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View Full Version : Why Didn't Shaq Get The Hate Lebron's Getting?



cmellofan15
07-09-2010, 02:26 PM
article about Shaq going west.


Loyalty to an owner? Come on. Base a decision on friendship? See Juwan Howard/Chris Webber. Stand by Hardaway? Hardy har har.

If a championship ever factored into it, all West had to remind O'Neal of was that he was swept, four-zero, by Jordan's Bulls in the conference finals less than two months ago. That the Knicks and Miami have restocked their shelves, that even Atlanta, with Dikembe Mutombo, may have a chance. Final analysis: Go west, large man!

link (http://www.nytimes.com/1996/07/19/sports/sports-of-the-times-shaq-is-now-california-dreamin.html)

Shaq made it clear he was going there to win, and now LeBron is doing the same. Is it because LeBron was so successful by himself in Cleveland? Is there really a difference between these two situations?

Hellcrooner
07-09-2010, 02:28 PM
because he didnt make a suckkers plan to join a team with grant hill, michel jordan, jason kidd and their motthers.

R_O_W_E
07-09-2010, 02:29 PM
Yes.

Shaq went to a team where he could be the "Franchise" player. For his 4 years in LA he didn't win much of anything. He was playing with some solid guys like Eddie Jones & Nick Van Exel. Nobody knew Kobe would emerge and become the sidekick he needed to carry the Lakers to 3 NBA Finals. It just happened like that.

LeBron is knowingly going to a team with 2 All Stars in place, taking less money to do it, and is doing it because he wants to win rings now.

AllTimeBest
07-09-2010, 02:31 PM
Didn't Shaw get forced out of LA :shrug:

cmellofan15
07-09-2010, 02:31 PM
when did it become a bad idea to want to win? nobody wants to have 120mill and countless mvps with no rings.

Rivera
07-09-2010, 02:31 PM
because he didnt make a suckkers plan to join a team with grant hill, michel jordan, jason kidd and their motthers.

this

also orlando was no shaqs hometown

and when shaq was leavin to LA lakers the media age isnt what it is today
there wasnt instant updates not every1 had a computer yet and there was no twitter or Facebook

cmellofan15
07-09-2010, 02:35 PM
so it's better to go to a place for money rather than winning? cool.

ManRam
07-09-2010, 02:37 PM
Shaq went to LA solely to make more money, become a star not just in the NBA, but outside of it, and purely for selfish reasons.

It was the far more selfish act.

R_O_W_E
07-09-2010, 02:38 PM
so it's better to go to a place for money rather than winning? cool.

No. Its better for you to be an actual leader of your own team and carry your franchise to a Championship in your prime. The lack of pride by LeBron is what people are upset about.

The NBA is about legacy. Anybody can win a ring, but its about making winning rings apart of your legacy.

Sandman
07-09-2010, 02:39 PM
The whole Shaq mess started with a lowball offer from Orlando.

GSW Hoops
07-09-2010, 02:39 PM
Maybe because Shaq didn't plan a primetime television special to showcase himself and his "decision."

R_O_W_E
07-09-2010, 02:41 PM
Shaq went to LA solely to make more money, become a star not just in the NBA, but outside of it, and purely for selfish reasons.

It was the far more selfish act.

I understand you like LeBron a lot, but dont let your feelings for LeBron blind you to the purpose of this move. The purpose of LeBron going to Miami is to win rings, he is sacrificing his legacy, leaving a team that did everything for him, and leaving his comfort zone to do it.

He knew what he was going to do from the jump(2008 Summer Olympics), and allowed several teams to trade away important assets for several years to sign him.

Hellcrooner
07-09-2010, 02:41 PM
Maybe because Shaq didn't plan a primetime television special to showcase himself and his "decision."

Thats another reason.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-09-2010, 02:41 PM
this

also orlando was no shaqs hometown

and when shaq was leavin to LA lakers the media age isnt what it is today
there wasnt instant updates not every1 had a computer yet and there was no twitter or Facebook

So the media being bigger is Lebron's fault?

Or people kept making reports, articles, tweets, news coverage is Lebron's fault too?

He did do some things like hold a live show to make his decision but not everything is on Lebron when it comes to the media.

Like the man does 1 thing and the media makes an article on it and you guys hate on Lebron. It's not Lebron's fault, it's the media.

It's like when teenage girls hate on the most popular girl in school cuz she's popular.

Bigbadmoffo
07-09-2010, 02:43 PM
because he didnt make a suckkers plan to join a team with grant hill, michel jordan, jason kidd and their motthers.

This plus it's not Shaqs hometown. Lebron made it to the finals and then finished first over all. I see Bosh leaving and i'm a raps fan but what james did is terrible.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-09-2010, 02:44 PM
I understand you like LeBron a lot, but dont let your feelings for LeBron blind you to the purpose of this move. The purpose of LeBron going to Miami is to win rings, he is sacrificing his legacy, leaving a team that did everything for him, and leaving his comfort zone to do it.

He knew what he was going to do from the jump(2008 Summer Olympics), and allowed several teams to trade away important assets for several years to sign him.

That is so wrong.

Lebron made that franchise again after being dead for so many years. That franchise didn't do as much for him as Lebron did for that franchise.

iggypop123
07-09-2010, 02:44 PM
orlando lowballed him, he didnt have 2 all stars waiting for him in LA, he didnt go on tv to humiliate his hometown, shaq took the max.

cmellofan15
07-09-2010, 02:45 PM
No. Its better for you to be an actual leader of your own team and carry your franchise to a Championship in your prime. The lack of pride by LeBron is what people are upset about.

The NBA is about legacy. Anybody can win a ring, but its about making winning rings apart of your legacy.

So instead of going to a team of a star supporting cast and an experienced coach he should stay in Cleveland with one of the worst starting lineups (outside of LeBron) in basketball? No way he was going to win a ring in Cleveland, he was getting further away each season and the mediocre players he was surrounded by were just getting worse. I guess he should have stayed just so he could be an almost winner in Cleveland and have all the money he wanted.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-09-2010, 02:45 PM
No. Its better for you to be an actual leader of your own team and carry your franchise to a Championship in your prime. The lack of pride by LeBron is what people are upset about.

The NBA is about legacy. Anybody can win a ring, but its about making winning rings apart of your legacy.

Meh.

People say Kobe's got a legacy when Shaq was the leader of that team.

Bigbadmoffo
07-09-2010, 02:46 PM
So the media being bigger is Lebron's fault?

Or people kept making reports, articles, tweets, news coverage is Lebron's fault too?

He did do some things like hold a live show to make his decision but not everything is on Lebron when it comes to the media.

Like the man does 1 thing and the media makes an article on it and you guys hate on Lebron. It's not Lebron's fault, it's the media.

It's like when teenage girls hate on the most popular girl in school cuz she's popular.

He betrayed his home town. I mean they finish first and the year before went to the finals. Winning a championship is hard you can't expect it to be so easy.

yanks 4lif3
07-09-2010, 02:47 PM
I remember watching Shaq's decision primetime and likened it to LeBron's last night.... oh wait, Shaq never had a primetime special.

NYtilIdie
07-09-2010, 02:47 PM
Because Shaq didn't join a team that had two Top 10 players on it.

GSW Hoops
07-09-2010, 02:47 PM
That is so wrong.

Lebron made that franchise again after being dead for so many years. That franchise didn't do as much for him as Lebron did for that franchise.

Exactly right. Like I said last night, the Cavs were the Clippers of the Eastern Conference before LeBron got there.

R_O_W_E
07-09-2010, 02:47 PM
So the media being bigger is Lebron's fault?

Or people kept making reports, articles, tweets, news coverage is Lebron's fault too?

He did do some things like hold a live show to make his decision but not everything is on Lebron when it comes to the media.

Like the man does 1 thing and the media makes an article on it and you guys hate on Lebron. It's not Lebron's fault, it's the media.

It's like when teenage girls hate on the most popular girl in school cuz she's popular.

People dislike LeBron solely because he doesn't handle business the way that Kobe does. LeBron is more about himself & things outside of basketball than he is about the actual game of basketball.

LeBron is very respectful & he understands the history of the game but he has yet to show a real desire to win. He right now is showing as much heart as Vince Carter and T-Mac. He didn't show it in the Olympics, he got outplayed by Melo. He hasn't shown it in the Playoff so far. Its like he claims he cares more about championships than individual accolades but he doesn't carry himself like that.

netsgiantsyanks
07-09-2010, 02:47 PM
because shaq didnt play mind games and shaq didnt have a ****ing hour tv special to tell people where hes going

Bigbadmoffo
07-09-2010, 02:48 PM
Meh.

People say Kobe's got a legacy when Shaq was the leader of that team.

Yeah but Kbe didn't leave to join superstars. Even when the lakers sucked Kobe fought through it. I the end of the day Lebron can't pass Kobe or Jordan.

cmellofan15
07-09-2010, 02:48 PM
orlando lowballed him, he didnt have 2 all stars waiting for him in LA, he didnt go on tv to humiliate his hometown, shaq took the max.

the Cavs gave him some BS pitch about being a hometown hero and had no focus of winning in their video. I guess the reason he's Satan is because he decided to go to a team with better players instead of taking the absolute max.

Rivera
07-09-2010, 02:49 PM
So the media being bigger is Lebron's fault?

Or people kept making reports, articles, tweets, news coverage is Lebron's fault too?

He did do some things like hold a live show to make his decision but not everything is on Lebron when it comes to the media.

Like the man does 1 thing and the media makes an article on it and you guys hate on Lebron. It's not Lebron's fault, it's the media.

It's like when teenage girls hate on the most popular girl in school cuz she's popular.

No its just a fact u know thats part of the reason for the hate so dont try to make me look stupid suckkaaa

guarnteed if shaq was lebrons age right now and he left orlando for LA in 2010 rather than (fill in the blank with the yr he left) he would be as hated especialy if he did a 1hr ESPN special

R_O_W_E
07-09-2010, 02:49 PM
That is so wrong.

Lebron made that franchise again after being dead for so many years. That franchise didn't do as much for him as Lebron did for that franchise.

They did everything for him. They coddled him ever since they acquired LeBron. He could do "no wrong" in Cleveland. They gave him that much power.

What star NBA player can show up at a home Playoff Game wearing the opposing teams hat and still be cheered?

cmellofan15
07-09-2010, 02:49 PM
Because Shaq didn't join a team that had two Top 10 players on it.

Bosh isn't top 10.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-09-2010, 02:50 PM
He betrayed his home town. I mean they finish first and the year before went to the finals. Winning a championship is hard you can't expect it to be so easy.

I feel sad that he left his home town. I wanted him to stay or go to NY.But if he left his hometown, so what?I know Derrick Rose is not going to get the hate if he leaves Chicago.

And exactly. They went to the finals in 2007, left in the ECF in 2008 and 2009, then got out in the 2nd round of 2010. They have been regressing each year. The Cavs have made trades but they could have gotten the likes of Amare, Carter, Redd, etc who were better than Mo or Jamison. I would have left too if my franchise chose Shaq over Amare.

R_O_W_E
07-09-2010, 02:50 PM
Meh.

People say Kobe's got a legacy when Shaq was the leader of that team.

People dont give the credit Kobe deserves for those first 3 championships. Without Kobe they wouldn't have won, but Kobe wasn't the most important player on that team.

cmellofan15
07-09-2010, 02:51 PM
Yeah but Kbe didn't leave to join superstars. Even when the lakers sucked Kobe fought through it. I the end of the day Lebron can't pass Kobe or Jordan.

Kobe cried like a **** and talked about going to Philly the whole season they were doing bad.

netsgiantsyanks
07-09-2010, 02:51 PM
I understand you like LeBron a lot, but dont let your feelings for LeBron blind you to the purpose of this move. The purpose of LeBron going to Miami is to win rings, he is sacrificing his legacy, leaving a team that did everything for him, and leaving his comfort zone to do it.

He knew what he was going to do from the jump(2008 Summer Olympics), and allowed several teams to trade away important assets for several years to sign him.

i agree with the beginning, but not the latter. its not his fault teams were dumb enough to trade all their talent thinking that they were going to get lebron i.e. the knicks

jetsforever
07-09-2010, 02:51 PM
Maybe because Shaq didn't plan a primetime television special to showcase himself and his "decision."

This 1000000x

Bigbadmoffo
07-09-2010, 02:51 PM
That is so wrong.

Lebron made that franchise again after being dead for so many years. That franchise didn't do as much for him as Lebron did for that franchise.

They had one of the highest payrolls. They did everything they could, Lebron did choke in my opinion.

Hellcrooner
07-09-2010, 02:51 PM
Because Shaq didn't join a team that had two Top 10 players on it.

bosh is not top ten,

and now has regfused any chance to ever be it.

Bigbadmoffo
07-09-2010, 02:52 PM
i agree with the beginning, but not the latter. its not his fault teams were dumb enough to trade all their talent thinking that they were going to get lebron i.e. the knicks

This.

LionBryan
07-09-2010, 02:52 PM
No 1 hour television special to knife the state of Florida in the back is 1 difference.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-09-2010, 02:53 PM
Yeah but Kbe didn't leave to join superstars. Even when the lakers sucked Kobe fought through it. I the end of the day Lebron can't pass Kobe or Jordan.

Meh.

Everyone's got an excuse to keep down players.

If Lebron got like wins 10 rings, 10 MVP, 10 Finals MVP, and setting numerous records, they'll make an excuse so he won't be better than either player.

Which is weird because everyone was saying Lebron will never be better than Kobe cuz he doesn't have a ring. But yet if Lebron passes Kobe in rings, people will find another way to make an excuse.

R_O_W_E
07-09-2010, 02:53 PM
So instead of going to a team of a star supporting cast and an experienced coach he should stay in Cleveland with one of the worst starting lineups (outside of LeBron) in basketball? No way he was going to win a ring in Cleveland, he was getting further away each season and the mediocre players he was surrounded by were just getting worse. I guess he should have stayed just so he could be an almost winner in Cleveland and have all the money he wanted.

Cleveland has one of the worst starting lineups in basketball? Are you serious? :laugh2:

Cleveland has completely renovated that roster over the last 3 years. They have players on that team put in place to play around LeBron. The only thing missing is a legit #2 option, and at some point they would've been able to acquire that type of player.

The fact remains he should've been willing to make it through the storm in Cleveland. This is what the great players in the NBA did. Kobe could've easily joined the Clippers who had a talented team in place, instead he stuck with LA and in 2-3 years they were back in the NBA Finals.

Bigbadmoffo
07-09-2010, 02:54 PM
Kobe cried like a **** and talked about going to Philly the whole season they were doing bad.

but did he? This wasn't even a playoff team, Lebron was on a first over all team.

R_O_W_E
07-09-2010, 02:55 PM
Kobe cried like a **** and talked about going to Philly the whole season they were doing bad.

Kobe never cried to go to Philly. Are you ****ing kidding me? :laugh2:

Kobe is hated in Philly. Philly has never been "home" to Kobe.

R_O_W_E
07-09-2010, 02:57 PM
i agree with the beginning, but not the latter. its not his fault teams were dumb enough to trade all their talent thinking that they were going to get lebron i.e. the knicks

No. I am specifically talking about Cleveland. Why do you ask management to make certain moves gearing up for the short term and long term instead of at least saying why you're leaving. He didn't even say why he left Cleveland, and he couldn't use that they weren't good enough.

There is no excuse. The only team LeBron had an excuse to go to was the New York Knicks. That would've been a Shaq-like move in which it hurts Cleveland but they understand why he did it.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-09-2010, 02:57 PM
They had one of the highest payrolls. They did everything they could, Lebron did choke in my opinion.

They chose Shaq over Amare.

Shaq is good but Amare is a superstar. They also surrounded him with Mo Williams, Larry Hughes, Ben Wallace, Wally Szczerbiak, Antawn Jamison and a couple of other people. Those guys are good but they aren't legit stars who can help him.


And that payroll shouldn't be used to prove something. Shaq gets 20 mil and we all know that he isn't worth his money. Varejao got a big contract that he probably shouldn't have gotten. If you give each player a proper contract based on their talent level, they would be near the middle.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-09-2010, 02:59 PM
No its just a fact u know thats part of the reason for the hate so dont try to make me look stupid suckkaaa

guarnteed if shaq was lebrons age right now and he left orlando for LA in 2010 rather than (fill in the blank with the yr he left) he would be as hated especialy if he did a 1hr ESPN special

But the fact that you people hate on the guy cuz he gets attention he doesn't even ask for is sad. Sure he'll like the attention but it's not like he ask for it 24/7.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-09-2010, 02:59 PM
People dont give the credit Kobe deserves for those first 3 championships. Without Kobe they wouldn't have won, but Kobe wasn't the most important player on that team.

So Lebron shouldn't get recognition either for being the best player and most important on the championship team?

R_O_W_E
07-09-2010, 02:59 PM
When did Cleveland have a mediocre team? They've had the best record in the NBA for the past 2 seasons. The only problem with Cleveland is that LeBron has to play #1 option and #2 option in the Playoffs.

In 2 years they would've been well under the cap and capable of adding CP3 or another talent to join him.

NYtilIdie
07-09-2010, 02:59 PM
the Cavs gave him some BS pitch about being a hometown hero and had no focus of winning in their video. I guess the reason he's Satan is because he decided to go to a team with better players instead of taking the absolute max.
No they also made a cartoon starring him and his friends with inside jokes between them! Clearly that let Lebron now how serious they were about winning :rolleyes:


Bosh isn't top 10.

24/11? You could certainly make a case for him.

Hindy27
07-09-2010, 02:59 PM
So the media being bigger is Lebron's fault?

Or people kept making reports, articles, tweets, news coverage is Lebron's fault too?

I think you've missed the point.
There was a lot of normal NBA fans that didn't like the Shaq move but they didn't have a million different forums and websites to vent on.

I agree with others as well, the moves are different.
Shaq went to make more money in a bigger market, he was also going there to be 'the man', he just got lucky with Kobe. If LBJ signed with NY or Chicago some people would be venting but not as much as now.

LBJ has this hate because he has taken the cowards way out, it all got too hard so he quit. It also looks like they had it all planned and screwed everyone around with the dog and pony show.

As someone said it would only be similar if Shaq organised to join a team with Hill and Kidd, or Payton and Malone or something. If that had happened he would've copped the same stuff as LBJ.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-09-2010, 03:00 PM
No. I am specifically talking about Cleveland. Why do you ask management to make certain moves gearing up for the short term and long term instead of at least saying why you're leaving. He didn't even say why he left Cleveland, and he couldn't use that they weren't good enough.

There is no excuse. The only team LeBron had an excuse to go to was the New York Knicks. That would've been a Shaq-like move in which it hurts Cleveland but they understand why he did it.

He thought they were good moves. It didn't work out. Is that his fault?

R_O_W_E
07-09-2010, 03:01 PM
So Lebron shouldn't get recognition either for being the best player and most important on the championship team?

I never said that. The point is that LeBron is sacrificing much of his individual legacy for the sake of tying his legacy into the Heat teams of the 2010's.

LeBron's legacy will now be synonymous with this Heat "Dynasty".

Raps18-19 Champ
07-09-2010, 03:02 PM
Cleveland has one of the worst starting lineups in basketball? Are you serious? :laugh2:

Cleveland has completely renovated that roster over the last 3 years. They have players on that team put in place to play around LeBron. The only thing missing is a legit #2 option, and at some point they would've been able to acquire that type of player.

The fact remains he should've been willing to make it through the storm in Cleveland. This is what the great players in the NBA did. Kobe could've easily joined the Clippers who had a talented team in place, instead he stuck with LA and in 2-3 years they were back in the NBA Finals.

Kobe wanted to leave and asked for a trade. But he couldn't because they couldn't make a deal and he had no power to make his own decision. But he still wanted to leave even when the season started.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-09-2010, 03:03 PM
I never said that. The point is that LeBron is sacrificing much of his individual legacy for the sake of tying his legacy into the Heat teams of the 2010's.

LeBron's legacy will now be synonymous with this Heat "Dynasty".

That's on Lebron.

Why should we care about his legacy?

blazerman
07-09-2010, 03:03 PM
Shaq's a straightup bum these days

R_O_W_E
07-09-2010, 03:04 PM
He thought they were good moves. It didn't work out. Is that his fault?

No. But the point is that they were close and ownership/management were willing to do anything possible for him to win.

Secondly, they didn't pick Shaq over Amare. They acquired Shaq when Amare wasn't available for that package. We almost acquired Amare last summer for a much better package that was being offered.

Thirdly, we will never know who backed off on that Amare-Cavs deal.

NYtilIdie
07-09-2010, 03:05 PM
When did Cleveland have a mediocre team? They've had the best record in the NBA for the past 2 seasons. The only problem with Cleveland is that LeBron has to play #1 option and #2 option in the Playoffs.

In 2 years they would've been well under the cap and capable of adding CP3 or another talent to join him.

You just answered your own question right there. Thats why it was the right decision to leave.

Plus if he can't get Artest or Ariza or even Bosh what makes you think he can get CP3 to come to Cleveland? Face it nobody wants to play in Cleveland. In 2012 LA will have enough CAP space for a Max like CP3.

So who do you think he's going to choose? Cleveland or LA? Yeah real tough decision right there :rolleyes:

cmellofan15
07-09-2010, 03:05 PM
When did Cleveland have a mediocre team? They've had the best record in the NBA for the past 2 seasons. The only problem with Cleveland is that LeBron has to play #1 option and #2 option in the Playoffs.

In 2 years they would've been well under the cap and capable of adding CP3 or another talent to join him.

before LeBron they were far worse than mediocre, and without LeBron the team is just bad. and in 2011-2012 Jamison makes 15mill, Mo 8.5mill, Andy 7.7mill and altogether they have 36mill guaranteed. that only gives 'em 14mill to sign someone, probably not CP3 with that amount.

REALLYYYYY?
07-09-2010, 03:07 PM
because he didnt make a suckkers plan to join a team with grant hill, michel jordan, jason kidd and their motthers.

lol. nice.

Pistol_Pete
07-09-2010, 03:07 PM
when did it become a bad idea to want to win? nobody wants to have 120mill and countless mvps with no rings.

JJ does.

Amare does.

Plenty of people do.

R_O_W_E
07-09-2010, 03:07 PM
Kobe wanted to leave and asked for a trade. But he couldn't because they couldn't make a deal and he had no power to make his own decision. But he still wanted to leave even when the season started.

Kobe wanted to leave because he didn't feel the Lakers were trying to do enough to win a Championship. Point blank. Kobe is all about championships, making the Playoffs is not that important to him.

Kobe would've been a Bull, but the Lakers didnt want to do the deal unless they got Deng. Kobe wouldn't have been a Bull unless he could play with Deng.

cmellofan15
07-09-2010, 03:07 PM
No. But the point is that they were close and ownership/management were willing to do anything possible for him to win.

the thing is they can't do anything because they have nothing of value to get another star alongside LeBron.

magichatnumber9
07-09-2010, 03:07 PM
so it's better to go to a place for money rather than winning? cool.Dude its obvious that you just don't get it. So quit

Raps18-19 Champ
07-09-2010, 03:07 PM
I think you've missed the point.
There was a lot of normal NBA fans that didn't like the Shaq move but they didn't have a million different forums and websites to vent on.

I agree with others as well, the moves are different.
Shaq went to make more money in a bigger market, he was also going there to be 'the man', he just got lucky with Kobe. If LBJ signed with NY or Chicago some people would be venting but not as much as now.

LBJ has this hate because he has taken the cowards way out, it all got too hard so he quit. It also looks like they had it all planned and screwed everyone around with the dog and pony show.

As someone said it would only be similar if Shaq organised to join a team with Hill and Kidd, or Payton and Malone or something. If that had happened he would've copped the same stuff as LBJ.

Even if Wade and Bosh decided to go to Cleveland, he'd still get the hate. I would think Lebron rather let Wade and Bosh come to Cleveland than Lebron go to the Heat. It's just that Lebron going to Miami was more convenient.

Like I said, I don't like Lebron going to Miami but the man wants to win. It just so happens it was more convient that he go to Miami that Wade or Bosh to come to Cleveland.

sunnydayin'zona
07-09-2010, 03:08 PM
when did it become a bad idea to want to win? nobody wants to have 120mill and countless mvps with no rings.

i'd gladly want 120mill and countless mvps even without rings. psh. i dont even need the mvps haha

cmellofan15
07-09-2010, 03:08 PM
Kobe wanted to leave because he didn't feel the Lakers were trying to do enough to win a Championship. Point blank. Kobe is all about championships, making the Playoffs is not that important to him.

if you haven't got it by now LeBron is about the EXACT same thing. he can't do it in Cleveland so he left. simple as that.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-09-2010, 03:09 PM
Kobe wanted to leave because he didn't feel the Lakers were trying to do enough to win a Championship. Point blank. Kobe is all about championships, making the Playoffs is not that important to him.

Kobe would've been a Bull, but the Lakers didnt want to do the deal unless they got Deng. Kobe wouldn't have been a Bull unless he could play with Deng.

Did you feel that the Cavs getting Shaq, or Mo Williams would have gotten them a title? I don't think so.

I had the Cavs winning the championship the last 2 years. And each time, I was disappointed cuz the Cavs supporting cast didn't do ****.

Lakers211221
07-09-2010, 03:09 PM
when did it become a bad idea to want to win? nobody wants to have 120mill and countless mvps with no rings.

I do!

R_O_W_E
07-09-2010, 03:09 PM
before LeBron they were far worse than mediocre, and without LeBron the team is just bad. and in 2011-2012 Jamison makes 15mill, Mo 8.5mill, Andy 7.7mill and altogether they have 36mill guaranteed. that only gives 'em 14mill to sign someone, probably not CP3 with that amount.

I realize how bad they were before LeBron. Secondly, without LeBron, Cleveland is still a solid team.

Mo was on the trading block. Delonte was on the trading block.

$14 Million would've been enough to sign CP3, if LeBron was still there. You see LeBron, Wade, & Bosh taking paycuts to play with each other. Why would CP3 take the biggest contract available and join a team like the T'Wolves? :laugh2:

Hindy27
07-09-2010, 03:09 PM
I never said that. The point is that LeBron is sacrificing much of his individual legacy for the sake of tying his legacy into the Heat teams of the 2010's.

LeBron's legacy will now be synonymous with this Heat "Dynasty".
While the dynasties have all been good teams there was always the one leader, or the one who stood out. Magic, Bird, Jordan, Shaq(3peat), Duncan and Kobe(last 2).

With Wade being the closer this 'dynasty' will always be Wade's team, LBJ will be the Pippen, Worthy or McHale type player. Yeah he might put up some good numbers but he'll be taking a backseat in the 4th quarter, and the greats don't do that.

R_O_W_E
07-09-2010, 03:10 PM
if you haven't got it by now LeBron is about the EXACT same thing. he can't do it in Cleveland so he left. simple as that.

LeBron is not anything like Kobe. You're really going overboard with your admiration.

Lakers211221
07-09-2010, 03:10 PM
Did you feel that the Cavs getting Shaq, or Mo Williams would have gotten them a title? I don't think so.

I had the Cavs winning the championship the last 2 years. And each time, I was disappointed cuz the Cavs supporting cast didn't do ****.

The playoff series that I watch the Cavs get eliminated in last year was a result of Lebron playing like ****

R_O_W_E
07-09-2010, 03:12 PM
Did you feel that the Cavs getting Shaq, or Mo Williams would have gotten them a title? I don't think so.

I had the Cavs winning the championship the last 2 years. And each time, I was disappointed cuz the Cavs supporting cast didn't do ****.

That is what happens sometimes. You gotta go through the close calls before you get that chip. Jordan didn't quit on the Bulls after they kept losing to Detroit, he worked at it and eventually they broke through and started their Dynasty.

LeBron could've done the same. Instead he quits on Cleveland as their Franchise player to just become a great player on a great team. That is what he wants his legacy to represent.

cmellofan15
07-09-2010, 03:12 PM
I realize how bad they were before LeBron. Secondly, without LeBron, Cleveland is still a solid team.

Mo was on the trading block. Delonte was on the trading block.

$14 Million would've been enough to sign CP3, if LeBron was still there. You see LeBron, Wade, & Bosh taking paycuts to play with each other. Why would CP3 take the biggest contract available and join a team like the T'Wolves? :laugh2:

I made an error, they'd actually only have 12mill.

cmellofan15
07-09-2010, 03:14 PM
LeBron is not anything like Kobe. You're really going overboard with your admiration.

this is a quote from you

"Kobe wanted to leave because he didn't feel the Lakers were trying to do enough to win a Championship. Point blank. Kobe is all about championships, making the Playoffs is not that important to him."

if this isn't what LeBron's doing, then what exactly is he doing? you're going overboard with your hate for the 'ol hometown hero.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-09-2010, 03:14 PM
No. But the point is that they were close and ownership/management were willing to do anything possible for him to win.

Secondly, they didn't pick Shaq over Amare. They acquired Shaq when Amare wasn't available for that package. We almost acquired Amare last summer for a much better package that was being offered.

Thirdly, we will never know who backed off on that Amare-Cavs deal.

Actually, the Cavs front office could have offered Szczerbiak and other pieces for Amare. The Suns actually wanted Sczerbiak(expiring) but the Cavs wanted it to be Ben Wallace(1 more year to go) because they didn't want to take on so much cap.

R_O_W_E
07-09-2010, 03:15 PM
the thing is they can't do anything because they have nothing of value to get another star alongside LeBron.

False.

As long as they had LeBron, that is the only pitch they need. They pulled off some very good deals to acquire some good talents that fit next to LeBron.

The problem is they should've done this early on in LeBron's career rather than his final 2 years in Cleveland. Once he signed that 3 year extension and the 2010 Talk started up it put Cleveland on notice to do whatever was possible to win. LeBron didn't trust Cleveland to consistently do it if he signed on for another 6 years.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-09-2010, 03:16 PM
That is what happens sometimes. You gotta go through the close calls before you get that chip. Jordan didn't quit on the Bulls after they kept losing to Detroit, he worked at it and eventually they broke through and started their Dynasty.

LeBron could've done the same. Instead he quits on Cleveland as their Franchise player to just become a great player on a great team. That is what he wants his legacy to represent.

Jordan had great players though. He was lucky that they had Pippen beside Jordan.

Lebron wasn't as lucky so he took matters into his own hands.

R_O_W_E
07-09-2010, 03:16 PM
Actually, the Cavs front office could have offered Szczerbiak and other pieces for Amare. The Suns actually wanted Sczerbiak(expiring) but the Cavs wanted it to be Ben Wallace(1 more year to go) because they didn't want to take on so much cap.

They couldn't have offered Wally. He had already expired last summer.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-09-2010, 03:17 PM
The playoff series that I watch the Cavs get eliminated in last year was a result of Lebron playing like ****

Everyone else on that team underachieved though. Lebron still did what he usually does.

GSW Hoops
07-09-2010, 03:17 PM
Cleveland: The clingy, desperate, yet incredibly loyal girlfriend who won't stop calling you because she doesn't think she can get anyone better.

Miami: The super sexy Latin supermodel with huge breasts who won't mean as much to you emotionally but is way too hot to turn down.

Gotta go with Miami :)

JordansBulls
07-09-2010, 03:17 PM
article about Shaq going west.



link (http://www.nytimes.com/1996/07/19/sports/sports-of-the-times-shaq-is-now-california-dreamin.html)

Shaq made it clear he was going there to win, and now LeBron is doing the same. Is it because LeBron was so successful by himself in Cleveland? Is there really a difference between these two situations?

Because the internet was not nearly as available as it is now and we didn't have message boards.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-09-2010, 03:18 PM
They couldn't have offered Wally. He had already expired last summer.

I'm talking about in the 2009 deadline.

They could have offered Wally. Then in that offseason, they got Shaq instead.

R_O_W_E
07-09-2010, 03:19 PM
Jordan had great players though. He was lucky that they had Pippen beside Jordan.
Pippen wasn't nearly the factor he eventually became with the Bulls when Detroit was knocking them out.

LeBron has played with some very good players as well. They only become "great" when they win that championship though.


Lebron wasn't as lucky so he took matters into his own hands.

Now he wants to be Pippen. Its funny how things work out. :laugh2:

cmellofan15
07-09-2010, 03:19 PM
False.

As long as they had LeBron, that is the only pitch they need. They pulled off some very good deals to acquire some good talents that fit next to LeBron.

The problem is they should've done this early on in LeBron's career rather than his final 2 years in Cleveland. Once he signed that 3 year extension and the 2010 Talk started up it put Cleveland on notice to do whatever was possible to win. LeBron didn't trust Cleveland to consistently do it if he signed on for another 6 years.

those same guys that helped him out when he really needed it right? like Shaq and Jamison? yeah guys like Johnny Flynn and Jose Calderon are going to push Cleveland over the top. the only person who could have pushed them over is Bosh and he wasn't going to play for Cleveland, he made that pretty clear.

NYtilIdie
07-09-2010, 03:20 PM
I realize how bad they were before LeBron. Secondly, without LeBron, Cleveland is still a solid team.

Mo was on the trading block. Delonte was on the trading block.

$14 Million would've been enough to sign CP3, if LeBron was still there. You see LeBron, Wade, & Bosh taking paycuts to play with each other. Why would CP3 take the biggest contract available and join a team like the T'Wolves? :laugh2:

They're playing in Miami a great,fun city which is the main reason they took pay cuts. A place that many people praise. Not Cleveland a city people call a "Mistake by the Lake".

CP3 won't take a paycut to play in a city like Cleveland. Like you said thats like him taking a Max in Minny. He will take the Max in LA before a paycut to play in Cleveland.

R_O_W_E
07-09-2010, 03:20 PM
I'm talking about in the 2009 deadline.

They could have offered Wally. Then in that offseason, they got Shaq instead.

Amare was injured at the trade deadline in 09'. That is why they couldn't do the deal because he missed the rest of the season.

hype707
07-09-2010, 03:21 PM
whos the dumbass that posted this thread Shaq didnt want to leave LA he got traded

Rivera
07-09-2010, 03:21 PM
Cleveland: The clingy, desperate, yet incredibly loyal girlfriend who won't stop calling you because she doesn't think she can get anyone better.

Miami: The super sexy Latin supermodel with huge breasts who won't mean as much to you emotionally but is way too hot to turn down.

Gotta go with Miami :)

x2 cause the latina supermodel prolly has an @$$ to match

Tony_Starks
07-09-2010, 03:21 PM
Shaq got a lot of hate, in fact he still gets hate in Orlando up to this day. Just like Lebron he had to do what he had to do for his own career and benefit. But guess what happened? Once he started winning he was the man again. Same thing with Lebron, winning is always the cure all.

R_O_W_E
07-09-2010, 03:22 PM
those same guys that helped him out when he really needed it right? like Shaq and Jamison? yeah guys like Johnny Flynn and Jose Calderon are going to push Cleveland over the top. the only person who could have pushed them over is Bosh and he wasn't going to play for Cleveland, he made that pretty clear.

Once again, we'll never know. I would've enjoyed to see what Cleveland could do this upcoming season with LeBron.

However a rebuilding effort was in sight in Cleveland. Their starters are getting old and nearing expiration of their contracts.

PrettyBoyJ
07-09-2010, 03:22 PM
when did it become a bad idea to want to win? nobody wants to have 120mill and countless mvps with no rings.

I'd Take that...

jer3miah
07-09-2010, 03:23 PM
It is all about Professionalism and Bitterness.

Shaq left Orlando because he wasn't gonna get publicity for his rap album and movies so he went to LA....and still got no publicity because he is no good at those.

Yes Orlando was pissed (me included), but people are greedy and that is that. Cavs owner needs to learn some discipline with his mouth, he definitely doesn't sound professional in his bad mouthin' Lebron, but more like a Mark Cuban attitude on steroids. lol

I will love playing Miami this year, Go Magic!!!

Lakers211221
07-09-2010, 03:23 PM
Everyone else on that team underachieved though. Lebron still did what he usually does.

Lebron shot below 31% in games 5 and 6!

cmellofan15
07-09-2010, 03:23 PM
whos the dumbass that posted this thread Shaq didnt want to leave LA he got traded

:laugh:

it's about Shaq leaving Orlando dumbass, and yes he wanted to get traded from LA so you're still wrong.

Hindy27
07-09-2010, 03:24 PM
Even if Wade and Bosh decided to go to Cleveland, he'd still get the hate. I would think Lebron rather let Wade and Bosh come to Cleveland than Lebron go to the Heat. It's just that Lebron going to Miami was more convenient.

Like I said, I don't like Lebron going to Miami but the man wants to win. It just so happens it was more convient that he go to Miami that Wade or Bosh to come to Cleveland.
If Wade and Bosh went to Cleveland, then I think Wade would be copping most of the hate. Bosh is nothing, he is just along for the ride, so it's mostly about Wade and LBJ.

LBJ has gone running to Wade to help him, the hate would be on Wade though if he went running to LBJ. It may be slightly less just but not by much.

I also think a lot of the hate is mainly due to Miami doing what normally wouldn't be done in sports with a salary cap. The cap is there to stop rich teams stockpiling talent and pretty much to even out competition. What Miami have done may not be illegal but it makes a mockery of the cap and it's intended purposes, and is just downright greedy.

They could've put together a championship team by adding LBJ with Wade, or even Bosh with Wade would have been a good start for building a contender. They went and got all 3 though, I think the greedy nature of that action is driving a lot of the hate.

Pistol_Pete
07-09-2010, 03:24 PM
There are plenty of reasons Shaq didn't get treated the way LeBron is being treated now:

-He played in Orlando for about half the time LeBron played in Cleveland
-Orlando wasn't his hometown
-He wasn't going to a star stacked team, he actually left a better team for a worse team
-He didn't hold a TV special to announce where he was going
-He didn't (allegedly) collaborate with guys and then draw out the process
-There were better players still playing in the NBA at the time, like Jordan
-The Magic still had a great player in Penny Hardaway, at least at the time
-There wasn't the level of media involvement as there is today

Those are the reason. Whether think it's right or not that Shaq didn't get scrutinized more is not the point. You asked WHY he did't, and above are the reasons why.

Shaq did however leave a talented winning team to join a worse team specifically for the money and fame. That's the truth and I don't think anyone's is saying it's not.

R_O_W_E
07-09-2010, 03:25 PM
If Wade and Bosh went to Cleveland, then I think Wade would be copping most of the hate. Bosh is nothing, he is just along for the ride, so it's mostly about Wade and LBJ.

LBJ has gone running to Wade to help him, the hate would be on Wade though if he went running to LBJ. It may be slightly less just but not by much.

I also think a lot of the hate is mainly due to Miami doing what normally wouldn't be done in sports with a salary cap. The cap is there to stop rich teams stockpiling talent and pretty much to even out competition. What Miami have done may not be illegal but it makes a mockery of the cap and it's intended purposes, and is just downright greedy.

They could've put together a championship team by adding LBJ with Wade, or even Bosh with Wade would have been a good start for building a contender. They went and got all 3 though, I think the greedy nature of that action is driving a lot of the hate.

Bingo. The Heat right now have become the Yankees of the NBA

I think if Miami doesn't win a Championship or reach the ECF this season, people will start to feel that they aren't as dominant as they look on paper.

Pistol_Pete
07-09-2010, 03:26 PM
You see LeBron, Wade, & Bosh taking paycuts to play with each other.

FYI the reported paycuts they are taking are about $800k each. pretty much chump change to these guys. Also there is no income tax in Florida, so while they get a LITTLE less in salary, they'll be taking home more.

BOSTON617
07-09-2010, 03:27 PM
another reason is shaq wasnt considered the greatest player in the game when he was a free agent and wasnt a giant ***** when it came to signing to a team... he didnt act liek a little girl and i expect shaq to be the biggest media whore out of any nba player but lebron def toook it to a whole nother level... lost all respect for lebron "queen" james

cmellofan15
07-09-2010, 03:29 PM
another reason is shaq wasnt considered the greatest player in the game when he was a free agent and wasnt a giant ***** when it came to signing to a team... he didnt act liek a little girl and i expect shaq to be the biggest media whore out of any nba player but lebron def toook it to a whole nother level... lost all respect for lebron "queen" james

you're a Boston fan, you shouldn't respect him in the first place.

Sandman
07-09-2010, 03:34 PM
There are plenty of reasons Shaq didn't get treated the way LeBron is being treated now:

-He played in Orlando for about half the time LeBron played in Cleveland
-Orlando wasn't his hometown
-He wasn't going to a star stacked team, he actually left a better team for a worse team
-He didn't hold a TV special to announce where he was going
-He didn't (allegedly) collaborate with guys and then draw out the process
-There were better players still playing in the NBA at the time, like Jordan
-The Magic still had a great player in Penny Hardaway, at least at the time
-There wasn't the level of media involvement as there is today

Those are the reason. Whether think it's right or not that Shaq didn't get scrutinized more is not the point. You asked WHY he did't, and above are the reasons why.

Shaq did however leave a talented winning team to join a worse team specifically for the money and fame. That's the truth and I don't think anyone's is saying it's not.

You're leaving out the biggest reason. Orlando started with a lowball 4/54 (13.5 per); LA offered him 7/121 (17m per). I dont mean to say Shaq left for the money, but that was a JOKE offer from Orlando.

Tony_Starks
07-09-2010, 03:34 PM
There are plenty of reasons Shaq didn't get treated the way LeBron is being treated now:

-He played in Orlando for about half the time LeBron played in Cleveland
-Orlando wasn't his hometown
-He wasn't going to a star stacked team, he actually left a better team for a worse team
-He didn't hold a TV special to announce where he was going
-He didn't (allegedly) collaborate with guys and then draw out the process
-There were better players still playing in the NBA at the time, like Jordan
-The Magic still had a great player in Penny Hardaway, at least at the time
-There wasn't the level of media involvement as there is today

Those are the reason. Whether think it's right or not that Shaq didn't get scrutinized more is not the point. You asked WHY he did't, and above are the reasons why.

Shaq did however leave a talented winning team to join a worse team specifically for the money and fame. That's the truth and I don't think anyone's is saying it's not.


While I agree with you don't forget that the main reason Shaq left was a well documented feud he had with Penny over who was more popular in Orlando as far as endorcements, fan popularity and all that. Penny was becoming a legit superstar and Shaq, by all accounts, was extremely jealous. Remember he even blew Penny off at allstar games for a few years afterwards behind this. Then of course later this same issue came up with Kobe.


I said that to say that people are going to hate all over Lebron for his decision because of the spectacle he created but what Shaq did was waaaaaaaay worse and downright childish IMO.

clehmun
07-09-2010, 03:34 PM
ESPN Special. That was the last straw for me.

bbblack40
07-09-2010, 03:36 PM
Maybe because Shaq didn't plan a primetime television special to showcase himself and his "decision."

with that primetime special lebron raised 2.5million dollars for charity so yea that was real selfish:rolleyes: look its a bizness do you think when lebron turned 38yrs old and a younger superstar was out there and the cavs needed to waive lebron to get that younger star, the cavs wouldnt cut lebron? yea right:)