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4166466502
08-08-2010, 10:52 PM
whenever i have watched him pitched ...he has reminded me of AJ a lot....i have heard a lot of analyst make comparisons....and today the way he was on and pumping fastballs...and had a nasty curve going....his delivery seemed similar to AJs....


would like to hear your thoughts?

Ragun
08-08-2010, 11:05 PM
ive said the same thing before.

ramz.n
08-08-2010, 11:10 PM
they throw similar stuff..hes just alot younger and healthier than aj.

nithanyo
08-08-2010, 11:16 PM
Morrow seems to have gotten to his act together at a younger age than AJ. Morrow may not have the same curveball as AJ but he has a good curveball with a deadly slider to compliment it. There fastballs are similar with imo Morrow having more control. Furthermore AJ is only on when his curveball is on. Since Morrow is more than a 2 pitch pitcher he can be dominant every game

I am a jays fan and obviously im going to be biased towards morrow tho :D
If you asked me this question 2 years ago my answer would have been different probably

Zaunnie
08-08-2010, 11:31 PM
Morrow doesn't cost 16.5 million dollars.

Bob_at_york
08-09-2010, 12:19 AM
Morrow doesn't cost 16.5 million dollars.

not yet.

StealingSigns
08-09-2010, 12:45 AM
That inside pitch to left handed batters he had working for him today was nasty. Tabler said that pitch wasn't in his arsenal at the beginning of the season. It has been fun watching him develop.

Bjaxn45
08-09-2010, 12:47 AM
not yet.


Ugh...That's still another 5 years away though probably.

JaysFan87
08-09-2010, 01:12 AM
whenever i have watched him pitched ...he has reminded me of AJ a lot....i have heard a lot of analyst make comparisons....and today the way he was on and pumping fastballs...and had a nasty curve going....his delivery seemed similar to AJs....


would like to hear your thoughts?

While they both have very good fastballs. The way in which the pitch is very very different. AJ's best pitches are his fastball and curve while Morrows best pitches are his fastball and slider. In fact Aj doesnt even have a slider he relies heavily on his fastball, curveball mix to be successful. Morrow on the other hand relies heavily on his slider to be effect Its his best pitch by far.


THe difference with the two? Aj has turned into a two pitch pitcher which does not bold well for him in the future and is the reason why he is struggling so much this year. He relies too much on his FB (throws it 71% of the time). While that alone doesnt make him a bad pitcher the fact that his out pitch (the curveball) has not been reliable at all this year makes this season just terrible for him. His curveball has a -4.9 rating this year which is the lowest it has ever been in his career.



Morrow on the other hand has developed a curveball that he can throw effectively along side his slider. In fact his best two pitches this year have been his slider at 6.5 and his curveball at 0.3. While not outstanding that pact that he can throw these two pitches effectively makes his fastball significantly better even if its rating this year is -5.5. His change up is still a work in progress at -4.7 but he only really started throwing a change-up last year so it will take some time for him to get comfortable with it. AJ does have a changeup too but he throws it only 3.3% of the time while he throws the fastball/curveball a combined 97% of the time...this year.

Halladay
08-09-2010, 01:42 AM
While they both have very good fastballs. The way in which the pitch is very very different. AJ's best pitches are his fastball and curve while Morrows best pitches are his fastball and slider. In fact Aj doesnt even have a slider he relies heavily on his fastball, curveball mix to be successful. Morrow on the other hand relies heavily on his slider to be effect Its his best pitch by far.


THe difference with the two? Aj has turned into a two pitch pitcher which does not bold well for him in the future and is the reason why he is struggling so much this year. He relies too much on his FB (throws it 71% of the time). While that alone doesnt make him a bad pitcher the fact that his out pitch (the curveball) has not been reliable at all this year makes this season just terrible for him. His curveball has a -4.9 rating this year which is the lowest it has ever been in his career.



Morrow on the other hand has developed a curveball that he can throw effectively along side his slider. In fact his best two pitches this year have been his slider at 6.5 and his curveball at 0.3. While not outstanding that pact that he can throw these two pitches effectively makes his fastball significantly better even if its rating this year is -5.5. His change up is still a work in progress at -4.7 but he only really started throwing a change-up last year so it will take some time for him to get comfortable with it. AJ does have a changeup too but he throws it only 3.3% of the time while he throws the fastball/curveball a combined 97% of the time...this year.

That's always been A.J's problem. When he starts struggling he just continues throwing the fastball. You can throw 100MPH but in this league it will eventually get crushed.

JetLi
08-09-2010, 05:24 AM
I personally find Morrow's slider to be much more effective than AJ Curve when both of them are on their game. Both are filthy, but Morrow's slider seems much more devastating because at least it looks like a fastball coming out of his hands and the location is just sick! Like the above poster mentioned, Morrow has seemed to get it together at a much younger age, which is great. Hopefully he gets to a consistency level that will lock him in our rotation for years to come.

JaysFan87
08-09-2010, 10:39 AM
I personally find Morrow's slider to be much more effective than AJ Curve when both of them are on their game. Both are filthy, but Morrow's slider seems much more devastating because at least it looks like a fastball coming out of his hands and the location is just sick! Like the above poster mentioned, Morrow has seemed to get it together at a much younger age, which is great. Hopefully he gets to a consistency level that will lock him in our rotation for years to come.

AJ's cuirveball is the best is one of the best curveballs in the league when he has it. In his best years with the jays, 07-08 he had one of the top 5 curveballs in the league based on pitch value. Not coincedently that is when he was the most effective.

Morrow's slider has drastavlly improved this year but it has not yet reached the same effectiveness of AJ's curve when the both have it at their best. Obviously age is a factor as its MOrrows first full season as a starter but if MOrrows slider continues to improve and develops an average changeup at best then he will have 4 pitches that he can throw confidently which I would take over AJ's insanely good curve any day of the week.

StayOnBoard
08-09-2010, 03:10 PM
He's way better than Burnett...

Not to mention younger, cheaper and under control for more years...

Morrow's stuff has ALWAYS been nasty, no one has seen him put it all together before yesterday is all.

StealingSigns
08-09-2010, 03:40 PM
He's way better than Burnett...

Not to mention younger, cheaper and under control for more years...

Morrow's stuff has ALWAYS been nasty, no one has seen him put it all together before yesterday is all.

Precisely. He no hit the Yankees through 7.2 innings in his first major league start.


Brandon Morrow's bid to become only the second pitcher in modern history to throw a no-hitter in his first major league start ended when pinch-hitter Wilson Betemit doubled with two outs in the eighth inning, and the Seattle Mariners held on to beat the New York Yankees 3-1 Friday night.

The 24-year-old right-hander, whose 100 previous big league outings were all in relief, blanked the Yankees until Betemit, batting for Jose Molina, lined a clean drive far over right fielder Ichiro Suzuki. The hit scored Hideki Matsui, who had walked with one out on a close 3-2 pitch.

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=248602&lid=sublink01&lpos=headlines_mlb

R. Johnson#3
08-09-2010, 04:49 PM
They are very similar, which explains why I'm not the biggest Brandon Morrow fan.

statquo
08-09-2010, 04:55 PM
ESPN insider discusses Morrow if anyone has the subscription. Fill us in.

JaysFan87
08-09-2010, 05:12 PM
They are very similar, which explains why I'm not the biggest Brandon Morrow fan.

you cant just pigeon hole morrow who is young and starting fulltime this year as someone who is AJ all over again just because he is sometimes inconsistent. Yes he is young and inconsistent, I dont know why this is such a shock to you. But young pitchers often struggle to be consistent at a young age. There is nothing wrong with that but to say that he is AJ all over again simple due to him not being perfect every time out is just foolish.

broncosfan_101
08-09-2010, 05:16 PM
The Seattle Mariners had the fifth pick in the 2006 draft and they selected Brandon Morrow, passing on a local kid who grew up within a hard ground ball of Safeco Field, Tim Lincecum.

It doesn't make life any easier to have this kind of thing on your résumé. And while Lincecum became great immediately, Morrow did what a lot of young pitchers do -- he struggled. He switched from being a starter to being a reliever and then he switched back, and by the end of the 2009 season, there were enough questions about him and enough doubt that the Mariners traded him to the Blue Jays for Brandon League.

If you had only tracked Morrow by his earned run average, which stood at 4.79 going into Sunday's start, you might've thought that he's continued to struggle. But he has had bursts of excellence all summer long, innings and games when he was completely dominant, when you could see him putting together his fastball and his changeup and breaking ball more consistently, when you could see his potential coming together.

"The only question about him now is his consistency," one talent evaluator said at the All-Star break. "He'll lose it for an inning or a series of batters."

But Morrow held it together throughout his start on Sunday, en route to 17 strikeouts and a near no-hitter. He was absolutely dominant, in a way that few pitchers can be. After the game, Morrow didn't seemed overwhelmed by the disappointment of failing to finish the no-hitter, and given where he came from -- and where he seems to be going -- that was completely appropriate.

How Morrow nearly no-hit the Rays, from Albert Larcada of ESPN Stats & Information:

A) He threw 25 changeups (career high) for 18.3 percent of his pitches (third most in a start in his career).
B) The Rays chased 38.5 percent of pitches out of the zone (second most in a start in his career).
C) He threw 70.8 percent strikes (second most in a start in his career).
D) He induced 20 swings-and-misses (second most in a game in his career).

He also joined a club of pitchers that have lost a no-hitter with two outs in the ninth inning since 2000 (Mike Mussina and Armando Galarraga had perfect game bids):

Brandon Morrow: Aug. 8, 2010 vs. Rays
Armando Galarraga: June 2, 2010 vs. Indians
Curt Schilling: June 7, 2007 vs. A's
Mike Mussina: Sept. 2, 2001 vs. Red Sox

Then there's Blue Jays history:

Blue Jays Close Calls

These are Toronto pitchers who've had a no-hitter broken up with two outs in the ninth. Amazingly, the Stieb occurrences in 1988 happened in back-to-back starts.
Pitcher Year Opponent 1st Hit
Brandon Morrow 2010 Rays Evan Longoria
Roy Halladay 1998 Tigers Bobby Higginson
Dave Stieb 1989 Yankees Roberto Kelly
Dave Stieb 1988 Orioles Jim Traber
Dave Stieb 1988 Indians Julio Franco

According to Bill James' metric "Game Score," which is a one-number summary of how good a pitcher's single-game performance is, Brandon Morrow's 17-strikeout, 2-walk one-hitter on Sunday -- which got a score of 100 -- is tied for the fourth-best single-game pitching performance since 1920. It was the highest by any pitcher in a single game since Randy Johnson scored 100 in his perfect game back in 2004.

High Ball

Highest pitcher "Game Score" in a nine-inning game since 1920.
Year Pitcher Opponent Game Score
1998 Kerry Wood, Cubs Astros 105
1991 Nolan Ryan, Rangers Blue Jays 101
1965 Sandy Koufax, Dodgers Cubs 101
2010 Brandon Morrow, Blue Jays Rays 100

Morrow came oh-so-close to throwing a no-hitter, writes Ken Fidlin. Morrow made a scout proud, Bob Elliott writes. A near-miss like this will haunt you, says Dave Stieb. Cito Gaston wanted him to finish the game. Vernon Wells gave up his body to make a big play.

By the way: Dave Perkins was the official scorer in the Rogers Centre on Sunday, and he deserves credit for having integrity on the Evan Longoria play. There is a small minority of official scorers who would have made a different call in that situation, with the home team's pitcher so close to history, on a ball that hit the glove of a fielder -- but Perkins made exactly the correct call, immediately.

ESPN article

StealingSigns
08-09-2010, 05:23 PM
you cant just pigeon hole morrow who is young and starting fulltime this year as someone who is AJ all over again just because he is sometimes inconsistent. Yes he is young and inconsistent, I dont know why this is such a shock to you. But young pitchers often struggle to be consistent at a young age. There is nothing wrong with that but to say that he is AJ all over again simple due to him not being perfect every time out is just foolish.

Yep.

Further to that, AJ is a two-pitch starter, and look out if the curve isn't working: he gets lit up. For all his talk about developing a change, it has never transpired:


""I don’t feel like I’ve had the success that I should have," Burnett said on Saturday, after giving up two runs in his first outing of the spring, a 9-1 loss to the Blue Jays. "I’m a .500 pitcher and there’s a reason behind that."

I know I’ve battled injuries in the past, but over three-quarters of my career I’m a two-pitch pitcher, so there’s got to be some theory behind it," Burnett said. "Why not learn another pitch? It’s only going to help." - AJ Burnett, spring training 2010

http://www.nj.com/yankees/index.ssf/2010/03/ny_yankees_pitcher_aj_burnett_2.html

And as someone mentioned in another thread, he has thrown his change for less than 3% as he continues to rely on the fastball and curve.

How many times did we hear AJ talk about adding to his arsenal while he was a Blue jay?

Morrow has so much more depth. Fastball, slider, change-up, curve.

broncosfan_101
08-09-2010, 05:23 PM
And another one...


I once had a memorable debate with my friend Lee Sinins, inventor of the amazing Complete Baseball Encyclopedia, over this seemingly non-controversial subject:

Is a no-hitter actually a meaningful event?

You think I'm kidding, right? Ohhhh, no. This one got practically as heated as the Thrilla in Manila.

Lee argued -- and still does -- that no-hitters are a "statistically insignificant" occurrence. And I can attest to this: He seriously believes that.

I argued, on the other hand -- and still do -- that Lee needs to get out of the house more.

My reasoning on this is as basic as a full-count heater: Whether it's "statistically significant" or not, witnessing a no-hitter is one of the most powerful and dramatic experiences that baseball offers to anyone who loves it. So if the spread sheets of America aren't impressed, who the heck cares?

I'm guessing approximately 99.99998 percent of all precincts worldwide would vote with me in this debate. But every once in a while, something breaks out in this sport that revives Lee's case.

Brandon Morrow
Morrow

And what happened Sunday in Toronto -- when Brandon Morrow threw one of the most dominating near-no-hitters of all time -- might be the best evidence yet that Lee Sinins could really be on to something. And I hate when that happens.

So let's take a look at the true meaning of this game, a meaning that supersedes the way-too-convenient label most people will slap on it: "Not a No-Hitter."

STRIKE ONE -- HOW DO YOU SPELL D-O-M-I-N-A-T-I-O-N DEPT.

No matter how we break this down, a 17-strikeout one-hitter is a more astounding, and more dominating, performance than your average no-hitter. Maybe not as dramatic, but indisputably more dominating. Take a look:

• How many active pitchers have thrown a no-hitter? How 'bout 16. But how many active pitchers have thrown a 17-strikeout game? That would be exactly four -- Morrow, Johan Santana (Aug. 19, 2007), Ben Sheets (May 16, 2004) and Kerry Wood (May 6, 1998). And Morrow is only the second active pitcher -- not to mention just the third pitcher since 1920 -- to have authored a 17-strikeout one-hitter. (The two other men with 17-K one-hitters: Wood and Curt Schilling.)

• There have been 168 no-hitters in the live-ball era. But if we use Bill James' "Game Score" as our means of measuring dominance -- and that's a stat which is only available for games back to 1920 -- just two of those no-hitters graded out as more dominating than Morrow's non-no-hitter. Morrow's game earned a 100 score. The only two 101s earned by any games in the past 90 years:

Sandy Koufax, Sept. 9, 1965 -- 14-K perfect game vs. Cubs
Nolan Ryan, May 1, 1991 -- 16-whiff no-hitter vs. Blue Jays

• Meanwhile, three other no-hitters earned a 100 Game Score -- Randy Johnson's 13-strikeout perfect game in Atlanta in 2004, Ryan's 17-strikeout no-hitter against the Tigers in 1973 and Warren Spahn's 15-punchout no-hitter against the Phillies in 1960. In other words, that means Morrow's non-no-hitter was judged more dominating than 163 of the past 168 no-hitters. Hard to argue.

• So what was the most dominating non-no-hitter? That was Wood's 20-strikeout game on May 6, 1998. That game earned an insane 108 Game Score -- the highest in any nine-inning game (no-hitter or otherwise) since 1920. But no other non-no-hitter in the past 90 years earned a higher score than Morrow's gem.

• The Rays have been no-hit three times since July 2009. They also now have been held to one hit or none five times just this season alone -- more than any team in the live-ball era, according to the Elias Sports Bureau. But if we use Game Score as the criterion, this was the most dominating game ever thrown against them in franchise history. The runner-up wasn't a no-hitter, either. It was Pedro Martinez's 13-strikeout one-hitter on Aug. 29, 2000, which got a 98 Game Score. In the history of the Rays franchise, they've played just five other games in which the opposing pitcher even earned a 90 -- three 93s (including the Mark Buehrle and Dallas Braden no-hitters), a 92 and a 90.

• Finally, let's stack up Morrow's game against the five no-hitters that have been thrown this year. Those five games might get more hoopla, but he wins the Game Score battle against every darned one of them. And just one was even close:

Morrow, 100
Roy Halladay, 98
Braden, 93
Matt Garza, 92
Ubaldo Jimenez, 88
Edwin Jackson, 85

Incidentally, Armando Galarraga's shoulda-been-perfect game also earned an 88. So Morrow thumped him, too. And you won't be shocked to learn that 29 different pitching performances this season have been computed to have been more dominating than Jackson's messy eight-walk, six-strikeout no-hitter was. But no game since 2004 has been more dominating than this one.

STRIKE TWO -- HE WAS JUST 17 DEPT.

And now all the 17-strikeout info you absolutely, positively need to know:

• Had this been a 17-strikeout no-hitter, it would have been just the second in history. The other was by (who else?) Nolan Ryan, against the Tigers, on July 15, 1973.

• Then again, Morrow's 17th whiff came after the no-hitter was broken up. So if he'd "only" thrown a 16-strikeout no-hitter, that still would have broken the record for most K's in a no-hitter thrown by pitchers known as "Not Nolan Ryan." Ryan also tossed 16-K and 15-K no-hitters. So in the Mere Mortal strikeout annals, the most in a non-Ryan no-hitter is 15, by Spahn (Sept. 15, 1960) and Don Wilson (June 18, 1967, vs. the Braves).

• Most strikeouts in a no-hitter by any active pitcher? That would be 12, by Justin Verlander (June 12, 2007, vs. the Brewers).

• Finally, just try to appreciate the magnitude of a 17-strikeout game, regardless of how many hits Morrow allowed. Since 1969 -- i.e., the post-Bob-Gibson-1.12-ERA era -- there have been 34 games of 17 whiffs or more. But 20 of them were authored by four pitchers: Ryan (eight), Randy Johnson (seven), Roger Clemens (three) and Pedro Martinez (two). The only other right-handed pitchers who have done it in all that time: Tom Seaver, David Cone, Schilling, Wood, Sheets, Hideo Nomo, Bill Gullickson and Ramon Martinez. And now you can add one more name: Brandon Morrow.

STRIKE THREE -- IN OTHER BRANDON MORROW NEWS DEPT.

Before we go, here come all the other tidbits on this game we could round up …

• How strange is this? In their 34 seasons of existence, the Blue Jays have now had five times as many no-hitters broken up with two outs in the ninth (five) as actual no-hitters (one, by Dave Stieb). And that's become a very odd specialty of their house. Elias reports that since their birth in 1977, they've had more no-hitters busted up with two outs in the ninth or later than any other team. No other franchise has had more than three games like that. (The Cubs, Tigers and Expos have had three apiece.)

• Morrow was the fourth pitcher this year to have a no-hitter broken up in the ninth inning -- the most times that's happened in one year since 1997. And he and Galarraga have made this the first season in which multiple no-hitters were busted up with two outs in the ninth since 1995. Last time any pitcher lost a no-hitter with two outs in the ninth inning before this year: June 7, 2007 -- Curt Schilling in Oakland.

• I mentioned earlier that the Rays now have been no-hit or one-hit five times just this season -- the most by any team in any season in the live-ball era. But if it makes the Blue Jays feel any better, they haven't been one-hit or no-hit in nearly 1,000 games -- since their old friend Chris Carpenter threw an interleague one-hitter against them on June 14, 2005. And they haven't been one-hit (or no-hit) by an American League team since Hideo Nomo one-hit them on May 25, 2001 -- more than 1,500 games ago.

• Finally, the day before Sunday's 1-0 game, the Rays and Blue Jays played a 17-11 game. And ESPN Stats & Info whiz Jason McCallum reports that ties the all-time record for most combined runs by two teams the day before a 1-0 game. The other 28-run game that fits that description: Brooklyn Dodgers 16, Boston Bees 12, on May 28, 1939. The next day, Tot Pressnell and Johnny Lanning hooked up for a 1-0 game. Combined strikeouts in that game: Exactly seven.

H-MYK
08-09-2010, 07:57 PM
I take Morrow over Burnett any time.

Bob_at_york
08-09-2010, 11:31 PM
And another one...

do you have a link for that one or is it an insider article? I want to send that one to my dad

1hardcore
08-10-2010, 12:49 AM
Morrow i believe has a split finger pitch.....

not sure if AJ has ....:)

broncosfan_101
08-10-2010, 01:44 AM
do you have a link for that one or is it an insider article? I want to send that one to my dad

Both are insiders. Pretty ridiculous to think that Morrow's start was one of the 5 best in the last 90 years. And I missed it. :mad:

scaramantula
08-10-2010, 07:44 AM
also both morrow and aj used molina behind the plate for most of there starts. which could be why hes playing so bad this year

Shifty1 69
08-10-2010, 08:27 AM
also both morrow and aj used molina behind the plate for most of there starts. which could be why hes playing so bad this year

huh??:confused:

Bob Loblaw
08-10-2010, 10:30 AM
huh??:confused:

Molina caught Burnett last year for the Yankees and this year is struggling without him.

scottythegreat1
08-10-2010, 11:34 AM
Morrow will be Burnett's replacement in New York when everything is said and done.

All in all, we basically STOLE Morrow from the Mariners.

Shifty1 69
08-10-2010, 04:00 PM
Molina caught Burnett last year for the Yankees and this year is struggling without him.

Was confused as to why that would affect "this" year for Burnett, but thanks, now I think I get it.
If AJ didnt have that 10cent head he would be fine without Molina.

Bob_at_york
08-10-2010, 04:02 PM
Molina caught Burnett last year for the Yankees and this year is struggling without him.

He wasn't his exclusive catcher or anything.

Bob Loblaw
08-10-2010, 05:31 PM
He wasn't his exclusive catcher or anything.

Then why else would Molina be starting over Posada in the post season?

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20091022&content_id=7524476&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy

Bob_at_york
08-11-2010, 08:51 AM
Then why else would Molina be starting over Posada in the post season?

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20091022&content_id=7524476&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy

AJ had 5 starts in July, Molina did not start any of the games. Maybe later in the season he caught him a bit but it wasn't a permanent thing.