bosh can make defenses pay with his shot. Amare's is more streaky, imo. Bosh fits better.

51% of Amare's shots come from outside, and he hits 45.2% of them. 61% of those were assisted

54% of Bosh's attempts come from outside, hitting 44.4% of them. 54% of those were assisted.

So yes, they are both good midrange shooters. Nearly identical actually.

DoJoTheSlasher
08-19-2010, 03:39 PM
Pau never won a single playoff game until he went to LA. Some1 so dominant surely could have willed his team to one playoff win. Pau is no different than Bosh, boozer, Amare as far as needing another superstar player to succeed. I agree with everything else besides the Pau comment. I don't think he carries the raptors or Knicks anywhere but is perfect for teams like Orl,Chi,Okc, and most of all Lal

Pau carried them in Game 7, but overall he cannot carry a team. He was a great player on a bad team, which he couldn't carry to a playoff win, who was a great addition to LA to make them even better contenders. And yeah, Gasol does need a superstar to win, I agree.

Heater4life
08-19-2010, 03:40 PM
1. Bosh is not top 3, he is 4th or 5th best PF
2. 12M is overpaying for Chandler yes but we acquired him through a trade dumping Dampier who is FAARRR worse.

3. 6 and 6 Chandler with Charlotte who had a PG who was score first. Now with Kidd he will be much better.


KG- 16M
Dirk- 17M
Gasol- 16M
Amare- 16M
Bosh- 15.7M

Even if he isnt top 3 in your opinion, whats your basis for being overpaid? hes top 5 in your opinion and making top 5 money (less than actually). :eyebrow:

DoJoTheSlasher
08-19-2010, 03:44 PM
KG- 16M
Dirk- 17M
Gasol- 16M
Amare- 16M
Bosh- 15.7M

Even if he isnt top 3 in your opinion, whats your basis for being overpaid? hes top 5 in your opinion and making top 5 money (less than actually). :eyebrow:

KG wins games but yes he is overpaid
Dirk is underpaid in his new contract but he wanted that
Gasol is paid just fine, a second star on a team that puts you over the top
Amare and Bosh are both waaay overpaid and it is not just them. 90 percent of players this offseason got overpaid.

PlezPlayDKnicks
08-19-2010, 03:47 PM
51% of Amare's shots come from outside, and he hits 45.2% of them. 61% of those were assisted

54% of Bosh's attempts come from outside, hitting 44.4% of them. 54% of those were assisted.

So yes, they are both good midrange shooters. Nearly identical actually.

Thanks for providing the numerical facts.. Too lazy to look them up. Amare, Bosh, Jefferson, Lee all play little to no defense. So to the poster who says Bosh is the better defender it's not even worth mentioning. They all suck at it.

Minimal
08-19-2010, 03:48 PM
I guess noone gets the point of this thread.
Who would I take if I had LeBron and Wade on my team?
1. Amare Stoudamire for 20 millions, who will turn 28 this year, who's defence isn't that bad and who can get an injury any time and sit the whole season, the guy whose playing depends on a point guard mostly?
2. Carlos Boozer for 16 millions, who will turn 30 this year, who's defence isn't that great and who can get an injury any time and sit the whole season, the guy whose playing depends on a point guard mostly?
3. David Lee for 13,5 millions, who is 27 and one of the worst power forward defenders in the league?
4. Dirk Nowitzki for 20 millions, who is 32 and will soon go down, who isn't that great of a defender and ain't a good rebounder Miami needs?
Or should I take...
5. Chris Bosh for 14 millions, who just hit 26 and entered his prime, who is good friend with LeBron and Wade, and is top 3 power forward in the league, a guy who played without dominant PG like Nash, Deron, Kidd and still could put 24 points and still grab 11 rebounds, a guy who was nominated for All-Star MVP with Wade and LeBron last year?

I would definetely take Bosh.

TheTakeOver24
08-19-2010, 03:55 PM
every thread on the NBA forum ends with the bashing of a Heat player... anyone else find that kinda funny?

DoJoTheSlasher
08-19-2010, 03:57 PM
every thread on the NBA forum ends with the bashing of a Heat player... anyone else find that kinda funny?

Maybe it is because all of a sudden, LeBron and Bosh (who you guys hated before most likely) are all of a sudden top at their positions in your opinions. And now all of a sudden Wade > Kobe no contest?

Let the team actually do something before you talk.

mikealike305
08-19-2010, 04:02 PM
Today Dirk is the best PF in the game, Today Gasol has 2 rings and is truly the best 2nd guy on a team in the game, Today Duncan is still one of the best fundamental guys with alot of talent left.

What does age have to do with it at all?

Until Bosh shows that he can lead a team through the playoffs, noooo.

Averaging 18 and 10 on a team with LeBron and Wade and getting 60 wins will not be something to brag about for Bosh this year.

Dirk has a good team, but he makes them GREAT. Lakers will always be great with Kobe, but Gasol puts them over the top. Spurs are nothing without Duncan. Put Bosh in for those guys on their teams and each team takes a step (or two) back. People want flashy and I'll take pure understandment of the game and IQ ahead of flashy anyday of the week.

dont argue that since gasol has more rings means hes better please..
bosh wont have to lead a team... and did gasol lead his team or did kobe?
ok maybe dirk is better than bosh right now but i wouldnt take tim over bosh (because of age) i would take bosh over any of those 3

TheTakeOver24
08-19-2010, 04:05 PM
Maybe it is because all of a sudden, LeBron and Bosh (who you guys hated before most likely) are all of a sudden top at their positions in your opinions. And now all of a sudden Wade > Kobe no contest?

Let the team actually do something before you talk.

I haven't a posted a word on this thread before that, but honestly its other way around... before signing with the Heat, Bosh was regarded as a top 3 PF and LeBron was in the conversation with Kobe for being one of the best in the league. It doesnt matter if Heat fans hated them or not,the problem is that now saying Bosh is a great power forward is regarded as a laughable comment.

mikealike305
08-19-2010, 04:07 PM
KG wins games but yes he is overpaid
Dirk is underpaid in his new contract but he wanted that
Gasol is paid just fine, a second star on a team that puts you over the top
Amare and Bosh are both waaay overpaid and it is not just them. 90 percent of players this offseason got overpaid.

i dont see your argument on how bosh is overpaid? he took a paycut... so if he didnt take the paycut he would be super overpaid? overpaid is what amare and JJ got... not Bosh

PlezPlayDKnicks
08-19-2010, 04:10 PM
@ minimal..

