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View Full Version : How Many Franchise Players are there in the League right now?



LTBaByyy
08-04-2010, 09:57 PM
Name them please, Im curious...

Gators123
08-04-2010, 09:59 PM
Kobe
LeBron
Wade
Howard
Durant

I think "franchise player" gets thrown around WAY too much.

kswissdaf
08-04-2010, 10:01 PM
LeBron Wade Kobe Dwight Durant CP3

SiR Lakers III
08-04-2010, 10:02 PM
Lebron a franchise player? lol I think he lost that title when dipset on Cleavland

ball4reel
08-04-2010, 10:08 PM
Melo is not a franchise player?

fadedmario
08-04-2010, 10:12 PM
15

5ass
08-04-2010, 10:13 PM
derrick rose?

Khalifa21
08-04-2010, 10:16 PM
LeBron
Wade
Kobe
Dwight
CP3
Durant
Melo
Deron
Roy

siralex
08-04-2010, 10:16 PM
chuck hayes.

/thread.

Hiphopopotamus
08-04-2010, 10:17 PM
derrick rose?

Only 3 players in league last year to avg at least 20 ppg and 6 ast? LBJ, Wade, and ....ROSE so I'm with you!

Bryrob58
08-04-2010, 10:20 PM
There's probably about 10-15 of them. Guys that can lead a team to a championship with a good surrounding cast, but can also be a 40 win team with **** around him.

Hiphopopotamus
08-04-2010, 10:21 PM
Kobe, Howard, Durant, Melo, D Will, CP3, Rose, Roy, Wade, not LBJ he disqualified himself by joing Wade's team, Dirk, Duncan, Nash....all a franchise player is to me is the player the team will unquestionably build around, coupled with at least playoff berths (ie couldn't be Bosh on Toronto or Lopez in NJ)

Jeff559
08-04-2010, 10:22 PM
Kobe,Lebron, Wade, Durant, CP3, Dwight for sure. fringe...dwill and melo

Hiphopopotamus
08-04-2010, 10:23 PM
There's probably about 10-15 of them. Guys that can lead a team to a championship with a good surrounding cast, but can also be a 40 win team with **** around him.

thats a good definition IMO

Bryrob58
08-04-2010, 10:24 PM
Kobe,Lebron, Wade, Durant, CP3, Dwight for sure. fringe...dwill and melo

I'll take D Will and Melo to run my team any day.

Hiphopopotamus
08-04-2010, 10:26 PM
Kobe,Lebron, Wade, Durant, CP3, Dwight for sure. fringe...dwill and melo

I don't think CP3 can be a "for sure" if D Will isn't. D Will is better right now IMO. I'm just saying.

Bryrob58
08-04-2010, 10:27 PM
Joe Johnson would be the definition of a "fringe" player. Same with guys like Bosh. Granger would be the "franchise player that should be a #2 on a contender."

Enemey
08-04-2010, 10:28 PM
Kobe, Howard, Durant, Melo, D Will, CP3, Rose, Roy, Wade, not LBJ he disqualified himself by joing Wade's team, Dirk, Duncan, Nash....all a franchise player is to me is the player the team will unquestionably build around, coupled with at least playoff berths (ie couldn't be Bosh on Toronto or Lopez in NJ)

You forgot Paul Pierce

Hiphopopotamus
08-04-2010, 10:30 PM
You forgot Paul Pierce
You're right! A shame since I live a hour north of boston. oops

erik7
08-04-2010, 10:33 PM
A player than can single handed take your team to be a contender because they can possibly beat your team on a given night by themselves...

with that being said...


Wade
Lebron
Kobe
Durant
Dwight
CP3

there are a few that are considered franchise players...but they are only going to be franchise players that take you team to the playoffs and you can never be SERIOUS contenders

The players above...if you put them with a LEGITIMATE #2 players...you will have a shot to go to the finals EVERY year...

BRANDON ROY IS NOT

Rose...we will see...he definitely will be one day

Melo has had a stacked team and just can get over the hump that separates him from Wade and Lebron in his draft class

kjoke
08-04-2010, 10:36 PM
how is lebron not a franchise player?, are u saying that u wouldnt create a franchise with lebron at the top???? it just happens that miami has two

Bryrob58
08-04-2010, 10:38 PM
See I disagree. Why isn't a guy like D Rose or John Wall a franchise player? Wouldn't Washington kiss his *** right now? Drafting him #1 doesn't make him the "franchise"?

Edit:*Disagree with guy posting 2 above.

Anyways, a quarterback, when drafted, is the "franchise qb". Why can't that apply to basketball? Will Harrison Barnes not be a franchise type guy?

ShaunRiching9
08-04-2010, 10:38 PM
I would say.

Kobe
LeBron
Durant
Howard
Rose
CP3
Wade

I can see John Wall becoming one in the future.

Bryrob58
08-04-2010, 10:41 PM
Kobe
LeBron
Durant
Howard
Rose
CP3
Wade
Wall
Melo
DWill
Roy
Evans

Sorry if I missed any.

JordansBulls
08-04-2010, 10:42 PM
Melo is not a franchise player?

That has to be a joke.

Bryrob58
08-04-2010, 10:45 PM
That has to be a joke.

I'm confused. Are you saying Melo is not a franchise player?

ball4reel
08-04-2010, 10:55 PM
Im saying no 1 said melo before my post, i think he is

Chest Rockwell
08-04-2010, 11:04 PM
Lebron, Kobe, Wade, Melo, Durant, Paul, Deron, and Howard. That's it.

tredigs
08-04-2010, 11:12 PM
Couple different tiers to me... and a "Franchise" guy to me has to both accrue monster ticket/merchandise sales AND be an elite player, so here's how I see it:

Tier 1:

Lebron (if you think he's not franchise because he's in Miami... you fail)
Wade
Kobe
Durant
D. Howard
Cp3
Melo

Tier 2:

D. Williams (I realize how close - or even slightly better - people think he is to Cp3. But I'm sorry, he's just not as good. Franchise = popularity and $ as well, which Paul has over him)
Dirk Nowitzki
Chris Bosh
Derrick Rose (his skill isn't there yet, but his popularity and the faith of his franchise putting him as the focal point of a huge market have him in this category a little premature)

Again, it's not all about skill. Rondo's better than Rose (imo... calm down Bulls fans), but he's not QUITE a "Franchise" guy yet with the big three there. It's a question that's probably open to interpretation, though.

I'd be curious to hear other peoples reasons along with their list.

MiamiWadeCounty
08-04-2010, 11:20 PM
dwill
cp3
kobe
wade
lebron
dwight
rose
roy
durant
melo
nash
duncan
dirk

Htownballa1622
08-04-2010, 11:20 PM
You forgot Paul Pierce

Are you serious? He is not a franchise player.they were horrible before big three

Lebron
Kobe
Wade
Melo
Dwight
Durant

These are the six who can win anywhere. Cp3 and dwill are right under.they can't single handedly rise their team like those 6.

MiamiWadeCounty
08-04-2010, 11:24 PM
wut bout steve nash? imo hes still a franchise guy. good attitude. fan favorite. good teamate. thats a guy i want to represent my franchise.

HouRealCoach
08-04-2010, 11:26 PM
Lebron
Wade
Kobe
D12
CP3
Rose
Roy
Evans
Durantula
D Will
Melo
Duncan
Dirk

HouRealCoach
08-04-2010, 11:26 PM
and Steve NAsh

Lord Leoshes
08-04-2010, 11:28 PM
Bron
Wade
Kobe

When Durant improves a little more on D i'll add him, as well as when Howard gets a dependable low post game.
The rest are one way players, or not good enough at one, or the other.

