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Mile High Champ
08-03-2010, 11:13 AM
Hey guys, Some of you may remember that for the last two years I have conducted a poll at the end of the season that had PSD users vote for the top 10 players at each position. Its is now that time to vote! I would like to start this up once more considering the NBA season is now over and we can get to this discussion since lots has changed since the start of last season. Please TRY AND VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER AND DON'T BE A HOMER. I will leave the poll open for one day and than we can carry on to the next best player at that position. I will add more players after each round. I have also included the results of those last 2 years so everyone can see how much things have changed...Enjoy.

REMEMBER this is based on who is the best player, not the player who has the potential to be the best.

PG Rankings DONT FORGET TO VOTE!!

1) Deron Williams
2) Chris Paul
3) Steve Nash
4)
5)
6)
7)
8)
9)
10)




2009 Off-Season PSD PG Rankings
1) Chris Paul
2) Deron Williams
3) Chauncey Billups
4) Tony Parker
5) Steve Nash
6) Derrick Rose
7) Devin Harris
8) Rajon Rondo
9) Jose Calderon
10) Jason Kidd

2008 Off-Season PSD PG Rankings
1) Chris Paul
2) Steve Nash
3) Deron Williams
4) Baron Davis
5) Tony Parker
6) Jason Kidd
7) Chauncey Billups
8) Gilbert Arenas
9) Jose Calderon
10) Andre Miller

Mile High Champ
08-03-2010, 11:16 AM
Part 4 is now up.. get voting people!

celticpride07
08-03-2010, 11:16 AM
rondo

Kakaroach
08-03-2010, 11:19 AM
I like Rondo for this one as well.

Angel2Maverick
08-03-2010, 11:33 AM
Rondo

Minimal
08-03-2010, 11:58 AM
Rondo this time

macc
08-03-2010, 12:00 PM
I'm suprised at how disrespected Tony Parker is. He has one injury filled year and people forget about this finals MVP (2006-2007), 3 championship(s). Plus has been the starting PG on a great playoff team since he's been in the league. Then you got young bucks that come into the league and people label them as the next best thing which automatically puts them ahead of the vets. I guess I just don't get that.

Lets compare Parker and Rose.

Rose last year (his best year thus far) avg 20.8 ppg 6 assists 3.8 rebounds and .7 steals
Parker in 2009 (last full healthy year) avg 22 ppg 6.9 assists 3.1 rebounds and .9 steals

Parker is superior in every single stat excluding rebounds. Then you see that Parker avg more free throw attempts per game then rose. Shot a higher 3pt, fg, & free throw percentage then Rose.

Then you take Rondo, who is a little harder to compare to Parker because they are two different types of players.

Parker avgs nearly 10 more pts a game, but a full 3 less assists and less steals. Though Parker shoots a higher 3pt and free throw percentage then Rondo, which is something I think is a must for a pg. At least a high free throw percentage that is.


In saying this, I love Rondo and Rose, but when I put players at the very top I look at longetivity. Parker has been a great pg in this league for years now and has won at every level. Yes I'm going to put him before a 2-3 year guy who has showed flashes of brilliance.

So I would rank them

Parker
Rose
Rondo

I rate Rose higher because I like to have my guard able to score or cary my team when noone else can get a rhythm going. Plus it just bugs me Rondo is a Pg and can't shoot free throws or hit a 15 ft jump shot consistantly. This is the NBA. A jump shot is a must for me for a pg.

Call me old school. I will always take the proven all star vet over the upcoming 2 year player when it comes to top lists

ManRam
08-03-2010, 12:06 PM
Rondo easily. I think he's going this next season he takes yet another leap, and surpasses Nash finally as a top 3 PG.

Brooklyn Mets
08-03-2010, 12:08 PM
Rondo
Rose
Westbrook

Russell_Roberts
08-03-2010, 12:11 PM
the future... DERRICK ROSE

Jays Claw
08-03-2010, 12:18 PM
I'd take Rajon Rondo here.

xbrackattackx
08-03-2010, 12:19 PM
Rondo.

Gators123
08-03-2010, 12:19 PM
Rondo

Avenged
08-03-2010, 12:19 PM
Rondoooooooooo!

Chi-Town Sports
08-03-2010, 12:24 PM
I say Rose, Rose is better in my opinion because he carries his team. Put Rondo on the Bulls...i bet he is an irrelevant player in this conversation.

still1ballin
08-03-2010, 12:24 PM
Rose

zo#33
08-03-2010, 12:30 PM
Rondo

GAWDtv
08-03-2010, 12:49 PM
I took Rose as Rondo, like Kobe is serounde by All-Stars so it's hard to say how good he really is. Switch Rondo for Rose and I think Rose would put up better numbers than Rondo Does and Rondo's #'s would fall off without the big 3, spreading the floor. Rondo's shot is not consistent enough to put him this high on the list.

Tony Parker would be the best option however Rose is a game changer so I chose Rose over Mr. Parker (with humble appologies)

haggis
08-03-2010, 12:52 PM
I say Rose, Rose is better in my opinion because he carries his team. Put Rondo on the Bulls...i bet he is an irrelevant player in this conversation.

^ this

not to take anything away from Rondo. he is a very good player, but his job is made a hell of a lot easier with his supporting cast. swap the two, rose on the c's and rondo on the bulls. Rose > Rondo in that case.

unwantedplayer
08-03-2010, 12:55 PM
I say Rose, Rose is better in my opinion because he carries his team. Put Rondo on the Bulls...i bet he is an irrelevant player in this conversation.

Lol, did you watch the playoffs this year?

mikantsass
08-03-2010, 01:01 PM
Pretty much its Bulls fans voting Rose, everyone else voting Rondo

YoungOne
08-03-2010, 01:02 PM
I'm suprised at how disrespected Tony Parker is. He has one injury filled year and people forget about this finals MVP (2006-2007), 3 championship(s). Plus has been the starting PG on a great playoff team since he's been in the league. Then you got young bucks that come into the league and people label them as the next best thing which automatically puts them ahead of the vets. I guess I just don't get that.

