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BlueJayCarter
08-10-2010, 06:58 PM
Alex Anthopoulos took over as general manager of the Blue Jays on October 3rd, 2009. Though he might make a few moves in August, most of his first year is in the books. Let's review his major moves.

Signed John McDonald to a two-year, $3MM deal - 11-25-09. Fair price for the defensive whiz.


Signed Alex Gonzalez to a one-year, $2.75MM deal with a club option - 11-26-09. Anthopoulos parlayed Gonzalez's strong start into a trade with the Braves for Yunel Escobar and Jo-Jo Reyes (the Jays also gave up Tim Collins and Tyler Pastornicky).


Signed John Buck to a one-year, $2MM deal - 12-16-09. Buck was well worth the price, as he is having a solid year and made the All-Star team. He's currently on the DL with a thumb injury. Anthopoulos chose not to trade Buck in July, so he has to hope the catcher's Type B status holds up.


Acquired Kyle Drabek, Travis d'Arnaud, and Michael Taylor from Phillies for Roy Halladay and $6MM - 12-16-09. Flipped Taylor to the Athletics for Brett Wallace. Drabek tossed a no-hitter in Double A this year and has done a solid job overall. D'Arnaud has been generating impressive scouting reports, wrote Baseball Prospectus' Kevin Goldstein in June. Wallace we'll get to later.


Acquired Brandon Morrow from the Mariners for Brandon League and Johermyn Chavez - 12-23-09. Morrow had an incredible 17-strikeout one-hitter on Sunday; he's got the best strikeout rate of any starter this year. The move was difficult to understand from the Mariners' point of view at the time it was made.


Signed Kevin Gregg to a one-year, $2.75MM deal with two club options - 2-5-10. Credit Anthopoulos for realizing Gregg would have a decent year if his fluky home run rate returned to normal. As with Buck, the jury is still out on whether Gregg can be converted to cheap, young players.


Signed Jose Molina to a one-year, $1MM deal with a club option - 2-19-10. Another solid free agent signing.


Signed Adeiny Hechavarria to a four-year, $10MM deal - 4-13-10. Signed as a free agent out of Cuba, Hechavarria has a big league-ready glove and is hitting a little bit at Double A.


Acquired Fred Lewis from Giants for cash - 4-15-10. Hard to complain about Lewis' .272/.335/.444 line so far, especially given the price.


Signed Adonis Cardona to a $2.8MM deal - 7-13-10. Anthopoulos remained aggressive on the international free agent front, setting a record for a Venezuelan amateur with the righty's deal.


Acquired Yunel Escobar and Jo-Jo Reyes from Braves for Alex Gonzalez, Tim Collins, and Tyler Pastornicky - 7-14-10. Anthopoulos bought low on Escobar at a time most clubs might not have even realized the shortstop was available.


Acquired Anthony Gose from Astros for Brett Wallace - 7-29-10. If you're going to nitpick one Anthopoulos move, it's probably this one.


As for the draft, the Jays have signed three of their top four picks, with negotiations for first-rounder Deck McGuire expected to go down to the wire. Yesterday ESPN's Keith Law wrote that the Blue Jays had a "strong haul" in the draft.


Blue Jays fans couldn't ask for more from Anthopoulos' first year. He's been aggressive on international free agents and in the draft, savvy in regular free agency, and shrewd on the trade front. It was surprising to see the Jays retain Scott Downs, Jason Frasor, Gregg, and Buck at the trade deadline, but those players may bring draft pick compensation after the season.

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BlueJayCarter
08-10-2010, 07:00 PM
I feel the lack of action on the Trade Deadline was also bad for A.A, and the Gose-Wallace trade can be debated just like the Trade Rumors article but all the other moves have been excellent so far, draft, international signings and other trades and free agent moves.

BlueJayFanDan
08-10-2010, 09:32 PM
For the most part he has been great. Still not sure how I feel about the Wallace deal. Still wish he had kept Johermyn Chavez and Timmy Collins. I understand why we moved them though. To get better obviously... Overall though, fantastic!

idrinkpepsi
08-10-2010, 10:00 PM
Really great moves throughout the year, AA has done fantastic in his first year in Toronto so far.

treeleaf
08-10-2010, 10:36 PM
As a jays fan in the past i found alot of clubs were laughing at us
now it feels i can laugh at them now
AA stole an arm and a leg this year
i feel if buk or downs was gone he mighta took the head too:)

nithanyo
08-10-2010, 11:17 PM
As a jays fan in the past i found alot of clubs were laughing at us
now it feels i can laugh at them now
AA stole an arm and a leg this year
i feel if buk or downs was gone he mighta took the head too:)

but if we traded em away for crap it wouldnt have made sense

Halladay
08-10-2010, 11:55 PM
A.A has done a great job in his first year. He's gone out, signed vets to cheap deals, grabbed some international prospects who look good and continues adding to the farm. The Wallace deal will be debated for a long time. He took a risk. Wallace likely ends up an average first basemen. Not exactly an impossible position to fill.

wamco
08-11-2010, 08:24 AM
great job so far. I don't think we got fair value in trading halladay (or that rebuilding was the route to take at that time). I didn't like the Gose deal. Escobar was a steal. He'd be the first to admit that he got lucky with Gonzo and Buck's season, but being unable to capitolize on Buck/Gregg/Down and to a lesser extent bautista (as he isn't a free agent) 's solid season is worrisome.

Clearly making the switch from JP to AA was the right choice.

Bob_at_york
08-11-2010, 09:06 AM
He'd be the first to admit that he got lucky with Gonzo and Buck's season,

Gonzo's power numbers was lucky but I don't think Buck's numbers are that lucky. Buck's OPS is just a little bit above last year's numbers and I think that should have been expected with how he has joined a better line-up.

Big Hurt
08-11-2010, 09:38 AM
great job so far. I don't think we got fair value in trading halladay (or that rebuilding was the route to take at that time). I didn't like the Gose deal. Escobar was a steal. He'd be the first to admit that he got lucky with Gonzo and Buck's season, but being unable to capitolize on Buck/Gregg/Down and to a lesser extent bautista (as he isn't a free agent) 's solid season is worrisome.

Clearly making the switch from JP to AA was the right choice.

If everybody likes AA, why are people doubting the Gose deal.
Maybe AA traded Wallace because after a VERY hot start Wallace only had a .868 OPS in a hitter friendly park in Vegas with Emaus .922 and JPA .998, Lubanski .958 having done better.
Maybe it was the fact that Hoffpauir has had almost an identical statistacal hitting season as Wallace.
Maybe it was the fact that Wallace was only going to be a 1st baseman and it has been decided that will be the position that JPA or Adam Lind will play for the next 5 years, or that picking up a 1B is not too tough.
Maybe it was the fact that obtaining a young CF with huge upside that our highly paid scouting staff loves was too hard to pass up.
If AA made the deal I trust it until he shows me a reason to doubt him.

Shifty1 69
08-11-2010, 10:17 AM
I feel the lack of action on the Trade Deadline was also bad for A.A, and the Gose-Wallace trade can be debated just like the Trade Rumors article but all the other moves have been excellent so far, draft, international signings and other trades and free agent moves.

I was amped up for a flurry at the deadline and was a little disappointed by the lack of action. I was also not so sure (nor am I now) about the Gose deal... but if the return wasnt there for the BP arms or Buck, then I am rather happy that AA refused to just dump them. With Downs best case/worst case (not sure which is which), he turns down arb and the Jays get 2 more high picks or he accepts arb and the Jays get a VERY valuable piece to a perceived weakness in the bullpen. Same goes for Frasor. Buck I wanted to sell high on, but not a bad guy to keep around for the rest of the year and hopefully get a sammich pick for when he goes. By not selling the farm he has kept the team together that is currently creating a buzz with most fans.

The team (by most accounts) has taken a large step forward for the future. Couple that with the success on the field this year, how could anyone not think he and his staff are doing a fantastic job? Better now, better tomorrow... its incredible how much he has done in less than a year, if for nothing else, the complete shift in perception of the franchise both inside and outside of Toronto. JP does deserve a fair amount of credit too IMO.

As for the Wallace-Gose deal, I subscribe to the "he knows what he is doing far more than I do, and judging by his other moves I will give him the benefit of the doubt that he did the right thing".

He has been great on the trade/budget Free Agent/international FA fronts... I am very curious how he will do on the Big Ticket FA signings once enough legit peices are in place for him to make a splash. Its one things to fleece other GM's and convince young int'l FA's to come to Toronto, its another to get veteran stars who have played in the US for their whole careers to come up here to live 8 months a year.

