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View Full Version : Would Kobe or Shaq leave a dime on the table to win a championship.



dnewguy
07-11-2010, 03:41 PM
In your opinion, would Kobe and Shaq have left money on the table in other to win a Championship? Keep in mind, Shaq/Kobe split up primarily because neither want to take a pay cut. people calling Lebron names, need to know that he did something neither Kobe nor Shaq ever did for the Lakers.

In your opinion, do you think Kobe or Shaq would sacrifice for a championship?

Jezeble
07-11-2010, 03:46 PM
As much as I love Shaq, no. As for Kobe, are you kidding?

ccugrad1
07-11-2010, 03:49 PM
I get tired of hearing people say, "Oh, LeBron took less;" "Chris Bosh took less." What are we talking about here folks? We are talking about a little over 100 million vs 120 million. Are these guys going to go hungry even with signing for 100 million? Come on! It isn't like we are talking say taking $20,000 as compared to $100,000.

dnewguy
07-11-2010, 03:49 PM
As much as I love Shaq, no. As for Kobe, are you kidding?

People forget that Kobe's salary put the Lakers in a limbo and had to settle for talents like Kwame Brown and Smush Parker.....If the Grizzles never did the Gasol trade, Kobe's selfishness would have continued to cost the team.

dnewguy
07-11-2010, 03:50 PM
I get tired of hearing people say, "Oh, LeBron took less;" "Chris Bosh took less." What are we talking about here folks? We are talking about a little over 100 million vs 120 million. Are these guys going to go hungry even with signing for 100 million? Come on! It isn't like we are talking say taking $20,000 as compared to $100,000.

Would Kobe do it? that's the question.........Would Kobe take less money than Joe Johnson in order to win a ring?

DCB/LAL
07-11-2010, 03:50 PM
No they didn't have to they were both good enough to win on their own and that has earned them every penny they've got today.....being able to win.

dnewguy
07-11-2010, 03:52 PM
No they didn't have to they were both good enough to win on their own and that has earned them every penny they've got today.....being able to win.

lol...that's got to be the Joke of the day.

Jezeble
07-11-2010, 03:52 PM
I get tired of hearing people say, "Oh, LeBron took less;" "Chris Bosh took less." What are we talking about here folks? We are talking about a little over 100 million vs 120 million. Are these guys going to go hungry even with signing for 100 million? Come on! It isn't like we are talking say taking $20,000 as compared to $100,000.

It doesn't matter how much it is. Bottom line, they were entitled to more and they accepted less. Bron and Bosh left $50 Million on the table between them. WOULD YOU?:confused:

ccugrad1
07-11-2010, 03:55 PM
It doesn't matter how much it is. Bottom line, they were entitled to more and they accepted less. Bron and Bosh left $50 Million on the table between them. WOULD YOU?:confused:

But come on people, are these guys going hungry or can't "feed their families" on 100 million instead of 120 million? If you can't live on 100 million, you need help! That's all I'm saying!

DCB/LAL
07-11-2010, 03:55 PM
lol...that's got to be the Joke of the day.

Its the truth....whats made them great is whats getting them paid......and what made them great was being able to win as "the guy". Thats why they never had to take a paycut to win cause even without taking one they still won.....unlike some other players.


So the answer is NO...because they didn't have to they still won without taking a paycut.

Raps08-09 Champ
07-11-2010, 03:56 PM
Its the truth....whats made them great is whats getting them paid......and what made them great was being able to win as "the guy".

But if the Heat win this year and Lebron won Finals MVP, we both know that you would have something else to say.

Jaji
07-11-2010, 03:57 PM
I get tired of hearing people say, "Oh, LeBron took less;" "Chris Bosh took less." What are we talking about here folks? We are talking about a little over 100 million vs 120 million. Are these guys going to go hungry even with signing for 100 million? Come on! It isn't like we are talking say taking $20,000 as compared to $100,000.

They're still leaving millions on the table. You sound like a kid with a dollar who doesn't want another one because you "already have a dollar." They're passing up a lot of money.

CHAD27
07-11-2010, 03:58 PM
in your opinion, would kobe and shaq have left money on the table in other to win a championship? Keep in mind, shaq/kobe split up primarily because neither want to take a pay cut. People calling lebron names, need to know that he did something neither kobe nor shaq ever did for the lakers.

In your opinion, do you think kobe or shaq would sacrifice for a championship?

lebron didnt leave a dime if you consider them not having income taxes now! He didnt leave anything except the chance to become a legend. Now he will just be a hall of famer.

Kobe does both, gets paid and wins championships

allvalleychamp
07-11-2010, 03:59 PM
It doesn't matter how much it is. Bottom line, they were entitled to more and they accepted less. Bron and Bosh left $50 Million on the table between them. WOULD YOU?:confused:

I would because the endorsement money is so high, but this is why I don't understand the outrage at Lebron. I think it is commendable that he, Bosh and Wade put money aside, ego aside, 'my team' aside to try to win. Very few athletes make these types of sacrifices (at least until they are at the very end of their career). I gained a lot of respect for these guys showing that money isnt #1 to them.

Also, while I'm not a big fan of Lebron's 1 hour special, all the proceeds went to the Boys & Girls club. An organization that does a lot for the kids. If Lebron didn't do that would ESPN have still given that hour to talking about Lebrons decision? Yup! Would the Boys and Girls club gotten anything from that? Nope! Work the system for the kids Lebron!

RCarlson85
07-11-2010, 04:00 PM
Hell no to both. They have 2 of the biggest egos in the NBA, if not the 2 biggest.

McPeak92
07-11-2010, 04:00 PM
All I gotta say is Kobe knows what it takes to get a ring a hell of a lot more than LeBron. pc.

dnewguy
07-11-2010, 04:02 PM
I would because the endorsement money is so high, but this is why I don't understand the outrage at Lebron. I think it is commendable that he, Bosh and Wade put money aside, ego aside, 'my team' aside to try to win. Very few athletes make these types of sacrifices (at least until they are at the very end of their career). I gained a lot of respect for these guys showing that money isnt #1 to them.

Also, while I'm not a big fan of Lebron's 1 hour special, all the proceeds went to the Boys & Girls club. An organization that does a lot for the kids. If Lebron didn't do that would ESPN have still given that hour to talking about Lebrons decision? Yup! Would the Boys and Girls club gotten anything from that? Nope! Work the system for the kids Lebron!

I wish I can make my argument as intelligently as you made yours...I agree 100%

DCB/LAL
07-11-2010, 04:03 PM
But if the Heat win this year and Lebron won Finals MVP, we both know that you would have something else to say.

Its not his team....it'd be like Tony Parker winning MVP even though everyone knew it was TD team.

DCB/LAL
07-11-2010, 04:04 PM
Hell no to both. They have 2 of the biggest egos in the NBA, if not the 2 biggest.

Yet they have 9 Championships together AND never had to take a paycut to get them....go firgure. :rolleyes:

allvalleychamp
07-11-2010, 04:04 PM
Its the truth....whats made them great is whats getting them paid......and what made them great was being able to win as "the guy". Thats why they never had to take a paycut to win cause even without taking one they still won.....unlike some other players.


So the answer is NO...because they didn't have to they still won without taking a paycut.

So they are somehow better because they greedily take more money making it harder for the average fan to attend a game? great logic there! WHO NEEDS over $20 million a year (while people who do very important work in this country often get paid 0.1% of that)...broken system

Raps08-09 Champ
07-11-2010, 04:05 PM
Its not his team....it'd be like Tony Parker winning MVP even though everyone knew it was TD team.

So if Lebron is the best player on that team, does the most to get them to the finals and does most to win them the title, he still doesn't deserve it?

DCB/LAL
07-11-2010, 04:09 PM
So they are somehow better because they greedily take more money making it harder for the average fan to attend a game? great logic there! WHO NEEDS over $20 million a year (while people who do very important work in this country often get paid 0.1% of that)...broken system

Hey when your winning championships its gonna get harder for the average fan to attend a game regardless.....their better because they actually WON TITLES they were never put in a posistion where they felt they needed to take a paycut to win.

allvalleychamp
07-11-2010, 04:09 PM
lebron didnt leave a dime if you consider them not having income taxes now! He didnt leave anything except the chance to become a legend. Now he will just be a hall of famer.

Kobe does both, gets paid and wins championships

How much do you think state income taxation is? I'm not sure what Ohio charges but CA is one of the highest if not the highest at just over 9%. So lets call it 10% and say Lebron instead of his 110mil got 121 million in CLE. He could have done a sign and trade to MIA for about $130mil. So that is at least 9 mil but I imagine more like 14-15 mil left on the table...about enough for Bosh to join him and Wade...

DCB/LAL
07-11-2010, 04:09 PM
So if Lebron is the best player on that team, does the most to get them to the finals and does most to win them the title, he still doesn't deserve it?

Thats undebatable....its Wade's team. No Questions asked.

allvalleychamp
07-11-2010, 04:12 PM
Hey when your winning championships its gonna get harder for the average fan to attend a game regardless.....their better because they actually WON TITLES they were never put in a posistion where they felt they needed to take a paycut to win.

Warriors have been raising their ticket prices every year and havent been close to a championship...when you have a $60mil + payroll for a basketball team thats a problem...and the fact im guessing an average person like yourself is upset at a basketball player for not trying to get $20mil a year just seems silly to me...perhaps you should think about where all the money goes when your wages stay flat and your health care costs raise and your retirement is not the solid pensions of a generation ago-
In the end someone has to pay for the greed of others...

Hawkeye15
07-11-2010, 04:15 PM
No they didn't have to they were both good enough to win on their own and that has earned them every penny they've got today.....being able to win.

totally. Cause Shaq having Kobe, Kobe having Shaq, and Wade, Gasol, Odom, Bynum, are all totally role players.

this is a laughable statement dude, and you know that

Gambeezy
07-11-2010, 04:17 PM
No to Shaq. Period.

Kobe is a different story. He is a competitor to the core. I don't think he would take a paycut if he were Bron/Bosh/Wade's age but at his age now, I think he would do it to win a championship. (Don't think he has to worry about that though since the Lakers have had the League on it's knees for 3 years now).

Googlyeyes101
07-11-2010, 04:17 PM
Hey when your winning championships its gonna get harder for the average fan to attend a game regardless.....their better because they actually WON TITLES they were never put in a posistion where they felt they needed to take a paycut to win.

my sentiments exactly, who cares if they would take a paycut when they can win without taking one...we'll never kno now if lbj could win a title by himself

and lets be honest, everyone knows the marketability of these 3 is going to spike the money that these guys are going to make, lbj is in a bigger market and these three names will be brought up when anyone talks about the nba, they'll make that "paycut" money up instantly...

DCB/LAL
07-11-2010, 04:17 PM
Warriors have been raising their ticket prices every year and havent been close to a championship...when you have a $60mil + payroll for a basketball team thats a problem...and the fact im guessing an average person like yourself is upset at a basketball player for not trying to get $20mil a year just seems silly to me...perhaps you should think about where all the money goes when your wages stay flat and your health care costs raise and your retirement is not the solid pensions of a generation ago-
In the end someone has to pay for the greed of others...

Warriors have nothing to do with this.....Kobe or Shaq didn't play for the Warriors. The question was would Shaq or Kobe take a paycut to win.....the ANSWER is NO BECAUSE THEY NEVER HAD TO.


Neither of them has taken a paycut and between the two they have 9 championships.....they've done just fine. I understand why Wade, Bosh and Lebron took one though they needed to take paycuts to get to the status and level of a Micheal Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Shaq, Magic etc..... because done it as the "alpha" was just too hard a task for them to acheive.....everyone understands that.

Jezeble
07-11-2010, 04:17 PM
All I gotta say is Kobe knows what it takes to get a ring a hell of a lot more than LeBron. pc.

Yep, he sure does! Use the most prominent/dominant player at the time in the League -- Shaq -- and when you are done with him, stab him in the back and get rid of him. Next, when u realize that u are not the man u thought u were and u can't win on your own, you sulk and bytch, demand a trade, and make parking lot videos. Then when you finally get another dominant/quality player, you gripe and moan through the adjustment period, and quit in games to prove you are still the man.

Then finally, when a depleted Celtics team misses the finals you win one against an inexperienced Orlando team. Then the next year, you squeak through the finals on some suspicious calls and win another.

YEP, RECIPE FOR SUCCESS. Bottle it and sell it Kobe.:clap:

Hawkeye15
07-11-2010, 04:17 PM
Its not his team....it'd be like Tony Parker winning MVP even though everyone knew it was TD team.

if LeBron puts up the best numbers on the team, it IS his team

Mr LaFontaine
07-11-2010, 04:18 PM
The Nba is teetering on the line of giving control of the league to 3 players...

apocalypse15
07-11-2010, 04:19 PM
Pay cuts???? Really? If all they wanted to do was win they wouldn't ask veterans who been in the league for years to take pennies compared to what they are making. As for Shaq and Kobe... Why take a pay cut when they both continued winning? Wade is the only winner out of the 3 and he took less money than the other 2. To myself I thought the smartest move would be to take 10 Mil each and have PLENTY of cap room to sign other players. Neither took a real pay cut. They did compared to what they made last year but if winning is everything, then we should have seen more come off the table. How many of us could live off of 1 million per year? Exactly. They are still making 13-15 million a year. Get real, this whole pay cut talk is non-sense.

Hawkeye15
07-11-2010, 04:19 PM
Thats undebatable....its Wade's team. No Questions asked.

why, because he was the leader of the Heat for the last 7 years? Guess what, if LeBron outplays him, its LeBron's team. No questions asked.

DCB/LAL
07-11-2010, 04:21 PM
totally. Cause Shaq having Kobe, Kobe having Shaq, and Wade, Gasol, Odom, Bynum, are all totally role players.

this is a laughable statement dude, and you know that

So your saying Kobe was "the man" on that first Lakers threepeat?? Or that Gasol Odom or Bynum are the "the man" on the Lakers squad now? If not then you have no argument.

DCB/LAL
07-11-2010, 04:23 PM
why, because he was the leader of the Heat for the last 7 years? Guess what, if LeBron outplays him, its LeBron's team. No questions asked.

Its Wade's team....Wade is no bum so dont act like he is. As far as star status goes and production Wade is up there with Lebron it'd be like Lebron joining the Lakers it would still be Kobe's team.

LakeShowRaider
07-11-2010, 04:23 PM
He nor Wade or Bosh left **** on the table. They signed in Miami where they have a tax exepemtion. So they're actually making a million dollars more over the life of the contract.

Don't believe me? Look it up and think twice before you question a champion.

LAsports818
07-11-2010, 04:25 PM
Champions don't take pay cuts! They earned their money! Btw I'm sure Nike has a deal in place with Wade Bosh and James to more than make up any money they left on the table with miami. If you guys think pat riley did this himself you guys are being naive!

allvalleychamp
07-11-2010, 04:25 PM
Pay cuts???? Really? If all they wanted to do was win they wouldn't ask veterans who been in the league for years to take pennies compared to what they are making. As for Shaq and Kobe... Why take a pay cut when they both continued winning? Wade is the only winner out of the 3 and he took less money than the other 2. To myself I thought the smartest move would be to take 10 Mil each and have PLENTY of cap room to sign other players. Neither took a real pay cut. They did compared to what they made last year but if winning is everything, then we should have seen more come off the table. How many of us could live off of 1 million per year? Exactly. They are still making 13-15 million a year. Get real, this whole pay cut talk is non-sense.

i like the sentiment of this and just don't understand why people are arguing they shouldn't take ONLY $13-15 mil a year- like they are lesser players or champions because they gave up a few million to make way more than they could possibly need

Googlyeyes101
07-11-2010, 04:25 PM
Yep, he sure does! Use the most prominent/dominant player at the time in the League -- Shaq -- and when you are done with him, stab him in the back and get rid of him. Next, when u realize that u are not the man u thought u were and u can't win on your own, you sulk and bytch, demand a trade, and make parking lot videos. Then when you finally get another dominant/quality player, you gripe and moan through the adjustment period, and quit in games to prove you are still the man.

Then finally, when a depleted Celtics team misses the finals you win one against an inexperienced Orlando team. Then the next year, you squeak through the finals on some suspicious calls and win another.

YEP, RECIPE FOR SUCCESS. Bottle it and sell it Kobe.:clap:

damn son you don't just stumble upon 5 rings

marques724
07-11-2010, 04:26 PM
He nor Wade or Bosh left **** on the table. They signed in Miami where they have a tax exepemtion. So they're actually making a million dollars more over the life of the contract.

Don't believe me? Look it up and think twice before you question a champion.

Not to mention that Lebron doesn't have to pay state taxes on his endorsement money either since Florida will become his primary residence. The whole taking less money is overrated when it comes to Lebron and Bosh. Now D-Wade took a pay-cut.

allvalleychamp
07-11-2010, 04:27 PM
He nor Wade or Bosh left **** on the table. They signed in Miami where they have a tax exepemtion. So they're actually making a million dollars more over the life of the contract.

Don't believe me? Look it up and think twice before you question a champion.

not true...i just posted on the difference in tax...remember FL is not federal and state tax free just state tax free which is probably between 3-9%...they left about $20million from the max over the life of the contract

Jezeble
07-11-2010, 04:28 PM
The Nba is teetering on the line of giving control of the league to 3 players...

Funny you guys weren't saying this when the Celtics landed KG and RayRay to go along with Pierce. Quit griping. Let them play. Just beat them if you can. The NBA put this in motion with the questionable movement of players to shore up the Celtics and Lakers. They did nothing then, they should do the same now. Except they should fine Dan Gilbert. Had Mark Cuban behaved thusly, he would have been fined immediately.:rolleyes:

Jezeble
07-11-2010, 04:31 PM
damn son you don't just stumble upon 5 rings

Nope, u connive your way into them. You use and abuse others, and at the end of the day, hold your hands up and say see, all this is me!

...And that's "Daughter" to you.;)

Raps08-09 Champ
07-11-2010, 04:31 PM
Thats undebatable....its Wade's team. No Questions asked.

It's Wade's team only because he was there first. And that doesn't mean that Lebron should be discredited for joining a team late.

Kareem and Magic were on the same team together and Abdul was there first. The Lakers started winning and Magic won the Finals MVP. But most of Laker fans say it's Magic's team instead of Abdul-Jabbar

hawkjeff
07-11-2010, 04:32 PM
I'm really tired of hearing how selfless these guys were, and particularly in regards to Lebron. Had he offered to sign with the Cavs for half as much money so they could put a winning team around him, I could understand the calls of dedication to winning. In the case of signing with his pals in Miami, he didn't take a pay cut to make certain the team would be better, he did so to be certain that he and his friends would be able to play together. He did so at the expense of parity in the NBA. The move is a classic in a world so enamored with capitalism and yet so quick to celebrate the abuse of such systems. The foxes rule the chicken coop in other businesses so why not in this one? Free agency is a free market system and three of the players in that system colluded with one another and with Miami management to assure that they could play together. (Though perhaps the most disconcerting thing in all this is that the rest of the league continued to help them pull off this massacre of fair play by agreeing to sign/trades as well as trades to accept players who would have weighed down Miami's ability to make good on this dream of a winning crew.)

If Lebron and friends are right that some magical joining of supposedly great players will assure multiple championships, then they have done a disservice to all of basketball by creating a Harlem Globetrotter-like side show of the whole of the NBA. If they are wrong and it is a lot more difficult than a few good players to make a great basketball team, then they have systematically disemboweled the free agency system in favor of creating a three-ring circus out of their decision to play with friends.

I don't think these guys should be the most hated young men in the world, nor do I feel they should be lauded for their supposed selfless efforts to win. I'm sure others' would make similarly selfish decisions and have throughout history. Still, it seems to be a sign of the world we're currently living in that young men coming into their own show no sense of loyalty, no sense of fair play, and that they put winning, no matter how that win looks or comes, above all else.

My hope is that the rest of the NBA can teach the Miami Heat a lesson that there is more to building a championship team than bringing in a few young ego-maniacs.

knickfan4life
07-11-2010, 04:32 PM
they didnt need 2. they got the best of both worlds

DCB/LAL
07-11-2010, 04:33 PM
Nope, u connive your way into them. You use and abuse others, and at the end of the day, hold your hands up and say see, all this is me!

...And that's "Daughter" to you.;)

And guess what? He's done all that without having to take a paycut so the answer is STILL NO. Say what you like but Kobe has won 5 titles without ever having to take a paycut.

Raps08-09 Champ
07-11-2010, 04:35 PM
Its Wade's team....Wade is no bum so dont act like he is. As far as star status goes and production Wade is up there with Lebron it'd be like Lebron joining the Lakers it would still be Kobe's team.

Lol you not listening.

If Lebron joined the Heat and does more than Wade to lead the Heat to sucess, it's Lebrons team.

Jezeble
07-11-2010, 04:36 PM
And guess what? He's done all that without having to take a paycut so the answer is STILL NO. Say what you like but Kobe has won 5 titles without ever having to take a paycut.

Well, you know what they say, GREED IS THE GREATEST MOTIVATOR!:D

Illinirob83
07-11-2010, 04:36 PM
LBJ is leaving like 500,000 dollars off the table once you factor in the income taxes. And these guys are getting a ridiculous amount of money anyway....it is all semantics after a certain number. The crime is.......LBJ, the league's supposed "best" player, TOOK LESS to join a "superteam" to go ring chasing in Wade's county. That shouldn't be considered a good thing. If he decided to take the league min....then we are talking. The f'n guy is still took a 6 year 110 million dollar deal. If anyone should be talking about a guy taking "less" than what he couldve made is Wade. He took less than both LBJ and Bosh.

skinnedalive!!
07-11-2010, 04:38 PM
In your opinion, would Kobe and Shaq have left money on the table in other to win a Championship? Keep in mind, Shaq/Kobe split up primarily because neither want to take a pay cut. people calling Lebron names, need to know that he did something neither Kobe nor Shaq ever did for the Lakers.

In your opinion, do you think Kobe or Shaq would sacrifice for a championship?

Kobe doesn't need to because he is the man on his team and doesn't need to defer to other high paid talent. Kobe is a competitor and can get paid at the same time. Don't go shedding any tears for these guys because they sacrificed money for a ring. They got stupid money and only one of them has ever really carried a team to a ring.

Illinirob83
07-11-2010, 04:39 PM
Lol you not listening.

If Lebron joined the Heat and does more than Wade to lead the Heat to sucess, it's Lebrons team.

It will never be lbj's team....ever. A miami writer spoke recently how Wade is Jeter and LBJ is Arod. That Wade is the face of Miami, and fans know this was his and Riley's doing. Wade is older, LBJ looks up to him.....hell Wade spoke for LBJ just recently while defending James' brand and "legacy". Wade has already won the title in MIA as the man and no matter how many titles James wins in Miami.....wade will always have one more. Wade will always be the man in Miami.....go ask any true Heat fan and they would tell you the same thing.

Googlyeyes101
07-11-2010, 04:39 PM
Well, you know what they say, GREED IS THE GREATEST MOTIVATOR!:D

so kobe gets paid and gets rings is the moral of this thread

Raps08-09 Champ
07-11-2010, 04:40 PM
:laugh2:

The fact that people get so offended of Lebron amazes me.

Like WTF do you want from the man. Cuz you guys know you wouldn't be saying **** if he joined your team.

DCB/LAL
07-11-2010, 04:40 PM
Well, you know what they say, GREED IS THE GREATEST MOTIVATOR!:D

Well credit it to whatever you like but the fact still stands that they didn't have to take a paycut.

Illinirob83
07-11-2010, 04:40 PM
I'm really tired of hearing how selfless these guys were, and particularly in regards to Lebron. Had he offered to sign with the Cavs for half as much money so they could put a winning team around him, I could understand the calls of dedication to winning. In the case of signing with his pals in Miami, he didn't take a pay cut to make certain the team would be better, he did so to be certain that he and his friends would be able to play together. He did so at the expense of parity in the NBA. The move is a classic in a world so enamored with capitalism and yet so quick to celebrate the abuse of such systems. The foxes rule the chicken coop in other businesses so why not in this one? Free agency is a free market system and three of the players in that system colluded with one another and with Miami management to assure that they could play together. (Though perhaps the most disconcerting thing in all this is that the rest of the league continued to help them pull off this massacre of fair play by agreeing to sign/trades as well as trades to accept players who would have weighed down Miami's ability to make good on this dream of a winning crew.)

If Lebron and friends are right that some magical joining of supposedly great players will assure multiple championships, then they have done a disservice to all of basketball by creating a Harlem Globetrotter-like side show of the whole of the NBA. If they are wrong and it is a lot more difficult than a few good players to make a great basketball team, then they have systematically disemboweled the free agency system in favor of creating a three-ring circus out of their decision to play with friends.

I don't think these guys should be the most hated young men in the world, nor do I feel they should be lauded for their supposed selfless efforts to win. I'm sure others' would make similarly selfish decisions and have throughout history. Still, it seems to be a sign of the world we're currently living in that young men coming into their own show no sense of loyalty, no sense of fair play, and that they put winning, no matter how that win looks or comes, above all else.

My hope is that the rest of the NBA can teach the Miami Heat a lesson that there is more to building a championship team than bringing in a few young ego-maniacs.

:clap::clap::clap:

Jezeble
07-11-2010, 04:40 PM
I'm really tired of hearing how selfless these guys were, and particularly in regards to Lebron. Had he offered to sign with the Cavs for half as much money so they could put a winning team around him, I could understand the calls of dedication to winning. In the case of signing with his pals in Miami, he didn't take a pay cut to make certain the team would be better, he did so to be certain that he and his friends would be able to play together. He did so at the expense of parity in the NBA. The move is a classic in a world so enamored with capitalism and yet so quick to celebrate the abuse of such systems. The foxes rule the chicken coop in other businesses so why not in this one? Free agency is a free market system and three of the players in that system colluded with one another and with Miami management to assure that they could play together. (Though perhaps the most disconcerting thing in all this is that the rest of the league continued to help them pull off this massacre of fair play by agreeing to sign/trades as well as trades to accept players who would have weighed down Miami's ability to make good on this dream of a winning crew.)

If Lebron and friends are right that some magical joining of supposedly great players will assure multiple championships, then they have done a disservice to all of basketball by creating a Harlem Globetrotter-like side show of the whole of the NBA. If they are wrong and it is a lot more difficult than a few good players to make a great basketball team, then they have systematically disemboweled the free agency system in favor of creating a three-ring circus out of their decision to play with friends.

I don't think these guys should be the most hated young men in the world, nor do I feel they should be lauded for their supposed selfless efforts to win. I'm sure others' would make similarly selfish decisions and have throughout history. Still, it seems to be a sign of the world we're currently living in that young men coming into their own show no sense of loyalty, no sense of fair play, and that they put winning, no matter how that win looks or comes, above all else.

My hope is that the rest of the NBA can teach the Miami Heat a lesson that there is more to building a championship team than bringing in a few young ego-maniacs.

Yeah? Too bad nobody told Danny Ainge and the Celtics this. They set an example that was pretty hard to ignore. Get a big-3 and its literally in the bag! Guess someone was paying attention in class! Pat Riley??:p

DCB/LAL
07-11-2010, 04:41 PM
Lol you not listening.

If Lebron joined the Heat and does more than Wade to lead the Heat to sucess, it's Lebrons team.

No its Wade's team like I said theres no debating it right now....you want me to go on "what ifs" too?

Hawkeye15
07-11-2010, 04:41 PM
So your saying Kobe was "the man" on that first Lakers threepeat?? Or that Gasol Odom or Bynum are the "the man" on the Lakers squad now? If not then you have no argument.

what are we talking about here? You said Shaq and Kobe were good enough to win on their own. When clearly, every championship they have won, another top 10 player was alongside of them. So you are the one with no argument here

Hawkeye15
07-11-2010, 04:43 PM
Its Wade's team....Wade is no bum so dont act like he is. As far as star status goes and production Wade is up there with Lebron it'd be like Lebron joining the Lakers it would still be Kobe's team.

Wade is far from a bum. He is the 2nd best player in the NBA. But he doesn't deserve to be rewarded for his team hatching a plan a while back, and being the one to clear the necessary space to do this. The leader of a team is the best player. Whomever wins that title next year is the leader of the Heat. The names don't matter

Illinirob83
07-11-2010, 04:45 PM
Anyone comparing the Boston big three and this "big 3" just has their blinders on. Things were completely different, in completely different situations, at completely different times in those guys' careers. They didn't conspire for years to come together in the mid-20's and go to a crap basketball city to go ring chasing. In the Celts situation, Ainge had to go make TRADES....made deals to get that together. Ray Allen and Garnett were getting to the end of their primes, if not past their primes already. But c'mon....it is comparing apples and oranges. Ainge had to basically trade a very good prospect in Al Jefferson, and they traded their #5 which was Jeff Green to even be able to talk to those two organizations about those players.

Jezeble
07-11-2010, 04:46 PM
LBJ is leaving like 500,000 dollars off the table once you factor in the income taxes. And these guys are getting a ridiculous amount of money anyway....it is all semantics after a certain number. The crime is.......LBJ, the league's supposed "best" player, TOOK LESS to join a "superteam" to go ring chasing in Wade's county. That shouldn't be considered a good thing. If he decided to take the league min....then we are talking. The f'n guy is still took a 6 year 110 million dollar deal. If anyone should be talking about a guy taking "less" than what he couldve made is Wade. He took less than both LBJ and Bosh.

If you say so. Only time will tell. People will always amaze you, and if its one thing I know, its that people are quick to forget. Let's see who's right in the long run. Because I guarantee you, that once they win a championship, people are going to remember the lean years with only Wade, and thank LBJ for being their savior. Just wait for it...

so_cal_watcher
07-11-2010, 04:47 PM
Pay cuts???? Really? If all they wanted to do was win they wouldn't ask veterans who been in the league for years to take pennies compared to what they are making. As for Shaq and Kobe... Why take a pay cut when they both continued winning? Wade is the only winner out of the 3 and he took less money than the other 2. To myself I thought the smartest move would be to take 10 Mil each and have PLENTY of cap room to sign other players. Neither took a real pay cut. They did compared to what they made last year but if winning is everything, then we should have seen more come off the table. How many of us could live off of 1 million per year? Exactly. They are still making 13-15 million a year. Get real, this whole pay cut talk is non-sense.

Amen! They will make up the "lost" money in endorsements really quick.

Raps08-09 Champ
07-11-2010, 04:48 PM
It will never be lbj's team....ever. A miami writer spoke recently how Wade is Jeter and LBJ is Arod. That Wade is the face of Miami, and fans know this was his and Riley's doing. Wade is older, LBJ looks up to him.....hell Wade spoke for LBJ just recently while defending James' brand and "legacy". Wade has already won the title in MIA as the man and no matter how many titles James wins in Miami.....wade will always have one more. Wade will always be the man in Miami.....go ask any true Heat fan and they would tell you the same thing.

Wade won when he had a legit Shaq beside him all season. If Wade is such a winner like you say he is, where the **** was he this season? I'm not trying to discredit Wade but you acting like they were in the same situation. Lebron got to the Finals with arguably the shittiest team ever to reach the finals. Wade had a 20 and 10 Shaq who was still being tripled team beside him.

Even if Wade went to Cleveland instead, you'd be using the same ****ing excuse of "Wade should be the leader because he has 1 more ****ing ring".

JasonJohnHorn
07-11-2010, 04:50 PM
LBJ makes over 100 million a year off endorsements alone. Leaving money on the table? He could have left money on the table and gave the Cavs some cap space to sign the shooting guard they needed to win. He makes more off of endorsements than Wade and Bosh make playing basketball combine and then multiplied by three.

And besides, because of the taxes in Miami, they actually would be making about the same as they would have had they stayed in their respective cities, Bosh especially would have been taxed in Canada (trust me I live in canada, taxes are CRAZY!!! but bearable since we have free health care).

As for the question: would Shaq or Kobe leave money on the table: Answer: Shaq HAS left money on the table to win. IN MIAMI!!!! After his first year he worked out a contract extension where HE TOOK A PAY CUT in the last year or two of his contract, which had been fully guarunteed to help free up some cap space for the Heat, or help them avoid the luxry tax.

Would Kobe? He doesnt need to. He already had three rings before he was eligable for a max contract. Had he not won one yet I'm sure he would. Rings mean as much to ego as pay checks.

Question: Would Garnett ever take a pay cut to win a ring? He certainly didnt do it in minny.

Raps08-09 Champ
07-11-2010, 04:51 PM
Anyone comparing the Boston big three and this "big 3" just has their blinders on. Things were completely different, in completely different situations, at completely different times in those guys' careers. They didn't conspire for years to come together in the mid-20's and go to a crap basketball city to go ring chasing. In the Celts situation, Ainge had to go make TRADES....made deals to get that together. Ray Allen and Garnett were getting to the end of their primes, if not past their primes already. But c'mon....it is comparing apples and oranges. Ainge had to basically trade a very good prospect in Al Jefferson, and they traded their #5 which was Jeff Green to even be able to talk to those two organizations about those players.

Lol. So if these guys went in the end of their careers and they won, they'd still have to deal with the **** you giving right now and say stuff like "You didn't win in your prime so that ring is worthless" and other **** you say.

And I don't think there's any point of arguing with you.

FarOutIos
07-11-2010, 04:52 PM
I get tired of hearing people say, "Oh, LeBron took less;" "Chris Bosh took less." What are we talking about here folks? We are talking about a little over 100 million vs 120 million. Are these guys going to go hungry even with signing for 100 million? Come on! It isn't like we are talking say taking $20,000 as compared to $100,000.

Dude. That's still $20 Million. And if it's not a big deal, then why don't other players take the same pay cut?

rdz4life
07-11-2010, 04:56 PM
Would Kobe do it? that's the question.........Would Kobe take less money than Joe Johnson in order to win a ring?

Why would he???? He's already won 5 rings........
Lebron had to do it because he's been labeled the best player for several years, and has 0000000 rings!!!!!!!!!!!

DCB/LAL
07-11-2010, 04:56 PM
People are changing subjects here.....the ANSWER is still NO. Kobe and Shaq never had to take paycut to win so they would never do it. Maybe if they knew they weren't good enough to win on their own they would but I doubt that even then they would.....to much pride and confidence in their ability to win.

Jezeble
07-11-2010, 04:58 PM
Anyone comparing the Boston big three and this "big 3" just has their blinders on. Things were completely different, in completely different situations, at completely different times in those guys' careers. They didn't conspire for years to come together in the mid-20's and go to a crap basketball city to go ring chasing. In the Celts situation, Ainge had to go make TRADES....made deals to get that together. Ray Allen and Garnett were getting to the end of their primes, if not past their primes already. But c'mon....it is comparing apples and oranges. Ainge had to basically trade a very good prospect in Al Jefferson, and they traded their #5 which was Jeff Green to even be able to talk to those two organizations about those players.

First of all, you are speculating that they were conspiring for years. Secondly, there was conspiracy between Ainge and McHale to give away KG. As for Jefferson, he was worth KG, but they r now willing to get rid of him to any taker. Hmmmm...The age of the players is not the question here. I was comparing the concept of acquiring estalished star players to win championships intead of building from the ground up.

The situation is the same. One drafted top player -- Pierce -- surrounded by 2 top players acquired from another team. One drafted top player -- Wade -- surrounded by 2 top players acquired in FA -- Bron and Bosh. THERE!

JordansBulls
07-11-2010, 04:58 PM
In your opinion, would Kobe and Shaq have left money on the table in other to win a Championship? Keep in mind, Shaq/Kobe split up primarily because neither want to take a pay cut. people calling Lebron names, need to know that he did something neither Kobe nor Shaq ever did for the Lakers.

In your opinion, do you think Kobe or Shaq would sacrifice for a championship?

No, Shaq left Orlando to LA because LA was paying more.

Lakersfanla24
07-11-2010, 04:58 PM
Shaq hell no, and kobe not a cold chance in hell he would either. Do either of them have to with 9 rings between the 2? Thats a no either. Am i pissed the lakers wil be paying kobe 30+ million the next 3 years. Your god damn right i am.

snspacer31
07-11-2010, 04:58 PM
unfair question ... if lebron won a ring before leaving clevland i bet u he stays

Raps08-09 Champ
07-11-2010, 04:59 PM
:laugh:I don't get some of you people.

1 day, you say Lebron is too full of himself to take less money or join a team where he has to share the spotlight. Then when he does, there's more **** you throw at him.

Lakersfanla24
07-11-2010, 05:03 PM
:laugh:I don't get some of you people.

1 day, you say Lebron is too full of himself to take less money or join a team where he has to share the spotlight. Then when he does, there's more **** you throw at him.

now you know what laker fans feel like about the way kobe gets treated. Top 5 all time yet he still cant do right in some peoples eyes. And yes anyone who talks about themselves in the third person or wheres Check My $tats is clearly full of themselves.

tr4shb0t
07-11-2010, 05:06 PM
If he needs to be second fiddle to win that's on him.

Hawkeye15
07-11-2010, 05:07 PM
now you know what laker fans feel like about the way kobe gets treated. Top 5 all time yet he still cant do right in some peoples eyes. And yes anyone who talks about themselves in the third person or wheres Check My $tats is clearly full of themselves.

eh, I don't think he is top 5 of all time. And I think the public is more than forgiving considering Kobe's actions over the years.
And the reason Kobe gets treated poorly by a lot of people on this site, is BECAUSE of Laker fans. Many were totally indifferent to the Lakers or Kobe when they joined this site. The constant irrational baiting and arrogance of many of the Laker fans has made a lot of enemies. I feel bad for the rational Laker fans on here who end up feeling like they are smashing their head against the wall on this site, due to the many incompetent Laker fans that troll these boards.

Raps08-09 Champ
07-11-2010, 05:08 PM
now you know what laker fans feel like about the way kobe gets treated. Top 5 all time yet he still cant do right in some peoples eyes. And yes anyone who talks about themselves in the third person or wheres Check My $tats is clearly full of themselves.

But you guys hype the man too much. Hell I love Kobe but that **** you say sometimes is whack. 1 day, you say Lebron isn't better than Kobe because he doesn't have more titles. But then I ask that same person who's better between Jordan(6 rings) or Bryant(5 rings) and that same guy makes an excuse why Kobe is better and that you can't use rings as a measuring stick.

Just because they are full of yourself doesn't mean you discredit a person. There are so much people who talk **** but you shouldn't discredit them. The fact that you discredit someone's talent because they do something that isn't even part of the game is sad.

Raps08-09 Champ
07-11-2010, 05:10 PM
:eyebrow:

Come on bro. I guess mature adults tell other adults to "stop speaking gibberish" if they can't understand what someone is saying.

TheTakeOver24
07-11-2010, 05:10 PM
i believe Shaq did take a paycut the year of or the year before the championship.

but those who mention the no income tax, the bottom line is they could have taken more money but they didnt.

Rocco007
07-11-2010, 05:11 PM
In your opinion, would Kobe and Shaq have left money on the table in other to win a Championship? Keep in mind, Shaq/Kobe split up primarily because neither want to take a pay cut. people calling Lebron names, need to know that he did something neither Kobe nor Shaq ever did for the Lakers.

In your opinion, do you think Kobe or Shaq would sacrifice for a championship?

-------------------------------

The Math has already been done...
LeBron James will actually make 1 million more dollars over the life of this contract than he would have made in Cleveland...
How?
He avoids State and City Taxes in Miami, Florida...not so in Cleveland, Ohio...

BayHuStLE
07-11-2010, 05:12 PM
Neither of them need to leave money to get another ring, they both have multiple, and shaq is probably going to go for the most money, because it may be his last contract

CALIABQLKRS
07-11-2010, 05:16 PM
It doesn't matter how much it is. Bottom line, they were entitled to more and they accepted less. Bron and Bosh left $50 Million on the table between them. WOULD YOU?:confused:

Boy heat fans are getting more and more ******** by the minute! Lol I luv how most of these "fans" are getting real cocky now... oh well if the three musketeers wanna take a few million less in order to try to beat my lakers. Im all for it! Bring it on. Last time I checked the lakers are the going for a 3peat. I cant wait for the season to start.

But to answer your question of taking less money to win a ring? Lol Kobe has 5 rings, shaq has 4.. They are winners. The lakers paid them to win rings and delivered. So far wade, bosh, and lebron have just 1 combined. So stop all the talk about taking less money to win a ring.. cuz they havent won ******* yet! Right now its all talk. Win sum rings first, then u can trash talk all u want. But until then heat "fans" shhhhh ur making yourself look stupid. Sorry.;)

TheBay30
07-11-2010, 05:17 PM
LeBRON would be making more money in Miami anyways cause theres no Tax

Jezeble
07-11-2010, 05:24 PM
Boy heat fans are getting more and more ******** by the minute! Lol I luv how most of these "fans" are getting real cocky now... oh well if the three musketeers wanna take a few million less in order to try to beat my lakers. Im all for it! Bring it on. Last time I checked the lakers are the going for a 3peat. I cant wait for the season to start.

But to answer your question of taking less money to win a ring? Lol Kobe has 5 rings, shaq has 4.. They are winners. The lakers paid them to win rings and delivered. So far wade, bosh, and lebron have just 1 combined. So stop all the talk about taking less money to win a ring.. cuz they havent won ******* yet! Right now its all talk. Win sum rings first, then u can trash talk all u want. But until then heat "fans" shhhhh ur making yourself look stupid. Sorry.;)

First, before you brand me a Heat fan, do your due diligence. Nothing could be further from the truth. Please rememer, the race is not for the swift, but for the sure. History has yet to be written for these guys. At the end of the day, if you are holding that trophy with a championship MVP, i guess you can call yourself a winner. Well Kobe has his, lets see how many LeBron gets. I can play the waiting game can you? You see, Kobe did. He bided his time for a Pau to come along, after he booted Shaq. Its just time and opportunity. That's all.:rolleyes:

knickfan33
07-11-2010, 05:30 PM
In your opinion, would Kobe and Shaq have left money on the table in other to win a Championship? Keep in mind, Shaq/Kobe split up primarily because neither want to take a pay cut. people calling Lebron names, need to know that he did something neither Kobe nor Shaq ever did for the Lakers.

In your opinion, do you think Kobe or Shaq would sacrifice for a championship?

they split up because they both though it was there team, shaq would leave money on the table at this point in hnis career.. kobe wouldnt... and doesnt need to, he wins championships without signing to super teams.

PS.. All 3 miami guys got pretty close to max contracts because of the sign and trades, and Lebrons one hour special was only interupted with Lebron vitamin water commercials...then when he sat down to make his desicion, he was drinking a vitamin water... it was an hour long add for vitamin water....

ITS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY...

PS again they could have went anywhere together, they went to the one team where there is no state income tax...money

Bruno
07-11-2010, 05:31 PM
Difference being Kobe and Shaq were already winning titles before salary was ever even an issue.

1999-2000
Kobe- 9 million
Shaq- 17.1

2000-2001
Kobe-10.1
Shaq- 19.2

2001-2002
Kobe- 21.4
Shaq- 11.2

As much as you try to make it, it's just not that comparable of a situation. Shaq wasn't worth 20 million dollars from 2005 on. He showed up fat and overweight before the start of every season from 2003 on, and if it weren't for DWades best ever-all time finals showing in 2006 Shaq would still have three titles and people would be able to recognize that.

Plus, guys who are proven and just won three rings in a row shouldn't have to take a pay cut.

Dallas Tx4Life
07-11-2010, 05:32 PM
Would Kobe do it? that's the question.........Would Kobe take less money than Joe Johnson in order to win a ring?

EXACTLY... kobe would rape your wife for telling him to take less money

REALLYYYYY?
07-11-2010, 05:33 PM
so basically the question is would kobe and shaq buy a championship?

BringingtheHeat
07-11-2010, 05:36 PM
i believe Shaq did take a paycut the year of or the year before the championship.

Yeah he did. That was the year when we brought in Posey, Williams & Walker.

bomber0104
07-11-2010, 05:37 PM
People have to realize that when you take out Taxes.. the sacrifice become very minimal

and for a guy like Bosh, the difference in endorsement money he is gonna get from signing with the heat dwarfs the money he left on the table

Bruno
07-11-2010, 05:42 PM
People have to realize that when you take out Taxes.. the sacrifice become very minimal

and for a guy like Bosh, the difference in endorsement money he is gonna get from signing with the heat dwarfs the money he left on the table

No estate tax is huge. :clap::clap:

RapOZo
07-11-2010, 05:57 PM
how sad it is when desperation make you leave your team where you know they need you, where you are the man, but u turn your back on your people, even take less money just to get some of it, to me is just like cheating, is not something that was build with time and hard work, is just something that you push it because you are desperate and needed a shortcut.

Dallas Tx4Life
07-11-2010, 05:59 PM
how sad it is when desperation make you leave your team where you know they need you, where you are the man, but u turn your back on your people, even take less money just to get some of it, to me is just like cheating, is not something that was build with time and hard work, is just something that you push it because you are desperate and needed a shortcut.

ahahhaha please please PLEASE tell me youre kidding.... its "CHEATING"?!?!? to join another team in a completely legal manner?!? you should edit that post and just put a couple periods instead

magichatnumber9
07-11-2010, 06:03 PM
You will see that Kobe is worth every dime when he sends the heat home during the finals.

Illinirob83
07-11-2010, 06:03 PM
Wade won when he had a legit Shaq beside him all season. If Wade is such a winner like you say he is, where the **** was he this season? I'm not trying to discredit Wade but you acting like they were in the same situation. Lebron got to the Finals with arguably the shittiest team ever to reach the finals. Wade had a 20 and 10 Shaq who was still being tripled team beside him.

Even if Wade went to Cleveland instead, you'd be using the same ****ing excuse of "Wade should be the leader because he has 1 more ****ing ring".

Wade got the 5 seed with one of the worst supporting casts in all of basketball. I AM TALKING ABOUT BEING "THE MAN" on a champion. Shaq was still really good, but he wasn't the shaq of the early part of the decade at all. I enjoyed Wade's playoff run more than any player maybe sense the '97 Jordan season. He was awesome throughout the playoffs that year and was incredible in the Finals. Shaq was his Robin and Wade was the batman. Duh.

gangis2169
07-11-2010, 06:04 PM
In your opinion, would Kobe and Shaq have left money on the table in other to win a Championship? Keep in mind, Shaq/Kobe split up primarily because neither want to take a pay cut. people calling Lebron names, need to know that he did something neither Kobe nor Shaq ever did for the Lakers.

In your opinion, do you think Kobe or Shaq would sacrifice for a championship?

:facepalm::facepalm:
You do know that Lebron is going to make alot more money with endorsements and business opertunities in Miami right? Whay are we talking like this guy did something so genuine like taking less money???? He knew that he could sacrafice 15-25 Mil on his contract to get back 200-300 Mil on endorsements and Business opertunities. Please lets put to rest the "well they took less money" talk when we all know he will make so much more money in Miami than Cleveland.

Dallas Tx4Life
07-11-2010, 06:06 PM
Wade got the 5 seed with one of the worst supporting casts in all of basketball. I AM TALKING ABOUT BEING "THE MAN" on a champion. Shaq was still really good, but he wasn't the shaq of the early part of the decade at all. I enjoyed Wade's playoff run more than any player maybe sense the '97 Jordan season. He was awesome throughout the playoffs that year and was incredible in the Finals. Shaq was his Robin and Wade was the batman. Duh.

true.... but the refs will forever taint that in my mind... stern had bets on those games just like the refs did.. there was more money for the nba to make from wade winning rather than the mavs

Illinirob83
07-11-2010, 06:06 PM
Lol. So if these guys went in the end of their careers and they won, they'd still have to deal with the **** you giving right now and say stuff like "You didn't win in your prime so that ring is worthless" and other **** you say.

And I don't think there's any point of arguing with you.

you're right there is no point of arguing because apparently you can't comprehend, or have very good perspective at all. And please..don't put words in my mouth again that is a terrible way to go about discussing things on an internet forum for f sake. I never once said any ring is worthless, and I certainly never said the Boston ring was worthless.....so again, read slower and comprehend better next time.

Illinirob83
07-11-2010, 06:10 PM
First of all, you are speculating that they were conspiring for years. Secondly, there was conspiracy between Ainge and McHale to give away KG. As for Jefferson, he was worth KG, but they r now willing to get rid of him to any taker. Hmmmm...The age of the players is not the question here. I was comparing the concept of acquiring estalished star players to win championships intead of building from the ground up.

The situation is the same. One drafted top player -- Pierce -- surrounded by 2 top players acquired from another team. One drafted top player -- Wade -- surrounded by 2 top players acquired in FA -- Bron and Bosh. THERE!

Age is a very important component. Was Allen and Garnett top 3 players in the NBA when they went to Boston? You can't just poo poo the fact that basketball decisions and trades had to happen to get that to work. If Boston didn't have Al Jefferson than Garnett is never a Celtic. If the Celtics won the lottery, or got in the top two that year instead of #5, they wouldn't have ever traded it for Ray Allen...who obviously wasn't the same Ray Alen of the early part of the decade. There was actually basketball moves and decisions made. It wasn't a bunch of olympians conspiring to join forces in their primes to run the NBA. How can anyone not see the gigantic difference between these two? It is pretty obvious.

gangis2169
07-11-2010, 06:11 PM
People forget that Kobe's salary put the Lakers in a limbo and had to settle for talents like Kwame Brown and Smush Parker.....If the Grizzles never did the Gasol trade, Kobe's selfishness would have continued to cost the team.

Is this guy serious?? Why would Kobe have to take less money? The Lakers are one of the biggest franchises in the world that is up to the front office to figure stuff out like that. Lebron isnt taking less money to win a ring. He is raping the system due to despiration. Any top player wouldnt take less money with a major franchise like that. Lebron will make more money in Miami so why are you even talking about Kobe or Shaq. Believe me Lebron dug his grave and now he has to lie in it. So since your on Lebron's nuts trying to start threads to justify his selfishness you can lay in your grave with him.

Illinirob83
07-11-2010, 06:11 PM
true.... but the refs will forever taint that in my mind... stern had bets on those games just like the refs did.. there was more money for the nba to make from wade winning rather than the mavs

Refs were bad no doubt, but that doesn't take away Wade's performance overall in that series IMO. Plus Dallas couldve won game 6 at home.....I realize game 5 was a travesty of reffing.

gangis2169
07-11-2010, 06:13 PM
Wade got the 5 seed with one of the worst supporting casts in all of basketball. I AM TALKING ABOUT BEING "THE MAN" on a champion. Shaq was still really good, but he wasn't the shaq of the early part of the decade at all. I enjoyed Wade's playoff run more than any player maybe sense the '97 Jordan season. He was awesome throughout the playoffs that year and was incredible in the Finals. Shaq was his Robin and Wade was the batman. Duh.

Dont forget that when they got the 5th seed that would have been fighting for there playoff lives in the west. So I dont think its that great.

ElMarroAfamado
07-11-2010, 06:14 PM
In your opinion, would Kobe and Shaq have left money on the table in other to win a Championship? Keep in mind, Shaq/Kobe split up primarily because neither want to take a pay cut. people calling Lebron names, need to know that he did something neither Kobe nor Shaq ever did for the Lakers.

In your opinion, do you think Kobe or Shaq would sacrifice for a championship?

i looked straight at your sig
AND

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

CALIABQLKRS
07-11-2010, 06:15 PM
First, before you brand me a Heat fan, do your due diligence. Nothing could be further from the truth. Please rememer, the race is not for the swift, but for the sure. History has yet to be written for these guys. At the end of the day, if you are holding that trophy with a championship MVP, i guess you can call yourself a winner. Well Kobe has his, lets see how many LeBron gets. I can play the waiting game can you? You see, Kobe did. He bided his time for a Pau to come along, after he booted Shaq. Its just time and opportunity. That's all.:rolleyes:

Thats fair I quoted you.. but its meant for anyone declaring this nonsense.. cuz in reality they arent giving much up after the no taxes thing. Personally I welcome any tough competition and if they all wanna team up to try to beat my lakers, thats cool. Its gnna be fun. I honestly dont think lebron is a traitor for leaving the cavs. That team was never gnna win with him as the main piece and he knew it. But he shouldve atleast gave the cavs more than 5 mins on his decision. After everything that city did for him.. but im kinda glad they teamed up personally. Im sure kobe is too! ;) All this talk about them taking less money is a joke, just drop it already... and lets just wait and see if all this hoopla turns into a ring. Quit trying to bring kobe into it, he has his 5 rings and counting. He doesnt need to worry about chasing rings.

Raps08-09 Champ
07-11-2010, 06:15 PM
Wade got the 5 seed with one of the worst supporting casts in all of basketball. I AM TALKING ABOUT BEING "THE MAN" on a champion. Shaq was still really good, but he wasn't the shaq of the early part of the decade at all. I enjoyed Wade's playoff run more than any player maybe sense the '97 Jordan season. He was awesome throughout the playoffs that year and was incredible in the Finals. Shaq was his Robin and Wade was the batman. Duh.

The Eastern conference is **** box outside the top 4.

But Shaq was there to help out Wade throughout the playoffs but the Finals. A 20 and 10 Shaq is still dangerous. Even in the finals, Shaq was still being double teamed.

Lebron busted his *** just to get through that playoffs. He had to carry that team by himself each series that year. He just couldn't play the same level when he faced the Spurs because he wasn't getting help and he was probably fatigued.

Illinirob83
07-11-2010, 06:16 PM
Dont forget that when they got the 5th seed that would have been fighting for there playoff lives in the west. So I dont think its that great.

With that supporting cast it was pretty darn good. I understand basketball players need help, but there is a difference between needing help and what these three decided to do in Miami. That is fine if they wanted to do what they did.....but people are going to be disappointed and have opinions on it. LBJ really hasn't had a backlash like this before.....he asked for it for the way all this went down.

_KB24_
07-11-2010, 06:16 PM
Why would they leave money on the table when they are winning rings as well? I find it funny how people are bashing Kobe/Shaq for taking the money and still winning and guys like Lebron taking less money but still possibly not winning at all. And they were showing on ESPN, Miami was the best choice for Lebron to sign finacially outside of Cleveland because Miami being the tax haven it is, 6 years/111 million with hardly and taxes is similar to 6/126 million, in a state with some of the highest taxes in the country.

MVPKOBE43
07-11-2010, 06:17 PM
No they didn't have to they were both good enough to win on their own and that has earned them every penny they've got today.....being able to win.

Exactly. They didnt have to loose money and make an all star team to win a ring. Why would you? Magic GM said it best when he said...............Orlando Magic general manager Otis Smith said Friday he was surprised James went to Miami because he thought the two-time MVP was "more of a competitor." He said the "great ones" do it on their own and "usually stay in one location." But at least Lebron knows that hes not great and wants easy Championships and not willing to fight for his team. What if things arent easy for him in Miami. (it wont be ) Will he blame d wade and bosh too.

Illinirob83
07-11-2010, 06:19 PM
The Eastern conference is **** box outside the top 4.

But Shaq was there to help out Wade throughout the playoffs but the Finals. A 20 and 10 Shaq is still dangerous. Even in the finals, Shaq was still being double teamed.

Lebron busted his *** just to get through that playoffs. He had to carry that team by himself each series that year. He just couldn't play the same level when he faced the Spurs because he wasn't getting help and he was probably fatigued.

Yep. Shaq was a terrific #2, and deferred to Wade. You need a terrific #2 to win a title. Kobe doesn't win without Gasol, Pierce doesn't win without Garnett, Jordan doesn't win without Pippen. But there are really no doubts on who the best players were on each championship team maybe outside some of the showtime lakers titles, or the '04 piston title.

And yes.....LBJ is fantastic player you don't need to tell me that. Just don't like that he didn't want to be the Jordan, Bird, Magic, Kobe, Russell type that he couldve been. It will always be Wade's bunch down there. If that is what LBJ wanted.....great, but fans don't have to like it.

Raps08-09 Champ
07-11-2010, 06:23 PM
you're right there is no point of arguing because apparently you can't comprehend, or have very good perspective at all. And please..don't put words in my mouth again that is a terrible way to go about discussing things on an internet forum for f sake. I never once said any ring is worthless, and I certainly never said the Boston ring was worthless.....so again, read slower and comprehend better next time.

:laugh2: I guess your the only person in this whole word who debates without exaggerating. When I said that it was 'worthless', I was obviously exaggerating your words. However, you were trying to imply that since LBJ, Wade and Bosh joined together, it wouldn't mean as much if they won because they joined forces and didn't make a trade for them.



Like I have been saying earlier, how would it not be LBJ's team if it's LEBRON who does the most for that teams title run.

If the Heat win 5 titles and Lebron did more than Wade in each title run, why wouldn't it be Lebron's team?

You're reasoning is because Wade won earlier while Lebron didn't but you are saying it as if the 2006 Heat team had equavalent talent to the 2007 team.

VinceCarter
07-11-2010, 06:27 PM
:laugh2: I guess your the only person in this whole word who debates without exaggerating. When I said that it was 'worthless', I was obviously exaggerating your words. However, you were trying to imply that since LBJ, Wade and Bosh joined together, it wouldn't mean as much if they won because they joined forces and didn't make a trade for them.



Like I have been saying earlier, how would it not be LBJ's team if it's LEBRON who does the most for that teams title run.

If the Heat win 5 titles and Lebron did more than Wade in each title run, why wouldn't it be Lebron's team?

You're reasoning is because Wade won earlier while Lebron didn't but you are saying it as if the 2006 Heat team had equavalent talent to the 2007 team.

The same reason why the Yankees is still Jeter's team. The Heat will ALWAYS be Wade's team.

Raps08-09 Champ
07-11-2010, 06:27 PM
Yep. Shaq was a terrific #2, and deferred to Wade. You need a terrific #2 to win a title. Kobe doesn't win without Gasol, Pierce doesn't win without Garnett, Jordan doesn't win without Pippen. But there are really no doubts on who the best players were on each championship team maybe outside some of the showtime lakers titles, or the '04 piston title.

And yes.....LBJ is fantastic player you don't need to tell me that. Just don't like that he didn't want to be the Jordan, Bird, Magic, Kobe, Russell type that he couldve been. It will always be Wade's bunch down there. If that is what LBJ wanted.....great, but fans don't have to like it.

So why the hell are you taking shots at LBJ for not winning the 2007 Finals when he had Larry Hughes as his 2nd option? Yet you say you need a 2nd option to win.



And this is for the bolded part, if LBJ DOES MORE THAN WADE, why wouldn't Wade be the #2 to LBJ?

Jezeble
07-11-2010, 06:28 PM
Thats fair I quoted you.. but its meant for anyone declaring this nonsense.. cuz in reality they arent giving much up after the no taxes thing. Personally I welcome any tough competition and if they all wanna team up to try to beat my lakers, thats cool. Its gnna be fun. I honestly dont think lebron is a traitor for leaving the cavs. That team was never gnna win with him as the main piece and he knew it. But he shouldve atleast gave the cavs more than 5 mins on his decision. After everything that city did for him.. but im kinda glad they teamed up personally. Im sure kobe is too! ;) All this talk about them taking less money is a joke, just drop it already... and lets just wait and see if all this hoopla turns into a ring. Quit trying to bring kobe into it, he has his 5 rings and counting. He doesnt need to worry about chasing rings.

Let me ask you, have u ever been let go? Most times, u get no more than five minutes' notice, then security escorts u to your office to pack your stuff up. It happens every day in the corporate world. I've had to let go a few people in my time, unfortunately, so I know this.

Do u remember how Shaq found out he was traded by Miami? He get a phone call from either his manager, or a friend, after the deal was done. Do u know how many players are not even afforded the courtesy of a phone call, but hear from friends or ESPN that they've been traded, waived, etc.?

After the way Gilert behaved, I'd say LeBron did the right thing. This guy had absolutely no regard for him except to view him as A PAWN -- AN ASSET! Good for LeBron, seems he brought the snake out of hiding. Now other FAs will take notice. Gilbert is a slimeball!

Raps08-09 Champ
07-11-2010, 06:28 PM
The same reason why the Yankees is still Jeter's team. The Heat will ALWAYS be Wade's team.

They never achieved anything with A-Rod(They did this year but A-Rod is shitbox now) so that's why it's Jeter's team.

J4KOP99
07-11-2010, 06:31 PM
This may be the dumbest thread I have seen in a long time.


You want us to use our extensive knowledge on Kobe and Shaq so we can tell you how they would approach a free agency situation where, if they wanted to team up together, they would have to take less than a maximum contract...

commonsense12
07-11-2010, 06:32 PM
No they didn't have to they were both good enough to win on their own and that has earned them every penny they've got today.....being able to win.

This. They were not scared like LBJ and Bosh were.

VinceCarter
07-11-2010, 06:33 PM
They never achieved anything with A-Rod(They did this year but A-Rod is shitbox now) so that's why it's Jeter's team.

What about CC Sabathia? C'mon dude your argument is not backed by any logic. Just because you are the best player on your team doesn't make it YOUR team.

LA_Raiders
07-11-2010, 06:34 PM
No way, They dont need to... They Have Balls...

Kobe 5 Rings
Shaq 4 Rings

Nuff Said...

bayareafan650
07-11-2010, 06:34 PM
No they wouldnt, because they were confident enough in themselves that they could win by themselves.

Raps08-09 Champ
07-11-2010, 06:35 PM
What about CC Sabathia? C'mon dude your argument is not backed by any logic. Just because you are the best player on your team doesn't make it YOUR team.

Where did I say it should automatically be LBJ's team?


I said if LBJ does more to lead this team to success, then it should be his.

Bruno
07-11-2010, 06:37 PM
Why would they leave money on the table when they are winning rings as well? I find it funny how people are bashing Kobe/Shaq for taking the money and still winning and guys like Lebron taking less money but still possibly not winning at all. And they were showing on ESPN, Miami was the best choice for Lebron to sign finacially outside of Cleveland because Miami being the tax haven it is, 6 years/111 million with hardly and taxes is similar to 6/126 million, in a state with some of the highest taxes in the country.

It's just funny how people think what just happened can be compared to Kobe/Shaq in anyway. Kobe made 9 million during the first title year.

Raps08-09 Champ
07-11-2010, 06:41 PM
I really don't see why the money is playing that big of a deal anyways.

It just so happens that these guys are all in their primes so they got max contracts. IF they were like 3 years into the league and all 3 signed a $70 mil, 6 year contract, it wouldn't mean as much.

Hawkeye15
07-11-2010, 07:29 PM
No they wouldnt, because they were confident enough in themselves that they could win by themselves.

every ring either of them has won, they had a top 10 player on their roster along with them...

_KB24_
07-11-2010, 07:40 PM
every ring either of them has won, they had a top 10 player on their roster along with them...

When they signed their contracts, they had nowhere near anyone in the Top 10. Both Kobe and Shaq made their players great. Shaq turned Kobe into a great talent, a Top 3 player by 2002. Kobe turned Gasol into a great player as well, after 08. Did any of us have Gasol in our Top 10 before he came to play with Kobe? No. Wade is already a Top 5 player before Lebron has had to come.

younggunn113
07-11-2010, 07:45 PM
This has been a thread for Heat fans to come out and try and defend their team in a different manner. Would they leave a dime on the table to win a championship? Probably not. They also have championships. They're players who don't need to play with 2 other max players to win, so the opportunity has never been on the table. The way the NBA salary cap is structured too it wouldn'y have mattered if Kobe signed a 3 year 80 million dollar extension instead of his 3 year 90+ million dollar extension cause that extra money can't go to another player. If you're over the cap you should want to make as much as you can. This question would be more fitting for a league where the salary cap is much stricter like the NFL. The cap is like 52 million and the Lakers salary is way over that so even if Kobe signed for less the money doesn't do anything for the team.

I guess the real question should be would Kobe sacrafice his legacy and show his lack of testicular fortitude to try and compete for a championship. I would say no.

Raps08-09 Champ
07-11-2010, 08:01 PM
When they signed their contracts, they had nowhere near anyone in the Top 10. Both Kobe and Shaq made their players great. Shaq turned Kobe into a great talent, a Top 3 player by 2002. Kobe turned Gasol into a great player as well, after 08. Did any of us have Gasol in our Top 10 before he came to play with Kobe? No. Wade is already a Top 5 player before Lebron has had to come.

That's the thing though. Gasol was doing the same thing when he was in Memphis. It was when Gasol went to the Lakers that you guys jumped on him.

kblo247
07-11-2010, 08:02 PM
In your opinion, would Kobe and Shaq have left money on the table in other to win a Championship? Keep in mind, Shaq/Kobe split up primarily because neither want to take a pay cut. people calling Lebron names, need to know that he did something neither Kobe nor Shaq ever did for the Lakers.

In your opinion, do you think Kobe or Shaq would sacrifice for a championship?

Simple and plain neither have to too.

Unlike Wade, both can actually pack every arena that they enter as a solo act and for obscene prices as well.

Kobe is a bigger TV draw than Lebron world wide so naturally the Lakers make more off of him. He was the most profitable Laker in history for Buss according to Forbes in 2006. Also, Kobe salary to 05 was less than what either of those 3 could make with a max deal even though he was a 3 time champ, the primary facilitator, primary defender, and averaged 1st option numbers as a second option. Oh and he did leave $7 mil on the table (3 years and 83mil instead of 90) which is the same amount Pau left on the table in his current extension. Since you want to talk about money, don't leave out that according to Mason and Ireland, Kobe hasn't received a playoff share the last 3 years instead opting to give it to Powell and Mbenga so they make more than the minimum.

Lastly unlike Bosh, Shaq could flat out make someone his ***** and didn't need to campaign to get votes or be noticed by the masses. He's just go out dominate, talk ****, and no one did anything about to stop him besides himself due to him not taking care of his body

This topic would have been more fitting to be about KG in Minny more than anyone else when you look at their market.

Plus don't even compare Florida and California money as you have to take more in Cali to get the same down south.

ARMIN12NBA
07-11-2010, 08:08 PM
LBJ, Wade, and Bosh did not take less. There is no state income tax in Florida. Broussard actually said it was a wash or they even possibly got more money.

_KB24_
07-11-2010, 08:15 PM
That's the thing though. Gasol was doing the same thing when he was in Memphis. It was when Gasol went to the Lakers that you guys jumped on him.

Because he was now doing all this as a second option. Its great to see how almost all of his stats have gone up besides his points, which his highest PPG in Memphis were 21 and in LA its 19. And he is a much more aggressive player as well now. His free-throw attempts as gone much higher, and his % as well. Him playing beside Kobe benefited him more than anyone.

Bigbadmoffo
07-11-2010, 08:15 PM
Would Kobe do it? that's the question.........Would Kobe take less money than Joe Johnson in order to win a ring?

He would in that scenario who wouldn't.

CALIABQLKRS
07-11-2010, 08:16 PM
Let me ask you, have u ever been let go? Most times, u get no more than five minutes' notice, then security escorts u to your office to pack your stuff up. It happens every day in the corporate world. I've had to let go a few people in my time, unfortunately, so I know this.

Do u remember how Shaq found out he was traded by Miami? He get a phone call from either his manager, or a friend, after the deal was done. Do u know how many players are not even afforded the courtesy of a phone call, but hear from friends or ESPN that they've been traded, waived, etc.?

After the way Gilert behaved, I'd say LeBron did the right thing. This guy had absolutely no regard for him except to view him as A PAWN -- AN ASSET! Good for LeBron, seems he brought the snake out of hiding. Now other FAs will take notice. Gilbert is a slimeball!

I agree with you that it sux being let go... But umm Lebron wasnt let go.. He had 2 years to make his decision. And your gnna tell me he didnt know until the morning of the ESPN spectacle?? Are u serious Lebron?? lol if I was a cavalier fan or owner of the team I would be pissed too! To go on live tv in front of everyone and make your decision? and he couldnt even give the cavs a courtesy call himself.. He let his "people" let them know.. lol you dont think thats a lil jacked up? Especially after he promised to bring a ring to the city that gave him everything! Thats the part I dont like, I am glad to see him in MIami with the other 3 stooges.. Kobe Im sure is glad too, he loves the competition. Dont get me wrong, Im not gnna hate on lebron or dWades game, cuz they are incredible players and they are gnna be hard to beat but to all the NEW heat fans, just shut up already cuz until you have sum rings, you have no right to even open your mouth about the Lakers or their players... and to all the REAL heat fans, who were fans before last week, all I have to say is, its gnna be a fun few years for MIA and LA... The Lakers welcome the challenge and good luck to all the real Heat fans! :)

To get back to the topic, can we stop talking about them taking less money.. cuz in reality we all know they got plenty of dough for all of the users on PSD to live happily for life... And also please stop trying to get Kobe involved.. he has 5 rings and counting.. He doesnt need to go ring chasing with larry, moe and curley..

Penetra8r
07-11-2010, 08:19 PM
No way would they take a pay cut. The Lakers would just rape the fans and increase ticket prices.

Jezeble
07-11-2010, 08:27 PM
I agree with you that it sux being let go... But umm Lebron wasnt let go.. He had 2 years to make his decision. And your gnna tell me he didnt know until the morning of the ESPN spectacle?? Are u serious Lebron?? lol if I was a cavalier fan or owner of the team I would be pissed too! To go on live tv in front of everyone and make your decision? and he couldnt even give the cavs a courtesy call himself.. He let his "people" let them know.. lol you dont think thats a lil jacked up? Especially after he promised to bring a ring to the city that gave him everything! Thats the part I dont like, I am glad to see him in MIami with the other 3 stooges.. Kobe Im sure is glad too, he loves the competition. Dont get me wrong, Im not gnna hate on lebron or dWades game, cuz they are incredible players and they are gnna be hard to beat but to all the NEW heat fans, just shut up already cuz until you have sum rings, you have no right to even open your mouth about the Lakers or their players... and to all the REAL heat fans, who were fans before last week, all I have to say is, its gnna be a fun few years for MIA and LA... The Lakers welcome the challenge and good luck to all the real Heat fans! :)

To get back to the topic, can we stop talking about them taking less money.. cuz in reality we all know they got plenty of dough for all of the users on PSD to live happily for life... And also please stop trying to get Kobe involved.. he has 5 rings and counting.. He doesnt need to go ring chasing with larry, moe and curley..

Lol. No, just with Shaq and Pau. God the smug arrogance of it all. Look, I am not saying they should have left the money, frankly I wouldn't have. Most owners wouldn't venture into luxury tax to get players, so why should players give up anything to sacrifice for teammates? These guys have huge tax burdens. LeBron's real estate taxes alone for his house is several hundred thousand dollars. They have to put away money for their retirement. You are the same people who laugh at pro athletes when they go broke or homeless.

Having said all of the above, I would just once, like to see a thread about LeBron, without Kobe being mentioned. Do u think we could ever manage that?:D

Bigbadmoffo
07-11-2010, 08:35 PM
Lol. No, just with Shaq and Pau. God the smug arrogance of it all. Look, I am not saying they should have left the money, frankly I wouldn't have. Most owners wouldn't venture into luxury tax to get players, so why should players give up anything to sacrifice for teammates? These guys have huge tax burdens. LeBron's real estate taxes alone for his house is several hundred thousand dollars. They have to put away money for their retirement. You are the same people who laugh at pro athletes when they go broke or homeless.

Having said all of the above, I would just once, like to see a thread about LeBron, without Kobe being mentioned. Do u think we could ever manage that?:D

Wow never thought i'd hear sympothy for athletes having bills.

Jezeble
07-11-2010, 08:47 PM
Wow never thought i'd hear sympothy for athletes having bills.

Just because they r rich doesn't mean they don't have regular everyday problems too. Do u know what tax bracket these guys fall under at their current salaries? Look it up. I've been there, and I'm sure u have been too. He has at least $5.5 million in Fed taxes taken off the top. So, yes, I don't have sympathy for them, but I empathize. None of us like giving away a huge chunk of our salaries to the government.

con_the_don
07-11-2010, 08:51 PM
lebron didnt leave a dime if you consider them not having income taxes now! He didnt leave anything except the chance to become a legend. Now he will just be a hall of famer.

Kobe does both, gets paid and wins championships


you seem to be one of the few smart ones that see through the bs....despite what lebron and dumb analysts fail to realize is that it is always about money, with the exception of wade, bosh and lebron did not take a price cut, in reality they got more money for going to miami and a better chance at doing something then staying in their respective teams. lebron and bosh are getting 110 mill in mia = tax free money. I am offended how lebron tries to front as though it was not about money, and analysts eat it up and have yet to mention how it is tax free (no money is being left on the table in reality). lebron sold out, that is like him joining with the lakers, you're suppose to be a "king" in the game and he is in my opinion the best in the league, you dont bow down to nobody, you make your team. instead of being batman he chose to be a sidekick robin, I am shocked how he has given up being a real competitor, his own man, and allstar in this league. jordan would have never called up bird or johnson and said lets be best friends n join a superteam, they held their own teams down. he has given away the top position to kobe. lebron brand is ruined and ultimately his legacy on the game will be as well, especially if he doesn't win at least 2 titles. I will never understand his decision, i agree his decision to leave cavs (even though he gave his word that he would stay with cavs until he won a ring there which he should have never said), but not to d ride wade's team and go to mia...on top of the fact that is was foul to lead cavs organization on (as well as every other team), everyone knew he was going to leave (besides cavs fans), but he went on larry king saying cavs have the best chance of getting him back and drawing this free agency out so long when from day 1 he was trying to play with wade n bosh, that's not respectable. he's the best in the league yet turned into payton and malone overnight who chased LA for ring, which I understand when you're in your final year or two but not when you're still young and the best in the league...lebron is still the best, but I just don't respect him anymore, he's been dethroned.

RCarlson85
07-11-2010, 08:55 PM
you seem to be one of the few smart ones that see through the bs....despite what lebron and dumb analysts fail to realize is that it is always about money, with the exception of wade, bosh and lebron did not take a price cut, in reality they got more money for going to miami and a better chance at doing something then staying in their respective teams. lebron and bosh are getting 110 mill in mia = tax free money. I am offended how lebron tries to front as though it was not about money, and analysts eat it up and have yet to mention how it is tax free (no money is being left on the table in reality). lebron sold out, that is like him joining with the lakers, you're suppose to be a "king" in the game and he is in my opinion the best in the league, you dont bow down to nobody, you make your team. instead of being batman he chose to be a sidekick robin, I am shocked how he has given up being a real competitor, his own man, and allstar in this league. jordan would have never called up bird or johnson and said lets be best friends n join a superteam, they held their own teams down. he has given away the top position to kobe. lebron brand is ruined and ultimately his legacy on the game will be as well, especially if he doesn't win at least 2 titles. I will never understand his decision, i agree his decision to leave cavs (even though he gave his word that he would stay with cavs until he won a ring there which he should have never said), but not to d ride wade's team and go to mia...on top of the fact that is was foul to lead cavs organization on (as well as every other team), everyone knew he was going to leave (besides cavs fans), but he went on larry king saying cavs have the best chance of getting him back and drawing this free agency out so long when from day 1 he was trying to play with wade n bosh, that's not respectable. lebron is still the best to me but I just don't respect him anymore, he's been dethroned.

So just because there is no income tax that means they didn't take less money? That is just stupid. They all could have gotten 125 million dollar deals, so yes they did take less. They could have had 125 million tax free. Don't be ignorant.

con_the_don
07-11-2010, 08:59 PM
So just because there is no income tax that means they didn't take less money? That is just stupid. They all could have gotten 125 million dollar deals, so yes they did take less. They could have had 125 million tax free. Don't be ignorant.

the 125 million would have come if they stayed with their teams. not with signing with a different team. therefore lebron if he stayed with cavs would have gotten 125 mill (but taxed), he chose not to and now gets 110mill but tax free in MIA, you can do the math.

RCarlson85
07-11-2010, 09:00 PM
No they wouldnt, because they were confident enough in themselves that they could win by themselves.


Whatever. This is the biggest pile of bull **** I've ever heard. Neither Kobe nor Shaq won a title by themselves. Kobe and Shaq won titles together, Kobe, Gasol, Bynum, and Odom won championships, and Shaq won a title with Wade.

sjbirds
07-11-2010, 09:02 PM
ok i didnt read most of the posts so i dont know if this was said or not but they left the money on the table but tax wise they will make as much because fla doesnt have then same taxes as the reat of the states.... so in the end they will prob make the same if not more because they r playing in fla

RCarlson85
07-11-2010, 09:04 PM
the 125 million would have come if they stayed with their teams. not with signing with a different team. therefore lebron if he stayed with cavs would have gotten 125 mill (but taxed), he chose not to and now gets 110mill but tax free in MIA, you can do the math.

Umm...No. I can do the math, you need to figure out what you're saying. They the Heat did sign and trade deals with both Cleveland and Toronto. That means they both could have gotten 6 yr/$125 million deals. Instead they signed for 6/$110 million. They took less. This isn't that hard people.

bigsams50
07-11-2010, 09:10 PM
But if the Heat win this year and Lebron won Finals MVP, we both know that you would have something else to say.




Its not his team....it'd be like Tony Parker winning MVP even though everyone knew it was TD team.

So even if LBJ wins the MVP its still not his team? How the **** is that possible?

JonnyBrav000
07-11-2010, 09:10 PM
In your opinion, would Kobe and Shaq have left money on the table in other to win a Championship? Keep in mind, Shaq/Kobe split up primarily because neither want to take a pay cut. people calling Lebron names, need to know that he did something neither Kobe nor Shaq ever did for the Lakers.

In your opinion, do you think Kobe or Shaq would sacrifice for a championship?



This is stupid, aside from re-signing with their former teams, don't you understand that Lebron, and Bosh did not leave much of any money on the table. There is no income-tax in Florida, so even though it appears they took less to play in Miami then they would have to play somewhere like Chicago, New York, New Jersey, LA, they are actually still making more money playing in south Florida because their is no income tax, think about the millions they are saving by doing that, then you tell me if they really did leave any money on the table to possibly win a championship.

The only guy who really took less Money is Wade because he really could have received the Max from the Heat.

JonnyBrav000
07-11-2010, 09:13 PM
So even if LBJ wins the MVP its still not his team? How the **** is that possible?


it is possible, kinda like how Jeter is the captain of the Yankees even though A-rod won the MVP 2 times as a Yankee.

Wade will be the guy taking the final shot, lebron will be the guy to pass him the ball.

Fayzon10
07-11-2010, 09:13 PM
In your opinion, would Kobe and Shaq have left money on the table in other to win a Championship? Keep in mind, Shaq/Kobe split up primarily because neither want to take a pay cut. people calling Lebron names, need to know that he did something neither Kobe nor Shaq ever did for the Lakers.

In your opinion, do you think Kobe or Shaq would sacrifice for a championship? I could have sworn they split cause shaq wanted a raise and Jerry Buss didn't wanna give him one? They still won three Ships together though so do you mean sacrafice to win a fourth championship???:shrug:

bigsams50
07-11-2010, 09:17 PM
it is possible, kinda like how Jeter is the captain of the Yankees even though A-rod won the MVP 2 times as a Yankee.

Wade will be the guy taking the final shot, lebron will be the guy to pass him the ball.

I dont watch baseball so i'll just take your word on that one lol. But as for the last shot, how do you know LBJ wont be taking his fair share of them?

con_the_don
07-11-2010, 09:17 PM
Whatever. This is the biggest pile of bull **** I've ever heard. Neither Kobe nor Shaq won a title by themselves. Kobe and Shaq won titles together, Kobe, Gasol, Bynum, and Odom won championships, and Shaq won a title with Wade.


im not saying kobe or shaq won it by themselves, of course they won it together. personally the year mia won it, I thought it was fixed since mia and wade got the most bs calls of alltime during the entire playoffs but that is besides the point. winning of course is not one player, but it is how it was constructed. that is like would u respect lebron if he hypothetically went to the lakers this year? I wouldn't, it's a cop out, I expect that from players who aren't that good, or soon to be retiring (say currently shaq). lebron is suppose to be a king, so why is he going to Wade's team? His ego is through the roof yet he bows down to lesser players, now they are going to have to curb their games which I'm not feeling...bulls have a decent squad to make a run, kobe worked for championships, it's him and gasol with other good supporting cast that they constructed pieces over several seasons. mia is trying to buy a ring in one shot. if lebron made cavs a playoff team, he couldn't win a ring say in chicago? they have a pretty decent lineup now and have been a playoff team. its like wade made a comment saying give me one player and ill bring a ring. so why couldn't lebron have a similar competitive attitude....its a competitive attitude that just vanished, i play street ball but im not looking to pickup the best players on the court so that I can try to "secure" a win, I run with my squad and I dont care who's playing ima have to challenge myself and play that much harder to beat who ever is on the court. granted when you have horrible players like cavs you do need help. but just one player on cavs wouldve helped lebron enough such as stoudemire or bosh.

RCarlson85
07-11-2010, 09:20 PM
This is stupid, aside from re-signing with their former teams, don't you understand that Lebron, and Bosh did not leave much of any money on the table. There is no income-tax in Florida, so even though it appears they took less to play in Miami then they would have to play somewhere like Chicago, New York, New Jersey, LA, they are actually still making more money playing in south Florida because their is no income tax, think about the millions they are saving by doing that, then you tell me if they really did leave any money on the table to possibly win a championship.

The only guy who really took less Money is Wade because he really could have received the Max from the Heat.

I don't understand how this can be so hard for everyone to get. They could have gotten $125 million each, they didn't take it. Just because having no income tax will basically allow them to be in the same position as if they had taken a max in Clev or Tor, they still could have gotten the full $125 million tax free. There is no rule that if you sign a max deal in FLA that you take $110 million just because that's like taking the max in somewhere else. If they were really only about the money, they would have taken $125 million.

JonnyBrav000
07-11-2010, 09:22 PM
Umm...No. I can do the math, you need to figure out what you're saying. They the Heat did sign and trade deals with both Cleveland and Toronto. That means they both could have gotten 6 yr/$125 million deals. Instead they signed for 6/$110 million. They took less. This isn't that hard people.

LOL, ok you really need to learn math. Yes it was a sign and trade, but they could still not receive the max because it was a straight salary dump trade. Te Heat were under the cap, so you cannot go well beyond the cap through a salary dump sign and trade. If Lebron and Bosh wanted to play in Miami they had to take less, but in reality they are not taking less because of the tax free income tax breaks in Florida. Only guy who really got screwed out of some millions is Wade, but I am sure he is sacrificing some millions to win championships and then he will get the money back in endorsements and possible business ventures with Lebron and Bosh.

Lebron and Bosh are liars saying they took less money, because at the end of the day they will probably have more earned dollars in their bank accounts. Do you know how ridiculous income tax is in the US?

People don't be idiots listening to what espn tells you. Lebron and Bosh are not going to Miami for the love of the game. No, they are going to a party town, where they make tax free dollars and if they win championships they could possibly end up running that town.

This is straight business. If they really did want to take less, than they would have just signed with the Heat with no sign and trade and allow Miami to keep their draft picks to help the club become and even better team in the future. But they wanted the sign and trade to get that yearly 10% raise and also an extra season in their contracts, plus I am sure they have a opt-out clause in there as well.

Lake_Show2416
07-11-2010, 09:26 PM
Shaq has proven when he was with the heat to take a pay cut(32mil to 20mil) so they could get a good supporting cast around them

As for Kobe... my favorite player.... haha NO........MAYBE we'll see perhaps later in his career, but unlikely....... THOUGH NOTE THAT HE DESERVES EVERY PENNY

con_the_don
07-11-2010, 09:27 PM
I don't understand how this can be so hard for everyone to get. They could have gotten $125 million each, they didn't take it. Just because having no income tax will basically allow them to be in the same position as if they had taken a max in Clev or Tor, they still could have gotten the full $125 million tax free. There is no rule that if you sign a max deal in FLA that you take $110 million just because that's like taking the max in somewhere else. If they were really only about the money, they would have taken $125 million.

the max deal of 125 was not on the table if they didn't sign with their respective team. that was the whole point of debate if lebron would stay with cavs and get the 125million or go to say ny or another team and leave 30 mill on the table.

con_the_don
07-11-2010, 09:29 PM
LOL, ok you really need to learn math. Yes it was a sign and trade, but they could still not receive the max because it was a straight salary dump trade. Te Heat were under the cap, so you cannot go well beyond the cap through a salary dump sign and trade. If Lebron and Bosh wanted to play in Miami they had to take less, but in reality they are not taking less because of the tax free income tax breaks in Florida. Only guy who really got screwed out of some millions is Wade, but I am sure he is sacrificing some millions to win championships and then he will get the money back in endorsements and possible business ventures with Lebron and Bosh.

Lebron and Bosh are liars saying they took less money, because at the end of the day they will probably have more earned dollars in their bank accounts. Do you know how ridiculous income tax is in the US?

People don't be idiots listening to what espn tells you. Lebron and Bosh are not going to Miami for the love of the game. No, they are going to a party town, where they make tax free dollars and if they win championships they could possibly end up running that town.

This is straight business. If they really did want to take less, than they would have just signed with the Heat with no sign and trade and allow Miami to keep their draft picks to help the club become and even better team in the future. But they wanted the sign and trade to get that yearly 10% raise and also an extra season in their contracts, plus I am sure they have a opt-out clause in there as well.



THANK YOU ..i dont get why people aren't understanding this and analysts failed to mention this huge point.

Illinirob83
07-11-2010, 09:29 PM
So why the hell are you taking shots at LBJ for not winning the 2007 Finals when he had Larry Hughes as his 2nd option? Yet you say you need a 2nd option to win.



And this is for the bolded part, if LBJ DOES MORE THAN WADE, why wouldn't Wade be the #2 to LBJ?

You must have me confused for someone else becuase I never gave LBJ crap for not winning in 2007, I never even brought it up in the conversation once. You've got the wrong guy man. :cool:

RCarlson85
07-11-2010, 09:30 PM
im not saying kobe or shaq won it by themselves, of course they won it together. personally the year mia won it, I thought it was fixed since mia and wade got the most bs calls of alltime during the entire playoffs but that is besides the point. winning of course is not one player, but it is how it was constructed. that is like would u respect lebron if he hypothetically went to the lakers this year? I wouldn't, it's a cop out, I expect that from players who aren't that good, or soon to be retiring (say currently shaq). lebron is suppose to be a king, so why is he going to Wade's team? His ego is through the roof yet he bows down to lesser players, now they are going to have to curb their games which I'm not feeling...bulls have a decent squad to make a run, kobe worked for championships, it's him and gasol with other good supporting cast that they constructed pieces over several seasons. mia is trying to buy a ring in one shot. if lebron made cavs a playoff team, he couldn't win a ring say in chicago? they have a pretty decent lineup now and have been a playoff team. its like wade made a comment saying give me one player and ill bring a ring. so why couldn't lebron have a similar competitive attitude....its a competitive attitude that just vanished, i play street ball but im not looking to pickup the best players on the court so that I can try to "secure" a win, I run with my squad and I dont care who's playing ima have to challenge myself and play that much harder to beat who ever is on the court. granted when you have horrible players like cavs you do need help. but just one player on cavs wouldve helped lebron enough such as stoudemire or bosh.

So it's OK for lesser players and old vets to play with stars, but stars can't play with stars? That's a double standard. It just doesn't happen all the time because most stars aren't willing to put egos/money aside to actually play in the best situation to win. So now Wade, Lebron, and Bosh decide to give up personal glory for team glory and everyone is having a **** fit. Lebron gave the Cavs 7 years in the prime of his career and it didn't work out. He moved on to a situation that would put him in a position to win championships for the rest of his prime years. Amare and Bosh could have come to Cleveland if they wanted to. The key there is if. No one wants to come to Cleveland even if Lebron is there. The Raptors and Cavs were ready to do a sign and trade for Bosh, but Bosh refused.

As far as buying a championship, that's not accurate for this situation either. Buying a championship = the Yankees. There is a salary cap in the NBA which limits what teams can do. They decided to spend that on 3 stars and to fill in with minimum guys. That's their choice.

JonnyBrav000
07-11-2010, 09:30 PM
Shaq has proven when he was with the heat to take a pay cut(32mil to 20mil) so they could get a good supporting cast around them

As for Kobe... my favorite player.... haha NO........MAYBE we'll see perhaps later in his career, but unlikely....... THOUGH NOTE THAT HE DESERVES EVERY PENNY


No shaq made a business decision to take less for one year but to extend the contract to like 4 or 5 years. So yes he didnt make $32 million for that 1 season, but he made like 20 plus with a 10% increase for the extension he signed. Players don't take less money, even when it seems like they do, they don't. Players are not role models, they are not charity workers, they don't make any decisions based on the fans or the love of the game. This is straight business.

By the way, as great as Kobe is, the best player in the league, no athlete deserves more than 10 million per year. It is a shame how the average american salary can be like 40 thousand a year and these guys make that in their sleep.

Jezeble
07-11-2010, 09:33 PM
Shaq has proven when he was with the heat to take a pay cut(32mil to 20mil) so they could get a good supporting cast around them

As for Kobe... my favorite player.... haha NO........MAYBE we'll see perhaps later in his career, but unlikely....... THOUGH NOTE THAT HE DESERVES EVERY PENNY

Ok, so I was wrong about Shaq, but not Kobe. But then again, if you are going to buy your wife $3 million rings everytime you rape some random bimbo, then he needs all the cash he can get his hands on. Just saying...;)

RCarlson85
07-11-2010, 09:37 PM
the max deal of 125 was not on the table if they didn't sign with their respective team. that was the whole point of debate if lebron would stay with cavs and get the 125million or go to say ny or another team and leave 30 mill on the table.

They did sign and then got traded. That's how Lebron and Bosh got the 6th year. The way they would leave 30 mil on the table is by just straight signing with the new team not a sign and trade. By doing a sign a trade they could get the max years and max dollars (6 yrs/125 million).

JonnyBrav000
07-11-2010, 09:38 PM
THANK YOU ..i dont get why people aren't understanding this and analysts failed to mention this huge point.



LOL I know, but thats because most analyst are stupid or they want to paint a pretty picture and most fans are mindless worshiping fools. Lebron is an a-hole for not letting the Cavs know privately what he was going to do. Even though the owner is no better for his comments and actions. But let's never paint Lebron as a kind, humble man because he is the opposite. I don't know why he said free agency was a humbling experience, I think that is the most over-used word by athletes, and they make no damn sense when they say it. Lebron, you used everyone and the stupid media fed into it, and now you have the nerve to pretend like you took less money??? Give me a break, your a douche bag. I hope you guys fail. Unless AI signs, because it would be nice for him to win one b4 he retires. Hey, at least Iverson doesn't pretend to be a humble person. If Lebron was more real, I would respect him. But he is a user and a liar and a young piggy backer and he quit on his team versus Boston and lied about the duking contest and tried to hide the video of him getting dunked on, and dissed the Magic when they beat them.

All I know is Lebron can't pull those stunts while on D-Wades team, because Wade has a ring and is a winner, and doesn't quit.

Lake_Show2416
07-11-2010, 09:39 PM
No shaq made a business decision to take less for one year but to extend the contract to like 4 or 5 years. So yes he didnt make $32 million for that 1 season, but he made like 20 plus with a 10% increase for the extension he signed. Players don't take less money, even when it seems like they do, they don't. Players are not role models, they are not charity workers, they don't make any decisions based on the fans or the love of the game. This is straight business.

By the way, as great as Kobe is, the best player in the league, no athlete deserves more than 10 million per year. It is a shame how the average american salary can be like 40 thousand a year and these guys make that in their sleep.

Shaq could have gotten way more then 20 mil per year in his extension...

As for Kobe and deserving every penny: the man brings in a lot more then what his services cost. And if it doesnt go to the players who work for it like Kobe, it just goes to the owners

You have to understand that NBA is also entertainment not just a sport and thats part of the salary

NPH
07-11-2010, 09:43 PM
lol...that's got to be the Joke of the day.

Why even ask the question if you're just going to dispute everybody's opinions?

Bigbadmoffo
07-11-2010, 09:43 PM
Just because they r rich doesn't mean they don't have regular everyday problems too. Do u know what tax bracket these guys fall under at their current salaries? Look it up. I've been there, and I'm sure u have been too. He has at least $5.5 million in Fed taxes taken off the top. So, yes, I don't have sympathy for them, but I empathize. None of us like giving away a huge chunk of our salaries to the government.

I still don't see why you'd be crying. Does he pay for travel??? food??? Doesn't he have like over 100 million dollar nike contract. Let's see for i guy who didn't go to college i'd say we shouldn't feel bad. Look at doctors.

JonnyBrav000
07-11-2010, 09:46 PM
Shaq could have gotten way more then 20 mil per year in his extension...

As for Kobe and deserving every penny: the man brings in a lot more then what his services cost. And if it doesnt go to the players who work for it like Kobe, it just goes to the owners

Shaq could not have gotten more, he restructured his contract to take less for that 1 season but to continue aking a ton for a few more years. If Shaq was a free agent that year he would never have gotten an offer that big, but the team gave him 20 plus for like 4 or 5 years because 32 million for one year was just too much to build a competitive team. Plus Shaq only had 1 good year for the Heat.

I don't want the owners to get it, all I'm saying is the owners and players don't deserve it. Come on, their profession is a game. It's our fault as a people for allowing prices to sky rocket and such. They only reason Kobe and other players make so much money is because so many of us are willing to throw our money away and pay whatever prices the owners set for whatever. With so much money being made, sports should do more for the fans who fund the operation.

RCarlson85
07-11-2010, 09:47 PM
LOL, ok you really need to learn math. Yes it was a sign and trade, but they could still not receive the max because it was a straight salary dump trade. Te Heat were under the cap, so you cannot go well beyond the cap through a salary dump sign and trade. If Lebron and Bosh wanted to play in Miami they had to take less, but in reality they are not taking less because of the tax free income tax breaks in Florida. Only guy who really got screwed out of some millions is Wade, but I am sure he is sacrificing some millions to win championships and then he will get the money back in endorsements and possible business ventures with Lebron and Bosh.

Lebron and Bosh are liars saying they took less money, because at the end of the day they will probably have more earned dollars in their bank accounts. Do you know how ridiculous income tax is in the US?

People don't be idiots listening to what espn tells you. Lebron and Bosh are not going to Miami for the love of the game. No, they are going to a party town, where they make tax free dollars and if they win championships they could possibly end up running that town.

This is straight business. If they really did want to take less, than they would have just signed with the Heat with no sign and trade and allow Miami to keep their draft picks to help the club become and even better team in the future. But they wanted the sign and trade to get that yearly 10% raise and also an extra season in their contracts, plus I am sure they have a opt-out clause in there as well.

First off, when the Heat traded Beasley, they freed up enough cap space to sign all three players to max deals. So you don't know what you're saying.

Secondly, the Heat wanted to do sign and trade deals, they weren't forced to by Lebron/Bosh. I'm not exactly sure why the sign and trade is better over just signing them as free agents because I don't know all the specific salary cap rules, but what I do know is that it freed up more money and has given them more flexibility to sign people. It was the Heat/Riley that wanted to get the sign and trades done, not Lebron/Bosh.

Raps08-09 Champ
07-11-2010, 09:51 PM
Because he was now doing all this as a second option. Its great to see how almost all of his stats have gone up besides his points, which his highest PPG in Memphis were 21 and in LA its 19. And he is a much more aggressive player as well now. His free-throw attempts as gone much higher, and his % as well. Him playing beside Kobe benefited him more than anyone.

But that doesn't mean he's a better player from before.

He's just in a better role.

con_the_don
07-11-2010, 09:52 PM
So it's OK for lesser players and old vets to play with stars, but stars can't play with stars? That's a double standard. It just doesn't happen all the time because most stars aren't willing to put egos/money aside to actually play in the best situation to win. So now Wade, Lebron, and Bosh decide to give up personal glory for team glory and everyone is having a **** fit. Lebron gave the Cavs 7 years in the prime of his career and it didn't work out. He moved on to a situation that would put him in a position to win championships for the rest of his prime years. Amare and Bosh could have come to Cleveland if they wanted to. The key there is if. No one wants to come to Cleveland even if Lebron is there. The Raptors and Cavs were ready to do a sign and trade for Bosh, but Bosh refused.

As far as buying a championship, that's not accurate for this situation either. Buying a championship = the Yankees. There is a salary cap in the NBA which limits what teams can do. They decided to spend that on 3 stars and to fill in with minimum guys. That's their choice.


you cant be serious and respect lebron if he went to kobe's laker team or w.e that is so bia. it's not a double standard, like payton n malone did they had 1 or 2yrs left in them and wanted a ring, so in my opinion i understand them wanting to get on a championship team since they dont have time to mess around fighting/competing for one. but lebron is a king in the game, if he could make bum cavs into playoff team and a great reg season team, anywhere he went he could rock out. him n stoudemire alone would be alrdy a huge step up from cavs. but instead of going to bulls or ny, he chose to take a 2nd seat to wade? the king, the one who has a ego through the roof, who had an hour segment where he couldn't just announce it with wade n bosh (and dont tell me you believe he made up his decision that morning). lebron has the biggest ego in the world, be for real, and once again he got more money going to MIA as did bosh, only one who lost a lil was wade but im sure he doesn't care since he got what he wanted, supporting players. if lebron really wanted to put ego/money aside he wouldve taken a price cut with the cavs (like pierce did, like dirk did) so that the organization could get players. if you believe in the illusion they are feeding you that is wasn't about money, it was about team 1st, then of course your point of view is going to be that is about "team glory" and people need to stop complaining. Personally i have no problem with him leaving cavs, but it is foul where that is his hometown and he promises to stay there till he wins a ring, and doesnt even let the owner know his intention to leave, and toy with cavs and other teams when we all know he knew it came down to him playing with wade n bosh that he said a yr ago and weeks before free agency. they treated him like a "king" since he was a child in the nba, and shouldve been upfront with the organization and told the owner of the bat...i know bosh refused cavs and that is kind of an insult to lebron's hometown, he wont play with him there but will only play with him if wade is in the mix? ..again if money wasnt an issue, then how about they each take a real cut now from their salaries and get supporting players instead of scrambling for players for cheap to fill roster.

Shark
07-11-2010, 09:53 PM
In your opinion, would Kobe and Shaq have left money on the table in other to win a Championship? Keep in mind, Shaq/Kobe split up primarily because neither want to take a pay cut. people calling Lebron names, need to know that he did something neither Kobe nor Shaq ever did for the Lakers.

In your opinion, do you think Kobe or Shaq would sacrifice for a championship?

First off, this is a stupid thread.

Second - You do realize this tool makes a crap load of money in endorsements and other ***** right? I dont think you can call this "leaving money on the table"

Third - Kobe nor Shaq never had to sacrifice anything to win a championship. They did it with their teams and their GM's worked their magic VIA trade and building around them. They never gathered with other free agents and made a "mega team"

con_the_don
07-11-2010, 09:55 PM
They did sign and then got traded. That's how Lebron and Bosh got the 6th year. The way they would leave 30 mil on the table is by just straight signing with the new team not a sign and trade. By doing a sign a trade they could get the max years and max dollars (6 yrs/125 million).

yea but they did that since wanted to get rid of beasley etc.

JonnyBrav000
07-11-2010, 09:55 PM
First off, when the Heat traded Beasley, they freed up enough cap space to sign all three players to max deals. So you don't know what you're saying.

Secondly, the Heat wanted to do sign and trade deals, they weren't forced to by Lebron/Bosh. I'm not exactly sure why the sign and trade is better over just signing them as free agents because I don't know all the specific salary cap rules, but what I do know is that it freed up more money and has given them more flexibility to sign people. It was the Heat/Riley that wanted to get the sign and trades done, not Lebron/Bosh.

Ok how many players did the heat have on their roster after the Beasley trade LOL... officially 1, Mario Chalmers, now with Wade, Lebron and Bosh, that's 4, now tell me how can they get at least 10 guys on their roster if they go over the salary cap??? Explain??? The sign and trade was salary dump, Bosh and Lebron did not take less, as a matter of fact they hurt the Heat by doing the sign and trade, if they really wanted to take less they would have just signed instead of cost them draft picks.

Why would Riley want to sign and trade? Why would it be his idea to surrender picks just to give Lebron and Bosh more money??? I'm sure Riley didn't have a problem with it, because he wants his big 3 to be happy. But seriously you think Riley was the one to say " I don't care if you want to take less Lebron, we are doing a sign and trade and giving up our future draft picks so you can make more money"? The sign and trade is attractive because it lets the players get a 10% pay increase every year. I am sure Lebron, and Bosh's agent pushed for this.

No the sign and trades did not give the HEat more flexibility. That is a lie, it is a salary dump trade to a team under the cap with no players going to the Raptors and Cavs. How does that give the Heat more flexibilty? The only thing that made them more flexible is trading Beasley because it freed 5 million to sign more guys and he is a SF/PF a position that is filled on the squad for a guy making that much. Good look to the Heat signing a bunch of players at the minimum salary.

con_the_don
07-11-2010, 09:56 PM
By the way, as great as Kobe is, the best player in the league, no athlete deserves more than 10 million per year. It is a shame how the average american salary can be like 40 thousand a year and these guys make that in their sleep.

funny my pops was just saying something similar how it's funny how our society prioritizes where these players get paid ridiculous money for "dribbling the ball" while teachers who educate our youth, or cops who risk their lives everyday get paid scrap money.

Hawkize31
07-11-2010, 09:59 PM
All I gotta say is Kobe knows what it takes to get a ring a hell of a lot more than LeBron. pc.

Yeah, being surrounded by a lot of talent. Which Lebron is now.

Great point you made...

con_the_don
07-11-2010, 10:01 PM
LOL I know, but thats because most analyst are stupid or they want to paint a pretty picture and most fans are mindless worshiping fools. Lebron is an a-hole for not letting the Cavs know privately what he was going to do. Even though the owner is no better for his comments and actions. But let's never paint Lebron as a kind, humble man because he is the opposite. I don't know why he said free agency was a humbling experience, I think that is the most over-used word by athletes, and they make no damn sense when they say it. Lebron, you used everyone and the stupid media fed into it, and now you have the nerve to pretend like you took less money??? Give me a break, your a douche bag. I hope you guys fail. Unless AI signs, because it would be nice for him to win one b4 he retires. Hey, at least Iverson doesn't pretend to be a humble person. If Lebron was more real, I would respect him. But he is a user and a liar and a young piggy backer and he quit on his team versus Boston and lied about the duking contest and tried to hide the video of him getting dunked on, and dissed the Magic when they beat them.

All I know is Lebron can't pull those stunts while on D-Wades team, because Wade has a ring and is a winner, and doesn't quit.


lol that reminds me...lebron fronted on the dunk contest..remember how he was like oh ima be in the dunk contest next year, then a no show....i guess it was a prediction of the future with the cavs, he promised a ring n that he'd compete till he got one, instead a no show.

Wrigley_Fan_11
07-11-2010, 10:01 PM
They're still leaving millions on the table. You sound like a kid with a dollar who doesn't want another one because you "already have a dollar." They're passing up a lot of money.

if anyone actually payed attention... once bosh and lebron change addresses to miami they actually make more money than a max contract because florida has no state income tax... so really they made more money by going there so this thread is pointless ahahhaahah

JonnyBrav000
07-11-2010, 10:04 PM
if anyone actually payed attention... once bosh and lebron change addresses to miami they actually make more money than a max contract because florida has no state income tax... so really they made more money by going there so this thread is pointless ahahhaahah



Exactly hahaha, everyone is really stupid to think Lebron is leaving money on the table. Americans get hit by taxes anywhere from 15 - 50%. Yes blame Obama and his people if you are getting hit above 30%. Lebron is saving so much money by going to Miami it's not even funny. Damn liars.

Wrigley_Fan_11
07-11-2010, 10:05 PM
sign n trades let them give them a 6th year which makes both players cheaper on this years cap number giving them room to sign guys like haslem and fisher... so the sign n trades did help the heat... do the research before you hate


Ok how many players did the heat have on their roster after the Beasley trade LOL... officially 1, Mario Chalmers, now with Wade, Lebron and Bosh, that's 4, now tell me how can they get at least 10 guys on their roster if they go over the salary cap??? Explain??? The sign and trade was salary dump, Bosh and Lebron did not take less, as a matter of fact they hurt the Heat by doing the sign and trade, if they really wanted to take less they would have just signed instead of cost them draft picks.

Why would Riley want to sign and trade? Why would it be his idea to surrender picks just to give Lebron and Bosh more money??? I'm sure Riley didn't have a problem with it, because he wants his big 3 to be happy. But seriously you think Riley was the one to say " I don't care if you want to take less Lebron, we are doing a sign and trade and giving up our future draft picks so you can make more money"? The sign and trade is attractive because it lets the players get a 10% pay increase every year. I am sure Lebron, and Bosh's agent pushed for this.

No the sign and trades did not give the HEat more flexibility. That is a lie, it is a salary dump trade to a team under the cap with no players going to the Raptors and Cavs. How does that give the Heat more flexibilty? The only thing that made them more flexible is trading Beasley because it freed 5 million to sign more guys and he is a SF/PF a position that is filled on the squad for a guy making that much. Good look to the Heat signing a bunch of players at the minimum salary.

JonnyBrav000
07-11-2010, 10:10 PM
sign n trades let them give them a 6th year which makes both players cheaper on this years cap number giving them room to sign guys like haslem and fisher... so the sign n trades did help the heat... do the research before you hate


LOL obviously the advantage to sign and trade is the 6th year. But it does not make the contract cheaper for the first year. If Lebron wants to sign for 14.5 million the first year, it doesnt matter if he gets 5 years or if he gets 6 years.

Do you think Lebron wouldn't be allowed to sign cheaper the first year if he only got 5? Thats dumb logic, no offense, no a sign and trade allows Bosh and Lebron to make 1 extra year and make more in yearly increases. Why don't you do the research, i know what I'm talking about. A sign and trade does not give the Heat more cap room, remember the Heat are under the cap, so they cannot go over it with a non-minimum contract, doesn't matter if it's a sign and trade. Why do you think they got rid of Beasley for nothing???

Aussy4GM
07-11-2010, 10:11 PM
Yet they have 9 Championships together AND never had to take a paycut to get them....go firgure. :rolleyes:

Also Never had to join forces with MJ to win those championships.

This Thread is BAITING. Its Made By a Heat Fan Who is caught up in defending his team because they took less money to win. thats cute and all but shaq didnt need to take a pay cut because he didnt need to join forces with MJ and Barkley to win a title. Kobe didnt Need To Join Tim Duncan & Tracy McGrady To win a title. So This Thread Is Pointless & Irrelevant.

con_the_don
07-11-2010, 10:16 PM
bottom line lebron n bosh getting paid more in mia...just disappointed in lebron as a competitor...la built a championship team. they worked around kobe n shaq n then kobe n got gasol and built a championship team..same with jordan...they however didnt act as GM's or whatever and have conference calls n be buddy buddy to be on the same team, they came in as being their own man, having their own mind, not being controlled by each others decision like the "big 3 in mia". lebron should be a leader on a team, now with the 3 they can each comfortably take the blame if something goes wrong. if they lose back to back years, i bet turmoil starts and media pulls them apart. maybe lebron couldn't take the scrutiny anymore idk, just dont get it. thats all.

JonnyBrav000
07-11-2010, 10:18 PM
lol that reminds me...lebron fronted on the dunk contest..remember how he was like oh ima be in the dunk contest next year, then a no show....i guess it was a prediction of the future with the cavs, he promised a ring n that he'd compete till he got one, instead a no show.


Word up. kobe did it, MJ did it, but Lebron is too cowardly to try, probably afraid he would lose.

D-Will4Prez
07-11-2010, 10:23 PM
No way, they wouldn't return a penny let alone a dime for a championship.

Jezeble
07-11-2010, 10:28 PM
I still don't see why you'd be crying. Does he pay for travel??? food??? Doesn't he have like over 100 million dollar nike contract. Let's see for i guy who didn't go to college i'd say we shouldn't feel bad. Look at doctors.

Not crying, but careful. For every Michael Jordon, there are dozens of ex-pro athletes who are broke and homeless.

bignate14
07-11-2010, 10:30 PM
hell no to both. They have 2 of the biggest egos in the nba, if not the 2 biggest.

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07-11-2010, 10:33 PM
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that was epic

bignate14
07-11-2010, 10:37 PM
^^^^ thanks haha

Derick713
07-11-2010, 10:44 PM
Shaquille O'Neal in his prime is worth more the LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade, and Chris Bosh. Shaquille O'Neal maybe the only player that can't be physically matched or defended. There are ways to stop James and Bryant. Shaq in his prime man handled a front court with Duncan and Robinson. Shaq's height, weight, athleticism, and everything else are off the charts. Shaq didn't even live up to his potential and he won 4 rings.

David017
07-12-2010, 12:55 AM
@op bias

THE MTL
07-12-2010, 01:02 AM
I get tired of hearing people say, "Oh, LeBron took less;" "Chris Bosh took less." What are we talking about here folks? We are talking about a little over 100 million vs 120 million. Are these guys going to go hungry even with signing for 100 million? Come on! It isn't like we are talking say taking $20,000 as compared to $100,000.

Dude 20 million dollars is still 20 million dollars. They could have made 20% more money than what they signed for.

And your analogy was bad. Its more like taking a $100,000 salary over a $120,000 salary! WHICH ONE WOULD YOU DO?

jiggin
07-12-2010, 01:04 AM
who says they haven't at some point in their careers?


besides, LBJ saved $15 million in taxes alone and he didn't take less money, the sign and trade that happened was to get them the max money.

Bosh saved even more than 15 million because the province taxes up north are higher than state taxes.

CBCable
07-12-2010, 01:10 AM
i'm not going to wade through a thousand pages of this stupid discussion, so this has already probably been broached but...

they didnt need to??

Laker Legend42
07-12-2010, 01:43 AM
In your opinion, would Kobe and Shaq have left money on the table in other to win a Championship? Keep in mind, Shaq/Kobe split up primarily because neither want to take a pay cut. people calling Lebron names, need to know that he did something neither Kobe nor Shaq ever did for the Lakers.

In your opinion, do you think Kobe or Shaq would sacrifice for a championship?

No. Niether of these guys would. When you look at Lebron's deal at face value it "appears" that he put winning ahead of money,but really how much did he lose? Nike will make sure he's okay. It's not like Lebron is a dude with something like a tampon or top soil and gravel endorsments. Non NBA money cushions the blow of taking less. Shaq and Kobe had so much hate for eachother one couldn't see making less than the other. The last offer made to Shaq was something like 3yrs 90mil. He took less in Miami to show up the Lakers. Just like when he paid for George Mikan's funeral.

CBCable
07-12-2010, 01:48 AM
Shaquille O'Neal in his prime is worth more the LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade, and Chris Bosh. Shaquille O'Neal maybe the only player that can't be physically matched or defended. There are ways to stop James and Bryant. Shaq in his prime man handled a front court with Duncan and Robinson. Shaq's height, weight, athleticism, and everything else are off the charts. Shaq didn't even live up to his potential and he won 4 rings.

dude amen. people forget how DOMINANT shaq was. totally unstoppable.

ntat
07-12-2010, 01:53 AM
It doesn't matter how much it is. Bottom line, they were entitled to more and they accepted less. Bron and Bosh left $50 Million on the table between them. WOULD YOU?:confused:


Well I dont know how much anyone that plays a game for money is ENTITLED to 130million dollars, but they could have accepted larger deals, you are correct.

ntat
07-12-2010, 01:57 AM
Dude 20 million dollars is still 20 million dollars. They could have made 20% more money than what they signed for.

And your analogy was bad. Its more like taking a $100,000 salary over a $120,000 salary! WHICH ONE WOULD YOU DO?

They are both bad analogies. while 20 million dollars is a grip, they are rich for ever with 100 instead of the 120. 120k does not a rich man make. And besides, those 3 will make up for it in endorsments, and like someone said, Bosh is saving a grip in taxes, im sure Lebron gets some state tax benefits in Miami too.

mynameismo
07-12-2010, 02:01 AM
NO because Shaq and Kobe already HAVE RINGS. They don't need to take LESS JUST TO CHASE A RING.. *ehem* LEBRON *ehem*

Blazers#1Fan
07-12-2010, 02:16 AM
It doesn't matter how much it is. Bottom line, they were entitled to more and they accepted less. Bron and Bosh left $50 Million on the table between them. WOULD YOU?:confused:

they each took 110 million compared to 120 million thats 20 million wade took 107million all 3 put together took 33 million less

CALIABQLKRS
07-12-2010, 02:39 AM
Just because they r rich doesn't mean they don't have regular everyday problems too. Do u know what tax bracket these guys fall under at their current salaries? Look it up. I've been there, and I'm sure u have been too. He has at least $5.5 million in Fed taxes taken off the top. So, yes, I don't have sympathy for them, but I empathize. None of us like giving away a huge chunk of our salaries to the government.

Latrell Sprewell is that u?? lol give me a freakin break! U should be banned for even thinking bout making a statement like that... Basketball players only problem is hoping they dont get caught like Tiger Woods! and you wanna try to tell us about their tax brackets... lol :facepalm:

static_inferno
07-12-2010, 03:41 AM
Great, another "Kobe is selfish and Lebron isn't" thread. I suggest that the mods lock this thread.

tribalpinoy
07-12-2010, 03:59 AM
It doesn't matter how much it is. Bottom line, they were entitled to more and they accepted less. Bron and Bosh left $50 Million on the table between them. WOULD YOU?:confused:

If I'm not mistaken, the income tax laws in Florida make up for that and that 10% annual raise they each get that's in there contract (they'll make that money back). As well as any kinda of endorsement deals they get from the "Big 3" or whatever they end up being called. I'm not buying this "They left money on the table" stuff. If anything, they teamed up to make MORE money.

Fireworld
07-12-2010, 04:52 AM
Dumb thread. Shaq got traded cause Kobe wanted to be the man on a championship team, something Bron couldn't handle. O'Neil got traded by the Lakers cause Kobe was the wiser pick; younger, better potential. Yes, it payed off.

Eyegazym27
07-12-2010, 05:19 AM
no need to take less when you have a team that can get you 5 rings, Kobe, and 4 rings, Shaq, and still take the max check you wanted to the bank along with your rings and finals MVP trophies. not meaning to hate but thats the bottom line isnt it?

and if the Heat win the Ship who do people think gets Bill Russell's trophy? might b safe to say that's when these great friends (more likely to be Wade and LeBron's (sorry Bosh) egos end up showing up on on the court with them. especially after the flack LeBron has recieved since "the decision"

valade16
07-12-2010, 05:46 AM
no need to take less when you have a team that can get you 5 rings, Kobe, and 4 rings, Shaq, and still take the max check you wanted to the bank along with your rings and finals MVP trophies. not meaning to hate but thats the bottom line isnt it?

and if the Heat win the Ship who do people think gets Bill Russell's trophy? might b safe to say that's when these great friends (more likely to be Wade and LeBron's (sorry Bosh) egos end up showing up on on the court with them. especially after the flack LeBron has recieved since "the decision"

So your telling everyone on here that LeBron should live with 0 titles simply because he was drafted by a worse run franchise?

If Kobe had been drafted by Cle, how many titles does he win? 0? now imagine LeBron drafted to the power of the Lakers.

see how you kind of sound like a douche...

valade16
07-12-2010, 05:51 AM
No. Niether of these guys would. When you look at Lebron's deal at face value it "appears" that he put winning ahead of money,but really how much did he lose? Nike will make sure he's okay. It's not like Lebron is a dude with something like a tampon or top soil and gravel endorsments. Non NBA money cushions the blow of taking less. Shaq and Kobe had so much hate for eachother one couldn't see making less than the other. The last offer made to Shaq was something like 3yrs 90mil. He took less in Miami to show up the Lakers. Just like when he paid for George Mikan's funeral.

It's not about the value, it's that he was willing to sacrifice ANY amount of money to go to a winning team.

here's a fun expirement, take out a $100 bill, now go flush it down the toilet...

Losing money sucks doesn't it?

Bottom line, there isn't a single person on here who wouldn't rather be making 120 mil instead of 100 mil, regardless of whether you'd take both.

If someone walked up to you when you had 100 mil and offered to give you 20 mil, would you say "no thanks, I think I have enough cash".

No you wouldn't.