Lets compare Parker and Rose.

Rose last year (his best year thus far) avg 20.8 ppg 6 assists 3.8 rebounds and .7 steals
Parker in 2009 (last full healthy year) avg 22 ppg 6.9 assists 3.1 rebounds and .9 steals

Parker is superior in every single stat excluding rebounds. Then you see that Parker avg more free throw attempts per game then rose. Shot a higher 3pt, fg, & free throw percentage then Rose.

Then you take Rondo, who is a little harder to compare to Parker because they are two different types of players.

Parker avgs nearly 10 more pts a game, but a full 3 less assists and less steals. Though Parker shoots a higher 3pt and free throw percentage then Rondo, which is something I think is a must for a pg. At least a high free throw percentage that is.


In saying this, I love Rondo and Rose, but when I put players at the very top I look at longetivity. Parker has been a great pg in this league for years now and has won at every level. Yes I'm going to put him before a 2-3 year guy who has showed flashes of brilliance.

So I would rank them

Parker
Rose
Rondo

I rate Rose higher because I like to have my guard able to score or cary my team when noone else can get a rhythm going. Plus it just bugs me Rondo is a Pg and can't shoot free throws or hit a 15 ft jump shot consistantly. This is the NBA. A jump shot is a must for me for a pg.

Call me old school. I will always take the proven all star vet over the upcoming 2 year player when it comes to top lists

it's about now and not the past...

Meriweather31
08-03-2010, 01:03 PM
Rondo. Next Year He's Top 3. Guranteed.

macc
08-03-2010, 01:07 PM
it's about now and not the past...



Even in talking now I still put Parker over Rondo and Rose. Though I see Rose as being comparable to Parker.

People forget about players when they are injured. Same thing happened to Chris Paul. He goes from undoubtably the #1 pg in the league, has one injured year and has already been dropped to #2. Fans have short term memories.

Corey
08-03-2010, 01:09 PM
Even in talking now I still put Parker over Rondo and Rose. Though I see Rose as being comparable to Parker.

People forget about players when they are injured. Same thing happened to Chris Paul. He goes from undoubtably the #1 pg in the league, has one injured year and has already been dropped to #2. Fans have short term memories.

He wasn't the 'undoubted" #1 anyways. There was the Williams vs Paul debate even before the injury.

Sadds The Gr8
08-03-2010, 01:14 PM
Rondoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooo

Kashmir13579
08-03-2010, 01:17 PM
I say Rose, Rose is better in my opinion because he carries his team. Put Rondo on the Bulls...i bet he is an irrelevant player in this conversation.

do you really think that rondo doesnt "carry his team"? the debate isn't who is the better scorer; its who is the better PG.... you said "put rondo on the bulls". ok. lets do that. if rondo is on the bulls the celtics might not make the playoffs, definitely not getting out of the first round. they didnt make it to game 7 of the finals on accident.

MU and UW Fan
08-03-2010, 01:21 PM
Rondo without a doubt

Bring The Heat
08-03-2010, 01:24 PM
Rajon Rondo

DaBUU
08-03-2010, 01:27 PM
Pretty much its Bulls fans voting Rose, everyone else voting Rondo

yup the usual bull **** hatred and jealousy around here.

Khalifa21
08-03-2010, 01:31 PM
You can't go wrong with either Rose or Rondo here.

DaBUU
08-03-2010, 01:32 PM
do you really think that rondo doesnt "carry his team"? the debate isn't who is the better scorer; its who is the better PG.... you said "put rondo on the bulls". ok. lets do that. if rondo is on the bulls the celtics might not make the playoffs, definitely not getting out of the first round. they didnt make it to game 7 of the finals on accident.

are ****ing nuts?? right here is a prime example of the blind hatred toward Rose just becuase us Bulls fans are unliked on this board. Thats the only reason someone would suggest that if Rose was on the Celtics they might not make the playoffs or would lose early. Proves my point right there.

roshan3ai
08-03-2010, 01:32 PM
Rondo by a small margin

mikantsass
08-03-2010, 01:33 PM
yup the usual bull **** hatred and jealousy around here.

And what exactly are we jealous of?

DaBUU
08-03-2010, 01:34 PM
And what exactly are we jealous of?

Bulls swag

magichatnumber9
08-03-2010, 01:39 PM
I say Rose, Rose is better in my opinion because he carries his team. Put Rondo on the Bulls...i bet he is an irrelevant player in this conversation.
Wrongdo. Shooting guards carry a team. Point guards lead it.

chipurmunki
08-03-2010, 01:41 PM
I'm suprised at how disrespected Tony Parker is. He has one injury filled year and people forget about this finals MVP (2006-2007), 3 championship(s). Plus has been the starting PG on a great playoff team since he's been in the league. Then you got young bucks that come into the league and people label them as the next best thing which automatically puts them ahead of the vets. I guess I just don't get that.

Lets compare Parker and Rose.

Rose last year (his best year thus far) avg 20.8 ppg 6 assists 3.8 rebounds and .7 steals
Parker in 2009 (last full healthy year) avg 22 ppg 6.9 assists 3.1 rebounds and .9 steals

Parker is superior in every single stat excluding rebounds. Then you see that Parker avg more free throw attempts per game then rose. Shot a higher 3pt, fg, & free throw percentage then Rose.

Then you take Rondo, who is a little harder to compare to Parker because they are two different types of players.

Parker avgs nearly 10 more pts a game, but a full 3 less assists and less steals. Though Parker shoots a higher 3pt and free throw percentage then Rondo, which is something I think is a must for a pg. At least a high free throw percentage that is.


In saying this, I love Rondo and Rose, but when I put players at the very top I look at longetivity. Parker has been a great pg in this league for years now and has won at every level. Yes I'm going to put him before a 2-3 year guy who has showed flashes of brilliance.