I AM A HUGE FAN of the work he's done and seems to be doing.:clap:
Go Jays Go!!!!:)

Big Hurt
08-11-2010, 11:58 AM
Another note about not liquidating everyone off the roster at the deadline:
You need butts in the seats, happy customers, happy sponsers, nice TV ratings.
The Jays are playing against the AL East teams a bunch this month. It is nice that they are going in with a solid chance of winning every game with a solid bullpen that was not liquidated for some A ball 2nd rate prospect.
If the Jays keep playing like they are, players will not want to leave and FAs will welcome the chance to join the Jays.

StayOnBoard
08-11-2010, 03:21 PM
If everybody likes AA, why are people doubting the Gose deal.
Maybe AA traded Wallace because after a VERY hot start Wallace only had a .868 OPS in a hitter friendly park in Vegas with Emaus .922 and JPA .998, Lubanski .958 having done better.
Maybe it was the fact that Hoffpauir has had almost an identical statistacal hitting season as Wallace.
Maybe it was the fact that Wallace was only going to be a 1st baseman and it has been decided that will be the position that JPA or Adam Lind will play for the next 5 years, or that picking up a 1B is not too tough.
Maybe it was the fact that obtaining a young CF with huge upside that our highly paid scouting staff loves was too hard to pass up.
If AA made the deal I trust it until he shows me a reason to doubt him.

Stop making sense, there's no place for that ;)

As for AA's deals - if I wanted to "nitpick" I'd say that keeping Buck/Frasor/Gregg after the deadline was the biggest problem. Buck may or may not bring compensation BUT he does fantastic with the young kids... so I can see that side. But if he doesn't stay a Type B then we lose him for nothing. Gregg/Frasor are surely not in the long term plans and MAY get compensation but who really knows until the season is finished.

The rest of his deals has been absolutely fantastic...

Nofear
08-11-2010, 06:58 PM
Stop making sense, there's no place for that ;)

As for AA's deals - if I wanted to "nitpick" I'd say that keeping Buck/Frasor/Gregg after the deadline was the biggest problem. Buck may or may not bring compensation BUT he does fantastic with the young kids... so I can see that side. But if he doesn't stay a Type B then we lose him for nothing. Gregg/Frasor are surely not in the long term plans and MAY get compensation but who really knows until the season is finished.

The rest of his deals has been absolutely fantastic...

Not entirely directed at you but your quote sums up what I need to say the best.

I don't understand why not trading Buck, Gregg, Downs etc... at the deadline is such a big deal to some. The article even brings up the point about turning Buck and Gregg into prospects and I don't get it. People just can't be satisfied with a great deal, they have to complain about not getting rid of guys that have been tremendous assets to the club being over .500. Were talking about guys that are worth every penny of those cheap contracts too.

People want young guys, I get that, but you get solid offense from a catcher that everyone raves about how much he's helped the young pitchers for only 2 million and that just isn't enough? Ditto all the other players that everyone wanted gone. I guess no one values the intangibles and the winning atmosphere these players helped create.

Sure, you deal Gonzo because you get a great offer but if you don't for the others, why is it wrong? Heck, why does every guy at the end of a contract need to be bleed dry just to satisfy a few fans? Maybe these guys want to be here and the team wants them too?

I'd rather keep the guys comfortable and promote a winning attitude than to ditch everyone for low level specs and kill the momentum thats been built. Yes, the Jays are going nowhere this year but they'd be going the wrong direction if they ditched every player thats helping the young players develop.

I just think some people are going overboard wanting to dump players for prospects. Prospects are important but so it promoting the winning ways. Give me .277 .309 .498 .807 and a whole staff of happy pitchers from a 2 million catcher anyday.

B2theRY
08-11-2010, 08:52 PM
when youre a 1st year GM

teams try to take advantage of you in trades hoping you will not know what you are doing or just that you are just too eager to get the first one out of the way.


I have NO problems with not trading Buck, I have no problems with not trading Downs.

you take the picks.

i still believe Buck will be back next season.

wamco
08-12-2010, 08:23 AM
Another note about not liquidating everyone off the roster at the deadline:
You need butts in the seats, happy customers, happy sponsers, nice TV ratings.
The Jays are playing against the AL East teams a bunch this month. It is nice that they are going in with a solid chance of winning every game with a solid bullpen that was not liquidated for some A ball 2nd rate prospect.
If the Jays keep playing like they are, players will not want to leave and FAs will welcome the chance to join the Jays.

If he received offers he liked, he would have traded all of them and not worried for a second about hurting the already pitiful attendance.

wamco
08-12-2010, 08:26 AM
Not entirely directed at you but your quote sums up what I need to say the best.

