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STANDUPHEATFANS
08-12-2010, 02:30 AM
Would you all agree that Amare > Boozer?

Booz was thoroughly dominated by the LAKER bigs...Amare put up a better fight.

SchyGuy11
08-12-2010, 02:40 AM
Boozer is a good player, he is an offensive upgrade for us and he wanted to play here. We are better than last year, what should we have done told him to go take a hike?.....come on

CubsFanBudMan#1
08-12-2010, 02:40 AM
amare is a weak rebounder and has health concerns with his knees after microfraucter surgery

NBA-GMaster
08-12-2010, 02:43 AM
To increase the chance in getting LeBron.. before "The Decision" day.. Amare pick NY because of the money offered..

STANDUPHEATFANS
08-12-2010, 02:43 AM
For the record I am a Bulls fan and I am actually FROM Utah. I have seen Booz play the past couple of seasons.

Teams with length (Orlando/Boston) are going to give him a hard time.

Look at his stats vs. Boston this year...KG shut him down:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3632/splits;_ylt=AoBIYhZ4Rczy2gzZNIgrF5G9PKB4

There was also a dip in his production against the Magic as well...he'll have his way with Lewis but if they put Dwight on him, it's over.

:(

Amare is a better scorer and defender (Not by much in terms of defense)...Boozer has him in rebounding and passing...but overall I rather have Amare...tho you guys are right about the difference in contracts.

Cash
08-12-2010, 02:47 AM
Boozer is definetley the more rounded player. Amare's attitude also isn't something a young team can really afford to have, when most players will be looking up to him as a leader.

Hellcrooner
08-12-2010, 02:47 AM
amare did scroe more on lakers but was also more scored by Pau than Booz.

tredigs
08-12-2010, 02:52 AM
Their head to heads, for the sake of argument:

Player G W L GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
Amare 18 10 8 16 35.2 7.6 14.1 .542 0.0 0.2 .000 8.0 10.4 .770 2.2 6.6 8.8 0.9 0.9 2.2 2.2 3.6 23.2
Boozer 18 8 10 16 31.3 6.9 13.7 .508 0.0 0.0 3.6 4.9 .719 3.1 8.1 11.1 1.9 1.2 0.3 2.4 3.2 17.4

Shady66
08-12-2010, 02:54 AM
amare is a weak rebounder and has health concerns with his knees after microfraucter surgery

Boozer has way more heath concerns than Amare. Boozer is way more injury prone. Amares only 2 injuries were micro. surgery, and the detatched retina. His knees are fine and has NO injury on his legs since his surgery. The eye will be fine, as long as he continues to wear his glasses, which he will because if he doesnt then his health would be a concern. Boozers misses a bunch of games every year. Amare has shown to be fine and back to normal minus a few inches of verticle.

STANDUPHEATFANS
08-12-2010, 02:56 AM
Boozer has way more heath concerns than Amare. Boozer is way more injury prone. Amares only 2 injuries were micro. surgery, and the detatched retina. His knees are fine and has NO injury on his legs since his surgery. The eye will be fine, as long as he continues to wear his glasses, which he will because if he doesnt then his health would be a concern. Boozers misses a bunch of games every year. Amare has shown to be fine and back to normal minus a few inches of verticle.

Thank you. :clap:

IversonIsKrazy
08-12-2010, 02:59 AM
Amare > Boozer - yes i have to agree

The BUlls were going for GOld with LeBron, but they realized that Amare, and Bosh were gone the day before the "Decision", so they quickly went for Boozer.

I wanted them to go after Amare & Joe Johnson. But they were going for LeBron... and then we panicked so we signed Boozer.

5ass
08-12-2010, 02:59 AM
Their head to heads, for the sake of argument:

Player G W L GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
Amare 18 10 8 16 35.2 7.6 14.1 .542 0.0 0.2 .000 8.0 10.4 .770 2.2 6.6 8.8 0.9 0.9 2.2 2.2 3.6 23.2
Boozer 18 8 10 16 31.3 6.9 13.7 .508 0.0 0.0 3.6 4.9 .719 3.1 8.1 11.1 1.9 1.2 0.3 2.4 3.2 17.4


amare did not average 2.2 blocks

mRc08
08-12-2010, 03:01 AM
Amare has a weaker post game then boozer, he's more of a skilled dunker. The bulls needed someone who they could throw the ball to in the post and create. Boozer is better at that. He also has a better attitude. Last thing the bulls need is amare causing problems, this is derrick roses team. Lastly, boozer came cheaper than amare. Overall, one could argue that he is better than boozer, but for what the bulls needed and spent, he was a better fit for chicago. period.

tredigs
08-12-2010, 03:04 AM
amare did not average 2.2 blocks

You're right - I superimposed that. Along with the game tapes, even the live games. I gots connectionz. I'd wager that Boozer is used to getting blocked twice a game as an undersized pf.

D Roses Bulls
08-12-2010, 03:07 AM
micro fracture is serious. it ended penny hardaways career pretty much and a couple of other guys. amare doesnt play D, cant rebound and was good with nash and company. boozer is a better choice and if you dont think so you are an idiot, sorry but true

STANDUPHEATFANS
08-12-2010, 03:10 AM
micro fracture is serious. it ended penny hardaways career pretty much and a couple of other guys. amare doesnt play D, cant rebound and was good with nash and company. boozer is a better choice and if you dont think so you are an idiot, sorry but true


try again...

AMARE vs. LAL in PLAYOFFS:
6 games:
150 points, 36 rebounds, 9 blocks, 50/95 shooting, 50/69 FT's

AVERAGES:
25 ppg, 6 rebounds, 1.5 blocks per game, 52.6% from the field. 11.5 FTA per game.

BOOZER vs. LAL in PLAYOFFS:
4 games:
62 points, 52 rebounds, 1 block, 29/65 shooting, 4/7 FT's

AVERAGES:
15.5 ppg, 13 rebounds, .25 blocks per game, 44.6% from the field, 1.75 FTA per game.

CLEARLY ....



Amare > Boozer

Shady66
08-12-2010, 03:11 AM
micro fracture is serious. it ended penny hardaways career pretty much and a couple of other guys. amare doesnt play D, cant rebound and was good with nash and company. boozer is a better choice and if you dont think so you are an idiot, sorry but true

Its very serious, but he has shown no ill effects from it since his return other than his comeback year where he averaged 20 ppg. The only thing Boozer does better than amare is rebound. Are you saying that everybody who thinks Amare is better than Boozer is an idiot? Or are you saying hes a better fit for Chicago?

mRc08
08-12-2010, 03:13 AM
although stats are nice, they don't tell it all. Amare played in an offense where it was wide open offense with a two time MVP, he dunked, and shot jumpers. Boozer posts, rebounds, leads. If i step back and remove the fact that he plays for my bulls, I would say amare very well could be better than boozer, but he is a much better fit for the bulls.

ntat
08-12-2010, 03:16 AM
They took Boozer cuz hes the only one that was willling to sign with the bulls.

tredigs
08-12-2010, 03:21 AM
micro fracture is serious. it ended penny hardaways career pretty much and a couple of other guys. amare doesnt play D, cant rebound and was good with nash and company. boozer is a better choice and if you dont think so you are an idiot, sorry but true

Amare played all 82 games last season (this surgery was nearly a half a decade ago), and in the 7 years they have both been playing he has nearly the same amount of games played as Boozer, even though he missed an entire season (ok. he played 3 games) due to that surgery. Beyond that, he was SOLID this season - especially in the 2nd half when he was playing like an MVP. And calling his defense weak when the other player in question is Boozer is a bit of a stretch. They're equally sorry.

Amare's lifetime PER and WS/48 > Boozer. In their head to heads the edge goes to Amare. Overall, I'm taking Amare if given a choice of the two - and I am 100% positive you would say the same thing if the Bulls signed him instead of Boozer. "your an idiot if you dont think so", classic. Stop being a homer.

Baseballcb95
08-12-2010, 03:30 AM
ACTUALLY, Boozer picked the bulls by default, his first choice didnt want him cause they were getting 3 superstars..

thekmp211
08-12-2010, 03:31 AM
boozer is definitely a better rebounder. beyond that, i'll take amare. he has proven throughout his career that he can rise to the occasion in big games and against top competition.

this whole thing is kind of absurd because amare chose the knicks and the max salary. the bulls, nor any other team, really stood a chance to get him. boozer was also a lot cheaper.

Draco
08-12-2010, 03:43 AM
Boozer has way more heath concerns than Amare. Boozer is way more injury prone. Amares only 2 injuries were micro. surgery, and the detatched retina. His knees are fine and has NO injury on his legs since his surgery. The eye will be fine, as long as he continues to wear his glasses, which he will because if he doesnt then his health would be a concern. Boozers misses a bunch of games every year. Amare has shown to be fine and back to normal minus a few inches of verticle.

Whichever companies insure NBA contracts would disagree with you. Boozer's contract is insured, Amare's contract isn't. How many knee surgeries has this guy had? 4?

Draco
08-12-2010, 03:44 AM
boozer is definitely a better rebounder. beyond that, i'll take amare. he has proven throughout his career that he can rise to the occasion in big games and against top competition.

this whole thing is kind of absurd because amare chose the knicks and the max salary. the bulls, nor any other team, really stood a chance to get him. boozer was also a lot cheaper.

Actually NY was the only team desperate enough to offer him a max contract.

JiffyMix88
08-12-2010, 04:00 AM
Schemes play a big role. Amare is fit for the uptempo pick'n'roll offense Dantoni runs and Boozer is fit for the pick and pops and back to the basket we run in Chicago.....
We also could have signed Amare but we got a better deal with Boozer, but im not crying either way I wanted us to get one of the two and I'm happy we didn't come up empty like the Clippers did.

thekmp211
08-12-2010, 04:04 AM
Actually NY was the only team desperate enough to offer him a max contract.

right, they were the first to do it and he jumped. didn't really have a choice, as he has always seemed to be very concerned with being paid as a max player. once ny threw out that offer it was over. so the bulls never had a chance.

Knicks21
08-12-2010, 04:04 AM
micro fracture is serious. it ended penny hardaways career pretty much and a couple of other guys. amare doesnt play D, cant rebound and was good with nash and company. boozer is a better choice and if you dont think so you are an idiot, sorry but true

Of course, coming from bulls fan, there is no way that amare is good as boozer.:facepalm:

thekmp211
08-12-2010, 04:13 AM
Of course, coming from bulls fan, there is no way that amare is good as boozer.:facepalm:

"you are an idiot, sorry its true."

sorry, man. sucks for you i guess.

i dont like emoticons but imagine a sarcastic one *here*

John Walls Era
08-12-2010, 04:14 AM
micro fracture is serious. it ended penny hardaways career pretty much and a couple of other guys. amare doesnt play D, cant rebound and was good with nash and company. boozer is a better choice and if you dont think so you are an idiot, sorry but true

I was going to say something like this - minus the idiot remark at the end

Catfish1314
08-12-2010, 04:17 AM
Boozer was dominated by LA but the effort he put up against vastly superior size was very impressive. The Jazz were severely overmatched in terms of size in that series and a 6'8 Boozer was constantly going up against two lanky 7 footers and Lamar Odom who is 6'10 with a ridiculous wingspan. The fact that he managed 16 and 13 as the focal point of LA's interior defense is nothing to scoff at.

To be honest, I'm glad it was Boozer and not Amar'e. Stoudemire is a great talent and one of the most gifted offensive players the league has but he's really not good for much else. His athleticism in an up and down system get him a couple of weakside swats here and there but he's a terrible defender on the ball and for his physical gifts, he's got to be one of the worst rebounders in the NBA. If someone taught him how to rebound or even just motivated him to, he would average 10+ boards a game easily.

AllDayAllNight
08-12-2010, 04:17 AM
There is no sure way to determine who is the better player unless you want to go by stats. Amare was the center piece of that offense...he's a much more skilled dunker and shooter but he was always a liability on defense and the offensive glass. They both have their faults but Bulls fans should just be happy they got someone like Boozer who's proven he doesn't need to be spoon fed in order to score.

Rndy
08-12-2010, 04:18 AM
Of course, coming from bulls fan, there is no way that amare is good as boozer.:facepalm:

Who knows. I could see why New York is happy with Amare. However I wouldn't have been very happy with the Bulls, had they given Amare a max deal. Is Amare better offensively then Boozer? Most likely. But I'm very happy with the deal Boozer got. Plus his rebounding will help an already good rebounding team.

I wish New York luck. They have a great and loyal fanbase. And deserve big things.

Kashmir13579
08-12-2010, 04:43 AM
so they didnt strike out

monty77
08-12-2010, 04:50 AM
I don't known Amare>Boozer... But Noah + Boozer >>>>> Noah + Amare it's sure!!

knickfan33
08-12-2010, 04:51 AM
Would you all agree that Amare > Boozer?

