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beasted86
08-14-2010, 12:30 PM
The media wasted 7 years in resources of non-stop hyping one young player as the best in the NBA, and soon to be greatest of ALL time, only for LeBron to fall short, and now they've found their new project: Kevin Durant.

How the media is so quick to hype the next young phenom is a little sickening and disrespectful. They insist on applying this "instant dominance" shtick to every young player and heralding them the greatest, but it does an injustice to all the great players who had to work hard and grind to reach an MVP or championship level and having all that work pay off with a title. Players like Jordan, Isiah, Hakeem, Shaq, and others I grew up watching put up Hall of Fame worthy numbers in their first 3-4 seasons and didn't receive this disgusting level of fan jockeying, and weren't crowned king until they finally won several years later.

What annoys me most is Durant seems like a humble guy who doesn't have these bold expectations or anything like that, but the media is doing this anyway, which makes me sort of wish he doesn't succeed just to continue to prove them wrong and hope they will stop doing this with every young player.

Aapox
08-14-2010, 12:36 PM
Espn

Hangtime
08-14-2010, 12:39 PM
It's a star driven sport. Gotta keep ridin the wave.

SF-GS-SJ408
08-14-2010, 12:41 PM
Wait... what? You don't think 21 year old scoring champ Kevin Durant is one of the best players in the NBA? He may not be THE best yet but I don't know where you are going with Lebron failing he has exceeded expectations.... I guess averaging 28/7/7 for your first 7 years, 2 MVPS all while playing 1st team all NBA defense is failing expectations..........

Raoul Duke
08-14-2010, 12:49 PM
I think it's refreshing.

For the last three or four years, every time Lebron has done anything on a basketball court, there are a hundred talking heads saying "he just does that better than anyone else, ever!". Like last season he was blocking a lotta shots, and sports journalists were actually saying that he was the best shot blocker they'd ever seen. Seriously?

It just pisses me off. It's like when you watch football and Favre is playing, and the announcers just cannot shut up about how much they love him. "Thats just Bret Favre being Bret Favre!" Gee, you don't say. Who the hell else is he supposed to be.

GeekInThePink
08-14-2010, 12:52 PM
Wow this is the dumbest thing I've ever read on this website

thescore53
08-14-2010, 01:00 PM
i remember the Vince carter days. man ESPN was on his balls like no tomorrow.

Knick4Knack
08-14-2010, 01:00 PM
which makes me sort of wish he doesn't succeed just to continue to prove them wrong and hope they will stop doing this with every young player.

Truly pathetic. Why would you wish for another person's lack of success? :facepalm:

beasted86
08-14-2010, 01:01 PM
Wait... what? You don't think 21 year old scoring champ Kevin Durant is one of the best players in the NBA? He may not be THE best yet but I don't know where you are going with Lebron failing he has exceeded expectations.... I guess averaging 28/7/7 for your first 7 years, 2 MVPS all while playing 1st team all NBA defense is failing expectations..........

I think the main problem is there are a lot of people who know jack squat about NBA basketball history.

When some of these reporters write about LeBron or Durant, or whoever doing "such & such" the problem is.... they report this news to the viewer almost to make it seem like it hasn't been done before.

Well there might be a special footnote that applies to LeBron or Durant in the "youngest" category, but otherwise there are litterally about 60-80 guys who have averaged at least 28/7 with varying assists in a season. That's what kind of annoys me... with many of them on a higher efficiency than they are doing it now... and barely any of them did it in a season they won the championship in. So unless the player wins a championship while averaging those numbers, it's not so special to me. There's no need to constantly harp on my TV or computer screen this non-stop, day in day out talk about how great this guy is.

Minimal
08-14-2010, 01:01 PM
I think it's refreshing.

For the last three or four years, every time Lebron has done anything on a basketball court, there are a hundred talking heads saying "he just does that better than anyone else, ever!". Like last season he was blocking a lotta shots, and sports journalists were actually saying that he was the best shot blocker they'd ever seen. Seriously?

It just pisses me off. It's like when you watch football and Favre is playing, and the announcers just cannot shut up about how much they love him. "Thats just Bret Favre being Bret Favre!" Gee, you don't say. Who the hell else is he supposed to be.
Em LeBron is pretty damn great blockshotter, just look this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsjv1NG6EdU
But I agree media creates too much hype about those kind of players.

Raidaz4Life
08-14-2010, 01:02 PM
And yet Lebron is still discussed 10000000x more in the media than KD.

thescore53
08-14-2010, 01:02 PM
its weird cause they only like high scoring wing players. all jeff avg 23 11 last year. and they dont give a ****. but they have to change things up and put guys like evans and Jennings on nat tv when werent suppose to have any

Raoul Duke
08-14-2010, 01:04 PM
Em LeBron is pretty damn great blockshotter, just look this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsjv1NG6EdU
But I agree media creates too much hype about those kind of players.

Yeah, man. Lebron is great at everything he does on a basketball court. But saying he is the best shotblocker of all time? Please. Not even of his generation. I'm all for giving credit where it's due, but he doesn't do everything better than everybody else.

smith&wesson
08-14-2010, 01:06 PM
its nice that someone other then lebron is finally getting some love. its refreshing.

and guess what, durant is worthy of it. he is that good.

thescore53
08-14-2010, 01:13 PM
The media wasted 7 years in resources of non-stop hyping one young player as the best in the NBA, and soon to be greatest of ALL time, only for LeBron to fall short, and now they've found their new project: Kevin Durant.

How the media is so quick to hype the next young phenom is a little sickening and disrespectful. They insist on applying this "instant dominance" shtick to every young player and heralding them the greatest, but it does an injustice to all the great players who had to work hard and grind to reach an MVP or championship level and having all that work pay off with a title. Players like Jordan, Isiah, Hakeem, Shaq, and others I grew up watching put up Hall of Fame worthy numbers in their first 3-4 seasons and didn't receive this disgusting level of fan jockeying, and weren't crowned king until they finally won several years later.

What annoys me most is Durant seems like a humble guy who doesn't have these bold expectations or anything like that, but the media is doing this anyway, which makes me sort of wish he doesn't succeed just to continue to prove them wrong and hope they will stop doing this with every young player.

:facepalm: omg

Avenged
08-14-2010, 01:16 PM
You're a TM man, come on.

Lebron is still considered the best and will be.

Durant though, is very young and has a lot of potential to be on the same level. He's already shown lots of promise.

SF-GS-SJ408
08-14-2010, 01:18 PM
:facepalm: omg

Oh, god. I missed that part I stopped reading. Wow some people have their personal agendas way fu--ed up. People only like to see what they wanna see, he probably thinks D Wade is better than Lebron too.

Rapsjaysleafs
08-14-2010, 01:21 PM
Sorry

Everyone start talking about Lebron again to make everything better!

beasted86
08-14-2010, 01:22 PM
its nice that someone other then lebron is finally getting some love. its refreshing.

and guess what, durant is worthy of it. he is that good.

My thing is I HATED it even when they were doing it with LeBron (if I haven't made that clear).

I don't have any problem giving respect where it is due. Durant is a very good player and he had a great season... my issue is you read an NBA article or listen to some analysts, and they will almost lead you to believe he's guaranteed the next 5 MVPs and is a sure bet to start racking up championships soon.

DoubleDragon
08-14-2010, 01:24 PM
which makes me sort of wish he doesn't succeed just to continue to prove them wrong and hope they will stop doing this with every young player.

Truly pathetic. Why would you wish for another person's lack of success? :facepalm:

Gotta agree with this:facepalm:
yeah KD, you should fail, regardless of your obvious talent, youth and amazing humbleness. That'll show ESPN.....

huh?

It is pathetic. Nice call knick4knack:clap:

beasted86
08-14-2010, 01:28 PM
:facepalm: omg

What's wrong with that. I don't purposely root against anyone that's not playing against my team...

But everyone must admit they like to root for the underdog that the media hasn't jumped on their bandwagon. Everyone loves to see the ESPN puppets fail at their predictions. I did the same thing with LeBron.

And everyone is going to for sure root against my Heat team because they want to see ESPN fail at predictions again.

WITZ
08-14-2010, 01:35 PM
They hopped off queen James because u can't be the best and not even be the number one option on the team. They hyped him up because he was headed that direction but I guess he got scared because it was to much pressure and needed to join a team with 2 other allstars.

COBY KARL
08-14-2010, 01:37 PM
The point of this thread is sickening...

beasted86
08-14-2010, 01:39 PM
They hopped off queen James because u can't be the best and not even be the number one option on the team. They hyped him up because he was headed that direction but I guess he got scared because it was to much pressure and needed to join a team with 2 other allstars.

So are they going to just keep hopping from jock to jock?

The media needs to just keep it simple: hype the champ.

Kobe deserves all the respect and hype right now. He's the reigning best player in the NBA... Let Kevin Durant keep earning his respect over time and prove his worth in this league. They should have done the same with LeBron instead of stuffing him down our throat.

Hellcrooner
08-14-2010, 01:48 PM
The media wasted 7 years in resources of non-stop hyping one young player as the best in the NBA, and soon to be greatest of ALL time, only for LeBron to fall short, and now they've found their new project: Kevin Durant.

How the media is so quick to hype the next young phenom is a little sickening and disrespectful. They insist on applying this "instant dominance" shtick to every young player and heralding them the greatest, but it does an injustice to all the great players who had to work hard and grind to reach an MVP or championship level and having all that work pay off with a title. Players like Jordan, Isiah, Hakeem, Shaq, and others I grew up watching put up Hall of Fame worthy numbers in their first 3-4 seasons and didn't receive this disgusting level of fan jockeying, and weren't crowned king until they finally won several years later.

What annoys me most is Durant seems like a humble guy who doesn't have these bold expectations or anything like that, but the media is doing this anyway, which makes me sort of wish he doesn't succeed just to continue to prove them wrong and hope they will stop doing this with every young player.
Sorry man but they chosing a youngster and ride his jock and hype him to the max started with NIke and Sonny Vaccaros lplan to hyaepe MJ.

lakers4sho
08-14-2010, 01:58 PM
Durant is the new poster boy of the NBA, face it.

avrpatsfan
08-14-2010, 01:59 PM
Says a Heat fan :facepalm:

topdog
08-14-2010, 02:01 PM
The media wasted 7 years in resources of non-stop hyping one young player as the best in the NBA, and soon to be greatest of ALL time, only for LeBron to fall short, and now they've found their new project: Kevin Durant.

How the media is so quick to hype the next young phenom is a little sickening and disrespectful. They insist on applying this "instant dominance" shtick to every young player and heralding them the greatest, but it does an injustice to all the great players who had to work hard and grind to reach an MVP or championship level and having all that work pay off with a title. Players like Jordan, Isiah, Hakeem, Shaq, and others I grew up watching put up Hall of Fame worthy numbers in their first 3-4 seasons and didn't receive this disgusting level of fan jockeying, and weren't crowned king until they finally won several years later.

What annoys me most is Durant seems like a humble guy who doesn't have these bold expectations or anything like that, but the media is doing this anyway, which makes me sort of wish he doesn't succeed just to continue to prove them wrong and hope they will stop doing this with every young player.

Let's be honest here: the only reason this bothers you now is because Lebron is your hero now that he's in Miami and you don't like seeing him knocked off his perch.

I've never liked the whole hype thing, especially with Lebron, but this time around I would attribute it to Durrant being the league's "good guy" superstar - the one who's not the cold calculating Kobe or turncoat Lebron.

beasted86
08-14-2010, 02:17 PM
It doesn't bother me at all. I am glad to see the Heat hated on.

The tradition "WAS" to give the majority of the hype to the future hall of famer who is still dominating and winning championships. That would be Kobe right now. Give your props and such to LeBron, but that's where it stops... he's not the King.

Before it was Jordan. You give your respect and admiration for the up and coming star in Grant Hill who is dropping nasty numbers and winning games but you don't don him King before his time is due. Somwhere along the line the media flipped on that last part, and dubbed guys the greatest before the championships.

It was annoying with LeBron for the past 5 years, and while I enjoyed watching Durant and rooting for him last season, I can already see the media loading up this summer for a new "King" with Durant, and it's annoying me. They need to stop this style of reporting. Kevin Durant is a great player and he will earn his respect, you don't need to thrust him down our throat.

iggypop123
08-14-2010, 02:20 PM
the media wasted 7 years in resources of non-stop hyping one young player as the best in the nba, and soon to be greatest of all time, only for lebron to fall short, and now they've found their new project: Kevin durant.

How the media is so quick to hype the next young phenom is a little sickening and disrespectful. They insist on applying this "instant dominance" shtick to every young player and heralding them the greatest, but it does an injustice to all the great players who had to work hard and grind to reach an mvp or championship level and having all that work pay off with a title. Players like jordan, isiah, hakeem, shaq, and others i grew up watching put up hall of fame worthy numbers in their first 3-4 seasons and didn't receive this disgusting level of fan jockeying, and weren't crowned king until they finally won several years later.

What annoys me most is durant seems like a humble guy who doesn't have these bold expectations or anything like that, but the media is doing this anyway, which makes me sort of wish he doesn't succeed just to continue to prove them wrong and hope they will stop doing this with every young player.

umad?

THE_LOGO
08-14-2010, 02:23 PM
My thing is I HATED it even when they were doing it with LeBron (if I haven't made that clear).

I don't have any problem giving respect where it is due. Durant is a very good player and he had a great season... my issue is you read an NBA article or listen to some analysts, and they will almost lead you to believe he's guaranteed the next 5 MVPs and is a sure bet to start racking up championships soon.

I don't know what articles you've been reading or shows you've been watching but the most sickening is the Heat being proclaimed champs even before playing a game. How about that? That doesn't disgust you? Are you just trying to sway the hate away from the Heat? That's all this seems to me.

Comparing Lebron and KDs situation is apples and oranges. Lebron jumped on the bandwagon on his own hype wave. Instead of just letting his game do the talking, there's too many sideshows he creates. I'm not against having fun but stick to one and let that be your thing. I mean do your powder thing before the game and leave it at that (which of course was stolen from MJ). No, he has all his different stunts with his team before the game starts such as the team posing and him taking a picture. Even Ocho Cinco doesn't do as many celebrations. Sure Lebron is gifted but he's been hyped before he's even played a game, just like your Heat team. KD is getting his due for being the scoring champ. That, I would say, is newsworthy given the competition he had, and he's still a kid. So he deserves the hype he's getting now. And even then, KD has stayed humble unlike some who turned into arrogant pricks. Even Bosh is now arrogant for having won...NOTHING.

To sum it up, yes I too am sick with the media hyping up the next big thing but perhaps you should start with your Heat. They're the biggest hype mongers my generation has ever seen. You start with Wade that tries to insert his own name into best in league conversations with Kobe and Lebron. That's sickening. Let others put you in the conversation instead of trying to squeeze yourself in something that you don't belong in. Then you have Lebron with his "Decision." Enough have been said about that so you can read the other billion Lebron hate threads. And lastly, there's Bosh, who puffs his chest out like the previous two like he belongs there. As far as I'm concerned he should only be getting a "Mike Miller" sized coverage with his signing. Only one of your big three is a sure bet for the HOF, which is Lebron. Wade has a good chance if he does not keep getting injured, and I hope he doesn't. Unlike you who I can't believe any person would wish will ill on anyone, especially a humble kid like KD. Then there's Bosh who will be lucky if he gets invited to sweep the floors after Lebron's HOF induction.

abe_froman
08-14-2010, 02:24 PM
awwww lol ,no this is funny

its the machine,it was happening before espn.but they made it worse(nike more so *ahem*),they will keep doing it.anointing everyone as the next...,until someone lives up to it and doesnt crack/fall short.they're desperate.one of the main irks i have about it is when they do it before the player has done anything(the lebron is better than mj was started back when he was 16 lol).lets them play,see rises to the top before proclaiming them as the top

dre1990
08-14-2010, 02:29 PM
It's better than the "miami heat this, miami heat that" ****.

THE_LOGO
08-14-2010, 02:32 PM
It doesn't bother me at all. I am glad to see the Heat hated on.

The tradition "WAS" to give the majority of the hype to the future hall of famer who is still dominating and winning championships. That would be Kobe right now. Give your props and such to LeBron, but that's where it stops... he's not the King.

Before it was Jordan. You give your respect and admiration for the up and coming star in Grant Hill who is dropping nasty numbers and winning games but you don't don him King before his time is due. Somwhere along the line the media flipped on that last part, and dubbed guys the greatest before the championships.

It was annoying with LeBron for the past 5 years, and while I enjoyed watching Durant and rooting for him last season, I can already see the media loading up this summer for a new "King" with Durant, and it's annoying me. They need to stop this style of reporting. Kevin Durant is a great player and he will earn his respect, you don't need to thrust him down our throat.

Like your Heat team has ben thrusted, excuse me, SHOVED, down OUR throats?

Sixerlover
08-14-2010, 02:32 PM
What else do you want them to talk about? The NBA more than any other sport is a star driven league. They have to hype the stars

beasted86
08-14-2010, 02:45 PM
Like your Heat team has ben thrusted, excuse me, SHOVED, down OUR throats?

The difference is I think the negative and positive press has been in equal ammounts.

Not everybody is jumping on the bandwagon to don the Heat the greatest team of all time, while I would say more than 50% of the media had this stupid fan jockeying trait with LeBron the past 5 years ever since he got to the Finals.

But if the Heat win, I'd guess the media would sway harshly to bandwagoning the Heat. I've lost a lot of respect for many NBA media outlets in general.

Hellcrooner
08-14-2010, 02:45 PM
What else do you want them to talk about? The NBA more than any other sport is a star driven league. They have to hype the stars

It uesd to be team driven before MJ.

KNIXX46
08-14-2010, 02:53 PM
The media wasted 7 years in resources of non-stop hyping one young player as the best in the NBA, and soon to be greatest of ALL time, only for LeBron to fall short, and now they've found their new project: Kevin Durant.

How the media is so quick to hype the next young phenom is a little sickening and disrespectful. They insist on applying this "instant dominance" shtick to every young player and heralding them the greatest, but it does an injustice to all the great players who had to work hard and grind to reach an MVP or championship level and having all that work pay off with a title. Players like Jordan, Isiah, Hakeem, Shaq, and others I grew up watching put up Hall of Fame worthy numbers in their first 3-4 seasons and didn't receive this disgusting level of fan jockeying, and weren't crowned king until they finally won several years later.

What annoys me most is Durant seems like a humble guy who doesn't have these bold expectations or anything like that, but the media is doing this anyway, which makes me sort of wish he doesn't succeed just to continue to prove them wrong and hope they will stop doing this with every young player.

why hate on the kid because he's nice? he deserves the shine...

knickfan33
08-14-2010, 02:55 PM
in just a few yers kobe,lebron,wade,mello will all be 30... who do you think is gonna run this league...Durant!

Hellcrooner
08-14-2010, 03:00 PM
in just a few yers kobe,lebron,wade,mello will all be 30... who do you think is gonna run this league...Durant!

But then when durant is on his prime espn will hype whoever kid in his 2 season.

DamnGoat
08-14-2010, 03:04 PM
It uesd to be team driven before MJ.
Magic and Larry say hi.

Hellcrooner
08-14-2010, 03:34 PM
Magic and Larry say hi.

THere was roome enough for the Wilkes, Mcaddo, Worhty, Kitcp and the mchale parish, ainge, d Jonhsonm st etc etc.
It aslakers vs celtics al the time never Magic vs Bird

shep33
08-14-2010, 03:37 PM
The Heat have gotten more coverage than anybody... heck the Lakers won back to back championships and didn't get that much attention in comparison to the Heat.

The other thing is, so what if Durant gets a lilttle coverage... he's pretty damn good isn't he? He seems pretty humble, so why not? KD is the future of this league so he should get some attention.

effen5
08-14-2010, 03:49 PM
ironic thread is ironic

beasted86
08-14-2010, 03:54 PM
The Heat have gotten more coverage than anybody... heck the Lakers won back to back championships and didn't get that much attention in comparison to the Heat.

The other thing is, so what if Durant gets a lilttle coverage... he's pretty damn good isn't he? He seems pretty humble, so why not? KD is the future of this league so he should get some attention.

Well I know this seems premature all together... this topic is more in line with what I see starting to happen, because it hasn't gotten as bad as LeBron was YET.

But I recall seeing a bunch of analysts sitting and talking nodding their heads when one clown said there are only a few teams that can take out the Lakers in the NBA, and Kevin Durant's Thunder is one of them. I'm looking at the screen like :facepalm: (don't remember whether it was ESPN or ABC).

