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View Full Version : Where Do You Think Bryan Colagelo Stand With Folks League Wide?



JasonJohnHorn
08-05-2010, 12:24 PM
Hedu Turkaglu had some comments regarding Bryan Colangelo in this article:
http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Hedo-Turkoglu-says-no-one-wants-to-go-to-Toront?urn=nba-259716

"People have to realize something is wrong with that organization and nobody wants to go there anymore," he said in a phone interview from Turkey. "It's not just the players who see this." [...]

"It's funny that people will talk behind your back," Turkoglu said of Colangelo. "If he was feeling this way, why not have the guts to say it during the season? Why not say it to Chris? Now that Chris has left, it's not nice to say those things.

"Chris has been a franchise player and he did a lot of good things for the Raptors. I don't think Chris is the type of player to quit on his teammates.

"I just don't understand why you would say these things," he added. "Like I said, that organization has problems."

Bosh has also fired back recently, and with the Matt Barnes debacle and the bad draft picks since his arrival and failed trade attempts, and firing of a quality coaching staff that got Toronto into the playoffs, where do you all think Bryan Colangelo stands? Being Canadian, I pull for the Raptors (though I am more a fan of the game) and I didn't like the firing of Sam Mitchell any more than I like Colangelo's selection with the first over all pick in the draft. his recent comments about Chris Bosh however were more than a little classless, and earlier in the season, with the Hedu sighting at the bar and Colangelo's public statements and follow up actions being in conflict, it seems like Bryan Colangelo isnt managing the Raptors very well. I personally would like to see him out of Toronto since the team has been in decline since his arrival despite the bennefit of trade-able assets, high draft picks and cap space. there is no reason Toronto shouldnt be in a far better position than it is right now, and Coangelo, in my opinion, is a big reason for the franchise'ss down fall. what players are going to want to play for a guy who doesnt even know the salary cap rules and makes a player an offer her cant pay out? And who is going to want to play for a guy who has such harsh, unflattering things to say about a player AFTER they've left when that player has clearly put in an honest effort for the franchise? And who is going to want to play for a guy who publically says one thing (regarding Hedu and his injury/missed game and following suspension) and then, after negative fan response follows up by going back on his word?

Bosh even went so far as to give Colangelo a list of team he would like to do a sign and trade with and Colangelo couldnt ever work out a decent deal to bring in high draft picks or players (we could have at least got michael Beasly out of the deal since miami was trying to dump him, or could have traded Bosh mid season with LA for Bynum- or so some seemed to think).

it just doesnt seem like Colangelo has done a good job of either building a team, or cultivating an atmosphere of trust and loyalty within the organization, and he's had a few seasons to do it.

Wade>You
08-05-2010, 12:30 PM
He milks all the success that his Dad had. He's had a lot more to work with to build a contender than Riley did since BC arrived in Toronto. If his name was Bryan Kahn, he'd be out of a job.

Tmath
08-05-2010, 12:55 PM
Old news. Lets all face it Toronto has a disadvantage being the only canadian team. Its obviously harder to get talent here and if we can get it we have to overpay. I just hope he now realizes we should just rebuild through the draft and get our talent from there instead off overpaying douchebag's like Hedo.

Unruly Fan
08-05-2010, 01:07 PM
I don't think Colangelo is doing a horrible job overall but decisions could've been better I guess.

Basically the majority if not all of Toronto's star players have come from the draft. I am now pretty much convinced that the team's success depends on it. And did I regret Colangelo's decision to draft Bargs instead of Roy... (a wing player that would perfectly compliment Bosh) YES...

Chronz
08-05-2010, 02:02 PM
Old news. Lets all face it Toronto has a disadvantage being the only canadian team. Its obviously harder to get talent here and if we can get it we have to overpay. I just hope he now realizes we should just rebuild through the draft and get our talent from there instead off overpaying douchebag's like Hedo.
It would be easy to back your management if they didnt overpay for their own draftees extensions when there was no market. I have my own admittedly subjective measures to grade GM's (I dont blame them for missing out on draftpicks only what they could have seen coming), aside from his name and family, Ive never seen someone prove hes even above adequate compared to some of the really great GM's however many there may be. I just know he aint one of them.

