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View Full Version : Why do people act like the Orlando magic are great? they got to the finals by DEFAULT



Kingdre619
07-29-2010, 11:33 AM
Before you read anything, let me state some things:

- Dwight Howard by no means has a great post game, i would say his post game is very very raw, he could use a new trainer to help him, caus obviouly he isnt listening to ewing. alot of his points come from alley-oops, put back's and the ocasional hookshot

- dwight howard is this team's only rebounder, their second leading rebounder was matt barnes with 5.5

- the magic have no true low post scorer

- their starting powerforward is a smallforward: rashard lewis

- their starting pg averages 12 and 5.5 asts -_-

- their second leading scorer averages 16 pts, and their leading scorer averages 18

this team's entire gameplan is to shoot three's all game, they have no real offense outside of three point shooting, and dwight howard's alley-oops and put backs.

they brought in VC, who is their only true scoring option, he one of the few players on that team that can generate offense by himself, when he shows up -_-


lets look at 2008-09 their "championship run": Via Wikipedia:clap:

- April 30: The Magic advanced to the second round of the NBA playoffs after defeating the Philadelphia 76ers in 6 games.

- May 17: In a Game 7 on the road, the Magic advanced to their first Eastern Conference Finals appearance since 1996 after defeating the defending world champion Boston Celtics.

- May 30: The Magic defeated the Cleveland Cavaliers 4-2 to advance to the 2009 NBA Finals and made their first appearance since 1995.

- June 9: The Magic earned their first NBA Finals game victory in franchise history. They beat the Los Angeles Lakers in Game 3 at Amway Arena by a score of 108-104. The Magic shot an NBA Finals single-game record 75% in the first half, and a record 62.5% for the entire game.[8] The Magic had lost their first six NBA Finals games (four in 1995 and two in 2009).

They beat the cavs -_-, no major feat, that team had no offense outside of lebron, and mo-williams, when he showed up

they beat the sixers...0_o WHO?

and they beat the celtics, without KG, and it took them 7 GAMES! 7

my claim is that the magic arent true title contenders, i dont see it, they got to the finals by default, because kg wasnt playing, the celtics would have undoubtedly beat the magic in 6 games, and have gone onto the finals again, to probably become back to back champs. but the past is the past, we cannot re-write history to make kg uninjured. but by all means, the magic went to the finals by default

its like when jordan retired, and hakeem got back to back rings. jordan wasn't there, it doesnt hold as much weight as it would have if jordan was active those two years, the first year he didnt play, and the second year i believe he got beat in the conference finals. but again, we cannot rewrite the past

their whole gameplan is to shoot threes and let dwight howard do everything for the team rebounding and defensively.

this team cannot win a championship, no way, they are not a contender, no question.

09-10:Playoffs:

Lost NBA Eastern Conference Finals (4-2) versus Boston Celtics
Won NBA Eastern Conference Semifinals (4-0) versus Atlanta Hawks
Won NBA Eastern Conference First Round (4-0) versus Charlotte Bobcats

they beat a team who had never been to the playoffs before.

they beat a team that had no offense outside of jj AND jC

THEN THEY LOST in 6 games to the celtics, as they would have in 08 had Kg not been injured.

so what we are looking at is the eastern conference's version of the utah jazz

the team everyone calls a contender, but they really aren't

but lets look at 10-11, i donot see their current roster getting to the conference finals, not a chance, they would likely take a second round exit, this team needs alot of help before they can be considered: Title contenders

lets say they some how get chris paul mid-way through the season in a trade like: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2v25l5g

Jameer nelson, michael petrius, vince carter, and ryan anderson and some first round picks,for chris paul, emecka okeafor, james posey the trade would work perfectly cap wise.

then the magic would sign t-mac

imagine this lineup: chris paul, t-mac, lewis, okeafor, howard. bench: duhon, reddick, posey, bass and gortat

the hornets would have cap relief from emecka's contract, and petrius, nelson, and carter's deals would expire in 2 years

the magic would have a superstar pg, a scoring sg, a 3pt shooting sf, rebounding and defensive pf, and howard

and the bench ould have: deffensive specialist of posey, bass, gortat, reddick, and duhon

xbrackattackx
07-29-2010, 11:34 AM
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 115


Ahh I see.

HakeemTheDream
07-29-2010, 11:45 AM
Against teams that can't defend Dwight with single-coverage, Magic is definitely a great team. Otherwise, they're no where near as good as they usually look. As long as Perkins and Bynum are around, they won't be winning any championships. And now that they got the powerhouse Heat to worry about, who can probably beat the Magic without properly defending Dwight - Miami will simply put Dwight into foul trouble with Lebron and Wade attacking the rim 24/7 which should be easy to do with Pietrus and VC defending them.

Chronz
07-29-2010, 11:46 AM
I hate when people say this about a team, maybe Im just not old fashioned but can someone tell me what constitutes a REAL Offense?

Kingdre619
07-29-2010, 11:52 AM
I hate when people say this about a team, maybe Im just not old fashioned but can someone tell me what constitutes a REAL Offense?

to me: a player that can isolate on the perimeter, a post player that can get you 20. another scorer that can slash to the basket, and of course, shooters

not just hoisting up 3pt shots all day, for ex, the 07 suns i believe, they year they faced the spurs in the conference semis, they couldnt survive in the halfcourt, caus all they did was ran, and hoisted up 3pt shots, and pick and roll's

Kingdre619
07-29-2010, 11:54 AM
Against teams that can't defend Dwight with single-coverage, Magic is definitely a great team. Otherwise, they're no where near as good as they usually look. As long as Perkins and Bynum are around, they won't be winning any championships. And now that they got the powerhouse Heat to worry about, who can probably beat the Magic without properly defending Dwight - Miami will simply put Dwight into foul trouble with Lebron and Wade attacking the rim 24/7 which should be easy to do with Pietrus and VC defending them.


but if the magic do what i proposed, they would easily be one of the top 3 teams in the east, easily, probably #2 behind boston

Avenged
07-29-2010, 11:58 AM
but if the magic do what i proposed, they would easily be one of the top 3 teams in the east, easily, probably #2 behind boston

They already are easily a top 3 team out East.

Raph12
07-29-2010, 11:59 AM
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 115


Ahh I see.

LMFAO!


I hate when people say this about a team, maybe Im just not old fashioned but can someone tell me what constitutes a REAL Offense?

Agreed.

Kingdre619
07-29-2010, 12:00 PM
They already are easily a top 3 team out East.
well, not in my book, how do they beat the bulls?

who is holding boozer? who is holding rose? noah can defend howard

who is guarding wade? lebron? bosh?

who is guarding pierce?

Increidble
07-29-2010, 12:08 PM
With howard they are great

HouRealCoach
07-29-2010, 12:09 PM
You live by the 3, you die by the 3... They kill teams with their matchups tho

Kingdre619
07-29-2010, 12:11 PM
noob....dont embarass urself by posting silly threads...i noticed most of ur threads were deleted....so stfu and know what the fcuk u r posting.....
lmao, his post was pointless,lol

Jeff559
07-29-2010, 12:12 PM
i dont like the way this poll is set up. option 2 and 3 are basically the same thing.

Sandman
07-29-2010, 12:12 PM
Well if you win by default, doesn't that mean that mean they had the default best team that year?

Sandman
07-29-2010, 12:13 PM
i dont like the way this poll is set up. option 2 and 3 are basically the same thing.

hahahahaha i just read the poll

Kingdre619
07-29-2010, 12:14 PM
hahahahaha i just read the poll

sry

ALL_i-Do_is-Win
07-29-2010, 12:19 PM
i think they be better starting bass

starting line up

nelson
carter
lewis
bass
howard

as much as lewis burn pf in offence he gets burned more on defense when he plays the 4

you can even switch carter and make him a sixth man because they need scoring of the bench

they can start Micheal p

otherwise the starting lineup with lewis @ 3 leaves them with 4 potential allstars and Howard being best center in league which is one of the best starting lineups

i though they would have been better with courtney lee b.c he is young and imporving and good defender

Wcuracer29
07-29-2010, 12:20 PM
noob....dont embarass urself by posting silly threads...i noticed most of ur threads were deleted....so stfu and know what the fcuk u r posting.....

this post is the most insightful on this entire thread- well done

to the OP-STFU ******** kid with alot of butthurt because the Magic defeated your team. NO team EVER gets to the NBA finals "by default." So you pretty much make yourself look like an idiot with that statement before anyone even opens the thread.

blastmasta26
07-29-2010, 12:25 PM
Well if you win by default, doesn't that mean that mean they had the default best team that year?
Great point.

Orlando has a great team, they already are contenders. But they're missing one piece, either a great facilitator or a star wing. Vince Carter could've filled that role very well, but he was underwhelming. Turkoglu filled that role, and that team could've maybe beaten LA in the Finals with a healthy Nelson.

Ray_R
07-29-2010, 12:26 PM
So im still confused how did they get through defaul. Did the other team quit/didn't make it at a certain time?

Raph12
07-29-2010, 12:27 PM
Let's put it this way, since Stan's been there, they've been a legit contender each year. When you win 52, 59 and 59 games in the last three seasons, getting to the 2nd round, Finals and CFinals, you're automatically considered a legit contender...

Maybe you should rephrase your question to; what do the Magic need to put them over the hump? That way, you wouldn't sound like a jealous schoolgirl.

Wcuracer29
07-29-2010, 12:32 PM
Let's put it this way, since Stan's been there, they've been a legit contender each year. 1. When you win 52, 59 and 59 games in the last three seasons, getting to the 2nd round, Finals and CFinals, you're automatically considered a legit contender...

2. Maybe you should rephrase your question to; what do the Magic need to put them over the hump? That way, you wouldn't sound like a jealous schoolgirl.

1. Great point, as usual
2. hasn't this thread already been created? the OP is trying to make himself look stupid- let's let him do that. Since the join date for this guy is July 2010, it's probably the alter-ego of another Magic hater. I'll give you one guess Raph12 as to who you think i'm referring to.

Sadds The Gr8
07-29-2010, 12:34 PM
they're contenders but they won't win anytime soon with Boston, LA, and now Miami in their way.

John Walls Era
07-29-2010, 12:35 PM
THey are right in there with the CEltics, Bulls and Heat.

5ass
07-29-2010, 12:39 PM
They beat the cavs -_-, no major feat, that team had no offense outside of lebron, and mo-williams, when he showed up

I guess beating a 66 win team (the most in 08-09 season) means nothing, im sorry man but ur argument is stupid.. the magic are definitely title contenders and no1 reaches the nba finals by DEFAULT.

netsgiantsyanks
07-29-2010, 12:42 PM
and by default, this thread maker is a ****ing ******

Wcuracer29
07-29-2010, 12:44 PM
I guess beating a 66 win team (the most in 08-09 season) means nothing, im sorry man but ur argument is stupid.. the magic are definitely title contenders and no1 reaches the nba finals by DEFAULT.

i like how King Dre said it's no major feat to beat the Cavs because the Cavs had no offense- yet his favorite team, Chicago (according to his PSD profile), couldn't get by the Cavs this past year.:facepalm:

mamba24
07-29-2010, 12:48 PM
Before you read anything, let me state some things:

- Dwight Howard by no means has a great post game, i would say his post game is very very raw, he could use a new trainer to help him, caus obviouly he isnt listening to ewing. alot of his points come from alley-oops, put back's and the ocasional hookshot

- dwight howard is this team's only rebounder, their second leading rebounder was matt barnes with 5.5

- the magic have no true low post scorer

- their starting powerforward is a smallforward: rashard lewis

- their starting pg averages 12 and 5.5 asts -_-

- their second leading scorer averages 16 pts, and their leading scorer averages 18

this team's entire gameplan is to shoot three's all game, they have no real offense outside of three point shooting, and dwight howard's alley-oops and put backs.

they brought in VC, who is their only true scoring option, he one of the few players on that team that can generate offense by himself, when he shows up -_-


lets look at 2008-09 their "championship run": Via Wikipedia:clap:

- April 30: The Magic advanced to the second round of the NBA playoffs after defeating the Philadelphia 76ers in 6 games.

- May 17: In a Game 7 on the road, the Magic advanced to their first Eastern Conference Finals appearance since 1996 after defeating the defending world champion Boston Celtics.

- May 30: The Magic defeated the Cleveland Cavaliers 4-2 to advance to the 2009 NBA Finals and made their first appearance since 1995.

- June 9: The Magic earned their first NBA Finals game victory in franchise history. They beat the Los Angeles Lakers in Game 3 at Amway Arena by a score of 108-104. The Magic shot an NBA Finals single-game record 75% in the first half, and a record 62.5% for the entire game.[8] The Magic had lost their first six NBA Finals games (four in 1995 and two in 2009).

They beat the cavs -_-, no major feat, that team had no offense outside of lebron, and mo-williams, when he showed up

they beat the sixers...0_o WHO?

and they beat the celtics, without KG, and it took them 7 GAMES! 7

my claim is that the magic arent true title contenders, i dont see it, they got to the finals by default, because kg wasnt playing, the celtics would have undoubtedly beat the magic in 6 games, and have gone onto the finals again, to probably become back to back champs. but the past is the past, we cannot re-write history to make kg uninjured. but by all means, the magic went to the finals by default

its like when jordan retired, and hakeem got back to back rings. jordan wasn't there, it doesnt hold as much weight as it would have if jordan was active those two years, the first year he didnt play, and the second year i believe he got beat in the conference finals. but again, we cannot rewrite the past

their whole gameplan is to shoot threes and let dwight howard do everything for the team rebounding and defensively.

this team cannot win a championship, no way, they are not a contender, no question.

09-10:Playoffs:

Lost NBA Eastern Conference Finals (4-2) versus Boston Celtics
Won NBA Eastern Conference Semifinals (4-0) versus Atlanta Hawks
Won NBA Eastern Conference First Round (4-0) versus Charlotte Bobcats

they beat a team who had never been to the playoffs before.

they beat a team that had no offense outside of jj AND jC

THEN THEY LOST in 6 games to the celtics, as they would have in 08 had Kg not been injured.

so what we are looking at is the eastern conference's version of the utah jazz

the team everyone calls a contender, but they really aren't

but lets look at 10-11, i donot see their current roster getting to the conference finals, not a chance, they would likely take a second round exit, this team needs alot of help before they can be considered: Title contenders

lets say they some how get chris paul mid-way through the season in a trade like: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2v25l5g

Jameer nelson, michael petrius, vince carter, and ryan anderson and some first round picks,for chris paul, emecka okeafor, james posey the trade would work perfectly cap wise.

then the magic would sign t-mac

imagine this lineup: chris paul, t-mac, lewis, okeafor, howard. bench: duhon, reddick, posey, bass and gortat

the hornets would have cap relief from emecka's contract, and petrius, nelson, and carter's deals would expire in 2 years

the magic would have a superstar pg, a scoring sg, a 3pt shooting sf, rebounding and defensive pf, and howard

and the bench ould have: deffensive specialist of posey, bass, gortat, reddick, and duhon

hmmm... so i guess you could say that if the lakers had a healthy bynum in 08 they woulda beaten the celtics in 7... so the celtics won in 08 by default.

dude i dont want to hear any of that crap... orlando is a solid team. any team that gets hot can win in the playoffs... they are a contender. they have the tools to win. its just a matter of putting together a great playoff run... if you ask me the whole idea of a team winning by default is crap.

A Nut Da 1
07-29-2010, 12:55 PM
Before you read anything, let me state some things:

- Dwight Howard by no means has a great post game, i would say his post game is very very raw, he could use a new trainer to help him, caus obviouly he isnt listening to ewing. alot of his points come from alley-oops, put back's and the ocasional hookshot

- dwight howard is this team's only rebounder, their second leading rebounder was matt barnes with 5.5

- the magic have no true low post scorer

- their starting powerforward is a smallforward: rashard lewis

- their starting pg averages 12 and 5.5 asts -_-

- their second leading scorer averages 16 pts, and their leading scorer averages 18

this team's entire gameplan is to shoot three's all game, they have no real offense outside of three point shooting, and dwight howard's alley-oops and put backs.

they brought in VC, who is their only true scoring option, he one of the few players on that team that can generate offense by himself, when he shows up -_-


lets look at 2008-09 their "championship run": Via Wikipedia:clap:

- April 30: The Magic advanced to the second round of the NBA playoffs after defeating the Philadelphia 76ers in 6 games.

- May 17: In a Game 7 on the road, the Magic advanced to their first Eastern Conference Finals appearance since 1996 after defeating the defending world champion Boston Celtics.

- May 30: The Magic defeated the Cleveland Cavaliers 4-2 to advance to the 2009 NBA Finals and made their first appearance since 1995.

- June 9: The Magic earned their first NBA Finals game victory in franchise history. They beat the Los Angeles Lakers in Game 3 at Amway Arena by a score of 108-104. The Magic shot an NBA Finals single-game record 75% in the first half, and a record 62.5% for the entire game.[8] The Magic had lost their first six NBA Finals games (four in 1995 and two in 2009).

They beat the cavs -_-, no major feat, that team had no offense outside of lebron, and mo-williams, when he showed up

they beat the sixers...0_o WHO?

and they beat the celtics, without KG, and it took them 7 GAMES! 7

my claim is that the magic arent true title contenders, i dont see it, they got to the finals by default, because kg wasnt playing, the celtics would have undoubtedly beat the magic in 6 games, and have gone onto the finals again, to probably become back to back champs. but the past is the past, we cannot re-write history to make kg uninjured. but by all means, the magic went to the finals by default

its like when jordan retired, and hakeem got back to back rings. jordan wasn't there, it doesnt hold as much weight as it would have if jordan was active those two years, the first year he didnt play, and the second year i believe he got beat in the conference finals. but again, we cannot rewrite the past

their whole gameplan is to shoot threes and let dwight howard do everything for the team rebounding and defensively.

this team cannot win a championship, no way, they are not a contender, no question.

09-10:Playoffs:

Lost NBA Eastern Conference Finals (4-2) versus Boston Celtics
Won NBA Eastern Conference Semifinals (4-0) versus Atlanta Hawks
Won NBA Eastern Conference First Round (4-0) versus Charlotte Bobcats

they beat a team who had never been to the playoffs before.

they beat a team that had no offense outside of jj AND jC

THEN THEY LOST in 6 games to the celtics, as they would have in 08 had Kg not been injured.

so what we are looking at is the eastern conference's version of the utah jazz

the team everyone calls a contender, but they really aren't

but lets look at 10-11, i donot see their current roster getting to the conference finals, not a chance, they would likely take a second round exit, this team needs alot of help before they can be considered: Title contenders

lets say they some how get chris paul mid-way through the season in a trade like: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2v25l5g

Jameer nelson, michael petrius, vince carter, and ryan anderson and some first round picks,for chris paul, emecka okeafor, james posey the trade would work perfectly cap wise.

then the magic would sign t-mac

imagine this lineup: chris paul, t-mac, lewis, okeafor, howard. bench: duhon, reddick, posey, bass and gortat

the hornets would have cap relief from emecka's contract, and petrius, nelson, and carter's deals would expire in 2 years

the magic would have a superstar pg, a scoring sg, a 3pt shooting sf, rebounding and defensive pf, and howard

and the bench ould have: deffensive specialist of posey, bass, gortat, reddick, and duhon

Thats a pretty damn good team you created there

A Nut Da 1
07-29-2010, 12:58 PM
but if the magic do what i proposed, they would easily be one of the top 3 teams in the east, easily, probably #2 behind boston

with that team you put up i wouldn't even be mad if you put them # 1....they would easly have the best defensive team in the league

A Nut Da 1
07-29-2010, 01:02 PM
i think they be better starting bass

starting line up

nelson
carter
lewis
bass
howard

as much as lewis burn pf in offence he gets burned more on defense when he plays the 4

you can even switch carter and make him a sixth man because they need scoring of the bench

they can start Micheal p

otherwise the starting lineup with lewis @ 3 leaves them with 4 potential allstars and Howard being best center in league which is one of the best starting lineups

i though they would have been better with courtney lee b.c he is young and imporving and good defender

Howard is NOT the best Center in the League he is the most Athletic but he isn't the best

Avenged
07-29-2010, 01:04 PM
Let's put it this way, since Stan's been there, they've been a legit contender each year. When you win 52, 59 and 59 games in the last three seasons, getting to the 2nd round, Finals and CFinals, you're automatically considered a legit contender...

Maybe you should rephrase your question to; what do the Magic need to put them over the hump? That way, you wouldn't sound like a jealous schoolgirl.

The thing is, he doesn't feel they're ready to be put over the hump. At least that's what I got out of it since he feels the Magic aren't top 3 in the East.

A Nut Da 1
07-29-2010, 01:05 PM
Let's put it this way, since Stan's been there, they've been a legit contender each year. When you win 52, 59 and 59 games in the last three seasons, getting to the 2nd round, Finals and CFinals, you're automatically considered a legit contender...

Maybe you should rephrase your question to; what do the Magic need to put them over the hump? That way, you wouldn't sound like a jealous schoolgirl.

ha ha ha so with your statement about wins making you a legit contender then you truely believe that cleveland was a legit contender also then right?

Avenged
07-29-2010, 01:06 PM
well, not in my book, how do they beat the bulls?

who is holding boozer? who is holding rose? noah can defend howard

who is guarding wade? lebron? bosh?

who is guarding pierce?

You're clearly underrating the Magic's defense.

A Nut Da 1
07-29-2010, 01:08 PM
hmmm... so i guess you could say that if the lakers had a healthy bynum in 08 they woulda beaten the celtics in 7... so the celtics won in 08 by default.

dude i dont want to hear any of that crap... orlando is a solid team. any team that gets hot can win in the playoffs... they are a contender. they have the tools to win. its just a matter of putting together a great playoff run... if you ask me the whole idea of a team winning by default is crap.

Orlando as constructed doesn't have a team that can win it all....they need a legit 4 and a scoring 2 guard to get them their now if they had those two parts then we could talk

Avenged
07-29-2010, 01:08 PM
ha ha ha so with your statement about wins making you a legit contender then you truely believe that cleveland was a legit contender also then right?

You don't think they were?

Look at their record and the teams they've beat. They were blowing out opponents on most nights. Unfortunately for them, like everyone else in the East, the Boston Celtics started to peak at the right time.

ewing
07-29-2010, 01:10 PM
to me: a player that can isolate on the perimeter, a post player that can get you 20. another scorer that can slash to the basket, and of course, shooters

not just hoisting up 3pt shots all day, for ex, the 07 suns i believe, they year they faced the spurs in the conference semis, they couldnt survive in the halfcourt, caus all they did was ran, and hoisted up 3pt shots, and pick and roll's


what are you talking about? First of all I'm not a Suns fan but the 2007 Suns offensive was more then capable- in fact they were fantastic. Also, that playoff series was one of the better series in recent history. By getting eliminated the Suns did not "survive" but saying they weren't playing REAL ball when they lost to historicly great team, suffered suspensions to key players during the series, and never lost a game by more then 10 points is insane. Both those teams played REAL basketball on both sides of the ball and were very good at it. :facepalm:

Wcuracer29
07-29-2010, 01:10 PM
You don't think they were?

Look at their record and the teams they've beat. They were blowing out opponents on most nights. Unfortunately for them, like everyone else in the East, the Boston Celtics started to peak at the right time.

alot of truth spoken here

JasonJohnHorn
07-29-2010, 01:11 PM
You can say it was by default it you want, the bottom line is they had guys hurt (Nelson), the Celtics had guys hurt (Garnett), and part of building a team is aquiring guys that can endure the regular season and playoffs. Boston has looked past age and instead looked for talent, but it hurt them that season, just as it hurt LA when they picked up Karl Malone, because as well conditioned as he was, he was still due for an injury playing that long and he got one that restricted his play in the finals. The Magic dont have the most talented player at each position (save center), but they do have a core of young guys and a great coach. They beat the Celtics fair and square, and then they beat a healthy Cavs team that had the best record in the league. You cant say that is "default", if anything, Nelson being out should have hurt them, but they stepped up and beat the best record in the league. Maybe the lost to the Celitcs this season because of the loss of Turk hurt their chemistry, or maybe Rondo is just that much better this year, or maybe it was Garnett returning to the line up, or the addition of Wallace, or the development of Perkins post-defence, but regardless, when the playoffs roll around, you cant let injuries diilute a win or excuse a loss.

I'm not a Magic fan, and wish Howard would actually get an offensive repetoire that didnt involved shoulder spearing other players (a foul that doesnt get called often enough), but that team earned every win it got that season and can still stand toe-to-toe with just about any team in the league.

k24springs
07-29-2010, 01:12 PM
I wouldnt say their not true title contenders. I mean they are an elite team the last three seasons they are one of the best road teams not only in the regular season but the in the post season as well. They need a go to scorer somebody who can get buckets in the 4th quarter or a PG who can find D12 when he does get open. Im a Magic fan and too many times I have seen D12 sealed his man off and guys like Nelson, Pietrus, and VC just look him off to shoot jumpers now that's another 4 or 5 points that Dwight can add too his average. Most teams in this league have difficulties guarding D12 and the Magic anyway. Still teams that had success against the Magic are teams who play physical that attack the rim, teams that can run them off the 3pt line and teams that have big frontlines.(Boston, LA. Lakers, Miami.)

I believe the Magic will win about the same amount of games as last season and in the post season we'll see what happens. Our style on offense is the reason why we have been successful but I think this upcoming season we have to learn that we cant always play the same way. When the 3pt shots aren't falling we have to attack the basket and draw some fouls (because when they are falling were almost impossible to guard) or step in take a two point shot. I think Boston exposed a lot of our flaws and its something that we must address. I would really love to see Lewis at small forward again because every night he plays power forward he's always at a disadvantage and he's a guy that we can go to in the post. I mean he was 20pt scorer in Seattle for like 6 or 7 years but, since he came here he's been strictly a 3pt marksman. I just think that if we can get a PG or a big time scorer then we will be great because we have the talent to get a quality talent. I like the trade that Kingdre619 proposed I would do that trade in a heartbeat even though I love Jameer Nelson but if you can get a guy like Chris Paul you have to do it.

Anyway and you say who can guard Wade, James, and Bosh. Im not going to lie and say that we can guard those guys individually because we cant our team defense has to be great remember we are a top 5 defensive team in this league and no one talks about that part. Tell me this can Boston or any other team guard James and Wade now that they are on the same squad because I know KG, Pau, STAT, Dirk, will give Bosh a tough time anyway. And as far as who's going to hold Boozer and Rose in Chicago trust me we are not worried about Bulls right now. I love Derrick Rose and I agree we dont have anyone on our roster who can stay in front of him but, we can definitely neutralize Boozer so what if he gets 20 and 10 he still has to go out and chase Lewis on the perimeter if the Magic can feature him more in the offense. Newsflash D12 always kills Noah every time they go head to head thats why he's always in foul trouble every time he plays D12. Noah is a great player wish he was on our team but, he has a hard time holding up against guys that are bigger than him(D12, A. Bynum, Yao, Shaq, and even Perkins to an extent.) Why are people hyping up the Bulls I mean the last two seasons they barely got in the playoffs. People now are saying they belong in the top 3 in the East so basically the pundits are saying they are better than Atlanta, Orlando, and even Milwaukee? C'mon with that BS I love the moves that the Bulls but when they beat one of the elite East teams in the playoffs then come talk to me that's why we play the games.

MagicBucsSox
07-29-2010, 01:14 PM
Howard is NOT the best Center in the League he is the most Athletic but he isn't the best

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaaha.........hahahahahaha haha

then who is?

A Nut Da 1
07-29-2010, 01:34 PM
You don't think they were?

Look at their record and the teams they've beat. They were blowing out opponents on most nights. Unfortunately for them, like everyone else in the East, the Boston Celtics started to peak at the right time.

I think cleveland was a pretender....they only had one star in their team and you can't win with one star and the star they had on their team wasn't a closer so that creates another problem....they didn't have a go to player in the post and they didn't have a stopper...they had a bunch of shooter but no one you could say that if LBJ hurt hurt they could carry the load for any amount of games short term or long term.....the celtics have had the best team in the East since they signed garnett and allen hands down they just haven't always had a healthy team

A Nut Da 1
07-29-2010, 01:38 PM
You don't think they were?

Look at their record and the teams they've beat. They were blowing out opponents on most nights. Unfortunately for them, like everyone else in the East, the Boston Celtics started to peak at the right time.

how many teams in all honesty that had the best record or even in the top two or three records in the league in the last 10 years have won the title? if you look at the teams that won they were always the ones that had the best team from top to bottom not really the teams with the best record

A Nut Da 1
07-29-2010, 01:43 PM
I wouldnt say their not true title contenders. I mean they are an elite team the last three seasons they are one of the best road teams not only in the regular season but the in the post season as well. They need a go to scorer somebody who can get buckets in the 4th quarter or a PG who can find D12 when he does get open. Im a Magic fan and too many times I have seen D12 sealed his man off and guys like Nelson, Pietrus, and VC just look him off to shoot jumpers now that's another 4 or 5 points that Dwight can add too his average. Most teams in this league have difficulties guarding D12 and the Magic anyway. Still teams that had success against the Magic are teams who play physical that attack the rim, teams that can run them off the 3pt line and teams that have big frontlines.(Boston, LA. Lakers, Miami.)

I believe the Magic will win about the same amount of games as last season and in the post season we'll see what happens. Our style on offense is the reason why we have been successful but I think this upcoming season we have to learn that we cant always play the same way. When the 3pt shots aren't falling we have to attack the basket and draw some fouls (because when they are falling were almost impossible to guard) or step in take a two point shot. I think Boston exposed a lot of our flaws and its something that we must address. I would really love to see Lewis at small forward again because every night he plays power forward he's always at a disadvantage and he's a guy that we can go to in the post. I mean he was 20pt scorer in Seattle for like 6 or 7 years but, since he came here he's been strictly a 3pt marksman. I just think that if we can get a PG or a big time scorer then we will be great because we have the talent to get a quality talent. I like the trade that Kingdre619 proposed I would do that trade in a heartbeat even though I love Jameer Nelson but if you can get a guy like Chris Paul you have to do it.

Anyway and you say who can guard Wade, James, and Bosh. Im not going to lie and say that we can guard those guys individually because we cant our team defense has to be great remember we are a top 5 defensive team in this league and no one talks about that part. Tell me this can Boston or any other team guard James and Wade now that they are on the same squad because I know KG, Pau, STAT, Dirk, will give Bosh a tough time anyway. And as far as who's going to hold Boozer and Rose in Chicago trust me we are not worried about Bulls right now. I love Derrick Rose and I agree we dont have anyone on our roster who can stay in front of him but, we can definitely neutralize Boozer so what if he gets 20 and 10 he still has to go out and chase Lewis on the perimeter if the Magic can feature him more in the offense. Newsflash D12 always kills Noah every time they go head to head thats why he's always in foul trouble every time he plays D12. Noah is a great player wish he was on our team but, he has a hard time holding up against guys that are bigger than him(D12, A. Bynum, Yao, Shaq, and even Perkins to an extent.) Why are people hyping up the Bulls I mean the last two seasons they barely got in the playoffs. People now are saying they belong in the top 3 in the East so basically the pundits are saying they are better than Atlanta, Orlando, and even Milwaukee? C'mon with that BS I love the moves that the Bulls but when they beat one of the elite East teams in the playoffs then come talk to me that's why we play the games.

ummmmm Howard does not Kill Noah 1st thing and # 2 Howard has his own issues with foul trouble

A Nut Da 1
07-29-2010, 01:45 PM
You can say it was by default it you want, the bottom line is they had guys hurt (Nelson), the Celtics had guys hurt (Garnett), and part of building a team is aquiring guys that can endure the regular season and playoffs. Boston has looked past age and instead looked for talent, but it hurt them that season, just as it hurt LA when they picked up Karl Malone, because as well conditioned as he was, he was still due for an injury playing that long and he got one that restricted his play in the finals. The Magic dont have the most talented player at each position (save center), but they do have a core of young guys and a great coach. They beat the Celtics fair and square, and then they beat a healthy Cavs team that had the best record in the league. You cant say that is "default", if anything, Nelson being out should have hurt them, but they stepped up and beat the best record in the league. Maybe the lost to the Celitcs this season because of the loss of Turk hurt their chemistry, or maybe Rondo is just that much better this year, or maybe it was Garnett returning to the line up, or the addition of Wallace, or the development of Perkins post-defence, but regardless, when the playoffs roll around, you cant let injuries diilute a win or excuse a loss.

I'm not a Magic fan, and wish Howard would actually get an offensive repetoire that didnt involved shoulder spearing other players (a foul that doesnt get called often enough), but that team earned every win it got that season and can still stand toe-to-toe with just about any team in the league.

well unless your shaq or eddy curry then they don't call the shoulder spearing enough

A Nut Da 1
07-29-2010, 01:46 PM
hahahahahahahahahahahahahaaha.........hahahahahaha haha

then who is?

oh did you really want me to name centers that have better all around game that Howard? how many did you want me to name?

Wcuracer29
07-29-2010, 01:48 PM
how many teams in all honesty that had the best record or even in the top two or three records in the league in the last 10 years have won the title? if you look at the teams that won they were always the ones that had the best team from top to bottom not really the teams with the best record

so beacuse they had the best record, and history may say best record doesn't always win- this makes them non-contenders? fail

Raph12
07-29-2010, 01:48 PM
The thing is, he doesn't feel they're ready to be put over the hump. At least that's what I got out of it since he feels the Magic aren't top 3 in the East.

Yes and for that I think he's an idiot.


Howard is NOT the best Center in the League he is the most Athletic but he isn't the best

Dwight's easily the best center in the league, easily. You can make an arguement for Yao when healthy, but seeming as how a healthy Yao is such a rare sighting, I'll award the crown to Dwight. Dwight has more impact on the game than any other center, easily.


ha ha ha so with your statement about wins making you a legit contender then you truely believe that cleveland was a legit contender also then right?

Cleveland was eliminated in the ECFs two seasons ago, would've been 2nd round had they faced Boston and were eliminated in the 2nd round this year. Lebron's talents carried them throughout the season, but his inability to play off-ball and lack of mental toughness cost them in the playoffs.

Orlando has had more playoffs success that any team not named LA or Boston in the last 3 years, that makes them legit contenders.

MagicBucsSox
07-29-2010, 01:51 PM
oh did you really want me to name centers that have better all around game that Howard? how many did you want me to name?

name one? name one center tht avg more points,blks,rebs then howard? lol go head. cause your stuck on offensive ability and moves. yet NO CENTER AVG MORE POINTS THAN HIM! he does what centers were created to do but name me one better.

if you can name 1 your insane, 2 your crazy, 3+ you deserve to be charged daily for your psd account

A Nut Da 1
07-29-2010, 01:56 PM
so beacuse they had the best record, and history may say best record doesn't always win- this makes them non-contenders? fail

NO their team makes them NON-contenders....and yes they FAIL to be contenders

slapnutz69
07-29-2010, 01:59 PM
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 115


Ahh I see.

so u think cause u have more posts than someone on a website that u know more about sports u ******

A Nut Da 1
07-29-2010, 01:59 PM
Yes and for that I think he's an idiot.



Dwight's easily the best center in the league, easily. You can make an arguement for Yao when healthy, but seeming as how a healthy Yao is such a rare sighting, I'll award the crown to Dwight. Dwight has more impact on the game than any other center, easily.



Cleveland was eliminated in the ECFs two seasons ago, would've been 2nd round had they faced Boston and were eliminated in the 2nd round this year. Lebron's talents carried them throughout the season, but his inability to play off-ball and lack of mental toughness cost them in the playoffs.

Orlando has had more playoffs success that any team not named LA or Boston in the last 3 years, that makes them legit contenders.

ummmmmm lets see Bogut is a better all around center than howard.....ummm kaman is an all around better center than howard.....bynum is an all around better center than howard.....J Oneil even at his age is a better all around center than howard horford is an all around better center than howard ........

Avenged
07-29-2010, 02:00 PM
how many teams in all honesty that had the best record or even in the top two or three records in the league in the last 10 years have won the title? if you look at the teams that won they were always the ones that had the best team from top to bottom not really the teams with the best record

00-01 Los Angeles Lakers had the 2nd best record 56 26 .683, and went on to win the title.

01-02 the Lakers had the 2nd best record again 58 24 .707 and went on to win the title.

02-03 the Spurs had the best record 60 22 .732 and went on to win the title.

03-04 the Pistons won the title but were among 6 place in standings winning % wise, so you do have a point for 1 year so far.

04-05 the Spurs had the 2nd best record 59 23 .720 and went on to win the title.

05-06 the Heat were 5th place 52 30 .634, so you have a point there (but to be fair, the only team who had the better record than the Heat that year in the East were the Pistons)

06-07 the Spurs won the title with the 3rd best record 58 24 .707.

07-08 the Celtics won the title with the best record 66 16 .805

08-09 the Lakers won the title with the 2nd best record 65 17 .793, and were 1 win away to tie the Cavs who had the best record that year.

09-10 the Lakers won the title with the 3rd best record 57 25 .695.

8 teams out 10 have gone to win the championship in the last 10 years that have had the top 3 standings.

So pretty much, just because the Cavs didn't win it, it doesn't mean they weren't contenders. They were clearly contenders and were favored to win it all last season with their impressive regular season performance.

Wcuracer29
07-29-2010, 02:00 PM
NO their team makes them NON-contenders....and yes they FAIL to be contenders

you can't win 60+ games in back to back years without having a good team.

A Nut Da 1
07-29-2010, 02:01 PM
Yes and for that I think he's an idiot.



Dwight's easily the best center in the league, easily. You can make an arguement for Yao when healthy, but seeming as how a healthy Yao is such a rare sighting, I'll award the crown to Dwight. Dwight has more impact on the game than any other center, easily.



Cleveland was eliminated in the ECFs two seasons ago, would've been 2nd round had they faced Boston and were eliminated in the 2nd round this year. Lebron's talents carried them throughout the season, but his inability to play off-ball and lack of mental toughness cost them in the playoffs.

Orlando has had more playoffs success that any team not named LA or Boston in the last 3 years, that makes them legit contenders.

we will see how much of a contender orlando is this year...unless they change that team they will not get back to the finals period

Frezhnitz
07-29-2010, 02:04 PM
Still they beat Cleveland with Lebron, The beat the Celtics w/o KG but they still had a pretty good core of players. So i say they are a pretty good team.

A Nut Da 1
07-29-2010, 02:05 PM
name one? name one center tht avg more points,blks,rebs then howard? lol go head. cause your stuck on offensive ability and moves. yet NO CENTER AVG MORE POINTS THAN HIM! he does what centers were created to do but name me one better.

if you can name 1 your insane, 2 your crazy, 3+ you deserve to be charged daily for your psd account

i named 4 that are ALL AROUND better centers based off of offensive skill set and defensive and i didn't even include Yao

A Nut Da 1
07-29-2010, 02:06 PM
so u think cause u have more posts than someone on a website that u know more about sports u ******

ha ha ha that was funny

Wcuracer29
07-29-2010, 02:07 PM
i named 4 that are ALL AROUND better centers based off of offensive skill set and defensive and i didn't even include Yao

you mentioned names- yet as it stands, it is 100% your opinion of who's better. You need facts/stats to prove these four have better #'s than Dwight.

A Nut Da 1
07-29-2010, 02:08 PM
00-01 Los Angeles Lakers had the 2nd best record 56 26 .683, and went on to win the title.

01-02 the Lakers had the 2nd best record again 58 24 .707 and went on to win the title.

02-03 the Spurs had the best record 60 22 .732 and went on to win the title.

03-04 the Pistons won the title but were among 6 place in standings winning % wise, so you do have a point for 1 year so far.

04-05 the Spurs had the 2nd best record 59 23 .720 and went on to win the title.

05-06 the Heat were 5th place 52 30 .634, so you have a point there (but to be fair, the only team who had the better record than the Heat that year in the East were the Pistons)

06-07 the Spurs won the title with the 3rd best record 58 24 .707.

07-08 the Celtics won the title with the best record 66 16 .805

08-09 the Lakers won the title with the 2nd best record 65 17 .793, and were 1 win away to tie the Cavs who had the best record that year.

09-10 the Lakers won the title with the 3rd best record 57 25 .695.

8 teams out 10 have gone to win the championship in the last 10 years that have had the top 3 standings.

So pretty much, just because the Cavs didn't win it, it doesn't mean they weren't contenders. They were clearly contenders and were favored to win it all last season with their impressive regular season performance.

if you read my entire statement what i said was every team that won the title that had one of the top 3 records also had the BEST ALL AROUND TEAM

A Nut Da 1
07-29-2010, 02:10 PM
00-01 Los Angeles Lakers had the 2nd best record 56 26 .683, and went on to win the title.

01-02 the Lakers had the 2nd best record again 58 24 .707 and went on to win the title.

02-03 the Spurs had the best record 60 22 .732 and went on to win the title.

03-04 the Pistons won the title but were among 6 place in standings winning % wise, so you do have a point for 1 year so far.

04-05 the Spurs had the 2nd best record 59 23 .720 and went on to win the title.

05-06 the Heat were 5th place 52 30 .634, so you have a point there (but to be fair, the only team who had the better record than the Heat that year in the East were the Pistons)

06-07 the Spurs won the title with the 3rd best record 58 24 .707.

07-08 the Celtics won the title with the best record 66 16 .805

08-09 the Lakers won the title with the 2nd best record 65 17 .793, and were 1 win away to tie the Cavs who had the best record that year.

09-10 the Lakers won the title with the 3rd best record 57 25 .695.

8 teams out 10 have gone to win the championship in the last 10 years that have had the top 3 standings.

So pretty much, just because the Cavs didn't win it, it doesn't mean they weren't contenders. They were clearly contenders and were favored to win it all last season with their impressive regular season performance.

thanks for proving my point only 2 of the teams had the best record but they ALSO had the BEST TEAMS from TOP to BOTTOM

A Nut Da 1
07-29-2010, 02:11 PM
you can't win 60+ games in back to back years without having a good team.

didn't say that they didn't have a good team i said they didn't have a TITLE team

PHX2daDEATH
07-29-2010, 02:13 PM
I like that Trade proposal.. I just think the Hornets would send Nelson somewhere else because they want to bring along Colleson... I think losing Matt Barnes hurts Orlando and i think its the steal of the off-season for the Lakers.. Barnes does the little things.. he passes well.. shoots well.. plays hard nosed defense and adds a swagger to every team he's been on, the Suns could of used him last year thats for sure..

I think the key to Orlando being better is playing Gortat with Howard more

Wcuracer29
07-29-2010, 02:14 PM
didn't say that they didn't have a good team i said they didn't have a TITLE team

any team that leads the NBA in win% twice in a row is a contender- doesn't always equal a championship, but nonetheless they are contenders.

MagicBucsSox
07-29-2010, 02:14 PM
i named 4 that are ALL AROUND better centers based off of offensive skill set and defensive and i didn't even include Yao

lol you named none, and yao never lead the leagues in blks, or rebs,or fg% so what are you talkin about? ok Jermaine o'neal has better offense then Dwight yet dwight leads all centers in scoring, thats how great he is
you just want attention get a life

A Nut Da 1
07-29-2010, 02:16 PM
you mentioned names- yet as it stands, it is 100% your opinion of who's better. You need facts/stats to prove these four have better #'s than Dwight.

okay sir what do you base your stats off of.....to you go by how many touch's a player gets do you base it off of how my points the player accounts for in general how many wins the player generates for their team.....the stats you refer to are all dependent on the situation they are in...Amare played center and is an all around better player than howard also...if you say that i was just giving my opinion then that must also hold true to you..

MagicBucsSox
07-29-2010, 02:16 PM
ummmmmm lets see Bogut is a better all around center than howard.....ummm kaman is an all around better center than howard.....bynum is an all around better center than howard.....J Oneil even at his age is a better all around center than howard horford is an all around better center than howard ........

hahahaha Bogut,Bynum,Kaman,Horford,O'Neal?

LMAOoooooooooooooooooooo

Raph12
07-29-2010, 02:17 PM
we will see how much of a contender orlando is this year...unless they change that team they will not get back to the finals period

Even if they don't change the team one bit, I guarantee they'll make the ECFs and challenge Miami/Boston. I still think they need to make changes to win it all, but to say they aren't legit contenders is just plain stupid.


ummmmmm lets see Bogut is a better all around center than howard.....ummm kaman is an all around better center than howard.....bynum is an all around better center than howard.....J Oneil even at his age is a better all around center than howard horford is an all around better center than howard ........

And with this you lost all credibility, I'm done disputing with one of such low basketball knowledge.

A Nut Da 1
07-29-2010, 02:19 PM
I like that Trade proposal.. I just think the Hornets would send Nelson somewhere else because they want to bring along Colleson... I think losing Matt Barnes hurts Orlando and i think its the steal of the off-season for the Lakers.. Barnes does the little things.. he passes well.. shoots well.. plays hard nosed defense and adds a swagger to every team he's been on, the Suns could of used him last year thats for sure..

I think the key to Orlando being better is playing Gortat with Howard more

i would agree with that also i play them together on 2k10

Avenged
07-29-2010, 02:19 PM
if you read my entire statement what i said was every team that won the title that had one of the top 3 records also had the BEST ALL AROUND TEAM


how many teams in all honesty that had the best record or even in the top two or three records in the league in the last 10 years have won the title? if you look at the teams that won they were always the ones that had the best team from top to bottom not really the teams with the best record

You first asked 1 question, saying who has had the top 3 record that have won the title in the past 10 years, implying that not many simply because the Cavs haven't won and history isn't on their side (which is it, actually).

Then you said the teams that have, were the best teams all around, which is really contradicting your question. First you imply that not many teams have won the title that were in the top 3, but then you go on to say the teams with the better all around teams win it all, which is pretty much the same thing.

The Cavaliers were a solid all around team as their regular season shows it. The thing is, there isn't a vague variety of teams out there with "decent" talent. A lot of the elite teams are extremely stacked and any team had a chance to beat another.

A Nut Da 1
07-29-2010, 02:20 PM
any team that leads the NBA in win% twice in a row is a contender- doesn't always equal a championship, but nonetheless they are contenders.

thats not true

Avenged
07-29-2010, 02:21 PM
thanks for proving my point only 2 of the teams had the best record but they ALSO had the BEST TEAMS from TOP to BOTTOM

That wasn't your point. You said the top 3.

A Nut Da 1
07-29-2010, 02:21 PM
any team that leads the NBA in win% twice in a row is a contender- doesn't always equal a championship, but nonetheless they are contenders.

so your telling me you really believed cleveland could win the championship with that team?

A Nut Da 1
07-29-2010, 02:29 PM
lol you named none, and yao never lead the leagues in blks, or rebs,or fg% so what are you talkin about? ok Jermaine o'neal has better offense then Dwight yet dwight leads all centers in scoring, thats how great he is
you just want attention get a life

ha ha ha your funny.....?????? i thought this was a thread were you can give your thoughts....for you to get sensitive and make it a personal thing is a mistake so maybe you might wanna think about that before you sign on next time....okay! now.....if you would like to see stats so you understand better then i will go ahead and help you out...you don't really seem like your that aware of all the skill sets that round out a player so let me help you out with that also

SANDBURG23
07-29-2010, 02:31 PM
Before you read anything, let me state some things:

- Dwight Howard by no means has a great post game, i would say his post game is very very raw, he could use a new trainer to help him, caus obviouly he isnt listening to ewing. alot of his points come from alley-oops, put back's and the ocasional hookshot

- dwight howard is this team's only rebounder, their second leading rebounder was matt barnes with 5.5

- the magic have no true low post scorer

- their starting powerforward is a smallforward: rashard lewis

- their starting pg averages 12 and 5.5 asts -_-

- their second leading scorer averages 16 pts, and their leading scorer averages 18

this team's entire gameplan is to shoot three's all game, they have no real offense outside of three point shooting, and dwight howard's alley-oops and put backs.

they brought in VC, who is their only true scoring option, he one of the few players on that team that can generate offense by himself, when he shows up -_-


lets look at 2008-09 their "championship run": Via Wikipedia:clap:

- April 30: The Magic advanced to the second round of the NBA playoffs after defeating the Philadelphia 76ers in 6 games.

- May 17: In a Game 7 on the road, the Magic advanced to their first Eastern Conference Finals appearance since 1996 after defeating the defending world champion Boston Celtics.

- May 30: The Magic defeated the Cleveland Cavaliers 4-2 to advance to the 2009 NBA Finals and made their first appearance since 1995.

- June 9: The Magic earned their first NBA Finals game victory in franchise history. They beat the Los Angeles Lakers in Game 3 at Amway Arena by a score of 108-104. The Magic shot an NBA Finals single-game record 75% in the first half, and a record 62.5% for the entire game.[8] The Magic had lost their first six NBA Finals games (four in 1995 and two in 2009).

They beat the cavs -_-, no major feat, that team had no offense outside of lebron, and mo-williams, when he showed up

they beat the sixers...0_o WHO?

and they beat the celtics, without KG, and it took them 7 GAMES! 7

my claim is that the magic arent true title contenders, i dont see it, they got to the finals by default, because kg wasnt playing, the celtics would have undoubtedly beat the magic in 6 games, and have gone onto the finals again, to probably become back to back champs. but the past is the past, we cannot re-write history to make kg uninjured. but by all means, the magic went to the finals by default

its like when jordan retired, and hakeem got back to back rings. jordan wasn't there, it doesnt hold as much weight as it would have if jordan was active those two years, the first year he didnt play, and the second year i believe he got beat in the conference finals. but again, we cannot rewrite the past

their whole gameplan is to shoot threes and let dwight howard do everything for the team rebounding and defensively.

this team cannot win a championship, no way, they are not a contender, no question.

09-10:Playoffs:

Lost NBA Eastern Conference Finals (4-2) versus Boston Celtics
Won NBA Eastern Conference Semifinals (4-0) versus Atlanta Hawks
Won NBA Eastern Conference First Round (4-0) versus Charlotte Bobcats

they beat a team who had never been to the playoffs before.

they beat a team that had no offense outside of jj AND jC

THEN THEY LOST in 6 games to the celtics, as they would have in 08 had Kg not been injured.

so what we are looking at is the eastern conference's version of the utah jazz

the team everyone calls a contender, but they really aren't

but lets look at 10-11, i donot see their current roster getting to the conference finals, not a chance, they would likely take a second round exit, this team needs alot of help before they can be considered: Title contenders

lets say they some how get chris paul mid-way through the season in a trade like: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2v25l5g

Jameer nelson, michael petrius, vince carter, and ryan anderson and some first round picks,for chris paul, emecka okeafor, james posey the trade would work perfectly cap wise.

then the magic would sign t-mac

imagine this lineup: chris paul, t-mac, lewis, okeafor, howard. bench: duhon, reddick, posey, bass and gortat

the hornets would have cap relief from emecka's contract, and petrius, nelson, and carter's deals would expire in 2 years

the magic would have a superstar pg, a scoring sg, a 3pt shooting sf, rebounding and defensive pf, and howard

and the bench ould have: deffensive specialist of posey, bass, gortat, reddick, and duhon

You don't get to the finals by accident, period.

A Nut Da 1
07-29-2010, 02:34 PM
Even if they don't change the team one bit, I guarantee they'll make the ECFs and challenge Miami/Boston. I still think they need to make changes to win it all, but to say they aren't legit contenders is just plain stupid.



And with this you lost all credibility, I'm done disputing with one of such low basketball knowledge.

right because you said so? :no: everyone has a right to their own opinion....and you don't know what i know about anything really...sooooooooo when you start getting paid for being a mind reader then let me know so i can use your services

srfr4life
07-29-2010, 02:34 PM
A Nut Da 1... dude you are smoking some seriously delusional ***** about Howard.

Kingdre 619... it looks pretty unanimous that your looking like a douche for posting such BS.

A Nut Da 1
07-29-2010, 02:36 PM
You first asked 1 question, saying who has had the top 3 record that have won the title in the past 10 years, implying that not many simply because the Cavs haven't won and history isn't on their side (which is it, actually).

Then you said the teams that have, were the best teams all around, which is really contradicting your question. First you imply that not many teams have won the title that were in the top 3, but then you go on to say the teams with the better all around teams win it all, which is pretty much the same thing.

The Cavaliers were a solid all around team as their regular season shows it. The thing is, there isn't a vague variety of teams out there with "decent" talent. A lot of the elite teams are extremely stacked and any team had a chance to beat another.

its all in the same post...all one statement...you have got to be kidding me to try and address only a part of someones statement

A Nut Da 1
07-29-2010, 02:39 PM
You first asked 1 question, saying who has had the top 3 record that have won the title in the past 10 years, implying that not many simply because the Cavs haven't won and history isn't on their side (which is it, actually).

Then you said the teams that have, were the best teams all around, which is really contradicting your question. First you imply that not many teams have won the title that were in the top 3, but then you go on to say the teams with the better all around teams win it all, which is pretty much the same thing.

The Cavaliers were a solid all around team as their regular season shows it. The thing is, there isn't a vague variety of teams out there with "decent" talent. A lot of the elite teams are extremely stacked and any team had a chance to beat another.

the answer to the first part of my statement was 2 only two teams had the best record and won the title in the last 10 years then the second part was out of the two that one was there any team that had a better all around team from top to bottom?....you can pick parts of anyones statement and try to combat it but the point it to go off the person's entire statement not one part and the be wrong about the part you went at

A Nut Da 1
07-29-2010, 02:41 PM
A Nut Da 1... dude you are smoking some seriously delusional ***** about Howard.

Kingdre 619... it looks pretty unanimous that your looking like a douche for posting such BS.

oh i'm sorry i didn't know this was an orlando magic post only and that i'm not allow to make comments

srfr4life
07-29-2010, 02:43 PM
oh i'm sorry i didn't know this was an orlando magic post only and that i'm not allow to make comments

I never said it was an Orlando Magic post and I never said you couldn't post in this thread.

So I'm not really sure why you would say that.

Avenged
07-29-2010, 02:45 PM
its all in the same post...all one statement...you have got to be kidding me to try and address only a part of someones statement

I addressed both your statements which are contradicting, if you refuse to acknowledge what you yourself are saying, then okay, by all means go for it.


the answer to the first part of my statement was 2 only two teams had the best record and won the title in the last 10 years then the second part was out of the two that one was there any team that had a better all around team from top to bottom?....you can pick parts of anyones statement and try to combat it but the point it to go off the person's entire statement not one part and the be wrong about the part you went at

Correct, but your question was implying that not many teams in the top 3 have won the title, I don't see why you're going around that question now.

And most of the time, the better all around team wins the title, yes, and usually the better overall talented teams end up in the top 3. Where exactly are you going with this because all I see are contradictions.

A Nut Da 1
07-29-2010, 02:52 PM
I never said it was an Orlando Magic post and I never said you couldn't post in this thread.

So I'm not really sure why you would say that.

my comment is directed at one who gets upset because someone else has a different opinion them and makes it personal issue and attacts the other person...so let me just say this is i offended anyone in here or hurt your feelings to where it mad you feel un manly or un womanly i would like apologize

A Nut Da 1
07-29-2010, 02:55 PM
I addressed both your statements which are contradicting, if you refuse to acknowledge what you yourself are saying, then okay, by all means go for it.



Correct, but your question was implying that not many teams in the top 3 have won the title, I don't see why you're going around that question now.

And most of the time, the better all around team wins the title, yes, and usually the better overall talented teams end up in the top 3. Where exactly are you going with this because all I see are contradictions.

there is no contradictions what i said is basically you can have the best record but if you DON"T have the BEST ALL AROUND TEAM your NOT going to WIN...ie the cavs or suns, dallas

RadiantShot
07-29-2010, 02:55 PM
You don't get to the Finals, and ECF, (To only lose to a team who took LA to 7 games, without K-Perk, on their home-court) on accident. Period. This has to be the stupidest thread I've seen in a long time. ;)

jezzer45
07-29-2010, 02:56 PM
Orlando beat everyteam last year. They were the only one to steam roll the first two rounds. The record(last 3 years) reg. season and playoffs are third to boston and la. Boston did beat them really badly but I put a lot of it on SVG shoulders for folding under pressure. Howard does have trouble with other athletic centers such as perk, and bynum. But overall he usually wins the in the individual match ups. But the biggest reason why they are great is that they managed to do all of that with only one legit star. Boston has the big 3, La has kobe,pau, and the magic just have dwight. So for all the talk how bad dwight and the magic are they have done it with less then the last 3 champs. Lets let this year playout and see how "overrated" this team is. I will let their play do the talking.

Wcuracer29
07-29-2010, 02:58 PM
so your telling me you really believed cleveland could win the championship with that team?

anyone can get hot in the playoffs (see Boston-'10) and clique together. Could they have won with that team? possibly- but the point is they were contenders and had a shot at it.

Anon
07-29-2010, 03:15 PM
:bang::bang::bang:

KJ21.the.truth
07-29-2010, 03:19 PM
well, not in my book, how do they beat the bulls?

who is holding boozer? who is holding rose? noah can defend howard

who is guarding wade? lebron? bosh?

who is guarding pierce?

..... um NO

ALL_i-Do_is-Win
07-29-2010, 03:21 PM
But the biggest reason why they are great is that they managed to do all of that with only one legit star.

agreed :clap:

Nothing to take away from magic's great roster
or carter or lewis or nelson

none of them can be first option on a team anymore

carter was but not now

they are all good 3rd option maybe 2nd..

d howard is only legit star

and to the person who is saying he is not the best center.... one word dumb..
he may not have the most skill but he makes the most impact and demands double teams
only next close thing is healthy yao who when healthy is better offensively and better all around center

they are legit contender and another star like cp3 away from being fav

J4KOP99
07-29-2010, 03:34 PM
I don't know why people are overreacting so much here.

The magic, although having a solid roster, the best defensive center and some nice depth, can't win a title with the current team they have.


Out of the Lakers, Heat, Celtics maybe even the Mavs... how do the Magic beat any of these teams?

Do some of you have that short of a memory that you are forgetting how the Celtics absolutely dismantled the Magic this past postseason? It was pathetic. The magic have the same ****ing team as last year, how on earth are they going to win a title?

Don't give me this excuse that Jameer Nelsonw as injured. Look at any championship teams, their players are constantly playing injured. This past season, Bynum and Bryant were severely injured, both played. If one of you're star players is on the court, he has to be playing well, it can't be used as an excuse. Maybe some need to come to the realization that Jameer Nelson is not a star...

Dwight Howard showed he can still easily be guarded 1 v 1. Now think about how much depth teams like the Celtics, lakers and Mavs have at the 4-5 position. The Lakers and Celtics both have 3 guys that can guard Howard 1 v 1.

I do not understand how Magic fans feel confident in their current team. If I was an Orlando fan I would be praying for 2 things:

1)Chris Paul

and

2) A lot of injured Lakers, Celtics and Heat players.

Kingdre619
07-29-2010, 03:36 PM
this post is the most insightful on this entire thread- well done

to the OP-STFU ******** kid with alot of butthurt because the Magic defeated your team. NO team EVER gets to the NBA finals "by default." So you pretty much make yourself look like an idiot with that statement before anyone even opens the thread.

u sound like an a-hole because i am not a celtics fan, never was, never will be. so EPIC FAIL

Kingdre619
07-29-2010, 03:37 PM
Let's put it this way, since Stan's been there, they've been a legit contender each year. When you win 52, 59 and 59 games in the last three seasons, getting to the 2nd round, Finals and CFinals, you're automatically considered a legit contender...

Maybe you should rephrase your question to; what do the Magic need to put them over the hump? That way, you wouldn't sound like a jealous schoolgirl.

jealous of what? im not a celtics fan! u sound stupid

how do u automatically assume im a celtics fan

Kingdre619
07-29-2010, 03:38 PM
1. Great point, as usual
2. hasn't this thread already been created? the OP is trying to make himself look stupid- let's let him do that. Since the join date for this guy is July 2010, it's probably the alter-ego of another Magic hater. I'll give you one guess Raph12 as to who you think i'm referring to.

how am i a magic hater? im just making a statement, and i just got here, idk who ralph12 is

Kingdre619
07-29-2010, 03:40 PM
i like how King Dre said it's no major feat to beat the Cavs because the Cavs had no offense- yet his favorite team, Chicago (according to his PSD profile), couldn't get by the Cavs this past year.:facepalm:

so what?

we didnt even have a team last year! we just had 3 players noah, deng, nd rose. the cavs in 08 had no offense besides lebron, in 09, they had a powerhouse offensive team on paper, jamison, shaq, mo-williams 3pt shooting, anthony parker 3pt shooting

Kingdre619
07-29-2010, 03:41 PM
Thats a pretty damn good team you created there

yep. i would love for them to make a deal and get a team like that, the east would be crazy

Kingdre619
07-29-2010, 03:42 PM
The thing is, he doesn't feel they're ready to be put over the hump. At least that's what I got out of it since he feels the Magic aren't top 3 in the East.

thx, atleast someone here understands logic

Catfish1314
07-29-2010, 03:43 PM
Given all the points you just listed, I guess that makes two consecutive 50+ win seasons and a run to the Finals even more impressive then. And remember they made that Finals run with a back-up point guard bringing up the ball.

Kingdre619
07-29-2010, 03:43 PM
You're clearly underrating the Magic's defense.

:clap:

so tell me right now, who on their team is a legitimate good defender

tell me

Kingdre619
07-29-2010, 03:45 PM
Howard is NOT the best Center in the League he is the most Athletic but he isn't the best

then who is?

DJ MBENGA?

Kingdre619
07-29-2010, 03:46 PM
ummmmmm lets see Bogut is a better all around center than howard.....ummm kaman is an all around better center than howard.....bynum is an all around better center than howard.....J Oneil even at his age is a better all around center than howard horford is an all around better center than howard ........

:facepalm:

just go away, please

ALL_i-Do_is-Win
07-29-2010, 03:46 PM
:clap:

so tell me right now, who on their team is a legitimate good defender

tell me

MickaŽl Pietrus

barnes was....

howard is one of the best defenders @ C...

gortat is good 2

Wcuracer29
07-29-2010, 03:47 PM
u sound like an a-hole because i am not a celtics fan, never was, never will be. so EPIC FAIL

please tell me where i ever said you were a celtics fan? i mentioned in a different post that you were a Bulls fan- COMPLETE EPIC FAIL ON YOUR PART

Kevj77
07-29-2010, 03:47 PM
They were two games from a championship that year. Cavs were the favorite to win the east. Even without KG the Celtics still had the heart of a champion. They pushed the Lakers a lot more then people think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRBhle2IX4Y

If that shot doesn't go in it's tied 2-2. Instead the Lakers went up 3-1. One shot changed the series, that's why Lakers fans love Fish he is clutch.

Kingdre619
07-29-2010, 03:48 PM
A Nut Da 1... dude you are smoking some seriously delusional ***** about Howard.

Kingdre 619... it looks pretty unanimous that your looking like a douche for posting such BS.

ur just madd im talking about ur team or something. im trying to say that the team needs help, and are not, and never were an actual title contender in the NBA. thats all. and its the truth

MagicHero3
07-29-2010, 03:50 PM
id like to thank the originator of this thread. Thank you for the 7 pages (so far) of attention youve given the Magic, a team you clearly dont like.

and nobody is "acting" like the Magic are good. Teams who have consecutive 59 win seasons and made it fairly deep into the playoffs consecutive years arent putting on an "act".

you are just clearly mad bc the Magic probably beat some team you like.

Kingdre619
07-29-2010, 03:51 PM
MickaŽl Pietrus

barnes was....

howard is one of the best defenders @ C...

gortat is good 2

petrius, he is an iight defender, but id give him to u, and gortat no-doubt

but outside of that, who is going to guard the leagues best players?

no-one

MagicHero3
07-29-2010, 03:53 PM
also, A Nut Da 1 has no idea what hes talking about and he looks like a fool with his pants on the ground

Wcuracer29
07-29-2010, 03:53 PM
1. how am i a magic hater? im just making a statement, and i just got here, 2. idk who ralph12 is

1. your post simply makes it seem like you are a hater because you are bringing something up from two seasons ago- this argument has been made countless times by other people who have failed. You failed and seemed like a hater when you said "the Magic made it to the finals by DEFAULT." <--there's where you are a hater. As i've stated before, NO TEAM, makes it to the finals "by default" /discussion

2. my statment in the post you quoted was directed to Raph12, in reference to someone else, not you- so no worries.

Overall- yes, you made a statement and you can have whatever opinion you want. But your argument is one that others have stated before and is simply beating a dead horse- the Magic won with the team they had/have. They've lost with the team they had/have. They were/are better than the teams they beat and the teams that beat them were/are better than the Magic. Just live with it and root your team on next year to beat the Magic- i'm not hating on the Lakers or Celtics for beating Orlando the past two seasons- they earned it. Nobody else should hate on Orlando for beating their team. The Magic have the players they feel are right for them to succeed- let it be...just let it be.

Wcuracer29
07-29-2010, 03:55 PM
:clap:

so tell me right now, who on their team is a legitimate GREAT defender

tell me

first, i fixed your quote for you.
Second, Dwight Howard, two time defensive player of the year.

Avenged
07-29-2010, 03:57 PM
:clap:

so tell me right now, who on their team is a legitimate good defender

tell me

:shrug: Dwight.

Wcuracer29
07-29-2010, 03:57 PM
id like to thank the originator of this thread. Thank you for the 7 pages (so far) of attention youve given the Magic, a team you clearly dont like.

and nobody is "acting" like the Magic are good. Teams who have consecutive 59 win seasons and made it fairly deep into the playoffs consecutive years arent putting on an "act".

you are just clearly mad bc the Magic probably beat some team you like.

:clap: nicely done here

Wcuracer29
07-29-2010, 03:59 PM
petrius, he is an iight defender, but id give him to u, and gortat no-doubt

but outside of that, who is going to guard the leagues best players?

no-one

you asked who on the magic was a good defender, he named several as have other people, myself included. You agreed they have some good defenders- basically by challenging someone to name good defenders and then agreeing- you failed again. please do yourself a favor and go hang yourself.

