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kswissdaf
08-04-2010, 09:56 PM
Sorry Lakers fans im going to take a lot of heat for this (No Pun intended) but i predict Kobe has a pretty major drop off. People seem to forget all the injuries he had last even though he is was tough and played through them all. Lets face it Kobe is old not getting old but old due to the fact he came straight at of high school. There was an article in ESPN the magazine saying Players that come out of high school around 31 and college players around 33. I think he will miss around 20 games this season and Pau will have to step up big time for them to 3 peat, Your thoughts

PC
08-04-2010, 10:04 PM
He played all year with countless injuries and he hasn't had an offseason to just rest in a while since he played for team USA. This entire summer off will do wonders for him, really no reason to believe Kobe will have a huge drop off...

rjvacad
08-04-2010, 10:06 PM
Kobe has a point to prove!

SiR Lakers III
08-04-2010, 10:08 PM
I dont think so buddy. If you actually watch the Lakers play when Kobe's not hurt he dominates pretty much every game. Only reason he had a few bad games during post season was because he had no rest and games were being played every other day. Now that Kobe has time to rest during the summer and just recently got surgery taken care of. I think Kobe has another 4-5 prime years left before he loses his step. Kobe's game doesn't rely on athleticism btw like your boy wade and lebron. Kobe can actually shoot the ball from anywhere on the court off balance or just in rhythm

Evolution23
08-04-2010, 10:08 PM
Kobe is gona be ready come playoff time.. u better hope Lebron and Bosh are there too.

Giants-49ers-Ws
08-04-2010, 10:09 PM
your a heat fan, wishful thinking..

John Walls Era
08-04-2010, 10:10 PM
Kobe is always ready to play... but even if his numbers do drop, his team is still good enough to win (Check NBA 2010 finals).

Kobe2324
08-04-2010, 10:11 PM
I Predict that his numbers are about the same as last year on a better percentage and wins MVP cause Lebron is stupid and went to the Heat.

RapOZo
08-04-2010, 10:14 PM
I respect your hopes, but in my opinion I believe his injuries are not that serious but just those kind that only need to rest them along with some therapy, I believe his body is tired but he still young, so he can still regenerate muscles and overcome fatigue. Kobe is definitely down road but he still have 3-4 seasons of efficient high level basketball.

why you care so much about Kobe's health? u scared? lol
he might come up with some killer instinct and ripped your trio off
but hopefully for you he is done!

$KnicksAndKobe$
08-04-2010, 10:15 PM
They said that last year ...

Did Jordan have a major drop when he was 33? nope
Kobe always works harder than anyone else, for example he comes in early for workout and usually has a special diet. Players like these don't have a major drop until their 35-36.

He played with multiple injuries last year and finally gets to rest and heal is knee (surgery) Remember when Barkley said Kobe getting old? Kobe then had like 10 strait 30+ points per game with more assists and rebounds than his season average.

I don't see how Kobe gets worse when he will be injury free for the start of the season. Players like him condition their body's to play past their limit ... and I think he showed that this year.

tredigs
08-04-2010, 10:15 PM
He played all year with countless injuries and he hasn't had an offseason to just rest in a while since he played for team USA. This entire summer off will do wonders for him, really no reason to believe Kobe will have a huge drop off...

I'd agree with this. Taking the summer off for once is going to do him a lot of good. I think he'll actually be healthier than he was last year. There's no doubt he has a lot of miles, but he hasn't shown any signs of a "significant" drop off.

That said, as I've said plenty of times, the real key to that teams success IS their bigs. Kobe can have an off series (by superstar standards) and they'll be able to power through it most of the time so long as their bigs come to play. The Thunder series last post-season was a good example of that. There's probably a lot of (non-Laker) fans that would agree with me in saying that Pau was equal to Kobe, if not the best player on the Lakers the last 4 months of the season + the playoffs last year. I don't think that's going to change too much going forward.

Edit:



They said that last year ...

Did Jordan have a major drop when he was 33? nope
Kobe always works harder than anyone else, for example he comes in early for workout and usually has a special diet. Players like these don't have a major drop until their 35-36.

He played with multiple injuries last year and finally gets to rest and heal is knee (surgery) Remember when Barkley said Kobe getting old? Kobe then had like 10 strait 30+ points per game with more assists and rebounds than his season average.

I don't see how Kobe gets worse when he will be injury free for the start of the season. Players like him condition their body's to play past their limit ... and I think he showed that this year.



Ehh -- Jordan is a bad analogy for Kobe as far as health is concerned. MJ took time off to play minor-league baseball (much easier on your body than the grind of a basketball season), and came into the league after 3 years of college ball (much shorter seasons than NBA). He also didn't play during the summer as much as Kobe did. Their mileage at the same age is non-comparable.

blastmasta26
08-04-2010, 10:16 PM
At worst, he'll have a slight drop off statistically. But it's not gonna be significant, Lakers will still be the team to beat.

Tmath
08-04-2010, 10:19 PM
I have a feeling Lebron will have a serious injury this season. You heard it hear first

show34
08-04-2010, 10:25 PM
yeah mike didnt have one he was still ballin at a high level at 36 so what ya sayin keep ya stuff in shape kobe they want to see you falter kiddo

$KnicksAndKobe$
08-04-2010, 10:25 PM
Ehh -- Jordan is a bad analogy for Kobe as far as health is concerned. MJ took time off to play minor-league baseball (much easier on your body than the grind of a basketball season), and came into the league after 3 years of college ball (much shorter seasons than NBA). He also didn't play during the summer as much as Kobe did. Their mileage at the same age is non-comparable.

Maybe Jordan was the wrong word ... but I meant super superstars in general are still great whether their 29 or 34, age is just a number for these type of players until like 39 lol.

But ye, Kobe played great with injures ... so to me it makes sense that he won't drop off after a rest and start the season healthy and rested.

LA-DYNASTY248
08-04-2010, 10:26 PM
WAYYYYYY OFF!
Kobe infact should have one of his best years,capped off with a 3peat!
I don't see anyone stopping a 100 percent kobe this year.sorry!

Jeff559
08-04-2010, 10:26 PM
Kobe will last due to his skill level. Even after he loses a step athletically, he will still put up 24 a game because he doesnt rely as heavily on his athletism as other top players.

JordansBulls
08-04-2010, 10:28 PM
I'd agree with this. Taking the summer off for once is going to do him a lot of good. I think he'll actually be healthier than he was last year. There's no doubt he has a lot of miles, but he hasn't shown any signs of a "significant" drop off.

That said, as I've said plenty of times, the real key to that teams success IS their bigs. Kobe can have an off series (by superstar standards) and they'll be able to power through it most of the time so long as their bigs come to play. The Thunder series last post-season was a good example of that. There's probably a lot of (non-Laker) fans that would agree with me in saying that Pau was equal to Kobe, if not the best player on the Lakers the last 4 months of the season + the playoffs last year. I don't think that's going to change too much going forward.



I agree, especially since Gasol had more overall production last year leading in both PER and Win Shares during the season and leading in Win Shares for the entire league thru the playoffs.
Kobe is there best player, but Gasol is now there most productive.

Hawkeye15
08-04-2010, 10:29 PM
Kobe has been on a slight decline, no doubt, which I expect to continue over a 100 game schedule. But having a full offseason to rest will slow that down.
The Lakers fortunes are dependant on their bigs. Period. Kobe is a closer, but without a healthy Bynum/Gasol, their paint protection makes them very vulnerable. Kobe is no longer capable of physically carrying a team for 100 games. He needs help. If/when he gets it, Lakers win.

cubs0707
08-04-2010, 10:30 PM
i hope im not the only one who really values kswissdafs predictions LOL

Enemey
08-04-2010, 10:30 PM
your a heat fan, wishful thinking..

:laugh2:

LakeShowRaider
08-04-2010, 10:30 PM
Sorry Lakers fans im going to take a lot of heat for this (No Pun intended) but i predict Kobe has a pretty major drop off. People seem to forget all the injuries he had last even though he is was tough and played through them all. Lets face it Kobe is old not getting old but old due to the fact he came straight at of high school. There was an article in ESPN the magazine saying Players that come out of high school around 31 and college players around 33. I think he will miss around 20 games this season and Pau will have to step up big time for them to 3 peat, Your thoughts

You don't compare stats for normal players to Kobe. He is one of a kind. That age **** don't apply to him.

Kobe will be Kobe til he retires. Kobe is the closest thing to Jordan ever. Was Jordan sorry at 36? No, so neither will Kobe. 3peat

Faycem
08-04-2010, 10:31 PM
People seems to forget that until he injured his finger in December, he was playing the best BBall of his career last year. I predict that kind of level all the season long.

tredigs
08-04-2010, 10:39 PM
Maybe Jordan was the wrong word ... but I meant super superstars in general are still great whether their 29 or 34, age is just a number for these type of players until like 39 lol.

