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View Full Version : Official 'DON'T TRADE Bautista' thread



Lawtonis
07-29-2010, 10:03 AM
I don't belive that his success this season and September of last year is a fluke ( 10 hr's last sept). Jose just hits ropes over the wall, hard line shots unlike alot of other HR hitters.

Also his defense (much debated) is very .... very good. Solid range and what he does get to he catches, .985 feilding %, 9 assists and 2 errors in the outfeild is testement to that.


His versatility is great for the team as well. With Johny Mac being able to play all the infeild pos. and Jose B. able to play all the OF ( including CF) and 3b. We have 2 guys who can cover the feild when guys need a day off. Which is invaluable to a Manager when making a lineup and to keep a similar lineup day-day.

His price tag will likely jump from 2.4 M to around 6M give or take 1M next season after arbitration. But with his recent comment saying he likes Toronto, they might be able to sign him for 5M per before arbitration.


All an all, I like the player. Unless we can get someone to over pay for him. I.E.- 1 A+ spec and 2 mid level .... I see no reason to sell high on a guy who I truly belive has turned to corner in his carrer............

DiPasquale7
07-29-2010, 10:08 AM
I love me some Jose B. Lock him up unless someone goes nuts and offers a top prospect (Philly, I'm looking in your direction for Domonic Brown)

nstojic
07-29-2010, 10:10 AM
he's doing great things but i don't see him in the long-term plans, thus, sell high

ChongInc.
07-29-2010, 10:57 AM
Sell motha ****as!

scottythegreat1
07-29-2010, 10:57 AM
Trade him to the Yankees....Why not??

Think about it, he's got the most home runs in the MLB right now, and Im sure that when he can declare free agency, the Yankees will want him because anyone that can hit 40 Home Runs qualifies to be a Yankee.

So he will end up there anyways, so lets suck out Jesus Montero and 3 other prospects for him instead of getting a type A prospect in the draft for him.

I like what Bautista is doing, but now that he is a legitimate power hitter, do you really think he will ask for less than 4 years and 60 million once he declares free agency???

Bjaxn45
07-29-2010, 11:04 AM
Trade him to the Yankees....Why not??


So he will end up there anyways, so lets suck out Jesus Montero and 3 other prospects for him instead of getting a type A prospect in the draft for him.

I like what Bautista is doing, but now that he is a legitimate power hitter, do you really think he will ask for less than 4 years and 60 million once he declares free agency???

Lol if we could get Montero for him we'd be all over it immediatley. If he repeats his performance or comes close next year; with whoever he plays for then maybe he asks for something in that range maybe slightly less.

My arguement is I don't think teams are taking him that seriously at this point. Their serious about the player but not what they'd have to give up. I'm with AA, get an ELITE prospect + or walk away. I'm fine paying this guy 6-7 mil next season to play 3rd/RF

BlueJayCarter
07-29-2010, 11:24 AM
As we said earlier. If someone, Phillies are looking intently at Jose Bautista scouted his last 8 of 9 games, offers an excellent package of prospects we should trade Jose.

However, if no one offers a good package we keep him for say, three years. If he puts up the same power numbers excellent, if he goes back to his average between 15-20 HRs is good and being a good club house leader playing multiple positions would still be good to have on our club.

CheeznWingz
07-29-2010, 11:42 AM
Keep him. The only way I let him go if we get a deal for a legit starting pitcher. We need an ace, no questions asked. I'm not saying that our pitching has been bad this year. I just think that if we let the HR leader leave for just a handfull of prospects than don't bother.

BlueJayCarter
07-29-2010, 11:58 AM
Keep him. The only way I let him go if we get a deal for a legit starting pitcher. We need an ace, no questions asked. I'm not saying that our pitching has been bad this year. I just think that if we let the HR leader leave for just a handfull of prospects than don't bother.

We are not contending this year. And probably not next year. We do not need a legit starting pitcher, or ace. What would we be getting them for, to fill the stands until they hit free agency and we have to go the prospect route again? We have four excellent pitchers in Morrow, Romero, Marcum and Cecil, we need a fifth starter (rookie or veteran pitcher in FA next year) but we do not need a starting pitcher (ace).

