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View Full Version : Has LBJ tarnished his career and legacy for good?



CowboysKB24
07-09-2010, 11:21 AM
He is now never going to win a championship as the top dog and leader of a team. He will also have tainted championships because he was playing with not 1, but 2 elite players. Kobe was criticized for his entire career, until he won a ring "by himself". Now he has done that two times. It shows that he is truly one of the greatest basketball players ever. Now LBJ deserves the same criticism as Kobe did.

Obviously, LBJ is just frustrated. He won back to back MVPs and back to back regular season champions. He hasn't been able to get them out of the East. Reggie Miller says "Three to four rings in Miami is equivalent to one championship in Cleveland". LBJ is blaming it on the organization by leaving them. He should understand he was the major reason for their losses due to poor poor play in the playoffs.


Thoughts?

RenegadeRiot36
07-09-2010, 11:23 AM
"LeDouchebag"

RulerSlick
07-09-2010, 11:24 AM
Kobe is playing with Gasol, Odom , Artest and Bynum. That's f'ing stacked. Gasol lead teams to 50 wins even beefore Kobe did in the West, that's how good gasol is. If lebron had a Gasol, he would have a title by now but instead, his gasol was Mo Williams:o

jrm2054
07-09-2010, 11:24 AM
i feel this means he will never be mentioned with kobe and jordan even if he wins 10 rings bc it is wades team and he is now wades sidekick

Hawkeye15
07-09-2010, 11:25 AM
nope. If history has shown us anything, its that sports fans have very short term memories.

The Raven
07-09-2010, 11:26 AM
Of course he has. After what occured, he shouldnt even be mentioned with MJ or Kobe

Hawkeye15
07-09-2010, 11:27 AM
I mean, this is one example. Kobe forced a trade before he played a minute. He won 3 rings before he had hair on his nuts. He helped move Shaq out of town. He crapped on his young center when his management wouldn't ship him for Kidd. He demanded a trade when the Lakers had 3 subpar seasons, and then realized his no trade clause saved him from disaster. He was involved in a rape case. He totally choked in the 2008 finals. But when he won last year, and then this year, all was forgiven.
I am only pointing out that fans are only concerned with what have you done for me lately for the most part.

ATX
07-09-2010, 11:28 AM
He is now never going to win a championship as the top dog and leader of a team. He will also have tainted championships because he was playing with not 1, but 2 elite players. Kobe was criticized for his entire career, until he won a ring "by himself". Now he has done that two times. It shows that he is truly one of the greatest basketball players ever. Now LBJ deserves the same criticism as Kobe did.


Thoughts?

:facepalm:

You think Kobe won these past championships alone?? Gasol/Odom/Artest/Fisher/Bynum.

And no LBJ hasn't tarnished his legacy. He would have no legacy wasting his career in Cleveland with no rings to show. If anything his legacy is just beginning. He will win multiple ships in Miami. Who cares if he's not the top dog? It's not all about me. It's about team and winning...:facepalm:

CowboysKB24
07-09-2010, 11:29 AM
Kobe is playing with Gasol, Odom , Artest and Bynum. That's f'ing stacked. Gasol lead teams to 50 wins even beefore Kobe did in the West, that's how good gasol is. If lebron had a Gasol, he would have a title by now but instead, his gasol was Mo Williams:o

This team was built, not made over night. Kobe is a big reason for those guys development. Kobe does not have a two top five guys on his team. It is completely different. Gasol is arguable a top 10 player.

LBJ, Wade, Bosh, Kobe, Melo, Durant, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Amare, Dwight... that is off my head.

Odom and Artest are role players at best. They were very very inconsistent in the playoffs. Odom Artest and Gasol = one of the new big three. Fisher had more of an impact than those guys. It was more of a two man show Kobe and Gasol IMO. Bynum was not effective at all. Don't take credit from Kobe... please. You can't compare any team to this new Heat team. No team has ever had that make up. Kobe stuck with his team thick and thin, he did attempt to leave, but in the end he didn't... he stayed and his attempt to leave made his organization do something about what Kobe wanted.

jmb8311
07-09-2010, 11:29 AM
Anybody ever stop to think that maybe Lebron, unlike the rest of the sports world, doesn't feel it's necessary to live up to Jordan's standard? People love going to that comparison, but from the beginning of his career Lebron has said that he's always envisioned himself more as a Magic Johnson type player who can score but wants to distribute the ball and make his team better. He's in a prime position to adjust his play that way now. How quick people forget that Jordan had a top 50 all time player in Pippen, and one of the premier lock down defenders and rebounders in the league in Rodman by his side. Enough with the comparisons. Let Lebron be the first Lebron and make his own legacy.

CowboysKB24
07-09-2010, 11:30 AM
This is not a LBJ and Kobe comparison thread because there is no comparison. Kobe is and always will be better than LBJ. LBJ will never overthrow Kobe. That is now fact.

magichatnumber9
07-09-2010, 11:31 AM
nope. If history has shown us anything, its that sports fans have very short term memories.
yup

ccugrad1
07-09-2010, 11:31 AM
Here is the problem when you mentioned "Tarnished Legacies and what not:" Players today I don't think really care about legacies and to an extent championships. Did A-Rod care about championships when he signed for 10 years, 252 million with the Rangers?

Does Joe Johnson honestly believe he is going to win a title with the Hawks? But he has a 119 million reasons over the next 6 years to be happy.

If people in professional sports truly cared about winning championships, why would anyone sign in the NFL with the Rams, Buccaneers, Lions, and teams like that? They aren't winning anything anytime soon.

If people in professional sports truly cared about winning championships, why would anyone sign in MLB with the Orioles, Royals, Pirates and teams like that? They aren't winning anything anytime soon.

If people in professional sports truly cared about winning championships, why would anyone sign in the NBA with the Nets, T-Wolves, the Kings, and teams like that? They aren't winning anything anytime soon.

If people in professional sports truly cared about winning championships, why would anyone sign in the NHL with the Oilers, Panthers, Islanders, and teams like that? They aren't winning anything anytime soon.

But if those teams come offering big dollars, tell me you aren't at least going to listen and possibly sign there?

Kakaroach
07-09-2010, 11:32 AM
LeBron is most likely going to win rings with this new team, but he'll never be mentioned with Jordan, Kobe, Magic, and Bird.

whitemamba33
07-09-2010, 11:34 AM
The last few years the champions have been Lakers, who have Bynum, Gasol, Bryant, Artest, and Odom - any of which could be allstars in any given year...and Boston, who has Allen, Garnett, Pierce, and Rondo. I really don't see why those championships wouldn't be tarnished, but Miami's would be.

Regardless, i'm sure LeBron couldn't care less. He just wants to win.

Atownballa5
07-09-2010, 11:38 AM
Le*****

CowboysKB24
07-09-2010, 11:38 AM
The last few years the champions have been Lakers, who have Bynum, Gasol, Bryant, Artest, and Odom - any of which could be allstars in any given year...and Boston, who has Allen, Garnett, Pierce, and Rondo. I really don't see why those championships wouldn't be tarnished, but Miami's would be.

Regardless, i'm sure LeBron couldn't care less. He just wants to win.

Artest an all-star? Not any more. Those days are long long gone. He is a role player now.


Odom is nowhere near an All-star. He is 18-12 when he is a super star of the team... please stop.

Bynum hasn't played a full season yet... where is the all-star? He showed his true self this past season... he did nothing in the playoffs. He just compliments the team with his presence down low.

Gasol is the only legitimate player on the Lakers squad and all-star.

Atownballa5
07-09-2010, 11:38 AM
LeB**ch

Young$avage
07-09-2010, 11:38 AM
Kobe is playing with Gasol, Odom , Artest and Bynum. That's f'ing stacked. Gasol lead teams to 50 wins even beefore Kobe did in the West, that's how good gasol is. If lebron had a Gasol, he would have a title by now but instead, his gasol was Mo Williams:o

1. No, that is NOT stacked.

2. Gasol led an 8th seeded 50-win team in the West.

3. I don't think LeBron would have played better with Gasol. Their games don't mesh. LeBron is pure brute force while Kobe's is read and react.

td0tsfinest
07-09-2010, 11:40 AM
CHarles Barkley mentioned that you can't put Lebron in the same breadth as Kobe and Jordan. Kobe just started getting his dues after he carried his team to two championships with out shaq.

Lebron maybe the best player in the league but he took the easy way out to win a championship.

Thisisouryear!!
07-09-2010, 11:42 AM
Lebron is a sellout and has tarnished his reputation forever, if you cant see that then your just blind.

RulerSlick
07-09-2010, 11:43 AM
Artest an all-star? Not any more. Those days are long long gone. He is a role player now.


Odom is nowhere near an All-star. He is 18-12 when he is a super star of the team... please stop.

Bynum hasn't played a full season yet... where is the all-star? He showed his true self this past season... he did nothing in the playoffs. He just compliments the team with his presence down low.

Gasol is the only legitimate player on the Lakers squad and all-star.

odom was/is better than anybody at this present time that Lebron played with on the cavs

Thisisouryear!!
07-09-2010, 11:44 AM
put up a poll guarntee the results come back that YES he has tarnished his reputation and legacy forever.

bulldog312
07-09-2010, 11:45 AM
That depends on what you mean. If you mean his legacy as a top 5 player, then yes, definitely. If you mean as simply a great player who will probably win several rings, then hell no.

Da Knicks
07-09-2010, 11:46 AM
Lebron will win rings and be regarded as the best ever what can we do?

Mochalman
07-09-2010, 11:47 AM
what is there to be tarnished? he was on a team with a below average supporting cast and knew it wouldn't change so he went and did something about it.

Hugbees
07-09-2010, 11:47 AM
Duh, Kobe will always be known as the player of this time period. Not Lebron.. Even Wade will always have the +1 over him. Good job dude, way to look like a punk and destroy your chance at greatness.

deebee3330
07-09-2010, 11:47 AM
Kobe is playing with Gasol, Odom , Artest and Bynum. That's f'ing stacked. Gasol lead teams to 50 wins even beefore Kobe did in the West, that's how good gasol is. If lebron had a Gasol, he would have a title by now but instead, his gasol was Mo Williams:o

Bynum has been injured or ineffective all the last three time the lakers went to the finals.(He was not even on the court in crunch time and kobe had 15 boards bynum did nothing) Gasol has never won a playoff series (0-12) or been regarded as a top ten player in the league before coming to LA. Artest is a elite defender but not an elite player. Odom is clearly skilled but is always inconsitent.

Master Mind
07-09-2010, 11:48 AM
Bitterness has skewed people's view so no point in debating this subject...Nonetheless he's still regarded as the best player in the league, like him or not...

CowboysKB24
07-09-2010, 11:48 AM
odom was/is better than anybody at this present time that Lebron played with on the cavs

No... 9pts and 9rbs is equivalent to Anderson Verajo. Antawn Jamison and Mo Williams are better than Odom. That is a fact. Odom is not the player he used to be. He is so inconsistent.

drama1386
07-09-2010, 11:48 AM
personally, i really could care less about LBJ's so-called legacy. the man made a choice to take a lot less money to win a championship and I can't be mad at him or be a hater. every player in the NBA has one goal and that is to win a championship. lebron can't be compared to kobe because everyone knows kobe is the best player in the NBA.

so in my view, he'll win some rings with miami and he won't do it by himself but to me, it doesn't matter. nowadays, championships are RARELY won with one superstar "doing it by himself." take a look at the current history:
2009-2010: lakers (kobe, gasol, artest)
2008-2009: lakers (kobe & gasol)
2007-2008: celtics (pierce, garnett, allen)
2006-2007: spurs (duncan, parker, ginobli)
2005-2006: heat (wade & shaq)
2004-2005: spurs (duncan, parker, ginobli)
2003-2004: pistons (billups, hamilton, rasheed & ben wallace)

Da Knicks
07-09-2010, 11:48 AM
to all saying kobe won by himself? wtf is Gasol, phil, odom, bynum, artest, fisher nothing?

bagwell368
07-09-2010, 11:49 AM
Legacy? He's got a lot of talent and a big ego. He made a choice. Deal with it.

Jaji
07-09-2010, 11:50 AM
He is now never going to win a championship as the top dog and leader of a team. He will also have tainted championships because he was playing with not 1, but 2 elite players. Kobe was criticized for his entire career, until he won a ring "by himself". Now he has done that two times. It shows that he is truly one of the greatest basketball players ever. Now LBJ deserves the same criticism as Kobe did.

Obviously, LBJ is just frustrated. He won back to back MVPs and back to back regular season champions. He hasn't been able to get them out of the East. Reggie Miller says "Three to four rings in Miami is equivalent to one championship in Cleveland". LBJ is blaming it on the organization by leaving them. He should understand he was the major reason for their losses due to poor poor play in the playoffs.


Thoughts?

I stopped reading at the part in bold. :facepalm:

RulerSlick
07-09-2010, 11:50 AM
Bynum has been injured or ineffective all the last three time the lakers went to the finals.(He was not even on the court in crunch time and kobe had 15 boards bynum did nothing) Gasol has never won a playoff series (0-12) or been regarded as a top ten player in the league before coming to LA. Artest is a elite defender but not an elite player. Odom is clearly skilled but is always inconsitent.

What did Kobe win in the time span after Shaq and before Gasol?

shep33
07-09-2010, 11:50 AM
:facepalm:

You think Kobe won these past championships alone?? Gasol/Odom/Artest/Fisher/Bynum.