Booz was thoroughly dominated by the LAKER bigs...Amare put up a better fight.

they were two focused on wade and lebron..... wade led them on a little.... and in the mean time they lost out on amare

Heater4life
08-12-2010, 04:51 AM
so they didnt strike out

^Thats valid enough. Boozer was just everyones fall back plan. Everyone was after Amare, Bron, Wade, and Bosh:that was tier one. Once Miami was able to aquire who they wanted Chicago luckly snagged Boozer. If Bosh and Bron wouldve gone to Chicago it wouldve worked vice versa.

Rndy
08-12-2010, 04:51 AM
so they didnt strike out

Isn't that why Knicks over payed for Amare?

Heater4life
08-12-2010, 04:54 AM
they were two focused on wade and lebron..... wade led them on a little.... and in the mean time they lost out on amare

They had their top choices and they presued them, imo they were high on Bosh not Amare. Just as were the Heat. The cards just didnt stack in their favor this time. Happens

mynameismo
08-12-2010, 05:00 AM
Why did the Bulls take Boozer?

Because he was the best available at that time. Other players already committed to other teams and Boozer was the best of the ones left.

Draco
08-12-2010, 05:07 AM
^Thats valid enough. Boozer was just everyones fall back plan. Everyone was after Amare, Bron, Wade, and Bosh:that was tier one. Once Miami was able to aquire who they wanted Chicago luckly snagged Boozer. If Bosh and Bron wouldve gone to Chicago it wouldve worked vice versa.

Not at the cost of a fully guaranteed max contract. No one wanted other than NY offered him that. Prior to FA, no team was offering the Suns much in trade when he was on the block.

TheWaterboy
08-12-2010, 05:40 AM
Amare > Boozer

Boozers contract > Amares contract

Better fit for bulls? Boozer

Close thread

DreStylez
08-12-2010, 05:45 AM
I wanted Bosh...
Bosh>Amare>Boozer
that was the order on my wishlist for the Bulls this offseason

YoungOne
08-12-2010, 05:48 AM
although stats are nice, they don't tell it all. Amare played in an offense where it was wide open offense with a two time MVP, he dunked, and shot jumpers. Boozer posts, rebounds, leads. If i step back and remove the fact that he plays for my bulls, I would say amare very well could be better than boozer, but he is a much better fit for the bulls.

it's not like boozer had a bad pointguard in utah:eyebrow:

Bulls_fan90
08-12-2010, 06:07 AM
Of course, coming from bulls fan, there is no way that amare is good as boozer.:facepalm:

Says the Knicks fan :facepalm:

redwhitenblue
08-12-2010, 06:43 AM
Amare > Boozer

Boozers contract > Amares contract

Better fit for bulls? Boozer

Close thread
Amare may be slightly more talented than Boozer, but on a yearly basis, either could outplay the other because the difference is slight.

Amare's contract sucks though. I'm very glad the Bulls don't have that contract.

SouljahPhil...
08-12-2010, 06:53 AM
if they pass on boozer who will they sign?

At least it upgraded their team..

Shammyguy3
08-12-2010, 07:31 AM
Well, Boozer is not worse than Amare if that makes sense.
Boozer is the better rebounder. He's a much more skilled player than Amare in his passing abilities and reading the offensive schemes. He's a more physical player as well. And, when looking at their percentages from the field, they're basically identical:

Over the last four years, percentages "at rim":
Amare's 68.5% (18.3/26.7)
Boozer's 67.1% (18.2/27.1)
while being assisted on near identical numbers

Over the last four years percentages <10ft
Stoudemire 49.6% (5.6/11.3)
Boozer's 45.3% (3.9/8.6)
with Boozer being assisted on more

Over the last four years, percentages from 10-15ft
Stoudemire 41.5% (2.2/5.3)
Boozer 40.5% (3.4/8.4)
with Boozer being slightly assisted on more

Over the last four years from 16-23ft.
Stoudemire 45.7% (6.3/13.8)
Boozer 45.7% (6.3/13.8)
with Amare being assisted on more


Looking at each players' true shooting percentages over the last four years though, it's clear that Amare has been much more efficient (averaging a combined years average of free throws attempted per game of 30.8 compared to Boozer's of 18.6). Looking at eFG%, they're very close in 3 of the last 4 seasons, with Amare having the better percentage in that lone season.

They both played with great point guards, so that's a moot point. Their usage percentages over the last 4 seasons are also nearly identical. But, when adding in the fact that Boozer has a career DRtg of 104 (career 21.8 DWS) while Amare's is 105 (111 and 109 the last two seasons), (career 20.7 DWS even while playing 994 more minutes in his career). Also factor in Stoudemire's career ast% of only 6.4 (tov% of 12.7) compared to Boozer's ast% of 13.8 (tov% 13.0)...it's clear to me that Boozer is the better overall player.

Davisayan
08-12-2010, 08:15 AM
If i was picking for a team starting from scratch i'd go with Amare. Only because i think if Boozer and Amare were forced to be "The Guy" Amare would slightly be better at it. But for this bulls team the clear pick is Boozer>Amare. The Bulls already have their guy and they are building around him. Boozer fits a need and doesn't necessarily need Star treatment or pay. One things certain, neither of them are worth a max deal.

Slimsim
08-12-2010, 08:23 AM
Chicago fans be honest Before the decision were you truly happy with Signing Boozer ? I know Chicago fan base are the Biggest homers, But you can't tell me that Boozer was on top of your wish list.

DisturbedFTW83
08-12-2010, 08:31 AM
the bulls have rose and a bunch of shooters, boozer is a good pound you in the paint type player. Someone said came cheap, so does that mean Carmello doesn't want to return to Denver? The bulls will have cap right? I'm just causing a stir. haha.

Seriously though, I like that the bulls got a grimy-beat you up-i'll throw elbows-play D-score-rebound type player. Amar'e has been questioned about his attitude and desire to play defense. Boozer? Not once have I heard anything about his work ethic, if there was, correct me.

Either way, both Knicks and Bulls I'm just jealous they both got a legit PF. Ours suck.

DWills
08-12-2010, 08:32 AM
micro fracture is serious. it ended penny hardaways career pretty much and a couple of other guys. amare doesnt play D, cant rebound and was good with nash and company. boozer is a better choice and if you dont think so you are an idiot, sorry but true

another well thought out argument by "the best fans in the NBA"

Khalifa21
08-12-2010, 08:35 AM
:laugh2: at people saying Boozer is better than Amar'e.

I can guarantee the Bulls would've thrown money at Amar'e instead of Boozer if he was still available... He's just the overall better player.

quade36
08-12-2010, 08:40 AM
try again...

AMARE vs. LAL in PLAYOFFS:
6 games:
150 points, 36 rebounds, 9 blocks, 50/95 shooting, 50/69 FT's

AVERAGES:
25 ppg, 6 rebounds, 1.5 blocks per game, 52.6% from the field. 11.5 FTA per game.

BOOZER vs. LAL in PLAYOFFS:
4 games:
62 points, 52 rebounds, 1 block, 29/65 shooting, 4/7 FT's

AVERAGES:
15.5 ppg, 13 rebounds, .25 blocks per game, 44.6% from the field, 1.75 FTA per game.

CLEARLY ....



Amare > Boozer

I don't quite understand this response. The guy said Amare doesn't play D and you respond with this. Boozer averaging 13 rebounds a game is huge. Plus I'd like to see Paul Gasol's stats versus the too. That would be a much better comparison. Of course unless Amare wasn't guarding Gasol, which he probably wasn't.

Just saying, you need better stat comparisons.

BTW, where are all the Knick fans claiming that with Amare and Eddy Curry they are going to be the best in the east???? Or at least a 3rd seed next year. They are usually out and about this time of the year :)

BOSTON617
08-12-2010, 08:46 AM
:laugh2: at people saying Boozer is better than Amar'e.

I can guarantee the Bulls would've thrown money at Amar'e instead of Boozer if he was still available... He's just the overall better player.

this...

Shammyguy3
08-12-2010, 08:47 AM
try again...

AMARE vs. LAL in PLAYOFFS:
6 games:
150 points, 36 rebounds, 9 blocks, 50/95 shooting, 50/69 FT's

AVERAGES:
25 ppg, 6 rebounds, 1.5 blocks per game, 52.6% from the field. 11.5 FTA per game.

BOOZER vs. LAL in PLAYOFFS:
4 games:
62 points, 52 rebounds, 1 block, 29/65 shooting, 4/7 FT's

AVERAGES:
15.5 ppg, 13 rebounds, .25 blocks per game, 44.6% from the field, 1.75 FTA per game.

CLEARLY ....



Amare > Boozer

And you clearly don't know the best ways in evaluating a player.




:laugh2: at people saying Boozer is better than Amar'e.

I can guarantee the Bulls would've thrown money at Amar'e instead of Boozer if he was still available... He's just the overall better player.

:laugh2: at you for not looking at all of the stats...he's definitely not the better overall player.

JordansBulls
08-12-2010, 08:49 AM
Would you all agree that Amare > Boozer?

Booz was thoroughly dominated by the LAKER bigs...Amare put up a better fight.

Because Amare is not worth 24 million more than Boozer.

ManRam
08-12-2010, 08:49 AM
You act like the Bulls could have gotten whoever they wanted? Amare decided to go to NYK very early on; it was clear he wanted to go there. So the Bulls snagged up the next best thing they could.

I think it's pretty obvious why they got him.

effen5
08-12-2010, 09:04 AM
Chicago fans be honest Before the decision were you truly happy with Signing Boozer ? I know Chicago fan base are the Biggest homers, But you can't tell me that Boozer was on top of your wish list.

Here was the Bulls list and this is absolutely serious and Ill find a link to back it up.

1) Dwade
1a) Lebron
2) Bosh
3) Boozer















































4) Amare


and one of the reason why most bulls fans didn't want amare is because we all knew amare wanted the max contract and we all knew he wasn't worth it.

S-Dot
08-12-2010, 09:05 AM
Because Amare is not worth 24 million more than Boozer.

Even as a Knicks fan I have to say that's a good point. Amare is better, but I'm not sure is 24 million dollars better.

Double_R
08-12-2010, 09:08 AM
Because Boozer is better than Amare and cheaper... Amare plays no d and is a mediocre rebounder and he also played in a system with Nash( I know Boozer played with DWill, but Boozer is the better half court player)

Shammyguy3
08-12-2010, 09:09 AM
Here was the Bulls list and this is absolutely serious and Ill find a link to back it up.

1) Dwade
1a) Lebron
2) Bosh
3) Boozer















































4) Amare


and one of the reason why most bulls fans didn't want amare is because we all knew amare wanted the max contract and we all knew he wasn't worth it.

There's no way Wade was our first choice. No chance. Sorry, but Lebron being three years younger and being more skilled and less like Rose than Wade is...Lebron was our first choice. Followed by Wade, Bosh, Boozer. Amare wasn't even holding any interest from the Bulls.

effen5
08-12-2010, 09:10 AM
There's no way Wade was our first choice. No chance. Sorry, but Lebron being three years younger and being more skilled and less like Rose than Wade is...Lebron was our first choice. Followed by Wade, Bosh, Boozer. Amare wasn't even holding any interest from the Bulls.

They were both our number 1 choices hence 1 and 1a

http://prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=502212&highlight=boozer

That was from July 1st. So don't act like we settled for Boozer, we wanted him.

Evolution23
08-12-2010, 09:16 AM
Who knows. I could see why New York is happy with Amare. However I wouldn't have been very happy with the Bulls, had they given Amare a max deal. Is Amare better offensively then Boozer? Most likely. But I'm very happy with the deal Boozer got. Plus his rebounding will help an already good rebounding team.

I wish New York luck. They have a great and loyal fanbase. And deserve big things.

Im gona have to agree with you. I think both players are good with their current teams because both filled the holes that needed to be filled. Bulls got that low post banger in Boozer, Knicks got the dynamic uptempo Amare. Its a win-win for both teams.

effen5
08-12-2010, 09:17 AM
Because Boozer is better than Amare and cheaper... Amare plays no d and is a mediocre rebounder and he also played in a system with Nash( I know Boozer played with DWill, but Boozer is the better half court player)

And its not like hes going to a team with that big of a downgrade of a point guard...You know, that guy Drose while Amare plays with TD?

effen5
08-12-2010, 09:17 AM
Im gona have to agree with you. I think both players are good with their current teams because both filled the holes that needed to be filled. Bulls got that low post banger in Boozer, Knicks got the dynamic uptempo Amare. Its a win-win for both teams.

Agreed. We both got what we needed.

Shammyguy3
08-12-2010, 09:20 AM
They were both our number 1 choices hence 1 and 1a

http://prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=502212&highlight=boozer

That was from July 1st. So don't act like we settled for Boozer, we wanted him.