But ye, Kobe played great with injures ... so to me it makes sense that he won't drop off after a rest and start the season healthy and rested.

Well, the only comparable player that comes to mind is T-Mac - who came out of high school just like Kobe and had a 5-6 year prime where him and Kobe were playing at a pretty similar level - then the injury bug hit, and the mileage caught up... and he just hasn't been the same since. Kobe has already lasted a full 3 years past when T-Mac was playing at a high level (considering he came in the year prior), so his clock may indeed be ticking. That said, maybe he'll just continue to take the summers off and can push through 3-5 more years at an extremely high level. I don't put too much past that guy.

Do you have an example of another superstar-type player who came out of high school and didn't start to taper off in his early 30's? KG's 33, came in the year prior to Kobe and has noticeable slowed as well. It could be that it's around the corner. -shrug



You don't compare stats for normal players to Kobe. He is one of a kind. That age **** don't apply to him.

Kobe will be Kobe til he retires. Kobe is the closest thing to Jordan ever. Was Jordan sorry at 36? No, so neither will Kobe. 3peat

Simma down and drop your mace, Laker homers. It's a legitimate question. Like I already mentioned earlier in the thread - Jordan is a terrible example for Kobe. He came after 3 years of college and took a mid-career retirement.

shep33
08-04-2010, 10:39 PM
Nah I don't think so. An injury plagued Kobe, with a broken right index finger, a messed up knee, and 3 straight trips into the Finals (lot of minutes) while playing on the Olympic team during that span still lead his team to back to back rings.

When people see Kobe's numbers, particularly his percentages drop like last year, they don't realize how hard it is to play with a cast on your index finger. Kobe I believe was shooting 50% before his injury.

In the Month of October, Kobe shot 50.6% from the field, while the Lakers went 12-2. He shot over 50% in the first 4 games of November, then he breaks his finger. His percentages drop off after that stretch...

But you know what, % doesn't mean everything, he still played D, still coaches his team, and I bet you guys anything that if Kobe didn't play with his injuries the Lakers wouldn't have won the ring. The reason I say this is that Artest, Odom, and Bynum most of all saw what Kobe went through with those injuries. They still played with their injuries, and with Kobe leading by example we saw this team really get a toughness to them that we haven't seen in a while.

As a Laker fan I have an analogy of Kobe Bryant that a lot of fellow fans probably wouldn't like. Kobe Bryant is an old-school Celtics, Knicks, or Pistons player who happens to play in our league today.

Just to conclude... even if Kobe shoots a low percentage, he does so much other stuff on the court to make up for it. We often get caught with looking at stats as fans of the game... but some things don't come up in the box score which have a huge impact on the game.

Storch
08-04-2010, 11:01 PM
you wish heat fan, you wish

still1ballin
08-04-2010, 11:09 PM
Sorry Lakers fans im going to take a lot of heat for this (No Pun intended) but i predict Kobe has a pretty major drop off. People seem to forget all the injuries he had last even though he is was tough and played through them all. Lets face it Kobe is old not getting old but old due to the fact he came straight at of high school. There was an article in ESPN the magazine saying Players that come out of high school around 31 and college players around 33. I think he will miss around 20 games this season and Pau will have to step up big time for them to 3 peat, Your thoughts

Why do you even care?

jackdawson
08-04-2010, 11:10 PM
You don't compare stats for normal players to Kobe. He is one of a kind. That age **** don't apply to him.

Kobe will be Kobe til he retires. Kobe is the closest thing to Jordan ever. Was Jordan sorry at 36? No, so neither will Kobe. 3peat

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

showtym24
08-04-2010, 11:13 PM
your a heat fan, wishful thinking..

My thoughts exactly. Last couple years someone says this then kobe dominates. The first couple months of last season he was shooting career highs, and then ****ed he finger up again.

Jaji
08-04-2010, 11:22 PM
Huge drop off? Well he's not gonna score 81 points in a game again but he's still the 2nd best player in basketball right now.

still1ballin
08-04-2010, 11:25 PM
:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

Why are you laughing. Of course Kobe will never reach Jordan status or even be better than him, but if you ask anyone who is the closest player to Jordan, they will say Kobe 9/10 times. Its been said numerous times on ESPN. Just by Kobe playoff performance, there is only one other player that can re enact that and its Jordan.

still1ballin
08-04-2010, 11:26 PM
Huge drop off? Well he's not gonna score 81 points in a game again but he's still the 2nd best player in basketball right now.

Right:rolleyes:

Mr Moody
08-04-2010, 11:26 PM
I think the opposite, if he gets healthy (which he should be from the layoff) i think he will have a much better year this year compared to last year. It was amazing what he was able to do last year with knee/finger injuries.

kArSoN RyDaH
08-04-2010, 11:29 PM
this would come from a heat fan. who cares what you think. kobe will come out this year on top of his game and finish where he left off before he got injured last year averagin 35+ carrying the lakers on his back when pau went down. miles dont mean anything when you work out and maintain your body the way kobe has down throughout his career. he is unique. his constant training and his dieting is what keeps him playing game in and game out at a high level. kobes not going to win a scoring title (he doesnt have to) but he will be in top 3 in scoring and be more efficient this year. this summers rest will surely do him good. not only that, kobe feeds off all the media and scrutiny he gets from people like you so look for him to go to work. ;)

kArSoN RyDaH
08-04-2010, 11:30 PM
I think the opposite, if he gets healthy (which he should be from the layoff) i think he will have a much better year this year compared to last year. It was amazing what he was able to do last year with knee/finger injuries.

exactly.

kArSoN RyDaH
08-04-2010, 11:31 PM
if kobe did what he did in the playoffs on an injured and worn down body lord knows what hes going to do healthy this year.

watch out NBA!!! kobes on a full tank.

NBAKID7
08-04-2010, 11:32 PM
Kobe can play with an injury or without one. It does not matter to him. He always puts his best effort into it.

dodgerlakertown
08-04-2010, 11:44 PM
He had minor surgery on his knee and resting that finger. He will be back healthy and fine at 32. Look at MJ at 32, plus he has the roster to help him so he has to do little most of time. He will be sitting on 6 rings next June---wow!!

Chacarron
08-04-2010, 11:45 PM
I see Lebron having a bigger drop-off than Kobe actually. I know Lebron joined Wade's Heat so his stats will drop, but his style of playing is so aggressive that he could be seriously hurt. We've seen great athletes like him over the years just get injured and lose a step, specially if their game outside of dunking is not very solid. Look at Vince or T-Mac, they were great athletes and injuries have been significant in their careers. I'm not comparing those 2 to Lebron but injuries could become familiar to Lebron in the near future. As far as Kobe having a huge drop-off, get off that pipe. He is the hardest working player in the NBA and his game is second to none. I doubt he has a major drop-off or missing much time because he will be healthy come October 26th.

Jaji
08-04-2010, 11:49 PM
I see Lebron having a bigger drop-off than Kobe actually. I know Lebron joined Wade's Heat so his stats will drop, but his style of playing is so aggressive that he could be seriously hurt. We've seen great athletes like him over the years just get injured and lose a step, specially if their game outside of dunking is not very solid. Look at Vince or T-Mac, they were great athletes and injuries have been significant in their careers. I'm not comparing those 2 to Lebron but injuries could become familiar to Lebron in the near future. As far as Kobe having a huge drop-off, get off that pipe. He is the hardest working player in the NBA and his game is second to none. I doubt he has a major drop-off or missing much time because he will be healthy come October 26th.

Okay guy. I won't be reading any more of your posts :laugh2:.

Htownballa1622
08-04-2010, 11:52 PM
I see Lebron having a bigger drop-off than Kobe actually. I know Lebron joined Wade's Heat so his stats will drop, but his style of playing is so aggressive that he could be seriously hurt. We've seen great athletes like him over the years just get injured and lose a step, specially if their game outside of dunking is not very solid. Look at Vince or T-Mac, they were great athletes and injuries have been significant in their careers. I'm not comparing those 2 to Lebron but injuries could become familiar to Lebron in the near future. As far as Kobe having a huge drop-off, get off that pipe. He is the hardest working player in the NBA and his game is second to none. I doubt he has a major drop-off or missing much time because he will be healthy come October 26th.

come october 26th. When they lose to the rockets ;)

redzone11
08-04-2010, 11:56 PM
Well thechnically WHEN Lebron is old, he will have a bigger drop of than Kobe will. A lot bigger but if anyone thinks Lebron will drop off this season his crazy sure his PPG probably will be he is just hitting his prime.

That being said Kobe is one of the smartest and most physical players in the game. Even with an aging body he will not slow down easily he has an amazing jump shot and is effective is so many ways. He won't really slow down for a few years.

dodgerlakertown
08-04-2010, 11:59 PM
Well thechnically WHEN Lebron is old, he will have a bigger drop of than Kobe will. A lot bigger but if anyone thinks Lebron will drop off this season his crazy sure his PPG probably will be he is just hitting his prime.

That being said Kobe is one of the smartest and most physical players in the game. Even with an aging body he will not slow down easily he has an amazing jump shot and is effective is so many ways. He won't really slow down for a few years.



Perfectly said. Kobe still has 3-4 solid more years, just on his post game alone. He don't run around and dunk and slash as much of course because of his age but look how MJ did it in his early to mid 30's.

Hellcrooner
08-05-2010, 12:23 AM
ok so be it.

If pau has to step up he wil step up , i mean Phil told him to improve his rebounding, step it up in that thing? check his reboudns last season.


BUT i hardly doubt KObe will be on a declien this seaosn after FINALLY taking a summer rest .

a summer rest that finally Pau is going to get Too .

Both of them shoudl be formidable this season.

Highlight
08-05-2010, 01:54 AM
Before his injuries this past year, he was playing the best basketball of his career. (Shot over 50% from the field before he got injured)

With some much needed rest, he will be more than ready to go next year. Pau will be rested as well, so the Lakers should look pretty damn good next year.

_KB24_
08-05-2010, 01:54 AM
ok so be it.

If pau has to step up he wil step up , i mean Phil told him to improve his rebounding, step it up in that thing? check his reboudns last season.


BUT i hardly doubt KObe will be on a declien this seaosn after FINALLY taking a summer rest .

a summer rest that finally Pau is going to get Too .

Both of them shoudl be formidable this season.

You mind telling him that Phil, I mean the entire Lakers organization, would love if he can play a bit of defense.... :cool:

boriquaabe
08-05-2010, 01:57 AM
LEt me just put this out there as of now Kobe has played in as many games and as minutes as Michael did in his whole career.

BoltLakerPadre
08-05-2010, 02:15 AM
He played all year with countless injuries and he hasn't had an offseason to just rest in a while since he played for team USA. This entire summer off will do wonders for him, really no reason to believe Kobe will have a huge drop off...

I'd second this. Not to mention he is one of the most fundamentally sound and intelligent players. There are few people who can adapt their game like Kobe.

And not to be a jerk, but Wade is much younger, yet in the last 4 seasons he has missed 70 regular season games, and Kobe has only missed 14, while going to the finals in 3 out of those 4 years.

So I don't think Kobe is who you need to worry about, until your Heat meet him in the finals (assuming you can get by Orland or Boston).

MacFitz92
08-05-2010, 02:29 AM
As long as Kobe has more rings than Lebron there will never be a serious argument. At least come next June you can argue Kobe/MJ cause they will both have 6 rings.

If there is anyone right now who could argue against MJ, it would be Kobe. With that being said Kobe will never be what MJ was. Nobody will every be what MJ was.

Nobody can be what MJ was.

mbarajas138
08-05-2010, 02:34 AM
Remember, Kobe will have the entire summer to rest. I really think he will be the MVP next season. There is no real reason to believe he's going to have a down year.

magic0320
08-05-2010, 05:07 AM
Kobe is smart guy I am sure he will take care of his body and ajust to anything during season like past couple of seasons.

I am worried about him getting aged, but 10 or so games into season and seeing Lakers play I am sure I will have no worries haha

Jewelz0376
08-05-2010, 05:25 AM
Kobe is so skilled that he wont have a serious decline for a few more years... Look at Jordan when he got older...he started working in the post more and mastered the mid range game and the post fade...Which is exactly what kobe has done...He went to see Hakeem to master his post game, so even as his body begins to breakdown he can still go to that...

Hawkeye15
08-05-2010, 08:03 AM
You mind telling him that Phil, I mean the entire Lakers organization, would love if he can play a bit of defense.... :cool:

Gasol has more defensive, and more overall win shares than Kobe the last 2 seasons. So, I think he is living up to his end of the bargain.

Hawkeye15
08-05-2010, 08:09 AM
since his prime year at age 27, with a PER of 28, and him dominating in win shares, ratings, etc, his efficiency has seen a steady decline every year. Kobe is highly skilled, so his dropoff will continue to be nearly undetectable to the average fan. Only those who understand how to read efficiency and overall effect for 82 games will notice his slight drop every year. He is not the same player he once was. But he is going to be a top 5 player for a couple more years. LeBron, Wade, and Durant are all individually better than he is now. But the gap isn't big enough yet, so nostalgia kicks in for Kobe fans, or the average fan when attempting to do an overall rating. But he is indeed in decline, and neutral fans who understand efficiency know this.
So many forget he didn't have a good game against a good team over the past 5 weeks of the regular season last year. Hopefully, with a full offseason of rest, everyone will see a rejuvinated Kobe this season. But his best days are behind him guys. But good news for Laker fans, Gasol is in his prime, and Kobe's role players continue to step up when needed most.

Steelers23_06
08-05-2010, 08:23 AM
pointless thread but im bored at work so ill give my input. shooters never die. kobe will be in the league for a while because he can shoot. thats the reason mj could still drop points in bunches even when with the wizards because he could shoot. reggie miller was a threat upto retirement because he could shoot. same goes for ray allen. shooters are always dangerous. people just remember kobe as the high flying number 8. but this is a new look kobe with a very well balanced game. so because of that he will put up mvp type number for the next couple of years i say 2 more years and then have a slow but not huge drop. because he is not immortal all the greats struggle before they retire jordan, magic, dr j...age is something you cant fight.

Steelers23_06
08-05-2010, 08:30 AM
since his prime year at age 27, with a PER of 28, and him dominating in win shares, ratings, etc, his efficiency has seen a steady decline every year. Kobe is highly skilled, so his dropoff will continue to be nearly undetectable to the average fan. Only those who understand how to read efficiency and overall effect for 82 games will notice his slight drop every year. He is not the same player he once was. But he is going to be a top 5 player for a couple more years. LeBron, Wade, and Durant are all individually better than he is now. But the gap isn't big enough yet, so nostalgia kicks in for Kobe fans, or the average fan when attempting to do an overall rating. But he is indeed in decline, and neutral fans who understand efficiency know this.
So many forget he didn't have a good game against a good team over the past 5 weeks of the regular season last year. Hopefully, with a full offseason of rest, everyone will see a rejuvinated Kobe this season. But his best days are behind him guys. But good news for Laker fans, Gasol is in his prime, and Kobe's role players continue to step up when needed most.

thats a negative. kobe is leas and bounds better than durant and wade is definitely not better than kobe. the only one is lebron. you have to play basketball to uderstand all the things kobe brings to a team. hes not only there best scorer but he is arguably their best defender and a player coach making it that much easier for phil jackson. i was reading an article where ron artest was saying how they will be on the plane playing cards and then kobe will be in the back studying tapes and if he sees something he will just grab ron artest or whoever grab them in the middle of the card game and show them their mistakes and how to improve. idc how old he gets i want a player that can contribute all that over wade and durant anyday.

younggunn113
08-05-2010, 08:47 AM
One thing you should have learned by now is, NEVER bet against Kobe.

He is in ridiculous condition and no player in the NBA works as hard as him. Its been documented the amount of time and effort he puts in is bar none.

He also has added motivation this year, as if he ever needed more:
Phil's last year
Closing in on Jordan's 6
The Heat
Potential lockout

There's a reason he's the best in the game. His numbers won't drop off, I say he averages something along the lines of 27.5/6/5 (Points/AST/Reb) during the regular season. He's stopped burning himself out during the season and saving it for the post season. He knows its not a sprint, its a marathon.

Hawkeye15
08-05-2010, 08:53 AM
thats a negative. kobe is leas and bounds better than durant and wade is definitely not better than kobe. the only one is lebron. you have to play basketball to uderstand all the things kobe brings to a team. hes not only there best scorer but he is arguably their best defender and a player coach making it that much easier for phil jackson. i was reading an article where ron artest was saying how they will be on the plane playing cards and then kobe will be in the back studying tapes and if he sees something he will just grab ron artest or whoever grab them in the middle of the card game and show them their mistakes and how to improve. idc how old he gets i want a player that can contribute all that over wade and durant anyday.

I played basketball. Show me how Kobe is their best defender at this point, over the course of 82 games.
And you can prefer who you like man. Fact is, Wade and Durant are more productive now. Really no debating that. The only thing left to argue for Kobe is rings (age old useless argument when comparing active players), and intangibles, which can't possibly be measured, therefore are not all that relevant in an argument because its like talking about politics or religion. So we stick the the things that can be measured.

Rocco007
08-05-2010, 09:09 AM
I played basketball. Show me how Kobe is their best defender at this point, over the course of 82 games.
And you can prefer who you like man. Fact is, Wade and Durant are more productive now. Really no debating that. The only thing left to argue for Kobe is rings (age old useless argument when comparing active players), and intangibles, which can't possibly be measured, therefore are not all that relevant in an argument because its like talking about politics or religion. So we stick the the things that can be measured.

First off if you're going off stats...DWade and Lebron have better numbers, assists in particular...Than MJ and Kobe ever had...young or older...
Reason?
The Triangle offense...
Which allows everyone to fascilitate...Hence, a pure PG isn't necessary...
So for you to say Dwade is more productive is misleading...
Aside from his skillset(No weaknesses)...Kobe is a master motivator as well at this stage in his career...Lebron or Dwade have never developed talent around them...
Ever...
It shows in the postseason when the heat is on...(No pun intended)
Teams always fold like lawn chairs under pressure...
And for all the backlash Kobe's gotten in his career about being selfish...
Look at his body of work...
and the nobodies that have either stayed or left and gotten big paydays...
Shannon Brown was a ghost in Cleveland...
Or the somebodies that are now elite ie; Pau Gasol...
Kobe has owned DWade one on one his whole career dude...Dwade has nothing for him...
How soon we forget the GW Kobe hit him in the mouth with just a few months ago...
But now, maybe little big brother Lebron can now help double team the OLD DUDE.... :laugh2:

Hawkeye15
08-05-2010, 09:11 AM
First off if you're going off stats...DWade and Lebron have better numbers, assists in particular...Than MJ and Kobe ever had...young or older...
Reason?
The Triangle offense...
So for you to say Dwade is more productive is misleading...
Aside from his skillset(No weaknesses)...Kobe is a master motivator as well at this stage in his career...Lebron or Dwade have never developed talent around them...
Ever...
And for all the backlash Kobe's gotten in his career about being selfish...
Look at his body of work...
and the nobodies that have either stayed or left and gotten big paydays...
Shannon Brown was a ghost in Cleveland...
Or the somebodies that are now elite ie; Pau Gasol...
Kobe has owned DWade one on one his whole career dude...Dwade has nothing for him...Maybe little big brother Lebron can now help double team the OLD DUDE.... :laugh2:

MJ's stats in the triangle were far superior to Durant and Wade's
Not sure where you are going here. You don't have a point

Steelers23_06
08-05-2010, 09:13 AM
for the future yes they are the better choice but for this season alone no. how can you say that when he is coming off a finals mvp and averaging 29.2 throughout the playoffs. wade and durant both arent better defenders. where are you getting your facts? because your opinion really doesnt matter to me.

Hawkeye15
08-05-2010, 09:17 AM
for the future yes they are the better choice but for this season alone no. how can you say that when he is coming off a finals mvp and averaging 29.2 throughout the playoffs. wade and durant both arent better defenders. where are you getting your facts? because your opinion really doesnt matter to me.

a finals MVP because his team won the finals, and he had the most points.
And Durant is not a better defender than Kobe, but he is way more efficient offensively, and a much better rebounder.
I can see arguing Kobe over Durant, and MAYBE Wade, though I think Wade's advanced numbers are just superior to Kobe's at this point. And LeBron's numbers have smashed Kobe for a while now.
But stick to per game numbers, they are the simplest to understand, and stick to the awards and rings that are from team success.
Seriously, who cares. Laker fans will stick to their Kobe guns as long as he lives, even when there is statistical proof that he is on the slide.

Steelers23_06
08-05-2010, 09:20 AM
First off if you're going off stats...DWade and Lebron have better numbers, assists in particular...Than MJ and Kobe ever had...young or older...
Reason?
The Triangle offense...
Which allows everyone to fascilitate...Hence, a pure PG isn't necessary...
So for you to say Dwade is more productive is misleading...
Aside from his skillset(No weaknesses)...Kobe is a master motivator as well at this stage in his career...Lebron or Dwade have never developed talent around them...
Ever...
It it shows in the postseason when the heat is on...(No pun intended)
Teams always fold like lawn chairs under pressure...
And for all the backlash Kobe's gotten in his career about being selfish...
Look at his body of work...
and the nobodies that have either stayed or left and gotten big paydays...
Shannon Brown was a ghost in Cleveland...
Or the somebodies that are now elite ie; Pau Gasol...
Kobe has owned DWade one on one his whole career dude...Dwade has nothing for him...Maybe little big brother Lebron can now help double team the OLD DUDE.... :laugh2:

and i disagree homer. kobe doesnt make his team better he is no MJ. he may make players play to their potential but he doesnt essentially make them better. look at when they were getting kicked out in the 1st round before he got pau. the team wast doing so well. imo lebron is better at that and you will see why in the upcoming season when cleveland wins like 20 games everyone will understand why lebron bolted the way he did. after all he's given them in actuality he owes them nothing.

Steelers23_06
08-05-2010, 09:26 AM
a finals MVP because his team won the finals, and he had the most points.
And Durant is not a better defender than Kobe, but he is way more efficient offensively, and a much better rebounder.
I can see arguing Kobe over Durant, and MAYBE Wade, though I think Wade's advanced numbers are just superior to Kobe's at this point. And LeBron's numbers have smashed Kobe for a while now.
But stick to per game numbers, they are the simplest to understand, and stick to the awards and rings that are from team success.
Seriously, who cares. Laker fans will stick to their Kobe guns as long as he lives, even when there is statistical proof that he is on the slide.

im farrrrr from a lakers fan but im a basketball fan that understands basketball(what a crazy concept). and there is no way that durant is better than kobe. and when has being better on offense made you a better player? so joe johnson is better than paul pierce because his offense is better NO paul pierce is the better all around player and that is the same thing that applies here

ManRam
08-05-2010, 09:27 AM
Instead of bringing the Heat into this and making fun of their fans, how about you actually just talk about what the thread is talking about. It's not that hard of a concept...

Kobe is going to drop off sometime. That's a given. It's going to come sometime sooner rather than latter too. He has adjusted his style of play to more of a less contact approach which should help, but he's logged A TON of minutes already. Last year he was more banged up than ever, and while he played through it most of the time, it takes a toll.

The drop off won't come this year, or next year probably, but in his mid 30s he will start to fall out of the discussion as to who is the best player currently in the NBA. But that's down the road...for sure.

LA_Raiders
08-05-2010, 09:38 AM
Summer Off for Kobe will be enough, and once Lakers secure HCA he will rest some more...

He will be alright... He is the best...

LA_Raiders
08-05-2010, 09:42 AM
Dont Hate CHeat!!!

RazNYC
08-05-2010, 09:48 AM
Kobe will get past Jordan with rings and will be the best player ever

Rocco007
08-05-2010, 09:56 AM
MJ's stats in the triangle were far superior to Durant and Wade's
Not sure where you are going here. You don't have a point
:facepalm:
Please look up stats before we go there...
Career Assists
MJ - 5.3*
Kobe - 5.3*
Dwade - 6.6
Lebron - 7.0

*Amazing...:D

Lets talk defense...

What do Westbrook and Rondo have in common?
Both got locked up by the old man in the Playoffs a few months ago...

Minimal
08-05-2010, 09:58 AM
Just a comparison of Kobe vs LeBron: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eiPYYSSdyw
Watch the whole video. It says all.
The only guy who can surpass Jordan now is LeBron.

Hawkeye15
08-05-2010, 10:01 AM
:facepalm:
Please look up stats before we go there...
Career Assists
MJ - 5.3*
Kobe - 5.3*
Dwade - 6.6
Lebron - 7.0

*Amazing...:D

Lets talk defense...

What do Westbrook and Rondo?
Both got locked up by the old man in the Playoffs a few months ago...


ah, per game stats. Let me know when you graduate to understaing how useless those are and we can talk. It would be a waste of time to argue with you if that is your ammo

Rocco007
08-05-2010, 10:03 AM
and i disagree homer. kobe doesnt make his team better he is no MJ. he may make players play to their potential but he doesnt essentially make them better. look at when they were getting kicked out in the 1st round before he got pau. the team wast doing so well. imo lebron is better at that and you will see why in the upcoming season when cleveland wins like 20 games everyone will understand why lebron bolted the way he did. after all he's given them in actuality he owes them nothing.