Then there's the whole Kevin Durant MVP voting by a landslide with Kobe a distant second. All these things are just early signs before it gets much worse.

SouthSideRookie
08-14-2010, 06:50 PM
Wait... what? You don't think 21 year old scoring champ Kevin Durant is one of the best players in the NBA? He may not be THE best yet but I don't know where you are going with Lebron failing he has exceeded expectations.... I guess averaging 28/7/7 for your first 7 years, 2 MVPS all while playing 1st team all NBA defense is failing expectations..........

Don't you remember the hype about Lebron coming out of high school, as if it was the second coming of Jesus, so when you take that into consideration, yes it's been a failure so far, doesn't mean it's right for people to view it like that.

Jewelz0376
08-14-2010, 06:59 PM
Can some1 explain to me what makes Durant that much different than Melo besides the fact that he's younger???

jmtapia
08-14-2010, 07:05 PM
players create their own hype with their play...

xbrackattackx
08-14-2010, 07:07 PM
op is mad. lol.

evadatam5150
08-14-2010, 07:26 PM
Wait... what? You don't think 21 year old scoring champ Kevin Durant is one of the best players in the NBA? He may not be THE best yet but I don't know where you are going with Lebron failing he has exceeded expectations.... I guess averaging 28/7/7 for your first 7 years, 2 MVPS all while playing 1st team all NBA defense is failing expectations..........

Let's face facts, he only won the scoring title by default since Bron shut it down with something like ten games to go.. Sure, still a pretty nice feet but let's be honest here, what else does Durant do besides score and choke in pressure situations.. ?? He's not the best now, and who's to say what his future might bring, but using the scoring title as some kind of leverage on determining his greatness is a bit far fetched.. In order to be the best one should be able to play both sides of the court.. Durant, at this point, doesn't..

Mplsman
08-14-2010, 07:53 PM
Much deserved attention. It's better than watching the bron bron show all the time.

JJ_JKidd
08-14-2010, 08:13 PM
The media wasted 7 years in resources of non-stop hyping one young player as the best in the NBA, and soon to be greatest of ALL time, only for LeBron to fall short, and now they've found their new project: Kevin Durant.

How the media is so quick to hype the next young phenom is a little sickening and disrespectful. They insist on applying this "instant dominance" shtick to every young player and heralding them the greatest, but it does an injustice to all the great players who had to work hard and grind to reach an MVP or championship level and having all that work pay off with a title. Players like Jordan, Isiah, Hakeem, Shaq, and others I grew up watching put up Hall of Fame worthy numbers in their first 3-4 seasons and didn't receive this disgusting level of fan jockeying, and weren't crowned king until they finally won several years later.

What annoys me most is Durant seems like a humble guy who doesn't have these bold expectations or anything like that, but the media is doing this anyway, which makes me sort of wish he doesn't succeed just to continue to prove them wrong and hope they will stop doing this with every young player.

Ive been saying this DuFake hype since last year. Case in point: When the Lakers were struggling at the end of the regular season and the Thunder were on their way to their first playoffs while Durant had his first scoring title, F'in ESPN commentators said that Durant has already overtaken Kobe.

When the Thunder tied the series with the Lakers, that crap was again said over and over again.

But Kobe won his 5th against the Celts them b!tc3S suddenly made a 360-degree turn and said "Kobe Bryant is still the best player today, hands down."

Talk about HYPE! Let him win consistent scoring titles first, then consistent playoff and playoff series wins, then a Championship before anything else.

Remember TMac? Multiple scoring titles then what?

TO to the CHI
08-14-2010, 08:34 PM
Wow this is the dumbest thing I've ever read on this website

I stopped reading the thread after this post so eloquently summed up the situation. Did every Heat fan lose 25 IQ points in the excitement of the free agent signings?

USMCLaker
08-14-2010, 08:45 PM
Thanks for this thread it gave me a refreshing laugh.

As soon as I saw the words "Kevin Durant" and "Hype" in the same sentence I thought this is going to be fun, lets see what the Heat fans are up to.

phi2134
08-14-2010, 08:47 PM
Sorry

Everyone start talking about Lebron again to make everything better!

:clap:

bbcmillionaire
08-14-2010, 08:52 PM
Lol damn thats a Lot of hate, KD is a new breed that's refreshing, rose, durant,Roy,d howard, these young allstars are going to get the media attention because they are so likable and talented

smith&wesson
08-14-2010, 08:53 PM
My thing is I HATED it even when they were doing it with LeBron (if I haven't made that clear).

I don't have any problem giving respect where it is due. Durant is a very good player and he had a great season... my issue is you read an NBA article or listen to some analysts, and they will almost lead you to believe he's guaranteed the next 5 MVPs and is a sure bet to start racking up championships soon.


i feel you but they did it for 7 years with lebron, im happy they finally moved on even its no better to glorify durant. at least they will probably do it for about a year before they move one to somone else. with lebron it was 7 years straight! i was sick of it.

tredigs
08-14-2010, 09:06 PM
Can some1 explain to me what makes Durant that much different than Melo besides the fact that he's younger???

Scores more with higher efficiency, averages more rebounds/blocks/steals, and just generally plays much better defense than 'Melo. He's not injury prone, and is one of the deadliest 3pt shooters from the SF position to come around in a long time. Basically, he's just better in virtually every way, should only improve this season, and the fact that he's 21 and playing for a potential perennial contender makes it a pretty compelling story.

TheGsw
08-14-2010, 09:12 PM
KD is the truth. LeBron gets all the hype.

ChiSox219
08-14-2010, 09:14 PM
Durant has the best chance to be the new GOAT of anyone currently in the league.

There is not enough hype, IMO, he had a fantastic season last year and should only get better.

tredigs
08-14-2010, 09:17 PM
KD is the truth. LeBron gets all the hype.

Lebron deserves all the hype he gets, the guy is going to go down as one of the ten greatest to ever play the game. KD also deserves any hype he's getting, he's ridiculously good. No need to be a jealous hater just because a kid is being talked about by the sports world (to the OP). If anything, he has not gotten enough hype imo.

TheGsw
08-14-2010, 09:19 PM
Durant has the best chance to be the new GOAT of anyone currently in the league.

There is not enough hype, IMO, he had a fantastic season last year and should only get better

I dont know if he has the best chances of being the GOAT currently in the league, thats Kobe, but he definitely has the best chance to be the best player in the league.

MacFitz92
08-14-2010, 09:21 PM
What it sounds like is, you're mad because Durant is taking away attention from what's going on in Miami. Which it isn't...

Also, Kevin Durant is one of the top players in the league regardless, and he's 21, what do you expect?

TheGsw
08-14-2010, 09:23 PM
Lebron deserves all the hype he gets, the guy is going to go down as one of the ten greatest to ever play the game. KD also deserves any hype he's getting, he's ridiculously good. No need to be a jealous hater just because a kid is being talked about by the sports world (to the OP). If anything, he has not gotten enough hype imo.

Im not hating on Durant? haha
Durant is one of my favorites.

tredigs
08-14-2010, 09:42 PM
Im not hating on Durant? haha
Durant is one of my favorites.

No I know - I was talking to the original poster with that part of the comment. That's what I meant by "(to the OP)". He's one of mine, too. After the kid in your avatar.

TheGsw
08-14-2010, 09:44 PM
No I know - I was talking to the original poster with that part of the comment. That's what I meant by "(to the OP)". He's one of mine, too. After the kid in your avatar.

Oh my bad haha

Sandman
08-14-2010, 10:03 PM
What it sounds like is, you're mad because Durant is taking away attention from what's going on in Miami. Which it isn't...

:clap:

elizur
08-14-2010, 10:10 PM
Durant has the best chance to be the new GOAT of anyone currently in the league.

There is not enough hype, IMO, he had a fantastic season last year and should only get better.

Um.. Lebron can still be the best in the league. He is the best basketball player in the league. His skills are ridiculous. He deserves all hype he gets.

On another note, I hate Lebron.

ChiSox219
08-14-2010, 10:29 PM
Um.. Lebron can still be the best in the league. He is the best basketball player in the league. His skills are ridiculous. He deserves all hype he gets.

On another note, I hate Lebron.

GOAT= Greatest of all time

Lebron can never be that.

Avenged
08-14-2010, 10:51 PM
I actually think Kobe has the best chance out of anyone in the league based on his resume, as of right now. Durant has a lot of promise, but that's about it. Lebron could give it a shot but he still has a lot to do.

netsgiantsyanks
08-14-2010, 10:57 PM
The media wasted 7 years in resources of non-stop hyping one young player as the best in the NBA, and soon to be greatest of ALL time, only for LeBron to fall short, and now they've found their new project: Kevin Durant.

How the media is so quick to hype the next young phenom is a little sickening and disrespectful. They insist on applying this "instant dominance" shtick to every young player and heralding them the greatest, but it does an injustice to all the great players who had to work hard and grind to reach an MVP or championship level and having all that work pay off with a title. Players like Jordan, Isiah, Hakeem, Shaq, and others I grew up watching put up Hall of Fame worthy numbers in their first 3-4 seasons and didn't receive this disgusting level of fan jockeying, and weren't crowned king until they finally won several years later.

What annoys me most is Durant seems like a humble guy who doesn't have these bold expectations or anything like that, but the media is doing this anyway, which makes me sort of wish he doesn't succeed just to continue to prove them wrong and hope they will stop doing this with every young player.

leave this forum.right now. that is the worst thing i have ever read in ANY forum.

ldawg
08-14-2010, 11:00 PM
Lebron deserves all the hype he gets, the guy is going to go down as one of the ten greatest to ever play the game. KD also deserves any hype he's getting, he's ridiculously good. No need to be a jealous hater just because a kid is being talked about by the sports world (to the OP). If anything, he has not gotten enough hype imo.

You are wrong about Lebron, he was going to go down as one of the ten greatest to ever play the game. He is more of top 50 playing behind Wade. However he has the most Talent of any player in the game today but he is not the most successful. He is surpass by a harder workers but he has the potential to be the best. But he now have to Limit his game for the success of the team. If he don't he will be a distraction or things would get ugly in Miami. My guess he will avg 23/6/4 over his 6 yr in Miami unless Wade get injured.

lakerfan3118
08-15-2010, 12:25 AM
With all due respect, Kevin Durant and the OKC Thunder are still, dare I say, underrated. For all this talk about the media 'hyping' him as 'the best of the nba', how many nationally televised games does he have this year? 15, and a large majority of them place the Thunder as strict undercards. Lasy year, how many televised games did he have? 3. And Durant is 'hyped' by the media?

Ultimately, I sat through this offseason having to wade through my fair share of Lebron anticipation montages, simulations, graphics and when Durant signed his long term extension we got from the media...a mere afterthought. Silence. And, again, Durant is hyped by the media?

Durant is a 21 year old star that led his Thunder team through the Western Conference as a 50 win team-- and got little credit throughout the year. While the Miami Heat sputtered in the Eastern Conference, Oklahoma City was one of the best teams in the NBA, got to its first playoff berth to nothing more than a raise of an eyebrow. They give the Lakers a run for the money and it is only then that people notice.

Kevin Durant won't sell tickets by himself. Oklahoma City will never be a favorite becaause it's a small market and it's...well, Oklahoma. But Durant is arguably one of the top 5 players in the league, and one could make the argument he is in the top 3. See how many people take that argument running and then come back and tell me if he is 'overrated'.

MGB
08-15-2010, 12:38 AM
is this "heat fans make dumb threads day" or something?

IBleedPurple
08-15-2010, 12:47 AM
I didn't see Melo getting the same hype as Durant when he was about the same age and playing just as well.

tredigs
08-15-2010, 12:51 AM
I didn't see Melo getting the same hype as Durant when he was about the same age and playing just as well.

Huh, really? He was hugely hyped (and not playing as good), but there was also D. Wade and some other kid from Akron stealing a bit of his Thunder.

Am I the only one missing all this hype? I can't recall seeing a thing on Durant on the sports networks recently. I watched the Team USA exhibition game against themselves where he dominated everyone on the court and took down the "MVP" award, but that's about it...

KmB728
08-15-2010, 12:52 AM
The media wasted 7 years in resources of non-stop hyping one young player as the best in the NBA, and soon to be greatest of ALL time, only for LeBron to fall short, and now they've found their new project: Kevin Durant.

How the media is so quick to hype the next young phenom is a little sickening and disrespectful. They insist on applying this "instant dominance" shtick to every young player and heralding them the greatest, but it does an injustice to all the great players who had to work hard and grind to reach an MVP or championship level and having all that work pay off with a title. Players like Jordan, Isiah, Hakeem, Shaq, and others I grew up watching put up Hall of Fame worthy numbers in their first 3-4 seasons and didn't receive this disgusting level of fan jockeying, and weren't crowned king until they finally won several years later.

What annoys me most is Durant seems like a humble guy who doesn't have

these bold expectations or anything like that, but the media is doing this anyway, which makes me sort of wish he doesn't succeed just to continue to

prove them wrong and hope they will stop doing this with every young


player.

U Mad?

lakerfan3118
08-15-2010, 04:15 PM
I didn't see Melo getting the same hype as Durant when he was about the same age and playing just as well.

There was once a time when people made the argument that Carmelo was more valuable than Lebron James because his medicore Nuggets team made the playoffs in the first few years of their careers, but I digress.

R cool J
08-15-2010, 04:27 PM
The media wasted 7 years in resources of non-stop hyping one young player as the best in the NBA, and soon to be greatest of ALL time, only for LeBron to fall short, and now they've found their new project: Kevin Durant.

How the media is so quick to hype the next young phenom is a little sickening and disrespectful. They insist on applying this "instant dominance" shtick to every young player and heralding them the greatest, but it does an injustice to all the great players who had to work hard and grind to reach an MVP or championship level and having all that work pay off with a title. Players like Jordan, Isiah, Hakeem, Shaq, and others I grew up watching put up Hall of Fame worthy numbers in their first 3-4 seasons and didn't receive this disgusting level of fan jockeying, and weren't crowned king until they finally won several years later.

What annoys me most is Durant seems like a humble guy who doesn't have these bold expectations or anything like that, but the media is doing this anyway, which makes me sort of wish he doesn't succeed just to continue to prove them wrong and hope they will stop doing this with every young player.

Happens all the time...ask Kobe

KnicksorBust
08-15-2010, 05:58 PM
There was once a time when people made the argument that Carmelo was more valuable than Lebron James because his medicore Nuggets team made the playoffs in the first few years of their careers, but I digress.

Carmelo took the early lead. Then Wade blew by everybody in 06. Then it's basically been LeBron since.

Kevin Durant hype is no where near sickening. It's a shame the Thunder are going to screw it up.

tredigs
08-15-2010, 06:00 PM
Carmelo took the early lead. Then Wade blew by everybody in 06. Then it's basically been LeBron since.

Kevin Durant hype is no where near sickening. It's a shame the Thunder are going to screw it up.

Where's that idea come from?

KnicksorBust
08-15-2010, 06:07 PM
Where's that idea come from?

Another wasted summer where they didn't go out and supply Durant with a real #2 or a real big man. Their young assets are going to start losing their value.

lowdown32
08-15-2010, 06:16 PM
Wow this is the dumbest thing I've ever read on this website

yep

MrfadeawayJB
08-15-2010, 06:16 PM
ESPN should get back on the Mike James bandwagon!

Avenged
08-15-2010, 06:16 PM
Another wasted summer where they didn't go out and supply Durant with a real #2 or a real big man. Their young assets are going to start losing their value.

Not exactly.

Westbrook is already on his way on becoming a top PG (if he isn't already, though he is imo). The Thunder have a lot of young pieces and a solid big in Ibaka.

The thing about this team is that, since they're so young, it's not exactly "waste". They have plenty of time to go considering their best player is only 21 and their 2nd best player is the same age.

masalex1205
08-15-2010, 06:16 PM
so I just want to check, we're hating on a humble, hardworking leader, 21 year old scoring champ?

Ok, just wanted to check...

KnicksorBust
08-15-2010, 06:22 PM
Not exactly.

Westbrook is already on his way on becoming a top PG (if he isn't already, though he is imo). The Thunder have a lot of young pieces and a solid big in Ibaka.

The thing about this team is that, since they're so young, it's not exactly "waste". They have plenty of time to go considering their best player is only 21 and their 2nd best player is the same age.

That's my point exactly. Too many young pieces. I like Westbrook. I like Harden. I like Green. I love Ibaka. That doesn't mean I see any of them as good enough to be a #2 option on a title team. Durant is already there. Why saddle him with these young players who are still trying to figure it out? Westbrook and Green are very close to their ceilings already. Green even slightly regressed. I was saying last offseason that both of them should have been moved. It's a similar situation to me with that of the "Baby Bulls" where people thought they were all just going to keep getting better when really they never had that core of a real #1 player and they hit a wall. Luckily the Thunder have a #1 player and he's already playing to that level. Now get the guy a damn #2 and fill in the pieces from there.

Avenged
08-15-2010, 06:26 PM
That's my point exactly. Too many young pieces. I like Westbrook. I like Harden. I like Green. I love Ibaka. That doesn't mean I see any of them as good enough to be a #2 option on a title team. Durant is already there. Why saddle him with these young players who are still trying to figure it out? Westbrook and Green are very close to their ceilings already. Green even slightly regressed. I was saying last offseason that both of them should have been moved. It's a similar situation to me with that of the "Baby Bulls" where people thought they were all just going to keep getting better when really they never had that core of a real #1 player and they hit a wall. Luckily the Thunder have a #1 player and he's already playing to that level. Now get the guy a damn #2 and fill in the pieces from there.

Westbrook is a #2 option, he's developing nicely and rapidly. The other players are exactly what this team needs, they're solid role players. Every championship team needs good role players to fill their role.

The Bulls didn't have a #1, but Durant is already top 5 in the league and only getting better, same with Westbrook. The Thunder have plenty of time, I actually think they're doing a good job.

Again, since they're a young team, you have to give them time. Westbrook is emerging.

tredigs
08-15-2010, 06:30 PM
Another wasted summer where they didn't go out and supply Durant with a real #2 or a real big man. Their young assets are going to start losing their value.

Young assets losing value? Haha... these dudes are 20-21 years old, they're just on the verge of beginning to fully tap into their value.

Let's break down what the Thunder lacked last year:
1) A solid rebounding/defensive presence in the block
2) Experience / lack of development of their young talent
3) Reliable perimeter shooting off the bench to help stretch the floor

-They traded up for a (if not the) premier defensive/rebounding/shot-blocking big man in the draft (Aldrich) who is as NBA ready as anyone in that 2010 class being that he played 3 years for a top 5 program.

-Had their first 50 win season, and were rewarded by being able to play the best team in the league in the opening round of the playoffs where they nearly took the Lakers to 7 games; valuable experience for them. They also have Harden + Ibaka going into year two who should both be much more valuable contributers this year. Add to that an elite level PG in Westbrook going into his third year after having a huge 2nd half/playoff series, and you've got the development handled.

-If Harden can find his 3pt stroke with more consistency, then that's all they will need; but they have the insurance of Peterson or Cook coming off the bench now as well. Both smart pickups to help hit the three ball that they were lacking last season.

In short, they couldn't have had a much better summer for how little money they spent (in order to pick up a piece at the trade deadline or sign next summer). Their management is seriously genius, I wouldn't question that teams summer.

Westbrook is nearing D. Rose level offensively at this point, and he is better defensively. The guy is a solid 2nd option. He is going to have a very good year.

KnicksorBust
08-15-2010, 06:31 PM
Westbrook is a #2 option, he's developing nicely and rapidly. The other players are exactly what this team needs, they're solid role players. Every championship team needs good role players to fill their role.

The Bulls didn't have a #1, but Durant is already top 5 in the league and only getting better, same with Westbrook. The Thunder have plenty of time, I actually think they're doing a good job.

Again, since they're a young team, you have to give them time. Westbrook is emerging.

If the Thunder believe that, Kevin Durant will never win a ring.

KnicksorBust
08-15-2010, 06:39 PM
Young assets losing value? Haha... these dudes are 20-21 years old, they're just on the verge of beginning to fully tap into their value.

Let's break down what the Thunder lacked last year:
1) A solid rebounding/defensive presence in the block
2) Experience / lack of development of their young talent
3) Reliable perimeter shooting off the bench to help stretch the floor

-They traded up for a (if not the) premier defensive/rebounding/shot-blocking big man in the draft (Aldrich) who is as NBA ready as anyone in that 2010 class being that he played 3 years for a top 5 program.