I don't understand why not trading Buck, Gregg, Downs etc... at the deadline is such a big deal to some. The article even brings up the point about turning Buck and Gregg into prospects and I don't get it. People just can't be satisfied with a great deal, they have to complain about not getting rid of guys that have been tremendous assets to the club being over .500. Were talking about guys that are worth every penny of those cheap contracts too.

People want young guys, I get that, but you get solid offense from a catcher that everyone raves about how much he's helped the young pitchers for only 2 million and that just isn't enough? Ditto all the other players that everyone wanted gone. I guess no one values the intangibles and the winning atmosphere these players helped create.

Sure, you deal Gonzo because you get a great offer but if you don't for the others, why is it wrong? Heck, why does every guy at the end of a contract need to be bleed dry just to satisfy a few fans? Maybe these guys want to be here and the team wants them too?

I'd rather keep the guys comfortable and promote a winning attitude than to ditch everyone for low level specs and kill the momentum thats been built. Yes, the Jays are going nowhere this year but they'd be going the wrong direction if they ditched every player thats helping the young players develop.

I just think some people are going overboard wanting to dump players for prospects. Prospects are important but so it promoting the winning ways. Give me .277 .309 .498 .807 and a whole staff of happy pitchers from a 2 million catcher anyday.

You realize he is a free agent right? People would just prefer to trade for a prospect that is further along in the system than a draft pick, even AA, who calls draft picks the worst case scenario. Or include him in a trade ala Gonzo for a buy-low player.

2009mvp
08-12-2010, 08:55 AM
I'd rather keep the guys comfortable and promote a winning attitude than to ditch everyone for low level specs and kill the momentum thats been built. Yes, the Jays are going nowhere this year but they'd be going the wrong direction if they ditched every player thats helping the young players develop.

Talent>>>>>>>>>>>Attitude. Get talent now, worry about the intangible crap later.

Nofear
08-12-2010, 05:42 PM
You realize he is a free agent right? People would just prefer to trade for a prospect that is further along in the system than a draft pick, even AA, who calls draft picks the worst case scenario. Or include him in a trade ala Gonzo for a buy-low player.


Talent>>>>>>>>>>>Attitude. Get talent now, worry about the intangible crap later.

Wait a minute here, I think both of you miss the point.

Using Buck for example, you're paying low dollars to a guy and he has done every single thing you could have hoped for and more. Why does he have to be turned into anything to be a success?

I always thought you sign a FA to do a job but you're basically saying that doing the job isn't enough. You want FA to sign and then turn those guys into prospects is like having your cake and eating it too.

You don't think thatís a bad message to send to FA that when they sign a one year deal, "Hey we don't care how well you play, we're trading you for prospects".

As for you asking if I realize that a prospect is better than a draft pick itís a moot point. I don't give a crap if they get zero for Buck, he's done what he was brought here to do and actually done way way more than expected. Milking the guy to get more prospects isn't fair to him.

I just don't get why itís such a disaster to some that they can't squeeze even more value out of ever asset. Maybe AA wants the guy to stay and maybe pick him up next year too. Signing guys and them ditching them when they play well is bad business as FA's will say no the next time the Jays offer a deal because they move there and get dumped at first opportunity regardless of how well they play. There has to be some honour or best business practices involved because no one wants to be part of a team that lack integrity in FA signings.

Again, Buck has done everything we could hope for at a low cost so if he walks for nothing, it was still a great deal for the Jays. Keep your prospects; I'll take a team full of FA's that exceed the money and expectations by as much as Buck has any day. Only narrow minded or negative people would say itís a failure that they didn't turn him into specs. Oh and narrow minded includes those counting on Buck being a type B because no one thought he'd be comp eligible to begin with so anything in return is strictly a bonus situation not a worse case.

wamco
08-12-2010, 05:48 PM
so you anticipate buck being offered a multiyear contract after this season? of course not. He'll be offered arby and management will hope he doesn't accept.

Nofear
08-12-2010, 06:09 PM
so you anticipate buck being offered a multiyear contract after this season? of course not. He'll be offered arby and management will hope he doesn't accept.

Nothing like smearing the truth in what I said is there?

Again, I don't care if we get nothing for him at all or they don't offer arby. He was brought in on a cheap deal and exceed expectation of every single person that watches the Jays. He was worth every single dime they paid him.

He did everything and they didn't get prospects for him. Boo hoo, for all those people who want more from him.

I guess you don't see the logic that the team made out pretty damn good on this deal and getting prospects or not getting them isn't changing the fact that he was signed to do a job and he delivered and it was a good deal for the Jays. No ones disputing that prospects for him would be nice, but to me there not needed to confirm this signing worked out for the Jays.

