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View Full Version : Hornets, Rockets, Pacers and Nets complete 4 team trade



Gators123
08-11-2010, 01:01 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5455472


Four NBA teams are on the verge of a five-player trade that will send Trevor Ariza to the New Orleans Hornets and Darren Collison to the Indiana Pacers, two league sources said.

In the proposed deal, the Houston Rockets will send Ariza to the Hornets, who in turn will send Collison and James Posey to the Pacers.

The Pacers will send Troy Murphy to the New Jersey Nets. And the Nets will send Courtney Lee to the Rockets.

According to the sources the Rockets, Hornets, Pacers and Nets are in advanced discussions on the deal and the principals involved are set. The teams were ironing out details, including Posey's trade kicker and possible cash payments.

The deal, if completed, could fulfill some long-term needs for the Hornets, Pacers and Nets, as well as provide needed salary relief for the Rockets.

For the Hornets, while moving Collison leaves the team without a credible backup for Chris Paul, the addition of Ariza gives them a young, athletic wing entering his prime.

The Hornets are hoping that the addition of Ariza quiets the complaints address Paul's concerns about the team's commitment winning by showing that they're willing to spend money to get better. Ariza signed a six year, $35 million dollar deal with the Rockets last summer.

For the Pacers, landing Collison gives them the young starting point guard they've been looking for and adds another piece to a young core of players including Danny Granger, Roy Hibbert and promising rookies Paul George and Lance Stephenson.

The Pacers did take on the last two years and $13 million of Posey's contract, but the deal also sliced another $4 million off the team's overall payroll.

In Murphy, the Nets get the veteran big man that new coach Avery Johnson has been coveting. Murphy is also on the last year of his contract, which could make him an important trading chip for the Nets at the 2011 trade deadline.

For the Rockets, aside from acquiring Lee, the move is largely a salary dump. This summer the Rockets spent a lot of cash signing Luis Scola, Kyle Lowry and Brad Miller to free agent contracts and their payroll ballooned to $81 million. Before the trade, the team was bracing for a $10 million-plus luxury tax hit. The deal would save them $28 million on the life of the contracts and $10 million this season, including luxury tax considerations.

arkanian215
08-11-2010, 01:03 PM
edit: nevermind yay...

I thought C Lee was gonna head to the Pacers

lakers4sho
08-11-2010, 01:04 PM
More PGs for Indiana...

Shahrose
08-11-2010, 01:04 PM
Sounds like NJ would get the best deal
and idk if i would want to trade collision tbh =/

MJ-BULLS
08-11-2010, 01:05 PM
so the nets are interested in trading Lee.

pretty big trade if it goes down.

Gators123
08-11-2010, 01:05 PM
I didn't think NO wanted to trade Collison.

Sixerlover
08-11-2010, 01:05 PM
Finally the pacers will get their PG

Shahrose
08-11-2010, 01:06 PM
so the nets are interested in trading Lee.

pretty big trade if it goes down.

Haha we should go after Lee. Although I doubt they would want J.Johnson + 1st

DCSportsIsPain
08-11-2010, 01:07 PM
It works but it is basically just trading players. Not much improvement for any of the teams.

Khalifa21
08-11-2010, 01:08 PM
This must mean the Hornets have patched things up with CP3... If he was still demanding a trade no way would they pull the trigger on a deal that would ship out Collison.

MJ-BULLS
08-11-2010, 01:09 PM
Haha we should go after Lee. Although I doubt they would want J.Johnson + 1st

I would love to have lee, but they are not going to bite on that kind of deal.

Plus, they already have T will which they love and are real high on him.

NYKalltheway
08-11-2010, 01:10 PM
If the Hornets get rid of Okafor for 2 good players, well done to them ;)

(That would be helpful for a potential Chris Paul trade, you know :D)

Ragun
08-11-2010, 01:11 PM
i actually like the trade for all the teams involved except for houston. ariza for courtney lee is a downgrade.

Mr Moody
08-11-2010, 01:11 PM
Desperate move by NO to try and please cp3? Hopefully it doesn't back fire on them

arkanian215
08-11-2010, 01:12 PM
It works but it is basically just trading players. Not much improvement for any of the teams.

I disagree. There's a possibility that Courtney Lee was third in the SG depth chart in NJ. We're pretty much trading our backup SG for a starting PF.

ManRam
08-11-2010, 01:12 PM
More evidence that suggests that all this Chris Paul talk was nothing more than a pipe-dream orgy. They're making the right decision in moving Collison and not Paul.

Khalifa21
08-11-2010, 01:13 PM
I have no idea why the Rockets would do this. Basically trading Ariza for Lee... Especially when they have Martin.

Good deal for Nets, but it takes minutes away from Derrick Favors and his growth. He's not ready to start yet though.

The Pacers get their PG but who plays PF for them now? Maybe they'll package TJ Ford and some pieces to pick up a starting 4.

I would've thought the Hornets would've been able to get more for Collison but they get rid of Posey's contract and get a nice young piece in Ariza.

arkanian215
08-11-2010, 01:15 PM
i actually like the trade for all the teams involved except for houston. ariza for courtney lee is a downgrade.

Maybe they're getting a pick somewhere? NJ has GSW's 2nd next year.
It could be motivated by finances. They just spent a ton of money retaining Scola and Lowry and bringing in Brad Miller.

IAmKira
08-11-2010, 01:15 PM
how does money work for Nets? Aint murphy owned 12mil or something? while lee is only getting 2-3?

arkanian215
08-11-2010, 01:16 PM
how does money work for Nets? Aint murphy owned 12mil or something? while lee is only getting 2-3?

We have around $14 mil in cap space still.

Trouble87
08-11-2010, 01:16 PM
Ind is gonna be a problem if they get Collison

I hope this trade goes down, every team involved will get better

John Walls Era
08-11-2010, 01:17 PM
What do the Rockets get out of this?

John Walls Era
08-11-2010, 01:18 PM
Maybe they're getting a pick somewhere? NJ has GSW's 2nd next year.
It could be motivated by finances. They just spent a ton of money retaining Scola and Lowry and bringing in Brad Miller.

Houston has made it clear that they don't care how much money they spend. They want to win and Morey has the greenlight to do w.e. he wants.

ManRam
08-11-2010, 01:19 PM
I'm sure there would be other players involved. I'm not as high on Trevor as most people, so I don't think the Ariza for Lee swap is terrible...but even I wouldn't do that.

xbrackattackx
08-11-2010, 01:24 PM
I like it for Indiana and Nets the most. But I'm not even getting my hopes up most of these fall though.

jasondrobinson
08-11-2010, 01:24 PM
Good deal for ind, nj and no. Not sure the reasoning for hou,starting sf for a back up sg.

PistonsFan14
08-11-2010, 01:25 PM
so the rockets would trade courtney lee for ariza essentially? bad move for the rockets IMO

S-Dot
08-11-2010, 01:25 PM
Courtney Lee for Ariza...not too sure about this one. Also, New Orleans seems to be doing whatever they can to keep CP3.

xbrackattackx
08-11-2010, 01:27 PM
Is Lee a expiring? Maybe houston finally realized what Phil knew, Ariza is a role player.

And they regret signing that contact. Plus we know K-Mart will miss at least 30 games some one has to step up for him. And Rockets aren't that deep at SG.

m26555
08-11-2010, 01:30 PM
This could very well mean that Paul is staying in New Orleans long-term. If not, then New Orleans just got ripped. Collison is worth much more than Trevor Ariza.

nuggetsyankees
08-11-2010, 01:30 PM
this deal may hinder Favors' development

cheetos185
08-11-2010, 01:32 PM
this deal may hinder Favors' development

murphy is expiring

GMEN4EVER
08-11-2010, 01:32 PM
Very curious why people hate this deal for the rockets. It sort of makes sense if you think they want to play Shane 35+ minutes a night at the 3. Martin is very injury prone, so upgrading the back up SG spot is probably a good idea. He's much more likely to be out then Shane is, so back up SG takes precedence. And Jared Jeffries can play the 3. He's useless on offense no matter where he plays, but he is capable of defending at the 3 spot.