You mean when The #7 seed Lakers with Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, Luke Walton as starters stretched the Powerhouse Phoenix Suns to a 3-1 deficit?
I remember...I think Kobe made an NBA is amazing commercial out of that.... :laugh2:

mikantsass
08-05-2010, 10:06 AM
No, Kobe is a beast. He is the most competitive player in the Association. He won't drop off this season he is still in the prime of his career. I dont expect anymore 60+ point games from him, but i can garantee he hits 6-10 game winners during the season.

97NYer
08-05-2010, 10:10 AM
And I predict Kobe's scoring gets back to 29 PPG and he wins the 2nd MVP he deserves.

Da Knicks
08-05-2010, 10:17 AM
I think the key for Kobe staying healthy is the health of Gasol and Bynum. Kobe has taken all lot of hits these past years and needs to take it easy like he did this year. I really dont like kobe since im an old school knick fan and hate the lakers but the player has produced as a volume shooter for the lakers. Every year the lakers have tried to make it easier on Kobe by bringing all-star players to play with him. I see Kobe having three more good years declining little by little every year barring injury. He is still the second best player in the league because he takes care of his body and has the players to help him out.

Steelers23_06
08-05-2010, 11:07 AM
You mean when The #7 seed Lakers with Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, Luke Walton as starters stretched the Powerhouse Phoenix Suns to a 3-1 deficit?
I remember...I think Kobe made an NBA is amazing commercial out of that.... :laugh2:

oh yeah and lebron had sooooooo much help when he made the finals with startes of pavlovic, hughes, gooden and big z...they were greattttt.

Chronz
08-05-2010, 11:15 AM
Kobe hasnt played through the kind of injuries that make you look old. Well he has but not for prolonged stretches. He was starting to look like he was entering that stage (he played bad when his back was hurting) before finally taking the time off. So lets not act like Kobe can play through any sort of ailment. Ill tell you right now, if Kobes back starts to give then its over.

Chronz
08-05-2010, 11:16 AM
I dont think so buddy. If you actually watch the Lakers play when Kobe's not hurt he dominates pretty much every game. Only reason he had a few bad games during post season was because he had no rest and games were being played every other day. Now that Kobe has time to rest during the summer and just recently got surgery taken care of. I think Kobe has another 4-5 prime years left before he loses his step. Kobe's game doesn't rely on athleticism btw like your boy wade and lebron. Kobe can actually shoot the ball from anywhere on the court off balance or just in rhythm
lol

netsgiantsyanks
08-05-2010, 11:20 AM
Huge drop off? Well he's not gonna score 81 points in a game again but he's still the 2nd best player in basketball right now.



lol ok

Statik1
08-05-2010, 11:37 AM
Broken finger > sore elbow.

carter80
08-05-2010, 11:43 AM
Actuall Kobe is going to better than ever, He has a little motivation now that lebron went to the heat. He gets to murder all three at the same time.

Chronz
08-05-2010, 11:56 AM
Kobe is so skilled that he wont have a serious decline for a few more years... Look at Jordan when he got older...he started working in the post more and mastered the mid range game and the post fade...Which is exactly what kobe has done...He went to see Hakeem to master his post game, so even as his body begins to breakdown he can still go to that...

Look at MJ after as many NBA years as Kobe has now

RaiderLakersA's
08-05-2010, 11:57 AM
a finals MVP because his team won the finals, and he had the most points.
And Durant is not a better defender than Kobe, but he is way more efficient offensively, and a much better rebounder.
I can see arguing Kobe over Durant, and MAYBE Wade, though I think Wade's advanced numbers are just superior to Kobe's at this point. And LeBron's numbers have smashed Kobe for a while now.
But stick to per game numbers, they are the simplest to understand, and stick to the awards and rings that are from team success.
Seriously, who cares. Laker fans will stick to their Kobe guns as long as he lives, even when there is statistical proof that he is on the slide.

In your opinion, would Wade's and James' stats look differently if they played in the West, not the East? Curious. I would think strength of competition plays some part here, which is something not immediately discernable at a glance.

mikealike305
08-05-2010, 11:58 AM
Actuall Kobe is going to better than ever, He has a little motivation now that lebron went to the heat. He gets to murder all three at the same time.

are u kobes personal trainer to be saying this?

Chronz
08-05-2010, 12:00 PM
One thing you should have learned by now is, NEVER bet against Kobe.
LOL why does every fan of Kobe have to respond in such fashion? Really now, never bet against Kobe? What if I like making money?


He's stopped burning himself out during the season and saving it for the post season. He knows its not a sprint, its a marathon.

The first sign of a drop off is when your players cant give it their all every game anymore. Those games become more and more frequent as you get older. But yea Kobe should be around the same guy, 32 isnt ancient.


You mind telling him that Phil, I mean the entire Lakers organization, would love if he can play a bit of defense.... :cool:
Umm hes already one of the better defenders at his position. Im pretty sure the team got the memo, then again the Lakers arent one of those stat savvy teams so who knows.


Okay guy. I won't be reading any more of your posts :laugh2:.
I stopped reading right there.

Chronz
08-05-2010, 12:01 PM
thats a negative. kobe is leas and bounds better than durant and wade is definitely not better than kobe. the only one is lebron. you have to play basketball to uderstand all the things kobe brings to a team. hes not only there best scorer but he is arguably their best defender and a player coach making it that much easier for phil jackson. i was reading an article where ron artest was saying how they will be on the plane playing cards and then kobe will be in the back studying tapes and if he sees something he will just grab ron artest or whoever grab them in the middle of the card game and show them their mistakes and how to improve. idc how old he gets i want a player that can contribute all that over wade and durant anyday.
I other words you'll take a hardworker whos recognized as such over a superior player whos work ethic you have no understanding of?

kjoke
08-05-2010, 12:02 PM
hell do ok

RaiderLakersA's
08-05-2010, 12:13 PM
Will the mileage and age catch up to Kobe eventually? Yes.

But let's keep it in perspective. It is the natural order of things that as superb players exit the discussion of where they stand amongst contemporaries, they enter the greater forum of where they stand amongst the all time greats.

There's no point in mentioning a Tracy McGrady as a comparable comparison to Kobe. He will not be in that forum.

There's no point in mentioning Wade or LeBron at this point in their careers, either. Until they pick up at least 3 titles each, they'll likely be standing behind the velvet rope, outside the room.

Every anti-Laker or anti-Kobe wants to be the first to predict what we already know. Namely, that Kobe is going to get old someday. I thought that PSD was reserved for better topics of discussion than this. Was I wrong?

hvg
08-05-2010, 12:19 PM
He might have a major drop-off in the regular season but I really don't think it matters much. Even if Kobe plays 50-60 games, the lakers should be a 1-3 seed in the playoffs. And as long as he's healthy in the playoffs, the lakers are still my favorites for the c'ship.

L@ker4Life
08-05-2010, 12:20 PM
I'd agree with this. Taking the summer off for once is going to do him a lot of good. I think he'll actually be healthier than he was last year. There's no doubt he has a lot of miles, but he hasn't shown any signs of a "significant" drop off.

That said, as I've said plenty of times, the real key to that teams success IS their bigs. Kobe can have an off series (by superstar standards) and they'll be able to power through it most of the time so long as their bigs come to play. The Thunder series last post-season was a good example of that. There's probably a lot of (non-Laker) fans that would agree with me in saying that Pau was equal to Kobe, if not the best player on the Lakers the last 4 months of the season + the playoffs last year. I don't think that's going to change too much going forward.

.

I think you're not giving Lakers fans enough credit. Although it does get tough to decifer between Lakers fans and Kobe fans so I guess I can't blame you.

IMO Pau is the most efficient player on the Lakers as well as having the biggest impact on the game when he is allowed to do so. Most Lakers fan realize this despite what fans of other teams may believe.

BrotherRedz
08-05-2010, 12:23 PM
I think you're not giving Lakers fans enough credit. Although it does get tough to decifer between Lakers fans and Kobe fans so I guess I can't blame you.

IMO Pau is the most efficient player on the Lakers as well as having the biggest impact on the game when he is allowed to do so. Most Lakers fan realize this despite what fans of other teams may believe.

Lakers fans is WAAAY different than Kobe nuthuggers

Lakers fans respect Robert Horry not calling him some 10th option :facepalm:

Hawkeye15
08-05-2010, 12:23 PM
In your opinion, would Wade's and James' stats look differently if they played in the West, not the East? Curious. I would think strength of competition plays some part here, which is something not immediately discernable at a glance.

possibly. But neither has ever had the support Kobe has had either. In all reality, this is subjective, because I have absolutely no clue if their stats would look different. I would assume not. Great players get it done.