And no LBJ hasn't tarnished his legacy. He would have no legacy wasting his career in Cleveland with no rings to show. If anything his legacy is just beginning. He will win multiple ships in Miami. Who cares if he's not the top dog? It's not all about me. It's about team and winning...:facepalm:



Lets face it... we make excuses for LBJ but not once did I read or hear his team was untalented or not good enough since the 2nd half of the season. As I recall they were the favorites by a high majority of sports analysts to win it all, and the faves in Vegas. So it only occurs that he doesn't have enough help when he loses. LBJ quit against the Celtics, and his team quit with them after watching their leader tank.

CowboysKB24
07-09-2010, 11:51 AM
Bitterness has skewed people's view so no point in debating this subject...Nonetheless he's still regarded as the best player in the league, like him or not...

We aren't discussing him being the best player in the league or not. LeBron is 1a and Wade is 1b.

We are discussing his legacy. No other NBA great has gone to level that LBJ has to win championships. Jordan didn't call up Scottie Pippen and Rodman and say lets play together. Jordan didn't call Magic and Kareem when he was 25 and says hey I can't win a ring, you guys want to set up out contracts in 2006 so that we can play together in 2010? No other great has stooped that low. They were man enough to except more of challenge.

deebee3330
07-09-2010, 11:52 AM
To answer the question LeBron's can forget about being the greatest player of all time. MJ had scottie and those guys, but they were brought to him. Kobe was with Shaq but got him traded to prove he could do it without them. Magic and Bird were both drafted by their respective team and had teams built around them. LeBron doesn't have the killer instinct that is needed to be mentioned as THE greatest of all time

CowboysKB24
07-09-2010, 11:53 AM
Lets face it... we make excuses for LBJ but not once did I read or hear his team was untalented or not good enough since the 2nd half of the season. As I recall they were the favorites by a high majority of sports analysts to win it all, and the faves in Vegas. So it only occurs that he doesn't have enough help when he loses. LBJ quit against the Celtics, and his team quit with them after watching their leader tank.

x2. LBJ pretty much has everything, but a true outside shot. He lacks the killer instinct and the ability to win when it matters most. He outplayed every playoff team during the regular season, but that was not the case during the playoffs. He needs Wade to take the clutch shots and to win during the playoffs. He needs Wade.

RulerSlick
07-09-2010, 11:53 AM
No... 9pts and 9rbs is equivalent to Anderson Verajo. Antawn Jamison and Mo Williams are better than Odom. That is a fact. Odom is not the player he used to be. He is so inconsistent.


Odom could easily put up 20 + 10 + 5+ games if he didn't sacrifice his stats. Just look up his number the past few seasons when the lakers would get the injury bug and Odom would step his role up. Go check his game logs.

nystandup
07-09-2010, 11:54 AM
he is a joke.

Jaji
07-09-2010, 11:54 AM
personally, i really could care less about LBJ's so-called legacy. the man made a choice to take a lot less money to win a championship and I can't be mad at him or be a hater. every player in the NBA has one goal and that is to win a championship. lebron can't be compared to kobe because everyone knows kobe is the best player in the NBA.

so in my view, he'll win some rings with miami and he won't do it by himself but to me, it doesn't matter. nowadays, championships are RARELY won with one superstar "doing it by himself." take a look at the current history:
2009-2010: lakers (kobe, gasol, artest)
2008-2009: lakers (kobe & gasol)
2007-2008: celtics (pierce, garnett, allen)
2006-2007: spurs (duncan, parker, ginobli)
2005-2006: heat (wade & shaq)
2004-2005: spurs (duncan, parker, ginobli)
2003-2004: pistons (billups, hamilton, rasheed & ben wallace)

Rarely? How about NEVER. Name me one guy who did it ALL by himself. The closest thing is LBJ carrying his garbage Cavs to Finals in 07. That was miraculous. I agree with your post but I'd just change that one word. Oh, and it's not just nowadays, it's always been like that.

JordansBulls
07-09-2010, 11:54 AM
Lebron isn't the guy that should be compared to Kobe anymore in the league, the guy that should be is Wade. It is Wade's team and Wade just like Kobe now has help. Not to mention Wade led his team to a title already.

Young$avage
07-09-2010, 11:55 AM
Whatever happened to "LeBron makes his teammates better" and Kobe is "a team killer"?

:whistle:

CowboysKB24
07-09-2010, 11:56 AM
I stopped reading at the part in bold. :facepalm:

Get real man... Kobe has a great team, but he doesn't have Wade and Bosh. He isn't a cop out. He is a true legend of the game, something LBJ will never be. He will be exactly what he is right now, a cop out. The guy who could never get it done alone, he had to call his friends to help him save what is left of his legacy, which isn't much.

Kobe got criticism all his career until he won it "alone".... LBJ will never do that. He will go down as Kobe before he won these past two titles, the guy who won because he fell into the lap of Wade and Bosh, not because of himself.

majestic
07-09-2010, 11:56 AM
Anybody ever stop to think that maybe Lebron, unlike the rest of the sports world, doesn't feel it's necessary to live up to Jordan's standard? People love going to that comparison, but from the beginning of his career Lebron has said that he's always envisioned himself more as a Magic Johnson type player who can score but wants to distribute the ball and make his team better. He's in a prime position to adjust his play that way now. How quick people forget that Jordan had a top 50 all time player in Pippen, and one of the premier lock down defenders and rebounders in the league in Rodman by his side. Enough with the comparisons. Let Lebron be the first Lebron and make his own legacy.

lol lebrons legacy is now ***** made.. queen james !!

Giantwarrior
07-09-2010, 11:56 AM
Dwane Wade will always have that one extra Championship then Prince James.

koLohe2133
07-09-2010, 11:57 AM
regardless if leb*tch wants to compare himself to kobe or jordan, everyone is gonna do it for him.

mj NEVER left chicago when he couldnt get a title those first 6-7 years of his career to go play with chuck (his best buddy in the league)....kobe NEVER left the lakers to play with iverson/tmac/kg/etc.

Lebron cannot possibly consider himself a "king" now. he is not the king of ohio and definitely not the king of the nba....how can he possibly be when he went and left his throne to be part of the royal court in miami? where dwade is king?

his legacy is definitely tarnished....he was one or two pieces away in cleveland....n he left to start from scratch, taking the easy way out, and joining half the olympic team in south beach...

u become the best by playing AGAINST THE BEST....not by giving up and joining them.

CowboysKB24
07-09-2010, 11:57 AM
Rarely? How about NEVER. Name me one guy who did it ALL by himself. The closest thing is LBJ carrying his garbage Cavs to Finals in 07. That was miraculous. I agree with your post but I'd just change that one word. Oh, and it's not just nowadays, it's always been like that.

None of those three guys mentioned even compare to Wade, LBJ, and Bosh. None. So you are wrong.

You are a Heat fan, you head is so big right now it is stupid.

CowboysKB24
07-09-2010, 11:58 AM
regardless if leb*tch wants to compare himself to kobe or jordan, everyone is gonna do it for him.

mj NEVER left chicago when he couldnt get a title those first 6-7 years of his career to go play with chuck (his best buddy in the league)....kobe NEVER left the lakers to play with iverson/tmac/kg/etc.

Lebron cannot possibly consider himself a "king" now. he is not the king of ohio and definitely not the king of the nba....how can he possibly be when he went and left his throne to be part of the royal court in miami? where dwade is king?

his legacy is definitely tarnished....he was one or two pieces away in cleveland....n he left to start from scratch, taking the easy way out, and joining half the olympic team in south beach...

u become the best by playing AGAINST THE BEST....not by giving up and joining them.

x2.

deebee3330
07-09-2010, 11:58 AM
What did Kobe win in the time span after Shaq and before Gasol?

He waited to get a better team built around him. He always lobbied for bynum to be traded he did not bolt to go play with other stars. Gasol is not better than wade. If you say kobe never won with those guys you say the same about MJ. He never won without scottie and when he retired they still made the playoffs. Shaq never won without a dominant guard.

Jaji
07-09-2010, 11:59 AM
We aren't discussing him being the best player in the league or not. LeBron is 1a and Wade is 1b.

We are discussing his legacy. No other NBA great has gone to level that LBJ has to win championships. Jordan didn't call up Scottie Pippen and Rodman and say lets play together. Jordan didn't call Magic and Kareem when he was 25 and says hey I can't win a ring, you guys want to set up out contracts in 2006 so that we can play together in 2010? No other great has stooped that low. They were man enough to except more of challenge.

What difference does it make how they got together? Bottom line is no one can do it alone. You're faulting him for surrounding himself with championship talent? If that's the case, Kobe is a b!tch for not voiding the Gasol trade or demanding Artest sign elsewhere. Your logic is all screwed up.

Young$avage
07-09-2010, 11:59 AM
Whatever happened to "LeBron makes his teammates better" and Kobe is "a team killer"?

:whistle:

This is in relation to LeBron having no supporting cast, despite the antics by many people saying the Cavs had the deepest bench earlier on in the season.

beerman28
07-09-2010, 12:00 PM
LeBron is most likely going to win rings with this new team, but he'll never be mentioned with Jordan, Kobe, Magic, and Bird.

^ exactly...

CowboysKB24
07-09-2010, 12:01 PM
What difference does it make how they got together? Bottom line is no one can do it alone. You're faulting him for surrounding himself with championship talent? If that's the case, Kobe is a b!tch for not voiding the Gasol trade or demanding Artest sign elsewhere. Your logic is all screwed up.

Gasol is not on the level of Wade or Bosh, not nearly.. please you are a child right now. Grow up.


Real stars want to play against the competition and beat them. To be the best you have to beat the best, not play with the best. Get real man. His legacy is nothing now. His career is going to be crap.

Don't you see you are the only guy in here defending him. He isn't what you think he is. Deal with it. His legacy and career is tranished. He will be known as the guy who couldn't get it done alone and had to get the other top guys to win a ring.

netsgiantsyanks
07-09-2010, 12:01 PM
Bitterness has skewed people's view so no point in debating this subject...Nonetheless he's still regarded as the best player in the league, like him or not...

shut up man......the last person i would want to look on this situation and comment on it is a miami heat fan....fact of the matter is he shitted on his hometown majorly by going on national tv hes a media whore end of story

deebee3330
07-09-2010, 12:01 PM
What difference does it make how they got together? Bottom line is no one can do it alone. You're faulting him for surrounding himself with championship talent? If that's the case, Kobe is a b!tch for not voiding the Gasol trade or demanding Artest sign elsewhere. Your logic is all screwed up.

How can kobe void a trade or a signing? He is not the Dr. Buss

koLohe2133
07-09-2010, 12:01 PM
lol lebrons legacy is now ***** made.. queen james !!

calling him a queen is disrespectful to any female monarch in the history of the human race....


princess lebron? maybe but that still means he is entitled to something...

court jester james- well since he is a big ********* joke, this fits.:facepalm:

Swashcuff
07-09-2010, 12:02 PM
His legacy has just begun

krest213
07-09-2010, 12:02 PM
his career just getting started
it got tarnish in Ohio
and no South beach gonna bring it back to its original color

Young$avage
07-09-2010, 12:03 PM
Gasol is not on the level of Wade or Bosh, not nearly.. please you are a child right now. Grow up.


Real stars want to play against the competition and beat them. To be the best you have to beat the best, not play with the best. Get real man. His legacy is nothing now. His career is going to be crap.

Don't you see you are the only guy in here defending him. He isn't what you think he is. Deal with it. His legacy and career is tranished. He will be known as the guy who couldn't get it done alone and had to get the other top guys to win a ring.

:clap: Jordan and Kobe would agree.

Swashcuff
07-09-2010, 12:03 PM
LeBron is most likely going to win rings with this new team, but he'll never be mentioned with Jordan, Kobe, Magic, and Bird.

IF and BIG IF hes puts on masterful playoff performances and leads his the Heat to multiple championships he'd surely being mention with all the greats.

8kobe24
07-09-2010, 12:04 PM
What difference does it make how they got together? Bottom line is no one can do it alone. You're faulting him for surrounding himself with championship talent? If that's the case, Kobe is a b!tch for not voiding the Gasol trade or demanding Artest sign elsewhere. Your logic is all screwed up.

All i can say is your sig is a VERY bold prediction. Calling for a 3 peat already and haven't even won the first one yet.:facepalm:

Swashcuff
07-09-2010, 12:04 PM
Bitterness has skewed people's view so no point in debating this subject...Nonetheless he's still regarded as the best player in the league, like him or not...

well said bruh

Kobe2324
07-09-2010, 12:05 PM
I say that it does, and even with the big 3, I still think The Lakers are way better especially if they add another player or 2 to strengthen the bench. What they have done is used up the entire cap on 3 players and now have to fill it with d league players other than mike miller of course...just not gonna be enough to win. And his legacy is tarnished cause he is doing it on Wade's team where he actually won a championship himself. If he really wanted to win he would have went to the bulls. Oh well this only makes Kobe's chance of winning more mvp's much higher.

CowboysKB24
07-09-2010, 12:06 PM
:clap: Jordan and Kobe would agree.

Thank you. I really don't know how any one except Heat fans can not agree with that. If I were LBJ I would never join Wade. If I was Wade I would never join LBJ. Both of them have just went so low. It disappoints me. It makes the league so less competitive. It is going to the LBJ Wade Bosh show for the next seven years.

Young$avage
07-09-2010, 12:09 PM
Thank you. I really don't know how any one except Heat fans can not agree with that. If I were LBJ I would never join Wade. If I was Wade I would never join LBJ. Both of them have just went so low. It disappoints me. It makes the league so less competitive. It is going to the LBJ Wade Bosh show for the next seven years.