Funny how u listed all negatives about all the other power forwards and listed none for Bosh. Bosh was assisted as much or more than Amare. But lookin at ur join date leads me 2 believe that any1 who joined the heat woulda been the number 1 pf for the heat.. Bandwagon homer much?

Bosh is the best longterm because of youth and friendship with the other 2.. He has durability issues as well homie

Hawkeye15
08-19-2010, 04:12 PM
Thanks for providing the numerical facts.. Too lazy to look them up. Amare, Bosh, Jefferson, Lee all play little to no defense. So to the poster who says Bosh is the better defender it's not even worth mentioning. They all suck at it.

Bosh is a better defender. He holds oppossing PF's to a PER of 12.3
Amare holds them to 18.8
Lee- 21.4
Jefferson- 23.1

this is from last year, but Bosh is clearly the best defender of the 4. As far as defensive rebounding, its, Lee, Jefferson, Bosh, Stoudemire, in that order

Bosh is by no means KG or Duncan on the defensive end, but as long as you don't ask any of these players to guard centers, Bosh outshines them on that end

xbrackattackx
08-19-2010, 04:18 PM
Dirk is not a winner in my eyes. So that negates him having any shot at being the best PF in the game. Just my opinion.

Well Bosh and Amare are not winners either, So are they not in that list?

DoJoTheSlasher
08-19-2010, 04:20 PM
i dont see your argument on how bosh is overpaid? he took a paycut... so if he didnt take the paycut he would be super overpaid? overpaid is what amare and JJ got... not Bosh

Let me put it this way. Bosh is not worth the max contract or a little less than the Max.

Kobe
LeBron
Wade
Dirk
Durant
Paul
Williams


these are the players who deserve the MAX or more than the MAX.

Hawkeye15
08-19-2010, 04:22 PM
Let me put it this way. Bosh is not worth the max contract or a little less than the Max.

Kobe
LeBron
Wade
Dirk
Durant
Paul
Williams


these are the players who deserve the MAX or more than the MAX.

we all get your point, but there are much worse deals out there

mjt20mik
08-19-2010, 04:23 PM
i agree with amare. but boozer has pretty good defense. dirk is weak i wouldnt want a weak power foward. hes on the perfect team though shawn marion is good for them because he knows how to pick up the slack on the boards and defensive end.

I laughed when I read this. Dirk has averaged 22 and 9 over his career, and he had a pretty rough start when he joined the NBA. His defense is so underrated. If you think Dirk is weak, I can't wait till you guys actually see Bosh on defense against other legit bigs.

mjt20mik
08-19-2010, 04:27 PM
i dont see your argument on how bosh is overpaid? he took a paycut... so if he didnt take the paycut he would be super overpaid? overpaid is what amare and JJ got... not Bosh

He took a little paycut. But he still is making pretty close to max. I've seen him play for the better end of 7 years, and by no means is he a max contract type of player. Sure he put up amazing numbers in Toronto, on a subpar team, but on a very good team like Miami, he is more of a role player than a star. I just think paying that much for a role player, is a little absurd. But I guess getting Bosh by any means, is what lured James, so it was a good investment.

godolphins
08-19-2010, 04:31 PM
ESPN is also run by a redsox fan. who hires red sox fans...they hate NY

:facepalm: Knicks fan's try to find excuses for everything
ESPN loves New York you ****

PlezPlayDKnicks
08-19-2010, 04:46 PM
Bosh is a better defender. He holds oppossing PF's to a PER of 12.3
Amare holds them to 18.8
Lee- 21.4
Jefferson- 23.1

this is from last year, but Bosh is clearly the best defender of the 4. As far as defensive rebounding, its, Lee, Jefferson, Bosh, Stoudemire, in that order

Bosh is by no means KG or Duncan on the defensive end, but as long as you don't ask any of these players to guard centers, Bosh outshines them on that end

Amare is bad.. But so was the whole phx team. No emphasis on that side of the ball. So wit the pace they run along with the team not focusing on that side of the ball it's not a surprise .. I'm not sold on that stat only because the west is far tougher than the east at power forward and has to face them 4 times as opposed to Bosh's twice per season .. The east has no power forward fire power compared to out west which def helps bosh. Put him out west and his defensive numbers spike easily .. I see them as equal in that department... Rebounding hands down is Bosh..

PlezPlayDKnicks
08-19-2010, 04:48 PM
:facepalm: Knicks fan's try to find excuses for everything
ESPN loves New York you ****

Can u support that with facts mr facepalm.. The above quote can't be proven just as much as ur statement

Minimal
08-19-2010, 04:57 PM
@ minimal..

Funny how u listed all negatives about all the other power forwards and listed none for Bosh. Bosh was assisted as much or more than Amare. But lookin at ur join date leads me 2 believe that any1 who joined the heat woulda been the number 1 pf for the heat.. Bandwagon homer much?

Bosh is the best longterm because of youth and friendship with the other 2.. He has durability issues as well homie
Am I bandwagon? No. I am Miami Heat fan since last year, maybe not so long, but still... If I joined the forum July 2010 means im bandwagon fan?
I was excited about new Miami Heat and I found this forum, you have problems with that?
If you want I can point negatives of Bosh...he is average at defence, that's all.
Before Miami signed Bosh and wished they sign him as I think he was the best fit to create a dynasty.

PlezPlayDKnicks
08-19-2010, 05:09 PM
Am I bandwagon? No. I am Miami Heat fan since last year, maybe not so long, but still... If I joined the forum July 2010 means im bandwagon fan?
I was excited about new Miami Heat and I found this forum, you have problems with that?
If you want I can point negatives of Bosh...he is average at defence, that's all.
Before Miami signed Bosh and wished they sign him as I think he was the best fit to create a dynasty.

So u weren't excited about the team last year enough to join up. But as soon as the big 3 formed bam u and multiple other fans popped up. It's a lil fishy bro.. U maybe a real heat fan. Who were u a fan of b4 last year? And Bosh has not proven to be mentally tough enough to carry a squad and has injury concerns as well.. Bosh is on the same tier as Amare and The other pf in my opinion.. It's his youth that sets him apart. Sad thing is it will never be proven because now he's a third option on a great ball club.

Hawkeye15
08-19-2010, 05:10 PM
No need to question fans loyalty. I was on this site roaming for 10 months before I joined...

PlezPlayDKnicks
08-19-2010, 05:34 PM
As I .... July 2010 has to be a record for join dates in psd and heat fans... It didn't take an amazing off season for a lot of us to join.. It's not an all out attack on minimal at all. It's just a fact that a lot of bandwagoners have jumped all over this site.. I've seen dudes with a join date last month with over 1,000 posts.. Half of em involved U Mad???

Wade>You
08-19-2010, 05:54 PM
As I .... July 2010 has to be a record for join dates in psd and heat fans... It didn't take an amazing off season for a lot of us to join.. It's not an all out attack on minimal at all. It's just a fact that a lot of bandwagoners have jumped all over this site.. I've seen dudes with a join date last month with over 1,000 posts.. Half of em involved U Mad???What about the bandwagon haters? All of a sudden it's in fashion to hate the Heat. For every bandwagon Heat fan, there's 3 bandwagon Heat haters.

It works both ways, dude.

_KB24_
08-19-2010, 05:59 PM
I'd say Boozer is the most significant because his impact is going to be the biggest felt by any signing amongst PFs.

dhopisthename
08-19-2010, 06:00 PM
I think the point of the report was would you rather pay

A. Bosh for 6 years at an average of 18.3 millions with is final age of 32
B. Nowitzki for 4 years of an average of 20 million with a final age of 36
C. Boozer for 5 years at 15 million a year with a final age of 34
d. Stoudemire for 5 years at 20 million with a final age of 32
e. Lee for 6 years at 16 million with a final age of 33

To me they got it right. Nowitzki is better then Bosh but for how long? I don't think at 36 Nowitzki will be better then bosh will be at 30. Then stoudemire is really scary with all of the injury concerns he has had. Boozer at 15 million is a touch high for me I would prefer 12 million for him because although he tries to play defense he gets dominated by people with size or quickness to get around him. Lee I think should have won the worst categorie.

Also say what you want about Bosh being overpayed. If he doesn't come to miami Wade doesn't and then lebron don't. So even if he was over payed(I don't think so for a 26 year old coming off a 24/10) He is part of the reason we got Wade and lebron

Da Knicks
08-19-2010, 06:03 PM
I guess noone gets the point of this thread.
Who would I take if I had LeBron and Wade on my team?
1. Amare Stoudamire for 20 millions, who will turn 28 this year, who's defence isn't that bad and who can get an injury any time and sit the whole season, the guy whose playing depends on a point guard mostly?
2. Carlos Boozer for 16 millions, who will turn 30 this year, who's defence isn't that great and who can get an injury any time and sit the whole season, the guy whose playing depends on a point guard mostly?
3. David Lee for 13,5 millions, who is 27 and one of the worst power forward defenders in the league?
4. Dirk Nowitzki for 20 millions, who is 32 and will soon go down, who isn't that great of a defender and ain't a good rebounder Miami needs?
Or should I take...
5. Chris Bosh for 14 millions, who just hit 26 and entered his prime, who is good friend with LeBron and Wade, and is top 3 power forward in the league, a guy who played without dominant PG like Nash, Deron, Kidd and still could put 24 points and still grab 11 rebounds, a guy who was nominated for All-Star MVP with Wade and LeBron last year?

I would definetely take Bosh.

First off thanks for joining in July and thanks for being a homer....

PlezPlayDKnicks
08-19-2010, 06:13 PM
What about the bandwagon haters? All of a sudden it's in fashion to hate the Heat. For every bandwagon Heat fan, there's 3 bandwagon Heat haters.

It works both ways, dude.

Even the real Heat Fans hate the bandwagoners 9 outta 10 times. The Heat will be a great team so the Heat will be hated in general. That is understandable. All great teams will be hated on. U should see that as a compliment. Its the obnoxious so called fans whose never experienced real pain with their team. How did you feel when Houston Hit the Shot. Or when Dwade went down for a majority of the season. They dont feel that pain and agony of riding wit their team. Its that same pain that makes offseasons like this legendary for real heat fans. The bandwagoners never feel that disappointment because they move on and never really had an attachment in the first place.

PlezPlayDKnicks
08-19-2010, 06:17 PM
I think the point of the report was would you rather pay

A. Bosh for 6 years at an average of 18.3 millions with is final age of 32
B. Nowitzki for 4 years of an average of 20 million with a final age of 36
C. Boozer for 5 years at 15 million a year with a final age of 34
d. Stoudemire for 5 years at 20 million with a final age of 32
e. Lee for 6 years at 16 million with a final age of 33

To me they got it right. Nowitzki is better then Bosh but for how long? I don't think at 36 Nowitzki will be better then bosh will be at 30. Then stoudemire is really scary with all of the injury concerns he has had. Boozer at 15 million is a touch high for me I would prefer 12 million for him because although he tries to play defense he gets dominated by people with size or quickness to get around him. Lee I think should have won the worst categorie.

Also say what you want about Bosh being overpayed. If he doesn't come to miami Wade doesn't and then lebron don't. So even if he was over payed(I don't think so for a 26 year old coming off a 24/10) He is part of the reason we got Wade and lebron

Guarantee if Bosh wasnt a lock which every1 knew he was to either Wade or Lebron if Amare or Boozer woulda followed Wade to the Heat, Lebron would have still went to Miami.

zambo4president
08-19-2010, 06:18 PM
Booz>Bosh by far

Knicks21
08-19-2010, 06:30 PM
I agree with that list. boozer was a great price for 75 million as was bosh for 110. they seem to be a little rough on amare but I get the sentiment that he got the most money and is a huge injury concern

Booer has had the same amount if not more injuries than amare.

djeller1139
08-19-2010, 06:32 PM
Maybe I'm a homer - and I'm sure that's part of it - but I really don't see David Lee being a bad signing. He's getting paid the least out of all of those guys, he produces similar to most of them (granted, he wasn't on a playoff team and all others, save for Bosh, were), and will be in a tempo/system that fits him well.