Rocco007
08-05-2010, 12:24 PM
ah, per game stats. Let me know when you graduate to understaing how useless those are and we can talk. It would be a waste of time to argue with you if that is your ammo

----------------
Yeah let's bypass facts and graduate to your personal opinions...
The convo would go like this...
You: I think Dwade is more productive than Kobe...
Me: Now why would you say that?
You: Just because...
Me: oh ok...

what am I thinking?
That would be a great debate...

Beyond that, I'm giving you reasons beyond stats...
so not sure where you're going with this...

RaiderLakersA's
08-05-2010, 12:28 PM
I think you're not giving Lakers fans enough credit. Although it does get tough to decifer between Lakers fans and Kobe fans so I guess I can't blame you.

IMO Pau is the most efficient player on the Lakers as well as having the biggest impact on the game when he is allowed to do so. Most Lakers fan realize this despite what fans of other teams may believe.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

I call Pau "Mr. Untouchable," because at the pace that he's developing, he will be the most complete big man in the game bar none. One of the unfortunate side effects of having a megastar on your squad is that said improvement often goes unnoticed.

BrotherRedz
08-05-2010, 12:29 PM
possibly. But neither has ever had the support Kobe has had either. In all reality, this is subjective, because I have absolutely no clue if their stats would look different. I would assume not. Great players get it done.


Only tough Competition for LeBron in the west are Denver and Dallas, anyways

Laker Legend42
08-05-2010, 12:29 PM
Kobe gets what a lot of other players miss. The importance of treating your body right, working out and always trying to add something to continue to get better. I think Paul Pierce hurt his team last year with his lack of conditioning and I think some of the younger guys like Lebron will slip faster because since he's been in the league his game hasn't changed much and when you can't get it done on pure athleticism the skills leave sooner than later. This thread also shows why it's dumb to have the whole Kobe v. the young guns debate for one reason. Kobe's total years in the the league. By basketball standards yes, he's old. It also kinda shows his greatness. At his age and all the wear and tear on his body he's still in the conversation with guys that's been in the league half as long as he has. It seems a lot of people ( NBA analyst included) are waiting for this dude to dry up and go away. This dude just isn't ready. If Lebron had Kobe's drive and killer instinct he would truly be wayyy too much to deal with.

The Miami Cheat
08-05-2010, 12:30 PM
i think kobe is gonna have another dominating season IMO. his time is deff gonna come soon where he wont be the same amazing "kobe"....but rite now he's still on point.

BrotherRedz
08-05-2010, 12:33 PM
i think kobe is gonna have another dominating season IMO. his time is deff gonna come soon where he wont be the same amazing "kobe"....but rite now he's still on point.


That amazing "kobe" , finals MVP, pathetic shooting, Gasol, Artest, Fisher saved him

Yes I wanna see that "Kobe" too bad that is the "kobe" right now and lol at the Lakers fans

RaiderLakersA's
08-05-2010, 12:33 PM
possibly. But neither has ever had the support Kobe has had either. In all reality, this is subjective, because I have absolutely no clue if their stats would look different. I would assume not. Great players get it done.

Yeah, I hear ya. That's kind of the tin foil link in an otherwise steel chain. We just don't know how much better/worse the stats would be given the same strength of competition.

But for the purposes of this particular thread I guess we don't need it. The natives seem restless to cull the elderly from the tribe...and they're mighty anxious for some reason to add Kobe's name to that lottery. I can only imagine what that they'll sound like in another year or two.

BrotherRedz
08-05-2010, 12:35 PM
No wonder Kobe doesnt want to play for Charlotte Hornets, cause he cant dominate lol

Avenged
08-05-2010, 12:40 PM
I do expect a "slight drop off" nothing too major, the whole summer to rest will definitely do him good. He also had successful knee surgery and has plenty of time to fully recover once the season starts.

If Kobe does drop off a bit, I wouldn't mind that at all since it would most likely mean more touches for Gasol and Bynum. Gasol can lead this team because they're so stacked and not to mention the Lakers biggest advantage is clearly our bigs. Bynum is also due for a breakout year, if Kobe drops off, there's no reason he shouldn't have a big year if he can remain healthy.

Either way though, I think the Lakers will be fine throughout whether Kobe drops off or not, basically because Kobe will not decline very much this season and also because the Lakers have 2 valuable players in Gasol and Bynum as well as good role players to back them up.

Raidaz4Life
08-05-2010, 12:50 PM
That amazing "kobe" , finals MVP, pathetic shooting, Gasol, Artest, Fisher saved him

Yes I wanna see that "Kobe" too bad that is the "kobe" right now and lol at the Lakers fans

You're right, one game defines an entire season/post season:rolleyes:

Hawkeye15
08-05-2010, 12:53 PM
You're right, one game defines an entire season/post season:rolleyes:

it did for Artest according to many Laker fans. It has now done the same for Rasheed Wallace in another thread...

Hawkeye15
08-05-2010, 12:56 PM
That amazing "kobe" , finals MVP, pathetic shooting, Gasol, Artest, Fisher saved him

Yes I wanna see that "Kobe" too bad that is the "kobe" right now and lol at the Lakers fans

are you really basing Kobe's entire postseason performance on a few games. Did you forget the 15 rebounds from the SG position to help seal it?

Rocco007
08-05-2010, 01:16 PM
That amazing "kobe" , finals MVP, pathetic shooting, Gasol, Artest, Fisher saved him

Yes I wanna see that "Kobe" too bad that is the "kobe" right now and lol at the Lakers fans

3 straight Finals...
Back to Back Titles...
Beat Orlando who beat Lebron's #1 Cavs team...
Beat Boston who beat Lebron's #1 Cavs Team...
and all u got is one bad game to talk about in 3 years, "23pts 15 rebs"?
I'll take it...
and you haters will take a 3peat down your throats for good measure...
Life is great as a Laker fan...
almost unfair....:laugh2:

mikealike305
08-05-2010, 01:51 PM
kobe will get old.... hes 32 now (end of aug)... he can only do it for so long... he will slow down and wont be able to keep out with the youth of wade 27 bosh 27 and lebron 25

Chronz
08-05-2010, 01:52 PM
Every anti-Laker or anti-Kobe wants to be the first to predict what we already know. Namely, that Kobe is going to get old someday. I thought that PSD was reserved for better topics of discussion than this. Was I wrong?
Agreed with majority of your post and yes pointing out the fact that Kobe is getting old and waiting for it to happen so you can ridicule him (like we do so many of our former stars) is a realm of ignorance reserved for the scum of PSD. That said, the topic is about when its going to happen. I dont consider myself anti anything, the game is one giant experiment to me. And figuring out when Kobe will finally allow age or injuries/luck to catch up to him is part of determining his greatness. Every year he maintains this level of play hes adds a chapter of greatness reserved only for the games best.

Its funny I think people have Kobes career twisted, he was never super imposing that you would say Id take any given season of his over so and so, but Id probably take his entire career over anyone in NBA history. MJ included

Lebromer
08-05-2010, 01:53 PM
Not to be Cavalier about it, but did you make this prediction in the knicks of time? he he he he....

Hawkeye15
08-05-2010, 01:54 PM
Agreed with majority of your post and yes pointing out the fact that Kobe is getting old and waiting for it to happen so you can ridicule him (like we do so many of our former stars) is a realm of ignorance reserved for the scum of PSD. That said, the topic is about when its going to happen. I dont consider myself anti anything, the game is one giant experiment to me. And figuring out when Kobe will finally allow age or injuries/luck to catch up to him is part of determining his greatness. Every year he maintains this level of play hes adds a chapter of greatness reserved only for the games best.

Its funny I think people have Kobes career twisted, he was never super imposing that you would say Id take any given season of his over so and so, but Id probably take his entire career over anyone in NBA history. MJ included


explain

Laker Legend42
08-05-2010, 01:55 PM
That amazing "kobe" , finals MVP, pathetic shooting, Gasol, Artest, Fisher saved him

Yes I wanna see that "Kobe" too bad that is the "kobe" right now and lol at the Lakers fans

It was the finals mvp. Not game 7 mvp. Look at Kobe's numbers for the series(meaning the whole thing) thats the only way to get a full understanding of why he was named MVP. Looking only at game 7 confuses things. You say Gasol,Artest and Fish saved him? Go back just this past season and count the times that he saved them.

Klivlend
08-05-2010, 01:59 PM
I hate Kobe as much as the next guy. But, I do not see him dropping off this year. He will have another productive season. He's not gonna be the high flying #8 everyone fell in love with, but he hasn't been that player for a couple of seasons. He will probably average something like 25/5/4 and be in the MVP conversation, but not win it. Pau will probably have a small voice in the MVP talks as well, but will not win the award. If Kobe can avoid a major injury, he still has a solid 3, maybe 4 years left before he really begins to struggle. Probably not much on the offensive side of the ball because his shooting touch and range will still be there. But he will slowly lose the ability to beat players off the dribble and his step back will create less separation and become less effective as well. As that happens, he will become less and less effective on defense because he will no longer be able to stay in front of his man. It will be a slow, yet steady decline. He will delay the process as much as possible because he is such a strong competitor. Mind over matter only lasts so long.