So I would rank them

Parker
Rose
Rondo

I rate Rose higher because I like to have my guard able to score or cary my team when noone else can get a rhythm going. Plus it just bugs me Rondo is a Pg and can't shoot free throws or hit a 15 ft jump shot consistantly. This is the NBA. A jump shot is a must for me for a pg.

Call me old school. I will always take the proven all star vet over the upcoming 2 year player when it comes to top lists

that's cool. my understanding was that the list was for the best point guard in 2010. must have read this thread wrong. parker definitely deserves consideration, but his injury issues rule him out for me. i doubt he has another healthy season left on his knees.

magichatnumber9
08-03-2010, 01:43 PM
^ this

not to take anything away from Rondo. he is a very good player, but his job is made a hell of a lot easier with his supporting cast. swap the two, rose on the c's and rondo on the bulls. Rose > Rondo in that case.Not to take anything away from your basketball knowledge but name me one player that can create there own shot off the dribble other then Rondo? Pierce maybe? Maybe not, his success rate is pitiful. Every geezer on that team needs a pic to get open. Rondo doesn't.

avrpatsfan
08-03-2010, 01:43 PM
I'm loving all of the Rondo love.

Sadds The Gr8
08-03-2010, 01:46 PM
Bulls swag

:facepalm::laugh2:

mikantsass
08-03-2010, 01:48 PM
Bulls swag

Hahahaha Lol ok... you are so right

avon_barksdale
08-03-2010, 01:54 PM
Rondo is da dude here... then da frenchmannn

Baller1
08-03-2010, 02:00 PM
Rondo.

S-Dot
08-03-2010, 02:04 PM
Rajon Rondo

29$JerZ
08-03-2010, 02:06 PM
Rondo

Niro
08-03-2010, 02:07 PM
rondo

goku
08-03-2010, 02:20 PM
rondoooo

Geargo Wallace
08-03-2010, 02:34 PM
out with the old in with the new

J_M_B
08-03-2010, 02:43 PM
Rondo easily, I think he's going to take yet another leap this season.

barbjake
08-03-2010, 02:55 PM
do you really think that rondo doesnt "carry his team"? the debate isn't who is the better scorer; its who is the better PG.... you said "put rondo on the bulls". ok. lets do that. if rondo is on the bulls the celtics might not make the playoffs, definitely not getting out of the first round. they didnt make it to game 7 of the finals on accident.

The idea is that Rose is on the Celtics also... in which case the Celts would be FINE! They would have been in the finals just the same. (MAYBE they would've actually won if they had a guy who could score regularly.)

Rose > Rondo

People just haven't seen Rose enough.

zambo4president
08-03-2010, 02:55 PM
Rose is definitely the guy here. Rose carried the Bulls by himself. Id like to see Rondo without the big 3.

RadiantShot
08-03-2010, 02:56 PM
Ron-doe

tredigs
08-03-2010, 03:04 PM
Rose is definitely the guy here. Rose carried the Bulls by himself. Id like to see Rondo without the big 3.

Totally! His vision/IQ, elite passing and slashing/finishing ability would be nothing without those guys. Also, he would regress into a SHADOW of Steve Nash defensively if he played for any other team.

These are FACTS, right my Bulls fans?! CAN I GET A HELLLYAAAHHHH!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


RONDO.

haggis
08-03-2010, 03:05 PM
Not to take anything away from your basketball knowledge but name me one player that can create there own shot off the dribble other then Rondo? Pierce maybe? Maybe not, his success rate is pitiful. Every geezer on that team needs a pic to get open. Rondo doesn't.

i believe you're talking about only the celtics here..

in that case, i'll agree that the big 3 have all lost a step, but they still demand attention on the offensive end where they have to be marked on the offensive end. rondo doesn't face many double teams (if any) because you cant leave players like ray allen, pierce and kg alone because they will kill you if they are left wide open. this in turn creates A LOT of spacing on the floor, equaling rondos ability to go where ever he wants on the floor. im not saying that rondo isnt a good pg, he is fantastic, I just think that he gets slightly overrated.

on the other hand, who does rose have on the bulls that takes any attention away from him on the offensive end? teams design their entire defensive sets against him, while in rondo's case, teams take away the other players on the floor, forcing rondo to beat them. and because he isn't a great scoring option, most teams will take that chance of having rondo go one on one and having him do the scoring. it is a lot easier when you have to beat one man instead of 5. thats all im trying to say...

Kashmir13579
08-03-2010, 03:19 PM
The idea is that Rose is on the Celtics also... in which case the Celts would be FINE! They would have been in the finals just the same. (MAYBE they would've actually won if they had a guy who could score regularly.)

Rose > Rondo

People just haven't seen Rose enough.

have you even watched rondo play? i know roses game just fine. if you look at the stats of both of them when they meet in the playoffs rondo owns everytime. you can't argue with numbers. you can't argue with results. since the bulls are supposed to be good this year we'll see what rose can do with a real team. your arguements have been that rose has been with mediocre squads and thats why he can't get other players involved. i guess we'll see this year. but rondo is already proven. he's won a championship, and he has no problem taking down rose; actually rondo has better stats when he's playing against rose. the only people that think rose is better are bulls fans and that says it all.

heattiltheend94
08-03-2010, 03:20 PM
I say Rose, Rose is better in my opinion because he carries his team. Put Rondo on the Bulls...i bet he is an irrelevant player in this conversation.

Rose carried them where? They barely made the playoffs. Rondo carried them to the finals.

tredigs
08-03-2010, 03:21 PM
i believe you're talking about only the celtics here..

in that case, i'll agree that the big 3 have all lost a step, but they still demand attention on the offensive end where they have to be marked on the offensive end. rondo doesn't face many double teams (if any) because you cant leave players like ray allen, pierce and kg alone because they will kill you if they are left wide open. this in turn creates A LOT of spacing on the floor, equaling rondos ability to go where ever he wants on the floor. im not saying that rondo isnt a good pg, he is fantastic, I just think that he gets slightly overrated.

on the other hand, who does rose have on the bulls that takes any attention away from him on the offensive end? teams design their entire defensive sets against him, while in rondo's case, teams take away the other players on the floor, forcing rondo to beat them. and because he isn't a great scoring option, most teams will take that chance of having rondo go one on one and having him do the scoring. it is a lot easier when you have to beat one man instead of 5. thats all im trying to say...

