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View Full Version : damn! can deron williams get some love already? not from weezy..



NYCZSAGE
07-20-2010, 11:33 PM
"Or Chris Paul and Derrin Williams to the Lakers? "

I'll take Deron. Sickest crossver. 18 and 9 for his career, but bigger, stronger, nastier cross, and can take over the game with his shooting.

http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2010/07/lil-waynes-take-on-lebrons-decision/

Strumpy
07-20-2010, 11:36 PM
Lil Wayne is awful.
My last **** > Lil Wayne

tland22
07-20-2010, 11:37 PM
chris paul all day long. He does more with less. More efficient as well.

NYCZSAGE
07-20-2010, 11:52 PM
CP3 can't make it rain 3's. ( not weezy, nba)

TheKing23
07-21-2010, 12:00 AM
CP3 can't make it rain 3's. ( not weezy, nba)

I have no idea why i'm actually responding to such an illiterate and ignorant statement, but Chris Paul's 35.3% for his career for three is pretty damn close to Deron Williams' 36.1%...

It seems like they can both "make it rain 3's".

GeekInThePink
07-21-2010, 12:05 AM
:facepalm:

lakers4sho
07-21-2010, 12:19 AM
Deron Williams

better all-around

djlamer
07-21-2010, 12:22 AM
yea i'm definitely more of a deron fan than a chris fan, but only a mother could love a man that ugly

hahahahahaha

Enemey
07-21-2010, 12:23 AM
Deron Williams

better all-around

I have to say Chris Paul beats him in points assist rebounds and steals so I think CP3 is the better all around player .

CALIABQLKRS
07-21-2010, 12:25 AM
Dwill is a true winner with a killer instinct. Youtube the game vs Arizona a few yrs ago when he was at illinois.. he was clutch when it mattered most..

Chacarron
07-21-2010, 12:27 AM
"Rap" sucks nowadays. I can't even call it rap.

NYK|NYY
07-21-2010, 12:32 AM
It doesn't make him any less of a player if he's not getting the attention you think he deserves. They are equal in my eyes, can win with both and that's what matters.

Blazers#1Fan
07-21-2010, 12:34 AM
Dwill is a true winner with a killer instinct. Youtube the game vs Arizona a few yrs ago when he was at illinois.. he was clutch when it mattered most..

and the all star game showed that hahaaa i call that play chris webber part 2

ldc62
07-21-2010, 12:45 AM
I'll take Deron. I don't think Paul is a better rebounder (even though stats may dispute this). Deron is more explosive, has better handles and is a little bit better at shooting. Plus Deron always beats CP3 when Jazz play Hornets.

BronBron06
07-21-2010, 12:49 AM
Derron is playing with a team that is considered SOFT

So CP3 gets my votes

THE MTL
07-21-2010, 12:51 AM
I'll take Deron. I don't think Paul is a better rebounder (even though stats may dispute this). Deron is more explosive, has better handles and is a little bit better at shooting. Plus Deron always beats CP3 when Jazz play Hornets.

Did u seriously say better handles????? Chris Paul has the best handle in the NBA since Allen Iverson.

Bucsfan
07-21-2010, 01:02 AM
Derron is playing with a team that is considered SOFT

So CP3 gets my votes

since when are the jazz soft?

lnow what you are talking about before you speak bandwagon jumper

kurtismurray
07-21-2010, 01:17 AM
since when are the jazz soft?

lnow what you are talking about before you speak bandwagon jumper

Agreed. A Jerry Sloan team is never, ever soft buddy. Deron is the most physical PG in the NBA. Deron all day long

dodie53
07-21-2010, 01:24 AM
imo,
dwill > paul

VinceCarter
07-21-2010, 01:24 AM
I cannot stand Lil Wayne's fake ****.

It's all about Jay-Z, T.I., and Eminem.

Gators123
07-21-2010, 01:27 AM
lil wayne is probably spooning with his boyfriend in jail as we speak.

masalex1205
07-21-2010, 01:28 AM
CP3 all day

nickdymez
07-21-2010, 01:32 AM
Derron is playing with a team that is considered SOFT

So CP3 gets my votes

The jazz are considered soft?

IversonIsKrazy
07-21-2010, 02:26 AM
Lil Wayne is garbage...

zambo4president
07-21-2010, 02:29 AM
Lil Wayne wrote that ********?

losbreezy
07-21-2010, 02:35 AM
Say what you want about Lil Wayne but he is very knowledgeable about the game.

TehSamurai
07-21-2010, 03:22 AM
lil' Wayne is a New Orleans native and he would like to see Chris Paul go to the Lakers?

He's a moron who makes crap "music."

Run&Gun
07-21-2010, 04:11 AM
I'd take Paul, to be honest neither of them play very good defense but at least Paul gets steals. I think Paul is more creative with the ball whether it's passing, dribbling or going to the rim. Even though Deron is bigger and stronger it's not like he post that often, or plays great defense, in the end it just comes down to he's more likely to be able to push his way into the lane than Paul will be.

But both guys go to the free throw line a lot and Paul seems to be able to finish around the rim pretty well so I think the argument that Deron finishes around the rim a lot better than Paul is really only by a mild margin.

Paul's a slightly better three point shooter, Deron is pretty good but just doesn't shoot that many for some reason.

Paul to me is still a better player he hustles for rebounds, gets a ton of assist, a ball hawker and carries his team and makes his team look a lot better than they really are.

NEILarado
07-21-2010, 05:21 AM
goodness gracious talk about haters.. lil wayne is one of the most creative people alive, love or hate him.. and is the best rap musician alive. theres a reason hes as popular as he is. you guys must be a little too old to understand.

Either way I think Paul and Deron are even

Gators123
07-21-2010, 05:33 AM
goodness gracious talk about haters.. lil wayne is one of the most creative people alive, love or hate him.. and is the best rap musician alive. theres a reason hes as popular as he is. you guys must be a little too old to understand.

Either way I think Paul and Deron are even

Yeah, If Eminem got hit by a bus.

SupeUnagi
07-21-2010, 05:48 AM
Yeah, If Eminem got hit by a bus.

basically

knickfan33
07-21-2010, 05:50 AM
"Or Chris Paul and Derrin Williams to the Lakers? "

I'll take Deron. Sickest crossver. 18 and 9 for his career, but bigger, stronger, nastier cross, and can take over the game with his shooting.

http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2010/07/lil-waynes-take-on-lebrons-decision/

Deron is the better "True" of the Two, He's probably the second best distributor in the league behind Nash.
All this talk of the Knicks getting Paul next year kind of upsets me cause i would much rather have Deron.

Cromedome
07-21-2010, 06:02 AM
Weezy Jefferson?

tmacsc2
07-21-2010, 06:40 AM
Weezy got some pretty good insight i believe, y'all just hatin!

