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Wade>You
07-28-2010, 01:34 PM
He had his own vision for the Raps and wanted to build the NBA's first all-foreign team so if they were ever a force in the NBA, he could be looked at as a pioneer.

The perception around the league is "no one wants to play in Toronto" (I don't think it should be like that), so I can see Colangelo's only hope was to bring in foreign talent and build the NBA's first international team. Foreign players don't care about playing for a popular NBA city as much as American players do.

He wants to be the first man in NBA (possibly sports) history to pull off an all international american pro sports team, but he blames Bosh for not making an effort to fit in (debatable); the dude is your best player and you don't even bring in pieces that compliment him.

That's my only real beef; a severely overrated GM who throws his franchise player under the bus for his failures while not acknowledging his real agenda.

Bosh was truly the square peg for the round hole that was Brian Colangelo's Raptors.

king4day
07-28-2010, 01:39 PM
He tried and it didn't work. He's not the only one.

Jonathan2323
07-28-2010, 01:40 PM
Colengelo should have traded Bosh when he had the chance to get some real players in return. He failed no doubt.

Wade>You
07-28-2010, 01:41 PM
Colengelo should have traded Bosh when he had the chance to get some real players in return. He failed no doubt.I do believe Miami would have traded the #2 pick in the draft (when it wasn't Michael Beasley) for Chris Bosh.

Colangelo laughed at that idea back then.

NO SOUP FOR YOU!

Ragun
07-28-2010, 01:43 PM
Colengelo should have traded Bosh when he had the chance to get some real players in return. He failed no doubt.

bosh got injured the day before the deadline, when the raps were the 5th seed.

this team was doing really good until bosh went down the first game back after the all-star break. and then he gets his face broken in like the 77th game of the season.

COOLbeans
07-28-2010, 01:44 PM
^^^ wow that sucks.. at the time, can you blame him? Weren't the Raptors supposed to be a playoff team for several years now? I kind of think the players and FO failed..

John Walls Era
07-28-2010, 01:45 PM
It definitely wasn't a bad move for Colangelo to not trade Bosh before the deadline last year. I believe the Raptors were on a huge run before the all-star break and had the 5th seed in the grasp and the 4th seed on their sights. Can't really blame him there.

mjt20mik
07-28-2010, 01:46 PM
^^^ wow that sucks.. at the time, can you blame him? Weren't the Raptors supposed to be a playoff team for several years now? I kind of think the players and FO failed..

Wouldn't blame the FO as much. We tried building around Bosh, it's just he's not the leader everyone thought he could be. I agree the FO had some fault, but different players and styles were added to the team, yet it didn't change anything.

That being said, I think Bosh is a solid 2nd or 3rd option. Doubt he could ever be a successful 1st option.

mjt20mik
07-28-2010, 01:50 PM
Pick up a newspaper or go to a website that covers NBA news before you post.

LOL. Go watch some of his interviews slick. He has blamed himself for the team doing poorly. Also read his note to the fans on the Raptors website. And he has only said "bad" things about Bosh. He has had altercations with Garbojosa and Hedo, but it wasn't anything bad, rather just health concerns.

ballpd05
07-28-2010, 01:51 PM
Colangelo went out and did everything he could. He had a solid team on paper, but you never really know how someone will mesh until they get on the court.

I was never a fan of bosh because i always thought he was soft, but it wouldn't surprise me seeing the downward spiral of the raptors season. Especially when you only need 1 game to beat out the bulls for the last playoff spot.

Wade>You
07-28-2010, 01:51 PM
Fact is, Colangelo wanted to build an all-foreign team in a city whose image in the NBA struggles for the wrong reasons.

He would be looked at as the savior of basketball in Toronto and a pioneer in NBA history. His legacy would have been cemented in Sports.

These were the real agendas for Colangelo.

ballpd05
07-28-2010, 01:52 PM
Wouldn't blame the FO as much. We tried building around Bosh, it's just he's not the leader everyone thought he could be. I agree the FO had some fault, but different players and styles were added to the team, yet it didn't change anything.

That being said, I think Bosh is a solid 2nd or 3rd option. Doubt he could ever be a successful 1st option.

:clap:

BKNets21
07-28-2010, 01:53 PM
They have a solid core, but that team will go nowhere if Colangelo continues his rubbish GM ways.

dnewguy
07-28-2010, 01:54 PM
Colangelo is a horrible GM, he's has no idea how to build a championship team, none. He kept putting crap around Bosh, his biggest addition was Turkoglu and somehow he expects a better team? He sucks at building a team, the Suns didn't miss a beat since he left either......this the same guy that took Marion off our hands, then let him go for nothing the next season.

mjt20mik
07-28-2010, 01:55 PM
Fact is, Colangelo wanted to build an all-foreign team in a city whose image in the NBA struggles for the wrong reasons.

He would be looked at as the savior of basketball in Toronto and a pioneer in NBA history. These were the real agendas for Colangelo.

Colangelo wanted to bring in international talent. He wanted to initially implement a run and gun system like in PHX. Those are facts.

Your post is false.

smith&wesson
07-28-2010, 01:55 PM
actually id keep BC as a GM and im not sad to see bosh leave.

bosh was a black whole in our offense. jab step, jab step, jab step, contested jumper.
ON EVERY POCESSION!!! please we can do with out him.

he will be much better in miami as a 3rd option. 10 x better.

colangilo did bring in pieces to help bosh. would you like a list ?

tj ford
jermain oniel
shawn marion
hedo turk
jared jack
garbajosa - he played very well for us before his freakish injury.

sure these arent your marque players but they were brought in to suround bosh with depth. bosh is just not a corner stone for any team. he is better suited to be like odem on the lakers. and now he is bosh on the heat behind LBJ and wade, that will be way better for him because now he wont have to take contested jumpers, he will be wide open with wade and lebron on the floor.

Wade>You
07-28-2010, 01:56 PM
Colangelo went out and did everything he could. He had a solid team on paper, but you never really know how someone will mesh until they get on the court.

I was never a fan of bosh because i always thought he was soft, but it wouldn't surprise me seeing the downward spiral of the raptors season. Especially when you only need 1 game to beat out the bulls for the last playoff spot.It's amazing the epic fail his team followed through with when Chris Bosh was missing. Yet, here you are saying "Colangelo did everything he could" and "his team was solid on paper."

mjt20mik
07-28-2010, 01:58 PM
Colangelo is a horrible GM, he's has no idea how to build a championship team, none. He kept putting crap around Bosh, his biggest addition was Turkoglu and somehow he expects a better team? He sucks at building a team, the Suns didn't miss a beat since he left either.

Bosh is a complementary player. Trying to build around a complementary is very hard to do. That being said, BC has had a mediocre tenure with the Raps cause he was trying to build around a player that wasn't suppose to be built around (Bosh). I am more curious to see how he does now, that our team is rebuilding with youth.

Wade>You
07-28-2010, 01:58 PM
Common trait of fans who root for losing franchises: blame the players, not the front office. And people wonder how Isiah Thomas had a job for all these years.

Wade>You
07-28-2010, 02:00 PM
Bosh is a complementary player. Trying to build around a complementary is very hard to do. That being said, BC has had a mediocre tenure with the Raps cause he was trying to build around a player that wasn't suppose to be built around (Bosh). I am more curious to see how he does now, that our team is rebuilding with youth.A complimentary player that gives you 24 and 11? Give me that complimentary player any day, he's better than some of the players people here think of as the face of their franchise.

CityofTreez
07-28-2010, 02:02 PM
If Brian Colangelo failed.......Geoff Petrie didn't!

How do you become a Savior of an NBA Franchise if you bring in foriegn talent?

mjt20mik
07-28-2010, 02:05 PM
A complimentary player that gives you 24 and 11? Give me that complimentary player any day, he's better than some of the players people here think of as the face of their franchise.

A player that puts 24 and 11 on a losing team? Would you consider David Lee a complementary player or a dude you want to build around? Cause he put up 20 and 12.

Jemikz9Clutch
07-28-2010, 02:05 PM
Colangelo wanted to bring in international talent. He wanted to initially implement a run and gun system like in PHX. Those are facts.

Your post is false.

i somehow notice this years ago that the raptors are one of the teams with a lot of international players.

clutchski
07-28-2010, 02:06 PM
Fact is, Colangelo wanted to build an all-foreign team in a city whose image in the NBA struggles for the wrong reasons.

He would be looked at as the savior of basketball in Toronto and a pioneer in NBA history. His legacy would have been cemented in Sports.

These were the real agendas for Colangelo.

No he didn't. He wanted to compliment the team with foreign players that would help appeal the team even more to the city than it already has.
That doesn't mean we had an "all euro" team around Bosh at all.

BC brought in bigger name guys like JO, Marion etc. to pair them with Bosh. In all cases, Bosh was excited to have them. He was excited to have Hedo come to Toronto too. BC also brought in Jack, Bosh's former teammate and good friend at Georgia Tech. Colangelo didn't 'fail'..he worked his *** off to complete some complex moves. Some of them didn't work out, and now we don't have to pay Bosh 110 million dollars for him to be the franchise player for 6 years of mediocrity. It's a good thing. Now we can rebuild.

mjt20mik
07-28-2010, 02:08 PM
This is a discussion thread, not a place for you to bait others into responses and see if you can win a free trip to the village of the banned.

I wasn't trying to bait you. There was a thread about this already, that got closed. All I am saying is that, there could be some truth to what BC said because I haven't experienced his rip on anyone like he did Bosh. And I have been a Raps fan since the get go.

I'm not arguing whether he did a bad job or not. Cause to this date, he hasn't done anything worthwhile to this team.

So take it how ever you want it.

CB29
07-28-2010, 02:10 PM
A player that puts 24 and 11 on a losing team? Would you consider David Lee a complementary player or a dude you want to build around? Cause he put up 20 and 12.

Bosh had the ball in his hands on every possession. Barganni's not a good rebounder if bosh doesn't score and rebound that much then he wouldn't be a good player would he. We play a fast tempo on offense stats get inflated. Deal with it.

mjt20mik
07-28-2010, 02:11 PM
No he didn't. He wanted to compliment the team with foreign players that would help appeal the team even more to the city than it already has.
That doesn't mean we had an "all euro" team around Bosh at all.



If he wanted an ALL EURO TEAM, he would have traded Bosh for Briedrins + fillers. That trade was rumored last year.

akesh99
07-28-2010, 02:11 PM
Colangelo is a horrible GM, he's has no idea how to build a championship team, none. He kept putting crap around Bosh, his biggest addition was Turkoglu and somehow he expects a better team? He sucks at building a team, the Suns didn't miss a beat since he left either......this the same guy that took Marion off our hands, then let him go for nothing the next season.

Do you know anything? The raps got Turkoglu, Antoine Wright and Devean George for Marion and Humphries in a 4 team deal. Then they flipped George for Belinelli. This deal was regarded as one of the craftiest deals of the offseason because BC was able to keep the MLE by doing so which landed us Jarett Jack. Does Turk, Wright, Belinelli and Jack sound like nothing for Marion?

Wade>You
07-28-2010, 02:13 PM
How do you become a Savior of an NBA Franchise if you bring in foriegn talent?It's already been explained;


Fact is, Colangelo wanted to build an all-foreign team in a city whose image in the NBA struggles for the wrong reasons.

He would be looked at as the savior of basketball in Toronto and a pioneer in NBA history. His legacy would have been cemented in Sports.

These were the real agendas for Colangelo.If you need more reasoning: the perception around the league is "no one wants to play in Toronto" (I don't think it should be like that), so I can see Colangelo's only hope was to bring in foreign talent and build the NBA's first foreign team. Foreign players don't care about playing for a popular NBA city as much as American players do.

Just don't blame Chris Bosh for not making an effort to fit in when your goals was not to build around him, but for him to fit in to Colangelo's vision of the Raptors.

That's my only real beef; a severely overrated GM who throws his franchise player under the bus for his failures.

mjt20mik
07-28-2010, 02:16 PM
It's already been explained;

If you need more reasoning: the perception around the league is "no one wants to play in Toronto" (I don't think it should be like that), so I can see Colangelo's only hope was to bring in foreign talent and build the NBA's first foreign team.

Just don't blame Chris Bosh for not making an effort to fit in when your goals was not to build around him, but for him to fit in to Colangelo's vision of the Raptors.

That's my only real beef; a severely overrated GM who blames his franchise player for his failures.

He tried everything to fill in the needs of this team and put a good cast around Bosh. Do you seriously think BC did not speak with Bosh about every single accusation that occurred? That's like saying Lebron had no say in what players the Cavs acquired.

jrodmesche
07-28-2010, 02:16 PM
why would u want to make a team of euro softies its never gonna work thank god im not a raptors fan haha

clutchski
07-28-2010, 02:16 PM
If he wanted an ALL EURO TEAM, he would have traded Bosh for Briedrins + fillers. That trade was rumored last year.

Yeah I think the offer a year or two ago was Biedrins and Randolph. I'm happy we didn't take that.

mjt20mik
07-28-2010, 02:18 PM
why would u want to make a team of euro softies its never gonna work thank god im not a raptors fan haha

Again with this. If I'm not mistaken, the USA team a couple years back lost to a team of Euro softies in FIBA.

:facepalm:

CityofTreez
07-28-2010, 02:21 PM
It's already been explained;

Really?

Cause All I've seen is how people are debating Toronto is not a high destination for most athletes, so the need to bring in foreign talent is a way of disregarding that notion?

Most NBA players: "I don't like Toronto, I don't want to go there"

That's ******** though because a GM cannot be a Savior. He can't go out everyday and perform infront of the fans! All he does is bring in talent for the fans to believe in!

Is Danny Ainge the Savior of the Celtics? I don't think so.

I have Geoff Petrie as a GM. One of the best GM's since the 90's (and IMO, has one of the best resumes in the NBA). He has helped us get to the Promised Land, but never in no way shape of form been our Savior! It's the players that garner wins, attract fans, bring championships!

Brian Colangelo is not a failure just because he has brought in foreign talent to a city needing a new image!

S-Dot
07-28-2010, 02:23 PM
I actually think BC is doing the best he can. As much as people try to ignore it, not alot of players want to be in Canada. BC is putting together a solid team; it's not totally his fault that he can't keep players. And in all honesty, people knew CB4 was leaving regardless.

mjt20mik
07-28-2010, 02:24 PM
Really?

Cause All I've seen is how people are debating Toronto is not a high destination for most athletes, so the need to bring in foreign talent is a way of disregarding that notion?

Most NBA players: "I don't like Toronto, I don't want to go there"

That's ******** though because a GM cannot be a Savior. He can't go out everyday and perform infront of the fans! All he does is bring in talent for the fans to believe in!

Is Danny Ainge the Savior of the Celtics? I don't think so.

I have Geoff Petrie as a GM. One of the best GM's since the 90's (and IMO, has one of the best resumes in the NBA). He has helped us get to the Promised Land, but never in no way shape of form been our Savior! It's the players that garner wins, attract fans, bring championships!

Brian Colangelo is not a failure just because he has brought in foreign talent to a city needing a new image!

That's not even the case. Most players love Toronto. They love the nightlife. Even Sir Charles comes up here every now and then to get in some good R&R and golf.

They just don't want to play here because the NBA media is very American based (as it should be) and Toronto hasn't really put a contender together.

jrodmesche
07-28-2010, 02:26 PM
Again with this. If I'm not mistaken, the USA team a couple years back lost to a team of Euro softies in FIBA.

:facepalm:

yah beacuase it was a ****** USA team and we definetly would win 9 out of ten times if they played 10 more times

mjt20mik
07-28-2010, 02:30 PM
yah beacuase it was a ****** USA team and we definetly would win 9 out of ten times if they played 10 more times


In what world is the below roster horrible?



4 Forward Joe Johnson 1981 Atlanta Hawks
5 Guard Kirk Hinrich 1981 Chicago Bulls
6 Guard LeBron James 1984 Cleveland Cavaliers
7 Forward Antawn Jamison 1976 Washington Wizards
8 Forward Shane Battier 1978 Houston Rockets
9 Guard Dwyane Wade 1982 Miami Heat
10 Guard Chris Paul 1985 NO/OKC Hornets
11 Center Chris Bosh 1984 Toronto Raptors
12 Center Dwight Howard 1985 Orlando Magic
13 Center Brad Miller 1976 Sacramento Kings
14 Forward Elton Brand 1979 Los Angeles Clippers
15 Forward Carmelo Anthony 1984 Denver Nuggets




LINK
http://www.nbauniverse.com/usabasketball/2006_wc_usa_roster.htm

pebloemer
07-28-2010, 02:32 PM
He had his own vision for the Raps and wanted to build the NBA's first all-foreign team so if they were ever a force in the NBA, he could be looked at as a pioneer.

And he blames Bosh for not making an effort to fit in (debatable), the dude is your best player and you don't even bring in pieces that compliment him.

Bosh was truly the square peg for the round hole that was Brian Colangelo's Raptors.

1) How many threads do we have discussing Colangelo and Bosh? Can this opinion not be conveyed in a pre-existing thread or is it so valuable that it warrants its own attention?

2) "Wanted to build the NBA's first all-foreign team?" Can you provide any evidence to back this up? Because if he was looking to create and all foreign team (a) why would Bosh be on it? (b) why would he use assets to bring in players like TJ Ford, Jermaine Oneal, resign Sam Mitchell as coach, sign Kapono, trade for Marion, sign Jarrett Jack, trade away Delfino and Ukic for Weems and Amir Johnson, draft DeMar DeRozan, attempt to sign John Salmons and Trevor Ariza, attempt to trade for Gerald Wallace. Let's not forget the latter three names listed all refused to come to Toronto. You can go ahead and list European names he brought in, and that is fine, but if you are going to claim that he was trying to go "all-euro" you should at least back up your accusations. All the activity I listed runs completely contrary to your claim however.

He came in with a mandate to bring a winning culture to Toronto. It is no secret that many American players don't want to play here, and many European players have enjoyed it here. Sometimes you have to react to the strength of your market. I find it funny that people think being a general manager is as simply as putting pieces together in a fantasy league. GM's need to compete for player services and certain franchises will always have an advantage due to their location, history and budget.

I personally feel he failed to build around Bosh too, but for not for the reason you listed. Horribly weak argument...

rapsallday
07-28-2010, 02:32 PM
He had his own vision for the Raps and wanted to build the NBA's first all-foreign team so if they were ever a force in the NBA, he could be looked at as a pioneer.

The perception around the league is "no one wants to play in Toronto" (I don't think it should be like that), so I can see Colangelo's only hope was to bring in foreign talent and build the NBA's first international team. Foreign players don't care about playing for a popular NBA city as much as American players do.

And he blames Bosh for not making an effort to fit in (debatable), the dude is your best player and you don't even bring in pieces that compliment him.

That's my only real beef; a severely overrated GM who throws his franchise player under the bus for his failures.

Bosh was truly the square peg for the round hole that was Brian Colangelo's Raptors.

Ignorants is bliss...do you really think B.C made any moves without Bosh"s approval....A GM'S JOB Is to make the transaction happen...Bosh decides the route he takes in all actuality....he was excited about every transaction B.C made...part because he wanted it himself...and gave him the okay to pull the trigger

mjt20mik
07-28-2010, 02:34 PM
Ignorants is bliss...do you really think B.C made any moves without Bosh"s approval....A GM'S JOB Is to make the transaction happen...Bosh decides the route he takes in all actuality....he was excited about every transaction B.C made...part because he wanted it himself...and gave him the okay to pull the trigger

Exactly.

Wade>You
07-28-2010, 02:35 PM
For the record, this is not a knock on Raps or their city and fans. I sympathize with all the stereotypes and perception your city has to deal with. And I do believe that building around international players is the only way to put a contender in Toronto until the perceptions change.

But for Colangelo to say,
"We tried in vain to put pieces around Chris. Different pieces, different styles. It didn't work out," he said. "No matter what type of player we brought in, it didn't seem to have the right mix with him as that centerpiece." and essentially insinuate "Bosh is the one that didn't fit," is a cheap shot.

If Bosh is a 2nd or 3rd option as everyone perceives, then the fact is he never played with anyone that was better than him in Toronto. And he was by far the best player for the Raptors during his tenure.

miller74
07-28-2010, 02:36 PM
He had his own vision for the Raps and wanted to build the NBA's first all-foreign team so if they were ever a force in the NBA, he could be looked at as a pioneer.

The perception around the league is "no one wants to play in Toronto" (I don't think it should be like that), so I can see Colangelo's only hope was to bring in foreign talent and build the NBA's first international team. Foreign players don't care about playing for a popular NBA city as much as American players do.

But he blames Bosh for not making an effort to fit in (debatable), the dude is your best player and you don't even bring in pieces that compliment him.

That's my only real beef; a severely overrated GM who throws his franchise player under the bus for his failures.

Bosh was truly the square peg for the round hole that was Brian Colangelo's Raptors.


Bosh was medically cleared to play down the stretch but declined to and his team missed the playoffs by 1 game. Colangelo brought in so many different types of players, different styles and nothing worked with Bosh. The only thing the Colangelo failed at is thinking u can build a team around Chris Bosh.
And not really sour grapes talking im happy he is gone and i think the raps will be better for it going forward
Bosh is 7 foot jump shooter who is a liability on defense not a franchise player

kozelkid
07-28-2010, 02:37 PM
Colangelo didn't do a very good job of building around Bosh, but Bosh was just as bad as well.
As reports say (and it's fairly obvious), there were plenty of times Bosh milked his injuries. He just isn't a centerpiece. You can't build a defense around him, and he doesn't have that mentality. Lucky for him, he can now be that third option he always wanted.

spreadeagle
07-28-2010, 02:38 PM
Ya he gave it a shot with the whole Euro thing,but his franchise player wasnt a Euro..so im sure there was a divide.If he had Dirk or Manu it probably would have...

mjt20mik
07-28-2010, 02:40 PM
For the record, as much as I've argued otherwise, this is not a knock on Raps or their city and fans. I sympathize with all the stereotypes and perception your city has to deal with. And I do believe that building around international players is the only way to put a contender in Toronto until the perceptions change.

But for Colangelo to say, and essentially insinuate "Bosh is the one the one that didn't fit," is a cheap shot.

If Bosh is a 2nd or 3rd option as everyone perceives, then the fact is he never played with anyone that was better than him in Toronto. And he was by far the best player for the Raptors during his tenure.

To be honest, the quote you linked can go both ways. It can insinuate that Colangelo was either taking a cheap shot, or saying "We tried and failed". I clearly can't say which way he meant it.

kozelkid
07-28-2010, 02:40 PM
For the record, this is not a knock on Raps or their city and fans. I sympathize with all the stereotypes and perception your city has to deal with. And I do believe that building around international players is the only way to put a contender in Toronto until the perceptions change.

But for Colangelo to say, and essentially insinuate "Bosh is the one that didn't fit," is a cheap shot.

If Bosh is a 2nd or 3rd option as everyone perceives, then the fact is he never played with anyone that was better than him in Toronto. And he was by far the best player for the Raptors during his tenure.

Because, you know, those centerpieces are a dime a dozen.:rolleyes:
In case you didn't know, getting a true number one player is almost always based on luck. Or tampering.

Jays Claw
07-28-2010, 02:41 PM
Don't blame Chris Bosh for not making an effort to fit in when your goals were not to build around him. However, for him to fit in to Bryan Colangelo's vision of the Raptors.

Bryan Colangelo's vision was to build a team around Chris Bosh. He tried almost everything in the notion of having a player compliment Chris Bosh's game. From post presence (Jermaine O'Neal) to athletic swingmen (Shawn Marion), it was Chris Bosh who couldn't play along side them.

Also, I wouldn't label Jermaine O'Neal or Shawn Marion as "failed experiments" because they actually lived up to their individual expectations. Jermaine O'Neal provided strong interior defense, while Shawn Marion helped the Raptors out with excellent perimeter defense.


A severely overrated general manager who throws his franchise player under the bus for his failures.

Why is it okay for Chris Bosh to throw Toronto under the bus then?


"I didn't want to go there," Chris Bosh said. "It was different. All I knew was that Vince Carter played there. It was a whole different country, and it was just different. I was nineteen years old and didn't know anything about culture and being away from home. All I knew was the United States.


"I have seven years to make up for," Chris Bosh said.

Link: http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/07/25/v-fullstory/1745616/chris-bosh-goes-from-raptor-to.html

spreadeagle
07-28-2010, 02:42 PM
The question should be,should he be fired? Pritchard is available:o

kozelkid
07-28-2010, 02:43 PM
This is a discussion thread, not a place for you to bait others into responses and see if you can win a free trip to the village of the banned.

Because, this thread isn't at ALL an attempt at baiting.
Keep it up, I remember you used to be a regular visitor there.
That is of course until you disappeared for those 2-3 years the Heat were mediocre. :laugh2:

kozelkid
07-28-2010, 02:44 PM
The question should be,should he be fired? Pritchard is available:o

I actually read somewhere that Pritchard took far more credit than he deserved. That it was more credit to an amazing scouting staff of Portland's.

Jays Claw
07-28-2010, 02:45 PM
For Bryan Colangelo to say "Chris Bosh was the one that didn't fit," is a cheap shot.

It's the truth and you know it.

Chris Bosh was indeed the one who couldn't fit in with Bryan Colangelo's acquisitions.

HoopsDrive
07-28-2010, 02:46 PM
For the record, this is not a knock on Raps or their city and fans. I sympathize with all the stereotypes and perception your city has to deal with. And I do believe that building around international players is the only way to put a contender in Toronto until the perceptions change.

But for Colangelo to say, and essentially insinuate "Bosh is the one that didn't fit," is a cheap shot.

If Bosh is a 2nd or 3rd option as everyone perceives, then the fact is he never played with anyone that was better than him in Toronto. And he was by far the best player for the Raptors during his tenure.

Well, yes, everything you said there is right. Why do you think BC had so much trouble building a team around him? It's hard to build a team around a player that is just not good enough to lead a team and would be better suited to be a 2nd or 3rd. Let's face it, for that team to actually be a contender WITH Bosh as the centerpiece, you'd need the likes of Joe Johnson (this is a stretch), Marcus Camby, Rudy Gay and Jason Kidd alongside him.

It's a well perceived fact that Bosh is a perfect 2nd, he just doesn't have enough to be a 1st, to be a cornerstone guy.

kozelkid
07-28-2010, 02:46 PM
I think it's fairly obvious Bosh isn't a centerpiece. Franchise players don't only make the playoffs 2 out of the 7 years they played in the fricking East.

mjt20mik
07-28-2010, 02:46 PM
The question should be,should he be fired? Pritchard is available:o

To be honest, I like BC. He tried with Bosh, it failed. He's building right now with some solid young guys that have A LOT of potential.

pebloemer
07-28-2010, 02:47 PM
For the record, this is not a knock on Raps or their city and fans. I sympathize with all the stereotypes and perception your city has to deal with. And I do believe that building around international players is the only way to put a contender in Toronto until the perceptions change.

But for Colangelo to say, and essentially insinuate "Bosh is the one that didn't fit," is a cheap shot.

If Bosh is a 2nd or 3rd option as everyone perceives, then the fact is he never played with anyone that was better than him in Toronto. And he was by far the best player for the Raptors during his tenure.

Colangelo is certainly not without fault, but he has publicly stated multiple times before that blame should be put on him for not putting pieces together. This is the first time he has insinuated that Bosh doesn't fit. Some of your claims seem over the top and loosely based.

If Colangelo failed (which is fine to argue), I think it is more fruitful to look at the risks he took:
a) trading TJ Ford (who had decent trade value at the time), Roy Hibbert and a 9 million expiring for and injury prone Jermaine Oneal.
b) drafting a 7 foot kid from Italy with the first overall pick when he plays the same position as Bosh and trying to adapt him to play SF or C. I like Bargnani, but he didn't fit alongside Bosh.
c) rolling the dice every off-season and relying on the excuse that chemistry isn't developed for consecutive slow starts
d) failing to put a legit #2 option with Bosh
e) under-emphasizing the important of defense when looking at core players.

It has nothing to do with him wanting the glory of being a pioneer or an innovator. That's a huge stretch.

smith&wesson
07-28-2010, 02:54 PM
why do people precieve europeans as soft ? I know dudes that are european and are tuff as nails. stop being prejudice, its uncalled for. go to the ufc and tell some of those dudes that euro's are soft. see if you dont go home with your chin on your shoes. anyways...

Whats with the asumption that BC only likes euros ??

lets take a look at our roster shall we ?

derozen
weems
jack
ed davis
amir johnson
barbosa

now the euro players

bargs
kleiza - tuff
calderon - BC is looking to trade him
belli - BC is also looking to trade him

of the four euro players we have, BC is trying to trade two of them. and my friends if you never seen kleiza play, please you tube him he is the furthest thing from soft.

its a misconception, yall are asuming that BC is trying to make an all euro team when clearly that is not the case.

stop asuming.

TheTakeOver24
07-28-2010, 03:07 PM
i think any gm that doesnt get his team to the playoffs on a consistent basis fails... but thats just me.

spreadeagle
07-28-2010, 03:09 PM
why do people precieve europeans as soft ? I know dudes that are european and are tuff as nails. stop being prejudice, its uncalled for. go to the ufc and tell some of those dudes that euro's are soft. see if you dont go home with your chin on your shoes. anyways...

Whats with the asumption that BC only likes euros ??

lets take a look at our roster shall we ?

derozen
weems
jack
ed davis
amir johnson
barbosa

now the euro players

bargs
kleiza - tuff
calderon - BC is looking to trade him
belli - BC is also looking to trade him

of the four euro players we have, BC is trying to trade two of them. and my friends if you never seen kleiza play, please you tube him he is the furthest thing from soft.

its a misconception, yall are asuming that BC is trying to make an all euro team when clearly that is not the case.

stop asuming.

LOL he tried but it didnt work so now he is going with a more traditional athletic team,Rasho,Belli,Caleron,Bargs,Roko,Turk..all on one team id say thats euro

dnewguy
07-28-2010, 03:09 PM
Do you know anything? The raps got Turkoglu, Antoine Wright and Devean George for Marion and Humphries in a 4 team deal. Then they flipped George for Belinelli. This deal was regarded as one of the craftiest deals of the offseason because BC was able to keep the MLE by doing so which landed us Jarett Jack. Does Turk, Wright, Belinelli and Jack sound like nothing for Marion?

And those are something?

spreadeagle
07-28-2010, 03:10 PM
i think any gm that doesnt get his team to the playoffs on a consistent basis fails... but thats just me.

:clap: unless you in a real small market "memphis" "Minnesota"

Frezhnitz
07-28-2010, 03:17 PM
Who cares. Bosh overrated.

Lakersho
07-28-2010, 03:28 PM
He had his own vision for the Raps and wanted to build the NBA's first all-foreign team so if they were ever a force in the NBA, he could be looked at as a pioneer.

The perception around the league is "no one wants to play in Toronto" (I don't think it should be like that), so I can see Colangelo's only hope was to bring in foreign talent and build the NBA's first international team. Foreign players don't care about playing for a popular NBA city as much as American players do.

But he blames Bosh for not making an effort to fit in (debatable), the dude is your best player and you don't even bring in pieces that compliment him.

That's my only real beef; a severely overrated GM who throws his franchise player under the bus for his failures.

Bosh was truly the square peg for the round hole that was Brian Colangelo's Raptors.

...Every time a story is brought up about a heat player , Were sure to see a thread trying to spin it another way by the HEAT faithful. dude, the story was just yesterday, we all commented on it and bosh looked like the winner, and colangelo looked like , SOUR GRAPES. wasn't that enough ? hell ,i guess you can call his mom or something ?:horse:

smith&wesson
07-28-2010, 03:36 PM
LOL he tried but it didnt work so now he is going with a more traditional athletic team,Rasho,Belli,Caleron,Bargs,Roko,Turk..all on one team id say thats euro



ROKO was a third string point gaurd
BELLI a third string wing
RASHO a third string center

your talking about the 11th 12th and 13th players on our roster and you think thats a euro team ?

was roko not traded to milwakee before turk came here ?

dude to me an all euro team is

5 starting line up european players, and european players also coming off the bench. dont just name as many european players that played for the raptors as you can and call it a euro team.

do other teams not have euro players as well ? i can list a 1000 examples of teams with euro players like you just did, doesnt mean the GM was biast to american players. BC has always said he goes after the best talent aviable to him. BC even brought back an american player from the euro league because he was doing well at the time. his name was will solomon. he didnt do all that well when returning to the NBA but to sugest that BC is only interested in bring in european players is just dumb!

ink
07-28-2010, 03:36 PM
Pick up a newspaper or go to a website that covers NBA news before you post.

What he says is accurate. Since he is a regular follower of the team Colangelo is the GM of and discusses every article posted about his team, I figure he knows what he is talking about.


Your a funny one. Let's be honest here, do you know anything about any other team other than your precious Heat? Colangelo has only blamed himself for the poor results of the Raptors and hasn't spoken ill about anyone that has been on this team in his tenure. As a Raptors' fan, I saw that Bosh was changed after the All-star game, but refused to think that the break changed him. I can't really comment on the injuries, as I don't know both sides of the deal, but if Chris really needed that time to recover, I doubt BC would have said what he did.

First time I've seen Colangelo point a finger is now and it was well deserved. Bosh threw the season with his tanking after the ASG. Finally BC has come out and confirmed what we all knew.

HiphopRelated
07-28-2010, 03:43 PM
when you have a franchise PF, you don't draft a project PF and hold on to him for dear life

Bargnani was the beginning of the end of the Bosh era

Colangelo was committed to his Euro ideals

Jamiecballer
07-28-2010, 03:46 PM
He had his own vision for the Raps and wanted to build the NBA's first all-foreign team so if they were ever a force in the NBA, he could be looked at as a pioneer.

The perception around the league is "no one wants to play in Toronto" (I don't think it should be like that), so I can see Colangelo's only hope was to bring in foreign talent and build the NBA's first international team. Foreign players don't care about playing for a popular NBA city as much as American players do.

But he blames Bosh for not making an effort to fit in (debatable), the dude is your best player and you don't even bring in pieces that compliment him.

That's my only real beef; a severely overrated GM who throws his franchise player under the bus for his failures.

Bosh was truly the square peg for the round hole that was Brian Colangelo's Raptors.

Your last point hits the nail on the head, to me.

He arrived in town with one of the best half court scorers in the NBA but refused to either change his preferred roster philosophy or trade Bosh and acquire a piece that suited his style of play and then had the nerve to make it sound as though he did all he could to build around Bosh.

Jamiecballer
07-28-2010, 03:54 PM
Bosh had the ball in his hands on every possession. Barganni's not a good rebounder if bosh doesn't score and rebound that much then he wouldn't be a good player would he. We play a fast tempo on offense stats get inflated. Deal with it.

don't know about that. Bosh only takes 16 shots a game and we both know he doesn't pass so he clearly didn't have the ball in his hands nearly as often as you are suggesting.. it's true that Bosh is where ball movement goes to die but the same can be said of a fair number of post players in this league.

Jamiecballer
07-28-2010, 04:02 PM
Ignorants is bliss...do you really think B.C made any moves without Bosh"s approval....A GM'S JOB Is to make the transaction happen...Bosh decides the route he takes in all actuality....he was excited about every transaction B.C made...part because he wanted it himself...and gave him the okay to pull the trigger

:facepalm:

i'm almost speechless. so many ridiculous assertions i don't know where to start. i'm trying to image Bosh and Colangelo having sleepovers as they research potential aquisitions together deep into the night...

ink
07-28-2010, 04:05 PM
He had his own vision for the Raps and wanted to build the NBA's first all-foreign team so if they were ever a force in the NBA, he could be looked at as a pioneer.

The perception around the league is "no one wants to play in Toronto" (I don't think it should be like that), so I can see Colangelo's only hope was to bring in foreign talent and build the NBA's first international team. Foreign players don't care about playing for a popular NBA city as much as American players do.

He wants to be the first man in NBA (possibly sports) history to pull off an all international american pro sports team, but he blames Bosh for not making an effort to fit in (debatable); the dude is your best player and you don't even bring in pieces that compliment him.

That's my only real beef; a severely overrated GM who throws his franchise player under the bus for his failures while not acknowledging his real agenda.

Bosh was truly the square peg for the round hole that was Brian Colangelo's Raptors.

I don't think his motivation was to create a Euro-American hybrid team. It was what he thought would solve the NBA's only foreign team's problem with attracting American players. There's a difference. I'm sure he would be much happier winning any way possible, rather than being the first to use an original recipe. No GM cares about being "the first". They're just like anyone else: they want to win. This was his approach. That's all.

Here's what I don't get: if Colangelo's MO was to build run-and-gun full court teams, why bring him in to build a team around Chris Bosh, who doesn't run well, pass well, but instead excels in the half court? Seems like the mistake was either with building around Bosh or with bringing in the wrong GM to build around him. Undoubtedly Colangelo thought he could get Bosh to play a full-court game. They were all mistaken.

The point is that now it's pretty evident that the Euro-American hybrid is not going to happen in Toronto. I don't see Colangelo getting too worried about that. The key young talent he has brought into the franchise over the last couple of years is: DeMar DeRozan, Ed Davis, Sonny Weems, Amir Johnson, and Jarrett Jack. I don't see any European players there, and for that matter, I didn't see many European players in PHX in the starting lineup that featured: Steve Nash, Shawn Marion, Joe Johnson, and Amare Stoudemire. BC's approach in Toronto was to try to create a hybrid by augmenting young talent with veteran Euro talent because they would be willing to come to a fledgling team. It didn't work out, but it was hardly a vanity project. It was pragmatism, but it failed. Oh well, you move on.

Jamiecballer
07-28-2010, 04:10 PM
It's the truth and you know it.

Chris Bosh was indeed the one who couldn't fit in with Bryan Colangelo's acquisitions.

is that Chris Bosh's fault? if Chris Bosh is a dog and Colangelo brings in nothing but cats do you blame the dog for being a dog? now replace dog with half court/1-on-1 type player and cat with "track team".

Colangelo didn't try to build around Bosh. he tried to build a good team despite Bosh.

ink
07-28-2010, 04:19 PM
is that Chris Bosh's fault? if Chris Bosh is a dog and Colangelo brings in nothing but cats do you blame the dog for being a dog? now replace dog with half court/1-on-1 type player and cat with "track team".

Colangelo didn't try to build around Bosh. he tried to build a good team despite Bosh.

The same dog/cat stuff could be said for the hiring of Colangelo to build around a half court player.

The fundamental problem is that they were not a good match and couldn't make it work. Time to move on.

Bosh has. To a situation where the responsibility isn't on his shoulders and where they will run a half-court offence. He will do well in Miami. He's a good player.

masTOR_shake1
07-28-2010, 04:23 PM
As a raps fan, Bosh shouldn't have been the cornerstone of a team hoping to win a championship. B.C made a ton of mediocre moves but his mistake was being happy with being middle of the pack and having a middle of the pack go-to-guy like Bosh. The euro-experiment was worth a shot as non-American teams playing euro style have had more success in Olympic and International games than one would think and Canada is an attractive place for forigners as its a much easier transition cultrally for international players than the U.S., but B.C felt obligated to build around Bosh because he was our best player at the time. I honestly feel Raps fans aren't thaaaat sad to see him go because he never had the talent or that special something to LEAD a team to a title (unlike Vince Carter in his prime arguably). Our future looks bright though and B.C is a good G.M who now has no obligation to build around anyone he doesn't want to from the ownership group.

mjt20mik
07-28-2010, 04:41 PM
:facepalm:

i'm almost speechless. so many ridiculous assertions i don't know where to start. i'm trying to image Bosh and Colangelo having sleepovers as they research potential aquisitions together deep into the night...

I don't know what's ridiculous. Bosh tweeted he was excited when the Raps got JO, Marion, and Hedo.