PDA

View Full Version : How bout matching stats and not salaries in trades?



Hellcrooner
08-09-2010, 12:32 AM
Supossedly the matching salarys is there to ensure similar talent is traded both ways.
As in, if player x has x high salary it means its good so ito trade him you need to throw two players that add up to taht so its supposed to be fair talent wise.

The truth ends up being that tons of bad players get overpayed and then when they are in their expiring year teams find the way to send them and some second rounder and get a star bac k from a team that need s to cut slary or whatever reason.

And it gets worse when sometimes not only they get the star but the player is waived and gets back to teh team in 5 days, wich means team A traded a star to team b for .......nothing.


Ok now lets sy the players in teh trade had to match up stats.

OK YOU GOT player A who is making 25 ppg 10 rpg 4 apg and 2 blocks


then the other team sends player b who makes 5 ppg, 2 rpg, 1 rpg, and 2 blocks

salarys match and player B is a expiring.

If done like i said the trade does rejected by League officials

The team has to also send a c or even a C and D players in orrder that B + C +D add to the stats of Player A.

This woudl need to be regardless cap space, in teh end if team X wants to cut costs and team Y doe snto care bout paying luxury tax allow them, this eay you can trade apromising rookie for some vets.


Example.

New orlans has Paul and Collison.

Collison has a ridiculy low salary, so any offer that matches his salary its a ridiculous one thae cant accept.

if tehy ahve to start adding salarys , they may need to lose more than they want to get a similar quality veteran player for the other, position.

Ok with the plan i propose it does not matter what his salry and incoming salary is , the only thing important is Collison stats add up to the Plaer or Player s the other team gets, regardelss if its a max contract or whatever.

What do You Think?

RaJa TWa
08-09-2010, 12:36 AM
haha good idea

mikealike305
08-09-2010, 12:39 AM
Good idea. Write the NBA a letter

homestarunner93
08-09-2010, 12:39 AM
This is dumb, stats aren't always conclusive in regards to how good a player is, and money is what fuels the league. Stats can fluctuate greatly from year to year, while contracts are a set value. If you were to do this, then does the salary cap become a stat cap? This is just too outlandish.

Hellcrooner
08-09-2010, 12:41 AM
This is dumb, stats aren't always conclusive in regards to how good a player is, and money is what fuels the league. Stats can fluctuate greatly from year to year, while contracts are a set value. If you were to do this, then does the salary cap become a stat cap? This is just too outlandish.

Well the current system doe snot work really.

I mean, Cavs got Jamison for what exactly?

homestarunner93
08-09-2010, 12:47 AM
Well the current system doe snot work really.

I mean, Cavs got Jamison for what exactly?

They got Al Thornton, Lazar Hayward, and a big expiring for a player they didn't want or need. Jamison isn't that good anyways, he scores a lot, but doesn't play much defense.

Hellcrooner
08-09-2010, 12:51 AM
They got Al Thornton, Lazar Hayward, and a big expiring for a player they didn't want or need. Jamison isn't that good anyways, he scores a lot, but doesn't play much defense.

Wasnt thronton areturn of a side deal.
?


I think it was ilgasukas and some pick for aJamison.

Then ilgauskas went back to Cavs.

IversonIsKrazy
08-09-2010, 01:06 AM
Wouldn't work, because if salaries don't match, then some teams can go way over the salary cap. For this way of trading to work, u would have to have NO salary cap, which would be very bad.
Nice thought, but wouldn't work

JayAllDay
08-09-2010, 01:20 AM
Zach Randolph for Pau Gasol

****ing do it

dhopisthename
08-09-2010, 01:33 AM
it is an interesting proposition but what about guys who are good defensive players? I agree that players are dumped for nothing but in most cases there is a reason. aka jamison was no longer in the wizards plans and was nothing more than a salary burden

abe_froman
08-09-2010, 01:36 AM
Well the current system doe snot work really.

I mean, Cavs got Jamison for what exactly?

they got out from an aged player's commitment so they could start rebuilding sooner.

yeah,your idea sucks

lakers4sho
08-09-2010, 01:44 AM
Crooner is the ruler of the universe!!!

bholly
08-09-2010, 02:38 AM
Supossedly the matching salarys is there to ensure similar talent is traded both ways.

What are you basing this on? By 'supposedly' do you really mean you just thought it up?
Other people have touched on it, but it's worth saying again: the point of salary matching isn't talent, it's so that teams can't keep building and building over the salary cap by trading for more expensive players.

Also stats don't mean that much, and it would lead to teams/players having an incentive to inflate/deflate stats in order to make trades, which would cause contractual and labour issues.

