PDA

View Full Version : Man has NASCAR gone downhill...



coloradobuff
08-02-2010, 01:46 PM
NASCAR used to be decent sport 5+ years ago..But now its a joke..

Attendence at events is rapidly decreasing and the product is very predictable thesedays (there hardly ever is any longshots that win these days compared to early 2000's)..

Another thing i think that stinks about the product is that sprint cup drivers that are legitimately good, race in the nationwide series..makes no sense to me..Ex: kyle busch won last weeks nationwide race..why is he is even racing in it? for money, when in fact the people who need to hone their skills should be racing in it..he is taking money from someone who needs the money more..

Will NASCAR ever rebound back..I dont think so...

DCSportsIsPain
08-02-2010, 01:56 PM
The whole chase system is useless since the drivers are always too far apart in points for it to matter. They were trying to create competition and they failed. They need to rethink the entire structure of the points system and change or eliminate the chase.

coloradobuff
08-02-2010, 03:19 PM
You are dead on correct buddy..will make it way more interesting to do ANYTHING else almost..

Mike515089
08-02-2010, 06:46 PM
Yes they are going downhill and fast. There are several things that are hurting the sport I will just name a few.

1. Jimmie Johnson, I give props that he has won 4 strait titles but the same guy winning constantly makes it boring and predictable

2. Lack of excitment and commitment from the broadcasts. Tnt seems to care about Nascar and I like what they d but Espn and Fox seem to just throw it in where ever it fits. They own the rights to, to many sports.

3. Nationwide Series, it has become a joke. The series used to be about developing young drivers now half the guys in there are cup drivers. That will not showcase the young drivers and all it does is ensure the cup drivers get max tv time.

4. BS Cautions. It has become blatently obvious that when ever theres about 15 or 20 laps to go and there going to try a mysteyr caution to bunch the field up at the end. They also seem to do it when a Hendrick driver begins to struggel coinsidence?

5. Car of tommarow, yes its safe and all but the actual racing has evaperated.

6. To much safety? Yes there is a thing as to much safety, no i dont want to see guys getting killed but a little less safety adds to the excitment. After seeing Edwards crash last year and Salers crash the other day im convinced there is no way anyone can be killed in a crash.

7. Ruining good tracks, Bristol had two of the best races of the year. Every race was very exciting now they repaved it is garbage. The restrictor plate racing, Talladega this spring was one of the best races i seen there in a few years. But for what ever reason eveyr season they have to change the restirctor plate packages.

8. To many 1.5 tracks. It is pretty obvious that fans enjoy short tracks, restrictor plate, and even road course racing. We need less 1.5 tracks and more of those.

9. The chase, the first couple years it was around it was exciting and new now it is boring because the #48 has figured it out so well they cant lose.

10. Change the races in the chase. Instead of the same 10 races Johnson prepares for every season mix it up. Throw a road course in there if you have to. And change the 10 races around every year so this doesnt happen again.

ripjhb18
08-02-2010, 07:22 PM
Yes they are going downhill and fast. There are several things that are hurting the sport I will just name a few.

1. Jimmie Johnson, I give props that he has won 4 strait titles but the same guy winning constantly makes it boring and predictable

2. Lack of excitment and commitment from the broadcasts. Tnt seems to care about Nascar and I like what they d but Espn and Fox seem to just throw it in where ever it fits. They own the rights to, to many sports.

3. Nationwide Series, it has become a joke. The series used to be about developing young drivers now half the guys in there are cup drivers. That will not showcase the young drivers and all it does is ensure the cup drivers get max tv time.

4. BS Cautions. It has become blatently obvious that when ever theres about 15 or 20 laps to go and there going to try a mysteyr caution to bunch the field up at the end. They also seem to do it when a Hendrick driver begins to struggel coinsidence?

5. Car of tommarow, yes its safe and all but the actual racing has evaperated.

6. To much safety? Yes there is a thing as to much safety, no i dont want to see guys getting killed but a little less safety adds to the excitment. After seeing Edwards crash last year and Salers crash the other day im convinced there is no way anyone can be killed in a crash.

7. Ruining good tracks, Bristol had two of the best races of the year. Every race was very exciting now they repaved it is garbage. The restrictor plate racing, Talladega this spring was one of the best races i seen there in a few years. But for what ever reason eveyr season they have to change the restirctor plate packages.