MiamiWadeCounty
08-04-2010, 11:31 PM
Bron
Wade
Kobe

When Durant improves a little more on D i'll add him, as well as when Howard gets a dependable low post game.
The rest are one way players, or not good enough at one, or the other.

this. i think KD is a lil overated. ill give hes a great scorer but in the playoffs he shot 35% and throughout the yr he sucked on defense

Ugerother
08-04-2010, 11:40 PM
bryant wade durant howard roy rose nash

tredigs
08-04-2010, 11:44 PM
this. i think KD is a lil overated. ill give hes a great scorer but in the playoffs he shot 35% and throughout the yr he sucked on defense

Not true. KD's an excellent defender at this point (starting last season). If you disagree and really want me to prove it, I will. He's the definition of a "franchise" player imo. 21, already a scoring champ (the youngest ever) and just signed a 5 year extension to stay the face of the top up and coming franchise in the NBA. He's also becoming hugely popular and is the current best player on our Team USA squad. Can't ask for much more out of a franchise player.

Duncan and Nash just lost their "Franchise" tag in the last year or two imo. There has to be the factor that the guy can be an undeniable leader for the next 3-5 years (along with playing top ball the entire time). We can't say that about Nash/Duncan/KG any more. So I wouldn't include them.

I think Roy's quiet demeanor and skill level put him closer to an ideal #2 or co-#1 than the centerpiece of a contender and a true "FRANCHISE" guy. Just my opinion.

SB75
08-04-2010, 11:48 PM
7
LBJ
Kobe
Wade
Paul
Durrant
Howard
Melo

Just below the cut
Rose
Johnson
Dirk
KG- At this pont in his career
Roy
Nash- at this point in his career
Duncan- at this point in his career

Lord Leoshes
08-04-2010, 11:51 PM
Not true. KD's an excellent defender at this point (starting last season). If you disagree and really want me to prove it, I will. He's the definition of a "franchise" player imo. 21, already a scoring champ and just signed the 5 year extension to stay the face of the top up and coming franchise in the NBA.

Duncan and Nash just lost their "Franchise" tag in the last year or two imo. There has to be the factor that the guy can be an undeniable leader for the next 3-5 years (along with playing top ball the entire time). We can't say that about Nash/Duncan/KG any more. So I wouldn't include them.

I think Roy's quiet demeanor and skill level put him closer to an ideal #2 or co-#1 than the centerpiece of a contender and a true "FRANCHISE" guy. Just my opinion.


It was just my opinion, but give Durant a year, or two more to fully develope his all around game. Right now he is a scorer.
If you like his defense, wait a year, or two when he gets his defensive fundamentals down, as well as develop a little more straight.

& Nash is the ideal example of a one way player. Does everything great on offense, but could not defend if his life depended on it.



K Garnnet, & Duncan resently lost their franchiss tag, but both definetly were great on both ends.

Jaji
08-04-2010, 11:51 PM
4. Lebron, Kobe, Durant and Howard.

tredigs
08-04-2010, 11:56 PM
4. Lebron, Kobe, Durant and Howard.

Wade's franchise pimipin', no doubt about that. Dude is HUGELY popular around the league and led his team to a ring. Just because Lebron's there now doesn't take anything away from that. They just happen to have 2 of the top 3/4 franchise players in the game.

Jaji
08-04-2010, 11:58 PM
Wade's franchise pimipin', no doubt about that. Dude is HUGELY popular around the league and led his team to a ring. Just because Lebron's there now doesn't take anything away from that. They just happen to have 2 of the top 3/4 franchise players in the game.

Wade's not a franchise player IMO. He couldn't get out of the 2nd before Shaq and hasn't been out of the 1st after Shaq. He's not on the same level as Kobe, LBJ or Durant. Howard is the best big man in the game IMO. He can dominate on the defensive end like no one else at the position.

Catfish1314
08-05-2010, 12:00 AM
LeBron - Duh
Wade - Duh
Durant - Led the very young Thunder to a 50-win season in a very competitive Western Conference...in his third season.
Howard - Offense has shown minimal improvement the past two seasons but you can easily build a team around his defense and rebounding. Plus he has shown he can be central force and leader on a championship caliber team.

Kobe and Dirk are definitely franchise caliber players (top 5 players for that matter) but if I was starting a franchise right now, they're both too old to build around at this point. They would need pieces already built around them or built around them immediately.

I want to see what Anthony can do in the playoffs post-Chauncey. Because he hadn't accomplished much in the postseason until Billups got there.

Paul is a franchise caliber player but he has had trouble staying on the court he past few seasons. You need a franchise player who can stay healthy.

Deron Williams is on the cusp. I would be happy to build my franchise around him.

Pending: Derrick Rose, Brandon Roy. They got to the 1st round. Got to get further.

tredigs
08-05-2010, 12:02 AM
Wade's not a franchise player IMO. He couldn't get out of the 2nd before Shaq and hasn't been out of the 1st after Shaq. He's not on the same level as Kobe, LBJ or Durant. Howard is the best big man in the game IMO. He can dominate on the defensive end like no one else at the position.

Dude, his team was HORRIBLE during those years he couldn't get out of the first round. Look at what he does for them (while being doubled/tripled). Against the Celtics in the playoffs he put up 33/6/7 on 56% shooting... that's a PER of 29.4, it doesn't get any better than that.

By your definition, Kobe is also not a franchise player - being that he can't get out of the first round (if he even made the playoffs...) without Shaq or Pau. Wade is every bit as good as Kobe is; and combined with his popularity/merchandise sales, an automatic franchise player. More so than Kobe, actually - given their age.

Lord Leoshes
08-05-2010, 12:02 AM
Wade's not a franchise player IMO. He couldn't get out of the 2nd before Shaq and hasn't been out of the 1st after Shaq. He's not on the same level as Kobe, LBJ or Durant. Howard is the best big man in the game IMO. He can dominate on the defensive end like no one else at the position.



:facepalm:

Heater4life
08-05-2010, 12:07 AM
Wade's not a franchise player IMO. He couldn't get out of the 2nd before Shaq and hasn't been out of the 1st after Shaq. He's not on the same level as Kobe, LBJ or Durant. Howard is the best big man in the game IMO. He can dominate on the defensive end like no one else at the position.

your post screams "ive never watched a Heat game in my life". Surround ANY ONE of those franchise guys up their with the squad Wade's had to work with the past couple seasons and they would make the second round if there lucky.

No homer, Wade is a franchise guy. You build a team around that man. That is the definition of franchise.

Giantwarrior
08-05-2010, 12:08 AM
kobe
lebron
wade
howard
melo
durant

thats it... everyone else is 2nd tier. since other teams cant get the 6 players mentioned, they overpay for players like novitzki roy d-williams cp3 etc.

dhopisthename
08-05-2010, 12:09 AM
this really depends on your definition of a franchise player. for me it means that he can
A. has the ability to take a team to the playoffs with a less then average cast
B. Makes those around him better
I am going to leave off some younger guys who could make it to this list but will need to see more

lebron, kobe, wade, howard, durant, and paul(if he can stay healthy)
just below
melo, deron, nash, duncan(in his prime he was upper teir)

sargon21
08-05-2010, 12:09 AM
kobe
lebron
wade
dwill
paul
rose
dirk
dwight
durant
melo

tredigs
08-05-2010, 12:17 AM
your post screams "ive never watched a Heat game in my life". Surround ANY ONE of those franchise guys up their with the squad Wade's had to work with the past couple seasons and they would make the secong round if there lucky.