S-Dot
08-11-2010, 01:34 PM
this deal may hinder Favors' development

I believe Murphy has an expiring contract. Plus he and Favors play so differently that Avery will find situations that will benefit Derrick. He doesn't have to start this year, and who knows, he could take Troy Murphy's spot.

Htownballa1622
08-11-2010, 01:35 PM
Im a rockets fan and I don't understand or like this

saintdrew
08-11-2010, 01:35 PM
Wow....As a Hornets fan I'm shocked we're parting ways with Darren Collison for just Trevor Ariza. Our new GM, Dell Demps did emphasize in press conference that we would not improve our roster by free agency but rather trading with other clubs.

This solidifies that Chris Paul is staying in New Orleans...at least for the next 2 years I guess because we would never trade Collison if that meant Paul could potentially leave.

Well I'll be glad if we ship off James Poseys contract finally. Gah that thing deal was awful.

PG-Chris Paul
SG-Marcus Thornton
SF-Trevor Ariza
PF-David West
C-Emeka Okafor

^ Eehhhhhh that's not bad. We still have Peja and his $15million expiring.

Gators123
08-11-2010, 01:37 PM
Updated story

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5455472

cheetos185
08-11-2010, 01:38 PM
Im a rockets fan and I don't understand or like this

Ariza was overpaid role player battier is better Sf than him good for rockets they got rid of his salary and got some talent in return

cheetos185
08-11-2010, 01:41 PM
If this happens than the pacers made out like bandit collinson for murphy is a steal hornets taking a big gamble to make CP3 happy

awmathewsjr
08-11-2010, 01:42 PM
I pray that this deal dosen't happen.

Htownballa1622
08-11-2010, 01:44 PM
Ariza was overpaid role player battier is better Sf than him good for rockets they got rid of his salary and got some talent in return

True I just felt he would be traded in a bigger deal

Young and Stupid
08-11-2010, 01:45 PM
this deal may hinder Favors' development

Favors isn't ready to start and unless he really hits his stride he won't be ready to until next year.

As others have pointed out, it would work for the Nets frontline because Murphy can play off Lopez and his style is repugnant of Favors'.

mpickup
08-11-2010, 01:47 PM
Details available show the following:

Indiana Pacers receiving their franchise PG in Darren Collison, and James Posey as a throw-in. They'd have to be thrilled about this deal.

New Jersey Nets receiving Troy Murphy's skill at PF to help Favours, and his big $12M ending contract.

Houston Rockets getting yet another shooting guard in Courtney Lee.

And Trevor Ariza heading to the Hornets to run the wing with CP3. Would a move like this be enough to keep Paul happy? Maybe not, but it's a step in the right direction!


http://www.nbadaily.net/wiretaps.cfm?id=696

good for indy

TaylorMays
08-11-2010, 01:49 PM
maybe the rockets will include k-mart to pacers and get granger :D

NBA-GMaster
08-11-2010, 01:49 PM
Ariza was overpaid role player battier is better Sf than him good for rockets they got rid of his salary and got some talent in return

If the Rockets receive a draft pick then im ok with this trade..
Collison and Posey > Ariza
Ariza > Lee
Murphy < Collison and Posey
Lee < Murphy (expiring contract)

GMENMVP
08-11-2010, 01:49 PM
ESPN's Chad Ford is reporting that a four-team blockbuster trade is being seriously discussed on Wednesday.
Trevor Ariza would be sent to the Hornets, Courtney Lee would join the Rockets, Darren Collison and James Posey would go to the Pacers, and Troy Murphy would go to the Nets. Collison would be the biggest fantasy winner in this scenario, as he would start at point guard for the Pacers, while Murphy would likely limit the development of Derrick Favors in New Jersey, as well as take his starting job. Stay tuned.

arkanian215
08-11-2010, 01:50 PM
Houston has made it clear that they don't care how much money they spend. They want to win and Morey has the greenlight to do w.e. he wants.

Shouldn't they have kept Andersen then instead of trading him for a 2015 2nd?

NBA-GMaster
08-11-2010, 01:51 PM
maybe the rockets will include k-mart to pacers and get granger :D

:rock: nice!!
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2e24zms

astrosmaniac
08-11-2010, 01:53 PM
this makes sense for the rockets. they are high on lee. they tried to trade up in the draft in '08 to get him but couldnt. they have no real backup SG for martin while having 3 SFs that need playing time in ariza, battier, and budinger. the only one athletic enough to plausibly play SG is budinger, but with this, battier slides into the starting lineup, and you have a reserve corp of lowry/lee/budinger. super athletic and can spread and run the floor. Lee is a worse defender than ariza, but hes still a good defender. he can spread the floor when hes got talented teammates to draw some pressure off him (see his +40% from 3 with orlando). he also can create on his own better than ariza and gets to the line fairly well. This move makes sense for the rockets in that lee fits better than ariza and they save a lot of money and flexibility in the future

EDIT: theres always the possibility that they are trying to flip lee

Hustlenomics
08-11-2010, 01:54 PM
collison and danny granger?!:speechless:

GMENMVP
08-11-2010, 01:55 PM
Cap Relief for Houston?

DCSportsIsPain
08-11-2010, 01:56 PM
I disagree. There's a possibility that Courtney Lee was third in the SG depth chart in NJ. We're pretty much trading our backup SG for a starting PF.

True, but on a one year rental for $11,968,253. Not exactly building for the future, which seems to be the plan. Would you offer Murphy a contract extension without seeing him make a big difference? I wouldn't, and I don't expect him to make that big a difference.

Mplsman
08-11-2010, 01:59 PM
That's a big trade.

D-Amazins
08-11-2010, 02:00 PM
Like the deal for the Rockets, because I never approved of the Ariza signing.

arkanian215
08-11-2010, 02:03 PM
True, but on a one year rental for $11,968,253. Not exactly building for the future, which seems to be the plan. Would you offer Murphy a contract extension without seeing him make a big difference? I wouldn't, and I don't expect him to make that big a difference.

Having 3 SG's doesn't help the growth of the one guy who does seem to have a high upside, Twill. Courtney Lee was projected to be a role player out of college and so far, he has shown he is exactly that. I think freeing up PT for Twill will benefit the team in the long run more than keeping Lee around.

KB24PG16
08-11-2010, 02:05 PM
wow i thought the the rockets had a good young core of brooks, martin, ariza, scola, and lowry off the bench with yao healthy the team could one of the best in the league

Red222
08-11-2010, 02:05 PM
SpearsNBAYahoo

Hou,NJ, NO and Indy trade done and trade call talking place, source tells Y!. Hou gets C Lee, NO gets Ariza, Indy Collison-Posey, NJ Murphy
http://twitter.com/SpearsNBAYahoo/status/20903523225:eyebrow:

Kidd>>>K-Mart
08-11-2010, 02:07 PM
Hey ark, alot of people dont know much about the Nets, not that I expect them too. By the way...wheres the Knicks fans on this one...?

saintdrew
08-11-2010, 02:08 PM
I'm a little surprised. Can't believe we gave up Darren Collison for so less.

king4day
08-11-2010, 02:08 PM
Don't get it for Houston or New Orleans.
Love it for NJ and Indy.

DCSportsIsPain
08-11-2010, 02:09 PM
Having 3 SG's doesn't help the growth of the one guy who does seem to have a high upside, Twill. Courtney Lee was projected to be a role player out of college and so far, he has shown he is exactly that. I think freeing up PT for Twill will benefit the team in the long run more than keeping Lee around.

Agreed on all counts ... the question is what will be done next spring because no one could reasonably believe Troy Murphy is a long-term solution.

king4day
08-11-2010, 02:11 PM
wow i thought the the rockets had a good young core of brooks, martin, ariza, scola, and lowry off the bench with yao healthy the team could one of the best in the league

Probably cap relief. They must have a ton of faith in Lee.

Kidd>>>K-Mart
08-11-2010, 02:12 PM
I'm a little surprised. Can't believe we gave up Darren Collison for so less.

Ariza is a great shooter and defender plus you dumped Posey's contract. To me Paul, Thornton, Ariza is a promisinf future especially once you find that skilled bigman.