Also, even if we assume that value can be shown by stats, it is shown by different stats. If you need more rebounding, and are willing to give up a PG getting a lot of assist/steals, you should be able to - you shouldn't have to match up by sending away more rebounding.

Also, again assuming stats show value accurately, what they're showing is past value. Future value is almost always more important.

And, finally, you can't use an example like the Jamison trade to show that the current system is unfair. If the Wizards didn't think that was a good deal they could've just, you know, not done it.

In short: bad idea.

hugepatsfan
08-09-2010, 03:03 AM
Interesting idea, but it won't work.

jensbalboy
08-09-2010, 05:16 AM
a high percentile of trades happens to make cap space in the future a example the t-mac trade,the Emeka Okafor trade and don't forget how many times quentin richardson was traded last off-season

Hawkeye15
08-09-2010, 07:46 AM
Crooner, love the thought. But its no bueno. Teams makes trades for various reasons. You may trade away an aging all star for picks. You may have an owner over the cap with a mediocre team that wants to start shedding deals. This idea would make trade exceptions null. Just a handful of examples on why it doesn't work.

TheWatcher34
08-09-2010, 08:09 AM
now, then that's $$$$...

...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MezCclCSjNw

...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDzRvZcFn48

Havoc Wreaker
08-09-2010, 09:23 AM
What are salarys? And why are they being matched? :confused:

Hawkeye15
08-09-2010, 09:25 AM
What are salarys? And why are they being matched? :confused:

you know Crooner is on here in his second language, cmon now

Faneik
08-09-2010, 09:37 AM
What are salarys? And why are they being matched? :confused:

You're trying so hard to be intelligent and funny... but you just sound like a pretentious douche.

tcav701
08-09-2010, 09:44 AM
Can easily be avoided by incentive based contracts just like the NFL which should be the standard, at least financially for all sports.

Hawkeye15
08-09-2010, 09:52 AM
Can easily be avoided by incentive based contracts just like the NFL which should be the standard, at least financially for all sports.

good luck presenting that to the player's union

tcav701
08-09-2010, 09:55 AM
good luck presenting that to the player's union

So a player cant take $4 mil less because he plays like **** but the players union is ok with LJ and Bosh leaving $50 mil on the table?

Hugbees
08-09-2010, 10:09 AM
what the efffff?

Hawkeye15
08-09-2010, 10:10 AM
So a player cant take $4 mil less because he plays like **** but the players union is ok with LJ and Bosh leaving $50 mil on the table?

haha, pretty much man. Trust me, I am on your side, but the players union will fight tooth and nail over guaranteed deals.

tcav701
08-09-2010, 10:21 AM
haha, pretty much man. Trust me, I am on your side, but the players union will fight tooth and nail over guaranteed deals.

Yea its tough to change this late in the game. But its not as one sided as you think. If players outplay their contracts the usually get a new deal for the following season. Even if they don't they have the option of holding out which 9 times out of 10, grants them a better deal.

The entire NBA salary, trade, and free agency regulations only allow the rich to get richer. I mean how there are teams 30 mil over the cap and they are still signing players is rediculous.

Hawkeye15
08-09-2010, 10:25 AM
Yea its tough to change this late in the game. But its not as one sided as you think. If players outplay their contracts the usually get a new deal for the following season. Even if they don't they have the option of holding out which 9 times out of 10, grants them a better deal.

The entire NBA salary, trade, and free agency regulations only allow the rich to get richer. I mean how there are teams 30 mil over the cap and they are still signing players is rediculous.

there is minimal protection against teams way over signing. They can resign their own players without a hit, and allowed certain exceptions, etc.
I totally agree the salary cap needs to be restructured. This summer was just another example. Gay, Lee, JJ, these deals are ridiculous. There are a bunch of owners out of control, and it needs to stop.

touching on what else you were saying. Watching Troy Hudson, Terrell Brandon, for my Wolves. Making great money to sit on the bench hurt. I always thought it should be just like the NFL. Guaranteed money in the deal to a point, but other than that, goodbye if you are hurt or suck

Brooklyn Mets
08-09-2010, 10:28 AM
salary dump trades would be impossible..
and what about trading for prospects or draft picks?

-Kobe24-TJ19-
08-09-2010, 10:29 AM
Dumb idea:no:

tcav701
08-09-2010, 10:31 AM
there is minimal protection against teams way over signing. They can resign their own players without a hit, and allowed certain exceptions, etc.
I totally agree the salary cap needs to be restructured. This summer was just another example. Gay, Lee, JJ, these deals are ridiculous. There are a bunch of owners out of control, and it needs to stop.

touching on what else you were saying. Watching Troy Hudson, Terrell Brandon, for my Wolves. Making great money to sit on the bench hurt. I always thought it should be just like the NFL. Guaranteed money in the deal to a point, but other than that, goodbye if you are hurt or suck

its just everything from irresponsible spending from owner to trade exceptions to mid-level exceptions to veteran minimums.

all rules implemented to keep the players rich and the large market teams on top. I mean dont you think something needs to change when an expiring contract is more sought after than a very good player in the middle of his deal?