Kobe is a great player, no longer the greatest player in the league. And, this season or next will probably begin his fall from grace. Even though I hate Kobe, it will still be hard for me to watch. I mean, I freaking love hating the guy. I don't know who can replace that need to hate a player with such a passion once he leaves. I hope he can maintain his high level of play for at least 3 more years. Only time will tell.

O, and Roccoo007, stop typing in bold purple. Your opinion is not more important than the rest.

Brooklyn Mets
08-05-2010, 02:11 PM
Kobe will be an MVP type player every year

SundaeBest
08-05-2010, 02:42 PM
are you really basing Kobe's entire postseason performance on a few games. Did you forget the 15 rebounds from the SG position to help seal it?

WTF? OGM.......:speechless: Srry Hawkeye, never seen this from you before :)

GonRoo
08-05-2010, 02:51 PM
Sorry Lakers fans im going to take a lot of heat for this (No Pun intended) but i predict Kobe has a pretty major drop off. People seem to forget all the injuries he had last even though he is was tough and played through them all. Lets face it Kobe is old not getting old but old due to the fact he came straight at of high school. There was an article in ESPN the magazine saying Players that come out of high school around 31 and college players around 33. I think he will miss around 20 games this season and Pau will have to step up big time for them to 3 peat, Your thoughts

Kobe has had the most miles of any other player in the league the last couple of years with the Olympics and all the playoff runs the Lakers have had so far, yet Kobe managed to be an elite player.

This time around he has taken a break from summer basketball and has/is in the process of healing all of his injuries.

My prediction is that Kobe has his best season ever.

Chronz
08-05-2010, 03:04 PM
Kobe has had the most miles of any other player in the league the last couple of years with the Olympics and all the playoff runs the Lakers have had so far, yet Kobe managed to be an elite player.

This time around he has taken a break from summer basketball and has/is in the process of healing all of his injuries.

My prediction is that Kobe has his best season ever.
Why did you have to ruin what seemed to be a very intelligent post with that? Its obviously much more likely that Kobe declines, **** Id be willing to bet the operation has a miscue, Kobe gets dead legs and becomes a fringe 6thman before he has his best season ever.

mikealike305
08-05-2010, 03:07 PM
^ yes

Chronz
08-05-2010, 03:07 PM
explain
Kobe has been so unique in his ability to remain elite for so long that it gives my theoretical team a greater window to build around him. Im basing this entirely on the idea that Kobe maintains his current form for another 2-3 years.

Think of it this way, would you rather have what the 10-12 years Shaq/MJ were dominant and the half decade or so they declined or missed altogether for whatever reason. Or would you rather have the dual decade of dominance I hope Kobe gos for?

Hawkeye15
08-05-2010, 03:18 PM
Kobe has been so unique in his ability to remain elite for so long that it gives my theoretical team a greater window to build around him. Im basing this entirely on the idea that Kobe maintains his current form for another 2-3 years.

Think of it this way, would you rather have what the 10-12 years Shaq/MJ were dominant and the half decade or so they declined or missed altogether for whatever reason. Or would you rather have the dual decade of dominance I hope Kobe gos for?

well, do you consider Kobe dominant before 2000-01? I don't. I think MJ had 12 seasons, with a injury interruption, and a baseball hiatus, and Shaq had 13 years of dominance, with a steady decline. I get what you are saying, in the sense that Kobe has now had 10 dominant seasons, you predict 2-3 more, with the same team, spanning two decades, etc.
I sort of believe a guard for example, has so many good games, when they are of that level. Jordan never even played as many games as Kobe already has. Kobe has statistically fallen off a bit. Its difficult to justify, but his shot creation ability for himself is not where it was 3 years ago even. Hence his overall PER falling, while many of his other advanced numbers stay.
At this point as well, Kobe is very reliant on his roster support to get him through stretches of play. You would obviously expect this with 1300 games on his knees. But him coming straight into a winning situation gave him a kick start over a Jordan for example. Jordan came into the league at 21, so he was physically ready to dominate, where Kobe took a few years, as you would expect an 18 year old to do.
I will side with your opinion if he has minimal to no falloff for 2-3 more seasons. But right now, I think Jordan and Shaq's career's are just as admirable, Jordan's more so with the rules he played under.

_KB24_
08-05-2010, 04:45 PM
well, do you consider Kobe dominant before 2000-01? I don't. I think MJ had 12 seasons, with a injury interruption, and a baseball hiatus, and Shaq had 13 years of dominance, with a steady decline. I get what you are saying, in the sense that Kobe has now had 10 dominant seasons, you predict 2-3 more, with the same team, spanning two decades, etc.
I sort of believe a guard for example, has so many good games, when they are of that level. Jordan never even played as many games as Kobe already has. Kobe has statistically fallen off a bit. Its difficult to justify, but his shot creation ability for himself is not where it was 3 years ago even. Hence his overall PER falling, while many of his other advanced numbers stay.
At this point as well, Kobe is very reliant on his roster support to get him through stretches of play. You would obviously expect this with 1300 games on his knees. But him coming straight into a winning situation gave him a kick start over a Jordan for example. Jordan came into the league at 21, so he was physically ready to dominate, where Kobe took a few years, as you would expect an 18 year old to do.
I will side with your opinion if he has minimal to no falloff for 2-3 more seasons. But right now, I think Jordan and Shaq's career's are just as admirable, Jordan's more so with the rules he played under.

Don't even go there....

RaJa TWa
08-05-2010, 04:55 PM
wow how do u predict someone to get hurt

Hawkeye15
08-05-2010, 04:55 PM
Don't even go there....

its always a factor dude. But not something I wish to continue to debate, that has been done. Perimeter players in the 90's were forced to be tougher, but were also allowed to dish more out. Simply put, it was a more physical game. So when a perimeter player in that era gives a TS% around 60% through his prime, it says more to me than a 56% in the last 10 years.

Hawkeye15
08-05-2010, 04:55 PM
wow how do u predict someone to get hurt

dude apparently has a crystal ball

RaiderLakersA's
08-05-2010, 05:15 PM
Agreed with majority of your post and yes pointing out the fact that Kobe is getting old and waiting for it to happen so you can ridicule him (like we do so many of our former stars) is a realm of ignorance reserved for the scum of PSD. That said, the topic is about when its going to happen. I dont consider myself anti anything, the game is one giant experiment to me. And figuring out when Kobe will finally allow age or injuries/luck to catch up to him is part of determining his greatness. Every year he maintains this level of play hes adds a chapter of greatness reserved only for the games best.

Its funny I think people have Kobes career twisted, he was never super imposing that you would say Id take any given season of his over so and so, but Id probably take his entire career over anyone in NBA history. MJ included

Fair enough, but we should probably sticky this in the Lakers forum...for next year, and the year after that, and the year after that....

Chronz
08-05-2010, 06:23 PM
well, do you consider Kobe dominant before 2000-01? I don't. I think MJ had 12 seasons, with a injury interruption, and a baseball hiatus, and Shaq had 13 years of dominance, with a steady decline. I get what you are saying, in the sense that Kobe has now had 10 dominant seasons, you predict 2-3 more, with the same team, spanning two decades, etc.
I sort of believe a guard for example, has so many good games, when they are of that level. Jordan never even played as many games as Kobe already has. Kobe has statistically fallen off a bit. Its difficult to justify, but his shot creation ability for himself is not where it was 3 years ago even. Hence his overall PER falling, while many of his other advanced numbers stay.
At this point as well, Kobe is very reliant on his roster support to get him through stretches of play. You would obviously expect this with 1300 games on his knees. But him coming straight into a winning situation gave him a kick start over a Jordan for example. Jordan came into the league at 21, so he was physically ready to dominate, where Kobe took a few years, as you would expect an 18 year old to do.
I will side with your opinion if he has minimal to no falloff for 2-3 more seasons. But right now, I think Jordan and Shaq's career's are just as admirable, Jordan's more so with the rules he played under.

Are they really that close in years? Feels like Ive been watching Kobe forever, the teen years really do skew my memory but we can agree that his teen years dont really sway the choice. Thats not to say they dont count for anything. After his first year, Kobe was ready to contribute to a team, and 2 years to contribute in the playoffs. He was a quality 6th man year 2, All-Star caliber by year 3 all before MJ ever hits the league. Once hes there though its over, even a rookie MJ surpasses a seasoned Kobe at 21, and the jumps in MJ's game just make him untouchable. The years he misses to injuries and where Kobe is at in his career:

Age:
22: Kobe has the 2nd greatest stretch of playoff basketball of his career.
30-31: So the 2 years MJ spent away from the game marked the same year of age Kobe spent winning his first 2 titles as the man.