Kidd>>>K-Mart
08-11-2010, 02:14 PM
Probably cap relief. They must have a ton of faith in Lee.

Cap relief was the reason this was done becuase they just signed Scola to a big deal they want to leave some breathing room.

Slimsim
08-11-2010, 02:14 PM
Hey ark, alot of people dont know much about the Nets, not that I expect them too. By the way...wheres the Knicks fans on this one...?

Should be a interesting training Camp Sean May and Murphy fighting for the starting role.

Slimsim
08-11-2010, 02:16 PM
If Chris Paul doesn't sign and extension with the Hornets they truly **** themselves in the *** on this one.

arkanian215
08-11-2010, 02:16 PM
Agreed on all counts ... the question is what will be done next spring because no one could reasonably believe Troy Murphy is a long-term solution.

Yeah I don't think Murphy figures into the long term picture at all. Not even as a backup. We'll probably go shopping for a PF again next summer.

Update:

No draft picks involved in four-way trade.http://twitter.com/SpearsNBAYahoo/status/20903609785

RelaxedFan
08-11-2010, 02:18 PM
I think everyone forgets that the Rockets have an up and comming SF in Chase Budinger. The organization is very high on Chase and with Shane expering, there could be a chance that the Rockets let Chase start next year. This wouldn't have happened with Ariza and Chase.

Rockets Depth is sick:
Brooks/Lowry
Martin/Lee
Battier/Budinger
Scola/Patterson/Hayes
Yao/Miller/Hill

Lee is a true backup SG...something we did not have.

Ariza vs Shane is a true wash on who would start, but this move:
1)Saves Houston money
2)Finds a true backup SG
3)Doesn't hurt them at depth of SF because they have Shane and Chase.

97NYer
08-11-2010, 02:20 PM
I like this for NO

Paul
Thornton
Ariza
West
Okafor

Possibly could get back into the playoffs out west

Gators123
08-11-2010, 02:22 PM
STEIN_LINE_HQ

ESPN.com sources: Hornets and Raptors have also agreed to a separate trade that will send Julian Wright to Toronto for Marco Belinelli

...

arkanian215
08-11-2010, 02:24 PM
...

damn poor Wright. I thought he'd be a beast on draft day. Him and Al Thornton.

kobebabe
08-11-2010, 02:24 PM
Kudos to Indiana and NJ if this trade go down. Honestly, I don't get why the rockets want Lee for Ariza and if chris paul jolts the Hornets in LBJ fashion when he becomes a free agent, then they have been ripped. No way i would have given up collison for Ariza. He is destined to be among the elite PGs at some point in his career, may be sooner than later.

Joshtd1
08-11-2010, 02:27 PM
Don't feel like goin through all the posts..

Hornets giving up Collison and Posey just for Ariza? Gross

YankeesNets11
08-11-2010, 02:27 PM
Great deal for the Nets, they got the PF they needed plus extra cap room next summer. This also gives more playing time for Terrence Williams who I feel will breakout this season.

AI4MVP
08-11-2010, 02:29 PM
but wait...who will be the hornets back up point guard??

this doesnt make sense to me at all. if this is going to be completeld then there has to be some pieces we dont know about. Collison is worth WAY more then just ariza.

fadedmario
08-11-2010, 02:31 PM
Good deal all around

bosoxlover12
08-11-2010, 02:34 PM
NO: Win. get a scorer for Paul
IND: Biggest win. Gets a very good PG, plus a great Defensive forward in Posey, who is a winner
NJ: small downgrade. Yes, they got rid of a 3rd string guard for a starting forward. but why would NJ want that? wouldn't they want favors to start? lol
HOU: MAJOR LOSS. Courtney Lee for their top scorer in Ariza? Yao will not be happy with this

NBA-GMaster
08-11-2010, 02:35 PM
Good moves for Pacers and Nets
Bad moves for Rockets and Hornets

Bob_at_york
08-11-2010, 02:36 PM
I like this deal for everyone. Sure Houston doesn't get enough talent back but they needed to save money. Also I think Ariza and Collison are both a little bit over-rated.

RelaxedFan
08-11-2010, 02:38 PM
NO: Win. get a scorer for Paul
IND: Biggest win. Gets a very good PG, plus a great Defensive forward in Posey, who is a winner
NJ: small downgrade. Yes, they got rid of a 3rd string guard for a starting forward. but why would NJ want that? wouldn't they want favors to start? lol
HOU: MAJOR LOSS. Courtney Lee for their top scorer in Ariza? Yao will not be happy with this

How on earth is Ariza the Rockets top scorer? Last year he was 4th in ppg on the team and he was our 1st option for scoring for 50% of the season (aka he isn't that great at scoring).

Going into this next season our SF would be the 5th option for scoring:
1) Yao 2)Brooks 3)Martin 4)Scola 5)SF

We traded our back up SF for a backup SG and save money. Remember, the Rockets still have Shane Battier, Chase Budinger, and Jarrod Jeffries for SF.

Robbw241
08-11-2010, 02:39 PM
NO: Win. get a scorer for Paul
IND: Biggest win. Gets a very good PG, plus a great Defensive forward in Posey, who is a winner
NJ: small downgrade. Yes, they got rid of a 3rd string guard for a starting forward. but why would NJ want that? wouldn't they want favors to start? lol
HOU: MAJOR LOSS. Courtney Lee for their top scorer in Ariza? Yao will not be happy with this

He is nowhere near ready. He'd get killed.

tredigs
08-11-2010, 02:42 PM
i actually like the trade for all the teams involved except for houston. ariza for courtney lee is a downgrade.

Unless Ariza changes the way he plays in that offense (accepts a much lesser role), then I HATE him on that team - besides that, it offers the Rockets salary cap space - which is why I think they're more willing to pull the trigger.

I'm a fan of this move for all teams, other than the Hornets if they do indeed lose Cp3 (but this move may be a way for them to tell him, "we're building for you, please stay!"). Great move for New Jersey to be able to allow Favors to come off the bench, he's nowhere near NBA ready.

SNYmets86
08-11-2010, 02:42 PM
good move for all teams they all have something they been missin pg,sg,sf,pf

J-Relo
08-11-2010, 02:43 PM
NO: Win. get a scorer for Paul
IND: Biggest win. Gets a very good PG, plus a great Defensive forward in Posey, who is a winner
NJ: small downgrade. Yes, they got rid of a 3rd string guard for a starting forward. but why would NJ want that? wouldn't they want favors to start? lol
HOU: MAJOR LOSS. Courtney Lee for their top scorer in Ariza? Yao will not be happy with this

actually only Houston are losing in this trade, maybe they are getting something else too, at least a pick or two...

El Hombre#5
08-11-2010, 02:43 PM
I hope the deal goes through.
I'm a big fan of Collison and him and Granger would form a nice 1-2 to build around.

Slimsim
08-11-2010, 02:44 PM
NO: Win. get a scorer for Paul
IND: Biggest win. Gets a very good PG, plus a great Defensive forward in Posey, who is a winner
NJ: small downgrade. Yes, they got rid of a 3rd string guard for a starting forward. but why would NJ want that? wouldn't they want favors to start? lol
HOU: MAJOR LOSS. Courtney Lee for their top scorer in Ariza? Yao will not be happy with this

I don't think Paul is to thrilled with Having Ariza as his Pippen. Beside Wasn't it rumor a Couple of weeks back that Paul Wanted out of NO. This is very risky.

Hoston Didn't really need Ariza and getting lee is good insurance for injury prone Kevin Martin.

Gators123
08-11-2010, 02:47 PM
Who is the backup PG for NO?

arkanian215
08-11-2010, 02:47 PM
NO: Win. get a scorer for Paul
IND: Biggest win. Gets a very good PG, plus a great Defensive forward in Posey, who is a winner
NJ: small downgrade. Yes, they got rid of a 3rd string guard for a starting forward. but why would NJ want that? wouldn't they want favors to start? lol
HOU: MAJOR LOSS. Courtney Lee for their top scorer in Ariza? Yao will not be happy with this

Favors will get his minutes. He doesn't have to start.

PHX2daDEATH
08-11-2010, 02:47 PM
Pacers might just snag a playoff spot after this, I dont think they are done yet.. Dunleavy's gotta be next to go..
I dont know what the Rockets were thinking, they better hope Yao plays the full season or its no playoffs for them..

Hawkeye15
08-11-2010, 02:51 PM
I think NO can do better for Collision, but getting a ring winner who averages high teens and is in his prime should help Paul for now. The Rockets are basically admitting to a mistake and dumping salary. THe other teams get needs
Not bad all the way around

Slimsim
08-11-2010, 02:52 PM
Pacers might just snag a playoff spot after this, I dont think they are done yet.. Dunleavy's gotta be next to go..
I dont know what the Rockets were thinking, they better hope Yao plays the full season or its no playoffs for them..

if Granger can stay healthy and Collson can get the most out of Hibbert They are going to be in the race for the playoff spot along with the Nets, Knicks, Wizards and possibly Philly.

bkmikeyy
08-11-2010, 02:53 PM
NO confuses me, first they are broke then they make stupid signings or trades that put them deeper in debt.
First the Chandler for Okafor trade that has failed miserably.
Now they gave up the better talent that is making around 1 million, for a very overrated (like okafor) player on a pretty big contract.

Hawkeye15
08-11-2010, 02:53 PM
Unless Ariza changes the way he plays in that offense (accepts a much lesser role), then I HATE him on that team - besides that, it offers the Rockets salary cap space - which is why I think they're more willing to pull the trigger.

I'm a fan of this move for all teams, other than the Hornets if they do indeed lose Cp3 (but this move may be a way for them to tell him, "we're building for you, please stay!"). Great move for New Jersey to be able to allow Favors to come off the bench, he's nowhere near NBA ready.

Does it offer the Rockets cap space? I don't think so, I think it simply takes away the luxury hit. They made a mistake signing Ariza to that deal, he was not good with the Rockets. Martin and Yao will replace his scoring easily, and they have plenty of offense and defense to not miss him a bit. Ariza is a terrific 4th option, but when asked to be important on offense, no bueno

JerseysFinest
08-11-2010, 02:55 PM
pretty good for all sides. indy gets a great young pg, nj gets a nice pf, n.o. gets ariza, houston gets a nice defensive shooting guard

Big Quett
08-11-2010, 02:56 PM
NO: Win. get a scorer for Paul
IND: Biggest win. Gets a very good PG, plus a great Defensive forward in Posey, who is a winner
NJ: small downgrade. Yes, they got rid of a 3rd string guard for a starting forward. but why would NJ want that? wouldn't they want favors to start? lol
HOU: MAJOR LOSS. Courtney Lee for their top scorer in Ariza? Yao will not be happy with this

Top scorer? I mean really? He was forth on the team and even 5th if you add what Landry did while he was there. And he was pretty bad at that.

39% shooting 33% from beyond the arc and 65% from the stripe? I always thought Trevor was underrated with the Knicks, Magic, and Lakers. But now i see why ALL of them didnt think he was good enough to keep him around. If he knew how to play his role he would be ok. But he thinks he is a star.

I cant see this move making Cp3 feel that much better about staying. They traded there 2nd best trade asset for Ariza? WOW!!!!!

jacquewho?
08-11-2010, 03:01 PM
love love love this deal for my pacers. so happy Bird got something done this off-season. it won't make us legit contenders, but now there's no way you can't put us into the playoff picture for a 5-6 seed...

Slimsim
08-11-2010, 03:10 PM
love love love this deal for my pacers. so happy Bird got something done this off-season. it won't make us legit contenders, but now there's no way you can't put us into the playoff picture for a 5-6 seed...

Slow down buddy they can makes the 8th or 7th seed but 1-6 is already locked.

Vikes_Fan04
08-11-2010, 03:20 PM
CP3 alley oops to Ariza!

wileyisTOFU
08-11-2010, 03:23 PM
More playing time for Air Bud and Battier, plus C. Lee contract is crazy good. lose Ariza contract ( clears up the playing time issues for SF ) and Courtney Lee isn't a scrub.

Raidaz4Life
08-11-2010, 03:25 PM
What a horrible move by the hornets. Ariza's 15 ppg looks nice at first but 39% from the field, 33 from three, and 65 from the line shows that he is nothing more than an offensive black hole. Those are terrible numbers for a 6'8 slasher. The fact that anyone thinks this is a good move for NO is completely high right now including apparently the NO FO. I loved Ariza as a role player but there is no way he will make a team like NO any better. People keep saying they got cap relief from Posey... yeah his 6 mil a year is so much more relief when taking on Trevor's poor contract.... not to mention giving up a young stud PG in Collison whose efficiency was off the charts... The Pacers absolutely robbed this trade clean and the Hornets made a move out of complete desperation that is going to completely screw the organization once CP3 decided to high tail it out of there.

tredigs
08-11-2010, 03:26 PM
Does it offer the Rockets cap space? I don't think so, I think it simply takes away the luxury hit. They made a mistake signing Ariza to that deal, he was not good with the Rockets. Martin and Yao will replace his scoring easily, and they have plenty of offense and defense to not miss him a bit. Ariza is a terrific 4th option, but when asked to be important on offense, no bueno

Oh were they over? If so then that's too bad, but like you said, he's not someone you want taking close to the 15 shots a game that he was jacking up last season. Unfortunately for the Hornets, now they'll probably be dealing with that burden - they are looking for scorers after all.

I like the Nets and I'm a fan of this trade for them more than any other team. It will get more playing time out of one of the great NBA shooters in Morrow (even if he does lack in other areas, he'll be important for them), and the all-important solid pickup at the 4 to help bring Favors along smoothly. That team has a legitimate shot at the 8 seed in the East with this deal (Healthy Harris, huge improvements at the 4 - lacked perimeter shooters and now have the top in the league at it - Brook Lopez going into the all important 3rd year). Definitely my dark-horse playoff team now.

This deal's official btw, in case that wasn't known yet: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5455472

edit: I can understand the Pacers fans excitement about picking up Collison, but how do you feel about losing Troy? Who's your starting PF now, Hansborough???

Chronz
08-11-2010, 03:27 PM
Is Lee a expiring? Maybe houston finally realized what Phil knew, Ariza is a role player.

And they regret signing that contact. Plus we know K-Mart will miss at least 30 games some one has to step up for him. And Rockets aren't that deep at SG.
Nope, Houston has always known what it had. We are talking about one of the best GM's in the biz who with Pritchard gone, is hands down the best stats GM in the game.


Ariza was overpaid role player battier is better Sf than him good for rockets they got rid of his salary and got some talent in return
Proof?


Houston has made it clear that they don't care how much money they spend. They want to win and Morey has the greenlight to do w.e. he wants.
Having the money to spend doesnt mean you have to be irresponsible.


I think NO can do better for Collision, but getting a ring winner who averages high teens and is in his prime should help Paul for now. The Rockets are basically admitting to a mistake and dumping salary. THe other teams get needs
Not bad all the way around
What mistake?


this makes sense for the rockets. they are high on lee. they tried to trade up in the draft in '08 to get him but couldnt. they have no real backup SG for martin while having 3 SFs that need playing time in ariza, battier, and budinger. the only one athletic enough to plausibly play SG is budinger, but with this, battier slides into the starting lineup, and you have a reserve corp of lowry/lee/budinger. super athletic and can spread and run the floor. Lee is a worse defender than ariza, but hes still a good defender. he can spread the floor when hes got talented teammates to draw some pressure off him (see his +40% from 3 with orlando). he also can create on his own better than ariza and gets to the line fairly well. This move makes sense for the rockets in that lee fits better than ariza and they save a lot of money and flexibility in the future

EDIT: theres always the possibility that they are trying to flip lee
Lee is not a better fit, well unless by that you mean he fits better into Morey's moneyball scheme, but if you mean on the court there is no question Ariza would produce better results.

And I disagree with your assessment of Budinger and Ariza. The way I see it, Budinger has the technique and skill game down to play the 2 but lacks the overall athletic ability compared to Ariza who has the size and hops but lacks the ball handling to play the 2 on his own.

Either way I like the move and Lee can replace most of what Ariza provided at a reasonable price and they get to keep guys at more important positions.