Contrary to popular belief by some Bulls fans, Chicago actually did play with 4 other players on the floor. Luol Deng does require attention, he's basically Rudy Gay who can't dunk as hard. And every team knew that if you left Kirk open, he's draining the three. They're not the Celtics, but that can work both ways statistically. Rose has a 27% USG% to Rondo's 20%. That's a LOT more time with the ball in your hands to make things happen/pile up stats. Rondo still having a win-share total of 10 to Roses 6 last season even with such a higher USG% says a lot about what Rondo does for that team.

He's the best player on what was nearly the best team in the league (and if Perk wasn't out in game 7, I think they would have been). He's also still better than Rose at this point.

Kashmir13579
08-03-2010, 03:25 PM
woops

Kashmir13579
08-03-2010, 03:29 PM
are ****ing nuts?? right here is a prime example of the blind hatred toward Rose just becuase us Bulls fans are unliked on this board. Thats the only reason someone would suggest that if Rose was on the Celtics they might not make the playoffs or would lose early. Proves my point right there.

ummmm... i didnt say rose was on the celtics in my scenario; so i'm not exactly sure what point you proved.

haggis
08-03-2010, 03:34 PM
Contrary to popular belief by some Bulls fans, Chicago actually did play with 4 other players on the floor. Luol Deng does require attention, he's basically Rudy Gay who can't dunk as hard. And every team knew that if you left Kirk open, he's draining the three. They're not the Celtics, but that can work both ways statistically. Rose has a 27% USG% to Rondo's 20%. That's a LOT more time with the ball in your hands to make things happen/pile up stats. Rondo still having a win-share total of 10 to Roses 6 last season even with such a higher USG% says a lot about what Rondo does for that team.

He's the best player on what was nearly the best team in the league (and if Perk wasn't out in game 7, I think they would have been). He's also still better than Rose at this point.

what were you watching?

but i agree. again, im not saying that rondo isn't good. he is most definitely top 4 or 5 pgs in the league, (by far #1 defensively). i'm just making the argument that life is a little easier when you have 3 HOFers on the floor with you. rondo will have a lot to maintain once the big 3 are gone.

IversonIsKrazy
08-03-2010, 03:34 PM
Derrick Rose. He has a better shot, and better handling than Rondo. But Rondo has better defense. Passing can be argued, I mean Rondo has 3 future Hall of Famers to pass the rock to, while Rose last year had an injured Deng and Noah, with the incosistent shooting of Hinrich. Rose gets my vote.

xxdc2tegxx
08-03-2010, 03:38 PM
Contrary to popular belief by some Bulls fans, Chicago actually did play with 4 other players on the floor. Luol Deng does require attention, he's basically Rudy Gay who can't dunk as hard. And every team knew that if you left Kirk open, he's draining the three. They're not the Celtics, but that can work both ways statistically. Rose has a 27% USG% to Rondo's 20%. That's a LOT more time with the ball in your hands to make things happen/pile up stats. Rondo still having a win-share total of 10 to Roses 6 last season even with such a higher USG% says a lot about what Rondo does for that team.

He's the best player on what was nearly the best team in the league (and if Perk wasn't out in game 7, I think they would have been). He's also still better than Rose at this point.

Did you just compare Luol Deng to Rudy Gay? The only thing better about Deng is his mid-range. Rudy gets a lot more attention based on his elite level athleticism combined with everything else that he does comparable or better than deng.

And Hinrich dropping draining the 3? :facepalm: thats like saying if teams leave steve blake open in the lane...hes gonna dunk it

Besides the clear cut top 2 PG's Deron and CP3 it seems as though winning plays a huge part on our arguments for PRO-Rondo. Whether his supporting cast is responsible for this....we'll argue this to the death.

For the non-bias fan though...and GM...I find it hard to see Rose not above Rondo. Now that Rose has weapons we will can sort of compare apples to apples. On the flip side once the big three is gone...will be able to compare Rondo's game to Rose's first 2 years.

haggis
08-03-2010, 03:42 PM
For the non-bias fan though...and GM...I find it hard to see Rose not above Rondo. Now that Rose has weapons we will can sort of compare apples to apples. On the flip side once the big three is gone...will be able to compare Rondo's game to Rose's first 2 years.

This is a good point. I wonder if you polled the GMs of the league and asked who they would want as their PG of the future and see what they would say... All other points being equal (leadership, toughness, health, etc) would you go with a great defending PG or a great offensive PG?

setter
08-03-2010, 03:59 PM
rose... he will be better than rondo this year and people will start excepting it... rose can carry a team rondo cant.

haggis
08-03-2010, 04:08 PM
rose... he will be better than rondo this year and people will start excepting it... rose can carry a team rondo cant.

you must be a cocky bulls fan :rolleyes:

MacFitz92
08-03-2010, 04:12 PM
rose... he will be better than rondo this year and people will start excepting it... rose can carry a team rondo cant.

First of all, it's accepting.

You can't go wrong with Rose or Rondo. Rose is more versatile on offense, but Rondo is the best defensive PG out there, and has some pretty good moves on offense. Both of them are solid passers.

Bruno
08-03-2010, 04:14 PM
Rondo.

Followed by Rose and RW.

VinceCarter
08-03-2010, 04:19 PM
This list was flawed when somehow CP3 wasn't voted #1.

smiddy012
08-03-2010, 04:20 PM
I say Rose, Rose is better in my opinion because he carries his team. Put Rondo on the Bulls...i bet he is an irrelevant player in this conversation.

You put Rondo on the Bulls then Rose moves over to SG so I guess that would make Rose irrelevant from the conversation ;). But I get your point, with a backcourt of Rondo/Rose, Rose would be the playmaker, Rondo the role player. Only thing Rondo has had over Rose is defense/rebounding and a better team around him. Almost every GM in the NBA would rather build a team around Rose, that's just plain logic. Rose's ceiling is much higher than Rondos. And when youre talking maturity and leadership it's Rose. There's a reason Rose is currently (and always will be) ahead of Rondo for team USA.

haggis
08-03-2010, 04:25 PM
You put Rondo on the Bulls then Rose moves over to SG so I guess that would make Rose irrelevant from the conversation ;). But I get your point, with a backcourt of Rondo/Rose, Rose would be the playmaker, Rondo the role player. Only thing Rondo has had over Rose is defense/rebounding and a better team around him.

i believe he was saying to swap the two (last years roster):

rose
allen
pierce
kg
perk

rondo
hinrich
deng
taj gibson
noah

Kyben36
08-03-2010, 04:29 PM
Rondo/Rose, I cant put either in front of another, Rondo gets more assist, but he also cant score, and has alot more talent around him

Rose is a much better scorer, is finaly getting some tallent, so hopefully he is going to be the #4, but its still too close to call wihtout seeing how the season unfolds.

gbrl
08-03-2010, 04:36 PM
its rondo here for me

Redbull
08-03-2010, 04:50 PM
Rose for me, after this year you guys will all change your mind.

Strumpy
08-03-2010, 04:57 PM
Rondo, because I'm bias.

LTS
08-03-2010, 04:59 PM
I cant argue with Dwill above CP3 but suprised and I voted Rondo for #4

LTS
08-03-2010, 05:00 PM
Rose for me, after this year you guys will all change your mind.

its based off of last year will talk about this year...well after this year

TehSamurai
08-03-2010, 05:00 PM
Rose carried them where? They barely made the playoffs. Rondo carried them to the finals.

Rondo didn't carry anybody anywhere. Pierce and Allen were very good in the first round and KG whipped Jamison in the semi-finals.

And Rondo proceeded to brick open jumpers and free throws in the Finals.

John Walls Era
08-03-2010, 05:01 PM
Rondo. Hes a better playmaker than Rose IMO. I like Rose more, but Rondo is the better PG.

chris34
08-03-2010, 05:05 PM
Of course I am biased but I think that Rose is clearly better than Rondo. For all of the criticism Rose has gotten about his shooting, Rondo is miles behind him. He can't even make free throws, which I have never understood for an NBA PG.
Hasn't USA basketball this summer shown who the clear front runner is between these 2?

Chi City23
08-03-2010, 05:10 PM
Rondo. Hes a better playmaker than Rose IMO. I like Rose more, but Rondo is the better PG.

You could make the argument that Rondo is a better facilitator than Rose, but no way is he a better playmaker. Rose is one of the best playmakers in the NBA with his handles, quickness and athletism, the problem was he had no finishers on his team to capitalize on his abilities.

If Rose doesn't average over 20 points and 8 assists this year I will be really surprised!

tredigs
08-03-2010, 05:24 PM
Did you just compare Luol Deng to Rudy Gay? The only thing better about Deng is his mid-range. Rudy gets a lot more attention based on his elite level athleticism combined with everything else that he does comparable or better than deng.

And Hinrich dropping draining the 3? :facepalm: thats like saying if teams leave steve blake open in the lane...hes gonna dunk it

Besides the clear cut top 2 PG's Deron and CP3 it seems as though winning plays a huge part on our arguments for PRO-Rondo. Whether his supporting cast is responsible for this....we'll argue this to the death.

For the non-bias fan though...and GM...I find it hard to see Rose not above Rondo. Now that Rose has weapons we will can sort of compare apples to apples. On the flip side once the big three is gone...will be able to compare Rondo's game to Rose's first 2 years.

Yes, I just compared a guy who averages about:
18/7/2 + 1stl 1blk to a guy who averages 19/6/2 + 1.5stl 1blk (both with nearly identical ts%'s at .530 and .528). With 2010 PER's of = 16.2 and 16.1 and win shares of 6 to 6.4.

^Just CRAZY to compare Gay to Deng, you're right...

And I guess Hinrich hitting .38% on 4+ threes a game over his career doesn't impress you, but it's the mark of a pretty damn solid perimeter shooter. You seem to think that players completely change based on their teammates, but this isn't the case as much as people like to think, especially for someone like Rondo. They don't even guard the kid on the perimeter, so what exactly would change? Maybe somebody can track down the games I'm talking about, but I remember a game where "the big three" were out yet Rondo still played in the past year. He got something like 15 assists that game -- he's the same player with or without those guys, which combined with his elite level of defense - is a tier ahead of Rose still.

n83417
08-03-2010, 05:29 PM
You could make the argument that Rondo is a better facilitator than Rose, but no way is he a better playmaker. Rose is one of the best playmakers in the NBA with his handles, quickness and athletism, the problem was he had no finishers on his team to capitalize on his abilities.

If Rose doesn't average over 20 points and 8 assists this year I will be really surprised!

If Rose averages more than 6.5 assists I will be shocked.



For all the people saying Rondo can't shoot, can not score, his FG% was still over 50% for the second consecutive year, (.492 in 07/08) so the guy is taking high percentage shots, and making them. Rondo takes over games when the big 3 are slacking, which happens often.

Rondo is the best player on the Celtics. Rondo is the one making the Big Three look better than they currently are.

X12Celtics3
08-03-2010, 05:47 PM
I definitely take Rondo here, I would take him over Nash as well but I am obviously biased.

What?
08-03-2010, 06:14 PM
have you even watched rondo play? i know roses game just fine. if you look at the stats of both of them when they meet in the playoffs rondo owns everytime. you can't argue with numbers. you can't argue with results. since the bulls are supposed to be good this year we'll see what rose can do with a real team. your arguements have been that rose has been with mediocre squads and thats why he can't get other players involved. i guess we'll see this year. but rondo is already proven. he's won a championship, and he has no problem taking down rose; actually rondo has better stats when he's playing against rose. the only people that think rose is better are bulls fans and that says it all.

Did you see the last time Rose faced Rondo. Rose scored 39 points 7 assists 5 rebounds on .682 from the field.

Rondo scored 4 points 6 assists 3rebounds on 2 for 10 from the field so who had the better game???

Hustlenomics
08-03-2010, 06:25 PM
Pretty much its Bulls fans voting Rose, everyone else voting Rondo

^

Hustlenomics
08-03-2010, 06:30 PM
rose... he will be better than rondo this year and people will start excepting it... rose can carry a team rondo cant.

rose can carry a team out the first round while rondo carries his team to a championship ..smh @ hating on rondo to make rose look better

Nighthawk
08-03-2010, 06:48 PM
Rondo...

XxigglesphanxX
08-03-2010, 07:00 PM
sorry bulls fans. your homerism doesnt get it done. there arent more bulls fans on here than people. rondo is better. hate to brake it to you but id take chauncy over him too

mikantsass
08-03-2010, 07:06 PM
sorry bulls fans. your homerism doesnt get it done. there arent more bulls fans on here than people. rondo is better. hate to brake it to you but id take chauncy over him too

Parker and Westbrook too...

XxigglesphanxX
08-03-2010, 07:11 PM
Parker and Westbrook too...

neither. id take chanucys leadership and his poise and everything down to the fact that he has gotten a ring. for a season ill take chauncy. a guy you know no doubt will go in every night and play his heart out.

n83417
08-03-2010, 07:11 PM
Parker and Westbrook too...

I agree. Rose is ridiculously overrated.

Reversed86Curse
08-03-2010, 07:26 PM
You put Rondo on the Bulls then Rose moves over to SG so I guess that would make Rose irrelevant from the conversation ;). But I get your point, with a backcourt of Rondo/Rose, Rose would be the playmaker, Rondo the role player. Only thing Rondo has had over Rose is defense/rebounding, assists, FG%, WS and two totally amazing playoff performances, and a better team around him. Almost every GM in the NBA would rather build a team around Rose, that's just plain logic. Rose's ceiling is much higher than Rondos. And when youre talking maturity and leadership it's Rose. There's a reason Rose is currently (and always will be) ahead of Rondo for team USA.

Fixed it for ya! :)

northsider
08-03-2010, 07:31 PM
Its funny how everyone is calling Bulls fans homers for voting Rose when all the people that are voting against him wouldn't vote for him even if he was the better true PG cause you guys just hate the bulls that much.

As a true PG sure it is Rondo but, as a player no chance in hell I am counting on Rondo to be a number 1 on a team I don't give a **** what anyone says don't be blinded by your pure hatred for the Bulls which is extremely noticeable.

I will vote Rondo and he is a fine player but, anyone saying having three veterans all once considered top players is def. going to give you a boost.

The hate on the NBA forum is a joke cause most of you can never be taken seriously. Maybe one day the NBA forum won't suck so much.

Reversed86Curse
08-03-2010, 07:43 PM
Its funny how everyone is calling Bulls fans homers for voting Rose when all the people that are voting against him wouldn't vote for him even if he was the better true PG cause you guys just hate the bulls that much.

As a true PG sure it is Rondo but, as a player no chance in hell I am counting on Rondo to be a number 1 on a team I don't give a **** what anyone says don't be blinded by your pure hatred for the Bulls which is extremely noticeable.

I will vote Rondo and he is a fine player but, anyone saying having three veterans all once considered top players is def. going to give you a boost.

The hate on the NBA forum is a joke cause most of you can never be taken seriously. Maybe one day the NBA forum won't suck so much.

I'd agree with you except that last year, it was rare to have 2, not to mention 3 of the Big 3 on the floor at once, and Rondo was leaps and bounds better than the year before. And besides, everyone was saying how the Big 3 were old, washed up and done last year, so now that they beat the best in the East and took the Lakers to 7 and almost won, they're so much better? People should make up there minds: the Big 3's all washed up and bums, or future HOFers that make Rondo what he is.... can't have both (personally, I say neither, there's still gas in the tank and Rondo's driving the car)

northsider
08-03-2010, 07:51 PM
I'd agree with you except that last year, it was rare to have 2, not to mention 3 of the Big 3 on the floor at once, and Rondo was leaps and bounds better than the year before. And besides, everyone was saying how the Big 3 were old, washed up and done last year, so now that they beat the best in the East and took the Lakers to 7 and almost won, they're so much better? People should make up there minds: the Big 3's all washed up and bums, or future HOFers that make Rondo what he is.... can't have both (personally, I say neither, there's still gas in the tank and Rondo's driving the car)

Same situation for you is for Bulls people hate them on here so they just won't ever say a positive although I do know it gets shoved down allot of peoples throats which is def. annoying even as a Bulls fan. Those 3 are a presence on any team and not just role players. Rondo is in a good situation to be the life to a team with great players. I hate the term spark but, he is and the Celtics can be one hell of a fire when they get going.

Rondo is in his perfect role there he has his shooters and low post scorers allowing him to be in a situation to utilize him 100% to his ability and he shows it when they play. It also helps he is around smart players as well who have been around the game and have played at the highest level you possibly can. I am not going to bash Rondo although I am not a Celtics fan I give credit where credit is due something a majority of people in the NBA forum have a hard time doing.

SANDBURG23
08-03-2010, 08:03 PM
Don't forget Starbury he will rip it up in China.

Ragun
08-03-2010, 08:15 PM
it really depends on the type of PG i want...i would probably take rose by a hair.

Reversed86Curse
08-03-2010, 08:18 PM
Same situation for you is for Bulls people hate them on here so they just won't ever say a positive although I do know it gets shoved down allot of peoples throats which is def. annoying even as a Bulls fan. Those 3 are a presence on any team and not just role players. Rondo is in a good situation to be the life to a team with great players. I hate the term spark but, he is and the Celtics can be one hell of a fire when they get going.

