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JordansBulls
08-12-2010, 08:33 AM
Remove Every Team's 2nd Best Player, Who would be the Top 5 Teams?


Edit: Post #38 if you want to see how the Rosters would look http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14544628&postcount=38

DWills
08-12-2010, 08:37 AM
top 5 would still be the same, wtf kinda thread is this?

alencp3
08-12-2010, 08:39 AM
Celtics,Heat,Magic would be the best
Lakers a lottery team i guess

JDMVP
08-12-2010, 08:48 AM
Celtics,Heat,Magic would be the best
Lakers a lottery team i guess

Lakers lottery team and Orlando would be still be one of the best????:facepalm:

MiamiWadeCounty
08-12-2010, 08:50 AM
i guess if you took away the knicks second best player theyd be the same right?

S-Dot
08-12-2010, 08:54 AM
This is tough
1. Dallas
2. Miami (I'm assuming they move Dwyane Wade)
3. Lakers
4. Celts
5. Orlando

OA SLAY
08-12-2010, 08:55 AM
Don't no but the bulls would sure suck without Rose

runforrestrunx9
08-12-2010, 08:57 AM
Don't no but the bulls would sure suck without Rose

hes not ur best player?

MiamiWadeCounty
08-12-2010, 09:00 AM
rose>>>boozer

SouljahPhil...
08-12-2010, 09:10 AM
Celtics,Heat,Magic would be the best
Lakers a lottery team i guess

OMG? are you ******** or what? Lottery? hahaha...

Magic still one the best? whahaha...

HeatBBall
08-12-2010, 09:16 AM
What if we were to remove every teams 2nd 5th and 12th best player, everyones 2nd assistant coach and the uncle of 1st wives cousin on medical staff?

Then each team would just be left with the towel boy's cousin.

BOSTON617
08-12-2010, 09:17 AM
lol the celtics players are all the same
1. rondo/pierce
2. kg/allen

who would we get rid of pierce?

Minimal
08-12-2010, 09:20 AM
1. Celtics
2. Miami
3. Orlando
4. Dallas
5. Portland
6. Lakers
7. Denver
8. San Antonio
9. Atlanta
10. Bulls

Cap'nCrunch40
08-12-2010, 09:23 AM
Lakers. Dallas. Celtics. are my top 3, bulls and heat are probably 4th and 5th but im not sure

td0tsfinest
08-12-2010, 09:26 AM
I'm surprised a lot of people aren't saying Miami. Lebron led a bunch of misfits guys to league titles for consecutive years. If it was just him and Bosh, I think they would seriously kick some ***.

OA SLAY
08-12-2010, 09:32 AM
I'm surprised a lot of people aren't saying Miami. Lebron led a bunch of misfits guys to league titles for consecutive years. If it was just him and Bosh, I think they would seriously kick some ***.

When he said "best" I think he ment someone who will not buckle under pressure and just pack up and leave.

ManRam
08-12-2010, 09:49 AM
LOL at whoever said the Lakers would be a lottery team. They wouldn't be title contenders without Pau, but they wouldn't be a lottery team.

The Heat would still be amazing without Wade. That cast would still be better than anything he had in Cleveland. The Magic would still be very good without whoever their second best player is (Lewis, Nelson or Carter...). Dallas would still have a ton of talent.

Teams like Utah (Jefferson), Denver (Chaunc), Atlanta (Smith) etc. would fall off the most.

1. Miami
2. Orlando
3. Boston (Rondo is their best player IMO, so no KG or Pierce)
4. Dallas
5. Lakers
6. Portland

If Bynum went down for LA again, they'd plummet.

Hellcrooner
08-12-2010, 10:01 AM
LOL at whoever said the Lakers would be a lottery team. They wouldn't be title contenders without Pau, but they wouldn't be a lottery team.

The Heat would still be amazing without Wade. That cast would still be better than anything he had in Cleveland. The Magic would still be very good without whoever their second best player is (Lewis, Nelson or Carter...). Dallas would still have a ton of talent.

Teams like Utah (Jefferson), Denver (Chaunc), Atlanta (Smith) etc. would fall off the most.

1. Miami
2. Orlando
3. Boston (Rondo is their best player IMO, so no KG or Pierce)
4. Dallas
5. Lakers
6. Portland

If Bynum went down for LA again, they'd plummet.

If EVERY team loses their second man lakers are still contenders.

Btw Heat would be DEEPLY hurt by losing Le-Robin

xbrackattackx
08-12-2010, 10:03 AM
Celtics,Miami,LA,OKC and Portland

JordansBulls
08-12-2010, 10:19 AM
LOL at whoever said the Lakers would be a lottery team. They wouldn't be title contenders without Pau, but they wouldn't be a lottery team.

The Heat would still be amazing without Wade. That cast would still be better than anything he had in Cleveland. The Magic would still be very good without whoever their second best player is (Lewis, Nelson or Carter...). Dallas would still have a ton of talent.

Teams like Utah (Jefferson), Denver (Chaunc), Atlanta (Smith) etc. would fall off the most.

1. Miami
2. Orlando
3. Boston (Rondo is their best player IMO, so no KG or Pierce)
4. Dallas
5. Lakers
6. Portland

If Bynum went down for LA again, they'd plummet.

Agree with this.

Minimal
08-12-2010, 10:29 AM
LOL at whoever said the Lakers would be a lottery team. They wouldn't be title contenders without Pau, but they wouldn't be a lottery team.

The Heat would still be amazing without Wade. That cast would still be better than anything he had in Cleveland. The Magic would still be very good without whoever their second best player is (Lewis, Nelson or Carter...). Dallas would still have a ton of talent.

Teams like Utah (Jefferson), Denver (Chaunc), Atlanta (Smith) etc. would fall off the most.

1. Miami
2. Orlando
3. Boston (Rondo is their best player IMO, so no KG or Pierce)
4. Dallas
5. Lakers
6. Portland

If Bynum went down for LA again, they'd plummet.

This. Only I would put Celtics 1st and Miami 2nd. Lakers without Pau Gasol are no title contenders.

clehmun
08-12-2010, 10:44 AM
i'm just typing this so i can see it on "paper".

Fisher/Blake
Kobe
Artest
Odom
Bynum

Chalmers
M Miller
Lebron
Bosh
J Anthony

Rondo
R Allen
T Allen
Garnett
J O'Neal

Nelson
Reddick
Pietrus
Lewis
Howard

Barea/Beaubois or Terry
Butler
Marion
Dirk
Haywood/Chandler

A Miller
Roy
Batum
Camby
Oden

Giannis94
08-12-2010, 10:47 AM
this is a pointless thread

Minimal
08-12-2010, 11:06 AM
i'm just typing this so i can see it on "paper".

Fisher/Blake
Kobe
Artest
Odom
Bynum

Chalmers
M Miller
Lebron
Bosh
J Anthony

Rondo
R Allen
T Allen
Garnett
J O'Neal

Nelson
Reddick
Pietrus
Lewis
Howard

Barea/Beaubois or Terry
Butler
Marion
Dirk
Haywood/Chandler

A Miller
Roy
Batum
Camby
Oden
Tony Allen was traded, but good list.

RaiderLakersA's
08-12-2010, 11:35 AM
BEFORE the Lakers acquired Pau Gasol that year via trade...didn't they have the best record in the West at that time? I seem to recall they were in first place in the Conference standings even before Pau arrived. Granted that was with Ariza and not Artest, and my memory may be a little fuzzy, but I think that even without Pau, the Lakers with a healthy Bynum are anything but a lottery team.

And I agree that on paper Miami should get more credit, whether you're considering Wade as the #2 or LeBron.

SouthSideRookie
08-12-2010, 11:45 AM
I think the Rockets have proven they can hold their own without their best player(s).

mikantsass
08-12-2010, 11:46 AM
I dont think anything would change... The Lakers might slip a couple spots, but still def top 5

lakers4sho
08-12-2010, 11:47 AM
BEFORE the Lakers acquired Pau Gasol that year via trade...didn't they have the best record in the West at that time? I seem to recall they were in first place in the Conference standings even before Pau arrived. Granted that was with Ariza and not Artest, and my memory may be a little fuzzy, but I think that even without Pau, the Lakers with a healthy Bynum are anything but a lottery team.

They were #1 for only about a couple weeks. They were floating around 4-6 for most of the time. And that was with a productive Vujacic and Farmar.

BrotherRedz
08-12-2010, 11:51 AM
I will not be surprised if Bucks can make upsets, if you take every teams 2nd best player

Still: #1 Heat (Wade), #2 Mavs (?Butler?), #3 Boston (?Paul Pierce?) #4 Spurs (Ginobili), #5 Orlando (?Carter?)

