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View Full Version : Which New Contract Is Worse?



J4KOP99
07-06-2010, 10:28 AM
Simple. Joe Johnson's new contract with the Hawks or Amar'e Stoudemire's with the Knicks...



Joe Johnson- 6 years $119 Million


Amar'e Stoudemire- 5 years $99.7 Million

phlp_bj
07-06-2010, 10:31 AM
definately JJ. amare will still get you 20 and 10. JJ is a inconsistent shooter that is getting paid way too much

ManRam
07-06-2010, 10:32 AM
Johnson by a landslide. New York still has a lot of money to play around with. Amare isn't going to cripple them. Atlanta now can float around the 3-5 seed in the East for the next few years, but probably never making it far into the playoffs. The Knicks, depending on what they do this off-season and potentially next off-season, have the ability to do some serious damage.

I also think Amare is far better than Lee (who I love, he is a Gator after all), and that Amare will be fine, even without Nash.

TheKing23
07-06-2010, 10:37 AM
Johnson's easily.

JJ will be 35 and getting paid $24 million, Amar'e will be 32 in the last year of his deal and will still be a serviceable piece.

As ManRam said the Knicks still have money to play with so they can put more pieces around him. They will almost definitely post a better record next year as well. The Hawks paid $120 million to stay as they are...

tdunk21
07-06-2010, 10:38 AM
JJ 6/120 easily....

Giaps
07-06-2010, 10:43 AM
The Amare signing can still change... right now, if Amare brings the Knicks Lebron or Wade it will be one of the smartest signings ever. If not, then it would depend on who he is paired with.

idrinkpepsi
07-06-2010, 10:44 AM
JJ's contract looks ugly already.

geraptor
07-06-2010, 10:44 AM
johnson because it really kills the hawks flexibility

500 Level
07-06-2010, 10:44 AM
I actually think Amare is worse because he's a big man, and has the potential to breakdown faster than Johnson. Plus if the Knicks can't lure anyone else, it's going to look very silly.

ManRam
07-06-2010, 10:44 AM
There are rumors Phoenix might actually do a S&T with NY now...if that's the case, and they can dump Curry (like package him with Lee), then it become an even better deal. But that's probably a longshot.

Cubsfan365
07-06-2010, 10:44 AM
definately JJ. amare will still get you 20 and 10. JJ is a inconsistent shooter that is getting paid way too much
Since when will Amare get you 20/10? He hasn't done that once in his career.

J4KOP99
07-06-2010, 10:47 AM
There are rumors Phoenix might actually do a S&T with NY now...if that's the case, and they can dump Curry (like package him with Lee), then it become an even better deal. But that's probably a longshot.

That's pretty interesting, where did you see that? If the Knicks could somehow package Lee and Curry to trade for Amar'e, that would be huge. I doubt this happens though, I think the Knicks will want to use Lee to get someone else.

S-Dot
07-06-2010, 10:48 AM
I personally think JJ as of right now. But we have to wait to see what other moves the Hawks make to improve their team.

ManRam
07-06-2010, 10:54 AM
That's pretty interesting, where did you see that? If the Knicks could somehow package Lee and Curry to trade for Amar'e, that would be huge. I doubt this happens though, I think the Knicks will want to use Lee to get someone else.

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/sports/articles/2010/07/05/20100705phoenix-suns-amare-stoudemire-plan.html

Looks like they might just be interested in getting a TPE back. But still...maybe they will want Lee.

Raven19
07-06-2010, 10:55 AM
JJ cause of his age and number of years on the contract

Slimsim
07-06-2010, 10:58 AM
Plus Curry is and expiring contract so that wouldn't be bad for PHX.

Slimsim
07-06-2010, 10:59 AM
Also if you consider how JJ bomb in the playoffs the contract looks even more ugly.

koreancabbage
07-06-2010, 11:06 AM
Since when will Amare get you 20/10? He hasn't done that once in his career.

exactly

and now since he doesn't have Nash and a team that doesn't play defense, i wonder how many games NYK would lose this year. Amare is arguably even worse than Lee cuz Lee would at least hustle and grab boards

Amare doesn't hustle nor does he grab boards even when he has a player like Nash to make his offensive game much easier. This guy should be grabbing at least 11 boards with the athleticism he has and hustling when he doesn't have to exert so much effort on offense.

NKY fans are just happy they signed someone- even if there is a player they already have who plays just as well as Amare and does the small things better.

Lee would have been cheaper as well.

Kakaroach
07-06-2010, 11:09 AM
Its Joe Johnson, sorry Hawks fans. Guy will be making well over 20 million when he's 35 years old, and it puts their cap in a very bad position for the next few years with the long contracts of Bibby and Smith as well.