-Had their first 50 win season, and were rewarded by being able to play the best team in the league in the opening round of the playoffs where they nearly took the Lakers to 7 games; valuable experience for them. They also have Harden + Ibaka going into year two who should both be much more valuable contributers this year. Add to that an elite level PG in Westbrook going into his third year after having a huge 2nd half/playoff series, and you've got the development handled.

-If Harden can find his 3pt stroke with more consistency, then that's all they will need; but they have the insurance of Peterson or Cook coming off the bench now as well. Both smart pickups to help hit the three ball that they were lacking last season.

In short, they couldn't have had a much better summer for how little money they spent (in order to pick up a piece at the trade deadline or sign next summer). Their management is seriously genius, I wouldn't question that teams summer.

Westbrook is nearing D. Rose level offensively at this point, and he is better defensively. The guy is a solid 2nd option. He is going to have a very good year.

When young assets don't pan out in their first 2-3 years of course they lose value. It happens all the time. The Bulls teams from 5 years ago, The Blazers team from now. How's an Oden and Rudy Fernandez package looking these days? Your first paragraph to convince me about their great offseason was bragging about the #11 pick in the draft. That's grasping at straws already. It's another inexperienced and unproven player on a team that already has too many of those. I'm not putting down any of the players on the team. Durant, Westbrook, Green, Harden, Ibaka, Aldrich...They all have strengths and youth on their side but my mind goes foggy when I try and think of the dynasty that kept the same 6 players together all right out of college. It's not a winning formula.

tredigs
08-15-2010, 06:41 PM
If the Thunder believe that, Kevin Durant will never win a ring.

You're sleeping on Westbrook, he can get to the hoop with ease, dominates other PG's defensively/rebounding wise and is becoming an elite passer.

The Thunder's success is going to be reliant on how ready Ibaka + Aldrich will be to contribute this post-season (defensively, more than anything), and whether or not Harden can make the jump that they're expecting coming into his 2nd year. They don't have to worry about Westbrook playing at an all star level for the foreseeable future, that's pretty much a given at this point.

Avenged
08-15-2010, 06:41 PM
If the Thunder believe that, Kevin Durant will never win a ring.

Durant has a lot of time to go. If the Thunder were to trade for this off-season, who could you have possibly think they could have got with the players they have? They have potential, but not superstar potential. The Thunder would have most likely been off worse had they tried to make any moves.

Westbrook is entering his 3rd year, and if the playoffs are any indication of his future, the kid is going to be really good. He's a great facilitator, averaging 8 assists and can get to the rim at will. He elevated his 17.9 PER to a 24.37 in the playoffs and ranked #1 in PER among point guards in the playoffs.

All this team needs time. It's scary to even think that they're so young and are capable of grabbing the #2 seed out West.

tredigs
08-15-2010, 06:46 PM
When young assets don't pan out in their first 2-3 years of course they lose value. It happens all the time. The Bulls teams from 5 years ago, The Blazers team from now. How's an Oden and Rudy Fernandez package looking these days? Your first paragraph to convince me about their great offseason was bragging about the #11 pick in the draft. That's grasping at straws already. It's another inexperienced and unproven player on a team that already has too many of those. I'm not putting down any of the players on the team. Durant, Westbrook, Green, Harden, Ibaka, Aldrich...They all have strengths and youth on their side but my mind goes foggy when I try and think of the dynasty that kept the same 6 players together all right out of college. It's not a winning formula.

What asset on their team has shown anything but promise, or solid contributions?

KD and Westbrook are better than anyone would have thought (though a lot of people are late to the party on Westbrook), Ibaka is looking like an absolute monster in the paint with his freak athleticism and shot-blocking ability, and Jeff Green is basically Rashard Lewis 2.0.

You're mind is getting foggy because it's never been done like this before. They're creating a new blueprint, and it's pretty amazing to see it all start to come together.

KnicksorBust
08-15-2010, 06:54 PM
You're sleeping on Westbrook, he can get to the hoop with ease, dominates other PG's defensively/rebounding wise and is becoming an elite passer.

The Thunder's success is going to be reliant on how ready Ibaka + Aldrich will be to contribute this post-season (defensively, more than anything), and whether or not Harden can make the jump that they're expecting coming into his 2nd year. They don't have to worry about Westbrook playing at an all star level for the foreseeable future, that's pretty much a given at this point.

Agree to disagree.


Durant has a lot of time to go. If the Thunder were to trade for this off-season, who could you have possibly think they could have got with the players they have? They have potential, but not superstar potential. The Thunder would have most likely been off worse had they tried to make any moves.

Westbrook is entering his 3rd year, and if the playoffs are any indication of his future, the kid is going to be really good. He's a great facilitator, averaging 8 assists and can get to the rim at will. He elevated his 17.9 PER to a 24.37 in the playoffs and ranked #1 in PER among point guards in the playoffs.

All this team needs time. It's scary to even think that they're so young and are capable of grabbing the #2 seed out West.

You are making my case for me. Why hold on to a bunch of solid young players when you can package them and possibly get an All-Star? I think last offseason would have been an opportune time to make a play for Steve Nash, David Lee, Chris Kaman and none of those players would have caused them to mortgage all their young pieces.


What asset on their team has shown anything but promise, or solid contributions?

KD and Westbrook are better than anyone would have thought (though a lot of people are late to the party on Westbrook), Ibaka is looking like an absolute monster in the paint with his freak athleticism and shot-blocking ability, and Jeff Green is basically Rashard Lewis 2.0.

You're mind is getting foggy because it's never been done like this before. They're creating a new blueprint, and it's pretty amazing to see it all start to come together.

Tough sell that they are going to break the mold but I'm impressed with your optimism. And Green has to bring that 3pt shot up a hell of a lot to become Rashard Lewis.

Avenged
08-15-2010, 07:01 PM
You are making my case for me. Why hold on to a bunch of solid young players when you can package them and possibly get an All-Star? I think last offseason would have been an opportune time to make a play for Steve Nash, David Lee, Chris Kaman and none of those players would have caused them to mortgage all their young pieces.

They weren't going to get anyone great with those players.

They are simply just based on potential, and even for potential their ceiling isn't that wide. A team would have to be really dumb to give up an all-star for a couple of good role players.

The Thunder are better off with Westbrook than Lee or Kaman.

There's no way the Thunder would want an old Nash, how much time does he have left? They have Westbrook for that who's much younger.

abe_froman
08-15-2010, 07:03 PM
Agree to disagree.



You are making my case for me. Why hold on to a bunch of solid young players when you can package them and possibly get an All-Star? I think last offseason would have been an opportune time to make a play for Steve Nash, David Lee, Chris Kaman and none of those players would have caused them to mortgage all their young pieces.



Tough sell that they are going to break the mold but I'm impressed with your optimism. And Green has to bring that 3pt shot up a hell of a lot to become Rashard Lewis.
who says nash was/is available.as well they dont need an allstar as they have at least one and maybe another/or at least borderline one.so all they have to do is put together a team that compliments him well,which they are..but they're young so it'll take some time.but so is he

KnicksorBust
08-15-2010, 07:06 PM
They weren't going to get anyone great with those players.

They are simply just based on potential, and even for potential their ceiling isn't that wide. A team would have to be really dumb to give up an all-star for a couple of good role players.

The Thunder are better off with Westbrook than Lee or Kaman.

There's no way the Thunder would want an old Nash, how much time does he have left? They have Westbrook for that who's much younger.

Jeff Green could have got them Chris Kaman (2010 All-Star) and they could have signed David Lee (2010 All-Star) for relatively cheap (ended up signing a 1 year $7 million contract with the Knicks) and traded Westbrook for Nash (2010 All-Star). Nash played at the same level as his MVP season and would have made Durant's life a dream. Kevin Durant with a developing Thunder team won 50 games. Imagine Kevin Durant with 3 All-Stars? They'd still have Thabo, Harden, Ibaka, Aldrich and they'd have 4 All-Star caliber players in their starting 5.

tredigs
08-15-2010, 07:06 PM
Agree to disagree.



You are making my case for me. Why hold on to a bunch of solid young players when you can package them and possibly get an All-Star? I think last offseason would have been an opportune time to make a play for Steve Nash, David Lee, Chris Kaman and none of those players would have caused them to mortgage all their young pieces.



Tough sell that they are going to break the mold but I'm impressed with your optimism. And Green has to bring that 3pt shot up a hell of a lot to become Rashard Lewis.

Steve Nash to take the place of Westbrook, are you kidding me?? Logistics aside - they're trying to build a dynasty, not a retirement home.

What they're doing (with building around such a young but talented core) is a calculated risk, but if it works out and continues to progress at it has been - then they are going to be a feared team and perennial contenders. I'd say it's worth the risk.

KnicksorBust
08-15-2010, 07:09 PM
who says nash was/is available.as well they dont need an allstar as they have at least one and maybe another/or at least borderline one.so all they have to do is put together a team that compliments him well,which they are..but they're young so it'll take some time.but so is he

"I definitely was weighing all my options," Nash said Monday on a conference call with reporters, his first public comments since signing the new deal. "I definitely looked out there to see what possibilities there were -- becoming a free agent next year, asking to be traded.

Nash had just suffered through his worst season in about 6 years and was dealing with a team that was falling apart. That nucleus of Joe Johnson, Shawn Marion, and Amar'e Stoudemire was nonexistent. Johnson and Marion were gone and Amar'e was going to be a FA(everyone knew he had the itch to leave). You don't think he and the Suns welcome that trade offer?

KnicksorBust
08-15-2010, 07:13 PM
Clarification:

I'm not going to sit here and argue logistics of trade scenarios. It simply boils down to the fact that the team they have right now, while talented, is not a title team. If I had Kevin Durant on my team I'd do everything I could to get him another All-Star(s) to make a real playoff push. Durant is ready now and I'd love to roll the dice with a 8-10 year window of contending then lose 2-3 years hoping that late lottery picks become All-Stars. They have salary cap and loads of young talent and they are just letting time pass in the wind. We will have this same discussion in a year after the Thunder win 50 something games and go down early in the playoffs again.

tredigs
08-15-2010, 07:15 PM
Jeff Green could have got them Chris Kaman (2010 All-Star) and they could have signed David Lee (2010 All-Star) for relatively cheap (ended up signing a 1 year $7 million contract with the Knicks) and traded Westbrook for Nash (2010 All-Star). Nash played at the same level as his MVP season and would have made Durant's life a dream. Kevin Durant with a developing Thunder team won 50 games. Imagine Kevin Durant with 3 All-Stars? They'd still have Thabo, Harden, Ibaka, Aldrich and they'd have 4 All-Star caliber players in their starting 5.

They would be atrocious defensively and a worse team (their team defense/rebounding/shot-blocking is their strongest point as a team) - not to mention it would ruin their development and close their championship window by 6 years. AS appearances mean nothing, bro. Think outside the box on this one.

What they're doing right now is perfect, and if at the trade deadline they feel like Ibaka + Aldrich aren't going to be able to cut it on an otherwise championship level team, then they can make a move for a PF/C. This allows for more development, and they may end up not having to make the move regardless and maintain their continuity.

abe_froman
08-15-2010, 07:15 PM
"I definitely was weighing all my options," Nash said Monday on a conference call with reporters, his first public comments since signing the new deal. "I definitely looked out there to see what possibilities there were -- becoming a free agent next year, asking to be traded.

Nash had just suffered through his worst season in about 6 years and was dealing with a team that was falling apart. That nucleus of Joe Johnson, Shawn Marion, and Amar'e Stoudemire was nonexistent. Johnson and Marion were gone and Amar'e was going to be a FA(everyone knew he had the itch to leave). You don't think he and the Suns welcome that trade offer?

he came back for a reason and no,they went to the wcf.i think thats puts them as a team looking to compete more than a team looking to go young/rebuild

they had a bad year from poor coaching choice and the loss of their 2nd best player.which any team that has that happen,probably will have a bad year.

Avenged
08-15-2010, 07:17 PM
Jeff Green could have got them Chris Kaman (2010 All-Star) and they could have signed David Lee (2010 All-Star) for relatively cheap (ended up signing a 1 year $7 million contract with the Knicks) and traded Westbrook for Nash (2010 All-Star). Nash played at the same level as his MVP season and would have made Durant's life a dream. Kevin Durant with a developing Thunder team won 50 games. Imagine Kevin Durant with 3 All-Stars? They'd still have Thabo, Harden, Ibaka, Aldrich and they'd have 4 All-Star caliber players in their starting 5.

I have a hard time imagining a Green for Kaman swap.

I'm not saying Nash isn't any good because he is, but look at his age. He would have made Durant's life a dream for what? 1 season? While Westbrook is still developing rapidly.

I'm a believe that the Thunder aren't ready yet to win a title, but even if they had added Kaman or Lee (who aren't anything spectacular to begin with) weren't going to lead the Thunder to a title.

What their organization is doing right now is working, no reason to go away from that right now.

KnicksorBust
08-15-2010, 07:30 PM
They would be atrocious defensively and a worse team (their team defense/rebounding/shot-blocking is their strongest point as a team) - not to mention it would ruin their development and close their championship window by 6 years. AS appearances mean nothing, bro. Think outside the box on this one.

What they're doing right now is perfect, and if at the trade deadline they feel like Ibaka + Aldrich aren't going to be able to cut it on an otherwise championship level team, then they can make a move for a PF/C. This allows for more development, and they may end up not having to make the move regardless and maintain their continuity.

Lee and Kaman are both good rebounders and Kaman is a shotblocker. Also they would still have Ibaka. You can't seriously be telling me that trading Green for Kaman would destroy their defense? The downgrade from Westbrook to Nash defensively is a hit but offensively they would become 10x more efficient. Considering they'd have great rebounders and good shotblockers it'd definately be worth the move. You and I both know they'd be a stronger team with those 3 on board.


he came back for a reason and no,they went to the wcf.i think thats puts them as a team looking to compete more than a team looking to go young/rebuild

they had a bad year from poor coaching choice and the loss of their 2nd best player.which any team that has that happen,probably will have a bad year.




I have a hard time imagining a Green for Kaman swap.

I'm not saying Nash isn't any good because he is, but look at his age. He would have made Durant's life a dream for what? 1 season? While Westbrook is still developing rapidly.

I'm a believe that the Thunder aren't ready yet to win a title, but even if they had added Kaman or Lee (who aren't anything spectacular to begin with) weren't going to lead the Thunder to a title.

What their organization is doing right now is working, no reason to go away from that right now.

Clippers already had Marcus Camby and Blake Griffin. Why would they want Kaman's huge contract instead of cheap young talented forward Jeff Green coming off a great season?

Nash - Thabo - Durant - Lee - Kaman with Harden and Ibaka off the bench would definately have been a stronger team this year and would be already title contending this year after a year of experience together.

Sandman
08-15-2010, 07:34 PM
green for kaman and westbrook for nash? this is disgusting madness.

KnicksorBust
08-15-2010, 07:37 PM
green for kaman and westbrook for nash? this is disgusting madness.

Why would a team that desperately needs a center trade for an All-Star center? Why would a team trade an inexperienced PG with no jumpshot for a 2x MVP? :rolleyes:

icej
08-15-2010, 07:42 PM
Durant is there in the good category just not in the great yet.

Media is like a leech they will feed on whatever blood source is nearest and suck on them.

Sandman
08-15-2010, 07:48 PM
For.. uhh... obvious reasons?

Because Chris Kaman, even after a career year, shouldnt be considered an "all-star center".

Because Nash is about 15 years older than Westbrook, and Westbrook is already knocking on his door.

Why would a team trade a 21 year old budding PG in Westbrook for an over the hill Steve Nash? :rolleyes: CHECK IT OUT I HAVE ICONS TOO

Baller1
08-15-2010, 08:04 PM
Don't talk **** on Kevin Durant.

Seriously, he's the perfect human; just don't.

icej
08-15-2010, 08:08 PM
Why would a team trade a 21 year old budding PG in Westbrook for an over the hill Steve Nash?

For the ultimate goal of winning a CHAMPIONSHIP when they had the chance.

A ring or 2 is better than none, I hope Durant don't do CP3 or a Anthony.

I mean when he realized that he is the only star left with no sparkles around to make him shine.

BuddhaMONK
08-15-2010, 08:16 PM
The media wasted 7 years in resources of non-stop hyping one young player as the best in the NBA, and soon to be greatest of ALL time, only for LeBron to fall short, and now they've found their new project: Kevin Durant.

How the media is so quick to hype the next young phenom is a little sickening and disrespectful. They insist on applying this "instant dominance" shtick to every young player and heralding them the greatest, but it does an injustice to all the great players who had to work hard and grind to reach an MVP or championship level and having all that work pay off with a title. Players like Jordan, Isiah, Hakeem, Shaq, and others I grew up watching put up Hall of Fame worthy numbers in their first 3-4 seasons and didn't receive this disgusting level of fan jockeying, and weren't crowned king until they finally won several years later.

What annoys me most is Durant seems like a humble guy who doesn't have these bold expectations or anything like that, but the media is doing this anyway, which makes me sort of wish he doesn't succeed just to continue to prove them wrong and hope they will stop doing this with every young player.

ur just jelous because Heat have lebron and u know durant's gonna be better (already averages more points then him)

Avenged
08-15-2010, 08:52 PM
The Thunder didn't and shouldn't trade for Kaman. The guy isn't all that great, they have a nice big in Ibaka who's defensive presence will play a much bigger role than offense.

The Thunder don't need help scoring, last season they averaged 101 ppg and their opponents put in an average of 98 ppg. Every time the opposition scores under 100, is a major plus.

The Thunder are fine the way they are, they have a very young group and are already a top team. Now, imagine them when they're fully developed and gain more experience with Durant also getting better every year? This team is only getting better..

And the Westbrook for Nash is a big no-no. How old is Steve, 36?

Compared to Westbrook who is, 21?

It's not like Westbrook sucks and has no room for improvement. This kid will be cracking the top 5 in PG's this season or the next.

elizur
08-15-2010, 09:42 PM
"I definitely was weighing all my options," Nash said Monday on a conference call with reporters, his first public comments since signing the new deal. "I definitely looked out there to see what possibilities there were -- becoming a free agent next year, asking to be traded.

Nash had just suffered through his worst season in about 6 years and was dealing with a team that was falling apart. That nucleus of Joe Johnson, Shawn Marion, and Amar'e Stoudemire was nonexistent. Johnson and Marion were gone and Amar'e was going to be a FA(everyone knew he had the itch to leave). You don't think he and the Suns welcome that trade offer?

Amare wated to stay. The Knicks just offered more.

elizur
08-15-2010, 09:43 PM
ur just jelous because Heat have lebron and u know durant's gonna be better (already averages more points then him)

He will not be better. Let at least make smart comments.

Sandman
08-15-2010, 10:16 PM
For the ultimate goal of winning a CHAMPIONSHIP when they had the chance.

A ring or 2 is better than none, I hope Durant don't do CP3 or a Anthony.

I mean when he realized that he is the only star left with no sparkles around to make him shine.
and how is a 36 y/o Nash better suited for helping Durant win a championship than Westbrook?

lakerfan3118
08-15-2010, 10:43 PM
He will not be better (than Lebron James). Let at least make smart comments.

For a person criticizing the mass hype towards Kevin Durant, you certainly bought the "Lebron James is unstoppable" media headline quite well.

ChiSox219
08-15-2010, 10:52 PM
Durant is so sick, you just can't explain it to those who haven't seen him.

And seeing how OKC was almost never on NatTV, there are a lot of people who haven't seen much of the 2010-11 NBA MVP.

Baller1
08-15-2010, 11:01 PM
Durant is so sick, you just can't explain it to those who haven't seen him.

And seeing how OKC was almost never on NatTV, there are a lot of people who haven't seen much of the 2010-11 NBA MVP.

:love:

KnicksorBust
08-15-2010, 11:03 PM
For.. uhh... obvious reasons?

Because Chris Kaman, even after a career year, shouldnt be considered an "all-star center".

Because Nash is about 15 years older than Westbrook, and Westbrook is already knocking on his door.

Why would a team trade a 21 year old budding PG in Westbrook for an over the hill Steve Nash? :rolleyes: CHECK IT OUT I HAVE ICONS TOO

Over the hill Steve Nash? :laugh: Oops sorry didn't mean to use another icon.