Geargo Wallace
07-21-2010, 06:54 AM
Weezy is terrible. He make **** music. Can't flow. Can't ryhme. Doesn't make sense half of the time. Sounds high/drunk as **** whenever he moves his lips.

Its all about the Wu-Tang Clan BABY!!! The RZA, the GZA, Ol' Dirty Bastard, Inspectah Deck, Raekwon the Chef, U-God, Ghostface Killah and the M-E-T-H-O-D MAN!!!!

knicksfan42
07-21-2010, 07:21 AM
I like Williams more, especially with all the testicle punching Paul has been doing throughout his career.

ragee
07-21-2010, 07:33 AM
D-Will for me... Although both are great players, I would rather have a PG with D-Will's strength and size...

bholly
07-21-2010, 07:39 AM
OP, what are you talking about? Deron gets all sorts of love. Every time there's a 'best PG' conversation on here it either comes down to a 'D-Will is better' consensus or 'D-Will is probably top but some combination of Nash/CP3/Rose/Rondo could be close either now or in the next couple of years'. That's about as much love as you can get. What do you want, perfect consensus? An MVP?
You really think Lil Wayne spelling his name wrong is thread worthy?

hyb152
07-21-2010, 09:13 AM
Deron Williams>Chris Paul

jrm2054
07-21-2010, 09:16 AM
CP3 over Dwill all day

TehSamurai
07-21-2010, 09:51 AM
I like Williams more, especially with all the testicle punching Paul has been doing throughout his career.

Whew, you're right. One time in college = throughout entire career.

GSRaider
07-21-2010, 10:01 AM
DWill = best pg in the game...

Mr.Chi-Town
07-21-2010, 10:10 AM
"Rap" sucks nowadays. I can't even call it rap.

i can call it rap i just cant call it hip-hop. and it would be very close but i would go with D will.

Ware_Spencer
07-21-2010, 11:53 AM
I'd take Paul, to be honest neither of them play very good defense but at least Paul gets steals. I think Paul is more creative with the ball whether it's passing, dribbling or going to the rim. Even though Deron is bigger and stronger it's not like he post that often, or plays great defense, in the end it just comes down to he's more likely to be able to push his way into the lane than Paul will be.

But both guys go to the free throw line a lot and Paul seems to be able to finish around the rim pretty well so I think the argument that Deron finishes around the rim a lot better than Paul is really only by a mild margin.

Paul's a slightly better three point shooter, Deron is pretty good but just doesn't shoot that many for some reason.

Paul to me is still a better player he hustles for rebounds, gets a ton of assist, a ball hawker and carries his team and makes his team look a lot better than they really are.

Deron actually played the post a lot last year. They just pick his spots throughout the game and catch the team off guard. And he scores 90 percent of the time.

Deron can take it to the hoop a lot harder. Deron can challenge big guys at the hoop going strong. Paul can't. Doesn't have the length.

Paul shoots less three pointers than Deron. Look at the stats before you talk. Yahoo shows how many 3 pointers they each shoot a game. Deron shoots 1-1.5 more a game. And he shoots better percentage.

Deron hustles for rebounds. But you have to realized that the Jazz are a better rebounding team than the Hornets. Thats one of the number 1 things the Jazz do. Hornets don't have very good rebounders. Only Okafar. West sucks.
The Jazz are consistently a playoff team even when they have a lot of injuries. Even when Deron had that really bad ankle injury. They still made it.

Its easier to put up better stats when you are on a bad team. Also its easier to put up more stats when you dominate the ball. And you don't share it. Look up how many assists the Jazz get and how much of the assists are Deron's. Than look at the Hornets assists compared to Paul's. Deron does more with the ball in his hands with less opportunities(meaning the jazz convert on a better percentage. Isn't that the point of assists? setting up teammates better?). He gets about 40 percent of the assists. Paul gets 60 percent of the assists. That is not a good thing. That means there is less ball movement. And that means Paul is more of a ball hog even though they put up similar stats.
That is why Jazz are a better team. Part of that is Sloan's offense. but Paul doesn't run an offense. He just dribbles around in circles until he can create something. Paul will never win a championship unless he changes that.

Unruly Fan
07-21-2010, 11:59 AM
I take nothing from Lil' Wayne serious.

toronto_JazzFan
07-21-2010, 12:09 PM
Deron actually played the post a lot last year. They just pick his spots throughout the game and catch the team off guard. And he scores 90 percent of the time.

Deron can take it to the hoop a lot harder. Deron can challenge big guys at the hoop going strong. Paul can't. Doesn't have the length.

Paul shoots less three pointers than Deron. Look at the stats before you talk. Yahoo shows how many 3 pointers they each shoot a game. Deron shoots 1-1.5 more a game. And he shoots better percentage.

Deron hustles for rebounds. But you have to realized that the Jazz are a better rebounding team than the Hornets. Thats one of the number 1 things the Jazz do. Hornets don't have very good rebounders. Only Okafar. West sucks.
The Jazz are consistently a playoff team even when they have a lot of injuries. Even when Deron had that really bad ankle injury. They still made it.

Its easier to put up better stats when you are on a bad team. Also its easier to put up more stats when you dominate the ball. And you don't share it. Look up how many assists the Jazz get and how much of the assists are Deron's. Than look at the Hornets assists compared to Paul's. Deron does more with the ball in his hands with less opportunities(meaning the jazz convert on a better percentage. Isn't that the point of assists? setting up teammates better?). He gets about 40 percent of the assists. Paul gets 60 percent of the assists. That is not a good thing. That means there is less ball movement. And that means Paul is more of a ball hog even though they put up similar stats.
That is why Jazz are a better team. Part of that is Sloan's offense. but Paul doesn't run an offense. He just dribbles around in circles until he can create something. Paul will never win a championship unless he changes that.

This. end thread.

Method28
07-21-2010, 02:13 PM
I've had the bball package for a few years now and since I'm upset over how much it costs me (I'm a cheap bastard) I make sure to watch all the best players as much as I can. Paul is the better player imo.

Dude can get to anywhere on the court at any time. He's almost too unselfish though. He tries so hard to make his team better that sometimes he should just lay it in. So many times he slithered his way to the rim and dumped it off to a West/Julian Wright/ Okafor only for them to miss a 1ft lay up. If you were to put Paul on the Jazz, oh man. They'd be a force.

Now I'm not saying Paul blows Williams out of the water cause he's awesome too. DWill doesnt use his size like he could. Which shows how many of you guys actually watch and how many just go off looks. He is bigger than Paul but he really doesn't post up, he really doesn't use his body to creates shots like he could. Both of these guys would beniefit if they worked on their 3's to where they're deadly.

And to the NYK fan who said he's upset over the Paul to Knicks talk because he'd rather have DWill, Spoiled much?