Big Hurt
07-29-2010, 12:04 PM
Keep him.
I love to watch him play.
Love to watch him play defense.
100% all the time, never slacks.
He represents the team well, is the best HR hitter in all of baseball right now and is a Blue Jay.
He adds a legitimacy to the team. It will be more attractive to play for the Blue Jays with the HR champ on board.
He is a reason to go to the ballpark or turn them on to watch them on the tube.
I like him and I do not want to trade him for suspects...I mean prospects. Do you really think we would get a future HR champ back in return???

Dillon.Sandhu
07-29-2010, 12:07 PM
Lock Him Up For 6 Years 60 Mil

nstojic
07-29-2010, 12:09 PM
i love how, when jp got this guy, everyone was like 'whatever'...and when jp re-signed the guy, people were like 'outrage, this bum hasn't earned that money' and now, 'he adds legitimacy to the team'

nstojic
07-29-2010, 12:10 PM
Lock Him Up For 6 Years 60 Mil

that's a real smart move for a rebuilding ballclub that has its 'roughest' days ahead of it...

BlueJayCarter
07-29-2010, 12:24 PM
Lock Him Up For 6 Years 60 Mil

Stupid very stupid move. I haven't seen you post here before, you probably aren't even a Blue Jay fan.

B2theRY
07-29-2010, 12:27 PM
Keep him. The only way I let him go if we get a deal for a legit starting pitcher. We need an ace, no questions asked. I'm not saying that our pitching has been bad this year. I just think that if we let the HR leader leave for just a handfull of prospects than don't bother.

Starting Pitching?? really?

The only thing the Jays truly have are starters.. I have no problem with the starting five of

marcum
cecil
morrow
romero
and drabek

next season.

you have to assume all of them will be better next year (and drabek is the wildcard)

the jays need REAL hitters.. guys who can hit better than .250
the two best jays hitters (minus bautista's homers) are Buck and Fred Lewis
they have been the most consistent since their first games.

if they trade bautista and im on record for doing so... get yourself a guy who can hit. I do not care what position. 3B would be Ideal but they may not get that.

B2theRY
07-29-2010, 12:28 PM
the jays are a losing team right now
bring in guys who are use to winning..

Bautista has never ever EVER been on a winning team.

1hardcore
07-29-2010, 12:41 PM
You know what i'm on the fence.....



I think if bautista stays then the fans will keep coming...... if not then the jays can get some blue chips in return ..... but then again Bautista wants to stay. .............

DiPasquale7
07-29-2010, 12:42 PM
I don't think you'll get fair value for him. People keep emphasizing one year wonder.. If he's not and puts up 30+ HRs next season, we'd look really stupid

mkcavy
07-29-2010, 12:55 PM
I like Bautista. I think he has value on any team and from what I can tell he seems like a character guy in the clubhouse.

That said, if AA can get the package he wants for him (which I assume is two top prospects with controllable contracts) I see no reason for the team to hold on to him. This team is in a serious rebuilding mode, with 2012 or 2013 as targets for competiting in the AL East. Bautista doesn't fit into that plan, but two prospects would.

I still have serious doubts that any team will jump on AA's requests, and will offer a lot less for him. But I think AA is smart enough to realize he doesn't have to trade Bautista, so if he doesn't get his asking price, just keep him for one more year.

nstojic
07-29-2010, 01:05 PM
Bautista represents a dilemma for the Jays and for clubs that covet him. In six previous seasons, he did nothing to suggest he might hit 30 homers and drive in 75 runs in two-thirds of a season. Some critics say his track record does not lie, that this is all a fluke, that next year he is likely to revert to the career .238 hitter with the .729 on-base-plus-slugging percentage that started this season as Toronto’s leadoff hitter, for heaven’s sake.

The Jays are weighing offers at the end of a month in which Bautista has hit .330 with 10 homers and 25 RBIs, raising his average from .228 to .254 entering Wednesday night’s game. A series of tricky questions form the context of trade talks.

If they deal Bautista now, when his value is higher than ever, can the Jays reasonably expect a fair return? Do they keep him and offer him arbitration after the season, when he might command a wage of US$8-million or more? Do they refuse to offer him arbitration and let him go elsewhere, with no compensation? Do they invest in a two- or three-year contract and make him a cornerstone of their rebuilding project?

And if he does stay, where does he fit in the plans of a club rebuilding around youth? It figures the Jays just might be able to find a spot for a home-run king, but what if he turns out to be a one-season wonder?

Bautista, 29, insists his transformation from banjo hitter to slugger is no fluke. With persistent guidance last summer of manager Cito Gaston and hitting coach Dwayne Murphy, he says he finally learned to start his swing earlier and unleash his latent power.

His swing itself has not changed, he said, and he is not trying to hit home runs.

“I’ve always tried to hit the ball as hard as I can. People say I have a violent swing, and I’m sure it looks like that. That’s just my tempo. That’s just the speed I work at.

“I finally found a way, with getting started earlier, to be able to have that hard, all-out swing and still be able to have good timing.”

The numbers are jarring. He is hitting a home run every 11.8 at-bats. Of his fly balls, 20% are homers, almost twice his career average. He has 90 hits; 60% have gone for extra bases. He is among the American League leaders in walks with 57. His nine assists rank him first among AL outfielders.

Bautista says he typically looks for fastballs. But he changed his plan in his last at-bat Tuesday after Alfredo Simon started him off with two splitters for called strikes.

“I decided to start looking for breaking balls after he threw me the first two and I couldn’t pick them up,” he said.

Then, with the count 2-2, he picked one up. It landed in the seats beyond left-centre field.

And let us not forget The Throw. It was a low-flying laser beam that arrived at third base on the fly, cutting down Nick Markakis after a sacrifice fly and so stunning players on both sides that everyone started leaving the field because they thought there were three outs.

http://www.nationalpost.com/sports/Toronto+Jose+Bautista+good+problem+have/3334501/story.html

Bjaxn45
07-29-2010, 01:50 PM
the jays are a losing team right now
bring in guys who are use to winning..

Bautista has never ever EVER been on a winning team.

They are 4 games over .500 right now:eyebrow: And they aren't a losing team, they are consistantly the most mediocre/average team in the league.

But really that's irrelevant. Wanna go out and get Melky Cabrera because he has played on many winning teams?

ChongInc.
07-29-2010, 02:03 PM
Nice rule 5 puck up j.p.

BlueJayFanDan
07-29-2010, 02:46 PM
I still say trade him. We have a lot of guys who can hit for power on this team plus more who could be up in the near future such as Wallace and Arencibia. I think we need to try and get some guys who know how to get on base. Escobar was a good start. Now someone else who can get on base would be nice. I'm pretty sure we lead the league in solo HR's right now which is kind of annoying. We need to surround our power with OBP.

B2theRY
07-29-2010, 02:56 PM
They are 4 games over .500 right now:eyebrow: And they aren't a losing team, they are consistantly the most mediocre/average team in the league.

But really that's irrelevant. Wanna go out and get Melky Cabrera because he has played on many winning teams?

Thats not what i was saying. Lets be honest as well... 500 in baseball is pretty ****ing ****. With the way they are hitting homers and the starting staff has been pitching youre content with their .500 record?

I like Hill and Lind but both had "career" years last season when the season meant nothing... Bautista is having a "career" year in a losing season..

I always believe if youre a losing team for many many many years everyone should be available in trades. No one should ever be untouchable.. yes he has 30 homers, yes he leads the majors in homers

IF he is so fantastic and so damn good why is it the Jays cant get 1 nibble on the guy? We as fans of teams always overvalue players playing on our fave teams.

Is Bautista having a fluke year or has he finally become a Major League player? - we wont know till next season

am i willing to lose out on possibly a good prospect or trade to take that chance on him.... NO!


as for the melky comparison im not saying you trade for a guy just becuases he played on winning teams as a back up.. (a la adam morrison) but when you constantly lose you always find ways to lose, when you are use to winning you will always find a way to win the game.

im not content with 4 games over 500 sorry. thats not a winning team. well technically it is but thats not getting you into the playoffs.

im also not content wtih .230-250 hitters.

DiPasquale7
07-29-2010, 03:14 PM
IF he is so fantastic and so damn good why is it the Jays cant get 1 nibble on the guy? We as fans of teams always overvalue players playing on our fave teams.

You think we are overvaluing the number 1 HR hitter in the league? We get the odd player who has a great season and people like you come in and always try and find a problem with it or a reason why it wont continue. News Flash: It's August and he hasn't come back down to earth. He is maintaining and actually getting better as the season continues. He could very well play this well next season. As for the nameless prospect you are hoping for in return. He hasn't proven anything and for all we know may never crack this big leagues. We have a guy who has 30 HR's just past the half way mark in the season with no signs of slowing down and you want to get rid of him for scrubs? I think you are completely undervaluing him.



Is Bautista having a fluke year or has he finally become a Major League player? - we wont know till next season




am i willing to lose out on possibly a good prospect or trade to take that chance on him.... NO!

Hmm.. Would I rather take a chance on the guy who has proven he can succeed at the big league level or the prospect who hasnt? You prefer the odds of the unproven commodity over the HR leader in the MLB? I guess we value players differently... Now if it's a top 5 or 10 prospect in baseball.. You pull the trigger.. Other wise I'd be way more inclined to keep him and see how it pans out next season..



im also not content wtih .230-250 hitters.

Really? That's too bad.. So you wouldn't be content with say.. Prince Fielder...Carlos Pena.. David Ortiz.. Mark Texiera.. They're all hitting in that range.. And guess what?!?! Bautista has more HRs and RBI's then all of them.. Am I saying I'd necessarily take him over them.. No.. But I'm saying if the guys on pace to hit 40+ HRs with 110+ RBI's.. I'm more then willing to sacrifice a bit of BA.. Especially when he's top 10 in walks and has a decent OBP.

1hardcore
07-29-2010, 03:21 PM
Thats not what i was saying. Lets be honest as well... 500 in baseball is pretty ****ing ****. With the way they are hitting homers and the starting staff has been pitching youre content with their .500 record?

I like Hill and Lind but both had "career" years last season when the season meant nothing... Bautista is having a "career" year in a losing season..

I always believe if youre a losing team for many many many years everyone should be available in trades. No one should ever be untouchable.. yes he has 30 homers, yes he leads the majors in homers

IF he is so fantastic and so damn good why is it the Jays cant get 1 nibble on the guy? We as fans of teams always overvalue players playing on our fave teams.

Is Bautista having a fluke year or has he finally become a Major League player? - we wont know till next season

am i willing to lose out on possibly a good prospect or trade to take that chance on him.... NO!


as for the melky comparison im not saying you trade for a guy just becuases he played on winning teams as a back up.. (a la adam morrison) but when you constantly lose you always find ways to lose, when you are use to winning you will always find a way to win the game.

im not content with 4 games over 500 sorry. thats not a winning team. well technically it is but thats not getting you into the playoffs.

im also not content wtih .230-250 hitters.

95 wins will get the jays in the playoffs

statquo
07-29-2010, 04:40 PM
Lock Him Up For 6 Years 60 Mil

:facepalm:

mkcavy
07-29-2010, 04:42 PM
Really? That's too bad.. So you wouldn't be content with say.. Prince Fielder...Carlos Pena.. David Ortiz.. Mark Texiera.. They're all hitting in that range.. And guess what?!?! Bautista has more HRs and RBI's then all of them..

There's a huge difference between a CAREER .240 hitter and those players you listed above. For one, every guy you listed had HUGE trade value; however, our career .240 hitter, for as much as we love him, has very little in comparison.

500 Level
07-29-2010, 05:10 PM
I don't necessarily agree with either of those options. I don't think anyone thinks he's legit, thats why you don't sell him. Why we think we have some inside information and that GM's will give up top prospects for him is nieve. We need to hang onto him until next season and hopefully he can continue too produce, and THEN we can deal him when he's proven it's not a fluke. But for now, he's worth more to us, than to others.