No i don't agree. Wade was not 1a or 1b. He was #2. A 6 year max contract invested in a 28 year old that is completely dependent on his athleticism compared to investing in a 26 year old that is a better shooter, passer, and rebounder than the former player mentioned...there's really no question as to who was number one.

tjlipford
08-12-2010, 09:27 AM
Boozer was a hell of a pickup for Chicago. Gives them a all star PF, who can rebound and score. His D is not KG's D, but can play it when he wants to. They now have pick and roll options with Rose instead of 1 on 1 all the time to get buckets.

He brings another dimension to there team that they didn't have before. Him and Noah are a very good starting.

Yea, he did not play as well against LA, but this is a different situation for him in chicago.

Boozer and the Bulls will be fine next year

Team*Chicago
08-12-2010, 09:34 AM
Chicago fans be honest Before the decision were you truly happy with Signing Boozer ? I know Chicago fan base are the Biggest homers, But you can't tell me that Boozer was on top of your wish list.

Flat tell you the truth our most wanted PFs was wanted in this order 1.Bosh, 2.Boozer and 3.Amare. Boozer was wanted more than Amare here in Chicago because he wanted to play here more than Amare, his post up game was superior to Amare and he was more effective without the ball than Amare. Even though we knew Amare was better than Boozer and we could've gotten him if we wanted to get him that badly meaning he would've been in a Bulls uniform instead of a Knicks uniform.


Boozer was dominated by LA but the effort he put up against vastly superior size was very impressive. The Jazz were severely overmatched in terms of size in that series and a 6'8 Boozer was constantly going up against two lanky 7 footers and Lamar Odom who is 6'10 with a ridiculous wingspan. The fact that he managed 16 and 13 as the focal point of LA's interior defense is nothing to scoff at.

To be honest, I'm glad it was Boozer and not Amar'e. Stoudemire is a great talent and one of the most gifted offensive players the league has but he's really not good for much else. His athleticism in an up and down system get him a couple of weakside swats here and there but he's a terrible defender on the ball and for his physical gifts, he's got to be one of the worst rebounders in the NBA. If someone taught him how to rebound or even just motivated him to, he would average 10+ boards a game easily.

:facepalm: Boozer is 6'9 not 6'8. All of our PFs are 6'9 even our former PFs like Tyrus Thomas is 6'9.

xbrackattackx
08-12-2010, 09:39 AM
Amare is way better than Boozer, and It's not very close I watch the games I don't need box stats. Amare is gonna wreck the east.

Fmaranesi
08-12-2010, 09:41 AM
For their current contracts I would take Boozer, but if they are both paid the same then I would take Amare. Boozer is a good big man but against the lakers, celtics and teams with size he is pretty much ineffective. Boozer is the better rebounder but that's about it

Shammyguy3
08-12-2010, 09:43 AM
Amare is way better than Boozer, and It's not very close I watch the games I don't need box stats. Amare is gonna wreck the east.

Yeah because your eyes are a much more valuable source than advanced stats :rolleyes: look at the stats i posted...they're nearly identical in every category except Stoudemire shoots more free throws and Boozer is the better defender, passer, and rebounder. Don't know why people don't notice that.

ntat
08-12-2010, 10:00 AM
Yeah because your eyes are a much more valuable source than advanced stats :rolleyes: look at the stats i posted...they're nearly identical in every category except Stoudemire shoots more free throws and Boozer is the better defender, passer, and rebounder. Don't know why people don't notice that.

What advance stats? All any of you have brought up in this thread are points, rebounds, and the Sun's offensive pace making his numbers inflate(with no stats, people just say it.)
You can watch two players play and decide one is better even if his stats arent as high. I could bring up 2 players now and u would agree one is better than than the other.

Ray_R
08-12-2010, 10:06 AM
Amare is way better than Boozer, and It's not very close I watch the games I don't need box stats. Amare is gonna wreck the east.

Maybe if he hadf Nash but he doesn't anymore.

xbrackattackx
08-12-2010, 10:08 AM
Maybe if he hadf Nash but he doesn't anymore.

I can agree with this, Having a PG that can put the ball anywhere helps so much. Felton is not gonna produce as much results with the Chemistry Nash and Amare had.

Shammyguy3
08-12-2010, 10:11 AM
What advance stats? All any of you have brought up in this thread are points, rebounds, and the Sun's offensive pace making his numbers inflate(with no stats, people just say it.)
You can watch two players play and decide one is better even if his stats arent as high. I could bring up 2 players now and u would agree one is better than than the other.

Right here:


Well, Boozer is not worse than Amare if that makes sense.
Boozer is the better rebounder. He's a much more skilled player than Amare in his passing abilities and reading the offensive schemes. He's a more physical player as well. And, when looking at their percentages from the field, they're basically identical:

Over the last four years, percentages "at rim":
Amare's 68.5% (18.3/26.7)
Boozer's 67.1% (18.2/27.1)
while being assisted on near identical numbers

Over the last four years percentages <10ft
Stoudemire 49.6% (5.6/11.3)
Boozer's 45.3% (3.9/8.6)
with Boozer being assisted on more

Over the last four years, percentages from 10-15ft
Stoudemire 41.5% (2.2/5.3)
Boozer 40.5% (3.4/8.4)
with Boozer being slightly assisted on more

Over the last four years from 16-23ft.
Stoudemire 45.7% (6.3/13.8)
Boozer 45.7% (6.3/13.8)
with Amare being assisted on more


Looking at each players' true shooting percentages over the last four years though, it's clear that Amare has been much more efficient (averaging a combined years average of free throws attempted per game of 30.8 compared to Boozer's of 18.6). Looking at eFG%, they're very close in 3 of the last 4 seasons, with Amare having the better percentage in that lone season.

They both played with great point guards, so that's a moot point. Their usage percentages over the last 4 seasons are also nearly identical. But, when adding in the fact that Boozer has a career DRtg of 104 (career 21.8 DWS) while Amare's is 105 (111 and 109 last two season), (career 20.7 DWS even while playing 994 more minutes in his career). Also factor in Stoudemire's career ast% of only 6.4 (tov% of 12.7) compared to Boozer's ast% of 13.8 (tov% 13.0)...it's clear to me that Boozer is the better overall player.


You see that, right there? Right above me. Yeah, those are advanced stats. I could post more if you want:

Career total rebound %:
Stoudemire 14.7% (9.2%ORB, 19.9%DRB)
Boozer 18.3 (9.7%ORB, 26.9%DRB)

Career eFG%:
Stoudemire: 54.5%
Boozer: 54.1%

And as i said in my previous post, Stoudemire is much more efficient (career ts% 60.6 compared to Boozer's of 57.7%) because he has taken 874 more free throws in his career with a ft% of 75.8% (Boozer's is 72.8%).

Excluding free throws, offensively they are nearly identical. Having said that, free throws are very important. But, looking at every other phase of their games, Boozer is better. End of story.

markbutter
08-12-2010, 10:15 AM
Would you all agree that Amare > Boozer?

Booz was thoroughly dominated by the LAKER bigs...Amare put up a better fight.

I think it is what Chi was looking for: A low post game. Boozer's is definately better than Amare's in terms of back to the basket. Both can hit a 15-18 footer, but Boozer has the ability to dribble, spin and hit a fall away from the FT line in. Amare' really has not back to the basket moves, except perhaps a spin and up and under.

Amare' has averaged around 9 rebs and Boozer 10, but you would think in the pace that the Suns ran in (excluding the Shaq experiment) that there would be more opportunity for Amare' to grab even more rebs.

Boozer was a much bettr fit than Amare' for Chicago because the Bulls don't do as much pick-n-roll as the Suns (or NY now) will do. And if anything, Boozer is a better player if only because he went thru 5 years of Sloan, which I could not see Amare' doing.

xbrackattackx
08-12-2010, 10:15 AM
Yeah because your eyes are a much more valuable source than advanced stats :rolleyes: look at the stats i posted...they're nearly identical in every category except Stoudemire shoots more free throws and Boozer is the better defender, passer, and rebounder. Don't know why people don't notice that.

Yea advance stats are still flawed, You don't see when Amare draws doubles and leaves team mates open, Get's the the free throw and makes his shots. Leads the team and is a amazing one on one scorer. Amares rebounding and Defense is very sketchy yes, But he is a better scorer and on the score board at the end of the night the team with most rebounds and passes doesn't win(Even though sometime they do), It's the team that scored the most buckets. If you don't wanna scoring big man then Amare isn't for you. If you want a PF who is a passer and role player who will give you 15-18 points a night then Boozers for you. In the Bulls situation Amare would have been perfect with them having a dominant defensive center in noah.I don't even think Boozer is considered a "All-Star" he is a Star at the PF position, Amare is a multiple all-star. I forgot about all the time Boozer is double teamed, Or makes crucial free throws. Plus Boozer leaves every team he has been with for money.

ntat
08-12-2010, 10:26 AM
Right here:




You see that, right there? Right above me. Yeah, those are advanced stats. I could post more if you want:

Career total rebound %:
Stoudemire 14.7% (9.2%ORB, 19.9%DRB)
Boozer 18.3 (9.7%ORB, 26.9%DRB)

Career eFG%:
Stoudemire: 54.5%
Boozer: 54.1%

And as i said in my previous post, Stoudemire is much more efficient (career ts% 60.6 compared to Boozer's of 57.7%) because he has taken 874 more free throws in his career with a ft% of 75.8% (Boozer's is 72.8%).

Excluding free throws, offensively they are nearly identical. Having said that, free throws are very important. But, looking at every other phase of their games, Boozer is better. End of story.

Those are awesome, but they argue against u that Boozer is better. Im glad u pointed those out for everyone.:eyebrow:

Shammyguy3
08-12-2010, 10:29 AM
Yea advance stats are still flawed, You don't see when Amare draws doubles and leaves team mates open, Get's the the free throw and makes his shots. Leads the team and is a amazing one on one scorer.

They are a lot less flawed than your points per game, rebounds per game, assists per game, blocks per game, and field goal %es. You know that Boozer was doubled too right? Yeah, he was. Especially since the Jazz play a slower pace, they were very half-court oriented unlike the Suns. O, and if Amare was double-tamed so much and leaving guys open for easy buckets, then his ast% should be much higher and his tov% should be much lower. Want another stat?

Career Assists and Turnovers:
Stoudemire: 677assists with 1,325 turnovers
Boozer: 1,266 assists with 1,138 turnovers.

Yeah, double-teamed or not Boozer was better in those situations because he can actually pass the ball. And the only thing Stoudemire has on Boozer is his ability to draw fouls as i've also showed. But, when looking at their eFG%es (which doesn't include free throws) Boozer and Stoudemire are seperated by a total of 0.4 percentage points.



Amares rebounding and Defense is very sketchy yes, But he is a better scorer and on the score board at the end of the night the team with most rebounds and passes doesn't win, It's the team that scored the most buckets.

Amare's defense is one of the worst in the league. That's by far worse than sketchy. And, since he's so athletic he should be able to grab more rebounds...but, he's average at best in the rebounding department. O, and the team that has the most rebounds gets more second-chance opportunities, and that leads to more points especially if you have an efficient offense. So, again you are wrong.


If you don't wanna scoring big man then Amare isn't for you. If you want a PF who is a passer and role player who will give you 15-18 points a night then Boozers for you. In the Bulls situation Amare would have been perfect with them having a dominant defensive center in noah.I don't even think Boozer is considered a "All-Star" he is a Star at the PF position, Amare is a multiple all-star. I forgot about all the time Boozer is double teamed, Or makes crucial free throws. Plus Boozer leaves every team he has been with for money.

Boozer is a better fit with Noah, so i don't know where you are getting that from. Boozer and Noah are great passers, and Boozer is the better defender...so, he makes Noah look even better defensively instead of Noah having to carry all the load again if Stoudemire was here.
O, and if you didn't notice...Stoudemire left his team for money too, while Boozer took less money than he could have demanded to sign with the Bulls so we could afford other players like Brewer, Korver, and Watson.

And, all-star votes mean ****. It's a popularity contest. Just ask iverson and mcgrady and shaq. It's like the Gold glove in baseball.

Shammyguy3
08-12-2010, 10:31 AM
Those are awesome, but they argue against u that Boozer is better. Im glad u pointed those out for everyone.:eyebrow:

The difference between their eFG%es is 0.4 percentage points. While the difference between their reb%es is 3.6% and their ast% is 7.4%, and their DRtg is 1 point (Boozer's is 104 and Amare's is 105 but Amare has had a 11 and 109 rating the last two years compared to Boozer's of 102 and 105). Boozer's the better overall player, there's no debate.

xbrackattackx
08-12-2010, 10:32 AM
They are a lot less flawed than your points per game, rebounds per game, assists per game, blocks per game, and field goal %es. You know that Boozer was doubled too right? Yeah, he was. Especially since the Jazz play a slower pace, they were very half-court oriented unlike the Suns. O, and if Amare was double-tamed so much and leaving guys open for easy buckets, then his ast% should be much higher and his tov% should be much lower. Want another stat?