B2theRY
08-05-2010, 02:56 PM
So because Hedo runs his mouth... everyone should trash Colangelo?

yes because what Hedo thinks really matters throughout the league.

and when Phx doesnt win with him... Hedo will say Steve Nash isnt a good PG.

hes a ****ing tool... good riddance to bad rubbish.

The_905
08-05-2010, 03:14 PM
BC is so overated it's quite rediculous. Granted he does clean up his mistakes pretty well, he has mad too many borderline decisions and the lastest has been the Amir Johnson resigning.

akesh99
08-05-2010, 03:23 PM
Dude, you are so misinformed on soo many points! Coming into this gig, BC was EXTREMELY hyped up as he was supposed to be the "savior" to this franchise. He attempted to tap into a relatively unknown Euro market and he was able to bring over some solid players. It's unfortunate that some of his visions didn't pan out, but he has put his talents on display numerous occasions to show what a crafty and creative GM he is. He was pressured to swing for the fences because of the pressure to win NOW with Bosh. Now that we've moved past that, we will be able to judge BC fairly. He's built a solid young core so far and all we can do is wait and see how he manages them and what pieces he puts around them. I'm not expecting a championship any time soon, but we will definitely have a fun team to watch moving forward

JasonJohnHorn
08-06-2010, 08:22 AM
Dude, you are so misinformed on soo many points! Coming into this gig, BC was EXTREMELY hyped up as he was supposed to be the "savior" to this franchise. He attempted to tap into a relatively unknown Euro market and he was able to bring over some solid players. It's unfortunate that some of his visions didn't pan out, but he has put his talents on display numerous occasions to show what a crafty and creative GM he is. He was pressured to swing for the fences because of the pressure to win NOW with Bosh. Now that we've moved past that, we will be able to judge BC fairly. He's built a solid young core so far and all we can do is wait and see how he manages them and what pieces he puts around them. I'm not expecting a championship any time soon, but we will definitely have a fun team to watch moving forward

"Relatively unknown Euro market"? You mean the one the Kings raided (Vlade, Peja and Turk) to build a contender, or the one the Spurs raided (Manu and Parker, Scola- who they traded because they couldnt buy him out with the salary cap rules- and Splittner). Or the one the Mavs have been trying to build around for year (Dirk). the 'Euro market' is not unknown, Colangelo just doesnt know much about it. The only good player he's brought over from Europe is Calderon and he botched a trade that has effectively alienated the quality point guard. The Raptors have not had much success with European players (Araujo) and Bargnani was a waste of a pick.

As for a solid young core, I'm not sure what you are talking about. I'm a Raptors fan and this squad is a mess! I have no problem admitting it. As for the 'solid players' he brought in, I'm not sure who you are talking about. the only decent players he brought in were Moon (who has sat on the bench elsewhere) and Calderon (who is great, but admittedly is a liability on defence and as I have mentioned has been alienated by Colangelo).

And he got rid of a solid coach and has been unable to find one as good since. Colangelo has failed, passing up on players like Granger, Roy and biedrins, and making bad free agent signings (Turk) and trades (O'Neal, Marion).

gwrighter
08-06-2010, 08:41 AM
"relatively unknown euro market"? You mean the one the kings raided (vlade, peja and turk) to build a contender, or the one the spurs raided (manu and parker, scola- who they traded because they couldnt buy him out with the salary cap rules- and splittner). Or the one the mavs have been trying to build around for year (dirk). The 'euro market' is not unknown, colangelo just doesnt know much about it. the only good player he's brought over from europe is calderon and he botched a trade that has effectively alienated the quality point guard. the raptors have not had much success with european players (araujo) and bargnani was a waste of a pick.

as for a solid young core, i'm not sure what you are talking about. I'm a raptors fan and this squad is a mess! i have no problem admitting it. As for the 'solid players' he brought in, i'm not sure who you are talking about. The only decent players he brought in were moon (who has sat on the bench elsewhere) and calderon (who is great, but admittedly is a liability on defence and as i have mentioned has been alienated by colangelo).

And he got rid of a solid coach and has been unable to find one as good since. colangelo has failed, passing up on players like granger, roy and biedrins, and making bad free agent signings (turk) and trades (o'neal, marion).