Ware_Spencer
07-21-2010, 03:10 PM
I've had the bball package for a few years now and since I'm upset over how much it costs me (I'm a cheap bastard) I make sure to watch all the best players as much as I can. Paul is the better player imo.

Dude can get to anywhere on the court at any time. He's almost too unselfish though. He tries so hard to make his team better that sometimes he should just lay it in. So many times he slithered his way to the rim and dumped it off to a West/Julian Wright/ Okafor only for them to miss a 1ft lay up. If you were to put Paul on the Jazz, oh man. They'd be a force.

Now I'm not saying Paul blows Williams out of the water cause he's awesome too. DWill doesnt use his size like he could. Which shows how many of you guys actually watch and how many just go off looks. He is bigger than Paul but he really doesn't post up, he really doesn't use his body to creates shots like he could. Both of these guys would beniefit if they worked on their 3's to where they're deadly.

And to the NYK fan who said he's upset over the Paul to Knicks talk because he'd rather have DWill, Spoiled much?

I watch D-Will a lot. And its not off of look. He pushes his way to the basket. and even pushes big guys when he goes up for layups. He isn't a physical overall player. But he is physical for a point guard. And you can't put any point guard on the block that often. So the Jazz post him up throughout the game and pick and choose. Usually catching the team off guard. And he is successful the majority of the time. The Jazz keep things balance on offense. They don't go to the same play over and over. And that is why most people think they don't dominate in any single area. Believe me I have watched almost ever single Jazz game Deron has played in.
Simple minded fans have to see things over and over in a row to think something happens a lot. When it is spaced carefully throughout the game than people think its not happening a lot.
And posting up is not the only way to use a bigger body. Driving to the hoop and fighting off screens is a huge part of it. Deron is a master at fighting through the pick and roll. He also bull dozes his way to the hoop a lot. I have no idea what games you have been watching but he uses it a lot.

AND AGAIN Deron plays within the system the Jazz have set up for him. He knows when he should be dominating and when he should have more ball movement. Maybe Chris Paul has not had structure like that. But he dominates the ball way too much. Assists don't make you a team player. You can be a ball hog and lead the league in assists. When there is ball movement you see Deron running off screens a lot without the ball. You see Deron setting picks for his teammates. You never see Chris Paul doing that. He dribbles around until he can get his points or assists. That is why the Hornets aren't as good. Its a combination of the Jazz system and Deron to why they are more successful but Deron fits the Jazz system better than Paul would. Paul has to dominate the ball. The games where the Jazz lose are the games where Deron tries to take too much control. Its rare but it does happen. Paul does it the majority of the time. I actually think Paul is a better talent (outside of shooting). But his decision making is not very good. He needs to learn to play without the ball and also trust his teammates. He is a ball hog.

The Raven
07-21-2010, 03:23 PM
Id say he's probably the second best PG in the league behind Deron

Unruly Fan
07-21-2010, 03:36 PM
Weezy is terrible. He make **** music. Can't flow. Can't ryhme. Doesn't make sense half of the time. Sounds high/drunk as **** whenever he moves his lips.

Its all about the Wu-Tang Clan BABY!!! The RZA, the GZA, Ol' Dirty Bastard, Inspectah Deck, Raekwon the Chef, U-God, Ghostface Killah and the M-E-T-H-O-D MAN!!!!Since time. Major contributors during the Golden Era of hip hop.

Lil' Wayne is and always will be a phase, and it seems like people are only beginning to realize this now. Last year ppl made him seem untouchable. It was sickening.

Chronz
07-21-2010, 03:45 PM
Deron actually played the post a lot last year. They just pick his spots throughout the game and catch the team off guard. And he scores 90 percent of the time.
R U a Deron homer? I would take your opinion alot more seriously if you didnt exaggerate your claims and even though its a metaphor I dont like the use of fake stats. 90% of the time, lol, if ANY player scored that effectively on ANY play the team would run it alot more. Deron posting up would become more than just something to mix up the O and confuse the D as you tried to put it.

The REALITY of the situation is that Deron shot 46% in postup situations and it accounted for 4% of his offense (CP3 has only successfully posted up Brooks). It was a fairly effective option for how little they relied on it but nothing worth separating DWill from CP3. Not when you consider how vastly superior CP3 is at taking care of the ball, rebounding, scoring/slashing/playmaking, PnR play, Iso plays.

Spot up shooting is a split, Deron shoots more frequently but when his feet are set CP3 actually shoots a higher%. This is why I hate when people think CP3 cant play without the ball, its not that he cant, its that he wants to win. And doing something your team doesnt need isnt the way to go about it.

The only aspects I give to Deron are scoring off the ball, and transition play. I dont know if its a result of the system/players or if CP3 just lacks the ability to push tempo. Thats a big flaw, but in the playoffs when half court execution matters most, its one Im willing to let go.


Deron can take it to the hoop a lot harder. Deron can challenge big guys at the hoop going strong. Paul can't. Doesn't have the length.
WOW alot HARDER, and STRONGER. Such emphatic domination should lead to more efficient drives. Sadly CP3 is in a world of his own when it comes to paint play. Consider that CP3 has regularly ranked among the best in an area of the paint that typically belongs to bigmen with great touch. An area where most perimeter players have to shoot floaters and the like, no one is as efficient as CP3 in this regard. You can take your HARDER AND STRONGER theory, Ill take skill and efficiency over your opinion, because these are actual facts that cannot be swayed.


Paul shoots less three pointers than Deron. Look at the stats before you talk. Yahoo shows how many 3 pointers they each shoot a game. Deron shoots 1-1.5 more a game. And he shoots better percentage.
So now you decide to back your opinions with stats, good for you, if you did that from the start you would have never chosen Deron.



Deron hustles for rebounds. But you have to realized that the Jazz are a better rebounding team than the Hornets. Thats one of the number 1 things the Jazz do. Hornets don't have very good rebounders. Only Okafar. West sucks.
I have realized that, now tell me what would CP3 theoretical rebound rate look like surrounded by the quality of rebounders on the Jazz and vice versa for Deron. Heck since your the one telling us to realize context.



The Jazz are consistently a playoff team even when they have a lot of injuries. Even when Deron had that really bad ankle injury. They still made it.
WOW great analysis


Its easier to put up better stats when you are on a bad team.
Incorrect, there is no set criteria. In fact it could be harder, it really just depends on your role though your teammates do impact that role. Consider CP3, his team was worst this year, and his stats were worse. Wouldnt common sense dictate that he did better on a better team?


Also its easier to put up more stats when you dominate the ball.
Typically yes, but it doesnt mean Deron would be able to put up the same production if he switched roles, a quick glance at the possession stats show that Deron is already less effective in PnR possessions despite the fact that its not a staple, the reason are his handles. Yes its a pretty thing to watch the crossover, but pretty isnt what gets the job done. Id rather have the player who NEVER has to risk the ball by relying so heavily on the crossover the way Deron does.