Exactly. I can't fathom MJ joining the likes of another NBA Superstar. He's too damn competitive to do that. And the only reason why Kobe demanded a trade years ago was because the Lakers did NOTHING to help him until the Pau trade. Cleveland has been making moves every year and LeBron has not capitalized on it. The Lakers have been in the Finals EVERY YEAR since the Pau deal.

hugepatsfan
07-09-2010, 12:09 PM
People should respect this move. He is taking less money and sacrificing his individual game for the sake of championships. When other people do this, we applaud it. I respect each of the, for doing this.

But the reason he sacrifices personal glory in this move is that he will never be compared to the greats now. What makes this a respectable move also kills his legacy.

uwish1127
07-09-2010, 12:10 PM
He really went from the most liked to the most hated

BullsFTW
07-09-2010, 12:11 PM
MJ & Kobe are Men....They don't join players, players join them....LeBron will never be put in the same category as MJ & Kobe....

Like what Sinatra said, "I did it My Way."

AIMelo=KillaDUO
07-09-2010, 12:13 PM
Get real man... Kobe has a great team, but he doesn't have Wade and Bosh. He isn't a cop out. He is a true legend of the game, something LBJ will never be. He will be exactly what he is right now, a cop out. The guy who could never get it done alone, he had to call his friends to help him save what is left of his legacy, which isn't much.

Kobe got criticism all his career until he won it "alone".... LBJ will never do that. He will go down as Kobe before he won these past two titles, the guy who won because he fell into the lap of Wade and Bosh, not because of himself.

damn man u really need to hop off Kobe's dik

Hawkeye15
07-09-2010, 12:13 PM
Lebron isn't the guy that should be compared to Kobe anymore in the league, the guy that should be is Wade. It is Wade's team and Wade just like Kobe now has help. Not to mention Wade led his team to a title already.

um, I think we all need to see who has the better numbers and bigger role in the playoffs before we call it outright.
By your rational, if Wade joined LeBron in Cleveland, no matter what Wade is 2nd fiddle...?

hugepatsfan
07-09-2010, 12:13 PM
How much do you think hos TV show pissed other players off? I guarantee you KG and Kobe were angry out of their mind watching it. Those two guys (and others - maybe Dwight) probably want a shot at them so bad.

BullsFTW
07-09-2010, 12:13 PM
Thank you. I really don't know how any one except Heat fans can not agree with that. If I were LBJ I would never join Wade. If I was Wade I would never join LBJ. Both of them have just went so low. It disappoints me. It makes the league so less competitive. It is going to the LBJ Wade Bosh show for the next seven years.

Don't count out the Lakers just yet....Plus you have upcoming teams like the Bulls, Thunder, and Magics....

Master Mind
07-09-2010, 12:15 PM
We aren't discussing him being the best player in the league or not. LeBron is 1a and Wade is 1b.

We are discussing his legacy. No other NBA great has gone to level that LBJ has to win championships. Jordan didn't call up Scottie Pippen and Rodman and say lets play together. Jordan didn't call Magic and Kareem when he was 25 and says hey I can't win a ring, you guys want to set up out contracts in 2006 so that we can play together in 2010? No other great has stooped that low. They were man enough to except more of challenge.

True. But give credit to the front offices of the Bulls/Lakers/Celtics/Pistons for manufacturing these dynasties by putting the right pieces together...

On behalf of the Cavs front office though, piss poor job--

Mo Williams, Delonte West, Anderson Varejao, Anthony Parker, Antwan Jamison (pass prime), Shaq (way pass prime) etc. :pity:

None of them are remotely close to Pippen, Rodman, Kareem, Worthy, Mchale, Parrish, Dumars etc.

What baffles me as well is that they would trade for an old Antwan Jamison instead of a young Amare Stoudemire because they didn't want to get rid of J.J. Hickson wh was seldom used. Believe me, if Amare was already on the Cavs roster this Miami Empire would have never formed.

To debate this topic, people have to understand that this move has prolonged his career further seeing how he doesn't have to carry a talentless team anymore. And historically, Oscar Robertson will have company as far as triple doubles goes--Lebron is in perfect position to accomplish that on a nightly basis with his new team. To add to that, the rings will solidify his legacy--this will be something we've never seen before and that's history within its own rights...

JordansBulls
07-09-2010, 12:15 PM
um, I think we all need to see who has the better numbers and bigger role in the playoffs before we call it outright.
By your rational, if Wade joined LeBron in Cleveland, no matter what Wade is 2nd fiddle...?

Yes if Wade went to Cleveland he would be 2nd fiddle.

Just like if Magic went to Boston in the 80's he would be 2nd fiddle to Bird and if Bird went to LA in the 80's with Magic, Bird would be 2nd fiddle to Magic.

rabzouz 96
07-09-2010, 12:16 PM
MJ & Kobe are Men....They don't join players, players join them....LeBron will never be put in the same category as MJ & Kobe....

Like what Sinatra said, "I did it My Way."

thats why kobe demanded a trade...

people are ******** with their rules of winning the right way. in the end the trophy counts.

Master Mind
07-09-2010, 12:16 PM
MJ & Kobe are Men....They don't join players, players join them....LeBron will never be put in the same category as MJ & Kobe....

Like what Sinatra said, "I did it My Way."

And so did Lebron!

GSRaider
07-09-2010, 12:17 PM
Lebron will be the King once he avgs a triple double for an entire season...

hugepatsfan
07-09-2010, 12:18 PM
True. But give credit to the front offices of the Bulls/Lakers/Celtics/Pistons for manufacturing these dynasties by putting the right pieces together...

On behalf of the Cavs front office though, piss poor job--

Mo Williams, Delonte West, Anderson Varejao, Anthony Parker, Antwan Jamison (pass prime), Shaq (way pass prime) etc. :pity:

None of them are remotely close to Pippen, Rodman, Kareem, Worthy, Mchale, Parrish, Dumars etc.

What baffles me as well is that they would trade for an old Antwan Jamison instead of a young Amare Stoudemire because they didn't want to get rid of J.J. Hickson wh was seldom used. Believe me, if Amare was already on the Cavs roster this Miami Empire would have never formed.

To debate this topic, people have to understand that this move has prolonged his career further seeing how he doesn't have to carry a talentless team anymore. And historically, Oscar Robertson will have company as far as triple doubles goes--Lebron is in perfect position to accomplish that on a nightly basis with his new team. To add to that, the rings will solidify his legacy--this will be something we've never seen before and that's history within its own rights...

Boozer and Redd. Both would have been perfect sidekicks for LBJ. But Booz backed out of a verbal deal and Redd decided to stay in MIL. CLE knew they would lose their cap after extensions, so they signed Larry Hughes - yuck. That led to him being traded for Ben Wallace and then BW being dealt for Shaq. Booz and Redd have left them in an uphill climb for years.

koLohe2133
07-09-2010, 12:19 PM
People should respect this move. He is taking less money and sacrificing his individual game for the sake of championships. When other people do this, we applaud it. I respect each of the, for doing this.

But the reason he sacrifices personal glory in this move is that he will never be compared to the greats now. What makes this a respectable move also kills his legacy.

there is NO REASON TO RESPECT THIS DECISION....

u really believe his bs? "not about $ because i didnt take a max deal" HORSES***...

he is freaking LEBRON JAMES! he could EASILY make that extra $27 million getting an endorsement deal from speedo or bacardi since he is in south beach now....

he is the least competitive waste of GOD GIVEN TALENT IN THE HISTORY OF SPORTS AND POSSIBLY THE WORLD.

in the words of ray finkle's mom: "i hope he dies of gonorhea and rots in hell"

o hey! finkle played for miami too!

Hawkeye15
07-09-2010, 12:20 PM
Yes if Wade went to Cleveland he would be 2nd fiddle.

Just like if Magic went to Boston in the 80's he would be 2nd fiddle to Bird and if Bird went to LA in the 80's with Magic, Bird would be 2nd fiddle to Magic.

not really buying that. Whomever is the second best player is the second fiddle.

Young$avage
07-09-2010, 12:20 PM
Again whatever happened to:

"LEBRON MAKES HIS TEAMMATES BETTER"????????????

uptownfan
07-09-2010, 12:21 PM
I really think LeBron has lost his damn mind. I don't think he truly understands what it means to win a championship. It's one thing to win it pure bred and you are "the man", and it's another thing to run off to a couple other superstars under the circumstances that he did.

Besides Heat fans, any ring that LeBron might get will be tainted and will have an asterisk labeled next to each one in everybody's mind. He can no longer be mentioned with MJ, or it would just be a slap in the face to MJ's legacy.

LeBron really ****ed up.

Jaji
07-09-2010, 12:21 PM
All i can say is your sig is a VERY bold prediction. Calling for a 3 peat already and haven't even won the first one yet.:facepalm:

Uhh, 2012-2015 would make it a 4 peat. 2012, 2013, 2014, and 2015. I'll refrain from inserting a joke here.

You should feel good though because I have the Lakers winning it next year. It will take the Heat at least a year to add the remaining pieces and gel. But after that, it could get ugly.

Human FlameShld
07-09-2010, 12:22 PM
It would only be enhanced by winning a title or titles.

Lebron has already proven he is one of the greats of all time, in the past 7 years he has done things that no one else has done in a 7 year period. Lebron cannot win a championship without a supporting cast, not even Jordan could win without Pippen, or Kobe without Shaq or Pau and company.

Lebron's points will likely go down but his assists will likely go up. He may have less total numbers on a stat sheet but prove to be better. If you already prove your greatness, then you win titles your legacy cannot be hurt.

uptownfan
07-09-2010, 12:22 PM
And can people stop giving us the ******** about how he took less money to win rings? He signed a 90 million dollar contract right out of high school. How much does he need?

Gormans Mic
07-09-2010, 12:22 PM
The cavs owner is right that Lebron more or less quit on them multiple times.

Lets all just face what Lepippen came to grips with, he can't be the man, he has to Scottie....good for you Lepippen, go go on Wades coat tails.

blastmasta26
07-09-2010, 12:23 PM
I think this move prevents him from becoming an all-time great unless he:

-Completely dominates and is the best on the team by far (maybe average a triple double) and gets Finals MVP each time

or

-Does well enough to get Finals MVP a few times and win some titles with Miami, then goes somewhere else and wins a title or two with less help and still dominate.

Master Mind
07-09-2010, 12:23 PM
shut up man......the last person i would want to look on this situation and comment on it is a miami heat fan....fact of the matter is he shitted on his hometown majorly by going on national tv hes a media whore end of story

Did the wind blow up your skirt :eyebrow:

So if he went to NY or NJ (Brooklyn) he wouldn't have been considered a media whore?

Regardless of what team he chose he still made history yesterday turd. You never seen this before, appreciate it, hate it, it doesn't matter LBJ did what was best for him, not Cleveland...

Gormans Mic
07-09-2010, 12:23 PM
It would only be enhanced by winning a title or titles.

Lebron has already proven he is one of the greats of all time, in the past 7 years he has done things that no one else has done in a 7 year period. Lebron cannot win a championship without a supporting cast, not even Jordan could win without Pippen, or Kobe without Shaq or Pau and company.

Lebron's points will likely go down but his assists will likely go up. He may have less total numbers on a stat sheet but prove to be better. If you already prove your greatness, then you win titles your legacy cannot be hurt.

which could have happened in CLE over time...but then again maybe Lepippen knew he just couldnt be the man.

blams
07-09-2010, 12:24 PM
There's no question. He can never be compared to MJ or Kobe's career anymore. They earned it. LeBron went with his friends to a team that if they put anything halfway decent around thiem, they will win the NBA finals healthy.

Jaji
07-09-2010, 12:24 PM
Bitterness has skewed people's view so no point in debating this subject...Nonetheless he's still regarded as the best player in the league, like him or not...

Best post in ALL 137 LeBron James threads. :clap:

And I like the nickname too. I think that's a winner.

Master Mind
07-09-2010, 12:25 PM
Boozer and Redd. Both would have been perfect sidekicks for LBJ. But Booz backed out of a verbal deal and Redd decided to stay in MIL. CLE knew they would lose their cap after extensions, so they signed Larry Hughes - yuck. That led to him being traded for Ben Wallace and then BW being dealt for Shaq. Booz and Redd have left them in an uphill climb for years.

Aww man how did I forget about that :puke:

What a job by the Cleveland FO...

mp3
07-09-2010, 12:26 PM
everyone sticking up for lebron and saying his legacy is not tarnished just stop. you sound so stupid right now trying to defend him and saying his legacy is not ruined. There will never be a worthy kobe lebron argument ever again. There is no point to try and argue lebron is better than kobe. stop wasting you time so all people with basketball knowledge can stop reading your ridiculous post

Gormans Mic
07-09-2010, 12:26 PM
[QUOTE]Regardless of what team he chose he still made history yesterday turd. You never seen this before, appreciate it, hate it, it doesn't matter LBJ did what was best for him, not Cleveland...
__________________/QUOTE]

he made history? lol thats true....even being an epic douche bag on TV for an entire hour is making history. James just because one of the most hated players in sports in 1 hour......dude is a clown. I actually feel bad calling lepippen, what did scottie do?

Hopefully this is the last time a FA has a 1 hour special on ESPN......people are so f'n full of themselves in our current modern world...sorry if makes some of out there with some sense vomit.

koLohe2133
07-09-2010, 12:27 PM
It would only be enhanced by winning a title or titles.

