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View Full Version : Why is Tracy McGrady so hated?



KNOCKOUT
07-22-2010, 05:53 PM
This man entertained the NBA for years. you cannot show a reel of NBA greatest highlights without him being on there. You mad cause he never been out the first round? he bust his *** every playoff series his team didn't, that is why we call it team sport. check his playoff numbers and compare them and see how high up he rank. Stop kicking a man when he's down, and thank him for the NBA moments he brought into you home.:clap:

1. 62 pt. game:clap:
2. Dunk on shawn bradley:clap:
3. all-star cross on Lebron James.:clap:
4. and lets not forget all-star game off the backboard to himself.:clap:

shall we continue?

ldc62
07-22-2010, 05:56 PM
I hope you don't remember him by 2, 3 and 4. The crazy 11 pts (or something) in 41 secs was better.

But back to the question: Because when the Rockets were trying to trade him 2 seasons ago, he didn't want to go to a bad team so he opt for surgery so no team would want him (according to Bill Simmons).

FOBolous
07-22-2010, 06:01 PM
for the same reason as lebron. because he lacks professionalism and tend to rub his fan base the wrong way with his lack of professionalism. there's a reason why fans of every team he ever been on hates him.

Chronz
07-22-2010, 06:06 PM
Because fans lack proper perspective on the games best players. They think Tmac is unique in his actions. In reality hes one of the games most charitable humanitarians. People mistake a players persona with his actual NBA legacy, they intertwine but the former doesnt influence it as much as actual ON-COURT contributions.

Tmacs teams have always overachieved, it was only his recent divorces that have led people to despise him, in the case of Orlando they have no right to hold it against him.

netsgiantsyanks
07-22-2010, 06:09 PM
This man entertained the NBA for years. you cannot show a reel of NBA greatest highlights without him being on there. You mad cause he never been out the first round? he bust his *** every playoff series his team didn't, that is why we call it team sport. check his playoff numbers and compare them and see how high up he rank. Stop kicking a man when he's down, and thank him for the NBA moments he brought into you home.:clap:

1. 62 pt. game:clap:
2. Dunk on shawn bradley:clap:
3. all-star cross on Lebron James.:clap:
4. and lets not forget all-star game off the backboard to himself.:clap:

shall we continue?

who hasnt dunked on shawn bradley?

5ass
07-22-2010, 06:17 PM
I hope you don't remember him by 2, 3 and 4. The crazy 11 pts (or something) in 41 secs was better.

But back to the question: Because when the Rockets were trying to trade him 2 seasons ago, he didn't want to go to a bad team so he opt for surgery so no team would want him (according to Bill Simmons).

13 points in 35 seconds

Geargo Wallace
07-22-2010, 06:20 PM
cuz he and Vince could have won championships in Toronto but he sought to lose the rest of his career playoff series on his own.

TEXASTITAN
07-22-2010, 06:22 PM
Because he's a career loser,chokes in the playoffs,all about himself,quit on his team,wants to be the attention whore/superstar/primadonna. He quit on the rockets before he was traded he shut himself down for surgery that the rockets deemed unnecessary and he did it anyway. When he comes back he cries about playing time and when he gets time he doesn't perform. He's toxic to a team with championship aspirations because he lacks confidence and a team first mentality. He still thinks he's the player that won scoring titles back in the day when the fact is he's NEVER going to be that player again. He's that over the hill star that just won't go away even when all the signs are there that it's time to quit he's hanging around looking to leach off of a playoff contender still trying to get out of the first round. If you truly think about it the story is sad i pity the guy in a way because he wants to win a championship in a team sport when all the can think about is himself and for some reason he can't seem to understand it. He's never won anything but individual awards and the rockets were actually a better team with him gone the chemistry was better and we robbed the knicks in the deal. And everything the original poster listed are individual achievements and do absolutely nothing to help your team that just further proves my point that the guy is his own worst enemy.

b_russ
07-22-2010, 06:23 PM
He represented his country well... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC_PWKca8sA)

xxfresh
07-22-2010, 06:23 PM
because he gave up on us first. Example: The Toronto Game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjbkXewxlGI

Chronz
07-22-2010, 06:35 PM
See what I mean about lacking perspective...


cuz he and Vince could have won championships in Toronto but he sought to lose the rest of his career playoff series on his own.
Im pretty sure him and Grant Hill talking about teaming up in the months leading up to FA meant he wasnt thinking about going to war by himself. It was only Grant Hills ankle that ensured Tmac never got the talent around him.


because he gave up on us first. Example: The Toronto Game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjbkXewxlGI
So this regular season game outweighs the fact that Tmac played through injuries in the playoffs, and gave the team his all when it mattered most. Man your finicky


Because he's a career loser,chokes in the playoffs,all about himself,
Plenty of more credible people disagree with these unwarranted opinions.


quit on his team,wants to be the attention whore/superstar/primadonna.
In other words he was a star.


He quit on the rockets before he was traded he shut himself down for surgery that the rockets deemed unnecessary and he did it anyway.
Incorrect, just because the Rockets medical staff lacked the capacity to know the extent of his injuries doesnt mean it was unnecessary, it only deems them ignorant. Its why one of the teams primary physicians has since apologized and quit. Tmac should have gotten the surgery alot sooner, but everyone kept feeding him false information. Obviously Tmac had his faults in this divorce, Im not disputing that. Only that he was caught in a bad situation and both sides are at fault.


When he comes back he cries about playing time and when he gets time he doesn't perform. He's toxic to a team with championship aspirations because he lacks confidence and a team first mentality. He still thinks he's the player that won scoring titles back in the day when the fact is he's NEVER going to be that player again.
Again, your opinion. Hes already stated hes far removed from his prime, but he believes in his ability to return to a game changing form. So be it, it doesnt make him a player who isnt about the team. Atleast not any more so than the majority of players in the league.


He's that over the hill star that just won't go away even when all the signs are there that it's time to quit he's hanging around looking to leach off of a playoff contender still trying to get out of the first round. If you truly think about it the story is sad i pity the guy in a way because he wants to win a championship in a team sport when all the can think about is himself and for some reason he can't seem to understand it. He's never won anything but individual awards and the rockets were actually a better team with him gone the chemistry was better and we robbed the knicks in the deal. And everything the original poster listed are individual achievements and do absolutely nothing to help your team that just further proves my point that the guy is his own worst enemy.

Umm of course the Rockets were better without an INJURED Tmac. He was trying to measure where he was at in his recovery. He couldnt do that in Houston so he left, and did so much more professionally than most. Heck hes done it twice so he knows the procedure.

And the rest of your post was typical hate as well

dre1990
07-22-2010, 06:38 PM
I didnt know there are alot of people hate for T-mac.

Geargo Wallace
07-22-2010, 06:41 PM
See what I mean about lacking perspective...


Im pretty sure him and Grant Hill talking about teaming up in the months leading up to FA meant he wasnt thinking about going to war by himself. It was only Grant Hills ankle that ensured Tmac never got the talent around him.

Okay here's perspective: "I'm gonna leave my cousin Vince and the team that drafted me to join a better player (Grant Hill) because my cousin Vince overshadows me too much."

NYtilIdie
07-22-2010, 06:44 PM
Im sorry since when does averaging 28 PPG in the playoffs (one of the highest in NBA history) considered choking? Its easy to blame the star player of the team for ***k sakes people claimed Lebron choked in the ECF 2 years ago and he averaged 35 PPG.

Look at the teams he's been on and tell me they didn't overachieve. He never had a legit sidekick because they were both constantly hurt. He carried that 07-08 Rockets team to 22 game win streak and won 12 of them without Yao. But by time playoffs come around Yao's done for the season and Rafer didn't return until the last game and T-Mac was forced to do it by himself because nobody else wanted to show up.

Which has been the story for Mcgrady's career, he shows up but nobody else does. You guys need to stop blaming the star players for choking when you know they're giving it their all to win (like averaging 28 PPG in the playoffs) and blame the teammates that surround them.

Chronz
07-22-2010, 06:48 PM
Okay here's perspective: "I'm gonna leave my cousin Vince and the team that drafted me to join a better player (Grant Hill) because my cousin Vince overshadows me too much."
Forgot to mention the fact that he wanted to go HOME, seems very logical especially when you consider the prospects of playing with an established star and allowing your cousin to have his own spot light. Doesnt seem all that bad to me, then again I know the history of the league.

Also people overblow the overshadowing thing. He wanted Vince to have his own spotlight and him to have his own in Orlando, but that doesnt necessarily mean he didnt want to play under other great players, just not one who is basically his peer group and not at the expense of playing where he wants. Im sure if Vince were in Florida he would have signed with him too.


I didnt know there are alot of people hate for T-mac.
Hes a polarizing figure, there is no middle ground with him amongst the majority of fans.

NYtilIdie
07-22-2010, 06:53 PM
Okay here's perspective: "I'm gonna leave my cousin Vince and the team that drafted me to join a better player (Grant Hill) because my cousin Vince overshadows me too much."

Well first off Vince is Mcgrady's third cousin and didn't know until they met at family reunion. So the whole "family" thing is irrelevant.

Plus Toronto made it clear they were going to build around Carter so he found a better situation in ORL and they were willing to build around him and allow him to showcase his skill, give him max money and play along side a then prime Grant Hill. Plus getting the opportunity to play in front of his hometown for 41 games.

Yeah thats real easy to turn down :rolleyes:

Aussy4GM
07-22-2010, 06:55 PM
i agree with you dude. people always hate on T-Mac. i personally love him. 1st off the surgery thing is fully overblown. nobody just goes and gets surgery because they dont want to be traded. and Wallace...Grant hill was going to overshadow him in orlando so that is a bogus excuse.

Klivlend
07-22-2010, 06:58 PM
I like T-Mac. Nuttin but love

Ray_R
07-22-2010, 06:58 PM
I dont hate him but I dont want him on my team either..

Hustlenomics
07-22-2010, 07:01 PM
Because fans lack proper perspective on the games best players. They think Tmac is unique in his actions. In reality hes one of the games most charitable humanitarians. People mistake a players persona with his actual NBA legacy, they intertwine but the former doesnt influence it as much as actual ON-COURT contributions.

Tmacs teams have always overachieved, it was only his recent divorces that have led people to despise him, in the case of Orlando they have no right to hold it against him.

kinda like you do with iverson

Chronz
07-22-2010, 07:05 PM
Well first off Vince is Mcgrady's third cousin and didn't know until they met at family reunion. So the whole "family" thing is irrelevant.

Plus Toronto made it clear they were going to build around Carter so he found a better situation in ORL and they were willing to build around him and allow him to showcase his skill, give him max money and play along side a then prime Grant Hill. Plus getting the opportunity to play in front of his hometown for 41 games.

Yeah thats real easy to turn down :rolleyes:
I love Tmac but thats not the reason he left Toronto. In fact I kind of sympathize with the fans against a young Tmac more than I do against the Magic fans for hating on a vindicated Tmac.

Before Tmac left the Raps they had asked him if he had any desire to leave and if so they would trade him during the season, he told them no, (though later confessing he had always hoped to go to Orlando). When FA came they offered him the same expanded role(an easy decision considering his rapid development), he wanted more. While its not exactly his job to tell his team of his intentions, the Raps did everything they could to keep him.

In the end its pure speculation which was the best choice. Sure Hill never got healthy but Tmac attained a level of play so few have met in large part due to the training staff in Orlando. They had the right motivators in place for a guy like Tmac. Besides Vince wasnt exactly a picture of health, that said. Vince and Mac would have been special atleast 2 years

NYtilIdie
07-22-2010, 07:07 PM
[QUOTE=TEXASTITAN;14248672] he shut himself down for surgery that the rockets deemed unnecessary and he did it anyway. When he comes back he cries about playing time and when he gets time he doesn't perform. He still thinks he's the player that won scoring titles back in the day when the fact is he's NEVER going to be that player again.

1. Well if a former slam dunk contestant can't dunk a basketball anymore because theres a tear in his knee im guessing its time to get surgery. He needed microfracture knee surgery to repair his knee, that right there could have ended his career, just ask Amare how serious that injury is. Yeah, getting 7-8 minutes of PT a night is plenty of time to perform :rolleyes:

2. He's said plenty of times that he knows he won't return to superstar form, but feels he can contribute to a championship team.

So your post is pretty much a hater post.

smith&wesson
07-22-2010, 07:12 PM
he is mr glass thats why!
he could have been kobe now he is lucky if he is remembered as grant hill caliber.

marlinsfan24
07-22-2010, 07:14 PM
I love T-Mac and hope he can prove that he still has something left.

spreadeagle
07-22-2010, 07:28 PM
"IT FEELS GOOD TO FINALLY MAKE IT TO THE SECOND ROUND"...... nuff said:p

Stunner
07-22-2010, 07:31 PM
Because fans lack proper perspective on the games best players. They think Tmac is unique in his actions. In reality hes one of the games most charitable humanitarians. People mistake a players persona with his actual NBA legacy, they intertwine but the former doesnt influence it as much as actual ON-COURT contributions.

Tmacs teams have always overachieved, it was only his recent divorces that have led people to despise him, in the case of Orlando they have no right to hold it against him.

x2

KnicksorBust
07-22-2010, 07:45 PM
I don't like players who don't put the effort in. When I read quotes from Battier about what a bum he was on defense it really turned me off. Considering he's one of the most talented players I've ever seen, it adds fuel to the fire. You want those types of players to have an endless motor and there is almost a sense of jealousy stemming from the fact that you believe with his gifts you could have done more.

Stunner
07-22-2010, 07:47 PM
T-Mac is lazy look at his eye but he will play defense when the game is on the line and when it matters. He can be a good defender but he doesn't try to be all the time. But he can if he wanted to.

djlamer
07-22-2010, 08:02 PM
i don't think people hate him, hes just been injured too much. it feels like the past 5 seasons he hasn't been in full health.
....his lazy eye doesn't help either.....

mrblisterdundee
07-22-2010, 08:02 PM
McGrady's a prick, but he is an all-time great, regardless of how far he got. I'd say team him up with Iverson five years ago, and see how much chemistry and humility versus success you have.

BkOriginalOne
07-22-2010, 08:08 PM
Tmac never had the right team around him

He needs a PG who can run the offense and defensive minded SG to knock down 3s. A KG two way PF and an efficient defensive center.

He needs to go to a team that is already stacked where he can step in an contribute as a point forward. I think Tmac will be in shape this season (and might even approach 20 a game if landed in the right spot)

Great fits for Tmac
The Bulls
The Clippers
The Hornets
The Jazz
The Lakers
The Phoenix Suns (maybe before getting childress and turk)
The Warriors (Tmac and Don nellie - why not?)
And oh yeah.. The Heat.

I think he'd be best on the Lakers as a role player.
As a leader and contributor with a look out out of the 1st round, the Bulls are the best bet

Chronz
07-22-2010, 09:04 PM
I don't like players who don't put the effort in. When I read quotes from Battier about what a bum he was on defense it really turned me off. Considering he's one of the most talented players I've ever seen, it adds fuel to the fire. You want those types of players to have an endless motor and there is almost a sense of jealousy stemming from the fact that you believe with his gifts you could have done more.
Tmac could just as easily complain about Battier lack of offensive contributions. Its not as if Tmac never put forth the effort, you dont get that good and win the most improved award by not putting forth the effort. Its just at that point in his career, Tmac wasnt able to carry the team on both ends.

PS Tmac physical gifts include his balky back and injury that completely altered his playing style.

Verbal Christ
07-22-2010, 09:15 PM
two words:

DEE VAA

DCSportsIsPain
07-22-2010, 09:21 PM
Every team in the league would sign T-Mac for the vet minimum except one ...

dodie53
07-22-2010, 10:01 PM
13 points in 35 seconds

against the spurs

JordansBulls
07-22-2010, 10:02 PM
This man entertained the NBA for years. you cannot show a reel of NBA greatest highlights without him being on there. You mad cause he never been out the first round? he bust his *** every playoff series his team didn't, that is why we call it team sport. check his playoff numbers and compare them and see how high up he rank. Stop kicking a man when he's down, and thank him for the NBA moments he brought into you home.:clap:

1. 62 pt. game:clap:
2. Dunk on shawn bradley:clap:
3. all-star cross on Lebron James.:clap:
4. and lets not forget all-star game off the backboard to himself.:clap:

shall we continue?

I don't hate him.:)

SA5195
07-22-2010, 10:08 PM
I like this better than the one on Bradley. Just my opinion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPuy_4KSih0

But ya, I don't like him cause he left us for fame basically. VC and T-mac would've been awsome if they were in their primes here. But he left cause he didn't want to be VC's shadow.

Kobe5RingKing
07-22-2010, 10:59 PM
He was great, but time to move on. Over the past few seasons he proved that his age and injurys has caught up to him

Kobe5RingKing
07-22-2010, 11:00 PM
He still can't accept the fact his no longer the top 3 scorer in the nba, when he settles with his role, than he can contribute

bahama0811
07-22-2010, 11:01 PM
I don't hate him, I feel bad for him.

5ass
07-22-2010, 11:06 PM
against the spurs

one of the best defensive teams at that time

NBA-GMaster
07-22-2010, 11:11 PM
NOPE, i dont hate him.. I admire him..

xbrackattackx
07-22-2010, 11:30 PM
I love Mcgrady is this for real? I think everyone hates that he got Chopped in his prime just like my boy G. Hill.

mynameismo
07-22-2010, 11:37 PM
I don't hate him, I feel bad for him.

This

Stunner
07-22-2010, 11:43 PM
This

nice sig

SC1211
07-22-2010, 11:57 PM
People who didn't watch him night in and night out just don't get it. The guy is a loser, plain and simple. A talented loser, but a loser. When you have that much talent, it's sickening to not put in the effort. He was a good player for his first two Rockets years, but he never had the winning attitude. McGrady constantly whined in the media if something didn't go right (often subtle shots at his teammates), he would give no effort on defense, and he'd just decide to take nights off. Yes, he usually stepped it up in the playoffs, but it's not good enough for him, he needed to put his team in a better position. What he did with his microfracture surgery (where he announced to the media after he almost got traded) was absolutely shameful.

Here's what McGrady does: he hides his laziness. He'll be an awful jumpshooter for a game or half a game, then turn it on so he's on the highlight reel, then everyone is happy, and then he does it again. He does not have the work ethic to win, he always showed up out of shape to training camp. His workouts with Grover were definitely the hardest working excercises he's probably ever done, but it's too late now. What else does a guy have to do for people to finally realize he's a cancer to any team he's on? He rubs his teammates the wrong way everywhere, Rafer Alston called him out, Ron Artest called him out, hell even Shane Battier said he was happy to finally have the "roster stable" after he was traded. Yao Ming, who's a fiercely loyal teammate and always voices his sadness to see a teammate go, never really seemed upset by his departure. Adelman called him unprofessional. Leslie Alexander, who was also fiercely loyal to McGrady and told Morey he was untouchable, quickly changed his stance after seeing McGrady give up on his team.

I know it was already posted, but watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjbkXewxlGI

How can somebody who loves the game of basketball not be disgusted by that? Regardless of the fact that injuries have diminished his game, McGrady's awful attitude would even dissuade me from considering him for the vet minimum. It always has to be about Tracy when he's on a team.

BallaDrake601
07-22-2010, 11:58 PM
Tracy McGrady is one of tha best players to ever step foot on an NBA court and I'm not just sayin that cuz he my favorite player but its da truth

FOBolous
07-23-2010, 12:07 AM
Tmac never had the right team around him

He needs a PG who can run the offense and defensive minded SG to knock down 3s. A KG two way PF and an efficient defensive center.

He needs to go to a team that is already stacked where he can step in an contribute as a point forward. I think Tmac will be in shape this season (and might even approach 20 a game if landed in the right spot)

Great fits for Tmac
The Bulls
The Clippers
The Hornets
The Jazz
The Lakers
The Phoenix Suns (maybe before getting childress and turk)
The Warriors (Tmac and Don nellie - why not?)
And oh yeah.. The Heat.

I think he'd be best on the Lakers as a role player.
As a leader and contributor with a look out out of the 1st round, the Bulls are the best bet

it sounded like you just described the Rockets.



but anyways...i personally don't like him because of his attitude. he has this "if the team wins...it's because of me. if the team loses...it's everyone else's fault" attitude. he also often forget that he has good teammates and ball hogs A LOT thus eliminating any flow to the games and prevents his teammates from being the best players they can possibly be. he holds his teammates back and he holds his team back with his ball hogging.

case and point: every player on the Rockets play better when he's injured. the Rockets also played better without him in the playoffs and were finally able to get to the 2nd round with him on the bench.

Stunner
07-23-2010, 12:27 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpQwZC_ChcM

Chronz
07-23-2010, 12:31 AM
it sounded like you just described the Rockets.



but anyways...i personally don't like him because of his attitude. he has this "if the team wins...it's because of me. if the team loses...it's everyone else's fault" attitude. he also often forget that he has good teammates and ball hogs A LOT thus eliminating any flow to the games and prevents his teammates from being the best players they can possibly be. he holds his teammates back and he holds his team back with his ball hogging.

case and point: every player on the Rockets play better when he's injured. the Rockets also played better without him in the playoffs and were finally able to get to the 2nd round with him on the bench.

Refer to my previous post.

FOBolous
07-23-2010, 12:34 AM
Refer to my previous post.

i don't care about your previous post. the fact that Dayrl Morey, the statistical genius you worship, don't want him anymore trumps everything you say. and i know what i saw. i saw a Rockets team that played harder, hustled more, and played better without Tmac as oppose to with tmac.

Chronz
07-23-2010, 01:07 AM
i don't care about your previous post. the fact that Dayrl Morey, the statistical genius you worship, don't want him anymore trumps everything you say. and i know what i saw. i saw a Rockets team that played harder, hustled more, and played better without Tmac as oppose to with tmac.
LOL Morey was the one whos stats supported the idea that Tmac makes his teams better. Your mistaking Tmacs injured state with the majority of his actual contributions. You saw a guy on 1 leg, the team defense was so much better without him its no wonder the team was better off without him.

Morey would have loved having THAT +6-8 as he referred to Tmac. so your wrong about him making his teams worse, they always overachieved. Explain the teams record with and without Tmac throughout his career not when he was clearly playing despite needing surgery.

ldc62
07-23-2010, 01:17 AM
Tracy McGrady is one of tha best players to ever step foot on an NBA court and I'm not just sayin that cuz he my favorite player but its da truth

He would be one a few (1 or 2) people's Top 100 players list....

DODGERS&LAKERS
07-23-2010, 01:31 AM
:shrug: I dont hate him. He was a beast. Too bad he had bad injuries.

Chronz
07-23-2010, 12:56 PM
People who didn't watch him night in and night out just don't get it. The guy is a loser, plain and simple. A talented loser, but a loser. When you have that much talent, it's sickening to not put in the effort. He was a good player for his first two Rockets years, but he never had the winning attitude. McGrady constantly whined in the media if something didn't go right (often subtle shots at his teammates), he would give no effort on defense, and he'd just decide to take nights off. Yes, he usually stepped it up in the playoffs, but it's not good enough for him, he needed to put his team in a better position. What he did with his microfracture surgery (where he announced to the media after he almost got traded) was absolutely shameful.

Here's what McGrady does: he hides his laziness. He'll be an awful jumpshooter for a game or half a game, then turn it on so he's on the highlight reel, then everyone is happy, and then he does it again. He does not have the work ethic to win, he always showed up out of shape to training camp. His workouts with Grover were definitely the hardest working excercises he's probably ever done, but it's too late now. What else does a guy have to do for people to finally realize he's a cancer to any team he's on? He rubs his teammates the wrong way everywhere, Rafer Alston called him out, Ron Artest called him out, hell even Shane Battier said he was happy to finally have the "roster stable" after he was traded. Yao Ming, who's a fiercely loyal teammate and always voices his sadness to see a teammate go, never really seemed upset by his departure. Adelman called him unprofessional. Leslie Alexander, who was also fiercely loyal to McGrady and told Morey he was untouchable, quickly changed his stance after seeing McGrady give up on his team.

I know it was already posted, but watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjbkXewxlGI

How can somebody who loves the game of basketball not be disgusted by that? Regardless of the fact that injuries have diminished his game, McGrady's awful attitude would even dissuade me from considering him for the vet minimum. It always has to be about Tracy when he's on a team.
Can you provide any proof to your opinions, because I can totally shatter everything you said. I just wont waste my time unless you can prove your points.

Hawkeye15
07-23-2010, 01:00 PM
Is Mcgrady hated? I always thought it was unfortunate he and Yao just couldn't be healthy and playing great at the same time in the postseason, and many Houston fans feel he treated his last season and a half here poorly, but TMac has always been a community guy, and was easily a top 2-3 player for a few years.
Living in Houston, I don't even bother arguing with TMac haters. They write his whole career off because of 16 months

Stunner
07-23-2010, 01:10 PM
Is Mcgrady hated? I always thought it was unfortunate he and Yao just couldn't be healthy and playing great at the same time in the postseason, and many Houston fans feel he treated his last season and a half here poorly, but TMac has always been a community guy, and was easily a top 2-3 player for a few years.
Living in Houston, I don't even bother arguing with TMac haters. They write his whole career off because of 16 months

x2

CityofTreez
07-23-2010, 01:25 PM
I have no logic reason regarding this question?

T-Mac was a great player on the raptors, chose money and more PT and was ousted and booed from Toronto (which isn't rare). Leaving Orlando, he goes to Houston and has an awesome team. He & Yao earned playoff contention every year, but never won in the playoffs (labelled a choker, but look at his competition) Not really a choker.

I think it's his injuries. Fans label him an injury-riddled player who gives up and chokes in the playoffs.

I never had a problem until he was traded to the Knicks, hate them, and their players, just an bias compassion of hate.

T-Mac is a good guy, just gets roasted by NBA in general


But still people hate him, it's bizarre?

Verbal Christ
07-23-2010, 01:59 PM
please watch the vidoo, read the article and understand where houston rockets fans come from. Tmac had it all, shame management couldnt surround him with better talent before the injuries, but it wasnt the fact he was hurt, it was the fact that his mouth made it worse.


http://www.clutchfans.net/news/1545/the_day_t-mac_lost_houston/



Tracy McGrady had diehard Rockets fans at "hello" when the team acquired him from the Orlando Magic in 2004, and by the summer of 2005 he could have run for public office in the city and won by a landslide.
The 6-foot-8 wing was loaded with natural scoring talent, but his high basketball IQ and innate passing ability brought together a ragtag group of teammates and won over the masses in the city.

13 points in 33 seconds. "The Dunk" over Shawn Bradley. We're talking true Superstarville. Bringing the entire package at just 25 years old and gracing the court alongside Yao Ming, McGrady looked poised to deliver on the "big things" he promised in Houston.

So how exactly, in the span of a Presidential term, have things gone so horribly wrong for McGrady in Houston?

After the Rockets 40-point loss in Dallas in Game 7 in 2005, McGrady said, “I’m 25 years old and I’ve got a lot more years in this league, and I will be back next year. I will be back next year.”

I believed him. We believed him. Only, he wasn’t back the next year. While McGrady sat out some games with a legitimate back injury, the 2005-06 lottery season saw him miss many others for mysterious reasons.

McGrady returned strong the next season and played very well for much of the first half of 2007-08, but he still managed to feed his critics by how he responded when there was an uphill battle to climb. There was that game against Golden State. There was that game in Philadelphia. There were several games he just decided not to play in the final hour. While naysayers mocked McGrady’s "It's On Me" declaration (followed by "It Wasn't Really On Me"), this was something far more concerning. There was a growing sentiment that McGrady, while gloriously talented, was not the guy you wanted next to you in the foxhole if things started to go south.

Yet, while this voice of frustration was starting to build in the city towards McGrady, his rare talent and critical importance to the team drowned it out. He still had the support of the majority of the fans.

Then Toronto happened.



January 2, 2009. The Rockets are in Toronto to face the Raptors. The team and McGrady had just established that T-Mac would only play one game of back-to-backs, and with Atlanta to follow the next night, Toronto was chosen as the game T-Mac would play.

Or so we thought. T-Mac was badly off, shooting 2-9 from the floor to go with a pair of assists and turnovers. His body language was bad. With the game slipping in the third quarter, it went from bad to downright terrible.

The Rockets were down 17 and had the ball with 1:30 left in the quarter. Carl Landry gets the ball in the post, turns to score and hits a wall of two defenders in his grill. Why does he have two guys on him? Because there’s a Rocket player not in the play… not even in a panned camera view.

McGrady is standing a few feet from the halfcourt line.

Landry tries to pass to the only open guy by throwing a risky 30-foot laser. Like a safety, Raptors forward Jamario Moon swoops in to intercept and is taking it to the house. McGrady, because he was out of the play to begin with, has a good 5+ feet on Moon almost the entire way back down, but as they get to the basket, T-Mac plays the matador, letting Moon go right by him for an easy dunk.

The next play was much more damning.

Rafer Alston, Ron Artest, Luis Scola and Landry are all running a play. They’re all hustling. They’re all trying to make something happen. However, it takes five, baby.

McGrady is not in the play. Again. He’s standing just inside the halfcourt line. Again. When Scola gets an offensive rebound, he gets the ball back up top to McGrady, who has no interest, playing hot potato with it immediately.

By now it was evident. This wasn’t an injury. This was showing apathy. This was pouting. This was quitting.

McGrady confessed after the game he was a "little frustrated", but his source wasn’t an injury -- "It's kind of hard to get in the groove when you're only touching the ball once every five minutes," said McGrady.

And there you go. The effort qualified as both the straw that broke the camel's back for many Houston fans and the smoking gun for his critics.

From there, McGrady and the team went in opposite directions.

T-Mac took two weeks off to get in shape, proclaimed that he was now back to his normal self, then two weeks later announced on his own through ESPN, without so much as a Post-It note to the Rockets organization, that he was shutting it down to undergo microfracture surgery. When McGrady did show up at the arena, he was booed regularly by the Houston faithful.

Meanwhile, the team won 22 of their final 30 games, broke the first round playoff curse, pushed the eventual champions to 7 games and endeared themselves to the city by establishing an identity as a fearless, hard-working squad that never surrenders.

Now, just 6 months later, this same franchise is supposed to trumpet the return of the anti-Cal Ripken, the embodiment of apathy, excess and entitlement, as their offensive leader -- a forced marriage that now seems a painfully awkward fit.

This shouldn't be about hate, love, payback, insurance or rehab. It's also not about his talent, which isn't in question. It's about being confronted with the reality of what last season confirmed. It's about having a clear knowledge now that McGrady is not a guy you can count on. We know this now – we’ve put it to the test.

I've been a diehard Rockets fan for as long as I can remember, and I've often said I would EBay my soul for a few extra 'W's. As fate would have it, that's exactly what it would feel like I'd be doing by welcoming back McGrady with open arms and pretending the Toronto game just never happened

Chronz
07-23-2010, 02:11 PM
Nothing like one-sided journalism to rile up a fan base, yes we get that Houstonians dont like their stars behaving so egotistically. But considering everything hes given the city and the team, the world even. Doesnt the guy deserve more credit than what Clutch tried to portray in that article?

SC1211
07-23-2010, 02:40 PM
Can you provide any proof to your opinions, because I can totally shatter everything you said. I just wont waste my time unless you can prove your points.

You've been riding McGrady since I first started posting on here, what does it take for you to finally realize that he's been a loser his whole career? But you want proof? Is it a coincidence that the Rockets made it past the first round for the first time after McGrady went down? Is it a coincidence that the Rockets had a better winning % in 07-08 and 08-09 than without him? Dude, the guy stopped the ball on offense, and he didn't care by the end of his stint here, when guys were giving it their all. Did you watch the video of the Toronto game? Did you watch the Rockets consistently? If you didn't, then you don't have the perspective that most Houston fans did. People don't just hate superstars automatically, McGrady went from the most popular player in Houston to the least popular VERY quickly. There's a difference between giving up and being injured, and he gave up on the team.

How about this: what about the "It's on me" quote? It's on him? Then why did Yao score 15 points in the fourth quarter in game 7 against the Jazz while McGrady couldn't attack the basket? He may have a high playoff average, but his performance when it counted wasn't there. Sure, he had a good game 6 when Yao wasn't there, but there was no winning that series without Yao.

The problem is that he had so much more ability than what he utilized. If he had half the drive of Kobe he'd be considered one of the league's best. Instead, he became the epitome of wasted potential.

The kind of NBA fans that like McGrady are the same NBA fans that think Allen Iverson and Gilbert Arenas are NBA greats. Look, winning isn't everything, but effort is. If a guy can't get a ring but puts all his effort into the game and getting into shape, he deserves respect. But to watch McGrady just plain take nights off because he didn't feel like putting in the effort is awful.

Hawkeye15
07-23-2010, 02:45 PM
you are going to get crapped on by chronz. I too think he is a bit high on McGrady, but sets people up to bury man.

Stunner
07-23-2010, 02:47 PM
you are going to get crapped on by chronz. I too think he is a bit high on mcgrady, but sets people up to bury man.

lmao x2

Stunner
07-23-2010, 02:49 PM
And Iverson isnt a great player any more he is an above average now his body want allow him to play anymore. And Arenas is still a good player he was never great he is still a fringe All-Star player.

SC1211
07-23-2010, 02:53 PM
you are going to get crapped on by chronz. I too think he is a bit high on McGrady, but sets people up to bury man.

We had this argument a few times a couple seasons ago (I had been supporting a McGrady trade since 07-08), and it's always the same, yeah he was a great player in 06-07/before, but times have changed, and I don't think there's a compelling case to support him now.

I guess it's also a philosophy on basketball thing, I appreciate hard-working gritty basketball over stylish ball and even over winning every game (I'd much rather watch the Spurs than the Suns). With McGrady being the odd man out on an otherwise hardworking team, it was very frustrating to watch. The me-first attitude in basketball is awful to watch. Hell, I know I disagree with most Houston fans in saying that I also disliked Steve Francis. Sure, he worked hard, but his me-first attitude killed it for me as well.

Also, Chronz don't just count out Clutch as "one-sided journalism." This is a guy who literally has been the number one fan of the Rockets for a very long time, and has a lot of experience with a lot of different players. He voiced the feelings of a lot of Rockets fans with that article.

sep11ie
07-23-2010, 02:56 PM
Chronz has actually had intercorse with T-Mac.

Hawkeye15
07-23-2010, 02:57 PM
We had this argument a few times a couple seasons ago (I had been supporting a McGrady trade since 07-08), and it's always the same, yeah he was a great player in 06-07/before, but times have changed, and I don't think there's a compelling case to support him now.

I guess it's also a philosophy on basketball thing, I appreciate hard-working gritty basketball over stylish ball and even over winning every game (I'd much rather watch the Spurs than the Suns). With McGrady being the odd man out on an otherwise hardworking team, it was very frustrating to watch. The me-first attitude in basketball is awful to watch. Hell, I know I disagree with most Houston fans in saying that I also disliked Steve Francis. Sure, he worked hard, but his me-first attitude killed it for me as well.

Also, Chronz don't just count out Clutch as "one-sided journalism." This is a guy who literally has been the number one fan of the Rockets for a very long time, and has a lot of experience with a lot of different players. He voiced the feelings of a lot of Rockets fans with that article.

emotions can cloud things. And McGrady was awesome before he even came to Houston. Like I said, a couple years can make someone bitter as a fan, but it can't wipe the books clean of a ridiculous few years of play. Those years happened.

0nekhmer
07-23-2010, 02:58 PM
it's funny cause his career ppg is still at 20+ . this man has been injured for far too long, i hope he gets back to that level again. it's hard for anyone to hate an injured dude who was last known as a all star.

Stunner
07-23-2010, 03:00 PM
I have he going to have a Grant Hill career now. Being healthy when he got older and started treating his body better. He should go down there with the Suns and see what they are putting in the water.

JordansBulls
07-23-2010, 03:02 PM
you are going to get crapped on by chronz. I too think he is a bit high on McGrady, but sets people up to bury man.

the only series you really can blame Mcgrady on are the ones in 2007 and 2008, he is 0-2 with HCA and the Rockets were favorite both times. 2008 Yao was out, but the Rockets had that 22 game win streak without him.

nanablvd
07-23-2010, 03:04 PM
This man entertained the NBA for years. you cannot show a reel of NBA greatest highlights without him being on there. You mad cause he never been out the first round? he bust his *** every playoff series his team didn't, that is why we call it team sport. check his playoff numbers and compare them and see how high up he rank. Stop kicking a man when he's down, and thank him for the NBA moments he brought into you home.:clap:

1. 62 pt. game:clap:
2. Dunk on shawn bradley:clap:
3. all-star cross on Lebron James.:clap:
4. and lets not forget all-star game off the backboard to himself.:clap:

shall we continue?


I dont think tmac is hated by many; he's just not healthy enough to revive pple's confidence in him. He still has many fans even if he retires now.

MiamiWadeCounty
07-23-2010, 03:23 PM
i think he was a great player, but he has faded in the nba through injuries. I remember this the most. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKggO62YPs4
:facepalm:

Verbal Christ
07-23-2010, 03:35 PM
Nothing like one-sided journalism to rile up a fan base, yes we get that Houstonians dont like their stars behaving so egotistically. But considering everything hes given the city and the team, the world even. Doesnt the guy deserve more credit than what Clutch tried to portray in that article?

what has he given the city? during the playoff run of 08 the clown was practically rooting for the lakers. what exactly has he given the world? LOL the darfur thing, great PR by his people is all I can say. What did he give the team? Wasnt he the highest paid player in the league those years? Nobody has ever tried to discount his orlando days or the fact he's been one of the best playoff players ever, only the fact that when it gets tough, he quits. simple as that, then to compound the matters he opens his mouth and makes a fool of himself and his team.

Hawkeye15
07-23-2010, 03:40 PM
what has he given the city? during the playoff run of 08 the clown was practically rooting for the lakers. what exactly has he given the world? LOL the darfur thing, great PR by his people is all I can say. What did he give the team? Wasnt he the highest paid player in the league those years? Nobody has ever tried to discount his orlando days or the fact he's been one of the best playoff players ever, only the fact that when it gets tough, he quits. simple as that, then to compound the matters he opens his mouth and makes a fool of himself and his team.

this I can agree with. As long as everyone understands how awesome McGrady was, and even his first couple of years here, how good the dude really was. But he did in fact quit the last part of his tenure in Houston, and he has said a lot of stupid things over his career.

SeoulBeatz
07-23-2010, 03:42 PM
This man entertained the NBA for years. you cannot show a reel of NBA greatest highlights without him being on there. You mad cause he never been out the first round? he bust his *** every playoff series his team didn't, that is why we call it team sport. check his playoff numbers and compare them and see how high up he rank. Stop kicking a man when he's down, and thank him for the NBA moments he brought into you home.:clap:

1. 62 pt. game:clap:
2. Dunk on shawn bradley:clap:
3. all-star cross on Lebron James.:clap:
4. and lets not forget all-star game off the backboard to himself.:clap:

shall we continue?

these are bad examples. its not about the highlights.

he was the most dominant scorer in the NBA from 02-04

DR. Pepper
07-23-2010, 03:45 PM
hes not so much hated as he is looked down upon due to his lack of sucess as an elite player with a more than adequete supporting cast

Chronz
07-23-2010, 03:51 PM
hes not so much hated as he is looked down upon due to his lack of sucess as an elite player with a more than adequete supporting cast
The problem is that those people dont put things into proper context. For example, when Tmac was a truly elite player he lacked adequate support, when he was a top player in the game he had gotten some help but the teams/stars he faced had more. By the time he finally got adequate support he was no longer the star capable of accomplishing anything with it.

You cant just jumble a players entire career into such a short synopsis. Its like when people say Dream was so great because he played both ends equally well. When in reality Dream had a defensive peak and an offensive one that only intertwined for a season or 2.

Its why its just easier to say Tmacs teams always overachieved.

koLohe2133
07-23-2010, 03:53 PM
because his eye is annoying....



duh.


look at me when im talking to u playa!!! LOL

bedelato2
07-23-2010, 04:10 PM
T-mac is the laziest SOB around. I dont hate him he used to be favorite player. If he had a DECENT work ethic easy top 10 all time player in the league. Guys just lazy that pisses me off.

dtmagnet
07-23-2010, 04:20 PM
I have the same problem with him and Vince, both are amazingly talented but lack the work ethic to achieve greatness.

nacdaddy
07-23-2010, 04:23 PM
Chronz has actually had intercorse with T-Mac.

haha. :laugh:

i think ive figured it out though. chronz is either t-slack himself, his hom0 butt buddy, or a very highly paid pr agent. im putting my money on hom0 butt buddy.

LTS
07-23-2010, 04:28 PM
See what I mean about lacking perspective...


Im pretty sure him and Grant Hill talking about teaming up in the months leading up to FA meant he wasnt thinking about going to war by himself. It was only Grant Hills ankle that ensured Tmac never got the talent around him.


So this regular season game outweighs the fact that Tmac played through injuries in the playoffs, and gave the team his all when it mattered most. Man your finicky


Plenty of more credible people disagree with these unwarranted opinions.


In other words he was a star.


Incorrect, just because the Rockets medical staff lacked the capacity to know the extent of his injuries doesnt mean it was unnecessary, it only deems them ignorant. Its why one of the teams primary physicians has since apologized and quit. Tmac should have gotten the surgery alot sooner, but everyone kept feeding him false information. Obviously Tmac had his faults in this divorce, Im not disputing that. Only that he was caught in a bad situation and both sides are at fault.


Again, your opinion. Hes already stated hes far removed from his prime, but he believes in his ability to return to a game changing form. So be it, it doesnt make him a player who isnt about the team. Atleast not any more so than the majority of players in the league.


Umm of course the Rockets were better without an INJURED Tmac. He was trying to measure where he was at in his recovery. He couldnt do that in Houston so he left, and did so much more professionally than most. Heck hes done it twice so he knows the procedure.

And the rest of your post was typical hate as well


I think he covered it all but I like Tmac could of been amazing but he was still good and could still be a good 6th man

REALLYYYYY?
07-23-2010, 04:33 PM
it's because everything is his fault, obviously: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpQwZC_ChcM

Chronz
07-23-2010, 05:38 PM
Im not going to drag this out by posting every nonsensical remark. I only care about what you go about trying to prove, even though most of what your about to say ignores several subjects Ill blame myself for not quoting you directly like I have the others. Considering your history I wont lose sleep over it, Ill let you decide what you want to back up.



you want proof? Is it a coincidence that the Rockets made it past the first round for the first time after McGrady went down?
So your proof is a vague non-descriptive analysis of 2 playoff series involving separate competition and support? LOL sometimes I wonder why I even bother, NO it wasnt coincidence, it was the logical outcome all things considered. Those things being the following;

The COMPETITION
Utah was battle tested, deep, had the better record against winning teams (compared to the Rox who beat up on inferior squads all year) and featured several All-Stars still in form. The Blazers were young and inexperienced, lacking the talent to compete with a team that had essentially the same record only they amassed all those wins despite the Tmac saga bringing them down. In other words, the Rox were more talented this time around.


The Mismatches
Contrary to what people believe, basketball is not a game of mismatches, its a game of talent and probability. That said, when 2 teams are of equal abilities (like youd assume a 4-5 seed would) the team that has favorable depth and versatility should be favored.

You go about proving these exploits exist, by determining which strengths were being utilized and which weaknesses plopped up that didnt exist throughout most of the regular season. In other words, what did the Rockets do all year that they couldnt do in the series vs Utah and how does it differ from what Portland did.

To make long story short, the main piece that the Rockets were both unable to exploit against Utah and not have to worry about the Blazers exploiting was Yaos impact on both ends and on the defensive boards. The Rockets were always a club that relied heavily on Defense, and Yaos ability to clog/intimidate the lane was the biggest reason. Only with 2 bigmen able to take Yao out, he was constantly abused both individually and on rotations. JVG never opted to put Hayes on Boozer for fear of compromising his entire defensive scheme. Adelman was never faced with the issue but his game plan was the exact opposite, he put Hayes on Boozer and Boozer was unable to get going the way he had against Yao. The Blazers however were a team that featured natural centers with an old school approach that cost them G1. They insisted on single teaming Yao and without a way of beating him up defensively they essentially played into Yao's strengths and NONE of his weaknesses. In other words the Rockets had the mismatches for once, and it had NOTHING to do with Tmac.

Another contributing factor was the Rox were able to utilize Battier's Man-2-Man D abilities. Against the likes of Roy and Kobe, Battiers value is revealed. He can contain them without help better than most. Against a team like the Jazz that featured no perimeter scorer, Battiers key asset was non-existent. As a result his impact was easily offset by the likes of Harping, a guy Utah doesnt even start. That alone lets you know of the talent disparity in the 2 series.

THE SUPPORTING CAST
I doubt your foolish enough to assume (Like FACE did all those years ago) that the Rox had the talent to beat the Jazz WITHOUT Yao. So compare the productivity of the talent around the stars in both 07 and 09. Its not even close




Is it a coincidence that the Rockets had a better winning % in 07-08 and 08-09 than without him?
Umm 46-20 with him in 07-08, 9-7 without. Increased efficiency with him in the lineup, Yao was noticeably more effective with him than without. What exactly are you trying to prove here?

Even your own GM wouldnt agree with you on the Rox being better in 07-08 without Mac. That was the year Tmacs D began to slip considerably though, and it marked the start of his deep decline, the year he played through injuries in the playoff. Anyways tell me why again are we cherry picking the years you want? Why are we focusing so much on Tmac on 1 leg? Are we forgetting just how invaluable he was before the injuries?



Dude, the guy stopped the ball on offense, and he didn't care by the end of his stint here, when guys were giving it their all. Did you watch the video of the Toronto game? Did you watch the Rockets consistently? If you didn't, then you don't have the perspective that most Houston fans did. People don't just hate superstars automatically, McGrady went from the most popular player in Houston to the least popular VERY quickly. There's a difference between giving up and being injured, and he gave up on the team.
Chances are, Ive watched more Rocket games this decade than you have. Im almost certain I have more games saved of them, unless your a capper of any sort. You know all this, why are you acting like I dont frequently post at the Rockets board? So now tell me, why would a few regular season games with Tmac in the middle of a much more complex situation than your leading on, matter more to me than him putting his already frail body on the line when it mattered most and his mind clear of all doubts within the organization?



How about this: what about the "It's on me" quote? It's on him? Then why did Yao score 15 points in the fourth quarter in game 7 against the Jazz while McGrady couldn't attack the basket?
First of all the series wasnt won in moment of any particular game so thats not a very telling statement.

And why are you bringing Yao into this? If your going to minimize the entire outcome of the series into the smallest samples then why no mention of Yaos rebounding in the closing minutes when they were within 1 and Yao gave up several rebounds. How about the fact that Boozer completely eviscerated Yao.

Yes I know Yao later apologized for his lack of rebounding and this prolly endears him in your eyes but overall he was just as much at fault. Both struggled, but when your overmatched and your supporting cast does nothing to take some of the defensive attention away, you cant really hold it against them. Though I do hold Yao's lack of rebounding against him because it was something he was doing much better all year.



The problem is that he had so much more ability than what he utilized. If he had half the drive of Kobe he'd be considered one of the league's best. Instead, he became the epitome of wasted potential.

This has become cliche, if anyone had Kobes drive theyd be better. Ironically if theres anything Tmac would rather have its Kobes "ability" or rather his genetics. Besides I question your ability to gauge how he utilized his potential.

If Tmac epitomizes wasted potential then you have pathetic basketball IQ. Tmac isnt this lazy slob you wish he were, he got to where he was at because he worked at it. Its not his fault his body was a ticking time bomb, waiting to explode at the peak of his powers. You dont become as skilled as he did without diligently working on your game.



The kind of NBA fans that like McGrady are the same NBA fans that think Allen Iverson and Gilbert Arenas are NBA greats.
I dont like either of those guys, see the problem with your theories, they dont hold up to even the slightest amount of effort.


Look, winning isn't everything, but effort is. If a guy can't get a ring but puts all his effort into the game and getting into shape, he deserves respect. But to watch McGrady just plain take nights off because he didn't feel like putting in the effort is awful.
Youve missed out on most of Tmacs career if you think he didnt put forth effort. And what you expected of him is irrelevant, there are endless amount of players of whom this whole didnt try as hard as I wanted, holds true. Legends no less, some I bet you grew up idolizing only you were too young or too content with his stature to know everything about him.

Stunner
07-23-2010, 05:49 PM
it's because everything is his fault, obviously: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpQwZC_ChcM

lol i put that video up lmao

Mplsman
07-23-2010, 05:49 PM
Cuz he can't look you in the eye.

Chronz
07-23-2010, 05:56 PM
what has he given the city?
More than hes taken away thats for sure.


during the playoff run of 08 the clown was practically rooting for the lakers.
Only if you lack objectivity, given your fanhood nature I can see why you would think that. Yes Tmac could have been politically correct and lied, but what I find refreshing about Tmac is that hes often dead on with how he analyzes the game. I guess this is at the heart of our differences, you are a Rocket fan first. Im an NBA fan first. You favor loyalty and submission, Im more into equality and objectivity.


what exactly has he given the world? LOL the darfur thing, great PR by his people is all I can say.
If thats all you can say you dont have much to stand on.


What did he give the team? Wasnt he the highest paid player in the league those years? Nobody has ever tried to discount his orlando days or the fact he's been one of the best playoff players ever,
What he gave the team? Are you serious right now?


only the fact that when it gets tough, he quits. simple as that, then to compound the matters he opens his mouth and makes a fool of himself and his team.

Its not as simple as that, and the rest is your opinion. Like I could just as easily describe Tmac as a guy who doesnt want to take the easy way out. True he asked to be traded, but not to a contender. He could have gone to any # of teams on verge of a chip, instead he chose a fringe playoff team that he wanted to build up. He quit for reasons beyond it getting tough. He quit for reasons that dont do anything to really discredit or distinguish his career if your familiar with the history of the game. His actual on court contributions impact his legacy much more than any off court antic your describing.

But I guess theres a difference between why people should like him and why people should respect his legacy. Youve done a good job of separating the 2, but I doubt you know all the reasons for both.

USMCLaker
07-23-2010, 05:58 PM
Has TMac signed with anyone yet?

Stunner
07-23-2010, 06:03 PM
Has TMac signed with anyone yet?

nope He is working out with the Bulls on Monday hope we sign him. Asik gonna have to give up the number 3 jersey lol.

USMCLaker
07-23-2010, 06:07 PM
nope He is working out with the Bulls on Monday hope we sign him. Asik gonna have to give up the number 3 jersey lol.

Thanks for the info.

rjvacad
07-23-2010, 06:17 PM
He is not hated, teams are scared he will get hurt and they get nothing from him.

_KB24_
07-23-2010, 06:21 PM
T-Mac in his Orlando days was one of my favorite players of this era along with Kobe, Shaq, Iverson, and Carter. The whole Orlando bashing is complete crap and I never held him accountable for what happened their, even though that 19 game losing streak was not acceptable for any star. The whole Houston era is where I really got over the guy and realized I had wrongfully held him to my expectations. The guy, whether you like it or not, choked in the playoffs. He knew it himself, after that series lost in Utah, and it made it that much worse when the Rockets made it pass the 1st round against the Blazers.

I feel bad for him now and hope he does well wherever he goes. I think Chicago or LA is the best place for him. Him going to the Clips will only make his career that much more tarnished.

Chronz
07-23-2010, 06:23 PM
haha. :laugh:

i think ive figured it out though. chronz is either t-slack himself, his hom0 butt buddy, or a very highly paid pr agent. im putting my money on hom0 butt buddy.
Ill take it as a compliment that one of the options was a HIGHLY paid PR guy. Thnx bro


I have the same problem with him and Vince, both are amazingly talented but lack the work ethic to achieve greatness.
Not according to people whove worked out with Tmac


T-mac is the laziest SOB around. I dont hate him he used to be favorite player. If he had a DECENT work ethic easy top 10 all time player in the league. Guys just lazy that pisses me off.
Read above

Chronz
07-23-2010, 06:27 PM
T-Mac in his Orlando days was one of my favorite players of this era along with Kobe, Shaq, Iverson, and Carter. The whole Orlando bashing is complete crap and I never held him accountable for what happened their, even though that 19 game losing streak was not acceptable for any star. The whole Houston era is where I really got over the guy and realized I had wrongfully held him to my expectations. The guy, whether you like it or not, choked in the playoffs. He knew it himself, after that series lost in Utah, and it made it that much worse when the Rockets made it pass the 1st round against the Blazers.

I feel bad for him now and hope he does well wherever he goes. I think Chicago or LA is the best place for him. Him going to the Clips will only make his career that much more tarnished.
Is a 19 game losing streak really all that different from Kobe closing a playoff run 2-18 or something? If so please explain the difference.

Tell me how the Houston era means all that but not just that he had suffered injury setbacks?

How does the team making round 2 change anything?

Your confusing team success with individual contributions. For example Tmac has been a part of both a 22 game winning streak and a 19 game losing streak. But youll be damned if you think the 22 game streak Tmac was better able to help his team win.

Dig DEEPER into your analysis


PS The fact that this is the first a person has mentioned the 19 game losing streak tells me just how much times have changed. Nobody holds that against him now that those same fan bases have lived through Kobe demanding a trade, Wade losing 2 years of his career, Brons spectacle, and now CP3.

tmacsc2
07-23-2010, 06:34 PM
See what I mean about lacking perspective...


Im pretty sure him and Grant Hill talking about teaming up in the months leading up to FA meant he wasnt thinking about going to war by himself. It was only Grant Hills ankle that ensured Tmac never got the talent around him.


So this regular season game outweighs the fact that Tmac played through injuries in the playoffs, and gave the team his all when it mattered most. Man your finicky


Plenty of more credible people disagree with these unwarranted opinions.


In other words he was a star.


Incorrect, just because the Rockets medical staff lacked the capacity to know the extent of his injuries doesnt mean it was unnecessary, it only deems them ignorant. Its why one of the teams primary physicians has since apologized and quit. Tmac should have gotten the surgery alot sooner, but everyone kept feeding him false information. Obviously Tmac had his faults in this divorce, Im not disputing that. Only that he was caught in a bad situation and both sides are at fault.


Again, your opinion. Hes already stated hes far removed from his prime, but he believes in his ability to return to a game changing form. So be it, it doesnt make him a player who isnt about the team. Atleast not any more so than the majority of players in the league.


Umm of course the Rockets were better without an INJURED Tmac. He was trying to measure where he was at in his recovery. He couldnt do that in Houston so he left, and did so much more professionally than most. Heck hes done it twice so he knows the procedure.

And the rest of your post was typical hate as well
:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:
Amazing post man.....i couldnt agree more!!!!

pippsux
07-23-2010, 06:36 PM
I don't hate him anymore....u know why? Because he is not a rocket anymore...

Verbal Christ
07-23-2010, 07:45 PM
More than hes taken away thats for sure.


Only if you lack objectivity, given your fanhood nature I can see why you would think that. Yes Tmac could have been politically correct and lied, but what I find refreshing about Tmac is that hes often dead on with how he analyzes the game. I guess this is at the heart of our differences, you are a Rocket fan first. Im an NBA fan first. You favor loyalty and submission, Im more into equality and objectivity.


If thats all you can say you dont have much to stand on.


What he gave the team? Are you serious right now?


Its not as simple as that, and the rest is your opinion. Like I could just as easily describe Tmac as a guy who doesnt want to take the easy way out. True he asked to be traded, but not to a contender. He could have gone to any # of teams on verge of a chip, instead he chose a fringe playoff team that he wanted to build up. He quit for reasons beyond it getting tough. He quit for reasons that dont do anything to really discredit or distinguish his career if your familiar with the history of the game. His actual on court contributions impact his legacy much more than any off court antic your describing.

But I guess theres a difference between why people should like him and why people should respect his legacy. Youve done a good job of separating the 2, but I doubt you know all the reasons for both.


Do you really think tmac told darryl morey WHERE to trade him? i highly doubt that bro. and out of curiousity what exactly do you think tracy mcgrady gave the houston rockets? the guy was paid well in excess of 100 MILLION dollars while here, with promises of grandeur only to be erased with teary eyed prophesy of things never to come. see its fairly obvious that tmac hate strikes a nerve with you, but while all you are willing to do is cite subjectivity among 'gentiles' who dont have a similar grasp of history and/or legacy qualifications you fail to admit yourself how grossly wrong tmac was himself, only to extend as far as blaming team doctors (james andrews just so happens to be one of the most respected surgeons in professional sports by the way) and he himself said plenty of positives about tmacs injury and it just boiled down to the fact that tmac didnt respond as well as say amare or jason kidd. it happens, not tmacs fault, but defintely not fair to place blame on a doctor who has no agenda and himself is only trying to do his job. and to be blunt, yeah tmac as a member of the houston rockets SHOULD HAVE LIED and rode with the rockets, mainly because he was still part of the freaking team, fan or no of the rockets that was real low and shallow. after i posted what i felt was the best way to verbalize FROM A ROCKET FAN perspective (clutch by the way is very respected amongst many internet blogs and even pro journalists) all you could say was that you couldnt believe clutch would write such a piece, without elaborating about the evidence at hand, curious to hear your take on the toronto debacle, because the tape does not lie. furthermore i firmly believe that if tmac had been more professional about the whole situation and went about things differently ie.. shut the hell up, rehab and wish for the best without being a distraction on the team then the fans would never had turned on him, and not just houston fan. again nobody here has even attempted to discredit his numbers, on the contrary many have lauded his accomplishments, yet you cant seem to see both sides and only embolden the hate spewing by making tmac out to be some kind of saint, and nothing could be further from the truth. always fun mixing it up with you chron, everybody knows that you are well informed and live in your facts and stats, but sometimes bro you have to look outside the box and attempt to be more objective yourself and take all things into account. sorry i didnt multiquote you to make things easier, and it'll be hell for you to multiquote this whole ramble but im pretty much done with this argument, i feel like its the millionth time i've regurgitated the same crap, peace out.

Stunner
07-23-2010, 09:07 PM
I still want T-Mac on the Bulls.

Chronz
07-23-2010, 09:11 PM
Do you really think tmac told darryl morey WHERE to trade him? i highly doubt that bro. and out of curiousity what exactly do you think tracy mcgrady gave the houston rockets?
I dont know how I gave you the impression that he chose NY, but its standard operating procedure for players and management to discuss preferences. Its understood that whoever has the leverage depends on the structure of the contract and the ability of the player. Given Tmac was an expiring corpse, he had absolutely no leverage. But this also plays into Tmacs favor. The team looking to acquire him isnt doing so for his ability but the cap relief. A simple buyout would be all that prevents Tmac from going where hes wanted regardless. So neither side is really going to force the issue.



the guy was paid well in excess of 100 MILLION dollars while here, with promises of grandeur only to be erased with teary eyed prophesy of things never to come. Why would I care about him barely clearing the 100Million threshold? NBA stars make millions? YOUR SHITTIN ME... Tmac promised winning? How dare he. If you want to argue about how his salary effected the team lets hear it. If your trying to argue the value or productive return on the investment, then lets have at it Morey.


see its fairly obvious that tmac hate strikes a nerve with you, but while all you are willing to do is cite subjectivity among 'gentiles' who dont have a similar grasp of history and/or legacy qualifications you fail to admit yourself how grossly wrong tmac was himself, only to extend as far as blaming team doctors (james andrews just so happens to be one of the most respected surgeons in professional sports by the way) and he himself said plenty of positives about tmacs injury and it just boiled down to the fact that tmac didnt respond as well as say amare or jason kidd. it happens, not tmacs fault, but defintely not fair to place blame on a doctor who has no agenda and himself is only trying to do his job.
We both know it was more than just one physician on the team, and dont want to bring up an old debate from centuries ago but there were OTHER reports on Andrew that werent so favorable so lets not try to make him holier than he is. The reason Tmac didnt respond well was because he didnt adequately strengthen the knee. Yes its on him but it was also on Dr whatshisface who resigned shortly after the debacle, didnt do his part in measuring the stage of Tmacs rehabilitation, Tmac said he didnt feel like he could start the season but if the Drs cleared him he would play anyways. Turns out they should have never cleared him, even if it was partly Macs fault.


and to be blunt, yeah tmac as a member of the houston rockets SHOULD HAVE LIED and rode with the rockets, mainly because he was still part of the freaking team, fan or no of the rockets that was real low and shallow. after i posted what i felt was the best way to verbalize FROM A ROCKET FAN perspective
I suppose thats your right as a die hard fan, nothing I can say will sway you. But there are Rocket fans who can be NBA fans first.


(clutch by the way is very respected amongst many internet blogs and even pro journalists) all you could say was that you couldnt believe clutch would write such a piece, without elaborating about the evidence at hand, curious to hear your take on the toronto debacle, because the tape does not lie.
I never said Clutch wasnt respected, but I wasnt about to write another essay on top of everything Ive already gone to great lengths to explain. But if its a rebuttal you wish to see, go to CF and read a few from your brothers, Im not alone here.

Its a great piece of writing that fuels the fire of animosity for sure, but it reeks of living in the moment, to be so harsh to a player who clearly gave everything his body could muster is overblowing a brief stretch of games, when compared to several years of commendable service to the community and the team. Thats what he gave the team. He had earned his stripes after the Dallas series. He willed that undermanned, under talented team to the brink of the greatest upset from a star player to an elite team. After that he dedicated his offseason regimen like never before, at the age of 25 or whatever he seemed prime to fulfill on his promises. What happened after that is surrounded in controversy, there are all sorts of allegations to why Tmacs body gave out, if you want me to break that down I can but ultimately all that matters is that it wasnt what either side planned on. You cant fault Tmac for his genetics, even if for awhile they gave him the tools necessary to dominate like no other.



furthermore i firmly believe that if tmac had been more professional about the whole situation and went about things differently ie.. shut the hell up, rehab and wish for the best without being a distraction on the team then the fans would never had turned on him, and not just houston fan. again nobody here has even attempted to discredit his numbers, on the contrary many have lauded his accomplishments, yet you cant seem to see both sides and only embolden the hate spewing by making tmac out to be some kind of saint, and nothing could be further from the truth. always fun mixing it up with you chron, everybody knows that you are well informed and live in your facts and stats, but sometimes bro you have to look outside the box and attempt to be more objective yourself and take all things into account. sorry i didnt multiquote you to make things easier, and it'll be hell for you to multiquote this whole ramble but im pretty much done with this argument, i feel like its the millionth time i've regurgitated the same crap, peace out.
Well said

REALLYYYYY?
07-23-2010, 09:30 PM
lol i put that video up lmao

yeah i think i discovered it because of you posting it before :)

TEXASTITAN
07-23-2010, 09:36 PM
Im sorry since when does averaging 28 PPG in the playoffs (one of the highest in NBA history) considered choking? Its easy to blame the star player of the team for ***k sakes people claimed Lebron choked in the ECF 2 years ago and he averaged 35 PPG.

Look at the teams he's been on and tell me they didn't overachieve. He never had a legit sidekick because they were both constantly hurt. He carried that 07-08 Rockets team to 22 game win streak and won 12 of them without Yao. But by time playoffs come around Yao's done for the season and Rafer didn't return until the last game and T-Mac was forced to do it by himself because nobody else wanted to show up.

Which has been the story for Mcgrady's career, he shows up but nobody else does. You guys need to stop blaming the star players for choking when you know they're giving it their all to win (like averaging 28 PPG in the playoffs) and blame the teammates that surround them.

Averaged 28 ppg and hasn't got out of the first round of the playoffs. And when he DIDN'T play the rockets made it out of the first round and pushed the lakers to 7 games WITHOUT him. The guy was toxic to the rockets and they have been a better team without him thats not an opinion thats a fact. And yes he's the one who said ''it's all on me'' so guess what the failures in his career have all been his fault you can't claim responsibility and then shy away from it when things don't go your way it was his team and his fault.

NYKNYGNYY
07-23-2010, 09:36 PM
he can get hated into the h.o.f

bholly
07-23-2010, 09:37 PM
I didnt know there are alot of people hate for T-mac.

This. Look at his All-star votes - he's one of the most loved players there is.
By 'hate' do you mean 'realistic assessment of his current abilities'?

TEXASTITAN
07-23-2010, 09:44 PM
I dont know how I gave you the impression that he chose NY, but its standard operating procedure for players and management to discuss preferences. Its understood that whoever has the leverage depends on the structure of the contract and the ability of the player. Given Tmac was an expiring corpse, he had absolutely no leverage. But this also plays into Tmacs favor. The team looking to acquire him isnt doing so for his ability but the cap relief. A simple buyout would be all that prevents Tmac from going where hes wanted regardless. So neither side is really going to force the issue.


Why would I care about him barely clearing the 100Million threshold? NBA stars make millions? YOUR SHITTIN ME... Tmac promised winning? How dare he. If you want to argue about how his salary effected the team lets hear it. If your trying to argue the value or productive return on the investment, then lets have at it Morey.


We both know it was more than just one physician on the team, and dont want to bring up an old debate from centuries ago but there were OTHER reports on Andrew that werent so favorable so lets not try to make him holier than he is. The reason Tmac didnt respond well was because he didnt adequately strengthen the knee. Yes its on him but it was also on Dr whatshisface who resigned shortly after the debacle, didnt do his part in measuring the stage of Tmacs rehabilitation, Tmac said he didnt feel like he could start the season but if the Drs cleared him he would play anyways. Turns out they should have never cleared him, even if it was partly Macs fault.


I suppose thats your right as a die hard fan, nothing I can say will sway you. But there are Rocket fans who can be NBA fans first.


I never said Clutch wasnt respected, but I wasnt about to write another essay on top of everything Ive already gone to great lengths to explain. But if its a rebuttal you wish to see, go to CF and read a few from your brothers, Im not alone here.

Its a great piece of writing that fuels the fire of animosity for sure, but it reeks of living in the moment, to be so harsh to a player who clearly gave everything his body could muster is overblowing a brief stretch of games, when compared to several years of commendable service to the community and the team. Thats what he gave the team. He had earned his stripes after the Dallas series. He willed that undermanned, under talented team to the brink of the greatest upset from a star player to an elite team. After that he dedicated his offseason regimen like never before, at the age of 25 or whatever he seemed prime to fulfill on his promises. What happened after that is surrounded in controversy, there are all sorts of allegations to why Tmacs body gave out, if you want me to break that down I can but ultimately all that matters is that it wasnt what either side planned on. You cant fault Tmac for his genetics, even if for awhile they gave him the tools necessary to dominate like no other.



Well said

3 playoff series in 4 years and 2 exits with a 2-0 lead on tmac's watch thats why he's hated in houston. He's NEVER had the killer instinct ability to close when the game is on the line and he needs to come up clutch. You can blame injuries or whatever you want but don't neglect the facts because your a fan of the guy.

toovey107
07-23-2010, 10:00 PM
I hate on him just meerly bc some people cannot let go of the past and realize that well, he is just simply trash at this point in his career.

Kashmir13579
07-23-2010, 10:20 PM
I didnt know there are alot of people hate for T-mac.

yea because you'd have to be an idiot to hate tmac. surprisingly, in the knicks forums lately i have seen many people hating on him. i tell em tmac is a bball god and deserves respect for his undeniable talent.

_KB24_
07-23-2010, 10:49 PM
Is a 19 game losing streak really all that different from Kobe closing a playoff run 2-18 or something? If so please explain the difference. I don't know what season what your referring to in the "2-18", but yes, it IS a big difference. Losing 19 games with a Top 5 player, in some eyes the best in the league, is not acceptable, especially in the dreaded Eastern Conference. That was pathetic. Him alone should have atleast been able to pull together a single win, but ni,


Tell me how the Houston era means all that but not just that he had suffered injury setbacks? Because he still played in meaningful playoff series and lost dude. I can't buy the injury excuse when your willing to play and lose. Even in Orlando when he made that infamous prediction leading 3-1 against the Pistons, and they needed up losing, I didn't hold him that accountable considering his team. But losing to the Jazz when you are leading in the series and have a good team, was a back burner.


How does the team making round 2 change anything? Did you really just ask that? :eyebrow: I don't know, maybe it means you are a capable leader.....


Your team success with individual contributions. For example Tmac has been a part of both a 22 game winning streak and a 19 game losing streak. But youll be damned if you think the 22 game streak Tmac was better able to help his team win. confusing which made him look that much more worse when he ended up choking in the playoff against the Jazz.
.

Chronz
07-24-2010, 01:09 AM
3 playoff series in 4 years and 2 exits with a 2-0 lead on tmac's watch thats why he's hated in houston. He's NEVER had the killer instinct ability to close when the game is on the line and he needs to come up clutch. You can blame injuries or whatever you want but don't neglect the facts because your a fan of the guy.
Im sorry but 2-0 lead when your undermanned or less talented as a unit isnt something that historically leads to a win in the series. Try again



I don't know what season what your referring to in the "2-18"
When Kobe missed the playoffs he went on a similarly bad losing streak, everything you said of Tmac holds true for him.


Because he still played in meaningful playoff series and lost dude. I can't buy the injury excuse when your willing to play and lose. Even in Orlando when he made that infamous prediction leading 3-1 against the Pistons, and they needed up losing, I didn't hold him that accountable considering his team. But losing to the Jazz when you are leading in the series and have a good team, was a back burner.
I dont understand your logic, him playing in a meaningful playoff series? What exactly is a meaningless playoff series?

Tmac going up 3-1 and losing to the top seeded team is no different than Kobe (you could literally replace Kobes name with several ALL-TIME greats) losing a series up 3-1 as 2-7 seed. Tmac allegedly gauranteeing something doesnt change the fact that he had already overachieved with that squad. Its as if Tmac would be seen in higher light if he had just sucked the playoff series and gotten swept like what usually happens in such talent mismatches.


Did you really just ask that? I don't know, maybe it means you are a capable leader.....
Why? Yes its a valid question, Ive seen far inferior players to Tmac "lead" their team to the 2nd round. **** Ive seen inferior players "lead" their team to the Finals. Has very little to do with leadership abilities and everything to do with the collective abilities of his teammates.


which made him look that much more worse when he ended up choking in the playoff against the Jazz.
Umm ok even if you were right, you completely sidestepped the point I was making. Are you seriously debating or just looking to throw a *****fit? The point was that the Tmac that atleast had the opportunity to "choke" in the playoffs, had more team success than the guy who lost 19 in a row.

J_M_B
07-24-2010, 01:34 AM
I love T-Mac..

One of my favorite players all time :)

MaHaRaJaH
07-24-2010, 04:23 AM
Did you really just ask that? I don't know, maybe it means you are a capable leader.....
One of the most over stated lies about a rule that probably never existed, if it did it SURELY is obsolete today. One man does NOT lead championship, a team full of TALENT does. This **** about being a leader is nothing more than a myth fans and the media create to help worship a player.

cmellofan15
07-24-2010, 04:28 AM
Chronz is kicking *** and taking names. obviously the virgins fell first.

KNOCKOUT
07-24-2010, 04:44 AM
i personally believe he gave 100% effort in playoff runs, his team falls asleep on him. look at the group in Orlando he was playing with

Jeff559
07-24-2010, 04:48 AM
I don't hate you t mac!

Dallas Tx4Life
07-24-2010, 04:48 AM
I love T-Mac..

One of my favorite players all time :)

Agreed.. T-Mac was the shiiiit back in the day, no doubt

PHX2daDEATH
07-24-2010, 04:59 AM
Don't know if this has been said yet but Tracy McGrady + Healthy Grant Hill + Okay big man = Finals appearances, no titles..but the fact he never made it out of the first round of the east hurts him a lot

knickfan33
07-24-2010, 05:04 AM
This man entertained the NBA for years. you cannot show a reel of NBA greatest highlights without him being on there. You mad cause he never been out the first round? he bust his *** every playoff series his team didn't, that is why we call it team sport. check his playoff numbers and compare them and see how high up he rank. Stop kicking a man when he's down, and thank him for the NBA moments he brought into you home.:clap:

1. 62 pt. game:clap:
2. Dunk on shawn bradley:clap:
3. all-star cross on Lebron James.:clap:
4. and lets not forget all-star game off the backboard to himself.:clap:

shall we continue?

1. no rings
2. no knees
3. never seen the second round
4. who is shawn bradley?
5. Iverson crossed Jordan, has no job now,
6. there is no Defence in the all star game so who gives a ****

knickfan33
07-24-2010, 05:07 AM
And i don't hate him, he is jut not the great player everyone makes him out to be.

PHX2daDEATH
07-24-2010, 05:08 AM
:clap:
I don't hate him anymore....u know why? Because he is not a rocket anymore...

:clap:

MaHaRaJaH
07-24-2010, 08:39 AM
You guys need to read some of the previous posts

Nighthawk
07-24-2010, 08:53 AM
you guys make me laugh. Theres ONE reason he hated

this 1 min 42 second video will explain


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpQwZC_ChcM

ntat
07-24-2010, 09:02 AM
Because he's a career loser,chokes in the playoffs,all about himself,quit on his team,wants to be the attention whore/superstar/primadonna. He quit on the rockets before he was traded he shut himself down for surgery that the rockets deemed unnecessary and he did it anyway. When he comes back he cries about playing time and when he gets time he doesn't perform. He's toxic to a team with championship aspirations because he lacks confidence and a team first mentality. He still thinks he's the player that won scoring titles back in the day when the fact is he's NEVER going to be that player again. He's that over the hill star that just won't go away even when all the signs are there that it's time to quit he's hanging around looking to leach off of a playoff contender still trying to get out of the first round. If you truly think about it the story is sad i pity the guy in a way because he wants to win a championship in a team sport when all the can think about is himself and for some reason he can't seem to understand it. He's never won anything but individual awards and the rockets were actually a better team with him gone the chemistry was better and we robbed the knicks in the deal. And everything the original poster listed are individual achievements and do absolutely nothing to help your team that just further proves my point that the guy is his own worst enemy.

Thats a big time misconception. He actually has one of the best sets of statistics across the board in the playoffs. His teams have never been THAT good.

tr3ymill3r
07-24-2010, 09:24 AM
I'm a Rockets fan and I wouldn't say any of us from Houston hate TMac, I would just say disappointed. When we made the trade we were told this was going to be the second coming of Shaq and Kobe with Tmac and Yao. However with both guys as injury prone as they are we never got to see that team emerge. Not to mention he hasn't won anything, scoring titles and dunks on other guys are great for SportsCenter, but in the end it's all about winning. Winning is a cure for everything.

olrales
07-24-2010, 09:55 AM
Why do we hate Volkswagens??? Cauz' it's always broken and it's expensive...

Why do teams and us hate T-Mac?!? Look at the answer for the volkswagens!!! LOL

gmm902
07-24-2010, 10:42 AM
didnt mention the best of all the 13 points in 35 secs to win the game

slack_justin
07-24-2010, 11:51 AM
I Always have like T-Mac. But he just had really high expectations still a solid career and a player..

GrkGawdofWalkz
02-15-2011, 06:49 PM
I just would like to know why he gets so many threads. He's never done anything in his NBA career. He whines and fakes injuries to get out of series and cities. He's not a franchise player.

Gators123
02-15-2011, 06:52 PM
I just would like to know why he gets so many threads. He's never done anything in his NBA career. He whines and fakes injuries to get out of series and cities. He's not a franchise player.

This thread is 7 months old, you bumped it up just to say that?

ManRam
02-15-2011, 06:56 PM
I'll never hate T-Mac. What he did for the Magic when they were the worst team in the league (not because of him) is admirable to say the least. He'd play 40 minutes a night game in and game out, sacrificing his body just to win. He took a beating, and often played through injuries he shouldn't have. I really think the reason he has so many problems now is because of his passionate, yet reckless, play in Orlando. He was truly reckless, a lot like AI...and that's why AI fell off so quick. Kobe is one of the first modern players to become conscientious of this and change his game up to prolong his career...and for good reason.

I really have nothing but respect for him because of that. I understand Houston fans not really being too fond of him, but that's not my concern.

I'll try to find the article I just read about him and his Orlando days, illustrating how he really did give his all for those 4 seasons, and how it is almost unquestionable that he is paying for it now. I can't remember what magazine I found it in....

EDIT: This is just a bumped thread...lame.

sep11ie
02-15-2011, 07:11 PM
He's only hated in Toronto, Orlando, and Houston.

farren.louis
02-15-2011, 07:21 PM
Because he's a career loser,chokes in the playoffs,all about himself,quit on his team,wants to be the attention whore/superstar/primadonna. He quit on the rockets before he was traded he shut himself down for surgery that the rockets deemed unnecessary and he did it anyway. When he comes back he cries about playing time and when he gets time he doesn't perform. He's toxic to a team with championship aspirations because he lacks confidence and a team first mentality. He still thinks he's the player that won scoring titles back in the day when the fact is he's NEVER going to be that player again. He's that over the hill star that just won't go away even when all the signs are there that it's time to quit he's hanging around looking to leach off of a playoff contender still trying to get out of the first round. If you truly think about it the story is sad i pity the guy in a way because he wants to win a championship in a team sport when all the can think about is himself and for some reason he can't seem to understand it. He's never won anything but individual awards and the rockets were actually a better team with him gone the chemistry was better and we robbed the knicks in the deal. And everything the original poster listed are individual achievements and do absolutely nothing to help your team that just further proves my point that the guy is his own worst enemy.

CHOKES IN THE PLAYOFFS!!! show his playoffs stats in your next quote and then slap the ******* out yourself lol

Sadds The Gr8
02-15-2011, 07:22 PM
good player, douche bag person. i don't like him.

farren.louis
02-15-2011, 07:25 PM
I just would like to know why he gets so many threads. He's never done anything in his NBA career. He whines and fakes injuries to get out of series and cities. He's not a franchise player.

you mean he isnt a franchise player NOW RIGHT?? cause the houston and orlando t-mac was UNSTOPPABLE for a while he was better than kobe

Kashmir13579
02-15-2011, 07:33 PM
ummm... he is? i love T-Mac

ballhog or not, at least he was efficient.

TO to the CHI
02-15-2011, 07:42 PM
See what I mean about lacking perspective...


Im pretty sure him and Grant Hill talking about teaming up in the months leading up to FA meant he wasnt thinking about going to war by himself. It was only Grant Hills ankle that ensured Tmac never got the talent around him.


You are a pretty knowledgeable poster, but this is purely revisionist history. TMac publicly stated that he wanted to lead his own team as the number one option, which was the main reason Toronto fans were pissed that he left to join another team with a bigger star. Moreover, the rumor that summer was Hill and Duncan were planning on teaming up in Orlando and that was the Magic's focus. TMac was merely a fall back after Duncan didn't go there.

TO to the CHI
02-15-2011, 07:58 PM
CHOKES IN THE PLAYOFFS!!! show his playoffs stats in your next quote and then slap the ******* out yourself lol

What am I missing here? He averaged over 3 turnovers per game every year he was in the playoffs except for one, his career playoff shooting percentage is 43% and he shot 30% from 3. Not surprisingly, he never made it out of the first round. You can refer to points per game all you want, but that's because he averaged well over 20 shots a game.

You might cite his 33+ PPG in 2000-2001 as being dominant. I would look at his average of over 30 shots a game and shooting percentages of .415 from the floor and .200 from 3 and be pretty unimpressed.

farren.louis
02-15-2011, 08:12 PM
What am I missing here? He averaged over 3 turnovers per game every year he was in the playoffs except for one, his career playoff shooting percentage is 43% and he shot 30% from 3. Not surprisingly, he never made it out of the first round. You can refer to points per game all you want, but that's because he averaged well over 20 shots a game.

You might cite his 33+ PPG in 2000-2001 as being dominant. I would look at his average of over 30 shots a game and shooting percentages of .415 from the floor and .200 from 3 and be pretty unimpressed.
oh your just a hater lol i thought you could make a Legit case but 3trno 41% shooting was the best you could come up wit... SMH

TO to the CHI
02-15-2011, 08:19 PM
oh your just a hater lol i thought you could make a Legit case but 3trno 41% shooting was the best you could come up wit... SMH

If you listen carefully, you can actually hear your credibility plummeting. I assumed your post was sarcastic, but then realized that you might just be an idiot.

Provide the stats that show he was good.

lvlheaded
02-15-2011, 08:29 PM
I personally love T-Mac. Was he a saint? No, but when healthy the man played his heart out and was one of the best in the game...can't fault him for that

MJ-BULLS
02-15-2011, 08:36 PM
I used to be a big Tracy McGrady fan. But I think the big reason why a lot of people have some hatred towards Tracy, is because, he never really got out of the first round in the playoffs. I think some JB comes some hate also. but I wouldn't want him in my team.

mttwlsn16
02-15-2011, 08:42 PM
He represented his country well... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC_PWKca8sA)

hahahah i love how he just stood under the basket for a few seconds before dunking


LOVE TMAC

John Walls Era
02-15-2011, 08:59 PM
2,3,4 are weak reasons.... now I hate him even more.

smith&wesson
02-15-2011, 09:01 PM
theres definatley a trend. when players like iverson, vince carter, & tmac were playing at a high level in theyre prime every one loved them. when these players got old and werent a shell of theyre former self fans turned on them. its kinda stupid how alot fans have such bad memory.

im a toronto fan, and ill tell you striaght up i loved vince and i loved tmac. its hard to love them now that they arent nearly as good as they once were. but i apreciate all the memories, and i respect theyre legacy. throw iverson in there too. dude had some crazy crazy games, and i loved watching all these guys when i was a kid.

John Walls Era
02-15-2011, 09:02 PM
I personally love T-Mac. Was he a saint? No, but when healthy the man played his heart out and was one of the best in the game...can't fault him for that

Then how come him and his cousin are known as losers who quit?

Chronz
02-15-2011, 09:08 PM
You are a pretty knowledgeable poster, but this is purely revisionist history. TMac publicly stated that he wanted to lead his own team as the number one option, which was the main reason Toronto fans were pissed that he left to join another team with a bigger star. Moreover, the rumor that summer was Hill and Duncan were planning on teaming up in Orlando and that was the Magic's focus. TMac was merely a fall back after Duncan didn't go there.
Thx but I disagree, Tmac stated the main reason for going there was to play at home. Before becoming a free agent he and Grant Hill discussed the possibility of teaming up in Orlando. Doesnt sound like someone wanting to be the sole option, just a guy who wants a bigger role and a spotlight away from Vinsanity.

He was promised a main option role before leaving Toronto anyways, the main difference was that he could play this role close to home and alongside a superior player to Vince.

farren.louis
02-15-2011, 09:15 PM
If you listen carefully, you can actually hear your credibility plummeting. I assumed your post was sarcastic, but then realized that you might just be an idiot.

Provide the stats that show he was good.
Career 38 38 42.2min .430fg .3013pt .756ftw 6.9reb 6.2ast 1.3stl 1.1bpg 28.5ppg
there goes his stats.. not what are you complaining about??? where is the choking???? oh 236ast to 112trns not too bad man be honest with yourself you can't complain about that 28 6 6 i mean how many guys have done that?????

FadeAwayLikeMJ
02-15-2011, 09:20 PM
It amazes me how much the word "hate" gets thrown around this forum. Hi haters!!!

How can you hate a man you has never impacted your REAL life. Smh

Anyway, I think people hate cause he washed up kinds quickly. I dunno

Heater4life
02-15-2011, 09:30 PM
Whos Tracy McGrady???

:confused:

Phenomenonsense
02-15-2011, 10:07 PM
They hate him because Tmac accidentally the whole thing.

NJBASEBALL22
02-15-2011, 11:07 PM
It amazes me how much the word "hate" gets thrown around this forum. Hi haters!!!

How can you hate a man you has never impacted your REAL life. Smh

Anyway, I think people hate cause he washed up kinds quickly. I dunno

:clap:

footballer2369
02-15-2011, 11:07 PM
Why is T Mac so irrelevant?

NJBASEBALL22
02-15-2011, 11:18 PM
I love TMac. Could easily be argued that he is the top wing of the first half of this decade.

Playoff failures? Sure that's why people hate him but those Magic teams had no business being in the playoffs. No other active (at the time) perimeter player but Kobe and maybe Iverson take that team to the playoffs. He choked their? Playing top seeds that were gunning for him, the teams only option. TMac could be a team by himself, teams made him the main focus, so his percentages dipped a bit but he still put up great numbers. He almost beat the soon champ Pistons by himself, one of the best defensive teams in a while and he dropped 40 on them twice and shot 45%. Who did you want to take the shots that game? Pat Garrity? Maybe the deadly accurate Darrell Armstrong? The starters during the Pistons series was 1. Jacque Vaughn (who the ***** is that) 2. Gordan Girick 3. TMac 4. Drew Gooden 5. Andrew DeClercq Bench Darrell Armstrong and Pat Garrity. THAT TEAM TOOK THE SOON TO BE NBA CHAMPS TO SEVEN GAMES! WOW!

NJBASEBALL22
02-15-2011, 11:21 PM
As for TMac being selfish? He seems to be taking his current role in Detroit of PG and back up SG very well. 23 minutes a game and only taking 8 shots a game and averaging 3.3 assists a game. Sounds selfish. Its not like he is jacking up shots. He is playing a team game and looking for his teammates. Pretty selfish.

BRICKCITYPIMP12
02-15-2011, 11:25 PM
i hated him when he was good.. not as a player cuz he was good and i knew it but bcuz he was cocky...but i mean i started to like him and yes he has entertained alot and i dont have any hate for tmac.

Gram
02-16-2011, 09:26 AM
i hated him when he was good.. not as a player cuz he was good and i knew it but bcuz he was cocky...but i mean i started to like him and yes he has entertained alot and i dont have any hate for tmac.

I never thought he was cocky...he just had that same sleepy eyed expression on the whole time.

tangent12
02-16-2011, 10:18 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjbkXewxlGI

The man is a pathetic loser who waited till it was too late to fix his image.

ttam68
02-16-2011, 10:22 AM
I hope you don't remember him by 2, 3 and 4. The crazy 11 pts (or something) in 41 secs was better.

But back to the question: Because when the Rockets were trying to trade him 2 seasons ago, he didn't want to go to a bad team so he opt for surgery so no team would want him (according to Bill Simmons).

I've never heard that, but I call BS on BS.

Maybe he got surgery because he had a nagging injury for 5 consecutive seasons? Why the **** would he rather jeopardize the rest of his career than be traded?

ttam68
02-16-2011, 11:29 AM
What am I missing here? He averaged over 3 turnovers per game every year he was in the playoffs except for one, his career playoff shooting percentage is 43% and he shot 30% from 3. Not surprisingly, he never made it out of the first round. You can refer to points per game all you want, but that's because he averaged well over 20 shots a game.

You might cite his 33+ PPG in 2000-2001 as being dominant. I would look at his average of over 30 shots a game and shooting percentages of .415 from the floor and .200 from 3 and be pretty unimpressed.

He had some good series, some bad.



Year PER TS% TOV% WS/48
1999-2000 15.3 .490 16.4 .067
2000-2001 26.8 .483 5.4 .138
2001-2002 25.6 .553 10.5 .158
2002-2003 27.0 .551 11.6 .181
2004-2005 27.2 .556 11.8 .165
2006-2007 21.2 .478 10.2 .102
2007-2008 24.4 .478 9.6 .114


All are above average, but only borderline all-star level. Though his usage was insanely high.

twoearl
02-16-2011, 11:44 AM
It's funny but the real reason I think TMAC is hated is because of things such as This Thread. People are tired of fans who religously defend him? Why? When has one guy who has never won anything deserved so much respect? He had only 3-4 truly great years? The rest he was injured or trying to play on a bad ankle or something.

I dont even think he is a hall of famer.

TO to the CHI
02-16-2011, 11:55 AM
Career 38 38 42.2min .430fg .3013pt .756ftw 6.9reb 6.2ast 1.3stl 1.1bpg 28.5ppg
there goes his stats.. not what are you complaining about??? where is the choking???? oh 236ast to 112trns not too bad man be honest with yourself you can't complain about that 28 6 6 i mean how many guys have done that?????

The shooting numbers are atrocious. They reflect a chucker, not a skilled shooter.

The A/TO ratio is pretty bad as well (though more excusable as he is not a PG).

The lack of ever winning a series just compounds it. You have proven nothing.

fadedmario
02-16-2011, 11:58 AM
As for TMac being selfish? He seems to be taking his current role in Detroit of PG and back up SG very well. 23 minutes a game and only taking 8 shots a game and averaging 3.3 assists a game. Sounds selfish. Its not like he is jacking up shots. He is playing a team game and looking for his teammates. Pretty selfish.

Good post. :)

TO to the CHI
02-16-2011, 11:59 AM
He had some good series, some bad.



Year PER TS% TOV% WS/48
1999-2000 15.3 .490 16.4 .067
2000-2001 26.8 .483 5.4 .138
2001-2002 25.6 .553 10.5 .158
2002-2003 27.0 .551 11.6 .181
2004-2005 27.2 .556 11.8 .165
2006-2007 21.2 .478 10.2 .102
2007-2008 24.4 .478 9.6 .114


All are above average, but only borderline all-star level. Though his usage was insanely high.

Are you helping to prove my point or the other side? I never said TMac sucked. I also don't hate TMac. I said his playoff numbers were not that impressive and that he never won a series. You refer to several seasons as being "above average." It seems that echoes my position, which is merely that he was never an all-star. I don't hate TMac at all. And I wanted him to sign in Chicago this summer because I have Bulls season tickets. However, I don't think he is an all-time great and I think that his playoff numbers are not very impressive (though as a secondary option on the Bulls, I could have dealt with that).

TO to the CHI
02-16-2011, 12:05 PM
Thx but I disagree, Tmac stated the main reason for going there was to play at home. Before becoming a free agent he and Grant Hill discussed the possibility of teaming up in Orlando. Doesnt sound like someone wanting to be the sole option, just a guy who wants a bigger role and a spotlight away from Vinsanity.

He was promised a main option role before leaving Toronto anyways, the main difference was that he could play this role close to home and alongside a superior player to Vince.

It's interesting. I lived in Toronto at that time and there was never talk of TMac joining up with the other guys in Orlando. The rumors were all about Duncan and Hill. And everything about TMac (including his own comments) stated that he wanted to be the man (which is why there were a lot of Chicago rumors). Then Duncan stayed in SA and McGrady ended up in Orlando.

You state that TMac wanting to team up with Hill "doesn't sound like someone wanting to be the sole option" but I never heard any such rumors before the summer. Rather, he talked about wanting to be the man. That changed when he hit free agency and had a chance to team up with Hill. As an aside, it is just that change in his reasoning that made most Toronto fans angry. The fans would have been pissed regardless, but most could probably understand him leaving to become the man, but no one could understand leaving his cousin to go be robin to someone else's batman.

TO to the CHI
02-16-2011, 12:06 PM
As for TMac being selfish? He seems to be taking his current role in Detroit of PG and back up SG very well. 23 minutes a game and only taking 8 shots a game and averaging 3.3 assists a game. Sounds selfish. Its not like he is jacking up shots. He is playing a team game and looking for his teammates. Pretty selfish.

His career has lasted over a decade. I am not saying he is selfish, but using one season from the back end of a career as conclusive evidence just seems foolish.

Yunqn
02-16-2011, 12:29 PM
See what I mean about lacking perspective...


Im pretty sure him and Grant Hill talking about teaming up in the months leading up to FA meant he wasnt thinking about going to war by himself. It was only Grant Hills ankle that ensured Tmac never got the talent around him.


So this regular season game outweighs the fact that Tmac played through injuries in the playoffs, and gave the team his all when it mattered most. Man your finicky


Plenty of more credible people disagree with these unwarranted opinions.


In other words he was a star.


Incorrect, just because the Rockets medical staff lacked the capacity to know the extent of his injuries doesnt mean it was unnecessary, it only deems them ignorant. Its why one of the teams primary physicians has since apologized and quit. Tmac should have gotten the surgery alot sooner, but everyone kept feeding him false information. Obviously Tmac had his faults in this divorce, Im not disputing that. Only that he was caught in a bad situation and both sides are at fault.


Again, your opinion. Hes already stated hes far removed from his prime, but he believes in his ability to return to a game changing form. So be it, it doesnt make him a player who isnt about the team. Atleast not any more so than the majority of players in the league.


Umm of course the Rockets were better without an INJURED Tmac. He was trying to measure where he was at in his recovery. He couldnt do that in Houston so he left, and did so much more professionally than most. Heck hes done it twice so he knows the procedure.

And the rest of your post was typical hate as well

Great post.

The funny thing is I never met a non tmac fan in my life until his last year in Houston and coming to this site..there's a lot of babys on here who cry and hate too much.
its not wild to even day what Kevin durant is now is what tract mcgrady was when he was healthy.. He wasn't overrated.. Just never healthy and was surrounded by awful talent..n that's a understatement

ttam68
02-16-2011, 02:19 PM
Are you helping to prove my point or the other side? I never said TMac sucked. I also don't hate TMac. I said his playoff numbers were not that impressive and that he never won a series. You refer to several seasons as being "above average." It seems that echoes my position, which is merely that he was never an all-star. I don't hate TMac at all. And I wanted him to sign in Chicago this summer because I have Bulls season tickets. However, I don't think he is an all-time great and I think that his playoff numbers are not very impressive (though as a secondary option on the Bulls, I could have dealt with that).

Well, he was comparable to other superstar-type players over the course of his prime.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&per_minute_base=36&type=advanced&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1999&year_max=2008&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos=&qual=&c1stat=mp_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=30&c2stat=pts_per_g&c2comp=gt&c2val=22&c3stat=trb_per_g&c3comp=gt&c3val=4&c4stat=ast_per_g&c4comp=gt&c4val=4&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws_per_48

Penalizing him for never winning in the playoffs is not different than criticizing someone like Malone or Lebron for never winning a ring. I think they're all time greats.

Clearly his injuries and playoff outcomes leave him easily open for debate, but he was once an amazing player. You seem to think he's Iverson, whereas he's closer to a Kobe. And advanced stats will tell you that he's atleast in that ballpark.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&per_minute_base=36&type=advanced&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1999&year_max=2008&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos=&qual=&c1stat=mp_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=30&c2stat=pts_per_g&c2comp=gt&c2val=22&c3stat=trb_per_g&c3comp=gt&c3val=4&c4stat=ast_per_g&c4comp=gt&c4val=4&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws_per_48

His playoff numbers also leave him just under guys like Pierce/Kobe/VC.

There's really no definitive answer here. I'm sure you'll write an angry response saying how he's an overrated chucker, but the reality is he willed some awful Orlando teams and some mediocre Houston teams to extended playoff series where he was overmatched.

He certainly wasn't a top 20 all-time great, but he was a top 10 talent during his prime.

Chronz
02-16-2011, 02:34 PM
It's interesting. I lived in Toronto at that time and there was never talk of TMac joining up with the other guys in Orlando. The rumors were all about Duncan and Hill. And everything about TMac (including his own comments) stated that he wanted to be the man (which is why there were a lot of Chicago rumors). Then Duncan stayed in SA and McGrady ended up in Orlando.
Their were rumors to Miami as well
Both Hill and Tmac have commented on it, I first read about it in an old SI article, Im sure if you look through their vault you can find something on it. The prevailing rumors were about Duncan and Hill because they were the top FA, that still doesnt disprove the notion that Tmac wanted to pair up with other players and do so closer to home.


You state that TMac wanting to team up with Hill "doesn't sound like someone wanting to be the sole option" but I never heard any such rumors before the summer. Rather, he talked about wanting to be the man. That changed when he hit free agency and had a chance to team up with Hill. As an aside, it is just that change in his reasoning that made most Toronto fans angry. The fans would have been pissed regardless, but most could probably understand him leaving to become the man, but no one could understand leaving his cousin to go be robin to someone else's batman.

Its pretty simple to me.
Why play behind someone who isnt all that established himself, particularly when you can do so close to home and alongside a superior player. This idea that there has to be a Robin isnt how players think, there is more than enough basketball for 2 stars to be stars.

xbrackattackx
02-16-2011, 02:35 PM
I heart Mcgrady.

Chronz
02-16-2011, 02:44 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjbkXewxlGI

The man is a pathetic loser who waited till it was too late to fix his image.

LOL That same pathetic loser put his body on the line throughout his career. He never had to repair his image, hes been one of the most popular figures throughout his career and has shaped the games of many young prospects, intelligent fans of the game already know the truth about him.



All are above average, but only borderline all-star level. Though his usage was insanely high.

LOL WTF? Explain how what you posted is borderline All-Star when it is in fact superstar quality.



It's funny but the real reason I think TMAC is hated is because of things such as This Thread. People are tired of fans who religously defend him? Why? When has one guy who has never won anything deserved so much respect? He had only 3-4 truly great years? The rest he was injured or trying to play on a bad ankle or something.

I dont even think he is a hall of famer.
Its because he had 3-4 historical years that people defend him. That he was able to stay in the league and transform his game throughout the years is another. Lesser players wouldve been done in alot sooner.



The shooting numbers are atrocious. They reflect a chucker, not a skilled shooter.

The A/TO ratio is pretty bad as well (though more excusable as he is not a PG).

The lack of ever winning a series just compounds it. You have proven nothing.
Look at his per possession efficiency (Off.RTG) That he was so efficient despite carrying a massive load on BOTH ends usually against quality defenses was magnificent. One thing Ive always admired about Mac is that come playoff time he always clamped down defensively. In his youthful energetic days against the Knicks he was all over the court, in the series vs the Hornets he defended PG-Centers (albeit it against the likes of Tractor Trailor but still his defensive versatility was a sight to behold) when Baron was absolutely destroying DA he stepped in and completely took away his post game, against the Bucks he made Glen Robinson look foolish, against the Pistons he didnt really have to guard anyone but whenever Billup/Rip got hot he would switch onto them and shut down, against the Mavs his defense on Dirk was spectacular and again whenever someone got hot (like Stackhouse) he shut them down. In the series vs the Jazz he wasnt the same player but even then for someone who had been a liability all season he was able to muster up some decent defensive performances.

The lack of ever winning a series shouldnt count against him, there were always more glaring problems that prevented them from winning.

Look at the history of one man teams or undermanned squads and youll see that it ranks up there with them all, youll also notice a trend that its harder to maintain your efficiency against such odds.

Besides his #'s werent inefficient by playoff standards at all, lets not make him out to be Allen Iverson now.

Big Zo
02-16-2011, 02:49 PM
Because he's a douche and you can never tell which direction he's looking in.

fadedmario
02-16-2011, 03:08 PM
Because he's a douche and you can never tell which direction he's looking in.

At least his mom isn't the team whore... Delonte West :facepalm:

farren.louis
02-16-2011, 03:24 PM
The shooting numbers are atrocious. They reflect a chucker, not a skilled shooter.

The A/TO ratio is pretty bad as well (though more excusable as he is not a PG).

The lack of ever winning a series just compounds it. You have proven nothing.

Lmao oh ok... smh yeah u dnt know basketball.. he's not a shotter he;s a scorer!!! its suppose to be that low and that many shots.. here's my POINT whenever your numbers are compared to the GREATEST PLAYER OF ALL TIME MICHAEL JORDAN! there's nothing at all sorry about you as a player.. :clap:

yangx620
02-16-2011, 03:43 PM
he's not as hated as some people like vince and bosh when they go back to toronto...

at one point in life, he was my fave player, but then, for some reason, he is not the guy you want to build around cause tmac doesnt have the intangibles...the dude is skilled and one of the most talented players ever, but when it comes down to it, he cant be trusted...

thats why yao and tmac never lived up to the hype as a tandem

yangx620
02-16-2011, 03:45 PM
Their were rumors to Miami as well
Both Hill and Tmac have commented on it, I first read about it in an old SI article, Im sure if you look through their vault you can find something on it. The prevailing rumors were about Duncan and Hill because they were the top FA, that still doesnt disprove the notion that Tmac wanted to pair up with other players and do so closer to home.


Its pretty simple to me.
Why play behind someone who isnt all that established himself, particularly when you can do so close to home and alongside a superior player. This idea that there has to be a Robin isnt how players think, there is more than enough basketball for 2 stars to be stars.



i remember a few years ago the analysts talked about why tmac didnt succeed in rlando and such, and they did talk about tmac not wanting to be batman but prefer a robin role, but hill got injured, and he ended up trying to be batman

OaklandsFinest
02-16-2011, 05:55 PM
T Mac was the best scorer in the league for a while, and if he and Kobe had been reversed the Lakers would have won 10 rings because he wouldnt have broke up the team, and was a better player than Kobe in those years.

blastmasta26
02-16-2011, 08:13 PM
T-Mac was my favorite player during his Orlando years. He still would've been if injuries didn't slow him down so rapidly. Still like him though, I don't see why so many people are opposed to him.

TO to the CHI
02-16-2011, 08:17 PM
Well, he was comparable to other superstar-type players over the course of his prime.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&per_minute_base=36&type=advanced&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1999&year_max=2008&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos=&qual=&c1stat=mp_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=30&c2stat=pts_per_g&c2comp=gt&c2val=22&c3stat=trb_per_g&c3comp=gt&c3val=4&c4stat=ast_per_g&c4comp=gt&c4val=4&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws_per_48

Penalizing him for never winning in the playoffs is not different than criticizing someone like Malone or Lebron for never winning a ring. I think they're all time greats.

Clearly his injuries and playoff outcomes leave him easily open for debate, but he was once an amazing player. You seem to think he's Iverson, whereas he's closer to a Kobe. And advanced stats will tell you that he's atleast in that ballpark.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&per_minute_base=36&type=advanced&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1999&year_max=2008&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos=&qual=&c1stat=mp_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=30&c2stat=pts_per_g&c2comp=gt&c2val=22&c3stat=trb_per_g&c3comp=gt&c3val=4&c4stat=ast_per_g&c4comp=gt&c4val=4&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws_per_48

His playoff numbers also leave him just under guys like Pierce/Kobe/VC.

There's really no definitive answer here. I'm sure you'll write an angry response saying how he's an overrated chucker, but the reality is he willed some awful Orlando teams and some mediocre Houston teams to extended playoff series where he was overmatched.

He certainly wasn't a top 20 all-time great, but he was a top 10 talent during his prime.

Not one of my posts have been angry. As I have stated before, I have nothing against TMac. I am indifferent towards him.

But there is a huge difference between not winning a ring and not winning a playoff series. Huge. Argue it all you want, but go ahead and name other great players that have never won a playoff series. Just make a list. I will wait.

As for the Iverson, TMac, Bryant comparison, I certainly think that TMac is closer to the former than he is to the latter. But I also view Bryant as a top-10 player of all time and don't see TMac as being in the top-50. I think most would likely agree with that. I do readily acknowledge that, in his prime, TMac was one of the top-10 players in the game for several years.

Gram
02-16-2011, 08:46 PM
Because he's a douche and you can never tell which direction he's looking in.

I spy...a Heat bandwagon. :D

COOLbeans
02-16-2011, 08:56 PM
People hate T-Mac?

The BodyGuard °
02-16-2011, 09:11 PM
I think he should join the Raptors along with Vince Carter.

Pg- Bayless
Sg- Carter
Sf- McGrady
Pf- Davis
C- Bargnani

Bench -- DeRozan, Barbosa

SeoulBeatz
02-16-2011, 09:20 PM
I hope you don't remember him by 2, 3 and 4. The crazy 11 pts (or something) in 41 secs was better.

But back to the question: Because when the Rockets were trying to trade him 2 seasons ago, he didn't want to go to a bad team so he opt for surgery so no team would want him (according to Bill Simmons).

bill simmons is trash. dont listen to that tool.

Luca68
07-18-2011, 06:16 PM
ccuz he didnt want to play in toronto smh

Cal827
07-18-2011, 06:36 PM
he's not as hated as some people like vince and bosh when they go back to toronto...

at one point in life, he was my fave player, but then, for some reason, he is not the guy you want to build around cause tmac doesnt have the intangibles...the dude is skilled and one of the most talented players ever, but when it comes down to it, he cant be trusted...

thats why yao and tmac never lived up to the hype as a tandem

I wouldn't put Bosh into the category like Vince and T-Mac.... He might have had some issues with Canada, but he loved it here enough to resign when it looked like the team was heading in the right direction (Division Title). He didn't leave on the best of terms here, but there aren't many who don't understand why he made the decision to join Miami.

T-Mac left the team when they were on the rise with two young stars (they were swept by the Knicks that year, but it was their first playoff series in the franchise's history, as well as their first year above 500.. as I believe they were 45-37). If he remained here, then the Raptors could have won not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5..... lol just kidding around :D

I think a lot of the failures of Houston's tandem was because they were both often injured. It's quite unfortunate, cause they were both great players, and probably could have got that team to the WCF at least if they were able to play together longer.

As a Raptor fan, I do find it kinda sad that we still boo the guy somewhat. It was a decade ago, we've been though not 1, not 2, but 3..... rebuilds since then. :facepalm:

ChiSox219
07-18-2011, 06:38 PM
I don't like him because he passed on the Bulls but I always enjoyed watching him play.

sep11ie
07-18-2011, 06:38 PM
Cause he lost his keys, and now all the players are locked out.

KnicksR4Real
07-18-2011, 06:54 PM
He had tremondous skills and never took it to the next level. He also never got out of the first round. Jeff Van Gundy said this about him:
“Tracy McGrady was 1,000 hours of practice,’’ Van Gundy, now an NBA analyst for ABC and ESPN, said sarcastically at the conference. “He should be a Hall of Fame player. His talent was other-worldly. He was given a great leg up in the race against other players. He’s as close as I’ve ever seen to someone with a perfect body and a good mind… I just wish I could have changed his practice habits and his mentality.’’’

Kashmir13579
07-18-2011, 06:55 PM
I thought everybody loved T-mac... i sure do.

smith&wesson
07-18-2011, 07:04 PM
because he was a great talent and and became seriously injury prone.

I dont hate him. i dont hate iverson either. but alot of ppl on psd seem to hate them both. i rather remember them for being 2 of the most entertaining ballers to watch when i was growing up. i dont even hate carter and im a raps fan.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
07-18-2011, 07:18 PM
Gett em chron! Now you know how me and Swash feel everytime these haters even says anything about Iverson.

Jap_Steak
07-19-2011, 11:57 AM
who hasnt dunked on shawn bradley?

Blake Griffin. :(

Tony_Starks
07-19-2011, 05:12 PM
Because most of the fans that hate on him on here never even saw him play in his prime. Same with AI. Same with Vince. They weren't around to hear the barbershop debates of "who's better Kobe, Tracy, Vince, or AI?" At an actual point in history it was up for debate. But it's easy to discredit a guy when you basically catch him on the way down. At a certain point I thought Tracy was going to take over the league........

YoungOne
07-19-2011, 05:39 PM
I like him

RLundi
07-19-2011, 05:39 PM
I'm thinking it has something to do with leaving Toronto. And Orlando. And specifically, how he left those franchises.

Maybe it also has to do with his assertion about being in the second round right before choking 3 straight games to the Pistons in the first round.

sventhedog
07-20-2011, 07:31 AM
This man entertained the NBA for years. you cannot show a reel of NBA greatest highlights without him being on there. You mad cause he never been out the first round? he bust his *** every playoff series his team didn't, that is why we call it team sport. check his playoff numbers and compare them and see how high up he rank. Stop kicking a man when he's down, and thank him for the NBA moments he brought into you home.:clap:

1. 62 pt. game:clap:
2. Dunk on shawn bradley:clap:
3. all-star cross on Lebron James.:clap:
4. and lets not forget all-star game off the backboard to himself.:clap:

shall we continue?

pretty impressive but what has he done these past few years? pretty much nothing. hate will always come to players with so much talent because people expect results.

it's like squeezing toothpaste as hard as you can but nothing comes out.

and also how he whined his way out of orlando. don't tell me you didn't hear that. he was talking about retiring and how bad his situation is.

i really didn't know if it was funny or pathetic. lol.

tmac epitomized pure wasted talent and potential.

JordansBulls
07-20-2011, 10:25 AM
Cause he lost his keys, and now all the players are locked out.

:pity:

John Walls Era
07-20-2011, 02:18 PM
I like Tmac. Its unfortunate he never had much playoff success (arguably not his fault since he avg great numbers). Most people hate him because hes deemed a loser and a guy who doesn't give it his all (Practice issue).

Missing56&33
07-20-2011, 02:34 PM
I don't hate Tmac.....kinda feel sorry for him because of the injuries , he should have had a much better career. unfortunately he couldn't win big games but he was never surrounded by enough talent either. Basically, Tmac was a human highlight film nothing more.

Kobes a Killer
07-20-2011, 02:38 PM
Because he's a career loser,chokes in the playoffs,all about himself,quit on his team,wants to be the attention whore/superstar/primadonna. He quit on the rockets before he was traded he shut himself down for surgery that the rockets deemed unnecessary and he did it anyway. When he comes back he cries about playing time and when he gets time he doesn't perform. He's toxic to a team with championship aspirations because he lacks confidence and a team first mentality. He still thinks he's the player that won scoring titles back in the day when the fact is he's NEVER going to be that player again. He's that over the hill star that just won't go away even when all the signs are there that it's time to quit he's hanging around looking to leach off of a playoff contender still trying to get out of the first round. If you truly think about it the story is sad i pity the guy in a way because he wants to win a championship in a team sport when all the can think about is himself and for some reason he can't seem to understand it. He's never won anything but individual awards and the rockets were actually a better team with him gone the chemistry was better and we robbed the knicks in the deal. And everything the original poster listed are individual achievements and do absolutely nothing to help your team that just further proves my point that the guy is his own worst enemy.

:facepalm: ya he hasn't been past the first round, but this is a team game remember. dude has some of the sickest career playoff stats

28/7/6 in 30 something career playoff games. not too shabby if you ask me

TMAC94
07-20-2011, 02:54 PM
I don't like him because he passed on the Bulls but I always enjoyed watching him play.

he wanted to play for the bulls didnt he ? they didnt want him.

Tree Rollins
07-20-2011, 04:21 PM
Wait, you're telling me that this guy dunked on THE Shawn Bradley? That's unheard of.

The Final Boss
07-20-2011, 04:30 PM
I was unaware of a disdain, he's just another irrelevant NBA player.

MTar786
07-20-2011, 09:46 PM
I don't hate Tmac.....kinda feel sorry for him because of the injuries , he should have had a much better career. unfortunately he couldn't win big games but he was never surrounded by enough talent either. Basically, Tmac was a human highlight film nothing more.

ur an idiot :facepalm:

MTar786
07-20-2011, 09:50 PM
people seem to easily forget how tmac was from 2001-2005

bad career, yes
peak, UNBELIEVABLE

injuries took way too much out of him
he's be in the argument for top 5 best sg in history after mj and kobe, in the same sentence as wade right now easily.

John Walls Era
07-21-2011, 01:46 AM
Too bad he wasn't motivated to becoming the best.

Lake_Show2416
07-21-2011, 04:22 AM
he aint Kobe & never was