His defense is subpar (so is Amare's, who's is probably even worse), but this year Lee will be playing PF, not C, and should definitely see an improvement on defense.

I'm not sure if people will agree with this or not, but I'm just curious what PSD thinks...I couldn't care less about ESPN being ignorant/biased/etc.

Heater4life
08-19-2010, 06:33 PM
First off thanks for joining in July and thanks for being a homer....

:laugh2:

I dont get why he has a "homer" post. Bosh was the top free agent PF out there hands down. Thats who everybody wanted, thats who was running rampant on the rumor mill, if your team was looking for a PF they were looking at Bosh first.

Heater4life
08-19-2010, 06:37 PM
Maybe I'm a homer - and I'm sure that's part of it - but I really don't see David Lee being a bad signing. He's getting paid the least out of all of those guys, he produces similar to most of them (granted, he wasn't on a playoff team and all others, save for Bosh, were), and will be in a tempo/system that fits him well.

His defense is subpar (so is Amare's, who's is probably even worse), but this year Lee will be playing PF, not C, and should definitely see an improvement on defense.

I'm not sure if people will agree with this or not, but I'm just curious what PSD thinks...I couldn't care less about ESPN being ignorant/biased/etc.

David Lee was a great pick-up, hes just not going to take over a game/dominate. He gets his numbers and plays good ball. In other words he not the sexy signing these users covet. Great pick-up though.

PlezPlayDKnicks
08-19-2010, 06:39 PM
David Lee is terrible on defense. If Amare is worse than David Lee on defense then it was a terrible signing for us. I dont judge Lee against centers because he was undersized. But against power forwards he was abused as well. And most of his scoring was due to the offense almost exclusively being run through him.

The bigger centers couldnt guard him on the pick and roll and laid off his jumpshot. Against power forwards he struggled because they closed out on him a lil better. But the positives about David are he does have a knack for rebounding. His jumpshot was automatic from the key in. And he will definitely mesh well with Steph Curry. Good character guy and will play hard. And if he keeps adding to his game every season he's a good peice. Just not worth 80 million for a team with no mega star in place.

John Walls Era
08-19-2010, 06:39 PM
I agree that Bosh was the best PF signing. Wonder who voted him as one of the worst.

loki34
08-19-2010, 06:40 PM
hedo and warrick(tie)

Heater4life
08-19-2010, 06:40 PM
I'd say Boozer is the most significant because his impact is going to be the biggest felt by any signing amongst PFs.

i could agree with that. Id lean to towards Bosh because i think he will really benefit playing pick and roll ball with both Wade and Lebron on the wings. I think he'll be left with many open looks and i trust his shot. But Boozer will definatly a HUGE impact for the Bulls. Im curious to see them play.

PlezPlayDKnicks
08-19-2010, 06:44 PM
:laugh2:

I dont get why he has a "homer" post. Bosh was the top free agent PF out there hands down. Thats who everybody wanted, thats who was running rampant on the rumor mill, if your team was looking for a PF they were looking at Bosh first.

Being 26 had a lot to do with that.
Boozer is old and less talented
Amare - Microfracture surgery and retina surgery dulls his value.

But overall impact in a game and pretty much all of them are interchangable depending on your team needs. Amare is the most offensively dominant and was assisted on less fg as bosh. Boozer is the best back to the basket player. Bosh is the youngest and has a great variety to his game offensively.

godolphins
08-19-2010, 07:25 PM
Can u support that with facts mr facepalm.. The above quote can't be proven just as much as ur statement

That's common knowledge for sports fans

JordansBulls
08-19-2010, 08:08 PM
I think Amare is getting underrated here.

Avenged
08-19-2010, 08:27 PM
^^ Not only Amare, but every other PF not named Bosh is too.

Bosh is a phenomenal player, but he isn't the best PF out there at this point. He will be soon though with the top PF's aging and also the fact that Bosh is now on an elite team which holds great value when ranking a player.

But Bosh was never considered the best PF in the game throughout his whole career. All of a sudden he's in Miami and that makes him the best PF?

And I know where these Heat fans are coming from because we went through the same thing with Gasol. Thing is, Gasol has actually proved himself with an elite team.

It's Bosh's turn to do the same.

heattiltheend94
08-19-2010, 08:29 PM
Dirk does not hurt his team. He is currently the best PF in the game. Dirk's defense is also underrated. Amare and Boozer are below average defenders who do not score with the same efficiency as Dirk.


i disagree, Gasol is the best imo.

Lord Leoshes
08-19-2010, 08:30 PM
1. Chris Bosh
2. Amare Stoudemire
3. Carlos Boozer
4. Dirk Nowitzki
5. David Lee
6. Udonis Haslem

dhopisthename
08-19-2010, 10:53 PM
Booer has had the same amount if not more injuries than amare.

yes but none of them were micro fracture surgery

Hawkeye15
08-19-2010, 10:58 PM
i disagree, Gasol is the best imo.

tell me why

Hawkeye15
08-19-2010, 11:03 PM
David Lee is terrible on defense. If Amare is worse than David Lee on defense then it was a terrible signing for us. I dont judge Lee against centers because he was undersized. But against power forwards he was abused as well. And most of his scoring was due to the offense almost exclusively being run through him.

The bigger centers couldnt guard him on the pick and roll and laid off his jumpshot. Against power forwards he struggled because they closed out on him a lil better. But the positives about David are he does have a knack for rebounding. His jumpshot was automatic from the key in. And he will definitely mesh well with Steph Curry. Good character guy and will play hard. And if he keeps adding to his game every season he's a good peice. Just not worth 80 million for a team with no mega star in place.

ok, and how is Amare an upgrade? $20 million a year, and Lee is getting $13.4 million a year.
I provided more than enough evidence statistically. Lee is a poor defender. And so is Amare.
I am seriously waiting for any rational argument on why Amare is worth $100 over 5 years, and Lee is NOT worth $80 over 6 years.