No homer, Wade is a franchise guy. You build a team around that man. That is the definition of franchise.

He's completely wrong on this one, there's no doubt about that. The only guy in the league who could've possibly taken them out of the first round would've been Lebron. Kobe, KD and Howard wouldn't be able to pull that off.

Lebron -> Wade -> Durant -> Howard -> Cp3 are the undeniable "FRANCHISE" guys who you would not hesitate for ONE second to build your team around going forward and make a ton of money/have succes for your franchise in doing so.

After that is Kobe (who turning 32 takes a backseat to those guys in franchise building obviously - but you would still probably take the chance on over the next 3-5 years over most other players, and he's still in his late prime), followed by the guys like Deron Williams and Melo (you would prob choose Melo over Kobe going forward now given the 6 year age difference, come to think of it. But at this point he's still not on Kobe's level).

Jaji
08-05-2010, 12:20 AM
your post screams "ive never watched a Heat game in my life". Surround ANY ONE of those franchise guys up their with the squad Wade's had to work with the past couple seasons and they would make the second round if there lucky.

No homer, Wade is a franchise guy. You build a team around that man. That is the definition of franchise.

I'll repeat it: Dwyane Wade is not a franchise player IMO. If Wade is then so is Melo, Rose, Paul, Granger, Stoudemire, D Williams, Bosh and a host of other players. Being the best player on your team doesn't make you a franchise player. Even if it did, Wade's not the best player on his team anymore.

Jaji
08-05-2010, 12:23 AM
He's completely wrong on this one, there's no doubt about that. The only guy in the league who could've possibly taken them out of the first round would've been Lebron. Kobe, KD and Howard wouldn't be able to pull that off.

Lebron -> Wade -> Durant -> Howard -> Cp3 are the undeniable "FRANCHISE" guys who you would not hesitate for ONE second to build your team around going forward and make a ton of money/have succes for your franchise in doing so.

After that is Kobe (who turning 32 takes a backseat to those guys in franchise building obviously - but you would still probably take the chance on over the next 3-5 years over most other players, and he's still in his late prime), followed by the guys like Deron Williams and Melo (you would prob choose Melo over Kobe going forward now given the 6 year age difference, come to think of it. But at this point he's still not on Kobe's level).

Hey bro, I'm very selective who I call a franchise player. Some people's lists have 10-16 guys on it. That's using the term too loosely IMO. If Wade is franchise then Melo has to be too.

Jaji
08-05-2010, 12:23 AM
:facepalm:

:rolleyes:

mamba24
08-05-2010, 12:24 AM
Only 3 players in league last year to avg at least 20 ppg and 6 ast? LBJ, Wade, and ....ROSE so I'm with you!

good point... kobe bryant is definitely not a franchise player... what a moron...

tredigs
08-05-2010, 12:27 AM
I'll repeat it: Dwyane Wade is not a franchise player IMO. If Wade is then so is Melo, Rose, Paul, Granger, Stoudemire, D Williams, Bosh and a host of other players. Being the best player on your team doesn't make you a franchise player. Even if it did, Wade's not the best player on his team anymore.

He's in the top 2 (probably 1st) defensively at the SG position, and consistently averages 27/7/5 with 2stls 1blk. You are ****ing kidding yourself if you don't think that D. Wade is a franchise guy. I truly hope you realize that if him and Kobe swapped places this season that he would be the Finals MVP and the leader of the best team in the league, while Kobe would be out in the first round. When the guy finally got a SEMI-prime Shaq on his team, he took the team on his back and led them to probably the best finals comeback of all time. He is literally one of the top 25 talents to ever play in the league (career wise he is not in the top 25, but talent wise he absolutely is).

You are nuts to disagree with him being a franchise player man. And no, Melo does not have to (although I'd put him at the very bottom of the top 7 franchise players). Wade is a much better player than Melo. Do you realize the discrepancy of the two on defense, or leadership wise? It is not even close.

valade16
08-05-2010, 12:30 AM
A player than can single handed take your team to be a contender because they can possibly beat your team on a given night by themselves...

with that being said...


Wade
Lebron
Kobe
Durant
Dwight
CP3

there are a few that are considered franchise players...but they are only going to be franchise players that take you team to the playoffs and you can never be SERIOUS contenders

The players above...if you put them with a LEGITIMATE #2 players...you will have a shot to go to the finals EVERY year...

BRANDON ROY IS NOT

Rose...we will see...he definitely will be one day

Melo has had a stacked team and just can get over the hump that separates him from Wade and Lebron in his draft class

I'd be willing to bet money you've never seen him play. He is a lock as a franchise player! Dude is a stud at damn near EVERYTHING!

Not to mention he's a lock by your definition. Single handedly beat you? THAT IS ALL THE BLAZERS DO IN THE 4TH QUARTER!

They give the Ball to Roy and say "have at it"...

He is a for sure, anyone who disagrees has a standard WAY too high for a Franchise player.

valade16
08-05-2010, 12:35 AM
Hey bro, I'm very selective who I call a franchise player. Some people's lists have 10-16 guys on it. That's using the term too loosely IMO. If Wade is franchise then Melo has to be too.

Considering their are 29 teams of 15 players each, so you don't think the top .02% of the league are franchise players? :eyebrow:

There are 10 franchise players in the league. Why is Dirk not a franchise player? He led his team to the finals and only lost to another franchise player.

If your definition of Franchise player is "players who can win the title year in and year out" then Franchise players are only players on teams the NBA wants to see win like the Lakers, Celtics (and now Heat)...

tredigs
08-05-2010, 12:36 AM
It actually annoys me that there are literate basketball fans out there who would think that Wade is not a franchise player, just gotta repeat that. Makes you wonder if Jordan never got Pippen + Grant or Rodman - what people would say about him. Every player needs help to make championship runs people.

edit: Was Jordan a franchise guy in his first 4 years in the league to you, Jaji?
When he was averaging somewhere around 33/6/6 with 3stl/1.5blk a game -- but failing to get out of the first round?

Jaji
08-05-2010, 12:40 AM
He's in the top 2 (probably 1st) defensively at the SG position, and consistently averages 27/7/5 with 2stls 1blk. You are ****ing kidding yourself if you don't think that D. Wade is a franchise guy. I truly hope you realize that if him and Kobe swapped places this season that he would be the Finals MVP and the leader of the best team in the league, while Kobe would be out in the first round. When the guy finally got a SEMI-prime Shaq on his team, he took the team on his back and led them to probably the best finals comeback of all time. He is literally one of the top 25 talents to ever play in the league (career wise he is not in the top 25, but talent wise he absolutely is).

You are nuts to disagree with him being a franchise player man. And no, Melo does not have to (although I'd put him at the very bottom of the top 7 franchise players). Wade is a much better player than Melo. Do you realize the discrepancy of the two on defense, or leadership wise? It is not even close.

Wow you think Wade is better than Kobe defensively? I have to disagree with that.

While Wade's Finals performance was certainly admirable I don't believe it would have been possible without Shaq. Not only was Shaq the 2nd best center in the game that year, giving them 20 and 10, he gave Wade something greater than anyone can give him on the court: confidence. It was Shaq hyping up Wade, making him believe in himself, nicknaming him Flash, claiming he was better than Kobe, etc. Shaq's role in Wade "leading" the Heat to the Finals is reminiscent of a father lifting his son closer to the hoop so he can make a shot. Yeah he made it, but he couldn't have done it without that crucial element. Anyone who has had any type of success will tell you it starts with confidence and belief in yourself. Anyone who doesn't know that must not be very successful.

Heater4life
08-05-2010, 12:40 AM
Hey bro, I'm very selective who I call a franchise player. Some people's lists have 10-16 guys on it. That's using the term too loosely IMO. If Wade is franchise then Melo has to be too.

I dare to ask, who do you think are the 5 best players in the nba?

Hellcrooner
08-05-2010, 12:43 AM
30 one per team.

The franchise player is the one with the most shots and improtance of the franchise and who is used as face of said ranchise.

Everybody is got one.

I fyou want to aske how many GOOD franchise players are there thats a differnet questions.

If you wonder how many of the current 30 will end up being second , third options or orle plays in a god team in some years thats a differente question.

Hellcrooner
08-05-2010, 12:44 AM
this really depends on your definition of a franchise player. for me it means that he can
A. has the ability to take a team to the playoffs with a less then average cast
B. Makes those around him better
I am going to leave off some younger guys who could make it to this list but will need to see more

lebron, kobe, wade, howard, durant, and paul(if he can stay healthy)
just below
melo, deron, nash, duncan(in his prime he was upper teir)

like taiking Jason williams, Battier, Miller, Swift and lorenzen wright to the playoofss thrice?

NBAKID7
08-05-2010, 12:45 AM
Bryant
James
Howard
Durant
Wade
Cp3

Those are mine what are ours!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jaji
08-05-2010, 12:48 AM
Considering their are 29 teams of 15 players each, so you don't think the top .02% of the league are franchise players? :eyebrow:

There are 10 franchise players in the league. Why is Dirk not a franchise player? He led his team to the finals and only lost to another franchise player.

If your definition of Franchise player is "players who can win the title year in and year out" then Franchise players are only players on teams the NBA wants to see win like the Lakers, Celtics (and now Heat)...

Wow there's only 29 NBA teams? Talk about losing credibility. :facepalm:

MacFitz92
08-05-2010, 12:48 AM
Kobe
Wade
LeBron
Melo
Durant
Dirk
Dwight
CP3
Deron
Roy
Rose
Nash
Duncan

Younger Franchise players:
Wall
Curry
Evans
Jennings?

MacFitz92
08-05-2010, 12:50 AM
30 one per team.

The franchise player is the one with the most shots and improtance of the franchise and who is used as face of said ranchise.

Everybody is got one.

I fyou want to aske how many GOOD franchise players are there thats a differnet questions.

If you wonder how many of the current 30 will end up being second , third options or orle plays in a god team in some years thats a differente question.

You have a point there. Someone try and explain that Danny Granger isnt the Pacer's franchise player or John Wall isn't the Wizards franchise player.

Hellcrooner
08-05-2010, 12:51 AM
Im going to go with the players that have been able to lead teams into the playoffs

Bosh, Pierce, Garnett, Ray Allen, Igoudala, Wade, Joe Johnson, Shaq, Arenas, JO, Tmac, Lebron, Bogut, Paul, Dirk, Duncan, Ming, Kobe, Pau, Davis, Nash, Durant, Roy, Deron, Melo, Billups,

kjoke
08-05-2010, 12:51 AM
wade not a franchise player?, im pretty sure id want to built a franchise around him :shrug:

The Prodigy
08-05-2010, 12:53 AM
There are only a couple TRUE FRANCHISE PLAYERS.
IMO the only players that can be considered true franchise players are RIGHT NOW. These are the players that can take the worse teams to the at least 40 win seasons.
Kobe
Lebron
Wade
Dwight
Mello
Cp3
Durant
D Will
Dirk

tredigs
08-05-2010, 12:54 AM
Wow you think Wade is better than Kobe defensively? I have to disagree with that.

While Wade's Finals performance was certainly admirable I don't believe it would have been possible without Shaq. Not only was Shaq the 2nd best center in the game that year, giving them 20 and 10, he gave Wade something greater than anyone can give him on the court: confidence. It was Shaq hyping up Wade, making him believe in himself, nicknaming him Flash, claiming he was better than Kobe, etc. Shaq's role in Wade "leading" the Heat to the Finals is reminiscent of a father lifting his son closer to the hoop so he can make a shot. Yeah he made it, but he couldn't have done it without that crucial element. Anyone who has had any type of success will tell you it starts with confidence and belief in yourself. Anyone who doesn't know that must not be very successful.

Wade is at least on Kobe's level defensively, yes. On offense he's as or more impactful than Kobe as well.

And dude you can say whatever you want about Shaq being Wade's baby-daddy or whatever it is you're blathering about, but the bottom line is that Wade is the one that took that team on his back, no matter what encouraging words were being whispered in his ear during halftime...

Again, is Kobe not a franchise player being that he was the 2nd best player on his initial championship run with prime Shaq (even though he was top 3 in the league as well), and couldn't get out of the first round until they got Pau + Bynum?

Bottom line is that your definition is skewed based on not understanding that basketball is a team game. It's about circumstance. KG was undeniably a franchise guy in the late 90's, but without help he couldn't make a finals run. Takes NOTHING away from how dominant he was while he put up 24/14/5 as a top 3 defender in the league. He was the prototypical FRANCHISE player (Just as Michael Jordan was in his early career before he got major help and did anything in the playoffs), you see what I'm saying? ...

Hellcrooner
08-05-2010, 12:54 AM
There are only a couple TRUE FRANCHISE PLAYERS.
IMO the only players that can be considered true franchise players are RIGHT NOW. These are the players that can take the worse teams to the at least 40 win seasons.
Kobe
Lebron
Wade
Dwight
Mello
Cp3
Durant
D Will
Dirk
if we want to make a very selecive lsit then only the players that have lead teams to a TITLe shoudl be franchise.

DUncan, Shaq, KObe, Wade, thats it ( Billups had a superteam with no player beign higher than other, Pierce and Kg where Co frnachises).

Jaji
08-05-2010, 12:55 AM
It actually annoys me that there are literate basketball fans out there who would think that Wade is not a franchise player, just gotta repeat that. Makes you wonder if Jordan never got Pippen + Grant or Rodman - what people would say about him. Every player needs help to make championship runs people.

edit: Was Jordan a franchise guy in his first 4 years in the league to you, Jaji?
When he was averaging somewhere around 33/6/6 with 3stl/1.5blk a game -- but failing to get out of the first round?

Jordan was a young superstar who was clearly destined for great things. I viewed him then how I view LeBron now. Wade is not in his 4th year, he's entering his 8th. Lebron is too but he's only 25 and just about to break out IMO.

Like I said, if Wade is franchise so is Melo. I'm not saying he's not a good player. I'm just saying there aren't as many franchise players as people are saying there are. That's my opinion. The whole question is subjective. There is no definitive answer. To me, the term "franchise player" is reserved for the uber elite. If LeBron and Kobe are, they are the standard. Wade is not on that level. Was T Mac a franchise player?

Jaji
08-05-2010, 12:58 AM
I dare to ask, who do you think are the 5 best players in the nba?

1) LeBron
2) Kobe
3) Durant
4) Wade
5) probably Howard

Hellcrooner
08-05-2010, 12:58 AM
just for the sake of it Jordan didnt do JACK until his 7th season when he awas 27.

