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View Full Version : Why never any mention of Dirk not having a legit #2 guy?



JordansBulls
07-05-2010, 04:41 PM
When he got to the finals, his #2 guy was Josh Howard. Why don't posters ever talk about how Dirk has never had a legit #2 guy?

I bring this up because people say Dirk can't win as the best player on the team, but reality is is that he never really had a #2 guy on his teams.

Thoughts!!!

ellisgw
07-05-2010, 04:42 PM
he had steve nash for a good part of his career.

asandhu23
07-05-2010, 04:43 PM
because 1. he had an excellent overall team 2. Dallas Mavericks fans don't whine like certain other teams' fans

gbpackers12
07-05-2010, 04:43 PM
He played with Steve Nash for a while, but other than that.. :shrug: I hope they get someone to help Dirk get his ring, because he deserves one.

AddiX
07-05-2010, 04:44 PM
You might want to take a look at the rosters dirk played with throughout his career, a lack of talent is the furthest thing from the truth. He's played on some really good teams.

Sometimes things just don't work out to get the ring though.

Don't forget Finley, he was a beast back in the day. No one can say he wasnt as legit a #2 as you can ask for.

$KnicksAndKobe$
07-05-2010, 04:47 PM
He had Jamison, Kidd, Marion, Nash, Butler, Finley, and Howard. He had many second option players and good players surrounding him.

cheerio
07-05-2010, 04:47 PM
Honestly i have never really realized
I agree it is probably because his team is pretty good overall and not a single person stands out over the other

Hellcrooner
07-05-2010, 04:49 PM
lol incredibe.....

he has had 2 or 3 allstars former allstars or future alstars his whole ****ng career.


i know of other franchise dudes tht never had even ONE allstar in their teams.....

Sixerlover
07-05-2010, 04:50 PM
That man has had multiple all stars over his career, very good benches, great coaches, great ownership. Him not being able to win a title in the last 10 years is all on him IMO.

ManRam
07-05-2010, 04:53 PM
He had Nash for a while, and while he's never had an amazing #2, he's usually always had really good supporting casts with a lot of balance.

In the early 2000s, he had Finley and Nash. Finley was an two time all-star during that period, Nash was a multiple-time all-star etc. He had (aging) Van Exel and Tim Hardaway in addition to those guys in 2002, and they didn't do really anything in the playoffs. The year after they got to the conference Finals and got smacked. He had Jamison, Nash, Finley, Antoine Walker and Josh Howard in 04, which is certainly a very good supporting cast. Walker wasn't even absolutely terrible that year. That team lost in the first round.

Since then, he's had good players all around him like Terry, Stackhouse, Howard, Harris, Kidd, Butler, Marion etc.

When they got to the Finals, he didn't have an all-star with him, but he had 6 guys after him that were very consistent and all could score and defend. Howard, Terry and Harris were all stellar in the playoffs.


He's been surrounded by some very good players for most of his career. He has had all-stars, he had Steve Nash. He might have never had a Pippen, but Dirk certainly hasn't been as screwed as guys like LeBron, Wade, Chris Paul etc. in terms of supporting casts.

LTBaByyy
07-05-2010, 04:54 PM
He had Jamison, Kidd, Marion, Nash, Butler, Finley, and Howard. He had many second option players and good players surrounding him.

We have never had a LEGIT #2!!

Nash wasnt his MVP level player until he left for the suns, all star but not a legit 2

Caron, all star but not a LEGIT #2,

Finley and Howard, ehhhh same thing

Jamison was a 6th man!! how is that a legit 2?

Marion, wow lol

Kidd, is not a legit 2 with his age!!!

We have never had a legit 2 in Dallas and I pray we can do a trade for one this offseason, so we can win a title but i will be a mavs fan no matter what

and plus, superstar with just a good supporting cast never gets it done, like Lebron!! You need a legit #2

Reyes6
07-05-2010, 04:56 PM
Jason Terry was the #2 guy I think... and he has had more talent around him than any other "superstar" player. The problem is that team doesn't preach defense, but rather tries to outscore their opponent with Dirk "Caveman Fabio" Nowitzki.

Hellcrooner
07-05-2010, 04:57 PM
He had Nash for a while, and while he's never had an amazing #2, he's usually always had really good supporting casts with a lot of balance.

In the early 2000s, he had Finley and Nash. Finley was an two time all-star during that period, Nash was a multiple-time all-star etc. He had (aging) Van Exel and Tim Hardaway in addition to those guys in 2002, and they didn't do really anything in the playoffs. The year after they got to the conference Finals and got smacked. He had Jamison, Nash, Finley, Antoine Walker and Josh Howard in 04, which is certainly a very good supporting cast. Walker wasn't even absolutely terrible that year. That team lost in the first round.

Since then, he's had good players all around him like Terry, Stackhouse, Howard, Harris, Kidd, Butler, Marion etc.

When they got to the Finals, he didn't have an all-star with him, but he had 6 guys after him that were very consistent and all could score and defend. Howard, Terry and Harris were all stellar in the playoffs.


He's been surrounded by some very good players for most of his career. He has had all-stars, he had Steve Nash. He might have never had a Pippen, but Dirk certainly hasn't been as screwed as guys like LeBron, Wade, Chris Paul etc. in terms of supporting casts.

or carter in toronto....or pau in memphis-

LTBaByyy
07-05-2010, 04:58 PM
lol incredibe.....

he has had 2 or 3 allstars former allstars or future alstars his whole ****ng career.


i know of other franchise dudes tht never had even ONE allstar in their teams.....

Name them please that won a title lol

Hellcrooner
07-05-2010, 04:59 PM
Name them please lol

carter, and pau mainly

Hellcrooner
07-05-2010, 05:00 PM
add ming to the leist a always injured tmc does not count

LTBaByyy
07-05-2010, 05:03 PM
And they didnt win a title!!! Exactly, you need a Legit #2 no matter what


Lebron is a perfect example, he had all stars and then there were years he had nobodies

Aapox
07-05-2010, 05:04 PM
I gotta say the closest he's had to a number 2 legit scorer is Jason Terry, and let's face it, that's like Lebron having Mo Williams, it's just not a enough.

thekmp211
07-05-2010, 05:04 PM
here we go with my least favorite sports superlative of all time.

if this was 2002 and dirk and nash were free agents, the knicks would clear that cap space to go after signing them. get the point?

has he had a robin to his batman? no. but he has had plenty of help and a ton of very talented teams, and i am more of the inclination that he is in fact a robin himself.

VinceCarter
07-05-2010, 05:04 PM
We have never had a LEGIT #2!!

Nash wasnt his MVP level player until he left for the suns, all star but not a legit 2

Caron, all star but not a LEGIT #2,

Finley and Howard, ehhhh same thing

Jamison was a 6th man!! how is that a legit 2?

Marion, wow lol

Kidd, is not a legit 2 with his age!!!

We have never had a legit 2 in Dallas and I pray we can do a trade for one this offseason, so we can win a title but i will be a mavs fan no matter what

and plus, superstar with just a good supporting cast never gets it done, like Lebron!! You need a legit #2

WOW. Really dude. Nash and Kidd are definitely "legit" #2.

Maybe you do not understand it is a #2 not 1. Let's look at a championship example....

Lakers #2 to Kobe? Is it Gasol? I see a significant talent difference there. Moreso than Dirk compared to Kidd, even with Kidd's age.

LTBaByyy
07-05-2010, 05:08 PM
here we go with my least favorite sports superlative of all time.

if this was 2002 and dirk and nash were free agents, the knicks would clear that cap space to go after signing them. get the point?

has he had a robin to his batman? no. but he has had plenty of help and a ton of very talented teams, and i am more of the inclination that he is in fact a robin himself.

Im sorry but if you win a MVP you never shouldve been a robin

thekmp211
07-05-2010, 05:09 PM
And they didnt win a title!!! Exactly, you need a Legit #2 no matter what


Lebron is a perfect example, he had all stars and then there were years he had nobodies

no, he didn't.

mo williams is a fuax all star.

antawn jamison has only put up all star numbers on horrible teams. i like him, like his game, but only on horrible teams. in fact, he was a 6th man on dallas because his defense was so unbelievably bad. and those mavericks werent exactly stoppers.

shaq is done. z is done.

where are the all stars?

without him, that team is lottery bound and competing with jersey for the worst record in the league, period. that to me sounds like a team lacking all stars.

lebron has the weakest supporting cast of any star in cleveland. it is not even close, i cant stand arguing the point anymore. if he leaves he instantly gets better teammates. the only place that wouldn't be true is in miami if wade somehow left, a hypothetical that will never happen.

you don't need "a legit number two". you need 7 other guys who know how to play.

i challenge anyone who disagrees to explain the 2004 pistons to me.

mikantsass
07-05-2010, 05:09 PM
When he got to the finals, his #2 guy was Josh Howard. Why don't posters ever talk about how Dirk has never had a legit #2 guy?

I bring this up because people say Dirk can't win as the best player on the team, but reality is is that he never really had a #2 guy on his teams.

Thoughts!!!

Because Dirk is the #2 guy, He just never had a #1 for an extended period of time.

And Crooner, enough with the Gasol love fest.

thekmp211
07-05-2010, 05:10 PM
Im sorry but if you win a MVP you never shouldve been a robin

really?

so your pride should get in the way of your ultimate goal, which is winning a ring?

remind me to never play on a team with you.

Aapox
07-05-2010, 05:10 PM
Nash and Kidd are definitely "legit" #2.

Not quite, especially Kidd. Nash maybe, but Nash improved after he left. Kidd, meanwhile, was old and declining when he arrived. Plus Kidd is absolutely NOT a legit 2 scorer, as good of a player as he is.

LTBaByyy
07-05-2010, 05:10 PM
WOW. Really dude. Nash and Kidd are definitely "legit" #2.

Maybe you do not understand it is a #2 not 1. Let's look at a championship example....

Lakers #2 to Kobe? Is it Gasol? I see a significant talent difference there. Moreso than Dirk compared to Kidd, even with Kidd's age.

