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View Full Version : How many MVP's should Kobe have won?



Avenged
07-18-2010, 08:53 PM
It's no secret we as Laker fans feel Kobe Bryant should definitely have more than 1 MVP since he's been on top of the league for a while now. But bias aside, realistically, how many MVP's should Kobe have right now? or do you guys feel his only one was well deserved?

gerber
07-18-2010, 09:16 PM
84

IDB Josh M
07-18-2010, 09:21 PM
I would say 3. Kobe should have won it the year before and after his MVP years.

lakersfan01
07-18-2010, 09:21 PM
ZERO, but I'm ok with his first and last MVP. and he should have ZERO finals mvp awards!!! Pau Gasol should have 2 finals mvp awards!!! Look at the stats. Anyone else think that's a straight up crime! Commissioner obviously wants to sell Kobe for the NBA. Poor Pau.

Raidaz4Life
07-18-2010, 09:36 PM
I think he should have won it in 05-06 and 06-07 as well because he clearly was the most valuable player in the league, he just had won of the worst supporting casts in history.

Enemey
07-18-2010, 09:37 PM
ZERO, but I'm ok with his first and last MVP. and he should have ZERO finals mvp awards!!! Pau Gasol should have 2 finals mvp awards!!! Look at the stats. Anyone else think that's a straight up crime! Commissioner obviously wants to sell Kobe for the NBA. Poor Pau.

:facepalm:2010 Finals average
Kobe- 28-8-4
Pau- 18-11- So Kobe scored 10 more points and grabbed 3 less rebounds hmmm. Kobe wins

2009 Finals
Kobe - 32-7-5 . Kobe wins
Pau Gasol- 18-10

HouRealCoach
07-18-2010, 09:38 PM
Point out the extra years he should have gotten one please... None of the years that he played with Shaq, Nash was the best player the two years he got it, Dirk should have got it in 2007, Lebron was the best player the last two years, and I think KG wasnt far behind Kobe in 2008

The NBA got it right

Enemey
07-18-2010, 09:39 PM
But on Topic

I think he should have won in 2006, 2008, 2009

iggypop123
07-18-2010, 09:43 PM
dirk and nash have 3 mvps and kobe has 1. kobe has 5 rings and dirk and nash have 0. i dont care

HouRealCoach
07-18-2010, 09:46 PM
I think he should have won it in 05-06 and 06-07 as well because he clearly was the most valuable player in the league, he just had won of the worst supporting casts in history.

In 06, Nash led his team to the 2nd best record in the West without a big man and playing with only 7-8 players a night... Made Diaw, Bell, Barbosa, and Jones ALL better than they really are, the team wasnt too far from the Lakers roster

In 07, Dirk led his team to 67-15 after losing the first 4. He played damn near perfect while leading his team to winning

Raidaz4Life
07-18-2010, 09:48 PM
ZERO, but I'm ok with his first and last MVP. and he should have ZERO finals mvp awards!!! Pau Gasol should have 2 finals mvp awards!!! Look at the stats. Anyone else think that's a straight up crime! Commissioner obviously wants to sell Kobe for the NBA. Poor Pau.

Oh come on dude you clearly have no idea what you're talking about

yes Kobe only shot 41% from the field while averaging 28.5/8/4

But Pau only shot 48% while putting up 18.5/11.5/3.7

The numbers I will admit are decently close but that does not take into account the fact that Kobe SHUT DOWN The Celtic's MVP, Rajon Rondo all series. Not to mention he is the leader of the Lakers and the heart that led them all series long. I am so sick of people saying Pau was the MVP, Kobe's value goes well beyond his stats.


There is no way you can even make an argument for Pau in the Orlando series. Kobe was unreal averaging 32.5/5.5/7.5 not to mention 1.5 steals and blocks.

foonaka
07-18-2010, 09:48 PM
I'm good with the one he has. I could argue that he should have won it this year, because I don't think Lebron deserved it, but I think Kevin Durant was even better than both of them this year.

Jazzgear
07-18-2010, 09:54 PM
It's no secret we as Laker fans feel Kobe Bryant should definitely have more than 1 MVP since he's been on top of the league for a while now. But bias aside, realistically, how many MVP's should Kobe have right now? or do you guys feel his only one was well deserved?

I can make an argument for Kobe being deserving of at least one of the two Nash won. So at least two, possibly 3.

Raidaz4Life
07-18-2010, 09:55 PM
In 06, Nash led his team to the 2nd best record in the West without a big man and playing with only 7-8 players a night... Made Diaw, Bell, Barbosa, and Jones ALL better than they really are, the team wasnt too far from the Lakers roster

In 07, Dirk led his team to 67-15 after losing the first 4. He played damn near perfect while leading his team to winning

Nash's statistics were hardly any better than any other year Kobe had an OUTSTANDING year in 05. It was completely ridiculous setting all time records.

Same with Dirk. I do not understand how you can have nearly the exact same statistics in the same years yet one year be the most valuable and the next year not.

HouRealCoach
07-18-2010, 09:56 PM
But on Topic

I think he should have won in 2006, 2008, 2009

2006... Look at my other post
2008... He deserved it
2009... Lebron led his team to the best record with Mo Will as the second best player and Mike Brown as coach... Imagine if he had Gasol, Bynum, Odom, Ariza, and Phil Jackson, while averaging More PPG, APG, RPG, BPG, SPG, and shooting a better FG%

2006 is argueable but dont see how you can come to that conclusion, 2009 is a no brainer

Avenged
07-18-2010, 09:59 PM
I can make an argument for Kobe being deserving of at least one of the two Nash won. So at least two, possibly 3.

I think someone with the talent Kobe has, he definitely should have more than 1. He's currently tied with Dirk in MVP's and that doesn't seem right to me. (That's not taking anything away from Dirk but compare the 2 players and Kobe is way above him). I think when Kobe avg 35ppg should have been his 1st MVP which in total would leave him with 2.

HouRealCoach
07-18-2010, 10:02 PM
Nash's statistics were hardly any better than any other year Kobe had an OUTSTANDING year in 05. It was completely ridiculous setting all time records.

Same with Dirk. I do not understand how you can have nearly the exact same statistics in the same years yet one year be the most valuable and the next year not.

Its not about stats its about Impact... and its because they won and if you took them off those teams they would go from the best to the Lottery QUICK!!! and they werent fighting for the 7th and 8th spot they werent fighting for the best record. Kobe's squad's would go from "average" to lottery

Kobe5RingKing
07-18-2010, 10:02 PM
I think he should have won it in 05-06 and 06-07 as well because he clearly was the most valuable player in the league, he just had won of the worst supporting casts in history.

^ That

Avenged
07-18-2010, 10:08 PM
I think he should have won it in 05-06 and 06-07 as well because he clearly was the most valuable player in the league, he just had won of the worst supporting casts in history.

It could definitely be argued since he took a team with "scrubs" to the playoffs and I believe the Lakers ended up grabbing the 7th seed in one of those years which should be considered "over accomplishing". Nash was playing insane basketball and made himself elite during those years so it can be argued Nash's MVP's were well deserved but looking at what Kobe did with a team far less talented should have gotten him at least 1.

HouRealCoach
07-18-2010, 10:08 PM
I think someone with the talent Kobe has, he definitely should have more than 1. He's currently tied with Dirk in MVP's and that doesn't seem right to me. (That's not taking anything away from Dirk but compare the 2 players and Kobe is way above him). I think when Kobe avg 35ppg should have been his 1st MVP which in total would leave him with 2.

MJ didnt win when he averaged 37... AI didnt win when he averaged 33... T-Mac didnt win when he averaged 32

Kobe broke records that year but it isnt like he led his team to any type of success and records are always broken but that doesnt mean you should just hand that person the MVP

Enemey
07-18-2010, 10:11 PM
2006... Look at my other post
2008... He deserved it
2009... Lebron led his team to the best record with Mo Will as the second best player and Mike Brown as coach... Imagine if he had Gasol, Bynum, Odom, Ariza, and Phil Jackson, while averaging More PPG, APG, RPG, BPG, SPG, and shooting a better FG%

2006 is argueable but dont see how you can come to that conclusion, 2009 is a no brainer

Well First Lebron would not average More in rebounds because gasol and odom bynum would take it from him.

Second he will be playing the Triangle offense which would take away him Holding the ball 90% of the time and his assist would go down a bit of the Triangle offense.

3rd. His scoring will ether go down or stay the same with the laker players.

I dont understand how you would say his SPG would go up ? Changing teams wont effect your ability to steal from other players or play the passing lanes.
And I dont think he will get more blocks with the Lakers because of the Lakers Size and Bynum and Gasol are great blockers.

BiGG_MaCc
07-18-2010, 10:11 PM
Kobe should of had every one since 96. Why are Lebron, Bosh, and Wade so convinced that they can win anything. Just because they played together in the olympics, doesn't mean THEY are good. If it wasnt for Kobe, Team USA would of NEVER won gold medals. Its the main reason for the West losing the All Star Game....no KOBE.

Kobe wins 6th this year, 2011 NBA Finals MVP.:clap:

Raidaz4Life
07-18-2010, 10:13 PM
MJ didnt win when he averaged 37... AI didnt win when he averaged 33... T-Mac didnt win when he averaged 32

Kobe broke records that year but it isnt like he led his team to any type of success and records are always broken but that doesnt mean you should just hand that person the MVP

I do not feel that being on a stacked team should have any sort of impact on who wins. Like I said going into the 06 season, Kobe had absolutely no chance to win it because he was on a team that would not have won even 5 games without him. Guys like smush parker, kwame brown, and Luke walton were in the starting lineup.... These guys were simply on the team, they were starting.

Avenged
07-18-2010, 10:13 PM
MJ didnt win when he averaged 37... AI didnt win when he averaged 33... T-Mac didnt win when he averaged 32

Kobe broke records that year but it isnt like he led his team to any type of success and records are always broken but that doesnt mean you should just hand that person the MVP

That can be argued as well but Kobe didn't have great talent around him per say, at least not the type of talent Nash had. Nash had an elite team, while Kobe was taking a far less talented team above 500 and to the postseason. I think it's much closer than what people make it out to be. The Lakers were also 1 win away from eliminating the Suns, which if they had, I know a couple voters would definitely have regretted their vote. Unfortunately, that wasn't the case.

HouRealCoach
07-18-2010, 10:15 PM
It could definitely be argued since he took a team with "scrubs" to the playoffs and I believe the Lakers ended up grabbing the 7th seed in one of those years which should be considered "over accomplishing". Nash was playing insane basketball and made himself elite during those years so it can be argued Nash's MVP's were well deserved but looking at what Kobe did with a team far less talented should have gotten him at least 1.


Over accomplishing??? Scrubs??? He averaged 23.3 ppg in the playoffs when they won, and 31.1 when they lost... Doesnt seem like Scrubs to me.. .and they are the same players from the beginning in 2007-2008 season when they were winning, just add Ariza and Fisher

Dallas Tx4Life
07-18-2010, 10:15 PM
Yeah, he should have won one during his ******** days of scoring 40+ in how many games straight? Can someone hit me with that awesome statistic?

LeWade>Kobe
07-18-2010, 10:18 PM
Just the one he won. Refer to www.82games.com if you want to understand what goes into an MVP season.

HouRealCoach
07-18-2010, 10:19 PM
Well First Lebron would not average More in rebounds because gasol and odom bynum would take it from him.

Second he will be playing the Triangle offense which would take away him Holding the ball 90% of the time and his assist would go down a bit of the Triangle offense.

3rd. His scoring will ether go down or stay the same with the laker players.

I dont understand how you would say his SPG would go up ? Changing teams wont effect your ability to steal from other players or play the passing lanes.
And I dont think he will get more blocks with the Lakers because of the Lakers Size and Bynum and Gasol are great blockers.

I wasnt saying it would go up... Im saying in all those categories Lebron had Kobe beat... While getting more wins and if Lebron had what Kobe had that year it would make it even easier

HouRealCoach
07-18-2010, 10:22 PM
I do not feel that being on a stacked team should have any sort of impact on who wins. Like I said going into the 06 season, Kobe had absolutely no chance to win it because he was on a team that would not have won even 5 games without him. Guys like smush parker, kwame brown, and Luke walton were in the starting lineup.... These guys were simply on the team, they were starting.

You dont understand... Nash didnt have a Big Man, and look at the stats of Diaw, Bell, and Barbosa when they were Nashless, they were doing nothing like they were with Nash

Nash didnt have a "Stacked" team... He just makes his players better

HouRealCoach
07-18-2010, 10:22 PM
That can be argued as well but Kobe didn't have great talent around him per say, at least not the type of talent Nash had. Nash had an elite team, while Kobe was taking a far less talented team above 500 and to the postseason. I think it's much closer than what people make it out to be. The Lakers were also 1 win away from eliminating the Suns, which if they had, I know a couple voters would definitely have regretted their vote. Unfortunately, that wasn't the case.

What players in 2006 did Nash have that were elite??

Avenged
07-18-2010, 10:27 PM
Over accomplishing??? Scrubs??? He averaged 23.3 ppg in the playoffs when they won, and 31.1 when they lost... Doesnt seem like Scrubs to me.. .and they are the same players from the beginning in 2007-2008 season when they were winning, just add Ariza and Fisher

They had Smush starting at PG and Kwame who can be argued is a solid backup center, not a starter by any means. Luke Walton was arguably the second best player the Lakers had, come on man. Lamar Odom has proven time and time again he can't handle being a 2nd option or 3rd. The team also consisted of Brian Cook, Chris Mihm, Shammond Williams who aren't necessarily great players, let alone good bench players.

The Lakers did have Bynum but he wasn't the player he is today. I believe he was a sophomore at the time. Turiaf was also a sophomore in 06-07 and isn't a player whom you can say "Kobe had Turiaf, so he should have had more success". The point is, Kobe's teammates were scrubs at the time, aside of L.O who was extremely inconsistent.

golbin
07-18-2010, 10:33 PM
c'mon guys bryants been the best player for ATLEAST 10 years...who can say they can beat bryant one on one the last 10 years?? who??? regular stats mean SO MUCH doesnt it..

and what is the mvp...the Media's Valuble Player award??

thats why he's won only 1..

Raidaz4Life
07-18-2010, 10:34 PM
You dont understand... Nash didnt have a Big Man, and look at the stats of Diaw, Bell, and Barbosa when they were Nashless, they were doing nothing like they were with Nash

Nash didnt have a "Stacked" team... He just makes his players better

Bell had hardly any increase in stats after moving from Utah and most of what little increase he did have can be attributed to the high tempo suns system and the fact that he played 10 extra minutes a game. Diaw had a season and a half of his best stats in charlotte so there goes Diaw, and Barbosa has never played outside of Phoenix so there goes your theory about Nash making his players better. Not to mention the fact that he had Shawn Marion who played outstanding. If anything that phoenix suns team made Nash better whose stats especially his assists took a significant jump from his dallas days. That team was stacked no matter how you look at it and I am in shock that you said Nash's supporting cast was only marginally better than Kobe's.

Enemey
07-18-2010, 10:37 PM
Bell had hardly any increase in stats after moving from Utah and most of what little increase he did have can be attributed to the high tempo suns system and the fact that he played 10 extra minutes a game. Diaw had a season and a half of his best stats in charlotte so there goes Diaw, and Barbosa has never played outside of Phoenix so there goes your theory about Nash making his players better. Not to mention the fact that he had Shawn Marion who played outstanding. If anything that phoenix suns team made Nash better whose stats especially his assists took a significant jump from his dallas days. That team was stacked no matter how you look at it and I am in shock that you said Nash's supporting cast was only marginally better than Kobe's.

Exactly :clap::clap: .

HouRealCoach
07-18-2010, 10:40 PM
They had Smush starting at PG and Kwame who can be argued is a solid backup center, not a starter by any means. Luke Walton was arguably the second best player the Lakers had, come on man. Lamar Odom has proven time and time again he can't handle being a 2nd option or 3rd. The team also consisted of Brian Cook, Chris Mihm, Shammond Williams who aren't necessarily great players, let alone good bench players.

The Lakers did have Bynum but he wasn't the player he is today. I believe he was a sophomore at the time. Turiaf was also a sophomore in 06-07 and isn't a player whom you can say "Kobe had Turiaf, so he should have had more success". The point is, Kobe's teammates were scrubs at the time, aside of L.O who was extremely inconsistent.

Lets break down Nash's cast... Diaw, before he went to Suns, was a guard averaging 4ppg and they had him at Center, Raja Bell with Nash has averaged 13.7 ppg and without him he's averaged 8.1, 2006 was the year Barbosa got minutes with Nash and he averaged 7ppg before that, Marion was Marion

and they had a BIG coaching difference

HouRealCoach
07-18-2010, 10:44 PM
c'mon guys bryants been the best player for ATLEAST 10 years...who can say they can beat bryant one on one the last 10 years?? who??? regular stats mean SO MUCH doesnt it..

and what is the mvp...the Media's Valuble Player award??

thats why he's won only 1..

He wasnt any 97 through 2005... 2006 yeah, 2007 maybe, 2008 argueable, 2009 & 2010 HELL NO!

crono6
07-18-2010, 10:46 PM
1 the number that he has now

shep33
07-18-2010, 10:47 PM
Kobe and Shaq both got screwed over. Your telling me those guys combined have 9 titles and only 2 MVP's, but Dirk and Nash have 3 with 0 titles, and 1 NBA finals appearance?

Honestly the MVP award is a joke anyways, I really don't care if Kobe wins it or not, Finals are more important and the playoffs is when the real season starts.

HouRealCoach
07-18-2010, 10:47 PM
Bell had hardly any increase in stats after moving from Utah and most of what little increase he did have can be attributed to the high tempo suns system and the fact that he played 10 extra minutes a game. Diaw had a season and a half of his best stats in charlotte so there goes Diaw, and Barbosa has never played outside of Phoenix so there goes your theory about Nash making his players better. Not to mention the fact that he had Shawn Marion who played outstanding. If anything that phoenix suns team made Nash better whose stats especially his assists took a significant jump from his dallas days. That team was stacked no matter how you look at it and I am in shock that you said Nash's supporting cast was only marginally better than Kobe's.

The team was in the lottery before Nash came and jumnped to the best best record in the league as soon as he got on the team, and I remember stretches where Nash got injured and they didnt have a clue on how to win let alone play

and look at any player that Nash has had with Lamar Odom's calibur and he made them look like All-Stars

Enemey
07-18-2010, 10:48 PM
Lets break down Nash's cast... Diaw, before he went to Suns, was a guard averaging 4ppg and they had him at Center, Raja Bell with Nash has averaged 13.7 ppg and without him he's averaged 8.1, 2006 was the year Barbosa got minutes with Nash and he averaged 7ppg before that, Marion was Marion

and they had a BIG coaching difference

Now lets take a look at 2006 Lakers starters. Smush Parker where are you ?

Kwame Brown a bench player . Luke Walton a bench player. Lamar Odom a sixth man of the bench.

Kobe4Life
07-18-2010, 10:48 PM
People have already posted the years that he deserved it but overall I say he should have had 3 by now.

HouRealCoach
07-18-2010, 10:49 PM
Kobe and Shaq both got screwed over. Your telling me those guys combined have 9 titles and only 2 MVP's, but Dirk and Nash have 3 with 0 titles, and 1 NBA finals appearance?

Honestly the MVP award is a joke anyways, I really don't care if Kobe wins it or not, Finals are more important and the playoffs is when the real season starts.

Point out the years Kobe should have won and why... I just dont see it

HouRealCoach
07-18-2010, 10:53 PM
Now lets take a look at 2006 Lakers starters. Smush Parker where are you ?

Kwame Brown a bench player . Luke Walton a bench player. Lamar Odom a sixth man of the bench.

Boris Diaw and Raja have been bench players other than the Suns, Marion is a starter, 33 year old Kurt Thomas = Bench player, James Jones and Tim Thomas are also bench players

Enemey
07-18-2010, 10:55 PM
He wasnt any 97 through 2005... 2006 yeah, 2007 maybe, 2008 argueable, 2009 & 2010 HELL NO!

Kobe was and still is better then Iverson
Kobe was and still is Better then Vince Carter
Kobe was and still is better the TMAC
Kobe was and still is better then Lebron James
Kobe was better and still is then Tim Duncan

Kobe best player since 2000 and in 2001 Shaq Declared Kobe was the best player in the League

Enemey
07-18-2010, 10:58 PM
Boris Diaw and Raja have been bench players other than the Suns, Marion is a starter, 33 year old Kurt Thomas = Bench player, James Jones and Tim Thomas are also bench players

Raja Bell is better the Smush Parker100X
Diaw is better then Kwame Brown by 100x
Marion is better then Luke Walton by10x

Wilson
07-18-2010, 10:58 PM
Steve Nash absolutely deserved it in the 2005-2006 season. I agree with HouRealCoach that that Suns team, outside of Steve Nash, was not a good team. Nash got them the number two seed, that's a well deserved MVP award. I do think Phil Jackson should have got the Coach of the Year award (who did win it? I don't recall), he had guys like Smush Parker and Kwame Brown playing good, effective ball as starters, especially in the push towards the play-offs.

I still can't see why Dirk got it over Kobe in the '06-'07 season. Kobe was superhuman that year. The bottom really fell out for Smush and Kwame, Lamar was inconsistent, and Luke Walton is not a second or third option. Kobe and Steve each deserved it that year in my opinion, although as a Laker fan I do really wish Kobe had gotten one.

That year Dirk had Devin Harris, Jason Terry and Josh Howard, who are all productive players. Especially guys like Jet and Howard when they can be the third and fourth option offensively.

For the '07-'08 season, I think you can make a case for Chris Paul over Kobe. That year we had Andrew Bynum playing great basketball for the first half of the year, then Pau in the second. Lamar Odom really flourished as the third option, the bench was great, Fish was back home, and we received a big boost from Trevor Ariza before he got hurt. The only huge weak link on the team was Vladimir Radmanovic (I hated that guy).

To summarise, I'm on the fence with this one, Kobe deserves 1-3 MVP awards...(so far...)...:p

Raidaz4Life
07-18-2010, 11:04 PM
The team was in the lottery before Nash came and jumnped to the best best record in the league as soon as he got on the team, and I remember stretches where Nash got injured and they didnt have a clue on how to win let alone play

and look at any player that Nash has had with Lamar Odom's calibur and he made them look like All-Stars

Once again you have yet to show me one legitimate player that improved significantly by playing with Nash. Yes you reference to the big turn around but they had a much different team around them than the year before. Its not like Nash popped right in and they were playoff bound. They got Dantoni who implemented a new offense, they grabbed Diaw, they got Bell, Kurt Thomas, Tim Thomas, Eddie House. I mean COME ON that roster is the definition of stacked and it all came in with Dantoni and Nash. There is no possible way you can attribute that turn around solely on Nash.

HouRealCoach
07-18-2010, 11:04 PM
Kobe was and still is better then Iverson
Kobe was and still is Better then Vince Carter
Kobe was and still is better the TMAC
Kobe was and still is better then Lebron James
Kobe was better and still is then Tim Duncan

Kobe best player since 2000 and in 2001 Shaq Declared Kobe was the best player in the League

and MJ says he's not any better than Magic, Bird etc but we all know he is... Ellis says he's the second best player in the league... NBA players say alot of things but doesnt mean anything

But if AI, VC, T-Mac, or Lebron played with a guy that had the strength to get anywhere on the court, average 26ppg+, 12rpg+, 3bpg+, along with clutch players like Horry, Fox, and Fisher, and be coached by Phil Jackson Im sure they would have done the same

AI without a doubt has more skills than Kobe on the offensive end just look at what he did with his size and he also took a team where no one else averaged 15ppg to the Finals but when Kobe had that he got put out the first round:eyebrow:

VC and T-Mac were also a BEAST on the court before injuries occured

and come one every year Duncan won a title he was the best player on the team...

Also I add that 97-2002 Kobe was NOT a better player than Shaq, 2003 and 2004 yeah but that was Shaq & Kobe's downfall years

Enemey
07-18-2010, 11:12 PM
and MJ says he's not any better than Magic, Bird etc but we all know he is... Ellis says he's the second best player in the league... NBA players say alot of things but doesnt mean anything

But if AI, VC, T-Mac, or Lebron played with a guy that had the strength to get anywhere on the court, average 26ppg+, 12rpg+, 3bpg+, along with clutch players like Horry, Fox, and Fisher, and be coached by Phil Jackson Im sure they would have done the same

AI without a doubt has more skills than Kobe on the offensive end just look at what he did with his size and he also took a team where no one else averaged 15ppg to the Finals but when Kobe had that he got put out the first round:eyebrow:

VC and T-Mac were also a BEAST on the court before injuries occured

and come one every year Duncan won a title he was the best player on the team...

Also I add that 97-2002 Kobe was NOT a better player than Shaq, 2003 and 2004 yeah but that was Shaq & Kobe's downfall years

Im pretty sure VC is playing with a guy named Dwight Howard right NOW and he still chokes in the playoffs!!!

Kobe bryant is better overall player then AI. AI never played defense because he was scared get get embarresed by a crossover move. Was never good at defense. avg under 40% for a couple season. Kobe was a better rebounder.

Also A.i was traded to Nuggets and never made it past 1st round in his prime with MELO.

amos1er
07-18-2010, 11:15 PM
2006... Look at my other post
2008... He deserved it
2009... Lebron led his team to the best record with Mo Will as the second best player and Mike Brown as coach... Imagine if he had Gasol, Bynum, Odom, Ariza, and Phil Jackson, while averaging More PPG, APG, RPG, BPG, SPG, and shooting a better FG%

2006 is argueable but dont see how you can come to that conclusion, 2009 is a no brainer

2010 should have gone to Durant without question, he was working with a lot less than "King James" and in a much much harder conference. He took a team that had no business winning 35 games and somehow lead them to 50 wins. Mad props to KD for that. He was also the youngest player in NBA history to win a scoring title. Lebron never showed scoring prowess like that at that age. Clearly Durant got robber in favor of "The Chosen One". The NBA should be ashamed. Again, all Lebron did was beat down a bunch of weak teams to justify his MVP title.

2009 is closer than you think, ...You have to admit that winning 66 games in the east is equal to winning 50 games in the west considering that the bottom half of the playoff teams are sub .500 and the rest of the teams are complete garbage. The Lakers won 65 games that year (only one less than Lebron) in a much much harder conference. The playoff teams in the west that year all won 50 + games.

The Lebrons would have been a 5-8 seed in the west for sure. Therefore I wouldn't put much stock into their regular season record. Also, The Lakers beat the Lebrons both times they played them that year, both at home and on the road. I think that the MVP could have gone to either Lebron or Kobe that year...what really is unfair and is why most Laker fans feel so angry is that "the media" had such an overwhelming vote in favor of Lebron. The numbers should have been much much closer. Just goes to show how bias the media really can be.

2007 was Dirks year for sure.

2006 was a ****ing robbery. Nash was not only an MVP that year, but a back to back MVP for that matter. Look at all the great players throughout the history of the NBA who won back to backs. Nash is a great player, a for sure hall of famer, and a top 50 player of all time, but clearly does not deserve to be mentioned along side players like Kareem, Magic, Bird, Russell, and Wilt. In order to go back to back a player must do something amazing to justify it.

Nash getting the second best record in the west with that roster was pretty amazing. But not nearly as amazing as Kobe leading a team ,that aside from Lamar Odom all belonged in the D-League, to a 7 seed in the west while leading the league in scoring is a ****ing miracle. He averaged 35.4 ppg in the regular season. Something that no other player other than Michael Jordan was able to do in the modern era of the NBA and something you will most likely never see happen again. Kobe also scored 81 points in a single game that year and 62 points in three quarters. Again things you will most likely never witness again. This was clearly a robbery.

So I would say that Kobe clearly deserves 2 MVP awards, and possibly could make an argument for three in 2009.

HouRealCoach
07-18-2010, 11:16 PM
Once again you have yet to show me one legitimate player that improved significantly by playing with Nash. Yes you reference to the big turn around but they had a much different team around them than the year before. Its not like Nash popped right in and they were playoff bound. They got Dantoni who implemented a new offense, they grabbed Diaw, they got Bell, Kurt Thomas, Tim Thomas, Eddie House. I mean COME ON that roster is the definition of stacked and it all came in with Dantoni and Nash. There is no possible way you can attribute that turn around solely on Nash.

Well they didnt have D'Antoni this year and they are STILL the second best in the west... While D'Antoni's team is in the lottery. and you mean to tell me that Diaw and Bell werent playing better with Nash?? Marion also had his best years with Nash. I cant believe you said a team that grabs Diaw who averaged 4ppg his previous year, Bell who averaged 11, House who averaged 6ppg, Thomas who averaged 11ppg, James Jones who averaged 5ppg and all except House played on teams that didnt make the playoffs.

Add MArion's 19 he had the previous year thats 56 ppg... Nash turned that into 90ppg adding the 18 he had in 2006, Sorry but that is not stacked dude

lakersfan01
07-18-2010, 11:18 PM
kobe shot a poor percentage in the last 2 finals and gasol shot a much better percentage. gasol owned dwight howard in 2009 and owned kevin garnett and the other big guys in 2010. gasol battled, yes battled against other most dominant bigs in the nba. not many players in the league could have filled gasol's role in their last 2 championships. kobe is great and a fighter, but he didn't have to battle against 7 feet dominant monsters like gasol did. especially in 2010 finals, i was shocked, but not shocked (commissioner), that gasol was robbed of finals mvp. 6 of 24 imo should have cost kobe the finals mvp. that was painful to watch him hoist that many shots with that bad of fingers. i sure hope they can somehow make his fingers better. i don't see kobe trying to dish 10 assists. he seems more hell bent no matter the consequences to average 25 ppg to chase kareem's all time scoring record. sometimes i think thats the reason he doesn't want to rest a game when we all could see he needed rest. hell of a competitor though, can't question that.

lakersfan01
07-18-2010, 11:20 PM
i thought 2010 regular season mvp should have went to kevin durant too. without him, the thunder would not have made playoffs. they would stink without him. once again, its in the nba's interest to give lebron regular season mvp. they like to promote kobe and lebron.

Enemey
07-18-2010, 11:23 PM
Well they didnt have D'Antoni this year and they are STILL the second best in the west... While D'Antoni's team is in the lottery. and you mean to tell me that Diaw and Bell werent playing better with Nash?? Marion also had his best years with Nash. I cant believe you said a team that grabs Diaw who averaged 4ppg his previous year, Bell who averaged 11, House who averaged 6ppg, Thomas who averaged 11ppg, James Jones who averaged 5ppg and all except House played on teams that didnt make the playoffs.

Add MArion's 19 he had the previous year thats 56 ppg... Nash turned that into 90ppg adding the 18 he had in 2006, Sorry but that is not stacked dude

Boris Diaw is a starter for the Bobcats and is having his best years there!

HouRealCoach
07-18-2010, 11:26 PM
2010 should have gone to Durant without question, he was working with a lot less than "King James" and in a much much harder conference. He took a team that had no business winning 35 games and somehow lead them to 50 wins. Mad props to KD for that. He was also the youngest player in NBA history to win a scoring title. Lebron never showed scoring prowess like that at that age. Clearly Durant got robber in favor of "The Chosen One". The NBA should be ashamed. Again, all Lebron did was beat down a bunch of weak teams to justify his MVP title.

2009 is closer than you think, ...You have to admit that winning 66 games in the east is equal to winning 50 games in the west considering that the bottom half of the playoff teams are sub .500 and the rest of the teams are complete garbage. The Lakers won 65 games that year (only one less than Lebron) in a much much harder conference. The playoff teams in the west that year all won 50 + games.

The Lebrons would have been a 5-8 seed in the west for sure. Therefore I wouldn't put much stock into their regular season record. Also, The Lakers beat the Lebrons both times they played them that year, both at home and on the road. I think that the MVP could have gone to either Lebron or Kobe that year...what really is unfair and is why most Laker fans feel so angry is that "the media" had such an overwhelming vote in favor of Lebron. The numbers should have been much much closer. Just goes to show how bias the media really can be.

2007 was Dirks year for sure.

2006 was a ****ing robbery. Nash was not only an MVP that year, but a back to back MVP for that matter. Look at all the great players throughout the history of the NBA who won back to backs. Nash is a great player, a for sure hall of famer, and a top 50 player of all time, but clearly does not deserve to be mentioned along side players like Kareem, Magic, Bird, Russell, and Wilt. In order to go back to back a player must do something amazing to justify it.

Nash getting the second best record in the west with that roster was pretty amazing. But not nearly as amazing as Kobe leading a team ,that aside from Lamar Odom all belonged in the D-League, to a 7 seed in the west while leading the league in scoring is a ****ing miracle. He averaged 35.4 ppg in the regular season. Something that no other player other than Michael Jordan was able to do in the modern era of the NBA and something you will most likely never see happen again. Kobe also scored 81 points in a single game that year and 62 points in three quarters. Again things you will most likely never witness again. This was clearly a robbery.

So I would say that Kobe clearly deserves 2 MVP awards, and possibly could make an argument for three in 2009.

Dont forget Kobe had Bynum, Gasol, Odom, Ariza, and Phil Jackson and every team that year in the West didnt win 50+ games but I admit that it was the better conference... Lebron's best players after him were Mo, Big Z, Varejao, and West... They are NO WHERE NEAR what Kobe had and he also HAD to play 5 on 1 night in and night out and that isnt easy I bet

Plus the Lakers were 44-8 vs. the West in 09 so evidentally it was the Eastern teams beating them the most

Enemey
07-18-2010, 11:27 PM
Well they didnt have D'Antoni this year and they are STILL the second best in the west... While D'Antoni's team is in the lottery. and you mean to tell me that Diaw and Bell werent playing better with Nash?? Marion also had his best years with Nash. I cant believe you said a team that grabs Diaw who averaged 4ppg his previous year, Bell who averaged 11, House who averaged 6ppg, Thomas who averaged 11ppg, James Jones who averaged 5ppg and all except House played on teams that didnt make the playoffs.

Add MArion's 19 he had the previous year thats 56 ppg... Nash turned that into 90ppg adding the 18 he had in 2006, Sorry but that is not stacked dude
They didnt have D'antoni last year and missed the playoffs and Nash didnt even avg double digit assist. Nash is just a system player thats it.Overrated

JNA17
07-18-2010, 11:27 PM
2006, 2007.

HouRealCoach
07-18-2010, 11:30 PM
Boris Diaw is a starter for the Bobcats and is having his best years there!

He gets more points but with Phoenix he had more rpg, apg, and he was winning

lakersfan01
07-18-2010, 11:31 PM
Shaq should have many more MVPs than he does! He was the sole reason the lakers won 3 championships. There was not a player in the league that could have stepped into center for lakers. Kobe could have been replaced by several wing players and we still would have won. Shaq is the most dominant player ever in history. Kareem was the most skilled big man in history. But Shaq most dominant.

HouRealCoach
07-18-2010, 11:33 PM
They didnt have D'antoni last year and missed the playoffs and Nash didnt even avg double digit assist. Nash is just a system player thats it.Overrated

What happened to Kobe when he didnt Phil??? Everyone has a bad year which Nash still led the team to a 46-36 record and eh, look at his latest year 2nd best record in west and averaging 16, 11 so....

Enemey
07-18-2010, 11:38 PM
What happened to Kobe when he didnt Phil??? Everyone has a bad year which Nash still led the team to a 46-36 record and eh, look at his latest year 2nd best record in west and averaging 16, 11 so....

Did you forget that Lakers were slightly better then .500 untill kobe was injured that season ? And the coach got fired in midseason ? And he still played great without PHIL!!

They were 3rd not 2nd. And they went back to that run n gun system. where he can get alot of assists. Nash is a sytem player

CalJo1617
07-18-2010, 11:39 PM
let lebron wear his MVP t-shirts and Kobe can wear his rings. besides dont you think nash would trade all his MVPs for one measly ring. individual accolades are great but it doesnt define a players career. titles do

HouRealCoach
07-18-2010, 11:42 PM
Did you forget that Lakers were slightly better then .500 untill kobe was injured that season ? And the coach got fired in midseason ? And he still played great without PHIL!!

They were 3rd not 2nd. And they went back to that run n gun system. where he can get alot of assists. Nash is a sytem player

Nope... but Like I said everyone has a bad year....

Raidaz4Life
07-18-2010, 11:42 PM
Well they didnt have D'Antoni this year and they are STILL the second best in the west... While D'Antoni's team is in the lottery. and you mean to tell me that Diaw and Bell werent playing better with Nash?? Marion also had his best years with Nash. I cant believe you said a team that grabs Diaw who averaged 4ppg his previous year, Bell who averaged 11, House who averaged 6ppg, Thomas who averaged 11ppg, James Jones who averaged 5ppg and all except House played on teams that didnt make the playoffs.

Add MArion's 19 he had the previous year thats 56 ppg... Nash turned that into 90ppg adding the 18 he had in 2006, Sorry but that is not stacked dude

Diaw's minutes doubled his first year in phoenix hence the huge jump in production and dropped back down after that year even though he was still on the same team as Nash. He put up great numbers in charlotte the past two years and they had Felton as their PG who we all know isn't even comparable. Bell's PPG jumped by 2.5 between Utah and Phoenix but once again he played in a faster paced offense AND averaged 10 more MPG. Not to mention Bell was a fantastic defender. Eddie House averaged 10 ppg in under 20 mpg which is pretty good even though he showed he could do the same thing in sacramento when he received minutes. Tim Thomas was already a 12+ ppg 40% 3p shooter BEFORE coming to phoenix, Kurt was an 11-8 guy prior to coming to phoenix while once again providing tough defense. Marion's number's took a slight bump with the addition to Nash but he was already an established 17-9 guy (19-11 the season before) long before Nash got there and not to mention he was way better than anyone Kobe had on his team.


Lets compare teams here.

Bell>Smush
Marion>Odom
Diaw>Kwame
K. Thomas>Turiaf
T. Thomas>Walton
House>Sasha
Barbosa>D George



I mean come on I don't see how you can even attempt to argue the quality of their supporting casts.

HouRealCoach
07-18-2010, 11:43 PM
let lebron wear his MVP t-shirts and Kobe can wear his rings. besides dont you think nash would trade all his MVPs for one measly ring. individual accolades are great but it doesnt define a players career. titles do

Im with u on that... Kobe by alot of people is called the second best player ever. He really doesnt need any MVP's

Raidaz4Life
07-18-2010, 11:44 PM
kobe shot a poor percentage in the last 2 finals and gasol shot a much better percentage. gasol owned dwight howard in 2009 and owned kevin garnett and the other big guys in 2010. gasol battled, yes battled against other most dominant bigs in the nba. not many players in the league could have filled gasol's role in their last 2 championships. kobe is great and a fighter, but he didn't have to battle against 7 feet dominant monsters like gasol did. especially in 2010 finals, i was shocked, but not shocked (commissioner), that gasol was robbed of finals mvp. 6 of 24 imo should have cost kobe the finals mvp. that was painful to watch him hoist that many shots with that bad of fingers. i sure hope they can somehow make his fingers better. i don't see kobe trying to dish 10 assists. he seems more hell bent no matter the consequences to average 25 ppg to chase kareem's all time scoring record. sometimes i think thats the reason he doesn't want to rest a game when we all could see he needed rest. hell of a competitor though, can't question that.

You're right 48%... wow astounding for a guy 7 ft tall and who shoots 85% of his shots within 10 feet of the rim.

HouRealCoach
07-18-2010, 11:49 PM
Diaw's minutes doubled his first year in phoenix hence the huge jump in production and dropped back down after that year even though he was still on the same team as Nash. He put up great numbers in charlotte the past two years and they had Felton as their PG who we all know isn't even comparable. Bell's PPG jumped by 2.5 between Utah and Phoenix but once again he played in a faster paced offense AND averaged 10 more MPG. Not to mention Bell was a fantastic defender. Eddie House averaged 10 ppg in under 20 mpg which is pretty good even though he showed he could do the same thing in sacramento when he received minutes. Tim Thomas was already a 12+ ppg 40% 3p shooter BEFORE coming to phoenix, Kurt was an 11-8 guy prior to coming to phoenix while once again providing tough defense. Marion's number's took a slight bump with the addition to Nash but he was already an established 17-9 guy (19-11 the season before) long before Nash got there and not to mention he was way better than anyone Kobe had on his team.


Lets compare teams here.

Bell>Smush
Marion>Odom
Diaw>Kwame
K. Thomas>Turiaf
T. Thomas>Walton
House>Sasha
Barbosa>D George



I mean come on I don't see how you can even attempt to argue the quality of their supporting casts.

You dont get it... Their frontline was Diaw, Marion, K. Thomas and T. Thomas

Any other player with Diaw at center would not have took that team that far

Raidaz4Life
07-18-2010, 11:53 PM
You dont get it... Their frontline was Diaw, Marion, K. Thomas and T. Thomas

Any other player with Diaw at center would not have took that team that far

You don't get that when you're running that offense you don't need a dominant center, just a guy that can make it up and down the floor really fast. Hence the reason Dantoni was perfectly content using a 6'9 David Lee all year.

Enemey
07-18-2010, 11:57 PM
You don't get that when you're running that offense you don't need a dominant center, just a guy that can make it up and down the floor really fast. Hence the reason Dantoni was perfectly content using a 6'9 David Lee all year.

Exactly

RayRay
07-19-2010, 12:06 AM
He only has one? lol seriously didn't know that. Prob cuz the rape came right in his prime years. Bad timing Kobe.

Raidaz4Life
07-19-2010, 12:09 AM
He only has one? lol seriously didn't know that. Prob cuz the rape came right in his prime years. Bad timing Kobe.

yup it was right when he was trying to separate himself from Shaq and trying to establish himself as the best in the league... but the voters wouldn't have it.

Vidball
07-19-2010, 12:25 AM
It doesn't matter...His Finals MVP's and Rings are WAY MORE VALUABLE than regular season MVP's. The regular season is just a tune-up for the big dance!

shep33
07-19-2010, 12:32 AM
Point out the years Kobe should have won and why... I just dont see it

35.4ppg... he carried that team on his back, coming up what 1 game shy of knocking out the Suns. Nobody did more with a worse supporting cast than Kobe that year.

Smush Parker
Kobe
Luke Walton
Odom
Kwame Brown

No bench... Brian Cook maybe their best bench player.

47 wins... pretty good in a very tough western conference. Put the Lakers in the east that year and he gets 55 wins.

ARMIN12NBA
07-19-2010, 01:30 AM
2003, 2006, 2008.

Avenged
07-19-2010, 01:33 AM
Kobe in my mind deserves at least 2 MVP awards. I mean having 1 is great and all but for a player like Kobe who's been considered one of the best if not the best for a while now, to only have 1 MVP doesn't seem right. It can be argued that he deserves 3 but the year Dirk won his MVP should have really gone to Kobe in my opinion.

While I'm not convinced that Nash had scrubs on his team, it can be argued that he deserved one.

anub!s
07-19-2010, 01:46 AM
at least 3.

kid24
07-19-2010, 03:02 AM
hands down at least 3 mvp awards no doubt. the rape incident was the reason he never got it and thats the truth. after that happened the nba always wanted to be as far away from kobe as they could be. but on the basketball court kobe has been the best for years.:bs:

alozz
07-19-2010, 04:18 AM
I think he should have won one of Steve Nash's

Bruno
07-19-2010, 05:03 AM
Just the one he won. Refer to www.82games.com if you want to understand what goes into an MVP season.

haha, thanks for informing all us ignorant Lakers fans.

Kobe should have two MVPS, and three is a coin-flip. Just as most of you all said.

Enemey
07-19-2010, 05:12 AM
I have to agree about Shaq and Kobe . How the hell these two combined for 2 ? When clearly theyve been the best in the decade along with Duncan.

Dallas Tx4Life
07-19-2010, 05:14 AM
Does anyone have the stat for how many games he scored 40+ in a row? It's been eating me alive! Wasn't it like 15 or so?!

MickeyMgl
07-19-2010, 05:35 AM
It's no secret we as Laker fans feel Kobe Bryant should definitely have more than 1 MVP since he's been on top of the league for a while now. But bias aside, realistically, how many MVP's should Kobe have right now? or do you guys feel his only one was well deserved?

'03
(Shaq out much of the season getting healthy "on company time", Kobe did the heavy lifting to get the team to 50 wins and the 2nd round. But in those days, many writers openly said they'd never vote for Kobe as long as he played on the same team with Shaq.... even when Shaq wasn't actually playing.)

'06
(The 1st player people will remember from that season for years to come. That was all about Kobephobia, considering there were about 20-21 writers who left him off their ballot altogether!)

'07
(In my book, as long as a player's team wins more than they lose in the regular season, they're eligible.)

'08
(Statistically less impressive, but he deserved it considering all the injuries that he played through that season, and all the other significant injuries and lineup changes that the team had to deal with - especially contrasted against the bron sitting out two weeks with a jammed finger, watching his Calves team suffer but protecting his own stats.)

'10
(Well............. The season started off well for Kobe's MVP bid, but alas, more injuries - once again to the shooting hand - slowed him down a bit. So no, not this one.)

All up, and judging it somewhat liberally, I'd say Kobe would have been deserving of as many as four MVPs in total by now.... and was egregiously robbed of at least one, so on the low side he ought to have at least two.

P.S. This is based on how things actually unfolded - with Bryant sacrificing his game for several years of his prime in the pursuit of championships alongside a dominant O'Neal - and not on what I think he'd have been capable of if he'd had a team built around him earlier. I dare say he'd have been capable of much bigger numbers, and maybe more awards.

jaji10
07-19-2010, 05:35 AM
kobe should had 2, 2006 and 2008... that's it...

TRUJRUSS
07-19-2010, 05:41 AM
Definitely 2... maybe 3

MickeyMgl
07-19-2010, 05:45 AM
dirk and nash have 3 mvps and kobe has 1. kobe has 5 rings and dirk and nash have 0. i dont care

I'm a fan of people getting the recognition they deserve, so I care. Believe me, players care, too.

MickeyMgl
07-19-2010, 06:03 AM
In 06, Nash led his team to the 2nd best record in the West without a big man and playing with only 7-8 players a night... Made Diaw, Bell, Barbosa, and Jones ALL better than they really are, the team wasnt too far from the Lakers roster


Based on what?
Raja Bell's scrambled FG pct's
44.1%, 43.7%, 40.9%, 45.4%, 42.2%, 45.7%, 42.9%, 43.2%.

Which of these are the ones in which Nash made him better? I could do the same for the other guys, except Barbosa. He's played his entire career in Phoenix, but he has proven himself in international basketball without Nash.

If Steve Nash helped them improve, it was by being so atrocious defensively that his teammates were forced to play better in order to cover for him.

jaji10
07-19-2010, 06:40 AM
and btw, kobe had scrub players in 2006,kwame, smush, b.cook,mihm etc... where r they now? some r still in the nba but at the far end on the bench!!! nash in 2006 had marion an all star, diaw, bell, barbosa, t.thomas, house etc... this are not scrub, they're decent players!! that's why up to now a lot of teams want this players on their roster, lakers even want bell and kurt thomas this coming season!! the fact he led the lakers to the playoffs in 2006 was worthy for mvp considerations...

o.reams2425
07-19-2010, 06:44 AM
withe the year that Kobe had in 05, theres no way nash should have more mvps then kobe. could nash or dirk have had the "mvp year" that they did with a Kwame brown or a smush parker??? i didnt think so. seems everyone forgot wat kobe was working with then. even luke was a starter. u got to be kidding me.

Enemey
07-19-2010, 07:52 AM
I dont even understand how Dirk won MVP when he chokes in the playoffs. Example 2006 Finals. The year he won MVP he chokes vs GSW in 1st round .

MickeyMgl
07-19-2010, 08:43 AM
Kobe broke records that year but it isnt like he led his team to any type of success and records are always broken but that doesnt mean you should just hand that person the MVP

G......... Smush Parker
G......... Kobe Bryant
F......... Luke Walton
F......... Brian Cook
C......... Kwame Brown

This kind of lineup should never happen, but it did. It's too cruel.

JordansBulls
07-19-2010, 08:48 AM
'03
(Shaq out much of the season getting healthy "on company time", Kobe did the heavy lifting to get the team to 50 wins and the 2nd round. But in those days, many writers openly said they'd never vote for Kobe as long as he played on the same team with Shaq.... even when Shaq wasn't actually playing.)

'06
(The 1st player people will remember from that season for years to come. That was all about Kobephobia, considering there were about 20-21 writers who left him off their ballot altogether!)

'07
(In my book, as long as a player's team wins more than they lose in the regular season, they're eligible.)

'08
(Statistically less impressive, but he deserved it considering all the injuries that he played through that season, and all the other significant injuries and lineup changes that the team had to deal with - especially contrasted against the bron sitting out two weeks with a jammed finger, watching his Calves team suffer but protecting his own stats.)

'10
(Well............. The season started off well for Kobe's MVP bid, but alas, more injuries - once again to the shooting hand - slowed him down a bit. So no, not this one.)

All up, and judging it somewhat liberally, I'd say Kobe would have been deserving of as many as four MVPs in total by now.... and was egregiously robbed of at least one, so on the low side he ought to have at least two.

P.S. This is based on how things actually unfolded - with Bryant sacrificing his game for several years of his prime in the pursuit of championships alongside a dominant O'Neal - and not on what I think he'd have been capable of if he'd had a team built around him earlier. I dare say he'd have been capable of much bigger numbers, and maybe more awards.

Don't see how people are saying 2003. The Lakers had two top 3 players in the league and only won 50 games. That same year the Spurs won 60 games with a rookie Parker and last season Robinson and even in the playoffs Duncan showed why he was MVP.

2006/2007 I can definitely see a case for him, but IMO, a player should never get MVP with a seed worse than #4 on the season.

2008 - It is obvious he should have been MVP

2010 - No way, simply because he missed 10 games on the season and also because his teammate actually led the team in both Win Shares and PER on the season.

heatfan03
07-19-2010, 10:56 AM
2008 and 2009 shoulda been kobe

HouRealCoach
07-19-2010, 12:31 PM
I dont even understand how Dirk won MVP when he chokes in the playoffs. Example 2006 Finals. The year he won MVP he chokes vs GSW in 1st round .

Its called "Season" MVP

HouRealCoach
07-19-2010, 12:35 PM
You don't get that when you're running that offense you don't need a dominant center, just a guy that can make it up and down the floor really fast. Hence the reason Dantoni was perfectly content using a 6'9 David Lee all year.

How many games did they win?

HouRealCoach
07-19-2010, 12:55 PM
35.4ppg... he carried that team on his back, coming up what 1 game shy of knocking out the Suns. Nobody did more with a worse supporting cast than Kobe that year.

Smush Parker
Kobe
Luke Walton
Odom
Kwame Brown

No bench... Brian Cook maybe their best bench player.

47 wins... pretty good in a very tough western conference. Put the Lakers in the east that year and he gets 55 wins.

His team were the reasons they won those games(Mainly Game 4), They won 45 not 47, I think that George and Mihm were better than Cook, and Suns players wasnt that much better

Ive proved my point... Neither one of the teams were that bright and to say that Nash didnt have them playing better is just plain stupid... He deserved it... Others also could have gotten it like Lebron(Averaging 31,7,7 leading his team to 50-32), Wade, Elton Brand(NOt easy leading the Clips to the playoffs), Dirk, Duncan, Chauncey Billups so you can argue but it couldve went alot of ways

LA_Raiders
07-19-2010, 01:15 PM
At least 3... He was robbed by Haters 2 times...

Minimal
07-19-2010, 02:01 PM
MVP award gets the player who drove his team to one of the best team records in a season.
70% of the time mvp award is won by the guy whose team had the best record in the season.
2003 - San Antonio Spurs (60-22) 1st in NBA - Tim Duncan
2004 - Minnesota Timberwolves (58-24) 2nd in NBA - Kevin Garnett
2005 - Phoenix Suns (62-20) 1st in NBA - Steve Nash
2006 - Phoenix Suns (54-28) 3rd in NBA - Steve Nash
2007 - Dallas Mavericks (67-15) 1st in NBA - Dirk Nowitzki
2008 - Los Angeles Lakers (57-25) 3rd in NBA - Kobe Bryant
2009 - Cleveland Cavaliers (66-16) 1st in NBA - LeBron James
2010 - Cleveland Cavaliers (61-21) 1st in NBA - LeBron James
In 2008 was his only deserved mvp award. Actually I would have given mvp award that year to Chris Paul who drove Hornets to 56-26 record that year.
Also I would say Pau Gasol deserves last year's Finals MVP award. (I don't like that award, it should be Playoffs MVP not Finals MVP).
Next years award will prolly go to LeBron James or Kevin Durant.

8kobe24
07-19-2010, 02:03 PM
3-4 easily if he wasn't hated on so much by the media. The other 2-3 woulda came easily had they known lebron was gonna jump ship.

shep33
07-19-2010, 02:21 PM
His team were the reasons they won those games(Mainly Game 4), They won 45 not 47, I think that George and Mihm were better than Cook, and Suns players wasnt that much better

Ive proved my point... Neither one of the teams were that bright and to say that Nash didnt have them playing better is just plain stupid... He deserved it... Others also could have gotten it like Lebron(Averaging 31,7,7 leading his team to 50-32), Wade, Elton Brand(NOt easy leading the Clips to the playoffs), Dirk, Duncan, Chauncey Billups so you can argue but it couldve went alot of ways

Honestly the MVP is the most overhyped award ever... I've thought its been useless since the Lakers 3 peat in the early 2000's. It doesn't determine who the best player in the league is at all, and they give it out when the players haven't won anything. Same with the NFL, don't like how they do it... and lets get real MVPs mean nothing if you don't win it all. Wouldn't it be looked at as a kind of failure if your the leagues MVP and you don't win the championship, heck let alone make it to the Finals?

Its a flawed award, and its unfair to those people named the MVP. They'll have the pressure on their backs moreso to bring their team to the promised land. It's an award that should be given after everything is said and done.

LAKERMANIA
07-19-2010, 02:39 PM
I think the only time he should have won was in 2003 when Kobe practically carried the Lakers from a bad record to 4th in the West, including that 15 straight 30+ point streak and 9 straight 40+ point streak

Raidaz4Life
07-19-2010, 02:50 PM
How many games did they win?

What does that have to do with anything? Now you're just leading down rabbit trails.

Raidaz4Life
07-19-2010, 02:53 PM
His team were the reasons they won those games(Mainly Game 4), They won 45 not 47, I think that George and Mihm were better than Cook, and Suns players wasnt that much better

Ive proved my point... Neither one of the teams were that bright and to say that Nash didnt have them playing better is just plain stupid... He deserved it... Others also could have gotten it like Lebron(Averaging 31,7,7 leading his team to 50-32), Wade, Elton Brand(NOt easy leading the Clips to the playoffs), Dirk, Duncan, Chauncey Billups so you can argue but it couldve went alot of ways

No you have yet to prove anything. I have more than proved that Nash's team was FAR superior to Kobe's. It's not even discussable. Nash's next 7 players were ALL better than each of Kobe's next 7 best players. I am still amazed that you think you can argue this. Just because they didn't have Amare doesn't mean they were a crappy team because imo he had one of the top 10 best supporting casts of the decade.

evadatam5150
07-19-2010, 03:20 PM
MJ didnt win when he averaged 37... AI didnt win when he averaged 33... T-Mac didnt win when he averaged 32

Kobe broke records that year but it isnt like he led his team to any type of success and records are always broken but that doesnt mean you should just hand that person the MVP

It's not like Nash has LED any team to a Championship either..

BKdoubleStacker
07-19-2010, 04:12 PM
Pretty laughable that you are trying to argue that kobe didnt have a supporting cast full of high school players.

Nash's team was easily better.

Switch nash and kobe and I guarantee you nash doesnt take them anywhere above 30 wins while kobe wins just as many if not more than nash.


And i dont think any player should win MVP if they dont play a lick of defense.

Bruno
07-19-2010, 04:15 PM
G......... Smush Parker
G......... Kobe Bryant
F......... Luke Walton
F......... Brian Cook
C......... Kwame Brown

This kind of lineup should never happen, but it did. It's too cruel.

Where are they now? Laker starters/6th man 2005-2006 edition.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

MickeyMgl
07-19-2010, 04:18 PM
You dont understand... Nash didnt have a Big Man, and look at the stats of Diaw, Bell, and Barbosa when they were Nashless, they were doing nothing like they were with Nash

I posted Bell's shooting percentages over his career showing that your claim is false. Barbosa has never played in the NBA without Nash, but in Brazil he was the Rookie of the Year in '02. In his 2nd season, he averaged 28.2 ppg and 7.0 apg. That ain't chopped liver anywhere, and certainly no indication that he was "nothing like he was with Nash".



Nash didnt have a "Stacked" team... He just makes his players better

He had a stacked team. There's at least as much evidence that Kobe made his crappy teammates better as there is for Nash.

MickeyMgl
07-19-2010, 04:33 PM
Don't see how people are saying 2003. The Lakers had two top 3 players in the league and only won 50 games. That same year the Spurs won 60 games with a rookie Parker and last season Robinson and even in the playoffs Duncan showed why he was MVP.

Except that Shaq missed a lot of time that season, while Kobe was 1st-team All-NBA and All-D (as were Duncan & Garnett). So at the very least, it was Kobe who led them to those 50 wins, posting averages that season of 30 pts, 7 rbs, 6 ast, and 2.2 stl. Those are MVP-caliber numbers.

MickeyMgl
07-19-2010, 04:43 PM
His team were the reasons they won those games(Mainly Game 4), They won 45 not 47, I think that George and Mihm were better than Cook, and Suns players wasnt that much better

Now it makes sense. You didn't watch, or don't remember that series. Mihm didn't play at all. He was gone midway through the season. George missed a lot of games, too. Granted, they were better with Mihm, which only means they lost a chance at a better record and a 5th seed when he got injured - which would've strengthened Kobe's MVP bid.

MickeyMgl
07-19-2010, 04:46 PM
Also I would say Pau Gasol deserves last year's Finals MVP award. (I don't like that award, it should be Playoffs MVP not Finals MVP).

I agree that it should be Playoff MVP, but note that it would have only made Kobe more deserving. As it stood, over the course of the series, either Kobe or Pau would have been a valid choice. Over the course of the playoffs, it was clearly Kobe.

evadatam5150
07-19-2010, 04:55 PM
Pretty laughable that you are trying to argue that kobe didnt have a supporting cast full of high school players.

Nash's team was easily better.

Switch nash and kobe and I guarantee you nash doesnt take them anywhere above 30 wins while kobe wins just as many if not more than nash.


And i dont think any player should win MVP if they dont play a lick of defense.

You can't argue with homers like this.. They're full of contradiction and will never admit it.. It's okay to say that Nash makes his teammates better yet there's no tangible proof of this (he's generally had good teams to work with) and no Championships to support this contention.. Kobe, during those seasons was the main offensive weapon on the Lakers as well as the main defensive force, playing both sides of the equation, you cannot say the same about Nash.. It's easy to forget this fact when your a homer and a hater..

Kobe Bryant has been named to the All Defense team 10 times in 14 seasons, 8 first team and 2 2nd teams.. Kobe was robbed both seasons Nash won the award and he was robbed due to negative public and professional perception by writers, fans and a league that was unsure of what to do about his image.. Nash is a fantastic basketball player but let's be honest about just why he won the MVP both those years.. Perhaps if Nash was a more rounded basketball player on both sides of the court then the Suns would have won a Championship or two..

RidgeRaider24
07-19-2010, 04:57 PM
kobe should have at least 2, def got robbed in 2006 when they gave it to steve nash, kobe was clearly the most valueable player of his team and the league

Minimal
07-19-2010, 05:09 PM
I already stated:
MVP award gets the player who drove his team to one of the best team records in a season.
70% of the time mvp award is won by the guy whose team had the best record in the season.
How could Kobe get MVP award in 2006 if Lakers only won 45 games that season, barely making playoffs with 7th seed?

Raidaz4Life
07-19-2010, 05:25 PM
I already stated:
MVP award gets the player who drove his team to one of the best team records in a season.
70% of the time mvp award is won by the guy whose team had the best record in the season.
How could Kobe get MVP award in 2006 if Lakers only won 45 games that season, barely making playoffs with 7th seed?

And thats why we are saying that is completely ridiculous. The award isn't called "best player on the best team" it's called "most valuable player" and if your team is already ridiculously stacked then you're really not any more valuable than a guy who took one of the worst supporting casts in NBA history to the playoffs.


Kobe had one of the most memorable seasons of the decade that year and led a team that would not have won 10 games without him to the playoffs. Kobe should not be penalized for playing on an awful team.

Minimal
07-19-2010, 05:44 PM
Kobe had one of the most memorable seasons of the decade that year and led a team that would not have won 10 games without him to the playoffs. Kobe should not be penalized for playing on an awful team.
He had only improved his PPG from 2005 season with 35.4, that was his only improved statistic thats why you think it was memorable.
LeBron James also played on awful team that season.
They both didn't get MVP award cause their team records weren't high enough.
2005-2006 season
Kobe Bryant - 35.4 PPG 5.3 RPG 4.5 APG
LeBron James - 31.4 PPG 7.0 RPG 6.6 APG
If to check statistics I would say LeBron wins, so if they both played on good teams Kobe prolly wouldn't get his mvp award still.
I agree that Kobe had a bad team, but that's the NBA. Kobe must be happy that he was traded to Lakers in 1996 and didn't need to play for Bobcats.

evadatam5150
07-19-2010, 05:51 PM
I already stated:
MVP award gets the player who drove his team to one of the best team records in a season.
70% of the time mvp award is won by the guy whose team had the best record in the season.
How could Kobe get MVP award in 2006 if Lakers only won 45 games that season, barely making playoffs with 7th seed?

And you are...??

The point is...?? And why do we care what you stated..?? All valid questions.. There is no solution here because really this will turn into a Kobe is overrated whilst Nash is not because he's a good guy and apparently Kobe isn't... Isn't that what we're really getting at here.. The MVP award is won by a single player and not an entire team.. The single player should be valuable play both sides of the ball and not be a liability on one side of it..

Enemey
07-19-2010, 05:59 PM
He had only improved his PPG from 2005 season with 35.4, that was his only improved statistic thats why you think it was memorable.
LeBron James also played on awful team that season.
They both didn't get MVP award cause their team records weren't high enough.
2005-2006 season
Kobe Bryant - 35.4 PPG 5.3 RPG 4.5 APG
LeBron James - 31.4 PPG 7.0 RPG 6.6 APG
If to check statistics I would say LeBron wins, so if they both played on good teams Kobe prolly wouldn't get his mvp award still.
I agree that Kobe had a bad team, but that's the NBA. Kobe must be happy that he was traded to Lakers in 1996 and didn't need to play for Bobcats.

It was the Hornets . Kobe played in the west which is 100x harder to get into a playoff then the west.

Raidaz4Life
07-19-2010, 06:03 PM
He had only improved his PPG from 2005 season with 35.4, that was his only improved statistic thats why you think it was memorable.
LeBron James also played on awful team that season.
They both didn't get MVP award cause their team records weren't high enough.
2005-2006 season
Kobe Bryant - 35.4 PPG 5.3 RPG 4.5 APG
LeBron James - 31.4 PPG 7.0 RPG 6.6 APG
If to check statistics I would say LeBron wins, so if they both played on good teams Kobe prolly wouldn't get his mvp award still.
I agree that Kobe had a bad team, but that's the NBA. Kobe must be happy that he was traded to Lakers in 1996 and didn't need to play for Bobcats.

Yes their stats are comparable but Kobe was also all defensive first team that year which to me set them apart considering he was more valuable on BOTH sides of the ball. And for the record I feel Lebron deserved it more than Nash that year as well.

numba1CHANGsta
07-19-2010, 06:05 PM
bottom line is this, Kobe had Shaq on the team so it would be hard for voters to vote for Kobe over Shaq, then kobe went through a 3 year drought where he was a two time scoring champion and scored 81 points in one game but wasnt enough because of the record of the team which was missing the playoffs in 05' and being a 7th seed in 06' and 07'. So playing alongside one of the most dominant players of all time and not having a strong record during his scoring years really hurt his chances, he did end up winning in 08' but didnt win in 09' or 10' because of the Cavs having a better record than them and Lebron having better statistics numbers. Kobe has a chance to win it next season and maybe even another one after that, with Lebron, Wade, and Bosh on the same team that eliminates them from winning it unless they win 70 games but i doubt it. So in reality all Kobe needs to do to win it next season is to finish with a better record than the Thunder and Magic because Dwight and Durant could be MVP contenders next season

HouRealCoach
07-19-2010, 06:09 PM
No you have yet to prove anything. I have more than proved that Nash's team was FAR superior to Kobe's. It's not even discussable. Nash's next 7 players were ALL better than each of Kobe's next 7 best players. I am still amazed that you think you can argue this. Just because they didn't have Amare doesn't mean they were a crappy team because imo he had one of the top 10 best supporting casts of the decade.

2002-2004 Kings
2000-2003 & 2008-2010 Lakers
2004-2007 Pistons
2007 Suns
2005 Suns
2008 Celtics
ANY of the Spurs squads
2006 Miami Heat
ANY of the Mavs squads

You GOT to be kidding... I know you guys have been agreeing with him but come on, This is possibly one of the worst things ever said

Minimal
07-19-2010, 06:18 PM
Next years mvp will prolly go to LeBron James again.
Because:
1. Heat will have best record in a season.
2. LeBron's statistics will become enormous.
LeBron James PPG will go down, but his APG and RPG will go up. Why?
PPG will go down, because he will take less shots per game.
APG will go up because he will be the main ballhandler in Miami Heat (there is a chance he will be a point guard) and he will be having a lot of guys around him who can have big percentage of finishing attacks after his passes. (Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, Mike Miller, Udonis Haslem and others).
RPG will go up because he will have a lot of energy to fight for rebounds. Having such teammates as Dwyane Wade will take some pressure of him and he will be able to produce decent numbers in defence. (RPG, BPG). There is a big chance that he will be the Defensive Player of the year next season.
All in all I give it a triple double in the season with 24 PPG 10REB and 11 AST.
It will be hard to deny LeBron's 3rd MVP award.
3. Durant's OKC will maximum have 4rd season record. It won't be enough for Durant to win an MVP award.
4. Kobe's and Wade's stats are nothing near LeBron's.
So I would say the biggest chance has LeBron at the next mvp award.

HouRealCoach
07-19-2010, 06:28 PM
And thats why we are saying that is completely ridiculous. The award isn't called "best player on the best team" it's called "most valuable player" and if your team is already ridiculously stacked then you're really not any more valuable than a guy who took one of the worst supporting casts in NBA history to the playoffs.


Kobe had one of the most memorable seasons of the decade that year and led a team that would not have won 10 games without him to the playoffs. Kobe should not be penalized for playing on an awful team.

Kobe only didnt have a stacked team for three seasons and didnt play in 05 so that rules out the season of 09 which u guys have pointed out... & obviously you dont know the definition of a stacked team... Like I said it couldve went either way but Nash is just my opinion

HouRealCoach
07-19-2010, 06:36 PM
& if you guys say Kobe deserved cause he carried a horrible team to the playoffs then he doesnt deserve his MVP award in 2008 because that team was stacked like hell from top to bottom... A player that didnt have a stacked team was Lebron... So basically you guys are saying that he didnt deserve it in 2008

Avenged
07-19-2010, 07:45 PM
Honestly the MVP is the most overhyped award ever... I've thought its been useless since the Lakers 3 peat in the early 2000's. It doesn't determine who the best player in the league is at all, and they give it out when the players haven't won anything. Same with the NFL, don't like how they do it... and lets get real MVPs mean nothing if you don't win it all. Wouldn't it be looked at as a kind of failure if your the leagues MVP and you don't win the championship, heck let alone make it to the Finals?

Its a flawed award, and its unfair to those people named the MVP. They'll have the pressure on their backs moreso to bring their team to the promised land. It's an award that should be given after everything is said and done.

It doesn't determine who's the best player at the time but it definitely has great importance when defining legacies. If you win an MVP award you're practically guaranteed a spot in HOF and it can be the deciding factor on which player is better if it's close.

Raidaz4Life
07-19-2010, 07:56 PM
& if you guys say Kobe deserved cause he carried a horrible team to the playoffs then he doesnt deserve his MVP award in 2008 because that team was stacked like hell from top to bottom... A player that didnt have a stacked team was Lebron... So basically you guys are saying that he didnt deserve it in 2008

I actually kind of agree that CP3 should have won it. Naturally I never would admit it though since I felt Kobe got jipped several times before.

Enemey
07-19-2010, 08:12 PM
2002-2004 Kings
2000-2003 & 2008-2010 Lakers
2004-2007 Pistons
2007 Suns
2005 Suns
2008 Celtics
ANY of the Spurs squads
2006 Miami Heat
ANY of the Mavs squads

You GOT to be kidding... I know you guys have been agreeing with him but come on, This is possibly one of the worst things ever said

Notice he said ONE of the top ten. And i would include 2005 and 2007 as the same as 2006. The Miami heat had Old washed up players it was only Wade and Shaq.

Enemey
07-19-2010, 08:21 PM
Next years mvp will prolly go to LeBron James again.
Because:
1. Heat will have best record in a season.
2. LeBron's statistics will become enormous.
LeBron James PPG will go down, but his APG and RPG will go up. Why?
PPG will go down, because he will take less shots per game.
APG will go up because he will be the main ballhandler in Miami Heat (there is a chance he will be a point guard) and he will be having a lot of guys around him who can have big percentage of finishing attacks after his passes. (Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, Mike Miller, Udonis Haslem and others).
RPG will go up because he will have a lot of energy to fight for rebounds. Having such teammates as Dwyane Wade will take some pressure of him and he will be able to produce decent numbers in defence. (RPG, BPG). There is a big chance that he will be the Defensive Player of the year next season.
All in all I give it a triple double in the season with 24 PPG 10REB and 11 AST.
It will be hard to deny LeBron's 3rd MVP award.
3. Durant's OKC will maximum have 4rd season record. It won't be enough for Durant to win an MVP award.
4. Kobe's and Wade's stats are nothing near LeBron's.
So I would say the biggest chance has LeBron at the next mvp award.

First Lebron James couldnt average a double digit Rbounds in Cavs when clearly he was their best rebounder so what makes you think he will get rebounds when he has players Like Bosh Haslem Anthony and wade ?

And the heat already said Arroyo will be their ball handler and James wont hog the ball 90% of the time to inflate his stats. His blocks will go down now that he is playing with dwayne wade, Haslem, and Anthony who is their defensive center. I think he would avg 24-7-7 his stats will go down.

And he wont get MVP because the same reason the Media told everyone in 2003 that Kobe Despite his 30-7-6 wont be winning MVP because he is playing with Shaq.

And think if the lakers get the Best record in the NBA Kobe will be MVP otherwise its Durant .

loveofthegame87
07-19-2010, 09:07 PM
If they had voted right Kobe would have had 2 mvps. He was suppose to get it in 06 and 07 when he was breaking records like nobodys business. Those two seasons you could cut on the tv and Kobe leading off sportscenter every night he played. When your stats are in the company of Wilt and MJ you suppose to get something. If he would have won those season CP3 most likely would have gotten it in 08.

Purple&Gold24
07-19-2010, 09:26 PM
3 mvps

MickeyMgl
07-20-2010, 01:31 AM
Kobe only didnt have a stacked team for three seasons and didnt play in 05 so that rules out the season of 09 which u guys have pointed out... & obviously you dont know the definition of a stacked team... Like I said it couldve went either way but Nash is just my opinion

When you lose your starting center - and 2nd or 3rd best player - for a large part of the season, your team is no longer "stacked".

MickeyMgl
07-20-2010, 01:34 AM
& if you guys say Kobe deserved cause he carried a horrible team to the playoffs then he doesnt deserve his MVP award in 2008 because that team was stacked like hell from top to bottom... A player that didnt have a stacked team was Lebron... So basically you guys are saying that he didnt deserve it in 2008

If you were right on this subject, it wouldn't be so difficult to "prove" your point. Bynum played 35 games that season. Gasol played 27 games with the Lakers. Not stacked.

Enemey
07-20-2010, 02:30 AM
If you were right on this subject, it wouldn't be so difficult to "prove" your point. Bynum played 35 games that season. Gasol played 27 games with the Lakers. Not stacked.

:clap::clap: I agree .

HouRealCoach
07-20-2010, 12:03 PM
If you were right on this subject, it wouldn't be so difficult to "prove" your point. Bynum played 35 games that season. Gasol played 27 games with the Lakers. Not stacked.

Fisher was there, Odom played better, Ariza was there, Sasha, Farmar, Walton, and Turiaf had all got better...

Gasol and Bynum played long enough

HouRealCoach
07-20-2010, 12:07 PM
When you lose your starting center - and 2nd or 3rd best player - for a large part of the season, your team is no longer "stacked".

NAsh lost AMare didnt he?... I guess that means nothing tho huh?

HouRealCoach
07-20-2010, 12:10 PM
Notice he said ONE of the top ten. And i would include 2005 and 2007 as the same as 2006. The Miami heat had Old washed up players it was only Wade and Shaq.

2005 and 2007 he had Amare so thats impossible and I named more then 10 team teams

It was numerous teams in the last decade better than that 2006 Suns squad

HouRealCoach
07-20-2010, 12:45 PM
If you were right on this subject, it wouldn't be so difficult to "prove" your point. Bynum played 35 games that season. Gasol played 27 games with the Lakers. Not stacked.

Not to mention they were 46-16 with Bynum or Gasol in the lineup and only 11-9 without one of them... Seems like without those two Lakers STILL wasnt much of a good team

The Raven
07-20-2010, 12:49 PM
Nash should give one of his MVP's to Kobe. didnt deserve both

Lakers211221
07-20-2010, 01:04 PM
It depends...if the MVP is used to determine who the best player in the league like it should be since Jordan supporters always go to MVPs in the Jordan v. Kobe argument...then Kobe should have several because he has been the best player in the league for quite some time now, but almost every year I hear sports writers (with votes) say, "Kobe is the best player, but not the most valuable player"

MickeyMgl
07-20-2010, 03:52 PM
Fisher was there

:laugh:



Odom played better


Hmmmm...... "better".... but not because of Kobe?



Ariza was there


:)
He played in 24 games. And he belongs in the category of players Kobe "made better", doesn't he?... 'cause what'd he do before and after? Nothing. Definitely not stacked.

This "proving" business isn't as easy as it looks, is it?



Sasha, Farmar, Walton, and Turiaf had all got better...


:)
Wait, which is the point you're proving again? That they were "stacked", or that they "all got better" playing with Kobe?



Gasol and Bynum played long enough


:laugh2:
If you say so. Let's just get that straight. Gasol and Bynum - the Lakers' starting PF and C - played 27 and 35 games, respectively. And you say that's "long enough".

Do you know they play 82 games?

MickeyMgl
07-20-2010, 03:55 PM
NAsh lost AMare didnt he?... I guess that means nothing tho huh?

Boris Diaw >>>> Kwame Brown

MickeyMgl
07-20-2010, 03:58 PM
It depends...if the MVP is used to determine who the best player in the league like it should be since Jordan supporters always go to MVPs in the Jordan v. Kobe argument...then Kobe should have several because he has been the best player in the league for quite some time now, but almost every year I hear sports writers (with votes) say, "Kobe is the best player, but not the most valuable player"

They create a moving target, because the criteria seems to change from year to year. They come up with a whole lot of convoluted questions, like "Who is most valuable player to HIS team?" when there really is no need to overthink it that way. It doesn't say "MVP to HIS team", so just assume the question is "Who is the most valuable player to ANY team?", then it becomes simple and clear, and Kobe would have been the answer more than once.

djlamer
07-20-2010, 07:58 PM
as long as you are not on top of the standings you will never win a regular season MVP and that is the sad truth. so even if you did make your team much better but not be a top 1-2 seed(as kobe did from 2005-2007), then you won't win MVP, thats just the way it is. having said that, i do think that kobe should have won at least 1 of the last 2 mvps.

amos1er
07-20-2010, 08:26 PM
They create a moving target, because the criteria seems to change from year to year. They come up with a whole lot of convoluted questions, like "Who is most valuable player to HIS team?" when there really is no need to overthink it that way. It doesn't say "MVP to HIS team", so just assume the question is "Who is the most valuable player to ANY team?", then it becomes simple and clear, and Kobe would have been the answer more than once.

Great post. The MVP award should be who is the most valuable player in the LEAGUE!!! Not this nonsense about who is the most valuable to their team. They do change the criteria for who the MVP is based on who the media wants to honor that particular year. Kobe has been shafted quite a few times a a result. In 2006 it was a complete sham that Kobe didn't win...let alone the amount of first place votes that he got compared to Nash was an even bigger slap to the face. Certain jealous and hateful members of the media even leave Kobe off their ballots altogether. These ignoramus's should lose their rights to vote for being such haters. Kobe does deserves atleast two MVP's and there are two where it was debatable

One in 2008 which he got.

One in 2006 where he was the victim of the biggest MVP robbing in NBA history.

2009 was debatable.

2003 was debatable.

MickeyMgl
07-20-2010, 08:50 PM
as long as you are not on top of the standings you will never win a regular season MVP and that is the sad truth. so even if you did make your team much better but not be a top 1-2 seed(as kobe did from 2005-2007), then you won't win MVP, thats just the way it is.

Would you like a list of MVPs that didn't come from top 1-2 seeds? It has happened, after all. So there's no reason that this thinking has to be perpetuated, since there's no rule that says it has to be that way, and in fact, it hasn't always been that way.

djlamer
07-21-2010, 03:43 AM
Would you like a list of MVPs that didn't come from top 1-2 seeds? It has happened, after all. So there's no reason that this thinking has to be perpetuated, since there's no rule that says it has to be that way, and in fact, it hasn't always been that way.

i would like a list of those. from recent history( i mean like the last decade or 2) most regular season mvps have been on top seeded teams. i don't remember the last time a player from a team below 2nd seed has won the mvp title.
if you could tell me that would be great.
as far as i remember, its been nash, duncan, kobe, lebron, shaq, jordan, malone, dirk, etc. all at the top of their conferences or close to it.

i'm not saying its a written law, its just a trend that i noticed.

MickeyMgl
07-21-2010, 04:57 AM
i would like a list of those. from recent history( i mean like the last decade or 2) most regular season mvps have been on top seeded teams. i don't remember the last time a player from a team below 2nd seed has won the mvp title.
if you could tell me that would be great.

As you state below, it's definitely a trend, but it has happened. The last one was K. Malone in '99. Before that, Michael Jordan in '88, M. Malone in '82, Julius Erving in '81, M. Malone in '79... anyway, it continues to be more frequent as you go back. You get the idea.

This is just something people made up in the past 10-15 years. It doesn't make it an absolute rule, and it doesn't make it right.



as far as i remember, its been nash, duncan, kobe, lebron, shaq, jordan, malone, dirk, etc. all at the top of their conferences or close to it.

i'm not saying its a written law, its just a trend that i noticed.

You're right to call it a "trend", but the way you stated it before characterized it as an absolute. It makes a big difference, because voters are free to go against trends.

djlamer
07-23-2010, 09:32 PM
As you state below, it's definitely a trend, but it has happened. The last one was K. Malone in '99. Before that, Michael Jordan in '88, M. Malone in '82, Julius Erving in '81, M. Malone in '79... anyway, it continues to be more frequent as you go back. You get the idea.

This is just something people made up in the past 10-15 years. It doesn't make it an absolute rule, and it doesn't make it right.



You're right to call it a "trend", but the way you stated it before characterized it as an absolute. It makes a big difference, because voters are free to go against trends.
thanks for the info. sorry for the misrepresentation.
fyi, malone's utah in '99 tied for the best record in the nba
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998%E2%80%9399_NBA_season

also, since the 1980 season, mvp voting was switched to writers and broadcasters instead of players getting to vote. i think thats why the trend has changed to players on top teams usually getting the MVP. maybe we should switch it back to players, afterall, don't they know best. they do play with these guys day in day out. writers and broadcasters seem very bias to me.

LakerPro24
07-24-2010, 02:17 AM
6 MVP's