39% shooting 33% from beyond the arc and 65% from the stripe? I always thought Trevor was underrated with the Knicks, Magic, and Lakers. But now i see why ALL of them didnt think he was good enough to keep him around. If he knew how to play his role he would be ok. But he thinks he is a star.

I cant see this move making Cp3 feel that much better about staying. They traded there 2nd best trade asset for Ariza? WOW!!!!!
Sounds like you didnt follow the Rockets at all.



Going into this next season our SF would be the 5th option for scoring:
1) Yao 2)Brooks 3)Martin 4)Scola 5)SF

We traded our back up SF for a backup SG and save money. Remember, the Rockets still have Shane Battier, Chase Budinger, and Jarrod Jeffries for SF.
The problem is, the lower Ariza is on the offensive pecking order, the greater of an impact he has. So pointing out that hed be the 5th option doesnt really help your case.

Lloyd Christmas
08-11-2010, 03:27 PM
I love this trade. Makes the West weaker. The Warriors chances of making the playoffs just went from 5% to 7%. Yyyyyeeeeeaaaaa-yyyyyyaaaaaaaa (Lil' John voice)

Big Quett
08-11-2010, 03:28 PM
love love love this deal for my pacers. so happy Bird got something done this off-season. it won't make us legit contenders, but now there's no way you can't put us into the playoff picture for a 5-6 seed...

Dude i was with you until this. You gained a pg but now you guys have no starting pf with experience. And DC doesnt make you better than the Heat, Magic, Celtics, Bulls, Hawks, or Bucks. So 7 or 8 is best case

bkmikeyy
08-11-2010, 03:29 PM
east continues to slowly even playing field with west. The top is already arguably better in the east and this trade was clearly won by the middle of the pack east teams.

arkanian215
08-11-2010, 03:30 PM
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=237gyo5

According to ESPN, it doesn't affect wins. LOL!

Gators123
08-11-2010, 03:32 PM
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=237gyo5

According to ESPN, it doesn't affect wins. LOL!

lol

Baller1
08-11-2010, 03:33 PM
Doesn't seem to have much of a point to this trade, IMO.

gbrl
08-11-2010, 03:35 PM
^ pacers get their starting pg of the future thats good enough of a point for me

bkmikeyy
08-11-2010, 03:39 PM
pacers got an absolute steal in this trade. They were going to let Murphy walk next summer anyways, now they got a cheap PG with All Star potential for him.

gbrl
08-11-2010, 03:41 PM
theres value in big expirings

thekmp211
08-11-2010, 03:44 PM
collison will fit in great with the pacers. definitely a better team now.

don't sleep on ariza in NO. they need guys with pulses and now that he can be a third or fourth option again i think he will have success.

masalex1205
08-11-2010, 03:46 PM
Nola gets crapped on, great trade for Indiana

Hype
08-11-2010, 03:46 PM
K, this is kind of a schwagg for schwagg deal. None of these fools have potential to be all-stars, quit kidding yourself about Collison.

jacquewho?
08-11-2010, 03:48 PM
Slow down buddy they can makes the 8th or 7th seed but 1-6 is already locked.



[/B]
Dude i was with you until this. You gained a pg but now you guys have no starting pf with experience. And DC doesnt make you better than the Heat, Magic, Celtics, Bulls, Hawks, or Bucks. So 7 or 8 is best case

Agreed to some extent, but the fact that we finally have a legit PG brings our possibility up of getting a 6 seed (at best). You couldn't say that when we had TJ Ford, Earl Watson, or Jarrett Jack running the show.

gbrl
08-11-2010, 03:49 PM
^ if he continues to average 18 and 9 as a starter and improve off that, all star appearances will come

Chronz
08-11-2010, 03:55 PM
What a horrible move by the hornets. Ariza's 15 ppg looks nice at first but 39% from the field, 33 from three, and 65 from the line shows that he is nothing more than an offensive black hole. Those are terrible numbers for a 6'8 slasher. The fact that anyone thinks this is a good move for NO is completely high right now including apparently the NO FO. I loved Ariza as a role player but there is no way he will make a team like NO any better. People keep saying they got cap relief from Posey... yeah his 6 mil a year is so much more relief when taking on Trevor's poor contract.... not to mention giving up a young stud PG in Collison whose efficiency was off the charts... The Pacers absolutely robbed this trade clean and the Hornets made a move out of complete desperation that is going to completely screw the organization once CP3 decided to high tail it out of there.
Just a tip, your using a methodology thats completely outdated. Thats probably where most of your confusion stems from. GM's look at performance in a variety of roles and play sets. Ariza is a great value for his contract based on his defense alone., the fact that hes a championship caliber role player makes it a no brainer.

Chronz
08-11-2010, 03:56 PM
^ pacers get their starting pg of the future thats good enough of a point for me
Havent they said that like every other off-season since Mark Jackson left them?

Big Quett
08-11-2010, 04:02 PM
Agreed to some extent, but the fact that we finally have a legit PG brings our possibility up of getting a 6 seed (at best). You couldn't say that when we had TJ Ford, Earl Watson, or Jarrett Jack running the show.

I think the Pacers are the only winners in this deal because they got the only player with potential to be more than a regular NBA IMO. I still think Lee is just a regular player nothing special just solid. But #7 is probably the best you can still realistically get. Maybe no higher than 8 because of Bobcats.


And there is no point of having Posey when you have Granger and drafted wings such as Lance and Paul.

Bob_at_york
08-11-2010, 04:12 PM
And there is no point of having Posey when you have Granger and drafted wings such as Lance and Paul.
Don't forget about Dunleavy, D. Jones and Rush.

smith&wesson
08-11-2010, 04:14 PM
Doubt this trade happens. . why would houston want to give up ariza to get lee ? just salary cap releif ? doesnt kevin martin play courtney lee's position at the 2 ?

i think the pacers would benifit the most from this trade

collison
dontay jones
danny granger
??
roy hibbert.

thats a very young and athletic group.

tredigs
08-11-2010, 04:18 PM
Just a tip, your using a methodology thats completely outdated. Thats probably where most of your confusion stems from. GM's look at performance in a variety of roles and play sets. Ariza is a great value for his contract based on his defense alone., the fact that hes a championship caliber role player makes it a no brainer.

Role player, yes. Which makes it peculiar that they'd make this move this season, with the return of Yao and their outside chances of being a contender. If they felt strongly about the decision initially, why would they have bailed on it this season when he could have been used closer to his true impact role? Maybe they realize Yao will not be ready, and are cutting there losses/planning for the future.

As for the Hornets, it may help them a bit initially, but Ariza's going to have too big of a role in their offense to actually help that team into (or at least during) the playoffs. He definitely has a bell curve in his production to USG% ratio, and I'd think that the N.O.'s system will have him on the wrong side (downside) of that curve.

IversonIsKrazy
08-11-2010, 04:20 PM
Pacers get their need at PG, and Hornets would get a solid young SF. But why would Rockets do this, I don't understand? They have Kevin Martin at SG, so why would the get rid of Ariza, to get a young SG in Lee?? And why would Nets do this, why would they give up a solid young SG in Lee, for a guy who's going to be there back-up C (Murphy). Is this offical??

Chronz
08-11-2010, 04:22 PM
Doubt this trade happens. . why would houston want to give up ariza to get lee ? just salary cap releif ? doesnt kevin martin play courtney lee's position at the 2 ?


Because it saves them Millions for a player of similar value who plays a position of need.

Put it this way, you have Battier, Ariza and Budinger even JJ at the 3 but no true backup at the 2. Why not save the money when the dropoff would be minimized by Budinger and Lee getting PT.

Chronz
08-11-2010, 05:00 PM
Role player, yes. Which makes it peculiar that they'd make this move this season, with the return of Yao and their outside chances of being a contender. If they felt strongly about the decision initially, why would they have bailed on it this season when he could have been used closer to his true impact role? Maybe they realize Yao will not be ready, and are cutting there losses/planning for the future.
Interesting way to look at it, I just think that given Brads addition and extensions given to players of more pressing concern/value, Ariza wasnt worth it anymore. Not from the perspective that hes making too much money, just that hes making too much for a team well into the lux threshold. Its not like they gave him up for nothing, they got a cheaper version of him at a position of need.