And you don't share it. Look up how many assists the Jazz get and how much of the assists are Deron's. Than look at the Hornets assists compared to Paul's. Deron does more with the ball in his hands with less opportunities(meaning the jazz convert on a better percentage. Isn't that the point of assists? setting up teammates better?). He gets about 40 percent of the assists. Paul gets 60 percent of the assists. That is not a good thing. That means there is less ball movement. And that means Paul is more of a ball hog even though they put up similar stats.
LOL similar? NOT EVEN CLOSE

Also its your opinion that its bad, imagine how much worse the Hornets would be if CP3 played off the ball. Same thing with Nash, we saw what his team looked like when he started deffering. Its this simple, you cant expect CP3 to play the style you want (for whatever reason), when his team NEEDS him to dominate.



That is why Jazz are a better team. Part of that is Sloan's offense. but Paul doesn't run an offense. He just dribbles around in circles until he can create something. Paul will never win a championship unless he changes that.
OPINIONS do not equal facts. This statement means nothing


This. end thread.
LOL sure if your a normal fan who doesnt analyze the game

Trouble87
07-21-2010, 03:47 PM
Derron Williams is probably my favorite PG in the league

CP3 is nice but he's no Derron Williams

Ware_Spencer
07-21-2010, 03:49 PM
Since time. Major contributors during the Golden Era of hip hop.

Lil' Wayne is and always will be a phase. It seems like people are only beginning to realize this now. Last year ppl made him seem untouchable. It was sickening.

The best and most talented Hip Hop artists are not on the radio. Only artists that play mindless fluff and work with the corporations are on the radio.

Guys like Immortal Technique, Zion I, Living Legends, Brother Ali etc etc are way better than any guy on the radio.

People only like what is popular. Every time I hear examples of why these so called artists are the best rappers i hear......Things about there personality or going to jail or something that has nothing to do with the music or lyrics. Our country has gone brain dead and can't think for themselves so deciding what is popular and what is COMMON in society makes it COMMON SENSE. This goes for every type of music. The most talented artists are the ones who work for themselves or sign with a label that allows them to do things there way.
Trust me I know artists who are in the major market and underground. And the Major artists tell me that they aren't allowed to choose there own music. Most of the songs they can't write. They feel like slaves.

Chronz
07-21-2010, 03:53 PM
I watch D-Will a lot. And its not off of look. He pushes his way to the basket. and even pushes big guys when he goes up for layups. He isn't a physical overall player. But he is physical for a point guard. And you can't put any point guard on the block that often. So the Jazz post him up throughout the game and pick and choose. Usually catching the team off guard. And he is successful the majority of the time. The Jazz keep things balance on offense. They don't go to the same play over and over. And that is why most people think they don't dominate in any single area. Believe me I have watched almost ever single Jazz game Deron has played in.
Simple minded fans have to see things over and over in a row to think something happens a lot. When it is spaced carefully throughout the game than people think its not happening a lot.
And posting up is not the only way to use a bigger body. Driving to the hoop and fighting off screens is a huge part of it. Deron is a master at fighting through the pick and roll. He also bull dozes his way to the hoop a lot. I have no idea what games you have been watching but he uses it a lot.
He does use his body alot, its just that CP3 doesnt NEED to. This is why for the future people peg Deron as the better prospect, its down the road that those assets might pay off. But until CP3 loses his quicks and overall athletic ability I dont care.


AND AGAIN Deron plays within the system the Jazz have set up for him. He knows when he should be dominating and when he should have more ball movement. Maybe Chris Paul has not had structure like that. But he dominates the ball way too much. Assists don't make you a team player. You can be a ball hog and lead the league in assists. When there is ball movement you see Deron running off screens a lot without the ball. You see Deron setting picks for his teammates. You never see Chris Paul doing that. He dribbles around until he can get his points or assists. That is why the Hornets aren't as good. Its a combination of the Jazz system and Deron to why they are more successful but Deron fits the Jazz system better than Paul would. Paul has to dominate the ball. The games where the Jazz lose are the games where Deron tries to take too much control. Its rare but it does happen. Paul does it the majority of the time. I actually think Paul is a better talent (outside of shooting). But his decision making is not very good. He needs to learn to play without the ball and also trust his teammates. He is a ball hog.
mEH Already touched on the subject.

Huh
07-21-2010, 03:54 PM
goodness gracious talk about haters.. lil wayne is one of the most creative people alive, love or hate him.. and is the best rap musician alive. theres a reason hes as popular as he is. you guys must be a little too old to understand.

Either way I think Paul and Deron are even

Talk about your all-time oxy-morons.

Chronz
07-21-2010, 03:55 PM
Derron Williams is probably my favorite PG in the league

CP3 is nice but he's no Derron Williams

Its funny, no matter how much I like Deron and dont really care for CP3. I just cant get myself to pick Deron as the better player. Believe me bro I tried real hard but no amount of satanic rituals are going to make Deron the more effective player.

Huh
07-21-2010, 04:07 PM
Its funny, no matter how much I like Deron and dont really care for CP3. I just cant get myself to pick Deron as the better player. Believe me bro I tried real hard but no amount of satanic rituals are going to make Deron the more effective player.

Watch them play against each other and then try again.

Chronz
07-21-2010, 04:22 PM
Watch them play against each other and then try again.
Only 1 problem, Im not an idiot. Why would I watch 3-4 games and forget about the other 78? I consider Yao better than Dwight but its not because he utterly dominates him individually. In fact most have Dwight as the best center in spite of that so whats your point?

The only time Head2Head matters is in a playoff series, even then its about quality of defense faced.

Unruly Fan
07-21-2010, 04:27 PM
The best and most talented Hip Hop artists are not on the radio. Only artists that play mindless fluff and work with the corporations are on the radio.

Guys like Immortal Technique, Zion I, Living Legends, Brother Ali etc etc are way better than any guy on the radio.

People only like what is popular. Every time I hear examples of why these so called artists are the best rappers i hear......Things about there personality or going to jail or something that has nothing to do with the music or lyrics. Our country has gone brain dead and can't think for themselves so deciding what is popular and what is COMMON in society makes it COMMON SENSE. This goes for every type of music. The most talented artists are the ones who work for themselves or sign with a label that allows them to do things there way.
Trust me I know artists who are in the major market and underground. And the Major artists tell me that they aren't allowed to choose there own music. Most of the songs they can't write. They feel like slaves.

Amen.

In terms of the artists you mentioned above - I love when respect is paid to those who truly deserve it. I knew about Lil' wayne post-fame, nothing special. So I thought it was a little odd when I randomly started hearing his name all over TV and the radio. Almost seems like the majority of the public were actually brainwashed into believing Lil' Wayne was one of "the greatest rappers alive". Blasphomy to anyone with their head on straight. For a good while there people ate it alllllllll up. Artists that make it on their own steam (nowadays) are better and it truly shows in their music. I believe that 100%.

