PDA

View Full Version : Nhl rejects kovy's contract



mmmrevolver93
07-20-2010, 09:50 PM
Eklund

NHL rejects kovalchuk's contract. So this must be what hell is like. More to come 3 minutes ago via Osfoora for iPhone

Redfish
07-20-2010, 09:57 PM
Eklund

NHL rejects kovalchuk's contract. So this must be what hell is like. More to come 3 minutes ago via Osfoora for iPhone

Perhaps this is the winger both the Kings and Rangers were going at; maybe this started leaking internally to GMs earlier in the day and is just now getting out more broadly.

Kudos to the NHL if this is true; it's a bogus contract that circumvents the CBA.

mmmrevolver93
07-20-2010, 09:59 PM
Perhaps this is the winger both the Kings and Rangers were going at; maybe this started leaking internally to GMs earlier in the day and is just now getting out more broadly.

Kudos to the NHL if this is true; it's a bogus contract that circumvents the CBA.



Do you think that that the devils will try to sign him to a different contract and do you think kovy will now look at offers from other teams?

mmmrevolver93
07-20-2010, 10:09 PM
League voids Kovalchuk's deal with Devils

Toronto, ON (Sports Network) - The NHL has rejected Ilya Kovalchuk's 17-year, $102 million contract with the New Jersey Devils on grounds that it circumvents the league's salary cap.

The report is according to TSN Canada.

The rejection is likely due to the way the deal is structured, which was previously reported by the Newark Star-Ledger. He was due to earn $6 million in each of the next two seasons, $11.5 million from 2012-17 and $10.5 million the following year. The salary was scheduled to fall off after that until he made $550,000 annually in the final five years of the deal. He would have been 44 years old when the contract was set to conclude in 2027.

The way the current collective bargaining agreement is structured, a player who signs a deal before the age of 35 can eventually retire and have his contract come off a team's salary cap; however, teams must negotiate in a good faith effort to have the player remain in the league for the duration of the contract. It appears the Devils frontloaded the deal so Kovalchuk could have earned as much money as possible while providing the lowest possible cap hit for the team.

Similar investigations were also launched last offseason for Philadelphia's Chris Pronger and Chicago's Marian Hossa, but the league did not void either of those contracts. Pronger signed a seven-year extension worth $35 million, where he makes $525,000 in each of the final two seasons, while Hossa makes $1 million or less in each of the final four years of his 12-year, $62 million deal.

Kovalchuk was the hottest commodity on this year's free agent market, as he was pursued by the Devils, Kings, Islanders and a Russian club among others. He has turned down reported offers of $70 million over seven years and $100 million over 12 years from the Thrashers, who finally gave up on re-signing the sniper and sent him to New Jersey in a package that netted Atlanta defenseman Johnny Oduya, right wing Niclas Bergfors, forward Patrice Cormier and a first-round draft pick.

good

Redfish
07-20-2010, 10:09 PM
Do you think that that the devils will try to sign him to a different contract and do you think kovy will now look at offers from other teams?

The Devils will try, I am sure; however, it may not be feasible, even for the crafty Lou Lamoriello.

I honestly don't think the Devils were his first choice. Never did. I think the Rangers were but the Rangers ranked 3rd in terms of being able to meet his salary demands (behind the Kings and Devils).

My gut tells me the Devils may still have the inside track but now that the league will have to give some clearer guidelines to teams that may want to sign him, it could be closer to a jump-ball situation where each team may have a compelling shot.

Oh well, I guess the UFA and trade market is now frozen again :)

mmmrevolver93
07-20-2010, 10:16 PM
The Devils will try, I am sure; however, it may not be feasible, even for the crafty Lou Lamoriello.

I honestly don't think the Devils were his first choice. Never did. I think the Rangers were but the Rangers ranked 3rd in terms of being able to meet his salary demands (behind the Kings and Devils).

My gut tells me the Devils may still have the inside track but now that the league will have to give some clearer guidelines to teams that may want to sign him, it could be closer to a jump-ball situation where each team may have a compelling shot.

Oh well, I guess the UFA and trade market is now frozen again :)

Now knowing what he wants, do you think sather attempts to move in and steal him? Wow what hostility that would bring to the already hostile rangers vs. devils games lol

Redfish
07-20-2010, 10:23 PM
Now knowing what he wants, do you think sather attempts to move in and steal him? Wow what hostility that would bring to the already hostile rangers vs. devils games lol

He essentially wants $10mm per season for 10 years, which I believe is what was reported as the offer from the Flames. The Devils were willing to pay that under a contract structure that equated to just a $6mm cap hit, with the full $100mm+ payment stretched out over 17 years.

Knowing this, and now that other teams know these parameters as well; I think Kovy can kiss good-bye to a contract that is essentially $10mm per year. The Devils were the only team willing to go that high, but they cannot accomplish this now. It will take a contract that corresponds to about an $8.5mm annual cap hit --- I don't think the Devils can justify that. The Kings likely can and the Rangers can if they waive Redden and off-load Rozy --- not an easy thing to accomplish. Kings in the driver's seat, as I see things -- but Sather will be aggressive in trying to accomplish this signing.

How do others read the situation?

mmmrevolver93
07-20-2010, 10:34 PM
He essentially wants $10mm per season for 10 years, which I believe is what was reported as the offer from the Flames. The Devils were willing to pay that under a contract structure that equated to just a $6mm cap hit, with the full $100mm+ payment stretched out over 17 years.

Knowing this, and now that other teams know these parameters as well; I think Kovy can kiss good-bye to a contract that is essentially $10mm per year. The Devils were the only team willing to go that high, but they cannot accomplish this now. It will take a contract that corresponds to about an $8.5mm annual cap hit --- I don't think the Devils can justify that. The Kings likely can and the Rangers can if they waive Redden and off-load Rozy --- not an easy thing to accomplish. Kings in the driver's seat, as I see things -- but Sather will be aggressive in trying to accomplish this signing.

How do others read the situation?

Yesterday this actually crossed my mind, and i thought of MLB vetoing the trade of arod to the redsox. and then what do you know... he goes to the division rival yankees... the devils and rangers division rivals... hmmm lol

Redfish
07-20-2010, 10:42 PM
Kovalchuk must be spinning right now; he did the entire dog and pony show out in L.A., came close to an agreement, only to walk away from the Kings best and final offer, all due to Lou Lamoriello crafting an offer he could not refuse. Now, the process starts all over again and each team, Rangers included, will likely try to sign him.

What is interesting to me is, how does the NHL communicate what is acceptable? It cannot simply give that kind of guidance to the Devils only; other teams need that same info, particularly since they weren't willing in the first place to be so egregious with circumventing the CBA as the Devils.

The plot thickens, and Kovy's head must be spinning.

bsi
07-20-2010, 10:42 PM
HA HA HA HA HA...bout time, Lou is always screwing with the cap...hopefully it isn't just a matter of tweaking the deal. Would love to see NJ lose this one.

aanddann
07-20-2010, 10:52 PM
i have a feeling the Devils still make this work somehow. i really would love to see us swoop in and somehow grab him, but for some reason i just dont think its in the cards...

we're all fretting taking our lumps this year with the kids, as excited as we are to see them play, but i just dont think Sather will ever sack up and bury Redden, a buyout in a few years is more likely.

that being said, Glen, get this done and i promise not to hate you as bad for at least a little while...until you go sign Owen Nolan or convince Yashin (i know he signed to the KHL, just figured i'd throw up a worst case scenario) to come here..whatever stupid stunt you've got up your sleeve...

bsi
07-20-2010, 10:56 PM
I really could have cared less if we got him before, but now that they rejected the devils contract, I'd love to steal him from those dirty b@st@rds, lol :)

Redfish
07-20-2010, 10:56 PM
HA HA HA HA HA...bout time, Lou is always screwing with the cap...hopefully it isn't just a matter of tweaking the deal. Would love to see NJ lose this one.

It is hard to understand how only a tweak is needed to make this work. This contract was so front-loaded for the initial 10 years, that says it all. Kovy only signed with the Devils because they structured what was the equivalent, on a net present value basis, to $10mm per season for 10 years. There is know way that can be "tweaked" without the resulting cap hit top the Devils shoot up way past the $6mm hit this contract represented. In other words, the Devils showed their cards; they could only afford a $6mm cap hit. Maybe they can get to $7mm; maybe $8mm, but nothing higher, and that likely means the Kings and Rangers are now in the mix.

It never seemed like the Devils were his top choice. It was just the $$ Lou was able to structure, and now the NHL said "no can do."

mmmrevolver93
07-20-2010, 11:00 PM
I really could have cared less if we got him before, but now that they rejected the devils contract, I'd love to steal him from those dirty b@st@rds, lol :)

ok i understand that the PA has grieved the rejection and now it is in the hands of an arbitrator, but as of now the contract is dead.. can the rangers talk to him right now? What if we went and offered him a 12 or 13 year deal worth 100 million... cap hit would be pretty much what he is worth.

Redfish
07-20-2010, 11:12 PM
ok i understand that the PA has grieved the rejection and now it is in the hands of an arbitrator, but as of now the contract is dead.. can the rangers talk to him right now? What if we went and offered him a 12 or 13 year deal worth 100 million... cap hit would be pretty much what he is worth.

If the Rangers made that offer, I think he would sign. Honestly.

The question is: can the Rangers make that type of offer? That's questionable.

It's easier for the Kings to do it, than the Rangers.

letsgorangers27
07-20-2010, 11:13 PM
ok i understand that the PA has grieved the rejection and now it is in the hands of an arbitrator, but as of now the contract is dead.. can the rangers talk to him right now? What if we went and offered him a 12 or 13 year deal worth 100 million... cap hit would be pretty much what he is worth.

that hit around 8 1/3 would be worth while but then they 100% have to bury redden/trade drury/trade rosy

mmmrevolver93
07-20-2010, 11:18 PM
One nugget for Rangers fans at the end is he indicates that the Blueshirts could be talking deal with LA with Gaborik or Drury mentioned. Nearly all Rangers fans would love to find a way to clear up cap room by moving Drury, second maybe only to dealing/demoting/waiving Redden. However, how does Gabby fit in?

I have a friend, a fellow HB reader, who is a massive conspiracy theorist, but who poses an interesting scenario. While I agree this is unlikely, play along with me. What if NJ structured the Kovy deal knowing the league would reject it? On the face of it, it seems odd, but they could show good faith to their fan base by saying we tried and look what happened. Plus, knowing that the team has Steve Pelligrini, former NHL VP and managing director of the Central Registry, as their VP of Hockey Operations and who was brought in for his cap knowledge, has to raise even more questions as he should have known what would pass league muster. Plus how does this get rejected while Pronger, Hossa and other deals that look just as questionable get accepted?

Did Lamoriello's comments or those within the media and blogosphere sway the NHL's thinking on if the deal was fair? I think anyone who saw the deal would have to admit that cap circumvention was clearly in order for the last few years of the contract.

Based on the Kovy deal now in the abyss and him technically being a free agent, what now? Even though one has to figure the league and team find a way to save face, especially after the press conference today, could the Rangers deal Gaborik to LA, maybe for a Jack Johnson, then as mentioned by comments on my prior blog, turn around and deal Rosi, Gilroy and a pick to Dallas for Richards, demote Redden and have the cap room to sign Kovy and re-sign Staal? Unlikely, yes, feasible, maybe. Personally, as I said previously, would rather Gabby and Kovy here in NY, but of the team could find a taker for Drury, all of a sudden additional cap room becomes available to be spent as only Sather likes to do.

I still believe NJ finds a way to get a deal approved with Kovy but the possibly of Kovy being available could give Sather spasmodic fits and force him to make some kind of knee-jerk move. He admitted today that the Rangers were not done "tinkering," well this kind of movement would be one hell of a tinker.

Interesting... if the dominoes could fall this way i would sign on the dotted line. we get johnson, kovy, and richards... much better team. moving gaborik would be a tough pill to swallow but i would still do it.. maybe brandyn schenn and jack johnson for gaborik.. id feel better with that.... although this would take a miracle and some pretty big balls from sather. you would have to sign kovy before you trade gaborik though, or we could get screwed big time.

Redfish
07-20-2010, 11:19 PM
that hit around 8 1/3 would be worth while but then they 100% have to bury redden/trade drury/trade rosy

I'd hope Drury could be traded to the Avalanche. His cap hit is higher and Rozy is needed more on defense than Drury is on the 4th line.

It still seems like a strecth to accomplish; these are big numbers for a team that doesn't have a lot of space, whereas the Kings have ample space.

commonsense12
07-20-2010, 11:25 PM
He will still sign with the Devils, all he has to do is match the Hossa deal and get a mill in the last 4 yrs. They would not be allowed to refuse that deal because precedent has already been set. Hossa was 30 when he signed his 12 year deal so the Devils will make it a 15 year deal for 100 mill so that they both will end at the same age. He will get 96 mill in the first 11 years and a mill in the last 4. So the cap hit will be 6.67 rounded off. He retires when he is 38 and it still circumvents the cap.

Problem solved.

NYR_NYJ
07-20-2010, 11:38 PM
Reminds me of when A-Rod came to the Yankees.
Maybe the NHL wants him NY.:D

mmmrevolver93
07-20-2010, 11:40 PM
Reminds me of when A-Rod came to the Yankees.
Maybe the NHL wants him NY.:D

Beat you to this one lol

dashripdot
07-21-2010, 12:06 AM
Perhaps this is the winger both the Kings and Rangers were going at; maybe this started leaking internally to GMs earlier in the day and is just now getting out more broadly.

Kudos to the NHL if this is true; it's a bogus contract that circumvents the CBA.

So is Hossa's and Pronger's. Where was the NHL on those deals?

dashripdot
07-21-2010, 12:10 AM
Interesting... if the dominoes could fall this way i would sign on the dotted line. we get johnson, kovy, and richards... much better team. moving gaborik would be a tough pill to swallow but i would still do it.. maybe brandyn schenn and jack johnson for gaborik.. id feel better with that.... although this would take a miracle and some pretty big balls from sather. you would have to sign kovy before you trade gaborik though, or we could get screwed big time.

Levine's blog was the single dumbest thing I have read in a long time. If Lamoriello knew the contract would be rejected, why would he have the press conference before the league reviewed the deal? As soon as the words "massive conspiracy theorist" were typed, the whole thing should have been deleted. Shame on Levine for posting that trash.

dashripdot
07-21-2010, 12:14 AM
He will still sign with the Devils, all he has to do is match the Hossa deal and get a mill in the last 4 yrs. They would not be allowed to refuse that deal because precedent has already been set. Hossa was 30 when he signed his 12 year deal so the Devils will make it a 15 year deal for 100 mill so that they both will end at the same age. He will get 96 mill in the first 11 years and a mill in the last 4. So the cap hit will be 6.67 rounded off. He retires when he is 38 and it still circumvents the cap.

Problem solved.

Agreed. He would not go back on the Devils now. They simply restructure it and the Devils will have a bigger cap hit than the $6 mil. Closer to $7, unless he agrees to take less money, which is doubtful. Everybody knows it was a sham contract; Kovalchuk all but said so at the press conference. Also, he said way too many nice things about the Devils organization to put the screws to them now. They will have to offload some players like Elias (no-trade) or maybe spin the recently-acquired Arnott to another club.

bbpagewolf
07-21-2010, 12:22 AM
I've seen a recent rumor that it's quite possible that now that Kovalchuk's contract with the Devils has been rejected that the Rangers are now the possible front runners to sign the modern day Russian Rocket. But that's not all they are rumored to do. Here are the following things that the Rangers are rumored to do to use Kovy's contract extension to their advantage:

Trade Chris Drury to the Kings for Jack Johnson.

Either trade, demote, or waive Wade Redden.

Trade Michal Roszival, Matt Gilroy, and a draft pick, to the Stars for Brad Richards.

Sign Ilya Kovalchuk.

Resign Marc Staal.

They are rumored to do each and everyone of these moves. Let's pray Ranger fans.

mmmrevolver93
07-21-2010, 12:26 AM
I've seen a recent rumor that it's quite possible that now that Kovalchuk's contract with the Devils has been rejected that the Rangers are now the possible front runners to sign the modern day Russian Rocket. But that's not all they are rumored to do. Here are the following things that the Rangers are rumored to do to use Kovy's contract extension to their advantage:

Trade Chris Drury to the Kings for Jack Johnson.

Either trade, demote, or waive Wade Redden.

Trade Michal Roszival, Matt Gilroy, and a draft pick, to the Stars for Brad Richards.

Sign Ilya Kovalchuk.

Resign Marc Staal.

They are rumored to do each and everyone of these moves. Let's pray Ranger fans.
ok now where does it make sense to you that the kings would even entertain the idea of taking on drury's horrible contract in return for your young stud defenseman...? not gonna happen.

ElementCo27
07-21-2010, 12:42 AM
I've seen a recent rumor that it's quite possible that now that Kovalchuk's contract with the Devils has been rejected that the Rangers are now the possible front runners to sign the modern day Russian Rocket. But that's not all they are rumored to do. Here are the following things that the Rangers are rumored to do to use Kovy's contract extension to their advantage:

Trade Chris Drury to the Kings for Jack Johnson.

Either trade, demote, or waive Wade Redden.

Trade Michal Roszival, Matt Gilroy, and a draft pick, to the Stars for Brad Richards.

Sign Ilya Kovalchuk.

Resign Marc Staal.

They are rumored to do each and everyone of these moves. Let's pray Ranger fans.

You or whoever rumored that must be playing NHL 10 to even think the Kings would take Drury for Johnson. No, not even, because believe it or not that game is smarter than that. You must be playing 07 because realistically that wouldn't happen. Just wouldn't happen. I think if my brain had pants they would have been shat in just now. Pardon me, but that part is obscene.

Now the deal you mentioned after for Richards is quite an idea. A reconstructing d-man in rozy and a hobey baker award winner in Gilroy and a pick, maybe WAS's 2nd rounder for him could be lucrative. Idk if it would happen but its a consideration if I was a GM. Although I wish they would put Gilroy on the wing one year to see how he does.

After what just happened with Kovy and how long a term he wants, I don't think he's right for the Rangers anymore. It would kill the organization to be honest unless he went with 8mil and Redden was demoted as mentioned above. That's probably not until: a) a big move is made or b) a decision is made after training camp/tryouts.

As much as I'd love to have Johnson, I don't think he's going to be touched. It has been hastily mentioned that the Kings org. is building from within and would only sign Kovy to a realistic deal which is why they were after him. I'm sorry but for Drury that's just obscene lol.

NECKLOCK
07-21-2010, 12:56 AM
I say we start looking at some 3 team deals between us and Anaheim and LA. I know 3 team deals don't happen in hockey often if at all but what I'm talking about is helping the Kings get Kovy, we get back Jack Johnson and Dustin Brown. Drury,Rozi,picks and prospects are included nothing specific just a framework of an ideal trade. Johnson stays with us and we send Brown and Rozi and maybe Cally/duby but prefer to send prospects and get Getzlaf and Ryan. It's not necessary to say this is a 3 team trade we just lay out proposals to both and work it from there. Maybe we could even persuade LA to take Redden in the deal because they will have the cap space and the Vet D man wouldn't hurt. I know it's vague but I see possibilities with these 2 teams. LA really covets Kovy and they've been close before to a deal and for us to give up 10 Mil on 1 guy isn't the path we need to take esp if we can get a combo of Getzlaf,Ryan,Johnson or anything close. LA could also do this because they can also bring back Frolov who I think really doesn't want to leave the team which explains his greedy money demands. And not to mention any chance we can stick it to the devils and not sacrifice our own future doing it would be awesome. I know there would be a lot more to these deals but I just started the thought because it seems to line up as a win win win for all 3 teams mentioned. We have the Report with ANA at this point and LA knows what they need to offer to out bid the devils and they have the money to do it. The devils money is somewhat limited without dismantling there team and we have the prospects,picks and current NHL players to satisfy any deal with these teams. Just Not Gaborik unless it meant we could bring back Ryan,Getzlaf and Jack Johnson and keep Staal out of the deal. Any way things turn out I feel a big one coming for us.

Al Trautwig
07-21-2010, 12:58 AM
I've seen a recent rumor that it's quite possible that now that Kovalchuk's contract with the Devils has been rejected that the Rangers are now the possible front runners to sign the modern day Russian Rocket. But that's not all they are rumored to do. Here are the following things that the Rangers are rumored to do to use Kovy's contract extension to their advantage:

Trade Chris Drury to the Kings for Jack Johnson.

Either trade, demote, or waive Wade Redden.

Trade Michal Roszival, Matt Gilroy, and a draft pick, to the Stars for Brad Richards.

Sign Ilya Kovalchuk.

Resign Marc Staal.

They are rumored to do each and everyone of these moves. Let's pray Ranger fans.
where did you see this rumor??


and i totally agree man good word choice in obscene lol

IkeDavis29
07-21-2010, 01:05 AM
where did you see all of this?

dashripdot
07-21-2010, 01:06 AM
Kings' Lombardi just went from a goat who couldn't close the deal to the smartest guy in the room. He's not going to make any deals now (maybe re-sign Frolov) because, all of a sudden, he was "right" not to sign Kovalchuk.

mmmrevolver93
07-21-2010, 01:08 AM
I say we start looking at some 3 team deals between us and Anaheim and LA. I know 3 team deals don't happen in hockey often if at all but what I'm talking about is helping the Kings get Kovy, we get back Jack Johnson and Dustin Brown. Drury,Rozi,picks and prospects are included nothing specific just a framework of an ideal trade. Johnson stays with us and we send Brown and Rozi and maybe Cally/duby but prefer to send prospects and get Getzlaf and Ryan. It's not necessary to say this is a 3 team trade we just lay out proposals to both and work it from there. Maybe we could even persuade LA to take Redden in the deal because they will have the cap space and the Vet D man wouldn't hurt. I know it's vague but I see possibilities with these 2 teams. LA really covets Kovy and they've been close before to a deal and for us to give up 10 Mil on 1 guy isn't the path we need to take esp if we can get a combo of Getzlaf,Ryan,Johnson or anything close. LA could also do this because they can also bring back Frolov who I think really doesn't want to leave the team which explains his greedy money demands. And not to mention any chance we can stick it to the devils and not sacrifice our own future doing it would be awesome. I know there would be a lot more to these deals but I just started the thought because it seems to line up as a win win win for all 3 teams mentioned. We have the Report with ANA at this point and LA knows what they need to offer to out bid the devils and they have the money to do it. The devils money is somewhat limited without dismantling there team and we have the prospects,picks and current NHL players to satisfy any deal with these teams. Just Not Gaborik unless it meant we could bring back Ryan,Getzlaf and Jack Johnson and keep Staal out of the deal. Any way things turn out I feel a big one coming for us.

uhm wow. thats all i can say is wow. first of all the kings have no need to trade johnson, even if they sign kovalchuk. and the deal you proposed is basically us exchanging a salary dump for gold... keep eating those lucky charms bc thats the only way your getting the gold my man.

nyr1980
07-21-2010, 01:22 AM
Just as an aside, it is actually nice to see the league show a pair as his contract clearly circumvents the cap and is not a deal that realistically can be expected to be honored by both sides

jetsfan89
07-21-2010, 01:39 AM
They are rumored to do each and everyone of these moves.

lolwut?

Dernelle
07-21-2010, 01:57 AM
If the Kings GM made that trade he should face a guillotine...also I believe you are forgetting that Drury has a no movement clause and stated before that he'd rather be a 4th liner on the Rangers than on another team. Drury is stuck in NY until his contract is over.

nyr1980
07-21-2010, 02:01 AM
Ive no problem with Drury playing out his contract. And no matter what, I dont see redden buried in hartford. Maybe they send him down next year and then buy him out in summer 2012 when the meat of his contract is gone. I think the devs will find a way to make this happen- also NHLPA will file the grievance- this sit could actually get very protracted and take all damn summer- lets hope that now that the league has taken a proactive approach, they wont let this drag on into late august or beyond.

Isca92
07-21-2010, 02:37 AM
I don't even know what to say about this. I was saying no way the nhl turns this down due to the other contracts of this nature. Lou just went above and beyond the previous ones and I commend him for that. I believe the deal will be restructured around guidelines given. The question is who is gonna dance with Lou so that he can sign Kovi, ( I sure hes got a friend or two that could help him out).

As for the talks of LA trading with us for a salary dump, so that we can sign the player they want, and give us the better player in the deal seems unlikely. Unless were giving up draft picks or something else besides Drury just doesn't make sense to me. Then again we did trade Gomez and got Mcdonagh out of it and were able to sign Gabby.

If this goes to an Arbitrator the league can say if you want to play there then play there for the 11 years and take off the 6 years of 550s. That puts the cap hit at 8.81 but will the devils want that price tag. They still have enough room to make that deal work (still under 10% over summer cushion), then Lou just has to find a dance partner by opening night for a trade.

IMO Kovi is signed again by the Devils, because he would look foolish after the press conference he had today. However, it would bring the rivalry to a new level if we some how snuck in and stole him. I don't know about you guys but I personally love all this because it gives us something to talk about and seems to make the summer go quicker and back to hockey season (the only sport I follow).

Isca92
07-21-2010, 02:45 AM
"p.s. s/w a friend of Drury's - he's not going anywhere - kids love school in NY and he wont waive his NTC".

Matthew Barry, Hockeybuzz
http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Matthew-Barry/WTF/125/29433

Loaded with the whole conspiracy theory's in here but that was at the end, so I figured I put that out there.

bbpagewolf
07-21-2010, 04:59 AM
Hey, don't blame me for these rumors, blame Eklund. I didn't want to have to bring this up, but there was one other thing he bought up to sign Kovy and (this is gonna stab everyone right here) that was to possibly trade Gaborik to the Kings instead of Drury (which is what makes me want to believe that Eklund was drunk last night while he was typing all this).

Isca92
07-21-2010, 05:09 AM
I know Eklund said it, Im just saying why I don't see it happening. I mean there could be more to it, like 2 first round draft picks for them, something of that nature (which with the nice stockpile of prospects we can afford), Im just saying that I don't see it happening. I also stated a couple different times that some of the other moves that we have pulled off as well as other things that have happened.

IMO if the contract gets respread everything works out and Kovi stays in NJ. The Hossa deal has 4 joke years and Kovi had 6. I think if they put the salaries in a better order they could have a better argument. The proposed contract's first 10 years has a cap hit of 9.5, the next 7 would be a cap hit of 1, if they were looked at as separate deals. If it was spread like this it would be a lot harder to argue anything against it due to the Hossa precedent.

First 8 years 9 mil (gives 8 mill to spread through the rest). Next 2 years 7.5, which is the average 2 years of the previous contract. 5.5 instead of 3.5, followed by 3.5, 2.5, 1, then 1, ending with 2 years at 7.5. The difference is there is only 4 joke years which is only 1.3 difference between the rejected offer and my spread of the same dollars.

That follows the Hossa precedent a little better when looking at the spread of the contract. Hossa has 7 years at the same price, this would have 8. The last 4 years would be a joke for each of them. This breakdown the numbers would slide better than Hossa's and the joke years would only cost 1.3 mill difference in salary and still have the same cap hit. This is why I see him staying in NJ.

dashripdot
07-21-2010, 08:43 AM
Hey, don't blame me for these rumors, blame Eklund. I didn't want to have to bring this up, but there was one other thing he bought up to sign Kovy and (this is gonna stab everyone right here) that was to possibly trade Gaborik to the Kings instead of Drury (which is what makes me want to believe that Eklund was drunk last night while he was typing all this).

Typing? This sort of "rumor" (they don't even qualify as such -- they're made up, whole cloth) must have been written in crayon, they're so childish. Maybe he should protect his laptop with a password.

dashripdot
07-21-2010, 08:50 AM
I have an idea: In the next CBA, insert a provision that, in longterm contracts (more than three years in length) any years remaining after a player retires (except in cases of catastrophic injury) count against the cap for the remainder of the deal. No more cap-friendly extravaganzas.

liltedspop
07-21-2010, 08:52 AM
my check has not bounced just yet has it!!!!!!!

liltedspop
07-21-2010, 09:28 AM
I fully expect the nhlpa to find some common ground here & get this contract ratified or this could be the beginning of the end for hockey once the current cba expires, we could be looking at another work stoppage due to uncle Lou & cousin Illya!

liltedspop
07-21-2010, 09:31 AM
I have an idea: In the next CBA, insert a provision that, in longterm contracts (more than three years in length) any years remaining after a player retires (except in cases of catastrophic injury) count against the cap for the remainder of the deal. No more cap-friendly extravaganzas.

thats a great idea dash, I mean all of these teams just do what they want anyway, the cryers with Pronger, the wings with Franzen & Zetterburg & now the devils. we can call it the cheaters clause or the uncle lou provision!

great88
07-21-2010, 09:40 AM
told you all yestarday , this contract wasnt happening

Redfish
07-21-2010, 09:41 AM
I fully expect the nhlpa to find some common ground here & get this contract ratified or this could be the beginning of the end for hockey once the current cba expires, we could be looking at another work stoppage due to uncle Lou & cousin Illya!

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/NHL-investigating-Hossa-deal-Scare-tactic-or-ta?urn=nhl,180068

Decent summary of how the NHL reacted to Hossa's contract.

I think the NHL has drawn a line in the sand with this Kovy contract, and all future contracts which bring a player out beyond the age of 40 with minimal salary during those late years. I don't think that, just because other contracts were approved, this contract will be ratified at all. The NHL almost has to take this stand going into the next CBA process; it's that important.

If Kovy wants to remain a Devil (and I never thought this was his first choice), he'll have to lower his price, because any restructured contract will likely result in a cap hit of $8mm per season, or higher. That may take the Devils out of the picture, even though the owner seems to want to sign Kovy at all/any cost.

gabby10
07-21-2010, 09:57 AM
Why do any of you want him?? He's gonna be a big salary hit and guess what else? He hates the rangers. And I don't want to point fingers (Sean Avery) but kovy will be horrible for morale in the locker room. Also, we don't need another top 5 scorer (were not the Heat) we need a playmaking center. If there were three pucks on the ice between gabby and kovy, it still wouldn't be enough for two top 5 scorers to share!! xxxx KOVY!!!

dashripdot
07-21-2010, 10:07 AM
Rangers need a lot of scoring. They had none last year beyond Gaborik. And Avery is good for morale in the locker room?

metalbest
07-21-2010, 10:09 AM
The NHL rejected the deal, but the NHLPA will file a grievance and the deal will go through. There isn't anything in the deal that is actually against CBA rules, unless I'm missing something. The NHL might not like it but they will have to live with it until the next CBA. Thats just how I see this playing out. Especially since these deals have already happened in the past without the NHL rejecting them. It may be a long drawn out process but I think the NHL loses this fight.

imbetterthanyou
07-21-2010, 10:09 AM
anyone who thinks this deal is not going to get done is an idiot. Hes gonna sign the rangers aren't gonna swoop in and get him...they've never had a shot at getting him. if any one of those ******** strings of rumors happens ill be a very happy guy....if we could honestly trade gaborik for jack johnson and be assured of signing kovalchuk id do it in a nano-second. and then id take staal and flip his overhyped self to some other gm that thinks the same as everyone else in this thread does and get some help down the middle. but seeing how as all of these are pipe dreams it really wont matter...cause the rangers will probably still suck this year cause weve actually regressed so far this offseason :cool:

Redfish
07-21-2010, 10:52 AM
The NHL rejected the deal, but the NHLPA will file a grievance and the deal will go through. There isn't anything in the deal that is actually against CBA rules, unless I'm missing something. The NHL might not like it but they will have to live with it until the next CBA. Thats just how I see this playing out. Especially since these deals have already happened in the past without the NHL rejecting them. It may be a long drawn out process but I think the NHL loses this fight.

It comes down to a legal judgement on whether the contract terms artificially lowers the average annual value of the contract. The fact the NHL approved past similar contracts is irrelevant because, in those cases, the NHL chose not to contest those contracts. Those contracts also were not as heavily front-loaded as this contract. The NHL is taking a stand here, on this specific contract, and that is all that matters. Can it be restructured in a satisfactory manner? Possibly, but to say, emphatically, the NHL has no legal ground to void this contract is, well, I'll leave it at that.........

oak2455
07-21-2010, 11:17 AM
Kings/Rangers Getting Back In On Kovalchuk? Gaborik Trade to LA? Leafs?

This just in...

As the NHL and the NJ Devils attempt to figure this all out, Ilya Kovalchuk is a complete and utter UFA once more. That's right. He could sign with any other team right now. Of course, it is very safe to assume the Kovalchuk camp will give the Devils time here, but how much time?...that remains a huge mystery.

Two prior deals, which the NHL has approved, the Hossa deal and the Luongo deal do indeed make the NHL's decision here harder to support. But if the NHL takes a hard stand, which it sure looks like they are prepared to, and the two sides go to arbitration, the result could be at least a month away. Ilya can't wait that long. By that time almost every other option for Kovalchuk would vanish..

I have it from a great source that within minutes of the ruling coming down the LA Kings were talking Kovalchuk again......just considering their options...today, perhaps within hours, I expect to have more news regarding the Kings as to whether or not they will go back hard to Kovalchuk's camp. My bet...they do.

BIG TRADE RUMOR>

Another rumor that just broke is the Rangers are considering trading Marian Gaborik to the LA Kings and signing Kovalchuk. Very interesting rumor indeed. We all remember Gaborik had wanted to play in LA going into last summer's UFA period prior to signing in NY.

However, also interesting is the possibility that Kovalchuk signs a short term (3-5yr) deal somewhere else entirely.

A one year deal in Washington is out there, and I have heard the Maple Leafs are the real team to watch here. The Leafs may offer up a 3 year deal at 9 per is the rumor, but of course that is purely rumor right now, and not coming from within the Leafs organization.

In the end I have to still believe Kovalchuk will be a Devil...but all this could change VERY quickly.

I will be back with my blog concerning other player rumors. I was out last night with a good source and have been putting together info all morning..

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklund/KingsRangers-Getting-Back-In-On-Kovalchuk-Gaborik-Trade-to-LA-Leafs/1/29435

liltedspop
07-21-2010, 11:18 AM
anyone who thinks this deal is not going to get done is an idiot. Hes gonna sign the rangers aren't gonna swoop in and get him...they've never had a shot at getting him. if any one of those ******** strings of rumors happens ill be a very happy guy....if we could honestly trade gaborik for jack johnson and be assured of signing kovalchuk id do it in a nano-second. and then id take staal and flip his overhyped self to some other gm that thinks the same as everyone else in this thread does and get some help down the middle. but seeing how as all of these are pipe dreams it really wont matter...cause the rangers will probably still suck this year cause weve actually regressed so far this offseason :cool:

well that was a colorful post & you could not be more right on Staal he is totally overhyped I been saying it for years & I'll say it as long as I have breath in my lungs. To pay Staal 4 mill. per is worse than giving Kovalchuk 10 mill per at the very least you get 40 goals out of Kovalchuk what does Marc Staal bring to the table not as much as alot of people give him credit for thats for sure. Personally I think Staal is about as over rated a player as there is in the game today. To hear people talk about him you would think there talking about Larry Robinson or some incarnation of him. If opposing gm's find Marc Staal to be so attractive that they are willing to send us a top 3 player I make that trade in a hot second!

liltedspop
07-21-2010, 11:25 AM
The hot talk right now is that Gaborik is going to be traded to the Kings, I heard it on 3 different radio stations in Canada I have Calgary sports talk radio streaming right now & they were just saying that this appears to be very close to getting done!

liltedspop
07-21-2010, 11:27 AM
lolwut?

yo jf89 long time no see how u been?

mmmrevolver93
07-21-2010, 11:31 AM
yo jf89 long time no see how u been?

LTP, what is your source saying about these rumors of trading gaborik and signing kovalchuk? does it actually have legs? and IMO im not sure kovy is that much better than gaborik for the years and money we would have to pay for him...

oak2455
07-21-2010, 11:32 AM
The hot talk right now is that Gaborik is going to be traded to the Kings, I heard it on 3 different radio stations in Canada I have Calgary sports talk radio streaming right now & they were just saying that this appears to be very close to getting done!

then what they sign Kovy?

liltedspop
07-21-2010, 11:36 AM
i dont know what they do, it's not a source MMM it's the fan960 in Calgary!

liltedspop
07-21-2010, 11:38 AM
heard the same thing on the team990 in montreal too gaborik to the kings for Jack Johnson

oak2455
07-21-2010, 11:42 AM
heard the same thing on the team990 in montreal too gaborik to the kings for Jack Johnson

then get Kovy thats nice??

imbetterthanyou
07-21-2010, 11:46 AM
Sorry for it being colorful, but I seem to be one of few not under the delusion that the rangers are anywhere near contending for a cup. I was on the bandwagon of the Lundqvist trade rumor for semin in the beginning of the offseason and im certainly on the trade staal bandwagon. If you guys wanna improve when you have zero cap, you have to trade from strength to address weakness. There are a lot more serviceable goalies and defenders in this day and age than there are scorers that can light you up and strike fear in the hearts of oppositions. Kovalchuks are a dime a dozen...sure everyones like OMFG OMFG what if we overpay....honestly theres almost no such thing as overpaying for the leading goal scorer of the last however many years. Think of the teams that just went to the finals...they are LOADED with firepower...niemi and leighton are nobodies. Granted blackhawks had a real good d but the flyers d outside of pronger is not the greatest in the world. Trading Gaborik is kinda odd to me to be honest but if it is somehow related to locking up Kovalchuk i'd be glad to see it go through. Am I the only who thinks the rangers need to be blown up? Our team is comprised of 1 1st liner 2 second liners and 8 3-4 line players.

mmmrevolver93
07-21-2010, 11:52 AM
i dont know what they do, it's not a source MMM it's the fan960 in Calgary!

Ohh, i thought you said you knew someone in edmonton who gives you info once in a while.. my bad... and anyway i want brendyn schenn too... straight up johnson for gaborik no way, if we get schenn too.. maybe .

rocowear21
07-21-2010, 11:52 AM
Sorry for it being colorful, but I seem to be one of few not under the delusion that the rangers are anywhere near contending for a cup. I was on the bandwagon of the Lundqvist trade rumor for semin in the beginning of the offseason and im certainly on the trade staal bandwagon. If you guys wanna improve when you have zero cap, you have to trade from strength to address weakness. There are a lot more serviceable goalies and defenders in this day and age than there are scorers that can light you up and strike fear in the hearts of oppositions. Kovalchuks are a dime a dozen...sure everyones like OMFG OMFG what if we overpay....honestly theres almost no such thing as overpaying for the leading goal scorer of the last however many years. Think of the teams that just went to the finals...they are LOADED with firepower...niemi and leighton are nobodies. Granted blackhawks had a real good d but the flyers d outside of pronger is not the greatest in the world. Trading Gaborik is kinda odd to me to be honest but if it is somehow related to locking up Kovalchuk i'd be glad to see it go through. Am I the only who thinks the rangers need to be blown up? Our team is comprised of 1 1st liner 2 second liners and 8 3-4 line players.

Agree with you basically 100%. I was for the trade with the caps for semin and a couple other players for Henrick. The only reason I was against it was I didnt want to have to face him so many times lol. Anyway you are right. We have a abundance of d man in our organization. I would hate to lose staal because he is the best D man in our organization but we have absolutly no scoring on this team besides Gabs. Now I am hearing that Gabs might be traded to the Kings for Jack Johnson who I wouldnt mind. But yet then we are getting rid of our only offensive fire power for another D man. So we lose gabs and pick up Kovi. Well it sounds nice but we are still only going to have 1 high threat scorer on this team.

liltedspop
07-21-2010, 11:54 AM
mmm it would be like trading Gaborik for Jack Johnson & Illya Kovalchuk & I make that deal so fast It would make your head spin. I d have a buddy who lives in Edmonton & we do talk on occasion texting back & forth & he does tell me what he hears up there but this is strictly off the radio waves anyone can tunes in.

rocowear21
07-21-2010, 11:56 AM
If anything I think the rangers need to send Staal, Brashear, and Washingtons Second away for another scoring winger. I understand we have a huge hole at top line center. But then yet again we are only stacking one line. We need more scoring on other lines. Unless the rangers turn around and trade for a top line center and then turn around and sign frolov to a contract and put him on the second line. I am willing to def gamble on frolov.

rocowear21
07-21-2010, 11:57 AM
mmm it would be like trading Gaborik for Jack Johnson & Illya Kovalchuk & I make that deal so fast It would make your head spin. I d have a buddy who lives in Edmonton & we do talk on occasion texting back & forth & he does tell me what he hears up there but this is strictly off the radio waves anyone can tunes in.

I would do the trade if we were guaranteed to get kovi. We would be screwed if we lose out on kovi. But in the deal I try to send a contract like Brash along with it. To try to free up that extra cap space.

liltedspop
07-21-2010, 11:58 AM
lets say we do deal Gaborik for Jack Johnson & sign Kovalchuk, we could then trade Staal & Dubinsky to get Getzlaf it all makes sense now. The dominoes are all falling into place either that or there are no dominoes at all & we're really playing chess hmmm or possibly badminton or maybe Slats is on a cruise playing high stakes shuffle board!

liltedspop
07-21-2010, 12:00 PM
could it be that this entire scenario is really just a deleted scene from inception I'm getting rather confused now.

rocowear21
07-21-2010, 12:00 PM
I believe Gabs is way more valuable then Jack Johnson. (Just my opinion). As we already have many D prospects that are fighting for a spot on this team. Now I am not knocking Jack at all. In fact I loved his play in the Olympics and in my NHL Games I always have traded for him.

But we are giving LA a 40 goal scorer. Either we give LA another bad contract in the deal or we get a major prospect in the organization on the offensive side. I just think we get raped in the deal if its 1 for 1

rocowear21
07-21-2010, 12:03 PM
lets say we do deal Gaborik for Jack Johnson & sign Kovalchuk, we could then trade Staal & Dubinsky to get Getzlaf it all makes sense now. The dominoes are all falling into place either that or there are no dominoes at all & we're really playing chess hmmm or possibly badminton or maybe Slats is on a cruise playing high stakes shuffle board!

I have looked and looked and have not seen 1 place where they were saying Getzlaf is being traded. Now if this is true then basically we would be a descent team. But that still does not help out the other lines on our team. So Jack Johnson would basically replace staal. We lose Dubi for Getzlaf. We lose Gabs for Kovi. Dont get me wrong but the top line looks amazing. But then here we are with lines 2 3 and 4. We need scoring depth and we just dont have it.

mmmrevolver93
07-21-2010, 12:09 PM
I believe Gabs is way more valuable then Jack Johnson. (Just my opinion). As we already have many D prospects that are fighting for a spot on this team. Now I am not knocking Jack at all. In fact I loved his play in the Olympics and in my NHL Games I always have traded for him.

But we are giving LA a 40 goal scorer. Either we give LA another bad contract in the deal or we get a major prospect in the organization on the offensive side. I just think we get raped in the deal if its 1 for 1

100% agree. either they take a bad contract or i want brendyn schenn end of story.

ElementCo27
07-21-2010, 12:14 PM
No. Trading Gaborik would defeat the purpose of getting another scorer. If Glenny boy makes a trade like that, I will shoot myself in the head because it goes nowhere. Kovy isn't going to the Rangers, nor do I want him here anymore. Staal is going to be resigned and Getzlaf isn't getting moved. Don't even bring up that Washington trade, that was bad.

You're right though, this is a deleted scene from Inception because it's all a dream.

Lostnearhell
07-21-2010, 12:24 PM
BTW stop listening to Eklund. Kovy's contract isn't null and void until this has been decided. If the NHLPA fights it, he can't just go sign somewhere else. Please stop listening to the drunk Eklund

great88
07-21-2010, 12:30 PM
relax everybody

1. Kovalchuck is not going to the rangers.......

2. gaborik is not going anywhere ( these are just internet rumors)

3. staal is waiting for offer sheets ( most likely to return to the rangers)
Unless that deal with anaheim pushes through ( sather is still working on it )

4. redden on way out....


you heard it here!

liltedspop
07-21-2010, 12:38 PM
lostnearhall i dont know where u are getting your information but the fact is that Ilya Kovalchuk is still an unrestricted free agent & you guys ar elucky that stupid contract get rejected by the league your entire franchise is the laughing stock of the league right now.

Isca92
07-21-2010, 01:04 PM
LTP has some overdraft protection that the bank must have forgotten about. lol

LTP, what would you prefer the Rangers to do? Would you rather send Gabby packing and Get Johnson and Kovi or the Anaheim deal. Or do you really think that Glen has a big enough set and skill to do both?

liltedspop
07-21-2010, 01:15 PM
LTP has some overdraft protection that the bank must have forgotten about. lol

LTP, what would you prefer the Rangers to do? Would you rather send Gabby packing and Get Johnson and Kovi or the Anaheim deal. Or do you really think that Glen has a big enough set and skill to do both?

100 times over the Anaheim deal. We already know the Gaborik is a player who can handle NY & I think the guy is a better all around player than Kovalchuk anyway. To many of the Russian players cant handle criticism & playing for the Rangers you get alot of it, even though Newark is a few miles away make no mistake the devils will never be the Rangers & never receive the same attention that the Rangers do. I keep Gaborik & make a move on Anaheim or Dallas imo thats the right way to go here.

liltedspop
07-21-2010, 01:17 PM
When we win & we may not do it that often we march down the CANYON OF HEROES they had a parade in the parking lot of the continental air lines arena nuff said!

fingerbang
07-21-2010, 01:25 PM
No. Trading Gaborik would defeat the purpose of getting another scorer. If Glenny boy makes a trade like that, I will shoot myself in the head because it goes nowhere. Kovy isn't going to the Rangers, nor do I want him here anymore. Staal is going to be resigned and Getzlaf isn't getting moved. Don't even bring up that Washington trade, that was bad.

You're right though, this is a deleted scene from Inception because it's all a dream.


This is one of the most logical arguments I have heard in these forums. Gabs is a better and more complete player than kovi. He has also proven to us that he belongs in our system. Kovi isn't guaranteed success in our system (often times free agents do not transfer their success to the new team). Staal HAS to be re-signed. He's not overrated-he's our best defensive defenseman. We do not have another player who could consistently match-up with the likes of ovechkin and Crosby( he’s worth 4- volchenkov and michalek just got 4). Sorry LTP I appreciate all the work you do here in the forum but the Semin deal that you brought up was a joke. Has anyone watched him in the playoffs? He was as non-existent as zherdev. He's got a wicked shot but he can be bullied around. If you send lundquist to washington you basically give them a dynasty. Hanks jersey will be hanging in the garden one day-assuming we don’t do anything stupid.

ElementCo27
07-21-2010, 01:44 PM
This is one of the most logical arguments I have heard in these forums. Gabs is a better and more complete player than kovi. He has also proven to us that he belongs in our system. Kovi isn't guaranteed success in our system (often times free agents do not transfer their success to the new team). Staal HAS to be re-signed. He's not overrated-he's our best defensive defenseman. We do not have another player who could consistently match-up with the likes of ovechkin and Crosby( he’s worth 4- volchenkov and michalek just got 4). Sorry LTP I appreciate all the work you do here in the forum but the Semin deal that you brought up was a joke. Has anyone watched him in the playoffs? He was as non-existent as zherdev. He's got a wicked shot but he can be bullied around. If you send lundquist to washington you basically give them a dynasty. Hanks jersey will be hanging in the garden one day-assuming we don’t do anything stupid.

Thank you and I agree as well. The stat sheet doesn't say everything about a player, especially for Staal. When the Rangers play Washington I feel more assured about a victory because we have him. He can defend Ovechkin and it's remarkable to do so. With Semin too, I mean, if I wanted a drummer on our team I'd call him in a heartbeat lol.

Oh and mmm, don't forget "wrist shot" and "slap shot." Maybe even "five-hole" too. :D

nyr1980
07-21-2010, 01:45 PM
Love the development with Kovy- but everyone needs to hold their horses a bit. You gotta think a few things here first.
1) Despite anything else- he did sign a contract wtih NJ so he has some desire to be there- though hed probably prefer elsewhere
2) The Kovy camp will give the devils some time here to rework things, if only a little bit
3) The PA will file the grievance if push comes to shove and then it goes to arbitration and all bets are off
4) Uncle Lou is the best gm in the sport, maybe all of sports and has a sterling rep and is very well liked bot around the league and in the league offices, so in the end i cant see this breaking against him

He'll likely remain a devil

SLY WILLIAMS
07-21-2010, 01:46 PM
I'm actually worried about Gabs holding up and being able to repeat last seasons success. I thought he wore down as the season went on and after the Flyers incident.

I really want to add a point producer that has some real size and grit (Like Kovy) to go with Gabs so he doesnt have to shoulder the goal scoring load so much.

nyr1980
07-21-2010, 01:51 PM
This is one of the most logical arguments I have heard in these forums. Gabs is a better and more complete player than kovi. He has also proven to us that he belongs in our system. Kovi isn't guaranteed success in our system (often times free agents do not transfer their success to the new team). Staal HAS to be re-signed. He's not overrated-he's our best defensive defenseman. We do not have another player who could consistently match-up with the likes of ovechkin and Crosby( he’s worth 4- volchenkov and michalek just got 4). Sorry LTP I appreciate all the work you do here in the forum but the Semin deal that you brought up was a joke. Has anyone watched him in the playoffs? He was as non-existent as zherdev. He's got a wicked shot but he can be bullied around. If you send lundquist to washington you basically give them a dynasty. Hanks jersey will be hanging in the garden one day-assuming we don’t do anything stupid.

Yes, Gabs is the more complete player- actually an underrated defensive player and though its not his game, he'll play with a little physicality.

I think people also forget that staal is only 23 and has played less than 250 reg. season games. The learning and development curve is so much longer for defenseen than for forwards because of all the ice, all the minutes and all of the responsibilities they have. Hes got another 2-3 seasons of development and improvement ahead of him. Not to draw comparisons, but Brian Leetch took 3 or 4 full years to develop a complete NHL game. Staal has nowhere near that kind of offensive ability, but developmentally, thats how long it takes.

nyr1980
07-21-2010, 01:55 PM
I'm actually worried about Gabs holding up and being able to repeat last seasons success. I thought he wore down as the season went on and after the Flyers incident.

I really want to add a point producer that has some real size and grit (Like Kovy) to go with Gabs so he doesnt have to shoulder the goal scoring load so much.

Thats the nail on the head. Gabs did wear down, all the attention and prssure to score takes its toll on even the greatest players. Im not up for moving him unless it brings a better player back right then. As for comparing him to Kovy, how much better is he really? And even if you say Kovy's the better goal scorer, Gaborik is a better skater with more speed, is a much better passer/playmaker, is better defensively and is way better without the pack and away from the play

fingerbang
07-21-2010, 01:56 PM
I'm actually worried about Gabs holding up and being able to repeat last seasons success. I thought he wore down as the season went on and after the Flyers incident.

I really want to add a point producer that has some real size and grit (Like Kovy) to go with Gabs so he doesnt have to shoulder the goal scoring load so much.

I agree. Gaborik has a terrible injury history however I will take his 7.5 cap hit over kovi's 9-10 hit any day of the week. Gab's deal is also short and does not extend beyond his prime. A kovy deal would most likely expire when he is 37 or 38. The rangers historically have too many old players that kill us at the end of their career.

ElementCo27
07-21-2010, 01:57 PM
I'm actually worried about Gabs holding up and being able to repeat last seasons success. I thought he wore down as the season went on and after the Flyers incident.

I really want to add a point producer that has some real size and grit (Like Kovy) to go with Gabs so he doesnt have to shoulder the goal scoring load so much.

Well, Gaborik did have his best season with the New York Rangers after all. He even got injured after the olympic break and still played. I know the whole "he'll never play a full season," but he didn't miss too many games this season. Also, with the Rangers medical staff I think he feels a lot better being here and will become more resilient over the years. Of course age will get to him eventually but right now, it looks like he's just getting better.

Flyers incident is easily covered with Boogaard. You're going to get the same thing with Kovy though because he gets himself into trouble too.

I want a point producer too, but I want a responsible one like Gaborik. Hell, maybe if Gilroy is on the wing he'll net 30 XD. I'm just kidding by the way.

nyr1980
07-21-2010, 02:01 PM
Well, Gaborik did have his best season with the New York Rangers after all. He even got injured after the olympic break and still played. I know the whole "he'll never play a full season," but he didn't miss too many games this season. Also, with the Rangers medical staff I think he feels a lot better being here and will become more resilient over the years. Of course age will get to him eventually but right now, it looks like he's just getting better.

Flyers incident is easily covered with Boogaard. You're going to get the same thing with Kovy though because he gets himself into trouble too.

I want a point producer too, but I want a responsible one like Gaborik. Hell, maybe if Gilroy is on the wing he'll net 30 XD. I'm just kidding by the way.

Gabs will have nagging little injuries as every player does and maybe more than the average player because of all th attentionn and bodies he has to take until they add someone else opponents have to pay close attention to. I think the bigger injuries are behind though- most of that stuff was associated with the hip and leg and the surgery he had in 08-09 was intended to handle that. He could have had that surgery earlier,but did not want to miss basically a whole season, so they put it off as long as they could

dashripdot
07-21-2010, 02:07 PM
I'm actually worried about Gabs holding up and being able to repeat last seasons success. I thought he wore down as the season went on and after the Flyers incident.

I really want to add a point producer that has some real size and grit (Like Kovy) to go with Gabs so he doesnt have to shoulder the goal scoring load so much.

I think the injury just prior to the Olympics and then playing in the Olympics gassed him. He'll be even more productive this season if healthy. Prospal is a worry too, with his history of one-year on, one-year off production. If Prospal's on his game, I suspect Gaborik will be fine.

Who do you prefer: Frolov, Stempniak, Ponikorovsky or Fedotenko? I think Poni was a bit overwhelmed by playing with Crosby and didn't have time to mesh with him. Stempniak is explosive, but streaky. Frolov might be asking for too much (and get it from Sather!). Fedotenko uses his body better than Poni. I'm not sold on any of them.

oak2455
07-21-2010, 02:14 PM
Not exactly a solid source, but might as well throw it out there....

http://twitter.com/NHLSourcesSay
The Kings have offered the Rangers Williams, Teubert, and a farm player for Gaborik.
4 minutes ago via Twitter for BlackBerry®

legit source???

nyr1980
07-21-2010, 02:22 PM
Not exactly a solid source, but might as well throw it out there....

NHLSourcesSay
The Kings have offered the Rangers Williams, Teubert, and a farm player for Gaborik.
4 minutes ago via Twitter for BlackBerry®

legit source???

No way- Teubert- ANOTHER young defense prospect. Unless the farm player is Schenn, forget it. And I like Justin Williams, but hes missed SO many games in the last 3 years

nyr1980
07-21-2010, 02:24 PM
Teubert has yet to play in the AHL- only pro games have been ECHL games.

SLY WILLIAMS
07-21-2010, 02:27 PM
I think the injury just prior to the Olympics and then playing in the Olympics gassed him. He'll be even more productive this season if healthy. Prospal is a worry too, with his history of one-year on, one-year off production. If Prospal's on his game, I suspect Gaborik will be fine.

Who do you prefer: Frolov, Stempniak, Ponikorovsky or Fedotenko? I think Poni was a bit overwhelmed by playing with Crosby and didn't have time to mesh with him. Stempniak is explosive, but streaky. Frolov might be asking for too much (and get it from Sather!). Fedotenko uses his body better than Poni. I'm not sold on any of them.

I honestly havent seen 3 of them play enough to make a good call.

I also dont usually ride the rumor train up down and all around. I'm more the kind of guy that would rather wait until something that really has a chance to happen comes through rather than endless speculation. With Kovy I hoped there would be a chance but right now I havent really heard anything from non rumor site sources. :)

rocowear21
07-21-2010, 02:27 PM
I dont know much about the kings, I will be honest. But I have no idea who any of those players are. LOL, If anything for Gabs Jack Johnson needs to be involved in the deal.

The player I would really target even though its just a pipe dream is kopitar. I want him and Johnson and I would give up anything to have them. I will go with Gabs, Dubi, Staal Rights for Johnson and Kopitar. Turn around and sign frolov and I would be a very happy man. Or turn around and make me more happy instead of frolov get kovi. LOL yes.

SLY WILLIAMS
07-21-2010, 02:30 PM
If the money was the same I would prefer Kovys size and skills to Gabs but I'd prefer them both together even more. :)

redwhiteandblue
07-21-2010, 02:42 PM
Not exactly a solid source, but might as well throw it out there....

http://twitter.com/NHLSourcesSay
The Kings have offered the Rangers Williams, Teubert, and a farm player for Gaborik.
4 minutes ago via Twitter for BlackBerry®

legit source???

Not sure of the source, the deal stinks.

Williams is in the last year of his horrid contract. I don't care what kind of 'solid' year, if you want to call it that, that he had. LA's been waiting for this contract to expire for years now IIRC so there's no need to take back a player like that.

Teubert is an intriguing name. He had some buzz around him draft day, especially being recognized as a great pick for LA to compliment Hickey in the future. I would prefer Hickey but that's because he brings more reward to the table and he's more NHL ready. Although Hickey has a better future Teubert isn't that far off, I suppose it's a matter of what kind of D you want. Hickey is more of a 2 way D who stands out in his offensive game, Teubert is like McIlrath just not as nasty and more naturally talented. So pick your poison.

Either way if we were to trade Gabs to LA I would ask for something along the lines of this:
2 of Hickey/Schenn/Teubert/either Quick or Bernier/Simmonds

I would send something back also. Seeing as we have no pressing need to move Gaborik for Kovalchuk I would ask for a little extra but show good faith to work a deal with offering more then Gabs. Maybe something like...

1 of Hickey or Schenn
If Hickey then Quick or Bernier or someone like Simmonds or Moller/If Schenn then Teubert
NHL ready roster player or pick

for

Gabs
Gilroy/Pick/roster player
mid level prospect

mmmrevolver93
07-21-2010, 02:45 PM
No way do i like that deal even if schenn is the farm player.. johnson has to be in that deal end of story, or sather shouldnt even give it a thought.

mmmrevolver93
07-21-2010, 02:47 PM
Not sure of the source, the deal stinks.

Williams is in the last year of his horrid contract. I don't care what kind of 'solid' year, if you want to call it that, that he had. LA's been waiting for this contract to expire for years now IIRC so there's no need to take back a player like that.

Teubert is an intriguing name. He had some buzz around him draft day, especially being recognized as a great pick for LA to compliment Hickey in the future. I would prefer Hickey but that's because he brings more reward to the table and he's more NHL ready. Although Hickey has a better future Teubert isn't that far off, I suppose it's a matter of what kind of D you want. Hickey is more of a 2 way D who stands out in his offensive game, Teubert is like McIlrath just not as nasty and more naturally talented. So pick your poison.

Either way if we were to trade Gabs to LA I would ask for something along the lines of this:
2 of Hickey/Schenn/Teubert/either Quick or Bernier/Simmonds

I would send something back also. Seeing as we have no pressing need to move Gaborik for Kovalchuk I would ask for a little extra but show good faith to work a deal with offering more then Gabs. Maybe something like...

1 of Hickey or Schenn
If Hickey then Quick or Bernier or someone like Simmonds or Moller/If Schenn then Teubert
NHL ready roster player or pick

for

Gabs
Gilroy/Pick/roster player
mid level prospect

Quick? you realize we just signed biron right.. he wouldnt make any sense at all

Lostnearhell
07-21-2010, 02:51 PM
lostnearhall i dont know where u are getting your information but the fact is that Ilya Kovalchuk is still an unrestricted free agent & you guys ar elucky that stupid contract get rejected by the league your entire franchise is the laughing stock of the league right now.

"So here's how the thing plays out: The Devils have five days to submit a restructured contract to the NHL for approval or rejection. It's expected the team and the League would work together to find a workable solution. If they don't re-file, and the NHLPA doesn't file a grievance, then Kovalchuk's a free agent. " - Yahoo Sports

Whats yours?

liltedspop
07-21-2010, 02:56 PM
i does not get any more clear than this!

As the NHL and the NJ Devils attempt to figure this all out, Ilya Kovalchuk is a complete and utter UFA once more. That's right. He could sign with any other team right now. Of course, it is very safe to assume the Kovalchuk camp will give the Devils time here, but how much time?...that remains a huge mystery.

Two prior deals, which the NHL has approved, the Hossa deal and the Luongo deal do indeed make the NHL's decision here harder to support. But if the NHL takes a hard stand, which it sure looks like they are prepared to, and the two sides go to arbitration, the result could be at least a month away. Ilya can't wait that long. By that time almost every other option for Kovalchuk would vanish.

I have it from a great source that within minutes of the ruling coming down the LA Kings were talking Kovalchuk again......just considering their options...today, perhaps within hours, I expect to have more news regarding the Kings as to whether or not they will go back hard to Kovalchuk's camp. My bet...they do.

redwhiteandblue
07-21-2010, 03:00 PM
I dont know much about the kings, I will be honest. But I have no idea who any of those players are. LOL, If anything for Gabs Jack Johnson needs to be involved in the deal.

The player I would really target even though its just a pipe dream is kopitar. I want him and Johnson and I would give up anything to have them. I will go with Gabs, Dubi, Staal Rights for Johnson and Kopitar. Turn around and sign frolov and I would be a very happy man. Or turn around and make me more happy instead of frolov get kovi. LOL yes.

Didn't even think about JJ. A simpler better deal would be:

Jack Johnson
Brayden Schenn

for

Gabs
Gilroy
A prospect like Pashnin or one of those mid-level fringe top propsects
maybe even a late pick

Lostnearhell
07-21-2010, 03:03 PM
hahahah you source is an eklund blog ahahahahahahah

"And what of Kovalchuk, who will again find himself an unrestricted free agent if he and agent Jay Grossman can't find a way to rework the contract with the Devils to satisfy the NHL?" - ESPN

nyr1980
07-21-2010, 03:04 PM
Didn't even think about JJ. A simpler better deal would be:

Jack Johnson
Brayden Schenn

for

Gabs
Gilroy
A prospect like Pashnin or one of those mid-level fringe top propsects
maybe even a late pick

Thats a deal worth looking at, but you would have to be more or less assure of signing kovalcuhk- unless you are saying that they should make this deal, stand pat, ride out the bad contracts as much as possible and really commit to a true youth movement.

A player like Schenn would possibly be a guy you could center a youth movement around

redwhiteandblue
07-21-2010, 03:04 PM
Quick? you realize we just signed biron right.. he wouldnt make any sense at all

...on a two year deal. Quick is a young stud goaltender. LA is holding onto two of the elite young goalies moving forward. I would put Bernier and Quick in a group with the likes of Rask, Howard, Varlamov if he can regain form and so on.

I even think that they could serve back up to Hank for 2 or 3 years. Or hell, and we all know I'm one of the biggest anti-advocates of it, trading Lundqvist. My biggest hold up of trading him is that your hard pressed to find a goalie who can even manage to fill his goalie skates. You get one of those two, you open the door of trading high on Lundqvist now or trading him in a 2-4 years and getting pieces that will help us moving forward.

redwhiteandblue
07-21-2010, 03:14 PM
Thats a deal worth looking at, but you would have to be more or less assure of signing kovalcuhk- unless you are saying that they should make this deal, stand pat, ride out the bad contracts as much as possible and really commit to a true youth movement.

A player like Schenn would possibly be a guy you could center a youth movement around

Meh, it could work anyway I suppose, youth movement or signing Ilya, but I wouldn't move Gabs+ just to re-inforce a youth movement we're already waist deep in. We're doing alright considering our situation. We have very good youth with a lot of potential reward waiting in the wings, yet we have guys like Lundqvist and Gaborik. Both are true stars in this league, are in their prime now and when our youth is developed and accustomed to this level of play, despite being on the wrong side of 30, they'll be far from effective and still very good NHL players to compliment the rest of the team.

So if I were Sather, no I don't do it just to get JJ and Schenn. Yea I do that deal if it's rest assured we have Kovalchuk signing on.

That said, 2 of my favorite non-Rangers are Gabs n Kovy and I like Gabs much more. He's not as 1-dimensional as Kovy by any means, it's just merely the health thing looking forward though.

Funny though, in a perfect world if we did have the choice of to make this trade get Kovy or stay put, you're decision comes down to this: Do we keep Marian who is equally if not more talented then Kovalchuk, backchecks, will lay a body or two (not bone crunchers) responsibly, has already proven that the big stage of NY is no big deal, YET he brings the whole health issue to the table which could be moot, non-existent and nothing to worry about or waiting to bite us big down the road.

Or, you get Ilya who is equally as talented as Marian if not more, doesn't really backcheck, is a naturally bigger build and stronger player, will play physical and lay the body but too often then not will do it harmfully, has never thrived under pressure yet he's been healthy and in the regular season even when not on his best is still a big goal producer.

It's a huge catch-22 in a sense. Both phenomenal talents proven on the NHL level, both far from perfect who's flaws really make you think twice about them.

mmmrevolver93
07-21-2010, 03:16 PM
...on a two year deal. Quick is a young stud goaltender. LA is holding onto two of the elite young goalies moving forward. I would put Bernier and Quick in a group with the likes of Rask, Howard, Varlamov if he can regain form and so on.

I even think that they could serve back up to Hank for 2 or 3 years. Or hell, and we all know I'm one of the biggest anti-advocates of it, trading Lundqvist. My biggest hold up of trading him is that your hard pressed to find a goalie who can even manage to fill his goalie skates. You get one of those two, you open the door of trading high on Lundqvist now or trading him in a 2-4 years and getting pieces that will help us moving forward.

Trade lundqvist our proven, stud, franchise goaltender who is still in his prime... yea no. And now we are going to trade our star scorer for a guy that could back up hank in two years.. dumb move and it will never happen.

fingerbang
07-21-2010, 03:20 PM
The only logical reason to trade away Gabs would be too dump atleast drury and probably rosy too-unfortunately there isn't a trading partner capable of this. I'm not sold on Jack Johnson at all. It would be a major mistake to rid ourselves of gaborik just too make room for kovi.

Isca92
07-21-2010, 03:30 PM
I personally don't think Gabs is better than Kovi. With that said I wouldn't trade Gabs and hope that Kovi signs with us, unless we are absolutely sure that Kovi is signing with us and we can still pull off the Anaheim deal. The only reason is Jack Johnson replaces the loss of Staal, and we get a much better offense. Since it would be a huge gamble, Id stick with Gabs, cause if we send Gabs packing and only get Kovi we are in the same place we were last season.

nyr1980
07-21-2010, 03:32 PM
Meh, it could work anyway I suppose, youth movement or signing Ilya, but I wouldn't move Gabs+ just to re-inforce a youth movement we're already waist deep in. We're doing alright considering our situation. We have very good youth with a lot of potential reward waiting in the wings, yet we have guys like Lundqvist and Gaborik. Both are true stars in this league, are in their prime now and when our youth is developed and accustomed to this level of play, despite being on the wrong side of 30, they'll be far from effective and still very good NHL players to compliment the rest of the team.

So if I were Sather, no I don't do it just to get JJ and Schenn. Yea I do that deal if it's rest assured we have Kovalchuk signing on.

That said, 2 of my favorite non-Rangers are Gabs n Kovy and I like Gabs much more. He's not as 1-dimensional as Kovy by any means, it's just merely the health thing looking forward though.

Funny though, in a perfect world if we did have the choice of to make this trade get Kovy or stay put, you're decision comes down to this: Do we keep Marian who is equally if not more talented then Kovalchuk, backchecks, will lay a body or two (not bone crunchers) responsibly, has already proven that the big stage of NY is no big deal, YET he brings the whole health issue to the table which could be moot, non-existent and nothing to worry about or waiting to bite us big down the road.

Or, you get Ilya who is equally as talented as Marian if not more, doesn't really backcheck, is a naturally bigger build and stronger player, will play physical and lay the body but too often then not will do it harmfully, has never thrived under pressure yet he's been healthy and in the regular season even when not on his best is still a big goal producer.

It's a huge catch-22 in a sense. Both phenomenal talents proven on the NHL level, both far from perfect who's flaws really make you think twice about them.

I agree with your points, definitely a tough decision.

I cant call what the rangers are doing with the kids as a youth movement though. Yes they have played some younger kids lately and with good results and there is a nice pipeline of talent ready or close to ready to making the jump. But to me, a true youth movement has always occured when a team has that 1 or 2 "cant miss" or as close to cant miss type prospects/young nhlers that they are building around. That player, per what we've seen and from what the scouting reports say, is not present in the organization.

Here's my point: You have 5 guys 25 or under who have established themselves as NHLers and show upside
Dubinsky, Callahan, Anisimov, Staal, and Del Zotto- I exclude Girardi and Gilroy- both 26 (Gilroy turns 26 next week)

Coming through the pipeline within the next 18-24 months
Stepan, Grachev, Krieder, McDonagh, Mcilraith

Thats 10 guys- can you honestly see a situation where they all play together as Rangers? I cant, that just wont happen- not in todays NHl and it has not happened in so long in the league- plus you could never keep them all together over a long period.

I say trade 1 or 2 with maybe a vet and a pick for a high end forward- preferrably a center.
You get the guy you need to play with Gabs, and you still would have 8 or 9 of these guys to develop and play.
Just because you trade 1 or 2 doesnt mean youre giving up on the kids, youre just turning a pair of unknown commodities into a known commodity.
You would also probably clear a roster spot for 1 or maybe 2 of the others.

mmmrevolver93
07-21-2010, 03:36 PM
The only logical reason to trade away Gabs would be too dump atleast drury and probably rosy too-unfortunately there isn't a trading partner capable of this. I'm not sold on Jack Johnson at all. It would be a major mistake to rid ourselves of gaborik just too make room for kovi.

I agree with you, i want kovy but only if sather can find away to trade away rozy and some other money and keep gaborik. thats the only way it make sense to me..

redwhiteandblue
07-21-2010, 03:37 PM
Trade lundqvist our proven, stud, franchise goaltender who is still in his prime... yea no. And now we are going to trade our star scorer for a guy that could back up hank in two years.. dumb move and it will never happen.

First of all, you recently started posting here. Ask any of these other guys who have been here for more then the last 2 months my feelings on trading Lundqvist. They know how I feel and know that when I have a feeling that I feel I'm right about something I'll stick to my guns. Research the threads if you want, you'll see how I feel. I don't need you to tell me about Lundavist.

I know all about it, I'm anti-trading Lundqvist too, but you shouldn't ever completely close the door on any possibility. Do you even realize who Jon Quick or Jon Bernier are? They are two of the top stud goalie prospects in the whole league and belong to the same franchise making one of them expandable. In comparison, Jack Campbell was this years top goalie in the draft class, Quick and Bernier will have better careers, and easily IMO.

So if I'm to make that trade and bring in one of the two along with another prospect like Schenn there's no reason to not entertain the idea of trading Lundqvist. I'm not saying trade him, I'm saying entertain it. You also seemed to completely ignore that part where I said either trade high on him and get a huge return OR let him age and trade him then, so it's not like I'm calling to run him out of town.

Humor me though... imagine a pool of these players : Anisimov, Stepan, Kreider, Kovalchuk (assuming the Gabs trade/Kovy signing), Dubinsky, Callahan, Grachev, Boogaard, Prust, Schenn, Staal, Girardi, McD, MDZ, JJ, Quick or Bernier and Lundqvist.

Now lets think this were to happen this offseason. With that pool I'm [i]entertaining[/b] trading Lundqvist. Quick has shown he can be an NHL goalie, so what if Lundqvist nets you someone to take Redden and sends back a legit NHL d-man? What if Lundqvist nabs 3 NHL proven players who can turn is into a legit cup contender? What if Lundqvist nabs us a true #1 center to play with Gabs and our rising young wingers? In all this hypothetical dream world, if we were in that situation and Lundqvist was pulling in one of those deals, he's being dealt.

Do we trade Lundqvist today, though? No, not even entertaining deals. Do we trade Lundqvist if we get Bernier+ from LA? No, maybe down the road you consider it but certainly not right away. We deal with LA and land JJ + Schenn, do we trade Lundqvist? No, there would be no points in even removing the 'untradeable' tag.

No player outside of two guys, #87 and #8, are untradable. There are a ton of guys though, like Lundqvist, who are only traded in the most certain of stipulations and situations.

nyr1980
07-21-2010, 03:39 PM
I agree with you, i want kovy but only if sather can find away to trade away rozy and some other money and keep gaborik. thats the only way it make sense to me..

Yeah, I dont know that Id want one without the other- and Jack Johnson has been a minus player his entire career. Not exactly the mark of a great defensman

fingerbang
07-21-2010, 03:40 PM
I personally don't think Gabs is better than Kovi. With that said I wouldn't trade Gabs and hope that Kovi signs with us, unless we are absolutely sure that Kovi is signing with us and we can still pull off the Anaheim deal. The only reason is Jack Johnson replaces the loss of Staal, and we get a much better offense. Since it would be a huge gamble, Id stick with Gabs, cause if we send Gabs packing and only get Kovi we are in the same place we were last season.

I really don't think johnson is nearly as good as staal. I know many of the posters here do not believe in +/- but jack's already -57 -he had another bad +/- last year as well. Staal was +11 last season which is incredibly impressive when you consider that he consistantly played against top lines-on a mediocre club. Kovi does not improve our offense as much as people think. He'll come in and score his goals but he will not make the players around him better (he hasn't in the past), gaborik does.

redwhiteandblue
07-21-2010, 03:45 PM
I agree with your points, definitely a tough decision.

I cant call what the rangers are doing with the kids as a youth movement though. Yes they have played some younger kids lately and with good results and there is a nice pipeline of talent ready or close to ready to making the jump. But to me, a true youth movement has always occured when a team has that 1 or 2 "cant miss" or as close to cant miss type prospects/young nhlers that they are building around. That player, per what we've seen and from what the scouting reports say, is not present in the organization.

Here's my point: You have 5 guys 25 or under who have established themselves as NHLers and show upside
Dubinsky, Callahan, Anisimov, Staal, and Del Zotto- I exclude Girardi and Gilroy- both 26 (Gilroy turns 26 next week)

Coming through the pipeline within the next 18-24 months
Stepan, Grachev, Krieder, McDonagh, Mcilraith

Thats 10 guys- can you honestly see a situation where they all play together as Rangers? I cant, that just wont happen- not in todays NHl and it has not happened in so long in the league- plus you could never keep them all together over a long period.

I say trade 1 or 2 with maybe a vet and a pick for a high end forward- preferrably a center.
You get the guy you need to play with Gabs, and you still would have 8 or 9 of these guys to develop and play.
Just because you trade 1 or 2 doesnt mean youre giving up on the kids, youre just turning a pair of unknown commodities into a known commodity.
You would also probably clear a roster spot for 1 or maybe 2 of the others.

Well we're in a youth movement as far as a team like the Rangers will ever be. I can't really see this franchise where we are now ever selling off all assets and gearing up for 3-5 years of playoff oblivion for a pay off 7 years later. So considering that and the amount of talent we have and how deep that talent is I would say we're as close to a youth movement as this franchise will get.

That said, I'll kind of agree on there being no Crosby or OV to build around. I do think MDZ is that guy, he had the top end talent like these guys the only reason we had the opportunity to nab him was some scouts question of his maturity and ability to improve, what I saw in his first year though gives me no worries. I think he'll be in the first class of D of kids his age, so there's someone to build the D around. Along with Marc Staal who is still only 23. :speechless:

Then there's the forwards. I personally have this feeling that Kreider develops into an All Star, not Superstar but All Star. Good enough to build around especially considering our depth. We have TONS of talent in the prospect pool, very deep, and a good few of those guys hold the potential to be very good top 6 guys. So with a group as big as we do (Kreider, Stepan, Grachev, Dubinsky, Cally, Byers, Werek, MZA, MDZ, McD, McIlrath, Pashnin off the top of my head) I do have faith at least 2 of those will turn out to be stars to lead this team.

Also, I do very much see a lot of these guys playing for the Rangers together. A couple of faces will come up this year. In the next few years we'll start letting guys go (Prospal, Avery, Christensen, Roszy, Redden, Gilroy) and slowly blending these guys in when their time is due.

nyr1980
07-21-2010, 03:46 PM
I really don't think johnson is nearly as good as staal. I know many of the posters here do not believe in +/- but jack's already -57 -he had another bad +/- last year as well. Staal was +11 last season which is incredibly impressive when you consider that he consistantly played against top lines-on a mediocre club. Kovi does not improve our offense as much as people think. He'll come in and score his goals but he will not make the players around him better (he hasn't in the past), gaborik does.

Plus minus is a solid stat- its not an end all be all stat and it doesnt tell you everything- but by in large, its a pretty good barometer and provided that you look at the player, his team, and who he sees ice time with, it can usually give you an accurate read on the player.

With Jack Johnson, this year at minus 15 on a team that was top ten in both goals for and goals against, playing the second most minutes a night- so he was seeing the ice with his teams best players most of the time should indicate the fact that there are some holes in his game and hes not as great as hes made out to be. At least not yet- still only 23.

nyr1980
07-21-2010, 03:53 PM
Well we're in a youth movement as far as a team like the Rangers will ever be. I can't really see this franchise where we are now ever selling off all assets and gearing up for 3-5 years of playoff oblivion for a pay off 7 years later. So considering that and the amount of talent we have and how deep that talent is I would say we're as close to a youth movement as this franchise will get.

That said, I'll kind of agree on there being no Crosby or OV to build around. I do think MDZ is that guy, he had the top end talent like these guys the only reason we had the opportunity to nab him was some scouts question of his maturity and ability to improve, what I saw in his first year though gives me no worries. I think he'll be in the first class of D of kids his age, so there's someone to build the D around. Along with Marc Staal who is still only 23. :speechless:

Then there's the forwards. I personally have this feeling that Kreider develops into an All Star, not Superstar but All Star. Good enough to build around especially considering our depth. We have TONS of talent in the prospect pool, very deep, and a good few of those guys hold the potential to be very good top 6 guys. So with a group as big as we do (Kreider, Stepan, Grachev, Dubinsky, Cally, Byers, Werek, MZA, MDZ, McD, McIlrath, Pashnin off the top of my head) I do have faith at least 2 of those will turn out to be stars to lead this team.

Also, I do very much see a lot of these guys playing for the Rangers together. A couple of faces will come up this year. In the next few years we'll start letting guys go (Prospal, Avery, Christensen, Roszy, Redden, Gilroy) and slowly blending these guys in when their time is due.


Youre right on about MDZ- he'll be great. Also about this being as far as we go with the youth. They'll never torch the barn to kill the rats and completely rebuild- we had our shot at that 10 years ago when it made sense and we didnt do it.

I just think you can trade 1 or 2, get another top forward and still play the youth.
You cna have youre cake and eat it too.

Isca92
07-21-2010, 03:53 PM
Kovi's offensive output is the same as Gabby's with a much better injury history. Saying he doesn't make people better is like saying that hes selfish, thats just talking bad about him cause we don't see us landing him. Kovi's is always talked about his goal scoring ability, but he has 34 less assist over his career than goals. The biggest spread in goals assists was in 1 season 17 half of the difference. If you average out the difference over his other 7 years then thats a difference of 2.5 assist a year, to his 40+ goals.

nyr1980
07-21-2010, 03:58 PM
Kovi's offensive output is the same as Gabby's with a much better injury history. Saying he doesn't make people better is like saying that hes selfish, thats just talking bad about him cause we don't see us landing him. Kovi's is always talked about his goal scoring ability, but he has 34 less assist over his career than goals. The biggest spread in goals assists was in 1 season 17 half of the difference. If you average out the difference over his other 7 years then thats a difference of 2.5 assist a year, to his 40+ goals.

Who cares about that- if youre paying this guy, youre paying him to score goals. When a guy scores a lot, it does open the ice up and create scoring chances for others. Even if hes not making the pass or play himself, the fact that hes out there or the puck is on his stick creates goals across the board.

Isca92
07-21-2010, 04:02 PM
NYR, I agree, Im saying that IF the proposed deal with Gabs and the proposed deal with Anaheim, would you do both and land Kovi. Im arguing that he will score goals and hes not this no heart selfish player that most make him out to be. IMO 2 people showed up for the Devils last year in the playoffs, Parisi and Kovi.

nyr1980
07-21-2010, 04:10 PM
NYR, I agree, Im saying that IF the proposed deal with Gabs and the proposed deal with Anaheim, would you do both and land Kovi. Im arguing that he will score goals and hes not this no heart selfish player that most make him out to be. IMO 2 people showed up for the Devils last year in the playoffs, Parisi and Kovi.

Id probably do those deals with LA and Anaheim, provided I all but knew I d be signing Kovy.

Ive never really cared about the "selfish, no heart player" thing as long is it does not become some ridiculous scandal all out in the media and the guy is total cancer(see Terrell Owens etc.)

As for a guy being selfish, great players want the ball/puck etc. often and at crunch time= its part of what makes them great.

Years ago I was very friendly with a guy who was a very close friend of former Knick Greg Anthony. Anthony became pretty friendly with Michael Jordan over his career and I got to hang out with Greg Anthony a bunch of times. He always said that Jordan always wanted the ball and as much as he made teammates better, it was all about Mike in the end and that everytime he had to give up the ball it was like a dagger through his heart- but all th guy did was win

fingerbang
07-21-2010, 04:14 PM
Who cares about that- if youre paying this guy, youre paying him to score goals. When a guy scores a lot, it does open the ice up and create scoring chances for others. Even if hes not making the pass or play himself, the fact that hes out there or the puck is on his stick creates goals across the board.

He's a perimeter shooter. He does not get the puck in deep and grind along the boards like other players. Assists are a poor indicator of "making players better". Great players work to create chances they don't just make the assist. You can help a teamate score a goal and not necessarily pick up the assist. I know we wouldn't be paying him to be a "grinder" but that doesn't mean that he still wouldn't have to. Crosby's one of the strongest players in the league when it comes to digging out pucks along the boards. This is why he wins and it is also why his line always gets the better of the opposing teams line. Where was kovi when we played him in the playoffs a few years back? Good succesful playoff performers work and grind in clutch situations. I believe hartnell was the best player on the ice for philly in the finals-he contributed far more than just point production.

SLY WILLIAMS
07-21-2010, 04:18 PM
I personally don't think Gabs is better than Kovi. With that said I wouldn't trade Gabs and hope that Kovi signs with us, unless we are absolutely sure that Kovi is signing with us and we can still pull off the Anaheim deal. The only reason is Jack Johnson replaces the loss of Staal, and we get a much better offense. Since it would be a huge gamble, Id stick with Gabs, cause if we send Gabs packing and only get Kovi we are in the same place we were last season.

If the salaries were equal I'd consider Kovy over Gabs. I like Gabs a lot. I see Gabs as a top 20 player but I see Kovy as a top 10 player. My fear is that Gabs may have just had his career year. He will be 29 next season. While Kovy is only a year younger it pretty much is automatic that Kovy scores 40-50 goals a year. Gabs has only scored 40 goals (42) twice in his career.

Still I'd rather have Kovy with Gabs than Kovy instead of Gabs. :)

commonsense12
07-21-2010, 04:21 PM
first mmmrevolver93, unfortunately there are like 2 or 3 people on this forum that think its a good idea to trade Henrik.....LOL omg ahhh i cant get over how funny that is. Yes i agree it is simply stupid to even think it unless you are getting crazy package deal in the process. That crazy package is not coming so it shouldnt even be a thought. IF this guy had a top defense in front of him, we are one of the top seeds in this league.

Now onto the trades. Trading Gabs and Staal and replacing them with Kovie and Johnson makes no sense. First Johnson is a restricted FA next year, so we would be going through the same thing next year. Plus Kovie doesnt play Defense and he would prob have a higher cap number then Gabs for not much more production. Yeah no thanks PASS. Only way it makes sense is if we ditched a horrible contract in the process and thats not happening.

Isca92
07-21-2010, 04:34 PM
NYR, the funny thing about TO, is from what I hear from a guy that I know is he is not a bad person at all. The person is a recently retired NFL player, that I talk to on a regular basis and tells me his opinions that sometimes differ from what he says on the when he does some radio or broadcasting. His reasonings are very solid on why TO, isn't liked, but I dont' want to get off topic.

As for Kovi being soft, how many big hits does Gabby through a year? Has Kovi not gone after Avery several times in recent years? Each guy has a role, both of their roles are to score goals, theres plenty of people to do the grind work.

Sly, Im not so afraid of last year being a career year for Gabby but Im more worried about his injury proneness. I think him and Gagne, and Ricky D were all molded from the same piece of glass. Yes anyone can get hurt but looking at history Kovi has alot better history. Kovi was eligible for 82 less regular season games then Gabs and played 43 more games and has 77 more goals and 42 more assist. Of course I'd rather have both but I still think Kovi is better. Just think if we would not have signed Gabs last year and we would have finished in the bottom, could have drafted Hall or Seguin and then signed Kovi this year.

nyr1980
07-21-2010, 04:36 PM
He's a perimeter shooter. He does not get the puck in deep and grind along the boards like other players. Assists are a poor indicator of "making players better". Great players work to create chances they don't just make the assist. You can help a teamate score a goal and not necessarily pick up the assist. I know we wouldn't be paying him to be a "grinder" but that doesn't mean that he still wouldn't have to. Crosby's one of the strongest players in the league when it comes to digging out pucks along the boards. This is why he wins and it is also why his line always gets the better of the opposing teams line. Where was kovi when we played him in the playoffs a few years back? Good succesful playoff performers work and grind in clutch situations. I believe hartnell was the best player on the ice for philly in the finals-he contributed far more than just point production.

The only point Im making is that youre paying him to score- and when a guy scores a lot, it does help the rest of your offense. Yes hes a shooter, and great shooters create space in the offensive zone. Thats his game. I absolutely agree though that in order for him to really be a guy who could take a team to the next level, he should use his size and strength and get his hands dirty a little more

SLY WILLIAMS
07-21-2010, 04:38 PM
Sly, Im not so afraid of last year being a career year for Gabby but Im more worried about his injury proneness.

Past and future injuries can play a big role in whether or not Gabs will have many years above what he did last season. :)

nyr1980
07-21-2010, 04:44 PM
NYR, the funny thing about TO, is from what I hear from a guy that I know is he is not a bad person at all. The person is a recently retired NFL player, that I talk to on a regular basis and tells me his opinions that sometimes differ from what he says on the when he does some radio or broadcasting. His reasonings are very solid on why TO, isn't liked, but I dont' want to get off topic.

As for Kovi being soft, how many big hits does Gabby through a year? Has Kovi not gone after Avery several times in recent years? Each guy has a role, both of their roles are to score goals, theres plenty of people to do the grind work.

Sly, Im not so afraid of last year being a career year for Gabby but Im more worried about his injury proneness. I think him and Gagne, and Ricky D were all molded from the same piece of glass. Yes anyone can get hurt but looking at history Kovi has alot better history. Kovi was eligible for 82 less regular season games then Gabs and played 43 more games and has 77 more goals and 42 more assist. Of course I'd rather have both but I still think Kovi is better. Just think if we would not have signed Gabs last year and we would have finished in the bottom, could have drafted Hall or Seguin and then signed Kovi this year.

I dont neccessarily think Kovy is "soft"- his game is to shoot the puck and score- hes had to be the focal point of an offense pretty much sinc ehe came into the league- a guy in that role needs to score first and all else has to be secondary. And you are right- no one will confuse Gaborik with Jeff Beukeboom. Kovy though is more or less the same size as Ovechkin. Just like to see him use his size more

fingerbang
07-21-2010, 04:50 PM
Quote Isca92 "As for Kovi being soft, how many big hits does Gabby through a year? Has Kovi not gone after Avery several times in recent years? Each guy has a role, both of their roles are to score goals, theres plenty of people to do the grind work."

The grinders on our 3rd and 4th lines aren't helping the top line keep the puck in the offensive end. Puck posession leads to more scoring chances. All the red wings scorers (zetterberg, datsyk, franzen) work the boards as well as anyone in the league. They play a textbook style and benefit from it. If your going to be paid 9 or 10 million a year you better do more than fulfill your role as a shooter.

Isca92
07-21-2010, 04:54 PM
Sly, I see what your saying. I think hes still got some left in him, but how many games is a season is the question that will be asked after every season going into the next. He's still got a great shot.

NYR, I agree he can be alittle more physical but at the same point you don't want him to get recluse like OV is. Plus if you put Cally with Kovi then you don't need Kovi to throw hits cause Cally will more then cover Kovi's half.

Isca92
07-21-2010, 05:02 PM
Fingerbang, Zetterberg had 1 season where he broke 40 and Datsyuk has never scored more then 32. Franzen is like Buff, hell pump in his goals here and there in the regular season but come playoff time thats another story. Before we get into the playoff performance argument look what gabs has done in the playoffs since the lock out before going into that argument. So there not the same level of goal scorers that Kovy is. Vinny Lacavaleir is another player whos name has come up and he gets paid 10 for quiet some time and he hasn't broke 30 in the last 2 seasons.

fingerbang
07-21-2010, 05:09 PM
Fingerbang, Zetterberg had 1 season where he broke 40 and Datsyuk has never scored more then 32. Franzen is like Buff, hell pump in his goals here and there in the regular season but come playoff time thats another story. Before we get into the playoff performance argument look what gabs has done in the playoffs since the lock out before going into that argument. So there not the same level of goal scorers that Kovy is. Vinny Lacavaleir is another player whos name has come up and he gets paid 10 for quiet some time and he hasn't broke 30 in the last 2 seasons.

I didn't say they were on the same level. However, they do score a lot of goals. I would take zetterberg or datsyuk over kovi in a heartbeat. Lacavalier is an example of how a big contract can turn sour.

Isca92
07-21-2010, 05:15 PM
Finger, I see what your saying and Id take either one of them first as well. Kovi gets more money cause he puts the puck in the net more then they do. They still get a higher contract because of their defensive responsibilities, while still being an offensive threat.

rocowear21
07-21-2010, 05:21 PM
ALso going back to the whole Kovi not digging for the puck thing. If I am paying this guy that kind of money. I want him in the slot shooting away. Let the other 45 grinders on this team do the digging. If we added Kovi to our team which i dont see happening then I put him with Callahan and Drury. Let them do the digging while kovi sits in the slot and rips shots all day long.

rocowear21
07-21-2010, 06:38 PM
lol all the deleted posts. Sorry sly making you do more then you have to lol. Anyway I have been thinking of the situation. Really we just need to keep gabs, involve staal and a contract like brashear in a deal for a top center. Waive redden and bring in a player like frolov. We have the a abundance amount of D prospects. I can bite the bullet with staal leaving if we have to. I would offer Dubi first, have frolov come in and play 2nd line wing with AA. I believe that would be 1 sexy line.

Lostnearhell
07-21-2010, 06:45 PM
Yet again STOP LISTENING TO EKLUND:

the fan 590 reported right now that Ilya is not a ufa... everyone has 5 days to appeal tw ruling (id assume 5 business days). if the nhlpa goes to bat for kovi kovi will be in a state of flux since he will then be a client of the nhlpa and he wont be able to sign anywhere until the ruling is done... the devils can also argue that thr contract is valid... for both of these kovi has to agree to accept the case... like he can decline the nhlpa's assistance or the devils.. if he does that then he is a ufa.... all this according to the 12:00 segment of the fan 590

bsi
07-21-2010, 06:53 PM
We're not trading Gaborik..that's just something Eklund says to get more hits to his site. Have you ever noticed that almost every new post he puts up has something to do with the Rangers, yet nothing happens. He's looking for hits and we're giving them to him. I also think it's bad business to sign a guy, he has a great year and then trade him off the next, there's not many players gonna want to sign here at that rate. This is just another rotten banana peal at the top of Eklunds pile of GARBAGE!

bsi
07-21-2010, 06:55 PM
I didn't say they were on the same level. However, they do score a lot of goals. I would take zetterberg or datsyuk over kovi in a heartbeat. Lacavalier is an example of how a big contract can turn sour.

The only guys I wouldn't take Datsyuk over are Crosby and Ovechkin.

Lostnearhell
07-21-2010, 06:57 PM
If an SPC or an Offer Sheet is rejected: (A) because it results in
the signing Club exceeding the Upper Limit, or (B) because it does
not comply with the Maximum Player Salary or (C) because it is or
involves a Circumvention of either the Club's Upper Limit or the
Maximum Player Salary, and:
(x) if the NHLPA does not timely dispute and refer to the
Arbitrator such rejection in the manner set forth in Section 11.5(g) above, then
immediately upon the expiration of the time period within which the NHLPA may
dispute and refer to the Arbitrator such rejection, the SPC or Offer Sheet, as the
case may be, will be deemed null and void ab initio (i.e., the Player's Free Agency
and/or contractual status shall revert to the status he held prior to signing his SPC
or Offer Sheet, as the case may be), and the Player shall not be entitled to any of
the rights or benefits provided for under the rejected SPC or Offer Sheet, as the
case may be

if anyone is interested http://www.nhl.com/cba/2005-CBA.pdf I know its huge but its pretty interesting the way stuff is worded

Isca92
07-21-2010, 07:46 PM
nice post

Lostnearhell
07-21-2010, 09:01 PM
This will get very interesting...

Also, if Kovy agrees to an arbitration (its his right to decline the NHLPA's help) then he will not be a UFA until its all over which could last weeks. So who knows what will happy just stop listening to Eklund a "CEO" who doesn't even know how things work.

nyr1980
07-21-2010, 09:14 PM
Kovy will drag- he went to Jersey because of the money and there is no way he is not going to fight to the last to keep it. Itll be late August before this ends.

Isca92
07-21-2010, 09:53 PM
Heres a theory me and some guys at work were tossing around all hockey fans and most players. What if it comes down to this. As Ive stated before I don't think Lou wants him for the cap hit that he should require, sure a 6 million cap hit anyone would be nuts to say no to Kovi on their team for that hit. So say they rewrite the deal to a 12 year 100 million dollar contract is a 8.3 hit (to me thats fair), now he gets the same amount of money and its a lot more realist of a deal. What happens if Lou says to Vanderbeek no I don't want him at that price, What happens then. Does Vanderbeek Fire Lou or does Lou bend to Vanderbeek. Lou has always been a my way kind of GM, IMO it would be interesting to see who wins that one, what do you guys think.

NYR if he drags it on til the end of August maybe he can stretch it to camp so we can send down redden and then fit him, Id wait for that. But again I don't see him not staying in NJ but you never know cause I didn't expect any of this stuff to happen, starting with the initial trade to NJ.

Al Trautwig
07-21-2010, 10:06 PM
Blog coming up... Getting interesting. More and more people telling me the Rangers trading Gaborik to LA and sign Kovalchuk is VERY real.
40 minutes ago via Osfoora HD

per eklund

Al Trautwig
07-21-2010, 10:06 PM
*his twitter might I add

nyr1980
07-21-2010, 10:09 PM
Heres a theory me and some guys at work were tossing around all hockey fans and most players. What if it comes down to this. As Ive stated before I don't think Lou wants him for the cap hit that he should require, sure a 6 million cap hit anyone would be nuts to say no to Kovi on their team for that hit. So say they rewrite the deal to a 12 year 100 million dollar contract is a 8.3 hit (to me thats fair), now he gets the same amount of money and its a lot more realist of a deal. What happens if Lou says to Vanderbeek no I don't want him at that price, What happens then. Does Vanderbeek Fire Lou or does Lou bend to Vanderbeek. Lou has always been a my way kind of GM, IMO it would be interesting to see who wins that one, what do you guys think.

NYR if he drags it on til the end of August maybe he can stretch it to camp so we can send down redden and then fit him, Id wait for that. But again I don't see him not staying in NJ but you never know cause I didn't expect any of this stuff to happen, starting with the initial trade to NJ.

Interesting theory. 8.3 mil is very much fair market value for him. Obviously both Lamoriello and Vanderbeek would like him on the cheap as far as the cap hit is concerned, but I think they'll take him at 8.3 and find a way. How bad does Ralstons contract look for them now? I dont see there being some big thing within their organization causing some big blow up though. Id be shocked if they parted company with Ilya after all of this. They'll find a way.

nyr1980
07-21-2010, 10:14 PM
Gaborik really gonna waive his ntc?

ElementCo27
07-21-2010, 10:25 PM
No, it would be idiotic and just a swap of star players. I would much rather have Gaborik than Kovy and if this all happens I will be very disappointed with Sather. It would just ruin the relationship with players. I can name 2 players that already wouldn't want Kovy on the team and that's Avery and Roszival. It would be a magnifying version of bringing in Brashear last year after elbowing Betts. Kovy pulled one of those on Rozy two years ago I think and injured him for a while. Avery doesn't like him either because you see what happens when they play together. Getting Kovy is now pretty much a poison to this team and it would be absolutely reckless to trade Gaborik just to bring him here. He can go to the rock and crumble that organization for all I care.

dashripdot
07-21-2010, 10:40 PM
Yet again STOP LISTENING TO EKLUND:

the fan 590 reported right now that Ilya is not a ufa... everyone has 5 days to appeal tw ruling (id assume 5 business days). if the nhlpa goes to bat for kovi kovi will be in a state of flux since he will then be a client of the nhlpa and he wont be able to sign anywhere until the ruling is done... the devils can also argue that thr contract is valid... for both of these kovi has to agree to accept the case... like he can decline the nhlpa's assistance or the devils.. if he does that then he is a ufa.... all this according to the 12:00 segment of the fan 590

Devils can't argue anything. They can only submit a new contract for consideration by the NHL. Only the union can file a grievance within 5 days on behalf of the player, which would lead to arbitration and likely drag out the dispute.

nyr1980
07-21-2010, 10:42 PM
I just dont really see what that deal with LA would actually accomplish. Obviously it would depend on what the full and actual package is, but unless it were an amazing return, Im not in agreement with it. Think we should just forget about Kovy and his high maintenance *** and turn our attention elsewhere.

Isca92
07-21-2010, 10:58 PM
I don't think LA would go for it but then I think about it like this and say maybe. They wanted Gabs originally but failed. If there failing on Kovi and failed on Gagne, atleast they get one player, to save some face atleast and get a solid scorer in return. This would bring the rivalry to a whole different level, it would be great.

Lostnearhell
07-21-2010, 11:05 PM
They would never trade him Gaborik because this could drag on for awhile. If this goes for weeks, do you think LA is just going to sit around or the Rangers are going to let an offer sheet go to Stall? Be real...Eklund is under the stupid impression Kovy is a UFA, he is not, its right in the CBA. He is the worst person in the history of hockey to listen to. Gaborik is going nowhere, lets be real. He has become a liked and loved player in NY. LA loves their young guys or they would have made a mega offer to Kovy.

Eklund also said his source close to LA said its 98% he goes there when it was really 0% because of the Kings future Cap issues with young talent.

Also, Kovy would never want to play with Avery, its a known hate, not rivalry, hate. It would never work. Its possible they offered a 1-2 year deal to him but they won't offer a long term contract and Gaborik isn't going anywhere...

You need to realize how absurd Eklund is, he makes stuff up off of anything he might here from a friend, aka source, and posts it to get hits on his site.

beast023
07-21-2010, 11:18 PM
OK were gunna trade a guy that accounted for like 35% of the teams goals to sign a guy that had 1 less goal than he did when all we have to do is send redden to the minors to accumulate an equivalent amount of cap space??? lets see kovi and gaborik? or kovi and johnson? cannot believe there is any debate about this issue if the front office is "considering all possibilities to improve the club"... i could understand if this was the last resort it would be a decent option, but there are absolutely other alternative options to clear cap space... trading your best player should be a last resort in this situation if u decide u absolutely need kovy on ur team

beast023
07-21-2010, 11:22 PM
not to mention sending redden to hartford wouldnt be a total loss... he does have experience being a good nhl player so pair him up with our best defensive prospect in hartford nd im sure the kid gets something out of it

Isca92
07-21-2010, 11:25 PM
Sather has already said he will match an offer sheet if Staal receives one. As for Eklund, he is far from the only person to say that Kovi was originally going to LA. I don't know how many people actually take every word that Eklund says as going to happen, if they do then they don't understand what he is all about. He puts out everything he hears to stir up conversation. Plenty of GM's use media outlets to get things accomplished and plenty of times it doesn't come to fruition. Gives us something to talk about for the months.

I constantly say I don't think Kovi is signing besides NJ. I said no way the first contract was going to get rejected. As for the Kovi Avery hate relationship, 100 million dollars sure can change the past. Torts hates Avery, yet Sather claimed him of waivers after Torts has hired. So you never know is all I'm saying.

Lostnearhell
07-21-2010, 11:29 PM
He isn't going to go to a rival after that whole show they put on...do you honestly think a seasoned GM (arguably the best in the NHL) and a seasoned agent don't have a back up plan for this? Do you really think Kovy is in utter shock right now? Come on. It all starts with one "tweet" and they all retweet it and say they are hearing it from many places.

Eklund still goes get that Kovy isn't a UFA

beast023
07-21-2010, 11:31 PM
sean avery is hated by every one thats not wearing the same jersey he is... thats hes role on the team to make u hate playing him a good way to avoid playing him is playing on his team

Isca92
07-21-2010, 11:33 PM
I bet if the Rangers try to send Redden to the minors since he has 6 years left, the PA will try to demand a buyout of him, especially since the Kovi contract was circumventing the Cap, then so is sending a player with 6 years left on his contract to the minors.

beast023
07-21-2010, 11:45 PM
he has 4 years left... he signed a six year deal

Isca92
07-21-2010, 11:59 PM
yeah my bad but still 4 years and 23 million. Prospal was bought out with 3 years 10.5 mill left. I just cant see the NHL saying the Devils can't go around the cap neither but the Rangers can.

rocowear21
07-22-2010, 01:43 AM
Actually they cant say anything about sending redden to the minors. Since he doesnt have a no movement clause and would still make all that money its all legit. Many other teams would do it as well if they could afford it. The rangers are just lucky that we have a owner that can afford it. They cant say anything about it.

dashripdot
07-22-2010, 08:26 AM
Heres a theory me and some guys at work were tossing around all hockey fans and most players. What if it comes down to this. As Ive stated before I don't think Lou wants him for the cap hit that he should require, sure a 6 million cap hit anyone would be nuts to say no to Kovi on their team for that hit. So say they rewrite the deal to a 12 year 100 million dollar contract is a 8.3 hit (to me thats fair), now he gets the same amount of money and its a lot more realist of a deal. What happens if Lou says to Vanderbeek no I don't want him at that price, What happens then. Does Vanderbeek Fire Lou or does Lou bend to Vanderbeek. Lou has always been a my way kind of GM, IMO it would be interesting to see who wins that one, what do you guys think.

NYR if he drags it on til the end of August maybe he can stretch it to camp so we can send down redden and then fit him, Id wait for that. But again I don't see him not staying in NJ but you never know cause I didn't expect any of this stuff to happen, starting with the initial trade to NJ.

Everyone involved will want to submit a new contract for league approval for a couple of reasons: [1] It usually takes a long time for these two parties to even agree on an Arbitrator; [2] the penalties provided by the CBA if a System Arbitrator determines that anyone involved attempted to circumvent the cap include the Arbitrator fining the player, the commissioner fining the team, penalizing it by taking away draft picks, suspending the player, suspending the agent, and/or suspending a club employee.

Kinda funny that Lamoriello, who helped negotiate the CBA and dislikes the union, needs the union to grieve this issue for him (if he wants his employer to be happy about the outcome -- I know he, personally, doesn't want the deal) and might get bit in backside by CBA penalties if the Arbitrator doesn't uphold the contract.

mervinout
07-22-2010, 10:14 AM
Gabs and Kovi both need guys to get them the puck to be mega scorers, however if its about creating their own goal by themselve then Kovi isn't a better option then Gabs

liltedspop
07-22-2010, 10:24 AM
Gabs and Kovi both need guys to get them the puck to be mega scorers, however if its about creating their own goal by themselve then Kovi isn't a better option then Gabs

Very true, Gaborik would possibly be the elite point getter in the game if he had an elite center feeding him the puck.

996twint
07-22-2010, 10:56 AM
He isn't going to go to a rival after that whole show they put on...do you honestly think a seasoned GM (arguably the best in the NHL) and a seasoned agent don't have a back up plan for this? Do you really think Kovy is in utter shock right now? Come on. It all starts with one "tweet" and they all retweet it and say they are hearing it from many places.

Eklund still goes get that Kovy isn't a UFA

There is a chance that if Kovy chooses to have the union take it to arbitration that it drags out for a month or so. If the arbitrator rules in the league's favor, Kovy won't have as many options available as he does now. The reason being is that a lot of teams still haven't made their major moves yet and have cap room. If he waits until the hearing decision he might have to a) take a pay cut, b) go to a team that isn't his first choice, or c) sign a short term deal.