Steelers23_06
08-09-2010, 10:41 AM
okay so lets say you make that rule what about multi player trades. how do you say ok this center for a sg and a pg the stats wouldnt match up. you arent going to have a flawless system. the current system has flaws but hey it is what it is.

Giantwarrior
08-09-2010, 10:43 AM
That's the most stupid thing i have ever heard. most trades wont happen then.

ChiBulls91
08-09-2010, 10:49 AM
What are you basing this on? By 'supposedly' do you really mean you just thought it up?
Other people have touched on it, but it's worth saying again: the point of salary matching isn't talent, it's so that teams can't keep building and building over the salary cap by trading for more expensive players.

Also stats don't mean that much, and it would lead to teams/players having an incentive to inflate/deflate stats in order to make trades, which would cause contractual and labour issues.

Also, even if we assume that value can be shown by stats, it is shown by different stats. If you need more rebounding, and are willing to give up a PG getting a lot of assist/steals, you should be able to - you shouldn't have to match up by sending away more rebounding.

Also, again assuming stats show value accurately, what they're showing is past value. Future value is almost always more important.

And, finally, you can't use an example like the Jamison trade to show that the current system is unfair. If the Wizards didn't think that was a good deal they could've just, you know, not done it.

In short: bad idea.

dead on

BkOriginalOne
08-09-2010, 10:56 AM
Some players mean a lot more to their team than yours.

This would also make the Warrior and Knicks some of the most expensive teams because of their style of play.

Also, Defensive players would make next to nothing.
Also, you tend to play players for their future levels of production. It's in investment.
Also, this would lead to a lot of stat padding.

Also, your idea sucks.

Steelers23_06
08-09-2010, 11:03 AM
Some players mean a lot more to their team than yours.

This would also make the Warrior and Knicks some of the most expensive teams because of their style of play.

Also, Defensive players would make next to nothing.
Also, you tend to play players for their future levels of production. It's in investment.
Also, this would lead to a lot of stat padding.

Also, your idea sucks.

^^^^^this!

NYKalltheway
08-09-2010, 11:13 AM
How about scratch salaries and trades? Free market rules ;)

Havoc Wreaker
08-09-2010, 11:41 AM
you know Crooner is on here in his second language, cmon now

So am I.


You're trying so hard to be intelligent and funny... but you just sound like a pretentious douche.

I'm actually trying to be all three.

Hellcrooner
08-09-2010, 11:50 AM
So am I.



I'm actually trying to be all three.

So are you?

Lol Puerto Rico , ENglish is not B language for you, its 1b.

Hellcrooner
08-09-2010, 11:52 AM
good luck presenting that to the player's union

WHo knows, if the players Union wre intelolligent enough and greedy enough they would end wiht the draft, slary cap, and all the rest of the **** tright here and right now after this year and force the league to use wht is used in sports in teh rest of the world.
FREE MARKET.

Hawkeye15
08-09-2010, 12:13 PM
So am I.



I'm actually trying to be all three.

we should probably ban him from the site until he passes a comprehensive english course then.
I understand him just fine. Nitpicking at spelling is the dumbest thing I have seen on this site.

nanablvd
08-09-2010, 12:34 PM
Supossedly the matching salarys is NOT to ensure similar talent is traded both ways

Ragan
08-09-2010, 12:43 PM
Some players mean a lot more to their team than yours.

This would also make the Warrior and Knicks some of the most expensive teams because of their style of play.

Also, Defensive players would make next to nothing.
Also, you tend to play players for their future levels of production. It's in investment.
Also, this would lead to a lot of stat padding.

Also, your idea sucks.

Right on. I understand why you think the current system is flawed, but your idea to fix it is much, much worse for all the reasons BK mentioned and then some.

Jeff559
08-09-2010, 01:15 PM
Bad idea...
I don't understand the salary matching thing either. I understand the cap issues, but if a team is way under the cap how come they cant trade young cheap players +picks for a highly paid player?

NYKalltheway
08-09-2010, 01:22 PM
Saying it one more time. It should be a free market.

And my prediction is that in 10-15 years at most every sport in the USA will follow the rest of the world and have a free market. The US players will get "jealous" of the rest of the world and would want freedom & choice.

Hellcrooner
08-09-2010, 01:44 PM
Saying it one more time. It should be a free market.