Although I favour D-Will more as a player. I believe there's something more refined about CP3's style of play. I think people have a hard time seeing this because of the contrast of CP3's injury and D-Will's huge offseason. Both great players.

Unruly Fan
07-21-2010, 04:28 PM
Talk about your all-time oxy-morons.

minus the "oxy"

Ware_Spencer
07-21-2010, 05:28 PM
R U a Deron homer? I would take your opinion alot more seriously if you didnt exaggerate your claims and even though its a metaphor I dont like the use of fake stats. 90% of the time, lol, if ANY player scored that effectively on ANY play the team would run it alot more. Deron posting up would become more than just something to mix up the O and confuse the D as you tried to put it.

I love when people use the term Homer? obviously if I like Deron more than CP3 than I am a Homer in comparison. Every person on this board is. I analyze who is a better player off of stats and ANALYZING. Which is opinion? Just like any Basketball scout he goes to watch the players to analyze! OPINIONS! Stats aren't always facts. They don't always tell the whole truth. Using stats that tell the truth along with analyzing is the best option. Yes that 90 percent was not a real stat. Don't criticize after when you know it was an exaggeration.
Also if your going to criticize use proper wording. Its not a metaphor in anyway shape or form. Its an exaggeration. Metaphors are using an analogy to compare an object or idea.


The REALITY of the situation is that Deron shot 46% in postup situations and it accounted for 4% of his offense (CP3 has only successfully posted up Brooks). It was a fairly effective option for how little they relied on it but nothing worth separating DWill from CP3. Not when you consider how vastly superior CP3 is at taking care of the ball, rebounding, scoring/slashing/playmaking, PnR play, Iso plays.

I never compared D-Will to CP3 and said he was way better at posting up. I was stating the fact that D-Will was very effective at using his strength down low for a Point guard. Of course he wasn't used tons in the paint. But he was used a lot for a point guard. And I have no idea where you got those percentages but I would love to see the source on where you got that information. Any new websites are good. Scoring 46 percent of the time in the paint as a PG is a very good percentage.



Spot up shooting is a split, Deron shoots more frequently but when his feet are set CP3 actually shoots a higher%. This is why I hate when people think CP3 cant play without the ball, its not that he cant, its that he wants to win. And doing something your team doesnt need isnt the way to go about it.

When CP3's feet are set he is the same as Deron? Are you actually being serious? That is your defense! Come on that is pathetic.
JR Smith would probably shoot a better percentage if he didn't shoot fadeaways. Lebron James wouldn't get so many turnovers if he didn't throw bad passes. David West and Okur would be better rebounders if they boxed out more. Jamal Crawford would be a better outside shooter if he took better shots.......Just to let you know decision making is apart of how good a player is.....Not just physical ability. Just because Chris Paul can hit as many shots in practice as Deron does not make them equal. Deron is a smarter at setting himself up from the outside making himself better. Everyone knows Deron is a better outside shooter.


The only aspects I give to Deron are scoring off the ball, and transition play. I dont know if its a result of the system/players or if CP3 just lacks the ability to push tempo. Thats a big flaw, but in the playoffs when half court execution matters most, its one Im willing to let go.

Agreed. It could be the system that makes Deron better than Paul. But the Jazz don't exactly have good playmakers. They plug in guys all the time who learn to pass. Its not a hard thing to do. It could be Paul's fault for not allowing it or the coach for not enforcing it. But I would bet its both.


WOW alot HARDER, and STRONGER. Such emphatic domination should lead to more efficient drives. Sadly CP3 is in a world of his own when it comes to paint play. Consider that CP3 has regularly ranked among the best in an area of the paint that typically belongs to bigmen with great touch. An area where most perimeter players have to shoot floaters and the like, no one is as efficient as CP3 in this regard. You can take your HARDER AND STRONGER theory, Ill take skill and efficiency over your opinion, because these are actual facts that cannot be swayed.


Deron can go hard and fast to the paint and still get his shot over big guys. Again my point was that Deron was very effective at using his body. It might of been you but I did not check to see who wrote it. He acted like Deron doesn't use his body that much. I never said Chris Paul was good at it either. So don't twist my words. Deron is better at keeping his speed and going hard at the guy protecting the paint. Paul is way more crafty though in the paint. He can get his shot off without jumping and deceiving the defenders. Something Deron is not as good at. Paul is very effective at using his body too. My point was just that Deron uses his strength a lot.
I think you need to use a dictionary because you used metaphor absolutely wrong. And your entire statement here was a opinion. It was not a fact. So go study the dictionary for awhile than come back.


So now you decide to back your opinions with stats, good for you, if you did that from the start you would have never chosen Deron.

I've always used Opinions and Stats. I don't use one or the other. I observe the game more rather than looking at stats online and watch highlights from youtube like most fans on here. Education on the game and observation can give a better analysis than just stats. Otherwise teams wouldn't pay Scouts to observe.


I have realized that, now tell me what would CP3 theoretical rebound rate look like surrounded by the quality of rebounders on the Jazz and vice versa for Deron. Heck since your the one telling us to realize context.
You did make your opinion here very clear. So I will go into more detail about my point. I don't think Chris Paul is a better rebounder than Deron. But I would not give the edge to Deron either. If Chris Paul was put on the Jazz I think he would average about 3 rebounds per game also. Not a huge difference in my OPINION.


Incorrect, there is no set criteria. In fact it could be harder, it really just depends on your role though your teammates do impact that role. Consider CP3, his team was worst this year, and his stats were worse. Wouldnt common sense dictate that he did better on a better team?


No common sense would not. Your example does not hold ground because Chris Paul was injured(badly). I never said Chris Paul hurts his team by putting up good stats. Its the way he is getting his stats. He doesn't allow ball movement as much as she should. He makes his team better and they are better with him. That is a no brainer. But that is where Deron's team has an edge. Deron's team plays team ball. Who knows the exact reason but its true that Chris Paul hogs the ball too much.
Your right it does depend on your role. But if your dominating the ball the majority of the time you can put up more points and assists just because you have the ball more. If teams cannot score as well around them than I can see how it would be harder to get assists but if Chris Paul had a playmaker on his team or if they played team ball than they would be better. The hornets don't play team ball so that is why they are not better. And Chris Paul does not have a 2nd playmaker either though. But Deron doesn't either. They spread the ball around to different players. And lead the league in assists most years. And those players are interchangeable. That is proven throughout the years. Blame Chris Paul blame the coach blame the organization. Something needs to change to improve Chris Paul's team. And getting more talented players around him won't solve it if Chris Paul doesn't allow them to be playmakers also.