Hawkeye15
08-19-2010, 11:04 PM
I think Amare is getting underrated here.

how? Great scorer, with no other game

Iodine
08-19-2010, 11:07 PM
how? Great scorer, with no other game

You can get great mixmaking clips from amare rather than lee :shrug:

and there were those rumblings at the end of the season about how he was the 2nd half MVP :laugh:

Yunqn
08-19-2010, 11:16 PM
Amare has 36 votes for the WORST PF signing. wow.

yea darko isnt a pf..and you pay 100 million for a big who is 28 often injuried on a team with no playmakers and he cant even get you 10 rebounds they outbidded themselves..

no one wouldve even payed 90 let alone a bad team and a 100

deke173
08-19-2010, 11:16 PM
How is Al Jefferson not being mentioned?

The post is called "The best PF SIGNING" not trade acquisition. Plus he would still be fifth.

SugeKnight
08-19-2010, 11:17 PM
lol either way i get your point.... bosh is still young lol

Did you really laugh out loud before and after that statement?

PlezPlayDKnicks
08-20-2010, 12:02 AM
how? Great scorer, with no other game

Lets see, Lee cant draw a double team or dominate a game on the offensive end. He stopped boxing out and doing some of the little things that he used to do. All the hustle plays. Now dont get me wrong, we asked Lee to do a lot but its always been a point of how numbers are inflated on bad teams. Lee is the perfect scenario. How about the fact that players have privately said that they want New York. NOBODY wanted to team with David Lee. Amare has played against the best pf in the league on a regular basis and dominated. Lee struggles against quicker and stronger power forwards. He had a quickness advantage playing against centers which really inflated his stats.

It takes actually watching Knick Games to know this. He will never reproduce last seasons numbers again. He was our borderline pg and 1st option scorer and rebounder. It got us 29 wins. I wont blame Lee for all our struggles. But you dont hand David Lee 80 mil. Is Amare overpaid. YESSSS. How many pf would you have over Amare.. Maybe Bosh, Dirk, Pau, and everything after that is sketchy. The list would definitely be larger for David Lee. We wouldnt even have rumors of CP3, Tony Parker, Melo if another valid star wasnt in place. Everyone was overpaid this summer for the most part. For one minute lets forget age and contracts. Amare and Bosh are hands down the best free agent bigs. No big played better than Amare down the stretch. Lee is a rich mans Kevin Love. I'd build around Amare any day of the week over David Lee. And Im a Lee fan. People said he's overrated when he was a Knick and now he's better than Stoudemire as a Warrior because he's 20 mil cheaper. That extra 20 mil over 5 years spread out is worth it. If David Lee is 1 of your major building blocks your in trouble. Amare's health is a risk we have to take.

PlezPlayDKnicks
08-20-2010, 12:08 AM
yea darko isnt a pf..and you pay 100 million for a big who is 28 often injuried on a team with no playmakers and he cant even get you 10 rebounds they outbidded themselves..

no one wouldve even payed 90 let alone a bad team and a 100

All of the power forwards have had injury problems. Amare had the worst of the bunch and still came back strong. Boozer was being criticized and was hated in Utah at the beginning for missing a large stretch. Bosh has had plenty of durability issues as well. If Chicago had snatched Amare you definitely wouldnt be complaining.

PlezPlayDKnicks
08-20-2010, 12:10 AM
You can get great mixmaking clips from amare rather than lee :shrug:

and there were those rumblings at the end of the season about how he was the 2nd half MVP :laugh:

Ive watched David Lee his whole career. How many times have you watched Lee.:rolleyes:

PlezPlayDKnicks
08-20-2010, 12:13 AM
yes but none of them were micro fracture surgery

How many games has he missed because of his knee since the surgery? He is probably the best recovery patient from the surgery period. How many years ago was that?

WingZzz
08-20-2010, 12:43 AM
if dirk was younger he would be number 1

Well he isn't... So that's that.

WingZzz
08-20-2010, 12:45 AM
lol your such a heat hater. how would dirk be better than bosh dirk hurts his team imo he doesnt have a set position. he plays like a small foward and isnt quick enough to guard a SF and is two weak to defend the PF. his shot is so crispy but he hurts his teams imo. but thats just my opinion so dont start bugging out. but i would rather have bosh, amare & boozer than dirk they can defend and know how to play their set position. a pf playing 37.5 mpg should avg more than only 7 boards.

It's Heat fans like yourself that give our fanbase a bad name.

koLohe2133
08-20-2010, 01:17 AM
jermaine oneal to the celtics!

Scarface-Bulls
08-20-2010, 01:17 AM
we kept saying boozer was a better signing for the bulls than stoudamire would be....now we aren't the only ones saying it.

Ovratd1up
08-20-2010, 01:26 AM
Agree there, definitely wanted Boozer more than Amare. Also wanted Lee more :shrug:.

icej
08-20-2010, 02:23 AM
I agree Amare is a bust move from knicks, good to know a lot of people seem to agree.

Its like the Isaiah Thomas coaching move that looks good at the start but eventually cost them.

mjt20mik
08-20-2010, 02:32 AM
The post is called "The best PF SIGNING" not trade acquisition. Plus he would still be fifth.

Well Bosh wasn't signed with Miami. He got traded there.

JordansBulls
08-20-2010, 09:01 AM
I agree Amare is a bust move from knicks, good to know a lot of people seem to agree.

Its like the Isaiah Thomas coaching move that looks good at the start but eventually cost them.

How is it a bust move?

29$JerZ
08-20-2010, 09:03 AM
How is it a bust move?

Any PF or player not clearly a Top position player is a waste if NY signs them it appears.

PlezPlayDKnicks
08-20-2010, 09:03 AM
Boozer is the best fit because all y'all needed was a low post back to the basket threat. But you guys will front like if u signed Amare you wouldn't be hyping him up. It's comical how quick we change our tunes

The Miami Cheat
08-20-2010, 09:20 AM
I agree Amare is a bust move from knicks, good to know a lot of people seem to agree.