Somewhere in the 8-10 Lakers

RaiderLakersA's
08-12-2010, 11:58 AM
They were #1 for only about a couple weeks. They were floating around 4-6 for most of the time. And that was with a productive Vujacic and Farmar.

Cool, thanks for the refresher.

So the Lakers lose Farmar, but add Blake, have Artest who is not only a key defender, but who is turning into Johnny On The Spot for the Lakers, able to fill in remarkably well as a scorer when Kobe is having an off night...and our bench now is better than it's ever been in the post Shaq era. Yep, definitely much better than a lottery team.

Have we given enough props to how well Portland makes out in this scenario? If they lose their second, but keep everyone else healthy, I think they're right there.

ManRam
08-12-2010, 12:10 PM
I think the Rockets have proven they can hold their own without their best player(s).

At times, yes. Not last year.

I think there only a few teams in the league that could sustain a significant injury. The Rockets have proven to be on of those teams in the past, even without really any significant talent (09 vs. the Lakers in the playoffs was great). It's weird how some teams rally like that, and other don't. I really think the only teams that could sustain a major injury are Orlando (as long as it's not Dwight), Boston (because they have a big 4 and a great bench), Miami (obviously), LA (perhaps) and Dallas (as long as it's not Dirk).

I wonder if other teams could pull off an 09 Rockets effort...where they really lacked an all-star. I don't see a team like that. Utah would be toast without Jefferson or Deron. Same with Denver. Portland maybe; they're always extremely scrappy.

Denver-boy
08-12-2010, 12:12 PM
idk Celtics suck, Ray allen and Pierce Vs Lebron and Bosh, ill take Heat anyday.

Carey
08-12-2010, 12:30 PM
I'm surprised a lot of people aren't saying Miami. Lebron led a bunch of misfits guys to league titles for consecutive years. If it was just him and Bosh, I think they would seriously kick some ***.

D Wade is the best basketball player on the Miami Heat.

BrotherRedz
08-12-2010, 12:34 PM
idk Celtics suck, Ray allen and Pierce Vs Lebron and Bosh, ill take Heat anyday.


LOL KG? 2nd Best?

Isnt Pierce the 2nd Best?

Pierce is just the franchise player of Boston same with Wade situation anyway :|

SouthSideRookie
08-12-2010, 12:37 PM
At times, yes. Not last year.

I think there only a few teams in the league that could sustain a significant injury. The Rockets have proven to be on of those teams in the past, even without really any significant talent (09 vs. the Lakers in the playoffs was great). It's weird how some teams rally like that, and other don't. I really think the only teams that could sustain a major injury are Orlando (as long as it's not Dwight), Boston (because they have a big 4 and a great bench), Miami (obviously), LA (perhaps) and Dallas (as long as it's not Dirk).

I wonder if other teams could pull off an 09 Rockets effort...where they really lacked an all-star. I don't see a team like that. Utah would be toast without Jefferson or Deron. Same with Denver. Portland maybe; they're always extremely scrappy.

I think last year also, I mean to finish with a .500 record(42-40) in the West when many experts predicted they would be the worst team in the league, they did this without Yao, Ariza had to play a prominent role for the Rockets on offense because of injuries, that itself says alot. Anyways thats just my opinion.

Da Knicks
08-12-2010, 01:12 PM
1.The Lakers without Kobe would still be a playoff team and make a push in the finals even without the second best player.

2. The Heat would still be good without Wade since Lebron and Bosh would still be really hard to contain.

3. Celtics without Pierce would still be good also.

LTS
08-12-2010, 01:43 PM
Lakers lottery team and Orlando would be still be one of the best????:facepalm:

Well Orlando 2nd best player isnt as good as LA's 2nd best player so that makes some since


but for the most part theyy would stay the same a gasol-less lakers would have the biggest fall

RocketPower2010
08-12-2010, 03:30 PM
This is actually pretty fun, so let's take it up. I'm going to list the teams, the player they lose, and their remaining 5 top players (usually the starting 5 but not necessarily. You be the judge. (this is still opinionated so please don't flame but feel free to contribute).

Atlanta (without Smith) - Horford, Williams, Johnson, Crawford, Bibby
Celtics (without Garnett) - Perkins, Pierce, Allen, Rondo, Davis
Bobcats (without Jackson) - Dampier, Diaw, Thomas, Wallace, Livingston
Bulls (without Boozer) - Noah, Gibson, Deng, Brewer, Rose
Cavaliers (without Williams) - Varejao, Jamison, Moon, Parker, Gibson
Mavericks (without Kidd) - Haywood, Nowitzki, Butler, Marion, Chandler
Nuggets (without Billups) - Nene, Martin, Anthony, Smith, Afflalo
Pistons (without Prince) - Wilcox, Villanueva, Hamilton, Gordon, Stuckey
Warriors (without Curry) - Biedrins, Lee, Williams, Ellis, Wright
Rockets (without Martin) - Yao, Scola, Battier, Lee, Brooks
Pacers (without Collison) - Hibbert, Hansbrough, Granger, Rush, Dunleavy
Clippers (without Gordon) - Kaman, Griffin, Jordan, Foye, Davis
Lakers (without Gasol) - Bynum, Odom, Artest, Bryant, Fisher
Grizzlies (without Mayo) - Gasol, Randolph, Gay, Conley, Law
Heat (without Wade) - Ilugauskas, Bosh, James, Miller, Haslem
Bucks (without Jennings) - Bogut, Gooden, Maggette, Salmons, Redd
Wolves (without Beasley) - Milicic, Love, Brewer, Johnson, Flynn
Nets (without Lopez) - Favors, Murphy, Outlaw, Morrow, Harris
Hornets (without West) - Okafor, Ariza, Stojakovic, Diogu, Paul
Knicks (without Gallinari) - Stoudemire, Randolph, Chandler, McGrady, Douglas
Thunder (without Westbrook) - Kristic, Green, Durant, Harden, Sefolosha
Magic (without Carter) - Howard, Gortat, Lewis, Pietrus, Nelson
Sixers (without Iguodala) - Hawes, Speights, Young, Turner, Holiday
Suns (wihtout Richardson) - Lopez, Warrick, Turkoglu, Hill, Nash
Blazers (without Aldridge) - Oden, Camby, Roy, Matthews, Miller
Kings (without Dalembert) - Cousins, Thompson, Landry, Evans, Udrih
Spurs (without Parker) - Duncan, McDyess, Richardson, Ginobili, Hill
Raptors (without Calderon) - Bargnani, Evans, DeRozan, Barbosa, Jack
Jazz (without Jefferson) - Okur, Millsap, Kirilenko, Bell, Williams
Wizards (without Wall) - Blatche, McGee, Howard, Young, Arenas

God I have too much free time...anyway looking at the list I don't see some teams that will immediately fall out of contention. I guess that is good team management to combat injuries. Some teams (Rockets, Magic, Jazz) I actually like it without the 2nd best player. The bad teams...will be bad no matter what. Lakers will be a playoff team, but not championship team. Same for the Heat...Bosh won't put LeBron over the edge by himself.

IversonIsKrazy
08-12-2010, 03:55 PM
This thread is very odd lol. But I'll answer it anyways... now with the Heat, it would be D-wade & Bosh, LeBron would be gone.

1) Celtics (Rondo would be gone - Pierce is still their main man)
2) LA (Kobe & Bynum still REAL good. With all the surrounding talent, i.e, Odom, Artest, Fisher)
3) Orlando (I'm guessing there 2nd best player would be Lewis?)
4) Miami (Dwade Bosh, with their crap surrounding talent.)
5) Dallas

IversonIsKrazy
08-12-2010, 03:58 PM
And to remind everyone: Miami Heat is Wade's team

"Miami is MY house, I just finally have some roommates" - Dwade

beasted86
08-12-2010, 04:04 PM
top 5 would still be the same, wtf kinda thread is this?
This.

MacFitz92
08-12-2010, 04:05 PM
Boston and Dallas.

juggla53
08-12-2010, 04:18 PM
I will not be surprised if Bucks can make upsets, if you take every teams 2nd best player

Still: #1 Heat (Wade), #2 Mavs (?Butler?), #3 Boston (?Paul Pierce?) #4 Spurs (Ginobili), #5 Orlando (?Carter?)

Somewhere in the 8-10 Lakers

SA over LA without ginobli???? HAHAHAHA that might be the funniest thing ive ever seen on here so your telling me a team of an aging tim duncan, parker, hill, jefferson and blair is better then kobe, bynum, odom, artest, blake and barnes? ok you just keep thinking that. Also the celtics would be in a world of trouble without paul peirce.