As for the Hornets, it may help them a bit initially, but Ariza's going to have too big of a role in their offense to actually help that team into (or at least during) the playoffs. He definitely has a bell curve in his production to USG% ratio, and I'd think that the N.O.'s system will have him on the wrong side (downside) of that curve.
We'll have to wait and see on that one considering we have no idea what kind of offense they plan on running. One things for sure we both agree that Ariza cannot help a team by playing the way he did last year. A process both sides admitted was only meant to develop and expand his game. Still having a PG like CP3 and Thornton being the go to gunner, I dont see him having to take on as many plays himself. In Houston he basically inherited Tmac's role as the go-to-guy whenever a play had broken down. In NO he would inherit Posey's finishing role.

astrosmaniac
08-11-2010, 05:00 PM
Because it saves them Millions for a player of similar value who plays a position of need.

Put it this way, you have Battier, Ariza and Budinger even JJ at the 3 but no true backup at the 2. Why not save the money when the dropoff would be minimized by Budinger and Lee getting PT.

exactly

Gators123
08-11-2010, 05:01 PM
Doubt this trade happens. . why would houston want to give up ariza to get lee ? just salary cap releif ? doesnt kevin martin play courtney lee's position at the 2 ?

i think the pacers would benifit the most from this trade

collison
dontay jones
danny granger
??
roy hibbert.

thats a very young and athletic group.

I think its already a done deal.

AsfanSince99
08-11-2010, 05:14 PM
So the Hornets trade Collison and all they get back is Ariza? Indiana got a steal there..

The Rockets needed to dump salary. Ariza had to go esp since they spent so much re-signing Scola, Lowry, and Miller.

ManningToTyree
08-11-2010, 05:17 PM
i actually like the trade for all the teams involved except for houston. ariza for courtney lee is a downgrade.

x2 and the pacers stole Collison. NO benefited from this cuz they filled a need by moving depth. Very interesting deal for all parties

20GoodTimes20
08-11-2010, 05:23 PM
Very curious why people hate this deal for the rockets. It sort of makes sense if you think they want to play Shane 35+ minutes a night at the 3. Martin is very injury prone, so upgrading the back up SG spot is probably a good idea. He's much more likely to be out then Shane is, so back up SG takes precedence. And Jared Jeffries can play the 3. He's useless on offense no matter where he plays, but he is capable of defending at the 3 spot.

Finally someone who chimes in with knowledge of how the NBA works. Also, a players value can change depending on who his supporting cast is. Lee will be a better player with the Rockets team around him. This is a good deal for the Rockets, financially as well.

Red222
08-11-2010, 05:24 PM
Rockets also got $6 million trade exception in four way trade, Y! Sports has learned. about 1 hour ago via Twitter for BlackBerry®
http://twitter.com/SpearsNBAYahoo/status/20913821559:eyebrow:

roshan3ai
08-11-2010, 05:26 PM
Good trade for everyone except the Rockets.

astrosmaniac
08-11-2010, 05:42 PM
now it makes even more sense that we get a 6 mil TE. that plus jeffries 6 mil expiring, and possibly battier's 7 mil expiring and all our young talent. even more assets

netsgiantsyanks
08-11-2010, 05:44 PM
it fills the nets needs for a pf and it rids the logjam at the 2

SouthSideRookie
08-11-2010, 05:44 PM
now it makes even more sense that we get a 6 mil TE. that plus jeffries 6 mil expiring, and possibly battier's 7 mil expiring and all our young talent. even more assets

Exactly, this makes alot more sense now.

arkanian215
08-11-2010, 06:10 PM
Why they did it: Breaking down the four-team trade


Posted Aug 11 2010 6:04PM

Wednesday's four-team trade between Houston, Indiana, New Jersey and New Orleans featured the Hornets' young point guard, Darren Collison, going to Indiana, and the Rockets sending forward Trevor Ariza to New Orleans. The Rockets also got guard Courtney Lee from the Nets, while the Nets acquired forward Troy Murphy from Indiana. Indiana took on veteran forward James Posey from New Orleans to complete the deal.

But this was not a simple deal between four non-playoff teams. Each team had specific needs and/or concerns to meet by making the deal happen, and bigger names and goals to try and impress. Chris Paul and Carmelo Anthony leap to mind.

And the deal could have been even larger.

A league source says the Charlotte Bobcats wanted to get involved as well, using the non-guaranteed contract of center Erick Dampier to try and get a point guard. Under one scenario, Dampier would have gone to Indiana, the team that originally drafted him in 1996, with T.J. Ford going to Toronto and the Raptors sending guard Jose Calderon to Charlotte. (The Raptors had agreed to send Calderon to the Bobcats earlier this summer in a deal that would have sent center Tyson Chandler to Toronto, but the deal was scotched at the last minute by Charlotte owner Michael Jordan.)

But in the end the four existing teams decided to move ahead with the trade. They all had their reasons:

HOUSTON: Keep it under your tax.

The Rockets went all out this summer to retain their assets, spending $47 million to keep starting power forward Luis Scola and matching Cleveland's $23.5 million offer sheet to Kyle Lowry, their third guard. And Houston also had to get insurance in case Yao Ming is slow to recover from his foot injury by giving $15 million to Brad Miller. That made them a big-time luxury tax payer now and the future was even bleaker for owner Leslie Alexander's wallet, with Yao and Aaron Brooks due large paydays in the next two years.

And GM Daryl Morey has been in cost-cutting mode ever since. He gave away center David Andersen to Toronto last month for a draft pick and now jettisons the remaining four years and $28 million of Ariza's contract to New Orleans. The Rockets are still over the luxury tax threshold for next season ($70.3 million), but not by nearly as much. Morey could get under if he wanted by dealing Shane Battier, entering the last year of his deal, for a pick. But Morey's stat-based love for Battier's all-around game has been well-documented. The Rockets, I'm told, are OK with paying some tax next season and thought Ariza's minutes would get cut next season with second-year forward Chase Budinger's emergence. And the Rockets have been after Lee, the rising third-year guard, ever since he came out of Western Kentucky in 2008. He will see plenty of time in the Rockets' guard rotation behind Kevin Martin or, perhaps, alongside him at times.

INDIANA: Missing the point entirely.

Sometimes the best trade is the one you didn't make. The Pacers, desperate for a point guard for more than a year, were on the verge of getting D.J. Augustin from Charlotte last February at the trade deadline for Ford and Brandon Rush, but the deal fell through. Instead, a few months later, they cashed in big time, getting Collison, one of the best young points in the league. With Paul entrenched in New Orleans it was only a matter of where Collison would go, and the Pacers figured out a way to get him. Now, Indiana has its point guard of the future on his rookie contract, and essentially traded Murphy's $11.9 million salary for next season in exchange for the $13.3 million over two years due to Posey. That second year of Posey's deal cuts a little into the cap room Indiana was planning to use next summer to go after free agents, but it's a small price to pay to solidify the point for a decade.

Indiana isn't out of the woods yet; Tyler Hansbrough's vertigo is still a concern, and the Pacers have to hope they didn't reach on first-round pick Paul George. But they have a solid nucleus to build around now with Collison, Danny Granger and Roy Hibbert, and at least the promise of being able to make an impactful trade next summer with the cap room and expiring contracts they still have available.

NEW JERSEY: Have you ever been 'Melo?

The Nets take on Murphy as a one-year rental, which allows them to bring along first-round pick Derrick Favors more slowly instead of throwing him in as a starter on opening night. And the emergence of second-year shooting guard Terrence Williams made Lee expendable. (Not to mention that Lee was desperate to return to a playoff team after spending his rookie season starting for Orlando and making the Finals.) Murphy is from New Jersey "and looking forward to playing with Avery" Johnson, Murphy's agent, Dan Fegan, said Wednesday.

