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View Full Version : Did N.O make a mistake by trading Collison? 'If Melo goes to NY,Paul could follow"



spreadeagle
08-19-2010, 10:11 AM
If Melo does go to NY,I would say theres a huge chance CP3 lands there eventually as well.In which case getting Trevor Ariza "way overated IMO" and dealing strong backup PG Collison to make Paul happy would have been in vain,Ariza is not Melo and I doubt his presece will make CP3 stay in N.O. Should they have kept their Chris Paul backup plan? I say yes.If he is as good as ppl think hes gunna be in Ind,and Paul bolts for NY there front office will look really dumb http://grfx.cstv.com/schools/wake/graphics/auto/paul-anthony-medals.jpg

Kingdre619
08-19-2010, 10:14 AM
of course they are making a mistake, but it is what it is, the past is the past and it cannot be un-done

Hawkeye15
08-19-2010, 10:15 AM
New Orleans made the mistake of trading Collision and only getting Ariza back. He was an obvious chip but they should have done better

_Supreme_
08-19-2010, 10:18 AM
Melo & Paul could end up together in Brooklyn just as easily.

New Orleans has him under contract for two more seasons, so it is not a concern for them right now.

Hawkeye15
08-19-2010, 10:22 AM
Melo & Paul could end up together in Brooklyn just as easily.

New Orleans has him under contract for two more seasons, so it is not a concern for them right now.

that is why I don't get why CP3 is even being talked about right now. He is of no consequence. He is under contract for 2 more seasons. He has zip leverage.

spreadeagle
08-19-2010, 10:24 AM
New Orleans made the mistake of trading Collision and only getting Ariza back. He was an obvious chip but they should have done better

Agreed,Ind need a PG bad! as do Bobcats and Det. They should have held out. Ariza is way overpaid n did well in a contract year.They already have David West who is a better version of Ariza

spreadeagle
08-19-2010, 10:27 AM
that is why I don't get why CP3 is even being talked about right now. He is of no consequence. He is under contract for 2 more seasons. He has zip leverage.

Not if he tells management im gone in 2 seasons and we are probably not gunna win in those 2 seasons so trade me now and you will get MAX value.Alot of teams will trade some good pieces even if he only stays there 2 years could make a good team a great team. idk just some thoughts

Hawkeye15
08-19-2010, 10:29 AM
Not if he tells management im gone in 2 seasons and we are probably not gunna win in those 2 seasons so trade me now and you will get MAX value.Alot of teams will trade some good pieces even if he only stays there 2 years could make a good team a great team. idk just some thoughts

he can't do that. Paul's value will only be hurt if he sucks next season. Sorry, not gonna happen. I get the second half of your statment, but you attempt to keep the cash strapped Hornets afloat after trading away your franchise player in his prime, the best PG in 15 years, when the fans tell you to fk off and you have an empty arena

Kingdre619
08-19-2010, 10:29 AM
btw, if melo goes to NY, cp3 could still decide to sign with d12

Hawkeye15
08-19-2010, 10:31 AM
Agreed,Ind need a PG bad! as do Bobcats and Det. They should have held out. Ariza is way overpaid n did well in a contract year.They already have David West who is a better version of Ariza

well, Ariza is a SF, West a PF, so they will both start. Ariza basically showed he is a terrific role player, but when given a defined, important role, his efficiency spiked downward. Paul makes everyone look better than they are, so when Ariza's efficiency spikes back up a bit, people will clamor that it wasn't all that bad of a trade, blah, blah, blah, when in reality, it was not the best NO could have gotten.

Hawkeye15
08-19-2010, 10:32 AM
btw, if melo goes to NY, cp3 could still decide to sign with d12

Orlando won't have the money. he would need to be traded in

spreadeagle
08-19-2010, 10:33 AM
btw, if melo goes to NY, cp3 could still decide to sign with d12

Poor Raymond Felton all this Tony Parker CP3 talk probably pisses him off a bit lol

_Supreme_
08-19-2010, 10:34 AM
that is why I don't get why CP3 is even being talked about right now. He is of no consequence. He is under contract for 2 more seasons. He has zip leverage.

This is simply the new item the media has hopped on to sell their articles to the fans now that they can't really milk out "Lebron" and the whole "2010" soap series anymore.

"Melo" & "CP3" will probably be the "Lebron" & "Wade" of the next two years as far as intentionally created hype and/or bs stories/rumours goes. Melo for next season and Paul for the next two seasons.

A lot of (the same) fans will buy into this just as much as they did for the past two and a half years. The media is playing those people like a fiddle.

spreadeagle
08-19-2010, 10:35 AM
he can't do that. Paul's value will only be hurt if he sucks next season. Sorry, not gonna happen. I get the second half of your statment, but you attempt to keep the cash strapped Hornets afloat after trading away your franchise player in his prime, the best PG in 15 years, when the fans tell you to fk off and you have an empty arena

I dont think Paul would play with less effort,just if NO management thought Ariza makes them a contender and will keep Paul I think they are wrong

Hawkeye15
08-19-2010, 10:48 AM
I dont think Paul would play with less effort,just if NO management thought Ariza makes them a contender and will keep Paul I think they are wrong

IF New Orleans stays healthy, they could easily be a playoff team.
Paul
Peja
Ariza
West
Okafor

Thornton, Belenelli, Songalia, Diogu, Brackins

this is a pretty good team with minimal depth.

DenButsu
08-19-2010, 10:50 AM
They're probably banking on a lockout.

Hawkeye15
08-19-2010, 10:58 AM
They're probably banking on a lockout.

hmm, good point. I would guess that is sitting in the back of every owner's mind currently

Carey
08-19-2010, 11:06 AM
I dont get this notion that people feel they could have got much more, He's a good player dont get me wrong but he and Paul could never really play effectively together. Neither would excel off the ball or as a spot up shooter, plus with a healthy Paul he's gonna play 40 mins a game.

Hawkeye15
08-19-2010, 11:12 AM
I dont get this notion that people feel they could have got much more, He's a good player dont get me wrong but he and Paul could never really play effectively together. Neither would excel off the ball or as a spot up shooter, plus with a healthy Paul he's gonna play 40 mins a game.

but you don't settle because of that. Collision is already better than Ariza probably. I think NO is really trying to quiet Paul by attempting to get help, and pulled the trigger on the first decent deal that came along.

xbrackattackx
08-19-2010, 11:17 AM
I think they will be fine, I think Paul will leave in 2 years but he will be quiet till then.

jjizle
08-19-2010, 11:17 AM
i think the trade was a huge mistake. still not convinced paul is fully back to normal after his injury. this could really hurt the hornets. props to indy though that was a great deal for them. have a solid starting nucleus.

Antipod
08-19-2010, 11:19 AM
If if if, let`s just see if Melo lands and NY, then we COULD speculate :)

Carey
08-19-2010, 11:22 AM
but you don't settle because of that. Collision is already better than Ariza probably. I think NO is really trying to quiet Paul by attempting to get help, and pulled the trigger on the first decent deal that came along.

But where's the leverage to get this greater deal?, everyone in the league knows they cant play together so they wont offer but so much. On top of the fact that alot of people have their pg situation settled and he doesnt fit as a spot up shooter. New Orleans did well, they got a starter who is capable on both ends of the court and fits the way they wanna play.

Hawkeye15
08-19-2010, 11:24 AM
But where's the leverage to get this greater deal?, everyone in the league knows they cant play together so they wont offer but so much. On top of the fact that alot of people have their pg situation settled and he doesnt fit as a spot up shooter. New Orleans did well, they got a starter who is capable on both ends of the court and fits the way they wanna play.

its not about whether they can play together. Every GM also saw that Collision will be a very good starting PG. He was worth more than a 4th option who defends. Period.

twoearl
08-19-2010, 11:24 AM
Paul and Melo will both be leaving thier teams sooner or later. I think we ALL know that at least. I think New Orleans and Denver would be smart to trade them now. Why wait for the inevitable? Trade them now and start trying to rebuild. Look at how the whole "we are going to wait till the last year of his deal to trade him" worked out for the Suns, Cavs and Raps? LOL

spreadeagle
08-19-2010, 11:26 AM
i think the trade was a huge mistake. still not convinced paul is fully back to normal after his injury. this could really hurt the hornets. props to indy though that was a great deal for them. have a solid starting nucleus.