Minimal
08-12-2010, 04:23 PM
1. Orlando Magic - Rashard Lewis
Jameer Nelson - Vince Carter - Michael Pietrus - Dwight Howard - Marcin Gortat

2. Miami Heat - Dwyane Wade
Mario Chalmers - LeBron James - Mike Miller - Chris Bosh - Joel Anthony

3. Dallas Mavericks - Jason Kidd
Jose Juan Barea - Caron Butler - Shawn Marion - Dirk Nowitzki - Brendan Haywood

4. Boston Celtics - Paul Pierce
Rajon Rondo - Ray Allen - Marquis Daniels - Kevin Garnett - Jermaine O'Neal

5. Portland Trail Blazers - Lamarcus Aldridge
Andre Miller - Brandon Roy - Nicolas Batum - Marcus Camby - Greg Oden

6. Los Angeles Lakers - Pau Gasol
Derek Fisher - Kobe Bryant - Ron Artest - Lamar Odom - Andrew Bynum

7. Denver Nuggets - Chauncey Billups
Ty Lawson - J.R. Smith - Carmelo Anthony - Kenyon Martin - Nene Hilario

8. San Antonio Spurs - Manu Ginobili
Tony Parker - George Hill - Richard Jefferson - Tim Duncan - DeJuan Blair

9. Atlanta Hawks - Josh Smith
Mike Bibby - Joe Johnson - Marvin Williams - Al Horford - Zaza Pachulia

10. Chicago Bulls - Carlos Boozer
Derrick Rose - Ronnie Brewer - Luol Deng - Taj Gibson - Joakim Noah

Shammyguy3
08-12-2010, 04:33 PM
Boston Celtics---lose Rondo

Dallas Mavericks---lose ?

New Jersey Nets---lose Harris

Houston Rockets---lose Martin

New York Knicks---lose Chandler

Memphis Grizzlies---lose Gasol

Philadelphia 76ers---lose ?

New Orleans Hornets---lose ?

Toronto Raptors---lose ?

San Antonio Spurs---lose Ginobli

Chicago Bulls---lose Boozer

Denver Nuggets---lose Billups

Cleveland Cavaliers---lose Williams

Minnesota Timberwolves---lose ?

Detroit Pistons---lose ?

Portland Trail Blazers---lose Oden

Indiana Pacers---lose ?

Oklahoma City Thunder---lose Westbrook

Milwaukee Bucks---lose ?

Utah Jazz---lose Jefferson

Atlanta Hawks---lose ?

Golden State Warriors---lose Lee

Charlotte Bobcats---lose ?

Los Angeles Clippers---lose ?

Miami Heat---lose Wade

Los Angeles Lakers---lose Gasol

Orlando Magic---lose Nelson

Phoenix Suns---lose ?

Washington Wizards---lose ?

Sacramento Kings---lose ?


i'm assuming every person is completely healthy...
i couldn't decide who the 2nd best players are on the "?" teams

JordansBulls
08-12-2010, 05:35 PM
This is actually pretty fun, so let's take it up. I'm going to list the teams, the player they lose, and their remaining 5 top players (usually the starting 5 but not necessarily. You be the judge. (this is still opinionated so please don't flame but feel free to contribute).

Atlanta (without Smith) - Horford, Williams, Johnson, Crawford, Bibby
Celtics (without Garnett) - Perkins, Pierce, Allen, Rondo, Davis
Bobcats (without Jackson) - Dampier, Diaw, Thomas, Wallace, Livingston
Bulls (without Boozer) - Noah, Gibson, Deng, Brewer, Rose
Cavaliers (without Williams) - Varejao, Jamison, Moon, Parker, Gibson
Mavericks (without Kidd) - Haywood, Nowitzki, Butler, Marion, Chandler
Nuggets (without Billups) - Nene, Martin, Anthony, Smith, Afflalo
Pistons (without Prince) - Wilcox, Villanueva, Hamilton, Gordon, Stuckey
Warriors (without Curry) - Biedrins, Lee, Williams, Ellis, Wright
Rockets (without Martin) - Yao, Scola, Battier, Lee, Brooks
Pacers (without Collison) - Hibbert, Hansbrough, Granger, Rush, Dunleavy
Clippers (without Gordon) - Kaman, Griffin, Jordan, Foye, Davis
Lakers (without Gasol) - Bynum, Odom, Artest, Bryant, Fisher
Grizzlies (without Mayo) - Gasol, Randolph, Gay, Conley, Law
Heat (without Wade) - Ilugauskas, Bosh, James, Miller, Haslem
Bucks (without Jennings) - Bogut, Gooden, Maggette, Salmons, Redd
Wolves (without Beasley) - Milicic, Love, Brewer, Johnson, Flynn
Nets (without Lopez) - Favors, Murphy, Outlaw, Morrow, Harris
Hornets (without West) - Okafor, Ariza, Stojakovic, Diogu, Paul
Knicks (without Gallinari) - Stoudemire, Randolph, Chandler, McGrady, Douglas
Thunder (without Westbrook) - Kristic, Green, Durant, Harden, Sefolosha
Magic (without Carter) - Howard, Gortat, Lewis, Pietrus, Nelson
Sixers (without Iguodala) - Hawes, Speights, Young, Turner, Holiday
Suns (wihtout Richardson) - Lopez, Warrick, Turkoglu, Hill, Nash
Blazers (without Aldridge) - Oden, Camby, Roy, Matthews, Miller
Kings (without Dalembert) - Cousins, Thompson, Landry, Evans, Udrih
Spurs (without Parker) - Duncan, McDyess, Richardson, Ginobili, Hill
Raptors (without Calderon) - Bargnani, Evans, DeRozan, Barbosa, Jack
Jazz (without Jefferson) - Okur, Millsap, Kirilenko, Bell, Williams
Wizards (without Wall) - Blatche, McGee, Howard, Young, Arenas

God I have too much free time...anyway looking at the list I don't see some teams that will immediately fall out of contention. I guess that is good team management to combat injuries. Some teams (Rockets, Magic, Jazz) I actually like it without the 2nd best player. The bad teams...will be bad no matter what. Lakers will be a playoff team, but not championship team. Same for the Heat...Bosh won't put LeBron over the edge by himself.


Thanks for doing all the leg work.
:clap:

_KB24_
08-12-2010, 05:39 PM
1. Lakers- Fish, Kobe, Artest, Odom, Bynum
2. Boston-Nate, Allen, Pierce, Garnett, Shaq
3. Miami- Chalmers, Wade, Miller, Bosh, Anthony

The same 3 even WHEN they have everybody.

Htownballa1622
08-12-2010, 06:13 PM
1. Lakers- Fish, Kobe, Artest, Odom, Bynum
2. Boston-Nate, Allen, Pierce, Garnett, Shaq
3. Miami- Chalmers, Wade, Miller, Bosh, Anthony

The same 3 even WHEN they have everybody.

I'm sorry but for the lakers its not the same.kobe is the best for them but w/o pau I don't see that team ahead of others.pau is THAT important.

heattiltheend94
08-12-2010, 06:30 PM
Lakers were first round exits before Gasol. I say they would take big plummet, and I would say probably Celtics (great bench and very great overall), or Dallas (again very well rounded)

YoungOne
08-12-2010, 06:33 PM
the list is not really up to date and pretty debatable so this thread is even more senseless

iguodala on the sixers?
dalembert on the kings?

and so on.. i would change or just debate 10 on this list

_KB24_
08-12-2010, 06:35 PM
I'm sorry but for the lakers its not the same.kobe is the best for them but w/o pau I don't see that team ahead of others.pau is THAT important.

Read the thread, missy.

YoungOne
08-12-2010, 06:35 PM
1. Lakers- Fish, Kobe, Artest, Odom, Bynum
2. Boston-Nate, Allen, Pierce, Garnett, Shaq
3. Miami- Chalmers, Wade, Miller, Bosh, Anthony

The same 3 even WHEN they have everybody.

Rondo is bostons best player...

The Raven
08-12-2010, 06:51 PM
Lakers would still be in contention

Highlight
08-12-2010, 07:03 PM
1. Orlando Magic - Rashard Lewis
Jameer Nelson - Vince Carter - Michael Pietrus - Dwight Howard - Marcin Gortat

2. Miami Heat - Dwyane Wade
Mario Chalmers - LeBron James - Mike Miller - Chris Bosh - Joel Anthony

3. Dallas Mavericks - Jason Kidd
Jose Juan Barea - Caron Butler - Shawn Marion - Dirk Nowitzki - Brendan Haywood

4. Boston Celtics - Paul Pierce
Rajon Rondo - Ray Allen - Marquis Daniels - Kevin Garnett - Jermaine O'Neal

5. Portland Trail Blazers - Lamarcus Aldridge
Andre Miller - Brandon Roy - Nicolas Batum - Marcus Camby - Greg Oden

6. Los Angeles Lakers - Pau Gasol
Derek Fisher - Kobe Bryant - Ron Artest - Lamar Odom - Andrew Bynum

7. Denver Nuggets - Chauncey Billups
Ty Lawson - J.R. Smith - Carmelo Anthony - Kenyon Martin - Nene Hilario

8. San Antonio Spurs - Manu Ginobili
Tony Parker - George Hill - Richard Jefferson - Tim Duncan - DeJuan Blair

9. Atlanta Hawks - Josh Smith
Mike Bibby - Joe Johnson - Marvin Williams - Al Horford - Zaza Pachulia

10. Chicago Bulls - Carlos Boozer
Derrick Rose - Ronnie Brewer - Luol Deng - Taj Gibson - Joakim Noah

The Lakers were #1 out west in 2008 before they acquired Gasol. I don't know why you would have Portland or even Dallas above them. Even with the roster changes neither of those teams were #1 out west.

Many people seem to forget how good the Lakers were right before they got Gasol and that was with Walton starting at that time. Ariza started starting later in the season because Walton asked to take a back seat.

Add Artest, Barnes, Blake, with a better Bynum and you have to have LA in the top 3 (#1 out west should be a given).

kArSoN RyDaH
08-12-2010, 07:09 PM
take away gasol and lamar odom easily steps in and fills that void. not as efficient as gasol but definately still keeps the lakers #1 in the nba. along with bynum artest and everyone else we have its still 3peat.

Htownballa1622
08-12-2010, 07:09 PM
Read the thread, missy.

Missy?wth?:facepalm: anyways.i was simply stating the lakers wouldn't be as well off as others because they need pau.read what I wrote,u lame.

Highlight
08-12-2010, 07:21 PM
Missy?wth?:facepalm: anyways.i was simply stating the lakers wouldn't be as well off as others because they need pau.read what I wrote,u lame.

Read my post. The Lakers have proven how good they can be without Pau. In the 2008 season they were #1 out West before Bynum went down and the Lakers acquired Pau. That was before Artest, Barnes, Blake and all the other changes.

PHX2daDEATH
08-12-2010, 07:26 PM
BEFORE the Lakers acquired Pau Gasol that year via trade...didn't they have the best record in the West at that time? I seem to recall they were in first place in the Conference standings even before Pau arrived. Granted that was with Ariza and not Artest, and my memory may be a little fuzzy, but I think that even without Pau, the Lakers with a healthy Bynum are anything but a lottery team.

And I agree that on paper Miami should get more credit, whether you're considering Wade as the #2 or LeBron.

The lakers and Suns were neck and neck that year leading up to the trades of Gasol and Shaq. Lakers got Gasol first and were something like 28-16, i think. the Suns had the best record in the west when they hit the panic button because of the Gasol deal and went and aquired Shaq..the rest is history

John Walls Era
08-12-2010, 07:28 PM
It wouldn't change the Rankings too much.

alencp3
08-12-2010, 08:01 PM
Oh im sorry about my post that made a lot of curse and LOLing at me but I tought Kobe is the 2nd best player on Lakers so they would lose a lot. Oh my bad i forgot they are better without him.

Phenomenonsense
08-12-2010, 08:12 PM
I'm guessing that Orlando would still be the same team they were in last year's playoffs, assuming Carter is their second best player.

Htownballa1622
08-12-2010, 11:08 PM
Read my post. The Lakers have proven how good they can be without Pau. In the 2008 season they were #1 out West before Bynum went down and the Lakers acquired Pau. That was before Artest, Barnes, Blake and all the other changes.

Ok they were in first after x amount of games.what I'm saying is if you take pau out it would affect the lakers more than other teams like orlando boston dallas.teams like that.just because pau is that good for l.a.

Sandman
08-12-2010, 11:10 PM
Magic made the finals with that team w/o Carter. The Heat are still solid too. I have to think, without looking, that atlanta and portland would have great teams too, because they're just good teams all around and not built in the 1-2-+ mold.

Sixerlover
08-12-2010, 11:14 PM
D Wade is the best basketball player on the Miami Heat.
False.


And to remind everyone: Miami Heat is Wade's team

"Miami is MY house, I just finally have some roommates" - Dwade

Wade's team maybe. LeBron the BEST PLAYER for sure

Miami would be the best with Boston #2. LeBron would still have a top 5 big man and a dead eye 3pt shooter. And Boston would still have A big 3, just dependent on who you take out (Rondo, Pierce or KG)

brodawgs
08-12-2010, 11:32 PM
Well the Bucks aren't a top 5 team, but they're the only team that you could remove their second best player, be unaffected by it, and still be a dangerous team in the playoffs.

Otherwise...

1. Celtics
2. Heat
3. Magic
4. Lakers
5. Mavericks

iggypop123
08-12-2010, 11:47 PM
This is actually pretty fun, so let's take it up. I'm going to list the teams, the player they lose, and their remaining 5 top players (usually the starting 5 but not necessarily. You be the judge. (this is still opinionated so please don't flame but feel free to contribute).

Atlanta (without Smith) - Horford, Williams, Johnson, Crawford, Bibby
Celtics (without Garnett) - Perkins, Pierce, Allen, Rondo, Davis
Bobcats (without Jackson) - Dampier, Diaw, Thomas, Wallace, Livingston
Bulls (without Boozer) - Noah, Gibson, Deng, Brewer, Rose
Cavaliers (without Williams) - Varejao, Jamison, Moon, Parker, Gibson
Mavericks (without Kidd) - Haywood, Nowitzki, Butler, Marion, Chandler
Nuggets (without Billups) - Nene, Martin, Anthony, Smith, Afflalo
Pistons (without Prince) - Wilcox, Villanueva, Hamilton, Gordon, Stuckey
Warriors (without Curry) - Biedrins, Lee, Williams, Ellis, Wright
Rockets (without Martin) - Yao, Scola, Battier, Lee, Brooks
Pacers (without Collison) - Hibbert, Hansbrough, Granger, Rush, Dunleavy
Clippers (without Gordon) - Kaman, Griffin, Jordan, Foye, Davis
Lakers (without Gasol) - Bynum, Odom, Artest, Bryant, Fisher
Grizzlies (without Mayo) - Gasol, Randolph, Gay, Conley, Law
Heat (without LEBRON) - Ilugauskas, Bosh, Wade, Miller, Haslem
Bucks (without Jennings) - Bogut, Gooden, Maggette, Salmons, Redd
Wolves (without Beasley) - Milicic, Love, Brewer, Johnson, Flynn
Nets (without Lopez) - Favors, Murphy, Outlaw, Morrow, Harris
Hornets (without West) - Okafor, Ariza, Stojakovic, Diogu, Paul
Knicks (without Gallinari) - Stoudemire, Randolph, Chandler, McGrady, Douglas
Thunder (without Westbrook) - Kristic, Green, Durant, Harden, Sefolosha
Magic (without Carter) - Howard, Gortat, Lewis, Pietrus, Nelson
Sixers (without Iguodala) - Hawes, Speights, Young, Turner, Holiday
Suns (wihtout Richardson) - Lopez, Warrick, Turkoglu, Hill, Nash
Blazers (without Aldridge) - Oden, Camby, Roy, Matthews, Miller
Kings (without Dalembert) - Cousins, Thompson, Landry, Evans, Udrih
Spurs (without Parker) - Duncan, McDyess, Richardson, Ginobili, Hill
Raptors (without Calderon) - Bargnani, Evans, DeRozan, Barbosa, Jack
Jazz (without Jefferson) - Okur, Millsap, Kirilenko, Bell, Williams
Wizards (without Wall) - Blatche, McGee, Howard, Young, Arenas

God I have too much free time...anyway looking at the list I don't see some teams that will immediately fall out of contention. I guess that is good team management to combat injuries. Some teams (Rockets, Magic, Jazz) I actually like it without the 2nd best player. The bad teams...will be bad no matter what. Lakers will be a playoff team, but not championship team. Same for the Heat...Bosh won't put LeBron over the edge by himself.

fixed

JordansBulls
08-12-2010, 11:49 PM
D Wade is the best basketball player on the Miami Heat.

I agree.

JabberJaw
08-12-2010, 11:57 PM
How anyone would say the Heat would be a top 5 without Wade is amazing. I know LBJ is great, but LBJ, Bosh, Miller (who is a decent) and a bunch of garbage would not compare to a Dallas, Celtics, Lakers, Bulls, Orlando, Denver, Portland, Atlanta...
Chalmers, Miller, LBJ, Bosh, Anthony<
Heat<Rondo, R. Allen, KG, Perkins, Big Baby + better bench
Heat<Lawson, J.R. Smith, Anthony, Martin, Nene + better bench
Heat<Rose, Brewer, Deng, Noah, Gibson + better bench
Heat<Fisher, Bryant, Artest, Odom, Bynum + better bench
Heat<Terry, Butler, Matrix, Nowitzki, Chandler + better bench
Heat<Bibby, Johnson, J. Smith, Williams, Pachulia + better bench
Heat<Nelson, Carter, Pietrus, Bass, Howard + better bench
Heat<Roy, Matthews, Batum, Camby, Oden + better bench

A few of these team take the lead when it comes to the bench, but most of these teams have clearly better starting lineups (- 2nd best player). Heat would be a middle of the pack team, tops, with a HORRIBLE bench.

Minimal
08-13-2010, 05:05 AM
How anyone would say the Heat would be a top 5 without Wade is amazing. I know LBJ is great, but LBJ, Bosh, Miller (who is a decent) and a bunch of garbage would not compare to a Dallas, Celtics, Lakers, Bulls, Orlando, Denver, Portland, Atlanta...
Chalmers, Miller, LBJ, Bosh, Anthony<
Heat<Rondo, R. Allen, KG, Perkins, Big Baby + better bench
Heat<Lawson, J.R. Smith, Anthony, Martin, Nene + better bench
Heat<Rose, Brewer, Deng, Noah, Gibson + better bench
Heat<Fisher, Bryant, Artest, Odom, Bynum + better bench
Heat<Terry, Butler, Matrix, Nowitzki, Chandler + better bench
Heat<Bibby, Johnson, J. Smith, Williams, Pachulia + better bench
Heat<Nelson, Carter, Pietrus, Bass, Howard + better bench
Heat<Roy, Matthews, Batum, Camby, Oden + better bench

A few of these team take the lead when it comes to the bench, but most of these teams have clearly better starting lineups (- 2nd best player). Heat would be a middle of the pack team, tops, with a HORRIBLE bench.
Didn't Cleveland with LeBron and bunch of scrubs was one of the best in the league, with best season record?
Horrible bench? Eddie House, Udonis Haslem, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Carlos Arroyo compare them to other team benches and then say they are horrible.

Iggz53
08-13-2010, 05:13 AM
Orlando
Boston
Miami
Lakers
Mavs

hyb152
08-13-2010, 05:36 AM
Well the lakers would suck since kobe cant do an ounce of crap without a big man (shaq, gasol)

icej
08-13-2010, 05:43 AM
I'm surprised a lot of people aren't saying Miami. Lebron led a bunch of misfits guys to league titles for consecutive years. If it was just him and Bosh, I think they would seriously kick some ***.

I agree with you, that is probably the league #1 and #10 right there.

icej
08-13-2010, 05:50 AM
Didn't Cleveland with LeBron and bunch of scrubs was one of the best in the league, with best season record?
Horrible bench? Eddie House, Udonis Haslem, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Carlos Arroyo compare them to other team benches and then say they are horrible.


Yeah, am also amazed how such hate on heat could extinguish men's sense of objectivity.

masTOR_shake1
08-13-2010, 06:03 AM
thunder, lakers, spurs, magic and celtics imo.

YoungOne
08-13-2010, 07:50 AM
Magic made the finals with that team w/o Carter. The Heat are still solid too. I have to think, without looking, that atlanta and portland would have great teams too, because they're just good teams all around and not built in the 1-2-+ mold.

magic had turkoglu instead, who played very well for the magic and was an instant missmatch, dont underate turkoglu because he played bad for the raptors

JordansBulls
08-13-2010, 08:54 AM
Didn't Cleveland with LeBron and bunch of scrubs was one of the best in the league, with best season record?
Horrible bench? Eddie House, Udonis Haslem, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Carlos Arroyo compare them to other team benches and then say they are horrible.

No. He didn't have scrubs.

Minimal
08-13-2010, 08:55 AM
No. He didn't have scrubs.
Who he had? Or atleast say me who was his best teammate on that team?

Steelers23_06
08-13-2010, 10:02 AM
5. Bulls-they were a playoff team already without him and after all the other teams lose their #2 they are in my top five
4. Mavs-they are already postioning themselves for life after kidd so thats not that big of a hit
3. Magic-dwight is a pressence and its easier for the 2 guard to flourish with a great bigman
2. Lakers-its kobe commonnnnn
1. Heat-i feel like losing wade is a huge hit but a lineup of chalmers/miller/lebron/bosh/haslem with a solid bench of house/big z/james jones. pretty good imo

BOSTON617
08-13-2010, 10:24 AM
5. Bulls-they were a playoff team already without him and after all the other teams lose their #2 they are in my top five
4. Mavs-they are already postioning themselves for life after kidd so thats not that big of a hit
3. Magic-dwight is a pressence and its easier for the 2 guard to flourish with a great bigman
2. Lakers-its kobe commonnnnn
1. Heat-i feel like losing wade is a huge hit but a lineup of chalmers/miller/lebron/bosh/haslem with a solid bench of house/big z/james jones. pretty good imo

bro not to sound like a homer but if you dont have the celtics asaa top 3 team your crazy losing kg would hurt us but we have shaq jermain big baby perkins etc to replace him if the heat lost wade you lost your bench and miller would start...if lakers lost pau they would have odom starting at pf.... like doesnt make sense?

BOSTON617
08-13-2010, 10:27 AM
Who he had? Or atleast say me who was his best teammate on that team?

are you serious? :facepalm: shaq, jamison, big z (who you heat fans overrate), mo williams, anthony parker, a good solid bench in hickson west and defensive help in varejao or how ever you spell it.... that team was probably the best team all around last year.... jsut chocked under preasure.... :facepalm:

Minimal
08-13-2010, 10:47 AM
are you serious? :facepalm: shaq, jamison, big z (who you heat fans overrate), mo williams, anthony parker, a good solid bench in hickson west and defensive help in varejao or how ever you spell it.... that team was probably the best team all around last year.... jsut chocked under preasure.... :facepalm:
Shaq is 38 years old and I believe he only hurted that team, especially in the playoffs. Jamison is 34 years old, average in offence, zero in defence. Big Z is 35 years old, slow, almost didn't played. Mo Williams, second best player on the team. Bench was rather good, same as current Miami's bench.
So the best player he played with was Mo Williams, who isn't even a top 15 point guard in the league. However, they had the best season record 2 years straight.
If we remove Wade, they will be still strong as Cleveland was or even stronger.

BOSTON617
08-13-2010, 10:56 AM
Shaq is 38 years old and I believe he only hurted that team, especially in the playoffs. Jamison is 34 years old, average in offence, zero in defence. Big Z is 35 years old, slow, almost didn't played. Mo Williams, second best player on the team. Bench was rather good, same as current Miami's bench.
So the best player he played with was Mo Williams, who isn't even a top 15 point guard in the league. However, they had the best season record 2 years straight.
If we remove Wade, they will be still strong as Cleveland was or even stronger.

its not about wheather or not your a top 15 pg in the league witch is debatable.... break it down real quick

williams > chalmers
parker < wade
jamison< bosh
shaq> big z

clevland bench > miami bench

you guys might have 3 big name players but the old clevland cavs were a better team all around if you look at every postion not just 3

ManRam
08-13-2010, 11:01 AM
its not about wheather or not your a top 15 pg in the league witch is debatable.... break it down real quick

williams > chalmers
parker < wade
jamison< bosh
shaq> big z

clevland bench > miami bench

you guys might have 3 big name players but the old clevland cavs were a better team all around if you look at every postion not just 3

That's a terrible way to break it down.

You're saying that the difference between Mo/Shaq compared to Z (isn't their starter)/Chalmers is more significant than the difference between Bosh/Wade vs. Parker/Twan???

Come on now.

This team is infinitely better. The bench isn't bad either. Miller, House, Haslem, Arroyo, Magloire, Juwan and Z is just as good as Anderson V, West, Z, Hickson, Boobie and Moon.

BOSTON617
08-13-2010, 11:11 AM
That's a terrible way to break it down.

You're saying that the difference between Mo/Shaq compared to Z (isn't their starter)/Chalmers is more significant than the difference between Bosh/Wade vs. Parker/Twan???

Come on now.

This team is infinitely better. The bench isn't bad either. Miller, House, Haslem, Arroyo, Magloire, Juwan and Z is just as good as Anderson V, West, Z, Hickson, Boobie and Moon.

ya im just saying in general that the cavs arent as bad as ppl thought in general

Steelers23_06
08-13-2010, 11:15 AM
are you serious? :facepalm: shaq, jamison, big z (who you heat fans overrate), mo williams, anthony parker, a good solid bench in hickson west and defensive help in varejao or how ever you spell it.... that team was probably the best team all around last year.... jsut chocked under preasure.... :facepalm:

shaq was 37, jameson proved he couldnt win while playing with gilbert and butler, mo was fabulous but couldnt get it done come playoffs, anthony parker couldnt even find a team 3 years before being with the cavs. hickson was young talent but not at all ready to be a serious playoff contributer. west isnt good he has been at the same level since he left the celtics he hasnt got better or worse and thats not good. and varejao is just hustle player. theyre job wasnt to be the sidekick but instead the support. like instead of having a robin he had a whole bunch of cops not even heroes or sidekicks he had the guys that call the superheroes because they cant cut it.

BOSTON617
08-13-2010, 11:17 AM
shaq was 37, jameson proved he couldnt win while playing with gilbert and butler, mo was fabulous but couldnt get it done come playoffs, anthony parker couldnt even find a team 3 years before being with the cavs. hickson was young talent but not at all ready to be a serious playoff contributer. west isnt good he has been at the same level since he left the celtics he hasnt got better or worse and thats not good. and varejao is just hustle player. theyre job wasnt to be the sidekick but instead the support. like instead of having a robin he had a whole bunch of cops not even heroes or sidekicks he had the guys that call the superheroes because they cant cut it.

they were the # 1 team in the east two years in a row???

Iggy8294
08-13-2010, 11:19 AM
just saying, if igoudala is our SECOND best player, whos our best?

JordansBulls
08-13-2010, 11:20 AM
Who he had? Or atleast say me who was his best teammate on that team?

He always managed to get guys who were already proven. Shaq was already a 3x finals mvp, 1x league mvp, Jamsion was a career 20 and 8 player, and Mo was a 17 and 6 player before ever playing with Lebron. Only guy who had the potential to be a star was JJ Hickson.

Besides you don't get the best record in the league 2 years in a row without having talent and support on your team.

xDaDefenderx
08-13-2010, 11:21 AM
this is possibly the dumbest thread ive ever seen

Steelers23_06
08-13-2010, 11:24 AM
its not about wheather or not your a top 15 pg in the league witch is debatable.... break it down real quick

williams > chalmers
parker < wade
jamison< bosh
shaq> big z

clevland bench > miami bench

you guys might have 3 big name players but the old clevland cavs were a better team all around if you look at every postion not just 3

are you crazy you really think the cavs are the better team? do you hear yourself? this is why i hate living in MA because celtics fan dont know what they are talking about. how in the world are the cavs better in any way form or fashion? shaq doesnt fit the style of play for lebron big z fits it wayyyy more because he spreads the floor and can shoot the mid range-3 point shot so the lane isnt clogged. and miami has the better bench because big z doesnt start, house, dexter pittman, mike miller, juwan howard. thats a better bench imo

BOSTON617
08-13-2010, 11:24 AM
this is possibly the dumbest thread ive ever seen

you been on this site for less then a month and only have 24 posts :facepalm:

BOSTON617
08-13-2010, 11:27 AM
are you crazy you really think the cavs are the better team? do you hear yourself? this is why i hate living in MA because celtics fan dont know what they are talking about. how in the world are the cavs better in any way form or fashion? shaq doesnt fit the style of play for lebron big z fits it wayyyy more because he spreads the floor and can shoot the mid range-3 point shot so the lane isnt clogged. and miami has the better bench because big z doesnt start, house, dexter pittman, mike miller, juwan howard. thats a better bench imo

well i mean its impossible to tell whos better i mean because the matchup will never happen... im jsut saying in general the cavs played really well as a team in te season but hwen the playoffs came lebron feels he needs to prove hes the best and thats when they go down hill youll see this year....

Steelers23_06
08-13-2010, 11:28 AM
He always managed to get guys who were already proven. Shaq was already a 3x finals mvp, 1x league mvp, Jamsion was a career 20 and 8 player, and Mo was a 17 and 6 player before ever playing with Lebron. Only guy who had the potential to be a star was JJ Hickson.

Besides you don't get the best record in the league 2 years in a row without having talent and support on your team.

so they are a playoff team now? didnt think so. if you have a solid team any player is expandable. your team had a solid team without jordan. lakers have a solid team without magic. celts have a solid team without anyone of the big 3. lakers have a solid team without kobe. all of those teams would make the playoffs without their star the cavs...not so much.

BOSTON617
08-13-2010, 11:31 AM
so they are a playoff team now? didnt think so. if you have a solid team any player is expandable. your team had a solid team without jordan. lakers have a solid team without magic. celts have a solid team without anyone of the big 3. lakers have a solid team without kobe. all of those teams would make the playoffs without their star the cavs...not so much.

ya but when kg missed the season we were not contenders im sure if lebron missed half the season last year they would have sitll made the playoffs and if kobe was injured same thing for lakers with lebron they would be contenders

Steelers23_06
08-13-2010, 11:33 AM
well i mean its impossible to tell whos better i mean because the matchup will never happen... im jsut saying in general the cavs played really well as a team in te season but hwen the playoffs came lebron feels he needs to prove hes the best and thats when they go down hill youll see this year....

how is he not proven. he hit a game winner in the ECF, he single handedly brought his team to the finals(only player to do that other than him is a.i.), on the eliminating game he had 29 pts 19reb 10 assists. thats proven i mean what more do you want from a player. all of the individuals accolades that he could accomplish he has now its about a team coming together and getting that ring.

netsgiantsyanks
08-13-2010, 11:35 AM
you been on this site for less then a month and only have 24 posts :facepalm:

lol. so?

netsgiantsyanks
08-13-2010, 11:37 AM
Shaq is 38 years old and I believe he only hurted that team, especially in the playoffs. Jamison is 34 years old, average in offence, zero in defence. Big Z is 35 years old, slow, almost didn't played. Mo Williams, second best player on the team. Bench was rather good, same as current Miami's bench.
So the best player he played with was Mo Williams, who isn't even a top 15 point guard in the league. However, they had the best season record 2 years straight.
If we remove Wade, they will be still strong as Cleveland was or even stronger.

go back to grammar school.

RocketPower2010
08-13-2010, 11:39 AM
* I put Iguodala as the Sixers 2nd best cuz I feel that Brand can still contribute as an elite power forward in this league.

* People really can't say that this year's Heat team is better than this year's Cavs team if LeBron stayed. I don't think anyone is here to make that claim. As much as sports writers, fans, and Charles Barkley has been lashing out at LeBron, they were doing it because of his disloyalty and lack of pride to win alone. They were not, or never will say that LeBron did not go to the better team.

* The Cavs management are real fighters, but not real smart ones. They try everything that they could to get NAMES, not players. Their acquisitions all have serious flaws. Mo Williams is a shot chucker, and needs to be hot from beyond the arc to be a significant contribution. As any shooter will tell you, you are bound to have bad stretches. What identifies a great shooter from an average one is what other tools they have and how they deal with the bad stretch. Mo has neither quality. Next is Jamison, who has excellent stats in his career, but is on the wrong side of said career age wise. He has no defense and has never won anything or even competed to win something in his career, thus playoffs pressure is new to him and he just couldn't deal with it. Next is Shaq, nuff said. Next is Parker, whose addition has miniscule expected impact to start with. He cannot create for himself and like everyone else on the team, requires LBJ to create shots for him. Now, I'm not saying this to say that Ferry didn't try. He tried and tried HARD. But blame it on luck or blame it on ability, they couldn't pull off a trade that would truly improve the team. A trade that didn't just bump them up a little, but lift them up above the rest.

BOSTON617
08-13-2010, 11:47 AM
how is he not proven. he hit a game winner in the ECF, he single handedly brought his team to the finals(only player to do that other than him is a.i.), on the eliminating game he had 29 pts 19reb 10 assists. thats proven i mean what more do you want from a player. all of the individuals accolades that he could accomplish he has now its about a team coming together and getting that ring.

the perfect player for me is pierce... he trusts his team he is a leader he pisses people the **** off and he proves hes a winner.... lebron is about lebron and only lebron thats why i dont think he has proven much.... you have to admit he doesnt trust his team he only does things on his own.... he had a really good chance to get to the ifnals last year you know why he lost??? because the celtics played as a team

Steelers23_06
08-13-2010, 11:53 AM
ya but when kg missed the season we were not contenders im sure if lebron missed half the season last year they would have sitll made the playoffs and if kobe was injured same thing for lakers with lebron they would be contenders

i didnt say contender i said solid meaning atleast making the playoffs and yea if lebron missed half the season they prob would make the playoffs but its because last season at the mid point they were 33-8 its pretty hard not to make the playofs with a start like that. but im talking about a whole season.