Do you watch the mavs play??? Kidd is not 24-32years old anymore

He hasnt even been the #2 on the mavs since he came to us

Its been Howard then Terry

thekmp211
07-05-2010, 05:11 PM
WOW. Really dude. Nash and Kidd are definitely "legit" #2.

Maybe you do not understand it is a #2 not 1. Let's look at a championship example....

Lakers #2 to Kobe? Is it Gasol? I see a significant talent difference there. Moreso than Dirk compared to Kidd, even with Kidd's age.

then you sir, are nuts.

pau gasol is probably the 1st or 2nd best pf in the world right now. he's obviously not kobe, but he is closer than you are giving him credit for. kidd is a 2 trick pony at this stage in his career.

LTBaByyy
07-05-2010, 05:12 PM
really?

so your pride should get in the way of your ultimate goal, which is winning a ring?

remind me to never play on a team with you.

so dirk shouldve been a robin??? Wow.

If you said NOW, then maybe i would agree with you for sure

but def not the last 7 years

DCB/LAL
07-05-2010, 05:15 PM
He's on the same boat as Lebron....but its blasphemous to use that argument for Dirk cause its only for Lebron.

PrestigeWldWde
07-05-2010, 05:18 PM
When he got to the finals, his #2 guy was Josh Howard. Why don't posters ever talk about how Dirk has never had a legit #2 guy?

I bring this up because people say Dirk can't win as the best player on the team, but reality is is that he never really had a #2 guy on his teams.

Thoughts!!!

I guess you haven't heard of Caron Butler.

JordansBulls
07-05-2010, 05:18 PM
Because Dirk is the #2 guy, He just never had a #1 for an extended period of time.

And Crooner, enough with the Gasol love fest.

How is a guy who wins league mvp a #2 guy on the team?

thekmp211
07-05-2010, 05:20 PM
so dirk shouldve been a robin??? Wow.

If you said NOW, then maybe i would agree with you for sure

but def not the last 7 years

but why not? what has he won?

he is a great individual player but he on the highest stage he crumbled under a team with a true alpha dog. in my opinion dirks lack of defense, post scoring and rebounding has always been understated because of his other incredible skills. you need to produce that stuff from the 4 spot and in those areas he has been a below average player most of his career (his defense has improved).

should karl malone have been a robin in order to win a ring? he tried once with the lakers but was more or less washed up at that point. barkley? iverson?

all of these guys are HOFers, none won as the best player on their teams. do they somehow feel vindicated by the fact that their MVP trophy proves that their lack of success wasn't their fault? no, they probably regret not throwing away their egos and fully committing to winning the team game.

i think kg or duncan would have taken some of those dallas teams all the way.

29$JerZ
07-05-2010, 05:21 PM
How is a guy who wins league mvp a #2 guy on the team?

He isn't

That's just the general opinion of him.

Idk why, I see Dirk as a #1. They just can't seem to get out the West.

iggypop123
07-05-2010, 05:21 PM
dirk is a robin trying to play the role of batman. he is going to need alot more than a #2

thekmp211
07-05-2010, 05:22 PM
How is a guy who wins league mvp a #2 guy on the team?

when his teammate is a 2-time mvp...

LTBaByyy
07-05-2010, 05:23 PM
Yes most of the time I'm a homer but lets be real, he had one of the best years in his career last year!!! He needs a legit #2 on the mavs to win a title

and our window is closed after 3 more years.

And the dude that said Caron is a legit #2, then why didnt Lebron get it done w Jamison??

Both Butler and Jamison are good #2's but LEGIT #3 options!!!!

Mavs need a LEGIT #2

cubs0707
07-05-2010, 05:25 PM
He isn't

That's just the general opinion of him.

Idk why, I see Dirk as a #1. They just can't seem to get out the West.

they made it to the finals before

Catfish1314
07-05-2010, 05:27 PM
That man has had multiple all stars over his career, very good benches, great coaches, great ownership. Him not being able to win a title in the last 10 years is all on him IMO.

I disagree. I think they just ran into better teams. With the exception of the nightmare he had against the Warriors in 2007, Dirk is routinely a beast in the playoffs. His career numbers in the postseason are better than his regular season numbers.

TEXASTITAN
07-05-2010, 05:28 PM
I lay the failure on Dirk when you consider all the good players he's had around him these past few years. Mabye he should me a more consistent #1 before people start opening threads about him getting a #2.

PrestigeWldWde
07-05-2010, 05:29 PM
when his teammate is a 2-time mvp...

.............older than Moses.

5ass
07-05-2010, 05:29 PM
i like how ppl can turn this around however way they want..
mo williams wasnt a #2 option when he was averaging 18 ppg in the 08-09 season, but in 07 when tony parker was averaging 18 ppg he was a #2 option to duncan
winning a championship isnt all about scoring its also about defense. 09 lakers, 08 celtics, 07 spurs,06 heat, 04 pistons were all great defensive teams

LTBaByyy
07-05-2010, 05:29 PM
they made it to the finals before


Thats what the thread is about, he had Howard as his #2 that year

Howard couldnt even get a team option picked up from the Wizards!! lol

If he needs a LEGIT #2 to win a title, and the answer is yes

Dirk is a top 50 NBA player of all time, how is he a #2 people?

29$JerZ
07-05-2010, 05:29 PM
they made it to the finals before

Yeah, once.

Since then they lost to an 8th seed, lost to a 7th seed,etc

That one year Wade went berserk.
They always have a stack team but can't go far.
Not sure if tha't Dirk's fault or just the team can't win in the post season.

thekmp211
07-05-2010, 05:30 PM
Yes most of the time I'm a homer but lets be real, he had one of the best years in his career last year!!! He needs a legit #2 on the mavs to win a title

and our window is closed after 3 more years.

And the dude that said Caron is a legit #2, then why didnt Lebron get it done w Jamison??

Both Butler and Jamison are good #2's but LEGIT #3 options!!!!

Mavs need a LEGIT #2

i just think of it much less as a legit two and much more so just a player of a similar caliber.

butler and jamison have never proven to be #12 options on a contender, much less #3 or #2.

cubs0707
07-05-2010, 05:31 PM
Thats what the thread is about, he had Howard as his #2 that year

Howard couldnt even get a team option picked up from the Wizards!! lol

If he needs a LEGIT #2 to win a title, and the answer is yes

Dirk is a top 50 NBA player of all time, how is he a #2 people?
if you read what i quoted he said
they cant seem to get out of the west

PrestigeWldWde
07-05-2010, 05:32 PM
Yes most of the time I'm a homer but lets be real, he had one of the best years in his career last year!!! He needs a legit #2 on the mavs to win a title

and our window is closed after 3 more years.

And the dude that said Caron is a legit #2, then why didnt Lebron get it done w Jamison??

Both Butler and Jamison are good #2's but LEGIT #3 options!!!!

Mavs need a LEGIT #2

Because Jamison isn't a #2. Cleveland tried to make him into it, but he isn't. Caron is more athletic, can beat guys off the dribble, and has a very good midrange game. He's a very good #2. The Mavs just have no other scorers on the team to help out Caron and Dirk. They have good PGs...but that's about it.

IversonIsKrazy
07-05-2010, 05:33 PM
He had Nash & Finley together for a while. Then he had JAason Terry & Josh Howard. Then he got a stacked team with, Butler, Kidd, Terry, Marion, Barea... and lost first round to a team who got swept next round, to a team who lost as well lol.

Dirk is a real good player, and deserves his ring. He has had perfect teams to surround him, the problem is that his surroundings have always choked in big-time games

thekmp211
07-05-2010, 05:35 PM
i like how ppl can turn this around however way they want..
mo williams wasnt a #2 option when he was averaging 18 ppg in the 08-09 season, but in 07 when tony parker was averaging 18 ppg he was a #2 option to duncan
winning a championship isnt all about scoring its also about defense. 09 lakers, 08 celtics, 07 spurs,06 heat, 04 pistons were all great defensive teams

come on. chauncey billups has similar stats to mo too, are they as good as one another?

your second point makes your first moot.

thekmp211
07-05-2010, 05:36 PM
Because Jamison isn't a #2. Cleveland tried to make him into it, but he isn't. Caron is more athletic, can beat guys off the dribble, and has a very good midrange game. He's a very good #2. The Mavs just have no other scorers on the team to help out Caron and Dirk. They have good PGs...but that's about it.

when has caron proven to be a great number 2 on a good team?

PrestigeWldWde
07-05-2010, 05:37 PM
when has caron proven to be a great number 2 on a good team?

HE HAS NEVER BEEN ON A GOOD TEAM!!!

LTBaByyy
07-05-2010, 05:37 PM
That IversonisCrazy dude said it the best!!

The blame shouldnt be on Dirk, his supporting cast always choke in the playoffs

while dirk always has better stats in the playoffs than the regular season

LTBaByyy
07-05-2010, 05:38 PM
when has caron proven to be a great number 2 on a good team?

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you contradict yourself,

Dirk hasnt had a LEGIT #2!!

Fargus
07-05-2010, 05:39 PM
He had Nash & Finley together for a while. Then he had JAason Terry & Josh Howard. Then he got a stacked team with, Butler, Kidd, Terry, Marion, Barea... and lost first round to a team who got swept next round, to a team who lost as well lol.

Stacked? a well past his prime Marion, a shell of his former self Jason Terry, a 75 year old point guard Jason Kidd, Not sure why you are even mentioning JJ Barrea here, and no complaints with Caron Butler.

C_Mund
07-05-2010, 05:40 PM
Here's a better question...
why do people think that you HAVE to win a championship in order to be considered a great player? The NBA is a league of dynasties. There's really only two or three players that will lead a team to championships in most generations. The lakers, bulls and spurs have won what, like 15 of the last 20 championships?
Dirk is a hall of fame player, and perhaps one of the most unique in basketball history. That's good enough for me.
If he DOES win a ring, that's just icing on the cake.

jackdawson
07-05-2010, 05:42 PM
Because Dirk would make an excellent 2nd fiddle to a superstar. And that's the only way I see him winning a title. He can't win as the man. PERIOD.

LTBaByyy
07-05-2010, 05:42 PM
When Nash played with Dallas his years avg like 15 pts and 6 assist!!!!!

Devin Harris did better than that come on now

When nash went to the suns, thats when he went off!!!!!! First year there 11 ast

Swashcuff
07-05-2010, 05:43 PM
I have a question.... by your guys' standards did Tim Duncan every have a legit #2. Because if you ask me Dirk has had just as good if not better supporting casts that Duncan but no one never made a thread about Duncan never had a "legit" #2 and yet still he has 4 Rings. Popovich also being a big reason for TD's success as well.

Human FlameShld
07-05-2010, 05:44 PM
he had steve nash for a good part of his career.

And Finley was a potential star when he was with Nash and Dirk.

Human FlameShld
07-05-2010, 05:45 PM
I have a question.... by your guys' standards did Tim Duncan every have a legit #2. Because if you ask me Dirk has had just as good if not better supporting casts that Duncan but no one never made a thread about Duncan never had a "legit" #2 and yet still he has 4 Rings. Popovich also being a big reason for TD's success as well.



David Robinson


Tony Parker is not a bad number 2 although he is probably more of a 3rd option.

Manu Ginóbili, Stephen Jackson

Swashcuff
07-05-2010, 05:46 PM
Here's a better question...
why do people think that you HAVE to win a championship in order to be considered a great player? The NBA is a league of dynasties. There's really only two or three players that will lead a team to championships in most generations. The lakers, bulls and spurs have won what, like 15 of the last 20 championships?
Dirk is a hall of fame player, and perhaps one of the most unique in basketball history. That's good enough for me.
If he DOES win a ring, that's just icing on the cake.

thats all i read and automatically i said GREAT POST

:clap::clap::clap:

the NBA is a league of Dynasties... so true and quite frankly not everyone is going to get a shot. Its a team sport that has been dominated by a three teams in particular

loufor2
07-05-2010, 05:47 PM
We have never had a LEGIT #2!!

Nash wasnt his MVP level player until he left for the suns, all star but not a legit 2

Caron, all star but not a LEGIT #2,

Finley and Howard, ehhhh same thing

Jamison was a 6th man!! how is that a legit 2?

Marion, wow lol

Kidd, is not a legit 2 with his age!!!

We have never had a legit 2 in Dallas and I pray we can do a trade for one this offseason, so we can win a title but i will be a mavs fan no matter what

and plus, superstar with just a good supporting cast never gets it done, like Lebron!! You need a legit #2

1. If Nash was MVP when they played together, wouldn't he have been the number 1 guy...?

2. I don't get how you can be an all star small forward and not be considered a legit #2. There is something very wrong with that.

3. He has had incredible "overall" teams too which great depth, talent, and management.

You can;t expect him to get a number 2 like Pippen. That is like have 2 number 1's!

MacFitz92
07-05-2010, 05:47 PM
He had Jamison, Kidd, Marion, Nash, Butler, Finley, and Howard. He had many second option players and good players surrounding him.

None of those guys are legit #2 guys except for maybe Finley. Marion, are you joking? Get the **** out of here. Marion is barely a #5 guy anymore.

LTBaByyy
07-05-2010, 05:48 PM
I mean we do play in the western conference where a guy named Kobe Bryant haha

I wish we were in the eastern conference like lebron and wade :/

We would be in the finals atleast 3 more times

loufor2
07-05-2010, 05:49 PM
Yes most of the time I'm a homer but lets be real, he had one of the best years in his career last year!!! He needs a legit #2 on the mavs to win a title

and our window is closed after 3 more years.

And the dude that said Caron is a legit #2, then why didnt Lebron get it done w Jamison??

Both Butler and Jamison are good #2's but LEGIT #3 options!!!!

Mavs need a LEGIT #2


what legit number 2 do you need? DO you want Kobe Bryant or something. Terry, butler, marion, and kidd are worthy teammates.

Jenceman
07-05-2010, 05:49 PM
no, he didn't.

mo williams is a fuax all star.

antawn jamison has only put up all star numbers on horrible teams. i like him, like his game, but only on horrible teams. in fact, he was a 6th man on dallas because his defense was so unbelievably bad. and those mavericks werent exactly stoppers.

shaq is done. z is done.

where are the all stars?

without him, that team is lottery bound and competing with jersey for the worst record in the league, period. that to me sounds like a team lacking all stars.

lebron has the weakest supporting cast of any star in cleveland. it is not even close, i cant stand arguing the point anymore. if he leaves he instantly gets better teammates. the only place that wouldn't be true is in miami if wade somehow left, a hypothetical that will never happen.

you don't need "a legit number two". you need 7 other guys who know how to play.

i challenge anyone who disagrees to explain the 2004 pistons to me.

You bring up an anomaly as your point? Cmon man, you know that's the exception not the rule.

LTBaByyy
07-05-2010, 05:50 PM
1. If Nash was MVP when they played together, wouldn't he have been the number 1 guy...?

2. I don't get how you can be an all star small forward and not be considered a legit #2. There is something very wrong with that.

3. He has had incredible "overall" teams too which great depth, talent, and management.

You can;t expect him to get a number 2 like Pippen. That is like have 2 number 1's!


WOW. NASH WON MVPs WITH THE SUNS!!!!! :facepalm:

When Nash played with Dallas his years avg like 15 pts and 6 assist!!!!!

Devin Harris did better than that come on now

When nash went to the suns, thats when he went off!!!!!! First year there 11 ast

Swashcuff
07-05-2010, 05:51 PM
David Robinson


Tony Parker is not a bad number 2 although he is probably more of a 3rd option.

Manu Ginóbili, Stephen Jackson

What..... David Robinson was way past his prime and was no longer even seen as a number two on that team. Manu and SJack equate to Terry and JHoward. And Parker is not a "legit" number 2. Try again.

loufor2
07-05-2010, 05:52 PM
I mean we do play in the western conference where a guy named Kobe Bryant haha

I wish we were in the eastern conference like lebron and wade :/

We would be in the finals atleast 3 more times

There will be even more of a power-shift after all of these F.A's sign/stay in the east.

Reguardless, I don't think this aging Mavs team could compete with Orlando, Boston, Or a team that gets two superstars.

MacFitz92
07-05-2010, 05:53 PM
1. If Nash was MVP when they played together, wouldn't he have been the number 1 guy...?

2. I don't get how you can be an all star small forward and not be considered a legit #2. There is something very wrong with that.

3. He has had incredible "overall" teams too which great depth, talent, and management.

You can;t expect him to get a number 2 like Pippen. That is like have 2 number 1's!

1. Nash is a faciliatator first.
2. Butler came to Dallas to be the #2 guy, but he truly never was.
3. Incredible? Talent? He had guys like any of the other playoff teams.

Human FlameShld
07-05-2010, 05:53 PM
Here's a better question...
why do people think that you HAVE to win a championship in order to be considered a great player? The NBA is a league of dynasties. There's really only two or three players that will lead a team to championships in most generations. The lakers, bulls and spurs have won what, like 15 of the last 20 championships?
Dirk is a hall of fame player, and perhaps one of the most unique in basketball history. That's good enough for me.
If he DOES win a ring, that's just icing on the cake.


Great post.

MJ is debatably the greatest player ever I don't think anyone can make an argument for him not being 1, 2, or 3 all time.

He won 0 rings without Scotty Pippen. With Scotty Pippen he won 6.

So if you want to say that championships are the only factor that can make a player elite than you have to say the MJ is not debatably the best player ever if he didn't play with Pippen, because he would not have beaten the Knicks in the playoffs let alone won titles. Which I think we can all agree would be a fairly ridiculous statement.

MacFitz92
07-05-2010, 05:54 PM
There will be even more of a power-shift after all of these F.A's sign/stay in the east.

Reguardless, I don't think this aging Mavs team could compete with Orlando, Boston, Or a team that gets two superstars.

Are you joking?

loufor2
07-05-2010, 05:56 PM
WOW. NASH WON MVPs WITH THE SUNS!!!!! :facepalm:

When Nash played with Dallas his years avg like 15 pts and 6 assist!!!!!

Devin Harris did better than that come on now

When nash went to the suns, thats when he went off!!!!!! First year there 11 ast

I know he won it with the Suns. Calm down. I was saying hypothetically, if he had been MVP on the Mavs he would have been considered there #1 player. And yes he was averaging 15 and 6...besides the 2 seasons he averaged 18 and 7. The point is, Dirk will never win one unless he gets another number 1. Because all of these great number two options don't seem to be doing it.

Thanks for ignoring all of my other points and trying to point out my error which was not actually an error.

loufor2
07-05-2010, 05:58 PM
Are you joking?

Not at all. They lost to the 7th seeded Spurs who then proceeded to get thumped by San Antonio if you don;t remember correctly. While the West had great depth, the East had just as strong if not stronger teams at the top...with an exception of the lakers.

Jenceman
07-05-2010, 06:00 PM
I mean we do play in the western conference where a guy named Kobe Bryant haha

I wish we were in the eastern conference like lebron and wade :/

We would be in the finals atleast 3 more times

How many times have the Lakers actually eliminated the Mavericks? :eyebrow:

MacFitz92
07-05-2010, 06:01 PM
I know he won it with the Suns. Calm down. I was saying hypothetically, if he had been MVP on the Mavs he would have been considered there #1 player. And yes he was averaging 15 and 6...besides the 2 seasons he averaged 18 and 7. The point is, Dirk will never win one unless he gets another number 1. Because all of these great number two options don't seem to be doing it.

Thanks for ignoring all of my other points and trying to point out my error which was not actually an error.

What do you think you are, a damn houdini?

Dirk is more than capable of winning a 'ship being the #1 guy.

