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scutch11
08-05-2010, 01:57 PM
i thought this was a really interesting read because t-mac is now looked back on as such a loser, but people forget just how awful his supporting casts witht he magic were. really makes you feel bad for him other than that one season where he wasnt going all out

http://www.magicbasketball.net/2010/08/04/the-tracy-mcgrady-manifesto/

Hawkeye15
08-05-2010, 01:59 PM
oh god, Chronz is going to type a Daniel Steele novel in here dude. Why did you start another TMac thread?

Hustlenomics
08-05-2010, 01:59 PM
inb4 chronz makes excuses for T-Mac

Hawkeye15
08-05-2010, 02:02 PM
inb4 chronz makes excuses for T-Mac

its not excuses. McGrady was easily a top 3 player for a few years, and his career is hard for the average fan to define because of circumstances. TMac was totally awesome for a number of years, and its just too bad the stars didn't align to give him the right situational teammates at the right time.
How do you think championships are won? Do you really think you just get a top 5 player, then surround them with role players, a coach, a playbook, and let it grow? No. Each one is so difficult to win, due to EVERYTHING having to go right. It just never did for Tracy

Hustlenomics
08-05-2010, 02:05 PM
its not excuses. McGrady was easily a top 3 player for a few years, and his career is hard for the average fan to define because of circumstances. TMac was totally awesome for a number of years, and its just too bad the stars didn't align to give him the right situational teammates at the right time.
How do you think championships are won? Do you really think you just get a top 5 player, then surround them with role players, a coach, a playbook, and let it grow? No. Each one is so difficult to win, due to EVERYTHING having to go right. It just never did for Tracy

sure he was a great scorer..but damn he couldnt even make it past the first round and had a good lead on detroit

Avenged
08-05-2010, 02:07 PM
:laugh2: seems like there's always the thread about McGrady pointing out the same thing.

Hawkeye15
08-05-2010, 02:07 PM
sure he was a great scorer..but damn he couldnt even make it past the first round and had a good lead on detroit

I will let chronz deal with you. McGrady was possibly the best all around player for a few years. And his first few in Houston, he was also a dominant force on both ends. Have fun

S-Dot
08-05-2010, 02:09 PM
sure he was a great scorer..but damn he couldnt even make it past the first round and had a good lead on detroit

Detroit was a better team. Better teams usually beat better players. The same happened to Kobe in 2006. Kobe was the best player in that series, but Phoenix had a better team. The only recent exception I can think of is LeBron vs. Detroit in 2007.

I really hope T-Mac isn;t remembered by the playoff exits, injuries, and inability to find a team nowadays. he played tremendous in the playoffs, and was one of the top 3 players in the league for a few years. A unique talent.

Chronz
08-05-2010, 02:14 PM
oh god, Chronz is going to type a Daniel Steele novel in here dude. Why did you start another TMac thread?
Nah the link spent enough time covering the basics.

Post All-Star #'s (30Games) to will his team to the playoffs over Michael Jordan.
.461 FG%
.404 3P%
34.5 - 6.5 - 6.3

Most beautiful stretch of basketball Ive ever witnessed this decade. Given the entirety of that season it ranks up there with the very best. That was Mac before the severe back problems

Chronz
08-05-2010, 02:15 PM
sure he was a great scorer..but damn he couldnt even make it past the first round and had a good lead on detroit
So in your opinion, you would have held him in higher regard if he just sucked and got swept?

Russell_Roberts
08-05-2010, 02:17 PM
t-mac needs to hang it up.. too injured.. then he would want to sit out some games due to injuries n such

0nekhmer
08-05-2010, 02:18 PM
marbury, steve francis, allen iverson. the list goes on friend

Russell_Roberts
08-05-2010, 02:19 PM
sure he was a great scorer..but damn he couldnt even make it past the first round and had a good lead on detroit

he got injured... againist detroit

John Walls Era
08-05-2010, 02:20 PM
Tmac was dominant and was often regarded as the second best SG and a top 5 player during his prime. He even has good numbers in the playoffs. Its just too bad his failure of making past the first round is the thing people remember about him the most.

Celtic AL
08-05-2010, 02:20 PM
did Tmac Sign yet? LOL

NYKalltheway
08-05-2010, 02:22 PM
Tracy McGrady
Shaquille O'Neal
Tim Duncan

In that order. Best players from 2000-3 at least. Tmac was di man!

Kashmir13579
08-05-2010, 02:25 PM
in his prime he was better than kobe. i've been a firm believer of that for a long time.

scutch11
08-05-2010, 02:27 PM
marbury, steve francis, allen iverson. the list goes on friend

i actually think marbury was just a selfish loser who didnt make his teammates better, but hey im a knick fan so maybe im biased :D

Da Knicks
08-05-2010, 02:33 PM
T-mac was the best player in the nba for a good two years then the back thing happend but the dude was a beast. He never was around a team good enough to help him while he was still healthy and probably was the reason Lebron chose to go to miami after witnessing what is going on with T-mac now a days.

mikealike305
08-05-2010, 02:36 PM
t-mac prime = monster

CityofTreez
08-05-2010, 02:48 PM
was a long time ago

Hustlenomics
08-05-2010, 04:56 PM
So in your opinion, you would have held him in higher regard if he just sucked and got swept?

if he got sucked and got swept that would ruin his legacy even more

Hustlenomics
08-05-2010, 04:57 PM
even lebron and iverson made it to the finals with garbage supporting cast and tmac hasnt even made it out the first round yet ..even with a yao ming!

JordansBulls
08-05-2010, 05:02 PM
Tracy McGrady
Shaquille O'Neal
Tim Duncan

In that order. Best players from 2000-3 at least. Tmac was di man!

Mcgrady was not better than Shaq or Duncan from 2000-2003?

2000- Shaq, Duncan
2001 - Shaq, Duncan
2002 - Shaq, Duncan
2003 - Duncan and then maybe Mcgrady

SouthSideRookie
08-05-2010, 05:04 PM
its not excuses. McGrady was easily a top 3 player for a few years, and his career is hard for the average fan to define because of circumstances. TMac was totally awesome for a number of years, and its just too bad the stars didn't align to give him the right situational teammates at the right time.
How do you think championships are won? Do you really think you just get a top 5 player, then surround them with role players, a coach, a playbook, and let it grow? No. Each one is so difficult to win, due to EVERYTHING having to go right. It just never did for Tracy

Exactly, which is the reason why I dont get all these people who think Lebron is now gonna suddenly win like 6 or 7 rings !

MaHaRaJaH
08-05-2010, 05:11 PM
oh god, Chronz is going to type a Daniel Steele novel in here dude. Why did you start another TMac thread?

Lmfao !!! ahhaahahahhaah

Because he wants to see Chronz take a giant shhhhhhhhhhiiiiiiitttttt on everybody.

b0nk
08-05-2010, 05:16 PM
who cares. its 2010, and right now he sucks

Chronz
08-05-2010, 05:43 PM
if he got sucked and got swept that would ruin his legacy even more
So then why are you holding it against him for defying the odds and stretching what should have been a sweep or 5 games series to 7? Do you have any idea what it took to go up 3-1? How many players do you see have perform to such a degree every game just to win? The fact that he pushed them to the limit was impressive on its own, even Kobe wasnt as impressive in his 3-1 against all odds-let down.


even lebron and iverson made it to the finals with garbage supporting cast and tmac hasnt even made it out the first round yet ..even with a yao ming!
Ive gone over this far too many times to bring it up now, just know your way of thinking is too simplistic. There are various elements (Strength of Opposition, Teammates and Individual Contributions) to consider, when you do this you understand a players career completely. Facts are AI made it to the Finals with The BEST Supporting cast of any star player in his conference. When Tmac was at his peak Yao wasnt the Yao your thinking of, besides they lost their starting and backup PF when they faced Dallas. I dont care if Yao is better than anyone AI played with, in the West your getting killed with a D-League starter in your lineup.

IversonIsKrazy
08-05-2010, 06:22 PM
Tmac's prime was from 2000 - 05. He was never the best player in the league

2000: Shaq
2001: Iverson
2002: Shaq
2003: Duncan
2004: Kobe
2005: Kobe

He WAS good. Real good. He is often over-looked by the fact that the never made the first-round of playoffs, but it's not like he underachieves during. He was a monster during those 5 years, in season and playoffs, but his surroundings was always injured. Grant Hill is a career of injuries, and I believe Mike Miller was injured often too. And once the back problems started, Tmac just started sucking. Although in 2007, he lost first-round with home-court while shooting under 40% from the field, and that was the one year he had the better team, but still lost.
But overall, his prime performance will always be overlooked because he never got out of the first round.

O and AI in prime > Tmac in prime :D

Hustlenomics
08-05-2010, 06:38 PM
So then why are you holding it against him for defying the odds and stretching what should have been a sweep or 5 games series to 7? Do you have any idea what it took to go up 3-1? How many players do you see have perform to such a degree every game just to win? The fact that he pushed them to the limit was impressive on its own, even Kobe wasnt as impressive in his 3-1 against all odds-let down.


Ive gone over this far too many times to bring it up now, just know your way of thinking is too simplistic. There are various elements (Strength of Opposition, Teammates and Individual Contributions) to consider, when you do this you understand a players career completely. Facts are AI made it to the Finals with The BEST Supporting cast of any star player in his conference. When Tmac was at his peak Yao wasnt the Yao your thinking of, besides they lost their starting and backup PF when they faced Dallas. I dont care if Yao is better than anyone AI played with, in the West your getting killed with a D-League starter in your lineup.

yea cuz tyrone hill, george lynch,eric snow,matt geiger, todd MacCulloch,aaron mckie, kevin ollie, mutumbo is the best supporting cast ever! lol
and yea it sure takes alot to get out the first round iverson only did it with weak supporting casts throughout his career same with lebron and t-mac wasn't doin **** but not making it or gettin knocked out early

Khalifa21
08-05-2010, 07:18 PM
When T-Mac was in his prime... T-Mac > Kobe.

NYtilIdie
08-05-2010, 07:39 PM
yea cuz tyrone hill, george lynch,eric snow,matt geiger, todd MacCulloch,aaron mckie, kevin ollie, mutumbo is the best supporting cast ever! lol
and yea it sure takes alot to get out the first round iverson only did it with weak supporting casts throughout his career same with lebron and t-mac wasn't doin **** but not making it or gettin knocked out early

Thats actually a good defensive squad, but its only considered a sh***y supporting cast in your opinion because nobody else is a scorer outside of Iverson. For christ sakes Mutumbo was averaging 2 blocks per game while Ratliff was averaging 3.

I feel like a broken record everytime we have a T-Mac thread. Then we always get some ignorant poster who claims T-Mac is a loser completely ignoring his supporting cast. Tell me how this roster is any better,

2000-01 Orlando Magic:
2 Cory Alexander G
13 John Amaechi C-F
10 Darrell Armstrong G
7 Dee Brown G 6-1 160
55 Andrew DeClercq F-C
51 Michael Doleac C
8 Pat Garrity F
33 Grant Hill F
1 Tracy McGrady F
50 Mike Miller F
45 Bo Outlaw F
2 Elliot Perry G
52 Don Reid F
26 James Robinson G
3 Monty Williams

This team was so bad T-Mac led his team in rebounding and blocks. Now remember Grant Hill only played 4 games that year so T-Mac's 2nd best player was a 32 year old Darrell Armstrong. Now tell me do you honestly expect this team to beat a prime Ray Allen, Sam Cassell and Glenn Robinson? You had both Ray and Glenn averaging 22 PPG while T-Mac averaged 27 PPG and his 2nd best player, Armstrong averaged 16.


Tmac's prime was from 2000 - 05. He was never the best player in the league

2000: Shaq
2001: Iverson
2002: Shaq
2003: Duncan
2004: Kobe
2005: Kobe

He WAS good. Real good. He is often over-looked by the fact that the never made the first-round of playoffs, but it's not like he underachieves during. He was a monster during those 5 years, in season and playoffs, but his surroundings was always injured. Grant Hill is a career of injuries, and I believe Mike Miller was injured often too. And once the back problems started, Tmac just started sucking. Although in 2007, he lost first-round with home-court while shooting under 40% from the field, and that was the one year he had the better team, but still lost.
But overall, his prime performance will always be overlooked because he never got out of the first round.

O and AI in prime > Tmac in prime :D

You know in your heart, that is a lie :)

Hustlenomics
08-05-2010, 07:47 PM
Thats actually a good defensive squad, but its only considered a ********y in your opinion because nobody else is a scorer outside of Iverson.



You know in your heart, that is a lie :)

lmfaooooo ..it's considered ****** cuz that team SUCKED outside of iverson and mutumbo you give that supporting cast to tmac and kobe they aint goin no where ..just like in 06 when kobe was the main scorer on the team he was losin first round

NYtilIdie
08-05-2010, 08:16 PM
lmfaooooo ..it's considered ****** cuz that team SUCKED outside of iverson and mutumbo you give that supporting cast to tmac and kobe they aint goin no where ..just like in 06 when kobe was the main scorer on the team he was losin first round

You honestly can't compare that squad to the 06' Lakers, they had Smush Parker and Kwame Brown starting so yeah, just stop with that comparison. You seem to forget that Eric Snow was a good defender back then and he had Mckie who was shooting 47% from the field, want me to get deeper?

Mckie had a effective FG of 51% and a TS% of 55%, a PER of 15.1% his 2nd highest in his career and 13 PPG PER 36.

That team isn't really as bad as you're saying it is if you take a deeper look.

Chronz
08-05-2010, 08:26 PM
yea cuz tyrone hill, george lynch,eric snow,matt geiger, todd MacCulloch,aaron mckie, kevin ollie, mutumbo is the best supporting cast ever! lol
and yea it sure takes alot to get out the first round iverson only did it with weak supporting casts throughout his career same with lebron and t-mac wasn't doin **** but not making it or gettin knocked out early

First sign of defeat, when you exaggerate claims that I made, even though I offered SPECIFIC claims.
Id say expand your knowledge of the game or something typical right now but at this point I think asking for any sort of research from you might be a stretch.

Chronz
08-05-2010, 08:30 PM
lmfaooooo ..it's considered ****** cuz that team SUCKED outside of iverson and mutumbo you give that supporting cast to tmac and kobe they aint goin no where ..just like in 06 when kobe was the main scorer on the team he was losin first round
How old are you? Your comparison skills are severely lacking. Kobe didnt have the best defensive support behind him. This is how we can tell you dont know what your talking about, you fail to recognize a players defensive worth, its why you think they are garbage when in reality they have real defensive value.

Hustlenomics
08-05-2010, 08:48 PM
How old are you? Your comparison skills are severely lacking. Kobe didnt have the best defensive support behind him. This is how we can tell you dont know what your talking about, you fail to recognize a players defensive worth, its why you think they are garbage when in reality they have real defensive value.

so T-mac gets a pass for never winning but when Iverson fails its throw stones at him even though he's accomplished more than tmac LOL and if Iverson's supporting cast was so damn good how come their careers without him havent been *****? he doesn't get credit for making mckie into the 6th man of the year? or carrying the offensive load consistently while being the only option?

cmellofan15
08-05-2010, 08:52 PM
AI in his prime was 6'0"

IversonIsKrazy
08-05-2010, 09:03 PM
I'm not going to start an AI VS Tmac thread NYtillIdie lol, but I do very much believe that AI in his prime was better than TMac in his prime.

In 2001 Finals, AI did so much for Philly, no doubt they had a strong defensive squad, but imagine have Darrick Coleman or Aaron McKie as your second scorer... After game 1 of the Finals, ppl ACTUALLY BELIEVED THAT philly can make the upset over Lakers, thanks to the heart of AI. The heart of AI will never ever be seen again, or ever come close to seeing.

NYtilIdie
08-05-2010, 09:14 PM
so T-mac gets a pass for never winning but when Iverson fails its throw stones at him even though he's accomplished more than tmac LOL and if Iverson's supporting cast was so damn good how come their careers without him havent been *****? he doesn't get credit for making mckie into the 6th man of the year? or carrying the offensive load consistently while being the only option?

Nobody said A.I. fails, you said that yourself, you brough A.I. in this conversation.

If A.I. had the 6th man of the Year on his team I wouldn't say he was the only option on offense. Thats because A.I. didn't score all those baskets for Mckie, plus if you want to say everybodys career on that team was s**t without A.I. then what do you say about Mckie? His production decreased after the 01-02 season while A.I. was still on the team so is that A.I.'s fault?

I never said T-Mac gets a pass, im just defending him when people like you who have no idea what they're talking about call him a loser when you know damn well the man did all he could to get his team out of the 1st round. Like I said before, a star player can only do so much before he needs help from his teammates, see Kobe in 07' playoffs.

Hustlenomics
08-05-2010, 09:26 PM
Nobody said A.I. fails, you said that yourself, you brough A.I. in this conversation.
chronz always does.



I never said T-Mac gets a pass, im just defending him when people like you who have no idea what they're talking about call him a loser when you know damn well the man did all he could to get his team out of the 1st round. Like I said before, a star player can only do so much before he needs help from his teammates, see Kobe in 07' playoffs.

lmfaoooo i always watched him play since he was on the magic so I ain't makin **** up about him and im not a tmac hater it just baffles me when Chronz would defend T-mac to the death but throw Iverson under the bus when Iverson has accomplished much more in his career..and if the eastern conference was so weak then T-mac should have made it out the first round at least once(the east being weak is an excuse some ppl make to discredit iverson's playoff run LOL)

Hustlenomics
08-05-2010, 09:27 PM
I'm not going to start an AI VS Tmac thread NYtillIdie lol, but I do very much believe that AI in his prime was better than TMac in his prime.

In 2001 Finals, AI did so much for Philly, no doubt they had a strong defensive squad, but imagine have Darrick Coleman or Aaron McKie as your second scorer... After game 1 of the Finals, ppl ACTUALLY BELIEVED THAT philly can make the upset over Lakers, thanks to the heart of AI. The heart of AI will never ever be seen again, or ever come close to seeing.

well obviously :cool:

Hawkeye15
08-05-2010, 09:59 PM
Tmac's prime was from 2000 - 05. He was never the best player in the league

2000: Shaq
2001: Iverson
2002: Shaq
2003: Duncan
2004: Kobe
2005: Kobe

He WAS good. Real good. He is often over-looked by the fact that the never made the first-round of playoffs, but it's not like he underachieves during. He was a monster during those 5 years, in season and playoffs, but his surroundings was always injured. Grant Hill is a career of injuries, and I believe Mike Miller was injured often too. And once the back problems started, Tmac just started sucking. Although in 2007, he lost first-round with home-court while shooting under 40% from the field, and that was the one year he had the better team, but still lost.
But overall, his prime performance will always be overlooked because he never got out of the first round.

O and AI in prime > Tmac in prime :D

do you actually think Allen Iverson in his prime was better than Tracy McGrady?

prash
08-05-2010, 10:15 PM
I hate Kobe, but I'm a huge AI fan and a huge T-Mac fan.

If we're talking about players at their prime since 2000. I'd take T-Mac over every other wing player this decade except for LeBron. And even LeBron at his prime vs. T-Mac at his could be debated statistically speaking.

Last I checked T-Mac is the only player to avg 30+ points and fewer than 2.9 to's per game in the last 10 years.

Scoring and passing at the rate he did without turning the ball over is the biggest reason I`d take him over just about every other wing player this decade.

While averaging 30ppg Iverson regularly turned the ball over more than 4x per game. When Wade, LeBron, Kobe and Durant averaged 30 points they all turned it over at least 3x per game. Arenas never surpassed 30ppg but when he came close he avg`d 3.7 to`s .

spreadeagle
08-05-2010, 11:00 PM
Feel bad for him? bahahahahahhaha.He could have stayed in Toronto with Vince Carter n been HUGE.but he wanted to be "the man" and never did anything.I love how the one yr he doesnt play the Rockets make it to the second round.Hes a muti millionaire who probably has a great life.I dont feel bad for him

spreadeagle
08-05-2010, 11:05 PM
in his prime he was better than kobe. i've been a firm believer of that for a long time.

In all my years on psd this is one on the craziest things ive ever heard my man.Kobe is a WINNER and a CHAMP. T mac couldnt even get to the second round and he had an allstar in Yao with him

Hawkeye15
08-05-2010, 11:27 PM
In all my years on psd this is one on the craziest things ive ever heard my man.Kobe is a WINNER and a CHAMP. T mac couldnt even get to the second round and he had an allstar in Yao with him

please give us evidence on why Kobe was better from 2000-2004, and especially how he was better in 2002-03'

GSW 2013 CHAMPS
08-06-2010, 02:17 AM
If TMac never got the severe injuries that he got... he definitely would have been better than Kobe. But who the hell cares, why should we debate about something that will never happen. TMac should just get used to being a bench player... for his own good.

_KB24_
08-06-2010, 04:20 AM
please give us evidence on why Kobe was better from 2000-2004, and especially how he was better in 2002-03'

I am the first to admit that earlier in the decade, I had Kobe and T-MAC on a virtual par. They were nearly identical in each aspect of the game. Their stats are virtually the same throughout and the most common argument you'll hear is that Kobe was winning while McGrady was getting early round exits whether it was his fault or not. Their stats from 2002-'03 are virtually IDENTICAL.

BrotherRedz
08-06-2010, 04:30 AM
Prime Arenas > Prime Tmac

LOL

Hawkeye15
08-06-2010, 08:06 AM
I am the first to admit that earlier in the decade, I had Kobe and T-MAC on a virtual par. They were nearly identical in each aspect of the game. Their stats are virtually the same throughout and the most common argument you'll hear is that Kobe was winning while McGrady was getting early round exits whether it was his fault or not. Their stats from 2002-'03 are virtually IDENTICAL.

here are their years, statistically in 02-03'
Kobe
PER- 26.2
TS%- 55%
Rebound rate- 9.3%
Ast%- 27.2%
Block%- 1.4%
Steal%- 2.8%
Usage- 32.7%
Offrtg- 111
Dffrtg- 103
Offensive win shares- 11
Defensive win shares- 4

McGrady
PER- 30.3 (led the league, higher than Kobe has ever gotten by 2 pts)
TS%- 56.4%
Rebound rate- 9.5%
Ast%= 30%
Blk%- 1.5%
Steal%- 2.2%
Usage- 35% (led league)
Offrtg- 116
Dffrtg- 104
Offensive win shares- 13.2 (led league)
Defensive win shares- 2.9

Similar. McGrady was clearly better offensively, and was asked to do more for his team to succeed. This is reflected in his higher PER, meaning he was asked to create more of his own shots. He also was asked to handle the ball more, and distribute more. Their defense was very similar. So for me, McGrady's better offense and bigger role, gave him the better year.
This is one year mind you. TMac had a stretch of 3-4 years in the first part of the decade where he was easily a top 3 player. But Kobe's playoff success and sustained dominance of play totally seperates them

JordansBulls
08-06-2010, 02:01 PM
Prime Arenas > Prime Tmac

LOL

You have got to be kidding me?

DoubleDragon
08-06-2010, 02:12 PM
in his prime he was better than kobe. i've been a firm believer of that for a long time.

:faint:

GodsSon
08-06-2010, 02:26 PM
As much as I hate T-Mac and have argued persistently with Chronz over the issue, I will admit that from the 2002 to 2004 (both seasons), he was the best player in the L...too bad he's such a little ***** though lol

Chronz
08-06-2010, 03:12 PM
so T-mac gets a pass for never winning but when Iverson fails its throw stones at him even though he's accomplished more than tmac LOL and if Iverson's supporting cast was so damn good how come their careers without him havent been *****? he doesn't get credit for making mckie into the 6th man of the year? or carrying the offensive load consistently while being the only option?
Im NOT comparing AI to Tmac. YOU were the one who brought them up in a simplistic comparison remember. This failed attempt to compare the support and competition began here: http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14461145&postcount=23

Is it coming back yet?

Im simply refuting your claims with quantifiable evidence. How does AI make Mckie 6th man of the year, by playing with Eric Snow forcing him to the bench? Besides do you really want to argue the point that offensive players thrived alongside a young AI? Uhhh how old were you when the decade began?


In all my years on psd this is one on the craziest things ive ever heard my man.Kobe is a WINNER and a CHAMP. T mac couldnt even get to the second round and he had an allstar in Yao with him
This really cant be the first time youve heard this, in all your years? The only conclusion I can draw is that youve ignored the comparisons board or suffer long term memory loss.


I am the first to admit that earlier in the decade, I had Kobe and T-MAC on a virtual par. They were nearly identical in each aspect of the game. Their stats are virtually the same throughout and the most common argument you'll hear is that Kobe was winning while McGrady was getting early round exits whether it was his fault or not. Their stats from 2002-'03 are virtually IDENTICAL.
Prove how they are identical.

Hawkeye15
08-06-2010, 03:19 PM
I already proved above they weren't. McGrady was better from 2000-2004 than Kobe was. And the difference was obvious in 2002-03'

Chronz
08-06-2010, 03:28 PM
As much as I hate T-Mac and have argued persistently with Chronz over the issue, I will admit that from the 2002 to 2004 (both seasons), he was the best player in the L...too bad he's such a little ***** though lol
I dont think Ive ever made that claim
Best wing player yes, 2003 was the sole year he had a shot at possible top dog but his team was so wretched that most of the core players soon retired or never cracked a solid rotation on another team again. It doesnt matter how good 1 player may be, if you have D-Leaguers playing quality minutes your not going to have the team success required for individual praise. We all know it exists yet nobody wants to stop citing something so obviously out of his control as the sole factor to why he wasnt as good as he looked.

And 2005 was Tmacs best playoff series, looking back that series epitomized his career. The star with a squad thats severely undermanned (their top 2 PF were out vs Dirk), outgunned (This was a STACKED Mavs team), and the losses were controversial (Donaghy scandal) and yet despite it all the series went 7. The reason, Tmac was brilliant, Dirk was choking. In the end the superstar didnt even have to play great for his teammates to carry him past a man who was playing possessed. But hey history is filled with these examples, yet we still want to attribute team success to 1 man.

SouthSideRookie
08-06-2010, 03:57 PM
Guys as a Rocket fan I can say that Tmac in my opinion was on par with Kobe for a few seasons. For whatever reason he just never was able to get out of the first round, was it because he was not a player who could take his team to the next level, we will never know, but Tmac would do some amazing things in the basketball court and it hurt me alot to see the injuries really criple his carrer because I really think he would of become one of the best, and sometimes he caught alot of slack because of his passive demeanor but if you never really followed him or the team he played for you never saw how bad he really wanted to win. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PofsN2LgH0I

nanablvd
08-06-2010, 04:08 PM
that's why players value so much about ending their careers in good notes.

truplayer199
08-06-2010, 04:23 PM
I will let chronz deal with you. McGrady was possibly the best all around player for a few years. And his first few in Houston, he was also a dominant force on both ends. Have fun

T-mac defense has been horrible throughout his career, what are you talking about? I agree he was easily top 3 on the offensive side at some point.

truplayer199
08-06-2010, 04:26 PM
Tracy McGrady
Shaquille O'Neal
Tim Duncan

In that order. Best players from 2000-3 at least. Tmac was di man!

You're crazy to put T-mac ahead of those two players.

Hustlenomics
08-06-2010, 04:29 PM
Im NOT comparing AI to Tmac. YOU were the one who brought them up in a simplistic comparison remember. This failed attempt to compare the support and competition began here: http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14461145&postcount=23

Is it coming back yet?

Im simply refuting your claims with quantifiable evidence. How does AI make Mckie 6th man of the year, by playing with Eric Snow forcing him to the bench? Besides do you really want to argue the point that offensive players thrived alongside a young AI? Uhhh how old were you when the decade began?



Ai's hustle and determination and hard play spreaded like germs on the whole team and made those scrubs play better..after philly aaron mckie wasn't good and I been watching iverson for a long time so i don't see what your tryna say lol either way T-mac couldnt carry his team like other superstars did


T-mac defense has been horrible throughout his career, what are you talking about? I agree he was easily top 3 on the offensive side at some point.
:facepalm:

Shammyguy3
08-06-2010, 04:30 PM
McGrady is easily one of the most overrated players of all time. Right behind Allen Iverson.

Hawkeye15
08-06-2010, 04:31 PM
You're crazy to put T-mac ahead of those two players.

while its not crazy, I personally would put them in this order
Shaq/Duncan/McGrady

TMac was probably the best perimeter player in the NBA over those years, but those were also the two big mens prime years.
Although, look at Timmys stats. Does he even have a prime year? Its like a straight line of efficiency

Hawkeye15
08-06-2010, 04:32 PM
Ai's hustle and determination and hard play spreaded like germs on the whole team and made those scrubs play better..after philly aaron mckie wasn't good and I been watching iverson for a long time so i don't see what your tryna say lol either way T-mac couldnt carry his team like other superstars did


:facepalm:

how exactly did Iverson carry the Sixers? If anything it was the other way around man. Iverson was a really good player. But he played in the weak east, had the sixth man of the year, two bigs controlling the paint, gritty defenders surrounding him to cover his *** up, and he just shot away.

truplayer199
08-06-2010, 04:36 PM
here are their years, statistically in 02-03'
Kobe
PER- 26.2
TS%- 55%
Rebound rate- 9.3%
Ast%- 27.2%
Block%- 1.4%
Steal%- 2.8%
Usage- 32.7%
Offrtg- 111
Dffrtg- 103
Offensive win shares- 11
Defensive win shares- 4

McGrady
PER- 30.3 (led the league, higher than Kobe has ever gotten by 2 pts)
TS%- 56.4%
Rebound rate- 9.5%
Ast%= 30%
Blk%- 1.5%
Steal%- 2.2%
Usage- 35% (led league)
Offrtg- 116
Dffrtg- 104
Offensive win shares- 13.2 (led league)
Defensive win shares- 2.9

Similar. McGrady was clearly better offensively, and was asked to do more for his team to succeed. This is reflected in his higher PER, meaning he was asked to create more of his own shots. He also was asked to handle the ball more, and distribute more. Their defense was very similar. So for me, McGrady's better offense and bigger role, gave him the better year.
This is one year mind you. TMac had a stretch of 3-4 years in the first part of the decade where he was easily a top 3 player. But Kobe's playoff success and sustained dominance of play totally seperates them

Its debatable on who was better offensively at the time, but how can you make the assertion that "T-mac were clearly better offensively" when T-mac's numbers are marginally better?

Hustlenomics
08-06-2010, 04:38 PM
how exactly did Iverson carry the Sixers? If anything it was the other way around man. Iverson was a really good player. But he played in the weak east, had the sixth man of the year, two bigs controlling the paint, gritty defenders surrounding him to cover his *** up, and he just shot away.

because he did damn near everything for that team and he lead the league in steals more than once ..does that happen by standing around? or by going into passing lanes and hustling for the ball? oh yea he played in the weak east that tmac couldnt even get out of the first round in lmao and led the league in scoring multiple times ..when iverson DIDNT play for them they couldnt even win a game

SouthSideRookie
08-06-2010, 04:42 PM
T-mac defense has been horrible throughout his career, what are you talking about? I agree he was easily top 3 on the offensive side at some point.

You're way off in saying Mcgrady was horrible defensively, about being overrated, I dont consider someone being overrated if they were hampered by injuries.

uptownfan
08-06-2010, 04:42 PM
McGrady was so fun to watch back in his prime. It's so weird to think about how big of a fall from glory he had. I remember everyone had the T-Mac 2's. Those were sick.

Now nobody wants to hear anything about him

Hawkeye15
08-06-2010, 04:43 PM
Its debatable on who was better offensively at the time, but how can you make the assertion that "T-mac were clearly better offensively" when T-mac's numbers are marginally better?

you are not factoring in how each was used, and their rosters. TMac was marginally more efficient with way more attention, and was also given a bigger role. Shoot, the entire roll. His PER reflects that he had to create his own shots at a higher rate than Kobe did, yet his TS% was still higher. He was used as a facilitator off the dribble, and had nothing down low to absorb penetration.
TMac was the best offensive wing in the NBA in 2002-03, and it was by a decent margin.

Hawkeye15
08-06-2010, 04:44 PM
because he did damn near everything for that team and he lead the league in steals more than once ..does that happen by standing around? or by going into passing lanes and hustling for the ball? oh yea he played in the weak east that tmac couldnt even get out of the first round in lmao and led the league in scoring multiple times ..when iverson DIDNT play for them they couldnt even win a game

leading the league in steals is a reflection of gambling, not man to man defense. Iverson routinely was beat by his man, and melted like butter when his man got him in the lane. Fortunately, Deke and Theo were there to handle his mistake.
You are severely underrating Iverson's roster.

Kashmir13579
08-06-2010, 04:48 PM
how exactly did Iverson carry the Sixers? If anything it was the other way around man. Iverson was a really good player. But he played in the weak east, had the sixth man of the year, two bigs controlling the paint, gritty defenders surrounding him to cover his *** up, and he just shot away.

agreed, and he had larry brown. but....... he did take his team to the finals. nobody would even remember or care but he went crazy in one of the games and put on one of the best single game finals performances ever. i don't think anyone could argue that iverson wasnt an amazing talent. however, we've seen over the years that he cannot carry a terrible team to the playoffs like t-mac did in orlando. they're both scrubs now a day; but boy were they exciting to watch in their prime.

Hustlenomics
08-06-2010, 04:49 PM
leading the league in steals is a reflection of gambling, not man to man defense. Iverson routinely was beat by his man, and melted like butter when his man got him in the lane. Fortunately, Deke and Theo were there to handle his mistake.
You are severely underrating Iverson's roster.

oh yea because he only got steals gambling and not picking pockets or hustling for loose balls lmao he didn't get beat by his man all the time which is wat most haters like to say nowadays and you are overrating a 35 year old mutumbo if anything you put that supporting cast behind tmac or kobe yall would complain how they didnt have help and more damn excuses

Kashmir13579
08-06-2010, 04:49 PM
McGrady was so fun to watch back in his prime. It's so weird to think about how big of a fall from glory he had. I remember everyone had the T-Mac 2's. Those were sick.

Now nobody wants to hear anything about him

how quickly we forget... its sad really.

truplayer199
08-06-2010, 04:50 PM
You're way off in saying Mcgrady was horrible defensively, about being overrated, I dont consider someone being overrated if they were hampered by injuries.

Since when T-mac is known to play any defense? What has he achieved on the defensive side? Has he ever made a defensive team? Has he ever lead the league in steals? T-mac was never a good defender at any point. I don't know what some of you guys were seeing.

truplayer199
08-06-2010, 04:52 PM
Ai's hustle and determination and hard play spreaded like germs on the whole team and made those scrubs play better..after philly aaron mckie wasn't good and I been watching iverson for a long time so i don't see what your tryna say lol either way T-mac couldnt carry his team like other superstars did


:facepalm:

Why are you covering your face? Do you know anything about good defense?

truplayer199
08-06-2010, 04:54 PM
leading the league in steals is a reflection of gambling, not man to man defense. Iverson routinely was beat by his man, and melted like butter when his man got him in the lane. Fortunately, Deke and Theo were there to handle his mistake.
You are severely underrating Iverson's roster.

At least Iverson have something to show for playing defense. Not that i'm saying that Iverson was a good defender. Some are claiming that T-mac was a good defender while he has nothing to show for it.

Hustlenomics
08-06-2010, 04:56 PM
Why are you covering your face? Do you know anything about good defense?

i remember him giving dirk trouble in the playoffs defensively

truplayer199
08-06-2010, 04:59 PM
i remember him giving dirk trouble in the playoffs defensively

Wow one game. I remember Smush parker playing good defense on Nash at some point during the playoffs, does that mean he was a good defender?

truplayer199
08-06-2010, 05:00 PM
i remember him giving dirk trouble in the playoffs defensively

Odom also plays Dirk well, do you consider him a good defender?

Hawkeye15
08-06-2010, 05:04 PM
oh yea because he only got steals gambling and not picking pockets or hustling for loose balls lmao he didn't get beat by his man all the time which is wat most haters like to say nowadays and you are overrating a 35 year old mutumbo if anything you put that supporting cast behind tmac or kobe yall would complain how they didnt have help and more damn excuses

do you ever present evidence to back up your claims?

Hawkeye15
08-06-2010, 05:06 PM
At least Iverson have something to show for playing defense. Not that i'm saying that Iverson was a good defender. Some are claiming that T-mac was a good defender while he has nothing to show for it.

there are plenty of metrics to support the claim Iverson was not a great defender, and that TMac was in those years.
But I am not arguing with someone who wouldn't understand how to measure it anyways. i am not referring to you btw.

Hustlenomics
08-06-2010, 05:07 PM
Wow one game. I remember Smush parker playing good defense on Nash at some point during the playoffs, does that mean he was a good defender?

game 1
McGrady scored 34 points and helped harass Nowitzki as the Rockets surprised the Mavericks, 98-86, in Game 1 of their Western Conference first-round series.

game 2
dirk shot 8-21
game 3
better but In the first two games Nowitzki made just 13-of-41
game 5
dirk got 19 on 5-22 shooting

T-mac def bothered him defensively

SouthSideRookie
08-06-2010, 05:08 PM
Since when T-mac is known to play any defense? What has he achieved on the defensive side? Has he ever made a defensive team? Has he ever lead the league in steals? T-mac was never a good defender at any point. I don't know what some of you guys were seeing.

I suggest you start paying attention to todays players cause obvioulsy you're way off on your assesments.

Hustlenomics
08-06-2010, 05:08 PM
do you ever present evidence to back up your claims?

so i got to get youtube videos of every steal ai made in his career? put up evidence that shows all he did was gamble ..cuz i ALWAYS watched him play and thats enough evidence for me

NYtilIdie
08-06-2010, 05:10 PM
oh yea because he only got steals gambling and not picking pockets or hustling for loose balls lmao he didn't get beat by his man all the time which is wat most haters like to say nowadays and you are overrating a 35 year old mutumbo if anything you put that supporting cast behind tmac or kobe yall would complain how they didnt have help and more damn excuses

Oh Hawkeyes and Chronz I forgot how much how much of a hater we are :rolleyes:. I mean we're here throughing stats at this guy to prove A.I. actually had a solid supporting cast and he hits us with the "haters" comment. I guess that means we lose.

T-Mac would kill to have a sixth man of the year and two big men who averaged 5 blocks combined on his team. T-Mac led his team in rebounding and BLOCKS! He might of as well played Center since that was the case.

And no YOU'RE severely underrating how important a blocking big man like Mutumbo and Ratliff are to a team. They covered up A.I.'s flaws on defense by protecting the paint. Why do you think coachs want a blocking big man to be on the court with Amare? Because they hide his defensive flaws just like Mutumbo and Ratliff did for A.I.
Steals doesn't mean you're a solid defender every basketball head that has knowledge of the game knows that. So by your logic, A.I. is a better defender then Shane Battier because he averages more steals then him?

The only reason the Sixers looked like a bad team is because they were playing against a stacked Lakers squad. Plus how does a bad team like the Sixers get 1st place in the Eastern Conference? You're just underrating them because they were a defensive squad not a offensive squad.

NYtilIdie
08-06-2010, 05:12 PM
so i got to get youtube videos of every steal ai made in his career? put up evidence that shows all he did was gamble ..cuz i ALWAYS watched him play and thats enough evidence for me

:laugh: please don't use Youtube as your source because I can pull up a video of Jerome James mix right now that will have him look like Shaq in his prime.

Hawkeye15
08-06-2010, 05:13 PM
so i got to get youtube videos of every steal ai made in his career? put up evidence that shows all he did was gamble ..cuz i ALWAYS watched him play and thats enough evidence for me

you will have to excuse me then for not caring what your opinion is. Iverson will go down as one of the more overrated "stars" of this generation. Great player. But never a superstar capable of carrying a team. And that can be emperically proven.

Hustlenomics
08-06-2010, 05:18 PM
you will have to excuse me then for not caring what your opinion is. Iverson will go down as one of the more overrated "stars" of this generation. Great player. But never a superstar capable of carrying a team. And that can be emperically proven.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQyK6RjcemA check out iversons great block at 1:28 from just standing around and not playing defense :eyebrow: and at least he'll go down with more accomplishments than your boy T-mac who never made it out the first round lmaoo and AI made it to the finals while T-mac aint sniff the second round oh yea hes overrated and cant carry a team even though hes done it much better than t-mac has his whole career lmao smh


Oh Hawkeyes and Chronz I forgot how much how much of a hater we are :rolleyes:. I mean we're here throughing stats at this guy to prove A.I. actually had a solid supporting cast and he hits us with the "haters" comment. I guess that means we lose.

T-Mac would kill to have a sixth man of the year and two big men who averaged 5 blocks combined on his team. T-Mac led his team in rebounding and BLOCKS! He might of as well played Center since that was the case.

And no YOU'RE severely underrating how important a blocking big man like Mutumbo and Ratliff are to a team. They covered up A.I.'s flaws on defense by protecting the paint. Why do you think coachs want a blocking big man to be on the court with Amare? Because they hide his defensive flaws just like Mutumbo and Ratliff did for A.I.
Steals doesn't mean you're a solid defender every basketball head that has knowledge of the game knows that. So by your logic, A.I. is a better defender then Shane Battier because he averages more steals then him?

The only reason the Sixers looked like a bad team is because they were playing against a stacked Lakers squad. Plus how does a bad team like the Sixers get 1st place in the Eastern Conference? You're just underrating them because they were a defensive squad not a offensive squad.

"Did I have enough help? Absolutely," McGrady said. "I wouldn't be in this situation if I didn't have enough help. I just think that right now everybody wants it so bad, we're just not staying poised."
stop saying tmac aint have help and all that crap he had a prime yao by his side and that team gets 1st place because iverson played great that year ..i guess he got MVP by just sittin on his *** huh

Hawkeye15
08-06-2010, 05:21 PM
please understand dude, I am indifferent to both players. But I love basketball, and like to study it from all angles to gain a better understanding of what I am watching. So when i see something on this site I believe is false, I will say something. Doesn't mean I am sticking up for "my" player.

skinsfan4life80
08-06-2010, 05:25 PM
Its so funny to hear so many of you in here bashing TMac. It was not to long ago all these where screaming he is better then Kobe he just doesnt get to play with Shaq but if he ever played with a good big man he would rings blah blah blah. I would prob say almost 70 percent of you lebron fans screaming he is better then Kobe are former Tmac fans. Tmac's career is now over clearly but to act like he wasnt regarded as one the best players on the planet for half a decade is just crazy. Sports fans have the shortest memory know to man. All of sudden Iverson was never good, Tmac was never good..Steve Francis and Marbury sucked.

Hustlenomics
08-06-2010, 05:26 PM
please understand dude, I am indifferent to both players. But I love basketball, and like to study it from all angles to gain a better understanding of what I am watching. So when i see something on this site I believe is false, I will say something. Doesn't mean I am sticking up for "my" player.

I grew up on basketball my whole life and I know what im talking about and when people say Iverson sucked it makes me laugh because I actually watched these people play in their primes and not listen to what the media says of these players.

Hawkeye15
08-06-2010, 05:31 PM
I grew up on basketball my whole life and I know what im talking about and when people say Iverson sucked it makes me laugh because I actually watched these people play in their primes and not listen to what the media says of these players.

who said he sucks? And we are done with this until you empirically prove how dominant Iverson was compared to a player like TMac in his prime. Cause in their prime years, its not even close dude. TMac craps all over AI from 2000-2007, with the lone exception of 05-06', when Iverson had his best year and TMac was hurt.

NYtilIdie
08-06-2010, 05:33 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQyK6RjcemA check out iversons great block at 1:28 from just standing around and not playing defense :eyebrow: and at least he'll go down with more accomplishments than your boy T-mac who never made it out the first round lmaoo and AI made it to the finals while T-mac aint sniff the second round oh yea hes overrated and cant carry a team even though hes done it much better than t-mac has his whole career lmao smh



"Did I have enough help? Absolutely," McGrady said. "I wouldn't be in this situation if I didn't have enough help. I just think that right now everybody wants it so bad, we're just not staying poised."
stop saying tmac aint have help and all that crap he had a prime yao by his side and that team gets 1st place because iverson played great that year ..i guess he got MVP by just sittin on his *** huh

Jerome James looks beast on Youtube as well (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IIvSJy4R10)

Thats the PROBLEM!!!! His team never showed up when it mattered the most in the PLAYOFFS!!! I explained this to you earlier. He did all he could, he averages 28 PPG in the playoffs one of the highest in NBA history. Need proof his teammates didn't show up? Go watch the 07-08 Playoffs when Yao was done for the season and his 2nd best player at the time Rafer Alston, was out with an ankle injury and didn't return until the elimination game. T-Mac did all he could to win that series but nobody else was lending a hand.

Great players get beat by better teams.

No, Yao wasn't the player he is today when T-Mac first came to Houston. By time Yao hit his prime T-Mac was suffering back injuries and such. They hardly played together in Yao's prime because both couldn't stay healthy at that point.

No, but you can get the MVP award when you have two defensive big men covering up your flaws on defense. A.I. was on a team that was told to just worry about defense and let Iverson handle the offense which is why Iverson would just shoot as soon as he touched the ball.

Hustlenomics
08-06-2010, 05:36 PM
who said he sucks? And we are done with this until you empirically prove how dominant Iverson was compared to a player like TMac in his prime. Cause in their prime years, its not even close dude. TMac craps all over AI from 2000-2007, with the lone exception of 05-06', when Iverson had his best year and TMac was hurt.

that's cool Iverson still got an MVP trophy t-mac never got

Hawkeye15
08-06-2010, 05:38 PM
that's cool Iverson still got an MVP trophy t-mac never got

so I take that as a no, you have no idea how to evaluate players. When debating, and you don't know someone, "trust me, I know basketball", is not an argument.

Kashmir13579
08-06-2010, 05:39 PM
did this thread really turn into a who had the more mediocre career thread? ew. you guys are terrible.

Hawkeye15
08-06-2010, 05:41 PM
did this thread really turn into a who had the more mediocre career thread? ew. you guys are terrible.

Would it stem your interest if I told you McGrady from 2000-2007 was better than Carmelo Anthony has ever been? haha
Just messing with you man, even though it is true.

Hustlenomics
08-06-2010, 05:42 PM
so I take that as a no, you have no idea how to evaluate players. When debating, and you don't know someone, "trust me, I know basketball", is not an argument.

let's see who gets into the hall of fame first if T-mac *****s on iverson's career so bad it shouldnt be hard for him to get a hall of fame nod

Iodine
08-06-2010, 05:45 PM
oh yea because he only got steals gambling and not picking pockets or hustling for loose balls lmao he didn't get beat by his man all the time which is wat most haters like to say nowadays and you are overrating a 35 year old mutumbo if anything you put that supporting cast behind tmac or kobe yall would complain how they didnt have help and more damn excuses

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7

7 words you managed to misspell thanks to E-Slang

oh and you throw out the haters comment, I forgot you can't disagree with people on the internet without *gasp* being called a hater!@@@@@@()*&(@^$*&^%*7

Oh and wow you watched him play
So because I watched Lance Stephenson dunk in High School I can be his expert?

YES MY LIFE IS COMPLETE

Iodine
08-06-2010, 05:46 PM
let's see who gets into the hall of fame first if T-mac *****s on iverson's career so bad it shouldnt be hard for him to get a hall of fame nod

The hall of fame is a joke............

oh damn dude throw out cuss words show your a tough guy!

Iodine
08-06-2010, 05:47 PM
so I take that as a no, you have no idea how to evaluate players. When debating, and you don't know someone, "trust me, I know basketball", is not an argument.

It's what got your GM a job :)

Hawkeye15
08-06-2010, 05:48 PM
It's what got your GM a job :)

that is actually kind of funny

nyyfan4life
08-06-2010, 05:56 PM
This whole thread is a lolfest. People forget how dominant Mac was in his prime. He barely had any real help on his teams. Bad luck. Grant Hill went down in Orlando. Yao and him were never really healthy when at the top of their game. What sets Mac apart from most scorers was that he rarely turned the ball over despite having the ball in his hand most of the team. Efficient and beast.

NYtilIdie
08-06-2010, 05:59 PM
let's see who gets into the hall of fame first if T-mac *****s on iverson's career so bad it shouldnt be hard for him to get a hall of fame nod

Just because A.I. won a MVP doesn't mean he's going into the HOF. He has the same chance as T-Mac, VC and Hill.

See Bernard King.

cmellofan15
08-06-2010, 06:02 PM
Would it stem your interest if I told you McGrady from 2000-2007 was better than Carmelo Anthony has ever been? haha
Just messing with you man, even though it is true.

:no:

Hawkeye15
08-06-2010, 06:03 PM
:no:

if you start a comparison forum, I will get in there later and give you my opinion. Its actually a valid debate, and Mac's prime years are pretty easily better.

Kashmir13579
08-06-2010, 06:10 PM
Would it stem your interest if I told you McGrady from 2000-2007 was better than Carmelo Anthony has ever been? haha
Just messing with you man, even though it is true.

i don't know if you are trying to make me angry? it didnt work though. and i agree that mcgrady in his prime is as good or better than carmelo has ever been. i think in his prime he was better than kobe. what's your problem guy? i love t-mac. but for having the "god given talents" that he possessed, his career was incredibly mediocre. its not his fault, its just true.

Kashmir13579
08-06-2010, 06:14 PM
if you start a comparison forum, I will get in there later and give you my opinion. Its actually a valid debate, and Mac's prime years are pretty easily better.

yea, the difference is that carmelo is still relevant in the nba. carmelo still has a chance to do great things. and as much as i hate saying this, carmelo has made it out of the first round (in the west)

cmellofan15
08-06-2010, 06:46 PM
if you start a comparison forum, I will get in there later and give you my opinion. Its actually a valid debate, and Mac's prime years are pretty easily better.

I'd give him the year where he avg'd 32 ppg and 38% from 3pt. but the others, not so much.

Hustlenomics
08-06-2010, 10:53 PM
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7

7 words you managed to misspell thanks to E-Slang

oh and you throw out the haters comment, I forgot you can't disagree with people on the internet without *gasp* being called a hater!@@@@@@()*&(@^$*&^%*7

Oh and wow you watched him play
So because I watched Lance Stephenson dunk in High School I can be his expert?

YES MY LIFE IS COMPLETE

oh noes i gotta spell every word correctly online and can't use slang you can be lance's expert all you want just hop off my nuts guy


The hall of fame is a joke............

oh damn dude throw out cuss words show your a tough guy!

yea i'm really tryna act tough .. get lost ;)

ivylleague1'
08-06-2010, 11:53 PM
TMac is a great player, and deserves to be signed by a team.
Iverson was conspicuosly better than TMac. TMac only outscored Iverson in the two years he (TMac) won the scoring championship, otherwise Iverson outscored him every year of 13 years. TMac's career points is 21.5. Iverson 27pts (No comparison). Iverson also holds the NBA record for the number of steals in a playoff game at Orlando against TMac. He defeated TMac, defeated Vince Carter (great player), (Ray Allen, Big Dog, and Sam Cassel playing together). Iverson led the NBA in steals for several years, and is a perennial top ten in number of points, steals, and assists.

JordansBulls
08-07-2010, 12:05 AM
:no:

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=455258&highlight=Mcgrady&page=8

Chronz
08-07-2010, 05:24 AM
T-mac defense has been horrible throughout his career, what are you talking about? I agree he was easily top 3 on the offensive side at some point.
Be honest, you didnt have cable or the internet in those days huh


Ai's hustle and determination and hard play spreaded like germs on the whole team and made those scrubs play better.after philly aaron mckie wasn't good
If AI played with scrubs then Tmac played with toddlers. Now that thats out of the way you can stop referring to his SUPERIOR TEAMMATES as "scrubs", or continue appearing like you dont know the game, I dont care...

Back on topic, Mckie was 33 by the time he left Philly, are you seriously suggesting his athletically based game shouldnt have declined? Besides Im telling you, anyone who was old enough to modestly assess a players productive value during AI's prime happened to catch on to the fact that it was hard to find players that meshed with a young AI. Its why the line on AI is that you have to find very specific players to pair him with. Hes such a liability defensively, and such a dominant ballhandler that it was hard to find anyone that thrived alongside him, its why they paired him with defenders and why you think they were scrubs.



I been watching iverson for a long time so i don't see what your tryna say lol
I have no doubt youve been watching him for a long time, in fact Im pretty sure thats whats skewing your opinion.


either way T-mac couldnt carry his team like other superstars did
Coming from you this means absolutely nothing.

NBA-GMaster
08-07-2010, 06:27 AM
I really wish Tmac sign to a contender team and PASS THE 1ST ROUND OF THE PLAYOFFS this upcoming season..

kingofkings313
08-07-2010, 10:15 AM
T Mac was the best player in the league a few years ago. So since Orlando never gave him a supporting cast then its his fault he can't get out the 1st round? Even tho he had a lead on the Pistons in 2004, who actually expected them to win the series? I sure didn't! Orlando is the reason T Mac is prone to injury now. They put to much stress on his body and never gave him help. And lets also put some blame on Tim Duncan, who said he was going to Orlando with T Mac and Grant Hill and then played them and went back to San Antonio. T Mac still has enough left to take a role player job. Chicago, Boston, San Antonio, or Dallas should be nice fits for him to play 15 - 20 mins. and provide some help on the offensive end.

Jaji
08-07-2010, 10:28 AM
I used to think T Mac was underrated until I saw people saying he was better than LeBron :facepalm:.

Hustlenomics
08-07-2010, 12:52 PM
Be honest, you didnt have cable or the internet in those days huh


If AI played with scrubs then Tmac played with toddlers. Now that thats out of the way you can stop referring to his SUPERIOR TEAMMATES as "scrubs", or continue appearing like you dont know the game, I dont care...

Back on topic, Mckie was 33 by the time he left Philly, are you seriously suggesting his athletically based game shouldnt have declined? Besides Im telling you, anyone who was old enough to modestly assess a players productive value during AI's prime happened to catch on to the fact that it was hard to find players that meshed with a young AI. Its why the line on AI is that you have to find very specific players to pair him with. Hes such a liability defensively, and such a dominant ballhandler that it was hard to find anyone that thrived alongside him, its why they paired him with defenders and why you think they were scrubs.



I have no doubt youve been watching him for a long time, in fact Im pretty sure thats whats skewing your opinion.


Coming from you this means absolutely nothing.
lol you needa find a new favorite player guy, t-mac aint amountin to nothing and he never did

SiR Lakers III
08-07-2010, 03:29 PM
T-Mac was the best player in the NBA at one point.