BOSTON617
08-13-2010, 11:55 AM
i didnt say contender i said solid meaning atleast making the playoffs and yea if lebron missed half the season they prob would make the playoffs but its because last season at the mid point they were 33-8 its pretty hard not to make the playofs with a start like that. but im talking about a whole season.

ok but say there were 0-0 would the cavs make the playoffs last year with out lebron be honest? i think they would still

Steelers23_06
08-13-2010, 11:58 AM
the perfect player for me is pierce... he trusts his team he is a leader he pisses people the **** off and he proves hes a winner.... lebron is about lebron and only lebron thats why i dont think he has proven much.... you have to admit he doesnt trust his team he only does things on his own.... he had a really good chance to get to the ifnals last year you know why he lost??? because the celtics played as a team

okay but people used to bash him for passing the ball in clutch situation and his reasoning for that is because he trusts his team even when most wouldnt. did you see the olympics or an all star game that showed that lebron can play with elite players and succeed. think of the nba like a movie. you cant have a good movie with just one actor and everyone else doing ok. you need everyone to bring everything they got every scene. or the movie is bad. no matter if you have will smith or brad pitt as the star if thats all you got its going to flop.

Steelers23_06
08-13-2010, 12:00 PM
ok but say there were 0-0 would the cavs make the playoffs last year with out lebron be honest? i think they would still

i honestly dont think they make the playoffs you have to think there was struggle to make it last season the bulls were the 8th seed and you think the bulls are better thana lebron-less cavs. idk man i think thats gonna piss alot of PSD'ers off lol.

xDaDefenderx
08-13-2010, 12:03 PM
you been on this site for less then a month and only have 24 posts :facepalm:

nope i made a new account been on since march 2009 :facepalm:

Lo Porto
08-13-2010, 12:05 PM
Utah would be up there. They lost their 3rd and 4th best player last postseason and still were in all 4 games against LA. System and coaching make up for losing just one player.

97NYer
08-13-2010, 12:14 PM
Miami would still be the best in the league....ouch

Steelers23_06
08-13-2010, 12:43 PM
* I put Iguodala as the Sixers 2nd best cuz I feel that Brand can still contribute as an elite power forward in this league.

* People really can't say that this year's Heat team is better than this year's Cavs team if LeBron stayed. I don't think anyone is here to make that claim. As much as sports writers, fans, and Charles Barkley has been lashing out at LeBron, they were doing it because of his disloyalty and lack of pride to win alone. They were not, or never will say that LeBron did not go to the better team.

* The Cavs management are real fighters, but not real smart ones. They try everything that they could to get NAMES, not players. Their acquisitions all have serious flaws. Mo Williams is a shot chucker, and needs to be hot from beyond the arc to be a significant contribution. As any shooter will tell you, you are bound to have bad stretches. What identifies a great shooter from an average one is what other tools they have and how they deal with the bad stretch. Mo has neither quality. Next is Jamison, who has excellent stats in his career, but is on the wrong side of said career age wise. He has no defense and has never won anything or even competed to win something in his career, thus playoffs pressure is new to him and he just couldn't deal with it. Next is Shaq, nuff said. Next is Parker, whose addition has miniscule expected impact to start with. He cannot create for himself and like everyone else on the team, requires LBJ to create shots for him. Now, I'm not saying this to say that Ferry didn't try. He tried and tried HARD. But blame it on luck or blame it on ability, they couldn't pull off a trade that would truly improve the team. A trade that didn't just bump them up a little, but lift them up above the rest.

naw they could have. im a firm believer that if they pulled the trigger on the stoudemire trade for hickson cavs goto the finals (not 100% win because L.A. is L.A.) and prove they present a serious chance to win mulitple rings and lbj stays. but if if was a 5th all of PSD would be drunk.

BOSTON617
08-13-2010, 01:39 PM
i honestly dont think they make the playoffs you have to think there was struggle to make it last season the bulls were the 8th seed and you think the bulls are better thana lebron-less cavs. idk man i think thats gonna piss alot of PSD'ers off lol.

ya but it would be between tornoto and cavs not bulls and cavs bulls would easily have a few more wins if the cavs didnt have lbj that isnt the argument

EaglePride615
08-13-2010, 01:43 PM
celtics
heat
lakers. no doubt their still a good team and have depth

oh and the mavsss

dbeastly
08-13-2010, 01:49 PM
Heat lose Wade, Lakers lose Kobe. Heat are better

BOSTON617
08-13-2010, 01:55 PM
Heat lose Wade, Lakers lose Kobe. Heat are better

:facepalm: whos better then kobe

Mplsman
08-13-2010, 01:57 PM
MIAMI x5

WillisLovechild
08-13-2010, 02:04 PM
Celtics,Heat,Magic would be the best
Lakers a lottery team i guess

:facepalm:. Lakers would still easily be one of the best teams.

YankeesNets11
08-13-2010, 02:17 PM
1. Magic
2. Lakers
3. Mavs
4. Celtics
5. Heat

dbeastly
08-13-2010, 03:27 PM
:facepalm: whos better then kobe

Gasol was more valuable during the finals, and since Lakers fans base every thing on finals performance(ex. Kobe is better than Lebron b/c he has rings) he is the better player.

VinceCarter
08-13-2010, 04:01 PM
This thread is very odd lol. But I'll answer it anyways... now with the Heat, it would be D-wade & Bosh, LeBron would be gone.

1) Celtics (Rondo would be gone - Pierce is still their main man)
2) LA (Kobe & Bynum still REAL good. With all the surrounding talent, i.e, Odom, Artest, Fisher)
3) Orlando (I'm guessing there 2nd best player would be Lewis?)
4) Miami (Dwade Bosh, with their crap surrounding talent.)
5) Dallas

The Celtics best to worst is something like #1 Rondo #2 KG #3 The Actress.

And the Magics second best would be Nelson or Carter. They're both better than Lewis.

LTS
08-13-2010, 04:08 PM
I'm sorry but for the lakers its not the same.kobe is the best for them but w/o pau I don't see that team ahead of others.pau is THAT important.
:clap::clap:

Read the thread, missy.

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: he obviously did read the thread ebcause he said without nyour 2nd best palyer you would suffer why don't you come up with a real argument rather then trying to put him down for using his mind

Htownballa1622
08-13-2010, 05:47 PM
:clap::clap:


:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: he obviously did read the thread ebcause he said without nyour 2nd best palyer you would suffer why don't you come up with a real argument rather then trying to put him down for using his mind

:cheers:

WillisLovechild
08-13-2010, 05:55 PM
Gasol was more valuable during the finals, and since Lakers fans base every thing on finals performance(ex. Kobe is better than Lebron b/c he has rings) he is the better player.

... Seriously? Get a clue bro, Kobe is the best player in the league, or at the very least him and Dwayne Wade are 1a and 1b. Kobe is the best Laker today, and there is NO debating that. If you want to base it off of the Finals, who was the Finals MVP again?

cowboyz180
08-13-2010, 08:42 PM
Mavs #1

Mavrix
08-13-2010, 11:56 PM
You left Terry out of the Mavs line up.

TheGsw
08-14-2010, 12:30 AM
Lakers.

hyb152
08-14-2010, 05:33 AM
... Seriously? Get a clue bro, Kobe is the best player in the league, or at the very least him and Dwayne Wade are 1a and 1b. Kobe is the best Laker today, and there is NO debating that. If you want to base it off of the Finals, who was the Finals MVP again?

Okay, you need to not let your pride make you make dumb statements. I understand you worship kobe cuz you're a laker fan. But to call wade 1b and say he's better lebron is just your kobe pride making u look stupid. Lebron is obviously better than wade.

