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View Full Version : Can A European Player Lead An NBA Team To A Title?



JasonJohnHorn
08-06-2010, 08:31 AM
The Mavs have been trying to build around Dirk for years and have only been to the finals once and have crashed and burned in the first round in seasons where they should have been to at least the conference finals. The Cavs tried building around Big Z for a decade and failed. The Grizzlies gave up after a few years with Gasol and both the Knicks and Raptors have wasted high picks on European big men who have been unable to deliever.

I know the Mavs were close and could have won, and I think a European player could potentially lead an NBA team to a title, but it seems like as a first option, European players have done very well, but not quite well enough, and have served better as a second or third option (like Gasol, Manu, and Parker).


Thoughts?

gwrighter
08-06-2010, 08:43 AM
didn't parker win finals mvp? was he not first option then?

Hawkeye15
08-06-2010, 08:48 AM
Ricky Rubio will :)

DieHardColtsfan
08-06-2010, 08:55 AM
Gallinari and the Knicks - put it on the board.

Russell_Roberts
08-06-2010, 08:56 AM
dirk + beaubois

CostanzaNumba0
08-06-2010, 09:10 AM
I think one could argue that Pau was the better player in this years nba finals than his legendary teammate..

MagicHero3
08-06-2010, 09:15 AM
I think one could argue that Pau was the better player in this years nba finals than his legendary teammate..

good point;

Ive seen some europeans lead teams TO the finals;
Hedo (kind of)
Dirk
Parker

cubs0707
08-06-2010, 09:32 AM
fail

NYKalltheway
08-06-2010, 09:38 AM
Problem with NBA teams and European teams is that they draft them before they're ready.

So Ricky Rubio got drafted two years ago, after proving almost nothing in Spain and European continent.
He's still not the best player of his team. Next season he might be, but that does not mean he's ready for the NBA where different rules apply and there's a 180 turn in team mentality.

Nowitzki and Kirilenko moved to the NBA at a very young age and have stuck there for long. The jump to the NBA must be done at the optimum time for each player and he needs to have some tendecies that are non-European in order to succeed. Like play very fast, be very athletic etc

DCSportsIsPain
08-06-2010, 09:41 AM
This player could have if he had spent more of his career in the NBA:

AS (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sabonar01.html)

siralex
08-06-2010, 09:42 AM
manu is not european.

the cavs never really built anything around big Z, insofar as them saying "we need to put a team around him because hes a star."

parker was a monster in the nba playoffs and finals a few years back.

gasol was a key, very key, component in the lakers last couple of championships and an essential part of any chance of the three-peat.

so yes, a european player can lead a team to the nba championships.

Hiphopopotamus
08-06-2010, 09:44 AM
Sure, why not. We don't know. Some shockingly good player could come along and change the game. I don't think Parker or Gasol count though both were great in title runs but neither were the lead playe....ie if Duncan wasn't there TPs life would've been a lot harder, but maybe that's unfair of me because TDs life would be harder without Parker

NYKalltheway
08-06-2010, 09:50 AM
manu is not european.

He's from Argentina but spent his basketball career in Italy which is European... In terms of basketball he's European.

Another question is, can an American player lead a Euroleague team to the trophy? :D

97NYer
08-06-2010, 09:54 AM
He's from Argentina but spent his basketball career in Italy which is European... In terms of basketball he's European.

Another question is, can an American player lead a Euroleague team to the trophy? :D

I say Mike James to the Euroleague

Hellcrooner
08-06-2010, 10:00 AM
Yes.

But it needs to be a TEAM.

Built like the 04 pistons.


Put parker instead of billups and he coudl have led the team to a title.

Put Dirk or Pau instead of Rasheed and they coudl ahve led the team to a title.

Hellcrooner
08-06-2010, 10:03 AM
This player could have if he had spent more of his career in the NBA:

AS (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sabonar01.html)

:clap:

Its a pity COmmunust regime didnt allow him to join the blaers when they drafted them and he still had GOOD kness .

yes when he was bullyng an destroying David Robinson in teh olympics.


Had he ben able to join , Mr Thomas and Mr Jeffrey jordan woudl have some less rings.

Hellcrooner
08-06-2010, 10:06 AM
Ricky Rubio will :)

EVen if he fulfills his best case scenario people in america wont consider hinm the leader of the team.

Remmeber he is a Jason Kidd type at best.

So 15 ppg, 12 apg, 5 rpg 2 spg dont cut it as a leaders stats in the eye of peple.

siralex
08-06-2010, 10:10 AM
He's from Argentina but spent his basketball career in Italy which is European... In terms of basketball he's European.

with all due respect, aka, im not trying to flame or insult you, if im not mistaken, manu didnt spend that much longer in europe than he did in argentina. maybe 2 years more, max.

regardless, i think hed probably take issue with being called european "in basketball" terms, especially since argentines are some of the most passionately patriotic people in the world.

also, does that mean hes american, now, in "basketball terms?" i think hed probably argue otherwise.

Hellcrooner
08-06-2010, 10:12 AM
^good sig pick :D

siralex
08-06-2010, 10:19 AM
^good sig pick :D

ya era hora, no? :)

but we wont hijack this basketball thread crooner, lol.

Ace33Bone
08-06-2010, 10:24 AM
didn't parker win finals mvp? was he not first option then?

x2... that was exactly what I was going to put even though he was in Duncans shadow for a lot of years he emerged as the leader of that team in the playoffs that year and took the lead role in them winning the championship... and furthermore Dirk should have a ring if it were not for the refs robbing him... I mean everytime I think about how many tic tac calls D Wade got in that series it makes me sick to my stomach

Giantwarrior
08-06-2010, 10:27 AM
sure why not. we have a black president. anything is possible.

BOSTON617
08-06-2010, 10:29 AM
ya if dirk had the right pieces he could i mean he has a great team but if he still had nash i think they would of won by now

i think anyone can lead a team to a ring depending on the player on the team and his dedication to the team.....

Euro_Fan
08-06-2010, 10:37 AM
This player could have if he had spent more of his career in the NBA:

AS (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sabonar01.html)

MUCH RESPECT!!!

Sabonis is the man. He is the MJ of euro basketball even in his twilight years. Its sad that most NBA fans might not even know of him or the ones that do just remember him as bulky big man with good passing. Check out some footage of him when he was skinny and had good knees... he can really do some amazing things on the court.

ragee
08-06-2010, 10:38 AM
This player could have if he had spent more of his career in the NBA:

AS (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sabonar01.html)

Very true... This guy an entered the league a little too late... He could have done so much...

Minimal
08-06-2010, 10:42 AM
For people who never heard of Sabonis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdlB8tX75Mc
A center who could rebound, pass, shoot, make 3's, block, was a good defender, he could do everything, had a perfect FT% for a center.
He got in NBA in 31 years, far behind his prime and I think he could definetely lead a team to championship. He is best european basketball player ever and prolly the most talented center ever.

mikantsass
08-06-2010, 10:58 AM
Yes.

But it needs to be a TEAM.

Built like the 04 pistons.


Put parker instead of billups and he coudl have led the team to a title.

Put Dirk or Pau instead of Rasheed and they coudl ahve led the team to a title.

Absolutely not!

Da Knicks
08-06-2010, 11:04 AM
Did Pau not just lead the lakers to one?

MFFL==FML
08-06-2010, 11:05 AM
For people who never heard of Sabonis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdlB8tX75Mc
A center who could rebound, pass, shoot, make 3's, block, was a good defender, he could do everything, had a perfect FT% for a center.
He got in NBA in 31 years, far behind his prime and I think he could definetely lead a team to championship. He is best european basketball player ever and prolly the most talented center ever.

I guess you forgot a man named, "Dirk Nowitzki." :facepalm:

Hawkeye15
08-06-2010, 11:08 AM
EVen if he fulfills his best case scenario people in america wont consider hinm the leader of the team.

Remmeber he is a Jason Kidd type at best.

So 15 ppg, 12 apg, 5 rpg 2 spg dont cut it as a leaders stats in the eye of peple.

oh, I am only kidding man. And I would take Jason Kidd any day of the week from Rubio
Interesting you bring that up though. Let's say the Nets beat the Spurs in that finals. Who was the Nets leader?

Hawkeye15
08-06-2010, 11:09 AM
Absolutely not!

please tell me you are kidding

Hellcrooner
08-06-2010, 11:17 AM
oh, I am only kidding man. And I would take Jason Kidd any day of the week from Rubio
Interesting you bring that up though. Let's say the Nets beat the Spurs in that finals. Who was the Nets leader?

If you like basketball Kidd.

If you just like Youtube, Jefferson i guess, or Kenyon Martin

Hawkeye15
08-06-2010, 11:23 AM
If you like basketball Kidd.

If you just like Youtube, Jefferson i guess, or Kenyon Martin

good point.

LA-DYNASTY248
08-06-2010, 11:29 AM
Ricky Rubio will :)

Yeah some punk *** kid thats scared to come into the league and face real stars is gonna lead his team to a ship.... gtfoh!!! there are better pgs in spain let alone the nba!

And to answer the question. It will eventually happen but as of right now americans are to good!

Hawkeye15
08-06-2010, 11:51 AM
Yeah some punk *** kid thats scared to come into the league and face real stars is gonna lead his team to a ship.... gtfoh!!! there are better pgs in spain let alone the nba!

And to answer the question. It will eventually happen but as of right now americans are to good!

totally, cause its so rare for foreign prospects to be drafted then play overseas for a couple years...

Kakaroach
08-06-2010, 11:54 AM
Yes a European player can. I don't think it has anything to do with your ethnicity, its all your mindset.

Hellcrooner
08-06-2010, 12:30 PM
Yeah some punk *** kid thats scared to come into the league and face real stars is gonna lead his team to a ship.... gtfoh!!! there are better pgs in spain let alone the nba!

And to answer the question. It will eventually happen but as of right now americans are to good!

There are better Pgs than Rubio in spain?

Please enlighten me, im confused....

Hawkeye15
08-06-2010, 12:33 PM
Yes a European player can. I don't think it has anything to do with your ethnicity, its all your mindset.

love the Jefferson pic! good luck Al

LA-DYNASTY248
08-06-2010, 12:34 PM
totally, cause its so rare for foreign prospects to be drafted then play overseas for a couple years...

only ******* who can't handle the presure go over seas!
Look at john wall! Does he look scared?No he can't wait to become an elite player and try his best to become a champion one day.
Rubio might al well be playing in the d-league!

Hawkeye15
08-06-2010, 12:35 PM
only ******* who can't handle the presure go over seas!
Look at john wall! Does he look scared?No he can't wait to become an elite player and try his best to become a champion one day.
Rubio might al well be playing in the d-league!

wow

lakers4sho
08-06-2010, 12:41 PM
I think Drazen Petrovic could have.

And Dirk almost did in 06.

Certainly possible.

Hellcrooner
08-06-2010, 12:53 PM
only ******* who can't handle the presure go over seas!
Look at john wall! Does he look scared?No he can't wait to become an elite player and try his best to become a champion one day.
Rubio might al well be playing in the d-league!

BIll Lambieer wnet first overseas.

Danny Ferry too.

David robisnon stayed in the arym.

Larry bird stayed one more year on college after draft.

Manu Ginobili stayed abroad for a while.

Kirilenko tooo.

Kurt rambis was first overseas.

Pj Brown was first overseas.

And im sure im forgetting some more.

So please shut up.

Lebromer
08-06-2010, 01:06 PM
Gasol will be a leader in a couple of years

John Walls Era
08-06-2010, 01:22 PM
One could argue Hedo led the Magic to the finals (hit game winners and was arguably the leader of the team). Dirk led the Mavs to the finals, but came short. So certainly a Euro could get it done.



only ******* who can't handle the presure go over seas!
Look at john wall! Does he look scared?No he can't wait to become an elite player and try his best to become a champion one day.
Rubio might al well be playing in the d-league!

I'd be the first to say Rubio hasn't done anything yet in the NBA and hasn't proven anything... but this doesn't even make sense.

IB_Hyperizin'13
08-06-2010, 01:40 PM
only ******* who can't handle the presure go over seas!
Look at john wall! Does he look scared?No he can't wait to become an elite player and try his best to become a champion one day.
Rubio might al well be playing in the d-league!

This is pretty ignorant to say. There is def more money in playing overseas than playing in the d-league. It does suck that we've been waiting for this guy to come play and he keeps staying in Europe...I don't see why he would want to stay in Europe when he has such enticing contender such as the Kahn's T-Wolves to play for.

The Final Boss
08-06-2010, 01:51 PM
The Mavs have been trying to build around Dirk for years and have only been to the finals once and have crashed and burned in the first round in seasons where they should have been to at least the conference finals. The Cavs tried building around Big Z for a decade and failed. The Grizzlies gave up after a few years with Gasol and both the Knicks and Raptors have wasted high picks on European big men who have been unable to deliever.

I know the Mavs were close and could have won, and I think a European player could potentially lead an NBA team to a title, but it seems like as a first option, European players have done very well, but not quite well enough, and have served better as a second or third option (like Gasol, Manu, and Parker).


Thoughts?

:facepalm: Manu is from Argentina which is in South America thousands of miles away from Europe.

Hawkeye15
08-06-2010, 01:52 PM
:facepalm: Manu is from Argentina which is in South America thousands of miles away from Europe.

but he played his pro ball essentially in Europe

DoJoTheSlasher
08-06-2010, 02:28 PM
For people who never heard of Sabonis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdlB8tX75Mc
A center who could rebound, pass, shoot, make 3's, block, was a good defender, he could do everything, had a perfect FT% for a center.
He got in NBA in 31 years, far behind his prime and I think he could definetely lead a team to championship. He is best european basketball player ever and prolly the most talented center ever.


Uhh, Dirk begs to differ.

THE MTL
08-06-2010, 03:27 PM
If you can lead a team to the NBA Finals......you can lead a team to the title. Teams just dont make it through the entire playoffs on a fluke especially if u manage to go up 2-0 in the Finals!

The Final Boss
08-06-2010, 04:57 PM
but he played his pro ball essentially in Europe

He played his pro-ball essentially in San Antonio which is in the United States.

ink
08-06-2010, 05:02 PM
He's from Argentina but spent his basketball career in Italy which is European... In terms of basketball he's European.

haha. That statement would really go over well with his Argentinian national team!!

NYKalltheway
08-06-2010, 05:50 PM
For those who say Nowitzki is better than Sabonis was, you are either 12 years old or have no idea of who Sabonis is.

The top 3 European players OF ALL TIME, in order:
Arvydas Sabonis
Nick Galis
Drazen Petrovic

Dirk Nowitzki and Pau Gasol could eventually complete the Top Five(they have Kukoc & Divac among others), but till their career is over, they'll never beat these guys. 1st was a freak of nature(7ft3 center who could do everything), 2nd made an insignificant Greece basketball team count and even win over Sabonis and Petrovic by scoring 40-50 points, and the second was the best European player to come to the NBA in his prime. Those three would guarantee at least 1 NBA ring to their teams had they played in the NBA, or played more.

Dallas fans, I'm sorry to disappoint you, but Sabonis will never be dethroned from #1 European player ever ;)

jon32
08-06-2010, 06:01 PM
Absolutly ....Andrea Bargnani will this year......along with the entire european raptors

jon32
08-06-2010, 06:02 PM
yahhh i couldnt even hold a straight face with my last post.......**** no....doesnt seem to work thats for sure.

Avenged
08-06-2010, 06:15 PM
Tony Parker is the closest who comes to mind since he did win Finals MVP. Gasol also deserves consideration. There isn't a high percentage of European players leading teams to a title because there aren't many European players in the league as compared to Americans.

Hellcrooner
08-06-2010, 07:10 PM
For those who say Nowitzki is better than Sabonis was, you are either 12 years old or have no idea of who Sabonis is.

The top 3 European players OF ALL TIME, in order:
Arvydas Sabonis
Nick Galis
Drazen Petrovic

Dirk Nowitzki and Pau Gasol could eventually complete the Top Five(they have Kukoc & Divac among others), but till their career is over, they'll never beat these guys. 1st was a freak of nature(7ft3 center who could do everything), 2nd made an insignificant Greece basketball team count and even win over Sabonis and Petrovic by scoring 40-50 points, and the second was the best European player to come to the NBA in his prime. Those three would guarantee at least 1 NBA ring to their teams had they played in the NBA, or played more.

Dallas fans, I'm sorry to disappoint you, but Sabonis will never be dethroned from #1 European player ever ;)

got to disagree, Neither Sabs nor Petro did play a full healthy career in Nba so as NBA players stand

1 Pau

2 Dirk

3 Toni K

4 Parker

5 Divac

6 Sabonis

7 Dratzen.



if we are taking away all the Nba thing and add Fibas thing


1 DIno Meneghin

2 Pau Gasol

3 Sabonis

4 Petrovic

5 Gqllis.

6 Kukoc

7 Epi

8 Radja

9 Dalpaglic

10 Fassoulas.

I

AI4MVP
08-06-2010, 07:12 PM
the answer to the question in the thread title is yes. and the player will be ricky rubio

Giants-49ers-Ws
08-06-2010, 07:29 PM
kobe

he played high school ball in italy

lol

lakers4sho
08-06-2010, 07:34 PM
kobe

he played high school ball in italy

lol

I hope you weren't being serious.

djlamer
08-06-2010, 11:04 PM
maybe in the future, but right now its highly unlikely, the odds are just stacked against them. dirk is essentially european leading a contender team. so thats a 1 in 30 chance of him doing it. well, 1 in 15 if you count tony p as leading the spurs now that timmy d is a dinosaur. on the other hand you have a 28/30 chance that an american will do it. well, 27/30 since the rockets have yao leading them.

lakers4sho
08-06-2010, 11:13 PM
maybe in the future, but right now its highly unlikely, the odds are just stacked against them. dirk is essentially european leading a contender team. so thats a 1 in 30 chance of him doing it. well, 1 in 15 if you count tony p as leading the spurs now that timmy d is a dinosaur. on the other hand you have a 28/30 chance that an american will do it. well, 27/30 since the rockets have yao leading them.

Those probabilities are wayy off the mark.

So you're basically saying that the Mavs and the Clippers have the same chances of winning it all? :eyebrow:

ALL_i-Do_is-Win
08-06-2010, 11:22 PM
Dirk? he can carry a team as good as anyone
he may not have the d but his o is nasty

tony parker won finals mvp

koreancabbage
08-07-2010, 12:15 AM
eventually. the european and world game is transforming rapidly. Nowitzki is a trailblazer of sorts as being the first dominant go-to european player. i don't think he'll ever "lead" his team to a championship cuz he plays a position where he doesn't have the ball most of the time. The ball is usually in a SG or PG's hand most of the time.

I can see Europeans/World players getting tougher over the next decade in terms of development and being gritty and using their athleticism.

ink
08-07-2010, 12:47 AM
Absolutly ....Andrea Bargnani will this year......along with the entire european raptors

Feel free to name the European Raptors.

I have 3 out of 12, and 4 out of 15 including everyone. How many do you have???

Here's an idea: let's drop the prejudice and make sure you have your facts straight.

GoatMilk
08-07-2010, 02:18 AM
i dont even look at Dirk as a Euro anymore

been here forever, been a great player, speaks perfect English

i hate these threads
yes they can lead a team to a title. Dirk came so close. they didnt win, but it wasnt directly on him.

and like you guys said, Parker won MVP

Pau Gasol isnt the Lakers leader, Kobe is and FIsher is probably 2nd, but without Pau they dont win. everyone in the Lakers org says so