Typically yes, but it doesnt mean Deron would be able to put up the same production if he switched roles, a quick glance at the possession stats show that Deron is already less effective in PnR possessions despite the fact that its not a staple, the reason are his handles. Yes its a pretty thing to watch the crossover, but pretty isnt what gets the job done. Id rather have the player who NEVER has to risk the ball by relying so heavily on the crossover the way Deron does.

I can see that point. I agree with that. Paul is more efficient with the ball than Deron. Deron might be able to put up more assists though if switched roles. Hard to tell when you switch teams. But I honestly think they would be the same. I don't think the stats would change much on any team. I just think Deron plays within a system better. And systems win championships.


LOL similar? NOT EVEN CLOSE

You don't think they put up similar stats? really? lol You are a Chris Paul "homer". but seriously. They both put up similar stats. Both average around 20 points per game. Both average around 10 assists per game? How is that not similar. If they were "NOT EVEN CLOSE" than Deron would not be in the same discussion as Paul. But they are in the same discussion.


Also its your opinion that its bad, imagine how much worse the Hornets would be if CP3 played off the ball. Same thing with Nash, we saw what his team looked like when he started deffering. Its this simple, you cant expect CP3 to play the style you want (for whatever reason), when his team NEEDS him to dominate.

I don't want Paul to play off the ball all together. I want Paul to be in a system or start trusting his teammates to where they aren't sure who is going to be the playmaker. Jazz have multiple options to set up players and who will be setting up other players. Chris Paul is pretty much the only option unless the other players are forced to be a playmaker. They aren't even comfortable with it so when the time comes they screw up. Kobe went through this same phase. So did Jordan. Phil Jackson has talked about it. Steve Kerr and John Paxon have there stories about Phil Jackson yelling at Jordan and telling him to not dominate the ball so much.
I can expect Paul to play the style I want because its working for Deron and its working for Kobe now. And Nash is very streaky. Sometimes he allows it sometimes he doesn't. They win when they share the ball more.
Chris Paul should have the ball in his hands more than anyone on the team. No matter what team he is on. But it needs to be less and he needs to be in a system that spreads the ball around to catch the team off guard. Because come playoff time Paul gets shut down and he can't be as effective because its pretty easy to shut one guy down. The Jazz lose when Deron tries to do too much in the playoffs also. Its not all his fault but Deron put up huge numbers in some of the losses. And put up his average numbers in the wins. That year against the Spurs. Deron and Boozer were amazing in terms of stats. But they lost. In the games before they shared the ball and the Jazz won. And Deron didn't have to dominate.


OPINIONS do not equal facts. This statement means nothing

Opinions do mean something if you understand what the winning teams are doing rather than just watching highlights and looking at stats.


LOL sure if your a normal fan who doesnt analyze the game

You contradict yourself so much. ANALYZING THE GAME IS OPINION! You keep going back and forth with this opinions mean nothing than say analyzing is whats important. Your are not making much sense or you AGAIN do not understand the definition of words.

Geargo Wallace
07-21-2010, 05:28 PM
Amen.

In terms of the artists you mentioned above - I love when respect is paid to those who truly deserve it. I knew about Lil' wayne post-fame, nothing special. So I thought it was a little odd when I randomly started hearing his name all over TV and the radio. Almost seems like the majority of the public were actually brainwashed into believing Lil' Wayne was one of "the greatest rappers alive". Blasphomy to anyone with their head on straight. For a good while there people ate it alllllllll up. Artists that make it on their own steam (nowadays) are better and it truly shows in their music. I believe that 100%.

Although I favour D-Will more as a player. I believe there's something more refined about CP3's style of play. I think people have a hard time seeing this because of the contrast of CP3's injury and D-Will's huge offseason. Both great players.

look on the lil Wayne fan pages on FB and see the **** ppl say about him. they think hes GOD.

christexaport
07-21-2010, 07:11 PM
Lil' Wayne is a great rapper OF HIS ERA. But this era is watered down, so that doesn't say much. But Wayne deserves his kudos. Those that honor him honor him in relation to what he's added to the current industry, which is alot, actually.

He's no Rakim, but he deserves the respect an emcee rapping since an early teen with Grammies and such should get. He's a G in today's game. Just because he's behind his hometeam's PG instead of DFW's finest (He's from Dallas Fort Worth, just like Bosh and Aldridge...) isn't surprising. Dirk is better than Timmy D. Just saying.

But I like CP3. He's just a natural PG to the core, and does work efficiently and effortlessly. You know greatness when you see it, and its not all athleticism, but smarts as well. CP3 is a 9.9, and DWill is about a 9.7, or a meh type wash... Depends on the team and system.

tland22
07-21-2010, 09:53 PM
I have to say Chris Paul beats him in points assist rebounds and steals so I think CP3 is the better all around player .

:clap:

NOT TO MENTION... Chris Paul also beats d-will in having less Turnovers, better free throw percentage, and player efficiency rating (PER)... all with a worse cast around him lol

this is a no brainer...its close in actuality but d-will is not even close to over taking paul

Chronz
07-21-2010, 09:54 PM
I love when people use the term Homer? obviously if I like Deron more than CP3 than I am a Homer in comparison.
Slow down guy, I never said it was because you liked him more. Its because of your gross exaggerations and excuses that dont hold up to statistical analysis.


Every person on this board is. I analyze who is a better player off of stats and ANALYZING. Which is opinion? Just like any Basketball scout he goes to watch the players to analyze! OPINIONS! Stats aren't always facts. They don't always tell the whole truth. Using stats that tell the truth along with analyzing is the best option. Yes that 90 percent was not a real stat. Don't criticize after when you know it was an exaggeration.
Thats why I urge you to understand statistics before making any sort of quantifiable claim. Your exaggerations/opinions are meaningless without them. You offered nothing in the way of proof to substantiate your opinions, that is the difference and my only problem with your analysis.


Also if your going to criticize use proper wording. Its not a metaphor in anyway shape or form. Its an exaggeration. Metaphors are using an analogy to compare an object or idea.
Touche


I never compared D-Will to CP3 and said he was way better at posting up. I was stating the fact that D-Will was very effective at using his strength down low for a Point guard. Of course he wasn't used tons in the paint. But he was used a lot for a point guard. And I have no idea where you got those percentages but I would love to see the source on where you got that information. Any new websites are good. Scoring 46 percent of the time in the paint as a PG is a very good percentage.

Thats his FG% in POSTUP situations, not paint. Google synergy, pay the fee and join up before they close up shop to the public like they did a few years back.
I took it as a comparison of the 2, after all he is the barometer for great PG's.