2nd, yes. Gasol is the focal point of the lakers offense/triangle. Gasol makes it all work. Without gasol, no lakers titles. Kobe is the most graceful scorer and the more popular player, so laker fans fall in love with his smooth offensive scoring attack and his ability to hit shots in the clutch. But without gasol, the lakers wouldn't be much. Every team needs a dominant inside presence and Gasol does more than just score on the block. He passes to open shooters (mainly fisher since he comes up big from 3 land) and he stretches the paint out with his ability to hit an open mid range shot. Kobe won the finals mvp over gasol because he's the other cover boy of the nba after lebron. You know how the NBA is tainted. it's all about marketing. it's all about lebron and kobe, and the heat vs lakers. When the lakers won game 7, i was in a living room full of laker fans who ALL agreed that Gasol should have won the mvp award. I understand your man crush for kobe, but it's a fact that without gasol, kobe and the lakers would be back in the "post-shaq, pre-gasol" era aka (kwame, caron butler, smush, odom, brian cook)

SouljahPhil...
08-14-2010, 05:38 AM
Okay, you need to not let your pride make you make dumb statements. I understand you worship kobe cuz you're a laker fan. But to call wade 1b and say he's better lebron is just your kobe pride making u look stupid. Lebron is obviously better than wade.

2nd, yes. Gasol is the focal point of the lakers offense/triangle. Gasol makes it all work. Without gasol, no lakers titles. Kobe is the most graceful scorer and the more popular player, so laker fans fall in love with his smooth offensive scoring attack and his ability to hit shots in the clutch. But without gasol, the lakers wouldn't be much. Every team needs a dominant inside presence and Gasol does more than just score on the block. He passes to open shooters (mainly fisher since he comes up big from 3 land) and he stretches the paint out with his ability to hit an open mid range shot. Kobe won the finals mvp over gasol because he's the other cover boy of the nba after lebron. You know how the NBA is tainted. it's all about marketing. it's all about lebron and kobe, and the heat vs lakers. When the lakers won game 7, i was in a living room full of laker fans who ALL agreed that Gasol should have won the mvp award. I understand your man crush for kobe, but it's a fact that without gasol, kobe and the lakers would be back in the "post-shaq, pre-gasol" era aka (kwame, caron butler, smush, odom, brian cook)

lol..:facepalm: every team without a 2nd star will suck....

SouljahPhil...
08-14-2010, 05:41 AM
Gasol was more valuable during the finals, and since Lakers fans base every thing on finals performance(ex. Kobe is better than Lebron b/c he has rings) he is the better player.

don't generalize lakers fans dude..

Would we have even gotten to the finals without him? :facepalm:

hyb152
08-14-2010, 05:43 AM
lol..:facepalm: every team without a 2nd star will suck....

dude... EXACTLY! Thank you for proving my point! Without gasol, there's no laker championships. Every laker wants to give kobe all the credit, but they fail to realize that Gasol is the glue that's holding the puzzle in tact. I mean, would the lakers have beaten the celtics with this lineup?

Fisher
Bryant
Artest
???? (And if you say odom, your bench is vujacic, brown, and farmar)
Crippled Bynum (playing minimal minutes)

Without Gasol, it's more than just missing "one good player." No gasol means no post presence to open up the perimeter and driving lanes, no 22 point, 10 rebound, 4 assist, 2 block average, no 7'1's worth of defense in the paint, and no laker success.

hyb152
08-14-2010, 05:44 AM
don't generalize lakers fans dude..

Would we have even gotten to the finals without him? :facepalm:

Without Gasol? No.

SouljahPhil...
08-14-2010, 05:51 AM
dude... EXACTLY! Thank you for proving my point! Without gasol, there's no laker championships. Every laker wants to give kobe all the credit, but they fail to realize that Gasol is the glue that's holding the puzzle in tact. I mean, would the lakers have beaten the celtics with this lineup?

Fisher
Bryant
Artest
???? (And if you say odom, your bench is vujacic, brown, and farmar)
Crippled Bynum (playing minimal minutes)

Without Gasol, it's more than just missing "one good player." No gasol means no post presence to open up the perimeter and driving lanes, no 22 point, 10 rebound, 4 assist, 2 block average, no 7'1's worth of defense in the paint, and no laker success.

As I said don't generalize all lakers fan dude..real fans that our not homers realize that gAsol contributed a lot for LA to win a ring...Every team needs a 2nd player to his star..The celtics could not do it without RAy and KG..And that is why the big 3 in miami is joining coz they could not do it alone...

Every star in a team contributes..And would LA even make it to the finals without kobe?

SouljahPhil...
08-14-2010, 05:53 AM
Without Gasol? No.

I was talking about KOBE..

No team in the NBA would make it to the finals with only 1 contributing..

SAme goes for Kobe and Gasol..they are a combo..>I get your point..But mine is that without kobe LA is Also ****..

Htownballa1622
08-14-2010, 05:53 AM
dude... EXACTLY! Thank you for proving my point! Without gasol, there's no laker championships. Every laker wants to give kobe all the credit, but they fail to realize that Gasol is the glue that's holding the puzzle in tact. I mean, would the lakers have beaten the celtics with this lineup?

Fisher
Bryant
Artest
???? (And if you say odom, your bench is vujacic, brown, and farmar)
Crippled Bynum (playing minimal minutes)

Without Gasol, it's more than just missing "one good player." No gasol means no post presence to open up the perimeter and driving lanes, no 22 point, 10 rebound, 4 assist, 2 block average, no 7'1's worth of defense in the paint, and no laker success.

:up:

hyb152
08-14-2010, 05:55 AM
As I said don't generalize all lakers fan dude..real fans that our not homers realize that gAsol contributed a lot for LA to win a ring...Every team needs a 2nd player to his star..The celtics could not do it without RAy and KG..And that is why the big 3 in miami is joining coz they could not do it alone...

Every star in a team contributes..And would LA even make it to the finals without kobe?

Well I can respect your opinion then. You're one of the first laker fans i've ever seen admit that about Gasol and that every team needs 2 stars. And thank you for bringing up the heat to prove that point. i'm really surprised a laker fan on here would say those type of things about the heat/gasol. Props to u man. Good ****. You really must be a real fan, or you're just not blinded by your pride/love for kobe like 95% of the laker fans out there. You obviously don't count for that 95% of brainless homers.

hyb152
08-14-2010, 05:57 AM
I was talking about KOBE..

No team in the NBA would make it to the finals with only 1 contributing..

SAme goes for Kobe and Gasol..they are a combo..>I get your point..But mine is that without kobe LA is Also ****..

Yeah you're right, LA wouldnt win without Kobe either. But kobe gets all his due respect from the fans. I rarely see laker fans give Gasol his props. Instead, they just wanna say "KOBE'S BETTER THAN JORDAN" or some other dumb crap like that. "KOBE'S BETTER THAN LEBRON BECAUSE HE HAS RINGS" well even you yourself said lebron joined the heat to have help. Fisher has 5 rings, so does that make him better than lebron? Horry has 7, so i guess he's better than Kobe.:eyebrow:

SouljahPhil...
08-14-2010, 06:02 AM
Yeah you're right, LA wouldnt win without Kobe either. But kobe gets all his due respect from the fans. I rarely see laker fans give Gasol his props. Instead, they just wanna say "KOBE'S BETTER THAN JORDAN" or some other dumb crap like that. "KOBE'S BETTER THAN LEBRON BECAUSE HE HAS RINGS" well even you yourself said lebron joined the heat to have help. Fisher has 5 rings, so does that make him better than lebron? Horry has 7, so i guess he's better than Kobe.:eyebrow:

what can you expect from many posters here...::cool:

Talk to the real LA fans here and they would tell you the same thing I told you..Kobe could not do it alone..No player can..NBA teams are so stacked nowadays...As for rings argument I don't put much stack onto that..LBJ and fish plays different roles. so no need to compare them..

SouljahPhil...
08-14-2010, 06:03 AM
Well I can respect your opinion then. You're one of the first laker fans i've ever seen admit that about Gasol and that every team needs 2 stars. And thank you for bringing up the heat to prove that point. i'm really surprised a laker fan on here would say those type of things about the heat/gasol. Props to u man. Good ****. You really must be a real fan, or you're just not blinded by your pride/love for kobe like 95% of the laker fans out there. You obviously don't count for that 95% of brainless homers.

A lot of posters here are immature and stupid...Just don't mind them..It only causes stress on you..lol

Minimal
08-14-2010, 06:03 AM
No team in the NBA would make it to the finals with only 1 contributing
LeBron did.

SouljahPhil...
08-14-2010, 06:34 AM
LeBron did.

that was when the east was not that stacked..I think He beat a pistons team that was full of stars and borderline stars..I was referring to the last 3 years..were both conference has a lot of powerhouse teams..

Minimal
08-14-2010, 06:44 AM
And what about Pau Gasol and Kobe Bryant.
Pau Gasol was far valuable in the playoffs than Kobe, but he will never win the Finals MVP award until Kobe is on the team. When Kobe had like .200 FG% he still was jacking up shots, while Pau shot .500.
I don't even think they would have passed first round without Gasol.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwAoJBlJsC0