PDA

View Full Version : Can the Cavs without LeBron go to the playoffs next year?



valade16
07-12-2010, 04:23 PM
The reason I ask this is because everyone on PSD is criticizing LeBron for going to Miami by saying "Jordan stayed with his team and won".

My point is this: the Bulls w/o Jordan went to the 2nd round of the playoffs. So his supporting cast was a 2nd round talent team.

Do you think the Cavs without LeBron will go to the 2nd round, or even make the playoffs?

What does that say about the talent of their respective teams? Is it fair to criticize LeBron when his supporting cast is, in all reality, far worse than Jordans, or Kobes, or Olajuwans, or Birds, or Magics, or pretty much any Championship team ever?

carter80
07-12-2010, 04:27 PM
good point but the cavs could possibly be an 8th seed but i doubt it, The eastern conference is so weak.

Jaji
07-12-2010, 04:28 PM
You should have added a poll to this. But anyways, I think they have a chance to compete for a spot in the weak East. It'd be great to see them vs Miami in the 1 vs 8 series. But if I had to say yes or no... :down:.

mikantsass
07-12-2010, 04:30 PM
The Cavs will be lucky to win 30 games next year. When Mo Williams is your best player you have a serious problem.

Mo/Gibson/Telfair
Parker/West
Moon/????
Jamison/Hickson/Powe
Varejao/Hickson

Not a good team, especially in the improving East

Raoul Duke
07-12-2010, 04:33 PM
It's not out of the question. I see seven teams in the east that are clearly better right now, and another two that could be better. They have about as good a shot as my Pistons do.

CowboysKB24
07-12-2010, 04:35 PM
The reason I ask this is because everyone on PSD is criticizing LeBron for going to Miami by saying "Jordan stayed with his team and won".

My point is this: the Bulls w/o Jordan went to the 2nd round of the playoffs. So his supporting cast was a 2nd round talent team.

Do you think the Cavs without LeBron will go to the 2nd round, or even make the playoffs?

What does that say about the talent of their respective teams? Is it fair to criticize LeBron when his supporting cast is, in all reality, far worse than Jordans, or Kobes, or Olajuwans, or Birds, or Magics, or pretty much any Championship team ever?

I don't know it all depends. If they don't have Z and Shaq (both FAs), it'll be tough.

If Mo Williams, J.J. Hickson, Jamison, Big Z, Delonte West, and Varejo are still on the team they should get into the playoffs. We will see what happens, Byron Scott should help them.

COBY KARL
07-12-2010, 04:36 PM
It's gonna be hard to see any free agent wanting to sign with Cleveland

Big Quett
07-12-2010, 04:37 PM
The reason I ask this is because everyone on PSD is criticizing LeBron for going to Miami by saying "Jordan stayed with his team and won".

My point is this: the Bulls w/o Jordan went to the 2nd round of the playoffs. So his supporting cast was a 2nd round talent team.

Do you think the Cavs without LeBron will go to the 2nd round, or even make the playoffs?

What does that say about the talent of their respective teams? Is it fair to criticize LeBron when his supporting cast is, in all reality, far worse than Jordans, or Kobes, or Olajuwans, or Birds, or Magics, or pretty much any Championship team ever?

Yeah people conveniently forget that fact. Didnt they win like 55 games also?

JordansBulls
07-12-2010, 04:39 PM
The reason I ask this is because everyone on PSD is criticizing LeBron for going to Miami by saying "Jordan stayed with his team and won".

My point is this: the Bulls w/o Jordan went to the 2nd round of the playoffs. So his supporting cast was a 2nd round talent team.

Do you think the Cavs without LeBron will go to the 2nd round, or even make the playoffs?

What does that say about the talent of their respective teams? Is it fair to criticize LeBron when his supporting cast is, in all reality, far worse than Jordans, or Kobes, or Olajuwans, or Birds, or Magics, or pretty much any Championship team ever?

His cast isn't far worst in comparison to the league he is playing in today. That is why he got the best record in the league.

And it will depend on who stays on the team next year. Shaq already is gone and Big Z as well. Delonte may be gone as well.

Also people forget that in 1994 when we made the 2nd round we played the Cavs in round 1 who were missing 2 of there top 3 players in Daugherty and Nance. They were 3-1 against us that year.

Also we had 3 allstars that year that all were at their peak and we actually got Kukoc that year and some other big men to help us fill the void.

lakers4sho
07-12-2010, 04:41 PM
LOL if the Cavs make the playoffs this year I would laugh at everyone who said they are **** without LeBron.

NYMetros
07-12-2010, 04:43 PM
No, the Cavs have absolute no shot of making the playoffs next year. I'll be surprised if they can win more than 30-32 games.

8kobe24
07-12-2010, 04:43 PM
Cavs have good players outside of lebron, 1 all-star in Mo. Really, the problem with cleveland last playoffs was EVERYBODY decided to turn it OFF against boston. Everything was going so well then all of a sudden ... blackout. Everybody was waiting for lebron to do something (vs. boston) but the whole time lebron was in need for someone to step up. No one did, and that is why he is now in miami because he cannot do it alone. I really disagree with the whole Idea that he did not have enough talent because if that was true they wouldn't have the best record overall.

Master Mind
07-12-2010, 04:44 PM
Simply, no.

valade16
07-12-2010, 04:44 PM
His cast isn't far worst in comparison to the league he is playing in today. That is why he got the best record in the league.

And it will depend on who stays on the team next year. Shaq already is gone and Big Z as well. Delonte may be gone as well.

That was because of LeBron. By that standard can't we reasonably assume however many games the Cavs drop off next year is LeBrons impact to the team?

Jordan's team went from 72 wins to 55, that's a 17 game swing.

If the Cavs dip to anywhere in the 40s your looking at a similar swing, possibly more.

And also about the cast not being far worse. That cast is a worse cast than every Championship team from the 2000s...

JordansBulls
07-12-2010, 04:47 PM
That was because of LeBron. By that standard can't we reasonably assume however many games the Cavs drop off next year is LeBrons impact to the team?

Jordan's team went from 72 wins to 55, that's a 17 game swing.

If the Cavs dip to anywhere in the 40s your looking at a similar swing, possibly more.

And also about the cast not being far worse. That cast is a worse cast than every Championship team from the 2000s...

Disagree. The Mavs in 2006 and 2007 outside of Dirk was worse.

Jaji
07-12-2010, 04:48 PM
No, the Cavs have absolute no shot of making the playoffs next year. I'll be surprised if they can win more than 30-32 games.

30-32 wins was good enough to get you in the playoffs in the East a few years ago lol.

Jaji
07-12-2010, 04:50 PM
Cavs have good players outside of lebron, 1 all-star in Mo. Really, the problem with cleveland last playoffs was EVERYBODY decided to turn it OFF against boston. Everything was going so well then all of a sudden ... blackout. Everybody was waiting for lebron to do something (vs. boston) but the whole time lebron was in need for someone to step up. No one did, and that is why he is now in miami because he cannot do it alone. I really disagree with the whole Idea that he did not have enough talent because if that was true they wouldn't have the best record overall.

Mo Williams isn't a real All-Star. He made 1 team... as a replacement. He might average 20 next year though because I could see him just jacking with no LeBron on the squad.

Niro
07-12-2010, 04:51 PM
they could be the worst team in the league now

NYMetros
07-12-2010, 04:55 PM
30-32 wins was good enough to get you in the playoffs in the East a few years ago lol.

No it wasn't. Maybe a #9 seed, at best.

valade16
07-12-2010, 04:58 PM
Disagree. The Mavs in 2006 and 2007 outside of Dirk was worse.

I apologize, I worded it ambiguous. I meant to say teasm that won the championship, however I will address this point since I got myself into this mess...

That Dallas team without Nowitzki had Josh Howard, Devin Harris, Jason Terry, and Jerry Stackhouse.

That's at the least is comparable and in my opinion better...

JordansBulls
07-12-2010, 05:03 PM
I apologize, I worded it ambiguous. I meant to say teasm that won the championship, however I will address this point since I got myself into this mess...

That Dallas team without Nowitzki had Josh Howard, Devin Harris, Jason Terry, and Jerry Stackhouse.

That's at the least is comparable and in my opinion better...

No where near the caliber of Shaq (1x mvp, 3 finals mvp's), Jamison 2x allstar, Big Z 2x allstar (allstar before Lebron ever came to Cleveland), Mo (17 and 6 before ever playing with Lebron)

Badluck33
07-12-2010, 05:06 PM
good point but the cavs could possibly be an 8th seed but i doubt it, The eastern conference is so weak.

definition of "baksetball dumb."

valade16
07-12-2010, 05:10 PM
No where near the caliber of Shaq (1x mvp, 3 finals mvp's), Jamison 2x allstar, Big Z 2x allstar (allstar before Lebron ever came to Cleveland), Mo (17 and 6 before ever playing with Lebron)

I guess you can compare legacies if you want, but I'm comparing the talent on the floor. And the Shaq on the Cavs floor was not capable of winning 1 MVP or any Finals MVPs, he put up 12 points...

Howard was an All-Star in 2007 with Nowitzki, who has averaged 19.9 and 7 boards.

Jason Terry was the 6th man of the year and averaged 19 points and 5 to 7 assists outside of Dallas...

Jerry Stackhouse is a 2x All-Star who has averaged 18 ppg in his career (including many 20+ seasons)...

Devin Harris was an all-star as well in 09 who averaged 21 points and 7 assists...

So outside of old Shaq, the other three you named had 5 all-star appearances, whil three of these have 4. Not much difference...

Do you really think last years Cavs without LeBron would beat the 06 Dallas Mavericks without nowitzki?

juggla53
07-12-2010, 05:13 PM
One of the cavs biggest advantages last year was their size, now they have lost lebron, shaq and Z (most likley) takeing away two of the biggest centers in the NBA and loseing lebron who has the body of a power forward. They are in real rough shape and with almost no young talent to speak of with the exception me of jj hickson, who may make an allstar game or two but i dont see his ceiling any higher then that. They have a lot of money tied up in guys like varejao and jamison and that is not good for a team looking to rebuild.

Sly Guy
07-12-2010, 05:14 PM
simply put with the current roster, no. I expect them to be far down the ladder this year.

Hugbees
07-12-2010, 05:18 PM
lol no way. they will be a lottery team. Similar to the Nets of last season. They probably have the least talented roster in the entire league.

Bruno
07-12-2010, 05:22 PM
Isn't the biggest question, what are the Cavs going to do with all this cap space? LBJ and Shaqs 20 mil off the books?? Aren't they big players in whats left of the FA market?

Hawkeye15
07-12-2010, 05:24 PM
They will not make the playoffs unless they are able to get a really good player with their exception. I could see Al Jefferson helping them into the 7-8 seed. But they are rebuilding, period

Hawkeye15
07-12-2010, 05:26 PM
Isn't the biggest question, what are the Cavs going to do with all this cap space? LBJ and Shaqs 20 mil off the books?? Aren't they big players in whats left of the FA market?

they haven't renounced Shaq and Big Z, so they don't really have any cap space per say until/unless Shaq and Big Z sign elsewhere. And then they only have about $7 million when that happens. They will need to use the large trade exception, and pray to god a team wants to get rid of a really good player's salary in a salary dump move only.

JWO35
07-12-2010, 05:27 PM
I'll be shocked if the Cleveland Cavaliers don't end up last in the Central Division

Hawkeye15
07-12-2010, 05:27 PM
If they don't get an immediate starter who can score and defend, they are a 20-25 win team with their current roster. People are about to see how bad LeBron's supporting cast really was this upcoming season I fear.

koLohe2133
07-12-2010, 05:30 PM
The reason I ask this is because everyone on PSD is criticizing LeBron for going to Miami by saying "Jordan stayed with his team and won".

My point is this: the Bulls w/o Jordan went to the 2nd round of the playoffs. So his supporting cast was a 2nd round talent team.

Do you think the Cavs without LeBron will go to the 2nd round, or even make the playoffs?

What does that say about the talent of their respective teams? Is it fair to criticize LeBron when his supporting cast is, in all reality, far worse than Jordans, or Kobes, or Olajuwans, or Birds, or Magics, or pretty much any Championship team ever?

RIDICULOUS ARGUMENT....


bulls without jordan still had scottie pippen....a top 50 of all time nba player



lebron IS THE SCOTTIE PIPPEN OF THOSE CAVS.....he def wasnt the JORDAN of the cavs....n he showed his testicular fortitude as a #1 option when he ran to the heat.

Mplsman
07-12-2010, 05:32 PM
The Cavs will be lucky to win 30 games next year. When Mo Williams is your best player you have a serious problem.

Mo/Gibson/Telfair
Parker/West
Moon/????
Jamison/Hickson/Powe
Varejao/Hickson

Not a good team, especially in the improving East


Sucks for Jamison!

chisoxfan99
07-12-2010, 05:33 PM
The reason I ask this is because everyone on PSD is criticizing LeBron for going to Miami by saying "Jordan stayed with his team and won".

My point is this: the Bulls w/o Jordan went to the 2nd round of the playoffs. So his supporting cast was a 2nd round talent team.

Do you think the Cavs without LeBron will go to the 2nd round, or even make the playoffs?

What does that say about the talent of their respective teams? Is it fair to criticize LeBron when his supporting cast is, in all reality, far worse than Jordans, or Kobes, or Olajuwans, or Birds, or Magics, or pretty much any Championship team ever?

They still had Scottie, Horace Grant, Steve Kerr, Toni Kukoc, BJ Armstrong.

valade16
07-12-2010, 05:35 PM
RIDICULOUS ARGUMENT....

bulls without jordan still had scottie pippen....a top 50 of all time nba player

lebron IS THE SCOTTIE PIPPEN OF THOSE CAVS.....he def wasnt the JORDAN of the cavs....n he showed his testicular fortitude as a #1 option when he ran to the heat.

Is this some kind of joke?! How many 2nd options get 2 straight MVPs, average 30 points, 7 boards, and 8 assists?

How many 2nd options score 25 STRAIGHT POINTS in an ECF's playoff game to send his Developmental league roster to the NBA finals?

I sincerely hope for your sake he doesn't win a ridiculous amount of rings with the heat, you might come off looking like a douche if he does...

Jaji
07-12-2010, 05:36 PM
They still had Scottie, Horace Grant, Steve Kerr, Toni Kukoc, BJ Armstrong.

That's the point of the OP. Lebron gets criticized for not winning when clearly Jordan had a better team. LeBron's also only 25, just wanted to throw that out there.

valade16
07-12-2010, 05:37 PM
They still had Scottie, Horace Grant, Steve Kerr, Toni Kukoc, BJ Armstrong.

that's my point! MJs supporting cast would've destroyed LeBrons! So why get mad when he wants a good team around him?

wouldn't you?

WOULD ANYONE ON PSD HAVE STAYED WITH CLEVELAND IF THEY WERE LEBRON?!

NO!

koLohe2133
07-12-2010, 05:39 PM
Is this some kind of joke?! How many 2nd options get 2 straight MVPs, average 30 points, 7 boards, and 8 assists?

How many 2nd options score 25 STRAIGHT POINTS in an ECF's playoff game to send his Developmental league roster to the NBA finals?

I sincerely hope for your sake he doesn't win a ridiculous amount of rings with the heat, you might come off looking like a douche if he does...

i understand what ur arguing....let me rephrase.




lebron is not mj. it is an insult to his airness to even put them in the same sentence without a "IS NOT".


what i meant to say was that lebron is like scottie pippen.

Pierzynski4Prez
07-12-2010, 05:40 PM
The reason I ask this is because everyone on PSD is criticizing LeBron for going to Miami by saying "Jordan stayed with his team and won".

My point is this: the Bulls w/o Jordan went to the 2nd round of the playoffs. So his supporting cast was a 2nd round talent team.

Do you think the Cavs without LeBron will go to the 2nd round, or even make the playoffs?

What does that say about the talent of their respective teams? Is it fair to criticize LeBron when his supporting cast is, in all reality, far worse than Jordans, or Kobes, or Olajuwans, or Birds, or Magics, or pretty much any Championship team ever?

:laugh::laugh:

Really?? Cavs only went to the 2nd round with Lebron. You really need to ask this?

Jaji
07-12-2010, 05:43 PM
Is this some kind of joke?! How many 2nd options get 2 straight MVPs, average 30 points, 7 boards, and 8 assists?

How many 2nd options score 25 STRAIGHT POINTS in an ECF's playoff game to send his Developmental league roster to the NBA finals?

I sincerely hope for your sake he doesn't win a ridiculous amount of rings with the heat, you might come off looking like a douche if he does...

At first I thought that was the dumbest comment ever made in the history of sports, Greek Olympics included (not yours, the one you quoted) but I think I know what he's trying to say. He's saying LeBron was like Scottie the year Mike was out, meaning he was the 1st option but couldn't win the title. Still a bad comparison, but not as bad.

But I don't remember Scottie getting back to back league MVPs. Not to mention LeBron is only 25. Jordan wasn't winning ships with Pippen at 25. He damn sure wasn't gonna win without him.

valade16
07-12-2010, 05:44 PM
i understand what ur arguing....let me rephrase.

lebron is not mj. it is an insult to his airness to even put them in the same sentence without a "IS NOT".

what i meant to say was that lebron is like scottie pippen.

On this we are in perfect agreement. I'm not trying to say that Lebron is near MJ, I'm simply stating that MJ had a greater supporting cast than Lebron, as did EVERY other superstar who won a title.

So why is everyone knocking LeBron for wanting a better team. obviously the Cavs weren't gonna deliver...

valade16
07-12-2010, 05:45 PM
:laugh::laugh:

Really?? Cavs only went to the 2nd round with Lebron. You really need to ask this?

Yes I do, because I'm proving a point. That LeBron had a bad supporting cast.

And your response further validates my assumption.

nickdymez
07-12-2010, 05:46 PM
There was a stat that lebron accounted for 46% of the cavs offense... So no...

Jaji
07-12-2010, 05:51 PM
i understand what ur arguing....let me rephrase.




lebron is not mj. it is an insult to his airness to even put them in the same sentence without a "IS NOT".


what i meant to say was that lebron is like scottie pippen.

Saying LeBron is not MJ is like saying Kevin Durant is not MJ. Its way too early to tell. LeBron might win 10 ships in a row then he definitely won't be MJ. Or rather MJ would not be him. LeBron has definitely accomplished more by age 25 than Jordan did and that's a fact.

Jaji
07-12-2010, 05:52 PM
Yes I do, because I'm proving a point. That LeBron had a bad supporting cast.

And your response further validates my assumption.

:burn:

valade16
07-12-2010, 05:54 PM
Saying LeBron is not MJ is like saying Kevin Durant is not MJ. Its way too early to tell. LeBron might win 10 ships in a row then he definitely won't be MJ. Or rather MJ would not be him. LeBron has definitely accomplished more by age 25 than Jordan did and that's a fact.

Excellent points! honestly, I think we've kind of cleaned out this thread of opposing arguments lol, might be time to somewhere else!

Another win for you, sir Jaji!

JasonJohnHorn
07-12-2010, 05:59 PM
Firstly, the Bulls of '94 was very different than the Bulls of '88, when they got knocked out in the second round. Had that team been left without Jordan, they would have missed the playoffs by a mile, but in '94 they had a mature Pippen and Grant, Toni K. arriving from Europe and an all-star in Ron Harper joining the team to take Jordan's spot. The Cavs have neither an all-star to replace LBJ, nor a big name European playing coming to help out.

That said: The Cavs are a shooting guard away from a decent starting line up. If Jamison moves to SF (which he can play), Hickson takes over PF and Anderson V. takes over starting center with Mo Williams leading the charge at PG, that is a decent staring line-up. Plus they have Powe and Moon coming off the bench, so if they use the cap space they get when Shaq's contract is recinded to pick up a shooting guard, and use their trade exception to pick up some talent for the bench, they could be in really decent shape with Byron Scott coaching them.

and remember, Jordan took a team to the title, and the came two rounds short of that accomplishment when he left. James only to his team to the second round and lost, so they cant even under achieve by two rounds since James only won one playoff series before leaving Cleveland. Not quite a fair comparison.

With the draft picks, cap space and trade exceptions, combined with the talent they already have and their new coach, I think that the Cavs could possible make the 7th or 8th seed, which means they will be playing Orlando or Boston in the first round ;-)

Chronz
07-12-2010, 06:00 PM
RIDICULOUS ARGUMENT....


bulls without jordan still had scottie pippen....a top 50 of all time nba player
That only helps his argument




lebron IS THE SCOTTIE PIPPEN OF THOSE CAVS.....he def wasnt the JORDAN of the cavs....n he showed his testicular fortitude as a #1 option when he ran to the heat.
The point hes making is that hes not doing anything irrational. He just wants to be in the same position MJ was in, the same position Kobe has been in for 2 years now. That is having the most talented support/team in the game.

Its not running away, its fighting back and saying enough is enough. 7 years is long enough for them to build him a contender. Heck Kobe quit after 3 and he had already won a few.

valade16
07-12-2010, 06:05 PM
Firstly, the Bulls of '94 was very different than the Bulls of '88, when they got knocked out in the second round.

UUUhhhh, that's my point!

The Bulls of 88 were the Cavs of 09, surprisingly neither MJ nor LeBron walked away with a ring.

Now the Bulls managed to get a guy named Scottie Pippen and suddenly the Bulls were loaded and MJ won 6 titles.

MJ needed Scottie.

Find me a Scottie on the Cavs roster. you can't do it, because it isn't there. The Cavs were a franchise going nowhere unless LeBron took them there.

Ty Fast
07-12-2010, 06:05 PM
The Cavs will be lucky to win 30 games next year. When Mo Williams is your best player you have a serious problem.

Mo/Gibson/Telfair
Parker/West
Moon/????
Jamison/Hickson/Powe
Varejao/Hickson

Not a good team, especially in the improving East

that's funny, but true

ClayMatthews
07-12-2010, 06:08 PM
good point but the cavs could possibly be an 8th seed but i doubt it, The eastern conference is so weak.

The eastern conference is overall stronger than the west. That is why the cavs will not make the playoffs next year.

PLAYERS FAN
07-12-2010, 06:11 PM
LOL if the Cavs make the playoffs this year I would laugh at everyone who said they are **** without LeBron.

1x

JOSKOMANG4
07-12-2010, 06:15 PM
IMO, East Playoffs:

1) Magic
2) Heat
3) Celtics
4) Hawks
5) Bulls
6) Bucks
7) Bobcats
8) Nets

BayHuStLE
07-12-2010, 06:20 PM
the cavs will sadly not make the playoffs, unless they trade for some actual talent...

_KB24_
07-12-2010, 06:26 PM
They still have a lot of cap space. But potentially missing 4 of their players in their rotation from last year is going to hurt (Bron, West, Z, and Shaq) its going to be difficult. If they can get a decent wing to play the 3, I think they can make it. Their still alot of shooters and hustle in this team. They're not going to beat you on talent, but their hustling and fighting for the ball will make them competitive. I think its possible.

michelangelo
07-12-2010, 06:28 PM
I see them winning in the neighborhood of 30 games, plus or minus 5. They have some all star caliber talent in Mo and Jamison, and a decent role player in Varejao.

Their defense will be terrible and their morale at an all-time low, however.

It may be the case that Byron Scott set himself up to get fired at the end of the season, if not sooner.

The Cavs' organization looks to be worth about a $1.99 at this point.

Jaji
07-12-2010, 06:35 PM
Firstly, the Bulls of '94 was very different than the Bulls of '88, when they got knocked out in the second round. Had that team been left without Jordan, they would have missed the playoffs by a mile, but in '94 they had a mature Pippen and Grant, Toni K. arriving from Europe and an all-star in Ron Harper joining the team to take Jordan's spot. The Cavs have neither an all-star to replace LBJ, nor a big name European playing coming to help out.

That said: The Cavs are a shooting guard away from a decent starting line up. If Jamison moves to SF (which he can play), Hickson takes over PF and Anderson V. takes over starting center with Mo Williams leading the charge at PG, that is a decent staring line-up. Plus they have Powe and Moon coming off the bench, so if they use the cap space they get when Shaq's contract is recinded to pick up a shooting guard, and use their trade exception to pick up some talent for the bench, they could be in really decent shape with Byron Scott coaching them.

and remember, Jordan took a team to the title, and the came two rounds short of that accomplishment when he left. James only to his team to the second round and lost, so they cant even under achieve by two rounds since James only won one playoff series before leaving Cleveland. Not quite a fair comparison.

With the draft picks, cap space and trade exceptions, combined with the talent they already have and their new coach, I think that the Cavs could possible make the 7th or 8th seed, which means they will be playing Orlando or Boston in the first round ;-)

Horrible 1,000th post. Let's hope the first 999 were much better.

You really just proved the point that you were supposedly trying to argue. Yes, the 88 Bulls would have missed the playoffs. That's his point! Just like the 09 Cavs would have. Notice Jordan didn't have any rings in 88, because he didn't have a strong enough supporting cast. By 94, the Bulls were a playoff team without Mike. Are the Cavs a playoff team without LeBron?

That starting lineup you just made up is not good. First of all, you only named 4 players. You're whole theory includes a huge IF. And IF they did get a legit 2 man they would still have trouble. Mo Williams actually is a 2 guard in a PG's body, let's be honest. Jamison couldn't get out of the 1st round with Gilbert Arenas and Karon Butler on his team. And that was when he was in his prime. You think he can do damage while he's past his prime, with Mo Williams instead of Arenas, no 2 guard and Anderson Varejao in the middle?

The Cavs will suck next year if they leave the roster as is. They may be able to add a guy or 2 but the playoffs will be asking a lot. Winning a title before Miami lol? You'd think Dan Gilbert was on South Beach sniffing that yeyo.

cle12152433
07-12-2010, 06:36 PM
Can the Cavs MAKE the playoffs? Yes.

Will the Cavs WIN A GAME in the playoffs? Maybe.

Will the Cavs WIN A PLAYOFF SERIES? Absolutely not.

Jaji
07-12-2010, 06:41 PM
They still have a lot of cap space. But potentially missing 4 of their players in their rotation from last year is going to hurt (Bron, West, Z, and Shaq) its going to be difficult. If they can get a decent wing to play the 3, I think they can make it. Their still alot of shooters and hustle in this team. They're not going to beat you on talent, but their hustling and fighting for the ball will make them competitive. I think its possible.

:laugh2: @ your sig. How did LeBron "betray" you? That's just ridiculous. LeBron signing with the Heat has nothing to do with Los Angeles. Well, other than ending their dynasty :(.

thekmp211
07-12-2010, 06:41 PM
unless they pick up a good player or two, or make a surprising run to start the season, they will be rebuilding.

so, no. jamison and mo, they only players with an offensive pulse, will be traded to contenders looking for depth.

thekmp211
07-12-2010, 06:44 PM
Horrible 1,000th post. Let's hope the first 999 were much better.

You really just proved the point that you were supposedly trying to argue. Yes, the 88 Bulls would have missed the playoffs. That's his point! Just like the 09 Cavs would have. Notice Jordan didn't have any rings in 88, because he didn't have a strong enough supporting cast. By 94, the Bulls were a playoff team without Mike. Are the Cavs a playoff team without LeBron?

That starting lineup you just made up is not good. First of all, you only named 4 players. You're whole theory includes a huge IF. And IF they did get a legit 2 man they would still have trouble. Mo Williams actually is a 2 guard in a PG's body, let's be honest. Jamison couldn't get out of the 1st round with Gilbert Arenas and Karon Butler on his team. And that was when he was in his prime. You think he can do damage while he's past his prime, with Mo Williams instead of Arenas, no 2 guard and Anderson Varejao in the middle?

The Cavs will suck next year if they leave the roster as is. They may be able to add a guy or 2 but the playoffs will be asking a lot. Winning a title before Miami lol? You'd think Dan Gilbert was on South Beach sniffing that yeyo.


i like antawn jamison, but he is zach randolph without the personality issues. a faux star that is best served being a 6th man like was in dallas.

my point in mentioning that was he often gets referenced as a star player with star statistics.

cle12152433
07-12-2010, 06:45 PM
:laugh2: @ your sig. How did LeBron "betray" you? That's just ridiculous. LeBron signing with the Heat has nothing to do with Los Angeles. Well, other than ending their dynasty :(.

I think he is just saying betrayal in "general"

Jaji
07-12-2010, 06:49 PM
i like antawn jamison, but he is zach randolph without the personality issues. a faux star that is best served being a 6th man like was in dallas.

my point in mentioning that was he often gets referenced as a star player with star statistics.

I agree with that. He had some good years though, but they are far behind him. When he's your best, or even 2nd best scorer, then your team is in trouble. He should go to the Heat and come off :D.

Hawkeye15
07-12-2010, 07:08 PM
those who are saying use the cap space left by LeBron don't realize A) They never renounced Shaq and Big Z, so their cap holds leave the Cavs with no cap space, and B) when those two sign somewhere it will leave a whole $7 million. If they don't use their trade exception to bring in a really good player trying to be peeled off by a team looking for cap reduction, the Cavs will win 20-25 games.
Like I posted before, I really think the Cavs this season will show all those sticking up for LeBrons "supporting cast" as being legit, how horrendous they really were.

DraKo
07-12-2010, 07:11 PM
Maybe for the 8th seed

DKGiants
07-12-2010, 07:34 PM
NOOO!!! THE CAVS ARE TERRIBLE!! I know that they had a terrible record every time Lebron wasnt in the starting lineup. BELIEVE ME, the cavs are NOT going to make the Playoffs next year and when they dont, your owner is gonna look like an idiot. who promises a championship when they lose there BEST player from there team and that player was the only reason you were ever making the playoffs?... terrible team, terrible coach, terrible players, terrible organization. dont worry i now HATE Lebron too.

shep33
07-12-2010, 07:46 PM
I think they can make it still, they need to sign/trade for a couple guys though. They kinda got screwed with LBJ not telling them right away, which he should've done... i mean if he loves Cleveland so much, he could've atleast told them sooner than 9:01 last thursday, so that they could atleast have some flexibility. That's why I lost respect for the guy... go wherever you want, but he says he loves Cleveland, so why not show them some respect by telling them you ain't coming back? They could've atleast signed some role players, and guys to take Shaq's and Big Z's place.. i.e. Warrick, Gooden, etc.

But it doesn't matter now, what's done is done... if they can somehow land Al Jefferson... heck why not Gilbert Arenas?

RulerSlick
07-12-2010, 07:48 PM
Did anyone watch the Cavs last season in the games lebron didn't play? They were were awful:facepalm:

_KB24_
07-12-2010, 07:50 PM
:laugh2: @ your sig. How did LeBron "betray" you? That's just ridiculous. LeBron signing with the Heat has nothing to do with Los Angeles. Well, other than ending their dynasty :(.

:laugh2: Yeah, and the Bills are going to win the Superbowl Next!!!! :rolleyes:

I made the group to outline his betrayal in general. Overwhelming response if you ask me, because literally fans of every fanbase joined, including some Miami cats :laugh2:

JordansBulls
07-12-2010, 07:52 PM
Horrible 1,000th post. Let's hope the first 999 were much better.

You really just proved the point that you were supposedly trying to argue. Yes, the 88 Bulls would have missed the playoffs. That's his point! Just like the 09 Cavs would have. Notice Jordan didn't have any rings in 88, because he didn't have a strong enough supporting cast. By 94, the Bulls were a playoff team without Mike. Are the Cavs a playoff team without LeBron?

That starting lineup you just made up is not good. First of all, you only named 4 players. You're whole theory includes a huge IF. And IF they did get a legit 2 man they would still have trouble. Mo Williams actually is a 2 guard in a PG's body, let's be honest. Jamison couldn't get out of the 1st round with Gilbert Arenas and Karon Butler on his team. And that was when he was in his prime. You think he can do damage while he's past his prime, with Mo Williams instead of Arenas, no 2 guard and Anderson Varejao in the middle?

The Cavs will suck next year if they leave the roster as is. They may be able to add a guy or 2 but the playoffs will be asking a lot. Winning a title before Miami lol? You'd think Dan Gilbert was on South Beach sniffing that yeyo.

Bulls had 3 peated already with everyone in their prime and thus everyone was full of confidence. The Cavs lost Lebron, but even with Lebron and the best record the past 2 seasons still didnt make the finals. Last year they lost in round 2 despite being heavily favorite both times.

carlessyen
07-12-2010, 08:13 PM
people are ********, this isnt a 30 win team. I remember Lebron going down and them running off a very nice streak of wins. And when Scott applies that Princeton style offense gonna be hard for teams to matchup. He needs to get a better point gaurd though I dont mind Mo as a 6 man point off the bench to light it up. But they need a Bigger 2 guard, a passing point guard, and Center. This isn't theworse team in the league, and it isn't a 30 win team. I guarantee "GUARANTEE" the cavs when 40 plus games next season if they don't I won't log on anymore.

carlessyen
07-12-2010, 08:18 PM
if you have played this game you know you don't win 60 plus games because of one player. They are a 20 point scorerand passing point guard away from playoffs book it. If they could trade for a player like AI2, Rip, or Prince to play 2, and mediocre point guard they contend now without a center.

esewicked13
07-12-2010, 08:21 PM
possibly the cavs can make the 8th or 7th seed

esewicked13
07-12-2010, 08:24 PM
1.heat
2.magic
3.celtics
4.hawks
5.bulls
6.bucks
7.bobcats
8. possibly cavs/knicks/nets/wizards but who ever it be they wont get out the 1st round

Gym Class Hero
07-12-2010, 08:34 PM
if you have played this game you know you don't win 60 plus games because of one player. They are a 20 point scorerand passing point guard away from playoffs book it. If they could trade for a player like AI2, Rip, or Prince to play 2, and mediocre point guard they contend now without a center.

Those guys dont just walk of the street and whos gonna just hand them guys like that.

tangent12
07-12-2010, 08:37 PM
I think they'll make it.. They have a decent enough team to make a push.

valade16
07-12-2010, 09:58 PM
if you have played this game you know you don't win 60 plus games because of one player. They are a 20 point scorerand passing point guard away from playoffs book it. If they could trade for a player like AI2, Rip, or Prince to play 2, and mediocre point guard they contend now without a center.

I think your discounting the impact a really good player can have on a team.

Bucks in 68 won 27 games, added 1 guy (Kareem Abdul-Jabbar) and won 56 games...

Celtics in 78 won 29 games, added Larry Bird and won 61 games...

One player can make all the difference...

valade16
07-12-2010, 10:00 PM
Bulls had 3 peated already with everyone in their prime and thus everyone was full of confidence. The Cavs lost Lebron, but even with Lebron and the best record the past 2 seasons still didnt make the finals. Last year they lost in round 2 despite being heavily favorite both times.

Are you saying the only reason Jordan's supporting cast was better than LeBrons supporting cast is confidence?:confused:

Jaji
07-12-2010, 10:51 PM
Are you saying the only reason Jordan's supporting cast was better than LeBrons supporting cast is confidence?:confused:

:laugh2: I think they had this one guy, forget his name. Where did I see him? Oh yeah... the HALL OF FAME! Pippen that's it.

LavelC
07-12-2010, 11:10 PM
Cavs have good players outside of lebron, 1 all-star in Mo. Really, the problem with cleveland last playoffs was EVERYBODY decided to turn it OFF against boston. Everything was going so well then all of a sudden ... blackout. Everybody was waiting for lebron to do something (vs. boston) but the whole time lebron was in need for someone to step up. No one did, and that is why he is now in miami because he cannot do it alone. I really disagree with the whole Idea that he did not have enough talent because if that was true they wouldn't have the best record overall.

Correct me if im wrong. But didnt Mo only make it because 4 or five people got injured. And they said that the team with the best record should have more than 1 repesenetive in the all star game. IDK if he is more than a role player at all

cle12152433
07-12-2010, 11:22 PM
Correct me if im wrong. But didnt Mo only make it because 4 or five people got injured. And they said that the team with the best record should have more than 1 repesenetive in the all star game. IDK if he is more than a role player at all

ANy nba fan with half a brain knows Mo Williams is a good player. Not on the level of CP3 or Rondo. But he is good.

LavelC
07-12-2010, 11:43 PM
[QUOTE=cle12152433;14110175]ANy nba fan with half a brain knows Mo Williams is a good player. Not on the level of CP3 or Rondo. But he is good.[/QU

Whats so good about him never showing up in the playoffs. If hes youre number 2 then you're never going to win. What is the guy going to do now that hes a number 1

Me and Mr. T
07-12-2010, 11:46 PM
The reason I ask this is because everyone on PSD is criticizing LeBron for going to Miami by saying "Jordan stayed with his team and won".

My point is this: the Bulls w/o Jordan went to the 2nd round of the playoffs. So his supporting cast was a 2nd round talent team.
Do you think the Cavs without LeBron will go to the 2nd round, or even make the playoffs?

What does that say about the talent of their respective teams? Is it fair to criticize LeBron when his supporting cast is, in all reality, far worse than Jordans, or Kobes, or Olajuwans, or Birds, or Magics, or pretty much any Championship team ever?

The only reason they didn't go to the Finals was because of a HORRIBLE call that allowed the Knicks to win game 5. Watch this video around the 3:30 mark:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nh-BS_QUVM

I still believe they would have beat the Rockets even without Jordan.

cle12152433
07-12-2010, 11:48 PM
[QUOTE=cle12152433;14110175]ANy nba fan with half a brain knows Mo Williams is a good player. Not on the level of CP3 or Rondo. But he is good.[/QU

Whats so good about him never showing up in the playoffs. If hes youre number 2 then you're never going to win. What is the guy going to do now that hes a number 1

This is total BS. Some people are stupid. Yes, I said it. STUPID.

I dont care what the Cavaliers won, or didnt win. Who showed up, or who didnt.

FOR TWO YEARS IN A ROW, THEY HAD THE BEST RECORD IN THE NBA.

So what they didnt win it all. If that doesnt count for something, kiss my grits.

LavelC
07-13-2010, 12:03 AM
[QUOTE=LavelC;14110494]

This is total BS. Some people are stupid. Yes, I said it. STUPID.

I dont care what the Cavaliers won, or didnt win. Who showed up, or who didnt.

FOR TWO YEARS IN A ROW, THEY HAD THE BEST RECORD IN THE NBA.

So what they didnt win it all. If that doesnt count for something, kiss my grits.

Well Geunuis Yes those two yrs count for something
No Rings
No King
No Finals Apperances
and a twenty win team next season, or am i missing something

cle12152433
07-13-2010, 12:04 AM
[QUOTE=cle12152433;14110569]

Well Geunuis Yes those two yrs count for something
No Rings
No King
No Finals Apperances
and a twenty win team next season, or am i missing something

This made no sense

IndiansFan337
07-13-2010, 12:06 AM
Yes, but they aren't good enough to win a playoff series next season.

Iron24th
07-13-2010, 12:09 AM
I think Jamison will be their star now that LBJ is gone, he can play SF, and They could end 7th or 8th seed,there is 4 top teams in the East , but it's very open behind.

x23cbru24x
07-13-2010, 12:17 AM
no. 8 seed at best depends how the knicks come through withy these signings...these 2 teams will battle for the 8 seed...maybe one gets 7

FinsHeatPanthrs
07-13-2010, 12:18 AM
In no particular order:

Heat
Celtics
Magic
Bulls
Hawks
Bucks
Knicks
Charlotte/ New Jersey (I know NJ was on track for the worst record ever, but they do have some very promising young talent and they could step up any year, even next.)

I think it would be very hard for them to make the playoffs over these teams.

DCB/LAL
07-13-2010, 12:18 AM
Yes they will and Lebron isn't the only player they will lose this off-season.

elam83
07-13-2010, 12:27 AM
no way.not without lebron here are my eastern conference playoff teams:
1.Orlando(61-21)
2.Miami(55-27)
3.Boston(52-30)
4.Chicago(50-32)
5.Atlanta(47-35)
6.New York(44-38)
7.Milwaukee(42-40)
8.Charlotte(40-42)

i think cleveland will get 25-30 wins

The Raven
07-13-2010, 02:18 PM
Its possibly but highly unlikely. They get no higher then 8th seed if they do