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View Full Version : Breaking News: Al Jefferson traded to the Jazz for 2 1st round picks and a TPE



JordansBulls
07-13-2010, 02:11 PM
http://twitter.com/SpearsNBAYahoo/status/18452999790




Wolves to trade Jefferson to Jazz for future 1st rd pick, 1st rd pick from Mem in Brewer trade and a trade exception, Y! Sports has learned.

tdunk21
07-13-2010, 02:12 PM
wow

Chacarron
07-13-2010, 02:13 PM
Good deal for Minny.

hugepatsfan
07-13-2010, 02:14 PM
Great move for the Jazz. Kahn strikes again!!! (jk - this is a decent deal for him too)

Swashcuff
07-13-2010, 02:14 PM
Good move. Glad to see Deron will be getting some help.Hopefully Al could take his offensive/rebounding game to all-star levels. They still need a C though. Won't be legit contenders with Al/Okur playing C.

kozelkid
07-13-2010, 02:14 PM
Interesting. I personally think Al Jefferson is super overrated and is a black hole. However, if any team can change that it's the Utah Jazz with Sloan and Deron.

Raidaz4Life
07-13-2010, 02:14 PM
Great move for both sides.

LTBaByyy
07-13-2010, 02:15 PM
Millsap can never get a break lol

I know hes gonna play the 5 but when okur is healthy jefferson will get a lot of playing time at the 4 too!! he will be the starting 5 and back up 4, bc okur will sub in millsap a lot

mikantsass
07-13-2010, 02:15 PM
DWill and Big Al are a nice 1-2 combo. Good job replacing Booze and getting younger. Al and Milsap are going to be a beast combo on the glass.

Weezy
07-13-2010, 02:15 PM
Smooth Deal.

kozelkid
07-13-2010, 02:15 PM
Good move. Glad to see Deron will be getting some help.Hopefully Al could take his offensive/rebounding game to all-star levels. They still need a C though. Won't be legit contenders with Al/Okur playing C.

Which is going to be interesting. Jefferson can't play a lick of d but is also too slow as a pf. Sadly there aren't many pf's out their who could be a defensive anchor. The only player that comes to mind is Varejao. Of course their spacing would suck, but that's another story.

roshan3ai
07-13-2010, 02:15 PM
Good trade for both. Gives DWill an all-star caliber big now that Boozer went to Chi-Town

thesparky33
07-13-2010, 02:16 PM
Good deal for Minny.

That post gave WSU Tony an orgasm.

Cullksinikers
07-13-2010, 02:16 PM
Somehow, after losing at least Boozer and Korver, the Jazz somewhat recovered.

Swashcuff
07-13-2010, 02:17 PM
Millsap can never get a break lol

I know hes gonna play the 5 but when okur is healthy jefferson will get a lot of playing time at the 4 too!! he will be the starting 5 and back up 4, bc okur will sub in millsap a lot

If Milsap performs to his potential and takes full advantage of Okur's absence he may indeed get his break.

LTBaByyy
07-13-2010, 02:21 PM
If Milsap performs to his potential and takes full advantage of Okur's absence he may indeed get his break.

Your def right! Im just saying shouldnt they have tried to trade for a SG like Hamilton or better

They have no SG right now unless they match that HUGEEEE contract with mathews

drama1386
07-13-2010, 02:21 PM
good trade for both teams.

CaptainStu5
07-13-2010, 02:21 PM
Good deal for the Wolves, gives them a ton of flexibility and opens up the PF spot for Love/Beasley.
Good deal for the Jazz too, even though I don't like Al Jeff and don't think he can play center, they got him for next to nothing.

VCaintdead17
07-13-2010, 02:22 PM
Offensively, Jefferson and Okur will work wonderfully i think.

gbpackers12
07-13-2010, 02:23 PM
Good for the Jazz. Not a bad deal for Minnesota either.

Jays Claw
07-13-2010, 02:23 PM
Didn't the Jazz promise Paul Millsap a starting spot after Carlos Boozer left?

S-Dot
07-13-2010, 02:23 PM
Somehow, after losing at least Boozer and Korver, the Jazz somewhat recovered.

I agree, and it was a pretty decent move for Minnesota. Also the Jazz still have AK's expiring contract if I'm not mistaken. They may be able to make some moves with that.

They defintely are doing what they can to keep Deron happy after losing Boozer and Korver. I respect that.

losbreezy
07-13-2010, 02:25 PM
If he knew Jefferson would be traded, he should of drafted Cousins at #4.

zambo4president
07-13-2010, 02:25 PM
Nice for Utah. We know Minny is gonna **** up those picks anyways. Who's scoring for Utah though? They have the best PG, and 3 quality bigs, but nothing else really. C.J. Miles isn't gonna carry them.

Swashcuff
07-13-2010, 02:30 PM
Which is going to be interesting. Jefferson can't play a lick of d but is also too slow as a pf. Sadly there aren't many pf's out their who could be a defensive anchor. The only player that comes to mind is Varejao. Of course their spacing would suck, but that's another story.

despite his defensive woes he's still a quality scorer and is a legit 20 and 10 man. He's basically A younger longer less skilled version of Big Booz for them.

markbutter
07-13-2010, 02:31 PM
until okur comes back, I see a crowded paint. millsap/AlJeff/Kesenko. Okur can open up the paint for Aljeff, and against some teams, Millsap might even be able to play the 3 with Kerilenko at the 2. That's a huge lineup.

But they still need a shooter and I don't think Mathews is it.

Swashcuff
07-13-2010, 02:32 PM
Your def right! Im just saying shouldnt they have tried to trade for a SG like Hamilton or better

They have no SG right now unless they match that HUGEEEE contract with mathews

Damn str8. My sentiments exactly. Like you reading my posts from earlier threads

bucc4life
07-13-2010, 02:32 PM
two 1st round piks and more cap space im koo with that

xbrackattackx
07-13-2010, 02:32 PM
I like this deal alot.

nikeking711
07-13-2010, 02:32 PM
Great trade for both teams.

Utah- Gets a nice post presence, due to the absence of Boozer.

Min- Salary dump. No need for Jefferson due to having both Beasley and Love.

Wisdom Listens
07-13-2010, 02:37 PM
Good deal for the Wolves, gives them a ton of flexibility and opens up the PF spot for Love/Beasley.

Thank you. It's good to see NBA fans who know their stuff.

Wisdom Listens
07-13-2010, 02:39 PM
If he knew Jefferson would be traded, he should of drafted Cousins at #4.

Wrong. They were already planning on signing Pekovic and Milicic at that point.

Wisdom Listens
07-13-2010, 02:41 PM
Nice for Utah. We know Minny is gonna **** up those picks anyways.

Classy.

jaded01
07-13-2010, 02:41 PM
Good move. Glad to see Deron will be getting some help.Hopefully Al could take his offensive/rebounding game to all-star levels. They still need a C though. Won't be legit contenders with Al/Okur playing C.

if i were the jazz id see if i could trade okur for gortat. and then work from there

AI4MVP
07-13-2010, 02:42 PM
great deal both ways

PLAYERS FAN
07-13-2010, 02:42 PM
This guaranteed the Jazz a playoff spot.

fadedmario
07-13-2010, 02:43 PM
Great deal both ways

Tony_Starks
07-13-2010, 02:44 PM
Great move for the Jazz! They've dealt with the FA losses and continue to keep a competitive team.

For Minny ehhh what can I say? Like the earlier poster said if they were hell bent on dumping Jefferson Cousins would've been a perfect grab for them. A Cousins/ Love/ B Easy front court would've been a very nice young core.

Wisdom Listens
07-13-2010, 02:47 PM
Great move for the Jazz! They've dealt with the FA losses and continue to keep a competitive team.

For Minny ehhh what can I say? Like the earlier poster said if they were hell bent on dumping Jefferson Cousins would've been a perfect grab for them. A Cousins/ Love/ B Easy front court would've been a very nice young core.

Wrong. They were already planning on signing Pekovic and Milicic at this point. And to elaborate even further, even if Kahn knew for sure they were going to trade Jefferson, which he didn't, getting an athletic wing player with an outside shot was still their biggest need. Enter Johnson.

Mochalman
07-13-2010, 02:48 PM
good trade for the jazz

CountSackula
07-13-2010, 02:51 PM
Great move for Utah, I look forward to seeing how AJ and Williams mesh on O.

MrBigShotBWill
07-13-2010, 02:54 PM
Both deals are good Minny just keeps stock piling 1st rounders. I guess they remember the JOE SMITH B/S HAHA.

Anyway Jazz got Jefferson if he is healthy they have def one of the top 3 Post players in the game. Maybe the best. He would make those PF jump out of there seats and look silly.

He was just in Minny and no one cared now with a playoff Jazz team this should be good!

what54!?
07-13-2010, 02:55 PM
great deal on both sides. the wolves get love or beasley a starting spot and the jazz replace boozer. they're back in the hunt

S-Dot
07-13-2010, 02:57 PM
great deal on both sides. the wolves get love or beasley a starting spot and the jazz replace boozer. they're back in the hunt

They still need some scoring on the wing before they're in the real HUNT. they're playoff material for sure though.

IversonIsKrazy
07-13-2010, 03:00 PM
Wait, Memphis gave up a first round for a Brewer trade Exception?? How does that link to this trade??

Tony_Starks
07-13-2010, 03:02 PM
Wrong. They were already planning on signing Pekovic and Milicic at this point. And to elaborate even further, even if Kahn knew for sure they were going to trade Jefferson, which he didn't, getting an athletic wing player with an outside shot was still their biggest need. Enter Johnson.



I totally get that they were signing Darko already, Kahn made that known as soon as the season was over. But I beg to differ about Jefferson. From the interviews I heard w/ Kahn prior to the draft on espn and nbaTV he was publicly saying he was very open to trading Jefferson this summer. It was no big secret.

Now the X factor is Beasley. You could argue that Im sure he didn't know Beasley would fall into his lap, who can be used as a 3 or 4. Fair enough. But knowing Jefferson would most likely be gone I think Cousins would've been a great replacement IMO...

But who knows Im not familiar with Johnson, he could very well be the man. But so far Cousins has looked pretty impressive.

kozelkid
07-13-2010, 03:03 PM
despite his defensive woes he's still a quality scorer and is a legit 20 and 10 man. He's basically A younger longer less skilled version of Big Booz for them.

He isn't at all like Boozer. Boozer is very good at running the floor. Jefferson isn't. He also isn't as good in the pick and roll so either he's going to have to learn it or Utah is going to completely have to change their philosophy. And after 20 years, I doubt Sloan will stop the pick and roll game. Jefferson has got a lot to work on though.
If Jefferson is like anyone it's Zach Randolph before Randolph went through that change, with a worse jumpshot but better post game.

It was a good move for Minnesota though. They HAD to get rid of Jefferson. He wasn't helping them. And with little interest, they got rid of him and got 2 picks to boot (which will likely be wasted, but that's besides the point). Looks like Minnesota can finally have a roster more suitable for Rubio if he comes.

Wisdom Listens
07-13-2010, 03:09 PM
I totally get that they were signing Darko already, Kahn made that known as soon as the season was over. But I beg to differ about Jefferson. From the interviews I heard w/ Kahn prior to the draft on espn and nbaTV he was publicly saying he was very open to trading Jefferson this summer. It was no big secret.

Yes he was open to hearing offers for Jefferson, but that doesn't mean it was ever a sure thing. He also said numerous times they wouldn't trade Al just to trade him, that the right offer had to come along, and that's where Utah comes in.


Now the X factor is Beasley. You could argue that Im sure he didn't know Beasley would fall into his lap, who can be used as a 3 or 4. Fair enough. But knowing Jefferson would most likely be gone I think Cousins would've been a great replacement IMO.

Really Favors would have made much more sense, but I'm sure the Wolves would have been fine with just Love and Pekovic. It wasn't worth trading up for Favors when we had the chance to draft a player in Johnson who filled a need for us.

Hellcrooner
07-13-2010, 03:11 PM
so jazz rop boozerto not overpay since neither him or millsap can really deffend centers.....
and gets another undersized center overpayed tht plays no d.....

Hawkeye15
07-13-2010, 03:11 PM
basically, here is what Kahn has done in a snapshot in the past two weeks

Big Al and two second-round draft picks for Michael Beasley, two first-round picks and that big trade exception, which can be used in the next year to take back a player with a contract as much as $13 million without having to give back any salaries in return

Swashcuff
07-13-2010, 03:13 PM
He isn't at all like Boozer. Boozer is very good at running the floor. Jefferson isn't. He also isn't as good in the pick and roll so either he's going to have to learn it or Utah is going to completely have to change their philosophy. And after 20 years, I doubt Sloan will stop the pick and roll game. Jefferson has got a lot to work on though.
If Jefferson is like anyone it's Zach Randolph before Randolph went through that change, with a worse jumpshot but better post game.

It was a good move for Minnesota though. They HAD to get rid of Jefferson. He wasn't helping them. And with little interest, they got rid of him and got 2 picks to boot (which will likely be wasted, but that's besides the point). Looks like Minnesota can finally have a roster more suitable for Rubio if he comes.

I was not comparing them or saying their respective games are similar. I was saying that he can play that role of being their inside scorer/ leading rebounder.

Hawkeye15
07-13-2010, 03:15 PM
Utah can expect 19/10 out of Big Al next season I would expect

NBAfan4life
07-13-2010, 03:18 PM
I dont like the deal unless we use the trade exception. Utah's picks will be pretty high same with memphis IMO. If we use that trade exception in the future it could be a good deal, but if we just let it expire i personally dont care for it.

I seem to be in the minority on this, but honestly I hope it works out and it has the potential to.

zambo4president
07-13-2010, 03:28 PM
Classy.

I'm not here to get on my knees and respect you and the Timberwolves. It's true based on recent pick history.

h2r09
07-13-2010, 03:31 PM
minnesota is just plain stupid. you win in the nba with a great frontcourt. Love and jefferson is an amazing and young front court. you build around that, not late first round picks and darko milicic. just stupid, stupid move right here. they will regret this move in a few years.

JordansBulls
07-13-2010, 03:32 PM
Does Al start at PF and Okur at C or does Millsap start at PF and Al at C

Wisdom Listens
07-13-2010, 03:32 PM
I'm not here to get on my knees and respect you and the Timberwolves. It's true based on recent pick history.

It's yet to be seen with our recent pick history. And being respectful has nothing to do with "getting on your knees", it's a common courtesy.

Wisdom Listens
07-13-2010, 03:35 PM
minnesota is just plain stupid. you win in the nba with a great frontcourt. Love and jefferson is an amazing and young front court.

So is Love and Beasley. Plus, now they have $13 million in extra cap space and 2 first round picks to play around with. I fail to see the stupidity in this move.

ldc62
07-13-2010, 03:35 PM
Good move by Kahn.

deebee3330
07-13-2010, 03:37 PM
Bad move they need a center and another wing. Milsap got paid last year and proves he can produce when given the minutes. They can't get past the lakers without size.

kozelkid
07-13-2010, 03:37 PM
Utah can expect 19/10 out of Big Al next season I would expect

Wouldn't be surprised. The real questions are how efficiently he gets those 19 points and how much passing and defending can we expect from him.


minnesota is just plain stupid. you win in the nba with a great frontcourt. Love and jefferson is an amazing and young front court. you build around that, not late first round picks and darko milicic. just stupid, stupid move right here. they will regret this move in a few years.

No they aren't. You win with great frontcourts THAT PLAY DEFENSE. They don't. It was a good move.

Raoul Duke
07-13-2010, 03:39 PM
I dont like the deal unless we use the trade exception. Utah's picks will be pretty high same with memphis IMO. If we use that trade exception in the future it could be a good deal, but if we just let it expire i personally dont care for it.

I seem to be in the minority on this, but honestly I hope it works out and it has the potential to.

I agree completely. In retrospect, I think I've been too hard on Kahn. I'm going to stop talking smack about him for a year or so and see what he can do. When you step back and look at his team, they have an impressive amount of youth, atleticism, talent and resources.

h2r09
07-13-2010, 03:40 PM
Wouldn't be surprised. The real questions are how efficiently he gets those 19 points and how much passing and defending can we expect from him.



No they aren't. You win with great frontcourts THAT PLAY DEFENSE. They don't. It was a good move.

kevin love plays defense. you still dont trade a young big guy like jefferson that can play like him wehn hes healthy for just 2 late first round picks and a trade exception.

Swashcuff
07-13-2010, 03:42 PM
kevin love plays defense. you still dont trade a young big guy like jefferson that can play like him wehn hes healthy for just 2 late first round picks and a trade exception.

you do if you are David Kahn

Wisdom Listens
07-13-2010, 03:42 PM
I agree completely. In retrospect, I think I've been too hard on Kahn. I'm going to stop talking smack about him for a year or so and see what he can do. When you step back and look at his team, they have an impressive amount of youth, atleticism, talent and resources.

If you compare this team to what it looked like in 2008-09, when Kahn took over, it's even more impressive.



Thanks to Hawkeye: Link (http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/98330709.html?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUoaEyqyP4O:DW3ckUiD 3aPc:_Yyc:aUgOy9cP3DieyckcUsI)

JayHunter
07-13-2010, 03:43 PM
they are paying a lot of money for their front court

Wisdom Listens
07-13-2010, 03:46 PM
you do if you are David Kahn

You really think he would've made this move if they didn't already have Love, Beasley, Milicic, and Pekovic in their frontcourt?

h2r09
07-13-2010, 03:47 PM
You really think he would've made this move if they didn't already have Love, Beasley, Milicic, and Pekovic in their frontcourt?

i would take jefferson over almost every player there, so yes.

DITKA IS DRIVIN
07-13-2010, 03:51 PM
BOOZER > JEFFERSON

GO BULLS :clap:

Wisdom Listens
07-13-2010, 03:51 PM
i would take jefferson over almost every player there, so yes.

You obviously don't understand the situation. Rambis and Jefferson were never on the same page. He didn't fit into our system.

If you include Beasley, this is essentially what the Jefferson trade will look like.

Wolves Get:
16th Pick
26th Pick
$13 Million in Cap Space
Michael Beasley

Wolves Give:
2nd Round Pick
Al Jefferson


Yeah, Kahn is a moron. :rolleyes:

TEXASTITAN
07-13-2010, 03:52 PM
What a joke!!

TEXASTITAN
07-13-2010, 03:53 PM
He's not worth 2 first rounders WTF has the world come to jeez unbelieveable.

Ware_Spencer
07-13-2010, 03:56 PM
BOOZER > JEFFERSON

GO BULLS :clap:

You are going to be disappointed in Boozer coming this year. He needs someone to create offense for him. And I am not sure Rose is a patient enough player to run the pick and roll yet. It really comes down to Rose more than Boozer. And I just don't see Rose making that adjustment.

Boozer will for sure not look as bad as a defender next to Noah. Noah and Boozer are perfect for each other. But Boozer's scoring will take a dip if Rose does not learn to give Boozer the ball in a good position.
If Rose plays out of control and just hands the ball to Boozer if he can't score than the Bulls will fail offensively. Boozer does not create his own shot very well.
I am actually pulling for Rose to become that patient and deceptive point guard. But he hasn't shown any promise yet but he also hasn't had a pick and roll player until now. Hopefully they show him video of the great point guards in the league (D-Will, Paul, Nash). Because Rose is more athletic than all of those players. He just needs the fundamentals of being a point guard.

If Rose learns to be patient and use his quickness and speed correctly than the Bulls are easily contenders in my opinion. Until Rose learns that they are about the 5th seed in the east.

h2r09
07-13-2010, 03:57 PM
You obviously don't understand the situation. Rambis and Jefferson were never on the same page. He didn't fit into our system.

If you include Beasley, this is essentially what the Jefferson trade will look like.

Wolves Get:
16th Pick
26th Pick
$13 Million in Cap Space
Michael Beasley

Wolves Give:
2nd Round Pick
Al Jefferson


Yeah, Kahn is a moron. :rolleyes:

you cant just include random other trades. this trade he lost and was just stupid to do a salry cap dump with a player of jefferson's abilities.

before this year, his past 2 years he had 21 and 11. there were only 2 players who did that this year. you got 2 average players with those first rounders while giving up a great young big man signed for a while. Beasley sucks btw. you'll grow tired of his crap in 1 month.

greek miami hea
07-13-2010, 03:59 PM
good moves for both teams

Draco
07-13-2010, 04:01 PM
Nice. I would have preferred the Bulls try to get Al for his shorter contract and I have to wonder if the Bulls wouldn't have done that if they weren't trying to entice Lebron. Thanks Lebron.

Wisdom Listens
07-13-2010, 04:02 PM
you cant just include random other trades. this trade he lost and was just stupid to do a salry cap dump with a player of jefferson's abilities.

You presume to know more than a Wolves fan about the Wolves financial personnel situation and fail to address my points, so look below.


Beasley sucks

You're fired from this conversation.

Mplsman
07-13-2010, 04:02 PM
Good deal for Minny.

That post gave WSU Tony an orgasm.

haah :laugh2:

h2r09
07-13-2010, 04:04 PM
You presume to know more than a Wolves fan about the Wolves financial personnel situation and fail to address my points, so look below.



You're fired from this conversation.

you honestly think beasley is going to be anything in this league? he is awful on defense, is not aggressive at all on offense and cant contribute off the ball, and is an idiot off the ball which is why dwyane wanted him gone.

Sixerlover
07-13-2010, 04:05 PM
Lets see what Love / Beasley do with those minutes now before we judge this trade

kozelkid
07-13-2010, 04:06 PM
kevin love plays defense. you still dont trade a young big guy like jefferson that can play like him wehn hes healthy for just 2 late first round picks and a trade exception.

Love sucks on defense. Both are bad.
Mainly cause both are incredibly slow and neither are explosive. Maybe he can become a good defender. Right now he isn't.

I gotta say, I kinda like what Minnesota is doing. They won't likely win a title anytime soon. But if Rubio comes next year, that team is going to be so ****ing fun to watch. They'll be the new Suns.

Hawkeye15
07-13-2010, 04:07 PM
some educated posters on this thread.
Kahn is either smarter than everyone else, or just thinks he is.
Time will tell

I love the last two weeks, and what he has done. I will continue to post this, what Kahn has done in the past two weeks:

Big Al and two second-round draft picks for Michael Beasley, two first-round picks and that big trade exception, which can be used in the next year to take back a player with a contract as much as $13 million without having to give back any salaries in return

kozelkid
07-13-2010, 04:08 PM
You are going to be disappointed in Boozer coming this year. He needs someone to create offense for him. And I am not sure Rose is a patient enough player to run the pick and roll yet. It really comes down to Rose more than Boozer. And I just don't see Rose making that adjustment.

Boozer will for sure not look as bad as a defender next to Noah. Noah and Boozer are perfect for each other. But Boozer's scoring will take a dip if Rose does not learn to give Boozer the ball in a good position.
If Rose plays out of control and just hands the ball to Boozer if he can't score than the Bulls will fail offensively. Boozer does not create his own shot very well.
I am actually pulling for Rose to become that patient and deceptive point guard. But he hasn't shown any promise yet but he also hasn't had a pick and roll player until now. Hopefully they show him video of the great point guards in the league (D-Will, Paul, Nash). Because Rose is more athletic than all of those players. He just needs the fundamentals of being a point guard.

If Rose learns to be patient and use his quickness and speed correctly than the Bulls are easily contenders in my opinion. Until Rose learns that they are about the 5th seed in the east.

Good analysis. I think you underrate Rose a little, but still good. And this is from a Bulls fan.
With that said, I think they are a top 4 seed for sure mainly cause barring any injury, they should be able to win their division.

kozelkid
07-13-2010, 04:09 PM
Nice. I would have preferred the Bulls try to get Al for his shorter contract and I have to wonder if the Bulls wouldn't have done that if they weren't trying to entice Lebron. Thanks Lebron.

Boozer is better than Al Jefferson at just about every facet. And while Jefferson is younger, this guy has had A LOT of toll on his legs. Seems very unpredictable.

Ware_Spencer
07-13-2010, 04:21 PM
Boozer is better than Al Jefferson at just about every facet. And while Jefferson is younger, this guy has had A LOT of toll on his legs. Seems very unpredictable.

I see how some people think Boozer is better than Jefferson but I disagree. Jefferson has never had a guy passing him the ball. And Jefferson has longer wingspan and is taller. Jefferson is also better in the low post than Boozer and Jefferson is also a better defender. Trust me I have watched Boozer and Jefferson play a lot. Neither are good defenders but Jefferson is better (not much though).

Boozer is a craftier scorer though (left hand and slashing) and has better range on his shot. Rebounds I would say are about a tie. Boozer is a better team player and passes better and Jefferson is more of a black hole.

I would say its closer to a tie than anything. I think Jefferson is a WAY WAY a better fit for the Jazz than Boozer with there current roster. Its no brainer for Utah. I think the bulls got a good player for Rose and Noah though.

If I was Utah I would take Jefferson over Boozer any day. But other teams I would also understand why you would take Boozer over Jefferson.

Utah has questions marks also whether or not Jefferson can run the pick and roll. Nobody really knows because he hasn't had a point guard. but either way Millsap can run the pick and roll and Jefferson can stay in the low block at a worse case scenario. Jefferson is an upgrade on defense over Boozer and Okur. So Jazz are improved and Bulls are improved. Can't argue that.

Lo Porto
07-13-2010, 04:27 PM
If Boozer can play C for Utah against the Lakers and the Jazz are in all 4 games with 4 minutes left, imagine the difference a true PF/C will make. And if you say Al Jefferson can't play D, you must have never seen Boozer play.

The Jazz still have some work to do (match on Wes Matthews and get another bench center), but they have as good or better a young team than any other team out there including OKC.

Draco
07-13-2010, 04:34 PM
Boozer is better than Al Jefferson at just about every facet. And while Jefferson is younger, this guy has had A LOT of toll on his legs. Seems very unpredictable.

I agree but I don't think we'll ever go all the way with Boozer. I'd rather have a shorter contract for a more flexable cap and a chance to get a better FA.. one who might be tired of watching LeDouche dominate the league.

Lo Porto
07-13-2010, 04:35 PM
I see how some people think Boozer is better than Jefferson but I disagree. Jefferson has never had a guy passing him the ball. And Jefferson has longer wingspan and is taller. Jefferson is also better in the low post than Boozer and Jefferson is also a better defender. Trust me I have watched Boozer and Jefferson play a lot. Neither are good defenders but Jefferson is better (not much though).

Boozer is a craftier scorer though (left hand and slashing) and has better range on his shot. Rebounds I would say are about a tie. Boozer is a better team player and passes better and Jefferson is more of a black hole.

I would say its closer to a tie than anything. I think Jefferson is a WAY WAY a better fit for the Jazz than Boozer with there current roster. Its no brainer for Utah. I think the bulls got a good player for Rose and Noah though.

If I was Utah I would take Jefferson over Boozer any day. But other teams I would also understand why you would take Boozer over Jefferson.

Utah has questions marks also whether or not Jefferson can run the pick and roll. Nobody really knows because he hasn't had a point guard. but either way Millsap can run the pick and roll and Jefferson can stay in the low block at a worse case scenario. Jefferson is an upgrade on defense over Boozer and Okur. So Jazz are improved and Bulls are improved. Can't argue that.

Great analysis Ware. This is good stuff.

As a Jazz fan, I know that we have had two great undersized PF's the last few years with Boozer and Millsap. Undersized is the reason we've lost in the playoffs 3 straight years to the bigger and longer Lakers. Jefferson fit more of a need than Boozer. Boozer is the better offensive player by a little and Jefferson is the better defender by a little. As time goes by and Okur moves on, Jefferson will become the Jazz center. 6'10" and 265 is plenty big for a center in this league. Millsap is a good defender so that we'll help the Jazz starting team defense.

WSU Tony
07-13-2010, 04:36 PM
o face.

Hawkeye15
07-13-2010, 04:38 PM
Great analysis Ware. This is good stuff.

As a Jazz fan, I know that we have had two great undersized PF's the last few years with Boozer and Millsap. Undersized is the reason we've lost in the playoffs 3 straight years to the bigger and longer Lakers. Jefferson fit more of a need than Boozer. Boozer is the better offensive player by a little and Jefferson is the better defender by a little. As time goes by and Okur moves on, Jefferson will become the Jazz center. 6'10" and 265 is plenty big for a center in this league. Millsap is a good defender so that we'll help the Jazz starting team defense.

if you play Jefferson as your full time center, you are 2nd round road kill at best

iam brett favre
07-13-2010, 04:39 PM
deron williams, GORDON HAYWARD, al jefferson :drool:

Hawkeye15
07-13-2010, 04:42 PM
Congrats Jazz fans. If anything, this is going to win you some games so Deron doesn't think about leaving

Dallas Tx4Life
07-13-2010, 04:45 PM
really happy dwill isnt gonna have to do this all alone again.... still arent contenders just yet tho

Nighthawk
07-13-2010, 04:46 PM
Whats Minnestoa's starting lineup?

Darko
Love
Beasley
Wes Johnson
Flynn

Nice young up and coming team right there.

Jefferson will be a wonderful addition for the Jazz. D-Will will get him some nice buckets

Lo Porto
07-13-2010, 04:47 PM
if you play Jefferson as your full time center, you are 2nd round road kill at best

No offense, but this is the best roster Jefferson has ever been on. If Boozer can help beat the Nuggets playing center, I'm sure that Jefferson can do most of the same things but actually provide more size. Utah still has work to do, but this should be a great fit.

For Minny, it's a great money dump and the picks are nice. However, both picks are at least top 9 protected.

SNYmets86
07-13-2010, 04:50 PM
pretty nice deal for both teams... but damn just hope al stays healthy cuz he normally stay injured....

OA SLAY
07-13-2010, 04:50 PM
Nice good move

SpeeMN
07-13-2010, 04:58 PM
I'm going to say this

Big Al's Defense in slightly underrated.
I watched many games and went to a home game against the Hawks, and from what I saw Kevin Love would get very small on defense, and Hollins is an absolute joke. Mindless. I think Al isn't a liability on Defense as much as people think.

I also am not saying he's a beast on Defense. But he's 25.

Tony_Starks
07-13-2010, 04:58 PM
basically, here is what Kahn has done in a snapshot in the past two weeks

Big Al and two second-round draft picks for Michael Beasley, two first-round picks and that big trade exception, which can be used in the next year to take back a player with a contract as much as $13 million without having to give back any salaries in return



Well as you know I think Kahn has been royally screwing up all over the place over his brief tenure. However Im no hater and must admit striking while the iron was hot on B Easy was a shrewd move.

The draft picks are damn near a liability with his draft history, but that trade exception is a pretty big deal I must say assuming they put it to good use.

At the end of the day they'll definitely field a better team this year thats for sure, if I'm a Minny fan I would definitely hope that they scrap the triangle though. I think a princeton style offense suits their personel a bit better.....

kozelkid
07-13-2010, 05:00 PM
I agree but I don't think we'll ever go all the way with Boozer. I'd rather have a shorter contract for a more flexable cap and a chance to get a better FA.. one who might be tired of watching LeDouche dominate the league.

There really wasn't any other choice. If Miami can actually work this out, there will be many teams that won't win for the next 5 years.


I see how some people think Boozer is better than Jefferson but I disagree. Jefferson has never had a guy passing him the ball. And Jefferson has longer wingspan and is taller. Jefferson is also better in the low post than Boozer and Jefferson is also a better defender. Trust me I have watched Boozer and Jefferson play a lot. Neither are good defenders but Jefferson is better (not much though).

Jefferson isn't better. He's one of the worst defenders in the league. The only face where Jefferson might be better is as a low post defender. But in a league where we see less and less post play and more and more transition play, Jefferson is very out of place and likely a liability.



Boozer is a craftier scorer though (left hand and slashing) and has better range on his shot. Rebounds I would say are about a tie. Boozer is a better team player and passes better and Jefferson is more of a black hole.


Completely agreed.



I would say its closer to a tie than anything. I think Jefferson is a WAY WAY a better fit for the Jazz than Boozer with there current roster. Its no brainer for Utah. I think the bulls got a good player for Rose and Noah though.


I definitely disagree. Jefferson is not a pick and roll player, Boozer is one of the best pick and roll players. It may eventually work out. But thus far, Boozer is the better fit.


If I was Utah I would take Jefferson over Boozer any day. But other teams I would also understand why you would take Boozer over Jefferson.

Utah had to get rid of Boozer regardless. That doesn't make Jefferson the answer. But Utah HAD to make this move. If they didn't, they'd pretty much enter NBA hell. It's a big risk, and maybe it will work out.



Utah has questions marks also whether or not Jefferson can run the pick and roll. Nobody really knows because he hasn't had a point guard. but either way Millsap can run the pick and roll and Jefferson can stay in the low block at a worse case scenario. Jefferson is an upgrade on defense over Boozer and Okur. So Jazz are improved and Bulls are improved. Can't argue that.

I think a Jefferon-Millsap duo might be one of the worst defensive frontcourts in the league. This have so many question marks. They are in a flux. You got Deron who is better off in transition and pick and roll. And Millsap and AJ, two halfcourt defenders who are a liability defensively.
I think the next move Utah should make is trade Millsap for Varejao for some defense. That way AJ can still play center.

Hawkeye15
07-13-2010, 05:06 PM
No offense, but this is the best roster Jefferson has ever been on. If Boozer can help beat the Nuggets playing center, I'm sure that Jefferson can do most of the same things but actually provide more size. Utah still has work to do, but this should be a great fit.

For Minny, it's a great money dump and the picks are nice. However, both picks are at least top 9 protected.

It has nothing to do with the talent. Will it help that Jefferson doesn't have to deal with wings who aren't even turned due to his inept perimeter players not even turning them? Sure. But he is going to get worked defensively against the big teams. In the regular season, he may be able to be masked in the scheme of 82 games. But against the Lakers for example, Jefferson will not be able to play center defensively.
It can all be solved by getting an active defender for cheap, like Chris Anderson type. I am simply saying, Jefferson can not be your full time center

Ware_Spencer
07-13-2010, 05:28 PM
There really wasn't any other choice. If Miami can actually work this out, there will be many teams that won't win for the next 5 years.



Jefferson isn't better. He's one of the worst defenders in the league. The only face where Jefferson might be better is as a low post defender. But in a league where we see less and less post play and more and more transition play, Jefferson is very out of place and likely a liability.




Completely agreed.



I definitely disagree. Jefferson is not a pick and roll player, Boozer is one of the best pick and roll players. It may eventually work out. But thus far, Boozer is the better fit.



Utah had to get rid of Boozer regardless. That doesn't make Jefferson the answer. But Utah HAD to make this move. If they didn't, they'd pretty much enter NBA hell. It's a big risk, and maybe it will work out.



I think a Jefferon-Millsap duo might be one of the worst defensive frontcourts in the league. This have so many question marks. They are in a flux. You got Deron who is better off in transition and pick and roll. And Millsap and AJ, two halfcourt defenders who are a liability defensively.
I think the next move Utah should make is trade Millsap for Varejao for some defense. That way AJ can still play center.

Your wrong about him being the worst defender in the league. Boozer is worse. I know you have your Bulls goggles on but that is far from the truth. Boozer has people shoot over him all the time and he has no lateral quickness. Jefferson doesn't have much lateral quickness but his length makes up for that.
In league where low post play isn't as important? Who just wont the Championship? Lakers.......hmmmm Gasol and Bynum? Low post play? Not sure where your getting this.

Your right. Boozer is a better pick and roll player but Jefferson has never had a point guard. So you can't say he is horrible yet. Not proven yes.
Boozer is not a better fit. Jefferson can play Center way better than Boozer. Jefferson/Millsap>>Boozer/Millsap. Jefferson complements Millsap more because of his size. That is a no brainer.
You haven't seen Boozer play enough is what I am getting from this. Boozer falls apart when playing long front courts. Jefferson's numbers haven't dropped off he is more consistent. Boozer puts up big numbers against small teams.

Jefferson is not the answer. I never said he was. But he is the best option the Jazz have. The Jazz never offered Boozer a huge deal according to sources. Jazz obviously our on my side.

You think Jefferson Millsap is the worst defensive front court in the league? You have no idea what you are talking about. You must be from the east coast and never watched the Jazz much.
Jefferson/Millsap>>Okur/Boozer on defense. Every Jazz fan knows Millsap is a better defender. And Every Jazz fan knows Jefferson is an upgrade over Okur on defense. The Jazz have improved defensively. And to think differently is insane. To question whether not not he will work offensively makes sense. But defensively Boozer and Okur are soft and have no help defense or man to man defense. Its not even debatable.

Jazz were one of the best defensive teams during the Stockton Malone era. Its because they had someone like Ostertag protecting the paint. Millsap and Jefferson at least will try to protect the paint and give effort. Boozer and Okur moved out of the way multiple times or gave 3 point plays away. If you don't know that than you never watched the Jazz play.
Noah is one of the best defensive Centers in the league. Boozer is one of the worst defensive PF's in the league. Millsap is better at defense than Boozer. Anyone knows this. And Jefferson is better at defense than Okur. If you think different than you don't understand basketball or you haven't watched the Jazz play enough.
Jazz are a better team now. Talk to any Jazz fan. 80-90 percent think the same. We know our players a lot better than most. Jazz are never on TV.

kozelkid
07-13-2010, 05:51 PM
Your wrong about him being the worst defender in the league. Boozer is worse. I know you have your Bulls goggles on but that is far from the truth. Boozer has people shoot over him all the time and he has no lateral quickness. Jefferson doesn't have much lateral quickness but his length makes up for that.

Jefferson is a better weakside defender, but he's too slow. You can say Bulls goggles all you want. I've seen my share of Boozer and Al Jefferson. Both are bad defenders but at least Boozer can somewhat defend in transition. Jefferson can't, at all.


In league where low post play isn't as important? Who just wont the Championship? Lakers.......hmmmm Gasol and Bynum? Low post play? Not sure where your getting this.

It's important. But with it you need great defense. Jefferson is a bad defender.


Your right. Boozer is a better pick and roll player but Jefferson has never had a point guard. So you can't say he is horrible yet. Not proven yes.

I'll give you that. Which is why I said it was a risk they had to take.



Boozer is not a better fit. Jefferson can play Center way better than Boozer. Jefferson/Millsap>>Boozer/Millsap. Jefferson complements Millsap more because of his size. That is a no brainer.

Neither are good fits with Millsap and Millsap needs to be moved if they plan to run with Jefferson.


You haven't seen Boozer play enough is what I am getting from this. Boozer falls apart when playing long front courts. Jefferson's numbers haven't dropped off he is more consistent. Boozer puts up big numbers against small teams.

Boozer also has Okur to thank for that. With a guy like Noah, it will be easier for Boozer.


Jefferson is not the answer. I never said he was. But he is the best option the Jazz have. The Jazz never offered Boozer a huge deal according to sources. Jazz obviously our on my side.

No disagreements ehre.


You think Jefferson Millsap is the worst defensive front court in the league? You have no idea what you are talking about. You must be from the east coast and never watched the Jazz much.
Jefferson/Millsap>>Okur/Boozer on defense.

Both sucked defensively. I don't know why you assumed I said one is worse than the other when I didn't even say anything about Okur.


Every Jazz fan knows Millsap is a better defender.


Than Boozer? Where did I disagree about that?


And Every Jazz fan knows Jefferson is an upgrade over Okur on defense.

Where did I disagree?


The Jazz have improved defensively. And to think differently is insane. To question whether not not he will work offensively makes sense. But defensively Boozer and Okur are soft and have no help defense or man to man defense. Its not even debatable.

Between Boozer and Millsap vs Millsap and AJ? Doubtful.
I just forgot to include Okur for some reason.


Jazz were one of the best defensive teams during the Stockton Malone era. Its because they had someone like Ostertag protecting the paint. Millsap and Jefferson at least will try to protect the paint and give effort. Boozer and Okur moved out of the way multiple times or gave 3 point plays away. If you don't know that than you never watched the Jazz play.


You have great defense because of your team. Okur alone will kill it. Boozer isn't a good defender, I agree, but a guy like Okur makes him worse than he is. And the Bulls will help him.


Noah is one of the best defensive Centers in the league.

Not yet. But he will soon be under Thibodeau's tutelage.


Boozer is one of the worst defensive PF's in the league.

Amare, Bargnani for one disagree. Once again, Boozer is mediocre, he isn't one of the worst. And playing with a good defender will show you that. He's bad weakside, he isn't that bad at low post.


Millsap is better at defense than Boozer. Anyone knows this.

Never disagree.


And Jefferson is better at defense than Okur.

I'm a little confused why you think Okur will all of a sudden disappear.

futureman
07-13-2010, 06:01 PM
This deal isn't finalized yet, but If the Jazz end up keeping Ante Tomics rights, Al Jefferson at Center will only be for one season.

Ware_Spencer
07-13-2010, 06:42 PM
Jefferson is a better weakside defender, but he's too slow. You can say Bulls goggles all you want. I've seen my share of Boozer and Al Jefferson. Both are bad defenders but at least Boozer can somewhat defend in transition. Jefferson can't, at all.

Boozer cannot guard in transition. HA HA That is sad to even think that. He is called the matador amongst us Jazz fans on defense for a reason.



It's important. But with it you need great defense. Jefferson is a bad defender.

Yes its important but Jazz aren't contenders anyways. They are improved defensively now though. So we improved in low post scoring and defense. Boozer is a overrated post player. He can't shoot over the bigs and he received most of his points slashing to the hoop off pick and rolls and mid range shots. That is not a post game. He would never back anyone down. Anybody with eyes sees that.


I'll give you that. Which is why I said it was a risk they had to take.

Neither are good fits with Millsap and Millsap needs to be moved if they plan to run with Jefferson.

Utah Jazz are not a running team. We are balanced. Half court and run when we get a chance. How many times did you see Boozer on the fast break? none. He always was trailing. Same with Okur. Okur is slower than Jefferson. Your reasoning for saying Jefferson not working does not make sense. Millsap is barely smaller than Boozer. Millsap is more athletic and more aggressive so he makes up for it. They are good fits with Millsap. If you think Millsap is not a good fit than 90 percent of the teams have front courts that don't work.


Boozer also has Okur to thank for that. With a guy like Noah, it will be easier for Boozer.

Agreed

Both sucked defensively. I don't know why you assumed I said one is worse than the other when I didn't even say anything about Okur.

You said that the Jazz would have the worst defensive front court in the league....... I am sorry but if we improve defensively at the PF and C position from last year how are we the worst defensive front court? That is why I included Okur. Because if we improve at both positions how are we the worst still? Makes no sense.

Between Boozer and Millsap vs Millsap and AJ? Doubtful.
I just forgot to include Okur for some reason.

You have great defense because of your team. Okur alone will kill it. Boozer isn't a good defender, I agree, but a guy like Okur makes him worse than he is. And the Bulls will help him.

Okur is a better man to man defender than Boozer. Boozer is bad at man to man and help defense. Both are horrible but Okur at least bodies up and has length to stop a few players.



Not yet. But he will soon be under Thibodeau's tutelage.

Amare, Bargnani for one disagree. Once again, Boozer is mediocre, he isn't one of the worst. And playing with a good defender will show you that. He's bad weakside, he isn't that bad at low post.

Boozer is not a mediocre defender. That is laughable. He gets burnt by the quicker PF's and he can't stop the longer PF's. Boozer is by far one of the worst defenders. He holds his ground I will give him that. But Gasol and Odom have there way with him EVERY SINGLE GAME. We can't have Boozer guard anyone. Its sad. We tried to play him on the bigger and smaller front court players. But you will learn in time how bad he is defensively. Once you see Boozer give 3 point plays and lay ups over and over you will see. Noah can't guard 2 players at once. You will see what I am talking about during the season. You will change your mind.

Never disagree.

I'm a little confused why you think Okur will all of a sudden disappear.

I never said Okur will disappear. Most of my comments are towards your comment about the Jazz being the worst defensive front court. Jefferson gives us versatility at the PF and C position. Boozer can only play 1 position. Jefferson isn't ideal for the Center but the average Center height is 6-10 so i am not worried. We got into the second round without Okur and with AK not being healthy. Jefferson is longer and more athletic than Okur and is better on offense. Our center position has improved and Defensively Millsap is better than Boozer. And we were already a legit playoff team. And the west got worse over the summer.

bigsams50
07-13-2010, 06:45 PM
Nice trade for the Jazz. Jefferson should be beast with Deron

Ware_Spencer
07-13-2010, 07:00 PM
By the way everyone who thinks Boozer is a better post player than Jefferson.

"56% of Jefferson's possessions came on post ups last year, compare that to Boozer who had 21% of his possessions on postups."

http://twitter.com/lockedonsports

David Locke is really good with numbers and he always checks out. That is how he built his career. So i think its legit.

Ware_Spencer
07-13-2010, 07:02 PM
David Locke on Jefferson's defense.

http://www.nba.com/jazz/features/locked_on_jazz.html


One of the questions about Al Jefferson is if he can defend? I have on numerous occasions on 1320, K-Fan talked about him as a poor defender for his position.

However, today I talked to three scouts who all told me he is at least average. All pointed out that he blocks shots and rebounds.

The most common refrain from the scouts and coaches was that he is just 25 years old and over the past years he has been playing on miserable teams. It is most commonly at this point in a players career that he improves defensively.

One scout specifically mentioned that two years ago with Kevin McHale he had made great strides defensively and then last year entered the year in not as good of shape coming off the ACL and struggled, but the improvement over the last three seasons is noticeable.

In addition, one of the most underrated aspects of defense is rebounding. It doesnít matter how well you defend if you donít clear the glass and he does that very well.

I hate to go here because Carlos Boozer was never able to avoid the Karl Malone comparisions however, all three of the scouts or coaches I talked today mentioned they thought he was a better defender than Carlos.

He is longer, bigger and blocks more shots.

For the first time in his career Jefferson could be playing for a team where every possession is magnified. How he reacts to that will determine everything.

JordansBulls
07-13-2010, 07:14 PM
By the way everyone who thinks Boozer is a better post player than Jefferson.

"56% of Jefferson's possessions came on post ups last year, compare that to Boozer who had 21% of his possessions on postups."

http://twitter.com/lockedonsports

David Locke is really good with numbers and he always checks out. That is how he built his career. So i think its legit.
Boozer is much better than Al. Boozer plays well in the playoffs. Al has never even made the playoffs and even worse yet has never been close. Hell he even played with Pierce and they only won 24 games. Al is the type of guy who gets good numbers on bad teams and who puts up empty stats.

DerekRE_3
07-13-2010, 07:16 PM
Boozer is much better than Al. Boozer plays well in the playoffs. Al has never even made the playoffs and even worse yet has never been close. Hell he even played with Pierce and they only won 24 games. Al is the type of guy who gets good numbers on bad teams and who puts up empty stats.

It wasn't Jefferson's fault that his teams have never made the playoffs. And it can be a lot harder to be the best player on a bad team. The whole defense knows all they have to do is stop you and it's over.

bigsams50
07-13-2010, 07:17 PM
Boozer got to play with a much better team than Al ever has. The playoff argument is invalid here

Verbal Christ
07-13-2010, 07:18 PM
how long does big al have left on the contract? thats how long he'll be in salt lake. likewise for deron.

arkanian215
07-13-2010, 07:20 PM
So in the end... KG for a bunch of exprings and three pretty low first round picks.

Ware_Spencer
07-13-2010, 07:22 PM
Boozer is much better than Al. Boozer plays well in the playoffs. Al has never even made the playoffs and even worse yet has never been close. Hell he even played with Pierce and they only won 24 games. Al is the type of guy who gets good numbers on bad teams and who puts up empty stats.

Boozer is not much better. Maybe equal but Jefferson is better in the areas the Jazz need.

By the way Pierced missed half of that year they won 24 games. So your little stat means nothing.

And of course once Jefferson went to the Wolves they sent him with all the players he lost with. So how were they suppose to be better? And Mchale and Kahn have not given him a Point guard or complementary players around him. He has had no structure either. Playing in different offenses every year and different players.

The Jazz are exactly what he needs. And he will flourish with a real system and structure and playing within a real offense.

JordansBulls
07-13-2010, 07:54 PM
Boozer got to play with a much better team than Al ever has. The playoff argument is invalid here

Jazz went from 41-41 to 51-31 when Boozer was healthy. As soon as the C's traded Al Jefferson they went from 24 wins to 66 wins.

DerekRE_3
07-13-2010, 07:55 PM
Jazz went from 41-41 to 51-31 when Boozer was healthy. As soon as the C's traded Al Jefferson they went from 24 wins to 66 wins.

Yeah and that had nothing to do with getting Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett, as well as the emergence of Rajon Rondo, and Paul Pierce being healthy for more than half the season.

JordansBulls
07-13-2010, 07:57 PM
Yeah and that had nothing to do with getting Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett, as well as the emergence of Rajon Rondo.

Allen and Garnett had to do a lot with it, but the rest of the team was the same. Getting Allen and Garnett shouldn't increases a record by 42 games. Rondo didn't really emerge that year, he emerged in 2009.

Swashcuff
07-13-2010, 07:58 PM
Jazz went from 41-41 to 51-31 when Boozer was healthy. As soon as the C's traded Al Jefferson they went from 24 wins to 66 wins.

JB you really sounding bitter these days dude... are you ok?

jimbobjarree
07-13-2010, 08:14 PM
Boozer is much better than Al. Boozer plays well in the playoffs. Al has never even made the playoffs and even worse yet has never been close. Hell he even played with Pierce and they only won 24 games. Al is the type of guy who gets good numbers on bad teams and who puts up empty stats.

if anyone ever put up empty stats its Boozer. Seriously dude, he hasnt even played for your team yet. Give it till December and you'll probably be as frustrated as we were after 6 years with Boozer already. He's a type of guy you never really figure out, you'll never warm to him as fans and whilst yes he hits some tough shots and is very talented on offense, especialy with his mid range J, you'll end up being more frustrated than satisfied over the course of his contract. Him taking games off with sore obliques to only be magically re-healed for the playoffs, or being injured for 4 months with an injury that should have only been 1 month at worst.

Seriously dude, I know your all excited with having him, like we are with Al, but you know nothing about what its like to have him on your team yet.

and lol Boozer plays well in the playoffs...what did he average, 15 and 7 against the Lakers in one of the most pathetic showings by an allstar/team leader ever. Seriously, type that to a Laker fan and watch him laugh in your face lol.

back on Al Jefferson. I'm really excited about this move. It looked like our offseason was heading nowehre, and then we replace Boozer with a bigger, younger player who is probably the only guy in the league with more talent in the post. I cant wait to see him hook up with D-Will. Completely turned our offseason around.

Wisdom Listens
07-13-2010, 08:14 PM
So in the end... KG for a bunch of exprings and three pretty low first round picks.

You also have to take into account what came from the other players and draft picks we got from Boston.

Ware_Spencer
07-13-2010, 09:17 PM
Allen and Garnett had to do a lot with it, but the rest of the team was the same. Getting Allen and Garnett shouldn't increases a record by 42 games. Rondo didn't really emerge that year, he emerged in 2009.

You need to stop. You are wrong in so many ways.

Paul Pierce was gone for half the year when you said he was there........

Garnet, Allen were not there Delonte West was playing over Rondo.

Again your wrong the team was not the same. It was completely different. They traded away half the team to the Wolves with Jefferson. And traded Delonte West to the Sonics for Ray Allen. It wasn't even close to the same team. Jefferson also played with those same losers in Minnesota. So he obviously has not been given a chance yet. He only played with 1 all-star for not even half a year.

Also another thing is Paul Pierce played a lot in the beginning and got injured around the same time Al Jefferson was given a chance. So they didn't play together that much.

Wolves got most of the players in that trade that were in the regular rotation in Boston for that 24 win season.

Give Jefferson a break. This will be the first time he gets to play with a winning team.

I do see your point that Jefferson has not put up big numbers on a winning team. That is obvious. But Boozer has not played without a pass first point guard. Besides in Cleveland. Which he only scored 15 points per game. But I am not going to judge on that. It was his 2nd year. But if Rose doesn't become pass first Boozer will only average 16 points per game.

Swashcuff
07-13-2010, 09:21 PM
You need to stop. You are wrong in so many ways.

Paul Pierce was gone for half the year when you said he was there........

Garnet, Allen were not there Delonte West was playing over Rondo.

Again your wrong the team was not the same. It was completely different. They traded away half the team to the Wolves with Jefferson. And traded Delonte West to the Sonics for Ray Allen. It wasn't even close to the same team. Jefferson also played with those same losers in Minnesota. So he obviously has not been given a chance yet. He only played with 1 all-star for not even half of a year.

Also another thing is Paul Pierce played a lot in the beginning and got injured around the same time Al Jefferson was given a chance. So they didn't play together that much.

Wolves got most of the players in that trade that were in the regular rotation in Boston for that 24 win season.

Give Jefferson a break. This will be the first time he gets to play with a winning team.

I do see your point that Jefferson has not put up big numbers on a winning team. That is obvious. But Boozer has not played without a pass first point guard. Besides in Cleveland. Which he only scored 15 points per game. But I am not going to judge on that. It as his 2nd year. But if Rose doesn't become pass first Boozer will only average 16 points per game.

great post

DerekRE_3
07-13-2010, 10:37 PM
Allen and Garnett had to do a lot with it, but the rest of the team was the same. Getting Allen and Garnett shouldn't increases a record by 42 games. Rondo didn't really emerge that year, he emerged in 2009.

Players aren't allowed to improve? Kendrick Perkins and Rajon Rondo really stepped up their games. For the 15th time, Paul Pierce was healthy all year after the trade (he wasn't the year before), and they brought in one of the best PF's to ever play the game that completely changed the culture of the team. This post just proves that you don't know a thing about the game of basketball. You can't just look a team's record, see they did better, and then say "Oh, well this guy isn't there anymore, I guess he was the reason for their lack of success." Especially when that same team brought in a hall of famer and and an all star, along with the improvement of some of their younger players.

Bruno
07-13-2010, 10:48 PM
This is starting to make sense to me now. I didn't get why they wanted to move Jefferson, but I think this is a good trade after reading some of Hawkeyes posts, explaining why.

thesparky33
07-13-2010, 11:50 PM
o face.
I knew you'd come. ;)

Jazz went from 41-41 to 51-31 when Boozer was healthy. As soon as the C's traded Al Jefferson they went from 24 wins to 66 wins.
So, if the Jazz have a better record than the Bulls, then will Jefferson be better than Boozer?

titanchased
07-13-2010, 11:54 PM
Great move for the Jazz. Jefferson will be great with Williams to set him up.

SANDBURG23
07-14-2010, 12:00 AM
Is Minnesota ever going to be good.

X12Celtics3
07-14-2010, 12:04 AM
I'm really glad for Jefferson. He is my second favorite player behind Rondo, and he'll finally get a chance to play on a decent team. I'll be rooting for him, except when playing Boston of course.

PlezPlayDKnicks
07-14-2010, 12:24 AM
Is Minnesota ever going to be good.

Yup.. As soon as they get rid of Khan for Pritchard.. Tell me what Wolves fan wouldnt rather that... Khan is too smart. He see's moves that nobody else can see 4 years into the future every draft. But I wil give him credit on this last trade. Gettin rid of Al was a smart move. Dont want his stock gettin any lower.

JOSKOMANG4
07-14-2010, 12:24 AM
C) A.Jefferson
PF) Millsap
SF) AK47
SG) W.Matthews
PG) D.Williams

Bench:

C/PF M.Okur
C K.Koufus
C K.Fesenko
SF G.Hayward(rookie)
SG CJ Miles
PG R.Price
PF J.Evans(rookie)

Ware_Spencer
07-14-2010, 12:32 AM
C) A.Jefferson
PF) Millsap
SF) AK47
SG) W.Matthews
PG) D.Williams

Bench:

C/PF M.Okur
C K.Koufus
C K.Fesenko
SF G.Hayward(rookie)
SG CJ Miles
PG R.Price
PF J.Evans(rookie)

Koufos is apart of the trade. Not on the team anymore. And Matthews might not be back.

JordansBulls
07-14-2010, 01:09 AM
Another thing I'd like to point out. The Twolves won 32 games the year before Al got there, and his first year they won 22 games and then 24 games.

jimbobjarree
07-14-2010, 01:11 AM
Another thing I'd like to point out. The Twolves won 32 games the year before Al got there, and his first year they won 22 games and then 24 games.

:facepalm: seriously, you wanna dig a deeper hole for yourself lol?

he was 22 trying to fill in for their franchise guy Kevin Garnett, who was still in his prime...you seriously thought they'd win more games?

JordansBulls
07-14-2010, 01:16 AM
:facepalm: seriously, you wanna dig a deeper hole for yourself lol?

he was 22 trying to fill in for their franchise guy Kevin Garnett, who was still in his prime...you seriously thought they'd win more games?

They got a bunch of guys for Garnett, it wasn't just Al Jefferson.

Mplsman
07-14-2010, 01:28 AM
^All of which are no longer apart of this team.

toronto_JazzFan
07-14-2010, 01:40 AM
Jefferson is a better weakside defender, but he's too slow. You can say Bulls goggles all you want. I've seen my share of Boozer and Al Jefferson. Both are bad defenders but at least Boozer can somewhat defend in transition. Jefferson can't, at all.



It's important. But with it you need great defense. Jefferson is a bad defender.



I'll give you that. Which is why I said it was a risk they had to take.



Neither are good fits with Millsap and Millsap needs to be moved if they plan to run with Jefferson.



Boozer also has Okur to thank for that. With a guy like Noah, it will be easier for Boozer.



No disagreements ehre.



Both sucked defensively. I don't know why you assumed I said one is worse than the other when I didn't even say anything about Okur.



Than Boozer? Where did I disagree about that?


Where did I disagree?



Between Boozer and Millsap vs Millsap and AJ? Doubtful.
I just forgot to include Okur for some reason.



You have great defense because of your team. Okur alone will kill it. Boozer isn't a good defender, I agree, but a guy like Okur makes him worse than he is. And the Bulls will help him.



Not yet. But he will soon be under Thibodeau's tutelage.



Amare, Bargnani for one disagree. Once again, Boozer is mediocre, he isn't one of the worst. And playing with a good defender will show you that. He's bad weakside, he isn't that bad at low post.


Never disagree.



I'm a little confused why you think Okur will all of a sudden disappear.

This guy Kozelkid doesnt know anything about the jazz arguing with this guy is pointless because hes a homer he doesnt want boozer to look bad cuz the bulls just signed him

Punkindrublic03
07-14-2010, 01:53 AM
Wow Jordanbulls. just wow.

shep33
07-14-2010, 02:02 AM
Good move, but one that doesn't really make them any better than last year. The Jazz are one player away from being great though, they need like a scoring sg or sf who can give them 16-20 ppg.

Ware_Spencer
07-14-2010, 02:06 AM
Good move, but one that doesn't really make them any better than last year. The Jazz are one player away from being great though, they need like a scoring sg or sf who can give them 16-20 ppg.

Not possible to get a player like that right now. And with Deron being our go to scorer or 2nd scorer no way that happens anyways. If the Jazz can get a dynamic player like Shannon Brown they will be better. Scoring has never been a problem for us. Its defense.

Jazz are better now because a 3 man rotation of Jefferson, Millsap & Okur is better than Boozer, Millsap & Okur. Just for the reason that Boozer & Millsap were undersized. Jefferson gives the jazz more length and a post scorer which Boozer was not. Better defense also according to multiple NBA scouts.

shep33
07-14-2010, 02:15 AM
Not possible to get a player like that right now. And with Deron being our go to scorer or 2nd scorer no way that happens anyways. If the Jazz can get a dynamic player like Shannon Brown they will be better. Scoring has never been a problem for us. Its defense.

Jazz are better now because a 3 man rotation of Jefferson, Millsap & Okur is better than Boozer, Millsap & Okur. Just for the reason that Boozer & Millsap were undersized. Jefferson gives the jazz more length and a post scorer which Boozer was not. Better defense also according to multiple NBA scouts.

Yeah, you make a good point, he's bigger than Booze, and yeah defense is an issue too. I don't like that Korver left, I liked him on your team, spread the floor thats for sure.

Only question I have about Jefferson is how he's going to play with Millsap. I think he'll eventually get it, but he struggled a lot when Love came into Minni. His numbers also dropped last year just b/c he didn't' really fit in the triangle, he'll have a better year with the Jazz. Still don't know if it makes them significantly better, especially with them losing Korver too. Still, a team with Dwill, Millsap, Jefferson, and a Healthy Okur is pretty decent... deep frontline.

Ware_Spencer
07-14-2010, 02:26 AM
Yeah, you make a good point, he's bigger than Booze, and yeah defense is an issue too. I don't like that Korver left, I liked him on your team, spread the floor thats for sure.

Only question I have about Jefferson is how he's going to play with Millsap. I think he'll eventually get it, but he struggled a lot when Love came into Minni. His numbers also dropped last year just b/c he didn't' really fit in the triangle, he'll have a better year with the Jazz. Still don't know if it makes them significantly better, especially with them losing Korver too. Still, a team with Dwill, Millsap, Jefferson, and a Healthy Okur is pretty decent... deep frontline.

To be honest Korver was way overrated for the jazz. He could only shoot the 3. And we could barely play him because of his lateral quickness problems. And his age is catching up to him now. And he is injury prone. Would rather have guys who are decent from 3 rather than amazing and actually be versatile and can play defense. CJ Miles & Hayward will stretch the floor and Okur off the bench will also. And we might still match Matthews if not Shannon Brown is rumored who is not good from the 3 but he is better than Brewer who we had before.

JordansBulls
07-14-2010, 07:55 AM
Wow Jordanbulls. just wow.

:confused:

97NYer
07-14-2010, 08:13 AM
So now Minny just has to find time for Beasley/Love at the 4. Since they LOVE Darko.

Flynn/Sessions
Brewer/Ellington
Wesley Johnson/L. Hayward
Love/Beasley
Darko/Hollins

97NYer
07-14-2010, 08:14 AM
So now Minny just has to find time for Beasley/Love at the 4. Since they LOVE Darko.

Flynn/Sessions
Brewer/Ellington
Wesley Johnson/L. Hayward
Love/Beasley
Darko/Hollins

Martell Webster also.

JordansBulls
07-14-2010, 11:54 AM
So now Minny just has to find time for Beasley/Love at the 4. Since they LOVE Darko.

Flynn/Sessions
Brewer/Ellington
Wesley Johnson/L. Hayward
Love/Beasley
Darko/Hollins

How many wins would that team get?

scutch11
07-14-2010, 11:58 AM
great move for the Jazz, they needed to do something to negate losing boozer, and i actually believe that big al and millsap will work together better than boozer and millsap. you know deron is gonna get the most out of both of them and this team should prbably be a playoff team again.

the t'wolves on the other hand...i dont see how this team wins 20 games this year...

D-Will4Prez
07-14-2010, 12:26 PM
Does Al start at PF and Okur at C or does Millsap start at PF and Al at C

This season we had a 3-man cycle rotation of Boozer/Okur/Millsap, each getting around 30minutes per game, I think the same thing happens with Millsap/Jefferson/Okur but for the start of the season at least I think Millsap starts at PF and Jefferson at C to give Okur more rest coming off of his injury.

JordansBulls
07-14-2010, 01:32 PM
This season we had a 3-man cycle rotation of Boozer/Okur/Millsap, each getting around 30minutes per game, I think the same thing happens with Millsap/Jefferson/Okur but for the start of the season at least I think Millsap starts at PF and Jefferson at C to give Okur more rest coming off of his injury.

I think when playing the Lakers though, the team would be better off starting Millsap and Jefferson to nullify them in the paint.

toronto_JazzFan
07-14-2010, 01:39 PM
Boozer is much better than Al. Boozer plays well in the playoffs. Al has never even made the playoffs and even worse yet has never been close. Hell he even played with Pierce and they only won 24 games. Al is the type of guy who gets good numbers on bad teams and who puts up empty stats.

Plz stop your homering i know u dont wanna believe Al Jefferson is better then boozer but at least stfu u dont know wat the hell ur talking about honestly.

Swashcuff
07-14-2010, 01:52 PM
JBs homerism is starting to get ridiculous.

toronto_JazzFan
07-14-2010, 01:54 PM
JBs homerism is starting to get ridiculous.

thank you some1 else sees it