Wcuracer29
07-29-2010, 04:00 PM
:shrug: Dwight.

ya i was thinking the same thing- don't know how you lead the league defensively and have people say you're not a great defender.:eyebrow:

Kingdre619
07-29-2010, 04:00 PM
look guysm tryign to say is this:

The magic are not and never were title contenders in the nba. no doubt

atm, the best 3 teams in the east are:

1.Celtics

2. Heat( even though we havent seen how they would play together, undoubtedly they are a title contender, maybe not this season, but in 011 for sure)

3. Chicago bulls

after those "Big three"

its in this order:

4. magic

5. bucks

after the 5th spot, every team after that isnt relevant to me, at all, period

the magic never were championship material.

they went to the finals in 08 after beating a crap cavileers team, and a celtics team without one of their best players. it took them 7 games to win that series. u insert garnet in that series, the celtics would undoubtedly win in 6

but forget if KG had played in that series in 08.

who cares, the magic lost to the lakers in 5 games i believe

the magic are no-doubt a good team in the east, but not one of the best 3 teams.

if they make a deal such as they would acquire: paul, posey, okeafor, and signing t-mac jr for petrius, carter, nelson, ryan anderson, and draft picks. they would have fixed all their problems, they would have a superstar pg, a scoring 2g, a defensive sf, and a rebounding body who can play some D in okeafor

outside of making a deal, the magic are a good team, but not championship material, they never were material for it.

A Center who cannot score for himself in the post

a pg who cannnot pass

a 2g that doesnt show up when the team needs him

and no defiensive perimeter player( besides petrius i guess)

this team is a 50 win regular season team, and a second round exit waiting to happen

Kingdre619
07-29-2010, 04:02 PM
id like to thank the originator of this thread. Thank you for the 7 pages (so far) of attention youve given the Magic, a team you clearly dont like.

and nobody is "acting" like the Magic are good. Teams who have consecutive 59 win seasons and made it fairly deep into the playoffs consecutive years arent putting on an "act".

you are just clearly mad bc the Magic probably beat some team you like.

where have u read that ive said i donot like the magic?

personally i think they are an alright team, but are incapable of winning a championship, and are not contenders

i would love more than anything for them to acquire chris paul and others to make this team a championship team, it would be great for the nba

tmacsc2
07-29-2010, 04:02 PM
well, not in my book, how do they beat the bulls?

who is holding boozer? who is holding rose? noah can defend howard

who is guarding wade? lebron? bosh?

who is guarding pierce?

:facepalm:

Kingdre619
07-29-2010, 04:04 PM
first, i fixed your quote for you.
Second, Dwight Howard, two time defensive player of the year.

:clap:

obviously he was excluded from this conversation smart guy, everyone knows he is the best defensive center in the league. that was a stupid point

Wcuracer29
07-29-2010, 04:05 PM
look guysm tryign to say is this:

The magic are not and never were title contenders in the nba. no doubt

atm, the best 3 teams in the east are:

1.Celtics

2. Heat( even though we havent seen how they would play together, undoubtedly they are a title contender, maybe not this season, but in 011 for sure)

3. Chicago bulls

after those "Big three"

its in this order:

4. magic

5. bucks



nice bait job...homer

Wcuracer29
07-29-2010, 04:07 PM
:clap:

obviously he was excluded from this conversation smart guy, everyone knows he is the best defensive center in the league. that was a stupid point

hey smart guy- never were there any exclusions so OBVIOUSLY, you're an idiot.

you asked "who on the magic is a good defender"- not "who, besides Howard, on the magic is a good defender"

once again, epic fail for you.:clap:

Kingdre619
07-29-2010, 04:08 PM
:facepalm:

first of all, this is going to add more fuel to the fire u guys started:

WHAT IS THERE TO DEFEND?

all the guy does is grab rebounds, and dunk them back in the basket, and catch alley-oops

what is there to defend?

u act like he is shaq or something, someone that actually knows what to do with the ball.PAUSE

dwight howard is a tremendous player, but he has no post game

u put noah on him, a guy who has a body, and length, who can rebound and block shots, and howard is not a problem

u put shaq on him, no problem, yao ming, no problem, bynum, no problem

MagicHero3
07-29-2010, 04:09 PM
lololololololol this guys ridiculous. I honestly read the first 2 lines of that post and started laughing, disregarding the rest due to your opinionated un-supported statements.

I have a feeling your lack of basketball IQ will cause other forum-ers to do the same.

lmao he put the Magic in between the "Bulls" and the "Bucks".

Ill admit the Magic arent the best bc they havent won a championship yet.
but i wont admit that any of your input on this forum has any substance or value. Its 100% opinion, with bias sprinkled all over it.

Kingdre619
07-29-2010, 04:10 PM
hey smart guy- never were there any exclusions so OBVIOUSLY, you're an idiot.

you asked "who on the magic is a good defender"- not "who, besides Howard, on the magic is a good defender"

once again, epic fail for you.:clap:

wth would i mention howard

from the beginning of this thread i said who is going to guard boozer?

who is guarding lbj, bosh, and wade?

who is guarding pierce

then i asked who on the team is a legitimate defender

CONTEXT CLUES ANYONE???:confused:

MagicHero3
07-29-2010, 04:13 PM
first of all, this is going to add more fuel to the fire u guys started:

WHAT IS THERE TO DEFEND?

all the guy does is grab rebounds, and dunk them back in the basket, and catch alley-oops

what is there to defend?

u act like he is shaq or something, someone that actually knows what to do with the ball.PAUSE

dwight howard is a tremendous player, but he has no post game

u put noah on him, a guy who has a body, and length, who can rebound and block shots, and howard is not a problem

u put shaq on him, no problem, yao ming, no problem, bynum, no problem


Yes, Noah has a body. a small, ugly, lanky skinny body compared to Dwight. Dwight rapes Noah.
Yes, Yao Ming and Shaq (2 or 3 yrs ago) and Bynum can guard Dwight well. Perkins too. But thats about it. Those are the only guys with enough size to keep up with him. Too bad they are all too old or injured. They are getting worse while Dwight can only get better.

Kingdre619
07-29-2010, 04:13 PM
lololololololol this guys ridiculous. I honestly read the first 2 lines of that post and started laughing, disregarding the rest due to your opinionated un-supported statements.

I have a feeling your lack of basketball IQ will cause other forum-ers to do the same.

lmao he put the Magic in between the "Bulls" and the "Bucks".

Ill admit the Magic arent the best bc they havent won a championship yet.
but i wont admit that any of your input on this forum has any substance or value. Its 100% opinion, with bias sprinkled all over it.

Howard>Noah
Boozer>Lewis
Deng ties with petrius
carter>brewer
Rose>nelson

rose and boozer's pic and roll, boozers jumper, derrick rose is to fast, strong and athletic for any of the magic's perimiter defenders

deng's body will pose problems for petrius

VC, if he shows up sould do good

d12 will get his 15 and 13 on noah

but ultimately, i think the bulls are better than the magic, but not by much at all, dont get me wrong, bulls have work to do to

Kingdre619
07-29-2010, 04:14 PM
Yes, Noah has a body. a small, ugly, lanky skinny body compared to Dwight. Dwight rapes Noah.
Yes, Yao Ming and Shaq (2 or 3 yrs ago) and Bynum can guard Dwight well. Perkins too. But thats about it. Those are the only guys with enough size to keep up with him. Too bad they are all too old or injured. They are getting worse while Dwight can only get better.

shaq didnt own d12 every time they faced off tho???

in phx, and with cavs at his "OLD" Age

Wcuracer29
07-29-2010, 04:14 PM
wth would i mention howard

from the beginning of this thread i said who is going to guard boozer?

who is guarding lbj, bosh, and wade?

who is guarding pierce

then i asked who on the team is a legitimate defender

CONTEXT CLUES ANYONE???:confused:

and that question was answered, several times. then you came back with "obviously howard was excluded..." no genius, he's not excluded- that's my point, you are making stuff up and have been all along by stating the magic got to the finals "by default". You keep making stupid statements dogging the magic, then when people prove you wrong- or you see you have no backing for your statements, you turn to something different. You fail- everyone here now knows you're an idiot- move along.

Wcuracer29
07-29-2010, 04:15 PM
shaq didnt own d12 every time they faced off tho???

in phx, and with cavs at his "OLD" Age

no he didn't- he owned Gortat though. That's where all his #'s versus the Magic came from last season.

RadiantShot
07-29-2010, 04:16 PM
petrius, he is an iight defender, but id give him to u, and gortat no-doubt

but outside of that, who is going to guard the leagues best players?

no-one

That's a stupid argument. Very stupid. "Who is going to guard the league's best players?" Nobody. That's why they are the league's BEST. Hello. I can only think of a few guys, and even then, stars will get their own. It's proven. You can only slow down a star so much; but you don't stop them. Shane Battier is the closest person I can think of who can actually slow down Kobe the best, (Just an example).

Doesn't matter. We have Dwight in the middle. Dwight is the best defender, and team-defender, in the league, hands down. Your point is going to hell-in-a-hand-basket, my friend.

RadiantShot
07-29-2010, 04:17 PM
first of all, this is going to add more fuel to the fire u guys started:

WHAT IS THERE TO DEFEND?

all the guy does is grab rebounds, and dunk them back in the basket, and catch alley-oops

what is there to defend?

u act like he is shaq or something, someone that actually knows what to do with the ball.PAUSE

dwight howard is a tremendous player, but he has no post game

u put noah on him, a guy who has a body, and length, who can rebound and block shots, and howard is not a problem

u put shaq on him, no problem, yao ming, no problem, bynum, no problem

No post game, yet averaging one of the highest, if not, the highest, Points-per-game, out of all the centers in the league. Brook Lopez, and Yao (Who should be playing soon...) (?) Only had, or will have, higher points-per-game averages, than Dwight, if even that. Dwight was working with Hakeem this summer, so don't be surprised if he comes back with his "Milk shake." ;)

Kingdre619
07-29-2010, 04:18 PM
and that question was answered, several times. then you came back with "obviously howard was excluded..." no genius, he's not excluded- that's my point, you are making stuff up and have been all along by stating the magic got to the finals "by default". You keep making stupid statements dogging the magic, then when people prove you wrong- or you see you have no backing for your statements, you turn to something different. You fail- everyone here now knows you're an idiot- move along.

so by what you are saying, i should have said that howard was excluded, because the average basketball fan doesnt know that d12 cant guard wade, lbj, pierce, kobe, meloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, etc

ive backed everything ive said

i hate fanboys with a passion

as soon as you say somethign about their team, all of a sudden, u hate them, like its redicolous

its like me saying that the timberwolvs suck, then u telling me that im a hater, like wth?

MagicHero3
07-29-2010, 04:20 PM
THA MILK SHHAAAKKKEE i cant wait lol

Kingdre619
07-29-2010, 04:20 PM
No post game, yet averaging one of the highest, if not, the highest, Points-per-game, out of all the centers in the league. Brook Lopez, and Yao (Who should be playing soon...) (?) Only had, or will have, higher points-per-game averages, than Dwight, if even that. Dwight was working with Hakeem this summer, so don't be surprised if he comes back with his "Milk shake." ;)

i didnt start off daying that most of his points come from putbacks and alley oops tho?

he probably gets about 2 baskets a game from his post game, the rest from free throws, alley oops, and put back shots

Kingdre619
07-29-2010, 04:22 PM
THA MILK SHHAAAKKKEE i cant wait lol

if he ever got a post game, it would be great for that team, but it still wouldnt make them title contenders, they need more help

RadiantShot
07-29-2010, 04:23 PM
shaq didnt own d12 every time they faced off tho???

in phx, and with cavs at his "OLD" Age

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGdKTiC51aw

Go ahead, throw the Shaq dunk back.

headbusta15
07-29-2010, 04:25 PM
well, not in my book, how do they beat the bulls?

who is holding boozer? who is holding rose? noah can defend howard

who is guarding wade? lebron? bosh?

who is guarding pierce?

Noah cant Defend Howard! what r u talking about! do u even watch Magic games or are you just assuming?

Wcuracer29
07-29-2010, 04:26 PM
so by what you are saying, i should have said that howard was excluded, because the average basketball fan doesnt know that d12 cant guard wade, lbj, pierce, kobe, meloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, etc

ive backed everything ive said

i hate fanboys with a passion

as soon as you say somethign about their team, all of a sudden, u hate them, like its redicolous

its like me saying that the timberwolvs suck, then u telling me that im a hater, like wth?

the average basketball fan does know D12 is a great defender- but yes, if you are going to make an argument about how you are NOT underrating a team's defense and ask someone to name a good defender on a team- you better make damn certain you mention that you already agree D12 is a good defender.

Kingdre619
07-29-2010, 04:26 PM
noah cant defend howard! What r u talking about! Do u even watch magic games or are you just assuming?

for the last time, what is there to guard? He has no post game

MagicHero3
07-29-2010, 04:26 PM
Kings, your right. Even though you SOUND like you hate the Magic, only YOU know whetheer you do or not, so i believe you. The problem is the things you are saying about the Magic are simply innaccurate. Yes, Dwight can be better in the post, and he will be.
There are no standout-defenders besides Dwight, Jameer is always outsized, and Vince isnt athletic enough to keep up with players as much. Also, Rashard is a natural SF and he has to guard PFs every game.

BUT, despite all those flaws, the Magic end up being one of the most successful defensive teams in the league. We dont have any OUTSTANDING scorers, but our defense wins games.

Also, theres a fairly large Orlando Magic fanbase, especially on PSD forums.
We are title contenders, but we havent won anything yet, so I cannot brag beyond that point.

Although, I believe every year Dwight gets better. This means the TEAM will improve as well (hopefully).
We surround our offense AND defense around the guy, so I can imagine if the player we base our game around gets better, so will the team.

Wcuracer29
07-29-2010, 04:27 PM
THA MILK SHHAAAKKKEE i cant wait lol

hahahaha- very nice.

Kingdre619
07-29-2010, 04:27 PM
the average basketball fan does know D12 is a great defender- but yes, if you are going to make an argument about how you are NOT underrating a team's defense and ask someone to name a good defender on a team- you better make damn certain you mention that you already agree D12 is a good defender.

but its obvious that the guy had back to back defensiv players of the year

its rhetorical, hope im using the right word, lol

Wcuracer29
07-29-2010, 04:28 PM
for the last time, what is there to guard? He has no post game

keep D12 away from the basket and don't allow him to get those easy put back dunks. Keep him out of the paint and don't allow him to get those alley-oops that he's always getting. There's more to the game than posting up.

Wcuracer29
07-29-2010, 04:30 PM
but its obvious that the guy had back to back defensiv players of the year

its rhetorical, hope im using the right word, lol

ya it's obvious he won the awards, but not obvious that he's excluded from the conversation- you asked "who on the magic" and D12 is on the magic, therefore he's included.

i'm actually trying to help you out in the future bro- if you're going to make an argument and challenge someone to do something- you better set the ground rules first or it'll come back to haunt you. that is all.

I'm glad you agree he's a great defender- that, and the fact that his post game is...well...less that desireable- we can agree on those two things.

Hoopsadvocate
07-29-2010, 04:30 PM
for the last time, what is there to guard? He has no post game

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVVgEUE4or8

Looks like some post game to me at least 3 within the first 30 sec of video. He would destroy Noah.

Iceman05
07-29-2010, 04:30 PM
Youre an idiot dude.


as they would have in 08 had Kg not been injured.


You also forget we didnt have Jameer either. Where would Boston have been this year without Rondo?

Our leading passer was a SF, but Turk 16pts 5ast was a hell of a lot better against Bos than VC 13pts 2ast. That was the big difference. in 08-09 we had 3 starters over 6-10, and 2 of them could shoot from anywhere on the floor.


their whole gameplan is to shoot threes and let dwight howard do everything for the team rebounding and defensively

Maybe because hes the best in the whole league at it. You think that dwight has no post game, yet every coach in the NBA feels he has enough to warrant a double team. Thats like saying Shaq was never a good player. Thats the reason our team philosphy works. while it may be a disadvantage when we're on defense, big PFs cant matchup with Lewis when OMag are on offense

PrettyBoyJ
07-29-2010, 04:31 PM
I dont understand how someone can win by default??.. they made there title runs because they won their games.. They beat the Celtics with no KG, yes but is it the Magics Fault he injured himself.. they came ready to play and they won.. And Cavs was the best team that year 67 wins.. they beat the Cavs because of match up problems.. Cavs players were too small.. I dont see any default here..

Kingdre619
07-29-2010, 04:32 PM
Kings, your right. Even though you SOUND like you hate the Magic, only YOU know whetheer you do or not, so i believe you. The problem is the things you are saying about the Magic are simply innaccurate. Yes, Dwight can be better in the post, and he will be.
There are no standout-defenders besides Dwight, Jameer is always outsized, and Vince isnt athletic enough to keep up with players as much. Also, Rashard is a natural SF and he has to guard PFs every game.

BUT, despite all those flaws, the Magic end up being one of the most successful defensive teams in the league. We dont have any OUTSTANDING scorers, but our defense wins games.

Also, theres a fairly large Orlando Magic fanbase, especially on PSD forums.
We are title contenders, but we havent won anything yet, so I cannot brag beyond that point.

Although, I believe every year Dwight gets better. This means the TEAM will improve as well (hopefully).
We surround our offense AND defense around the guy, so I can imagine if the player we base our game around gets better, so will the team.

i wasnt bashing your team, im just saying they are not a great team and they are not title contenders, and never were

but i would love to see them acquire okeafor, posey, and cp3

as a said b4 this wld fix all their issues, and they probably would be the favorite in the east, and undoubtedly a title contender

MagicHero3
07-29-2010, 04:32 PM
well the post game consists of more than post scoring moves. It consists of boxing out, rebounding, putbacks, defensive post game, inside-out passing and so on. We will all admit that Dwight could use some more Post-Scoring moves, but his post-game in general is defensive and rebound-minded at this point. The next step; inside scoring moves.

srfr4life
07-29-2010, 04:34 PM
ur just madd im talking about ur team or something. im trying to say that the team needs help, and are not, and never were an actual title contender in the NBA. thats all. and its the truth

Of course it's upsetting to here someone tell you your teams really isn't great considering what they've accomplished the last 3 or 4 years.

But that's not why I said that this thread just proved that people think you're wrong. Look at the votes and what most people are saying. Majority of them think your head is too far up your a-ss! The Magic didn't get to the finals by default and they're an elite team in this league.

I'm obviously a little biased and think they can win a title with the team we have. It will take some luck for sure. But a lot of things can happen next year. It's only Carter's second year with this system. I think his confidence will be more present. Our CEO and GM agree that Bass will be used more at the 4 moving Lewis to the 3.
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/comments/vander-weide-expect-to-see-more-brandon-bass-next-season-392341.html


I think we'll adapt and be stronger than you guys give credit for.

... and don't even get me started if we pull off the CP3 trade.

headbusta15
07-29-2010, 04:34 PM
dude i know Howard need alot of work on his offence but there are some players that just cant guard him, he tears up most people in the NBA and thats without moves, Perkins and Gasol tear up DH but Bynum no way , bynum cant even take Kwame lol jk he prolly could

Kingdre619
07-29-2010, 04:34 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVVgEUE4or8

Looks like some post game to me at least 3 within the first 30 sec of video. He would destroy Noah.

i wont waste my time watchin ur video, u can put up a clip of d12 making a hook shot or a post move from all 82 games, and he probably makes 1 out of 5 of his post moves, i am not impressed

he has no post game, his performance this playoffs was just another display of the fact that offensively, he is still a raw talent

Wcuracer29
07-29-2010, 04:35 PM
i wasnt bashing your team, im just saying they are not a great team and they are not title contenders, and never were

but i would love to see them acquire okeafor, posey, and cp3

as a said b4 this wld fix all their issues, and they probably would be the favorite in the east, and undoubtedly a title contender

don't really see this trade happening- but would like to see CP3 in the Blue and white for sure.

Kingdre619
07-29-2010, 04:36 PM
Youre an idiot dude.



You also forget we didnt have Jameer either. Where would Boston have been this year without Rondo?

Our leading passer was a SF, but Turk 16pts 5ast was a hell of a lot better against Bos than VC 13pts 2ast. That was the big difference. in 08-09 we had 3 starters over 6-10, and 2 of them could shoot from anywhere on the floor.



Maybe because hes the best in the whole league at it. You think that dwight has no post game, yet every coach in the NBA feels he has enough to warrant a double team. Thats like saying Shaq was never a good player. Thats the reason our team philosphy works. while it may be a disadvantage when we're on defense, big PFs cant matchup with Lewis when OMag are on offense

and where did that get you this year? yea, didnt think so

they double team becaus the guy cant keep the ball in his hands, every time they double him, the ball gets poked away

Hoopsadvocate
07-29-2010, 04:36 PM
i wont waste my time watchin ur video, u can put up a clip of d12 making a hook shot or a post move from all 82 games, and he probably makes 1 out of 5 of his post moves, i am not impressed

he has no post game, his performance this playoffs was just another display of the fact that offensively, he is still a raw talent

Alright then ur ignorantly blind u only have to watch the first 30 sec to see he has a post game (not saying its the greatets but he has one so dont say he doesnt).

No point in talking to a person who wont even chose to watch proof thats given to him.

ALL_i-Do_is-Win
07-29-2010, 04:37 PM
Howard>Noah
Boozer>Lewis
Deng ties with petrius
carter>brewer
Rose>nelson


..... deng is not equal with petrius....
deng is top sf...
there r not many better then him
he is def 5-10 sf

only ones that are much better then him are
lbj, durant, melo, granger, granger

other are in the same level like gay... other sry if i forgot others
this is what i am taking abt people underrating deng...

Kingdre619
07-29-2010, 04:37 PM
dude i know Howard need alot of work on his offence but there are some players that just cant guard him, he tears up most people in the NBA and thats without moves, Perkins and Gasol tear up DH but Bynum no way , bynum cant even take Kwame lol jk he prolly could

yes, he tears up teams that dont have true centers, like the rockets, knicks, hawks, etc

Kingdre619
07-29-2010, 04:38 PM
don't really see this trade happening- but would like to see CP3 in the Blue and white for sure.

its certainly a possibility, hornets would benefit and so would the magic

Kingdre619
07-29-2010, 04:40 PM
Alright then ur ignorantly blind u only have to watch the first 30 sec to see he has a post game (not saying its the greatets but he has one so dont say he doesnt).

No point in talking to a person who wont even chose to watch proof thats given to him.

guy, u can show him making 1 post shot each game, and mash it together and make a video, and try to convince me he has a post game, it wont work

its a waste of my time

i would rather continue my conversation with you guys than watch sum stupid video of him making a hook shot or some crap, im not impressed

scutch11
07-29-2010, 04:41 PM
anyone who underrates howard is purely stupid and ignorant. there arent many true centers left in the nba, and he is BY FAR the best out of all them. the only person who has somewhat had success against him consistently is perkins, but that is purely defensively.

howard is easily a top 5 mvp in the NBA for the next 10 years, his post game will only get better, and anyone who talks smack about him is gonna get smacked on

Avenged
07-29-2010, 04:41 PM
Dwight Howard averaged 18ppg and 13 rebounds last season. If you think he has no offensive game while averaging 18 points a game, imagine if he did have an offensive game? Not only is that impressive, but he did that while shooting .612%.

Wait wait... not only that but he's top 10 in PER, the only center in the top 10 PER wise and #6 to be specific. (You can exclude Oden since he played in only 21 games last season).

MagicHero3
07-29-2010, 04:44 PM
13 boards, not 13 assists lol

Wcuracer29
07-29-2010, 04:45 PM
its certainly a possibility, hornets would benefit and so would the magic

i agree- but i just don't see it happening.

knickfan33
07-29-2010, 04:45 PM
they are great, look at their records over the last couple years. they have the most dominant big man in the league, and a great supporting cast. if miami has problems adjusting, they should be 1 in the east.

Raph12
07-29-2010, 04:46 PM
@Avenged24,

Dude I went to the gym worked out for like 2hrs, got back and saw that you're still arguing with this idiot lol... Let it go bro, some people just love to be ignorant.

Kingdre619
07-29-2010, 04:46 PM
anyone who underrates howard is purely stupid and ignorant. there arent many true centers left in the nba, and he is BY FAR the best out of all them. the only person who has somewhat had success against him consistently is perkins, but that is purely defensively.

howard is easily a top 5 mvp in the NBA for the next 10 years, his post game will only get better, and anyone who talks smack about him is gonna get smacked on

as i said he's RAW

Kingdre619
07-29-2010, 04:47 PM
Dwight Howard averaged 18ppg and 13 rebounds last season. If you think he has no offensive game while averaging 18 points a game, imagine if he did have an offensive game? Not only is that impressive, but he did that while shooting .612%.

Wait wait... not only that but he's top 10 in PER, the only center in the top 10 PER wise and #6 to be specific. (You can exclude Oden since he played in only 21 games last season).

THE FUNNY PART about ur post is that i already answered ur question

MagicHero3
07-29-2010, 04:48 PM
its not a 30 second mashup of all his post moves btw. Just understand that when you DO see the Dwight Howard Milk Shake, you will eat your words. And wash them down. With what you ask? oh...you know the answer.

Kingdre619
07-29-2010, 04:49 PM
i will say this right now, and u can keep me to it

THE ORLANDO MAGIC WILL NEVER WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP, OR REACH THE CONFERENCE FINALS EVER AGAIN UNTIL THEY ACQUIRE A PG, A PF, AND A DEFENSIVE PERIMETER PLAYER

and gud luck with that

headbusta15
07-29-2010, 04:54 PM
13 boards, not 13 assists lol

LOL Imagine 13 assist! that would be awesome

MagicHero3
07-29-2010, 04:54 PM
i will say this right now, and u can keep me to it

THE ORLANDO MAGIC WILL NEVER WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP, OR REACH THE CONFERENCE FINALS EVER AGAIN UNTIL THEY ACQUIRE A PG, A PF, AND A DEFENSIVE PERIMETER PLAYER

and gud luck with that

hahaha and thats the most NBA-Educated conclusion he can come up with. Who do YOU like? what team ru a fan of? or are u just one of those kids who hates on other teams, and doesnt have one for himself so no1 can hate on his. I love the amount of input youve put it on the Magic. I dont care what you say about em, as long as your talkin about em, Im content. As long as we can climb the newly formed obstacle known as "The Heat", we have a very good chance at a championship. We spent the last 2 yrs learning what we do WRONG since we didnt win the title, its only a matter of time before were the ones holdin the trophy.
Im confident in my Magic, and I thank you again for the attention you have spent on my team.

Kingdre619
07-29-2010, 04:56 PM
another piece of advice- please learn to use proper spelling and grammer. Typing "gud" in place of "good" is plain lazy and needs to be kept on the cell phone.

and please go try and be a GM somewhere if you know exactly what teams like the Magic need- saying they will "NEVER WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP" is without a doubt being a hater- there's no question about it anymore.

why are u guys so blind, like u read one line of what i post and make an opinion

I SAID UNTIL THEY ACQUIRE...

idiot

knickfan33
07-29-2010, 04:57 PM
And suprisingly noone metnions the fact that howards blocking keeps players out of the paint, so you gotta hit your J's against the Magic.... and it's just pure momentum when he sends your star players layup into the 6th row.

Wcuracer29
07-29-2010, 04:57 PM
hahaha and thats the most NBA-Educated conclusion he can come up with. Who do YOU like? what team ru a fan of? or are u just one of those kids who hates on other teams, and doesnt have one for himself so no1 can hate on his. I love the amount of input youve put it on the Magic. I dont care what you say about em, as long as your talkin about em, Im content. As long as we can climb the newly formed obstacle known as "The Heat", we have a very good chance at a championship. We spent the last 2 yrs learning what we do WRONG since we didnt win the title, its only a matter of time before were the ones holdin the trophy.
Im confident in my Magic, and I thank you again for the attention you have spent on my team.

Chicago- he's a Bulls fan

Avenged
07-29-2010, 04:59 PM
13 boards, not 13 assists lol

Hah, simple typo.


@Avenged24,

Dude I went to the gym worked out for like 2hrs, got back and saw that you're still arguing with this idiot lol... Let it go bro, some people just love to be ignorant.

Yeah, you're right. The Magic fans can take it from here, doing a good job so far.

Wcuracer29
07-29-2010, 05:00 PM
why are u guys so blind, like u read one line of what i post and make an opinion

I SAID UNTIL THEY ACQUIRE...

idiot

oh i read the entire post- idiot- read more than one line of mine, especially the part where it says you should go be a GM if you know exactly what teams need- this would prove to your dumba$$ that i read your entire stupid post and wasted 5 seconds of my life. again- another epic fail on your part. You are just digging yourself deeper into a hole.

Your statment is still one of a hater- pure, plain and simple.

headbusta15
07-29-2010, 05:05 PM
18 pts almost 3 blocks pg 61% shooting and 13 Reb pg !!! All this with No Offence lol wow i cant wait for Howard to get an Offenceive game He will f**in be iilegal in the NBA and as for the Magic not getting back to the ECF your outta your damn mind! WE WILL RETURN! The Magic were a Courtney Lee alley oop and a pair of DH Freethrows or even 1 FT away from taking the series farther VS The lakers

Kingdre619
07-29-2010, 05:10 PM
18 pts almost 3 blocks pg 61% shooting and 13 Reb pg !!! All this with No Offence lol wow i cant wait for Howard to get an Offenceive game He will f**in be iilegal in the NBA and as for the Magic not getting back to the ECF your outta your damn mind! WE WILL RETURN! The Magic were a Courtney Lee alley oop and a pair of DH Freethrows or even 1 FT away from taking the series farther VS The lakers

I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU SAID except that the magic return to the finals, and the fact that if KG wasnt injured that we wouldnt be having this conversation right now because there would have been no courtney lee alley - woops

and yes, thats woops, with a W

Kingdre619
07-29-2010, 05:18 PM
I don't know how accurate this statement is, since I haven't read all the posts, but why does it seem most people disagree with you. It's like you against the rest of the forum.

i guess so, and i dont mind it being that way

smart people need idiots to survive, good needs bad, etc, its the way life is

J4KOP99
07-29-2010, 05:20 PM
Wow, this thread is crazy. Everybody talks about Dwights post game being bad, but the guy scores from the post all the time. He backs you down under the basket, lifts and scores. It doesnt have to look like Kareem's or Bynum's, but he has a good one. Magic can make it to the Finals and even though they could use one more guy, they are contenders now.

This is the problem though. If you want to use Dwight Howard dominating the Bobcats or something like that as your example, good for you.


If that's how the Magic fans measure themeselves, then I guess I understand the problem.

Dwight is easily contained when facing a solid defensive center. Look at what the Celtics did to him. The Lakers have the same depth. The Magic have absolutely nobody to try to slow down Wade or LeBron. Bosh can go off on Rashard Lewis. Even the Mavs have more than the Magic.

Call the Magic contenders all you want(because by definition, that is what they do) but when it comes down to it, they don't have a chance against the top teams(Lakers, Celts, Heat)...(possibly the mavs).

Kingdre619
07-29-2010, 05:21 PM
This is the problem though. If you want to use Dwight Howard dominating the Bobcats or something like that as your example, good for you.


If that's how the Magic fans measure themeselves, then I guess I understand the problem.

Dwight is easily contained when facing a solid defensive center. Look at what the Celtics did to him. The Lakers have the same depth. The Magic have absolutely nobody to try to slow down Wade or LeBron. Bosh can go off on Rashard Lewis. Even the Mavs have more than the Magic.

Call the Magic contenders all you want(because by definition, that is what they do) but when it comes down to it, they don't have a chance against the top teams(Lakers, Celts, Heat)...(possibly the mavs).

thank you:clap:

robdizzle3
07-29-2010, 05:25 PM
This is the problem though. If you want to use Dwight Howard dominating the Bobcats or something like that as your example, good for you.


If that's how the Magic fans measure themeselves, then I guess I understand the problem.

Dwight is easily contained when facing a solid defensive center. Look at what the Celtics did to him. The Lakers have the same depth. The Magic have absolutely nobody to try to slow down Wade or LeBron. Bosh can go off on Rashard Lewis. Even the Mavs have more than the Magic.

Call the Magic contenders all you want(because by definition, that is what they do) but when it comes down to it, they don't have a chance against the top teams(Lakers, Celts, Heat)...(possibly the mavs).

I agree with you to some extent, but even the Celtics had trouble guarding him, because they triple teamed him very much in that series, but nobody stepped up to fight alongside him until it was too late. i agree, they need another piece, which they actually have the means to go and get. The only solid defensive Center that can contain him is Perk and he always got into foul trouble and like I said before, he got double and triple teamed.

Kingdre619
07-29-2010, 05:29 PM
:clap:

You obviously have some contempt for them there top 3 now! threes our risky buisness and if VC and RL ever perform theyd be even better Nelson ain't no slouch orlando will continue to improve and if they can ever dump VC for a real player theyd really kill it

lol

imo they shld get rid of:

duhon, petrius, nelson, carter

keep RL, even tho they r idiots for givin him dat OD contract

J4KOP99
07-29-2010, 05:38 PM
Just because 1 poster out of a bunch underrates the Magic just as much as you do, doesn't necessarily mean it's true. But whatever makes you happy.

I'm not agreeing with the everything the original poster is saying... I don't even feel like I'm underrating them, right now I have them as the 3rd best team in the East and 5th best in the league.

Read what I said and tell me one thing you disagree with me about. I would love to hear it.

And you better have a reason too. I don't want to hear something like "this is stupid" or "makes no sense."

slack_justin
07-29-2010, 05:49 PM
Orlando does need a better PG, Chris Paul i do believe would've put them as a legit contender.

Nelson isnt a bad PG he's just not the guy for this spot.
Maybe even a Chauncey (which im not saying i think should happen) Billups may even be the TYPE guy you need out there. Slow things down a Little,

Then again if they want to keep the run n gun. A faster guy with better passing abilities the is what they need.

Avenged
07-29-2010, 05:53 PM
I'm not agreeing with the everything the original poster is saying... I don't even feel like I'm underrating them, right now I have them as the 3rd best team in the East and 5th best in the league.

Read what I said and tell me one thing you disagree with me about. I would love to hear it.

And you better have a reason too. I don't want to hear something like "this is stupid" or "makes no sense."

First off, Dwight isn't "easily contained". He averages 18ppg, how is that being "easily contained"? Doesn't Gasol average the same amount of points, while being considered the best skilled big man in the league? If Dwight averages the same as Gasol while being "easily contained", with a limited offensive game, don't you think that's way more impressive?

Now, as far the his performance against the Celtics, what exactly did they do to him? He averaged more points than he did in the regular season against the Celtics in the playoffs. He avg 21.8ppg on 56% shooting. Not only that but his blocks, steals, and assists went up. The only thing that went down were his rebounding numbers but since we're discussing offense here, he did grab more rebounds against the Celtics offensively than he did during the regular season.

ManRam
07-29-2010, 06:17 PM
Deleted 46 posts. New record. I'm sure I didn't get everything, but you guys have outdone yourself.

Can you PLEASE report posts. Half of you guys were complaining about how bad this thread was, but you the easiest way to get mods in here?!?! REPORT POSTS. You can't expect us to see every thread and every post.

This was a legitimate topic. Too bad you guys had to go ahead and kill another thread.

I'm going to keep this open because there is some legit discussion here, but remember the zero tolerance policy is in effect. ;)

Kyle N.
07-29-2010, 06:18 PM
This has probably been said already, but the Magic were a layup and a free throw away from being up 3-1 against the Lakers in the Finals. That's not doing too bad if you ask me.

RadiantShot
07-29-2010, 06:22 PM
Orlando does need a better PG, Chris Paul i do believe would've put them as a legit contender.

Nelson isnt a bad PG he's just not the guy for this spot.
Maybe even a Chauncey (which im not saying i think should happen) Billups may even be the TYPE guy you need out there. Slow things down a Little,

Then again if they want to keep the run n gun. A faster guy with better passing abilities the is what they need.

Paul wouldn't make us a "legit contender," he'd make us, "automatic favorites." What team, would a Chris Paul, NOT make better..? None. Yes, he's good, yes, Jameer isn't Chris Paul, but the thing is, Jameer's role is fine on this team, and Jameer is not the reason we didn't make it back to the Finals, with a chance of winning, last year, point-blank. Anyone who thinks I'm wrong, prove it, because I'd like to hear an argument against it. Jameer is one of the farthest, yes, the farthest, reasons away, from why we didn't get back to the Finals.

RadiantShot
07-29-2010, 06:28 PM
lol

imo they shld get rid of:

duhon, petrius, nelson, carter

keep RL, even tho they r idiots for givin him dat OD contract

We just got Duhon.
Pietrus is our defensive back-up.
Nelson is fine on this team.
Carter, I semi-agree with, but I'm willing to give a shot.


I'd prefer :

-Carter
-Gortat (For the reason he doesn't WANT to have a back-up role).
-Anderson

I do like Gortat, but he doesn't WANT to back-up anyone...He wants to start, and that's where the trade falls. Anderson just...Is another younger, raw, Rashard Lewis...But he's soft. We don't need soft.

RadiantShot
07-29-2010, 06:30 PM
First off, Dwight isn't "easily contained". He averages 18ppg, how is that being "easily contained"? Doesn't Gasol average the same amount of points, while being considered the best skilled big man in the league? If Dwight averages the same as Gasol while being "easily contained", with a limited offensive game, don't you think that's way more impressive?

Now, as far the his performance against the Celtics, what exactly did they do to him? He averaged more points than he did in the regular season against the Celtics in the playoffs. He avg 21.8ppg on 56% shooting. Not only that but his blocks, steals, and assists went up. The only thing that went down were his rebounding numbers but since we're discussing offense here, he did grab more rebounds against the Celtics offensively than he did during the regular season.

Haha. And that's why I love you.

Raph12
07-29-2010, 10:02 PM
Magic need 5 things for them to be considered favs: (in order of importance)

1. For Dwight to be more consistent with his post game and work on his passing out of doubles

2. A real PF to battle with Gasol/Bosh/Garnett/Boozer

3. A real second option who can draw fouls and create his own shot at any given time

4. A pass-first PG who can keep the whole team involved throughout the game

5. More capable wing defenders


Now this is their solutions to address those: (Best Case Scenario | Worst Case Scenario)

1. Dwight becomes a 25+ppg-3apg with Hakeem's guidance | Dwight stays as is (a good finisher/inconsistent post force)

2. Vazquez comes over next season/Okafor in the deal for Chris Paul | Bass and Gortat play the 4 more

3. Trading for Chris Paul | Carter

4. Trading for Chris Paul | Nelson

5. Getting Posey in the deal for Chris Paul | Pietrus/Richardson/Redick/Carter


I can't see us getting any worse, it could only get better from here on out.

USMCLaker
07-29-2010, 10:06 PM
Default?

The NBA's new motto: The NBA where default happens.

Iceman05
07-29-2010, 10:19 PM
this simply posted by a 8==3 with no life. no one on this site (but you) has enough time to respond 42 times.

J4KOP99
07-30-2010, 01:09 PM
First off, Dwight isn't "easily contained". He averages 18ppg, how is that being "easily contained"? Doesn't Gasol average the same amount of points, while being considered the best skilled big man in the league? If Dwight averages the same as Gasol while being "easily contained", with a limited offensive game, don't you think that's way more impressive?

Now, as far the his performance against the Celtics, what exactly did they do to him? He averaged more points than he did in the regular season against the Celtics in the playoffs. He avg 21.8ppg on 56% shooting. Not only that but his blocks, steals, and assists went up. The only thing that went down were his rebounding numbers but since we're discussing offense here, he did grab more rebounds against the Celtics offensively than he did during the regular season.

This is exactly my point.

I don't care about Dwight's statistical average over the course of a season.(Your first paragraph) I have already said he is the best center in the league, what are you trying to prove here?
(Also, a little side note. You clearly know Gasol is not the main option. He is the Lakers 2nd option. If you want to compare the Magic's first option, to the Lakers 2nd option... go ahead. Not proving much but I guess it is fun to do.)

My point, and it hasn't changed, is that this current Orlando team WILL NOT win a championship. Look at their roster and tell me how they beat LA, Miami, Boston or Dallas.


Yes, by definition they are contenders, but so are the Bulls, Spurs, Jazz and a few other teams.

And Dwight was contained in that Boston series. If you want to look at his stats for the series go ahead... this is what I looked at.

Game 1- 13 pts, 12 rebounds 3-10 shooting from the field and 2 assists.

Game 2- 30 pts 8 rebounds while completely losing home court in the series. He also had 1 assist and the next highest scorer had 16 points, followed by 9. Howard has a pretty big game, Magic still can't win at home.

Game 3- (In a game they had to win) Howard had 7 points and 7 rebounds. Was not in foul trouble as he only had 3 fouls. He shot 3-10 from the field with 1 assist.

Game 4- Fighting off a sweep, Howard has a huge game with 32 pts and 16 rebs.

Game 5- 21 pts, 10 rebounds. Celtics get killed by 21. Throw away game, as they easily close it out at home.

Game 6- If the Magic win they would have come all the way back and force a game 7. Instead, this great defensive team goes down 30-19 in the 1st quarter. Howard ends up with 28 pts and 12 rebounds. This time he has 0 assists. For a team with a ton of 3 point shooter, you would think he would learn to kick it out for open shots?

Oh wait...

The Celtics are comfortable with playing Howard 1 v 1. My ****ing point all along. Yes, he will get his points... BUT THE MAGIC STILL DON'T WIN. The Celtics can easily contain him, let him do whatever, it doesn't effect them.

If you group the stats up over the course of a series like you did, stats look much better than they actually should. Look at games 1-3, he couldn't do anything. A must-win game 3, he shows up with 7-7.


The Magic do not have enough, right now, to win a championship. I like the team a lot, they are fun to watch, and definitely a solid team. However, they are not good enough to win it all.

thekmp211
07-30-2010, 01:32 PM
if they could turn shard and vince into rip hamilton and elton brand, it would help them a lot.

Slimsim
07-30-2010, 01:40 PM
I feel Orlando will be rob of a opportunity to Win a championship. No thanks to Miami. Then Magic still have to face Boston as they still are the team to beat in the east. Then you have LA and young teams Like OKC, Portland and Chicago who will all be consider contenders in a year or 2 if not now. Then you have to worry about what superstar goes to which team. If Carmelo decide to come to NY then you can add another team that stands in there way. And you also have to worry about D Howard who was also tainted by the 2008 Olympics team and might decide to join a Super team. Orlando don't have young players around Dwight which is also another negative.

MagicHero3
07-30-2010, 03:21 PM
This has probably been said already, but the Magic were a layup and a free throw away from being up 3-1 against the Lakers in the Finals. That's not doing too bad if you ask me.

Amen to that. We just need the #1 scoring option to be someone other than Dwight.
Unless the Howard Shake makes him unstoppable, which im hoping it does

mikealike305
07-30-2010, 03:24 PM
orlando needs something else.... and they need it now or never... thats why they are one of the losers in this off season IMO

PackerGuru
07-30-2010, 03:51 PM
how are you dawgin the magic like that? there easily a top team not only in the east but in the entire league. you talk like if the magic playoff run was soo easy. beating the mvp of the league in the playoffs isnt anything easy. and who cares about his post game, and if they shoot nuff 3s, are they not winning? and even without the post game is there any big man better than d12. you sound like a scorned fan with all your stupid info. orlando must of slapped up your team.

MagicHero3
07-30-2010, 03:54 PM
look at your avatar. thats what i meant.

u said "off-season loser". The magic already have a squad that took them into the playoffs, and we didnt lose anybody major. In fact, i think Q is an upgrade of matt barnes.

The definition, in my opinion, of an "off-season loser" is Clevland, Toronto, Utah, the Suns, the Nets, etc.

continue to get beat by who? CHI? im sorry but that didnt happen. that is literally something you just made up lol. you have to start to beat us first. and the Heat havent played a game yet, so i dont know how they can be "continually" beating us.

but apparently you can tell the future.
if u can do me a favor, tell me how much better Dwight is in the future? And how there is NO ONE on the Heat who can match up with him, especially when he masters his post offense?

mikealike305
07-30-2010, 03:58 PM
look at your avatar. thats what i meant.

u said "off-season loser". The magic already have a squad that took them into the playoffs, and we didnt lose anybody major. In fact, i think Q is an upgrade of matt barnes.

The definition, in my opinion, of an "off-season loser" is Clevland, Toronto, Utah, the Suns, the Nets, etc.

continue to get beat by who? CHI? im sorry but that didnt happen. that is literally something you just made up lol. you have to start to beat us first. and the Heat havent played a game yet, so i dont know how they can be "continually" beating us.

but apparently you can tell the future.
if u can do me a favor, tell me how much better Dwight is in the future? And how there is NO ONE on the Heat who can match up with him, especially when he masters his post offense?

the heat beat orlando, chi will beat orlando... let me ask u this... how many titles have orlando won in the last 5 years?

ManRam
07-30-2010, 04:00 PM
look at your avatar. thats what i meant.

u said "off-season loser". The magic already have a squad that took them into the playoffs, and we didnt lose anybody major. In fact, i think Q is an upgrade of matt barnes.

The definition, in my opinion, of an "off-season loser" is Clevland, Toronto, Utah, the Suns, the Nets, etc.

continue to get beat by who? CHI? im sorry but that didnt happen. that is literally something you just made up lol. you have to start to beat us first. and the Heat havent played a game yet, so i dont know how they can be "continually" beating us.

but apparently you can tell the future.
if u can do me a favor, tell me how much better Dwight is in the future? And how there is NO ONE on the Heat who can match up with him, especially when he masters his post offense?

I agree. Only one team as far as I'm concerned had less work to do this off-season than us. Could have we used another star player? Of-course! What team wouldn't want that. Have we had more success in the playoffs the last two years than every other team in the league besides Los Angeles? Yes.

We made some small adjustments. We're going to change some things tactically (play around with Shard at the 3 etc.) and we're banking on Dwight to get better, Shard and Carter to bounce back from frankly terrible seasons (which makes getting back to the ECF even more impressive) and we're aware that Cleveland is no longer a factor, Boston's time is running out, and really only Chicago and Miami did anything we should be worried about.


Otis has had his big off-seasons already. We didn't have the money to make a big splash like Chicago, NYK or Miami did. So expecting us to do so is hilarious. For our cap situation, for how bad our draft pick position was, and for how full of a roster we already had...we did as good of a job as any REALISTIC fan could expect.

ManRam
07-30-2010, 04:02 PM
the heat beat orlando, chi will beat orlando... let me ask u this... how many titles have orlando won in the last 5 years?

Okay. Now you are just baiting. What is your point? How many has Chicago won. How many has Miami won with this roster?

What are you getting at?

MagicHero3
07-30-2010, 04:02 PM
lol one eastern conference championship title.
how many has chicago won? 0
how many times has the heat made it TO the eastern conference championships in the passed five years??? 1

how many times have the magic made it to the eastern conf championship in the passed 5 yrs? 2

Yes, Miami has a title, then shaq left, and what happened?

BUT, NOW, Miami is baller. I will not argue with you there.

mikealike305
07-30-2010, 04:04 PM
Okay. Now you are just baiting. What is your point? How many has Chicago won. How many has Miami won with this roster?

What are you getting at?

im not baiting let me get to my point, the point is, orlando hasnt done enough, if they have on a title and stayed the same i would say thy had a good off season, but they havnt won but didnt do anything to put them over the hill

scutch11
07-30-2010, 04:06 PM
Amen to that. We just need the #1 scoring option to be someone other than Dwight.
Unless the Howard Shake makes him unstoppable, which im hoping it does

one more piece would realllly help them and make them even more legit, preferably a scorer or pg...but either way they are going to be a bonafide contender for the next 5-8 years as long as management doesnt screw up

ManRam
07-30-2010, 04:08 PM
Last thing I'll say before I leave work.

Mike is criticizing us for not making a move to "put us over the top" and therefore we are off-season losers. Only one team needed to make less of a move to be put "over the top" than Orlando, and that's LA. Entering the off-season, we were closer to being a championship caliber team than every team but LA. So, saying that we didn't make a move to "put us over the top" is funny to me, since we have far less work to do to get to that top. We didn't need to make a big splash any more than 28 other teams in the league. Otis' plan all along was just to make small tweaks.

Otis, SVG, RDV and BDV all think that the team they have built is good enough to get it done. Last season, a lot of guys sucked. Plain and simple. If we get Carter to shoot 45%, Lewis to grow a pair of balls, Nelson healthy all year, Pietrus to play like he did in 08/09, Bass some minutes...we're fine. We had less work to do than any other team. S

scutch11
07-30-2010, 04:11 PM
Last thing I'll say before I leave work.

Mike is criticizing us for not making a move to "put us over the top" and therefore we are off-season losers. Only one team needed to make less of a move to be put "over the top" than Orlando, and that's LA. Entering the off-season, we were closer to being a championship caliber team than every team but LA. So, saying that we didn't make a move to "put us over the top" is funny to me, since we have far less work to do to get to that top. We didn't need to make a big splash any more than 28 other teams in the league. Otis' plan all along was just to make small tweaks.

Otis, SVG, RDV and BDV all think that the team they have built is good enough to get it done. Last season, a lot of guys sucked. Plain and simple. If we get Carter to shoot 45%, Lewis to grow a pair of balls, Nelson healthy all year, Pietrus to play like he did in 08/09, Bass some minutes...we're fine. We had less work to do than any other team. S

very true...and btw i love fashawn in the sig

ManRam
07-30-2010, 04:12 PM
im not baiting let me get to my point, the point is, orlando hasnt done enough, if they have on a title and stayed the same i would say thy had a good off season, but they havnt won but didnt do anything to put them over the hill

Riddle me this.

What did the 89-90 Bulls do after that season (a season the lost in the ECF) that falls in the category of being "put over the hill". The won an NBA Finals the next season, with the same roster. This is a team that lost in the ECF twice in a row (kinda like us, we actually made the Finals), did NOTHING in the off-season, and was miraculously over the hill. Their top 8 scorers remained the same (I believe).

When you are so close, you don't need to get a CP3, you just need to make the small changes, demand the most from your players, and you can make the jump. Carter sucked last year. Lewis sucked last year. Dwight wasn't where he needs to be. Nelson sucked most of the season. Pietrus was useless. Really only JJ had a great year. Get everyone maximizing their potential, and we are still as good as anyone in the league,

mikealike305
07-30-2010, 04:15 PM
Last thing I'll say before I leave work.

Mike is criticizing us for not making a move to "put us over the top" and therefore we are off-season losers. Only one team needed to make less of a move to be put "over the top" than Orlando, and that's LA. Entering the off-season, we were closer to being a championship caliber team than every team but LA. So, saying that we didn't make a move to "put us over the top" is funny to me, since we have far less work to do to get to that top. We didn't need to make a big splash any more than 28 other teams in the league. Otis' plan all along was just to make small tweaks.

Otis, SVG, RDV and BDV all think that the team they have built is good enough to get it done. Last season, a lot of guys sucked. Plain and simple. If we get Carter to shoot 45%, Lewis to grow a pair of balls, Nelson healthy all year, Pietrus to play like he did in 08/09, Bass some minutes...we're fine. We had less work to do than any other team. S

so your are a boston and orlando fan from pitt? just a question dont mean it in an ***** way
all im saying is orlando in a contender and a top 5 team but until they add one more small piece they will stay JUST a contender, they wont beat Miami, they wont beat L.A, they wont beat Boston and with NY and Chi getting up there they wont beat them until they add something... im not saying they cant do it cuz i feel they are a great team, im just saying the fact that melo hasnt signed that extention and we might see him in NY, they are missing something to beat theses stacked teams for a ring

mikealike305
07-30-2010, 04:16 PM
Riddle me this.

What did the 89-90 Bulls do after that season (a season the lost in the ECF) that falls in the category of being "put over the hill". The won an NBA Finals the next season, with the same roster. This is a team that lost in the ECF twice in a row (kinda like us, we actually made the Finals), did NOTHING in the off-season, and was miraculously over the hill. Their top 8 scorers remained the same (I believe).

When you are so close, you don't need to get a CP3, you just need to make the small changes, demand the most from your players, and you can make the jump. Carter sucked last year. Lewis sucked last year. Dwight wasn't where he needs to be. Nelson sucked most of the season. Pietrus was useless. Really only JJ had a great year. Get everyone maximizing their potential, and we are still as good as anyone in the league,

i never said they needed an allstar.... i said they are missing something

J4KOP99
07-30-2010, 04:20 PM
Riddle me this.

What did the 89-90 Bulls do after that season (a season the lost in the ECF) that falls in the category of being "put over the hill". The won an NBA Finals the next season, with the same roster. This is a team that lost in the ECF twice in a row (kinda like us, we actually made the Finals), did NOTHING in the off-season, and was miraculously over the hill. Their top 8 scorers remained the same (I believe).

When you are so close, you don't need to get a CP3, you just need to make the small changes, demand the most from your players, and you can make the jump. Carter sucked last year. Lewis sucked last year. Dwight wasn't where he needs to be. Nelson sucked most of the season. Pietrus was useless. Really only JJ had a great year. Get everyone maximizing their potential, and we are still as good as anyone in the league,

How can you compare that to orlando?

In the Bulls case, the other teams were getting old. Lakers were old, Pistons were getting old, Celtics were getting old.

Orlando is the same team, the Lakers are not old and they got better. The Heat are not old and they improved drastically. The Celtics are older, but they got better. Mavs got better. Bulls got better...


Not a fair comparison at all.


The Bulls main compitition when they were losing was to older more-veteran teams.

haggis
07-30-2010, 04:21 PM
Riddle me this.

What did the 89-90 Bulls do after that season (a season the lost in the ECF) that falls in the category of being "put over the hill". The won an NBA Finals the next season, with the same roster. This is a team that lost in the ECF twice in a row (kinda like us, we actually made the Finals), did NOTHING in the off-season, and was miraculously over the hill. Their top 8 scorers remained the same (I believe).

When you are so close, you don't need to get a CP3, you just need to make the small changes, demand the most from your players, and you can make the jump. Carter sucked last year. Lewis sucked last year. Dwight wasn't where he needs to be. Nelson sucked most of the season. Pietrus was useless. Really only JJ had a great year. Get everyone maximizing their potential, and we are still as good as anyone in the league,

I completely agree with this. I'm not a Magic fan, but other than Boston, the Magic were the closest team to get to a championship. They already have the pieces in place, now its about maximizing the talent they have. They didn't need to make a big splash in the offseason, just work from within, and they have done so.

Avenged
07-30-2010, 04:23 PM
so your are a boston and orlando fan from pitt? just a question dont mean it in an ***** way
all im saying is orlando in a contender and a top 5 team but until they add one more small piece they will stay JUST a contender, they wont beat Miami, they wont beat L.A, they wont beat Boston and with NY and Chi getting up there they wont beat them until they add something... im not saying they cant do it cuz i feel they are a great team, im just saying the fact that melo hasnt signed that extention and we might see him in NY, they are missing something to beat theses stacked teams for a ring

They certainly are missing one more piece to win the championship but stop underrating the Magic. NY and Chicago will not beat the Magic in the playoffs. The Bulls have improved but lets not forget the team Orlando has around them and the player in the paint they have.

What Manrammer was getting at is, the Magic didn't have to add any major players. They're already a great team that only had to do some minor adjustments in which they did. Teams like L.A, Orlando, and Boston didn't really have to go out in Free Agency and grab all the star players available.

Anyways, since the Magic are a top 5 team, how do you have 5 other teams beating them? I'm not attacking you, but every season the Magic go under the radar when their playing impressive basketball and sweeping teams, like this past postseason.

junion
07-30-2010, 04:24 PM
if you make it to the finals, you're a great team... period.

J4KOP99
07-30-2010, 04:25 PM
I completely agree with this. I'm not a Magic fan, but other than Boston, the Magic were the closest team to get to a championship. They already have the pieces in place, now its about maximizing the talent they have. They didn't need to make a big splash in the offseason, just work from within, and they have done so.

This was last year.

Did the Miami Heat have Dwayne Wade, LeBron James and Chris Bosh last year?


The only thing that is the same as last year is the Orlando Magic roster.

mikealike305
07-30-2010, 04:28 PM
They certainly are missing one more piece to win the championship but stop underrating the Magic. NY and Chicago will not beat the Magic in the playoffs. The Bulls have improved but lets not forget the team Orlando has around them and the player in the paint they have.

What Manrammer was getting at is, the Magic didn't have to add any major players. They're already a great team that only had to do some minor adjustments in which they did. Teams like L.A, Orlando, and Boston didn't really have to go out in Free Agency and grab all the star players available.

Anyways, since the Magic are a top 5 team, how do you have 5 other teams beating them? I'm not attacking you, but every season the Magic go under the radar when their playing impressive basketball and sweeping teams, like this past postseason.

i never said the needed an all star, i guess what im saying is orlando is a great team, but they will stay just a great team with out a ring until they do something, right now i think L.A, Boston, Miami (in order) are better, and if NY and Chi make a couple more moves they can (note i said can not will) be better to

Avenged
07-30-2010, 04:29 PM
if you make it to the finals, you're a great team... period.

Not really, at least not under every circumstance.

With this Orlando team though, I think it's fair to say you're correct.

The Magic are still a great team, they know each other well, and have chemistry playing together which works to their advantage.

But like most posters in here are saying, they do need 1 more piece to win it all especially how other teams improved. But either way, the Magic are still very good, going under the radar, but it won't be a "shock" if they make the Finals or win the title.

Avenged
07-30-2010, 04:33 PM
i never said the needed an all star, i guess what im saying is orlando is a great team, but they will stay just a great team with out a ring until they do something, right now i think L.A, Boston, Miami (in order) are better, and if NY and Chi make a couple more moves they can (note i said can not will) be better to

Yeah, I agree. This team does need another player to get them over the top but it isn't a guarantee the Lakers or Heat even make the Finals, which leaves an opportunity open for the Magic. There are teams out West who could eliminate the Lakers in the playoffs and there are elite teams out East, in which any one of them could represent the East in the Finals.

2 years ago for example, if KG was healthy, you have to assume they would have made the Finals but he wasn't which left the window open for the Magic. They could win it all with this team they have together, but either way, they still need that 1 player to remove all doubt.

mikealike305
07-30-2010, 04:38 PM
Yeah, I agree. This team does need another player to get them over the top but it isn't a guarantee the Lakers or Heat even make the Finals, which leaves an opportunity open for the Magic. There are teams out West who could eliminate the Lakers in the playoffs and there are elite teams out East, in which any one of them could represent the East in the Finals.

2 years ago for example, if KG was healthy, you have to assume they would have made the Finals but he wasn't which left the window open for the Magic. They could win it all with this team they have together, but either way, they still need that 1 player to remove all doubt.

exactly, and i think u just helped make my point, they are just hoping L.A gets beat? they are just hoping they can beat MIa? i think as a NBA team you need to do w.e it takes to win, i just feel with all the moves gong on in the NBA right now they should of steped up and made a move also, maybe not an allstar, but a move more than Q-rich even tho i think that was a good pick up for them

ManRam
07-30-2010, 04:39 PM
How can you compare that to orlando?

In the Bulls case, the other teams were getting old. Lakers were old, Pistons were getting old, Celtics were getting old.

Orlando is the same team, the Lakers are not old and they got better. The Heat are not old and they improved drastically. The Celtics are older, but they got better. Mavs got better. Bulls got better...


Not a fair comparison at all.


The Bulls main compitition when they were losing was to older more-veteran teams.

I was going to make a disclaimer about how no one should be compared to the Bulls. However, Cleveland and Boston, our biggest ECF competition may both no longer be that biggest competition (Boston still has a shot or two left in them).

My only point was, saying that we NEED a big piece is something we're going to have to wait and see about. If Miami somehow blows it, I'd put all the money in the world on us making the Finals again. And you never know what can happen. We played LA a lot closer in 09 than the 4-1 result shows. A few bad TOs and missed layups go the other way, and we're in that series. That's a lot of ifs...but who knows.

Otis has assembled the team he thinks can win, and in Otis I trust.

DeyAce
07-30-2010, 04:41 PM
They are a good regular season team, that's it.

ManRam
07-30-2010, 04:44 PM
Yeah, I agree. This team does need another player to get them over the top but it isn't a guarantee the Lakers or Heat even make the Finals, which leaves an opportunity open for the Magic. There are teams out West who could eliminate the Lakers in the playoffs and there are elite teams out East, in which any one of them could represent the East in the Finals.

2 years ago for example, if KG was healthy, you have to assume they would have made the Finals but he wasn't which left the window open for the Magic. They could win it all with this team they have together, but either way, they still need that 1 player to remove all doubt.

So do you agree or not ;) Does Orlando NEED another piece, or could they still win with what they have. Either they do, or they don't. But I get your point, thing could fall into place perfectly for us...

I think, obviously, another piece wouldn't hurt, but I also think that if Vince and Lewis have bounceback seasons, that I'd consider that another piece. Since Vince was basically garbage 90% of the time last year, if he plays like Vince Carter (or at least shoots like 45%), that's basically another big off-season acquisition.


so your are a boston and orlando fan from pitt? just a question dont mean it in an ***** way
all im saying is orlando in a contender and a top 5 team but until they add one more small piece they will stay JUST a contender, they wont beat Miami, they wont beat L.A, they wont beat Boston and with NY and Chi getting up there they wont beat them until they add something... im not saying they cant do it cuz i feel they are a great team, im just saying the fact that melo hasnt signed that extention and we might see him in NY, they are missing something to beat theses stacked teams for a ring

What does where I'm from (I'm not "FROM" Pittsburgh, I go to college here) have anything to do with anything.

When you say it like that, I have no problem with that logic. You just were a TON more aggressive and assertive earlier.

And you really think New York is better than Orlando? Hahaha. Let's wait until Melo signs or doesn't. Either way, he isn't going to be in NY this season.

bbcmillionaire
07-30-2010, 04:46 PM
Lol I hope your not a heat fan

ManRam
07-30-2010, 04:46 PM
They are a good regular season team, that's it.

So getting to the Finals and the ECF in consecutive years isn't doing well in the playoffs? So only LA is a team worth even considering has a chance to win the Finals, because only they've "done well in the playoffs"? Only they've done better than us in the playoffs the last two years...so that must be what you're getting at. Right?

I just don't like this logic.

Avenged
07-30-2010, 04:46 PM
exactly, and i think u just helped make my point, they are just hoping L.A gets beat? they are just hoping they can beat MIa? i think as a NBA team you need to do w.e it takes to win, i just feel with all the moves gong on in the NBA right now they should of steped up and made a move also, maybe not an allstar, but a move more than Q-rich even tho i think that was a good pick up for them

Unfortunately, not every team can go out and get whomever they want.

They don't have to hope, they're still a good team and can take on anyone themselves. Theres about 4-5 different teams whom can end up in the Finals, there's no absolute favorite. Either way, the offseason is still going on, and the trade deadline isn't due in a long time.

No elite team is just going to stand pat and watch the Lakers and Heat go at it year after year.

mikealike305
07-30-2010, 04:46 PM
So do you agree or not ;) Does Orlando NEED another piece, or could they still win with what they have. Either they do, or they don't. But I get your point, thing could fall into place perfectly for us...

I think, obviously, another piece wouldn't hurt, but I also think that if Vince and Lewis have bounceback seasons, that I'd consider that another piece. Since Vince was basically garbage 90% of the time last year, if he plays like Vince Carter (or at least shoots like 45%), that's basically another big off-season acquisition.



What does where I'm from (I'm not "FROM" Pittsburgh, I go to college here) have anything to do with anything.

When you say it like that, I have no problem with that logic. You just were a TON more aggressive and assertive earlier.

And you really think New York is better than Orlando? Hahaha. Let's wait until Melo signs or doesn't. Either way, he isn't going to be in NY this season.

just asking what team u like, just a question i guess i shouldnt have asked

no i dont think NY is better than orlando.... far from it... im saying with a couple moves they could be

HakeemTheDream
07-30-2010, 04:48 PM
They didn't get that far by default, they got that far because no one can defend Dwight without double team help except for Perkins and Bynum.

mikealike305
07-30-2010, 04:49 PM
and manny i was "agressive" cuz that orlando fan called me a bandwagon fan cuz i didnt agree with him, im calm now cuz im talking to smart ppl with smart answers

haggis
07-30-2010, 04:50 PM
They didn't get that far by default, they got that far because no one can defend Dwight without double team help except for Perkins and Bynum.

this. and that's why they always need to be in the conversation as long as dwight is healthy

Avenged
07-30-2010, 04:52 PM
So do you agree or not ;) Does Orlando NEED another piece, or could they still win with what they have. Either they do, or they don't. But I get your point, thing could fall into place perfectly for us...

I think, obviously, another piece wouldn't hurt, but I also think that if Vince and Lewis have bounceback seasons, that I'd consider that another piece. Since Vince was basically garbage 90% of the time last year, if he plays like Vince Carter (or at least shoots like 45%), that's basically another big off-season acquisition.

I think they could use another player, of course, every team could. But I also believe the Magic are good enough to win it all with the team they have together.

I mean, people are saying the Bulls are going to be great this season but they're pretty much basing it off of Rose's development. If he doesn't develop to the player every Bull fan hopes for, the Bulls don't look that great.

The same thing with the Celtics, if Rondo had not developed last season, they probably wouldn't have been in the Finals seeing as how he carried them.

A team like OKC, everyone is saying they could upset the Lakers but that's only if Westbrook continues to develop because they aren't going to beat the Lakers with 1 star.

So pretty much the majority are basing success off of potential, in which you can do the same for the Magic. If Dwight develops his offense as is expected, who's to say they can't go all the way?

ManRam
07-30-2010, 04:56 PM
I think they could use another player, of course, every team could. But I also believe the Magic are good enough to win it all with the team they have together.

I mean, people are saying the Bulls are going to be great this season but they're pretty much basing it off of Rose's development. If he doesn't develop to the player every Bull fan hopes for, the Bulls don't look like that great.

The same thing with the Celtics, if Rondo had not developed last season, they probably wouldn't have been in the Finals seeing as how he carried them.

A team like OKC, everyone is saying they could upset the Lakers but that's only if Westbrook continues to develop because they aren't going to beat the Lakers with 1 star.

So pretty much the majority are basing success off of potential, in which you can do the same for the Magic. If Dwight develops his offense as is expected, who's to say they can't go all the way?

I guess it's potential people are basing everything off of. It sure as hell isn't "what have you done for me lately", because no team besides LA has done more lately than Orlando.

It will, and always will, come down to Dwight. Can he continue to progress. He showed some serious potential in the regular season, but was still inconsistent in the playoffs. Vince and Lewis bouncing back is big too. They play like they did in 08-09, we're a much improve team, and maybe that's all we need to be put "over the top". Nelson also might be the biggest x-factor as well. He balls like he can ball...we might be damn near unstoppable if Howard, Lewis and Carter show up. If he doesn't, we're toast.

A lot of ifs. I just think completely writing us off is foolish. But that's how I'm sure Orlando would love it to be.

#1giant fanatic
07-30-2010, 05:09 PM
As a laker fan i do think the magic team is very good. They will be way better then the miami heat who are very over rated with the weakest bench in the nba...lakers vs magic nba finals

Public Enemy #1
07-30-2010, 05:11 PM
You just realized the Magic are overrated? lol