ANd never did Jack untuil THomas, Lambieer, Aguirre where just a bunch of dinosaurs, larry was playing every other day because of his back, Kareem was retired and magic and worhty were on thir last legs .


Maybe lebron is waiting for the kgs, shaqs, duncans and kobes and paus to go to eldery asylum before he wins.
The situation is very similar.

Except thst he will have a competitor in Durant, wich Mj never had.

kjoke
08-05-2010, 12:59 AM
wade is better than melo tho, he belongs top 3, and thats been said by almost eveyone except the haters....


lmao who is there only 4 franchise players in the nba?????

masTOR_shake1
08-05-2010, 01:06 AM
LeBron
Wade
Kobe
Dwight
CP3
Durant
Melo
Deron
Roy

:clap:

The Prodigy
08-05-2010, 01:09 AM
if we want to make a very selecive lsit then only the players that have lead teams to a TITLe shoudl be franchise.

DUncan, Shaq, KObe, Wade, thats it ( Billups had a superteam with no player beign higher than other, Pierce and Kg where Co frnachises).

I thought bolding TRUE FRANCHISE PLAYER and RIGHT NOW in my earlier post would have someone from replying why I left out Duncan, Shaq, and other players. There just to old to get it done right now.

The Prodigy
08-05-2010, 01:12 AM
1) LeBron
2) Kobe
3) Durant
4) Wade
5) probably Howard

So how is Durant more of a Franchise player than Wade, Mello, Howard based on what you posted earlier?
They have all accomplished more than him while maintaining superb stats.

valade16
08-05-2010, 01:13 AM
Wow there's only 29 NBA teams? Talk about losing credibility. :facepalm:

I don't count the Clippers, cuz nobody cares bout them...

now that you've responded to my first sentence, try tackling the others.

I think someone who thinks that Dwayne Wade isn't a franchise player loses a little more credibility...

ink
08-05-2010, 01:13 AM
Kobe
LeBron
Wade
Howard
Durant

I think "franchise player" gets thrown around WAY too much.

Good list and I agree with your point.

But Duncan has to be on that list. One of the all-time greats and he's still good even in his twilight years.

I'd also add:

Nash
DWill
CP3
Dirk

tredigs
08-05-2010, 01:13 AM
Jordan was a young superstar who was clearly destined for great things. I viewed him then how I view LeBron now. Wade is not in his 4th year, he's entering his 8th. Lebron is too but he's only 25 and just about to break out IMO.

Like I said, if Wade is franchise so is Melo. I'm not saying he's not a good player. I'm just saying there aren't as many franchise players as people are saying there are. That's my opinion. The whole question is subjective. There is no definitive answer. To me, the term "franchise player" is reserved for the uber elite. If LeBron and Kobe are, they are the standard. Wade is not on that level. Was T Mac a franchise player?

"Franchise Player" isn't about being a top 10 player of all time bud. Even my criteria is probably a little stringent and I included 7 1st tier and 4 more 2nd tier. About 50% of teams have a true "Franchise" guy who with the right supporting cast could be contenders. Kobe is NOT and NEVER WAS a contender without the right supporting cast; he is in the same boat as Wade. Re-read that last paragraph and tell me I'm wrong, or admit that he and Wade are both Franchise players.

And again, stop comparing Melo to Wade. If you want to start a "Wade v Kobe" comparison thread in the other forum, I'll be glad to break it down why Wade is just as good as him, but stop insulting Wade by comparing him to Melo. One plays ELITE defense, the other doesn't even try most of the time on that end. Wade's undeniably a top 3-5 player in the league (I say 2nd), would you agree with that?

I'm not putting any more energy in this by the way. You either get it or you don't.

THE GIPPER
08-05-2010, 01:13 AM
its such a joke when ppl say melo isnt a franchise player hes so underrated on this forum.....the guy took a team who had the worst record in the league (17wins) to a 43 win season and a playoff birth as a ROOKIE

THE MTL
08-05-2010, 01:15 AM
I think you guys are confusing franchise with ELITE players. Franchise players are players you can build a franchise around and a player like Nash comes to mind as well.

Lebron James
Kobe Bryant
Kevin Durant
Dwayne Wade
Chris Paul
Dwight Howard

^^^^^If u give the above a LEGIT 2nd option you will be contending for a championship EVERY YEAR!!!!! These are the ELITE players in the NBA


Deron Williams
Carmelo Anthony
Steve Nash
Brandon Roy
Tim Duncan
Dirk Nowitski

cle12152433
08-05-2010, 01:16 AM
LeBron isnt a franchise player anymore.....Its DW3's team, and his alone.

THE MTL
08-05-2010, 01:18 AM
LeBron isnt a franchise player anymore.....Its DW3's team, and his alone.


Lebron James is still a franchise player and is Top 2 talent in the NBA (arguably the best in the game). Its just he is on the Heat now.

Stop hating cause: Kobe got to play with Shaq. Magic with Kareem. West got to play with Chamberlain. (im mad Lakers comparisons only come to mind)

cle12152433
08-05-2010, 01:19 AM
Lebron James is still a franchise player and is Top 2 talent in the NBA (arguably the best in the game). Its just he is on the Heat now.

Well, however you put it, because he is on the Heat, he will never be THE franchise player.

tredigs
08-05-2010, 01:21 AM
its such a joke when ppl say melo isnt a franchise player hes so underrated on this forum.....the guy took a team who had the worst record in the league (17wins) to a 43 win season and a playoff birth as a ROOKIE

That team also had Marcus Camby and a prime Andre Miller come in for a full season (Camby played like a quarter of the season the year before), so it wasn't as if he just came in to the same team and turned it around. But there's no doubt that 'Melo is a franchise guy (albeit not quite on Wade/Bron's level), but he's a legitimate franchise player at the age of 26. I just don't think he's winning a championship on this team with the level of defense he generally puts out.

Gators123
08-05-2010, 01:21 AM
LeBron isnt a franchise player anymore.....Its DW3's team, and his alone.

Unbelievable :pity:

Jaji
08-05-2010, 01:21 AM
Wade is at least on Kobe's level defensively, yes. On offense he's as or more impactful than Kobe as well.

And dude you can say whatever you want about Shaq being Wade's baby-daddy or whatever it is you're blathering about, but the bottom line is that Wade is the one that took that team on his back, no matter what encouraging words were being whispered in his ear during halftime...

Again, is Kobe not a franchise player being that he was the 2nd best player on his initial championship run with prime Shaq (even though he was top 3 in the league as well), and couldn't get out of the first round until they got Pau + Bynum?

Bottom line is that your definition is skewed based on not understanding that basketball is a team game. It's about circumstance. KG was undeniably a franchise guy in the late 90's, but without help he couldn't make a finals run. Takes NOTHING away from how dominant he was while he put up 24/14/5 as a top 3 defender in the league. He was the prototypical FRANCHISE player (Just as Michael Jordan was in his early career before he got major help and did anything in the playoffs), you see what I'm saying? ...

I see what you're saying but I don't think you're seeing what I'm saying.

I never said Wade isn't a franchise player because Shaq was on his team. But his Finals performance alone doesn't make him a franchise player. Wade is not in a class with Kobe and LeBron. He's just not. Maybe its because his height limits him, maybe its because he shoots under 30% from 3. Whatever the reason, he's just not on their level. And that includes the defensive end where those guys are 1st team all-defense. I really don't see how you can say Wade is a better defender than Kobe when Kobe beats him out for that honor at the same position every year (:confused:).