8. To many 1.5 tracks. It is pretty obvious that fans enjoy short tracks, restrictor plate, and even road course racing. We need less 1.5 tracks and more of those.

9. The chase, the first couple years it was around it was exciting and new now it is boring because the #48 has figured it out so well they cant lose.

10. Change the races in the chase. Instead of the same 10 races Johnson prepares for every season mix it up. Throw a road course in there if you have to. And change the 10 races around every year so this doesnt happen again.

Wow.

DCSportsIsPain
08-02-2010, 07:26 PM
Drivers used to do this with actual stock cars, not stock-appearing cars that have not a single stock part on them. The driver skill element has been all but eliminated from the sport.

Mike515089
08-03-2010, 05:40 AM
Wow.

Im serious. I dont want to see people get hurt, but it comes with the sport. Look at Indycars, there hayday came when speed records kept getting broken and they wanted to tune in to see if the drivers could actualy control the cars and race them at that speed because it there was a good chance they where going to get hurt. Look at Nascar, there popularity soared after Dale Sr. died.

ripjhb18
08-03-2010, 05:38 PM
Im serious. I dont want to see people get hurt, but it comes with the sport. Look at Indycars, there hayday came when speed records kept getting broken and they wanted to tune in to see if the drivers could actualy control the cars and race them at that speed because it there was a good chance they where going to get hurt. Look at Nascar, there popularity soared after Dale Sr. died.

Yup, I am sure Sadler dying on Sunday would have helped the sport become more popular.

Nymfan87
08-06-2010, 12:55 PM
I completely agree that they destroyed Bristol. I'm also kind of tired of the cars being required to run the high line, because I think it makes passing harder on tracks like Michigan where the guy running the bottom can't pass a car running high that he is faster than because if you pull up along side the guy coming off the turn, you can't run all the way up to the wall and you lose speed while the guy running high doesn't get slowed down.

And I COMPLETELY agree about more short tracks being needed. So many 1.5 mile tracks turns half of the races into a yawn-fest. This also plays into the high line thing, because you have to run the high line at almost every mile and a half track now.

The quality of racing seems to have gone down since the CoT was used. It seems like every week there is one person who is able to completely dominate 75% of the race and the number of cautions is non-existent to bunch the field up back together. Double file restarts are a great idea, but we never get to see them when you have green flag runs of 100+ laps at a 200 lap race.

Casino
08-29-2010, 09:13 PM
I would be all for more short tracks. The perfect track is a 3/4 mile track shaped like Richmond and banked like Talladega. That would make it very fast and drivers beating and banging.

The tracks that were new made a mistake in making 1.5 mile tracks and should've been short tracks. (being Chicagoland and Kansas.) Who decided the dimensions of the tracks?

And calling Phoenix, Dover and Loudon short tracks is a myth.

Casino
08-29-2010, 11:17 PM
The quality of racing seems to have gone down since the CoT was used. It seems like every week there is one person who is able to completely dominate 75% of the race and the number of cautions is non-existent to bunch the field up back together. Double file restarts are a great idea, but we never get to see them when you have green flag runs of 100+ laps at a 200 lap race.

Then again, was it any better with the car prior to the C.O.T.?

MarkieMark48
08-30-2010, 10:21 AM
Yes they are going downhill and fast. There are several things that are hurting the sport I will just name a few.

1. Jimmie Johnson, I give props that he has won 4 strait titles but the same guy winning constantly makes it boring and predictable

2. Lack of excitment and commitment from the broadcasts. Tnt seems to care about Nascar and I like what they d but Espn and Fox seem to just throw it in where ever it fits. They own the rights to, to many sports.

3. Nationwide Series, it has become a joke. The series used to be about developing young drivers now half the guys in there are cup drivers. That will not showcase the young drivers and all it does is ensure the cup drivers get max tv time.

4. BS Cautions. It has become blatently obvious that when ever theres about 15 or 20 laps to go and there going to try a mysteyr caution to bunch the field up at the end. They also seem to do it when a Hendrick driver begins to struggel coinsidence?