Career Assists and Turnovers:
Stoudemire: 677assists with 1,325 turnovers
Boozer: 1,266 assists with 1,138 turnovers.

Yeah, double-teamed or not Boozer was better in those situations because he can actually pass the ball. And the only thing Stoudemire has on Boozer is his ability to draw fouls as i've also showed. But, when looking at their eFG%es (which doesn't include free throws) Boozer and Stoudemire are seperated by a total of 0.4 percentage points.




Amare's defense is one of the worst in the league. That's by far worse than sketchy. And, since he's so athletic he should be able to grab more rebounds...but, he's average at best in the rebounding department. O, and the team that has the most rebounds gets more second-chance opportunities, and that leads to more points especially if you have an efficient offense. So, again you are wrong.



Boozer is a better fit with Noah, so i don't know where you are getting that from. Boozer and Noah are great passers, and Boozer is the better defender...so, he makes Noah look even better defensively instead of Noah having to carry all the load again if Stoudemire was here.
O, and if you didn't notice...Stoudemire left his team for money too, while Boozer took less money than he could have demanded to sign with the Bulls so we could afford other players like Brewer, Korver, and Watson.

And, all-star votes mean ****. It's a popularity contest. Just ask iverson and mcgrady and shaq. It's like the Gold glove in baseball.

Everyone on PSD except you and Bulls fan know Amare is better. So we can Agree to Disagree. You go jerk off to Advance Stats and I will go jerk Off to Amare scoring a lot of points.

Shammyguy3
08-12-2010, 10:36 AM
Everyone on PSD except you and Bulls fan know Amare is better. So we can Agree to Disagree. You go jerk off to Advance Stats and I will go jerk Off to Amare scoring a lot of points.

Everyone on PSD is stupid then, because the stats don't lie. You can just go on ahead and be totally ignorant of actual proof of who is a better player. I'm sure if the stats favored Stoudemire more you wouldn't be so oblivious to them. :rolleyes:

Double_R
08-12-2010, 10:37 AM
As a Magic Fan, I would rather have Boozer than Amare... I think Boozer is a better player and I think that he is a better fit on the Bulls... We will see what Amare can do without Nash.

REALLYYYYY?
08-12-2010, 10:40 AM
i definitely prefer boozer at boozer's price over amare at amare's price

REALLYYYYY?
08-12-2010, 10:43 AM
Everyone on PSD except you and Bulls fan know Amare is better. So we can Agree to Disagree. You go jerk off to Advance Stats and I will go jerk Off to Amare scoring a lot of points.

epic fail

Shammyguy3
08-12-2010, 10:45 AM
epic fail

Just ignore him from now on...he has no basis for argument so it's not worth even mentioning.

jimbobjarree
08-12-2010, 10:55 AM
cus they struck out and he was a last resort for them

JordansBulls
08-12-2010, 11:00 AM
Chicago fans be honest Before the decision were you truly happy with Signing Boozer ? I know Chicago fan base are the Biggest homers, But you can't tell me that Boozer was on top of your wish list.

For me it was in this order.

1a. Wade (simply because he is my favorite player)
1b. Lebron
3. Amare
4. Bosh
5. Boozer
6. Joe Johnson
7. Tmac
8. David Lee


And I based on how good they were and age. Boozer was older than Bosh and Amare thus he was the 3rd PF for me. Also he was the shortest of the 3.

madvillian9
08-12-2010, 11:01 AM
Amare > Boozer - yes i have to agree

The BUlls were going for GOld with LeBron, but they realized that Amare, and Bosh were gone the day before the "Decision", so they quickly went for Boozer.

I wanted them to go after Amare & Joe Johnson. But they were going for LeBron... and then we panicked so we signed Boozer.

rick ross? really? have you ever heard hip hop? dude is garbage. it's offensive that these people are still in the game.

Shammyguy3
08-12-2010, 11:07 AM
For me it was in this order.

1a. Wade (simply because he is my favorite player)
1b. Lebron
3. Amare
4. Bosh
5. Boozer
6. Joe Johnson
7. Tmac
8. David Lee


And I based on how good they were and age. Boozer was older than Bosh and Amare thus he was the 3rd PF for me. Also he was the shortest of the 3.

You never cease to amaze me JB. You had McGrady over David Lee? Wow...really you are aging fast dude. And Amare over Bosh? Hell, for the next three years i'll take Boozer over Bosh. Only reason why i had Bosh ahead of Boozer was because of age. Still though..Tmac over David Lee? :speechless:

And, your second point....height is so overrated in this league. Wingspan, verticle, strength....those are all equally important if not more important than mere height.

scutch11
08-12-2010, 11:33 AM
while boozer is better than amar'e on defense (and not by THAT much), amar'e blocks a lot more shots than boozer. theyre both bad on defense and theres no way around it. boozer is a better on ball defender, amar'e is a better shot blocker ---- therefore, WASH

boozers a better rebounder, post moves guy, amar'e is a better shooter and finisher...boozer is a perfect fit for the bulls and amar'e is a perfect fit for the knicks. why is this being argued? both teams got the guy that was BEST FOR THEM.

although noah is the perfect frountcourt compliment to amar'e...guy who does the dirty work

OA SLAY
08-12-2010, 11:44 AM
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

mikantsass
08-12-2010, 11:48 AM
They took Boozer because they missed out on Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Johnson and Amare....

But at the same time he is a good fit with the team

Shammyguy3
08-12-2010, 11:52 AM
while boozer is better than amar'e on defense (and not by THAT much), amar'e blocks a lot more shots than boozer. theyre both bad on defense and theres no way around it. boozer is a better on ball defender, amar'e is a better shot blocker ---- therefore, WASH

Stoudemire may block more shots, but that means absolutely nothing. Dennis Rodman, one of the best defenders of all time, only averaged 0.6 blocks per game. Being a good weak-side defender is not equal to being a good man-to-man defender, especially when it comes to post-defense.
So, no it isn't a wash at all. A career DRtg of 105 (that's Amare) isn't great (111 and 109 the last two years is very bad). Boozer's career DRtg is 104, which is average (102 and 105 the last two seasons)


boozers a better rebounder, post moves guy, amar'e is a better shooter and finisher...boozer is a perfect fit for the bulls and amar'e is a perfect fit for the knicks. why is this being argued? both teams got the guy that was BEST FOR THEM.

Here are there shooting stats over the last four seasons:
Over the last four years, percentages "at rim":
Amare's 68.5% (18.3/26.7)
Boozer's 67.1% (18.2/27.1)
while being assisted on near identical numbers

Over the last four years percentages <10ft
Stoudemire 49.6% (5.6/11.3)
Boozer's 45.3% (3.9/8.6)
with Boozer being assisted on more

Over the last four years, percentages from 10-15ft
Stoudemire 41.5% (2.2/5.3)
Boozer 40.5% (3.4/8.4)
with Boozer being slightly assisted on more

Over the last four years from 16-23ft.
Stoudemire 45.7% (6.3/13.8)
Boozer 45.7% (6.3/13.8)
with Amare being assisted on more

Career eFG:
Stoudemire: 54.5%
Boozer: 54.1%

They're practically identical shooters. The only thing that Stoudemire has offensively on Boozer is his ability to draw fouls. That's it.

SouthSideRookie
08-12-2010, 11:57 AM
Yeah I agree, Boozer is a perfect fit for the Bulls I think, Amare fits well with the Knicks as well, especially since NO defense Mike D is the coach. Both players aren't great on defense but at least with Boozer you get some rebounding, it's no secret that Amare tends to go through the motions at time, if you haven't realized that you just haven't been watching.

Sox72
08-12-2010, 12:17 PM
They took Boozer because they missed out on Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Johnson and Amare....

But at the same time he is a good fit with the team

Exactly.

weneedpitching
08-12-2010, 12:20 PM
Chicago fans be honest Before the decision were you truly happy with Signing Boozer ? I know Chicago fan base are the Biggest homers, But you can't tell me that Boozer was on top of your wish list.

Yes. Abso-f'ing-lutely.
Before the offseason, we all knew LBJ was a long shot. No one even considered Wade leaving Miami until he started with F'ing with everyone. The biggest need on the Bulls was a low post scoring threat. So really, their priority was a scoring PF...so it comes down to Bosh or Boozer, and the Bulls FO had Boozer ranked higher than Bosh.

Also, there's the whole thing about how Boozer is better than Amare. Offensively, Amare's numbers are a little better than Boozer, but not much. Amare also played in a system that has scored the most points in basketball every year for the last several years. They average 110 ppg yearly. The pace and tempo is what inflated Amare's offensive numbers. Boozer played in a system that scored, but not as often as Phoenix. Utah has averaged between 100 and 105 ppg every year for the last several. Like Shammy said, they are pretty much the same shooter.

Drtg:
Boozer: 102 last year, 104 career
Amare: 109 last year, 111 in 08-09, 105 career

REB%:
Boozer: 19.4 last year, 18.3 career
Amare: 14.5 last year, 14.7 career

AST%
Boozer: 15.8 last year, 13.8 career
Amare: 4.8 last year, 6.4 career

DWS:
Boozer: 4.6 last year
Amare: 2.5 last year

Boozer has less NBA minutes on his body than Amare, despite being a year older. Amare has had a MAJOR surgery, while Boozer has had more minor injuries.

Amare is a much worse defender than Boozer, and a much worse rebounder and passer. Our new coach is defensive minded, and likes to rebound and run in transition. Amare doesn't play defense or rebound.
Amare got a much worse contract than Boozer.

mikealike305
08-12-2010, 12:20 PM
they got stuck with booz.... they didnt pick him or prefer him

mikealike305
08-12-2010, 12:23 PM
Yes. Abso-f'ing-lutely.
Before the offseason, we all knew LBJ was a long shot. No one even considered Wade leaving Miami until he started with F'ing with everyone. The biggest need on the Bulls was a low post scoring threat. So really, their priority was a scoring PF...so it comes down to Bosh or Boozer, and the Bulls FO had Boozer ranked higher than Bosh.

Also, there's the whole thing about how Boozer is better than Amare. Offensively, Amare's numbers are a little better than Boozer, but not much. Amare also played in a system that has scored the most points in basketball every year for the last several years. They average 110 ppg yearly. The pace and tempo is what inflated Amare's offensive numbers. Boozer played in a system that scored, but not as often as Phoenix. Utah has averaged between 100 and 105 ppg every year for the last several.

Drtg:
Boozer: 102 last year, 104 career
Amare: 109 last year, 111 in 08-09, 105 career

REB%:
Boozer: 19.4 last year, 18.3 career
Amare: 14.5 last year, 14.7 career

AST%
Boozer: 15.8 last year, 13.8 career
Amare: 4.8 last year, 6.4 career

DWS:
Boozer: 4.6 last year
Amare: 2.5 last year

Boozer has less NBA minutes on his body than Amare, despite being a year older. Amare has had a MAJOR surgery, while Boozer has had more minor injuries.

Amare is a much worse defender than Boozer, and a much worse rebounder and passer. Our new coach is defensive minded, and likes to rebound and run in transition. Amare doesn't play defense or rebound.
Amare got a much worse contract than Boozer.

maybe YOU were ok with boozer but i dont think CHIs fan base as a whole was seriously ok with him when there were better players on the market that were all within reach for the bulls

king4day
08-12-2010, 12:23 PM
Amar'e wanted max.
Landing Boozer allowed them to go after Korver and Brewer.
Next to Miami, Chicago had the best offseason, filling pretty much all of their needs.

scutch11
08-12-2010, 12:24 PM
Stoudemire may block more shots, but that means absolutely nothing. Dennis Rodman, one of the best defenders of all time, only averaged 0.6 blocks per game. Being a good weak-side defender is not equal to being a good man-to-man defender, especially when it comes to post-defense.
So, no it isn't a wash at all. A career DRtg of 115 (that's Amare) is absolutely atrocious. Boozer's career DRtg is 104, which is average to above-average.



Here are there shooting stats over the last four seasons:
Over the last four years, percentages "at rim":
Amare's 68.5% (18.3/26.7)
Boozer's 67.1% (18.2/27.1)
while being assisted on near identical numbers

Over the last four years percentages <10ft
Stoudemire 49.6% (5.6/11.3)
Boozer's 45.3% (3.9/8.6)
with Boozer being assisted on more

Over the last four years, percentages from 10-15ft
Stoudemire 41.5% (2.2/5.3)
Boozer 40.5% (3.4/8.4)
with Boozer being slightly assisted on more

Over the last four years from 16-23ft.
Stoudemire 45.7% (6.3/13.8)
Boozer 45.7% (6.3/13.8)
with Amare being assisted on more

Career eFG:
Stoudemire: 54.5%
Boozer: 54.1%

They're practically identical shooters. The only thing that Stoudemire has offensively on Boozer is his ability to draw fouls. That's it.

well drawing fouls is a pretty big thing, but to be honest, i dont really care what the stats say. theres a reason why espn said this...