Sixerlover
07-05-2010, 06:03 PM
I have a question for Mavs fans. Name who you see being a #2 guy beside Dirk and them winning a championship together.

loufor2
07-05-2010, 06:04 PM
1. Nash is a faciliatator first.
2. Butler came to Dallas to be the #2 guy, but he truly never was.
3. Incredible? Talent? He had guys like any of the other playoff teams.

1. Are we talking about a number 1 scoring option....? Monta Ellis averages 25 ppg on a 20 win team. Nash can be the best player on the floor without even scoring.
2. Butler may not have cicked with you guys, but I don't know that many better players in the league who would be considered great number 2 options.
3. You guys have a 6 man of the year, MVP, 3x all star in Marion, 2x all star in butler, HOFer in kidd, and a good big man in Haywood. Thats alot more than the trailblazers, jazz etc could say. I understand that they are not all in their prime. But they are still very good players and the incredible amount of experience should have helped.

LTBaByyy
07-05-2010, 06:04 PM
How many times have the Lakers actually eliminated the Mavericks? :eyebrow:


Seedings!!!! That has a lot to do with stuff

We were the #2 ya know...and lakers were #1 last year

seedings mean a lot in the playoffs

loufor2
07-05-2010, 06:04 PM
I have a question for Mavs fans. Name who you see being a #2 guy beside Dirk and them winning a championship together.

x2

SANDBURG23
07-05-2010, 06:05 PM
There has plenty of talent around him through out his career, they benn close plaenty of times haqd have been serious contenders for a while now. Remember the 80's & 90's when this team was a joke. Not all players get to win a title, there is a bunch of great players that had great support that never won. Thanks to Jordan, Olajuwon and Robinson. It hard to win a title. Amazing stat only 8 diffrent teams have won the NBA title since 1980. Also if one of these 8 teams didn't win the titel over over 50% of the time the are the losing team. It's sort of amazing.

If you want to win a title your best off being a Celtic, Laker, Piston or Spur. The last 30 says these 4 teams are the only ones that can put together diffrent championship teams. Bulls might join them soon.

MacFitz92
07-05-2010, 06:06 PM
Not at all. They lost to the 7th seeded Spurs who then proceeded to get thumped by San Antonio if you don;t remember correctly. While the West had great depth, the East had just as strong if not stronger teams at the top...with an exception of the lakers.

I clearly bolded Boston and how you described Dallas as old. What do you have double standards? You obviously have bias towards the Mavs, I don't know why you want to bring up them getting knocked out by the Spurs. At least they were there :shrug:.

By the way, whenever the Mavs and Spurs meet, seeding doesn't matter, it is going to be a dog fight the entire series. Last year Dallas knocked out SA as a 6 seed.

LTBaByyy
07-05-2010, 06:06 PM
1. Are we talking about a number 1 scoring option....? Monta Ellis averages 25 ppg on a 20 win team. Nash can be the best player on the floor without even scoring.
2. Butler may not have cicked with you guys, but I don't know that many better players in the league who would be considered great number 2 options.
3. You guys have a 6 man of the year, MVP, 3x all star in Marion, 2x all star in butler, HOFer in kidd, and a good big man in Haywood. Thats alot more than the trailblazers, jazz etc could say. I understand that they are not all in their prime. But they are still very good players and the incredible amount of experience should have helped.

Just like lebron shouldve won with all his former all stars on his team

Dont knock down dirk for his other teammates choking in the playoffs

Jenceman
07-05-2010, 06:06 PM
Seriously, Dirk has been on a number of stacked teams. How can Mavs fans go from talking about how great their team was a couple months ago, how absolutely stacked they were, and when they get eliminated in the first round(again!), then the team was no good? Not enough of a supporting cast anymore?

Please :rolleyes:

Jenceman
07-05-2010, 06:08 PM
Seedings!!!! That has a lot to do with stuff

We were the #2 ya know...and lakers were #1 last year

seedings mean a lot in the playoffs

2007?

No excuse in losing to a 7 or an 8 seed...

loufor2
07-05-2010, 06:08 PM
What do you think you are, a damn houdini?

Dirk is more than capable of winning a 'ship being the #1 guy.

I was being sarcastic because you guys "say" you can't seem to find a number 2 guy.

I'm not disagreeing with the comment in bold...but it has not happened yet.

SportsFanatic10
07-05-2010, 06:08 PM
Im sorry but if you win a MVP you never shouldve been a robin

LOL Dirk's mvp is a JOKE! he sucked against the Warriors and it was embarrassing for the NBA to present it to him after that!

Not to mention his disappearing act against Miami in 06...hes a robin plain and simple.

rufo4100
07-05-2010, 06:08 PM
I think Dirk has always had pretty decent help around him. Mavs usually have a solid starting lineup, although no #2 stud.

Jaji
07-05-2010, 06:09 PM
When he got to the finals, his #2 guy was Josh Howard. Why don't posters ever talk about how Dirk has never had a legit #2 guy?

I bring this up because people say Dirk can't win as the best player on the team, but reality is is that he never really had a #2 guy on his teams.

Thoughts!!!

Nash, Steve.

Finley, Michael.

Not to mention the however many All-Stars who have stopped through Dallas.

Jenceman
07-05-2010, 06:09 PM
I clearly bolded Boston and how you described Dallas as old. What do you have double standards? You obviously have bias towards the Mavs, I don't know why you want to bring up them getting knocked out by the Spurs. At least they were there :shrug:.

By the way, whenever the Mavs and Spurs meet, seeding doesn't matter, it is going to be a dog fight the entire series. Last year Dallas knocked out SA as a 6 seed.

Weren't the Spurs missing Ginobli?

LTBaByyy
07-05-2010, 06:09 PM
I have a question for Mavs fans. Name who you see being a #2 guy beside Dirk and them winning a championship together.


Joe Johnson!!!! They were trying to trade for him a couple weeks ago

Dont be mad the 76ers have a lot of #3 options on their team

thekmp211
07-05-2010, 06:10 PM
You bring up an anomaly as your point? Cmon man, you know that's the exception not the rule.

you might be misunderstanding my point.

there are very few players in the league that can carry a championship team as a no-questions number one option. even those players need compliments and depth on their team to be successful.

the OP was wondering why dirk is never mentioned as a star who hasn't gotten his fair shake at a title.

my point was that, imo, dirk is miscast as a clear cut no questions number one option because there really aren't very many of them. many guys waste their careers because they are convinced that they are meant to be the alpha dog.

i brought up the pistons precisely because they buck the usual trend. none of their guys were ever considered legit number ones or twos or threes. some werent even considered legit nba players. how did they manage to beat a team full of individual performers?

the concept of legit 1s and 2s and 3s is so dumb to me. there are a handful of guys that are alpha dogs, surefire bets to be the best player on any team. the rest of them? could fit any role, depending on the team.

chauncey billups was the best player on that pistons team, a championship team. it doesnt make him automatically a surefire legit number one option in the league. it's all relative.

DCB/LAL
07-05-2010, 06:10 PM
Just like lebron shouldve won with all his former all stars on his team

Dont knock down dirk for his other teammates choking in the playoffs

BLASPHEMY!!! Lebron doesn't have the same rules man.

LTBaByyy
07-05-2010, 06:10 PM
I think Dirk has always had pretty decent help around him. Mavs usually have a solid starting lineup, although no #2 stud.

:clap:

loufor2
07-05-2010, 06:11 PM
I clearly bolded Boston and how you described Dallas as old. What do you have double standards? You obviously have bias towards the Mavs, I don't know why you want to bring up them getting knocked out by the Spurs. At least they were there :shrug:.

By the way, whenever the Mavs and Spurs meet, seeding doesn't matter, it is going to be a dog fight the entire series. Last year Dallas knocked out SA as a 6 seed.

nice excuses.

I have no bias against them.

My bad, I didn't see that you bolded Boston.

MacFitz92
07-05-2010, 06:12 PM
1. Are we talking about a number 1 scoring option....? Monta Ellis averages 25 ppg on a 20 win team. Nash can be the best player on the floor without even scoring.
2. Butler may not have cicked with you guys, but I don't know that many better players in the league who would be considered great number 2 options.
3. You guys have a 6 man of the year, MVP, 3x all star in Marion, 2x all star in butler, HOFer in kidd, and a good big man in Haywood. Thats alot more than the trailblazers, jazz etc could say. I understand that they are not all in their prime. But they are still very good players and the incredible amount of experience should have helped.

Ok the MVP is Dirk, Marion is not an all star anymore for a reason, Butler isn't an all star anymore, Kidd obviously isn't in his prime, Haywood is good.

I'm not going to spend anymore time downgrading my team. The Mavericks are one player away from being a damn good team, they just need a consistent #2 guy, and we'll win it all ;)

LTBaByyy
07-05-2010, 06:12 PM
BLASPHEMY!!! Lebron doesn't have the same rules man.

If you were smart you would get that Im saying dont knock down an individual for his teams play!!! Im not saying whos the better player dude lol

Lebron 2 MVPs went to the finals- his team choked
Dirk MVP went to the finals- his team choked

MacFitz92
07-05-2010, 06:13 PM
nice excuses.
I have no bias against them.

My bad, I didn't see that you bolded Boston.

What excuses?

Jenceman
07-05-2010, 06:14 PM
you might be misunderstanding my point.

there are very few players in the league that can carry a championship team as a no-questions number one option. even those players need compliments and depth on their team to be successful.

the OP was wondering why dirk is never mentioned as a star who hasn't gotten his fair shake at a title.

my point was that, imo, dirk is miscast as a clear cut no questions number one option because there really aren't very many of them. many guys waste their careers because they are convinced that they are meant to be the alpha dog.

i brought up the pistons precisely because they buck the usual trend. none of their guys were ever considered legit number ones or twos or threes. some werent even considered legit nba players. how did they manage to beat a team full of individual performers?

the concept of legit 1s and 2s and 3s is so dumb to me. there are a handful of guys that are alpha dogs, surefire bets to be the best player on any team. the rest of them? could fit any role, depending on the team.

chauncey billups was the best player on that pistons team, a championship team. it doesnt make him automatically a surefire legit number one option in the league. it's all relative.

Ah I see now. I was confused on your point.

Sixerlover
07-05-2010, 06:14 PM
Joe Johnson!!!! They were trying to trade for him a couple weeks ago

Dont be mad the 76ers have a lot of #3 options on their team

Why bring the Sixers into this? We have just as many rings AND finals appearances over the last 10 years as you do anyway.. So that's irrelevant.

Joe Johnson is just as much of a choke artist in the playoffs. Those two wouldn't top a Lakers or Boston team.

MacFitz92
07-05-2010, 06:14 PM
I have a question for Mavs fans. Name who you see being a #2 guy beside Dirk and them winning a championship together.

Andre Iguodala.

loufor2
07-05-2010, 06:14 PM
Just like lebron shouldve won with all his former all stars on his team

Dont knock down dirk for his other teammates choking in the playoffs

Lebron has never has a supporting cast as good as Dirks. I don't even think that is arguable.

thekmp211
07-05-2010, 06:15 PM
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you contradict yourself,

Dirk hasnt had a LEGIT #2!!


dude he has. steve nash and finley were great players. some would argue the why nash didnt win with dirk (insinuating nash as the first option)

he has had mor talent around him than a lot fo the stars. just because i think caron butler is overrated doesnt mean i agree with the greater point.

loufor2
07-05-2010, 06:15 PM
Andre Iguodala.

lol, you can have him.

Angel2Maverick
07-05-2010, 06:16 PM
on a championship team Caron is a very good #3 but Dirk either needs a legit 2 or Dirk becomes the robin but I dont see that happening. Plus Dirk was the 3rd option on the team of Michael finely and Steve so Dirk didnt get the chance to blossom until they both left and then he immediately became Dallas' 1#

Chronz
07-05-2010, 06:17 PM
add ming to the leist a always injured tmc does not count

shouldnt it be the other way around?

loufor2
07-05-2010, 06:18 PM
What excuses?

Saying the seeding doesn't matter, its always a dog fight. That is an excuse. You contradicted another Mav's fan who was saying seeding does count when he was arguing with a lakers fan. C'mon son!

DCB/LAL
07-05-2010, 06:19 PM
If you were smart you would get that Im saying dont knock down an individual for his teams play!!! Im not saying whos the better player dude lol

Lebron 2 MVPs went to the finals- his team choked
Dirk MVP went to the finals- his team choked

Both Lebron and Dirk on the same boat.....both have had talent around them and the same excuses made for Lebron can be made for Dirk.


And please dont come at me with this "dont knock down an individual for his teams play" BS cause its the individuals job to be a leader as both Lebron and Dirk are thought to be but really aren't and being a Laker fan that whole "dont knock down an individual for his teams play" is laughable dont wanna bring Kobe in this but when he wasn't winning everyone would blame him in case you dont remember so get that BS out of here.

BULLSFAN0810
07-05-2010, 06:19 PM
he needed a Downlow post player...how you gon have a high post and no low post scoring.... when they lost Nash they became exposed. Nash made up for low post scoring by getting ez baskets for ppl. once you lose some1 of NASH'S CALIBUR you need to compensate for that and Dallas didnt. Nash got him wide open shots...and without a talent like NASh you must do it the old fashion way...low post player gets high post and perimeter players open shots...................................BASICALLY HE SHOULDA GOT SHAQ WHEN THEY HAD THE CHANCE AND GOT THE RING.....HE PASSED... RULE #1 WIN NOW IF YOU CAN.... SHAQ WENT TO MIA AND WON 1 THEN GOT TRADED AWAY

MacFitz92
07-05-2010, 06:20 PM
lol, you can have him.

Without taking on Brand's contract ;)

loufor2
07-05-2010, 06:22 PM
Ok the MVP is Dirk, Marion is not an all star anymore for a reason, Butler isn't an all star anymore, Kidd obviously isn't in his prime, Haywood is good.

I'm not going to spend anymore time downgrading my team. The Mavericks are one player away from being a damn good team, they just need a consistent #2 guy, and we'll win it all ;)

SMH.

The last statement in the bold is obnoxious. That is what this whole thread and this argument is about, and you just post debatable and disagreeable things and then think your right. w.e bro.

MacFitz92
07-05-2010, 06:22 PM
Saying the seeding doesn't matter, its always a dog fight. That is an excuse. You contradicted another Mav's fan who was saying seeding does count when he was arguing with a lakers fan. C'mon son!

Seeding doesn't matter when it comes to Mavs-Spurs. Just like BCS ranking doesn't matter when it comes to Texas-OU football game.

loufor2
07-05-2010, 06:23 PM
Without taking on Brand's contract ;)

maybe :p

Sixerlover
07-05-2010, 06:23 PM
Andre Iguodala.

take him. Just give us Dampier's 13 mil expiring, a 2012 unprotected 1st and a young big man

loufor2
07-05-2010, 06:25 PM
Seeding doesn't matter when it comes to Mavs-Spurs. Just like BCS ranking doesn't matter when it comes to Texas-OU football game.

So you think if they would have beat the Spurs, they could have beat the Suns? Its possible, but it can't be argued lol.

Swashcuff
07-05-2010, 06:25 PM
Both Lebron and Dirk on the same boat.....both have had talent around them and the same excuses made for Lebron can be made for Dirk.


And please dont come at me with this "dont knock down an individual for his teams play" BS cause its the individuals job to be a leader as both Lebron and Dirk are thought to be but really aren't and being a Laker fan that whole "dont knock down an individual for his teams play" is laughable dont wanna bring Kobe in this but when he wasn't winning everyone would blame him in case you dont remember so get that BS out of here.

ALA Tim Duncan.... never really had a LEGIT #2 but yet still he's got the hardware that both those guys don't

MacFitz92
07-05-2010, 06:26 PM
take him. Just give us Dampier's 13 mil expiring, a 2012 unprotected 1st and a young big man

Can't give the young big man. Damp, 1st, and Barea. He's big for a horse jockey :).

But all this is if Kidd and Dirk can't recruit Wade or LeBron.

MacFitz92
07-05-2010, 06:26 PM
ALA Tim Duncan.... never really had a LEGIT #2 but yet still he's got the hardware that both those guys don't

David Robinson? Tony Parker? Manu?

ChiSox219
07-05-2010, 06:27 PM
Because Jamison isn't a #2. Cleveland tried to make him into it, but he isn't. Caron is more athletic, can beat guys off the dribble, and has a very good midrange game. He's a very good #2. The Mavs just have no other scorers on the team to help out Caron and Dirk. They have good PGs...but that's about it.

Caron brings some positives to the table but he is a #3 on a title team, hell he'd be number #5 or 6 on the Lakers squad depending what your opinion is of Ron Artest.

Jenceman
07-05-2010, 06:30 PM
Caron brings some positives to the table but he is a #3 on a title team, hell he'd be number #5 or 6 on the Lakers squad depending what your opinion is of Ron Artest.

He'd easily be the Lakers number 3 option....

DCB/LAL
07-05-2010, 06:31 PM
David Robinson? Tony Parker? Manu?

Robinson was how old? Fine.....


Kidd,Terry,Butler,Howard,Finley(younger) etc..... Only difference is Duncan won ships Dirk has not.

blah-blah
07-05-2010, 06:33 PM
because hes always had a good core around him

MacFitz92
07-05-2010, 06:34 PM
Robinson was how old? Fine.....


Kidd,Terry,Butler,Howard,Finley(younger) etc..... Only difference is Duncan won ships Dirk has not.

Well Kidd and Butler aren't in their prime. Howard was always injured. Finley was good. Terry was arguably why we lost this year's series.

Dirk and Duncan are both HOF PFs. Duncan's ships will put him above Dirk.

ChiSox219
07-05-2010, 06:36 PM
He'd easily be the Lakers number 3 option....

Offensively? I'd give the ball to Gasol, Kobe, and Bynum first. Depending on the match up, also go with Odom.

Defensively, Artest is so much better that he makes up for the gap between his and Caron's offense.

When I think "#2 guy", I include a players overall game, not just his offense, that may be why we differ.

LTBaByyy
07-05-2010, 06:38 PM
Championships doesnt knock an individuals greatness

Miller, Barkley, Malone, Stockton, now post mavericks Nash basically! Dirk is still a top 50 NBA basketball player of all time!!!!

They already have him as that like the late 30's i think 38 and Nash was like 39

Swashcuff
07-05-2010, 06:38 PM
David Robinson? Tony Parker? Manu?

Dude Robinson was on his last legs when TD came by your guys' standards he wouldn't have been considered a "legit" (*note the word LEGIT) #2.... Parker and Manu were on the same level as Nash, Finely, Terry and Josh Howard was at one time or the other while playing along side Dirk.

MacFitz92
07-05-2010, 06:45 PM
Dude Robinson was on his last legs when TD came by your guys' standards he wouldn't have been considered a "legit" (*note the word LEGIT) #2.... Parker and Manu were on the same level as Nash, Finely, Terry and Josh Howard was at one time or the other while playing along side Dirk.

In '99 he was still solid. Terry is inconsistent in the playoffs, Howard was always injured. Finley and Nash were good.

MacFitz92
07-05-2010, 06:46 PM
Dude Robinson was on his last legs when TD came by your guys' standards he wouldn't have been considered a "legit" (*note the word LEGIT) #2.... Parker and Manu were on the same level as Nash, Finely, Terry and Josh Howard was at one time or the other while playing along side Dirk.

And another thing, Tim Duncan is the best Power Forward of all time.

MFFL==FML
07-05-2010, 06:46 PM
then you sir, are nuts.

pau gasol is probably the 1st or 2nd best pf in the world right now. he's obviously not kobe, but he is closer than you are giving him credit for. kidd is a 2 trick pony at this stage in his career.

Dirk Nowitzki is the best PF in the world.... Lakers would forget all about Pau if Dallas wanted to trade him straight up.

Vidball
07-05-2010, 06:47 PM
I'm originally from L.A. but moved to the Dallas area in March--Dirk not having a #2 is ALL THEY TALK ABOUT HERE

MFFL==FML
07-05-2010, 06:48 PM
How is a guy who wins league mvp a #2 guy on the team?

Because he is white and not a d-bag. The majority of NBA fans are ********.

Swashcuff
07-05-2010, 06:51 PM
In '99 he was still solid. Terry is inconsistent in the playoffs, Howard was always injured. Finley and Nash were good.

So was David Robinson in 99.


And another thing, Tim Duncan is the best Power Forward of all time.

do disputing that dude but comparatively Dirk has had a supporting cast which is on par with TD but yet no one has made a thread about TD.

Chronz
07-05-2010, 06:52 PM
He'd easily be the Lakers number 3 option....
Pau, Kobe, Bynum all more effective go to options

DCB/LAL
07-05-2010, 06:53 PM
Championships doesnt knock an individuals greatness

Miller, Barkley, Malone, Stockton, now post mavericks Nash basically! Dirk is still a top 50 NBA basketball player of all time!!!!

They already have him as that like the late 30's i think 38 and Nash was like 39

Actually it does knock an idividuals greatness....while those guys are great how much greater would they be in peoples eyes had they won championships?

You can't tell me that had Stockton and Malone beat MJ that it wouldn't of added to their greatness. Or had Miller and Barkley won rings they'd be higher up the list on the all-time greats list. Fact is championships do affect player greatness take MJ, Bill Russell, Stockon, Malone etc... as your examples.

DCB/LAL
07-05-2010, 06:58 PM
And another thing, Tim Duncan is the best Power Forward of all time.

Thats because of how he was able to lead his teams to championships. TD was never flashy or any of that but the reason he is the best PF of all time is because HE WON take KG for example what was the reason many said TD was better than KG?

Chronz
07-05-2010, 07:00 PM
Actually it does knock an idividuals greatness....while those guys are great how much greater would they be in peoples eyes had they won championships?

You can't tell me that had Stockton and Malone beat MJ that it wouldn't of added to their greatness. Or had Miller and Barkley won rings they'd be higher up the list on the all-time greats list. Fact is championships do affect player greatness take MJ, Bill Russell, Stockon, Malone etc... as your examples.
Your very confusing to follow. What are your examples suppose to show?


Thats because of how he was able to lead his teams to championships. TD was never flashy or any of that but the reason he is the best PF of all time is because HE WON take KG for example what was the reason many said TD was better than KG?
My guess would be his performance and impact on the game. I didnt need to see TD win titles to know he was better than KG.

Chronz
07-05-2010, 07:03 PM
So was David Robinson in 99.



do disputing that dude but comparatively Dirk has had a supporting cast which is on par with TD but yet no one has made a thread about TD.
Yea but wouldnt you expect a lesser player to need more help to win a title? And what do you mean he was always injured, in 99 D-Rob was still a top10 player.

Ebbs
07-05-2010, 07:04 PM
he had steve nash for a good part of his career.


He played with Steve Nash for a while, but other than that.. :shrug: I hope they get someone to help Dirk get his ring, because he deserves one.

Nash left before his best years. Finley was close but was never a real #2.

DCB/LAL
07-05-2010, 07:04 PM
Your very confusing to follow. What are your examples suppose to show?

That Championships affect a players greatness is what im trying to show obviously not doing a good job.

He said they dont I say they do.

ChiSox219
07-05-2010, 07:05 PM
My guess would be his performance and impact on the game. I didnt need to see TD win titles to know he was better than KG.

Where do you have KG among PFs all-time?

drobe86
07-05-2010, 07:07 PM
This is comical. I can't believe people are saying Dirk should have won rings with the likes of Josh Howard or Jason Terry. When Kobe has the luxury of playing with guys like Pau Gasol, Ron Artest, Lamar Odom. Or how about Boston with Pierce, Allen, and Garnett. Or how about the Detroit team that won in '04 with the likes of Billups, Sheed, Prince, Hamilton, and etc. Or maybe the spurs teams with the likes of Duncan, ginobili, and Tony Parker. 1 star and a bunch of average to above average players won't win you a championship.

Hellcrooner
07-05-2010, 07:07 PM
There has plenty of talent around him through out his career, they benn close plaenty of times haqd have been serious contenders for a while now. Remember the 80's & 90's when this team was a joke. Not all players get to win a title, there is a bunch of great players that had great support that never won. Thanks to Jordan, Olajuwon and Robinson. It hard to win a title. Amazing stat only 8 diffrent teams have won the NBA title since 1980. Also if one of these 8 teams didn't win the titel over over 50% of the time the are the losing team. It's sort of amazing.

If you want to win a title your best off being a Celtic, Laker, Piston or Spur. The last 30 says these 4 teams are the only ones that can put together diffrent championship teams. Bulls might join them soon.

yeah the mavs were a joke in the 80s
Harerper, Aguirre, Balckman, Perkins, Tarpley, Schrempf, Elis, DOnaldson, Dantley truly a joke that was thr ein the playoffs almost every year until 1990 and reached the COnference finals and put in serious trouble the SHOWTIME.

80s mavs would CRUSH dirk bosy

drobe86
07-05-2010, 07:09 PM
And to the people that say he had Steve Nash, please note that Nash was not an elite player until he went to Phoenix. Also when Dirk broke into his prime Finley got old. I love my Mavs and we have had some good teams, but Dirk hasn't had the luxury of playing with other great players, like Kobe, Tim Duncan, Boston, and San Antonio has had.

DCB/LAL
07-05-2010, 07:10 PM
This is comical. I can't believe people are saying Dirk should have won rings with the likes of Josh Howard or Jason Terry. When Kobe has the luxury of playing with guys like Pau Gasol, Ron Artest, Lamar Odom. Or how about Boston with Pierce, Allen, and Garnett. Or how about the Detroit team that won in '04 with the likes of Billups, Sheed, Prince, Hamilton, and etc. Or maybe the spurs teams with the likes of Duncan, ginobili, and Tony Parker. 1 star and a bunch of average to above average players won't win you a championship.

People were saying the same thing when Kobe had Smush,Kwame, and Luke in his starting line-up all you would read is "Kobe can't win without Shaq". So dont start with that.

Swashcuff
07-05-2010, 07:11 PM
Yea but wouldnt you expect a lesser player to need more help to win a title? And what do you mean he was always injured, in 99 D-Rob was still a top10 player.

Dude look at my post again. Look at what I highlighted. I never said always. Robby was injured a lot that season. And wasn't the player he was when Duncan arrived. I NEVER said he was always injured.

Chronz
07-05-2010, 07:14 PM
where do you have kg among pfs all-time?
#1

Chronz
07-05-2010, 07:20 PM
Dude look at my post again. Look at what I highlighted. I never said always. Robby was injured a lot that season. And wasn't the player he was when Duncan arrived. I NEVER said he was always injured.
lol so you didnt highlight the always, my bad. So your point was that he was hurt but still played excellent ball and only missed a single game as a result of this injury. Great, really swayed the masses with that one.

Back to D-Rob, in 99 he was still better than say Dwight Howard is now.

jay87shot
07-05-2010, 07:27 PM
You cannot expect your # 2 player to be an all nba player If you have all star calibar players that is a solid nba 2. You can not complain when you #2 has been Nash and Kidd, those are perfect #2 for a scoring big man, the best two passers over the last 10 yrs. He has always had scorers around him. I wouldn't say that guys like Paul, Wade, and whoever else haven't had solid #2's either.

drobe86
07-05-2010, 07:32 PM
You cannot expect your # 2 player to be an all nba player If you have all star calibar players that is a solid nba 2. You can not complain when you #2 has been Nash and Kidd, those are perfect #2 for a scoring big man, the best two passers over the last 10 yrs. He has always had scorers around him. I wouldn't say that guys like Paul, Wade, and whoever else haven't had solid #2's either.


But Nash was merely an above average player on the MAVS. And Chris Paul hasn't come close to winning a championship. Wade has won one but with Shaq who was still one of the top 5 centers in the NBA at that time. We just got kidd in '08 he's old.....

drobe86
07-05-2010, 07:34 PM
You cannot expect your # 2 player to be an all nba player If you have all star calibar players that is a solid nba 2. You can not complain when you #2 has been Nash and Kidd, those are perfect #2 for a scoring big man, the best two passers over the last 10 yrs. He has always had scorers around him. I wouldn't say that guys like Paul, Wade, and whoever else haven't had solid #2's either.

Really? So how is that the Pistons were able to play 4 of their starting 5 players in the All star game in '06 and '07? Or how about the Celtics being able to start Pierce, Allen, and Garnett in the All Star game in 2008?

MavsFan4eva
07-05-2010, 07:56 PM
He had Jamison, Kidd, Marion, Nash, Butler, Finley, and Howard. He had many second option players and good players surrounding him.

All of those except for Nash weren't second options!

Swashcuff
07-05-2010, 07:56 PM
lol so you didnt highlight the always, my bad. So your point was that he was hurt but still played excellent ball and only missed a single game as a result of this injury. Great, really swayed the masses with that one.

Back to D-Rob, in 99 he was still better than say Dwight Howard is now.

He certainly more of a low post scoring threat but at that point in his career thats about all he had on Dwight. I don't see the comparison there.

RaiderLakersA's
07-05-2010, 09:35 PM
That man has had multiple all stars over his career, very good benches, great coaches, great ownership. Him not being able to win a title in the last 10 years is all on him IMO.

Agree

Chronz
07-05-2010, 11:31 PM
He certainly more of a low post scoring threat but at that point in his career thats about all he had on Dwight. I don't see the comparison there.
D-Rob was never a low post scorer, Im just sayin they were around the same caliber of play

blams
07-05-2010, 11:49 PM
People seem to forget when he had Nash, Nash wasn't really "STEVE NASH" yet despite his age being up there.

bagwell368
07-05-2010, 11:58 PM
When he was young he had Finley and Nash...

Then Jamison...

Then Terry...

Then Howard...

Year in and year out, Dirk had a lot more support then Akeem ever had, and until the past few years Pierce clearly had far less then Dirk as well.

What's Mr. Pink say? "Here is the smallest violin in the world"

3RDASYSTEM
07-06-2010, 12:09 AM
He's had his fair share of talent, Finley/Nash were plenty enough options for him,they won 60games and 50 ten straight seasons...you have to have at least 2headed monster to do that...VanExel wasnt no punk,especially in playoff/crunch time, Finley dropped 20per for a while and though i agree he hasnt had time to gel with his crew cause Cuban breaks the team up every trade deadline/summer it seems since he took over team...he needs this group to gel,but still add a piece...

thesparky33
07-06-2010, 12:30 AM
Anyone who doesnt think that Dirk is a franchise guy or #1 option is utterly clueless about the NBA in every facet.

Dirk has always had very good teams, throughout the entire 2000's, but even though they didnt win a title (although they were so close, and should have), they had the best record through that span besides the Spurs. Not too shabby if you ask me.

SFG'sTillID_I_E
07-06-2010, 12:34 AM
The issue is that he is the #2. Let's keep it real. No European player has been the main piece or #1 guy that has led a team to a title. And Tony Parker don't count because he: 1. Played in France, but developed his game playing in the summers in Chicago,where his father is from and 2. Wouldn't have won anything without Duncan. Every time a Euro player has been on a title team, its been as sidekick.

Therefore, you cant win a title with Dirk as your #1, until he and the team realize that he not a 1, but a #2. With all those names mentioned, they are all great 2's. From Nash to Kidd to Finley to Jamison to what he has there now in Terry, Marion and Butler. Its time to shift the focus from getting him a #2 over to convincing him that the #2 he is looking for is him.

David Robinson had to do it. Former MVP of the league. Always in the top of the league leader stats for scoring and rebounding. Just like Dirk. But when he repeatedly kept getting his azz handed to him by Utah and LA in the playoffs, he shifted his role to sidekick when Duncan got there and won a Championship...twice. Paul Pierce went through the same thing. He was the stat filler, All Star and #1 in Boston, but didn't win anything until Garnett, a former MVP of the league and a better player than him, and Allen, a premier scorer and All Star, came and shared that load. Dirk needs a player or players that are better than him to win a title. In other words, he needs a #1.

OregonLakerFan
07-06-2010, 02:16 AM
I love Pau but he was never even considered the best PF untill he started playing w/ the Lakers and won titles. Caron is nasty if the Mavs win people will talk about how great he is and that he is a true #2. But if you don't win people will not recognize how good you are. And to the guy who compared the Mavs wins to the Spurs. Really? Reagular season only matter when you can get home court. And home court only matters if you win a ring.

smith&wesson
07-06-2010, 02:35 AM
mavs fans are classy. you dont hear excuses from them .. atleast i dont.

dirk has had,

finlay (he was a really good player in his prime)
nash

those right there are numer 2 number 2 guys.

jason terry was a crazy pick up from the hawks in his prime.

butler is not exatly chump change

he had jamison as well,

i wont even metion marion, he got to dallas way after his prime.

what dirk has never had is a premier 5 playing next to him.

MacFitz92
07-06-2010, 03:00 AM
That man has had multiple all stars over his career, very good benches, great coaches, great ownership. Him not being able to win a title in the last 10 years is all on him IMO.

Very frustrating to here ignorance like this. :facepalm:

Was it on him when Jason Kidd shot 30% from the field against the Spurs in the playoffs? Or what about when his great coach Rick Carlisle benched Caron Butler in the second half in Game 4? What about when Jason Terry averaged 12 points a game in that same series? Nowitzki averaged 26.7 ppg and 8.2 rpg. That game wasn't on him.

I think it is quite comical when people assume it was on him.

MacFitz92
07-06-2010, 03:02 AM
The issue is that he is the #2. Let's keep it real. No European player has been the main piece or #1 guy that has led a team to a title. And Tony Parker don't count because he: 1. Played in France, but developed his game playing in the summers in Chicago,where his father is from and 2. Wouldn't have won anything without Duncan. Every time a Euro player has been on a title team, its been as sidekick.

Therefore, you cant win a title with Dirk as your #1, until he and the team realize that he not a 1, but a #2. With all those names mentioned, they are all great 2's. From Nash to Kidd to Finley to Jamison to what he has there now in Terry, Marion and Butler. Its time to shift the focus from getting him a #2 over to convincing him that the #2 he is looking for is him.

David Robinson had to do it. Former MVP of the league. Always in the top of the league leader stats for scoring and rebounding. Just like Dirk. But when he repeatedly kept getting his azz handed to him by Utah and LA in the playoffs, he shifted his role to sidekick when Duncan got there and won a Championship...twice. Paul Pierce went through the same thing. He was the stat filler, All Star and #1 in Boston, but didn't win anything until Garnett, a former MVP of the league and a better player than him, and Allen, a premier scorer and All Star, came and shared that load. Dirk needs a player or players that are better than him to win a title. In other words, he needs a #1.

Dirk is a #1. He won an MVP for crying out loud. He's the best PF in the game right now hands down.

MacFitz92
07-06-2010, 03:03 AM
Anyone who doesnt think that Dirk is a franchise guy or #1 option is utterly clueless about the NBA in every facet.

Dirk has always had very good teams, throughout the entire 2000's, but even though they didnt win a title (although they were so close, and should have), they had the best record through that span besides the Spurs. Not too shabby if you ask me.

Thank you. Much respect.

dre1990
07-06-2010, 03:14 AM
In 2007 Josh Howard was def a legit number 2. and the outcome? they lose in 6 in the 1st round. And when finely was there hw was a legit 2nd option also

sfattahian
07-06-2010, 03:25 AM
Steve nash = legit #2 - 2-time mvp

josh howard = legit #2 - was better than dirk imo a couple of years back (2 and 3 years ago there was nothing this guy couldn't do... Score at will, shoot, and defend the other teams best player)

dirk is more talented as a shooter, but at 7ft tall dirk has to work too hard for his points... I mean its pathetic AL HARRINGTON(LOL NOT A GOOD DEFENDER EVEN) AND matt barnes were able to shut him down completely a few years back when the warriors upset the mavs.

Dirk is the most over-rated player i've ever seen, thats why he doesn't win.

sfattahian
07-06-2010, 03:37 AM
dirk is a #1. He won an mvp for crying out loud. He's the best pf in the game right now hands down.

hands down??? Thats over-rating dirk, he's the best 7ft shooter ever, but thats all he's got. No defense, average rebounder, poor athlete. Always fading, no power moves for a power forward.

I's rather have gasol hands down, and so would anybody in their right mind.

Also i'd rather have amare, bosh, boozer, josh smith, odom, kmart, david west.

Dirk is soft

RipVW
07-06-2010, 03:44 AM
Because people dont like Germans...thats what started prohibition.

IDB Josh M
07-06-2010, 04:06 AM
hands down??? Thats over-rating dirk, he's the best 7ft shooter ever, but thats all he's got. No defense, average rebounder, poor athlete. Always fading, no power moves for a power forward.

I's rather have gasol hands down, and so would anybody in their right mind.

Also i'd rather have amare, bosh, boozer, josh smith, odom, kmart, david west.

Dirk is soft

Wow, that's underrating Dirk. I think Dirk and Pau are about equal. The difference is the leadership mentality. While Pau is great, he just didn't have the savvy to lead a team, which is why he was swept out of the playoffs till her was teamed with Kobe. Ironically, being the #2 guy allowed Pau to be a better player.

Dirk, he has the leadership qualities, however he's not someone I'd build a team around anymore. Maybe he should go the way of Pau, and become the number 2 player.

JordansBulls
07-06-2010, 08:11 AM
Because people dont like Germans...thats what started prohibition.

This aint' World War II buddy.

MacFitz92
07-06-2010, 08:21 AM
hands down??? Thats over-rating dirk, he's the best 7ft shooter ever, but thats all he's got. No defense, average rebounder, poor athlete. Always fading, no power moves for a power forward.

I's rather have gasol hands down, and so would anybody in their right mind.

Also i'd rather have amare, bosh, boozer, josh smith, odom, kmart, david west.

Dirk is soft

Lmao. :facepalm:

Unruly Fan
07-06-2010, 08:30 AM
We have never had a LEGIT #2!!

Nash wasnt his MVP level player until he left for the suns, all star but not a legit 2

Caron, all star but not a LEGIT #2,

Finley and Howard, ehhhh same thing

Jamison was a 6th man!! how is that a legit 2?

Marion, wow lol

Kidd, is not a legit 2 with his age!!!

We have never had a legit 2 in Dallas and I pray we can do a trade for one this offseason, so we can win a title but i will be a mavs fan no matter what

and plus, superstar with just a good supporting cast never gets it done, like Lebron!! You need a legit #2You're right, the Mav's never had a legit 2. They've had legit 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 & 6's for several years now. Unbelievable...

ragee
07-06-2010, 08:54 AM
A lot of the people here are saying that Dirk had a lot of good layers around him... I have to agree with that but come playoff time, all of them choke and Dirk was always forced to do everything himself... I thought Butler will be the answer to this problem but he tuned out to be just another choker... I hope Dallas gets someone legit this off season...

ragee
07-06-2010, 08:59 AM
And to all the people saying Pau is better than Dirk I'll give you a big fat :facepalm:.

Put Dirk in the Lakers as their second option and I am sure they will do so much better... Pau is playing great because he is not being pressured to carry his team all by himself... He has good teammates who steps up their game during pressure (Unlike Howard, Butler, Terry, Harris Marion and all the others who disappears come playoff time!) and he has KOBE BRYANT as the first option!

Oefarmy2005
07-06-2010, 09:25 AM
KG had a hell-a worst supporting cast around him his whole career in Minny and got to the WCF with 33 yr old Spreewell and 35 year old Cassel.

bagwell368
07-06-2010, 09:25 AM
This aint' World War II buddy.

Prohibition was over by the outbreak of WW II in Europe, you guys must mean WW I, when Germans were indeed very unpopular and under frequent attack in the US.