Wade is not on that level. I'll say it again and keep repeating it: you can't count Wade and not Melo. And that opens the floodgates for a whole lot of other players too. Why isn't Monta Ellis a franchise player? Why not Danny Granger? Why not Chris Bosh? Brandon Roy? It has to stop somewhere.

Jaji
08-05-2010, 01:25 AM
just for the sake of it Jordan didnt do JACK until his 7th season when he awas 27.

ANd never did Jack untuil THomas, Lambieer, Aguirre where just a bunch of dinosaurs, larry was playing every other day because of his back, Kareem was retired and magic and worhty were on thir last legs .


Maybe lebron is waiting for the kgs, shaqs, duncans and kobes and paus to go to eldery asylum before he wins.
The situation is very similar.

Except thst he will have a competitor in Durant, wich Mj never had.

Very dangerous post on this site :laugh2:.

Jaji
08-05-2010, 01:27 AM
"Franchise Player" isn't about being a top 10 player of all time bud. Even my criteria is probably a little stringent and I included 7 1st tier and 4 more 2nd tier. About 50% of teams have a true "Franchise" guy who with the right supporting cast could be contenders. Kobe is NOT and NEVER WAS a contender without the right supporting cast; he is in the same boat as Wade. Re-read that last paragraph and tell me I'm wrong, or admit that he and Wade are both Franchise players.

And again, stop comparing Melo to Wade. If you want to start a "Wade v Kobe" comparison thread in the other forum, I'll be glad to break it down why Wade is just as good as him, but stop insulting Wade by comparing him to Melo. One plays ELITE defense, the other doesn't even try most of the time on that end. Wade's undeniably a top 3-5 player in the league (I say 2nd), would you agree with that?

I'm not putting any more energy in this by the way. You either get it or you don't.

It's called an opinion, oh wise one :rolleyes:.

Hellcrooner
08-05-2010, 01:27 AM
Very dangerous post on this site :laugh2:.

but true nonethless.

if there had been a psd in 1989 some dudes woudl be denying Jordan the Franchise label and some even calling him a failure.

ridicule as it is, thats what woudl hae happned.

In that same case, in 1990 if i had said Pippen was a franchise player everybdoy wodl have laughed at me and bashed me.
Well go figure he lead the Mjless bulls to 50 wins and was a bad call from refs away from conference finals....

Jaji
08-05-2010, 01:29 AM
So how is Durant more of a Franchise player than Wade, Mello, Howard based on what you posted earlier?
They have all accomplished more than him while maintaining superb stats.

Howard was on my list of franchise players. And Durant is young, hasn't even reached his prime yet but still led the league in scoring that's why. He'll only get better.

Jaji
08-05-2010, 01:33 AM
but true nonethless.

if there had been a psd in 1989 some dudes woudl be denying Jordan the Franchise label and some even calling him a failure.

ridicule as it is, thats what woudl hae happned.

In that same case, in 1990 if i had said Pippen was a franchise player everybdoy wodl have laughed at me and bashed me.
Well go figure he lead the Mjless bulls to 50 wins and was a bad call from refs away from conference finals....

Oh I agree. The LeBron hate is eerily familiar to how everyone denied Jordan's greatness back in the day. Basketball fans were split down the middle, some though Jordan was the GOAT, others thought he was a goat. It's hilarious to me how people have actually convinced themselves that LeBron is a bum.

Jaji
08-05-2010, 01:35 AM
I don't count the Clippers, cuz nobody cares bout them...

now that you've responded to my first sentence, try tackling the others.

I think someone who thinks that Dwayne Wade isn't a franchise player loses a little more credibility...

Not worth my time. And you're lucky you even got this.

The Prodigy
08-05-2010, 01:37 AM
I see what you're saying but I don't think you're seeing what I'm saying.

I never said Wade isn't a franchise player because Shaq was on his team. But his Finals performance alone doesn't make him a franchise player. Wade is not in a class with Kobe and LeBron. He's just not. Maybe its because his height limits him, maybe its because he shoots under 30% from 3. Whatever the reason, he's just not on their level. And that includes the defensive end where those guys are 1st team all-defense. I really don't see how you can say Wade is a better defender than Kobe when Kobe beats him out for that honor at the same position every year (:confused:).

Wade is not on that level. I'll say it again and keep repeating it: you can't count Wade and not Melo. And that opens the floodgates for a whole lot of other players too. Why isn't Monta Ellis a franchise player? Why not Danny Granger? Why not Chris Bosh? Brandon Roy? It has to stop somewhere.

Theres more than a few things wrong with your post.
First off is that all the NBA 1st teams and what not are more popularity contest more than anything else, there are many flaws in it.

Secondly Wade is on the same level as Lebron and Kobe, anything those two can do he also can do just as good if not better, please list me the things those two can do better than him and then I'll list the things Wade does better than both of them for each one you list.

Third Wade has done everything Mello has done in this league and more so if your saying Wade isn't on Lebron and Kobe Level then you shouldn't put Mello on Wade level at all.

Lastly you compared Mello and Wade to the likes of Granger and Ellis.

The Prodigy
08-05-2010, 01:39 AM
Howard was on my list of franchise players. And Durant is young, hasn't even reached his prime yet but still led the league in scoring that's why. He'll only get better.

I know Howard is on your list but you put Kevin Durant above him thats why I asked how is Durant more of a franchise players than the players I named. I know we are all entitled to our opinions but I don't understand how you see that way.

Evolution23
08-05-2010, 01:40 AM
Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Durant, Melo, Cp3, Deron, Nowitzki, Amare, Roy

DoJoTheSlasher
08-05-2010, 01:40 AM
How is Dwight a franchise player? He may be great to build around but in terms of taking over and leading a team he isn't. If you need to win, you can't depend on him at all.


Kobe, LeBron, Wade, Dirk, Durant, Williams, Paul.

Maybe Roy, Howard (just so I don't piss off Magic fans), Melo and Rose.

HoopsDrive
08-05-2010, 01:41 AM
LBJ, Wade, Kobe, Howard, Durant, Dirk, Williams and CP3.

tredigs
08-05-2010, 01:41 AM
I see what you're saying but I don't think you're seeing what I'm saying.

I never said Wade isn't a franchise player because Shaq was on his team. But his Finals performance alone doesn't make him a franchise player. Wade is not in a class with Kobe and LeBron. He's just not. Maybe its because his height limits him, maybe its because he shoots under 30% from 3. Whatever the reason, he's just not on their level. And that includes the defensive end where those guys are 1st team all-defense. I really don't see how you can say Wade is a better defender than Kobe when Kobe beats him out for that honor at the same position every year (:confused:).

Wade is not on that level. I'll say it again and keep repeating it: you can't count Wade and not Melo. And that opens the floodgates for a whole lot of other players too. Why isn't Monta Ellis a franchise player? Why not Danny Granger? Why not Chris Bosh? Brandon Roy? It has to stop somewhere.

Wade is better than Kobe, period... end of statement:

Career stats?

Wade = 25.4 pts (.565 ts%) 4.9 reb 5.6 ast 1.8 stl 1 blk w/ PER = 25.7 and WinShare/48 = .189

Kobe = 24.8 pts (.557 ts%) 5.2 reb 4.6 ast 1.5 stl .5 blk w/ PER = 23.5 and WinShare/48 = .187

Their playoff stats are even more skewed in Wades favor ^

As far as defense, if you want to use the "how come he gets 1st team defense over Wade getting 2nd team?" argument, then fine - But just know that to me it only shows your ignorance. It's like in baseball when people look at "Gold Gloves" over advanced stats like UZR to compare who the actual better fielder is. It's a popularity contest, bro - just like the all star game and regular all league voting; means very little and is often wrong. If "Chronz" or somebody else with access to advanced Defensive stats via "Synergy" were in here, I'd have them prove to you that he's top 2 defensively at the sg position at worst.

