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Mile High Champ
08-04-2010, 09:45 AM
Hey guys, Some of you may remember that for the last two years I have conducted a poll at the end of the season that had PSD users vote for the top 10 players at each position. Its is now that time to vote! I would like to start this up once more considering the NBA season is now over and we can get to this discussion since lots has changed since the start of last season. Please TRY AND VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER AND DON'T BE A HOMER. I will leave the poll open for one day and than we can carry on to the next best player at that position. I will add more players after each round. I have also included the results of those last 2 years so everyone can see how much things have changed...Enjoy.

REMEMBER this is based on who is the best player, not the player who has the potential to be the best.

Quick Note: Due to the last poll being a dead lock between Rondo and Rose, it made sense to skip poll number 5 due to the obvious outcome.

PG Rankings DONT FORGET TO VOTE!!

1) Deron Williams
2) Chris Paul
3) Steve Nash
4) Rajon Rondo
5) Derrick Rose
6)
7)
8)
9)
10)




2009 Off-Season PSD PG Rankings
1) Chris Paul
2) Deron Williams
3) Chauncey Billups
4) Tony Parker
5) Steve Nash
6) Derrick Rose
7) Devin Harris
8) Rajon Rondo
9) Jose Calderon
10) Jason Kidd

2008 Off-Season PSD PG Rankings
1) Chris Paul
2) Steve Nash
3) Deron Williams
4) Baron Davis
5) Tony Parker
6) Jason Kidd
7) Chauncey Billups
8) Gilbert Arenas
9) Jose Calderon
10) Andre Miller

Mile High Champ
08-04-2010, 09:50 AM
This is where things get interesting..

S-Dot
08-04-2010, 09:51 AM
Chauncey Billups

Mile High Champ
08-04-2010, 09:52 AM
Even though Parker had an off year, I would still take him over everybody else left..

Mile High Champ
08-04-2010, 09:55 AM
A few more guys should be included in the poll but for no these players are fine. I will add more to the next one, 3-5 guys..

Bullsfan22
08-04-2010, 09:57 AM
Parker or Billups for me. If I had to choose I'd say Parker.

upt_
08-04-2010, 10:09 AM
I'd choose Mistah Bigshot over Parker any day.

Russell_Roberts
08-04-2010, 10:12 AM
Kid... BESt IQ

AntiG
08-04-2010, 10:14 AM
Billups > Rose.

97NYer
08-04-2010, 10:19 AM
Tony Parker

bahama0811
08-04-2010, 10:19 AM
Chauncey Billups

zo#33
08-04-2010, 10:21 AM
Billups

mikantsass
08-04-2010, 10:21 AM
Why was there no voting for #5? #5 should be Billups, so I'll go him here

GMEN4EVER
08-04-2010, 10:24 AM
Billups, although don't discount Arenas here. I know he's been a nut case lately, but the man can definetely ball. Him and Parker are pretty close to Billups.

black1605
08-04-2010, 10:27 AM
Parker

tredigs
08-04-2010, 10:53 AM
I think Chauncey will win this, but I see Russell Westbrook in his 3rd season having the more impactful 2010-2011 year than the 34 year old Billups. His counting stat numbers should be around 17pts 9ast 5reb (about what he had the last half of the season) which is supplemented by solid d.

In my opinion the difference between him and D. Rose is pretty minimal at this point, so I'll vote for him just ahead of Chauncey for that reason. And Parker's not as impactful on either end of the floor as Westbrook, I can't consider him until after Chauncey.

Khalifa21
08-04-2010, 11:00 AM
Chauncey Billups

Jays Claw
08-04-2010, 11:02 AM
Chauncey Billups should have been taken at #5.

The Miami Cheat
08-04-2010, 11:04 AM
tony parker

td0tsfinest
08-04-2010, 11:05 AM
seems like a two way race b/w billups and parker. I'm going with mr. big shot.

Kakaroach
08-04-2010, 11:09 AM
I would have taken Billups over Rose as well, so Chauncey here too.

Avenged
08-04-2010, 11:10 AM
Billups over Rose, re-do #5.