Agreed.If I were them I would have dealt Paul while his injury status was still up in the air for a boat load of talent from a team who is trying to compete with Miami,Then you still have Collison who is maybe 70% of Chris Pauls talent,but making a ton less money,he is seen as a player on the way up,while CP3 if his injury is still buggin him could be in for a down year.Then you have


Collison
Allstar talent "Trade for Paul"
Allstar Talent
West
Okafor

spreadeagle
08-19-2010, 11:30 AM
If if if, let`s just see if Melo lands and NY, then we COULD speculate :)

I think hes gone in 2 years no matter what Melo does and in Which case you have lost a great replacement for him for Ariza,and without a good PG Ariza will be terrible anyway

Carey
08-19-2010, 11:34 AM
its not about whether they can play together. Every GM also saw that Collision will be a very good starting PG. He was worth more than a 4th option who defends. Period.

You have to factoring in the Posey salary dump as well. Ariza will play mins in the high 30's while Collison would never have been able to play those type of mins. Most teams have point guards or at least young pg's they are grooming. You find me a better and realistic option, i just dont see it tho i get your point?

Kakaroach
08-19-2010, 11:35 AM
No, because they needed to trade Collison to get a good piece back in Trevor Ariza. So they did not make a mistake, because if Paul leaves they can at least say they did their best in order to keep him.

spreadeagle
08-19-2010, 11:39 AM
No, because they needed to trade Collison to get a good piece back in Trevor Ariza. So they did not make a mistake, because if Paul leaves they can at least say they did their best in order to keep him.

I think there is too much priority in teams doing trades to say "At least we tried to keep him" Toronto did this with Hedo Turkoglu to keep Bosh and it KILLED us,just like Ariza will do with N.O I think.Teams should say he was gunna leave we all saw it coming so we got as much back for him as we could before it was too late and we got a TPE and a 2 2round picks

RS559
08-19-2010, 11:39 AM
I think he would go play with Melo and Amare, Gallinari might prove to be a good shooter as well so maybe he sees the bright lights and demands a trade. The Collison trade was pretty bad but hindsight is 20/20.

xbrackattackx
08-19-2010, 11:53 AM
I think he is gonna blow up into a superstar in Indy and they are gonna regret not getting more for him.

Patrick Swayze
08-19-2010, 12:59 PM
IF New Orleans stays healthy, they could easily be a playoff team.
Paul
Peja
Ariza
West
Okafor

Thornton, Belenelli, Songalia, Diogu, Brackins

this is a pretty good team with minimal depth.

Paul
Thornton
Ariza
West
Okafor


Peja won't start. Unless he is healthy which he probably won't be.

THE MTL
08-19-2010, 01:14 PM
I think it was a mistake for New Orleans to trade Collision and only get back Ariza. Seriously, he was a PG in the Western conference leading his team with 19ppg 9apg as a starter in his rookie season! Thats SOME value right there and to only get back Ariza who ISNT an efficient NBA player. Yeah he gets his stats, but very inefficiently.

The Miami Cheat
08-19-2010, 01:25 PM
i think hornets should've kept collison he was lookin like he could be something good...i think he could've been good for them down the road...especially if cp3 leaves but rite now i find that unlikely IMO

VinceCarter
08-19-2010, 01:25 PM
If Melo went to the Nets, CP3 would also follow.

It's not just the Knicks. Everybody needs to stop worshiping the Knicks as the only suitor.

Hawkeye15
08-19-2010, 01:32 PM
Paul
Thornton
Ariza
West
Okafor


Peja won't start. Unless he is healthy which he probably won't be.

true

lakerfan3118
08-19-2010, 01:36 PM
All 3 of them on the same team cannot happen financially unless someone takes a drastic paycut. Considering Anthony wants out of Denver simply because he wants to get paid the maximum deal, the odds of this happening in New York is slim to none, just like the odds of Chris Paul heading to the Knicks is slim to none.