When CP3's feet are set he is the same as Deron? Are you actually being serious? That is your defense! Come on that is pathetic.
Again your opinion is irrelevant without support, my defense was the fact that when both players are in SPOT-UP situations, CP3 is more efficient. Meaning if he got as many wide open looks as Deron gets, odds are hes going to look alot better in terms of raw %'s. Deron is still the better shooter off the dribble though. Its why hes so good in a stationary set like the Jazz run.



JR Smith would probably shoot a better percentage if he didn't shoot fadeaways. Lebron James wouldn't get so many turnovers if he didn't throw bad passes. David West and Okur would be better rebounders if they boxed out more. Jamal Crawford would be a better outside shooter if he took better shots.......Just to let you know decision making is apart of how good a player is.....Not just physical ability. Just because Chris Paul can hit as many shots in practice as Deron does not make them equal. Deron is a smarter at setting himself up from the outside making himself better. Everyone knows Deron is a better outside shooter.
Youve missed the point Im making, its not about what ifs, its about what is. I was comparing their shooting ability in an isolated set of being open. When both of these players are taking spot up 3's CP3 is actually more efficient. Deron isnt smarter at anything, just different roles and teammates.

You might not know this, but GM's, Scouts, Coaches actually care about what zones and play calls your effective in. Thus comparing the shooting ability of 2 players, you dont simply look at 3pt%/FG%. You look at their rate of assisted jumpers, how often they had to take those off the dribble. I dont get what your comparisons are suppose to prove other than you have no idea what Im talking about.
For example, the Cavs didnt acquire Mo because he was a 38% 3pt shooter, they got him because when hes set hes a 44% shooter. Meaning they understood Mo's off the ball abilities were being underutilized in Milwaukee. Pairing him with Bron meant more of those opportunities. Thats ANALYZING. Again Deron is prolly better shooter overall, but it doesnt change the point I was making.



Agreed. It could be the system that makes Deron better than Paul. But the Jazz don't exactly have good playmakers. They plug in guys all the time who learn to pass. Its not a hard thing to do. It could be Paul's fault for not allowing it or the coach for not enforcing it. But I would bet its both.
The only thing I said I might credit to the system/players was Derons transition game. His off the ball scoring is because hes a better 2-guard than CP3. I dont understand what your saying, if passing/playmaking were something so easy to pick up, GM's wouldnt bother spending resources looking for players who excel in these areas. You cant compare their teammates and say they could be doing the same thing, when never once in their careers have they been asked to do so (rightfully so). Like AK47 is a better passer than anyone CP3 has ever played alongside of. Are you trying to say thats CP3's fault?

This is where some real life examples would help.



Deron can go hard and fast to the paint and still get his shot over big guys. Again my point was that Deron was very effective at using his body. It might of been you but I did not check to see who wrote it. He acted like Deron doesn't use his body that much. I never said Chris Paul was good at it either. So don't twist my words. Deron is better at keeping his speed and going hard at the guy protecting the paint. Paul is way more crafty though in the paint. He can get his shot off without jumping and deceiving the defenders. Something Deron is not as good at. Paul is very effective at using his body too. My point was just that Deron uses his strength a lot.
Fair enough, it wasnt me who said it, I just kind of jumped into your guys argument. If your not making the comparison then Im forcing it on you, you dont have to play along but just know Im comparing the 2 directly.



I think you need to use a dictionary because you used metaphor absolutely wrong. And your entire statement here was a opinion. It was not a fact. So go study the dictionary for awhile than come back.
There was no metaphor, these were FACTS. Go study the stats, the tape, and the players. When it comes to a specific area in the paint where the most efficient scorers happen to be bigmen with touch, guess whos name plops up among them? CP3



[B]I've always used Opinions and Stats. I don't use one or the other. I observe the game more rather than looking at stats online and watch highlights from youtube like most fans on here.
I disagree on the part that youve combined the 2, then again when it comes to statistical claims I have high standards. Like any joe blo can say that combine the 2, but odds are hes combining flawed versions of both. If your not using the right stats, what good is it doing you?

I used to watch the game more, but then I realized that basketball is a game of repetition, efficiency and probability with some luck mixed into it. I dont need to see players to know their OFFENSIVE abilities anymore. Its not as if the game is all that different that so many unique sets and possessions occur. The game is broken down into a series of individual battles that can be quantified. With so many stats available nowadays, over the course of 82 games I really dont see what you can pick up that I cant, even if I didnt see as much film. ESPECIALLY when I can watch that possession any time I wish, I just dont because I dont see anything that I havent seen for decades now.

Defense on the other hand is a totally different story but the statistical community is starting to make some progress on that front.


Education on the game and observation can give a better analysis than just stats. Otherwise teams wouldn't pay Scouts to observe.
Obviously its best to combine both, but if I had to choose the guy who watches the game and knows NOTHING of stats, vs the guy who NEVER watches but understands statistics, Ill go with the stat guy.
Ive made too much money listening to those stat heads to agree with you. The reason eyes are more deceiving than stats, is people get too caught up with things they cant quantify aka the little things. When what wins are the big things, its why they are in the boxscore. And your example proves nothing because teams pay statisticians for the same purposes. Depending on management, some are held in higher regard. Considering the fact that the vast majority of playoff teams are among the most advanced in that field I can assume they are atleast on equal footing in terms of importance.



You did make your opinion here very clear. So I will go into more detail about my point. I don't think Chris Paul is a better rebounder than Deron. But I would not give the edge to Deron either. If Chris Paul was put on the Jazz I think he would average about 3 rebounds per game also. Not a huge difference in my OPINION.
Well look now that Ive actually dissected your claims I found out that your assertions were incorrect. CP3 has posted higher rebounding #'s while being on better rebounding teams 3 of the 5 years.

Defensive Rebounding % Ranks
06 Hornets 10th / Jazz 12th
07 Jazz 4th / Hornets 5th
08 Hornets 3rd / Jazz 9th
09 Hornets 7th / Hornets 21st
10 Jazz 5th / Hornets 12th

There are complicated methods to gauge a players true rebounding rate, Im just not equipped to do the math, but in situations where a player is superior on both the team and individual level, hes the better rebounder. Your excuses follow a trend of unsubstantiated opinions EASILY trumped with facts. Simply put, the difference in team efficiency would have to be far greater to have a dramatic effect on a players rebounding. Most studies have shown a minimal effect regardless, and in the case of CP3 you may actually see his rebounding decrease with the team getting worse. Could be a result of his diminished returns, Im not here to prove that, only to counter your claims. Regardless its not a separating factor between the 2.



No common sense would not. Your example does not hold ground because Chris Paul was injured(badly). I never said Chris Paul hurts his team by putting up good stats. Its the way he is getting his stats. He doesn't allow ball movement as much as she should. He makes his team better and they are better with him. That is a no brainer. But that is where Deron's team has an edge. Deron's team plays team ball. Who knows the exact reason but its true that Chris Paul hogs the ball too much.
Good point on the injury note, but did he play hurt? I dont necessarily agree it hurt him as much as having a worse team did, but Ill drop the flawed example I was using.