XxigglesphanxX
08-04-2010, 11:10 AM
chauncy all the way

XxigglesphanxX
08-04-2010, 11:11 AM
do number 5 bro! you may be surprised

AntiG
08-04-2010, 11:13 AM
Seriously, #5 needs to be done the normal way. The only reason why Rose got so many votes is because there are so many homer Bulls fans that think he's as good as LeBron.

Niro
08-04-2010, 11:27 AM
now its getting interesting...i thought about it and i say steph curry with maybe a little bit ofer homerism to it..but i think he can keep up with any of the listed pg's

where was the #5 voting?

Minimal
08-04-2010, 11:27 AM
Stephen Curry in my opinion, true point guard with a very good future.

ragee
08-04-2010, 11:37 AM
Even though Parker had an off year, I would still take him over everybody else left..

No disrespect to Parker but Westbrook is like a younger more athletic Parker so I'd take Westbrook over him... His experience can be used against my argument though...

ragee
08-04-2010, 11:40 AM
now its getting interesting...i thought about it and i say steph curry with maybe a little bit ofer homerism to it..but i think he can keep up with any of the listed pg's

where was the #5 voting?

I think it is mr. big shot but but Rondo and Rose skipped over him so what the hell! Homerism it is! Westbrook!

northsider
08-04-2010, 11:43 AM
Chauncey Billups should have been taken at #5.

But he wasn't so cry me a river.

dhopisthename
08-04-2010, 11:45 AM
bullips for #5, rose for 6

northsider
08-04-2010, 11:48 AM
Seriously, #5 needs to be done the normal way. The only reason why Rose got so many votes is because there are so many homer Bulls fans that think he's as good as LeBron.

Or that just think he is a damn fine player.

Rose being number 5 isn't like it is a stretch let alone not debatable. Only reason your crying is cause you just hate the Bulls and no reason other then that and you are tired of Bulls homers on this site which I completely agree there are wayy to many of but, nothing the rest of the fan base can do about it.

I think you can't even put Rose in with any of these guys to be honest cause he isn't a prototypical PG like the rest of them. He is just a fun player to watch and is pretty damn good at what he does.

ManRam
08-04-2010, 11:49 AM
Rose would have been #5 easily. As he he should be.

I voted Parker. I think Chauncey is beginning his decline. He didn't really have a tremendous year last season. His points were up, but he shot more shots than he ever has, and continues to hover around 40% shooting. His assist/TO ratio was 38th in the league last year...and if you aren't scoring efficiently, and you are passing efficiently, then what are you doing efficiently? His PER was still pretty high, however. So despite his inefficiency in those two regards, he has proven, yet again, that his all-around game is probably better than anyone not named Rondo.

I just like Parker more. He'll give you about the same amount of passing, but he's such a better scorer. Defensively things even up a bit, but I think Parker has improved. It's a tough call, but I did vote Parker.

cowboyz180
08-04-2010, 12:00 PM
jason kidd

Angel2Maverick
08-04-2010, 12:04 PM
probably still the smartest player in the NBA

Jason Kidd

sports4life1989
08-04-2010, 12:11 PM
Jason Kidd

Also, I think do believe Rose is before Billups and in all honesty before Rondo IMO. I dont know why people compare their stats.
1) they are two completely different players
2) having great players around you will help you look better
I always hear about Rondos D but everytime i watch the Bulls-Celtics play Rose is killing Rondo unless I missed the games Rondo stopped him :shrug:

Cool007
08-04-2010, 12:14 PM
Seriously, #5 needs to be done the normal way. The only reason why Rose got so many votes is because there are so many homer Bulls fans that think he's as good as LeBron.

U Mad???

Rose should have been #4 but anyway, IMO, Rondo and Rose were in the same tier last year (4a/4b).

Aapox
08-04-2010, 12:17 PM
Everyone who thinks Billups is better than Rose is kidding themselves (Yes I am a Bulls fan but I do love Chauncy Billups). You'll all see next year if you catch any Bulls games.

AntiG
08-04-2010, 12:21 PM
Or that just think he is a damn fine player.

Rose being number 5 isn't like it is a stretch let alone not debatable. Only reason your crying is cause you just hate the Bulls and no reason other then that and you are tired of Bulls homers on this site which I completely agree there are wayy to many of but, nothing the rest of the fan base can do about it.

I think you can't even put Rose in with any of these guys to be honest cause he isn't a prototypical PG like the rest of them. He is just a fun player to watch and is pretty damn good at what he does.