Wilson
08-19-2010, 01:54 PM
Agreed,Ind need a PG bad! as do Bobcats and Det. They should have held out. Ariza is way overpaid n did well in a contract year.They already have David West who is a better version of Ariza

I know Laker fans opinions of Trevor Ariza aren't the most trusted (even a year on), but I think he is a great addition to the Hornets. Yes, his production dropped sharply last season, but that's because he was never an on-ball player. His game has always been slashing to the basket and then with the Lakers he developed his outside game.

A guy who can score but not handle the ball, all he needs is a PG. I think Chris Paul and Trevor Ariza are perfect for each other.

With all that being said, I think it would have been worth a look at trading Chris Paul before Darren Collison. They had a great player to step into the starting line-up at PG, and could have gotten two great players in return for Paul rather than the one they got in return for Collison.

lakerfan3118
08-19-2010, 02:06 PM
With all that being said, I think it would have been worth a look at trading Chris Paul before Darren Collison. They had a great player to step into the starting line-up at PG, and could have gotten two great players in return for Paul rather than the one they got in return for Collison.

Had they traded Paul, they would not have gotten equal talent for him. About the best they could have received would have been an expiring contract or two and perhaps a draft pick, but not any sort of player that would warrant trading the superstar. At the very least with the Collison trade, they received a player in Ariza that is comparable talent wise.

IndyRealist
08-19-2010, 02:08 PM
I think it was actually a depressed market for PG's this offseason, as most teams either drafted a quality PG in the last two years or have a vet firmly entrenched. Only Charlotte, Indiana, the Lakers, Memphis, and Miami were in need of a starting PG, the Lakers didn't want to break up their core, and Miami didn't have anything to trade, leaving 3 teams that could have needed Collison and conceiveably traded for him. I don't know that New Orleans could have gotten much more for Collison, AND found a 3rd team to take on salary.

Atlanta - Jeff Teague is likely to take major minutes this year from Bibby
Boston - Rondo's entrenched
Chicago - Rose
Cleveland - Mo Williams is their #1 option now
Dallas - Roddy Buckets is behind Kidd
Denver - Ty Lawson is behind Billups
Detriot - For some reason, they still think Stuckey's a PG
Golden State - Two starting PG's
Houston - Two starting PG's
Clippers - Baron Davis is untradeable
Milwaukee - Brandon Jennings
Minnesota - 15 PG's, plus Rubio in Europe
New Jersey - Devin Harris
Oklahoma City - Russell Westbrook
Orlando - Jameer Nelson
Philly - Jrue Holiday
Phoenix - Goran Dragic is going to replace Nash when he retires
Portland - Andre Miller with Jarryd Bayless behind him
Sacramento - Tyreke Evans
San Antonio - George Hill will replace Parker when he's a FA
Toronto - Two "starting" PG's
Utah - Deron Williams
Washington - John Wall

abe_froman
08-19-2010, 02:18 PM
no,because no has paul right now,and has the option to improve the team to put around him.where as ny is banking on their prayers again.

could paul leave? sure.but you can only deal with what is,and right now they have him and had the option to get a good complimentary player for someone who wouldnt be starting for the foreseeable future

Hawkeye15
08-19-2010, 02:48 PM
I think it was actually a depressed market for PG's this offseason, as most teams either drafted a quality PG in the last two years or have a vet firmly entrenched. Only Charlotte, Indiana, the Lakers, Memphis, and Miami were in need of a starting PG, the Lakers didn't want to break up their core, and Miami didn't have anything to trade, leaving 3 teams that could have needed Collison and conceiveably traded for him. I don't know that New Orleans could have gotten much more for Collison, AND found a 3rd team to take on salary.