Steve Nash in 2005 (1st MVP award) - 15.5ppg / 11.5apg shooting 50%/43%/89%
Steve Nash in 2010 - 16.5ppg / 11.0apg shooting 51%/43%/94%

Steve Nash was 35 years old last year and if he was a 7'2 center that might scare me but everything about this guy's style of play tells me he's got John Stockton blood in him. Stockton played till he was 40 years old. I would love to see 5 years of Steve Nash setting Kevin Durant up for layups and wide open 3's.

lakerfan3118
08-15-2010, 11:14 PM
If the Thunder believe that, Kevin Durant will never win a ring.

Oklahoma City won a total of 23 games in 2008 before their rather surprising playoff berth last year. We are talking about a team who's expecations, realistically, were just to make the playoffs until recently and not necessarily to win a championship. It's easy to overlook this, understood, but you can't seriously chastize a team for not having the personnel to assemble a championship team when they've just come off a rather long rebuilding period, can you? And guess what, those rebuilding periods take a long time; they require sacrifice-- just ask New York Knicks fans.

That being said, your suggested method of reaching those championship expecations-- through trade, and especially the trade of youth for age-- is rather foolish. By now, I'm sure you've heard your fair share of criticism for your Steve Nash propositions (rather warranted, I might add), but I'd like to add that going out and grabing a Chris Kaman or a Steve Nash or whatever other available talent there is nowadays (Rip Hamilton, TJ Ford?) isn't going to guarantee you a championship either. OKC would be facing a first round exit anyway with either one of your suggestions, and the benefits of a rebuilding process- possible progression from the youth, money saved, trade bait- would be lost.

Oklahoma City is (arguably) not a championship contender. That being said, their rebuilding process isn't over either. They still need to make moves, they need to resign players, choose to extend rookie contracts or not. Only then can you criticize the roster and for it's lack of movement, but not now.

OMGYES
08-15-2010, 11:17 PM
Em LeBron is pretty damn great blockshotter, just look this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsjv1NG6EdU
But I agree media creates too much hype about those kind of players.

LeBron is good at those weak-side or chase down blocks. What makes players like Dwight and Josh Smith better shot blockers is that they block shots down on the block.

godolphins
08-15-2010, 11:21 PM
Durant is the next best thing

Sandman
08-15-2010, 11:30 PM
Over the hill Steve Nash? :laugh: Oops sorry didn't mean to use another icon.

Steve Nash in 2005 (1st MVP award) - 15.5ppg / 11.5apg shooting 50%/43%/89%
Steve Nash in 2010 - 16.5ppg / 11.0apg shooting 51%/43%/94%

Steve Nash was 35 years old last year and if he was a 7'2 center that might scare me but everything about this guy's style of play tells me he's got John Stockton blood in him. Stockton played till he was 40 years old. I would love to see 5 years of Steve Nash setting Kevin Durant up for layups and wide open 3's.
His MVPs are 5 years old and don't help the team in 2010. Like many people have said... Nash is 36... Westbrook is 21...

Let me ask, what do you think of Westbrook? You've shat on him enough in this thread.

And what happens... even if Steve Nash is the best PG in the NBA for the next 3 years. Does that win the Thunder a title? More importantly, if they dont have Westbrook, where does that leave them in year 4 or 5?

Most importantly, where does that put them in year 6, when Durant is a FA? I find it amusing that your plan to "build around Durant" involves adding aging veterans. Most teams would look to be younger and more athletic.... or exactly the path they're on now.

....and did you even bother looking at Stockton's numbers from 35-41? :facepalm: he was not in all-star form.

arkanian215
08-15-2010, 11:35 PM
The media wasted 7 years in resources of non-stop hyping one young player as the best in the NBA, and soon to be greatest of ALL time, only for LeBron to fall short, and now they've found their new project: Kevin Durant.

How the media is so quick to hype the next young phenom is a little sickening and disrespectful. They insist on applying this "instant dominance" shtick to every young player and heralding them the greatest, but it does an injustice to all the great players who had to work hard and grind to reach an MVP or championship level and having all that work pay off with a title. Players like Jordan, Isiah, Hakeem, Shaq, and others I grew up watching put up Hall of Fame worthy numbers in their first 3-4 seasons and didn't receive this disgusting level of fan jockeying, and weren't crowned king until they finally won several years later.

What annoys me most is Durant seems like a humble guy who doesn't have these bold expectations or anything like that, but the media is doing this anyway, which makes me sort of wish he doesn't succeed just to continue to prove them wrong and hope they will stop doing this with every young player.

They won't stop peddling the young players just because only a few folks have a problem with it. There's plenty of marketing experts who get paid to decide who to advertise and how to push that image. It's about milking money from the machine that is the NBA and the sports entertainment industry.

KnicksorBust
08-15-2010, 11:36 PM
Oklahoma City won a total of 23 games in 2008 before their rather surprising playoff berth last year. We are talking about a team who's expecations, realistically, were just to make the playoffs until recently and not necessarily to win a championship. It's easy to overlook this, understood, but you can't seriously chastize a team for not having the personnel to assemble a championship team when they've just come off a rather long rebuilding period, can you? And guess what, those rebuilding periods take a long time; they require sacrifice-- just ask New York Knicks fans.

I'm not chasitizing them for not having the personnel. I'm worried they aren't being aggressive enough with their situation. I like the Thunder and that's what has made me so interested in them. They have an unbelievably talented player and I want them to do what the Miami Heat did 5 years ago. I want them to say..."Sure, things went well with Caron Butler and Lamar Odom but we have this special player and we can win a ring with him NOW." The rest was NBA Finals history. Wade has one of the all-time great finals performances and a ring on his finger. I bet there is no one in Miami thinking "Man I wish we had kept Lamar Odom" right now.



That being said, your suggested method of reaching those championship expecations-- through trade, and especially the trade of youth for age-- is rather foolish. By now, I'm sure you've heard your fair share of criticism for your Steve Nash propositions (rather warranted, I might add), but I'd like to add that going out and grabing a Chris Kaman or a Steve Nash or whatever other available talent there is nowadays (Rip Hamilton, TJ Ford?) isn't going to guarantee you a championship either. OKC would be facing a first round exit anyway with either one of your suggestions, and the benefits of a rebuilding process- possible progression from the youth, money saved, trade bait- would be lost.

They won 50 games with Durant and a couple good players. My scenario gives Durant two All-Star bigmen and an All-Star PG who is a former 2x MVP. I think it's safe to say my team would have had a better season.


Oklahoma City is (arguably) not a championship contender. That being said, their rebuilding process isn't over either. They still need to make moves, they need to resign players, choose to extend rookie contracts or not. Only then can you criticize the roster and for it's lack of movement, but not now.

First of all, I'm pretty sure we're allowed to criticize moves at any time. They have cap space right now. If they wait for Westbrook and Green to become restricted FAs then they will have to use that very same space to sign players that are ALREADY ON THE TEAM instead of getting players now and simply using bird rights. Also, in 2-3 years when these players haven't gotten much better, their value will decrease. As a players ceiling drops and salary increases, their trade value is highly diminished. That's what inherently gives players on their rookie contracts such great value.

loufor2
08-15-2010, 11:38 PM
such a humble and hardworking kid. He is great...why shouldn't he receive credit? They will still continue to ride lebron and miami

Sandman
08-15-2010, 11:40 PM
Lamar Odom on his second contract is not Russ Westbrook or Jeff Green. A guy on his second contract isn't a prospect anymore, he's paid. He's a chip unless he signed a deal below market value (usually a max deal player).

Nash and Kaman in '10........ yeah not on the same level as Shaq on the Heat. Sorry.

nanablvd
08-15-2010, 11:40 PM
I wish Durant to be the next winner after Kobe

KnicksorBust
08-15-2010, 11:45 PM
His MVPs are 5 years old and don't help the team in 2010. Like many people have said... Nash is 36... Westbrook is 21...

Let me ask, what do you think of Westbrook? You've shat on him enough in this thread.

And what happens... even if Steve Nash is the best PG in the NBA for the next 3 years. Does that win the Thunder a title? More importantly, if they dont have Westbrook, where does that leave them in year 4 or 5?

Most importantly, where does that put them in year 6, when Durant is a FA? I find it amusing that your plan to "build around Durant" involves adding aging veterans. Most teams would look to be younger and more athletic.... or exactly the path they're on now.

....and did you even bother looking at Stockton's numbers from 35-41? :facepalm: he was not in all-star form.

You complain that I used an icon and then use the pitiful facepalm. What a disappointment. Embarassed because I disproved your "over the hill" comment?

To answer your question, I don't know if the Thunder win a title with Nash. But if they had gotten Lee and Kaman like I proposed then I definately think they have a good chance. With a developing Harden and Ibaka on the bench and a defensive stopper like Thabo, they'd have a damn good shot. The problem many people seem to have is they are under this delusion that by staying put the Thunder are giving themselves this magical 10 year window of title contending. It's a fantasy. Lee and Kaman are young enough that it would be a good 5-6 year window with them and Nash would be the only one who needed to be replaced. However, teams re-tool their championship squads all the time. Look at the Miami Heat. They aren't regretting the Shaq deal. Look at the Celtics. You think they regret trading Al Jefferson for KG? Or the #5 pick for Ray Allen? They are taking full advantage of that 3-4 year window. The only real loss for the future would be Westbrook for Nash and that's an acceptable casualty when you go from a 1st round team to a possible title team.

ChiSox219
08-15-2010, 11:50 PM
Why is anyone questioning Sam Presti's roster?

This team could make no moves other than re-signing their current players and they'd still be title contenders for the next decade +

Sandman
08-16-2010, 12:03 AM
You complain that I used an icon and then use the pitiful facepalm. What a disappointment. Embarassed because I disproved your "over the hill" comment?
:cry:

wah wah

im assuming that means you still dont want to tell us what you saw when you looked up Stockton, and you still dont want to tell us what you think about Westbrook.

To answer your question, I don't know if the Thunder win a title with Nash. But if they had gotten Lee and Kaman like I proposed then I definately think they have a good chance. With a developing Harden and Ibaka on the bench and a defensive stopper like Thabo, they'd have a damn good shot. The problem many people seem to have is they are under this delusion that by staying put the Thunder are giving themselves this magical 10 year window of title contending. It's a fantasy. Lee and Kaman are young enough that it would be a good 5-6 year window with them and Nash would be the only one who needed to be replaced. However, teams re-tool their championship squads all the time. Look at the Miami Heat. They aren't regretting the Shaq deal. Look at the Celtics. You think they regret trading Al Jefferson for KG? Or the #5 pick for Ray Allen? They are taking full advantage of that 3-4 year window. The only real loss for the future would be Westbrook for Nash and that's an acceptable casualty when you go from a 1st round team to a possible title team.
Again. KG is not Chris Kaman. Ray Allen is a fairer comparison to Steve Nash, but still, Allen is younger than Nash today and this move happened three years ago. Don't forget that the Celtics refused to trade Rondo in either deal, despite starting just 25 games as a rookie the previous year.

It's not a bad thing to make a move... but moves for Shaq, KG and Ray Allen win you titles. Not Chris Kaman, David Lee and a 36 Nash and hell no for a 21 Westbrook, Russell will probably have a better season immediately, not even two years down the line (esp considering defense). Even if you're talking 5 year window, it doesn't make sense. Call 2010 a toss up, years 2-5 probably go to Westbrook.

Better comparisons would be Cleveland's swing and miss trades for Jamison and Shaq. and in those cases, Cleveland wasn't even really missing the guys they sent away.

They don't have a 10 year window, they have about a 6 year window because thats how long KD's current contract runs. At that point, they're not done, they need to have a future to even think about signing KD. KD isn't going to re-sign with a bunch of aging veterans.

Nash could be an addition to a championship team, maybe a final piece. But he's not a guy you move mountains to bring in. He's 36.

KnicksorBust
08-16-2010, 12:03 AM
Why is anyone questioning Sam Presti's roster?

This team could make no moves other than re-signing their current players and they'd still be title contenders for the next decade +

You're right. If make it to the playoffs as an 8th seed and then lose in the 1st round of the playoffs then you're a guaranteed title contender for a decade and should be immune from anyone even discussing your decisions.

Avenged
08-16-2010, 12:09 AM
.... As an 8th seed who managed to win 50 games.. Not your ordinary 50 win 8th seed.

The Thunder were a tie breaker away from being a 6 seed.. 3 wins away from being top 5.

5 games back from being top 2.

The gap isn't that wide at all.

You cannot fault the Thunder for losing in the first round to the favorites to win the championship, to a team far superior to them, and to a team who's starting Center who's always injured had more playoff experience combined than the whole Thunder roster.

It wasn't their time yet.

Baller1
08-16-2010, 12:11 AM
You're right. If make it to the playoffs as an 8th seed and then lose in the 1st round of the playoffs then you're a guaranteed title contender for a decade and should be immune from anyone even discussing your decisions.

When you're core is:

*Kevin Durant (21)
*Russell Westbrook (21)
*Jeff Green (23)
*James Harden (20)
*Serge Ibaka (20)

Then yes, I'm fine with a 50 win season and a first round exit against the back-to-back NBA champions.

*All of those players combined for a GRAND TOTAL of a whopping 0 years experience in the playoffs.

KnicksorBust
08-16-2010, 12:15 AM
:cry:

wah wah

im assuming that means you still dont want to tell us what you saw when you looked up Stockton, and you still dont want to tell us what you think about Westbrook.

Again. KG is not Chris Kaman. Ray Allen is a fairer comparison to Steve Nash, but still, Allen is younger than Nash today and this move happened three years ago. Don't forget that the Celtics refused to trade Rondo in either deal, despite starting just 25 games as a rookie the previous year.

It's not a bad thing to make a move... but moves for Shaq, KG and Ray Allen win you titles. Not Chris Kaman, David Lee and a 36 Nash and hell no for a 21 Westbrook, Russell will probably have a better season immediately, not even two years down the line (esp considering defense). Even if you're talking 5 year window, it doesn't make sense. Call 2010 a toss up, years 2-5 probably go to Westbrook.

Better comparisons would be Cleveland's swing and miss trades for Jamison and Shaq. and in those cases, Cleveland wasn't even really missing the guys they sent away.

They don't have a 10 year window, they have about a 6 year window because thats how long KD's current contract runs. At that point, they're not done, they need to have a future to even think about signing KD. KD isn't going to re-sign with a bunch of aging veterans.

Nash could be an addition to a championship team, maybe a final piece. But he's not a guy you move mountains to bring in. He's 36.

Wait, how old is Nash? I'm getting worried how old you are with the way you keep repeating yourself. Nash's 2010 season was equal to, if not superior, to his 2005 MVP season where he became the best player on a back to back WCF team. You have some bias against Nash that is precluding you from giving any credence the idea that he could bring the Thunder from a 50 win team to a title contender. You also talk about Kaman and Lee as if they are Zaza Pachulia and Reggie Evans. Kaman was a 19-9 player and Lee was a 20-12-4 guy. Throw them Nash and Durant to make their lives easier and who knows what happens. Ibaka and Thabo bring the defense. I love the fit of that roster and I can't help but think that Durant wouldn't be throwing up a 5 for 23 season ending game 6 with that help. He also probably wouldn't shoot 43 for 123 (35%) for the whole series with Nash feeding him easy baskets.

ChiSox219
08-16-2010, 12:17 AM
You're right. If make it to the playoffs as an 8th seed and then lose in the 1st round of the playoffs then you're a guaranteed title contender for a decade and should be immune from anyone even discussing your decisions.

For real? C'mon man! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxtT24tvjYQ&feature=related)

JLynn943
08-16-2010, 12:20 AM
Durant has been the recipient of the praise of all the LeBron haters. So many people who hate LeBron rally behind how "humble, hardworking, etc" KD is (hence the large number of Lakers fans who like Durant). I'm certainly not saying that Durant doesn't have potential to be great, because he does, but people seem to glorify him just to pretend that there's someone out there who contends with LeBron as the best player in the NBA.

It's like he's the second coming on these boards...

lakerfan3118
08-16-2010, 12:22 AM
I want them to say..."Sure, things went well with Caron Butler and Lamar Odom but we have this special player and we can win a ring with him NOW." The rest was NBA Finals history. Wade has one of the all-time great finals performances and a ring on his finger. I bet there is no one in Miami thinking "Man I wish we had kept Lamar Odom" right now.

Exception rather than the rule. Once upon a time, there was a player named Shaquille O'Neal that was dominant enough to warrant such a trade happening, and if you recall, the circumstances that made him available were among the most improbable in NBA history. I think you would agree that there are no impact players like that in today's NBA landscape, none that are available anyway; none that would propel OKC to a championship which is, again, the only logical reason one would make such a trade.

Allow me this proposition. Let us imagine that the Heat lost to the Mavericks in the 2006 NBA Finals. Let's imagine the negative ramifications of the trade then. Shaq was traded away by the Heat when they won, so its safe to assume that he would have been traded away in their loss-- ironically, the very player they traded for would have been traded away, making their rebuilding process a long failure. Miami would have had to rebuild yet again, and toil in irrelevance for a few more years on top of that. And ultimately, if not for this years free agent class, they would have been stuck there in the forseeable future, because no one one would take O'Neal's contract without a large price, which rendered the team financially inflexible. Rather grim.

The Heat took a risk in O'Neal, and luckily for them, it paid off. The Thunder take a risk on Kaman or Nash or whoever you want to assign, and the odds of lightning striking twice aren't so rich.



They won 50 games with Durant and a couple good players. My scenario gives Durant two All-Star bigmen and an All-Star PG who is a former 2x MVP. I think it's safe to say my team would have had a better season.

Your scenario was fun to think about for the sake of the argument, but realistically it was irrelevant. Not only were neither players connected to the team as possible destinations, but the notion that Nash would have considered going to the 23 win Thunder because he was frustrated in Phoenix's lack of postseason success was particularly amusing.



First of all, I'm pretty sure we're allowed to criticize moves at any time. They have cap space right now. If they wait for Westbrook and Green to become restricted FAs then they will have to use that very same space to sign players that are ALREADY ON THE TEAM instead of getting players now and simply using bird rights. Also, in 2-3 years when these players haven't gotten much better, their value will decrease. As a players ceiling drops and salary increases, their trade value is highly diminished. That's what inherently gives players on their rookie contracts such great value.

Exactly. The team is young, they have cap space, and as they watch their players progress, they will allot money accordingly. If they choose not to resign someone, they have the financial flexibility to sign someone else of equal or greater talent. Teams like the New York Knicks, for example, went out and arbitrarily traded for and signed players to large contracts in the hopes of being contenders in exchange for draft picks. The team failed, they compromised the future, and New York has just now gotten out of those circumstances, after years of ineptitude. What your proposing may not be as acute, but similar-- the mortaging of a team's future in return for expensive players that ultimately will not guarantee you a championship and require large overhead. That is precisely how not to run an NBA team.

Avenged
08-16-2010, 12:23 AM
Durant has been the recipient of the praise of all the LeBron haters. So many people who hate LeBron rally behind how "humble, hardworking, etc" KD is (hence the large number of Lakers fans who like Durant). I'm certainly not saying that Durant doesn't have potential to be great, because he does, but people seem to glorify him just to pretend that there's someone out there who contends with LeBron as the best player in the NBA.

It's like he's the second coming on these boards...

Yep, us Laker fans love Durant.. Nevermind the majority of fans other than the Heat who praise Durant constantly on this forum. It's mostly us...

KnicksorBust
08-16-2010, 12:25 AM
For real? C'mon man! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxtT24tvjYQ&feature=related)

:laugh: Why the edit? See this is why it's not worth debating with some people. Rather than give any real analysis you link some lame youtube clip. You have absolutely no way to assume the Thunder will truly contend for a title next year or any year in the next decade. NBA Players peak within their first 3 years. Anyone who follows the game knows that. Green ain't gettin any better. Westbrook ain't gettin that much better. Ibaka will be a VERY GOOD role player but he isn't not a game changer on both ends. That leaves Harden and Aldrich. Do I really believe that either one of them takes them to the finals? No. They don't have a true #2 option and in a year I hope all of you are back here so we can talk about how they wasted year 2 of elite Kevin Durant.

ChiSox219
08-16-2010, 12:25 AM
Durant has been the recipient of the praise of all the LeBron haters. So many people who hate LeBron rally behind how "humble, hardworking, etc" KD is (hence the large number of Lakers fans who like Durant). I'm certainly not saying that Durant doesn't have potential to be great, because he does, but people seem to glorify him just to pretend that there's someone out there who contends with LeBron as the best player in the NBA.

It's like he's the second coming on these boards...

Or maybe it has something to do with Durant being the youngest scoring champion ever or him being the first to lead the league in scoring with >.600 TS% since Jordan.

Or one of five players to average 30+ppg at >.600 TS%

Or his undisputed alpha dog status on team USA this summer

It could be because he led a team of youngsters to 50 wins in one of the toughest Conferences we've ever seen.

The attention might have to do with Durant's ability to impact the game and help take the Lakers to 6 (almost 7) games at age 21 while being hounded by one of the best defenders in the league.







Or maybe I'm just a Lebron hater.

Sandman
08-16-2010, 12:27 AM
Wait, how old is Nash? I'm getting worried how old you are with the way you keep repeating yourself. Nash's 2010 season was equal to, if not superior, to his 2005 MVP season where he became the best player on a back to back WCF team.
Nash absolutely didnt have an equal season, he won the MVP was because he was the best player on the best team. I don't think Phoenix had close to the seasons they did in 05 and 06.

You have some bias against Nash that is precluding you from giving any credence the idea that he could bring the Thunder from a 50 win team to a title contender.
I have no bias against Nash at all. I love Nash. That's why I'm completely shocked why anybody in their right mind would trade a 21 year old player as good as and with the potential of Russell Westbrook for a 36 year old Nash. It doesn't make sense, and you're not going to find anybody to back you up.

Even if Nash made them contenders... many are already calling them contenders with Westbrook. if Nash made them contenders, for how long?

You also talk about Kaman and Lee as if they are Zaza Pachulia and Reggie Evans. Kaman was a 19-9 player and Lee was a 20-12-4 guy.
I don't think that these guys are All-stars. Both of their numbers' are going down with new teammates.

Throw them Nash and Durant to make their lives easier and who knows what happens.
This is the next mind boggling thing. This is a completely random assortment of players. It's Durant and a bunch of white boys.

I love the fit of that roster and I can't help but think that Durant wouldn't be throwing up a 5 for 23 season ending game 6 with that help. He also probably wouldn't shoot 43 for 123 (35%) for the whole series with Nash feeding him easy baskets.
Westbrook averaged 20-6-6 in that series :confused: I don't see PG as the problem.

Sandman
08-16-2010, 12:29 AM
and moreover....

that Kaman and Lee wouldn't get steam rolled by........ any other playoff team's front court.......

is also questionable.

lakerfan3118
08-16-2010, 12:30 AM
I want them to say..."Sure, things went well with Caron Butler and Lamar Odom but we have this special player and we can win a ring with him NOW." The rest was NBA Finals history. Wade has one of the all-time great finals performances and a ring on his finger. I bet there is no one in Miami thinking "Man I wish we had kept Lamar Odom" right now.

Exception rather than the rule. Once upon a time, there was a player named Shaquille O'Neal that was dominant enough to warrant such a trade happening, and if you recall, the circumstances that made him available were among the most improbable in NBA history. I think you would agree that there are no impact players like that in today's NBA landscape, none that are available anyway; none that would propel OKC to a championship which is, again, the only logical reason one would make such a trade.

Allow me this proposition. Let us imagine that the Heat lost to the Mavericks in the 2006 NBA Finals. Let's imagine the negative ramifications of the trade then. Shaq was traded away by the Heat when they won, so its safe to assume that he would have been traded away in their loss-- ironically, the very player they traded for would have been traded away, making their rebuilding process a long failure. Miami would have had to rebuild yet again, and toil in irrelevance for a few more years on top of that. And ultimately, if not for this years free agent class, they would have been stuck there in the forseeable future, because no one one would take O'Neal's contract without a large price, rendering them financially inflexible as well.

The Heat took a risk in O'Neal, and luckily for them, it paid off. The Thunder take a risk on Kaman or Nash or whoever you want to assign, and the odds of lightning striking twice aren't so rich.



They won 50 games with Durant and a couple good players. My scenario gives Durant two All-Star bigmen and an All-Star PG who is a former 2x MVP. I think it's safe to say my team would have had a better season.

Your scenario was fun to think about for the sake of the argument, but realistically it was irrelevant. Not only were neither players connected to the team as possible destinations, but the notion that Nash would have considered going to the 23 win Thunder because he was frustrated in Phoenix's lack of postseason success was particularly amusing.



First of all, I'm pretty sure we're allowed to criticize moves at any time. They have cap space right now. If they wait for Westbrook and Green to become restricted FAs then they will have to use that very same space to sign players that are ALREADY ON THE TEAM instead of getting players now and simply using bird rights. Also, in 2-3 years when these players haven't gotten much better, their value will decrease. As a players ceiling drops and salary increases, their trade value is highly diminished. That's what inherently gives players on their rookie contracts such great value.

Exactly. The team is young, they have cap space, and as they watch their players progress, they will allot money accordingly. If they choose not to resign someone, they have the financial flexibility to sign someone else of equal or greater talent. Teams like the New York Knicks, for example, went out and arbitrarily traded for and signed players to large contracts in the hopes of being contenders in exchange for draft picks. The team failed, they compromised the future, and New York has just now gotten out of those circumstances. What your proposing may not be as acute, but similar-- the mortaging of a team's future in return for expensive players that ultimately will not guarantee you a championship and require large overhead. That is precisely how not to run an NBA team.

KnicksorBust
08-16-2010, 12:33 AM
Exception rather than the rule. Once upon a time, there was a player named Shaquille O'Neal that was dominant enough to warrant such a trade happening, and if you recall, the circumstances that made him available were among the most improbable in NBA history. I think you would agree that there are no impact players like that in today's NBA landscape, none that are available anyway; none that would propel OKC to a championship which is, again, the only logical reason one would make such a trade.

Allow me this proposition. Let us imagine that the Heat lost to the Mavericks in the 2006 NBA Finals. Let's imagine the negative ramifications of the trade then. Shaq was traded away by the Heat when they won, so its safe to assume that he would have been traded away in their loss-- ironically, the very player they traded for would have been traded away, making their rebuilding process a long failure. Miami would have had to rebuild yet again, and toil in irrelevance for a few more years on top of that. And ultimately, if not for this years free agent class, they would have been stuck there in the forseeable future, because no one one would take O'Neal's contract without a large price, which rendered the team financially inflexible. Rather grim.

The Heat took a risk in O'Neal, and luckily for them, it paid off. The Thunder take a risk on Kaman or Nash or whoever you want to assign, and the odds of lightning striking twice aren't so rich.




Your scenario was fun to think about for the sake of the argument, but realistically it was irrelevant. Not only were neither players connected to the team as possible destinations, but the notion that Nash would have considered going to the 23 win Thunder because he was frustrated in Phoenix's lack of postseason success was particularly amusing.




Exactly. The team is young, they have cap space, and as they watch their players progress, they will allot money accordingly. If they choose not to resign someone, they have the financial flexibility to sign someone else of equal or greater talent. Teams like the New York Knicks, for example, went out and arbitrarily traded for and signed players to large contracts in the hopes of being contenders in exchange for draft picks. The team failed, they compromised the future, and New York has just now gotten out of those circumstances, after years of ineptitude. What your proposing may not be as acute, but similar-- the mortaging of a team's future in return for expensive players that ultimately will not guarantee you a championship and require large overhead. That is precisely how not to run an NBA team.

When I proposed the trades last year it would have given the Thunder:

David Lee - 26
Chris Kaman - 27
Steve Nash - 35

They'd still have Durant, Harden, Ibaka, and Thabo. Plenty of youth mixed with experienced vets. A winning combination. I hardly think that's mortgaging the future. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm going to bed for the night. I'll talk to you on August 16th, 2011 and we'll compare notes. :)

Baller1
08-16-2010, 12:34 AM
Or maybe it has something to do with Durant being the youngest scoring champion ever or him being the first to lead the league in scoring with >.600 TS% since Jordan.

Or one of five players to average 30+ppg at >.600 TS%

Or his undisputed alpha dog status on team USA this summer

It could be because he led a team of youngsters to 50 wins in one of the toughest Conferences we've ever seen.

The attention might have to do with Durant's ability to impact the game and help take the Lakers to 6 (almost 7) games at age 21 while being hounded by one of the best defenders in the league.

Or maybe it's his huge dick.






Or maybe I'm just a Lebron hater.

Fixed.

lakerfan3118
08-16-2010, 12:34 AM
Green ain't gettin any better. Westbrook ain't gettin that much better. Ibaka will be a VERY GOOD role player but he isn't not a game changer on both ends. That leaves Harden and Aldrich

What's the point? Even if one were to grant you that these are mediocre players, the team still has the cap space to sign a decent player next offseason if they see fit. Trading away Green or Ibaka while they're getting paid close to nothing makes no sense.

Baller1
08-16-2010, 12:36 AM
:laugh: Why the edit? See this is why it's not worth debating with some people. Rather than give any real analysis you link some lame youtube clip. You have absolutely no way to assume the Thunder will truly contend for a title next year or any year in the next decade. NBA Players peak within their first 3 years. Anyone who follows the game knows that. Green ain't gettin any better. Westbrook ain't gettin that much better. Ibaka will be a VERY GOOD role player but he isn't not a game changer on both ends. That leaves Harden and Aldrich. Do I really believe that either one of them takes them to the finals? No. They don't have a true #2 option and in a year I hope all of you are back here so we can talk about how they wasted year 2 of elite Kevin Durant.

:laugh2:

Are you ****ing serious?! That's such an absurd statement, I'm seriously in awe at that claim.

ChiSox219
08-16-2010, 12:37 AM
:laugh: Why the edit? See this is why it's not worth debating with some people. Rather than give any real analysis you link some lame youtube clip. You have absolutely no way to assume the Thunder will truly contend for a title next year or any year in the next decade. NBA Players peak within their first 3 years. Anyone who follows the game knows that. Green ain't gettin any better. Westbrook ain't gettin that much better. Ibaka will be a VERY GOOD role player but he isn't not a game changer on both ends. That leaves Harden and Aldrich. Do I really believe that either one of them takes them to the finals? No. They don't have a true #2 option and in a year I hope all of you are back here so we can talk about how they wasted year 2 of elite Kevin Durant.

I edited because my original comment was an immediate and thus poorly thought out reaction. But it still stands if you saw it.

As for analysis, well:

-Numerous players peaked at age 24 including Jordan and (so far) Lebron. Neither was in their third year and both are comparable to Durant at age 21. Please, I'd be interested in any evidence that says NBA players peak in their first three years, Josh Smith sends his regards.

-I agree on Green, he was a mistake and if the Thunder can move him for something of value it would be a bonus to the current roster. Or maybe he puts it together after playing some ball this summer with rising stars. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

-Westbrook has a lot of room to grow and he will be an all-star. One of the few PGs capable of playing both ways at a high level.

-Ibaka doesn't need to be a force on both ends...but he will be a force on the defensive end.

-You forgot Thabo Sefolosha, one of the leagues premier perimeter defenders. A guy capable of guarding the best opposing wing, allowing Durant to focus on his offense.

-Harden is an ideal 6th man, capable of playing multiple positions and scoring in several different ways.

-Don't know much about Aldrich but the Thunder have some nice role players in MoPete and Cook, guys that can fill certain roles very well and won't be asked to do much. Maynor and Kristic will contribute for several years as well.



OKC has one of the best GMs in the league so their level of talent should only improve over the next few years even if it's only through trades and MLE.

lakerfan3118
08-16-2010, 12:38 AM
When I proposed the trades last year it would have given the Thunder:

David Lee - 26
Chris Kaman - 27
Steve Nash - 35

They'd still have Durant, Harden, Ibaka, and Thabo. Plenty of youth mixed with experienced vets. A winning combination. I hardly think that's mortgaging the future. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm going to bed for the night. I'll talk to you on August 16th, 2011 and we'll compare notes. :)

Your proposed trades, unfortunately, hold no realistic credence, would have been financially impractical to pull off, and are wishful thinking at best.

But agree to disagree we will.

Avenged
08-16-2010, 12:39 AM
Players usually breakout during their 3rd year, not peak.

They establish themselves as players once they hit their 3rd year, most of the time, but they don't peak until their around their mid 20's.

Westbrook has a lot of room for improvement.

Just look at his regular season stats and look at the jump he did in the playoffs against the champs, quite impressive in my eyes.

Sandman
08-16-2010, 12:39 AM
Lee and Kaman are young enough that it would be a good 5-6 year window with them and Nash would be the only one who needed to be replaced. However, teams re-tool their championship squads all the time. Look at the Miami Heat. They aren't regretting the Shaq deal. Look at the Celtics. You think they regret trading Al Jefferson for KG? Or the #5 pick for Ray Allen?


You also talk about Kaman and Lee as if they are Zaza Pachulia and Reggie Evans.

Clearly your comparisons of Kaman and Lee to KG and Shaq are much more fitting.

And you still wont tell me what you think of Westbrook or what you saw when you looked at Stockton.

I'm out. PEACE :smoking:

Baller1
08-16-2010, 12:40 AM
Players usually breakout during their 3rd year, not peak.

They establish themselves as players once they hit their 3rd year, most of the time, but they don't peak until their around their mid 20's.

Westbrook has a lot of room for improvement.

Just look at his regular season stats and look at the jump he did in the playoffs against the champs, quite impressive in my eyes.

Well... he was being guarded by that old piece of **** Fisher. :p

tonyd3b54
08-16-2010, 12:41 AM
i dont mind it as much with durant cuz hes actually a humble kid and all around good guy. lebron is and always has been the most spoiled egotistical guy ive ever seen. he really thinks he is god. it makes me hope something bad happens to him to knock him off his pedistal and realize hes no better than the rest of them...

JLynn943
08-16-2010, 12:43 AM
Yep, us Laker fans love Durant.. Nevermind the majority of fans other than the Heat who praise Durant constantly on this forum. It's mostly us...

I'm sorry that you don't understand what an example is.


Or maybe it has something to do with Durant being the youngest scoring champion ever or him being the first to lead the league in scoring with >.600 TS% since Jordan.

Or one of five players to average 30+ppg at >.600 TS%

Or his undisputed alpha dog status on team USA this summer

It could be because he led a team of youngsters to 50 wins in one of the toughest Conferences we've ever seen.

The attention might have to do with Durant's ability to impact the game and help take the Lakers to 6 (almost 7) games at age 21 while being hounded by one of the best defenders in the league.

Or maybe I'm just a Lebron hater.

I'm not knocking him at all (although I wouldn't give all the credit to him in that Lakers series by any means), but this is what, 2 seasons of him playing at this level? People are way too eager to make him the next biggest thing in the NBA. Do we really need to hype up another player to the level LeBron was at?

Avenged
08-16-2010, 12:46 AM
Well... he was being guarded by that old piece of **** Fisher. :p

For the first couple of games until Phil Jackson adjusted.

The last 4 games, Westbrook put up 27, 18, 15, and 21.

He was 7th overall in PER in the playoffs and #1 in PER among PG's.

Baller1
08-16-2010, 12:47 AM
I'm sorry that you don't understand what an example is.



I'm not knocking him at all (although I wouldn't give all the credit to him in that Lakers series by any means), but this is what, 2 seasons of him playing at this level? People are way too eager to make him the next biggest thing in the NBA. Do we really need to hype up another player to the level LeBron was at?

I see no problem in hyping a Michael Jordan/Jesus hybrid.

Baller1
08-16-2010, 12:48 AM
For the first couple of games until Phil Jackson adjusted.

The last 4 games, Westbrook put up 27, 18, 15, and 21.

He was 7th overall in PER in the playoffs and #1 in PER among PG's.

I know, I'm just giving you a hard time because I ****ing hate the Lakers.

But yeah, it was awesome to see Westbrook rise to the occasion in that series.

Avenged
08-16-2010, 12:50 AM
I'm sorry that you don't understand what an example is.

When you use the words "Lebron haters" and how people who "hate Lebron rally behind Durant", and then go on to mention Laker fans as an "example", I'm sorry for using sarcasm. When it's pretty clear that the majority on here praise Durant non-stop and hate on Lebron.

Check out the threads, they're everywhere. But you singled out a fan base, you know exactly what you meant by it. :)

Just saying.

Ezekial
08-16-2010, 12:56 AM
Em LeBron is pretty damn great blockshotter, just look this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsjv1NG6EdU
But I agree media creates too much hype about those kind of players.

Oh my god.
_________________________________________

@ OP
Sorry, media stray away from Miami for too long?

JLynn943
08-16-2010, 01:00 AM
When you use the words "Lebron haters" and how people who "hate Lebron rally behind Durant", and then go on to mention Laker fans as an "example", I'm sorry for using sarcasm. When it's pretty clear that the majority on here praise Durant non-stop and hate on Lebron.

Check out the threads, they're everywhere. But you singled out a fan base, you know exactly what you meant by it. :)

Just saying.

I used the Lakers because for a long time on these boards a lot of LeBron hate was coming from them. This makes sense as LeBron was Kobe's biggest competition as the best player in the league and the Cavs were one of the top teams the Lakers had to contend with. Then, reading through this thread, I noticed a number of Lakers fans praising him (as I have seen elsewhere on here), so the use of the Lakers as an example made sense to me :shrug:

would it be better if I said Chicago? they were scorned by LeBron and I've seen a lot of praise coming from them as well

Durant deserves hype, but some are way to quick to hype him up beyond what he should be getting.

KnicksorBust
08-16-2010, 01:02 AM
Nash absolutely didnt have an equal season, he won the MVP was because he was the best player on the best team. I don't think Phoenix had close to the seasons they did in 05 and 06.

I have no bias against Nash at all. I love Nash. That's why I'm completely shocked why anybody in their right mind would trade a 21 year old player as good as and with the potential of Russell Westbrook for a 36 year old Nash. It doesn't make sense, and you're not going to find anybody to back you up.

Even if Nash made them contenders... many are already calling them contenders with Westbrook. if Nash made them contenders, for how long?

I don't think that these guys are All-stars. Both of their numbers' are going down with new teammates.

This is the next mind boggling thing. This is a completely random assortment of players. It's Durant and a bunch of white boys.

Westbrook averaged 20-6-6 in that series :confused: I don't see PG as the problem.

Nash's relevant statistics and overall PER were practically identical and the Suns had the same exact record in 2010 as 2006. You have no leg to stand on with your first statement. I'd take a 4 year window with Nash over Westbrook's career. I understand that puts me in the minority. I'm enjoying it. Finally I seem to have somehow stumbled on some outrageous opinion that a young superstar would play well with one of the greatest passers of all-time, a rebounding PF with a mid-range game, and a shot blocking post player at center. Lock me up with Hannibal Lector! I'll ignore that stupid white boys comment and move on to the fact that Westbrook should be able to average 25-8-8 vs. Derek Fisher and he's lucky they didn't put Kobe on him sooner. Oh and Nash averaged 18ppg/12apg vs LAL. Maybe it would have been nicer for Durant to have a better pure passer around?


I edited because my original comment was an immediate and thus poorly thought out reaction. But it still stands if you saw it.

As for analysis, well:

-Numerous players peaked at age 24 including Jordan and (so far) Lebron. Neither was in their third year and both are comparable to Durant at age 21. Please, I'd be interested in any evidence that says NBA players peak in their first three years, Josh Smith sends his regards.

-I agree on Green, he was a mistake and if the Thunder can move him for something of value it would be a bonus to the current roster. Or maybe he puts it together after playing some ball this summer with rising stars. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

-Westbrook has a lot of room to grow and he will be an all-star. One of the few PGs capable of playing both ways at a high level.

-Ibaka doesn't need to be a force on both ends...but he will be a force on the defensive end.

-You forgot Thabo Sefolosha, one of the leagues premier perimeter defenders. A guy capable of guarding the best opposing wing, allowing Durant to focus on his offense.

-Harden is an ideal 6th man, capable of playing multiple positions and scoring in several different ways.

-Don't know much about Aldrich but the Thunder have some nice role players in MoPete and Cook, guys that can fill certain roles very well and won't be asked to do much. Maynor and Kristic will contribute for several years as well.



OKC has one of the best GMs in the league so their level of talent should only improve over the next few years even if it's only through trades and MLE.

I've mentioned Thabo about 5 times already but whatever. If you are seriously bringing up MoPete and Cook to swing this debate then I've already won.


Your proposed trades, unfortunately, hold no realistic credence, would have been financially impractical to pull off, and are wishful thinking at best.

But agree to disagree we will.

Your opinion. Really the Nash trade is the only thing you could even debate was unrealistic. Signing Lee was definately possible. They had the cap and he only signed for $7 million. Meanwhile, the Clippers were trying bad to unload Kaman when they were stuck with Camby and about to draft Blake Griffin so they would have jumped at the chance to take Green. Finally, Nash had rumors of leaving all summer and the Suns had just missed the playoffs for the first time with him on the roster. If they already had Lee and Kaman on board I'm sure both sides would have been agreeable to a Westbrook for Nash swap.


Players usually breakout during their 3rd year, not peak.
They establish themselves as players once they hit their 3rd year, most of the time, but they don't peak until their around their mid 20's.

Westbrook has a lot of room for improvement.

Just look at his regular season stats and look at the jump he did in the playoffs against the champs, quite impressive in my eyes.

Agree. Replace my post of "peak" with breakout.


Clearly your comparisons of Kaman and Lee to KG and Shaq are much more fitting.

And you still wont tell me what you think of Westbrook or what you saw when you looked at Stockton.

I'm out. PEACE :smoking:

I'm comparing a total acquisition of Nash/Lee/Kaman to Shaq. I'd say that's more than balanced. Stockton's numbers dropped but his PER and effeciency rating were the same. His per 36 stats were basically the same too. Sloan just played him less minutes to save him for the playoffs. Feel free to go re-check. He was leading the league in offensive rating at age 38. In regards to Westbrook, I love that he's a 2way player but I don't like him as much as everyone else. I'll watch more of him next year and maybe he'll surprise me but I don't see him as being good enough to be Durant's #2 option.

Sandman
08-16-2010, 01:14 AM
Nash's relevant statistics and overall PER were practically identical and the Suns had the same exact record in 2010 as 2006. You have no leg to stand on with your first statement.
It doesn't matter what their record was this year compared to 05 or 06, they were nowhere near the best team. Nash won the MVP as the best player on the best team when nobody else could distinguish themselves. Props to Nash

I'd take a 4 year window with Nash over Westbrook's career. I understand that puts me in the minority. I'm enjoying it.
You're not only in the minority, you're alone.

Finally I seem to have somehow stumbled on some outrageous opinion that a young superstar would play well with one of the greatest passers of all-time, a rebounding PF with a mid-range game, and a shot blocking post player at center. Lock me up with Hannibal Lector!
"Greatest passers of all time" at 36.

I'll ignore that stupid white boys comment
Seriously where's JJ Redick? This looks like a bad NBA live team with a bunch of white boys around KD.

and move on to the fact that Westbrook should be able to average 25-8-8 vs. Derek Fisher and he's lucky they didn't put Kobe on him sooner. Oh and Nash averaged 18ppg/12apg vs LAL. Maybe it would have been nicer for Durant to have a better pure passer around?
Durant needs a better core, but that doesnt start by replacing the best teammate and prospect they have.

I'm comparing a total acquisition of Nash/Lee/Kaman to Shaq. I'd say that's more than balanced.
Nope. :)

Stockton's numbers dropped but his PER and effeciency rating were the same. His per 36 stats were basically the same too. Sloan just played him less minutes to save him for the playoffs. Feel free to go re-check. He was leading the league in offensive rating at age 38. In regards to Westbrook, I love that he's a 2way player but I don't like him as much as everyone else. I'll watch more of him next year and maybe he'll surprise me but I don't see him as being good enough to be Durant's #2 option.

lol he played him less because HE WAS OLD. He made 1 all star game his last 5 years in the league. Not only is Stockton an exception because of who he is.... he doesnt help your cause when trying to say "LOOK AT STOCKTON NASH WILL BE FINE."

Even if he's not Durant's #2 option, he's a guy you can build around at PG. You go and find the #2 option somewhere else, or you keep Westbrook so that you can spend your money somewhere else. Thats another thing that doesnt make sense, you're trading away young players for guys that make a **** ton of money. They'd be better served keeping their guys and spending their cap.

ChiSox219
08-16-2010, 01:20 AM
]
I've mentioned Thabo about 5 times already but whatever. If you are seriously bringing up MoPete and Cook to swing this debate then I've already won.



Do you know the value those guys bring to the team?


Is there a reason you addressed my least important point and failed to address the several more critical points?

SouthSideRookie
08-16-2010, 01:21 AM
There's no doubt that the Thunder have a good young nucleus, but why does everyone keep saying that they are just gonna improve and people try to project what the team is gonna turn out to be, does everyone not realize that there's other teams that are also gonna improve, I mean it's like every other team will stay stagnant and not grow and develop, and the Thunder will. On Westbrook playing well in the Lakers series, if you guys can remember the Rockets Lakers series when Brooks absoultely dismantled the Lakers defense, the Lakers have trouble guarding quick pg and pick and rolls, it might be a case where the Thunder just match up well againt the Lakers, btw Westbrook is better than Brooks.

SDBearsFan
08-16-2010, 01:23 AM
I think Durant is every bit legit as advertised.

tredigs
08-16-2010, 01:24 AM
:laugh: Why the edit? See this is why it's not worth debating with some people. Rather than give any real analysis you link some lame youtube clip. You have absolutely no way to assume the Thunder will truly contend for a title next year or any year in the next decade. NBA Players peak within their first 3 years. Anyone who follows the game knows that. Green ain't gettin any better. Westbrook ain't gettin that much better. Ibaka will be a VERY GOOD role player but he isn't not a game changer on both ends. That leaves Harden and Aldrich. Do I really believe that either one of them takes them to the finals? No. They don't have a true #2 option and in a year I hope all of you are back here so we can talk about how they wasted year 2 of elite Kevin Durant.

It's amazing to me that you can have this stance that a player peaks in their first three years (so far removed from reality that I'm not sure we can continue debating, btw) and simultaneously tout what a glowing success the Thunder would have been had they signed players such as Nash/Kaman/D. Lee.

I'll just keep it simple: Your thoughts on the Thunder are entirely off base and your logic is highly flawed. Please never pursue a career as a GM.

Sandman
08-16-2010, 01:24 AM
Do you know the value those guys bring to the team?


Is there a reason you addressed my least important point and failed to address the several more critical points?
because his only point is that he won the nba live 2010 title.

KnicksorBust
08-16-2010, 01:29 AM
It doesn't matter what their record was this year compared to 05 or 06, they were nowhere near the best team. Nash won the MVP as the best player on the best team when nobody else could distinguish themselves. Props to Nash

You're not only in the minority, you're alone.

"Greatest passers of all time" at 36.

Seriously where's JJ Redick? This looks like a bad NBA live team with a bunch of white boys around KD.

Durant needs a better core, but that doesnt start by replacing the best teammate and prospect they have.

Nope. :)


lol he played him less because HE WAS OLD. He made 1 all star game his last 5 years in the league. Not only is Stockton an exception because of who he is.... he doesnt help your cause when trying to say "LOOK AT STOCKTON NASH WILL BE FINE."

Even if he's not Durant's #2 option, he's a guy you can build around at PG. You go and find the #2 option somewhere else, or you keep Westbrook so that you can spend your money somewhere else. Thats another thing that doesnt make sense, you're trading away young players for guys that make a **** ton of money. They'd be better served keeping their guys and spending their cap.

Individually he was playing just as well as those other seasons. Instead of Joe Johnson and Shawn Marion, he was taking Channing Frye and Grant Hill to the WCF. That's damn impressive.

Stockton of course he helps my example. He was on cruise control all season, leading the league in effeciency and then the playoffs rolled around and his minutes went right back up . At 38 years old he was averaging 37mpg... which was...wait for it... MORE than Westbrook played this past postseason. I'm done arguing with you for tonight. You are just being annoying now. I prove you wrong with facts and you just start to ramble nonsensically about white boys and NBA Live? Wtf? :laugh: Not worth any more of my time.

mRc08
08-16-2010, 01:30 AM
shifting media attention from lebron to kd is great. Though early, it somewhat proves what the nets owner said about lebrons brand suffering. The season hasn't even started yet, and there has been more INDIVIDUAL hype for kd than lebron. Its funny but its just proof that lebron went from being the man to being just another NBA star, which he probably doesn't mind considering he had to have known this would happen. I say good for durant, he has already proved he cares about his city and his team, going to summer games and such. If you ask me, he already represents what everyone wanted lebron to be. This isn't to bash lebron, but he chose this...

KnicksorBust
08-16-2010, 01:35 AM
Do you know the value those guys bring to the team?


Is there a reason you addressed my least important point and failed to address the several more critical points?

Because clearly you aren't even reading my posts. I've complimented Thabo's defense multiple times in this thread and you told me I've ignored him.


It's amazing to me that you can have this stance that a player peaks in their first three years (so far removed from reality that I'm not sure we can continue debating, btw) and simultaneously tout what a glowing success the Thunder would have been had they signed players such as Nash/Kaman/D. Lee.

I'll just keep it simple: Your thoughts on the Thunder are entirely off base and your logic is highly flawed. Please never pursue a career as a GM.

Overall, your post was a joke. A general insulting statement with no foundation of proof. :laugh: My opinions are wrong because your opinions are right. Hang your hat on that post. Oh and I already clarified with Avenged that I did mean breakout instead of peak. Yes there are examples of players breaking out later in their career like Chauncey Billups but in general by year 3 you have an idea of the players career arc.

KnicksorBust
08-16-2010, 01:39 AM
There's no doubt that the Thunder have a good young nucleus, but why does everyone keep saying that they are just gonna improve and people try to project what the team is gonna turn out to be, does everyone not realize that there's other teams that are also gonna improve, I mean it's like every other team will stay stagnant and not grow and develop, and the Thunder will. On Westbrook playing well in the Lakers series, if you guys can remember the Rockets Lakers series when Brooks absoultely dismantled the Lakers defense, the Lakers have trouble guarding quick pg and pick and rolls, it might be a case where the Thunder just match up well againt the Lakers, btw Westbrook is better than Brooks.

Exactly. I was enjoying that series as much as anyone but just because they took them to 6 games doesn't necessarily translate to a title team in the next few years. The Hawks took the Celtics to a Game 7 during their title run in 07/08 and still haven't won a Semifinal game in either of the past two seasons.

ElMarroAfamado
08-16-2010, 01:43 AM
The media wasted 7 years in resources of non-stop hyping one young player as the best in the NBA, and soon to be greatest of ALL time, only for LeBron to fall short, and now they've found their new project: Kevin Durant.

How the media is so quick to hype the next young phenom is a little sickening and disrespectful. They insist on applying this "instant dominance" shtick to every young player and heralding them the greatest, but it does an injustice to all the great players who had to work hard and grind to reach an MVP or championship level and having all that work pay off with a title. Players like Jordan, Isiah, Hakeem, Shaq, and others I grew up watching put up Hall of Fame worthy numbers in their first 3-4 seasons and didn't receive this disgusting level of fan jockeying, and weren't crowned king until they finally won several years later.

What annoys me most is Durant seems like a humble guy who doesn't have these bold expectations or anything like that, but the media is doing this anyway, which makes me sort of wish he doesn't succeed just to continue to prove them wrong and hope they will stop doing this with every young player.


i saw your sig and just stopped reading...dont be mad cause lebrick (im sure you hated him before this season) could not live up to the hype...

tredigs
08-16-2010, 01:52 AM
Because clearly you aren't even reading my posts. I've complimented Thabo's defense multiple times in this thread and you told me I've ignored him.



Overall, your post was a joke. A general insulting statement with no foundation of proof. :laugh: My opinions are wrong because your opinions are right. Hang your hat on that post. Oh and I already clarified with Avenged that I did mean breakout instead of peak. Yes there are examples of players breaking out later in their career like Chauncey Billups but in general by year 3 you have an idea of the players career arc.

Haha no foundation of proof? You seem to be missing my point. STEVE NASH, CHRIS KAMAN and DAVID LEE all broke out (I missed that you re-worded your first claim, but my point still stands) AFTER their 3rd season.

Superstars often have their breakout year in their third year, though there are plenty of exceptions to that as well. And we're not talking about superstars in OKC, we're talking about building a great team. Logistics of making a trade like that aside (in what world would Steve Nash leave Phoenix to join a team that is in the earliest stages of their progress in Oklahoma City?? At the time you were talking about him coming in they were a 23 win team bro).

Cities like NY, LA and Chicago have the advantage of being able to draw big name free agents much easier than a city like Oklahoma City - which is what makes building through the draft such a brilliant blueprint for small market clubs. This is the first time we're seeing it done in the NBA at this level, but we're already seeing it done in Tampa Bay for baseball (incredibly small market and last place year after year until their elite farm system developed, and now they're perennial contenders playing in the toughest division in baseball even without being able to draw big name free agents and doing so at a fraction of the price).

This team is on the verge of blowing up, I've been saying it for about a year now that this is the year that it will start coming together, and I see no reason why that still won't be the case. Screwing with the chemistry of a team that has no reason to change a thing would be management suicide.

Sandman
08-16-2010, 02:13 AM
Individually he was playing just as well as those other seasons. Instead of Joe Johnson and Shawn Marion, he was taking Channing Frye and Grant Hill to the WCF. That's damn impressive.

Stockton of course he helps my example. He was on cruise control all season, leading the league in effeciency and then the playoffs rolled around and his minutes went right back up . At 38 years old he was averaging 37mpg... which was...wait for it... MORE than Westbrook played this past postseason. I'm done arguing with you for tonight. You are just being annoying now. I prove you wrong with facts and you just start to ramble nonsensically about white boys and NBA Live? Wtf? :laugh: Not worth any more of my time.
does this mean Marcin Gortat to the Thunder is out of the question? :(

hugepatsfan
08-16-2010, 03:56 AM
A player on a supposed path to being the GOAT is a great story. Now that Lebron backed out of it, ESPN is looking for a new actor. If Durant fails, they'll move on to the next one.

ee
08-16-2010, 04:43 AM
Lebron is a punk!!! That's all this is.....The media is hyping Durant so he won't punked up like Lebron.....

J-Relo
08-16-2010, 04:55 AM
don't see the hype... definitely not overrated

EdGein812
08-16-2010, 06:08 AM
If Lebron's career ended today, he would be considered as one of the greatest of all time, and he has a lot of years ahead of him. The greatest, no, but one of them.

And the NBA does a fantastic job of marketing. You need that star power. You need to get your elite superstars out there as much as possible. It's good business.

I just don't get your discontent. I assume you're just looking for something to bash, after all the criticism heaped your way in Miami. Maybe it's just me, but I don't see a constant whirlwind around Durant. He get's talked about but it's still nothing compared to Lebron and Miami and Kobe and LA, as it should be. I think you're trying to divert some criticism or something, I dunno.

EdGein812
08-16-2010, 06:27 AM
i saw your sig and just stopped reading...dont be mad cause lebrick (im sure you hated him before this season) could not live up to the hype...

What's your deal? Lebron is what? 24 years old? The guy has had a phenomenal career so far, and has been the best player in the league on a mediocre team. The only person on his level is Kobe, but look what he had around him. If Lebron was on that team, and Kobe was on Clevelands, Lebron would have the titles and Kobe wouldn't have ****. And I don't even like the guy, it's just the truth.

EdGein812
08-16-2010, 06:42 AM
i saw your sig and just stopped reading...dont be mad cause lebrick (im sure you hated him before this season) could not live up to the hype...

Lebrick? Sounds like you are the one who hates him...

Byronicle
08-16-2010, 08:32 AM
LOL wow says the Heat Fan

you think the rest of the league isn't sick about hearing the Big 3 in Miami? now that someone is talking a bit about Durant who is godly, you don't want that, if it ain't the Big 3 then you going to get all worked up and ****? Man that is just sad

Leave Durant alone you big bully

Jaji
08-16-2010, 10:40 AM
Kevin Durant is the 3rd best player in basketball right now. Who should the media hype? Rudy Gay?

Baller1
08-16-2010, 01:19 PM
Because clearly you aren't even reading my posts. I've complimented Thabo's defense multiple times in this thread and you told me I've ignored him.



Overall, your post was a joke. A general insulting statement with no foundation of proof. :laugh: My opinions are wrong because your opinions are right. Hang your hat on that post. Oh and I already clarified with Avenged that I did mean breakout instead of peak. Yes there are examples of players breaking out later in their career like Chauncey Billups but in general by year 3 you have an idea of the players career arc.

Sometimes it's unnecessary to provide proof, because ast times a claim becomes so far fetched that it's almost useless to debate against.

The fact that you really believe a player will peak/breakout by the third year is so ridiculous. What was your sample size to come up with that inference? Kevin Durant, one player? Because I still can't get over the fact that you really believe that.

Bivory
08-16-2010, 01:20 PM
When you're 21 yrs old and you lead the league in scoring, isn't it inevitable that the media will latch on? Don't you think he deserves all of it...I do. How are you tired of Durant talk but ok with the Miami fiasco?

KnicksorBust
08-16-2010, 01:51 PM
Sometimes it's unnecessary to provide proof, because ast times a claim becomes so far fetched that it's almost useless to debate against.

The fact that you really believe a player will peak/breakout by the third year is so ridiculous. What was your sample size to come up with that inference? Kevin Durant, one player? Because I still can't get over the fact that you really believe that.

My argument is that the Thunder have too many young players and should package 2-3 of them to acquire at least one All-Star. If that's too radical for you to handle then don't quote my posts.

I believe players breakout by the third year because that's what elite players have been doing since the dawn of basketball. Look at the stars of the past few years. Guys like Duncan, Dirk, LeBron, Wade, Bosh, Kobe, Shaq, they all came into the league and either started dominating right away or took their leap on year 3. Look specifically at guys like Wade, Kobe, Dirk, and Bosh for a marked spike in their third season. There are always late bloomers or guys don't find the right situation until later in their careers but for the most part it's a pretty safe bet that a star player would emerge within their first 3 years.

Sandman
08-16-2010, 01:57 PM
So you bail on Westbrook after a stellar 2 seasons at 20 and 21? What happened to the 3rd year theory.

I can't follow the circular logic anymore.

KnicksorBust
08-16-2010, 02:20 PM
So you bail on Westbrook after a stellar 2 seasons at 20 and 21? What happened to the 3rd year theory.

I can't follow the circular logic anymore.

Yes because bailing on him is trading him for a 2x Regular Season MVP. Even if you don't like Nash the argument and reason are clear. You can't follow the logic is because you've never grasped my point from the beginning. You are too busy whining about how old Nash is and never addressing the real issues or backing anything you say up with facts.

Why have 6 young talented players surrounding your 21 year old superstar when you could potentially have 3-4 young talented players + an all-star or two surrounding your 21 year old superstar? The second scenario allows to you win now and in the future. Durant has the talent to lead a balanced (balanced meaning experienced and with a true frontcourt) team past the first round now. Yet right now, he doesn't have that team in OKC. It's too inexperienced and this will be Year 2 of Kevin Durant's wasted superstardom. A first round playoff exit this year should be considered a failure and that's what I expect out of them again this year.

tredigs
08-16-2010, 02:25 PM
Yes because bailing on him is trading him for a 2x Regular Season MVP. Even if you don't like Nash the argument and reason are clear. You can't follow the logic is because you've never grasped my point from the beginning. You are too busy whining about how old Nash is and never addressing the real issues or backing anything you say up with facts.

Why have 6 young talented players surrounding your 21 year old superstar when you could potentially have 3-4 young talented players + an all-star or two surrounding your 21 year old superstar? The second scenario allows to you win now and in the future. Durant has the talent to lead a balanced (balanced meaning experienced and with a true frontcourt) team past the first round now. Yet right now, he doesn't have that team in OKC. It's too inexperienced and this will be Year 2 of Kevin Durant's wasted superstardom. A first round playoff exit this year should be considered a failure and that's what I expect out of them again this year.

Read my previous post on the last page - I addressed everything here and outlined what it is you're not getting.

edit: Bottom line is that if Serge+Aldrich doesn't look like it's ready to pan out quite yet (but everyone else is) and they still feel the need to trade for a low post presence, they can do so at the trade deadline. There is absolutely zero reason to rush into it. And trading Westbrook + Green or Harden for anything less than a Deron Williams or Chris Paul would just be stupidity. You're incredibly low on that kid for some reason, and I'm not sure why.