First of all, I don't dislike the Bulls. I do however dislike the Bulls fans here because they ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS lack ability to be unbiased and its annoying as hell.

And I am also a big fan of Rose, I've followed him since his college days and rooted for him in the championship. But I am honest with my assessments of him unlike the Bulls fans here. He is in the 6-8 range for me amongst the league's point guards.

Regardless, the vote should be done properly so that the results are not skewed.

AntiG
08-04-2010, 12:22 PM
U Mad???

Rose should have been #4 but anyway, IMO, Rondo and Rose were in the same tier last year (4a/4b).

lol no, I'm only annoyed that the vote was skipped because it should have been between Billups, Parker and Rose for #5. Rondo is the better player. Its pretty clearcut.

tredigs
08-04-2010, 12:26 PM
Jason Kidd

Also, I think do believe Rose is before Billups and in all honesty before Rondo IMO. I dont know why people compare their stats.
1) they are two completely different players
2) having great players around you will help you look better
I always hear about Rondos D but everytime i watch the Bulls-Celtics play Rose is killing Rondo unless I missed the games Rondo stopped him :shrug:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=rosede01&p2=rondora01

^That's Rondo versus Rose heads up, their production doesn't really change much from what it is against the rest of the league. Rose outscores him, and Rondo does pretty much everything else better. On a team with weak scoring there's an argument for Rose, but given that he can't even shoot the three well, Rondo's the better overall pg/player.

Also, I'll have to say again that Russell Westrbook is virtually every bit as good as D. Rose (better at some facets, less so in others. But very, very comparable. Especially from the 2nd half on of last season) - it's funny what both hype and what market you play in can do for a players perception.

sports4life1989
08-04-2010, 12:35 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=rosede01&p2=rondora01

^That's Rondo versus Rose heads up, their production doesn't really change much from what it is against the rest of the league. Rose outscores him, and Rondo does pretty much everything else better. On a team with weak scoring there's an argument for Rose, but given that he can't even shoot the three well, Rondo's the better overall pg/player.

Also, I'll have to say again that Russell Westrbook is virtually every bit as good as D. Rose (better at some facets, less so in others. But very, very comparable. Especially from the 2nd half on of last season) - it's funny what both hype and what market you play in can do for a players perception.

I never compared the two just basically asked since Rondo's D is really good why he doesn't slow Rose down?

I do believe Rondo is the better overall pg but overall player I still debate. I do like Westbrook also I'm very excited to watch him play this year, and I think its better to compare Rose-Westbrook than Rondo-Rose.

Sadds The Gr8
08-04-2010, 12:36 PM
wow I cant believe Billups is winning I think Russel definitely passed him i voted Westbrook.

northsider
08-04-2010, 12:49 PM
First of all, I don't dislike the Bulls. I do however dislike the Bulls fans here because they ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS lack ability to be unbiased and its annoying as hell.

And I am also a big fan of Rose, I've followed him since his college days and rooted for him in the championship. But I am honest with my assessments of him unlike the Bulls fans here. He is in the 6-8 range for me amongst the league's point guards.

Regardless, the vote should be done properly so that the results are not skewed.

6-8 is def. respectable and unlike everyone else I am not going to act like a kid and say thats ****ing absurd your a idiot homer.

LTS
08-04-2010, 12:52 PM
Parker or billups went with Billups but lets face there both better then rose( i understand CHI there is so many of you. you force him in the top 5 before he should be) and they our winners

Kashmir13579
08-04-2010, 12:53 PM
parker is easily the best on this list

Sadds The Gr8
08-04-2010, 12:54 PM
parker is easily the best on this list

maybe in overall success, but as of last year? no way. Parker hasn't been great for awhile. trust me i had him on fantasy

YoungOne
08-04-2010, 12:56 PM
dunno why jason kidd gets no love, he still average 10-9-6-2 and shoots 42,5 % from deep..pretty good i think...

tredigs
08-04-2010, 12:56 PM
I never compared the two just basically asked since Rondo's D is really good why he doesn't slow Rose down?