Jays Claw
07-29-2010, 07:43 PM
I'd really like it if the Blue Jays sell high on him and bring in needed pieces. They need a future third baseman and better options in the outfield.

H-MYK
07-29-2010, 08:10 PM
I'd say keep him.

FlakeyFool
07-29-2010, 09:00 PM
trade him

Abdul Mutalib
07-29-2010, 09:04 PM
"The wind whispered "Bautista" in Washington last night and Strasburgs shoulder tightened up and he went on the DL."
"Tornadoes are not mother nature, they are the wind gust from Jose Bautista swinging his bat! "
"Jose Bautista is so awesome that Justin Bieber mentions him in a Tweet just to gain followers."
"Sportsnet had to create a new channel because the previous 4 couldn't all contain the power of Jose Bautista."
"Jose Bautista's paperboy in the off-season is Nick Swisher...and Bautista doesn't even tip him. "
"Jose Bautista once struck a pitcher out while at bat and then offered him 72 virgins as condolence."
" Strasburg missed his start on Monday cuz even he wanted to pitch around Bautista. "
"Theres no more 1st,2nd or 3rd base in Relationships anymore its now called Going Bautista! "A single hair from Jose Bautista's beard could cure male pattern baldness forever. "
"Jose Bautista is so strong when he tried to inject steroids the needle went "**** THAT!""
"Usher wrote the song "OMG" in inspiration of Jose Bautista."
"The MLB is now called Major League Bautista because no one is in Jose Bautistas League."
"Scientists prove there is no global warming, it was just Jose Bautista warming up his arm."

donatolla
07-29-2010, 09:43 PM
The only reason you don't trade him is because:

- there are better players on the market
- all other GM's see this year as a fluke
- trading Bautista won't see much value in return

nstojic
07-29-2010, 11:20 PM
The only reason you don't trade him is because:


- trading Bautista won't see much value in return

YOU can't possibly know this... none of us can...

donatolla
07-29-2010, 11:57 PM
YOU can't possibly know this... none of us can...

It's called an "educated guess" or, if you prefer, "speculation." Google around and you'll find a lot of other baseball minds the feel the same way.

Regardless, it is reasonable to assume that the return won't overwhelm - unless another GM is so smitten with his HR's that they overpay. Even this very second, there is much more evidence that Bautista is very average. Smart GM's in need of offense don't seek that when guys like Dunn or Berkman are available.

nstojic
07-30-2010, 12:05 AM
^^ again, you can't know this and 'educated' and 'speculation' have no place in the same sentence... that's why there's buttloads of mlb blogs from nobodies that we don't post here as sources on mlb news and rumor... cause anyone with an internet connection suddenly becomes an educated guesser who cooks up speculation out of his/her *** for 'hits'...

StayOnBoard
07-30-2010, 12:24 AM
^^ again, you can't know this and 'educated' and 'speculation' have no place in the same sentence... that's why there's buttloads of mlb blogs from nobodies that we don't post here as sources on mlb news and rumor... cause anyone with an internet connection suddenly becomes an educated guesser who cooks up speculation out of his/her *** for 'hits'...

hee hee hee... I like the ripped Milhouse :D

idrinkpepsi
07-30-2010, 12:42 AM
The only way I'd keep him is if he was making 6 million or less per year here they talked about 8 million a year on the Fan 590 today and I didn't like the idea of that. I say sell high on him and re-stock the farm somewhat.

Bjaxn45
07-30-2010, 01:25 AM
^^ again, you can't know this and 'educated' and 'speculation' have no place in the same sentence... that's why there's buttloads of mlb blogs from nobodies that we don't post here as sources on mlb news and rumor... cause anyone with an internet connection suddenly becomes an educated guesser who cooks up speculation out of his/her *** for 'hits'...

Well fine, let's not speculate but with guys out there like Fielder, Berkman, Hart, Worth, etc the market just isn't there for Bautista to get a max return. Some team would have to view him as a better addition to their team than most of the avaliable players which I would highly doubt.

A 6m salary next year is very reasonable for a guy who can play multiple positions at a high level.

nstojic
07-30-2010, 01:32 AM
^^ i think his agent will try for one big contract(4-5 yr deal, 7-8 per avg).... i'm not even talking a max return... a couple of good prospects, not elite guys... as in the Nady deal i've already cited....it gets you some more farm depth and it takes you out from an uncomfortable situation in the offseason when bautista's agent comes to you and says my client would like to start the talks at 4 yrs/30 mil... and now, you(AA) have to tell him to beat it and that jose's not worth that much with next to no track record... and you don't want to explain to your fans why you let him walk but didn't trade him when you had the chance and weren't going anywhere in the standings... or you sign him to that larger deal and in a couple of years, he's a very overpayed medicore player who's hard to move without eating that $$$ and he's blocking a youngster from coming up and playing everyday....

nithanyo
07-30-2010, 01:52 AM
Keep him.... unless we get an offer we cant refuse. We traded away Halladay. Noone is untouchable, some just cost alot more to touch. Bautista falls into that category

donatolla
07-31-2010, 12:07 PM
^^ again, you can't know this and 'educated' and 'speculation' have no place in the same sentence... that's why there's buttloads of mlb blogs from nobodies that we don't post here as sources on mlb news and rumor... cause anyone with an internet connection suddenly becomes an educated guesser who cooks up speculation out of his/her *** for 'hits'...

Just because you are choosing to be completely blind to facts that are easily available, doesn't mean that I'm not.

It is completely reasonable to see Bautista's season as a fluke. There is an established history to back it up. The only thing that refutes this is the number 31. It is also completely reasonable that smarter baseball people (i.e. GM's) will also understand this and won't trade for him. Especially considering the availability of better, established, bats on the market.

Someone may be willing to jump on the bandwagon - but why would you give up something valuable for a player that was a 4th or 5th outfielder until the last year?

wolverine
07-31-2010, 12:13 PM
Hey Donna did Jose Bautista sleep with your wife or something, you and your google searches are getting real old "jose will get you nothing in return" over and over we get it bud you dont like him and see him as a fluke
but most other people dont, after seeing him hit 41 home runs since last september, more elstablished bats sure but no other player in the game has hit more since that date and its not like its just a one month thing its going on one year now and that is starting to sound like a real deal not a fluke

StayOnBoard
07-31-2010, 12:18 PM
Hey Donna did Jose Bautista sleep with your wife or something, you and your google searches are getting real old "jose will get you nothing in return" over and over we get it bud you dont like him and see him as a fluke
but most other people dont, after seeing him hit 41 home runs since last september, more elstablished bats sure but no other player in the game has hit more since that date and its not like its just a one month thing its going on one year now and that is starting to sound like a real deal not a fluke

Have to agree... I was the biggiest skeptic with Bautista, even into June... but now - its past June, its past July(almost)... the guy is STILL ripping the ball better than anyone AND his average has skyrocketed.. He's no longer a .220 hitter or whatever he was... and could have a line of .275/40/120 if he continues his pace...

I don't expect him to hit 40 homers next year but this is certainly no fluke. He should be counted on for 25-30 homers a season and another dozen or so this year alone... teams know this - GMs know this too. Which is why ultimately I think he MAY get traded to the Giants today but we shall see... I just can't see the Blue Jays doing NOTHING at all. That'd be crazy IMO

donatolla
08-01-2010, 11:24 PM
Hey Donna did Jose Bautista sleep with your wife or something, you and your google searches are getting real old "jose will get you nothing in return" over and over we get it bud you dont like him and see him as a fluke
but most other people dont, after seeing him hit 41 home runs since last september, more elstablished bats sure but no other player in the game has hit more since that date and its not like its just a one month thing its going on one year now and that is starting to sound like a real deal not a fluke

Hi wolfie! It's kinda cute that you're so enamored with homeruns. But don't worry, soon you'll figure it out.

You know, as much as I would like to say that Bautista wasn't traded because I was right, I know that it isn't true. There are many, many reasons he's staying, of which future value is only one of them. Ultimately, the real answer will surface about this time next year. I do hope he proves me wrong (he is on fire right now).

Unfortunately, he needs a couple years at this level to shake the 'fluke' label. There is just too much data against him.