5. Car of tommarow, yes its safe and all but the actual racing has evaperated.

6. To much safety? Yes there is a thing as to much safety, no i dont want to see guys getting killed but a little less safety adds to the excitment. After seeing Edwards crash last year and Salers crash the other day im convinced there is no way anyone can be killed in a crash.

7. Ruining good tracks, Bristol had two of the best races of the year. Every race was very exciting now they repaved it is garbage. The restrictor plate racing, Talladega this spring was one of the best races i seen there in a few years. But for what ever reason eveyr season they have to change the restirctor plate packages.

8. To many 1.5 tracks. It is pretty obvious that fans enjoy short tracks, restrictor plate, and even road course racing. We need less 1.5 tracks and more of those.

9. The chase, the first couple years it was around it was exciting and new now it is boring because the #48 has figured it out so well they cant lose.

10. Change the races in the chase. Instead of the same 10 races Johnson prepares for every season mix it up. Throw a road course in there if you have to. And change the 10 races around every year so this doesnt happen again.

1. There has always been that guy in Nascar that wins 6-10 races in a given season, Jimmie has been the first in a while to do it on a consistent basis. People that have complained about him, make it out like hes winning every single weekend, which isnt the case.

2. TNT has the worst coverage between the three networks. Id almost rather watch it in a different language with sub-scripts at the bottom of the screen than watch TNT.

3. If you own a business and you are gonna give Joe Gibbs millions of dollars to fund a team, would you want Brad Coleman driving a car with your companies name on it, or would you rather have Kyle Busch?

4. Agree with ******. If they dont do this races are won by 2+ seconds, people complain that the ending boring. If they do, they get remarks like this. Its a catch 22. You complain about the "racing" in post 5, which I am guessing you mean the lack of side-by-side racing.

5. They have ran the car for a year and a half. What major change in anything do you know of that works perfectly after a year and a half? IMO the spoiler is going to cut down on side-by-side racing because the end plates on the side of the wing give a car some side force when they are on the inside of another car. The spoiler does not. The spoiler does however make a large "hole" in the air and allow cars to draft up on each other. Each has its own benefits, and Nascar will make the appropriate changes.

6. Completely disagree

7. I dont know how to reply to this statement. They made Bristol to where you can pass someone without knocking them out the way. Old Bristol you had to run the bottom, and the only way to pass someone was to knock them out the way if you were faster than them, now you have multiple lanes to choose from.

8. To each his own. Yes there will be 11 races at 1.5 mile tracks next year, but I think the back that 5 of them are in the chase is a bit much. Should a road coarse be added? Eh I dont know, road coarses only make up 5% of the seasons schedule. I dont think that is enough to need a spot in the chase. And just for the record I love road coarse racing.

9. In the 6 years the chase has been in existence, no driver has had the championship locked up before homestead. In the 6 years prior to the chase with the "old" point system 5 of the 6 champions had the championship locked up before the last race. People are only saying is isnt working because the same guy has won it the past 4 years. The first 3 or 4 years people were not complaining about the chase not working

10. It would be impossible to do that because then you have to change the whole schedule around, and then tracks will then have to manage dates around other events they have at the track for other racing series, shows, ECT. Its not as easy as just saying "hey lets trade dates." Also there are only 4 tracks Jimmie hasnt won at, and its not like hes always sucked at them either (Chicago is one of them, and guess what? Its in the chase next year... hmmmm), so whatever tracks would be in the chase, the #48 team would still mainly focus on them and more than likely run well at them. 2 of those 4 are 1.5 mile tracks, and 1 is a 2 mile, and we dont need anymore of them in the chase, do we? lol

Driven
08-30-2010, 08:46 PM
Yes, the Chase is awful. And it's pathetic that we're so many years into the Chase, and NASCAR still has no idea how to make it effective. Something like the Chase HAD to be done. They needed to make some sort of playoff system. Now if only they could come up with a legit scoring system... and maybe if they didn't let 12 freakin' cars into it. There's what, maybe 23 decent teams in NASCAR. and you let over half of them in? I understand that NBA and NHL let over half their teams in, but that's a head-to-head situation in the playoffs.

I can't stand how incompetent the higher ups in NASCAR are. And just with the Chase. It's like they have no idea how to market anything. There's just too many damn conservatives (not in the political sense of the word) running NASCAR. Get some real businessmen in there to expand the sport domestically and internationally.