I'm curious, if they had D. Rose on their team rather than Russ, would you still be pushing for this immediate trade? Because that is essentially what they have (Rose having the edge offensively, and Westbrook defensively).

mikealike305
08-16-2010, 02:26 PM
KD is reallyy good.... i'd say 4th or 5th best player in the NBA

BOSTON617
08-16-2010, 02:27 PM
this thread is absurd esp coming form a heat fann.. ur mad because lebron the player who has been talked about the most and is still talked about the most since he was drafted.... Is about to get his throne taking away from the real king of the nba the player who is a leader of histeam... a player who is humble and not self centered... i would root for kd anyday i wouldnt even be mad if he beat the celtics in the finals love the kid think he deserves it way more then lebron and notice kd isnt bragging going around saying how good he is he isnt a media whore.... lebron is a cry baby who cant do it himself, durant is a leader who not only his teammate but the whole league looks up to

mikealike305
08-16-2010, 02:32 PM
why does every thread on this forum turn into an anti heat or anti lebron thread? even a thread about KD, which is in the west... a different conf. stay on topic guys... save your hate for the thread made for that

Pierzynski4Prez
08-16-2010, 02:36 PM
is someone upset that the media isn't all over LBJ's nutsack anymore?

Sandman
08-16-2010, 02:39 PM
I'm curious, if they had D. Rose on their team rather than Russ, would you still be pushing for this immediate trade? Because that is essentially what they have (Rose having the edge offensively, and Westbrook defensively).

Well, dude, you have to consider that Derrick Rose hasn't had a breakout season. And seeing as its already his 4th season, he's probably never going to be better than what he is now. 21 years old, all down hill from here. Gotta lock up the 2x MVP Steve Nash, they don't call them golden years for nothing.

BOSTON617
08-16-2010, 02:39 PM
why does every thread on this forum turn into an anti heat or anti lebron thread? even a thread about KD, which is in the west... a different conf. stay on topic guys... save your hate for the thread made for that

because heat fans always ask for it ;)

Sandman
08-16-2010, 02:40 PM
why does every thread on this forum turn into an anti heat or anti lebron thread? even a thread about KD, which is in the west... a different conf. stay on topic guys... save your hate for the thread made for that

idk, I hate seeing random threads go awry or get hijacked, but I think the first post was asking for it.

KnicksorBust
08-16-2010, 02:59 PM
Read my previous post on the last page - I addressed everything here and outlined what it is you're not getting.

edit: Bottom line is that if Serge+Aldrich doesn't look like it's ready to pan out quite yet (but everyone else is) and they still feel the need to trade for a low post presence, they can do so at the trade deadline. There is absolutely zero reason to rush into it. And trading Westbrook + Green or Harden for anything less than a Deron Williams or Chris Paul would just be stupidity. You're incredibly low on that kid for some reason, and I'm not sure why.

I'm curious, if they had D. Rose on their team rather than Russ, would you still be pushing for this immediate trade? Because that is essentially what they have (Rose having the edge offensively, and Westbrook defensively).

I get your side of the argument. You believe Westbrook is an elite PG and a #2 option. You believe Jeff Green is Rashard Lewis which makes him a nice #3 option. James Harden is a great 6th man with upside. You have defensive role players like Thabo and Ibaka. And you believe Cole Aldrich, a late lottery pick will pan out to be a legit starting center. That's the root of the whole discussion. I think your outlook is very optimistic and some of these players will fall short of those expectations. In the next year or two they are also going to have to take those young players that you love so much and re-sign them to bigger contracts. This will take away that precious salary cap space that is so valuable. It reminds me of Brandon Roy in Portland. Two years ago they were riding high on 54 wins and had all these young pieces. Batum, Bayless, Sergio, Fernandez, Oden, Aldridge. Imagine the type of player they could have gotten for a package of 2-3 of those guys. Now the value of most of those players has dropped significantly. Their window to make a big impact move was lost and they had to settle for Andre Miller in FA? Even though they were decimated with injuries they still found a way to win 50 games. The majority of people applaud Kevin Pritchard. Myself included. I think he and Presti are geniuses for all the talent they've assembled. That doesn't change the fact that I also don't believe either team can breakthrough and win a title and when you have an elite player like a Brandon Roy or (even better) a Kevin Durant, why not make that push? Pat Riley realized what he had in Dwyane Wade and jumped at the opportunity to win a ring. Then he proved his genius again by re-tooling the whole roster and building what looks like a dynasty. The Thunder have even better younger talent than either one of those teams. They can make a big trade AND still have a young core. We're not going to change each others mind. You are very optimistic and I look at don't see anyone good enough to help Durant like Gasol helps Kobe. Or like LeBron and Wade will help each other. We'll talk again next year. If you are right I'll be the first to say congratulations. I just don't see it.


Well, dude, you have to consider that Derrick Rose hasn't had a breakout season. And seeing as its already his 4th season, he's probably never going to be better than what he is now. 21 years old, all down hill from here. Gotta lock up the 2x MVP Steve Nash, they don't call them golden years for nothing.

:laugh: Thank you for proving my point in my last post with another useless reply that makes no argument whatsoever. Is that your style? Biting sarcasm with no real content? You'd think someone who has been on the site this long would have learned to actual analyze and respond to a debate.

Avenged
08-16-2010, 02:59 PM
Rose is entering his 3rd year not 4th. Same with Russell.

I mean comparing both those players, Rose averaged 4 more points than Russell as the 1st option. Russell averaged more assists, rebounds, and both played basically the same amount of minutes.

Rose FG% is a bit higher than Russell's though. I mean, they're pretty even, only that Rose is showing faster signs of improvement at this point.

If you switch Rose with Westbrook, what you will get is pretty much the same team with more offense (which they don't need) and lose some defense (which every team needs).

The whole trading for Nash was ridiculous.

Lee and Kaman aren't needed in OKC.

As young as they are, they also showed a lot of promise and potential. There's no need to get rid of what they have for a 36 year old PG who's window is near shut.

mikealike305
08-16-2010, 03:05 PM
is someone upset that the media isn't all over LBJ's nutsack anymore?

?

Sandman
08-16-2010, 03:43 PM
nah, I gave up on the circular logic a while ago.

Like I said, you're not in the minority. You're alone.

Baller1
08-16-2010, 04:03 PM
Rose is entering his 3rd year not 4th. Same with Russell.

I mean comparing both those players, Rose averaged 4 more points than Russell as the 1st option. Russell averaged more assists, rebounds, and both played basically the same amount of minutes.

Rose FG% is a bit higher than Russell's though. I mean, they're pretty even, only that Rose is showing faster signs of improvement at this point.

If you switch Rose with Westbrook, what you will get is pretty much the same team with more offense (which they don't need) and lose some defense (which every team needs).

The whole trading for Nash was ridiculous.

Lee and Kaman aren't needed in OKC.

As young as they are, they also showed a lot of promise and potential. There's no need to get rid of what they have for a 36 year old PG who's window is near shut.

I'm agreeing with a Laker fan on a relatively routine basis. What's going on?

KnicksorBust
08-16-2010, 06:19 PM
Rose is entering his 3rd year not 4th. Same with Russell.

I mean comparing both those players, Rose averaged 4 more points than Russell as the 1st option. Russell averaged more assists, rebounds, and both played basically the same amount of minutes.

Rose FG% is a bit higher than Russell's though. I mean, they're pretty even, only that Rose is showing faster signs of improvement at this point.

If you switch Rose with Westbrook, what you will get is pretty much the same team with more offense (which they don't need) and lose some defense (which every team needs).

The whole trading for Nash was ridiculous.

Lee and Kaman aren't needed in OKC.

As young as they are, they also showed a lot of promise and potential. There's no need to get rid of what they have for a 36 year old PG who's window is near shut.

Rose vs. Westbrook has been discussed ad nauseum on this site. It's irrelevant. Not to mention we have no idea how either play would play if the situations were reserved. Would Rose be worse if he didn't get as many scoring opportunities? Would Westbrook be better if he had more?

The rest is purely your own speculation. Lee and Kaman aren't needed? Child Please. They could provide a lot for a team like the Thunder who could use some more consistency and scoring from their frontcourt but if you'd rather start Nenad Krstic then that's your own fault.

TheTakeOver24
08-16-2010, 06:23 PM
KD definitely deserves the attention, its up to the people who watch ESPN to not be blinded by the hype.

SurGiiCaL
08-16-2010, 06:29 PM
Kevin Durant will be the greatest player in the NBA watch in a few years.

tredigs
08-16-2010, 06:31 PM
Rose vs. Westbrook has been discussed ad nauseum on this site. It's irrelevant. Not to mention we have no idea how either play would play if the situations were reserved. Would Rose be worse if he didn't get as many scoring opportunities? Would Westbrook be better if he had more?

The rest is purely your own speculation. Lee and Kaman aren't needed? Child Please. They could provide a lot for a team like the Thunder who could use some more consistency and scoring from their frontcourt but if you'd rather start Nenad Krstic then that's your own fault.

Going into next season, Aldrich and Ibaka are ALREADY better than Kaman + Lee defensively, and it's by a very large margin. Sacrificing the development and very evident potential of those two for the likes of huge defensive liabilities in the post would be a huge mistake (and I say that as a Warriors fan who now has Lee). They don't need bulk scoring with average efficiency out of their post, they need rebounders and defensive monsters who can get the occasional buckets. That's what they have.

You're way too impressed with Chris Kaman and his "All Star" season (can we even consider the 3rd injury sub replacement to a team an all star?), the guy is not a great player and he's not someone that is going to gel well with a team like OKC that is building a defensive foundation first and foremost.

You really just... don't get it, man. And that's fine, I can respect your opinions. But you're wrong.

edit:

Like I've said plenty of times, if they think that the team is ready to contend this season (and only their post is holding them up), then they still have the flexibility (money + either Green or Harden, most likely) of a deadline trade (NOT for a guy like Kaman or Lee, though). But something tells me they won't need that trade.

Avenged
08-16-2010, 06:41 PM
Rose vs. Westbrook has been discussed ad nauseum on this site. It's irrelevant. Not to mention we have no idea how either play would play if the situations were reserved. Would Rose be worse if he didn't get as many scoring opportunities? Would Westbrook be better if he had more?

The rest is purely your own speculation. Lee and Kaman aren't needed? Child Please. They could provide a lot for a team like the Thunder who could use some more consistency and scoring from their frontcourt but if you'd rather start Nenad Krstic then that's your own fault.

I'm speculating?

What do you call "Nash on the OKC would make them instant title contenders"

"Adding Lee or Kaman would make them title contenders"..

All of that is "exaggerating" speculations. Granted that Nash perhaps would, for another year or so.. Which isn't even fair considering Westbrook will give them much longer time.

Of course nobody knows the scenarios until it actually happens. I can do the same to you: Will Steve Nash mesh well with Durant? Will he break down next season? Will Kaman and Lee learn how to play good defense?

Obviously those guys are better than Nenad, but acquiring those players won't come cheap. They'd have to give up a player not named Nenad to land them.. Which is too much of a sacrifice since what they have is actually working.

Your an offense orientated kind of guy, and that's fine. But championship teams needs defense, and they'd be losing it by acquiring the players you've mentioned.

Baller1
08-16-2010, 06:44 PM
Going into next season, Aldrich and Ibaka are ALREADY better than Kaman + Lee defensively, and it's by a very large margin. Sacrificing the development and very evident potential of those two for the likes of huge defensive liabilities in the post would be a huge mistake (and I say that as a Warriors fan who now has Lee). They don't need bulk scoring with average efficiency out of their post, they need rebounders and defensive monsters who can get the occasional buckets. That's what they have.

You're way too impressed with Chris Kaman and his "All Star" season (can we even consider the 3rd injury sub replacement to a team an all star?), the guy is not a great player and he's not someone that is going to gel well with a team like OKC that is building a defensive foundation first and foremost.

You really just... don't get it, man. And that's fine, I can respect your opinions. But you're wrong.

edit:

Like I've said plenty of times, if they think that the team is ready to contend this season (and only their post is holding them up), then they still have the flexibility (money + either Green or Harden, most likely) of a deadline trade (NOT for a guy like Kaman or Lee, though). But something tells me they won't need that trade.

Andrew Bogut or Kendrick Perkins...

:drool:

Avenged
08-16-2010, 06:50 PM
Andrew Bogut or Kendrick Perkins...

:drool:

............ DJ Mbenga.. :)

tredigs
08-16-2010, 06:56 PM
Andrew Bogut or Kendrick Perkins...

:drool:

YES. That would be a good call. Especially Bogut (who surprisingly, didn't break out until he was 25 and in his 5th year...).

Baller1
08-16-2010, 07:12 PM
............ DJ Mbenga.. :)

That was going to be my third choice.

lakerfan3118
08-16-2010, 07:13 PM
Your opinion. Really the Nash trade is the only thing you could even debate was unrealistic. Signing Lee was definately possible. They had the cap and he only signed for $7 million. Meanwhile, the Clippers were trying bad to unload Kaman when they were stuck with Camby and about to draft Blake Griffin so they would have jumped at the chance to take Green. Finally, Nash had rumors of leaving all summer and the Suns had just missed the playoffs for the first time with him on the roster. If they already had Lee and Kaman on board I'm sure both sides would have been agreeable to a Westbrook for Nash swap.


Signing Lee would have been possible, yes, but there was a reason he was among the last major free agents to sign this offseason. The Thunder did not want to take a chance on him, as did a slew of other teams, because of his play style and the outrageous contract demands Lee had that would have crippled the team financially. Frankly, passing on him was the right move and the FA suitors of Summer 2010 to the exception of Golden State would agree.

As for your Kaman proposition, that's riddled with faulty logic, so we'll try to clear that up as cleanly as possible. It is true that the Clippers had a log-jam at the Center position last year, but there was really no argument over who was going to be traded at the deadline. Camby was an expiring contract and the Clippers had no intention of re-signing him at the end of the year; furthermore, keeping Kaman was a necessity because Los Angeles' free agent prospects for the 2010 offseason looked dim at best. Additionally, your argument that the Clippers wanted to unload his contract at the end of the year also makes no sense because they already had (and still have) plenty of cap space and, more importantly, his contract has a 15% trade kicker that would prevent him from being traded anyways. Not to mention that, at least statistically, his contract is relatively reasonable.

..so yes, all 3 of your proposed transactions are unrealistic at best; and suffice to say, the fact that we're arguing these points when those 3 players wearing OKC uniforms is and has always been well outside the realm of possibility says enough.

Baller1
08-16-2010, 07:14 PM
YES. That would be a good call. Especially Bogut (who surprisingly, didn't break out until he was 25 and in his 5th year...).

Are you sure? I thought you weren't allowed to breakout after your third season?

minervamob
08-16-2010, 07:26 PM
This is stupid. Whats the problem with giving Durant some recognition? He plays in a small market and doesnt get shown on national tv a lot. Thats all going to change. The casual basketball fan doesnt really know him yet. If my wife doesnt know him yet then he needs more marketting. Lebron has tons of marketing. Sounds to me like a jealous lbj fan. There ARE other players in the league deservent of attention.

Wade>You
08-16-2010, 07:37 PM
The average fans likes their best players to be one-dimensional inefficient volume shooters.

tredigs
08-16-2010, 07:42 PM
The average fans likes their best players to be one-dimensional inefficient volume shooters.

Are you talking about Durant? He was one of the most efficient scorers in NBA history last season. Only 4 other players have ever put up 30ppg with >.600ts%

And his defense went from sub-par to nearing elite in a matter of one year. Very solid rebounder, as well. I'm lost.

KnicksorBust
08-16-2010, 08:13 PM
Going into next season, Aldrich and Ibaka are ALREADY better than Kaman + Lee defensively, and it's by a very large margin. Sacrificing the development and very evident potential of those two for the likes of huge defensive liabilities in the post would be a huge mistake (and I say that as a Warriors fan who now has Lee). They don't need bulk scoring with average efficiency out of their post, they need rebounders and defensive monsters who can get the occasional buckets. That's what they have.

You're way too impressed with Chris Kaman and his "All Star" season (can we even consider the 3rd injury sub replacement to a team an all star?), the guy is not a great player and he's not someone that is going to gel well with a team like OKC that is building a defensive foundation first and foremost.

You really just... don't get it, man. And that's fine, I can respect your opinions. But you're wrong.

edit:

Like I've said plenty of times, if they think that the team is ready to contend this season (and only their post is holding them up), then they still have the flexibility (money + either Green or Harden, most likely) of a deadline trade (NOT for a guy like Kaman or Lee, though). But something tells me they won't need that trade.

The fact that I'm still clarifying my point is mind numbing. I'm not in this thread to champion the skills of Kaman and Nash. They are simply examples of the type of players that could have propelled the Thunder this season and in the future. Durant is too talented to waste his superstardom. People want to hide behind the fact that he's 21 and has unlimitted time. Why rush it? I've already shown examples with the Bulls, Blazers, and Heat why I disagree with that idea. If he's ready now, he's ready now. I'd rather make a push now, have a title window and then if necessary retool and push again. If you do win that title then it becomes even easier to retool because you get ring chasers. This year's Heat is a prime example of the lengths players will go to in order to join a winner.


I'm speculating?

What do you call "Nash on the OKC would make them instant title contenders"

"Adding Lee or Kaman would make them title contenders"..

All of that is "exaggerating" speculations. Granted that Nash perhaps would, for another year or so.. Which isn't even fair considering Westbrook will give them much longer time.

Of course nobody knows the scenarios until it actually happens. I can do the same to you: Will Steve Nash mesh well with Durant? Will he break down next season? Will Kaman and Lee learn how to play good defense?

Obviously those guys are better than Nenad, but acquiring those players won't come cheap. They'd have to give up a player not named Nenad to land them.. Which is too much of a sacrifice since what they have is actually working.

Your an offense orientated kind of guy, and that's fine. But championship teams needs defense, and they'd be losing it by acquiring the players you've mentioned.

I don't think I'm speculating too much by assuming that a team that won 50 games would have won more if they had replaced two of their young guns with three 3 all-star caliber players. Would an incredibly effecient pass-first PG mesh with Kevin Durant? Again, is that really a tough question to answer? At this point I'm done arguing the skills of the trio that I mentioned. My point is clear and I'll be here to revisit this topic at the end of next season.


Andrew Bogut or Kendrick Perkins...

:drool:

This is the type of aggressive move that I'd love to see the Thunder make.


YES. That would be a good call. Especially Bogut (who surprisingly, didn't break out until he was 25 and in his 5th year...).

:rolleyes:
Andrew Bogut in Year 1 - 9.4 PPG / 7.0 RPG / 0.8 BPG / Shooting 53% FG
Andrew Bogut in Year 2 - 12.3 PPG / 8.3 RPG / 0.5 BPG / Shooting 55% FG
Andrew Bogut in Year 3 - 14.4 PPG / 9.8 RPG / 1.7 BPG / Shooting 51% FG
Andrew Bogut in Year 5 - 15.9 PPG / 10.2 RPG / 2.5 BPG / Shooting 52% FG

Baller1
08-16-2010, 08:21 PM
The fact that I'm still clarifying my point is mind numbing. I'm not in this thread to champion the skills of Kaman and Nash. They are simply examples of the type of players that could have propelled the Thunder this season and in the future. Durant is too talented to waste his superstardom. People want to hide behind the fact that he's 21 and has unlimitted time. Why rush it? I've already shown examples with the Bulls, Blazers, and Heat why I disagree with that idea. If he's ready now, he's ready now. I'd rather make a push now, have a title window and then if necessary retool and push again. If you do win that title then it becomes even easier to retool because you get ring chasers. This year's Heat is a prime example of the lengths players will go to in order to join a winner.



I don't think I'm speculating too much by assuming that a team that won 50 games would have won more if they had replaced two of their young guns with three 3 all-star caliber players. Would an incredibly effecient pass-first PG mesh with Kevin Durant? Again, is that really a tough question to answer? At this point I'm done arguing the skills of the trio that I mentioned. My point is clear and I'll be here to revisit this topic at the end of next season.



This is the type of aggressive move that I'd love to see the Thunder make.



:rolleyes:
Andrew Bogut in Year 1 - 9.4 PPG / 7.0 RPG / 0.8 BPG / Shooting 53% FG
Andrew Bogut in Year 2 - 12.3 PPG / 8.3 RPG / 0.5 BPG / Shooting 55% FG
Andrew Bogut in Year 3 - 14.4 PPG / 9.8 RPG / 1.7 BPG / Shooting 51% FG
Andrew Bogut in Year 5 - 15.9 PPG / 10.2 RPG / 2.5 BPG / Shooting 52% FG

Atleast we can agree on something, I want Kendrick Perkins on this team so bad.

Avenged
08-16-2010, 08:25 PM
I thought you wanted Mbenga :pity:

Baller1
08-16-2010, 08:26 PM
I thought you wanted Mbenga :pity:

I'm thinking realistically.







Mbenga is just too talented to let go... :p

tredigs
08-16-2010, 08:31 PM
The fact that I'm still clarifying my point is mind numbing. I'm not in this thread to champion the skills of Kaman and Nash. They are simply examples of the type of players that could have propelled the Thunder this season and in the future. Durant is too talented to waste his superstardom. People want to hide behind the fact that he's 21 and has unlimitted time. Why rush it? I've already shown examples with the Bulls, Blazers, and Heat why I disagree with that idea. If he's ready now, he's ready now. I'd rather make a push now, have a title window and then if necessary retool and push again. If you do win that title then it becomes even easier to retool because you get ring chasers. This year's Heat is a prime example of the lengths players will go to in order to join a winner.



I don't think I'm speculating too much by assuming that a team that won 50 games would have won more if they had replaced two of their young guns with three 3 all-star caliber players. Would an incredibly effecient pass-first PG mesh with Kevin Durant? Again, is that really a tough question to answer? At this point I'm done arguing the skills of the trio that I mentioned. My point is clear and I'll be here to revisit this topic at the end of next season.



This is the type of aggressive move that I'd love to see the Thunder make.



:rolleyes:
Andrew Bogut in Year 1 - 9.4 PPG / 7.0 RPG / 0.8 BPG / Shooting 53% FG
Andrew Bogut in Year 2 - 12.3 PPG / 8.3 RPG / 0.5 BPG / Shooting 55% FG
Andrew Bogut in Year 3 - 14.4 PPG / 9.8 RPG / 1.7 BPG / Shooting 51% FG
Andrew Bogut in Year 5 - 15.9 PPG / 10.2 RPG / 2.5 BPG / Shooting 52% FG

I am beyond the point of clarifying why a move was either not necessary, not possible, or just plain horrible to make (for your three examples of Nash/Kaman/D.Lee; Who all peaked after year three, by the way - I noticed you ignored that once again), and why there is no rush to make any significant change until at least the deadline - if at all. Beyond that, it's not that easy to sign elite all around bigs who can defend (while still keeping money to resign future free agents) to a city like OKC, in case that was a question.

By the way, Bogut's numbers were similar (before the dip in production before his injury in year 4) - but his defense was not there yet- and that was why his 5th season was his breakout year (and not coincidentally the season where he as an All Star, All league and was in the Defensive POY voting). Bogut >>> Lee or Kaman. That should have been your initial example, if you wanted to make that point.

Anyway, it's pointless to try and continue this - you obviously are alone on your side of the fence and refuse to see the logic of us and the Thunder organization, so we'll just have to see how it all plays out and discuss this again next season.

lakerfan3118
08-16-2010, 08:36 PM
I don't think I'm speculating too much by assuming that a team that won 50 games would have won more if they had replaced two of their young guns with three 3 all-star caliber players. Would an incredibly effecient pass-first PG mesh with Kevin Durant? Again, is that really a tough question to answer? At this point I'm done arguing the skills of the trio that I mentioned.

I still can't believe no one has held you accountable for the small fact that neither one of those 3 players had any chance of joining in the Thunder in the past 2 years. At this point, I'm glad you're done arguing the skills of the trio you mentioned because there is no point in arguing a fallacy.

...and before you say Lee could have been signed this offseason, may I remind you that only Golden State was desparate enough to make a realistic inquiry for him. Had they not, he still may be looking for a job now. Hardly a player the Thunder would want to make a large financial commitment to.

Avenged
08-16-2010, 08:36 PM
I'm thinking realistically.







Mbenga is just too talented to let go... :p

OKC is in luck, he's a free agent and no team has taken a chance on him since he's too talented to be on a team. I mean, 2 back to back rings is too difficult to top. Maybe OKC could lure him in..

DeyAce
08-16-2010, 08:44 PM
ESPN are a bunch of **** blocks, end of story.

KnicksorBust
08-16-2010, 09:56 PM
Just so we're all clarified for when I'm right next year about another good but inevitably lost season... None of you would be pursuing trades for any of these young players? You all want to keep all 6-7 of their young guns together and make the same mistake the Blazers and Baby Bulls did and not make a move similar to what the Miami Heat did when they won.

Avenged
08-16-2010, 09:59 PM
Just so we're all clarified for when I'm right next year about another good but inevitably lost season... None of you would be pursuing trades for any of these young players? You all want to keep all 6-7 of their young guns together and make the same mistake the Blazers and Baby Bulls did and not make a move similar to what the Miami Heat did when they won.

The Thunder will lose next season.

With the trades you proposed, they would have still lost.

They will not get past the Lakers out West..

If they do, they're going to have a hard time facing the Celtics defense and the Heat's fire power.

Their time is not there yet, but it will be soon.

KnicksorBust
08-16-2010, 10:08 PM
The Thunder will lose next season.

With the trades you proposed, they would have still lost.

They will not get past the Lakers out West..

If they do, they're going to have a hard time facing the Celtics defense and the Heat's fire power.

Their time is not there yet, but it will be soon.

:bang: I can only explain my point so many times.

I can easily argue that Nash - Thabo - Durant - Lee - Kaman (with Harden / Ibaka/etc off the bench) would be closer to winning a ring than the current lineup but that's not the point. The point is I've seen two offseasons go by where I felt the Thunder were too passive. They have too much youth and not enough experienced talented veterans. Their frontcourt needs to be addressed. The question is simple: Should they be looking to trade package some of their youth for an upgrade or not?

Baller1
08-16-2010, 10:58 PM
:bang: I can only explain my point so many times.

I can easily argue that Nash - Thabo - Durant - Lee - Kaman (with Harden / Ibaka/etc off the bench) would be closer to winning a ring than the current lineup but that's not the point. The point is I've seen two offseasons go by where I felt the Thunder were too passive. They have too much youth and not enough experienced talented veterans. Their frontcourt needs to be addressed. The question is simple: Should they be looking to trade package some of their youth for an upgrade or not?

Yes, but only if it's the right deal. Not Chris Kaman or David Lee.

tredigs
08-16-2010, 11:00 PM
:bang: I can only explain my point so many times.

I can easily argue that Nash - Thabo - Durant - Lee - Kaman (with Harden / Ibaka/etc off the bench) would be closer to winning a ring than the current lineup but that's not the point. The point is I've seen two offseasons go by where I felt the Thunder were too passive. They have too much youth and not enough experienced talented veterans. Their frontcourt needs to be addressed. The question is simple: Should they be looking to trade package some of their youth for an upgrade or not?

I'm just starting to laugh at you, at this point. #1 you act as if these players would all be available and willing to sign to play for OKC with the push of a button - and #2 you really don't get that this absolutely decimates a teams future and STILL does not make them a championship level squad.

Championship level teams do need to play defense. You realize this, right? Nash, Kaman and Lee are all horrible defenders.... again, you realize this, right?

This is why even if 'Melo goes to NY before the season begins, they will still fall short of being a contender.

There's a reason why 'Melo/Nash/Kaman/Lee/Nowitzki (insert # 1 option offensive power who doesn't play D here) never make it to the finals, and it's because they (and their teams) are almost always sub-par defensively.

How far the Thunder go this year will be dependent on the health of the Blazers/Rockets/Lakers (all obviously much tougher if their elite centers are healthy), and just how big of an impact Ibaka + Aldrich are ready to offer. It also depends if they decide to make a deadline trade for an impact big (which, you seem to not be getting is still a very real possibility and no doubt in the back of Presti's mind. This would not include an abhorrent defender like Lee or Kaman, tho').

My projection = top 4 seed and winning their first playoff series.
Beyond that, it's too soon to predict. I'll let you know more come the All Star break.

PS: I am SO glad you do not have Sam Presti's job, because I am having too much fun watching this organization build and develop so brilliantly.

tredigs
08-16-2010, 11:15 PM
PS: Sorry I'm dishing you a nasty tone, but I'm legitimately annoyed that someone can be so dismissive of how smart their plan has been so far, and isn't cognitive of what a disaster something like what you proposed would be (the fact that it wasn't possible aside).

By the way, you're also sleeping on Serge Ibaka. This kid is one of the most ridiculous athletic freaks I've seen come through the league from the block. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PezbhgRw62Y

^That's his rookie year where he was raw as hell... kidding me? He's going to be a BEAST.

You're right that I am definitely optimistic about them, but I really don't see any reason not to be.

ChiSox219
08-16-2010, 11:30 PM
PS: Sorry I'm dishing you a nasty tone, but I'm legitimately annoyed that someone can be so dismissive of how smart their plan has been so far, and isn't cognitive of what a disaster something like what you proposed would be (the fact that it wasn't possible aside).

By the way, you're also sleeping on Serge Ibaka. This kid is one of the most ridiculous athletic freaks I've seen come through the league from the block. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PezbhgRw62Y

^That's his rookie year where he was raw as hell... kidding me? He's going to be a BEAST.

You're right that I am definitely optimistic about them, but I really don't see any reason not to be.

Burn.


:clap:

Baller1
08-16-2010, 11:42 PM
PS: Sorry I'm dishing you a nasty tone, but I'm legitimately annoyed that someone can be so dismissive of how smart their plan has been so far, and isn't cognitive of what a disaster something like what you proposed would be (the fact that it wasn't possible aside).

By the way, you're also sleeping on Serge Ibaka. This kid is one of the most ridiculous athletic freaks I've seen come through the league from the block. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PezbhgRw62Y

^That's his rookie year where he was raw as hell... kidding me? He's going to be a BEAST.

You're right that I am definitely optimistic about them, but I really don't see any reason not to be.

Nice post.

But more importantly, the song in that video is ****ing terrible. Oh my god.

BkOriginalOne
08-16-2010, 11:53 PM
I think Durant is great. But scoring a lot of points doesn't make you an MVP.

Where's Tmac's MVP?

tredigs
08-16-2010, 11:59 PM
Nice post.

But more importantly, the song in that video is ****ing terrible. Oh my god.

Yeah I'm sitting there wondering how a Serge Ibaka block/dunk mix gets coupled with that. Steve Nash cut passes with him smiling like a school kid the whole time? Sure. But c'mon now. This is Le Serge!

Hilarious how in the first few blocks he ends up flying all over the place, half the time because he's jumping over players' heads.

Have you seen his dunk contest video from Europe the year before he came to the NBA where he just flushes it with some ease from the free throw line? Telling you, he's not human.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52texkIM4rk&feature=player_embedded#!
^he starts around the 1:40 mark.

Baller1
08-17-2010, 04:26 AM
Yeah I'm sitting there wondering how a Serge Ibaka block/dunk mix gets coupled with that. Steve Nash cut passes with him smiling like a school kid the whole time? Sure. But c'mon now. This is Le Serge!

Hilarious how in the first few blocks he ends up flying all over the place, half the time because he's jumping over players' heads.

Have you seen his dunk contest video from Europe the year before he came to the NBA where he just flushes it with some ease from the free throw line? Telling you, he's not human.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52texkIM4rk&feature=player_embedded#!
^he starts around the 1:40 mark.

Edit: I don't know what the **** I was saying. I was wasted.

KnicksorBust
08-17-2010, 11:08 AM
Yes, but only if it's the right deal. Not Chris Kaman or David Lee.

:clap: Good luck to your team. I hope they do make a big move and get a proper re-match vs. the Lakers ... only this team in the WCF.


I'm just starting to laugh at you, at this point. #1 you act as if these players would all be available and willing to sign to play for OKC with the push of a button - and #2 you really don't get that this absolutely decimates a teams future and STILL does not make them a championship level squad.

Championship level teams do need to play defense. You realize this, right? Nash, Kaman and Lee are all horrible defenders.... again, you realize this, right?

This is why even if 'Melo goes to NY before the season begins, they will still fall short of being a contender.

There's a reason why 'Melo/Nash/Kaman/Lee/Nowitzki (insert # 1 option offensive power who doesn't play D here) never make it to the finals, and it's because they (and their teams) are almost always sub-par defensively.

How far the Thunder go this year will be dependent on the health of the Blazers/Rockets/Lakers (all obviously much tougher if their elite centers are healthy), and just how big of an impact Ibaka + Aldrich are ready to offer. It also depends if they decide to make a deadline trade for an impact big (which, you seem to not be getting is still a very real possibility and no doubt in the back of Presti's mind. This would not include an abhorrent defender like Lee or Kaman, tho').

My projection = top 4 seed and winning their first playoff series.
Beyond that, it's too soon to predict. I'll let you know more come the All Star break.

PS: I am SO glad you do not have Sam Presti's job, because I am having too much fun watching this organization build and develop so brilliantly.

Championship level teams do need more than one all-star caliber player. You realize that right? The Thunder only have one great player right now. You realize that right? :rolleyes:

Kaman and Lee have had no postseason success but we both know they aren't #1/#2 options. Their supporting casts are just as indicative of their team results. Let's look at your other examples:

Melo - Lost in WCF at the age of 24
Nash - 3 trips to the WCF
Dirk - Lost in the Finals (there goes your theory of #1's with little defense never make the finals), in a series he could have easily won.

These are your models of failure? Just so you know, Magic Johnson wasn't exactly All-Defensive 1st Team either.

Anyway, I'm done responding in this thread because you've become so dense and rude that you'd rather harp on the same points and make accusations at me rather than have a real discussion.

SupeUnagi
08-17-2010, 11:23 AM
Are you talking about Durant? He was one of the most efficient scorers in NBA history last season. Only 4 other players have ever put up 30ppg with >.600ts%

And his defense went from sub-par to nearing elite in a matter of one year. Very solid rebounder, as well. I'm lost.

no.

BULLSFAN0810
08-17-2010, 12:29 PM
Durant is a beast...Dirk-like size , WITH T-MAC HANDLES.....YOU CANT GUARD HIM...UNDER 6'8 HE SHOOTS OVER YOU....OVER 6'9 HE DRIVES PAST YOU...GO FIGURE THAT OUT AND STOP IT.....

Sandman
08-17-2010, 12:42 PM
Durant is a beast...Dirk-like size , WITH T-MAC HANDLES.....YOU CANT GUARD HIM...UNDER 6'8 HE SHOOTS OVER YOU....OVER 6'9 HE DRIVES PAST YOU...GO FIGURE THAT OUT AND STOP IT.....

lol i love this guy's posts

he starts out all calm, and then he gets all worked up excited and goes to all caps and types in spurts

scutch11
08-17-2010, 01:14 PM
this team is gonna be so good defensively this year, that i honestly wouldnt be shocked if they beat the lakers if westbrook and green take a big step up this year. it all depends on them.

and id be SHOCKED if they didnt lead the league in blocks this year by a wide margin

Avenged
08-17-2010, 01:20 PM
this team is gonna be so good defensively this year, that i honestly wouldnt be shocked if they beat the lakers if westbrook and green take a big step up this year. it all depends on them.

and id be SHOCKED if they didnt lead the league in blocks this year by a wide margin

:pity:

I've been defending the Thunder in this thread throughout but I'm not going to push it either.

If Westbrook does take a leap this up-coming-season (which he should), the Thunder will no doubt get better. Their defense should definitely improve a bit more and Ibaka should continue to develop his defense.

But even with all of that, they have no scorers in the post, meanwhile the Lakers have 2 (Bynum & Gasol) and you can count Odom, although he's more of a facilitator than anything.

The Lakers have added Blake who's a much better upgrade than Farmar offensively and defensively and Matt Barnes who could guard him if needed. Kobe did a fair job on him as well in the playoffs.

I mean, the Thunder have the potential, but it'll be really tough to beat an experience powerhouse who have only added more talent to their squad.

ChiSox219
08-17-2010, 01:53 PM
Championship level teams do need more than one all-star caliber player. You realize that right? The Thunder only have one great player right now. You realize that right? :rolleyes:

Kaman and Lee have had no postseason success but we both know they aren't #1/#2 options. Their supporting casts are just as indicative of their team results. Let's look at your other examples:

Melo - Lost in WCF at the age of 24
Nash - 3 trips to the WCF
Dirk - Lost in the Finals (there goes your theory of #1's with little defense never make the finals), in a series he could have easily won.

These are your models of failure? Just so you know, Magic Johnson wasn't exactly All-Defensive 1st Team either.

Anyway, I'm done responding in this thread because you've become so dense and rude that you'd rather harp on the same points and make accusations at me rather than have a real discussion.

You point out Dirk Nowitzki and I think that example shows why your ideas are not optimal. The Mavericks for years now have traded young talent for (usually) veterans they considered upgrades. Devin Harris for Jason Kidd sounds pretty similar to Westbrook for Nash, if you ask me.



You call tredigs dense when he knows what he is talking about and you don't. :pity:


I think you also jumped on the Blazers for not trading any of their young talent and now that talent has lost its value. Do you know the T'Wolves offered the #4 overall pick for Batum?

Do you know the Blazers are title contenders if they maintain an average level of health?




You've been learning how to build a team from too many bad Knicks GMs.

Baller1
08-17-2010, 02:05 PM
:pity:

I've been defending the Thunder in this thread throughout but I'm not going to push it either.

If Westbrook does take a leap this up-coming-season (which he should), the Thunder will no doubt get better. Their defense should definitely improve a bit more and Ibaka should continue to develop his defense.

But even with all of that, they have no scorers in the post, meanwhile the Lakers have 2 (Bynum & Gasol) and you can count Odom, although he's more of a facilitator than anything.

The Lakers have added Blake who's a much better upgrade than Farmar offensively and defensively and Matt Barnes who could guard him if needed. Kobe did a fair job on him as well in the playoffs.

I mean, the Thunder have the potential, but it'll be really tough to beat an experience powerhouse who have only added more talent to their squad.

If the Lakers didn't add Blake and Barnes, then I'd say we had an extremely strong chance of dethroning the Lakers.

But, I think people are undervaluing those pickups too much.

tredigs
08-17-2010, 02:47 PM
Edit: I don't know what the **** I was saying. I was wasted.
haha I read it last night, and just started cracking up. NOT A CLUE what you were saying - though I did get the message that you were wasted; It was less discernible than Crooner text.




You point out Dirk Nowitzki and I think that example shows why your ideas are not optimal. The Mavericks for years now have traded young talent for (usually) veterans they considered upgrades. Devin Harris for Jason Kidd sounds pretty similar to Westbrook for Nash, if you ask me.



You call tredigs dense when he knows what he is talking about and you don't. :pity:


I think you also jumped on the Blazers for not trading any of their young talent and now that talent has lost its value. Do you know the T'Wolves offered the #4 overall pick for Batum?

Do you know the Blazers are title contenders if they maintain an average level of health?




You've been learning how to build a team from too many bad Knicks GMs.

The defense rests.


As for the Thunder beating the Lakers (or a healthy Blazers team), they have a chance. I think their year of development (this being the key piece) + Aldrich and Cook/Peterson makes them the much more improved team going into 2010/11 out of the two. Blake and Barnes were definitely solid pickups for them, though. And they are clearly still the favorites.

Baller1
08-17-2010, 02:49 PM
haha I read it last night, and just started cracking up. NOT A CLUE what you were saying - though I did get the message that you were wasted; It was less discernible than Crooner text.





The defense rests.


As for the Thunder beating the Lakers (or a healthy Blazers team), they have a chance. I think their year of development (this being the key piece) + Aldrich and Cook/Peterson makes them the much more improved team going into 2010/11 out of the two. Blake and Barnes were definitely solid pickups for them, though. And they are clearly still the favorites.

:laugh2:

Yeah, that was ****ing embarrasing. I don't even know what the **** I was trying to say.

magichatnumber9
08-17-2010, 03:06 PM
this thread is a fail.

levignjw
08-17-2010, 03:10 PM
Durant deserves all the attention he gets. He is one of the few players in sports today that actually seems to care more about winning than the number of zeros on his paycheck.

ChiSox219
08-17-2010, 03:13 PM
1. The Dallas situation and the Thunder situation are totally different so your analogy there is terrible. The 2005/2006 Heat are a better comparison and we know how that worked out.

2. If you think the Blazers are a title contender then you don't follow the NBA as closely as you pretend.

3. Nice little baiting at the end. lol Just pathetic.

...

lakerfan3118
08-17-2010, 05:20 PM
You point out Dirk Nowitzki and I think that example shows why your ideas are not optimal. The Mavericks for years now have traded young talent for (usually) veterans they considered upgrades. Devin Harris for Jason Kidd sounds pretty similar to Westbrook for Nash, if you ask me.

Hook, line, and sinker.

da wood
08-17-2010, 07:38 PM
actually if the numbers were to match i would trade green for kaman because its about size and with green at the 4 they are small but you put ibaka at the 4 and pull in a 7'1 kaman and you are now one of the biggest teams in the league. however i cant ride with ya on the lee and nash thing. sorry that shi wont work right there.