Rondo is in his perfect role there he has his shooters and low post scorers allowing him to be in a situation to utilize him 100% to his ability and he shows it when they play. It also helps he is around smart players as well who have been around the game and have played at the highest level you possibly can. I am not going to bash Rondo although I am not a Celtics fan I give credit where credit is due something a majority of people in the NBA forum have a hard time doing.

I can respect your opinion

dolfan720
08-03-2010, 08:27 PM
RONDO NO QUeStiOn

mikantsass
08-03-2010, 08:37 PM
Its funny how everyone is calling Bulls fans homers for voting Rose when all the people that are voting against him wouldn't vote for him even if he was the better true PG cause you guys just hate the bulls that much.

As a true PG sure it is Rondo but, as a player no chance in hell I am counting on Rondo to be a number 1 on a team I don't give a **** what anyone says don't be blinded by your pure hatred for the Bulls which is extremely noticeable.

I will vote Rondo and he is a fine player but, anyone saying having three veterans all once considered top players is def. going to give you a boost.

The hate on the NBA forum is a joke cause most of you can never be taken seriously. Maybe one day the NBA forum won't suck so much.

You can thank your fellow Bulls fanboys for making it that way.

Avenged
08-03-2010, 08:42 PM
As of right now, It's Rondo.

Although, I do believe Rose will take a big step this season and become an ever better point guard considering the team he has around him.

Rondo also has the potential to do the same, 50/50.

Hiphopopotamus
08-03-2010, 08:59 PM
Bulls fan, living in Celtic country...it's Rose. I have mad respect for Rondo, when I watch the local broadcast I always come away saying Rondo is amazing, but cannot be the 3rd best at your position shooting so horribly from the stripe and outside of 12-15 feet...if the teams were switched as a few people mentioned Rondo would struggle. The Bulls had no outside shooting or inside scoring last year. Rose had to carry that offense, Rondo simple could not do that.

Afro
08-03-2010, 09:30 PM
Bulls fan, living in Celtic country...it's Rose. I have mad respect for Rondo, when I watch the local broadcast I always come away saying Rondo is amazing, but cannot be the 3rd best at your position shooting so horribly from the stripe and outside of 12-15 feet...if the teams were switched as a few people mentioned Rondo would struggle. The Bulls had no outside shooting or inside scoring last year. Rose had to carry that offense, Rondo simple could not do that.


Wrong. Rose is the most overrated player ever and wouldn't even be on Team USA if it wasn't for these Bulls homers hyping him up. Coach K must be a Bulls fan because there's no way Rose should even be in consideration for starting pg on Team USA. Rondo on the other hand is already the GOAT at pg and is a combination of an unstoppable force/immovable object. Put Rondo on any team in the NBA and that team is guaranteed to make the Finals and lose to the Lakers in seven games. If you switched Rose and Rondo for their respective teams then the Bulls would have lost to the Lakers the last three years in Game 7, while the Celtics would probably get outta the first round but not much else. It all comes down to who can lead a team (Rondo), and who is the most overrated player ever who no sane coach/gm would want leading their team because they'll never get out of the first round no matter how much talent you put around them (Rose).

Mr Moody
08-03-2010, 09:32 PM
The true test will be in 3+ years, to see Rondo w/o 3 HOF's, then we will be able to settle this argument.

Mr Moody
08-03-2010, 09:33 PM
Wrong. Rose is the most overrated player ever and wouldn't even be on Team USA if it wasn't for these Bulls homers hyping him up. Coach K must be a Bulls fan because there's no way Rose should even be in consideration for starting pg on Team USA. Rondo on the other hand is already the GOAT at pg and is a combination of an unstoppable force/immovable object. Put Rondo on any team in the NBA and that team is guaranteed to make the Finals and lose to the Lakers in seven games. If you switched Rose and Rondo for their respective teams then the Bulls would have lost to the Lakers the last three years in Game 7, while the Celtics would probably get outta the first round but not much else. It all comes down to who can lead a team (Rondo), and who is the most overrated player ever who no sane coach/gm would want leading their team because they'll never get out of the first round no matter how much talent you put around them (Rose).

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: This better be a level.....

jackdawson
08-03-2010, 09:55 PM
This is not even close imo. Rondo for sureeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!

gbpackers12
08-03-2010, 09:57 PM
It's definitely Rondo right now. I think Rose will make his push this season, but for now i'll take Rondo.

td0tsfinest
08-03-2010, 10:03 PM
I chose Rondo. Had an absolute stellar year and is probably the best defender out of all the PGs this past season.

blams
08-03-2010, 10:30 PM
Rondo better than rose? :laugh2:

ALL_i-Do_is-Win
08-03-2010, 10:36 PM
Its funny how everyone is calling Bulls fans homers for voting Rose when all the people that are voting against him wouldn't vote for him even if he was the better true PG cause you guys just hate the bulls that much.

As a true PG sure it is Rondo but, as a player no chance in hell I am counting on Rondo to be a number 1 on a team I don't give a **** what anyone says don't be blinded by your pure hatred for the Bulls which is extremely noticeable.

I will vote Rondo and he is a fine player but, anyone saying having three veterans all once considered top players is def. going to give you a boost.

The hate on the NBA forum is a joke cause most of you can never be taken seriously. Maybe one day the NBA forum won't suck so much.

:clap:
completely agree
i am one of the biggest d rose fans but not a homer
rondo is better pg in better situation
but rose is better player in worse situation
rose will have chance of proving people otherwise this year but people will defiantly take rondo over rose for now and i am not mad
this year i think rose will jump into another level and maybe get vote or two for mvp if the bulls win 50+ games

blams
08-03-2010, 10:36 PM
:clap:
completely agree
i am one of the biggest d rose fans but not a homer
rondo is better pg in better situation
but rose is player in worse situation
rose will have chance of proving people otherwise this year but people will defiantly take rondo over rose for now and i am not mad
this year i think rose will jump into another level and maybe get vote or two for mvp if the bulls win 50+ games

Rondo is pathetic offensively, and that puts him below Rose.