I dont think coming back for the last few games counts as a season or else Id count MJ's rampage vs the Celtics so we basically miss 2 years of contention during his first retirement. But it does raise an interesting question, technically if you have a contending team in place that could somehow make the playoffs, would you rather have a superior talent like MJ for those games or the guy who has spent an entire year building chemistry and securing HCA? Lets just say it doesnt count.

MJ retires 3 years later at 34 bringing his total to 11 stellar seasons. Same # Kobe is at now by my standards.

I guess I was being to generous to Kobe, hed have to maintain this level of play for another 7 years to get to that point where you start to consider his longevity over the GOATS prime then huh. Highly doubtful, thats without considering MJ's stay in Washington, though I think Kobes development years come close to matching MJ's retirement years.

netsgiantsyanks
08-05-2010, 06:47 PM
That amazing "kobe" , finals MVP, pathetic shooting, Gasol, Artest, Fisher saved him

Yes I wanna see that "Kobe" too bad that is the "kobe" right now and lol at the Lakers fans

:facepalm::facepalm:

El Hombre#5
08-05-2010, 06:52 PM
Um, Kobe shows no indication in slowing down. He's one of the most dedicated players you, in your life time, will ever come across. He is a gym rat and will continue to play at high level for more years to come..
It also helps that he is taking the entire off-season off, to just rest and heal. Also, besides all the dedication and work ethics, he's freaking Kobe, how many players are more talented? Are there any players that are more talented all around? I don't kinda, really, necesserily think so. Sorry.

lakersfan01
08-05-2010, 06:53 PM
i watch every game, and imo i think kobe is already dropping off a little. his defense isn't what it used to be and he has to labor really hard to score. jordan had offensive moves that allowed him to score without too much contact. kobe seems to exert alot of energy posting up and scoring and needs to be very physical to do it. i hope kobe gets more pass happy and tries to get close to 10 assists a game, and i think his game could be extended and play very effective until age 36 or so. the key is kobe to be EFFICIENT as he ages into his mid and geez, in a few years late 30s lol.

lakersfan01
08-05-2010, 06:56 PM
luckily kobe is in great shape and takes care of his body, unless its mid season and doesn't fix his fingers and now they damaged forever lol. i sure hope they can do something to improve that. look at the tape from young kobe and his shot is beautiful picture perfect. now he has altered his shot and shoots off the pinkie and ring finger like we were all taught not to do. amazing he shoots as well as he does like that!

El Hombre#5
08-05-2010, 06:56 PM
Why did you have to ruin what seemed to be a very intelligent post with that? Its obviously much more likely that Kobe declines, **** Id be willing to bet the operation has a miscue, Kobe gets dead legs and becomes a fringe 6thman before he has his best season ever.

You really would be that surprised if KOBE had his best season ever?

In ways, Kobe continues to get better each season as a basketball player. Maybe not as a high flying athletic machine, but his knowledge of the game continues to grow each season, which benefits him, as well as the Lakers even more.. He could easily put up 27-28+ a game, with either more rebounds or assists, and even better defense.

Anythings possible with Kobe. I wouldn't see it being too much out of the ordinary.

Klivlend
08-05-2010, 06:58 PM
i watch every game, and imo i think kobe is already dropping off a little. his defense isn't what it used to be and he has to labor really hard to score. jordan had offensive moves that allowed him to score without too much contact. kobe seems to exert alot of energy posting up and scoring and needs to be very physical to do it. i hope kobe gets more pass happy and tries to get close to 10 assists a game, and i think his game could be extended and play very effective until age 36 or so. the key is kobe to be EFFICIENT as he ages into his mid and geez, in a few years late 30s lol.

I don't think it's debatable. Kobe has already begun to drop-off a little. I remember one game where he had a break away and opted for a lay-up. JVG made a comment about his legs getting old and saving his energy. The Kobe 3 or 4 years ago, the Kobe that wore #8, would have thrown that down-hard. He didn't use to need to save energy. Father time always wins, doesn't matter who you are, Kobe, Favre, Jordan, Shaq, Griffey Jr.

majestic
08-05-2010, 07:00 PM
kobe and the lakers are gonna beat this super team then kobe will be perceived as better then mj.
thats how its going down.

Klivlend
08-05-2010, 07:02 PM
You really would be that surprised if KOBE had his best season ever?

In ways, Kobe continues to get better each season as a basketball player. Maybe not as a high flying athletic machine, but his knowledge of the game continues to grow each season, which benefits him, as well as the Lakers even more.. He could easily put up 27-28+ a game, with either more rebounds or assists, and even better defense.

Anythings possible with Kobe. I wouldn't see it being too much out of the ordinary.

You really think a 32 year old Bryant will produce his best season? Guy, face it. He is obviously on the down side of his prime. He has already peaked. He is still a great player, but not the same. Shooters can only dominate so much. He still has the ability to create his own shot, but as that begins to diminish, so will his ability to dominate with ease. Just watch

Klivlend
08-05-2010, 07:07 PM
kobe and the lakers are gonna beat this super team then kobe will be perceived as better then mj.
thats how its going down.

OMG guy. Kobe will never be perceived as BETTER than MJ. Have you lost your mind? Cause I'll help you find it. Listen to what respected members in the basketball community say. Kobe is comparable to MJ, but in no way is he better and he will never be better. The competition Jordan faced was superior and the rules he played under were harder for perimeter players. And, he accomplished more as a team and individually than Kobe has or will. You can compare Kobe and MJ's drive to win, but MJ is the clear, unrivaled G.O.A.T.

Delrayhc
08-05-2010, 07:19 PM
kobe and the lakers are gonna beat this super team then kobe will be perceived as better then mj.
thats how its going down.

Are you from the future? How is the DeLorean holding up?

djlamer
08-05-2010, 07:24 PM
kobe may be a step slower now, but he is also 2 steps wiser now as well, and that more than makes up for it.
his athleticism has gone done for sure, but he's still a fantastic shooter, his post moves are getting better, and his passing is still top notch.
his defense is still top notch IMO, he did shut down rondo in the final, making him score 5 percent below his average and his lowest scoring average in the playoffs. and honestly that doesn't matter as much thanks to the additions of ron ron and matt barnes.

Hawkeye15
08-05-2010, 07:26 PM
kobe may be a step slower now, but he is also 2 steps wiser now as well, and that more than makes up for it.
his athleticism has gone done for sure, but he's still a fantastic shooter, his post moves are getting better, and his passing is still top notch.
his defense is still top notch IMO, he did shut down rondo in the final, making him score 5 percent below his average and his lowest scoring average in the playoffs. and honestly that doesn't matter as much thanks to the additions of ron ron and matt barnes.

as long as you don't ask Kobe to dominate 82 games on both sides of the floor, and use him in spots, I totally agree with this. Hence why Phil is the greatest coach of all time. He knows how to rest Kobe to maximize his efficiency as he ages

Avenged
08-05-2010, 07:30 PM
kobe may be a step slower now, but he is also 2 steps wiser now as well, and that more than makes up for it.
his athleticism has gone done for sure, but he's still a fantastic shooter, his post moves are getting better, and his passing is still top notch.
his defense is still top notch IMO, he did shut down rondo in the final, making him score 5 percent below his average and his lowest scoring average in the playoffs. and honestly that doesn't matter as much thanks to the additions of ron ron and matt barnes.

I agree, physically it's only natural Kobe starts to "decline" a bit more from here on out. But the thing that never declines is mentality, IQ, fundamentals, etc..

Since Kobe has already lost a bit of a step, he has adjusted and started picking his spots to shoot. He also learned some post moves last off-season (although he didn't go to it as much). He has mastered the game, and the Lakers offense, as well as being one of the most mentally prepared players in the league.

Players like Kobe, once something gets taken away, they come back with something else.

Wilson
08-05-2010, 07:34 PM
Guys, I understand that Kobe Bryant is a polarising player, but there is no need for the amount of off-topic posts in this thread. Me and ManRam have both cleaned some stuff out of here, but if it continues the thread will eventually have to be closed.

There are some intelligent posters making intelligent arguments in here too, so if you don't have a post to make regarding the subject of the thread then it might be worth just reading theirs. You might discover a new perspective to look at things from, as I often do reading things here.

To sum up, please just chill out a bit :cheers:

Fireworld
08-05-2010, 07:36 PM
ok. One mans opinion.