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/news/story?id=5296551
-what boozers worth

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/news/story?id=5300092
-what amar'e is worth

whether or not the knicks overpaid, they got the player that they wanted. like brian cashman said, its not about making the right deal, its about getting the right player.

theres a reason the knicks and other teams wanted amar'e, and its the x-factor. the x-factor that drives him to put up a 42 pt 12 board performance on the best frontline in basketball, with his team down in the playoffs. theyre both good fits for their teams, but for the knicks, ill take amar'e all day...just like youd probably take boozer all day.

king4day
08-12-2010, 12:27 PM
maybe YOU were ok with boozer but i dont think CHIs fan base as a whole was seriously ok with him when there were better players on the market that were all within reach for the bulls

There really weren't though.
For Chicago, it was between Amar'e and Boozer.
Although Bosh was going to Miami all along, Chicago certainly tried.

He's a fantastic pickup for Chicago. I can see them having a year like the Hornets had a few years ago when they were healthy.

ntat
08-12-2010, 12:32 PM
The difference between their eFG%es is 0.4 percentage points. While the difference between their reb%es is 3.6% and their ast% is 7.4%, and their DRtg is 9 whole points (Boozer's is 104 and Amare's is 115). Boozer's the better overall player, there's no debate.

There is absolutely a debate when it comes to deciding who is better between Boozer and Amare. Thats insane to say there isnt.

76erEaglePhils
08-12-2010, 12:32 PM
I'm almost willing to bet Boozer will be this years Elton Brand the guy can barely make a full season healthy. This was a huge mistake by Chicago you never give a guy that much bread with all the injury issues that he's had. He's only played 2 full season's throughout his career.

BrotherRedz
08-12-2010, 12:38 PM
I'm almost willing to bet Boozer will be this years Elton Brand the guy can barely make a full season healthy. This was a huge mistake by Chicago you never give a guy that much bread with all the injury issues that he's had. He's only played 2 full season's throughout his career.

:p True and Bulls fans will realize this reality and go :mad: and it would be too late ;)

fadedmario
08-12-2010, 12:39 PM
Boozer will be a broken down ball player by the 2nd year of his new contract. He can't stay healthy.

mikealike305
08-12-2010, 12:42 PM
There really weren't though.
For Chicago, it was between Amar'e and Boozer.
Although Bosh was going to Miami all along, Chicago certainly tried.

He's a fantastic pickup for Chicago. I can see them having a year like the Hornets had a few years ago when they were healthy.

u say for CHI it was between amare and boozer, CHI was very much in the hunt for LeBron, Wade, and Bosh as well, a heat fan i was more worried CHi would have a similer offseason that we hade and the heat would pick up boozer or amare

weneedpitching
08-12-2010, 12:45 PM
Boozer will be a broken down ball player by the 2nd year of his new contract. He can't stay healthy.

78, 37, 81, 74, 19, 51, 75, 81

82, 53, 79, 78, 3, 80, 53, 71

One of these is the last 8 years for Boozer and one is the last 8 for Amare
One has missed 153 games. One has missed 160

Look pretty similar, huh?
Probably can't figure out which is which?

Shammyguy3
08-12-2010, 12:49 PM
Yes. Abso-f'ing-lutely.
Before the offseason, we all knew LBJ was a long shot. No one even considered Wade leaving Miami until he started with F'ing with everyone. The biggest need on the Bulls was a low post scoring threat. So really, their priority was a scoring PF...so it comes down to Bosh or Boozer, and the Bulls FO had Boozer ranked higher than Bosh.

Also, there's the whole thing about how Boozer is better than Amare. Offensively, Amare's numbers are a little better than Boozer, but not much. Amare also played in a system that has scored the most points in basketball every year for the last several years. They average 110 ppg yearly. The pace and tempo is what inflated Amare's offensive numbers. Boozer played in a system that scored, but not as often as Phoenix. Utah has averaged between 100 and 105 ppg every year for the last several. Like Shammy said, they are pretty much the same shooter.

Drtg:
Boozer: 102 last year, 104 career
Amare: 109 last year, 111 in 08-09, 105 career

REB%:
Boozer: 19.4 last year, 18.3 career
Amare: 14.5 last year, 14.7 career

AST%
Boozer: 15.8 last year, 13.8 career
Amare: 4.8 last year, 6.4 career

DWS:
Boozer: 4.6 last year
Amare: 2.5 last year

Boozer has less NBA minutes on his body than Amare, despite being a year older. Amare has had a MAJOR surgery, while Boozer has had more minor injuries.

Amare is a much worse defender than Boozer, and a much worse rebounder and passer. Our new coach is defensive minded, and likes to rebound and run in transition. Amare doesn't play defense or rebound.
Amare got a much worse contract than Boozer.

Agreed.


maybe YOU were ok with boozer but i dont think CHIs fan base as a whole was seriously ok with him when there were better players on the market that were all within reach for the bulls

Every Bulls fan should be more than OK with Boozer...they should be ecstatic.


There is absolutely a debate when it comes to deciding who is better between Boozer and Amare. Thats insane to say there isnt.

Prove it then. Give me a logical argument. You can't.


I'm almost willing to bet Boozer will be this years Elton Brand the guy can barely make a full season healthy. This was a huge mistake by Chicago you never give a guy that much bread with all the injury issues that he's had. He's only played 2 full season's throughout his career.

I was going to comment on this but WNP did instead for me. Look below.


78, 37, 81, 74, 19, 51, 75, 81

82, 53, 79, 78, 3, 80, 53, 71

One of these is the last 8 years for Boozer and one is the last 8 for Amare
One has missed 153 games. One has missed 160

Look pretty similar, huh?
Probably can't figure out which is which?

I haven't the slightest clue ;)

xxxplicit69
08-12-2010, 12:51 PM
I definitely like Boozer since he with my Bulls. But w/o a bias opinion, I have to say that I like Amare's game a bit better because of how explosive he is. In terms of fundamentals, I would say Boozer has the edge. Both had the benefit of playing with the best PGs in the league, setting up nice plays for them. We have to see how they play with the new teams. Boozer is still playing with a great PG in Derrick Rose, but Amare doesn't have that convience in NY right now. Boozer will have the better year between the 2.

We did miss out on Bosh and Amare because of the chase for LeBron, but Boozer is one of the better PFs in the game so I'm definitely happy for the pick up. Both Amare and Boozer shoot a very high %, somewhere near 55%. That's amazing to me since both shoot their share of jumpers. Both kind of lack a defensive game but because of Amare's athleticism, I would say he has the edge over Boozer to become a good defender. He could be a great shot blocker. For Boozer to be a good defender, he would have to play smart, get stls, and use his width to box out and keep ppl out the paint.

for 20million less though, and attitude, Boozer was the better investment.

ntat
08-12-2010, 12:53 PM
Agreed, o and btw bro you messed up Stoudemire's career DRtg (you have it down as 105 when it's really 115). I know u meant to type that though, just pointing it out.



Every Bulls fan should be more than OK with Boozer...they should be ecstatic.



Prove it then. Give me a logical argument. You can't.



I was going to comment on this but WNP did instead for me. Look below.



I haven't the slightest clue ;)GTFO man. U act like ur comparing LBJ to Francisco Garcia. The fact that its debatable doesnt need to be "proven" lol. Its ****ing Boozer bro, Not Malone in his prime.

And here is my logical argument. Amare is not undersized, and is loads more athletic, and "longer". He is a ton more explosive and can errupt offensively more often than Boozer. U cant just say one of these guys just trumps the other, thats ridiculous.

camador22
08-12-2010, 12:54 PM
Amare is better then Boozer and I'm sure the Bulls would have taken Amare if they had the chance. They knew only way to land Lebron was to sign Wade or Bosh so they had to wait it out. I think the Knicks over paid for Amare and the Bulls got a good deal for Boozer. At the end of the day the Bulls missed out on any of the big 3 that could've turned them into championship contenders.

BrotherRedz
08-12-2010, 12:56 PM
Amare is better then Boozer and I'm sure the Bulls would have taken Amare if they had the chance. They knew only way to land Lebron was to sign Wade or Bosh so they had to wait it out. I think the Knicks over paid for Amare and the Bulls got a good deal for Boozer. At the end of the day the Bulls missed out on any of the big 3 that could've turned them into championship contenders.

+1

These Bulls fans should accept why he's the 3rd option big :eyebrow:, its just an average pickup for an allstar candidate

I wonder what his stats and game would look, without a great passer D-Will and a great pick and roll coach Jerry Sloan

xxxplicit69
08-12-2010, 01:02 PM
u say for CHI it was between amare and boozer, CHI was very much in the hunt for LeBron, Wade, and Bosh as well, a heat fan i was more worried CHi would have a similer offseason that we hade and the heat would pick up boozer or amare

I'm not too big on your Heat team because I wanted the Bulls to get LeBron. :cool: But in terms of PFs, I didn't hear the about the Bulls strongly persuing Amare. It was something that was kind of mentioned but the PF I thought we were really going to get was Bosh. Out of those 3 PFs I have to say Bosh has the edge. He is arguably the best PF in the game. All 3 play on a very high level though so Miami, New York, and Chicago came out as winners in picking up post players.

scutch11
08-12-2010, 01:03 PM
GTFO man. U act like ur comparing LBJ to Francisco Garcia. The fact that its debatable doesnt need to be "proven" lol. Its ****ing Boozer bro, Not Malone in his prime.

And here is my logical argument. Amare is not undersized, and is loads more athletic, and "longer". He is a ton more explosive and can errupt offensively more often than Boozer. U cant just say one of these guys just trumps the other, thats ridiculous.

this^

at first you were making valid reasonable arguments, but now your true bulls homerism is coming out...just like it does most other times on the nba forum when fans from almost every other team disagree with bulls fans arguments

there have been many valid points as to why amar'e is better....just read through the thread lol

MJ-BULLS
08-12-2010, 01:05 PM
one of the main reasons why we took boozer was because he was a player that could fit very well with our team. he is a good rebounder and a passer for a big man.

personally I didn't want amare, I could very well see him being exposed as a player without Steve Nash being his handy man and dishing him good easy buckets.

Plus Amare is a way worse defender than Boozer. he gets pretty atrocious at it.

REALLYYYYY?
08-12-2010, 01:06 PM
Boozer will be a broken down ball player by the 2nd year of his new contract. He can't stay healthy.

unlike that guy in your sig?

i think boozer will be fine.

Hangtime
08-12-2010, 01:07 PM
micro fracture is serious. it ended penny hardaways career pretty much and a couple of other guys. amare doesnt play D, cant rebound and was good with nash and company. boozer is a better choice and if you dont think so you are an idiot, sorry but true

I agree. He brings more toughness and he will rebound. I like him upfront with Noah.

Shammyguy3
08-12-2010, 01:07 PM
GTFO man. U act like ur comparing LBJ to Francisco Garcia. The fact that its debatable doesnt need to be "proven" lol. Its ****ing Boozer bro, Not Malone in his prime.

And here is my logical argument. Amare is not undersized, and is loads more athletic, and "longer". He is a ton more explosive and can errupt offensively more often than Boozer. U cant just say one of these guys just trumps the other, thats ridiculous.

I still don't see any logical argument. Amare is listed at 6-10 245 lbs while Boozer is listed at 6-9 258 lbs. One inch difference. Boozer's wingspan is 7' 2.25" compared to Amare's which is 7' 1.75" .... hey, guess what--- Boozer has a longer wing span. Stoudemire's max verticle is higher (by 7 inches), but he still is a ****** defender and rebounder. I have yet to see any stats that show Stoudemire is better overall than Boozer, especially if you take out free throws made and attempted.

Again, prove your claim.


+1

These Bulls fans should accept why he's the 3rd option big :eyebrow:, its just an average pickup for an allstar candidate

I wonder what his stats and game would look, without a great passer D-Will and a great pick and roll coach Jerry Sloan

Derrick Rose ring a bell? And Boozer was, according to our owner, our first option big. Do i believe that? Not really, but he was definitely our 2nd option. Also, how about having an actual defensive-minded center in Noah to cover up his flaws compared to a Mehmet Okur that has a worse career DRtg than Boozer?

BrotherRedz
08-12-2010, 01:09 PM
I agree. He brings more toughness and he will rebound. I like him upfront with Noah.


Sure em scary in your front court, 2 injury plagued big man (Noah showing signs)

scutch11
08-12-2010, 01:10 PM
[QUOTE=shammyguy3;14542915]I still don't see any logical argument. Amare is listed at 6-10 245 lbs while Boozer is listed at 6-9 258 lbs. One inch difference. Boozer's wingspan is 7' 2.25" compared to Amare's which is 7' 1.75" .... hey, guess what--- Boozer has a longer wing span. Stoudemire's max verticle is higher (by 7 inches), but he still is a ****** defender and rebounder. I have yet to see any stats that show Stoudemire is better overall than Boozer, especially if you take out free throws made and attempted.