TheGsw
08-03-2010, 10:37 PM
Rondo

ALL_i-Do_is-Win
08-03-2010, 10:40 PM
Wrong. Rose is the most overrated player ever and wouldn't even be on Team USA if it wasn't for these Bulls homers hyping him up. Coach K must be a Bulls fan because there's no way Rose should even be in consideration for starting pg on Team USA. Rondo on the other hand is already the GOAT at pg and is a combination of an unstoppable force/immovable object. Put Rondo on any team in the NBA and that team is guaranteed to make the Finals and lose to the Lakers in seven games. If you switched Rose and Rondo for their respective teams then the Bulls would have lost to the Lakers the last three years in Game 7, while the Celtics would probably get outta the first round but not much else. It all comes down to who can lead a team (Rondo), and who is the most overrated player ever who no sane coach/gm would want leading their team because they'll never get out of the first round no matter how much talent you put around them (Rose).

now this guy...:facepalm:
he just made rondo a god and rose a bum...
took a lot of creditability from himself and Celtics especially big 3...
i am out of words or i don't have enough words to explain my anger?
rose made the us team becasue of fans?
he is about to start because of fans?
of course coach k is a Drose fan because of the skills d rose brings..:facepalm:
i don't like the fact that people say if Drose was on Celtics they wouldn't be a playoff team that is just not realistic

Gators123
08-03-2010, 10:42 PM
I'm not exactly sure how offensive ratings work but according to Basketball Reference Rondo has a better offensive rating than Rose.

Maybe somebody could explain that to me :shrug:

Kyben36
08-03-2010, 10:54 PM
I voted Kidd, just becuase I cant make up my mind on who will be better.

Ronodo was clearly better last year, but if we are talking about this year, rose has alot more help, and an actual offense/coach will realy help him.

My homer opionion wants to say rose, but the nba fan in me says its too close to call.

xbrackattackx
08-03-2010, 11:11 PM
When it comes to scoring I'm not gonna lie Rose is on another level then Rondo period. But when it comes to Defense and Running a team and Setting up the offense. Rondo just has Rose beat. Rose will be a all-star no doubt Rondo may never be as big as rose gets. But Rondo is a better over all pg. Rose is like Arenas a all star who can get about 8 assist a game and 30 points and there's nothing wrong with that. I just want a pg who is gonna facilitate not carry scoring duties. Rose can be a number one option and Rondo is better at setting up the number one option which is what a PG is there for.

XJW18
08-03-2010, 11:33 PM
Rondoooooooooooooooooo!

jdmd3
08-03-2010, 11:44 PM
I love Rondo, but you gotta give this to Rose. Rose doesn't have the luxury of having 3 great players to dish to. Rose gets my vote for being the Bull's franchise player.

Cool007
08-03-2010, 11:59 PM
Rose pretty easily.

Let me put it this way to all of those that says Rondo carried the Celtics team to the playoffs and deep in the playoffs.

Let me ask you this.

Boston wins quite a few games when Rondo only scores 8 points - including in the playoffs.

Do you think Bulls win if Rose scores only 8 points in any game, let alone playoffs.

Shows clearly how stacked and talented Boston team has been last 3+ years. It's very easy to just concentrate on the little things and be a fascilitator. Imagine if Rondo had to be the 1st option on offense? with terrible FT shooting and not having a good mid-range game. That would be big trouble for ANY team he is on.

But for Celtics, having ton of weapons (Allen/Pierce/KG/Big Baby/Tony Allen/Sheed/etc).

Really, is it really hard for some of you to understand?

Kyben36
08-04-2010, 12:07 AM
I think I have actualy made up my mind, that Rose is better, and here is my reasoning, do you think you can win more games if Rose is your best player, or Rondo is your best player. IMO, Rondo is a great player, but its hard for me to beleive that he would look nearly as good if it wasnt for the fact that he has 3 allstars next to him. if rose had KG Peirce and Ray drawing doubles, and creating lanes. Rose would IMO be clearly the better player. I just dont think you can build a team around rondo. he isnt a good enough scorer to be a #1 option, he can create plenty of looks for others, but Rose can carry a team, nad has done it multiple times. Rondo, has never been able to put a team on his back.

Afro
08-04-2010, 12:11 AM
My post was 100% sarcasm fellas. :p

Kyben36
08-04-2010, 12:19 AM
My post was 100% sarcasm fellas. :p

I had a fealing, I mena, you have a noah pic, why would you hate rose.

jackdawson
08-04-2010, 12:26 AM
Rondo all day. 100 times in 100 times with my eyes closed.

Reversed86Curse
08-04-2010, 06:47 PM
I think I have actualy made up my mind, that Rose is better, and here is my reasoning, do you think you can win more games if Rose is your best player, or Rondo is your best player. IMO, Rondo is a great player, but its hard for me to beleive that he would look nearly as good if it wasnt for the fact that he has 3 allstars next to him. if rose had KG Peirce and Ray drawing doubles, and creating lanes. Rose would IMO be clearly the better player. I just dont think you can build a team around rondo. he isnt a good enough scorer to be a #1 option, he can create plenty of looks for others, but Rose can carry a team, nad has done it multiple times. Rondo, has never been able to put a team on his back.

Rondo was the best player on the C's last year, and they won more games than the Bulls, so your logic doesn't work there. Also, a true point guard isn't supposed to be the number one option. Steve Nash was the number one PG in the league for how many years? And he was not looked at as the first option on offense. Rondo put the C's on his back for at least 75% of the season last year, he was the best player for the C's all year, and a majority of the time one or two of the big three were out of the lineup. I don't care how many 'future hall of famers' your team has, if they're not in the line up or producing, it means nothing. PSD'ers need to stop using that as their argument crutch

Reversed86Curse
08-04-2010, 06:49 PM
Rondo is pathetic offensively, and that puts him below Rose.

Rose may be better offensively than Rondo but Rondo is superior to Rose in every aspect of being a PG.... a true PG, something Rose is not