Cali.Empire
07-06-2010, 09:32 AM
Dirk has had a few potential #2's, but either the system he was in, the coach he had or most of all Dirk didn't get the most out of those player when he played with them. A #1 should expect and demand the best out of everyone all the time and Dirk just doesn't command that like a leader should. This is no knock on Dirk , he is a great player, but he just doesnt have the mentality to be the #1 man. Dirk is a beast as a #2.

Hellcrooner
07-06-2010, 11:22 AM
here we go again.

Yeah pau was so bad a leader that he lead.....the mighty BOzi Wells, Stomile swift, Mike miller, Battier, Ballhog chocolate williams, lorenzen wright, brevin knight, james poesey, all af tehm with their mighty 0 allstars combined betwween all of them to two 50 wins seasons and three consecutive poff appearances on an ULTRALOADED WEST and losing to the first seed each of the times,

Yes terrible.


Talk bou not having second options..........

Just answer

Nash Or jason williams?

Kidd or Stoudamire

Harris or B knight?

J Howard or Posey.

STakchous or MIke MIller

Terry or Bonzi

FInley(prime) or Battier

Jasmison or Swift

Dampier or Wright

Antoine walker ( before beocming useless=) or Grant Long

JordansBulls
07-06-2010, 11:31 AM
hands down??? Thats over-rating dirk, he's the best 7ft shooter ever, but thats all he's got. No defense, average rebounder, poor athlete. Always fading, no power moves for a power forward.

I's rather have gasol hands down, and so would anybody in their right mind.

Also i'd rather have amare, bosh, boozer, josh smith, odom, kmart, david west.
Dirk is soft

:speechless:

Fargus
07-06-2010, 11:43 AM
KG had a hell-a worst supporting cast around him his whole career in Minny and got to the WCF with 33 yr old Spreewell and 35 year old Cassel.

Sam Cassell was a top 5 point guard that season (#3 in scoring) and Spreewell averaged almost 17 points a game. Whats your point? Cause your argument about KG doing it with less isn't holding up.

thekmp211
07-06-2010, 12:02 PM
Sam Cassell was a top 5 point guard that season (#3 in scoring) and Spreewell averaged almost 17 points a game. Whats your point? Cause your argument about KG doing it with less isn't holding up.

dude, for your own sake, i'd drop this argument.

anpmp
07-06-2010, 12:16 PM
The main reason Dallas does well in the regular season, but not in the playoffs is because their team is constructed of offensive-minded players. Even though Dirk has been surrounded with all-star caliber players, they never played good team defense. And that's what you need in the playoffs to win.

Guys like Kendrick Perkins, Alonzo Mourning, Ben Wallace, etc. may not have the all-star credentials as Dirk's current and past teammates, but were huge reasons why their teams won championships. Who has Dirk had as a defensive enforcer?

Raoul Duke
07-06-2010, 12:24 PM
The main reason Dallas does well in the regular season, but not in the playoffs is because their team is constructed of offensive-minded players. Even though Dirk has been surrounded with all-star caliber players, they never played good team defense. And that's what you need in the playoffs to win.

Guys like Kendrick Perkins, Alonzo Mourning, Ben Wallace, etc. may not have the all-star credentials as Dirk's current and past teammates, but were huge reasons why their teams won championships. Who has Dirk had as a defensive enforcer?

Dallas had a damn fine defensive group when they went to the finals, and again the following year. Harris was more than solid, and that was back when Josh Howard actually gave two *****.

anpmp
07-06-2010, 12:27 PM
Dallas had a damn fine defensive group when they went to the finals, and again the following year. Harris was more than solid, and that was back when Josh Howard actually gave two *****.

In the finals against Miami, Wade drove to the hoop at will with no real shot-blocking presence in there. Plus Miami's 3-point shooters were left wide-open on many occasions, which they made Dallas pay for. So what defense are you talking about?

thekmp211
07-06-2010, 12:44 PM
dirk is a great player, a player worthy of a championship.

he has teams with a lot of talent around him as the principal star.

i think in their attempts to build a winner, dallas miscast dirk as a centerpiece and acquired lesser players to fill the role of sidekick.

i think he needs another star next to him, call it a "legit number two option" or not. he needs a player of similar skill next to him. someone who can play lead.

he will always be limited for being a 7 footer who couldnt defend, rebound or score in the post particularly well. it is very difficult to be successful with those deficiencies in your best player.

Swashcuff
07-06-2010, 01:12 PM
D-Rob was never a low post scorer, Im just sayin they were around the same caliber of play

They weren't the same calibre... This Dwight is certainly better than 99 Robinson. And D-Rob certainly was had more moves in the post than Dwight Howard.

Swashcuff
07-06-2010, 01:19 PM
Dirk is a #1. He won an MVP for crying out loud. He's the best PF in the game right now hands down.

while i do agree he's the best lets not stretch and say hands down dude. Thats a bit too much because there are quite a few other PFs out there who can outperferform Dirk on any given night. Especially on D, in the paint and on the glass.

Chronz
07-06-2010, 01:40 PM
They weren't the same calibre... This Dwight is certainly better than 99 Robinson. And D-Rob certainly was had more moves in the post than Dwight Howard.

Care to share why?

awmathewsjr
07-06-2010, 02:01 PM
We have never had a LEGIT #2!!

Nash wasnt his MVP level player until he left for the suns, all star but not a legit 2
Caron, all star but not a LEGIT #2,

Finley and Howard, ehhhh same thing

Jamison was a 6th man!! how is that a legit 2?

Marion, wow lol

Kidd, is not a legit 2 with his age!!!

We have never had a legit 2 in Dallas and I pray we can do a trade for one this offseason, so we can win a title but i will be a mavs fan no matter what

and plus, superstar with just a good supporting cast never gets it done, like Lebron!! You need a legit #2

Since when are all star players not good enough to be considered as a legit 2.
Olajuwon just had a good supporting cast in '94(and that was the nba at its best).

Angel2Maverick
07-06-2010, 02:21 PM
Steve nash = legit #2 - 2-time mvp

josh howard = legit #2 - was better than dirk imo a couple of years back (2 and 3 years ago there was nothing this guy couldn't do... Score at will, shoot, and defend the other teams best player)

dirk is more talented as a shooter, but at 7ft tall dirk has to work too hard for his points... I mean its pathetic AL HARRINGTON(LOL NOT A GOOD DEFENDER EVEN) AND matt barnes were able to shut him down completely a few years back when the warriors upset the mavs.

Dirk is the most over-rated player i've ever seen, thats why he doesn't win.

haaha this kid gots jokes, first of all from what I remembered that Stephen Jackson was the one gaurding Dirk and they would always double team him so when dirk needed help nobody really stood up. How do you win when your supporting cast needs help. And if you think about this team was not your typical 8th seed team. Andris Biendrins, Matt Barnes, Baron Davis, Mike Dunleavy, Monta Ellis, Stephen Jackson, Jason Richardson, Mickeal Pietrus just to name some. lets not take anything away from this talented team.

and to top it all off Nelson new Dirks weakness, and he did a very good job exploiting it. And to say that Josh Howard was better than Dirk is just idiotic. Yes Howard was a very good player but it seemed like he wasn't given it his all and his mind also wasn't in the game. And please stop saying Nash, he wasn't the Nash we all know today.

kjdills13
07-06-2010, 02:45 PM
if wade or lebron went to the cavs they would win the title.

a S&T Marion, Terry and a 1st for etheir lebron or james

kidd
wade/lebron
butler
Dirk
Haywood

that team is the best team in the NBA

u2tube11
07-06-2010, 02:57 PM
Michael Finley and steve nash seem like more than #2 guys any one disagree?. Not to add but antawn jamison was on that team to. For some odd reason they couldn't win it with that core.

Young2Kinsler
07-06-2010, 03:20 PM
Nash was not his MVP type self with Dallas, and Finley was at the end of his career when this team was ready for a title run. Neither are even close to a true #2 when they were with Dallas.

carlessyen
07-06-2010, 03:22 PM
In my opinion Dirk is a number #2 guy he doesn't have what it takes to be a number one. Really the year he won MVP it should have went to Nash. He is probably the weakest big man in the history of the NBA. DOnt get me wrong he can shoot but that doesn't make you a #1 guy. Anyone can shoot in the NBA if called upon to. He is 7 foot. He can cause matchup problems for some teams most not most playoff teams. You should be a force underneath at 7 foot. He can't guard a center or Powerforward cause of strength, and he can't guard a small forward because he is to slow. Most temas like golden state cover him with the #3 position and swarm him with speed and he just falls apart. On most teams he is a 15 and 8 guy. Dallas should have let him go and went after, Bosh or Amare. but i guess they figured they had better chance landing him back, cause not alot of teams were intrested.

thesparky33
07-06-2010, 04:53 PM
I love Pau but he was never even considered the best PF untill he started playing w/ the Lakers and won titles. Caron is nasty if the Mavs win people will talk about how great he is and that he is a true #2. But if you don't win people will not recognize how good you are. And to the guy who compared the Mavs wins to the Spurs. Really? Reagular season only matter when you can get home court. And home court only matters if you win a ring.
Yeah, averaging 56 wins per season over 10 seasons only shows a consistency that is extremely rare and hard to replicate. No big deal. :rolleyes:

josh howard = legit #2 - was better than dirk imo a couple of years back (2 and 3 years ago there was nothing this guy couldn't do... Score at will, shoot, and defend the other teams best player)

OMG

sep11ie
07-06-2010, 05:04 PM
Jason Terry is/was a legit.

JasonJohnHorn
07-08-2010, 06:42 PM
He has had all kinds of players that were legit second options:
MVP Nash
All-Star and Franchise player before Dirk arrive: Finley
Juan Howard 20/10 player
Antoine Walker: 20/10 player
Antwoan Jamison near 20/10 player

The guy has played with so much talent! but also has been around for lots of trades and moves, and no steady to to build chemistry with. Cuban is always making trades and signings to 'improve' things and has tanled chemistry in the process.