Its like the Isaiah Thomas coaching move that looks good at the start but eventually cost them.

he's gonna put up big numbers for them this year IMO

xbrackattackx
08-20-2010, 11:08 AM
I think everyone will be on Amare's nuts by christmas. And Bosh will be struggling with the heat.

JordansBulls
08-20-2010, 12:54 PM
Any PF or player not clearly a Top position player is a waste if NY signs them it appears.

How is Amare not a top position player?

mikealike305
08-20-2010, 01:14 PM
How is Amare not a top position player?

KG, TD, Dirk, gasol and bosh are all better... not in that order

Slimsim
08-20-2010, 01:19 PM
[QUOTE=mikealike305;14635170]KG, TD, Dirk, gasol and bosh are all better... not in that order[/QUOTE

So you would take a Old Duncan and Garnett Before Amare ?

mikealike305
08-20-2010, 01:21 PM
[QUOTE=mikealike305;14635170]KG, TD, Dirk, gasol and bosh are all better... not in that order[/QUOTE

So you would take a Old Duncan and Garnett Before Amare ?

for one game today? yes... if both were FA and i got to pick which to ink to a 5 year deal? no

JordansBulls
08-20-2010, 01:54 PM
KG, TD, Dirk, gasol and bosh are all better... not in that order

None of them averaged 37 ppg in a playoff series like Amare did.

KG is not better anymore and Bosh never was better.

I'd say Gasol is better since he did lead a championship team in overall production leading in both PER and Win Shares in the season and the entire playoff in Win Shares.

DoJoTheSlasher
08-20-2010, 03:19 PM
None of them averaged 37 ppg in a playoff series like Amare did.

KG is not better anymore and Bosh never was better.

I'd say Gasol is better since he did lead a championship team in overall production leading in both PER and Win Shares in the season and the entire playoff in Win Shares.

Dirk is the best today. He is so much better than Amare. Gasol is so much better than Amare. Duncan is still better than Amare. Bosh is a little better. None averaged 37 in a series? Look at Dirk and Duncan's career playoff statistics. Amare had a few good years. TD and Dirk had 10 good years. Amare is like Monta Ellis. Fun player to watch who can score but can't win games.

dacreator101
08-20-2010, 03:34 PM
How is Al Jefferson not being mentioned?

lol cause each pf up there is better than him...dude havent had time to prove he better since been hurt for so long

blastmasta26
08-20-2010, 03:37 PM
Well Bosh wasn't signed with Miami. He got traded there.
Sign and trades don't count.

JordansBulls
08-20-2010, 04:25 PM
Sign and trades don't count.

He pretty much was signed. Same thing happened with Boozer as the Jazz got a TPE.

Wade>You
08-20-2010, 04:36 PM
He pretty much was signed. Same thing happened with Boozer as the Jazz got a TPE.I agree, they should count. The player was a free agent, it's just the way the CBA works that it had to be a trade in order for the player to get the most money and years.

PlezPlayDKnicks
08-20-2010, 04:53 PM
Dirk is the best today. He is so much better than Amare. Gasol is so much better than Amare. Duncan is still better than Amare. Bosh is a little better. None averaged 37 in a series? Look at Dirk and Duncan's career playoff statistics. Amare had a few good years. TD and Dirk had 10 good years. Amare is like Monta Ellis. Fun player to watch who can score but can't win games.

So when people were callin him Gasoft he was still the best pf. I agree he is the best now bcuz of what he helped la do but let's not act like Amare wouldn't beast in LA next to Kobe and company .. KG and Duncan in their prime were hands down better than Amare and he still gave them fits. It's what they brought on the defensive end is what used to set them apart. Amare is on par with every current star power forward in the league. He def has his flaws but every player has weaknesses.

Hawkeye15
08-20-2010, 04:54 PM
Dirk
Gasol/Duncan
Bosh
Amare/Lee

DoJoTheSlasher
08-20-2010, 05:04 PM
So when people were callin him Gasoft he was still the best pf. I agree he is the best now bcuz of what he helped la do but let's not act like Amare wouldn't beast in LA next to Kobe and company .. KG and Duncan in their prime were hands down better than Amare and he still gave them fits. It's what they brought on the defensive end is what used to set them apart. Amare is on par with every current star power forward in the league. He def has his flaws but every player has weaknesses.

?? I said Dirk was the best PF today.

Kashmir13579
08-20-2010, 05:07 PM
healthy amar'e owns bosh and boozer. dirks on some whole nuther ****.

Hawkeye15
08-20-2010, 05:10 PM
healthy amar'e owns bosh and boozer. dirks on some whole nuther ****.

Amare vs Bosh, head to head

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=stoudam01&p2=boshch01


Amare vs Boozer, head to head

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=stoudam01&p2=boozeca01

PlezPlayDKnicks
08-20-2010, 05:29 PM
Amare vs Bosh, head to head

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=stoudam01&p2=boshch01


Amare vs Boozer, head to head

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=stoudam01&p2=boozeca01

Thx again 4 the numbers.. Even tho the numbers support what we already knew I'll wait to see what he does in a Ny uniform. I just wanna squash the ridiculous Amare hate. Yes he is overpaid but he matches up against any pf in the league well. If it's not a problem can u post him against david lee, Duncan, Gasol,Dirk, and KG just for arguments sake. It would be greatly appreciated.

Hawkeye15
08-20-2010, 05:35 PM
Amare vs Lee

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=stoudam01&p2=leeda02

Amare vs Garnett

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=stoudam01&p2=garneke01

Amare vs Duncan

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=stoudam01&p2=duncati01

Amare vs Nowitzki

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=stoudam01&p2=nowitdi01

Amare vs Gasol

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=stoudam01&p2=gasolpa01

Hawkeye15
08-20-2010, 05:37 PM
let it be known I despise head to head matchups to claim one player is better than another, they are a small sample size of games versus a huge sample size of game that tell us who the better player is. Deron has outplayed CP3 head to head, and there is no way on earth Deron is better.
But it is an interesting comparison to look at none the less

PlezPlayDKnicks
08-20-2010, 05:58 PM
let it be known I despise head to head matchups to claim one player is better than another, they are a small sample size of games versus a huge sample size of game that tell us who the better player is. Deron has outplayed CP3 head to head, and there is no way on earth Deron is better.
But it is an interesting comparison to look at none the less

I agree but when marquee guys matchup against each other and you list how a single player matches up against the best at their position it gives a good perspective on how valuable that player is. I won't deny that Bosh can be argued as a better player. But heart and desire , effort and leadership can't be measured in stat sheets.