Bottom line is that I'm generally biting my tongue when I say Wade and Kobe are equal, because I feel like Wade has him slightly beat. But you saying he's not a franchise player what-so-ever? Just ignorance, sorry.

The Prodigy
08-05-2010, 01:46 AM
Wade is better than Kobe, period... end of statement:

Career stats?

Wade = 25.4 pts (.565 ts%) 4.9 reb 5.6 ast 1.8 stl 1 blk w/ PER = 25.7 and WinShare/48 = .189

Kobe = 24.8 pts (.557 ts%) 5.2 reb 4.6 ast 1.5 stl .5 blk w/ PER = 23.5 and WinShare/48 = .187

Their playoff stats are even more skewed in Wades favor ^

As far as defense, if you want to use the "how come he gets 1st team defense over Wade getting 2nd team?" argument, then fine - But just know that to me it only shows your ignorance. It's like in baseball when people look at "Gold Gloves" over advanced stats like UZR to compare who the actual better fielder is. It's a popularity contest, bro - just like the all star game and regular all league voting; means very little and is often wrong. If "Chronz" or somebody else with access to advanced Defensive stats via "Synergy" were in here, I'd have them prove to you that he's top 2 defensively at the sg position at worst.

Bottom line is that I'm generally biting my tongue when I say Wade and Kobe are equal, because I feel like Wade has him slightly beat. But you saying he's not a franchise player what-so-ever? Just ignorance, sorry.

I guess you and me see things eye to eye. And I feel the exact same way with the bolded part.

yanksknicksgmen
08-05-2010, 01:49 AM
Kobe
LeBron
Durant
Howard
Rose
CP3
Wade
Wall
Melo
DWill
Roy
Evans

Sorry if I missed any.

So your going to put John Wall a rookie who has not even played his first NBA

game yet and leave out Dirk, Nash, Duncan, Bosh.

ajsulli1919
08-05-2010, 01:54 AM
In my opinion a franchise player is a player that can lead a team of not the greatest players into the playoffs pretty much all on his shoulders. Only 16 teams make the playoffs. A guy doesn't have to be Kobe Bryant or Dwayne Wade to be a franchise player but there is for sure a difference in a 1st and 2nd tier player. Going into this season here is a list of players that could be considered franchise players.

Joe Johnson(2nd tier)
Derrick Rose(2nd tier, will become 1st tier someday)
Dirk Nowitizki(1st tier but at the end of the list)
Carmelo Anthony(1st tier)
Stephen Curry(2nd tier, at the end of the list though)
Danny Granger(2nd tier, end of the list)
Kobe Bryant(1st tier)
Pau Gasol(2nd tier)
Dwayne Wade(1st tier)
LeBron James(1st tier)
Chris Bosh(2nd tier, end of the list, especially as the 3rd option now)
Carlos Boozer(2nd tier)
Chris Paul(2nd tier, close to 1st)
Amare Stoudemire(2nd tier, end of this list)
Kevin Durant(1st tier)
Dwight Howard(1st tier)
Steve Nash(2nd tier, end of the list, a few year ago top of the list, could even be considered a 1st tier player those MVP seasons but he had plenty of help and no title ever though)
Brandon Roy(2nd tier)
Tim Duncan(2nd tier, used to be 1st)
Deron Williams(2nd tier, close to 1st)

As you can see I have a lot of 2nd tier players and some of them are better than others. For example Deron Williams(who would be at the very top of the 2nd tier list) compared to Amare Stoudemire(who would be towards the end of the 2nd tier list)

Based on this list for the most part you could put a 1st tier player with a 2nd tier player and have a very good shot at winning a championship. Best example would be Kobe with Pau since they just won the championship. Another example would be putting Dwight and Deron together...they'd have a good shot at winning a title assuming they have the correct roll players.
When I say putting a 1st and 2nd tier player together though I mean a PF or C and a guard, not a guard and a guard together.

There are about 10-15 players that I could've listed as 2nd tier players but I believe them to be 3rd tier players, they could be considered a "franchise player" but I think that would only be to their respective teams, not to us. A good example could be Andre Iguodola.

BoltLakerPadre
08-05-2010, 02:01 AM
Kobe
LeBron
Wade
Howard
Durant

I think "franchise player" gets thrown around WAY too much.

Personally I think "superstar" gets thrown around too much. A franchise player is probably more common, and would include guys like DWill, Nash, CP3, BRoy, Melo (except he isn't going to sign), JJ, Dirk, Duncan. Anyone a team is willing to build around or pay max money to.

dayreezy
08-05-2010, 02:05 AM
FRANCHISE PLAYER - a franchise player is an athlete who is not simply the best player on their team, but a player that the team can build their "franchise" (team) around for the foreseeable future.........

THIS SHOULD HELP THE DEBATE... I WOULD GIVE MY OPINION IF IT DIDNT COMPARE TO OTHERS.... THERES A FEW OFF OF THE LIST BUT IMA KEEP THAT TO MYSELF

tredigs
08-05-2010, 02:05 AM
Personally I think "superstar" gets thrown around too much. A franchise player is probably more common, and would include guys like DWill, Nash, CP3, BRoy, Melo (except he isn't going to sign), JJ, Dirk, Duncan. Anyone a team is willing to build around or pay max money to.

^ Great point, I think for the most part this comment is spot on.

A good litmus test is this question: "Would your favorite team sign this player right now to a max-contract and expect him to lead your team to the playoffs?". If the answer is yes, then that is a franchise player.

Hellcrooner
08-05-2010, 02:36 AM
^ Great point, I think for the most part this comment is spot on.

A good litmus test is this question: "Would your favorite team sign this player right now to a max-contract and expect him to lead your team to the playoffs?". If the answer is yes, then that is a franchise player.

tht does not exaclty work like that.

I mean, lakers if sigend any other player in the league to mx player it woudl eb to be second banana behind kobe or third banana behind kobe and pau so i dont think thats a good measeure.

Hellcrooner
08-05-2010, 02:40 AM
In my opinion a franchise player is a player that can lead a team of not the greatest players into the playoffs pretty much all on his shoulders. Only 16 teams make the playoffs. A guy doesn't have to be Kobe Bryant or Dwayne Wade to be a franchise player but there is for sure a difference in a 1st and 2nd tier player. Going into this season here is a list of players that could be considered franchise players.