I feel that the racing has been pretty damn good this year, though. The COT has sucked, but they're making improvements.

redsox12
08-31-2010, 12:18 AM
IMO There are too many boring tracks like Dover, Michigan, New Hampshire, etc. Take them out and replace them with Nashville, Kentucky, bring back Rockingham.

MarkieMark48
08-31-2010, 12:43 AM
Yes, the Chase is awful. And it's pathetic that we're so many years into the Chase, and NASCAR still has no idea how to make it effective. Something like the Chase HAD to be done. They needed to make some sort of playoff system. Now if only they could come up with a legit scoring system... and maybe if they didn't let 12 freakin' cars into it. There's what, maybe 23 decent teams in NASCAR. and you let over half of them in? I understand that NBA and NHL let over half their teams in, but that's a head-to-head situation in the playoffs.

I can't stand how incompetent the higher ups in NASCAR are. And just with the Chase. It's like they have no idea how to market anything. There's just too many damn conservatives (not in the political sense of the word) running NASCAR. Get some real businessmen in there to expand the sport domestically and internationally.

I feel that the racing has been pretty damn good this year, though. The COT has sucked, but they're making improvements.

well they had let only 10 cars in, but Jr, Tony Stewart and Jeff Gordon all missed the chase by 1 or 2 spots so they decided to expand it to 12 cars because of it.

What in your opinion makes the chase ineffective?

redsox12
08-31-2010, 01:10 AM
Another thought. The expansion of the sport out of the south is a failure, NASCAR should have two races at all the southern tracks and lessen the amount of boring New England tracks. They need to keep to their fanbase. Maybe even have three races at Daytona.

OC Knights #11
08-31-2010, 12:52 PM
Too much outside political influence and too much concern for safety=boring Nascar which really died when Dale Sr pasted in 02.

bucktownanalyst
08-31-2010, 05:53 PM
1. Jimmie Johnson, I give props that he has won 4 strait titles but the same guy winning constantly makes it boring and predictable

This. :cool:

Driven
09-02-2010, 01:56 PM
well they had let only 10 cars in, but Jr, Tony Stewart and Jeff Gordon all missed the chase by 1 or 2 spots so they decided to expand it to 12 cars because of it.

What in your opinion makes the chase ineffective?

Well your first sentence, for starters.

Did you REALLY just try to defend the Chase with that statement?

MarkieMark48
09-02-2010, 10:00 PM
Well your first sentence, for starters.

Did you REALLY just try to defend the Chase with that statement?

I know that is one of your reasons why you think its awful, you stated that in your first post. Im not defending it, just stating the reason of the change, Does it really bother me that 12 cars make the chase instead of 10? Not really.

other than that, what are your other reasons you think it is awful

1-800-STFU
09-14-2010, 05:11 PM
Whats nascar?

postman47
09-27-2010, 08:23 PM
NASCAR has been on the downhill, however, they reached such a high peak that it was bound to drop. Hopefully they can figure out a way to stop the decline.

MarkieMark48
09-28-2010, 12:52 AM
NASCAR has been on the downhill, however, they reached such a high peak that it was bound to drop. Hopefully they can figure out a way to stop the decline.

Bingo

Driven
09-28-2010, 06:45 PM
NASCAR has been on the downhill, however, they reached such a high peak that it was bound to drop. Hopefully they can figure out a way to stop the decline.
It was bound to level off, but NASCAR wasn't ridiculously high or anything. Now it's less popular than professional wrestling. They need to find a way to expand out of the south, because that's really where the only fans are. They have loads of potential, but they need to market their product better and they have to expand their customer base.

MarkieMark48
09-28-2010, 10:24 PM
It was bound to level off, but NASCAR wasn't ridiculously high or anything. Now it's less popular than professional wrestling. They need to find a way to expand out of the south, because that's really where the only fans are. They have loads of potential, but they need to market their product better and they have to expand their customer base.

And how would you do that? Possibly drop a race from a track that has had two for the past 50 years, like maybe Atlanta and Darlington, and give a that date to a track towards the central part of the country that has been deserving of a cup date for a long time, like Kentucky, and maybe drop one of the dates at 1 of the more boring tracks like Auto Club, and give a track like Kansas two dates.

Stuff like that?

Also in order to market their product, dont you think they would want the most popular drivers in the chase like Tony Stewart, Jeff Gordon and Dale Jr?

Cooper
10-09-2010, 09:08 AM
Several things have accounted for this, imo. First....NASCAR decided it was going to control what the drivers could and could not say to the cameras. Punishing a driver for off-color language in victory lane is stupid.

Second....eliminate post race inspections on everything except spoiler angle. If they dont catch it during pre-race inspections, then thats on NASCAR.

Third....the chase needs to go to championship points...that are only to determine the seasons champion...not positions 2-43. Some of the sponsorship problems are due to the fact that over the most exciting part of the season, only 12 cars really count. Positions 13 and on down are locked out of a podium finish, and sponsors are less likely to invest in these teams. who's to say that the driver in the 14th or 15th spot cant finish in the top 10? Is it such a silly notion that the 13th place car...only missing the chase by 15 points....could possibly end up in 7th or 8th place? Why should the driver who entered the chase in 2nd place end up in 5th or 6th, just because the 11th place car had 8 decent finishes?

No cup drivers in the top 20 in points should be allowed to compete for the Nationwide championship. Sure, having Kyle Busch driving adds interest, but it makes it so that an up and coming driver cant race....diluting the quality of cup drivers at some point, not to mention killing the competition in that series.

Lets go back to letting Fords be Fords, and Chevys be Chevys! Every car is the same now...just the stickers are different. If one car has an advantage over another, then maybe the car-maker needs to improve their car? It used to be Fords were good here, and Chevys were good there...now, its out the window. Now its Roush, Gibbs, or Hendrick.

Cooper
10-11-2010, 10:25 AM
They generate interest and sponsorship dollars for the series. Its all about making the dollar with disregard for the Justin Allgaiers and Steve Wallaces. It isn't fair to the sponsors of Kyle Busch and Carl Edwards to say you can race but not accumulate points. I'd like to see them limit Cup guys to 18-20 races at most but then the non-companion races don't have the draw they're looking for and the tracks lose money and sponsorship then the bigger tracks want to replace these little tracks and suddenly they are like the aforementioned tracks of Rockingham and North Wilkesboro.


The reason the sponsors are bailing is a result of ticket prices going up. This is a common issue across the world...not just in sport, or racing. The seller believes they have "x" number of customers....so they improve their profits by making those customers pay more. The reality is...the sponsors would much rather have 80,000 in the stands who paid 25 dollars to get in...as opposed to 25,000 who paid 80 dollars. Fans aren't staying away from the events because of the product on the track...they're staying away because its too expensive.

Mike515089
10-20-2010, 05:30 PM
No cup drivers in the top 20 in points should be allowed to compete for the Nationwide championship. Sure, having Kyle Busch driving adds interest, but it makes it so that an up and coming driver cant race....diluting the quality of cup drivers at some point, not to mention killing the competition in that series.

I dont know if the series could survive financialy without them occasionaly in the series. I think the best way to go is if the driver has a top 35 guaranted starting spot in cup they should not have a guaranted starting spot despite where there car sits in the Nationwide series. This way guys like Busch, Edward, Lagano, and Kesowloski can still race but they have to qualify on time. Plus by making them have to qualify it would give teams just outside the top thirty in the Nationwide series a guaranted starting spot like Morgan Shepard or Eric McClure.

handfore
10-27-2010, 11:25 PM
Very interesting thread. I've been searching for you guys. Learning from the experts is something different and I'm here to learn from your experiences.

hidalgo
11-21-2010, 06:10 PM
Jimmy Johnson ruined the sport. i never been a huge fan of nascar(very casual fan at best). nobody wants to watch that unlikable, boring, lame *** perfect little goldenboy win 5 straight titles like it's the easiest thing he's ever done. it's stupid how perfect he is, pointless watching. 2011 champion again %100 guarantee. the baby has to get his way. why can't him and kobe go away forever, nobody likes them

MarkieMark48
11-21-2010, 10:08 PM
5 straight!

MarkieMark48
11-21-2010, 10:26 PM
yea, Denny worked his way back up and at 1 point was ahead of Jimmie by like 5 spots because the pit crew made a mistake and Jimmie drove back through the field. But after Denny wrecked himself his car never really drove right for the rest of the race