And my prediction is that in 10-15 years at most every sport in the USA will follow the rest of the world and have a free market. The US players will get "jealous" of the rest of the world and would want freedom & choice.

its stange that they ahad still not gotten jealous.

I mean, Lebron is going to earn 16 million dollar a year BAFORE taxes from miami heat.

Whilst Cristiano rolnaldo is getting 60 Million Dollars TAX FREE a year .

Im talking only bout the team contracts.

But imsure Cristiano does get more moeny then lj from sponsors. too

NYKalltheway
08-09-2010, 03:57 PM
its stange that they ahad still not gotten jealous.

I mean, Lebron is going to earn 16 million dollar a year BAFORE taxes from miami heat.

Whilst Cristiano rolnaldo is getting 60 Million Dollars TAX FREE a year .

Im talking only bout the team contracts.

But imsure Cristiano does get more moeny then lj from sponsors. too

Are you sure it's that much? :p

I thought it was around $25m

Hellcrooner
08-09-2010, 05:03 PM
Are you sure it's that much? :p

I thought it was around $25m

im pretty sure.

Faneik
08-09-2010, 10:55 PM
So am I.



I'm actually trying to be all three.

Keep on trying with the 1st 2... the 3rd one you're right there.

djlamer
08-09-2010, 11:04 PM
sorry, but this has got to be one of the worst ideas i've ever heard of.
the nba is a business, not so role playing card game. businesses deal in money, not hit points or added attack points with the sword of destiny.
maybe we should throw out money all together and go back to the bartering system??

Robbw241
08-09-2010, 11:41 PM
I was like WTF. Then saw the thread maker and it made sense.

Iodine
08-09-2010, 11:49 PM
Crooner. Stop. Just. Stop.

Hellcrooner
08-10-2010, 12:08 AM
Crooner. Stop. Just. Stop.

Or you simply dont open my threads.


see the poll, theres a good number of people that think is an idea.

Havoc Wreaker
08-10-2010, 12:21 AM
So are you?

Lol Puerto Rico , ENglish is not B language for you, its 1b.

You've never been here, have you?

djlamer
08-10-2010, 12:35 AM
Or you simply dont open my threads.


see the poll, theres a good number of people that think is an idea.
5 peolple think its a good idea.

D Roses Bulls
08-10-2010, 12:36 AM
Supossedly the matching salarys is there to ensure similar talent is traded both ways.
As in, if player x has x high salary it means its good so ito trade him you need to throw two players that add up to taht so its supposed to be fair talent wise.

The truth ends up being that tons of bad players get overpayed and then when they are in their expiring year teams find the way to send them and some second rounder and get a star bac k from a team that need s to cut slary or whatever reason.

And it gets worse when sometimes not only they get the star but the player is waived and gets back to teh team in 5 days, wich means team A traded a star to team b for .......nothing.


Ok now lets sy the players in teh trade had to match up stats.

OK YOU GOT player A who is making 25 ppg 10 rpg 4 apg and 2 blocks


then the other team sends player b who makes 5 ppg, 2 rpg, 1 rpg, and 2 blocks

salarys match and player B is a expiring.

If done like i said the trade does rejected by League officials

The team has to also send a c or even a C and D players in orrder that B + C +D add to the stats of Player A.

This woudl need to be regardless cap space, in teh end if team X wants to cut costs and team Y doe snto care bout paying luxury tax allow them, this eay you can trade apromising rookie for some vets.


Example.

New orlans has Paul and Collison.

Collison has a ridiculy low salary, so any offer that matches his salary its a ridiculous one thae cant accept.

if tehy ahve to start adding salarys , they may need to lose more than they want to get a similar quality veteran player for the other, position.

Ok with the plan i propose it does not matter what his salry and incoming salary is , the only thing important is Collison stats add up to the Plaer or Player s the other team gets, regardelss if its a max contract or whatever.

What do You Think?

I'll just give you a big UMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM and leave it at that

Robbw241
08-10-2010, 12:40 AM
BOzER WTF!!!!

Hellcrooner
08-10-2010, 12:59 AM
You've never been here, have you?

Not actually but have two good friend s that are living hee and grew up there, they tobviusly talk both spanis and english.....and "spanglish" and tell me thats how things are up there.

Piculin Ortiz the Goat!!!!!!!!

Havoc Wreaker
08-10-2010, 01:05 AM
Not actually but have two good friend s that are living hee and grew up there, they tobviusly talk both spanis and english.....and "spanglish" and tell me thats how things are up there.

Piculin Ortiz the Goat!!!!!!!!
Well, most of the people here can barely speak Spanish correctly, so you can imagine English.

Piculin Wins. :laugh2: