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djeller1139
07-21-2010, 04:22 AM
Maybe this isn't the right place for this, but I'm trying to understand a bit more about this over a recent debate in the Warriors forum.

What "advanced" statistics are actually legitimate and show a reasonable amount of good information? What should be taken seriously (TS%? PER? WinShare?)

I don't really know anything about them, but want to so I can get a better idea when talking about players and comparing them and everything.

Gators123
07-21-2010, 04:25 AM
This should help

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html

HuRRiCaNeS324
07-21-2010, 04:26 AM
Yao Ming is the tallest person in his family

tredigs
07-21-2010, 04:47 AM
Maybe this isn't the right place for this, but I'm trying to understand a bit more about this over a recent debate in the Warriors forum.

What "advanced" statistics are actually legitimate and show a reasonable amount of good information? What should be taken seriously (TS%? PER? WinShare?)

I don't really know anything about them, but want to so I can get a better idea when talking about players and comparing them and everything.

They really all have to be taken into context. TS% factors in the fact that the points of players who are predominantly 3pt shooters are worth more than those who are taking predominantly 2pt field goals (has a formula to regulate the two and gives a more accurate idea of how efficient of a scorer they are. FT% is thrown in there also. Which is why players like Nash or Durant are up there with the top FG% centers in the league even though they're taking tougher shots).

Things like "offensive rating" and "defensive rating" really need to be taken with a grain of salt, as they are just as much team stats as they are individual stats (similar to runs scored or RBI's in baseball... for some context).

Honestly basketball is one of the hardest games to put into rational stats and learn something from them, so all I can say is that you can't take any 1 stat as a true "be all end all" of who the most important player to a team is, but the fact that "Win-Shares" account so many factors (including team pace, etc), I've noticed that they're a pretty solid representation of the great players in the league. If I had to look at only one stat to gauge a players worth for one year, that would probably be it.

For example, last season the top 8 were:

1. Lebron - 18.5
2. Durant - 16.1
3. Howard - 13.2
4. Wade - 13.0
5. Nowitzki -12.3
6. G. Wallace -11.5
7. Gasol - 11.0
8. Duncan -10.9

Pretty solid list of your top players last year.

LAcowBOMBER
07-21-2010, 04:53 AM
For example, last season the top 8 were:

1. Lebron - 18.5
2. Durant - 16.1
3. Howard - 13.2
4. Wade - 13.0
5. Nowitzki -12.3
6. G. Wallace -11.5
7. Gasol - 11.0
8. Duncan -10.9

Pretty solid list of your top players last year.

Pretty solid, but no Kobe?! and Gerald Wallace seems pretty high

Chronz
07-21-2010, 06:48 AM
Anything is better than relying on per game averages, simple breakdown, PER places an emphasis on shot creation and can typically overrate inefficient scorers. WinShares favor efficiency over shot creation but can overrate the Battiers secondary players sometimes.

There are tons of stats out there, before you get comfortable with any of them you should check out the description stats like usage% and offensive rating, rebound rate, etc.. Just dont use per game averages, I cant stress that enough.




Things like "offensive rating" and "defensive rating" really need to be taken with a grain of salt, as they are just as much team stats as they are individual stats (similar to runs scored or RBI's in baseball... for some context).

Defensive rating yes, but offensive rating has nothing to do with your team. Think of offensive rating as TS%+T.O.%

arkanian215
07-21-2010, 06:48 AM
I like Oreb%, Dreb% and Treb% since it gives you a better idea of how many rebounds are available and the rate that he's grabbing the boards. It still doesn't isolate the player's ability to rebound the ball. A Ryan Anderson next to Dwight Howard would have a lower rebounding rate than if he were playing next to Brook Lopez. So yeah, like someone said earlier, take your stats with a grain of salt.

bholly
07-21-2010, 07:41 AM
Yao Ming is the tallest person in his family

:up:

daleja424
07-21-2010, 07:59 AM
I like winshares and PER

gbrl
07-21-2010, 11:56 AM
where do you guys get defensive ratings at or do you calculate it yourself

JordansBulls
07-21-2010, 11:59 AM
I like winshares and PER

:clap:

DCSportsIsPain
07-21-2010, 12:14 PM
Win Shares and PER taken in the context of Usage Percentage