I do believe Rondo is the better overall pg but overall player I still debate. I do like Westbrook also I'm very excited to watch him play this year, and I think its better to compare Rose-Westbrook than Rondo-Rose.

yeah word, honestly I think it has to do with Rondo being a better team defender and defensive rebounder (always scrapping for/getting the defensive boards). He also plays the lanes really well and gets those extra possessions/pts off of his steals or forced turnovers. But strictly as a heads up defender? I don't think he's very special. You could actually argue that Rose even has him on that aspect. Overall defense though, it's Rondo by a ways. The guy is really the ultimate "intangible" player. I don't think it's any mistake that he was their best player on the finals run this year.

And yeah, it's definitely a more clear cut comparison to look at Rose V. Westbrook than either of them versus Rondo. Seeing them play on the same side for Team USA this summer is going to be good stuff.

For the people saying Curry, I'd give him another full year with a more balanced (hopefully uninjured) squad before I'm ready to put him this high (saying that as a huge Curry fan). He was absolutely TEARING it up the last month of the season, so I'm pretty excited to see just how good he's going to be.

69centers
08-04-2010, 12:59 PM
As much as I can't stand him, I gotta go with J. Kidd over Chauncey or Westbrook.

X12Celtics3
08-04-2010, 01:17 PM
I'd take Chauncey Billups here.

sports4life1989
08-04-2010, 01:20 PM
yeah word, honestly I think it has to do with Rondo being a better team defender and defensive rebounder (always scrapping for/getting the defensive boards). He also plays the lanes really well and gets those extra possessions/pts off of his steals or forced turnovers. But strictly as a heads up defender? I don't think he's very special. You could actually argue that Rose even has him on that aspect. Overall defense though, it's Rondo by a ways. The guy is really the ultimate "intangible" player. I don't think it's any mistake that he was their best player on the finals run this year.

And yeah, it's definitely a more clear cut comparison to look at Rose V. Westbrook than either of them versus Rondo. Seeing them play on the same side for Team USA this summer is going to be good stuff.

For the people saying Curry, I'd give him another full year with a more balanced (hopefully uninjured) squad before I'm ready to put him this high (saying that as a huge Curry fan). He was absolutely TEARING it up the last month of the season, so I'm pretty excited to see just how good he's going to be.

I agree. Rondo overall D is alot better than Rose's by a long shot. If their new coach can teach Rose how to be a good defender I think it could help Rose be a much better overall player. I agree with you about Rondo also now if he could develop a jumpshot we'll be talking about these two for a very long time since they always play eachother.

Do you think Curry would become a better player with Ellis on the team or being the vocal point on the team without Ellis?

What?
08-04-2010, 01:40 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=rosede01&p2=rondora01

^That's Rondo versus Rose heads up, their production doesn't really change much from what it is against the rest of the league. Rose outscores him, and Rondo does pretty much everything else better. On a team with weak scoring there's an argument for Rose, but given that he can't even shoot the three well, Rondo's the better overall pg/player.

Also, I'll have to say again that Russell Westrbook is virtually every bit as good as D. Rose (better at some facets, less so in others. But very, very comparable. Especially from the 2nd half on of last season) - it's funny what both hype and what market you play in can do for a players perception.

In the 2nd half of the season pretty much stayed with his average for the season other then in 1 month were he averaged 19/10 but thats about it

In that 2nd half Rose averaged 25.5/7 on 54% from the field in april 20/7 in march 22/5 51% from the field in February 23/6.5/50% from the field in January

Rose clearly was better in the second half and it wasn't even close

tredigs
08-04-2010, 01:42 PM
I agree. Rondo overall D is alot better than Rose's by a long shot. If their new coach can teach Rose how to be a good defender I think it could help Rose be a much better overall player. I agree with you about Rondo also now if he could develop a jumpshot we'll be talking about these two for a very long time since they always play eachother.

Do you think Curry would become a better player with Ellis on the team or being the vocal point on the team without Ellis?

At the beginning of the year, it wasn't a pretty sight at all. Monta was dominating the ball and didn't let Curry explore what he could do whatsoever (which is why his stats were so meager the first couple months), but after Ellis missed a few games in mid January and Curry went for 32pts, 25pts and 27pts with solid all around numbers/percentages in consecutive games, I think he got the picture.

After that they co-existed a lot better - but ideally the team would be better off with a larger, more defensive minded 2 guard who didn't have PG tendencies like Monta in order for Curry to just run the show on that end. Ellis has a tendency to get in these attack modes where he just crushes the flow of the offense, and that doesn't do any good for anyone (even if he does score a decent amount of the time, it takes other players like Curry out of the game). Hopefully this year he tapers back a bit on that...

What?
08-04-2010, 01:44 PM
This should have been Westbrook vs Chauncey I don't think Parker was close to as good as them this season. People are clinging on to past glories

TheWatcher34
08-04-2010, 01:45 PM
no love for Curry? :speechless:

tredigs
08-04-2010, 02:03 PM
In the 2nd half of the season pretty much stayed with his average for the season other then in 1 month were he averaged 19/10 but thats about it

In that 2nd half Rose averaged 25.5/7 on 54% from the field in april 20/7 in march 22/5 51% from the field in February 23/6.5/50% from the field in January

Rose clearly was better in the second half and it wasn't even close

Here's the 2nd 40 games of the season for Rose and Westbrook:


Name Team g min/g pts/g 3/g reb/g ast/g stl/g blk/g fg% fga/g ft% fta/g

Rose CHI 39 37.6 22.5 0.4 3.8 6.1 0.7 0.4 0.514 18.0 0.769 4.7

Westbrook OKC 41 33.4 16.2 0.0 4.8 8.4 1.6 0.4 0.438 13.8 0.788 5.2


Westbrook, in 3 less minutes - averaged a higher reb%, ast%, stl% (and more of these in general - even with less minutes), while Rose scored more with better efficiency. Although their ts% (.490 to .530) is closer than their fg% being that Westbrook got to the line a bit more and shot slightly better.

As for overall win shares over the season (which if you had to pick one stat, is probably the best to gauge a players worth/impact), Westbrook had 6.1 to Rose's 6.0. To say that "it's not even close" is a joke. Unless you're a Bulls fan? That might explain it.

I'd expect both of them to have big years next year.

IversonIsKrazy
08-04-2010, 02:54 PM
Billups is starting to get a bit overrated now. He WAS good, last year he show'd his aging, first-round exit avging under 6apg and under 42% from the field during the season. Rose > Billups, it isn't even close.

To me, #6 has to go to Tony Parker. He had an off year with all his injuries, but when hes healthy, he can be debated for the #3 PG in the league. 2 years ago, when he was healthy, he had his best season getting 22ppg 7apg, and 29ppg 7apg in the playoffs. He is the 6th best PG right now, and when healthy, can move all the way up to #3.

Tony Parker is being heavily underrated right now, while Russell Westbrook is being heavily overrated.

J_M_B
08-04-2010, 03:01 PM
Chauncey Billups.

tredigs
08-04-2010, 03:15 PM
Billups is starting to get a bit overrated now. He WAS good, last year he show'd his aging, first-round exit avging under 6apg and under 42% from the field during the season. Rose > Billups, it isn't even close.

To me, #6 has to go to Tony Parker. He had an off year with all his injuries, but when hes healthy, he can be debated for the #3 PG in the league. 2 years ago, when he was healthy, he had his best season getting 22ppg 7apg, and 29ppg 7apg in the playoffs. He is the 6th best PG right now, and when healthy, can move all the way up to #3.

Tony Parker is being heavily underrated right now, while Russell Westbrook is being heavily overrated.

There's a case for the Frenchman, but I wouldn't say he's being heavily underrated while Westbrook is being overrated. Beyond the stats and play comparisons I just made of Rose to Westbrook (who most would agree at this point has passed TP), I don't see him as the better player than Russ going into next season. One guy is an athletic freak who has never missed a game in his career and will be entering his early-prime next year - while the other is a bit older and has missed double-digit games each of the past 3 seasons.

If you're a GM and I get the chance to sign either for a 5 year contract, it's not close to me - you sign Westbrook.

What injury are you talking about that kept Parker's stats down last season by the way? He only played a few games after he broke his hand, and his production was about the same.

thekmp211
08-04-2010, 03:17 PM
baron davis! rebound year, watch out!

this is very tough. if i want to win a game now? billups. if im starting a franchise? westbrook.

thus, i vote b-diddy and his beard.

jackdawson
08-04-2010, 03:22 PM
lol..JK gets no love. He is still right up there but somehow he has been overlooked.

still1ballin
08-04-2010, 03:25 PM
westbrook

cmellofan15
08-04-2010, 03:34 PM
Billups, who should have been 4.

BOSTON617
08-04-2010, 03:40 PM
westbrook are you serious!?!?! billups has a nice shot but westbrook is just intense

John Walls Era
08-04-2010, 03:40 PM
Billups, hes the best at running a team outta the PGs left.

IversonIsKrazy
08-04-2010, 03:44 PM
There's a case for the Frenchman, but I wouldn't say he's being heavily underrated while Westbrook is being overrated. Beyond the stats and play comparisons I just made of Rose to Westbrook (who most would agree at this point has passed TP), I don't see him as the better player than Russ going into next season. One guy is an athletic freak who has never missed a game in his career and will be entering his early-prime next year - while the other is a bit older and has missed double-digit games each of the past 3 seasons.

If you're a GM and I get the chance to sign either for a 5 year contract, it's not close to me - you sign Westbrook.

What injury are you talking about that kept Parker's stats down last season by the way? He only played a few games after he broke his hand, and his production was about the same.

I would sign Westbrooke but because of his age, not the current talent. Parker played a few games after his injury, his production was good, but he just wasn't himself. Russ is still a young player, the poll is more of WHO IS BETTER NOW, not WHO WILL BE BETTER. I really think that Parker is still better than Russ right now, when healthy, Parker is always in top 5 for point in the paint per game. He leads a championship-contending team, while Russ plays along with Durrant on a young and exciting UP AND COMING team.
Its a close call between Russ and Parker, but I still think Parker is better and makes more of a positive impact than Russ does

alencp3
08-04-2010, 04:01 PM
Tyreke

tredigs
08-04-2010, 04:09 PM
I would sign Westbrooke but because of his age, not the current talent. Parker played a few games after his injury, his production was good, but he just wasn't himself. Russ is still a young player, the poll is more of WHO IS BETTER NOW, not WHO WILL BE BETTER. I really think that Parker is still better than Russ right now, when healthy, Parker is always in top 5 for point in the paint per game. He leads a championship-contending team, while Russ plays along with Durrant on a young and exciting UP AND COMING team.
Its a close call between Russ and Parker, but I still think Parker is better and makes more of a positive impact than Russ does

Fair enough. I mean I disagree - I think Russ is both better now + going forward and that the Thunder are a bit better than the Spurs going forward (as in this year). Westbrook does play with Durant, but TP also has grown up playing with the greatest PF of all time, Manu Ginobili, and arguably the best coach in the game; so it's all relative there imo.

But I can respect the Parker choice, he's very legit.

cmellofan15
08-04-2010, 08:04 PM
bump. #4 is on page one but this isn't

ManRam
08-04-2010, 08:06 PM
bump. #4 is on page one but this isn't

:worthy: You're a savior.

I'm curious to see how it goes from here. I pretty much figured 1-6 would go how they did, but now it's a toss-up.

pistonsfanomg
08-04-2010, 08:14 PM
John Wall is #3

Redbull
08-04-2010, 08:29 PM
Chauncey Billups.

VinceCarter
08-04-2010, 08:54 PM
John Wall is #3

ahhhh John Wall has not played an NBA game yet......PLEASE DON'T PUT HIM AS AN OPTION IN ANY OF THESE POLLS!

Bball#42
08-05-2010, 12:16 AM
Westbrook gets overlooked because of how good Durant is. I'd take westbrook who just nudges out Billups

sargon21
08-05-2010, 12:25 AM
rose is def. better than parker and billups at this point in their careers, and its not close... but to #6, if i was starting a franchise with any one of these players i would take tyreke, so thats who i chose

dsickich123
08-05-2010, 12:29 AM
I believe that this is Westbrook. Especially at the end of this season. I think after this season Westbrook will cement himself as a top 5 pg in the league.

dsickich123
08-05-2010, 12:32 AM
You cannot tell me you would rather have billups on your team over westbrook. Westbrook almost averaged 3 full more assists and 2 full more rebound than him. And dont say Westbrook is good because of Durant. You can give the same arguement for Billups and Melo.

Lloyd Christmas
08-05-2010, 01:03 AM
Did I miss the vote for #5? Billups should have gone there.