I personally believe that Amare's mental toughness is way better than Bosh. He shows up in big games and has a killer instinct. Bosh is great and I'm not tryin to discredit him at all but he in my opinion couldn't handle the Ny spotlight if he had to do it alone. Every1 knows Amate wanted the guaranteed money so I won't act like he just came to save the Knicks . I don't think Bosh would go to a team alone without being sure.

Hawkeye15
08-20-2010, 05:59 PM
I agree but when marquee guys matchup against each other and you list how a single player matches up against the best at their position it gives a good perspective on how valuable that player is. I won't deny that Bosh can be argued as a better player. But heart and desire , effort and leadership can't be measured in stat sheets.

I personally believe that Amare's mental toughness is way better than Bosh. He shows up in big games and has a killer instinct. Bosh is great and I'm not tryin to discredit him at all but he in my opinion couldn't handle the Ny spotlight if he had to do it alone. Every1 knows Amate wanted the guaranteed money so I won't act like he just came to save the Knicks . I don't think Bosh would go to a team alone without being sure.

this I can agree with.

Byronicle
08-20-2010, 06:32 PM
lol your such a heat hater. how would dirk be better than bosh dirk hurts his team imo he doesnt have a set position. he plays like a small foward and isnt quick enough to guard a SF and is two weak to defend the PF. his shot is so crispy but he hurts his teams imo. but thats just my opinion so dont start bugging out. but i would rather have bosh, amare & boozer than dirk they can defend and know how to play their set position. a pf playing 37.5 mpg should avg more than only 7 boards.

umm how many playoff games did Bosh win? Now ask yourself how many did Dirk win? Dirk changed the way people see the game for bigs like PFs, you are arguing that Dirk plays like a SF, hello BOSH IS A SF, difference is Dirk has more versatility offensively anyday.

PlezPlayDKnicks
08-20-2010, 06:36 PM
I personally watched Dirk wreck the Knicks. He's not a highlight film but he carves teams up with an awkward surgical precision. He looks so off balanced in the paint but nails it everytime.

Voodoo Alchemy
08-20-2010, 06:53 PM
Dirk does not hurt his team. He is currently the best PF in the game. Dirk's defense is also underrated. Amare and Boozer are below average defenders who do not score with the same efficiency as Dirk.

pau gasol is the best pf in the game.

koreancabbage
08-20-2010, 07:02 PM
anyways, PF's can not win this game alone anymore. they need good guards since this is a guard's game nowadays.

Dirk brought them all the way to the Finals- he's a winner. Pau has done the same as well as the "sidekick" but we know he's the MVP to stave off the opponents two bigs.

Amare has not led his team to winning, Nash has done all that.

you know why Amare was the worst signing, cuz he's almost statistically the same as Lee without the rebounding.

Bosh's signing basically convinced Lebron to go to Miami --> so that was important for Miami in getting Lebron, so yes, it was important, however not worth the contract, but worth getting Lebron. thus why Bosh is higher up.

Hawkeye15
08-20-2010, 08:05 PM
pau gasol is the best pf in the game.

negative

Avenged
08-20-2010, 08:56 PM
Pau Gasol is #2 on my list among PF's

Dirk and then Gasol for me.

He has impressive numbers and is the most efficient player in the best team in the league. 2 time champion being a major contributer.

JordansBulls
08-20-2010, 11:10 PM
negative

Who you got #1?

Timmy???

Wade>You
08-20-2010, 11:31 PM
Bosh's signing basically convinced Lebron to go to Miami --> so that was important for Miami in getting Lebron, so yes, it was important, however not worth the contract, but worth getting Lebron. thus why Bosh is higher up.Almost any team in the NBA would have maxed out Chris Bosh.

Super.
08-20-2010, 11:41 PM
How is Al Jefferson not being mentioned?

Because he was traded...


DERP

Hawkeye15
08-20-2010, 11:41 PM
Who you got #1?

Timmy???

Dirk. You then have Duncan, and then Gasol. After that you get a debate

PlezPlayDKnicks
08-20-2010, 11:56 PM
anyways, PF's can not win this game alone anymore. they need good guards since this is a guard's game nowadays.

Dirk brought them all the way to the Finals- he's a winner. Pau has done the same as well as the "sidekick" but we know he's the MVP to stave off the opponents two bigs.

Amare has not led his team to winning, Nash has done all that.
you know why Amare was the worst signing, cuz he's almost statistically the same as Lee without the rebounding.

Bosh's signing basically convinced Lebron to go to Miami --> so that was important for Miami in getting Lebron, so yes, it was important, however not worth the contract, but worth getting Lebron. thus why Bosh is higher up.

So every1 who does 20pts and 10 rebs has the same impact on the game. Amare's presence opens up the floor because people have to pay attention to Him. Lee doesnt draw double teams. Lee doesnt go to the Line 8 - 10 times per night. Lee's numbers doesnt open up oppurtunities for other people. Scoring 20 & 10 in losses is different than scoring 20 & 10 and making the game easier for your teammates. Everything cant always be told in the stat sheet. Al Harrington was almost a 20pt scorer last year. Does that make him as good as Iggy. Lee is a nice player but is no way near as good as Amare.

If Boozer Or Amare wouldve joined Wade , Lebron most likely wouldve went to Miami. It was obvious he wanted a trio to dominate the league. He coulda easily went to Chicago,NY, or even the Clippers and had a great 1 -2 punch.

Hawkeye15
08-20-2010, 11:59 PM
PlezPlayDKnicks, while some of your reasoning is flawed, statistically speaking, you have done a great job in this thread being rational and fair. I think this thread belongs to you sir

thescore53
08-21-2010, 12:02 AM
Almost any team in the NBA would have maxed out Chris Bosh.

not every team. it still hurts my head that he makes more money then wade

Iodine
08-21-2010, 12:06 AM
not every team. it still hurts my head that he makes more money then wade

Because Wade willingly took a paycut, and his was bigger than the other two's

PlezPlayDKnicks
08-21-2010, 12:14 AM
PlezPlayDKnicks, while some of your reasoning is flawed, statistically speaking, you have done a great job in this thread being rational and fair. I think this thread belongs to you sir

Your def right about the stats. But I was just trying to get my point across. Thx for the compliment!!!!!

Rocco007
08-21-2010, 12:18 AM
Dirk does not hurt his team. He is currently the best PF in the game. Dirk's defense is also underrated. Amare and Boozer are below average defenders who do not score with the same efficiency as Dirk.

How can Dirk be rated #1 at the PF position when has no post game to speak of?
He's a great shooter for his size...
and I'll even say he's a one of the best scorers at PF...
But he's not overall as skilled as a Pau Gasol or a KG...
who can beat you inside or outside...

PlezPlayDKnicks
08-21-2010, 12:25 AM
How can Dirk be rated #1 at the PF position when has no post game to speak of?
He's a great shooter for his size...
and I'll even say he's a one of the best scorers at PF...
But he's not overall as skilled as a Pau Gasol or a KG...
who can beat you inside or outside...

Dirk is the biggest mismatch in the league. He is every bit as skilled as Pau and KG is old and is no longer even top 5. He is very important to Boston as a unit but on an individual basis he's not in Dirk's class anymore. How many pf can hit the 3,midrange at a great %. Shoot it great at the free throw line , And reak havoc on whoever you put on him. It's poetry in motion watching Dirk. A 7ftr who beats you if you put a slow big on him or just shoots over a smaller defender. His game is so awkward but so tough at the same time. Pau is great but he's on a stacked LA team. He's right up there just not over Dirk.

KG a few years ago is a different story. But then again the same could be said for Duncan. Father time has caught up to them both. The team concept serves them best now.

Hawkeye15
08-21-2010, 12:33 AM
How can Dirk be rated #1 at the PF position when has no post game to speak of?
He's a great shooter for his size...
and I'll even say he's a one of the best scorers at PF...
But he's not overall as skilled as a Pau Gasol or a KG...
who can beat you inside or outside...

man, they are so close now. Dirk crapped on him previously, but Gasol has moved into the discussion for best PF at this point, no doubt.
Here is the difference.
Dirk turns the ball over far less. He draws way more fouls. His offensive win share increase over Pau comes from these two factors.
Factor in their defense is very, very close, and you get Dirk ahead of Pau

thescore53
08-21-2010, 12:39 AM
im kinda feeling amare > gasol.

Hawkeye15
08-21-2010, 12:40 AM
im kinda feeling amare > gasol.

oh god no

Iodine
08-21-2010, 12:44 AM
im kinda feeling amare > gasol.

:pity:

That is just epic

PlezPlayDKnicks
08-21-2010, 12:46 AM
In a game I feel u ( Im a bit of a homer here, I have a right to be LOL). Thru the course of a season I gotta say Gasol. He has proven to be a vital peice of back to back championships. Cant say if the swapped teams it would be the same outcome. So Gasol has the edge. Both cant guard each other IMO.

Iodine
08-21-2010, 12:48 AM
In a game I feel u ( Im a bit of a homer here, I have a right to be LOL). Thru the course of a season I gotta say Gasol. He has proven to be a vital peice of back to back championships. Cant say if the swapped teams it would be the same outcome. So Gasol has the edge. Both cant guard each other IMO.

Very nice post

thescore53
08-21-2010, 01:00 AM
im kinda feeling big al > bosh. he did average 23-11 before last season.

Hawkeye15
08-21-2010, 01:04 AM
im kinda feeling big al > bosh. he did average 23-11 before last season.

I am kinda feeling that you need to explain your opinions emperically. otherwise we stop paying attention...

JordansBulls
08-21-2010, 08:24 AM
How can Dirk be rated #1 at the PF position when has no post game to speak of?
He's a great shooter for his size...
and I'll even say he's a one of the best scorers at PF...
But he's not overall as skilled as a Pau Gasol or a KG...
who can beat you inside or outside...

Who cares about skills it is about being effective.

quade36
08-21-2010, 08:36 AM
A couple of points.
1. I haven't read through this entire thread so I apologize if this response is only based on the last few pages.
2. Gasol is awesome. Definitely a top 5 pf in the leagues and probably the most important member of the lakers. (Sorry kobe fans but gasol is the reason that team wins) 3. Duncan is the best power forward. He may go down as one of the top five of all time. 4. Dirk was the best fa pf.

Yes this is all my opinion but at least its non biased :)

Hawkeye15
08-21-2010, 10:47 AM
A couple of points.
1. I haven't read through this entire thread so I apologize if this response is only based on the last few pages.
2. Gasol is awesome. Definitely a top 5 pf in the leagues and probably the most important member of the lakers. (Sorry kobe fans but gasol is the reason that team wins) 3. Duncan is the best power forward. He may go down as one of the top five of all time. 4. Dirk was the best fa pf.

Yes this is all my opinion but at least its non biased :)

fair enough. I will listen to Duncan vs Dirk for best PF all day long. Gasol is barely behind them, and I agree he was the most consistent force for the Lakers this year.

JordansBulls
08-21-2010, 01:41 PM
fair enough. I will listen to Duncan vs Dirk for best PF all day long. Gasol is barely behind them, and I agree he was the most consistent force for the Lakers this year.

Agreed

nanablvd
08-21-2010, 02:02 PM
Bosh gets my vote as the best PF signing, but he wont have the most impressive statline apparently.

thescore53
08-21-2010, 02:04 PM
amare is making 10 mill less and is argubaly better. so i dont thnk bosh was the best pf signing

JordansBulls
08-21-2010, 03:27 PM
im kinda feeling amare > gasol.

2007 and 2005 maybe.