Your right it does depend on your role. But if your dominating the ball the majority of the time you can put up more points and assists just because you have the ball more.
You also turn it over more often, have to face greater defensive pressure, and could actually hurt your stat line if you over dribble. Yet despite these circumstances, hes still more efficient than Deron. I could see the point if Deron were atleast more effective in his limited (by comparison) possessions, but there isnt a single PG skill he displays that gives him the edge despite having better players around him.



If teams cannot score as well around them than I can see how it would be harder to get assists but if Chris Paul had a playmaker on his team or if they played team ball than they would be better. The hornets don't play team ball so that is why they are not better. And Chris Paul does not have a 2nd playmaker either though. But Deron doesn't either. They spread the ball around to different players. And lead the league in assists most years. And those players are interchangeable. That is proven throughout the years. Blame Chris Paul blame the coach blame the organization. Something needs to change to improve Chris Paul's team. And getting more talented players around him won't solve it if Chris Paul doesn't allow them to be playmakers also.
I really just think your mistaking a result of circumstance with choice. CP3 has none, if he did he can adapt to any style but why play off the ball if your teammates cant do anything without your help? Saying Deron doesnt have playmakers is selling the Jazz short. AK47 is a skilled passer, hes always had a plethora of finishers around him and floor spacers, heck his Center is probably the best floor spacer in the league at his position. Deron picks up so many easy assists just from letting plays develop. There is no way you can convince anyone that the support or quality of playmakers around them is comparable.

Also playing team ball making the team better if your opinion. If CP3 deferred his team would struggle. Ive seen it happen over and over. He would often get the team into big holes by allowing the game to come to him. He doesnt have that luxury.



[B]I can see that point. I agree with that. Paul is more efficient with the ball than Deron. Deron might be able to put up more assists though if switched roles. Hard to tell when you switch teams. But I honestly think they would be the same. I don't think the stats would change much on any team. I just think Deron plays within a system better. And systems win championships.
Deron is already a turnover machine, could you imagine how much more turnover prone he would be if you played less into his strengths and forced him to constantly probe and create. His stats would look ugly

its like the Kobe-Bron comparison. Kobe stans used to blame the triangle on Kobes lack of overall stats, saying if he played PnR all the time like Bron hed have sick stats. Yet when you breakdown their possessions you cant find a lick of proof to support them. If you look at the half year Kobe spent outside the triangle he averaged 28-6+Ast or something, so while on the surface it looks like his stats are better, a deeper look into his efficiency reveals it was actually his least productive season in his starting career (due to the t.o.%), it was only after the triangle was reinstalled that Kobes stats went back up.

So if you say Derons assist would go up, I say his already less impressive turnover rate would look even worse. The end result is CP3 still outproduces him, and it has nothing to do with how much he handles the ball and everything to do with his once a generation skills.

Im pretty sure talent and cohesion wins championships. Whens the last time Derons system won a championship?


You don't think they put up similar stats? really? lol You are a Chris Paul "homer". but seriously. They both put up similar stats. Both average around 20 points per game. Both average around 10 assists per game? How is that not similar. If they were "NOT EVEN CLOSE" than Deron would not be in the same discussion as Paul. But they are in the same discussion.
Your problem is that your relying on outdated metrics.
They are in the same discussion because the majority of the world does not understand stats. They are literally not even close, look up their possession/efficiency metrics. There has never been anyone this short, so productive.




I don't want Paul to play off the ball all together. I want Paul to be in a system or start trusting his teammates to where they aren't sure who is going to be the playmaker. Jazz have multiple options to set up players and who will be setting up other players. Chris Paul is pretty much the only option unless the other players are forced to be a playmaker. They aren't even comfortable with it so when the time comes they screw up.
LOL they screw up because they arent comfortable with it? I have never known a player to lose a definable skill like playmaking, you either have it or you dont. You cant play a certain way if you lack the personnel.



Kobe went through this same phase.
Kobe would jettison the triangle offense only to return to it as the season wound down, definitely not comparable to CP3 lacking the teammates.


So did Jordan. Phil Jackson has talked about it. Steve Kerr and John Paxon have there stories about Phil Jackson yelling at Jordan and telling him to not dominate the ball so much.
PJ has also told MJ to start dominating the ball more, particularly when they added Ron Harper as the primary PG. Point being, Phil often adjusts his gameplan according to the skillset of the roster around him. There is no singular method for winning.


I can expect Paul to play the style I want because its working for Deron and its working for Kobe now.
Its working for CP3 as well, if you havent noticed hes been able to accomplish more in his career despite having less talent around him.


And Nash is very streaky. Sometimes he allows it sometimes he doesn't. They win when they share the ball more.
Incorrect Nash plays according to his teammate abilities. If you look at his production over the year you could see when STAT got going he stopped chucking/"hogging" as much.

If what you said were true the team wouldnt have struggled as bad as they did when the game plan was to restrict Nash's ball handling. All it took was the team going back to Nash ball for them to improve leaps and bounds.



Chris Paul should have the ball in his hands more than anyone on the team. No matter what team he is on. But it needs to be less and he needs to be in a system that spreads the ball around to catch the team off guard. Because come playoff time Paul gets shut down and he can't be as effective because its pretty easy to shut one guy down.
Opinion does not equal facts, facts are CP3 has had the better playoff run between the 2. Its easier to shut one player down when he lacks teammates. There is no holy grail of systems. Though its obvious the less the team has to rely on 1 player the better its going to be, regardless of the system.


The Jazz lose when Deron tries to do too much in the playoffs also. Its not all his fault but Deron put up huge numbers in some of the losses. And put up his average numbers in the wins. That year against the Spurs. Deron and Boozer were amazing in terms of stats. But they lost. In the games before they shared the ball and the Jazz won. And Deron didn't have to dominate.
In the games before they werent facing the Spurs, look at that very same series you mentioned, the one game they won Deron posted the best PER of series scratch that, of the entire playoff run. Correlation does not equal causation.

The Jazz also lose when Deron doesnt do enough, there are endless examples of teams winning with any sort of combination you can think of but what matters are the examples you provide to prove your theories.

Honestly its hard to take your statistical examples seriously when you know the guy doesnt even look at the most recent stats.


[B]Opinions do mean something if you understand what the winning teams are doing rather than just watching highlights and looking at stats.
You obviously dont understand what winning teams are doing if your not even using up to date stats.


You contradict yourself so much. ANALYZING THE GAME IS OPINION! You keep going back and forth with this opinions mean nothing than say analyzing is whats important. Your are not making much sense or you AGAIN do not understand the definition of words.
There is no contradiction, you just arent up to speed yet. Fortunately Im here to help.