But make no mistake: this deal was done with Anthony in mind. The Nets will have around $20 million in cap room next summer when Murphy comes off the books, making them just as plausible a destination for Anthony as the Knicks if Anthony decides not sign the $65 million extension from Denver that's been sitting there for a month. And New Jersey still has a lot of assets -- guard Devin Harris, the 2012 first-round pick it has from Golden State, newly signed guard Anthony Morrow, heck, maybe even Favors -- it can offer in a package to New Orleans for Paul, whom it has been trying to get as well. Not to mention the largesse of Mikhail Prokhorov's wallet, which can write out $3 million checks to other teams for years to come.

Whichever way he decides to go, new general manager Billy King now has great flexibility going forward, and an opportunity to do next summer what New Jersey didn't get done this summer -- sign or trade for a superstar.

NEW ORLEANS: CP are ya wit' me?

Nothing will happen in the Big Easy basketball-wise in the next 24 months that doesn't center around Paul, who made his desire to be traded public this summer. A summit meeting last month between Paul and the team's new brass -- team president Hugh Weber, new general manager Dell Demps and new head coach Monty Williams -- produced plaudits and sound bites but didn't do much to change the equation. So the Hornets still have to try and change Paul's mind. Ariza isn't by himself a game-changer, but he is the kind of young (25), athletic frontcourt player Paul hasn't played with in a while. With Peja Stojakovic finally in the last year of his deal, New Orleans has a replacement in Ariza, who won a ring two years ago with the Lakers and will likely be a much better fit with Paul than he would have been spotting up off of Yao in Houston next season.

Getting rid of Posey's contract helps New Orleans for next summer as well. Even with Emeka Okafor's contract (four years and $53.1 million remaining) adversely impacting the team's cap room, the Hornets should still get a few million under the cap in 2011 now that Posey is gone and they don't have to re-sign Julian Wright -- sent to Toronto on Wednesday in a separate deal for Marco Bellinelli -- and could clear several million more if they trade David West, who has two years (including an early termination option after this season) left. Washington, for one, had a great interest in West before re-signing small forward Josh Howard late last month, but the Hornets weren't interested. There are lots of other teams that might have assets New Orleans is more intrigued by.

The Hornets have a lot of work to do. But they're getting much younger, with rookies Quincy Pondexter and Craig Brackins joining Ariza, the 24-year-old Bellinelli and second-year guard Marcus Thornton in the rotation alongside Paul, West and Okafor. Ariza is a start, but only a start.http://www.nba.com/2010/news/features/david_aldridge/08/11/trade/?ls=iref:nbahpt1

JerseysFinest
08-11-2010, 06:15 PM
i don't know why people are saying this was bad for the rockets. the reason lee didn't play well in nj was because he had to adjust from playing on a team that only required him to play defense and hit the open j to a team where he was asked to do a lot more than that. He wasn't expecting that, and it showed in his play. During the end of last season he began to show promise. Houston is a good place for him because he can go back to doing what he was told to do in Orlando, and he is only 24 years old. Wish him the best of luck, wish he could of stayed in Jersey

fredv
08-11-2010, 06:24 PM
Great deal for the Rockets!

Ariza is overhyped, and he made Adelman promise him that if he came to Houston, he would be a starter. This was a promise that Adelman wasn't going to be able to hold, with Shane Battier being a better defender and a veteran for this team.

If you look at Ariza's stats, his shooting % are horrible, and he is absolutely not efficient. He got alot of hype because of his run with the Lakers, but he was terribly dissapointing this season and wasn't able to stick with the Rockets system unfortunately.
The rise of Chase Budinger certainly didn't help his case, some of which thought he should have started infront of Ariza..

I think this is Rafer Alston-Kyle Lowry trade part 2. At first I was like "Wtf!? This is our starting PG for a 3rd string PG!", then it turned out that Lowry is indeed better than Alston.

The Rockets have been following Lee for years, and though I have never seen the kid play, I'm excited about his arrival. He can be a fine rotational player.

Chronz
08-11-2010, 06:24 PM
One thing I dont get is why are people saying Lee played bad in NJ? What was so different about his play?

Chronz
08-11-2010, 06:27 PM
Great deal for the Rockets!

Ariza is overhyped, and he made Adelman promise him that if he came to Houston, he would be a starter. This was a promise that Adelman wasn't going to be able to hold, with Shane Battier being a better defender and a veteran for this team.

If you look at Ariza's stats, his shooting % are horrible, and he is absolutely not efficient. He got alot of hype because of his run with the Lakers, but he was terribly dissapointing this season and wasn't able to stick with the Rockets system unfortunately.
The rise of Chase Budinger certainly didn't help his case, some of which thought he should have started infront of Ariza..

I think this is Rafer Alston-Kyle Lowry trade part 2. At first I was like "Wtf!? This is our starting PG for a 3rd string PG!", then it turned out that Lowry is indeed better than Alston.

The Rockets have been following Lee for years, and though I have never seen the kid play, I'm excited about his arrival. He can be a fine rotational player.
You seriously thought Rafer was the better player? WOW that kind of takes away from everything you just said, I wouldve kept that part a secret man. Besides thats not what GM's think of Ariza (Morey included)

netsgiantsyanks
08-11-2010, 06:43 PM
One thing I dont get is why are people saying Lee played bad in NJ? What was so different about his play?

he shot horribly the first half of the season. plus, he was aked to do alot more than in orlando. since he's probably going to be a bench player in houston, he'll do much better.

runforrestrunx9
08-11-2010, 06:47 PM
pacers and nets raped in this deal...

Gators123
08-11-2010, 06:56 PM
It's not as bad for the Rockets as some people make it out to be.

arkanian215
08-11-2010, 07:05 PM
One thing I dont get is why are people saying Lee played bad in NJ? What was so different about his play?

Ask Rique.

netsgiantsyanks
08-11-2010, 07:06 PM
Ask Rique.

:laugh:

netsgiantsyanks
08-11-2010, 07:11 PM
Ask Rique.

double post

LA_Raiders
08-11-2010, 07:36 PM
hou ****ed up IMO...

Raidaz4Life
08-11-2010, 08:21 PM
Just a tip, your using a methodology thats completely outdated. Thats probably where most of your confusion stems from. GM's look at performance in a variety of roles and play sets.

Outdated? I suppose you are referring to my use of conventional over advanced statistics. There is absolutely no confusion. You make it seem like advanced statistics more often than not tell a completely different story when they do not. They simply go into detail on what conventional statistics already state. Ariza is a poor shooter period. And even his ability as a slasher is overrated. Ariza is a great role player but New Orleans doesn't need a good role player. At least not at the price they paid.

Ariza is nothing more than a big name at this point in time due to his stint with the Lakers. He is not a great player that will put any team over the top, ask the Rockets.


Ariza is a great value for his contract based on his defense alone.

Yes Ariza is a good defender but he is not enough of an upgrade over Posey on the defensive end to warrant giving up a talent like Darren Collison.



the fact that hes a championship caliber role player makes it a no brainer

No because last time I checked Ariza is A.) not going to be in a role player role and B.) not on a championship team

Wizard of O's
08-12-2010, 10:01 AM
What do the Rockets get out of this?

A guy who averaged 12 pts a game last year (in less minutes than Ariza played) , is a strong defender and a 40% 3pt shooter to come off the bench. 5 million in cap relief and a 6.3 million TPE.
Plus he's younger and was a starter on a finals team as well.

I love it. Ariza was getting paid too much for the production he was putting up and he just never fit well playing with Aaron Brooks.

JordansBulls
08-12-2010, 01:28 PM
hou ****ed up IMO...

I agree. I think Ariza is a much better player than Lee.

JOSKOMANG4
08-12-2010, 04:20 PM
Nets LIneup:

C: Brook Lopez/Johan Petro/Brian Zoubek
PF: Troy Murphy/Derrick Favors/Sean May
SF: Travis OUtlaw/Damion James/Kris Humphries
SG: Terrence Williams/Anthony Morrow/Quinton Ross
PG: Devin Harris/Jordan Farmar/Ben Uzoh

Rockets:

C: Yao Ming/Brad Miller/Chuck Hayes
PF: Luis Scola/Patrick Patterson/Jordan Hill
SF: Shane Battier/Jared Jeffries/Chase Budinger
SG: Kevin Martin/Courtney Lee/Jermaine Taylor
PG: Aaron Brooks/Kyle Lowry

Hornets:

C: Emeka Okafor/Aaron Gray
PF: David West/Darius Songaila/Craig Brackins
SF: Trevor Ariza/Peja Stojakovic
SG: Marcus Thornton/Quincy Pondexter/Marco Belinelli
PG: Chris Paul

Pacers:

C: Roy Hibbert/Jeff Foster/Solomon Jones/Magnum Rolle
PF: Tyler Hansbrough/Mike Dunleavy/Josh McRoberts
SF: Danny Granger/James Posey/Paul George
SG: Brandon Rush/Dahntay Jones/Lance Stephenson
PG: Darren Collison/T.J. Ford/A.J. Price

Mplsman
08-12-2010, 04:25 PM
Great additions for the pacers and nets.