Joe Johnson(2nd tier)
Derrick Rose(2nd tier, will become 1st tier someday)
Dirk Nowitizki(1st tier but at the end of the list)
Carmelo Anthony(1st tier)
Stephen Curry(2nd tier, at the end of the list though)
Danny Granger(2nd tier, end of the list)
Kobe Bryant(1st tier)
Pau Gasol(2nd tier)
Dwayne Wade(1st tier)
LeBron James(1st tier)
Chris Bosh(2nd tier, end of the list, especially as the 3rd option now)
Carlos Boozer(2nd tier)
Chris Paul(2nd tier, close to 1st)
Amare Stoudemire(2nd tier, end of this list)
Kevin Durant(1st tier)
Dwight Howard(1st tier)
Steve Nash(2nd tier, end of the list, a few year ago top of the list, could even be considered a 1st tier player those MVP seasons but he had plenty of help and no title ever though)
Brandon Roy(2nd tier)
Tim Duncan(2nd tier, used to be 1st)
Deron Williams(2nd tier, close to 1st)

As you can see I have a lot of 2nd tier players and some of them are better than others. For example Deron Williams(who would be at the very top of the 2nd tier list) compared to Amare Stoudemire(who would be towards the end of the 2nd tier list)

Based on this list for the most part you could put a 1st tier player with a 2nd tier player and have a very good shot at winning a championship. Best example would be Kobe with Pau since they just won the championship. Another example would be putting Dwight and Deron together...they'd have a good shot at winning a title assuming they have the correct roll players.
When I say putting a 1st and 2nd tier player together though I mean a PF or C and a guard, not a guard and a guard together.

There are about 10-15 players that I could've listed as 2nd tier players but I believe them to be 3rd tier players, they could be considered a "franchise player" but I think that would only be to their respective teams, not to us. A good example could be Andre Iguodola.

Most rational post in the thread.

BU you forogt if you put TWO of senc tier franchise players togheter and surreound them wiht a GREAT cast they will win the ring Too

John Walls Era
08-05-2010, 03:09 AM
In my opinion a franchise player is a player that can lead a team of not the greatest players into the playoffs pretty much all on his shoulders. Only 16 teams make the playoffs. A guy doesn't have to be Kobe Bryant or Dwayne Wade to be a franchise player but there is for sure a difference in a 1st and 2nd tier player. Going into this season here is a list of players that could be considered franchise players.

Joe Johnson(2nd tier)
Derrick Rose(2nd tier, will become 1st tier someday)
Dirk Nowitizki(1st tier but at the end of the list)
Carmelo Anthony(1st tier)
Stephen Curry(2nd tier, at the end of the list though)
Danny Granger(2nd tier, end of the list)
Kobe Bryant(1st tier)
Pau Gasol(2nd tier)
Dwayne Wade(1st tier)
LeBron James(1st tier)
Chris Bosh(2nd tier, end of the list, especially as the 3rd option now)
Carlos Boozer(2nd tier)
Chris Paul(2nd tier, close to 1st)
Amare Stoudemire(2nd tier, end of this list)
Kevin Durant(1st tier)
Dwight Howard(1st tier)
Steve Nash(2nd tier, end of the list, a few year ago top of the list, could even be considered a 1st tier player those MVP seasons but he had plenty of help and no title ever though)
Brandon Roy(2nd tier)
Tim Duncan(2nd tier, used to be 1st)
Deron Williams(2nd tier, close to 1st)

As you can see I have a lot of 2nd tier players and some of them are better than others. For example Deron Williams(who would be at the very top of the 2nd tier list) compared to Amare Stoudemire(who would be towards the end of the 2nd tier list)

Based on this list for the most part you could put a 1st tier player with a 2nd tier player and have a very good shot at winning a championship. Best example would be Kobe with Pau since they just won the championship. Another example would be putting Dwight and Deron together...they'd have a good shot at winning a title assuming they have the correct roll players.
When I say putting a 1st and 2nd tier player together though I mean a PF or C and a guard, not a guard and a guard together.

There are about 10-15 players that I could've listed as 2nd tier players but I believe them to be 3rd tier players, they could be considered a "franchise player" but I think that would only be to their respective teams, not to us. A good example could be Andre Iguodola.

:clap: You took the time to write this much and you're right.

sargon21
08-05-2010, 03:11 AM
i love this topic, but anways what are your guys feelings on granger? he cant/hasnt led his team to the playoffs, so can he ever really be a 1st option on a championship team? i just dont see it, but rather as a truly GREAT 2nd option on a championship team ... for example if you were to put him on my team the bulls, we would have a big 3, with rose, granger, and boozer... while many might disagree (lot of rose hate on this site, for good reason sometimes), rose would be the 1st option on that team, as he's only going to get better, while granger would be a clear 2nd, and fight in great, while boozer would be a great 3rd option as well... so can Granger ever be a 1st option?? or will he have to go to a team like the bulls, or another team with similar pieces, to win a championship?

Jaji
08-05-2010, 10:24 AM
Wade is better than Kobe, period... end of statement:

Career stats?

Wade = 25.4 pts (.565 ts%) 4.9 reb 5.6 ast 1.8 stl 1 blk w/ PER = 25.7 and WinShare/48 = .189

Kobe = 24.8 pts (.557 ts%) 5.2 reb 4.6 ast 1.5 stl .5 blk w/ PER = 23.5 and WinShare/48 = .187

Their playoff stats are even more skewed in Wades favor ^

As far as defense, if you want to use the "how come he gets 1st team defense over Wade getting 2nd team?" argument, then fine - But just know that to me it only shows your ignorance. It's like in baseball when people look at "Gold Gloves" over advanced stats like UZR to compare who the actual better fielder is. It's a popularity contest, bro - just like the all star game and regular all league voting; means very little and is often wrong. If "Chronz" or somebody else with access to advanced Defensive stats via "Synergy" were in here, I'd have them prove to you that he's top 2 defensively at the sg position at worst.

Bottom line is that I'm generally biting my tongue when I say Wade and Kobe are equal, because I feel like Wade has him slightly beat. But you saying he's not a franchise player what-so-ever? Just ignorance, sorry.

And that's really where this conversation can end. Agree to disagree (with a :confused: and :facepalm:). I just don't see that at all. Kobe is one of the all time greats. Top 5 of all time probably. I just can't fathom how anyone can say Wade is over Kobe. That statement makes my head hurt so I'll just stop.

Jaji
08-05-2010, 10:26 AM
I know Howard is on your list but you put Kevin Durant above him thats why I asked how is Durant more of a franchise players than the players I named. I know we are all entitled to our opinions but I don't understand how you see that way.

I don't understand what you're saying because I never listed my franchise players in any order so what are you talking about when you say I "put Durant ahead of Howard?" :confused:

Russell_Roberts
08-05-2010, 10:29 AM
every team has a franchise player

mikantsass
08-05-2010, 10:32 AM
Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Howard, Durant, Melo, Paul, DWilliams, Nowitski, Nash, Duncan still

Potential Future franchise guys but not there yet:
Rose, Evans, Mayo, Lopez, Bogut, Cousins, Wall, Griffin, Oden

Russell_Roberts
08-05-2010, 10:38 AM
who ever said wade is better than kobe... please go to the nearest bridge with no water and jump

Jayrock
08-05-2010, 11:36 AM
1 for each team

/thread

Niro
08-05-2010, 12:00 PM
Kobe
LeBron
Wade
Howard
Durant

I think "franchise player" gets thrown around WAY too much.

this +melo,dirk,dwill and cp3

dirk maybe not anymore but he was at least until this year

DoJoTheSlasher
08-05-2010, 12:33 PM
Dirk is still a franchise player. The way his style (finesse) he will be able to put up these stats even when he is around 34-35.

1st Tier:

Kobe
LeBron
Wade
Dirk
Durant
Williams
Paul

2nd Tier:

Roy
Howard
Duncan (used to be at the top of 1st tier)
Nash
Carmelo
Pierce

3rd Tier:

Rose (he has to show he can take his team to next level)
Bosh (this isn't because he plays with Bron/Wade, he will always be a 3rd option, MAYBE 2nd)
Johnson
Granger
Iggy
etc....