Atlanta - Jeff Teague is likely to take major minutes this year from Bibby
Boston - Rondo's entrenched
Chicago - Rose
Cleveland - Mo Williams is their #1 option now
Dallas - Roddy Buckets is behind Kidd
Denver - Ty Lawson is behind Billups
Detriot - For some reason, they still think Stuckey's a PG
Golden State - Two starting PG's
Houston - Two starting PG's
Clippers - Baron Davis is untradeable
Milwaukee - Brandon Jennings
Minnesota - 15 PG's, plus Rubio in Europe
New Jersey - Devin Harris
Oklahoma City - Russell Westbrook
Orlando - Jameer Nelson
Philly - Jrue Holiday
Phoenix - Goran Dragic is going to replace Nash when he retires
Portland - Andre Miller with Jarryd Bayless behind him
Sacramento - Tyreke Evans
San Antonio - George Hill will replace Parker when he's a FA
Toronto - Two "starting" PG's
Utah - Deron Williams
Washington - John Wall


Flynn (out 3 months), Ridnour, Telfair. That's it. I am getting annoyed with the PG/Minnesota thing

HornetsSolution
08-19-2010, 03:14 PM
Its funny how people think that IF Melo bolt for NY then Paul will follow but no one thinks that Melo could follow CP3.:confused: As far as the trade it was a good deal. People including us as Hornets fans had too much value on Collison. It was a small market for PG like someone stated plus they knew he was going to backup the best PG in the league. Getting Ariza who's a good defender and can play off the ball is what we needed for CP3. Everyone remember how good he was next to a star? I think he will go back to being that. He couldn't do that in Houston because the star was hurt and he couldnt take on that responsiblilty. It just wasn't his game. CP3 is happy and excited. We isn't trading for over the hill players like Cleveland was, we are trading for players who are just starting in they prime. And they aint finish.:D

97NYer
08-19-2010, 03:30 PM
Agreed,Ind need a PG bad! as do Bobcats and Det. They should have held out. Ariza is way overpaid n did well in a contract year.They already have David West who is a better version of Ariza

?

spreadeagle
08-19-2010, 03:51 PM
?

Hes an athletic scorer's I know they dont play same position but I would have went for a upgrade at Center,and packaged Okafor

spreadeagle
08-19-2010, 03:53 PM
If Melo went to the Nets, CP3 would also follow.

It's not just the Knicks. Everybody needs to stop worshiping the Knicks as the only suitor.

Well NJ was suppose to be a player this off season and what happend? I still like there roster though,I got bets they will make playoffs

PrettyBoyJ
08-19-2010, 03:54 PM
if thts the only move they make until his contract is over then it wud be a mistake

xbrackattackx
08-19-2010, 05:03 PM
Flynn (out 3 months), Ridnour, Telfair. That's it. I am getting annoyed with the PG/Minnesota thing

Dude they have been saying it for like 2 years now, Just Ignore it and when Love and Beastly surprise everyone with the wolves in the playoffs and Rubio here next season just laugh at them.

xbrackattackx
08-19-2010, 05:04 PM
David West is nothing like Ariza. you guys failed on that one.

TheWatcher34
08-19-2010, 05:05 PM
he had a couple of good games. collison is not even close to establish himself in the nba pg discussion. he hasnt proven that he can lead a team. soo mistake trading him??? god knows. for now it is what it is.

The Raven
08-20-2010, 05:04 PM
personally i think it was a bad move on their part. I see Paul leaving so not sure what they are gonna do if he in fact does leave

saintdrew
08-20-2010, 06:41 PM
Being a Hornets fan, I can elaborate for you guys....

Before I go into my opinion, I'll reiterate what someone said earlier in this thread, and that's we shouldn't be discussing Chris Paul. He is of no consequence, and has 2 years remaining on his contract. He's got no say in what he does, and IF he was to be traded, the offer from whatever team would have to be extremely great for the Hornets.

Now, do I think the trade Collison trade was a mistake? I think it's too early to say anything, honestly. If everyone on the Hornets roster stays healthy, then you have a guaranteed playoff team IMO.

But, the Collison trade was just a small bit of what's to come. The Hornets are gearing up for a huge 2011 offseason --- or maybe a big move at the trade deadline, probably concerning Peja Stojakovic.

What you'll see next offseason is David West with a player option. I've heard Dell Demps sat down with West and told him that they are including him for their long-term plans. Paul & West are really good friends I think, at least from what I read/hear. And if you follow the NBA, Paul was upset about the Hornets trading Tyson Chandler. I think that was the beginning of the "Chris Paul wanting to be traded" fiasco earlier this summer. And the icing on the cake was the Miami trio getting together.

David West will want a new contract extension, with more money obviously. His contract right now is very affordable considering he's a 2 time All-Star. And you have to figure that we'll also sign Marcus Thornton to a new deal. We will have Emeka Okafor on the books for 4 more season as well. If the Hornets let West walk and get a new contract, then you can bet Paul will become more vocal about his unhappiness about the team.

So....I do think the Collison trade could lead to bigger things with our team. But when we made this deal, we essentially set in stone a future lineup of:

PG- Chris Paul
SG- Marcus Thornton
SF- Trevor Ariza
PF- David West
C- Emeka Okafor
6th Man- Peja Stojakovic

^ That's a decent lineup in the NBA. It's a lot better than this:

PG- Chris Paul
SG- James Posey
SF- Peja Stojakovic
PF- David West
C- Emeka Okafor
6th Man- Morris Peterson

The Hornets front office should be considered gamblers because that's what we're doing with the Collison trade and hoping Chris Paul stays. I think we win between 43-50 games this season IF everyone stays healthy.

IversonIsKrazy
08-20-2010, 11:51 PM
To be honest I think they did. I know CP is worth giving ur all, but even after the trade there still a playoff team that won't go far. They should have really really kept Collison & Thorton-(which they did) and traded CP for some good young pieces to build a core with.

Hawkeye15
08-20-2010, 11:55 PM
great post Saintdrew. Thanks for putting it into perspective for the average fan.

KNIXX46
08-21-2010, 02:03 AM
yea nola messed up...they shoulda kept him. what if cp3 gets injured again? even if he doesn't, he's most likely outta there...

BIGBREED
08-22-2010, 07:01 PM
Being a Hornets fan, I can elaborate for you guys....

Before I go into my opinion, I'll reiterate what someone said earlier in this thread, and that's we shouldn't be discussing Chris Paul. He is of no consequence, and has 2 years remaining on his contract. He's got no say in what he does, and IF he was to be traded, the offer from whatever team would have to be extremely great for the Hornets.

Now, do I think the trade Collison trade was a mistake? I think it's too early to say anything, honestly. If everyone on the Hornets roster stays healthy, then you have a guaranteed playoff team IMO.

But, the Collison trade was just a small bit of what's to come. The Hornets are gearing up for a huge 2011 offseason --- or maybe a big move at the trade deadline, probably concerning Peja Stojakovic.

What you'll see next offseason is David West with a player option. I've heard Dell Demps sat down with West and told him that they are including him for their long-term plans. Paul & West are really good friends I think, at least from what I read/hear. And if you follow the NBA, Paul was upset about the Hornets trading Tyson Chandler. I think that was the beginning of the "Chris Paul wanting to be traded" fiasco earlier this summer. And the icing on the cake was the Miami trio getting together.

David West will want a new contract extension, with more money obviously. His contract right now is very affordable considering he's a 2 time All-Star. And you have to figure that we'll also sign Marcus Thornton to a new deal. We will have Emeka Okafor on the books for 4 more season as well. If the Hornets let West walk and get a new contract, then you can bet Paul will become more vocal about his unhappiness about the team.

So....I do think the Collison trade could lead to bigger things with our team. But when we made this deal, we essentially set in stone a future lineup of:

PG- Chris Paul
SG- Marcus Thornton
SF- Trevor Ariza
PF- David West
C- Emeka Okafor
6th Man- Peja Stojakovic

^ That's a decent lineup in the NBA. It's a lot better than this:

PG- Chris Paul
SG- James Posey
SF- Peja Stojakovic
PF- David West
C- Emeka Okafor
6th Man- Morris Peterson

The Hornets front office should be considered gamblers because that's what we're doing with the Collison trade and hoping Chris Paul stays. I think we win between 43-50 games this season IF everyone stays healthy.

Thats the way to carry all of our views{BIGBREED,patricksway,nola33,exc..} into another form and represent! :clap:

{MY MAN!}

heathonater
08-22-2010, 07:36 PM
not really, considering paul has 2-3 more years on his contract, and has little leverage for a trade right now.