Verbal Christ
08-12-2010, 05:52 PM
the rockets have 2 PG's that are 6 foot tall on a good day, if the matchup calls for it lee can slide over and defend the 1 ... before the trade the rockets didnt have anyone who could do that, it opens up more playing time for the young developing guys on the team, and saves a bunch of money. whats funny to me is how last year when the rockets 'overpaid' for ariza everyone was bashing the signing ... now that he is traded - everyone is bashing the trade. houston is damned if they do, damned if they dont on PSD, humourous.

dRa1niNg_ 3s
08-12-2010, 06:21 PM
the rockets have 2 PG's that are 6 foot tall on a good day, if the matchup calls for it lee can slide over and defend the 1 ... before the trade the rockets didnt have anyone who could do that, it opens up more playing time for the young developing guys on the team, and saves a bunch of money. whats funny to me is how last year when the rockets 'overpaid' for ariza everyone was bashing the signing ... now that he is traded - everyone is bashing the trade. houston is damned if they do, damned if they dont on PSD, humourous.

Nicely put ^^..

If the Rockets do start suffering from the 3 spot perspective, they can always acquire a SF. I woudnt mind them trading for Tayshaun Prince, give them Shane Battier and a draft pick.

Brooks
Martin
Prince
Scola
Yao

That is a really good starting 5. I love the trade for Lee, at first Ariza looked dissapointing, but when they acquired Martin he started to fluorish. Ariza was athletic and played good defense but the Rockets did need help at the 2 spot and now they are really deep at that spot!! Plus Lee went to the finals with the Magic so he shoudnt feel pressured come playoff time..

Verbal Christ
08-12-2010, 06:45 PM
Nicely put ^^..

If the Rockets do start suffering from the 3 spot perspective, they can always acquire a SF. I woudnt mind them trading for Tayshaun Prince, give them Shane Battier and a draft pick.

Brooks
Martin
Prince
Scola
Yao

That is a really good starting 5. I love the trade for Lee, at first Ariza looked dissapointing, but when they acquired Martin he started to fluorish. Ariza was athletic and played good defense but the Rockets did need help at the 2 spot and now they are really deep at that spot!! Plus Lee went to the finals with the Magic so he shoudnt feel pressured come playoff time..

i wouldnt ship battier, he's invaluable to a team IMO, and why pick up another 3 when chase budinger is starting to emerge? i think with lee's signing Aaron Brooks may hit the market next since Kyle Lowry wouldnt really miss a beat on offense and is unquestionably better defensively, and the newly acquired Lee can also play the point. I would prefer to acquire a significant upgrade at the 5 myself since after this year that seems to be the position with the most doubt.

dRa1niNg_ 3s
08-12-2010, 07:10 PM
i wouldnt ship battier, he's invaluable to a team IMO, and why pick up another 3 when chase budinger is starting to emerge? i think with lee's signing Aaron Brooks may hit the market next since Kyle Lowry wouldnt really miss a beat on offense and is unquestionably better defensively, and the newly acquired Lee can also play the point. I would prefer to acquire a significant upgrade at the 5 myself since after this year that seems to be the position with the most doubt.

Yea what needs to happen is have Lowry start, and have Brooks off the bench for instant offense ala J.Terry, and Ginobili..

TehSamurai
08-12-2010, 10:33 PM
[/B]

I don't think Paul is to thrilled with Having Ariza as his Pippen. Beside Wasn't it rumor a Couple of weeks back that Paul Wanted out of NO. This is very risky.

Hoston Didn't really need Ariza and getting lee is good insurance for injury prone Kevin Martin.

Why does Ariza have to be Paul's Pippen? What about West or Thornton? They will get more shots than Ariza.

Nets fan 93
08-12-2010, 11:32 PM
I like for all teams but the Hornets. I dont see Ariza being the answer.
Pacers are the real winners though. Murphy= Collison and Posey? Yeah right.
Nets got a good deal getting a starting PF unitll Favors is ready.
Rockets open time for Budinger and save money.
Hornets trade away basically their future PG for a role player. What if Ariza doesnt work out? CP3 will jet outta there. they will have nobody.

saintdrew
08-13-2010, 12:52 AM
I like for all teams but the Hornets. I dont see Ariza being the answer.
Pacers are the real winners though. Murphy= Collison and Posey? Yeah right.
Nets got a good deal getting a starting PF unitll Favors is ready.
Rockets open time for Budinger and save money.
Hornets trade away basically their future PG for a role player. What if Ariza doesnt work out? CP3 will jet outta there. they will have nobody.

Ok well check it out...

Ariza is not the answer...Ok, I can live with that. But he is quite the asset we needed on the Hornets roster.

However, you could be very right. If the Ariza deal does not work out- and Paul ends up leaving, then our franchise is literally doomed. But Dell Demps kept Chris Paul in touch with this trade so Paul likes it.

Highlight
08-13-2010, 01:18 AM
Ok well check it out...

Ariza is not the answer...Ok, I can live with that. But he is quite the asset we needed on the Hornets roster.

However, you could be very right. If the Ariza deal does not work out- and Paul ends up leaving, then our franchise is literally doomed. But Dell Demps kept Chris Paul in touch with this trade so Paul likes it.

Yeah, I'm sure CP3 was consulted on this deal.

momoneyyyy
08-13-2010, 01:19 AM
i think collison is a steal for the pacers.

howiend
08-13-2010, 01:32 AM
^my thoughts exactly. indiana was desperate for a pg and they got a really good one - can't believe they pulled it off (for troy murphy? r u kidding me!) - i'm not a pacer fan per se but am tempted to be at least for a while so i can know what it is like to be so excited for a trade and get a steal like this

mynameismo
08-13-2010, 02:12 AM
So teams are lining up for Melo this early?

Chronz
08-13-2010, 02:45 AM
he shot horribly the first half of the season. plus, he was aked to do alot more than in orlando. since he's probably going to be a bench player in houston, he'll do much better.

Yea but he turned it around as the season went on, his rookie year was kind of the same way, he just needs time to adapt but yes I like him more in a reserve role, I just dont think he was that bad.

Chronz
08-13-2010, 02:55 AM
Outdated? I suppose you are referring to my use of conventional over advanced statistics.
Reading the rest of your post, no I mean per possession metrics, sorted into play sets and shooting zones. Kind of deflates the rest of your argument.


They simply go into detail on what conventional statistics already state.
Yes, go into detail. But your wrong, they often shed light on what conventional stats miss out on. I can show you endless amount of examples of articles where entire arguments are based on statistical inaccuracies.


Ariza is a poor shooter period. And even his ability as a slasher is overrated. Ariza is a great role player but New Orleans doesn't need a good role player. At least not at the price they paid.

The thing is, your not mentioning how his addition impacts the team, your just listing (not surprisingly) his weaknesses.


Ariza is nothing more than a big name at this point in time due to his stint with the Lakers. He is not a great player that will put any team over the top, ask the Rockets.
LOL its obvious you have no idea what the Rockets brass thinks.



Yes Ariza is a good defender but he is not enough of an upgrade over Posey on the defensive end to warrant giving up a talent like Darren Collison.

Not according to the statistics


No because last time I checked Ariza is A.) not going to be in a role player role and B.) not on a championship team
Last you checked? Please share your references..... oh wait you have non.

Wizard of O's
08-13-2010, 04:40 AM
Just a matter of time before the Rockets start going after Carmelo. Even if its just till the end of the year.