Again, prove your claim.

:facepalm: you cant just take out free throws made and attempted...thats a huge part of the game. now youre just taking stats that serve your argument

REALLYYYYY?
08-12-2010, 01:10 PM
u say for CHI it was between amare and boozer, CHI was very much in the hunt for LeBron, Wade, and Bosh as well, a heat fan i was more worried CHi would have a similer offseason that we hade and the heat would pick up boozer or amare

i always just figured it was between boozer and bosh for the pf position. i never really heard much mention of the bulls pursuing amare. the last time i heard much about the bulls pursuing amare was when there was talk of chicago possibly trading tyrus thomas for him.

mikealike305
08-12-2010, 01:10 PM
I'm not too big on your Heat team because I wanted the Bulls to get LeBron. :cool: But in terms of PFs, I didn't hear the about the Bulls strongly persuing Amare. It was something that was kind of mentioned but the PF I thought we were really going to get was Bosh. Out of those 3 PFs I have to say Bosh has the edge. He is arguably the best PF in the game. All 3 play on a very high level though so Miami, New York, and Chicago came out as winners in picking up post players.

i thought it would play out with bulls getting LeBron and Bosh, heat getting Amare, and knicks getting boozer, i couldnt have been more wrong lol, either way you are right all 3 teams were winners

Shammyguy3
08-12-2010, 01:15 PM
I'm not too big on your Heat team because I wanted the Bulls to get LeBron. :cool: But in terms of PFs, I didn't hear the about the Bulls strongly persuing Amare. It was something that was kind of mentioned but the PF I thought we were really going to get was Bosh. Out of those 3 PFs I have to say Bosh has the edge. He is arguably the best PF in the game. All 3 play on a very high level though so Miami, New York, and Chicago came out as winners in picking up post players.

I disagree...Gasol, Duncan, and Nowitzki are definitely better. And, i think Boozer is slightly the better player right now (in 3 years that will change). But, Bosh could be better than Boozer. He's top 5. I have it as:
Gasol, Nowitzki, Duncan, Boozer, Bosh (only because he's more of an isolation player while Boozer is a better system player, and Bosh already has two players on his team that haven't proved to be good off the ball yet in James/Wade who have always been better with the ball in their hands).


unlike that guy in your sig?

i think boozer will be fine.

ntat
08-12-2010, 01:17 PM
one of the main reasons why we took boozer was because he was a player that could fit very well with our team. he is a good rebounder and a passer for a big man.

personally I didn't want amare, I could very well see him being exposed as a player without Steve Nash being his handy man and dishing him good easy buckets.

Plus Amare is a way worse defender than Boozer. he gets pretty atrocious at it.

Another main reason u guys took him is because he was the last upper tier player left.

jp611
08-12-2010, 01:19 PM
they say that if you have microfracture surgery within five years there will be another injury... i guarantee that during amares time in new york he gets a significant knee injury... people don't know anything about basketball, a bunch of clowns post on here... learn about sports

Shammyguy3
08-12-2010, 01:19 PM
I still don't see any logical argument. Amare is listed at 6-10 245 lbs while Boozer is listed at 6-9 258 lbs. One inch difference. Boozer's wingspan is 7' 2.25" compared to Amare's which is 7' 1.75" .... hey, guess what--- Boozer has a longer wing span. Stoudemire's max verticle is higher (by 7 inches), but he still is a ****** defender and rebounder. I have yet to see any stats that show Stoudemire is better overall than Boozer, especially if you take out free throws made and attempted.

Again, prove your claim.

:facepalm: you cant just take out free throws made and attempted...thats a huge part of the game. now youre just taking stats that serve your argument

I said "especially if you take out free throws....". I didn't take them out, i showed every stat. I showed Stoudemire has a higher ts% because of all those free throws he gets. He's much better at getting to the line than Boozer. And no **** it's a big part of the game, but not the only part of the game. And the thing is is that Stoudemire is only clearly better than Boozer in one thing- and that's getting to the line. While on the other hand Boozer is just as efficient on field goals attempted, a much better rebounder, a much better defender, a much better passer...he's just a better overall player.

Now, how about you use stats to serve your argument. I guarantee you the only stat that you will find is the free throws and offensive win shares- but Stoudemire has played nearly 1,000 more minutes. (also, Stoudemire has the edge in WS/48 minutes. ) I show every stat, and nearly all are in favor of Boozer.

mikealike305
08-12-2010, 01:24 PM
they say that if you have microfracture surgery within five years there will be another injury... i guarantee that during amares time in new york he gets a significant knee injury... people don't know anything about basketball, a bunch of clowns post on here... learn about sports

sooo because people dont know that if u get microfracture surgery that it is expected to get another injury within 5 years means they dont know about sports?

MJ-BULLS
08-12-2010, 01:32 PM
Another main reason u guys took him is because he was the last upper tier player left.

well, in the first place, we were waiting for bosh, he was our main target at the power forward position. but unfortunately he headed to South Beach. That left us with boozer. Personally he was my second choice behind bosh. just because of age, but boozer does have very similar numbers to bosh and can be said that he is a better player come playoff time. only thing different is their age.

weneedpitching
08-12-2010, 01:39 PM
Agreed, o and btw bro you messed up Stoudemire's career DRtg (you have it down as 105 when it's really 115). I know u meant to type that though, just pointing it out.



Actually, his ORtg is 115, his career Drtg is 105.

He actually used to be not awful as a defender...101, 103, 105, 102, 103 his first 5 years in the league, but then 111 and 109 the last 2 years...that's getting pretty awful...like as bad as Bosh awful.

ntat
08-12-2010, 01:42 PM
I said "especially if you take out free throws....". I didn't take them out, i showed every stat. I showed Stoudemire has a higher ts% because of all those free throws he gets. He's much better at getting to the line than Boozer. And no **** it's a big part of the game, but not the only part of the game. And the thing is is that Stoudemire is only clearly better than Boozer in one thing- and that's getting to the line. While on the other hand Boozer is just as efficient on field goals attempted, a much better rebounder, a much better defender, a much better passer...he's just a better overall player.

Now, how about you use stats to serve your argument. I guarantee you the only stat that you will find is the free throws and offensive win shares- but Stoudemire has played nearly 1,000 more minutes. (also, Stoudemire has the edge in WS/48 minutes. ) I show every stat, and nearly all are in favor of Boozer.Its simple to see what people want. in Amare bro, stop being such a homer and listen. There is no stat that says someone is more explosive, but people know its true. Amare is way more capable of going off then Boozer.
-In addition to shooting a higher fg%, and getting to the line and converting a ton more, Amare averages over 4 more points a game for his career than Boozer, but ur going to say that doesnt count because he was on the Suns.

-Amare averages 3 times as many blocks per game than Boozer but ur gonna say that doesnt mean anything.

-But when i say Boozer only averages 1 more rebound per game in their career, thats gonna be a big deal to u.

And Boozer is "listed" at 6ft 9in, but that doesnt mean **** in the NBA. Beasley was listed at 6ft10 coming in.
And im not even trying to say one is better than the other. Just stop being a jaded, stubborn, hmoer turd and admit its debatable.

Chi City23
08-12-2010, 01:43 PM
I pretty sure I read somewhere that Thibs wanted Boozer more than Bosh or Amare, but Bulls management knew that Bosh, who's also younger, was key to getting Wade or Lebron. Thibs is all about rebounding and defense, hence why he wanted Boozer over Amare (plus Amare's contract was massive and Bulls wouldn't even dare come close to it)

I still think the systems fit each player perfectly. NY will be better with Amare than Boozer and Chicago will be better with Boozer than Amare. It's a win win for both teams imo.

Scarface-Bulls
08-12-2010, 01:44 PM
acutally the bulls had bosh and boozer ranked ahead of amare..Tom Thibodeau is a defensive minded coach and he would throw up when amare wouldn't rebound or play defense

Scarface-Bulls
08-12-2010, 01:45 PM
amare wanted to reunite w/ his old coah and now he can run and gun but without steve nash. Amare can score all he wants now.

Shammyguy3
08-12-2010, 01:47 PM
Actually, his ORtg is 115, his career Drtg is 105.

He actually used to be not awful as a defender...101, 103, 105, 102, 103 his first 5 years in the league, but then 111 and 109 the last 2 years...that's getting pretty awful...like as bad as Bosh awful.

Wow...you are right. I can't believe i mixed those two up. I was getting ahead of myself. Crap, i have to go edit my posts and stuff now. Now, with that rating being much better, the gap closes for me. But, Boozer still has posted a better DRtg the last two years (105 and 102) compared to Amare's.
My apologies. I was wrong on that part.


Its simple to see what people want. in Amare bro, stop being such a homer and listen. There is no stat that says someone is more explosive, but people know its true. Amare is way more capable of going off then Boozer.

Yeah there's no stat. Amare is definitely more capable of going off and scoring 40 than Boozer. But, so is Jamal Crawford. That doesn't make Crawford a better player than Boozer though. Boozer is still better overall.

Shammyguy3
08-12-2010, 01:49 PM
-Amare averages 3 times as many blocks per game than Boozer but ur gonna say that doesnt mean anything.

-But when i say Boozer only averages 1 more rebound per game in their career, thats gonna be a big deal to u.

Blocks per game is a bad evaluator of a defender. Dennis Rodman, one of the best defenders ever, averaged 0.7 steals per game and 0.6 blocks per game in his career.

And, rebounds per game is extremely dependent on pace and fellow teammates. Look at their rebounding%es. The gap is pretty significant, especially since Stoudemire should average more because of the system he's always been in and because he's much more explosive.

PlezPlayDKnicks
08-12-2010, 02:00 PM
For me it was in this order.

1a. Wade (simply because he is my favorite player)
1b. Lebron
3. Amare
4. Bosh
5. Boozer
6. Joe Johnson
7. Tmac
8. David Lee


And I based on how good they were and age. Boozer was older than Bosh and Amare thus he was the 3rd PF for me. Also he was the shortest of the 3.

A logical and honest answer.. Boozer is nothing to sneeze at.. But Amare next to Noah would offset most of his def liabilities. On the offensive end Rose and Amare would def be the best pg 2 pf combination in the NBA period. Name a better combo in the league If Amare went to the Bulls.

beasted86
08-12-2010, 02:00 PM
Boozer is a good pickup for the Bulls. I've said this a while ago that he would fit better than Amar'e. He's a great rebounder, passer, and low post scorer.


My only issue is it would be hilarious if I could pull up some posts from 2.5 months back when it looked like there was a chance the Heat could strike out on Bosh and LeBron, and they'd be left with Boozer. You should have seen how many thought he was a guy who couldn't put a team into contender talk, and he was garbage. But now the script is changed from many those same posters.

There are even some crazy posters who have flipped so far that now Boozer is better than Bosh when they never thought that before.

Shammyguy3
08-12-2010, 02:06 PM
Boozer is a good pickup for the Bulls. I've said this a while ago that he would fit better than Amar'e. He's a great rebounder, passer, and low post scorer.


My only issue is it would be hilarious if I could pull up some posts from 2.5 months back when it looked like there was a chance the Heat could strike out on Bosh and LeBron, and they'd be left with Boozer. You should have seen how many thought he was a guy who couldn't put a team into contender talk, and he was garbage. But now the script is changed from many those same posters.

There are even some crazy posters who have flipped so far that now Boozer is better than Bosh when they never thought that before.

I think it's more just the contract and investment as a total thing than Boozer being better for me. I'd much rather invest Boozer's contract in Bosh because he's younger. But, Boozer and Bosh are very close right now and i'm intrigued to see how well Bosh becomes as a third option, just as i was to see how Gasol responded by being the 2nd option (which was by being much more efficient).

ntat
08-12-2010, 02:07 PM
Blocks per game is a bad evaluator of a defender. Dennis Rodman, one of the best defenders ever, averaged 0.7 steals per game and 0.6 blocks per game in his career.

And, rebounds per game is extremely dependent on pace and fellow teammates. Look at their rebounding%es. The gap is pretty significant, especially since Stoudemire should average more because of the system he's always been in and because he's much more explosive.

Lol ur not getting my argument, and its mostly because u guys are forcing urself not to be open minded. I KNOW Amare could rebound better, i know Boozer IS a better defender and rebounder. But is it possible that Amare could have had better rebounding numbers if his defensively inept teammates stayed in front of their men more often and helped block out more often? Is it possible that the 3 times as many blocks per game he gets thab Boozer could translate to an extra possession a game?
I think they are both terrific players and would love either one on the Kings, but to sit there and say "Boozer is just plain better. Lock the thread." Is dumb.
And to say that the fact that a player blocks more shots than another player means NOTHING is just ignorant. I know it doesnt make someone a better defender, but it means something. If they are blocking more shots, they probably alter a lot of shots as well.

Bubba313
08-12-2010, 02:07 PM
Amare has a weaker post game then boozer, he's more of a skilled dunker. The bulls needed someone who they could throw the ball to in the post and create. Boozer is better at that. He also has a better attitude. Last thing the bulls need is amare causing problems, this is derrick roses team. Lastly, boozer came cheaper than amare. Overall, one could argue that he is better than boozer, but for what the bulls needed and spent, he was a better fit for chicago. period.

^this. The Knicks got what they wanted and so did the Bulls. The Bulls needed a low-post scorer which is Boozer and they got him for cheaper than Amare or Bosh would of came for.

minervamob
08-12-2010, 02:13 PM
Knick overpaid period. We got a better all around pf and Boozer fits the team we have and his contract allowed us to build the bench with solid role players. Bulls will have plenty of length with Noah and Asik. Plus we've yet to see Amare Perform without Nash. Boozer was a safe pickup and a necessity after we didnt get Bosh or james.

redwhitenblue
08-12-2010, 02:18 PM
Boozer is a good pickup for the Bulls. I've said this a while ago that he would fit better than Amar'e. He's a great rebounder, passer, and low post scorer.


My only issue is it would be hilarious if I could pull up some posts from 2.5 months back when it looked like there was a chance the Heat could strike out on Bosh and LeBron, and they'd be left with Boozer. You should have seen how many thought he was a guy who couldn't put a team into contender talk, and he was garbage. But now the script is changed from many those same posters.

There are even some crazy posters who have flipped so far that now Boozer is better than Bosh when they never thought that before.
The Heat only picking up Boozer would not put them into contention talk. They didn't have the pieces already in place like the Bulls did.

beasted86
08-12-2010, 02:18 PM
I think it's more just the contract and investment as a total thing than Boozer being better for me. I'd much rather invest Boozer's contract in Bosh because he's younger. But, Boozer and Bosh are very close right now and i'm intrigued to see how well Bosh becomes as a third option, just as i was to see how Gasol responded by being the 2nd option (which was by being much more efficient).

I don't get what you are saying here. Bosh and Boozer make about the same money. :confused:

The difference is $100,000 to be exact according to Sham Sports (http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/index.jsp). At basically the same price there's little doubt who is the better investment.

weneedpitching
08-12-2010, 02:18 PM
Wow...you are right. I can't believe i mixed those two up. I was getting ahead of myself. Crap, i have to go edit my posts and stuff now. Now, with that rating being much better, the gap closes for me. But, Boozer still has posted a better DRtg the last two years (105 and 102) compared to Amare's.
My apologies. I was wrong on that part.



The gap still stays wide with me...109 and 111 the last 2 years (i.e. post-microfracture surgery) are terrible.

At 102 and 105 the last 2 years, Boozer is much, much better.

109-102 - That's 7 points every 100 possessions...
111-105 - That's 6 points every 100 possessions,

which are both kind of a lot when you think about how many games are decided by less than 7 points.

scutch11
08-12-2010, 02:19 PM
Knick overpaid period. We got a better all around pf and Boozer fits the team we have and his contract allowed us to build the bench with solid role players. Bulls will have plenty of length with Noah and Asik. Plus we've yet to see Amare Perform without Nash. Boozer was a safe pickup and a necessity after we didnt get Bosh or james.

and weve also yet to see boozer perform at an all-star level without deron williams...williams is just as good if not better than nash at this point...you dont think he has an effect????

beasted86
08-12-2010, 02:21 PM
The Heat only picking up Boozer would not put them into contention talk. They didn't have the pieces already in place like the Bulls did.

No, let me make this clear.

I read comments from Bulls fans who thought (think?) if the Bulls got nobody, and the Heat got Boozer only (LeBron and Bosh re-signed or went elsewhere), that the Bulls would somehow still be better than the Heat.

Catfish1314
08-12-2010, 02:21 PM
:facepalm: Boozer is 6'9 not 6'8. All of our PFs are 6'9 even our former PFs like Tyrus Thomas is 6'9.

And that warranted a facepalm? Seriously? What does an inch have anything to do with the point I made?

For the record Boozer is 6'9 and Thomas is 6'8 in shoes. Boozer is only 6'7 and a half without shoes. How do you know I wasn't talking about how tall he is without shoes? Mr. Facepalm.

Shammyguy3
08-12-2010, 02:24 PM
Lol ur not getting my argument, and its mostly because u guys are forcing urself not to be open minded. I KNOW Amare could rebound better, i know Boozer IS a better defender and rebounder.

I am open minded, i would love to see an argument that says Stoudemire is better. I would like to see if i can make a case for that myself, but i can't find anything other than Stoudemire being more efficient at getting to the line and being a better shot blocker.



But is it possible that Amare could have had better rebounding numbers if his defensively inept teammates stayed in front of their men more often and helped block out more often? Is it possible that the 3 times as many blocks per game he gets than Boozer could translate to an extra possession a game?

Amare should have better rebounding numbers because there were ample amount of opportunities in the fast-paced offense they played in along with the fact that nobody had a higher reb% than Stoudemire did:
Stoudemire 14.5% while also playing the most
Lopez 14.2%
Frye 11.0%
Collins 13.4%
Hill 10.3%

Amare was the best rebounder on his team last year, and he still couldn't get to 15% (which is still below average for a PF, especially one as athletic as Amare is). And you're right about the blocks potentially leading to another possession per game, but that's not absolute. That's probabilities and likelihood, not facts. Do you get my point?


I think they are both terrific players and would love either one on the Kings, but to sit there and say "Boozer is just plain better. Lock the thread." Is dumb.

I think Stoudemire is a very good player as well, just extremely overrated on every facet of the game. I've shown the stats, and Boozer matches up better than him in every stat except ts% and that's due to Stoudemire's great abilitiy at getting to the line. Boozer is easily the better all-around player.


And to say that the fact that a player blocks more shots than another player means NOTHING is just ignorant. I know it doesnt make someone a better defender, but it means something. If they are blocking more shots, they probably alter a lot of shots as well.

I didn't say it means nothing....didn't say that at all. I said that blocked shots is a bad indicator of being a good or bad defender and i gave an example of a great defender being a "poor shotblocker" in Rodman, and then there's also Stoudemire that is a "great shotblocker" but a bad defender. That was my point.

Shammyguy3
08-12-2010, 02:27 PM
I don't get what you are saying here. Bosh and Boozer make about the same money. :confused:

The difference is $100,000 to be exact according to Sham Sports (http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/index.jsp). At basically the same price there's little doubt who is the better investment.

Bosh's overall contract value: $109,837,500 over 6 years
Boozer's overall contract value: $75,000,000 over 5 years

My point was it would be safer to give Bosh a large contract than Boozer because he's younger (2 years right?). But, we got Boozer at a great price so the gap between them is even smaller than if Boozer got the same amount of money. Sorry for the vagueness.



The gap still stays wide with me...109 and 111 the last 2 years (i.e. post-microfracture surgery) are terrible.

At 102 and 105 the last 2 years, Boozer is much, much better.

109-102 - That's 7 points every 100 possessions...
111-105 - That's 6 points every 100 possessions,

which are both kind of a lot when you think about how many games are decided by less than 7 points.

I still think the gap is wider than most think, but when i thought i read "DRtg 115" i was really out of words for how large the gap was...like Pacific Ocean gap. Now, it's more like Hudson Bay.

Cool007
08-12-2010, 02:28 PM
All this stuff is just "meh".

Let's see them play the next season and then we will see who made the "Right" choice between the two.

People forget that Amare is getting MASSIVE $100 million from Knicks and Knicks have a LEGIT concern about Amare with that Micro-fracture surgery. He is almost due for another surgery (most likely next summer?). If it doesn't go right and if he loses his athleticism because of it then he will become a Big time baggage for Knicks. See McDyess.


As for Bulls, I would take Boozer at $75mil to $80mil deal any time of the day. He may not be a superstar but he would be a great player next to Noah and Rose. Boozer and Noah combined, give us probably the BEST rebounding front court in the ENTIRE NBA. Boozer also has a Nice Post up game, has a nice mid-range jumper and works great in pick and roll/pop situations.

Also, to those who compared his stats vs Lakers, well I have a newsflash for you guys. This time he has Noah alongside him to bang with those big boys (unlike Okur). Who knows how it translates to Boozer's game but I will guarantee that he will be better than how he was vs Lakers.

Also, we don't have to worry about Lakers until what....Finals? If we are in the finals then I could care less about Boozers' stats - I would be ecstatic that we even got to the Finals.

NJrockPD
08-12-2010, 02:30 PM
Boozer cost a lot less, apparently the Bulls thought Booz was more talented from day one, and we still got the low post scoring threat we've been looking for since Elton Brand left 8 or 9 years ago.

scutch11
08-12-2010, 02:34 PM
[QUOTE=shammyguy3;14543782]I think Stoudemire is a very good player as well, just extremely overrated on every facet of the game. I've shown the stats, and Boozer matches up better than him in every stat except ts% and that's due to Stoudemire's great abilitiy at getting to the line. Boozer is easily the better all-around player. QUOTE]

hahahaha. so how do you really feel about him?

weneedpitching
08-12-2010, 02:38 PM
Bosh's overall contract value: $109,837,500 over 6 years
Boozer's overall contract value: $75,000,000 over 5 years

My point was it would be safer to give Bosh a large contract than Boozer because he's younger (2 years right?). But, we got Boozer at a great price so the gap between them is even smaller than if Boozer got the same amount of money. Sorry for the vagueness.




I still think the gap is wider than most think, but when i thought i read "DRtg 115" i was really out of words for how large the gap was...like Pacific Ocean gap. Now, it's more like Hudson Bay.

A 115 DRtg would be terrible. The Raptors actually had 4 players with a DRtg of 115 or more on their roster last season, and only 3 players with a DRtg under 110...holy terrible.
By comparison, while the Bulls as a team were only 11th in terms of team Drtg, they had one player (Lindsey Hunter) on the roster over 110 in individual Drtg.

Shammyguy3
08-12-2010, 02:39 PM
I think Stoudemire is a very good player as well, just extremely overrated on every facet of the game. I've shown the stats, and Boozer matches up better than him in every stat except ts% and that's due to Stoudemire's great abilitiy at getting to the line. Boozer is easily the better all-around player.

hahahaha. so how do you really feel about him?

i feel he's very talented, and has never reached his potential because he's lazy. When he tries his hardest on both ends of the court, he's a top15 player in the game. But, he's a dimwit. And, he is very overrated. I still like him though, and if we got him instead of Boozer but at the same price i wouldn't be as happy, but still very optimistic.

ChiSox219
08-12-2010, 02:44 PM
I've been on record for months that I preferred Boozer to Amare as a player. For the Bulls, I think either one would have been okay because we have Noah to make up for Amare's lack of rebounding and we needed another guy who could get to the line often.

However, factoring in injury risk and the salaries each player wanted, no doubt I prefer Boozer and his superior rebounding/passing/low post/defensive skills.

Shammyguy3
08-12-2010, 02:44 PM
I've been on record for months that I preferred Boozer to Amare as a player. For the Bulls, I think either one would have been okay because we have Noah to make up for Amare's lack of rebounding and we needed another guy who could get to the line often.

However, factoring in injury risk and the salaries each player wanted, no doubt I prefer Boozer and his superior rebounding/passing/low post/defensive skills.

That sums it up perfectly without using any stats.

masalex1205
08-12-2010, 02:53 PM
Would rather have Boozer at that price that Amare at the max 10 out of 10 times

ntat
08-12-2010, 03:01 PM
I am open minded, i would love to see an argument that says Stoudemire is better. I would like to see if i can make a case for that myself, but i can't find anything other than Stoudemire being more efficient at getting to the line and being a better shot blocker.


Amare should have better rebounding numbers because there were ample amount of opportunities in the fast-paced offense they played in along with the fact that nobody had a higher reb% than Stoudemire did:
Stoudemire 14.5% while also playing the most
Lopez 14.2%
Frye 11.0%
Collins 13.4%
Hill 10.3%

Amare was the best rebounder on his team last year, and he still couldn't get to 15% (which is still below average for a PF, especially one as athletic as Amare is). And you're right about the blocks potentially leading to another possession per game, but that's not absolute. That's probabilities and likelihood, not facts. Do you get my point?



I think Stoudemire is a very good player as well, just extremely overrated on every facet of the game. I've shown the stats, and Boozer matches up better than him in every stat except ts% and that's due to Stoudemire's great abilitiy at getting to the line. Boozer is easily the better all-around player.



I didn't say it means nothing....didn't say that at all. I said that blocked shots is a bad indicator of being a good or bad defender and i gave an example of a great defender being a "poor shotblocker" in Rodman, and then there's also Stoudemire that is a "great shotblocker" but a bad defender. That was my point.

