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View Full Version : Joey Votto vs. Miguel Cabrera



Gigantes4Life
07-25-2010, 12:07 AM
Considering everything, age, performance and contract, who would you rather have for now and the future?

I'll post some numbers as well:

WAR since 2008 (when Votto became a full-time player)

Votto: 4.0, 4.5, 4.4

Cabrera: 3.0, 5.5, 4.1

Miguel Cabrera's contract: 10:$20M, 11:$20M, 12:$21M, 13:$21M, 14:$22M, 15:$22M

Joey Votto's contract: 550 K, I believe he'll be going to arbitration next year.

nyyfan4life
07-25-2010, 12:41 AM
Votto.

Why?

Defense and contract.

todu82
07-25-2010, 09:12 AM
Joey Votto

bosox3431
07-25-2010, 12:11 PM
Votto- Better defense, better teamate, alot cheaper and takes better care of his body.

carson005
07-25-2010, 03:11 PM
The Canadian

DieHardColtsfan
07-28-2010, 11:27 PM
I'll take Votto.

Algmuskrats
07-30-2010, 02:53 PM
Cabrera lol who cares if he takes care of his body? Votto will probably take over the Reds payroll next year getting around the same as Cabrera and if he doesnt take over the Reds payroll then i'm sure another team will give him there payroll. Votto is going to be a one hit wounder. He's not carrying a team like Cabrera is with the Tigers. Also, Cabrera is a amazing teammate and hes proving it by getting himself if check and proving how much of a heart he has in a city like Detroit.

hoggin88
07-30-2010, 02:59 PM
Cabrera lol who cares if he takes care of his body? Votto will probably take over the Reds payroll next year getting around the same as Cabrera and if he doesnt take over the Reds payroll then i'm sure another team will give him there payroll. Votto is going to be a one hit wounder. He's not carrying a team like Cabrera is with the Tigers. Also, Cabrera is a amazing teammate and hes proving it by getting himself if check and proving how much of a heart he has in a city like Detroit.

Tigers - 6 games back

Reds - 1st place by a half game.

What the hell are you talking about?

Bryrob58
07-30-2010, 03:09 PM
Tigers - 6 games back

Reds - 1st place by a half game.

What the hell are you talking about?

Have you seen the Tigers lineup?

El Hombre#5
07-30-2010, 03:32 PM
Miguel Cabrera as of right now is the better player. And for arguments sake, could very well be the 2nd best hitter in the game, other then Mr. Pujols' of course.
Votto is having a terrific year and yes, he is young... but he doesn't deserve to be called the better player yet.

Right now, my answer is Cabrera.

long ball
07-30-2010, 03:36 PM
Even if their contracts were the same I think I woulds still prefer Votto.

hoggin88
07-30-2010, 05:34 PM
Have you seen the Tigers lineup?

Their lineup isn't bad at all. They've had Brennan Boesch, Magglio Ordonez, Austin Jackson and Johnny Damon all hitting well this year with Guillen and Inge putting up average numbers and even Santiago hasn't been that bad now that I look at it.

They are 10th in the majors in wOBA. That's not bad at all. As a matter fact, that is what you call above average.

I would say the Tigers lineup has produced better than the Reds has, that is if you include Magglio. So I don't buy this "carried his team on his back" stuff for Cabrera.

Kakaroach
07-30-2010, 08:02 PM
Joey Votto, but I'm biased.

stretchedmonkey
07-30-2010, 08:51 PM
Their lineup isn't bad at all. They've had Brennan Boesch, Magglio Ordonez, Austin Jackson and Johnny Damon all hitting well this year with Guillen and Inge putting up average numbers and even Santiago hasn't been that bad now that I look at it.

They are 10th in the majors in wOBA. That's not bad at all. As a matter fact, that is what you call above average.

I would say the Tigers lineup has produced better than the Reds has, that is if you include Magglio. So I don't buy this "carried his team on his back" stuff for Cabrera.

Boesch is super slumping, Ordonez and Damon are out right now, Inge and Guillen are injured as well, Santi doesn't play half the time anymore, that's what he means. Earlier in the season I understand your point, but RIGHT NOW, he's carrying.

carson005
07-30-2010, 08:54 PM
Boesch is super slumping, Ordonez and Damon are out right now, Inge and Guillen are injured as well, Santi doesn't play half the time anymore, that's what he means. Earlier in the season I understand your point, but RIGHT NOW, he's carrying.

But they've lost 4 straight and are 3-7 in their L10. Carrying a team implies winning I think.

stretchedmonkey
07-30-2010, 08:59 PM
But they've lost 4 straight and are 3-7 in their L10. Carrying a team implies winning I think.

Indeed, but he's all of our offense recently, it's a sad shame, we are still over .500 though, and Peralta has made a difference already.

Thames9
07-31-2010, 12:12 AM
Cabrera would probably hit .400 if he got to face NL pitching and play in Great American Ballpark. Not to mention be around 50 homers every year. Guy's a Hall of Famer.

jlohm1
07-31-2010, 12:34 AM
Cabrera would probably hit .400 if he got to face NL pitching and play in Great American Ballpark. Not to mention be around 50 homers every year. Guy's a Hall of Famer.

i honestly do not see that happening...

and NL has excellent pitching. AL offense might be better... but i wouldnt consider their pitching better.

Gigantes4Life
07-31-2010, 01:32 AM
Cabrera would probably hit .400 if he got to face NL pitching and play in Great American Ballpark. Not to mention be around 50 homers every year. Guy's a Hall of Famer.

Or not.

m26555
07-31-2010, 09:57 AM
Cabrera. Who gives a damn about their contracts? We're talking about the best hitter in baseball here.

BranWings
07-31-2010, 10:24 AM
Joey Votto.

yankeefan54
08-01-2010, 02:16 PM
ill take the player that isnt an abusive drunk and that can field

Redbull
08-01-2010, 03:18 PM
Right now it's Cabrera and in the future I still believe it's Cabrera.

Gigantes4Life
08-01-2010, 04:38 PM
Cabrera. Who gives a damn about their contracts? We're talking about the best hitter in baseball here.

No I said Cabrera, not Pujols.

And how can you say contracts aren't important? Being a Marlins fan of all you should realize that getting value out of every dollar is important.

DWills
08-02-2010, 12:47 PM
silly thread.......its not even close.....miggy's best hitter in american league and prolly baseball.....does it year after year after year.......votto had 65 rbi's last year? lets let him have a few more years like this one, before we start making ridiculous comparisons

miggy's well worth his contract.......absolutely not history of injuries, obv not the greatest defensive first basemen in the league, but hiding defensive problems at first base is not new......

hoggin88
08-02-2010, 02:03 PM
silly thread.......its not even close.....miggy's best hitter in american league and prolly baseball.....does it year after year after year.......votto had 65 rbi's last year? lets let him have a few more years like this one, before we start making ridiculous comparisons

miggy's well worth his contract.......absolutely not history of injuries, obv not the greatest defensive first basemen in the league, but hiding defensive problems at first base is not new......

First of all, as has been shown on this board about several million times, RBI is pretty much a worthless stat to compare players with, for many reasons.

Secondly, Votto had 82 RBI last year, not 65.

Thirdly, Votto got those 82 RBI in just 469 AB's [544 PA's].

Your post has nothing to say.

DWills
08-02-2010, 02:51 PM
First of all, as has been shown on this board about several million times, RBI is pretty much a worthless stat to compare players with, for many reasons.

Secondly, Votto had 82 RBI last year, not 65.

Thirdly, Votto got those 82 RBI in just 469 AB's [544 PA's].

Your post has nothing to say.




lmao, ur right votto is better than cabrera.........lmao

stretchedmonkey
08-02-2010, 03:02 PM
ill take the player that isnt an abusive drunk and that can field

and for this statement, you can go fist yourself.

hoggin88
08-02-2010, 03:16 PM
lmao, ur right votto is better than cabrera.........lmao

Nice thought out argument there.

You know, it's kind of funny. Not only is RBI a terrible stat, but what you said was hardly even a knock on Votto. He had 82 RBI in 544 PA's. Cabrera had 103 RBI in 685 PA's. Continuing at that pace Votto would have had exactly 103 RBI in the same number of PA's as Cabrera, not to mention that Votto actually hit significantly better with RISP than Cabrera did, which goes to show you just one of the many reasons why RBI is a ******** stat.

But yeah, your "lmao" definitely offsets the complete nonsense you wrote.
-

DWills
08-02-2010, 04:09 PM
yea.....lets not get preoccuped with meaningless triple crown stats

i guess home runs and batting average mean nothing now too......lmao

this is not even a close comparison....

and lol at my nonsense......i guess derrek lee is better than cabrera now too?

and when it comes to comparing these two, a well thougth out argument is not needed.......common sense would help tho.....hope u get there one day

hoggin88
08-02-2010, 04:17 PM
yea.....lets not get preoccuped with meaningless triple crown stats

i guess home runs and batting average mean nothing now too......lmao

this is not even a close comparison....

and lol at my nonsense......i guess derrek lee is better than cabrera now too?

and when it comes to comparing these two, a well thougth out argument is not needed.......common sense would help tho.....hope u get there one day

Right, I am a Cubs fan therefore I think Lee is a god and better than Miguel Cabrera.

Really, I'm not even ripping on Cabrera. I'm just pointing out how you have no basis for what you say. I think if Votto puts up another year like this one he will officially be better than Cabrera. Right now I'm a little hesitant to give him that though.

As for RBI, I would give you a more thorough explanation on why RBI is a bad stat for player comparison, but since you admittedly don't like it when people use their brains and give any sort of reasoning for what they say, I guess I won't disturb you with any of that.

Your "common sense" is just a combination of you automatically clinging to the name you know better and who has more RBI. That's not common sense, it is ignorance. But apparently, according to you, you are ok with that.

I guess we're done here.

DWills
08-02-2010, 04:23 PM
Right, I am a Cubs fan therefore I think Lee is a god and better than Miguel Cabrera.

Really, I'm not even ripping on Cabrera. I'm just pointing out how you have no basis for what you say. I think if Votto puts up another year like this one he will officially be better than Cabrera. Right now I'm a little hesitant to give him that though.

As for RBI, I would give you a more thorough explanation on why RBI is a bad stat for player comparison, but since you admittedly don't like it when people use their brains and give any sort of reasoning for what they say, I guess I won't disturb you with any of that.
Your "common sense" is just a combination of you automatically clinging to the name you know better and who has more RBI. That's not common sense, it is ignorance. But apparently, according to you, you are ok with that.

I guess we're done here.

yea.....who wants someone who drives in runs.......runs are overrated

common sense comes after the 8th grade, come talk to me in 2 years i guess.....

and yes, wasting my time with someone who thinks joey votto is better than miguel cabrera, does make this conversation over.......i mean, u can argue that he's got abetter contract but that would be only thing that would even make this a discussion......anyone who thinks that joey votto is better than miguel cabrera obv doesn't watch a lot of baseball, and being a cubs fan i dont think i'd really blame u for that......

hoggin88
08-02-2010, 04:55 PM
yea.....who wants someone who drives in runs.......runs are overrated

common sense comes after the 8th grade, come talk to me in 2 years i guess.....

and yes, wasting my time with someone who thinks joey votto is better than miguel cabrera, does make this conversation over.......i mean, u can argue that he's got abetter contract but that would be only thing that would even make this a discussion......anyone who thinks that joey votto is better than miguel cabrera obv doesn't watch a lot of baseball, and being a cubs fan i dont think i'd really blame u for that......

I tried to open the door for intelligent conversation, you slammed it shut. Time to move on here I suppose.

Saint Brian
08-03-2010, 09:31 AM
Votto

Better defense, better attitude, not a drunk.

stretchedmonkey
08-03-2010, 11:08 AM
Votto

Better defense, better attitude, not a drunk.

And you sir, can also go fist yourself after this statement.

I'm sick people STILL talking about "attitude" and being a "drunk". I'm sure alot of players go through what Miguel did, they just didn't end up with ****ing scars on their face so it's impossible for them to hide it. Grow the **** up, and move on, his attitude towards the game is more than changed now, you don't watch him on a daily basis.

Gigantes4Life
08-03-2010, 06:33 PM
yea.....who wants someone who drives in runs.......runs are overrated

common sense comes after the 8th grade, come talk to me in 2 years i guess.....

and yes, wasting my time with someone who thinks joey votto is better than miguel cabrera, does make this conversation over.......i mean, u can argue that he's got abetter contract but that would be only thing that would even make this a discussion......anyone who thinks that joey votto is better than miguel cabrera obv doesn't watch a lot of baseball, and being a cubs fan i dont think i'd really blame u for that......

:laugh:

lulz

ShockerArt
08-04-2010, 09:47 AM
yea.....who wants someone who drives in runs.......runs are overrated

common sense comes after the 8th grade, come talk to me in 2 years i guess.....

and yes, wasting my time with someone who thinks joey votto is better than miguel cabrera, does make this conversation over.......i mean, u can argue that he's got abetter contract but that would be only thing that would even make this a discussion......anyone who thinks that joey votto is better than miguel cabrera obv doesn't watch a lot of baseball, and being a cubs fan i dont think i'd really blame u for that......

As opposed to someone like you who watches a lot of baseball and doesn't understand it?

Pinstripe pride
08-06-2010, 04:05 PM
i'd vote caberra

yankeefan54
08-08-2010, 08:17 PM
yea.....who wants someone who drives in runs.......runs are overrated

common sense comes after the 8th grade, come talk to me in 2 years i guess.....

and yes, wasting my time with someone who thinks joey votto is better than miguel cabrera, does make this conversation over.......i mean, u can argue that he's got abetter contract but that would be only thing that would even make this a discussion......anyone who thinks that joey votto is better than miguel cabrera obv doesn't watch a lot of baseball, and being a cubs fan i dont think i'd really blame u for that......

wow ur cool:clap:

Kings Analyst
08-08-2010, 08:46 PM
yea.....who wants someone who drives in runs.......runs are overrated

common sense comes after the 8th grade, come talk to me in 2 years i guess.....

and yes, wasting my time with someone who thinks joey votto is better than miguel cabrera, does make this conversation over.......i mean, u can argue that he's got abetter contract but that would be only thing that would even make this a discussion......anyone who thinks that joey votto is better than miguel cabrera obv doesn't watch a lot of baseball, and being a cubs fan i dont think i'd really blame u for that......

:facepalm: