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View Full Version : Matt Barnes to Toronto is now unlikely: "Major Miscalculation" of team funds



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07-20-2010, 08:10 AM
The potential sign-and-trade deal that would send Matt Barnes to Toronto is now "dead," according to a league source.
"The sign and trade (scenario) is dead," the source was quoted as saying, as neither Toronto, or the Magic have the money available to make the deal. It sounds like there was a serious "miscalculation" in the talks, and while it's not certain that he won't be joining the Raptors, it does sound unlikely to happen. Which is unfortunate, since Barnes already announced the deal on Twitter.

Rotoworld

http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA

JordansBulls
07-20-2010, 08:11 AM
Ridiculous.

DaoudS
07-20-2010, 08:16 AM
Toronto has money, it is just in the TPE lol. A big time fail by the Toronto management the the agent of Matt Barnes if this deal doesn't go through.

ATX
07-20-2010, 08:34 AM
That's just downright embarrassing for Toronto.

NBA-GMaster
07-20-2010, 08:41 AM
So is he going to Cavs now with the same offered money..

DaoudS
07-20-2010, 08:49 AM
So is he going to Cavs now with the same offered money..

Nothing is for certain. Perhaps they re-work the contract to make it a 2 year deal with the third year being non-guaranteed or a team option.

D-Train#35
07-20-2010, 08:52 AM
The problem isn't Toronto, its that the Magic don't have enough money to sign him in order to trade him.. I think..

-Kobe24-TJ19-
07-20-2010, 08:52 AM
lmao

MaHaRaJaH
07-20-2010, 08:55 AM
Toronto has money, it is just in the TPE lol. A big time fail by the Toronto management the the agent of Matt Barnes if this deal doesn't go through.

:sigh:

arkanian215
07-20-2010, 08:55 AM
The problem isn't Toronto, its that the Magic don't have enough money to sign him in order to trade him.. I think..

Right. They gave Duhon a large portion of their MLE and that's the only thing that was close enough to the amount being offered by Toronto. They didn't have Barnes's bird rights.

MaHaRaJaH
07-20-2010, 08:56 AM
That's just downright embarrassing for Toronto.

how?

ManRam
07-20-2010, 09:03 AM
Ridiculous.

It's not ridiculous if you think about it. I talked about it last night in the Magic forum. Marc Stein is the one who mentioned a S&T, and he did so by pure speculation. The fact is...

A) Orlando can't sign Barnes for more than $1.9M
B) Toronto already used up their MLE on Kleiza, so they also can't sign him for the amount of money Barnes was supposedly going to get. They could trade for him with the TPE, but again, Orlando can't sign him for that amount of money (2 years 9 million or whatever).

I don't get how there could have been such an obvious omission to the blatant lack of money either team had to spend. I mean, I picked up on it, and I'm just a 21 year old kid. Very confusing. There really is no way that Barnes can end up in either place for more than $1.9M.

pebloemer
07-20-2010, 09:04 AM
Toronto has money, it is just in the TPE lol. A big time fail by the Toronto management the the agent of Matt Barnes if this deal doesn't go through.

I agree. Colangelo should be fully aware that Orlando does not have his bird rights as league rules specify. If they seek out a player, they can't have this oversight. As should Otis Smith for that matter, but it isn't him that loses out if this can't go through.

arkanian215
07-20-2010, 09:04 AM
how?

They're professionals. They're supposed to know how to calculate cap and know what teams can and can't offer players. It's not like the CBA was drawn up yesterday. I would've understood if the CBA was new and folks didn't really understand it but it's been around for 10 years now.

The_905
07-20-2010, 09:06 AM
That's just downright embarrassing for Toronto.

Because??? This is all on the magic and the agent, toronto did nothing wrong here. You're oblivious.

ATX
07-20-2010, 09:11 AM
how?

For both Toronto and Orlando for not knowing their own teams cap situation. Is this amateur hour? There are seemingly folks here on PSD with more salary cap knowledge than actual NBA teams.

DaoudS
07-20-2010, 09:22 AM
For both Toronto and Orlando for not knowing their own teams cap situation. Is this amateur hour? There are seemingly folks here on PSD with more salary cap knowledge than actual NBA teams.

lol yeah, it has been a troubling off season.

Iron24th
07-20-2010, 09:24 AM
Raptors fans are very unlucky,first Diaw and Chandler,now Barnes.

pebloemer
07-20-2010, 09:27 AM
Because??? This is all on the magic and the agent, toronto did nothing wrong here. You're oblivious.

If you were the manager of the Toronto Raptor's and you were seeking out Matt Barnes as a free agent and knew that in your own salary cap situation, you would need to facilitate a sign and trade in order to attain his services; would you not due diligence to see if a sign and trade was possible for Orlando? This looks poorly on EVERYONE. Otis Smith should have known, Matt Barnes' agent should have known and Brian Colangelo should have known. I'm not sure how you can omit Colangelo on this...

pebloemer
07-20-2010, 09:28 AM
Raptors fans are very unlucky,first Diaw and Chandler,now Barnes.

Each trade/signing that falls through brings us one step closer to a more exciting "Barnes."

king4day
07-20-2010, 09:39 AM
I'm surprised both parties let it get this far.
I just read that both teams are going to meet again today to try and figure this out.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5393637

ldc62
07-20-2010, 09:44 AM
So why did Matt Barnes write on Twitter like its a done deal...

Ray_R
07-20-2010, 09:45 AM
:facepalm: Toronto. They should of atleast worked it out on NBA 2k10

ldc62
07-20-2010, 09:48 AM
:facepalm: Toronto. They should of atleast worked it out on NBA 2k10

I still don't see why Toronto is blamed.... they didn't officially release news that Barnes was signed. It was Barnes himself who wrote that on Twitter. It's not like Bryan was running up and down on the street telling people this deal is done.

miller74
07-20-2010, 09:54 AM
I still don't see why Toronto is blamed.... they didn't officially release news that Barnes was signed. It was Barnes himself who wrote that on Twitter. It's not like Bryan was running up and down on the street telling people this deal is done.

Blame Canada

Brooklyn Mets
07-20-2010, 09:58 AM
its all Duhons fault hahah

The_905
07-20-2010, 10:06 AM
If you were the manager of the Toronto Raptor's and you were seeking out Matt Barnes as a free agent and knew that in your own salary cap situation, you would need to facilitate a sign and trade in order to attain his services; would you not due diligence to see if a sign and trade was possible for Orlando? This looks poorly on EVERYONE. Otis Smith should have known, Matt Barnes' agent should have known and Brian Colangelo should have known. I'm not sure how you can omit Colangelo on this...

You're missing the whole point..

It was never official so how can you state that BC was oblivious to all this? Your basing everything on Barnes saying he was signing with the raps which his agent must have told him. It's all on the agent no one else.

Ragun
07-20-2010, 10:28 AM
why cant the raps use their TPE in a sign and trade?

JasonJohnHorn
07-20-2010, 10:31 AM
I dont see what the problem is? They said Toronto doesnt have the cap space? Bust they just shed two huge contracts (Turk and Bosh) and as far as I've heard this offseason they havent used their mid-level exception, so even if they are over the cap the 5.5 MLE is more than enough to give Barnes his 9 mil for two seasons.

Am I missing something here? does Amir's contract eat up that much of the cap space? Besides calderon and Barbosa I dunno who is making that much money on this team?

I cant see what the issue is here?

Gibby23
07-20-2010, 10:33 AM
why cant the raps use their TPE in a sign and trade?

They can, but Orlando is over the cap and can only sign barnes to a 1.7 or 1.8 million dollar contract.

Ragun
07-20-2010, 10:34 AM
I dont see what the problem is? They said Toronto doesnt have the cap space? Bust they just shed two huge contracts (Turk and Bosh) and as far as I've heard this offseason they havent used their mid-level exception, so even if they are over the cap the 5.5 MLE is more than enough to give Barnes his 9 mil for two seasons.

Am I missing something here? does Amir's contract eat up that much of the cap space? Besides calderon and Barbosa I dunno who is making that much money on this team?

I cant see what the issue is here?

its not toronto. its orlando. according to other, they dont have enough money to sign him which doesnt make sense because he is THEIR player.

Gibby23
07-20-2010, 10:36 AM
its not toronto. its orlando. according to other, they dont have enough money to sign him which doesnt make sense because he is THEIR player.

He didn't play there long enough for Orlando to have Bird rights. I think it is something like you have to play for a team for 3 years. After 2 years you get early Bird rights and can offer your own player 4 or 5 million. That is what happened with the Lakers and Brown last year, this year they can offer him a bit more, but don't have full bird rights.

HOZ THE KNICK
07-20-2010, 10:47 AM
unprofessional at it's finest.

mjt20mik
07-20-2010, 10:48 AM
unprofessional at it's finest.

Twitter is killing this league.

HOZ THE KNICK
07-20-2010, 10:48 AM
its not toronto. its orlando. according to other, they dont have enough money to sign him which doesnt make sense because he is THEIR player.
player have to be under contract for 3 yrs to have his rights or under the cap to make a sign and trade.

Ragun
07-20-2010, 11:00 AM
He didn't play there long enough for Orlando to have Bird rights. I think it is something like you have to play for a team for 3 years. After 2 years you get early Bird rights and can offer your own player 4 or 5 million. That is what happened with the Lakers and Brown last year, this year they can offer him a bit more, but don't have full bird rights.

thats what i thought...well this sucks for us but whatever.

pebloemer
07-20-2010, 11:02 AM
I dont see what the problem is? They said Toronto doesnt have the cap space? Bust they just shed two huge contracts (Turk and Bosh) and as far as I've heard this offseason they havent used their mid-level exception, so even if they are over the cap the 5.5 MLE is more than enough to give Barnes his 9 mil for two seasons.

Am I missing something here? does Amir's contract eat up that much of the cap space? Besides calderon and Barbosa I dunno who is making that much money on this team?

I cant see what the issue is here?

Toronto is over the cap and used most of the MLE on Kleiza.

pebloemer
07-20-2010, 11:10 AM
You're missing the whole point..

It was never official so how can you state that BC was oblivious to all this? Your basing everything on Barnes saying he was signing with the raps which his agent must have told him. It's all on the agent no one else.

I can state that because the terms agreed by Barnes were 2 years at 4.5 million per. Which is impossible for either team to accomplish. How would Barnes be given those terms if it wasn't agreed upon by Colangelo? Neither team has cpa space or bird rights to offer that contract.

The_905
07-20-2010, 11:11 AM
Like I just said, because his dumbass agent must have told him.. How can you still keep saying BC agreed to anything when nothing was conrete? Give BC the benefit of the doubt on a situation where a player announced his new team without the deal being finalized. The agent obviously jumped the gun and told Barnes the deal was done.

Jays Claw
07-20-2010, 11:24 AM
Unprofessionalism on the part of Matt Barnes, his agent and Otis Smith.

ldc62
07-20-2010, 11:24 AM
Like I just said, because his dumbass agent must have told him.. How can you still keep saying BC agreed to anything when nothing was conrete? Give BC the benefit of the doubt on a situation where a player announced his new team without the deal being finalized. The agent obviously jumped the gun and told Barnes the deal was done.

Exactly. BC didn't say anything. It was Barnes who used Twitter to inform everyone.

Gibby23
07-20-2010, 11:27 AM
Unprofessionalism on the part of Matt Barnes, his agent and Otis Smith.

lol, Otis Smith wasn't the one negotiating the contract with Barns and his agent. That would be BC. When they agreed to a deal, they propably called Otis and he said we can't do that.

Jays Claw
07-20-2010, 11:29 AM
Otis Smith wasn't the one negotiating the contract with Matt Barnes and his agent.

Wasn't Bryan Colangelo working out a sign and trade with the Magic?

pebloemer
07-20-2010, 11:32 AM
Like I just said, because his dumbass agent must have told him.. How can you still keep saying BC agreed to anything when nothing was conrete? Give BC the benefit of the doubt on a situation where a player announced his new team without the deal being finalized. The agent obviously jumped the gun and told Barnes the deal was done.

BC didn't say anything to the public, but in order for Barnes' agent to tell him it is likely, conversations must have taken place. How a dollar figure would leak that is completely impossible is beyond me. I am not so naive to believe that this dollar figure came out of nowhere without the input from Toronto management. If Toronto management is discussing a dollar amount that is impossible under the rules of the CBA and oversight has taken place. Again, everyone looks bad here.

Jays Claw
07-20-2010, 11:38 AM
Are negotiations between the Raptors and Matt Barnes completely dead?

The_905
07-20-2010, 11:48 AM
BC didn't say anything to the public, but in order for Barnes' agent to tell him it is likely, conversations must have taken place. How a dollar figure would leak that is completely impossible is beyond me. I am not so naive to believe that this dollar figure came out of nowhere without the input from Toronto management. If Toronto management is discussing a dollar amount that is impossible under the rules of the CBA and oversight has taken place. Again, everyone looks bad here.

You are making way too many assumptions when it's really easy to see how this situation played out.

Sure BC was talking to Barne's agent and threw some numbers around but that does not mean that he was obvlious to the magics financial situation. They probably made an agreement that if the magic can somehow sign and trade barnes that he would sign that 2 year deal. That's it in black and white. You are reaching right now and assuming way to much and why are you defending an agent?

DaoudS
07-20-2010, 11:48 AM
Are negotiations between the Raptors and Matt Barnes completely dead?

Not according to Michael Grange.

Jays Claw
07-20-2010, 11:51 AM
A source told ESPN that the Magic and Raptors will resume discussing Tuesday. There is still intent of landing Matt Barnes with the Raptors via sign and trade. However, no such deal could be assured as of midnight, raising the possibility that Matt Barnes would have to accept new terms to sign with the Raptors.

Link: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5393637

According to ESPN, the deal is still on life support.

RaiderLakersA's
07-20-2010, 12:25 PM
Barnes miscalculated when he opted out in the first place. Now he's leaping at scraps, realizing that he very well may end up playing for the league minimum simply to support his family this year before the lockout. I hope he finds a job...but he should realize that there are lots of quality free agents out there who are looking for work right now. Get in where you fit in, or else.

pebloemer
07-20-2010, 12:30 PM
You are making way too many assumptions when it's really easy to see how this situation played out.

Sure BC was talking to Barne's agent and threw some numbers around but that does not mean that he was obvlious to the magics financial situation. They probably made an agreement that if the magic can somehow sign and trade barnes that he would sign that 2 year deal. That's it in black and white. You are reaching right now and assuming way to much and why are you defending an agent?

You just said everything I've been saying. So I'm not sure why you are claiming I am making all kinds of assumptions. If BC "probably made an agreement that he would sign that two year deal," would he not be having discussions with Matt Barnes agent about impossible numbers according to CBA regulations? Yes, it is black and white, I'm not sure how this is reaching or assuming anything. And I am trying to present an unbiased opinion that has nothing to do with "who I am defending." Are you?

arkanian215
07-20-2010, 12:38 PM
You are making way too many assumptions when it's really easy to see how this situation played out.

Sure BC was talking to Barne's agent and threw some numbers around but that does not mean that he was obvlious to the magics financial situation. They probably made an agreement that if the magic can somehow sign and trade barnes that he would sign that 2 year deal. That's it in black and white. You are reaching right now and assuming way to much and why are you defending an agent?
You're the one making assumptions now.

They could have just as easily made an agreement on the terms of the contract and failed to mention the cap obstacles. People make mistakes. Why would you assume that BC or whoever drew up the numbers didn't overlook either team's cap situation?

arkanian215
07-20-2010, 12:42 PM
Barnes miscalculated when he opted out in the first place. Now he's leaping at scraps, realizing that he very well may end up playing for the league minimum simply to support his family this year before the lockout. I hope he finds a job...but he should realize that there are lots of quality free agents out there who are looking for work right now. Get in where you fit in, or else.

He left 1.9 mil on the table. The max "offer" was the Raps for far more. Cleveland shouldn't be far behind with their offer. I woudn't consider 2/$10 mil scraps compared to what he opted out of.

Sadds The Gr8
07-20-2010, 12:46 PM
omfg...this is so frustrating. hopefully the deal can be fixed and completed by today.

Jamiecballer
07-20-2010, 12:50 PM
well don't we look silly.

dtmagnet
07-20-2010, 04:36 PM
The only party to announce this deal as official was Matt Barnes himself, I don't get why people are dissing Toronto and Orlando when Barnes is the one who screwed up in announcing a deal that was not done.

zambo4president
07-20-2010, 04:46 PM
Well, this looks bad on all sides :laugh2:

RaiderLakersA's
07-20-2010, 05:15 PM
He left 1.9 mil on the table. The max "offer" was the Raps for far more. Cleveland shouldn't be far behind with their offer. I woudn't consider 2/$10 mil scraps compared to what he opted out of.

Right, but he hasn't signed for 2/$10mm yet, and if Toronto doesn't sign him, he'll be leaving Orlando (one of the more scenic cities in America with no state tax) for Cleveland (not exactly paradise). Sorry, but if it was my decision, I would have stuck with Orlando. Money isn't everything.

ldc62
07-20-2010, 06:59 PM
Right, but he hasn't signed for 2/$10mm yet, and if Toronto doesn't sign him, he'll be leaving Orlando (one of the more scenic cities in America with no state tax) for Cleveland (not exactly paradise). Sorry, but if it was my decision, I would have stuck with Orlando. Money isn't everything.

It is when you could be making double somewhere else

GSW Hoops
07-20-2010, 07:13 PM
Toronto is saving all its money to bring back MIKE JAMES.

NBA-GMaster
07-20-2010, 09:55 PM
The only solution i could think is a sign and trade with denver for kleiza and sign Barnes for the MLE..

DaoudS
07-20-2010, 10:49 PM
Toronto is saving all its money to bring back MIKE JAMES.

20 ppg up here lol

arkanian215
07-20-2010, 11:23 PM
Right, but he hasn't signed for 2/$10mm yet, and if Toronto doesn't sign him, he'll be leaving Orlando (one of the more scenic cities in America with no state tax) for Cleveland (not exactly paradise). Sorry, but if it was my decision, I would have stuck with Orlando. Money isn't everything.

$8/hr or $20/hour doing the same thing.... hmmm.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-21-2010, 12:02 AM
Toronto has money, it is just in the TPE lol. A big time fail by the Toronto management the the agent of Matt Barnes if this deal doesn't go through.

The TPE is just to absorb a players contract. But you can't offer it. It's just that Orlando can only offer $1.9 mil in a S&T.

BronBron06
07-21-2010, 12:24 AM
LoL

Drew Gooden has waaaaaaay better contract than Matt Barnes

Even though Matt Barnes is more versatile than Drew


Too bad Matt Barnes timing is really off

The Raven
07-21-2010, 03:34 PM
Well that way he learn for using twitter and announcing it

RaiderLakersA's
07-21-2010, 04:17 PM
It is when you could be making double somewhere else

Note: I'm a Raiders fan. No way would I advise a player to sign with any of our teams over the last 6-7 years just because he could earn double, especially when the salary doesn't even break him into the upper league salary tier.

No, money isn't everything. :o

dtmagnet
07-21-2010, 04:35 PM
Note: I'm a Raiders fan. No way would I advise a player to sign with any of our teams over the last 6-7 years just because he could earn double, especially when the salary doesn't even break him into the upper league salary tier.

No, money isn't everything. :o

It is for a player who has never gotten a very good payday in the league.

RaiderLakersA's
07-21-2010, 04:40 PM
It is for a player who has never gotten a very good payday in the league.

I know, and we often see players chasing the ducats, believing that they can sacrifice personal happiness for a slightly larger billfold. It works short term.

NBA-GMaster
07-22-2010, 10:55 AM
Since Kleiza has not been officially sign the MLE.. They could sign and trade him from Denver for newly acquired Jones plus 2nd rd pick.. and sign Barnes for MLE..

Bob_at_york
07-22-2010, 10:57 AM
Since Kleiza has not been officially sign the MLE.. They could sign and trade him from Denver for newly acquired Jones plus 2nd rd pick.. and sign Barnes for MLE..

Where did you hear that Kleiza hasn't officially signed for the MLE? :confused:

NBA-GMaster
07-22-2010, 10:59 AM
Where did you hear that Kleiza hasn't officially signed for the MLE? :confused:

Does he?? Did he signed already??