Much like Bautista, Buck should be treated like "we couldn't move you but were glad he still here" mentality not this failure because of a couple low prospects that couldn't be had.

You of all people that support FA spending should see the value of bringing in a guy and just being happy he played well above his contract value and expectations.

wamco
08-12-2010, 07:26 PM
players realize the nature of 1 year contracts. I'm sure of this.

Nofear
08-12-2010, 08:14 PM
players realize the nature of 1 year contracts. I'm sure of this.

So what? Teams offering trades are also aware of the two month rental also and won't pay fair value. I am sure of this also but the difference is I have proof, Buck's still a Jay.

wamco
08-12-2010, 08:43 PM
and cone was a jay and kent was a met. Just because our GM's haven't made many significant trade deadline deals in the past decade don't mean they don't happen all the time.

Shifty1 69
08-13-2010, 08:39 AM
Wait a minute here, I think both of you miss the point.

Using Buck for example, you're paying low dollars to a guy and he has done every single thing you could have hoped for and more. Why does he have to be turned into anything to be a success?

I always thought you sign a FA to do a job but you're basically saying that doing the job isn't enough. You want FA to sign and then turn those guys into prospects is like having your cake and eating it too.HELL YA, what good is having cake and not eating it too??;):D

You don't think thatís a bad message to send to FA that when they sign a one year deal, "Hey we don't care how well you play, we're trading you for prospects". Nope, I think the message is "we will give you a starting MLB job on a 1 year contract and if you play well enough you may get the chance to go play for a contender"... I would think that would please ANY guy thats on a 1 year deal. If you repeatedly sign guys to 5 year deals then deal them 1.5 years into it, then that would cast a worse shadow on the franchise with potential FA's IMOyou asking if I realize that a prospect is better than a draft pick itís a moot point. I don't give a crap if they get zero for Buck, As a fan you should want all you can get for any asset.he's done what he was brought here to do and actually done way way more than expected. Milking the guy to get more prospects isn't fair to him. I am sure Buck is A-ok with getting paid $2million and having his first chance to be the #1 catcher. I dont think he'd feel slighted at all. I am pretty sure nobody uproots their families to Canada based on a 1 year deal.

I just don't get why itís such a disaster to some that they can't squeeze even more value out of ever asset. Maybe AA wants the guy to stay and maybe pick him up next year too. Perhaps Signing guys and them ditching them when they play well is bad business as FA's will say no the next time the Jays offer a deal Not making your team better using the assets you have is bad business because they move there and get dumped at first opportunity regardless of how well they play. Players on 1 year deals are happy to have the opportunity to play well so they can earn next years (and hopefully more) starting job somehwere.There has to be some honour or best business practices involved because no one wants to be part of a team that lack integrity in FA signings.

Again, Buck has done everything we could hope for at a low cost so if he walks for nothing, it was still a great deal for the Jays. Keep your prospects; I'll take a team full of FA's that exceed the money and expectations by as much as Buck has any day. Only narrow minded or negative people would say itís a failure that they didn't turn him into specs. It wasnt a failure, he just didnt get an offer that A) exceededwhat he perceived he could get from the probable sandwich pick B) he has an interest in bringing him back on a similar low risk deal and the trade offers didnt warrant burning the bridge C) Etc etc etc. Buck would be gone if AA was offered what he felt was necessary to move him, AA wasnt showing loyalty to guy on a 1 year deal, lol. Oh and narrow minded includes those counting on Buck being a type B because no one thought he'd be comp eligible to begin with so anything in return is strictly a bonus situation not a worse case. :clap:Bonus indeed

Above in RED

2009mvp
08-13-2010, 11:53 AM
Wait a minute here, I think both of you miss the point.

Using Buck for example, you're paying low dollars to a guy and he has done every single thing you could have hoped for and more. Why does he have to be turned into anything to be a success?

I always thought you sign a FA to do a job but you're basically saying that doing the job isn't enough. You want FA to sign and then turn those guys into prospects is like having your cake and eating it too.

There's different type of FA signings. There's the AJ Burnett/BJ Ryan "we expect you to be here the duration of your contract contributing to a winning team" and then there's a John Buck/Alex Gonzalez type of deal where both parties know what they're getting, a short-term stopgap. When it's time to sign top FA's to multi-year deals I'm certain they won't give a damn what the organization did with Joe Blow SS on a one-year deal.


You don't think thatís a bad message to send to FA that when they sign a one year deal, "Hey we don't care how well you play, we're trading you for prospects".


No, no I don't.


As for you asking if I realize that a prospect is better than a draft pick itís a moot point. I don't give a crap if they get zero for Buck, he's done what he was brought here to do and actually done way way more than expected. Milking the guy to get more prospects isn't fair to him.

This sounds harsh, but who cares what's "fair" to him? Buck's had a pretty uneventful career up to this point, prior to 2010 he was basically as close to a replacement level C as you're gonna find. Those kinda players get tossed around the league and really should just be glad they find a place to play.
[/QUOTE]


I just don't get why itís such a disaster to some that they can't squeeze even more value out of ever asset. Maybe AA wants the guy to stay and maybe pick him up next year too. Signing guys and them ditching them when they play well is bad business as FA's will say no the next time the Jays offer a deal because they move there and get dumped at first opportunity regardless of how well they play. There has to be some honour or best business practices involved because no one wants to be part of a team that lack integrity in FA signings.

Well because if you're gonna win in the East you can't sit on your *** and watch assets walk away without a return (Hello Mr. Rios). It's painfully obvious Buck has no place with the team next year. What you're preaching there sounds like a recipe for mediocrity, which I'm sure most of us have had more than enough of.


[QUOTE]
Again, Buck has done everything we could hope for at a low cost so if he walks for nothing, it was still a great deal for the Jays. Keep your prospects; I'll take a team full of FA's that exceed the money and expectations by as much as Buck has any day. Only narrow minded or negative people would say itís a failure that they didn't turn him into specs. Oh and narrow minded includes those counting on Buck being a type B because no one thought he'd be comp eligible to begin with so anything in return is strictly a bonus situation not a worse case.

No one said it was a failure per say. Really I'm not even sure why we're debating Buck specifically, of all the guys on the market at the deadline he's the one I thought was guaranteed to leave and net us a sandwich pick. Didn't see the injury coming, but that doesn't change what I thought then.

My problem is with the idea that you have to worry about things like your front office's reputation and players' attitudes when you're acquiring talent. We're not talking about mistreating stars here, we're talking about guys who have been replacement level talent the majority of their careers, or veteran relievers on a 4th place team. In a couple of years when the Jays will likely be exploring the market for impact players I'd much rather see them pitching a great surrounding cast to those guys than a sterling reputation for treating guys at the end of their contracts and a mediocre roster.

Nofear
08-13-2010, 04:42 PM
There's different type of FA signings. There's the AJ Burnett/BJ Ryan "we expect you to be here the duration of your contract contributing to a winning team" and then there's a John Buck/Alex Gonzalez type of deal where both parties know what they're getting, a short-term stopgap. When it's time to sign top FA's to multi-year deals I'm certain they won't give a damn what the organization did with Joe Blow SS on a one-year deal.



No, no I don't.


This sounds harsh, but who cares what's "fair" to him? Buck's had a pretty uneventful career up to this point, prior to 2010 he was basically as close to a replacement level C as you're gonna find. Those kinda players get tossed around the league and really should just be glad they find a place to play.



Well because if you're gonna win in the East you can't sit on your *** and watch assets walk away without a return (Hello Mr. Rios). It's painfully obvious Buck has no place with the team next year. What you're preaching there sounds like a recipe for mediocrity, which I'm sure most of us have had more than enough of.



No one said it was a failure per say. Really I'm not even sure why we're debating Buck specifically, of all the guys on the market at the deadline he's the one I thought was guaranteed to leave and net us a sandwich pick. Didn't see the injury coming, but that doesn't change what I thought then.

My problem is with the idea that you have to worry about things like your front office's reputation and players' attitudes when you're acquiring talent. We're not talking about mistreating stars here, we're talking about guys who have been replacement level talent the majority of their careers, or veteran relievers on a 4th place team. In a couple of years when the Jays will likely be exploring the market for impact players I'd much rather see them pitching a great surrounding cast to those guys than a sterling reputation for treating guys at the end of their contracts and a mediocre roster.

It wasn't you directly but at least two references have been made to not dealing these guys made the move by AA a failure. The orginal article also says it.

Thats the point I'm making, the guy didn't get traded but so what they've still served a purpose and done their jobs. Yes, no doubt specs would have been nice but that doesn't make the the signings of Buck or the tenour of Downs or others failures.

I'm just tired of hearing how something should have been done to move these players when the actual job these guys are paid to do, is being done very well.