1. manu, scola n splitter are from south america.
2. he has also brought in garbajosa, n bargnani.
3. which botched trade alienated calderon?
4. Bargnani wasn't a waste of a pick dude are you serious?
5. you can't compare our core to that of others and be disappointed. Just wait, BC is sitting on some things. he knows what he is doing.
6. it's easy in hindsight to say who he should have gotten. how players blossom depends on what situation they are put in, so you can't blame him for who he should have chosen. thats like calling someone a failure for not picking the right lottery numbers.

knicksfan23
08-06-2010, 09:06 AM
"Relatively unknown Euro market"? You mean the one the Kings raided (Vlade, Peja and Turk) to build a contender, or the one the Spurs raided (Manu and Parker, Scola- who they traded because they couldnt buy him out with the salary cap rules- and Splittner). Or the one the Mavs have been trying to build around for year (Dirk). the 'Euro market' is not unknown, Colangelo just doesnt know much about it. The only good player he's brought over from Europe is Calderon and he botched a trade that has effectively alienated the quality point guard. The Raptors have not had much success with European players (Araujo) and Bargnani was a waste of a pick.

As for a solid young core, I'm not sure what you are talking about. I'm a Raptors fan and this squad is a mess! I have no problem admitting it. As for the 'solid players' he brought in, I'm not sure who you are talking about. the only decent players he brought in were Moon (who has sat on the bench elsewhere) and Calderon (who is great, but admittedly is a liability on defence and as I have mentioned has been alienated by Colangelo).

And he got rid of a solid coach and has been unable to find one as good since. Colangelo has failed, passing up on players like Granger, Roy and biedrins, and making bad free agent signings (Turk) and trades (O'Neal, Marion).

Bargnani was definally not a waste of a pick watch him next year without bosh he will be better(AND THIS IS COMING FROM A KNICKS FAN K?)

Raoul Duke
08-06-2010, 09:31 AM
The fact that he failed to get any real, tangible building blocks out of Bosh pretty much cemented my opinion that he's done a sub par job. It's nice to see people admitting it considering how high he was on some "best NBA GMs" lists.

And how did that Barnes debacle even happen? Is the FO there really that ignorant?

Hiphopopotamus
08-06-2010, 09:40 AM
Yeah, BC was hyped as a genius, franchise saver, etc....not so much....need jerry not brian

JasonJohnHorn
08-06-2010, 11:40 AM
1. manu, scola n splitter are from south america.
2. he has also brought in garbajosa, n bargnani.
3. which botched trade alienated calderon?
4. Bargnani wasn't a waste of a pick dude are you serious?
5. you can't compare our core to that of others and be disappointed. Just wait, BC is sitting on some things. he knows what he is doing.
6. it's easy in hindsight to say who he should have gotten. how players blossom depends on what situation they are put in, so you can't blame him for who he should have chosen. thats like calling someone a failure for not picking the right lottery numbers.

1: They all play in Europe, hence European ball players. You know, kind like how Hakeem and Duncan played on the American Olympic team even though neither of them are American. I'm speaking to WHERE they play, not WHERE they were born. We are talking BASKETBALL, not geographical birth places.

2: Garbajosa? The guy who only played 74 NBA games and hasnt been in the league for two years? Um.... ok. Sure. And Bargnani? A 7 foot center who can't even get 7 rebounds a game, let alone 10! When was the last time a team won a title with a center who couldnt grab 10 boards a game? Pretty sure that was Jordan's Bulls, so when we get a guy as good as Jordan, then Bargnani will be a perfect center to have, as long as we also have the greatest rebounder since Wilt Chamberlain playing alongside our Jordan-esque superstar like Jordan had Rodman.

3: the botch Charlotte trade that was supposed to bring Tyson Chandler to TO (because even Colangelo knows Bargnani is $#!T and we need a real center that can actually defend and rebound). The trade was announced and jordna put the ki-bosh on it, and now Calderon "wants to know where he's playing next season". I'm pretty sure I would call that alienating your point guard.

4: See 2

5: I can and I am. Our core? Who is our core? DeRozen? Bargnani? Amir Johnson? I'd rather have Granger, Hansborough and Hibbert than those guys, and I'll take Ford of Jack as well. And I'm comparing TO to a non-playoff team, not the actual playoff and title contenders.

6: Yes, it is easy in hindsight, I will agree. But people knew Roy was good, and people knew that Granger was good, they were both high on mock draft boards, and everybody knew that Bargnani was a gamble and everybody knew that that was a bad year to have a first over-all pick and that they should have traded down in the draft to get a high pick and a vet. And nobody expected Charlie V to go that high, and Joey Grahm over Granger? Come on. I can forgive a couple bad picks, IF the guy made a couple of goods ones, but I'm still waiting on the good ones to even out the bad. And WHY would you draft TWO SMALL FORWARDS IN THE SAME DRAFT when they already had Mo Pete? Grrrr.....

Anyways, I dont think we are going to agree. But as a Raptors fan I hope you're right and I'm wrong, but as a realist, I'm thinking TO ownership needs to seriously considering moving on and getting a new GM, because the one we have has had a few years to get things going and he has yet put together anything resembling a playoff team.

Rego247
08-06-2010, 12:03 PM
1: They all play in Europe, hence European ball players. You know, kind like how Hakeem and Duncan played on the American Olympic team even though neither of them are American. I'm speaking to WHERE they play, not WHERE they were born. We are talking BASKETBALL, not geographical birth places.

2: Garbajosa? The guy who only played 74 NBA games and hasnt been in the league for two years? Um.... ok. Sure. And Bargnani? A 7 foot center who can't even get 7 rebounds a game, let alone 10! When was the last time a team won a title with a center who couldnt grab 10 boards a game? Pretty sure that was Jordan's Bulls, so when we get a guy as good as Jordan, then Bargnani will be a perfect center to have, as long as we also have the greatest rebounder since Wilt Chamberlain playing alongside our Jordan-esque superstar like Jordan had Rodman.

3: the botch Charlotte trade that was supposed to bring Tyson Chandler to TO (because even Colangelo knows Bargnani is $#!T and we need a real center that can actually defend and rebound). The trade was announced and jordna put the ki-bosh on it, and now Calderon "wants to know where he's playing next season". I'm pretty sure I would call that alienating your point guard.

4: See 2

5: I can and I am. Our core? Who is our core? DeRozen? Bargnani? Amir Johnson? I'd rather have Granger, Hansborough and Hibbert than those guys, and I'll take Ford of Jack as well. And I'm comparing TO to a non-playoff team, not the actual playoff and title contenders.

6: Yes, it is easy in hindsight, I will agree. But people knew Roy was good, and people knew that Granger was good, they were both high on mock draft boards, and everybody knew that Bargnani was a gamble and everybody knew that that was a bad year to have a first over-all pick and that they should have traded down in the draft to get a high pick and a vet. And nobody expected Charlie V to go that high, and Joey Grahm over Granger? Come on. I can forgive a couple bad picks, IF the guy made a couple of goods ones, but I'm still waiting on the good ones to even out the bad. And WHY would you draft TWO SMALL FORWARDS IN THE SAME DRAFT when they already had Mo Pete? Grrrr.....

Anyways, I dont think we are going to agree. But as a Raptors fan I hope you're right and I'm wrong, but as a realist, I'm thinking TO ownership needs to seriously considering moving on and getting a new GM, because the one we have has had a few years to get things going and he has yet put together anything resembling a playoff team.

So..its BCs fault that jordan squashed the trade at the 11th hour??? If jose doesnt understand this is a business, then he shouldnt be playing. Also if the deal HAD gone down we wouldnt be having this conversation would we. Im a Gm entering the off season tryin to address one of my teams weaknesses, and i have a deal in principle with another that does that, but falls through at the last minute. YET its still my fault. gimme a break dude.

as For 6. ill just :facepalm: it, because its evident u have no idea what ur talking about.

if anything this is just another bash BC thread.

ink
08-06-2010, 12:05 PM
Bosh has also fired back recently, and with the Matt Barnes debacle and the bad draft picks since his arrival and failed trade attempts, and firing of a quality coaching staff that got Toronto into the playoffs, where do you all think Bryan Colangelo stands?

All of this is very subjective and not factual at all. So the premise of the thread is flawed. Your opinion of him is negative so you only present one side.

Bosh hasn't "fired back", in fact he hasn't even addressed the most important point Colangelo made. The Matt Barnes "debacle" had more to do with an idiot athlete twittering something before it was done. The "bad draft picks"??? Or the fact that the Raptors' draft picks were often traded away? Again, misrepresented situation and facts. Quality coaching staff? This is the one that sticks out the most. One person was fired. The "staff" was basically retained and is, for the most part, still with the team. The one person that was fired couldn't get a job for a few years and now finally has caught on as an assistant somewhere else. If he was quality you'd think there would have been interest. Quite often when these threads are started the facts are seriously skewed. And using Hedo Turkoglu's comment as evidence that there's something wrong doesn't lend any credibility either. There may be something wrong with the team, but the summary above doesn't represent the problems because it's so skewed.

Besides, didn't we already do this thread, with this Turkoglu quote?

Raydogg909
08-06-2010, 12:20 PM
You do know that Babcock was the one to draft CV and Graham right?? Colangelo traded Graham when he got here....

TO to the CHI
08-06-2010, 12:21 PM
1. manu, scola n splitter are from south america.
2. he has also brought in garbajosa, n bargnani.
3. which botched trade alienated calderon?
4. Bargnani wasn't a waste of a pick dude are you serious?
5. you can't compare our core to that of others and be disappointed. Just wait, BC is sitting on some things. he knows what he is doing.
6. it's easy in hindsight to say who he should have gotten. how players blossom depends on what situation they are put in, so you can't blame him for who he should have chosen. thats like calling someone a failure for not picking the right lottery numbers.

JasonJohnHorn is not a Raptors fan (despite his protestations to the contrary) and his knowledge of the NBA is clearly no better than his knowledge of geography (there are other places in the world besides the USA, Canada, and Europe -- people don't have to fit neatly into those three categories0.

blue collar B
08-06-2010, 12:30 PM
I like BC. As a long time Raptor fan I actually enjoy the Raptor off season under BC. He takes risks and they don't always pan out. But let's face it he inherited a mess. He managed to put together respectable teams year after year. In the past management was content with a mediocre team. I like that BC tries to improve the team 360 days a year. I think the media jumping on the Barnes story and the the other move with the Bobcats was the main reason for BC's criticism. I like him and worry about the alternative. All I know is BC tries to put together exciting teams and has to deal with American players that don't want to play in Canada. We had John Salmons until he refused to play in T.O. So that's why he pursues Europeans. He does a great job for a guy at a disadvantage. I don't understand those Raptor fans that don't like him. Either you didn't follow the Raptors before him and didn't see the struggles or you have something against him. Great GM.

ink
08-06-2010, 12:34 PM
JasonJohnHorn is not a Raptors fan (despite his protestations to the contrary) and his knowledge of the NBA is clearly no better than his knowledge of geography (there are other places in the world besides the USA, Canada, and Europe -- people don't have to fit neatly into those three categories0.

There's no reason to say he's not a Raptors fan. Lots of Raptors fans are unhappy with the team, the GM, etc, etc. The problem with the thread is that it's based on the comments of a player who "stole money from the team for a year" (Jack Armstrong's quote) and all of the "negatives" listed in the OP aren't exactly factual.

TO to the CHI
08-06-2010, 12:38 PM
There's no reason to say he's not a Raptors fan. Lots of Raptors fans are unhappy with the team, the GM, etc, etc. The problem with the thread is that it's based on the comments of a player who "stole money from the team for a year" (Jack Armstrong's quote) and all of the "negatives" listed in the OP aren't exactly factual.

Read his posts again. To be disappointed or frustrated as a fan is one thing. This is someone who rips on everything the team has done (and not just that BC has done) with a strong passion and a flair for inaccuracy. That approach is borne of not being a fan, not of a fan's passion. Btw, fans don't usually include caveats that they are really a fan of the league.

HT9Canada
08-06-2010, 01:05 PM
As a Raptors fan, it is obvious many of Colangelo's plans haven't worked out. But he has tried, made great teams. J. O'Neal, S. Marion, H. Turkoglu, C. Bosh and many others are all all stars in this league. We had some great teams, and when they didn't work, he made trades and made another great team. We could blame this on the players. Bad leadership. Maybe Bosh and Turkoglu didn't do their job and the blame goes to Colangelo because he is the GM. But now we start over and i'm excited. Bargnani goes to his real position at PF and we build around young players. A draft or 2 and we could be right up there.

The only teams that don't need to rebuild are the Lakers, Knicks, Celtics because everyone wants to go there. We have been competive for years now, without rebuilding and trading our best stars for **** because they don't want to be here. I say that Toronto has done a damn good job and Colangelo needs a good year or 2 to see how his rebuild goes. Every GM gets a rebuild, this is his.

BALLER R
08-06-2010, 01:38 PM
I Think more important question is if we start to improve in the next few years then wouldnt all the blame be put on bosh and that it wasn't BC's fault the team were bad. Not saying its gonna happen but put throwing it out there it is very possible that now with bosh gone we can really see how he rebuilds this team. he tried building around bosh but then he got to a point where i as a fan starting questioning if it was BC or was bosh the reason those teams didnt work well together.

beasted86
08-06-2010, 01:51 PM
BC sux, I feel bad for Raptors fans :(

Beasley for free and a couple picks in return he decides he rather just take the picks and instead sign Linas Kleiza for the same $4.9M?

Is Linas Kleiza really better than Beasley? He's the same 240lb 6'8" tweener SF/PF who plays poor defense and doesn't pass. At least Beasley has potential and has a 1-2 yr contract, and is only 21yrs old. Kleiza is 25 and was mediocre for the Nuggets, they didn't even miss him at all last season.

gwrighter
08-06-2010, 01:52 PM
1: They all play in Europe, hence European ball players. You know, kind like how Hakeem and Duncan played on the American Olympic team even though neither of them are American. I'm speaking to WHERE they play, not WHERE they were born. We are talking BASKETBALL, not geographical birth places.

2: Garbajosa? The guy who only played 74 NBA games and hasnt been in the league for two years? Um.... ok. Sure. And Bargnani? A 7 foot center who can't even get 7 rebounds a game, let alone 10! When was the last time a team won a title with a center who couldnt grab 10 boards a game? Pretty sure that was Jordan's Bulls, so when we get a guy as good as Jordan, then Bargnani will be a perfect center to have, as long as we also have the greatest rebounder since Wilt Chamberlain playing alongside our Jordan-esque superstar like Jordan had Rodman.

3: the botch Charlotte trade that was supposed to bring Tyson Chandler to TO (because even Colangelo knows Bargnani is $#!T and we need a real center that can actually defend and rebound). The trade was announced and jordna put the ki-bosh on it, and now Calderon "wants to know where he's playing next season". I'm pretty sure I would call that alienating your point guard.

4: See 2

5: I can and I am. Our core? Who is our core? DeRozen? Bargnani? Amir Johnson? I'd rather have Granger, Hansborough and Hibbert than those guys, and I'll take Ford of Jack as well. And I'm comparing TO to a non-playoff team, not the actual playoff and title contenders.

6: Yes, it is easy in hindsight, I will agree. But people knew Roy was good, and people knew that Granger was good, they were both high on mock draft boards, and everybody knew that Bargnani was a gamble and everybody knew that that was a bad year to have a first over-all pick and that they should have traded down in the draft to get a high pick and a vet. And nobody expected Charlie V to go that high, and Joey Grahm over Granger? Come on. I can forgive a couple bad picks, IF the guy made a couple of goods ones, but I'm still waiting on the good ones to even out the bad. And WHY would you draft TWO SMALL FORWARDS IN THE SAME DRAFT when they already had Mo Pete? Grrrr.....

Anyways, I dont think we are going to agree. But as a Raptors fan I hope you're right and I'm wrong, but as a realist, I'm thinking TO ownership needs to seriously considering moving on and getting a new GM, because the one we have has had a few years to get things going and he has yet put together anything resembling a playoff team.

1. would you consider steve nash an american basketball player then? Let's not forget that where you were born and raised shapes your character. hence y steve nash is so humble. he's like the old white guy at the ymca right? lol.

2. Bargnani avg. 17ppg n 6 rebs next to chris biotch. Bargnani played farther out from the rim because bosh needed room to do his jabstep, pump fake, drive. n on defense i admit he should grab more defensive rebs but that will come, he get's better every year so i have faith. also, OKC was the best rebounding team in the league and the highest avg. was KD @ 7.6rpg. so it is possible to be successful without a 10rpg centre.:)

3. It's part of the biz. The NBA has had its fair share of cut throat FA's that have screwed over franchises (see cleveland forum) . The team has the right to shop its players right? i doubt calderon feels alienated and if he does he needs to man up.

4. garbajosa was a great pickup for our team that finished 45-37(franchise record tie). He definitely contributed to that.

5. for our core we finally have a group of guys that are young, like each other, and want to play here! the first time EVER for us! I think this is a huge step forward for our franchise.

6. It sux to think about it but its the reality of the NBA. I wonder how portland feels with Greg Oden. At least it wasn't like that for us.:cool:

mjt20mik
08-06-2010, 01:58 PM
BC sux, I feel bad for Raptors fans :(

Beasley for free and a couple picks in return he decides he rather just take the picks and instead sign Linas Kleiza for the same $4.9M?

Is Linas Kleiza really better than Beasley? He's the same 240lb 6'8" tweener SF/PF who plays poor defense and doesn't pass. At least Beasley has potential and has a 1-2 yr contract, and is only 21yrs old. Kleiza is 25 and was mediocre for the Nuggets, they didn't even miss him at all last season.

Beasley seemed like a problem when he was in Miami. Sure I would have loved for him to come here, but I'm rather happy with the picks and the TPE.

gwrighter
08-06-2010, 02:04 PM
BC sux, I feel bad for Raptors fans :(

Beasley for free and a couple picks in return he decides he rather just take the picks and instead sign Linas Kleiza for the same $4.9M?

Is Linas Kleiza really better than Beasley? He's the same 240lb 6'8" tweener SF/PF who plays poor defense and doesn't pass. At least Beasley has potential and has a 1-2 yr contract, and is only 21yrs old. Kleiza is 25 and was mediocre for the Nuggets, they didn't even miss him at all last season.

dude, no one wanted beasley. he went to like six high schools or something right? tells you something about his character. and wow we got a huge trade exception that we can use to facilitate trades, i wouldnt call that nothing. Yes kleiza is better because he can hit the J that beasley struggled to hit last year.

beasted86
08-06-2010, 02:14 PM
Bargnani averaged 17.1 PPG and 4.7 REB on 43% FG play 37 minutes per game for the 12 games Bosh was injured, but the Raptors were only 5-7 in those games.

He can't be a franchise player on a winning team. Bosh or no Bosh, Bargnani lacks tat bite to be the top dog.

beasted86
08-06-2010, 02:19 PM
dude, no one wanted beasley. he went to like six high schools or something right? tells you something about his character. and wow we got a huge trade exception that we can use to facilitate trades, i wouldnt call that nothing. Yes kleiza is better because he can hit the J that beasley struggled to hit last year.

I am indifferent because Beasley is no longer a part of the Heat, but I would put a bet that Beasley does better off of the bench on Minnesota than Kleiza does as a starter on the Raptors next season.

Kleiza nor Beasley is taking the team anywhere... so as a GM it would probably make more sense to take the guy with a shorter contract who has potential to surprise expectations and becomea valueable trade piece down the line. Kleiza has no stock and won't be any surprise.

gwrighter
08-06-2010, 02:30 PM
Bargnani averaged 17.1 PPG and 4.7 REB on 43% FG play 37 minutes per game for the 12 games Bosh was injured, but the Raptors were only 5-7 in those games.

He can't be a franchise player on a winning team. Bosh or no Bosh, Bargnani lacks tat bite to be the top dog.

its cuz our team was built around bosh, you take out the base piece and the rest comes falling down right? JENGA! BC is still a better GM then riley though:eyebrow::p

mjt20mik
08-06-2010, 02:32 PM
Bargnani averaged 17.1 PPG and 4.7 REB on 43% FG play 37 minutes per game for the 12 games Bosh was injured, but the Raptors were only 5-7 in those games.

He can't be a franchise player on a winning team. Bosh or no Bosh, Bargnani lacks tat bite to be the top dog.

Basing whether he "has it" on 12 games seems a little premature. I'm curious to see how he responds this season to having a system that is ran specifically for him.

projectk7
08-06-2010, 02:52 PM
1: They all play in Europe, hence European ball players. You know, kind like how Hakeem and Duncan played on the American Olympic team even though neither of them are American. I'm speaking to WHERE they play, not WHERE they were born. We are talking BASKETBALL, not geographical birth places.


I'm indifferent on BC really but I had to point out that this is by far the stupidest argument I've ever heard of in a long time.

Unruly Fan
08-06-2010, 02:57 PM
I'm indifferent on BC really but I had to point out that this is by far the stupidest argument I've ever heard of in a long time.lmfao!

beasted86
08-06-2010, 02:59 PM
Basing whether he "has it" on 12 games seems a little premature. I'm curious to see how he responds this season to having a system that is ran specifically for him.
That being said I don't think anyone expect a lot more. Do you get what I'm saying?

I really hope nobody is "expecting" Bargnani to come out like gangbusters and start dropping 22+ a night with 10 boards and lead the Raptors back into the playoffs.

All said back on topic, I really have no clue what BC's vision is for the team, what his expectations are, or why he continues to hand out large contracts to players that won't put the team over the top. Either rebuild or build a cotender the right way starting with a legit coach and a defensive culture.

IversonIsKrazy
08-06-2010, 03:02 PM
He hasn't been bad, but not great either. Toronto is just a tough place to attract, the only non-American franchise, it's tough to get real talent to agree to come here. He has overpaid, but has usually found a way to get rid of the contracts after. I'm actually satisfied with him as our GM. I think the real problem is getting big names to play outside of the USA.

IversonIsKrazy
08-06-2010, 03:05 PM
And also, the real reason why Brian loved bringing in Euro talent was because they didn't care whether they lived in Canada or USA. He knew he couldn't get good American talent to come across the border, but Europeans wouldn't have a problem with it.

The weirdest thing is that Toronto is ranked top 20 asa desirable city to live in the world. Like, when ppl hear Canada, do they think we live in Igloos or somethin

gwrighter
08-06-2010, 03:36 PM
^once again it comes down to winning. if the raptors start to formulate a winning culture then we will attract the talent. We need to win first and foremost.

Rego247
08-06-2010, 03:50 PM
^once again it comes down to winning. if the raptors start to formulate a winning culture then we will attract the talent. We need to win first and foremost.

x10

CityofTreez
08-06-2010, 04:27 PM
I find it funny that posters are arguing over Beasley & Keliza. What is there to argue?
"Unknown Euro market" was another good laugh. How is it "Unknown" when geoff petrie drafted hedo and then years later Collangelo goes out and signs him to a monster contract?

JasonJohnHorn
08-07-2010, 09:37 AM
I'm indifferent on BC really but I had to point out that this is by far the stupidest argument I've ever heard of in a long time.


You can say its a 'stupid' arguement, but this thread is speaking to the playing styles of European vs. American basketball. A lot of player from Central and South America play in Europe and are brought up in the European system playing a European style. So guys like Manu, Splitter, ect, are representatives of the European style.

Guys like Duncan (Virgin Islands), Hakeem, Mutumbo, Olakwandi, Steve Nash, these guys were all born outside of the US, but they were brought up through the American college system which teaches a different style of play.

Its about where you learn to play, and what system you are brought up in, what style you play. If Kobe had stayed in Europe where his father played ball and came up through that system, he would have been seen as more of a European style player, but he was brought up through the American highschool system and developed an American style of play.

Look at Jennings. American highschool star, skips college to get paid to play in Europe, where he stunk it up big time, then comes to the US and is one of the top rookies in the league, because the American style didnt translate over there, but did translate from American higschool to NBA.

The Lopez brothers, both American born, of of cuban decent. Had they been brought played ball in Europe, they'd be representative of European style, but being american born, and coming up through the American college system, they are representative of American basketball.

I dont care where you were born. If you come up through the American system, you are a representative of the American style of basketball (which does vary drastically), and if you are brought up in international ball, and play in Europe, even if you are born in central america, then you become representative of the European style.

If that reasoned arguement sound 'stupid', the least you could do, rather than dropping an insult and not backing it up with a reasoned arguement is STFU.