Lebron has already proven he is one of the greats of all time, in the past 7 years he has done things that no one else has done in a 7 year period. Lebron cannot win a championship without a supporting cast, not even Jordan could win without Pippen, or Kobe without Shaq or Pau and company.

Lebron's points will likely go down but his assists will likely go up. He may have less total numbers on a stat sheet but prove to be better. If you already prove your greatness, then you win titles your legacy cannot be hurt.

enhance what? what has he done since he came into the league???

went to the finals one time, lost to the spurs.....iverson did more.

2-time mvp? well shoot, the world has never seen someone who has the body of karl malone and can pass like isiah....he should get the mvp!

lebron is the worst....he can claim its all about winning for him but we all know that he couldnt hack it being "THE MAN" so now he has to be #2

mjt20mik
07-09-2010, 12:28 PM
Best post in ALL 137 LeBron James threads. :clap:

And I like the nickname too. I think that's a winner.

Yeah I don't understand why everyone is so hurt. Did anyone seriously not see this happening?

Gormans Mic
07-09-2010, 12:28 PM
fact is, for most people he will never be in the same light as Kobe, MJ, Bird etc...

Have fun with Lepippen in south beach

Master Mind
07-09-2010, 12:28 PM
Best post in ALL 137 LeBron James threads. :clap:

And I like the nickname too. I think that's a winner.

Thanx...:hi5:

mjt20mik
07-09-2010, 12:31 PM
Thanx...:hi5:

Yeah that nickname is pretty swell.

Human FlameShld
07-09-2010, 12:32 PM
enhance what? what has he done since he came into the league???

went to the finals one time, lost to the spurs.....iverson did more.

2-time mvp? well shoot, the world has never seen someone who has the body of karl malone and can pass like isiah....he should get the mvp!

lebron is the worst....he can claim its all about winning for him but we all know that he couldnt hack it being "THE MAN" so now he has to be #2


Here is a little tip for you...when you say someone should get the mvp then call them the worst your argument kind of falls apart.

Young$avage
07-09-2010, 12:34 PM
Woo boy. I can't wait for the postseason... It's gonna be hella fun watching Miami get tossed.

mjt20mik
07-09-2010, 12:36 PM
Woo boy. I can't wait for the postseason... It's gonna be hella fun watching Miami get tossed.

Kobe vs Wade

Lebron vs Artest

Bosh vs Gasol


Should be for one helluva series.

Human FlameShld
07-09-2010, 12:37 PM
Woo boy. I can't wait for the postseason... It's gonna be hella fun watching Miami get tossed.


Glad you said this....we don't if it will work, although I think it will.


I may be in the minority here but I think this is good for basketball, these three guys together. With football, baseball, and hockey I am a fan of the league first and a Eagles, Phillies, and Flyers fan second but with basketball I am a lot more of a Sixers fan than a basketball fan and this gets me more interested and wanting to see how it works and how they match up to the Celtics, Lakers, and Magic. I'm sure I'm not the only one that will watch more basketball as a result of the new big 3, or course I'll want to see the Sixers destroy them but they make basketball more interesting to me.

koLohe2133
07-09-2010, 12:38 PM
Here is a little tip for you...when you say someone should get the mvp then call them the worst your argument kind of falls apart.

worst PERSON/teammate/hometown hero etc....

his skills make him a mvp. his attitude n personality make him the biggest punk

koLohe2133
07-09-2010, 12:40 PM
Glad you said this....we don't if it will work, although I think it will.


I may be in the minority here but I think this is good for basketball, these three guys together. With football, baseball, and hockey I am a fan of the league first and a Eagles, Phillies, and Flyers fan second but with basketball I am a lot more of a Sixers fan than a basketball fan and this gets me more interested and wanting to see how it works and how they match up to the Celtics, Lakers, and Magic. I'm sure I'm not the only one that will watch more basketball as a result of the new big 3, or course I'll want to see the Sixers destroy them but they make basketball more interesting to me.

so thats why ur for it.

shoooot if i was a sixer fan ya i would root for the rigged league we call the nba too....


what, u guys have had one good year in the past 20-25?

Randy West
07-09-2010, 12:41 PM
He hasn't tarnished anything, well some fans are just going to hate all over the guy because he left the Cavs ...........who wouldn't leave the Cavs if the opportunity presented itself?

As far as Miami being Wades team it is so just because he has been there longer. LBJ is going to be the best player on the Heat roster once signed and that is that.

liliverson819
07-09-2010, 12:42 PM
IDK how wanting to win tarnishes someones legacy?

nycsports2
07-09-2010, 12:43 PM
hell be a great player but never the greatest

Jaji
07-09-2010, 12:47 PM
IDK how wanting to win tarnishes someones legacy?

Simple. "He didn't sign with my team." :mad:

:laugh2:

Red Hot Rolllin
07-09-2010, 12:48 PM
Heat = New York Yankees...

I hope it backfires bigtime on Heat, my new favorite team to hate. But what do I care they are EAST coast :)

Leagacy will be determined in the END.. he is only 25

Team*Chicago
07-09-2010, 12:50 PM
The last few years the champions have been Lakers, who have Bynum, Gasol, Bryant, Artest, and Odom - any of which could be allstars in any given year...and Boston, who has Allen, Garnett, Pierce, and Rondo. I really don't see why those championships wouldn't be tarnished, but Miami's would be.

Regardless, i'm sure LeBron couldn't care less. He just wants to win.

LeBron, Dwayne and Chris knew they was going to team up together this hole time even before this 2010 FA marathon and they dicked around the NBA trying their best to get teams to dismantle their roster to clear up cap space for them so it can be easier to defeat them making it less challenging. The Miami's championships would be tarnished because of that.

Stevebud23
07-09-2010, 12:52 PM
Tarnished, Even if he wins 7 championships, he will still be looked down upon. Clearly shows he doesn't have the leadership and desire to be a True Great in the game. With this I don't even think he will eclipse into the top 10 NBA greats. He took the easy way out and it really is a shame. As a Bull fan, I don't even care that he didn't come to Chi, its really just shows he doesn't feel he has the ability to carry a team to the Ship. Jordan never recruited the greats to come join him, he just wanted to be better than them.

Mell413
07-09-2010, 12:53 PM
LeBron, Dwayne and Chris knew they was going to team up together this hole time even before this 2010 FA marathon and they dicked around the NBA trying their best to get teams to dismantle their roster to clear up cap space for them so it can be easier to defeat them making it less challenging. The Miami's championships would be tarnished because of that.

I don't think that's true. LeBron wanted Bosh in Cleveland, but Bosh didn't want to join him. Once Bosh joined Wade in Miami the writing was on the wall for him to leave Cleveland.

td0tsfinest
07-09-2010, 12:53 PM
Heat = New York Yankees...

I hope it backfires bigtime on Heat, my new favorite team to hate. But what do I care they are EAST coast :)

Leagacy will be determined in the END.. he is only 25

I'm hoping the Heat = Real Madrid. A team that is always stacked with the best players in world but fail to win it all.

uptownfan
07-09-2010, 12:53 PM
Simple. "He didn't sign with my team." :mad:

:laugh2:

No, it's the fact that he signed with Miami. All I was hoping going into last night was that he wouldn't sign there. I would have been thrilled if he went to Cleveland or NY

Young$avage
07-09-2010, 12:56 PM
Simple. "He didn't sign with my team." :mad:

:laugh2:

What if Wade didn't come back to Miami? Tell me your reaction and be honest.

Red Hot Rolllin
07-09-2010, 12:57 PM
I'm hoping the Heat = Real Madrid. A team that is always stacked with the best players in world but fail to win it all.

Real Madrid was more the point I was going for... I love it when owners try an buy Rings and it backfires.

Phil Jackson vs Pat Riley in the Finals? Thats oldschool

Red Hot Rolllin
07-09-2010, 12:58 PM
I don't think that's true. LeBron wanted Bosh in Cleveland, but Bosh didn't want to join him. Once Bosh joined Wade in Miami the writing was on the wall for him to leave Cleveland.

I feel for them... penthouse to the doghouse. Byron Scott is not a magician.

Wrench
07-09-2010, 01:01 PM
What if Wade didn't come back to Miami? Tell me your reaction and be honest.

I'd wish him the best and wear his Jersey all the time. He played 7 seasons with the team, he had every right to choose what he wanted to do.


Tell me this. If LeBron was not born in Akron, are they as pissed?

Young$avage
07-09-2010, 01:03 PM
I'd wish him the best and wear his Jersey all the time. He played 7 seasons with the team, he had every right to choose what he wanted to do.


Tell me this. If LeBron was not born in Akron, are they as pissed?

Probably not, but the truth of the matter is he is.

effen5
07-09-2010, 01:04 PM
No, it's the fact that he signed with Miami. All I was hoping going into last night was that he wouldn't sign there. I would have been thrilled if he went to Cleveland or NY

This, I personally thought he shoulda stayed in Cleveland.

Rapsjaysleafs
07-09-2010, 01:05 PM
This is not a LBJ and Kobe comparison thread because there is no comparison. Kobe is and always will be better than LBJ. LBJ will never overthrow Kobe. That is now fact.

You could be the most ignorant poster on this site. LBJ is 25 and has a lot of time left. You cannot say he will NEVER overthrow Kobe.
Give Lebron Kobe's team last year and he sweeps every series.

Wrench
07-09-2010, 01:11 PM
You could be the most ignorant poster on this site. LBJ is 25 and has a lot of time left. You cannot say he will NEVER overthrow Kobe.
Give Lebron Kobe's team last year and he sweeps every series.

Winner.


You can not win Rings with no help.

Kobe proved that when Shaq left, Wade proved it after we won and the team got old. KG and Allen proved it after they had to come together to get a ring.

LakersIn5
07-09-2010, 01:13 PM
Why the Lebron hate?
why are people hating on lebron? i hate lebron as hell before but after what he did he actually gained respect from me. before i thought what lebron only want was money and to pad his stats. but after his decision to go to miami he contradicted what i thought he was. he would have made more money with the cavs and knicks and would have better stats with the cavs,knicks,nets,bulls,clippers but instead he decide to choose the team which he thinks and i personally think where he has the biggest chance of winning a championship. people are saying that the heat wont be his team because its wade's team, that he wont be the man anymore, that he aint the king anymore because he went to wade's team and picked the team it would be easier for him to win the title. what he did was actually admirable he didnt care anymore if he was the man and if its his team, bottom line was he just wants to win the championship!

like what rick kamla said during the jazz-sixers summer league game lebron is a smart guy. because he didnt do what guys like garnett,malone and drexler did which was to spend all those years with their first teams because of loyalty and more money and it was just late in their careers that they realized that its time for them to look for the best chance of winning the championship. KG left minny for the celtics and he won a title, drexler went to houston and won, and malone went to LA though he didnt win a title it was still the best chance for him to win one. kamla said that lebron was smart to say to himself. i now have the money i have already showed my talent and its now time for me to choose the best situation for me to win the championship.

i wanted to lebron to go to new york because i want to see him pad his stats under mike dantoni and i would like to see him play under a run and gun offense. and i thought he was going to choose the knicks cuz of the money because that was what i thought he was a money and stat whoar but after he decision my prespective of him really changed for the better.

im actually rooting for the heat to make the finals but lose to my lakers... but i would also want the big 3 in miami to win a championship so maybe after the lakers 3peat

Crzycjunx76
07-09-2010, 01:13 PM
Did not like the 1 hour ESPN special.. thought it was tacky, but basketball is a business and only fools discount that. LeBron the brand is bigger than LeBron the player and we should be smart enough to understand that in ALL sports today that is simply the way things are. As for his career being tarnished... why would it be? He left a team? Free agency gives him the right to go where ever he pleases so I do not know why it would be a surprise that he chose to do so. That he did not go to New York or Chicago? Neither of those places is special and he wanted to play in Miami so what I do not see that as being a problem... in the end he gave the NBA a boost because of the extra TV coverage it will be getting in the next few seasons covering the trio... along with the games James has to play in Chicago, New York, and of course Cleveland.

I do not know what kind of person James really is but I do not know how anyone could look at his actions the other day and suddenly decide he is somehow a despicable human being ... it just smacks of whiny crybaby fans throwing a tantrum because they did not get the toy they wanted for Christmas(in July).

basketball3553
07-09-2010, 01:14 PM
He is now never going to win a championship as the top dog and leader of a team. He will also have tainted championships because he was playing with not 1, but 2 elite players. Kobe was criticized for his entire career, until he won a ring "by himself". Now he has done that two times. It shows that he is truly one of the greatest basketball players ever. Now LBJ deserves the same criticism as Kobe did.

Obviously, LBJ is just frustrated. He won back to back MVPs and back to back regular season champions. He hasn't been able to get them out of the East. Reggie Miller says "Three to four rings in Miami is equivalent to one championship in Cleveland". LBJ is blaming it on the organization by leaving them. He should understand he was the major reason for their losses due to poor poor play in the playoffs.


Thoughts?

Everybody has to realize that he did this move to win. I don't think he really care about being the top dog anymore. He just wants titles now.

Sportfan
07-09-2010, 01:14 PM
not really buying that. Whomever is the second best player is the second fiddle.
Not really. it's like A-rod when he came to NY. He was defiantly better than jeter, but he played a different position in honor of it being Jeter's team. It's wade's team

Swashcuff
07-09-2010, 01:16 PM
Best post in ALL 137 LeBron James threads. :clap:

And I like the nickname too. I think that's a winner.

x2

DeyAce
07-09-2010, 01:22 PM
LeBron is most likely going to win rings with this new team, but he'll never be mentioned with Jordan, Kobe, Magic, and Bird.

This

Angel2Maverick
07-09-2010, 01:24 PM
LeBron is not gonna be mentioned with the greats so yes his legacy is tarnished but It seems as though he doesnt care so good for him I guess.

He wants the rings, indeed he took the easy road but its not like you couldnt see coming. LeBron just doesnt like to lose.

Gup
07-09-2010, 01:25 PM
Everybody has to realize that he did this move to win. I don't think he really care about being the top dog anymore. He just wants titles now.

Itd be like Manning - Petterson - Moss - Johnson all signing on one team

Crosby - Ovechkin - Iginla

A Rod - Pujols - Utley and Hanley Ramirez

There are so many reasons why this is so wrong, on so many different levels. This just goes to show how bad the NBA is and has been.. Lock out anyone?

mike_noodles
07-09-2010, 01:34 PM
Yep, he sure has tarnished his image, I didn't like the guy before he pulled this crap. His legacy will never be that of MJ or KB. But did you see how upset he looked when Jim Gray showed him that his jersey was being burned in Cleveland, hahaha, looks good on you Queen.

GAWDtv
07-09-2010, 01:42 PM
He is now never going to win a championship as the top dog and leader of a team. He will also have tainted championships because he was playing with not 1, but 2 elite players. Kobe was criticized for his entire career, until he won a ring "by himself". Now he has done that two times. It shows that he is truly one of the greatest basketball players ever. Now LBJ deserves the same criticism as Kobe did.

Obviously, LBJ is just frustrated. He won back to back MVPs and back to back regular season champions. He hasn't been able to get them out of the East. Reggie Miller says "Three to four rings in Miami is equivalent to one championship in Cleveland". LBJ is blaming it on the organization by leaving them. He should understand he was the major reason for their losses due to poor poor play in the playoffs.


Thoughts?

What did Kobe do By himself? Who is Pau Gasol? Andrew Bynum?? Ron Artest??? Remember Derek Fisher Killing it when Kobe went MIA (Mising in Action not to South Beach relax Kobefiles!!)????

Kobe has all stars around him, when he didn't he got bounced by the Suns in the 1st round and cried he WANTED OUT OF LA LA Land, how soon we forget. They had to bring in the best big man in Europe and perenial all-star that already lead his Grizzlies to consecutive 50 win seasons and short playoff appearances as well. Ron Artest is the perenial defensive player of the year that lead his YaoLess Rockets to push the mighty Lakers to 7 games, and what did the Lakers go out and do, GET ARTEST. Boston Pulled off a big steal with a conspiracy of their own, Minesota xCeltic McHale pulled off to put the big 3 of KG/PP/Ray Allen together.

What seems to bother the haters is these young black men made an executive decision usually made by GMs. LA and BOS are the most decorated Teams and are always in the finals, no one has ever won it on their own as it takes teams, great teams with lot's of luck to win a ring in this league. Pat Riley will be the GM getting the accalades but Wade/Bosh/LBJ just gave themselves a chance to compete, equalled the playing field between them and ther Lakers and the Celtics for the next 7 rings.

P.S. Chicago is close with the Boozer aquisition, may be 1 All-Star swingman away (Melo at the deadline???)

xxseven72ducexx
07-09-2010, 01:42 PM
it's hard to say, in Cleveland yes, he's no longer welcome nor loved there anymore and will never be welcomed back again, he is now Public Enemy No. 1 there and will be booed everytime he comes there to play but outside of Ohio there are a lot of people who understand why he left and think his reasoning is justified...on one hand, the ones who don't hate him realize that he left a team, his hometown, that he couldn't win a championship with, a goal that every player in the nba has and bc the organization couldnt put the pieces around him to win...on the other, people think that he's a coward and a traitor for leaving his home town, a place where people loved him and cherished him, he was their Jesus Christ and to leave them high and dry (actually low and dry) with nothing to show for it, no players in return, no trade exceptions or draft picks and most importantly no championship they feel betrayed and hurt and dont think (actually know) that theyll ever be able to replace a player, who's more or less a global icon, of his talent and status...IMO I think it was a bad decision to go to Miami, I don't think leaving was a bad idea but to go to a team with Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh is a bad idea and it's also bad for the NBA, I also think he has every right to leave and I don't fault him for doing so bc winning is the ultimate goal and he could not do that in Cleveland and in his mind, he thinks he has a better shot at winning a ring in Miami...I'm from New York and was disappointed he didn't choose the Knicks but I can't even imagine what a Cavaliers fan or even just a person who lives in the Cleveland, Ohio area is feeling right now...the equivalent of that to me would be if Derek Jeter decided to leave the Yankees for the White Sox or the Angels, it's not a rival but it's still in the same league or in NBA terms conference, I'd be crushed bc Jeter's been here his whole career just like LeBron was in Cleveland and it would be so hard to replace not only his talent but his impact on the city just being who he is and for Cleveland it's even worse bc of how big LeBron was in Ohio, the United States and even globally...so even though I don't agree with him going to the Heat bc I think that team is going to be ridiculous to compete with, I don't hate him for leaving Cleveland

fresh prince
07-09-2010, 01:52 PM
regardless if leb*tch wants to compare himself to kobe or jordan, everyone is gonna do it for him.

mj NEVER left chicago when he couldnt get a title those first 6-7 years of his career to go play with chuck (his best buddy in the league)....kobe NEVER left the lakers to play with iverson/tmac/kg/etc.

Lebron cannot possibly consider himself a "king" now. he is not the king of ohio and definitely not the king of the nba....how can he possibly be when he went and left his throne to be part of the royal court in miami? where dwade is king?

his legacy is definitely tarnished....he was one or two pieces away in cleveland....n he left to start from scratch, taking the easy way out, and joining half the olympic team in south beach...

u become the best by playing AGAINST THE BEST....not by giving up and joining them.

This is right on

There is no denying that anyway you look at it Bron took the easy way out. The bUlls gave him IMO a better chance to win and on a team where he would still be considered the clear Alpha.

He will now (most likely) have to live with a James Worhty, Scottie Pippen, type legacy. Assuming they win Titles. Im not sold just yet.

Miami is D Wade's team. As long as Bron is cool with that who are we to judge?

koLohe2133
07-09-2010, 02:00 PM
This is right on

There is no denying that anyway you look at it Bron took the easy way out. The bUlls gave him IMO a better chance to win and on a team where he would still be considered the clear Alpha.

He will now (most likely) have to live with a James Worhty, Scottie Pippen, type legacy. Assuming they win Titles. Im not sold just yet.

Miami is D Wade's team. As long as Bron is cool with that who are we to judge?

im judging and i dont give a ***....

comparing him to worthy, pippen is a disgrace to them. they did not choose where they went....

i think he is more like john salley at this point.:facepalm:

iggypop123
07-09-2010, 02:00 PM
bron will never get close to being in the same universe as jordan, never come close to kobe, duncan, magic etc. robin's get credit but he wont be considered one of the best of all time or the GOAT. maybe its a different generation but shouldnt he want to beat these guys not join them? its almost like if bosh said to lebron jump, and lebron answered how high? i cant imagine dominique saying bird come to ATL and bird saying ok man.

shep33
07-09-2010, 02:05 PM
Yeah his legacy is definitely tarnished. Reports are they did have a free agent summit, and thats just pathetic... sports is about competition, and people get on Kobe on all the time, but Kobe could've left, people forget that yes he wanted to be traded, but he and Phil talked together he decided to stay before they got Pau. He didn't leave, and they didn't get Pau till the halfway point of the year. But the ulitmate example is MJ... the guy loses to the Pistons 3 years in a row, instead of leaving to play with better players, he took the challenge onto himself to make his teamates better... that's the strength of the greatest players, they don't quit, they don't run... Against the Celtics he quit, and his team quit after they saw him tank.

Baldyy
07-09-2010, 02:06 PM
As a Minnesota fan we faced something similar to this when Mauer's contract was coming up, sure he could have won championships with the Yankees or Red Sox, but he wanted to win one for the home town. Thank god not all are selfish *** holes like Lebron

Westbrook36
07-09-2010, 02:07 PM
Everyone acts like MJ did it by himself, he had Pippen (Who you could compare to Wade). Kobe had Shaq for a few of those championships, and now he has an incredible well rounded team.

Just because D-Wade has won a championship with the Heat, doesn't mean that he's always going to be the number one option with thirty seconds left in the game. It's going to be spread around, and let's not act like Pippen didn't have anything to do with MJ getting rings.

bedelato2
07-09-2010, 02:08 PM
As a LeBron fan I respect his decision. He did what was best for himself and his family. As far as his legacy goes how the **** are we even in a position to say that. Everyone is saying its DWADE's team. Hes going to be the man. In my honest opinion DWADE has nothing to loose from this. Lebron is the best player in the game today (arguably), and still is LeBron james. What if they all went to a different team? Still same scenerio? Since everyone think Dwade is going to lead I ask you this question....If this experiment team doesnt work (meaning no titles) who is everyone on hear going to bash? who is the media going to point the finger at?....Ill give you hit not the supposedly "Leader" of Miami. Dwade has nothing to loose and everything to gain from this. Lebron has everything to loose, and very little to gain. People are seriously bitter for this decision. Stop the threads and watch the 2010-2011 NBA season and see how this all plays out.

still1ballin
07-09-2010, 02:10 PM
Loving the hate on Benedict James

Catfish1314
07-09-2010, 02:10 PM
Sort of. He basically undid everything he ever did in Cleveland. I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't even get his number hung up there.

He also can't reach the same tier that Jordan, Magic, Bird, and Kobe have. They are great players with several rings but they lead their teams to getting those rings. LeBron won't be doing that in Miami.

bogdanrom
07-09-2010, 02:11 PM
This definitely hurts his legacy. How can you say it doesn't? He goes from one of the most beloved players in NBA history to one of the most hated. People realize it doesn't matter if Lebron wants to compare himself to MJ now or later. The matter of fact is that he has previously stated that he wants to be like Jordan, Magic, and Bird. Also his legacy is based on us, the media, the bloggers, the every day people, not what he thinks.
Also just realized this it turns out that they didn't really take less money because Florida has no tax laws (or at least limited ones).

Kakaroach
07-09-2010, 02:12 PM
Sort of. He basically undid everything he ever did in Cleveland. I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't even get his number hung up there.

He also can't reach the same tier that Jordan, Magic, Bird, and Kobe have. They are great players with several rings but they lead their teams to getting those rings. LeBron won't be doing that in Miami. Exactly what I've been saying, his legacy will never be as great as those.

gocubs2118
07-09-2010, 02:26 PM
I'm just glad we can stop hearing the MJ comparisons now :phew:

joeboow90
07-09-2010, 02:27 PM
Lebron has DEFINATELY tainted his legacy. you keep hearing about how all 3 of these players need to sacrifice and Lebron is the one who has to sacrifice the most. Any legendary player would not do that, straight up. Jordan wouldn't have joined someone else's team, Magic wouldn't have dont that, even Kobe wouldn't have done that. And, now Lebron will always be remembered for this decision and how he had to hop on D-Wade's back to get a championship.

D.Rose#1
07-09-2010, 02:28 PM
:facepalm:

You think Kobe won these past championships alone?? Gasol/Odom/Artest/Fisher/Bynum.

And no LBJ hasn't tarnished his legacy. He would have no legacy wasting his career in Cleveland with no rings to show. If anything his legacy is just beginning. He will win multiple ships in Miami. Who cares if he's not the top dog? It's not all about me. It's about team and winning...:facepalm:

Well if he wins itll be because of help from 2 other elite players. His legacy is ruined. He will be known as the player who needed 2 other superstars to help him win.

Westbrook36
07-09-2010, 02:29 PM
Exactly what I've been saying, his legacy will never be as great as those.

I'm not quite sure that LeBron won't be the man at all yet to be honest, he's still the best player on that team. Wade and LeBron will share being the man at times, which will hurt the legacy a bit. Then again Pippen was a Top 10 player back in the day with Jordan, 20/5/5 type player.

howie7long5
07-09-2010, 02:37 PM
lol i love that people are so stupid to think that because he swtiched teams he is a bad person get over yourselves

tjlipford
07-09-2010, 02:39 PM
Hey, he did what was best for him and his family. The people in Cleveland are more upset of the way he left Cleveland not that he actually left. He knew for a long time where he was going and I truly believe that. Look at the way he played against Boston. He was emotionally not in it. Stats don't prove everything.

People say he didn't have the team. Clearly after we lost u could say that but in April everybody had the Cavs winning or atleast going to the championship. Now all of a sudden we never had a good team around him etc....

I don't know if people know this but in any move we made Lebron was always asked if he was OK with it and he signed off on it everytime.

Also if he was so unhappy with his team why everytime he was awarded MVP did he bring the while team up when he accepted his award? It was always ********. His true colors came out last night flat-out.

Again speaking for Cavs fans we are not as upset with him leaving as we are the way he went about doing it. Embarassed us on national tv.

Lebron is a sidekick. No question at all. He is not Kobe or MJ. Don't ever compare.

Again I do feel like Miami will be alright with that team it's just lebron will always be looked at as a ***** by his hometown and state. **** his legacy

REALLYYYYY?
07-09-2010, 02:41 PM
i just don't understand his decision...

Mrphilly
07-09-2010, 02:45 PM
I don't see whats the problem, Lebron wanted to play with better players. Jordan, Magic, Bird, Kobe, never won anything alone. It can't be done. Kobe has 0 Titles without Shaq and Gasol. Nobody hates KG for going to the celtics.

All people say is Lebron doesn't want to win, he just wants to market himself. Lebron is such an Ego maniac. Now he joins a team with two other stars, showing he wants to win and doesnty have an Ego.

Lebron will get critized regardless, as long as their are Kobe fans making threads like this.

tjlipford
07-09-2010, 02:45 PM
lol i love that people are so stupid to think that because he swtiched teams he is a bad person get over yourselves

Nah, not us in Cleveland. We are upset that he is gone but he disrespected the whole state of Ohio. The way he went about it was all wrong. The whole world seen him **** us over like hoes.

He was a free agent so he could sign wherever he wanted but don't put the city on blast like that. It is what it is though.

yanks 4lif3
07-09-2010, 02:47 PM
"LeDouchebag"

MeBron
LeB****

CowboysKB24
07-09-2010, 02:48 PM
Don't count out the Lakers just yet....Plus you have upcoming teams like the Bulls, Thunder, and Magics....

If the Heat don't win it'll be the most pathetic show of all time.

Tony_Starks
07-09-2010, 02:49 PM
Nope. He did what he had to do to win. If he would've stayed in Cleveland til he was washed up and never won people would've said he was stupid and why didn't he leave earlier. KG jumped ship and was regarded as Bostons hero. KG also told Lebron he wished he had did it earlier in his career by the way....


The only ones that will forever hate will be the team he left and the team that blew up their roster for him. Other than that he'll still get the same love everywhere else he always had.

Sportfan
07-09-2010, 02:55 PM
Hey, he did what was best for him and his family. The people in Cleveland are more upset of the way he left Cleveland not that he actually left. He knew for a long time where he was going and I truly believe that. Look at the way he played against Boston. He was emotionally not in it. Stats don't prove everything.

People say he didn't have the team. Clearly after we lost u could say that but in April everybody had the Cavs winning or atleast going to the championship. Now all of a sudden we never had a good team around him etc....

I don't know if people know this but in any move we made Lebron was always asked if he was OK with it and he signed off on it everytime.

Also if he was so unhappy with his team why everytime he was awarded MVP did he bring the while team up when he accepted his award? It was always ********. His true colors came out last night flat-out.

Again speaking for Cavs fans we are not as upset with him leaving as we are the way he went about doing it. Embarassed us on national tv.

Lebron is a sidekick. No question at all. He is not Kobe or MJ. Don't ever compare.

Again I do feel like Miami will be alright with that team it's just lebron will always be looked at as a ***** by his hometown and state. **** his legacy
Did he not lead the Cavs with the 2nd best player being Mo Williams, to the best record in the East twice in a row?

projectk7
07-09-2010, 03:03 PM
You guys are all just bitter bitter bitter people. For one, I'm not even a lebron fan... but at least I'm realistic, reasonable, and rational. (3 Rs people, live by it)

1. This type of offseason is unprecedented. Never have teams literally dumped their whole rosters to free up cap space for the chance at signing at least 2 of the best players at once. Never has a team litearlly stack their teams with expiring contracts to make cap room which would allow 3 of the best players to sign together. Stop crying about how Jordan and Kobe didn't go somewhere and sign contracts with other players because for one, they NEVER even had the opportunity nor did anyone think it was possible. To say they would've never done the same is unreasonable because who knows... if they had the chance to do it, they might've as well.

2. The reason why all these teams CLEARED their whole rosters was to have a shot at signing lebron. None of the teams would've done this if it were just Bosh in FA or just Wade in FA. Lebron is the SOLE reason why teams were willing to shed all their teams assets in hope of signing lebron. For one player to command such a status in itself deserves recognition whether you hate the guy or not.

3. All of the all-time greats had amazing players with them to win. It'll be hard to find one of the GOATs to have won a championship by themself REGARDLESS of how the team was assembled. This is not a point to say that Lebron left cleveland to join forces or blah blah blah. This is just a point to say that The best in the world need superstar support.

Jordan had Pippen (arguably the 2nd best player at the time and HOFer), and had the likes of Rodman, Kerr, Grant, Kukoc.. all stars in their own right and HOF coach Phil Jackson

Kobe had Shaq (who mind you was the #1 guy at the time) and Gasol&co. and HOF coach Phil Jackson

Magic had KAREEM, James Worthy, Bob McAdoo aka 3 Hall of Famers and HOF Coach Pat Riley

Bird had McHale (post move master), Robert Parrish, Dennis JOhnson aka 3 Hall of Famers and HOF Coach KC Jones

Lebron had who? Donyell Marshall, Anderson Varejao, Ilgausklas, Anthony Parker.... WHO? and coach Mike Brown? Mike Brown will not coach another winning season in his career without Lebron.

For Lebron to leave does not tarnish his reputation at all. It is not his fault that management was unable to surround him with Hall of Famers like Bird, Magic, Kobe and MJ. I'm sure all of those greats would've left if management wasn't providing him the proper chance to win.

4. To all of you who say Kobe was able to win with less help than the Heat.. Shame on you. To whoever is saying Odom is average at best, consider he was getting serious interest in the open market before he decided to settle for less in LA. Odom could be a #2 or 3 guy on most other teams in the league. Without Gasol, what was Kobe able to accomplish? How on earth did LA win game 7 when Kobe couldn't even hit a shot? Because his teammates are good, that's why! Kobe was basically in the same exact situation Lebron is in now. 3 years ago he was stuck on a losing team and demanded a trade, what if he got traded to a team with another star on it and won? does that ruin his repuation in the history books? It's just unfortunate that Lebron wasn't given the right tools to win in Cleveland. KOBE SOLD OUT JUST AS MUCH AS LEBRON DID.


I guess what I'm trying to say is, even though it was Wade's team... I can bet you that it will be Lebron's team very soon. I'm not saying this argument because of skill set or winning experience or anything like that nor am I referring to who the Fan's believe the team belongs to (obviously the fans believe it is Wade's team), but consider this: If the heat win the championship, who will the reporters look to first? Who will be the first person interviewed? who will have his game analyzed MOST by those in the industry? Lebron. Also consider this: If the heat lose and don't realize success, who bares the blame? Lebron, not Wade. Everything in Miami now revolves around Lebron and whether we like it or not, that's just how it is.

My last point is this: Just two years ago, when the topic of if Kobe's legacy could be compared to MJs, people laughed and joked and laughed some more. How could anyone compare Kobe to MJ? Oh how mightily have things changed in just 2 years.

Oldmantrash
07-09-2010, 03:07 PM
I just wonder how he is going to handle being a villain now,he's been loved by everyone his whole career,now that won't be the case,he will be heckled and booed all over the country.

He has never had to deal with that before,he is no longer "King James".

69centers
07-09-2010, 03:12 PM
He didn't understand that his teams in Cleveland were never too strong around him. No 2nd banana like a Pippen to play with. He could have signed a shorter deal to keep trying, or try in Chicago where he could have been the number 1 guy with a great supporting cast. Instead, he panicked way too soon and took the easy way out to join the Miami all star team. He will now never ever be considered as great as Kobe, Magic, Bird, or MJ, no matter how many rings he wins.

Stunner
07-09-2010, 03:13 PM
He only gave 2 million to charity for the show last night, he said all of it was going to them. SMH thats about 8 million if u aske me for wat that show made did last night.

broncosfan4eva
07-09-2010, 03:19 PM
lebron's way of leaving the cavs fans will never be forgotten if he not had his "1 hour" special i do not think it would be as bad but he just added onto it causing hatred.
which i think he deserves ala putting down the other cleveland sports teams.

lakerssssssss
07-09-2010, 03:19 PM
nope. If history has shown us anything, its that sports fans have very short term memories.

You have said on psd countless times that Lebron is better than Kobe because the only reason Kobe won a championship was because of Shaq. You even said there was NO WAY that Kobe could win a title as the #1 man.

Kobe has now won 2 titles as the #1 man on his team, and proved you wrong.

I always thought you were a rational poster, but is clear that you just hate Kobe and love lebron no matter what Lebron does.

If Kobe would do what Lebron did, and try to gather a super team in order to win a championship, I am SURE you along with other kobe haters would bash him to no end.

Please be consistent. If you were one of the ones that said that Kobe could not compare to Jordan because Jordan won all 6 titles as the #1 man, you have to say that Lebron can't compare to Kobe because with this choice he just made, it does not seem like he will ever win a title as the #1 man.

Be consistent for once.

D Blue987
07-09-2010, 03:21 PM
I don't see whats the problem, Lebron wanted to play with better players. Jordan, Magic, Bird, Kobe, never won anything alone. It can't be done. Kobe has 0 Titles without Shaq and Gasol. Nobody hates KG for going to the celtics.

All people say is Lebron doesn't want to win, he just wants to market himself. Lebron is such an Ego maniac. Now he joins a team with two other stars, showing he wants to win and doesnty have an Ego.

Lebron will get critized regardless, as long as their are Kobe fans making threads like this.

The most critical flaw in your argument is that none of the players you mentioned trully had the decision to play with their proposed sidekicks. Shaq was in LA before Kobe was there and Kobe was drafted. He didnt have the decision to play where he wanted to play and didnt have the ability to demand anything because he was unproven. Same goes with Jordan and Magic. They were drafted and just went along with what team wanted their services. KG and Gasol didnt have a choice either because they were traded. They didnt make that choice in free agency. KG was a superstar but he didnt come out in free agency and talked to Pierce and ALlen and say he lets team up. It wasnt his choice. Gasol didnt have the choice either. He was on one of the shitiest teams to begin with a team that couldnt even win a playoff game with him on it. The point is that Lebron had a choice to enhance his Legacy by going to one of these cellar teams like NYK, NETS, and BULLS (no disrespect to their history) and prove that with time he could be the leader and lead any of those teams to a championship. Yesterday he made a choice between going down as potentially the goat or being selfish and tarnishing his legacy by taking the easy way out and trying to overpower the competition. That is exactly the reason why Reggie Miller made those comments about 4 championships=1 championship in Cleveland because people will look back and say he wasnt challenged enough. He sold himself short is exactly what he did. He made the decision that he didnt care about what people will say when it is all said in done but that is a decision I believe that will haunt him after his career is over. He will ask himself "did I truly deserve those rings and did I truly accomplish anything worth remembering during my career. Great I won some rings but look at the help I had." Lebron is a cope out *****!!!!

Swashcuff
07-09-2010, 03:23 PM
You guys are all just bitter bitter bitter people. For one, I'm not even a lebron fan... but at least I'm realistic, reasonable, and rational. (3 Rs people, live by it)

1. This type of offseason is unprecedented. Never have teams literally dumped their whole rosters to free up cap space for the chance at signing at least 2 of the best players at once. Never has a team litearlly stack their teams with expiring contracts to make cap room which would allow 3 of the best players to sign together. Stop crying about how Jordan and Kobe didn't go somewhere and sign contracts with other players because for one, they NEVER even had the opportunity nor did anyone think it was possible. To say they would've never done the same is unreasonable because who knows... if they had the chance to do it, they might've as well.

2. The reason why all these teams CLEARED their whole rosters was to have a shot at signing lebron. None of the teams would've done this if it were just Bosh in FA or just Wade in FA. Lebron is the SOLE reason why teams were willing to shed all their teams assets in hope of signing lebron. For one player to command such a status in itself deserves recognition whether you hate the guy or not.

3. All of the all-time greats had amazing players with them to win. It'll be hard to find one of the GOATs to have won a championship by themself REGARDLESS of how the team was assembled. This is not a point to say that Lebron left cleveland to join forces or blah blah blah. This is just a point to say that The best in the world need superstar support.

Jordan had Pippen (arguably the 2nd best player at the time and HOFer), and had the likes of Rodman, Kerr, Grant, Kukoc.. all stars in their own right and HOF coach Phil Jackson

Kobe had Shaq (who mind you was the #1 guy at the time) and Gasol&co. and HOF coach Phil Jackson

Magic had KAREEM, James Worthy, Bob McAdoo aka 3 Hall of Famers and HOF Coach Pat Riley

Bird had McHale (post move master), Robert Parrish, Dennis JOhnson aka 3 Hall of Famers and HOF Coach KC Jones

Lebron had who? Donyell Marshall, Anderson Varejao, Ilgausklas, Anthony Parker.... WHO? and coach Mike Brown? Mike Brown will not coach another winning season in his career without Lebron.

For Lebron to leave does not tarnish his reputation at all. It is not his fault that management was unable to surround him with Hall of Famers like Bird, Magic, Kobe and MJ. I'm sure all of those greats would've left if management wasn't providing him the proper chance to win.

4. To all of you who say Kobe was able to win with less help than the Heat.. Shame on you. To whoever is saying Odom is average at best, consider he was getting serious interest in the open market before he decided to settle for less in LA. Odom could be a #2 or 3 guy on most other teams in the league. Without Gasol, what was Kobe able to accomplish? How on earth did LA win game 7 when Kobe couldn't even hit a shot? Because his teammates are good, that's why! Kobe was basically in the same exact situation Lebron is in now. 3 years ago he was stuck on a losing team and demanded a trade, what if he got traded to a team with another star on it and won? does that ruin his repuation in the history books? It's just unfortunate that Lebron wasn't given the right tools to win in Cleveland. KOBE SOLD OUT JUST AS MUCH AS LEBRON DID.


I guess what I'm trying to say is, even though it was Wade's team... I can bet you that it will be Lebron's team very soon. I'm not saying this argument because of skill set or winning experience or anything like that nor am I referring to who the Fan's believe the team belongs to (obviously the fans believe it is Wade's team), but consider this: If the heat win the championship, who will the reporters look to first? Who will be the first person interviewed? who will have his game analyzed MOST by those in the industry? Lebron. Also consider this: If the heat lose and don't realize success, who bares the blame? Lebron, not Wade. Everything in Miami now revolves around Lebron and whether we like it or not, that's just how it is.

My last point is this: Just two years ago, when the topic of if Kobe's legacy could be compared to MJs, people laughed and joked and laughed some more. How could anyone compare Kobe to MJ? Oh how mightily have things changed in just 2 years.

Great post

D.Rose#1
07-09-2010, 03:24 PM
lbj sucks

Tony_Starks
07-09-2010, 03:28 PM
He only gave 2 million to charity for the show last night, he said all of it was going to them. SMH thats about 8 million if u aske me for wat that show made did last night.



Wow.... only two million huh? What a selfish man he is.

still1ballin
07-09-2010, 03:28 PM
lbj sucks

m26555
07-09-2010, 03:29 PM
Wow.... only two million huh? What a selfish man he is.
Yeah, because $2 million is just SO much money for a man in his position.

Lakersho
07-09-2010, 03:30 PM
I mean, this is one example. Kobe forced a trade before he played a minute. He won 3 rings before he had hair on his nuts. He helped move Shaq out of town. He crapped on his young center when his management wouldn't ship him for Kidd. He demanded a trade when the Lakers had 3 subpar seasons, and then realized his no trade clause saved him from disaster. He was involved in a rape case. He totally choked in the 2008 finals. But when he won last year, and then this year, all was forgiven.
I am only pointing out that fans are only concerned with what have you done for me lately for the most part.

...Isn't really suprising you throw a kobe bash out acting like your making a point. 1. shaq was Buss's call ,get it right. no matter how you put your biased point ,what lebron did is worse than ANY player has done to his team. lebron hamstrung the cavs for years to come by wantin " to win now " lebron hand picked the players ,cavs gott'em, he still didn't win... thats why lebron gave up the cape , the gadget tool belt to d. wade .so now d.wade is batman, lebron is now robin, and thier faithful side kick " lapdogg " . all L.B.J . did is tell everyone he can't run a team and win the whole tamale... so you can try and turn this into " but kobe did this and this " and alls forgivin stuff all you want. bottom line " NOT THE SAME THING " as for chokin, dont get me started with LEBRON....

D.Rose#1
07-09-2010, 03:34 PM
Wow.... only two million huh? What a selfish man he is.

more reasons to hate him

tbomlad
07-09-2010, 03:36 PM
Cavs & Bulls fans should hate Bosh not Lebron. Bosh single handily changed the future of the Eastern Conference. If Bosh would have done the sign & trade with Cleveland than Lebron would still be in Cleveland and Wade would be in Chicago. Miami would be forced into rebuilding mode and a lottery team for at least the next five years. One man's decision greatly effected the destiny of three teams.

lakerssssssss
07-09-2010, 03:36 PM
I don't see whats the problem, Lebron wanted to play with better players. Jordan, Magic, Bird, Kobe, never won anything alone. It can't be done. Kobe has 0 Titles without Shaq and Gasol. Nobody hates KG for going to the celtics.

All people say is Lebron doesn't want to win, he just wants to market himself. Lebron is such an Ego maniac. Now he joins a team with two other stars, showing he wants to win and doesnty have an Ego.

Lebron will get critized regardless, as long as their are Kobe fans making threads like this.

Another hypocrite. Kobe gets criticized by everyone for being on a good team, and now when lebron chooses a bunch of amazing players to create a superteam of some sorts, he isn't criticized.

First of all, Kobe didn't run off and asssemble a cast of amazing people to play against him.

Second of all, you can't compare ANY of Kobe's teams to this one that Lebron ran off to make.
This miami team has two of the best 3 players in the game today, in their prime.

broncosfan4eva
07-09-2010, 03:42 PM
prince james

SuddenSam
07-09-2010, 03:50 PM
Actually, those of us from Ohio prefer Queen James. He knew he couldn't go to CHI because he would never measure up to MJ. He is a gutless coward. Cleveland will need National Guard at games whenever Miami comes in.

dnl123
07-09-2010, 03:51 PM
You have said on psd countless times that Lebron is better than Kobe because the only reason Kobe won a championship was because of Shaq. You even said there was NO WAY that Kobe could win a title as the #1 man.

Kobe has now won 2 titles as the #1 man on his team, and proved you wrong.

I always thought you were a rational poster, but is clear that you just hate Kobe and love lebron no matter what Lebron does.

If Kobe would do what Lebron did, and try to gather a super team in order to win a championship, I am SURE you along with other kobe haters would bash him to no end.

Please be consistent. If you were one of the ones that said that Kobe could not compare to Jordan because Jordan won all 6 titles as the "1 man, you have to say that Lebron can't compare to Kobe because with this choice he just made, it does not seem like he will ever win a title as the #1 man.

Be consistent for once.

And you're unbiased? Your name gives you away.

Can we just let this thing play out? Gosh I feel like it's really dumb to say he just tarnished his legacy. He could go to Miami and score 30 per and have around 8 assists still and I consider that a great player. Let's see how it plays out instead of guess that Wade and Lebron are going to make each other worse.

Southsideheat
07-09-2010, 03:54 PM
simply, i thought Lebron was different.

Tony_Starks
07-09-2010, 03:57 PM
more reasons to hate him



I know right... Didn't anybody bother to tell this guy that when you're voluntarily giving money to a worthy charity that the bare minimum is at least 6 million dollars? He's going to give a measley 2? What in the world does he expect them to do with that chump change?

This guy is just the epitome of evil!

Mell413
07-09-2010, 04:01 PM
This is a question we can't answer yet. We have to see how this plays out first. LeBron is a better player than Wade now and is 3 years younger so I can see it being LeBron's team at some point. I haven't heard the contract details, but this deal will be up when he's about 31 years old. Obviously you can't predict injuries and such, but he would still have some prime years to win a title as the guy. Even though I think if he wins in Miami he will be the best player on that team.

lakerssssssss
07-09-2010, 04:07 PM
And you're unbiased? Your name gives you away.

Can we just let this thing play out? Gosh I feel like it's really dumb to say he just tarnished his legacy. He could go to Miami and score 30 per and have around 8 assists still and I consider that a great player. Let's see how it plays out instead of guess that Wade and Lebron are going to make each other worse.

Who the **** are you. I was not responding to you.

bedelato2
07-09-2010, 04:12 PM
As a LeBron fan I respect his decision. He did what was best for himself and his family. As far as his legacy goes how the **** are we even in a position to say that. Everyone is saying its DWADE's team. Hes going to be the man. In my honest opinion DWADE has nothing to loose from this. Lebron is the best player in the game today (arguably), and still is LeBron james. What if they all went to a different team? Still same scenerio? Since everyone think Dwade is going to lead I ask you this question....If this experiment team doesnt work (meaning no titles) who is everyone on hear going to bash? who is the media going to point the finger at?....Ill give you hit not the supposedly "Leader" of Miami. Dwade has nothing to loose and everything to gain from this. Lebron has everything to loose, and very little to gain. People are seriously bitter for this decision. Stop the threads and watch the 2010-2011 NBA season and see how this all plays out.

Kashmir13579
07-09-2010, 04:13 PM
Kobe is playing with Gasol, Odom , Artest and Bynum. That's f'ing stacked. Gasol lead teams to 50 wins even beefore Kobe did in the West, that's how good gasol is. If lebron had a Gasol, he would have a title by now but instead, his gasol was Mo Williams:o
ummm, kobe/gasol. wade/bosh. magic/kareem. kobe/shaQ. the list goes on. the heat have two kobes. ****ing ********. odom artest and bynum arent lebron and dwade. numbscull

Rapsjaysleafs
07-09-2010, 04:26 PM
He is now never going to win a championship as the top dog and leader of a team. He will also have tainted championships because he was playing with not 1, but 2 elite players. Kobe was criticized for his entire career, until he won a ring "by himself". Now he has done that two times. It shows that he is truly one of the greatest basketball players ever. Now LBJ deserves the same criticism as Kobe did.

Obviously, LBJ is just frustrated. He won back to back MVPs and back to back regular season champions. He hasn't been able to get them out of the East. Reggie Miller says "Three to four rings in Miami is equivalent to one championship in Cleveland". LBJ is blaming it on the organization by leaving them. He should understand he was the major reason for their losses due to poor poor play in the playoffs.


Thoughts?

Every single post in this thread you have made is bashing Lebron James.

Can you not be biased for a few minutes and understand the bigger picture of all this.

I am a Raptors fan. I Love Chris Bosh. I am sad to see him go. I do not like these players signing with the Heat not because I wanted them on my team, but because I love the competitiveness of sport. I understand the Raptors will not win the East but but I want to see teams fight for it, not just the Heat win the East for the next 5 years.

With that being said all you talk about "Legacy" and Kobe being better and blah blah is non sense.

You cannot compare Mo Williams, Anthony Parker, Jamison for half a season and an old Shaq to Fish, Odom, Artest, Gasol and Bynum.

The Lakers 6th man - Odom - would be the second option on the Cavs. That right there shows you the type of supporting cast that Kobe has had (Ps This is not a bashing post AT ALL)

Kobe a few years ago demanded a trade. Why is Lebron serving 7 years for the Cavs different? Lebron did his time. He made them relevant.

Everyone speaks of MJ. People so quickly forget that MJ had a top 50 player all time (Pippen/Wade) MJ had arguably one of the better PFs in the game (Rodman/Bosh). No one will EVER take away from MJ but it was never only him. The Cavs it was only Lebron. Lebron will have a legacy forever. He changed the game for the better and he will continue to do so.

Do I agree with 3 All Stars signing in Miami? No. Do I understand it? Yes and I think you should take a step back and try and understand for a second what is going on here.

MassoDio
07-09-2010, 05:14 PM
For those of you who do not want to read any reasoning and automatically want to label me a hater from the get go, here is the short answer:

Yes, LeBron severely tarnished his legacy, and his brand took a big hit as well. The NBA will also take a hit because of this.

For those of you who are interested in my reasoning, here goes.

To start with, there are many people in here using the “Kobe and Michael couldn’t win it on their own either, no one can” argument.
There is a huge difference in those scenarios that strengthen the idea of LeBron tarnishing his legacy. Those two had teams built around them. Yes, they had all stars on their teams, and no, they could not win a title on their own. No one is, or at least no one should be, claiming that. Those two players had a team built to compliment their greatness. They had pieces put around them that allowed them to have great players who also knew their roles. Those two were unequivocally seen as the number one guy. They did not choose to leave their teams with the sole purpose of joining two other great players. At no time was Scottie, or Pau, ever considered a top three player like Wade is. Those are the guys Michael and Kobe wanted to destroy. That is greatness. Magic was the unquestioned leader of the Lakers despite having other hall of famers on his team. Bird was as well. Those guys reveled in trying to beat each other. They never tried to join the same team because they were too competitive. Even when Kobe asked to be traded, he asked to be traded to Chicago; A team with no star; A team that would have had to be built around him as the number one guy. He did not ask to be traded to San Antonio so that he could join Tim Duncan to have titles handed to him. He wanted to earn them and beat the likes of Duncan.

LeBron chose to go to a team that already has an unquestioned leader; A guy who has been argued, by some, to be on LeBron’s level. LeBron conceded by making this decision that he could not win as the number one guy. He conceded that he could not win with a team built around him. He conceded that he does not have the drive, competitiveness, mentality, or desire to be the greatest of all time. LeBron conceded that he is more Scottie than Michael; more Worthy than Magic. All of this severely tarnishes his legacy. LeBron will never be considered, by knowledgeable fans or analysts, in the same realm as Jordan, Kobe, Magic, or Bird. He quite simply made it be known that he does not have what it takes to reach that level of greatness. LeBron will still be great. He already is. But he has informed everyone that his greatness is not on the level to which his hype has always been. This leads me to why this is bad for the NBA and LeBron’s brand.

The NBA will reap the rewards from the initial curiosity. In the long run, if this team dominates, the league will lose the casual interest fans. Those are the fans that keep the sport alive. True fans will always be there. But they don’t drive the popularity of the sport. Major sports want the casual fans because that gives them hope of developing new die hard fans. When a league is dominated by one or two teams, the casual fans lose interest. This is why the NFL strives for parody, and that is why they have been the number one sport in revenue and fan base for a long time. LeBron does not care about the NBA, its fans, or its history. That is going to hurt the NBA and LeBron’s brand. If LeBron’s legacy slips, so does his brand. It is inevitable. LeBron did himself a disservice. He did the league a disservice. LeBron did not owe Cleveland anything. Free Agency is the right of every player. I feel bad for Cleveland fans, but I do not feel that he owed it to them to stay there. However, LeBron does owe the NBA and its fans overall, to strive for greatness. Not just rings, but true greatness. He said no to that yesterday. With his talent, he owes it to himself to strive to be the best player ever, because he could absolutely be that if he wanted to be. And this is coming from a die hard Jordan fan. LeBron however, chose to look for the hand out, which is exactly what he has been given and taught since middle school. I am sad for the NBA, and I lost all respect for LeBron as a person and an athlete. He gave away his crown, his legacy, and his dignity yesterday, in a live television program that he asked for, and once again, was just given. LeBron chose to show everyone just how mentally small he really is.

You Heat fans and LeBron fans can argue and flame me all you want, but gauging the responses in this thread, there are many more who feel like I do than feel like you do. That is proof in itself how much of a hit LeBron's legacy and brand is falling by the minute.

All that being said, congratulations Heat fans. You will enjoy watching your team, even if no one else does. That is the beauty of sports.

CowboysKB24
07-09-2010, 08:01 PM
Every single post in this thread you have made is bashing Lebron James.

Can you not be biased for a few minutes and understand the bigger picture of all this.

I am a Raptors fan. I Love Chris Bosh. I am sad to see him go. I do not like these players signing with the Heat not because I wanted them on my team, but because I love the competitiveness of sport. I understand the Raptors will not win the East but but I want to see teams fight for it, not just the Heat win the East for the next 5 years.

With that being said all you talk about "Legacy" and Kobe being better and blah blah is non sense.

You cannot compare Mo Williams, Anthony Parker, Jamison for half a season and an old Shaq to Fish, Odom, Artest, Gasol and Bynum.

The Lakers 6th man - Odom - would be the second option on the Cavs. That right there shows you the type of supporting cast that Kobe has had (Ps This is not a bashing post AT ALL)

Kobe a few years ago demanded a trade. Why is Lebron serving 7 years for the Cavs different? Lebron did his time. He made them relevant.

Everyone speaks of MJ. People so quickly forget that MJ had a top 50 player all time (Pippen/Wade) MJ had arguably one of the better PFs in the game (Rodman/Bosh). No one will EVER take away from MJ but it was never only him. The Cavs it was only Lebron. Lebron will have a legacy forever. He changed the game for the better and he will continue to do so.

Do I agree with 3 All Stars signing in Miami? No. Do I understand it? Yes and I think you should take a step back and try and understand for a second what is going on here.

I am not bashing LBJ, it is just the truth. No real superstar would have ever done this. Every single super star is saying that, that has played in past. And I agree with that. Sorry you feel different, you are among the minority.

You are trying to convince me that Rodman and Pippen are equal to Bosh and Wade... get the hell out of here, you are the homer. Go away with that crap. It is not even close. Jordan didn't call his buddies up and says hey lets play together because we can't win any other way.

Jamison is better than Odom.

_KB24_
07-09-2010, 08:08 PM
The amount of stupidity in this thread is mindbogglingly :laugh:

Don't you guys even dare to compare Lebron to Kobe now. Wade comparisons are the only thing that should be even thought upon.

albertc86
07-09-2010, 08:24 PM
It's ironic how the LeBron lovers are defending him, but what he did was far worse than what Kobe did, even though Kobe was candid about his frustration. You can't say LeBron doesn't have an ego anymore; that just isn't true. Going on television to abandon your team just isn't James-like, if you ask me. How does it feel not being able to bash Kobe anymore? Lol.

sacto'srealist
07-09-2010, 08:30 PM
miami will win 4 rings

sacto'srealist
07-09-2010, 08:30 PM
i mean they will win 4 rings in 7 years i would say

gangis2169
07-09-2010, 08:33 PM
Kobe is playing with Gasol, Odom , Artest and Bynum. That's f'ing stacked. Gasol lead teams to 50 wins even beefore Kobe did in the West, that's how good gasol is. If lebron had a Gasol, he would have a title by now but instead, his gasol was Mo Williams:o

Lol what a tool!!!! As if Lebron didnt have 3 former all-stars on the cavs along with the european player of the year. your right feel sorry for him. I mean wouldnt you join a super team to beat Kobe? is that what it takes? good luck!

gangis2169
07-09-2010, 08:36 PM
I will always respect Wade for staying and helping get it done. just like Kobe and Pierce. True champions for sure. As for Lebron, Bosh, Garrnet, and Allen they should never be mentioned as greats whatso ever they all took the easy road out. You can say Gasol but the Grizz traded him because they felt his brother had more skill and toughness. So Gasol got lucky

97NYer
07-09-2010, 08:40 PM
If he had been drafted by a major team obviously that would have been ideal. Those 7 years in Cleveland are 7 LOST years. I hate LeBum but had he stayed in Cleveland and not won he would look even worse. I think his best choice would have been Chicago, NY or NJ.

ChiCubsFan
07-09-2010, 08:51 PM
How are Lebrons numbers going to be affected? I would say his scoring will go down for sure. I don't see him averaging 30 ppg. Also as far as the Lakers and Heat comparison. How many rings did Gasol, Artest and Odom win without Kobe....0. How many has Wade won without Lebron....1. How many has Lebron won without Wade....0

ZioAx
07-09-2010, 08:56 PM
He calls himself "King" James, but he runs to Miami like a coward to play two 2 other all stars.

Jaji
07-09-2010, 09:02 PM
What if Wade didn't come back to Miami? Tell me your reaction and be honest.

It wouldn't matter. I'm a LeBron fan, not necessarily a Heat fan. Anywhere LBJ went, that's who I'd be rooting for.

Call me a bandwagon fan if you want but I have my reasons. I'm from Buffalo. We don't have a team. I love the game but have no hometown team to root for. LeBron is from Akron. I have family in Akron and spent many summers there as a kid. So I was very excited to see a kid come out of Akron, a sort of second home to me. Oh and he happens to be the best player in the league? Yeah, I can root for him.

It honestly wouldn't have mattered to me who signed where. I was rolling with LeBron regardless. Landing with the Heat is cool because I don't dislike that team. Not only that, I live in FL now. Wade is cool, not my favorite player, but he's a gamer. Bosh? Eh. I honestly don't like him that much. I think he's overrated and his game just looks so gay. But oh well.

ccugrad1
07-09-2010, 09:05 PM
How is LeBron any different than any other person that has been a free agent? Free Agent means just that-- the individual is "free" to go whereever he or she so chooses! How come Suns fans aren't pissed Amare left for NY? Or Jazz fans upset Boozer left for Chicago? LeBron James owes the city of Cleveland absolutely nothing!

lamonster
07-09-2010, 09:06 PM
Lebron will never regain what he lost last night...he could win five championships with the Heat, and that wouldn't equal one championship for a guy who takes a team on his back and leads.

SANDBURG23
07-09-2010, 09:06 PM
Yet to see but that Global heop image he wants took a hit.

Jaji
07-09-2010, 09:18 PM
Why do people say he will not be mentioned with the greats when he's already mentioned with the greats? Its not like a steroid scandal was unearthed or something. How does a guy fall off the map for signing a contract? He's still the best player in the game today and the reigning 2x MVP.

smiddy012
07-09-2010, 09:56 PM
lebron is most likely going to win rings with this new team, but he'll never be mentioned with jordan, kobe, magic, and bird.

this.

Jaji
07-09-2010, 10:08 PM
You guys are all just bitter bitter bitter people. For one, I'm not even a lebron fan... but at least I'm realistic, reasonable, and rational. (3 Rs people, live by it)

1. This type of offseason is unprecedented. Never have teams literally dumped their whole rosters to free up cap space for the chance at signing at least 2 of the best players at once. Never has a team litearlly stack their teams with expiring contracts to make cap room which would allow 3 of the best players to sign together. Stop crying about how Jordan and Kobe didn't go somewhere and sign contracts with other players because for one, they NEVER even had the opportunity nor did anyone think it was possible. To say they would've never done the same is unreasonable because who knows... if they had the chance to do it, they might've as well.

2. The reason why all these teams CLEARED their whole rosters was to have a shot at signing lebron. None of the teams would've done this if it were just Bosh in FA or just Wade in FA. Lebron is the SOLE reason why teams were willing to shed all their teams assets in hope of signing lebron. For one player to command such a status in itself deserves recognition whether you hate the guy or not.

3. All of the all-time greats had amazing players with them to win. It'll be hard to find one of the GOATs to have won a championship by themself REGARDLESS of how the team was assembled. This is not a point to say that Lebron left cleveland to join forces or blah blah blah. This is just a point to say that The best in the world need superstar support.

Jordan had Pippen (arguably the 2nd best player at the time and HOFer), and had the likes of Rodman, Kerr, Grant, Kukoc.. all stars in their own right and HOF coach Phil Jackson

Kobe had Shaq (who mind you was the #1 guy at the time) and Gasol&co. and HOF coach Phil Jackson

Magic had KAREEM, James Worthy, Bob McAdoo aka 3 Hall of Famers and HOF Coach Pat Riley

Bird had McHale (post move master), Robert Parrish, Dennis JOhnson aka 3 Hall of Famers and HOF Coach KC Jones

Lebron had who? Donyell Marshall, Anderson Varejao, Ilgausklas, Anthony Parker.... WHO? and coach Mike Brown? Mike Brown will not coach another winning season in his career without Lebron.

For Lebron to leave does not tarnish his reputation at all. It is not his fault that management was unable to surround him with Hall of Famers like Bird, Magic, Kobe and MJ. I'm sure all of those greats would've left if management wasn't providing him the proper chance to win.

4. To all of you who say Kobe was able to win with less help than the Heat.. Shame on you. To whoever is saying Odom is average at best, consider he was getting serious interest in the open market before he decided to settle for less in LA. Odom could be a #2 or 3 guy on most other teams in the league. Without Gasol, what was Kobe able to accomplish? How on earth did LA win game 7 when Kobe couldn't even hit a shot? Because his teammates are good, that's why! Kobe was basically in the same exact situation Lebron is in now. 3 years ago he was stuck on a losing team and demanded a trade, what if he got traded to a team with another star on it and won? does that ruin his repuation in the history books? It's just unfortunate that Lebron wasn't given the right tools to win in Cleveland. KOBE SOLD OUT JUST AS MUCH AS LEBRON DID.


I guess what I'm trying to say is, even though it was Wade's team... I can bet you that it will be Lebron's team very soon. I'm not saying this argument because of skill set or winning experience or anything like that nor am I referring to who the Fan's believe the team belongs to (obviously the fans believe it is Wade's team), but consider this: If the heat win the championship, who will the reporters look to first? Who will be the first person interviewed? who will have his game analyzed MOST by those in the industry? Lebron. Also consider this: If the heat lose and don't realize success, who bares the blame? Lebron, not Wade. Everything in Miami now revolves around Lebron and whether we like it or not, that's just how it is.

My last point is this: Just two years ago, when the topic of if Kobe's legacy could be compared to MJs, people laughed and joked and laughed some more. How could anyone compare Kobe to MJ? Oh how mightily have things changed in just 2 years.

^This man knows what he's talking about :clap:.

ElMarroAfamado
07-09-2010, 10:29 PM
he has no legacy. its wades team.
the best he can do now is be a "pippen" when everyone swore on their grave he would be the next Jordan. Now, that should be taken as an insult.

ElMarroAfamado
07-09-2010, 10:30 PM
by the way its funny the only people defending the quitter are heat fans

ZioAx
07-09-2010, 10:30 PM
^This man knows what he's talking about :clap:.

Look at all the new Heat fans...

Agent008
07-09-2010, 10:35 PM
It depends what happens in Miami. If the Heat don't win a ring or if they only manage one, then his legacy defintely takes a hit. It will show that even with all the help you can ask for, he still wasn't good enough. If he wins 7+ like he's predicting, then he'll go down as one of the top five ever.

Agent008
07-09-2010, 10:39 PM
The amount of stupidity in this thread is mindbogglingly :laugh:

Don't you guys even dare to compare Lebron to Kobe now. Wade comparisons are the only thing that should be even thought upon.

You act like Kobe is any different. Do you remember a few years ago before Gasol got to LA? Kobe was begging to be traded, but he was stuck under contract.

iggypop123
07-09-2010, 10:43 PM
Why do people say he will not be mentioned with the greats when he's already mentioned with the greats? Its not like a steroid scandal was unearthed or something. How does a guy fall off the map for signing a contract? He's still the best player in the game today and the reigning 2x MVP.

people determine the discourse sorounding their legacies not the players. lebron made a decision that made many people scratch their heads in regards to attitude. most people expect people to be the guys and win it that way. did dominique say " well, time to join the celtics? did isiah thomas say time to join the celtics? did jordan say well i failed so i should go to the pistons?

Swashcuff
07-09-2010, 10:49 PM
by the way its funny the only people defending the quitter are heat fans

i defend him and i am a philly fan

BullsFTW
07-09-2010, 10:49 PM
And so did Lebron!

Sherlock, what i meant was Players coming to you, staying at the franchse that drafted you....Going through all the tough times and learning from your mistakes....LeBron will never be considered the greatest ever...

Jaji
07-09-2010, 11:02 PM
people determine the discourse sorounding their legacies not the players. lebron made a decision that made many people scratch their heads in regards to attitude. most people expect people to be the guys and win it that way. did dominique say " well, time to join the celtics? did isiah thomas say time to join the celtics? did jordan say well i failed so i should go to the pistons?

Completely different situations. Free agency wasn't structured the same back then. 1996 was the first year players could move freely and Shaq made headlines when he switched coasts. Not only that, LeBron was in a crappy city where no players were willing to go. He was never going to get sufficient help there. Would it have made a difference if Wade and Bosh went to Cleveland?

h2r09
07-09-2010, 11:04 PM
seriously it is quite funny how we all wait for the best guys in the league to not make everything about the money and not that he does something other than that he is making a bad decision? he left cleveland in a bad way, but he made the right decision if he wants to make winning championships his most important thing like he has always said he does.

these guys should all be commended.

_KB24_
07-09-2010, 11:49 PM
You act like Kobe is any different. Do you remember a few years ago before Gasol got to LA? Kobe was begging to be traded, but he was stuck under contract.

He stuck through though didn't he? Even with the situation at a dire point, he went into training camp better than every and ended up winning MVP and taking the Lakers to the Finals. Did he want to go to some other team with a superstar their and piggy back himself to a title? No. Legends win championships as the top dog, not go to someone else's team.