LOL i think I grasp ur point Einstein, after all i believe i used the term "Isnt it POSSIBLE".
And u could argue that Amare scores more points a game, he shoots better from the field, he gets to the foul line a ton more and a higher %, and he blocks a lot more shots. He also has some better intangibles, like being taller(Boozer is not legit 6ft9), being able to jump higher, being more explosive, and being able to take over or dominate a game offensively a lot more often than Boozer. That is enough to "make" an argument for Amare. AGAIN,I am not saying Amare is outright better, but ur argument that Boozer is just easily better than Amare is just not correct man.

Shammyguy3
08-12-2010, 03:03 PM
LOL i think I grasp ur point Einstein, after all i believe i used the term "Isnt it POSSIBLE"

Ok :rolleyes:

zambo4president
08-12-2010, 03:21 PM
Amare is not better than Boozer. And we picked up Boozer because he's the perfect compliment to Noah, He's got a great attitude and is willing to do the dirty work to make the team more successful. We coulda had Amare stand around in the paint and get yammed on but we let New York take that instead.

king4day
08-12-2010, 03:23 PM
Knick overpaid period. We got a better all around pf and Boozer fits the team we have and his contract allowed us to build the bench with solid role players. Bulls will have plenty of length with Noah and Asik. Plus we've yet to see Amare Perform without Nash. Boozer was a safe pickup and a necessity after we didnt get Bosh or james.

Amar'e will be fine without Nash. He won Rookie of the year with Marbury as his PG.
He's matured since then and while he won't put up the same numbers, he'll have an even bigger role with NY.

Shammyguy3
08-12-2010, 03:23 PM
And u could argue that Amare scores more points a game
Points per game is a bad stat as it depends on team and pace.


he shoots better from the field
Career eFG% of 54.5% is the slightest bit better than 54.1% so they are practically identical


he gets to the foul line a ton more and a higher %

agreed


and he blocks a lot more shots.

he does, you are right. But he's still a much worse man-to-man defender, and man-to-man defense is much more important than weak-side defense.


He also has some better intangibles, like being taller(Boozer is not legit 6ft9), being able to jump higher, being more explosive, and being able to take over or dominate a game offensively a lot more often than Boozer.

Boozer's wingspan is 7'2.25" while Stoudemire's is 7'1.5".
Agreed that he's more athletic and more of an offensive juggernaut. Boozer is more like a Brandon Roy though where he affects the game on nearly every level and not just offense. Give me Roy over a Ben Gordon type any day.


That is enough to "make" an argument for Amare. AGAIN,I am not saying Amare is outright better, but ur argument that Boozer is just easily better than Amare is just not correct man.

Who's the better rebounder? Boozer
Who's the better passer? Boozer
Who's the better overall defender? Boozer
Who's the better pick&roll option? They're equal
Who's a better jumpshooter? They're equal
Who's the more prolific scorer (post-moves and shooting)? Boozer
Who's the more explosive scorer? Stoudemire
Who's more athletic? Stoudemire
Who's more of an injury risk? They're equal

Boozer is the better all-around player and there's no questioning that in my mind.

king4day
08-12-2010, 03:24 PM
Amare is not better than Boozer. And we picked up Boozer because he's the perfect compliment to Noah, He's got a great attitude and is willing to do the dirty work to make the team more successful. We coulda had Amare stand around in the paint and get yammed on but we let New York take that instead.

I think if Boozer thought he was better than Amar'e, he would have demanded max.

ChiSox219
08-12-2010, 03:33 PM
I think if Boozer thought he was better than Amar'e, he would have demanded max.

Maybe Boozer didn't want to end up in a bad situation like NY, and chose to take less money.

Frankly, I don't think anyone but NY and maybe NJ would've given Amare the max.

Cano4prez
08-12-2010, 03:39 PM
Bosh>Boozer>Amare

ntat
08-12-2010, 04:31 PM
Amare is not better than Boozer. And we picked up Boozer because he's the perfect compliment to Noah, He's got a great attitude and is willing to do the dirty work to make the team more successful. We coulda had Amare stand around in the paint and get yammed on but we let New York take that instead.This is part of Bulls' fans' argument that drives me nuts. U guys picked up Boozer because he was the best that was left after u guys wiffed on everyone else. There was literally no one else to sign that was upper tier when u guys signed him. U guys would have signed 5 or 6 other players instead of him lol

Shammyguy3
08-12-2010, 04:36 PM
This is part of Bulls' fans' argument that drives me nuts. U guys picked up Boozer because he was the best that was left after u guys wiffed on everyone else. There was literally no one else to sign that was upper tier when u guys signed him. U guys would have signed 5 or 6 other players instead of him lol

Lebron
Wade
Boozer
Bosh
Johnson
Lee
Stoudemire

According to the owner he was 3rd on our list

PlezPlayDKnicks
08-12-2010, 04:37 PM
It's funny how nobody wants the 4th best FA on the market.. Prob the most offensively dominant Pf in the game today. The knee injury occurred years ago. Dominated the last half of this season. It's ok tho. David lee, Bosh, Boozer are all greater than Amare.. I'd like to know who should rebound 4 Utah's starting lineup when Okur is hardly a great rebounding center. Even Milsap looked good in Boozers absence the previous year.

ntat
08-12-2010, 04:51 PM
**** i want boozer on my team...

weneedpitching
08-12-2010, 04:58 PM
This is part of Bulls' fans' argument that drives me nuts. U guys picked up Boozer because he was the best that was left after u guys wiffed on everyone else. There was literally no one else to sign that was upper tier when u guys signed him. U guys would have signed 5 or 6 other players instead of him lol

Hard to wiff on a player you never tried to get. The Bulls were never interested in Amare

Jah king
08-12-2010, 05:03 PM
Would you all agree that Amare > Boozer?

Booz was thoroughly dominated by the LAKER bigs...Amare put up a better fight.

He is also very thirsty

JordansBulls
08-12-2010, 05:09 PM
Bosh>Boozer>Amare

Here are the three players numbers for their career.


Regular Season



Rk Player From To G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
1 Carlos Boozer 2003 2010 510 469 32.7 7.1 13.1 .541 0.0 0.0 .111 3.1 4.3 .728 2.7 7.5 10.2 2.5 1.0 0.5 2.2 3.2 17.2
2 Chris Bosh 2004 2010 509 497 37.0 7.1 14.4 .492 0.1 0.3 .298 5.9 7.4 .796 2.7 6.7 9.4 2.2 0.8 1.2 2.2 2.6 20.2
3 Amare Stoudemire 2003 2010 516 499 34.3 7.7 14.2 .544 0.0 0.2 .190 5.9 7.8 .758 2.7 6.3 8.9 1.3 0.9 1.4 2.6 3.4 21.4





Rk Player From To G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
1 Carlos Boozer 2003 2010 510 16692 20.8 .577 .541 9.7 26.9 18.3 13.8 1.6 1.1 13.0 23.6 112 104 33.7 21.8 55.5 0.160
2 Chris Bosh 2004 2010 509 18815 21.3 .571 .495 8.5 21.4 14.9 10.5 1.1 2.4 11.1 25.0 113 107 42.7 19.1 61.8 0.158
3 Amare Stoudemire 2003 2010 516 17686 22.6 .606 .545 9.2 19.9 14.7 6.4 1.3 2.8 12.7 26.2 115 105 47.2 20.7 67.9 0.184





Playoffs



Rk Player From To G MP FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST
1 Carlos Boozer 2007 2010 44 1683 365 725 0 0 162 229 141 552 124 35 16 126 155 892 .503 .707 38.3 20.3 12.5 2.8
2 Chris Bosh 2007 2008 11 421 78 180 2 12 67 80 27 99 33 13 13 25 38 225 .433 .167 .838 38.3 20.5 9.0 3.0
3 Amare Stoudemire 2003 2010 52 1935 450 861 3 15 355 474 167 479 51 51 94 139 199 1258 .523 .200 .749 37.2 24.2 9.2 1.0




Rk Player From To G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
1 Carlos Boozer 2007 2010 44 1683 19.4 .540 .503 9.6 29.0 19.1 13.6 1.1 0.8 13.2 25.4 107 108 2.3 1.5 3.7 0.107
2 Chris Bosh 2007 2008 11 421 20.4 .523 .439 7.5 20.2 13.9 14.5 1.6 2.9 10.4 26.9 106 108 0.6 0.3 0.9 0.106
3 Amare Stoudemire 2003 2010 52 1935 23.8 .588 .524 10.2 18.0 14.2 4.6 1.4 3.6 11.5 28.2 115 107 5.1 2.1 7.2 0.179

Kyben36
08-12-2010, 05:18 PM
Rebounding

Boozer > Amare

Defense

Boozer = Amare

Offense Amare > Boozer

Injruy

Boozer = Amare

Passing

Boozer > Amare
Pay

amare max > Boozer

I would not say that amare is worse, but Boozer was a better deal. Boozer has health issues yes, but he didnt get any type of serious injury last year with Milsap giving him a nice break, And the bulls have their own form of Milsap in Taj Gibson. While, both have health issues. the chance that Amre completely blows out his knee would be devestating to the NY knicks, While Boozer could play half season his hole contract, amare could end up play no games if his knee gives out. which would put a max contract doing nothing on the bench, without his explosivness, I dont think Amare has the skill to remain a starter in the NBA. thats my opionion, Also, Amare got alot of his points off of Nash as well, so we will ahve to wait and see how amare fairs without Nash. sure, you may run the same system that you had with Dantoni, but Dantoni also had steve nash to run his system.

Shammyguy3
08-12-2010, 05:24 PM
Boozer's defense is considerably better than Amare's Kyben.

effen5
08-12-2010, 06:27 PM
This is part of Bulls' fans' argument that drives me nuts. U guys picked up Boozer because he was the best that was left after u guys wiffed on everyone else. There was literally no one else to sign that was upper tier when u guys signed him. U guys would have signed 5 or 6 other players instead of him lol

Do me a favor and search the bulls thread before you say something ******** like this.


After the big 2 Dwade/Bron us fans wanted

1) Bosh
2) Boozer
3) Amare


have you heard during the FA talks anything about Amare to Chicago? Did we even talk to him in the offseason? The only time we wanted Amare was during the trade deadline so we can get TT off our hands and have a loaner until the offseason.

PrettyBoyJ
08-12-2010, 06:54 PM
why is everyone concerned about Amar'e knee, I understand he's undergo a micro & artho, but his numbers hasnt declined opposed to those who had the surgery and are no longer in the league or getting veterans minimums.. He's had 4 allstar years after the surgery why is everyone so concerned now?

minervamob
08-12-2010, 07:04 PM
and weve also yet to see boozer perform at an all-star level without deron williams...williams is just as good if not better than nash at this point...you dont think he has an effect????

Boozer has been in the league longer than Deron Williams. Jazz stole him away from Cleveland for a reason. Hes productive. His 2nd season in Cleveland he averaged 15.5ppg and 11.4 rebs. In his 1st season in Utah before Williams was drafted, he avereaged 17.8ppg and 9 rebs. Those are solid numbers for a 3rd year guy drafted on the second round.

Draco
08-12-2010, 07:42 PM
they got stuck with booz.... they didnt pick him or prefer him

Actually Forman said that Boozer was their top rated power forward in this free agency. The Bulls' interest in Bosh might have been limited to and tied into their interest in Lebron and the possibility that Lebron preferred to play with Bosh. As far as Amare goes, there's no reason to think the Bulls were interested in him. No team other than NY made him a guaranteed max offer and no team prior to free agency offered the Suns much in trade.

Draco
08-12-2010, 07:44 PM
why is everyone concerned about Amar'e knee, I understand he's undergo a micro & artho, but his numbers hasnt declined opposed to those who had the surgery and are no longer in the league or getting veterans minimums.. He's had 4 allstar years after the surgery why is everyone so concerned now?

29 GMs not named Walsh were concerned about his production three years into a five year contract.

PrestigeWldWde
08-12-2010, 07:44 PM
Would you all agree that Amare > Boozer?

Booz was thoroughly dominated by the LAKER bigs...Amare put up a better fight.

No wonder you got banned.
Boozer is a better ALL-AROUND player than Amare. Against the Lakers, Boozer was playing out of position at Center. Besides that, tell me someone who doesn't get treated by Gasol and Bynum??? The point is, Boozer moved from a team with no low post help to a team with plenty of low post help in Noah, Kurt Thomas, and Asik. I'm not saying I would take Noah and Boozer over Bynum and Gasol, but Noah and Boozer match up to them as good as any 2 bigs in the league. Noah is a very good defensive post player and help defender. Boozer never had a player like that in Utah. And really guys, is there a better pair of rebounders on any team in the league?

LTS
08-12-2010, 07:51 PM
Amare > Boozer - yes i have to agree

The BUlls were going for GOld with LeBron, but they realized that Amare, and Bosh were gone the day before the "Decision", so they quickly went for Boozer.

I wanted them to go after Amare & Joe Johnson. But they were going for LeBron... and then we panicked so we signed Boozer.

That about sums it up and I as a non-involved fan wouldnt of signed boozer to much $ for what he brings to the table