Big Quett
07-06-2010, 11:28 AM
Since when will Amare get you 20/10? He hasn't done that once in his career.

Same thing i was thinking. if he hasnt done it in 8 years he is probably not going to do it now

69centers
07-06-2010, 11:52 AM
both are overpaid, and underachievers in the playoffs

The Raven
07-06-2010, 12:36 PM
JJ easily. This man isnt capable of winning playoffs for you. Not even going to come close to a championship. They put a shitload of money into a player who's 29 years old. 6 years to be exact. Realistically he has some 2 years left playing at this level which isnt that great to begin with. Horrible contract by the hawks.

Amare on the other hand for all his faults still plays at a very high level while being fairly young. Besides if Amare can somehow real in a big name FA, then this contract would be worth it for the Knicks.

phlp_bj
07-06-2010, 12:40 PM
i believe amare can get 20 and 10 next season. pretty sure knicks will still have no one aside from amare. so his production will go up as a main option

Shahrose
07-06-2010, 12:40 PM
how is it that Amar'e is getting 5yr/100m? I thought the max was 16.5m a yr?

Giaps
07-06-2010, 01:09 PM
how is it that Amar'e is getting 5yr/100m? I thought the max was 16.5m a yr?
Pay increases and not every player has the same max amount. Depends on how many years you're in the league.

Giaps
07-06-2010, 01:10 PM
i believe amare can get 20 and 10 next season. pretty sure knicks will still have no one aside from amare. so his production will go up as a main option
:facepalm:

REALLYYYYY?
07-06-2010, 01:17 PM
it's too hard for me to say right now. they are both pretty bad.

Slimsim
07-06-2010, 01:19 PM
exactly

and now since he doesn't have Nash and a team that doesn't play defense, i wonder how many games NYK would lose this year. Amare is arguably even worse than Lee cuz Lee would at least hustle and grab boards

Amare doesn't hustle nor does he grab boards even when he has a player like Nash to make his offensive game much easier. This guy should be grabbing at least 11 boards with the athleticism he has and hustling when he doesn't have to exert so much effort on offense.

NKY fans are just happy they signed someone- even if there is a player they already have who plays just as well as Amare and does the small things better.

Lee would have been cheaper as well.

If you replace amare and lee in the WCF are you saying that Suns would have won because lee is better and he get more rebounds? Even though you don't understand lee was padding his stats and never box out so his team can get a rebound or 2. Or the fact that he's the only Big man in the paint for the Knicks ? Or what about the fact that lee can't guard PF is to small for Centers.

Thisisouryear!!
07-06-2010, 01:20 PM
J4KOP99------are u serious with this thread??????!!?!?!?! its not even close, JJ has the worse contract by far, just look at the results

Ragun
07-06-2010, 01:20 PM
Jj

Mplsman
07-06-2010, 01:21 PM
JJ, but overall Rudy Gay.

Slimsim
07-06-2010, 01:23 PM
both are overpaid, and underachievers in the playoffs

i guess everyone going to turn a blind eye on his playoff performance this year. And the fact that he played better defense in the playoffs.

Lee Best PF in the NBA because he average 20/10 on a Mediocre Knicks team

Raidaz4Life
07-06-2010, 01:23 PM
Johnson is easily the worse contract.

h2r09
07-06-2010, 01:26 PM
i guess everyone going to turn a blind eye on his playoff performance this year. And the fact that he played better defense in the playoffs.

Lee Best PF in the NBA because he average 20/10 on a Mediocre Knicks team

yet you are going to turn a blind eye to his defense for every other game he has ever played but you will focus on like 15 games? ya that is just a very smart idea. Amare is going to be the worst move of the offseason by far. Good player, not great and is not worth giving that much money and for 5 years. Pure idiocy.

roshan3ai
07-06-2010, 01:27 PM
Johnson will get over 20 million at the age of 35. It's definitely him.

kozelkid
07-06-2010, 01:31 PM
Both are bad, but JJ's is simply terrible. I'd say it's the worst contract of all time. Rashard Lewis has now lost that record. And I say that because you have to compare the ages of Lewis and Joe Johnson when each received their contracts and how far their respective teams can go.

Human FlameShld
07-06-2010, 01:34 PM
Neither is a real max player, why would the Suns not offer Amare a max deal if he was truly elite.

Joe Johnson's contract was not as bad because Atlanta couldn't afford to lose him and had to overpay to keep there playoff team together.

Amare getting this contract to play on a team without a point guard and a coach he has already had issues with and the Suns not willing to give him a big contract after trying to trade him a few months ago...I think the Suns know better than anyone and so this contract is worse.


But I'll add a write in vote....why did Rudy Gay get that contract?

Korman12
07-06-2010, 01:35 PM
At first I would have said 50/50, because of Amare's injury risks and Johnson's age. But, considering the Hawks will have much less room to move players around and the Knicks are still in good financial shape (this year, so far), I'll take the 5-year over the 6.

Slimsim
07-06-2010, 01:35 PM
yet you are going to turn a blind eye to his defense for every other game he has ever played but you will focus on like 15 games? ya that is just a very smart idea. Amare is going to be the worst move of the offseason by far. Good player, not great and is not worth giving that much money and for 5 years. Pure idiocy.

You going to wish you had amare when you starting line best player is Micheal Bustley.

kurivaimu
07-06-2010, 01:41 PM
Rudy Gays contract is the worst. Seriously he aint worth that money.

JonnyBrav000
07-06-2010, 01:54 PM
yet you are going to turn a blind eye to his defense for every other game he has ever played but you will focus on like 15 games? ya that is just a very smart idea. Amare is going to be the worst move of the offseason by far. Good player, not great and is not worth giving that much money and for 5 years. Pure idiocy.


I understand you don't like the signing, but to say this is going to be the worst off-season move this year by far is "idiocy". Amare will make the knicks a better team, and I believe he increases their chances of either landing Lerbon or Wade. If one of those two guys ends up on the team, signing Amare would have been worth it. If neither guy signs, the Joe Johnson, Rudy Gay and Darko contract are all worse. At least Amare can score in the paint (led the nba in this category last season), and shoot the mid-range shot. He could also be paired with guys like Monta Ellis or Tony Parker this season, not saying this would be a championship team then but they would be able a playoff team for sure.

johnnyswimm
07-06-2010, 01:55 PM
as of right now JJ contract is the worse, the hawks never go far and they could of gotten more players for cheaper. as of right now whatever team picks up lebron will be the worse contract, the man cant even get a ring even if you put someone around him they will just argue who gets the lime light. its ridiculous what they are playing for teams that players cant do s**t.

NYKalltheway
07-06-2010, 02:03 PM
Joe Johnson 29 +6 = paying a 35 year old over 20m
Amare Stoudemire 27+5= paying a 32 year old over 20m

No contest...

(of course both must stay fit during all these years)

elizur
07-06-2010, 02:04 PM
as of right now JJ contract is the worse, the hawks never go far and they could of gotten more players for cheaper. as of right now whatever team picks up lebron will be the worse contract, the man cant even get a ring even if you put someone around him they will just argue who gets the lime light. its ridiculous what they are playing for teams that players cant do s**t.

hahah, you are comedy. There is no way a player that generates as much revenue as Lebron would can be a bad contract. They will make the contract back and more. Plus, you are an idiot.

elizur
07-06-2010, 02:06 PM
Clearly, this was a a thread fail. J.J. by a landslide.

DoubleDragon
07-06-2010, 02:06 PM
JJ 6/120 easily....

JJ

He's worth (IMO) about 11 mil a year (an All Star's paycheck still) but he can ONLY thrive with a ALL STAR caliber big man (who's also a good passer) to take advantage of a good inside out game.

IMHO

Master Mind
07-06-2010, 02:09 PM
both

netsgiantsyanks
07-06-2010, 02:10 PM
the hawks are dumb as hell no way in hell joe johnson gets more than 15 mil let alone 19 mil

dominater6192
07-06-2010, 02:16 PM
JJ's contract way overpays him but Atlanta had little other choice, they'd loose their star player and would go from a 4th seed to an 8th seed or a team that misses playoffs all together if they didn't resign him. New York overpaid for a player who with his help won't even make the playoffs. The Knicks essentially paid twice the price of what David Lee would get, for a player whose production will be worse. I know Knick fans are gonna flip out on me for saying that but it's true. Amare is a below average rebounder, he had 8.9 RPG in regular season but he averaged just 6.6 RPG in the playoffs. Lee is one of the best rebounders in the league finishing 3rd in rpg, 1st in total rebounds and first in dbl dbls in the NBA. Lee is a much better passer than Amare as well. Although Amare statistically is the better scorer I do'nt know if he will be in NY, Lee ogt the majority of his points from hustle and rebounding, while Amare in Phenoix relied on scoring through the pick and role with Nash, Toney Douglas is no Nash and I have a feeling statistically Amare's scoring is gonna take a huge hit. And I know many people think that Amare is gonna set the tone for a bunch of stars to head to NY but I dont see it happening, I could be wrong, but I dont think Wade, LBJ or Bosh are going to Ny, the Knicks have eno assests to trade for a Paul, Arenas, or Parker at this point. And Free agency next year is probably gonna lack stars because of potential lock out. Knicks mad worse deal because it puts them no where near contention whereas Hawks could at least make it to playofs and probably the second round the next few years.

PatsSoxKnicks
07-06-2010, 02:20 PM
both are overpaid, and underachievers in the playoffs

Do some research and then make that statement about Amare. Have you even looked at Amare's numbers regular season vs. playoffs?

Amare is actually BETTER in the playoffs. His career playoff PER is 23.9. Regular season PER is 22.6.

His playoff numbers are 24.2 ppg, 9.2 rbg, 1.1 apg, 51.9% vs. regular season #'s of 21.4 ppg, 8.9 rbg, 1.3 apg, 54.5%

Not to mention some of the huge games he's had vs. Tim Duncan's Spurs. Yes, the same Tim Duncan that is considered one of the best defenders in NBA history.

Next time, do your research first and you won't look like a fool.

hype707
07-06-2010, 02:21 PM
boht of them are so bad

J4KOP99
07-06-2010, 02:27 PM
JJ's contract way overpays him but Atlanta had little other choice, they'd loose their star player and would go from a 4th seed to an 8th seed or a team that misses playoffs all together if they didn't resign him. New York overpaid for a player who with his help won't even make the playoffs. The Knicks essentially paid twice the price of what David Lee would get, for a player whose production will be worse. I know Knick fans are gonna flip out on me for saying that but it's true. Amare is a below average rebounder, he had 8.9 RPG in regular season but he averaged just 6.6 RPG in the playoffs. Lee is one of the best rebounders in the league finishing 3rd in

The Lakers series killed him. If you watched it, Stoudemire barely had a chance to rebound. As a lakers fan I loved it but when you actually think about it, the fact that the Suns were playing a zone absolutely killed their defensive rebounding.

Watching Amar'e play all these years I can't possibly agree with you that his production may be worse than David Lee's. I don't know where the **** all this love for Lee is coming from but once he finds himself on another team, he is in for a rude awakening. Think about the compition Amar'e has to face and then compare it to what lee saw. Then think about the team's they were on. The Knicks had no size, Lee was the only guy in the paint that could get the rebound. Amar'e had a great supporting cast.

These Lee vs. Amar'e comparisons have to stop.

themadstork
07-06-2010, 02:30 PM
Both are horrendous, but Stoudemire has some serious health questions, and that contract is not insurable. I'm thinking that at some point, it'll come back to bite NY hard.

-Stork

PatsSoxKnicks
07-06-2010, 02:34 PM
In the 03-04 season, Stephen Marbury was on the Suns instead of Nash. Amare's stats-

per 36 minutes- 20.1 ppg, 8.8 rbpg, 1.4 apg, 1.1 spg, 1.4 bpg, 47.5% shooting
His PER was 19.8 and his TS% was 53.6%.

So I suppose Marbury made Amare that year? :rolleyes:

Now in fairness, this was Amare's 2nd worst season of his career (his worst being his rookie year) but that is more likely due to the fact that it was his 2nd full season in the NBA and he hadn't hit his peak yet. Regardless, those stats show someone who was pretty good without Nash.

So no, Nash didn't make Amare. Amare had proved to be quite capable the year before Nash had gotten there. Anyone who actually watches basketball can tell that Nash hasn't "made" Amare- Nash can't make his athleticism, Nash can't make him hit a jumpshot, Nash can't make him get to the line (tho he can help), etc.

BTW, Amare's PER last year was 22.6, TS% of 61.5 vs. David Lee's 22.2 PER and 58.4 TS%. Similar stats, but Amare was slightly better. However, looking at the past couple of years, its still a good bet Amare puts up better stats than Lee. There's no way you can really argue Lee's better or he's going to be better than Amare next year.

Is Amare overpaid? Probably but someone was going to do that regardless with the amount of teams with cap space- Doesn't make it a bad signing though. He'll be 32 at the end of this contract, not that old.

Amare's not a max player but there are a lot worse contracts in the NBA than Amare's.

PatsSoxKnicks
07-06-2010, 02:38 PM
Both are horrendous, but Stoudemire has some serious health questions, and that contract is not insurable. I'm thinking that at some point, it'll come back to bite NY hard.

-Stork

Amare played 82 games last year and at a high level too. He proved he can still play despite his surgery. Over the last 4 years, he's actually played a lot of games. Just 1 season- he missed a lot of time.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/stoudam01.html

PatsSoxKnicks
07-06-2010, 02:41 PM
The Lakers series killed him. If you watched it, Stoudemire barely had a chance to rebound. As a lakers fan I loved it but when you actually think about it, the fact that the Suns were playing a zone absolutely killed their defensive rebounding.

Watching Amar'e play all these years I can't possibly agree with you that his production may be worse than David Lee's. I don't know where the **** all this love for Lee is coming from but once he finds himself on another team, he is in for a rude awakening. Think about the compition Amar'e has to face and then compare it to what lee saw. Then think about the team's they were on. The Knicks had no size, Lee was the only guy in the paint that could get the rebound. Amar'e had a great supporting cast.

These Lee vs. Amar'e comparisons have to stop.

It's not love for David Lee. Before the Knicks signed Amare, Lee wasn't really getting any love. It's hate for the Knicks. Don't know why but its def there. All of a sudden, Amare is not that great despite how great everyone thought he was in the playoffs :rolleyes:

themadstork
07-06-2010, 02:43 PM
Amare played 82 games last year and at a high level too. He proved he can still play despite his surgery. Over the last 4 years, he's actually played a lot of games. Just 1 season- he missed a lot of time.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/stoudam01.html

We'll see man. He's a big dude, another year older, and now he's not playing for a contract. It'd worry me.

-Stork

elizur
07-06-2010, 04:20 PM
We'll see man. He's a big dude, another year older, and now he's not playing for a contract. It'd worry me.

-Stork

Besides the fact that Amar'e had knee surgery then made the NBA first team the following year. Has not has problems since. He got poked in the eye, he now wears goggles. That wont happen again.

THE MTL
07-06-2010, 04:33 PM
how is it that Amar'e is getting 5yr/100m? I thought the max was 16.5m a yr?

^^^


Pay increases and not every player has the same max amount. Depends on how many years you're in the league.

Once again a Knicks fan must educate a Bulls fan! TYPICAL

knickfan33
07-06-2010, 04:47 PM
JJ is much worse, hes already 29, he's not gonna get any better, he's a second tier SG-SF.

Amare is younger, still a top PF, especially now that he is in the east.
a 6'10" player whos athletice and has an outside shot is hard to match up with, and definetly hard to find.

my only fear was that the knicks would match hawks offer for joe johnson, the amare move is a great pick-up, even though everyone seems to knock it.

Young2Kinsler
07-06-2010, 04:52 PM
JJ, just huge money, but Amare going to NY is just about the money, that team has no real shot at any success. At least Joe is doing it to stay with a contender.

Speaking of contracts, how about the best contract of the entire offseason when it's all said and done... Dirk.

LA_Raiders
07-06-2010, 05:07 PM
BOTH are aweful contracts... $20M/yr WTF??? They are $15M/yr players...

PLAYERS FAN
07-06-2010, 08:19 PM
Rashard Lewis

heattiltheend94
07-06-2010, 08:35 PM
JJ, but I have a feeling worse ones are going to follow

SA5195
07-06-2010, 08:37 PM
Joe Johnson...for now.

Jester4k0
07-06-2010, 08:52 PM
Hate to be one of the posters that post off topic, but u could have added two more contract extensions to the list.

Rudy Gay: 5 yr 82 mill----ugh

Kevin Durant: 5 yr 80 mill---hopefully this NBA stud has some outs in a couple of years.
Even now he is underpaid in my book.

sunnydayin'zona
07-07-2010, 12:10 AM
I actually think Amare is worse because he's a big man, and has the potential to breakdown faster than Johnson. Plus if the Knicks can't lure anyone else, it's going to look very silly.

i agree. he is likely to need surgery in 4 years is what we hear in phx

The Prodigy
07-07-2010, 12:28 AM
Honestly as of right now I have to say the Amare signing is worse because if they don't get another allstar level player then it was a waste. Sure they get better but not enough to really make the playoffs. And we still don't know how Amare will play without Steve Nash. The Hawks really had no other choice but to give Johnson his money. Atl east now they will stay in contention with the East and could get a lucky break and make it to the Finals. To put it frankly for all those saying Amare at this point both those teams wanted to make a move to compete for the next few years and what team came out closer to the Championship right now. The Hawks.

SANDBURG23
07-07-2010, 03:39 AM
There actually both crappy, but that's how it is.

FrenchSunsFan
07-07-2010, 04:08 AM
There not many player who sign a new contract so right now is J Johnson but all these players are more overpaid , Rashard Lewis , Luol Deng , Vince Carter ,Elton Brand ...

Russell_Roberts
07-07-2010, 07:17 AM
Joe 6/119 if thats the case. they mite as well sign me bout 2 years 13 mil. Hey they giving away money. I mite as well take some too.