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mavs.raps.90
07-02-2010, 07:52 PM
There are some bad ones out there

Right now i'd go with Joe Dumars

In the last 2 yrs since trading billups the only good move he's made is getting jonas jerebko besides that its just been overpaying players who arent able to produce and it will probably set them back atleast 5 yrs but hey there's always the SUMMER of 2014!!

Honorable mention David Kahn and Alltime mention to Rob Babcock

Gators123
07-02-2010, 07:54 PM
lol

VPNeedAssistanc
07-02-2010, 07:54 PM
Mitch Kupchak, He failed to deliver Mike Miller. So he got Steve Blake, he will eventually overpay derek fisher. He is terrible gm, he made one good trade in his entire career..

Tony_Starks
07-02-2010, 07:55 PM
David Khan by far. Dumars is a very close second though. I believe Kahn's recent Darko signing proves he's still the champ!

Catfish1314
07-02-2010, 07:56 PM
Kahn and Stefanski.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
07-02-2010, 07:58 PM
All time:Isiah(everything he did was wrong besides drafting)
Present: Dumars(A.I, villanueva, gordon)

Spreefor3!!!
07-02-2010, 08:02 PM
Noone can top Larry Riley of Golden State

1.) Traded Jamal Crawford to ATL for Speedy Claxton, Acie Law

2.) Traded Stephen Jackson and Law for injured guard Raja Bell, and Vladimir Radmanovic. Warriors waived Bell.

3.) Traded Marco Belinelli for injured wing Devean George

4.) Signed FA Mikki Moore last season after promising a 'solid' FA. Warriors waived him mid-season.

5.) Traded Corey Maggette for Dan Gadzuric, Charlie Bell

JNA17
07-02-2010, 08:04 PM
today? Kahn is number 1, Joe Dumars close 2nd,

Tony_Starks
07-02-2010, 08:04 PM
Mitch Kupchak, He failed to deliver Mike Miller. So he got Steve Blake, he will eventually overpay derek fisher. He is terrible gm, he made one good trade in his entire career..



Lets see....

-Didn't trade Bynum for Kidd when Kobe was screaming for it
-Didn't trade Bynum for Jermaine Oneal when half of LA was screaming for it
-Signed Derek Fisher who's come through 2 years straight in the clutch
-Turned Radmonovivh into Shannon Brown
-Signed Ron Artest



Outside of that and winning rings, yeah he's pretty terrible.

BALLER71
07-02-2010, 08:06 PM
Kahn is awful.

JNA17
07-02-2010, 08:07 PM
Lets see....

-Didn't trade Bynum for Kidd when Kobe was screaming for it
-Didn't trade Bynum for Jermaine Oneal when half of LA was screaming for it
-Signed Derek Fisher who's come through 2 years straight in the clutch
-Turned Radmonovivh into Shannon Brown
-Signed Ron Artest



Outside of that and winning rings, yeah he's pretty terrible.

logic will not work with those kind of people, you need visual responses such as this.

http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww254/thrall89/Facepalm.jpg

PraiseJesus
07-02-2010, 08:10 PM
Whoever runs Minnesota is the worst GM.

Rubio and Flynn before Curry???

Nothing will ever top that

mamba24
07-02-2010, 08:10 PM
Mitch Kupchak, He failed to deliver Mike Miller. So he got Steve Blake, he will eventually overpay derek fisher. He is terrible gm, he made one good trade in his entire career..

i would say a guy who has put a team together that has gone to the last 3 finals and won the last 2 should not be anywhere near the worst gm lol... ur not too bright... just another laker hater

RC3
07-02-2010, 08:12 PM
Donnie Walsh cause there the KNICKS. :p

97NYer
07-02-2010, 08:12 PM
1.Kahn
2.Dumars

Shady66
07-02-2010, 08:17 PM
Phoenix's GM............. o wait

Iceman05
07-02-2010, 08:18 PM
Ernie Grunfeld - Washington Wizards. He had a few good years - Picking up Arenas, Butler and Jamison. But what do they have to show for it now? Over the past 3 seasons, they went from being a top 5 team in the east to one of the worst. He drove that team straight into the ground. Where would they be without the #1 pick in this years draft?

Gotta be him or Larry Riley of Golden State. Spreefor3 nailed it.

Wisdom Listens
07-02-2010, 08:20 PM
303,123

NYK|NYY
07-02-2010, 08:23 PM
Isiah Thomas would have his Jersey retired in horrible GMness

Tony_Starks
07-02-2010, 08:24 PM
Whoever runs Minnesota is the worst GM.

Rubio and Flynn before Curry???

Nothing will ever top that


David Khan reminds me of that episode on Seinfeld where George figures out everything he does is wrong and just starts doing the opposite.

Thats what Kahn should start doing. Whatever draft, trade, or signing he likes just go completely the other way!!

Slimsim
07-02-2010, 08:26 PM
Kahn by a country mile

jaded01
07-02-2010, 08:28 PM
david kahn then dumars. if you are going all time then its isaiah and its no contest.

Iceman05
07-02-2010, 08:29 PM
David Khan reminds me of that episode on Seinfeld where George figures out everything he does is wrong and just starts doing the opposite.

did you just watch that episode? I did

mark1125
07-02-2010, 08:32 PM
Dumars should not be on this list. Lets see.....he won a title which is more than 3/4 of the current GM's can say. He also led the Pistons to how many conference finals in a row? How many GM's can say that?

He has fallen with some shaky deals, but to call him the worst is just inaccurate.

Tony_Starks
07-02-2010, 08:33 PM
did you just watch that episode? I did


Yes sir! One of my favs!

sf-fanatic
07-02-2010, 08:38 PM
Larry Riley is terrible and the worst GM in the nba. This should be no debate. Cohan the worst owner also. And Nellie the worst coach. PLEASE LARRY ELLISON BUY THE TEAM !!

Patrick Swayze
07-02-2010, 09:07 PM
Why hasn't anyone mentioned Jeff Bower yet. He gives horrible contracts (Posey, Mo Pete, Peja) that he has to try to get rid of the season after he gives them.

boolish
07-02-2010, 09:14 PM
the guy who is signing JJ to a max deal for 6 years.

pistonsfanomg
07-02-2010, 09:14 PM
There are some bad ones out there

Right now i'd go with Joe Dumars

In the last 2 yrs since trading billups the only good move he's made is getting jonas jerebko besides that its just been overpaying players who arent able to produce and it will probably set them back atleast 5 yrs but hey there's always the SUMMER of 2014!!

Honorable mention David Kahn and Alltime mention to Rob Babcock

:facepalm:

pistonsfanomg
07-02-2010, 09:16 PM
Dumars should not be on this list. Lets see.....he won a title which is more than 3/4 of the current GM's can say. He also led the Pistons to how many conference finals in a row? How many GM's can say that?

He has fallen with some shaky deals, but to call him the worst is just inaccurate.

amen :clap:

BkOriginalOne
07-02-2010, 09:26 PM
David Khan because what success has he really had.
Darko for 5mil a year? C'mon.

VCaintdead17
07-02-2010, 09:31 PM
Larry Bird should be in contention

Daze9900
07-02-2010, 09:32 PM
Kahn and Pat Riley is slowly climbing up the board if he strikes out in FA and Wade walks. He'll be left with Chalmers and Beasley.

Twolves88
07-02-2010, 09:38 PM
I don't get how Khan or Dumars are considered bad. Dumars assembled a damn good team that went on to multiple championships....

Khan has yet to really do anything. Everyone just likes to knock him because of his approach to drafting. If you look at it though the players he has have been pretty decent finds. Just give him time... its the same thing as when the suns fans hated Kerr.


My vote has to go to
1.The hornets gm
2. Larry bird. Pacers

BradyIsTheMan12
07-02-2010, 09:44 PM
Chris Wallace is the worst GM. Rudy Gay getting a max is laughable, Thabeet number 2 overall?

BTW anyone who says Dumars is the worst GM is just stupid. He isn't a good GM but he did at the least construct a top tier team for many years.

Lakers211221
07-02-2010, 09:44 PM
Mitch Kupchak, He failed to deliver Mike Miller. So he got Steve Blake, he will eventually overpay derek fisher. He is terrible gm, he made one good trade in his entire career..

Yeah, the guy who put together the team that has been to the NBA Finals the last 3 years (2 Championships) and has the team that is the likely favorite to win next year is the worst GM in the NBA :facepalm: He is arguably the top GM in the NBA. Here are some of the moves that he made:

1) Turned Kwame Brown, a couple of draft picks, and some scraps into Pau Gasol
2) Turned Vlad Radmonivic into Shannon Brown and salary cap relief (Morrison's contract)
3) Brought in Ron Artest
4) Refused to trade Bynum and Odom for Jermaine O'neil
5) Refused to trade Bynum for Kidd
6) Drafted Bynum when it wasn't a poplular move

R_O_W_E
07-02-2010, 09:46 PM
Jeff Bower.

Overpaid Peja.
Overpaid Posey.
Overpaid Morris Peterson.
Drafted Julian Wright.
Drafted Hilton Armstrong.
Drafted Cedric Simmons.
Drafted & traded JR Smith for Tyson Chandler's bad contract.
Failed to trade Tyson Chandler's bad contract to OKC which upset CP3.
Traded Tyson Chandler's bad contract to acquire Emeka Okafor's bad contract.


He is full of fail.

still1ballin
07-02-2010, 09:49 PM
Mitch Kupchak, He failed to deliver Mike Miller. So he got Steve Blake, he will eventually overpay derek fisher. He is terrible gm, he made one good trade in his entire career..

Does Kwame Brown for Pau Gasol ring a bell?

:facepalm:

ILoveL.A2416
07-02-2010, 09:50 PM
Lets see....

-Didn't trade Bynum for Kidd when Kobe was screaming for it
-Didn't trade Bynum for Jermaine Oneal when half of LA was screaming for it
-Signed Derek Fisher who's come through 2 years straight in the clutch
-Turned Radmonovivh into Shannon Brown
-Signed Ron Artest



Outside of that and winning rings, yeah he's pretty terrible.

You forgot the most important one

-Turning that Bum Kwame brown into a dynamic PF in Pau Gasol.

plpfctn
07-02-2010, 10:00 PM
imma go with isiah thomas. i know he's not a gm anymore, but his poor moves are still destroying the knicks. that fool was that bad.

topdog
07-02-2010, 10:02 PM
We'll have some fresh contenders pretty soon...

But what is with all this hate for Kahn? He's been with the team for just over a year now and it is in no worse shape than before he came. At the very least, he's made the team more relevant than it's probably ever been (including the "Big 3" year) - you all seem to love to talk about him.

VinceCarter
07-02-2010, 10:12 PM
David Khan reminds me of that episode on Seinfeld where George figures out everything he does is wrong and just starts doing the opposite.

Thats what Kahn should start doing. Whatever draft, trade, or signing he likes just go completely the other way!!

:clap:
I love Seinfeld :D

Korman12
07-02-2010, 10:13 PM
David Kahn, Larry Bird, Larry Riley, Ed Stefanski. No real order.

nobreed504
07-02-2010, 10:18 PM
Jeff Bower we have not called anyone during FA, not even his mom. He also got a bunch of old people being paid 15 mil this year.

xabial
07-02-2010, 10:20 PM
imma go with isiah thomas. i know he's not a gm anymore, but his poor moves are still destroying the knicks. that fool was that bad.

He destroyed the Knicks on every level. He demolished that franchise. Traded a #2 Pick in the 2006 draft, and a #9 pick in the 2007 Draft for the 9th and 23rd picks and Eddy Curry. Could've drafted Brandon Roy...

Chinatownbiznes
07-02-2010, 10:24 PM
Isaiah was bad but scott laden was worse. Isaiah inherited a ******** and left it a ********.

KnicksR4Real
07-02-2010, 10:27 PM
Kahn cause he did not trade us Rubio

SANDBURG23
07-02-2010, 10:28 PM
The trade wasnt Brown for Gasol it really turns out talent wise to be Gasol for Gasol 1st rd in
'08 and '10 and about 10 million less in salary. The other Gasol is not that bad of a player either.

black1605
07-02-2010, 10:28 PM
wow! 4 pages and no one has mentioned Michael Jordan! (who isnt even the bobcats GM)

also, i saw that Seinfeld today as well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKUvKE3bQlY

robdog_5
07-02-2010, 10:29 PM
Kahn is pretty horrible, Issiah ouch

Chinatownbiznes
07-02-2010, 10:35 PM
Who is the knicks Gm that passed on brook lopez and brandon jennings in consecutive drafts? I'm pretty sure isaiah wouldn't have even done something so stupid.

Phat Pat 94
07-02-2010, 10:36 PM
Whoever runs Minnesota is the worst GM.

Rubio and Flynn before Curry???

Nothing will ever top that

sig quote

Sandman
07-02-2010, 10:37 PM
whomever is employed by james dolan.

FLWolvesFan
07-02-2010, 10:37 PM
Isiah followed by "STFU Donnie" Walsh unless he can sign at least a couple of free agents. Give Kahn another year to work with and lets see what he does, he's unorthodox but does seem to have a vision and a plan. As far as Curry goes, he wouldn't even try out for the Wolves and Flynn had a pretty good year overall in a new and challenging system. The jury's still out on Rubio, but I'm willing to bet he's the best of the three, by a large margin.

avrpatsfan
07-02-2010, 10:37 PM
Mitch Kupchak, He failed to deliver Mike Miller. So he got Steve Blake, he will eventually overpay derek fisher. He is terrible gm, he made one good trade in his entire career..
Uh the GM of the best team in the league with an all star roster? How do you get Gasol, Bynum, Odom, and Bryant on the same team? He makes ridiculous trades and they are good ones. :facepalm:
Dumars for sure.

JasonJohnHorn
07-02-2010, 10:38 PM
Joe Dumars has been restricted slightly by the former owner who didnt want to pay Okur. Had Okur stayed with the Pistons, they would have had a much better front court rotation when Big Ben left for Chi-town and the Pistons would have been able to use the MLE that season for somebody other than Nazr. As for his signings last year, I agree they were horrible, and Dumars has been hit and miss in the draft.

As for the worst GM's right now: Pat Riley and Donnie Walsh. The Pistons will put out a better product than either of those teams next season. In order to sign even two quality free agents, the Knicks will have to resind the rights to their two best players last year: Harrington and Lee, and with Eddy Curry eating up 12 mill or so of the cap, and everybody's contracts being up, the Knicks will be scarmbling to fill the starting line-up let alone the bench, and will not have the cap space to do it since in order to lure big names they will need to shell out two max contracts. The Heat are in the same situation, they may very well lose Wade, O'Neal and Haslem's rights will need to be recinded if the Heat hope to sign any big names and that will leave Beasley as the best player on the Heat. Now if they dont draw any big names they may end up keeping Haslem, but neither the Knicks or the Heat had any high draft picks and both have made trades for expiring contracts to chase after free agents in the offseason, leaving their roster depleted and their hopes hanging on free agents who can all be offered more moeny by their current teams and their own free agent who seems to be leaning toward his home town of Chi-town.

I'd say those two guys have done a pretty $#!T job putting good teams on the floor this year.

As for Dumars, I would give him until the end of the season to redeem himself. Gordon and Charlie V were bad signings, but he's made some brilliant moves in the past (picking Billups, Wallace, Wallace, Hamilton, McDysse, and drafting Prince, Amir Johnson and Jason Maxiell).

Sandman
07-02-2010, 10:45 PM
the dumars vs. isiah debate is a lot easier 20 years later, aint it?

xabial
07-02-2010, 10:45 PM
sig quote

I dont understand why you quoted him? He drafted Rubio knowing his intentions to play in a big market city. It was a waste of a #5 pick of which you gave up Foye+ Miller to trade for. Granted you still hold his rights, but what makes you so sure, He will play for you, and if at all you get equal value of what you gave up to acquire the 5th pick? I know Minny Fans will probably crucify me for this, but give me reasons why you think Flynn was a better pick at #6 then Stephen Curry?

dre1990
07-02-2010, 10:49 PM
No Dumars, no 6 times straight ECF, no Championship. to say hes a bad GM is stupid

Bishnoff
07-02-2010, 10:51 PM
David Khan reminds me of that episode on Seinfeld where George figures out everything he does is wrong and just starts doing the opposite.

Thats what Kahn should start doing. Whatever draft, trade, or signing he likes just go completely the other way!!

Lol!

GodsSon
07-02-2010, 10:51 PM
Chris Wallace is the worst GM. Rudy Gay getting a max is laughable, Thabeet number 2 overall?

BTW anyone who says Dumars is the worst GM is just stupid. He isn't a good GM but he did at the least construct a top tier team for many years.

Agreed

Gators123
07-02-2010, 10:52 PM
No Dumars, no 6 times straight ECF, no Championship. to say hes a bad GM is stupid

People forget fast don't they?

GodsSon
07-02-2010, 10:53 PM
People forget really fast don't they?

They do when you hand out 35mil and 55 mil to Charlie V and BG in one summer lol

Gators123
07-02-2010, 10:55 PM
They do when you hand out 50 mil to both Charlie V and BG in one summer lol

He should have waited and gave Amir Johnson the same contract that Toronto gave him, right? :rolleyes:

GodsSon
07-02-2010, 10:56 PM
He should have waited and gave Amir Johnson the same contract and Toronto gave him, right? :rolleyes:

The man has a family to feed...and more skin to ink:)

Gators123
07-02-2010, 10:57 PM
The man has a family to feed...and more skin to ink:)

lol I guess your right.

magichatnumber9
07-02-2010, 11:03 PM
dumars

FLWolvesFan
07-02-2010, 11:06 PM
McHale's gotta be up there somewhere, and I'm a Wolve's fan.

SpeeMN
07-02-2010, 11:16 PM
Every single person voting for kahn have got to vote for Mchale. You are right wolvesfan.

I just see a lot of ignorant posts saying "David Kahn is the worst", when I don't see a why.

He would get more hate if he had passed on Rubio. And Other teams passed on Curry. He wasn't a sure thing until the season started, and people have their hindsight biases.

What else has he done. If we had gottan the Number two pick we would have Evan Turner and it would be all gravy.

spreadeagle
07-02-2010, 11:17 PM
I will gladly put Colangelo up here if he doesnt get somethin good for Bosh..Bargnani before Roy..Signing Turk and Calderon to like 10 mil a yr long term deals...Not trading Bosh at the trade deadline last year where he could have got way more value..the Amir Johnson Signing,The failed Shawn Marion and Jermain O'neal experements..Stop me when im wrong

MC Menace
07-02-2010, 11:17 PM
Joe Dumars
Mike Dunlievy

cwilson21
07-02-2010, 11:33 PM
I love people ripping on Kahn for passing on Curry when Curry excelled mainly in part to Don Nelson's system. If we would've drafted Curry instead of Flynn, Curry would've ran into a lot of problems as well trying to figure out the triangle system while Flynn would've killed with free reign in GS. Flynn would've posted better numbers in GS's system while Curry would've been lost in our new triangle system. Ppl would've been ripping on Kahn for not drafting Flynn instead. Plus, why draft a guy who doesn't even bother working out for you and makes it clear he doesn't want to be a part of your team?

Sixerlover
07-02-2010, 11:44 PM
Every single person voting for kahn have got to vote for Mchale. You are right wolvesfan.

I just see a lot of ignorant posts saying "David Kahn is the worst", when I don't see a why.


I think the Minny fan base, and the rest of America disagree on this topic. If it was knowledge that Rubio wasn't going to come over for at least 2 years then he wouldn't of gotten any "hate" for not selecting him. Who wants to spend their 5th pick on a player that won't be here for 3 years? There were SO many good PG's in last years draft class anyway, so no he wouldn't have gotten more hate.

McHale was pretty damn bad, but Kahn is on the road to McHale-land if you ask me.

But overall, Dumars went from great in the mid 2000's, to plain horrible now. It's almost laughable. Stefanski is up there as well IMO.

FLWolvesFan
07-03-2010, 12:08 AM
I think the Minny fan base, and the rest of America disagree on this topic. If it was knowledge that Rubio wasn't going to come over for at least 2 years then he wouldn't of gotten any "hate" for not selecting him. Who wants to spend their 5th pick on a player that won't be here for 3 years? There were SO many good PG's in last years draft class anyway, so no he wouldn't have gotten more hate.

McHale was pretty damn bad, but Kahn is on the road to McHale-land if you ask me.

But overall, Dumars went from great in the mid 2000's, to plain horrible now. It's almost laughable. Stefanski is up there as well IMO.

You're right with the MN fanbase and many other NBA fans disagreeing. Truth be known Kahn wanted Evans and Flynn, Rubio slipped so we grabbed him, he was a surprise and a steal. There was no pure wing worthy of that pick so we took the best player available, never a bad option. Curry was up there fairly close to Flynn in their eyes, but he wouldn't work out for the Wolves plus he's like 6'3" so playing him and Flynn together wasn't realistic. Jennings had a poor year in Europe so no one quite knew what to think. Really at looking at the top ten picks from last year the only 4 who really did anything decent were Flynn, Curry, Jennings, and Evans. Flynn held his own and Rubio could be a star. At least we didn't draft Thabeet:D

Sixerlover
07-03-2010, 12:17 AM
^ Very true. Very Very true.

For every David Kahn, there is a Chris Wallace somewhere lurking.

Vinny642
07-03-2010, 12:19 AM
Jeff Bower sucks

fadedmario
07-03-2010, 12:19 AM
At least Dumars has a ring. You people are funny. 6 straight eastern finals. Whatever

KingOf215
07-03-2010, 12:41 AM
Joe Dumars has been on both sides of the extreme. You can't discount that he assembled a championship team, who were contenders for a long time. But c'mon... he drafted Darko when he could have selected Melo, Bosh or Wade, and gave out some awful contracts (Rip, Charlie V & Gordon). Right now, I think he's already rode that one ring for all it's worth.

ILoveL.A2416
07-03-2010, 12:55 AM
I think dumars. Was dumars the one who picked that bust darko over big time stars wade/melo/bosh?

papisupremo
07-03-2010, 01:18 AM
larry riley - fellas, its not even close. baron left and they got nothing in return. grossly overpaid maggette, who's now gadzuric and charlie bell. overpaid monta ellis. drafted wright very high. he musta been high, lol. dude sux, and traded jamal crawford for speedy claxton and acie law, smh

The Raven
07-03-2010, 04:06 AM
Mitch Kupchak, He failed to deliver Mike Miller. So he got Steve Blake, he will eventually overpay derek fisher. He is terrible gm, he made one good trade in his entire career..

Nope

bigmac8675
07-03-2010, 05:01 AM
Larry Riley...

/thread

Niro
07-03-2010, 05:38 AM
Noone can top Larry Riley of Golden State

1.) Traded Jamal Crawford to ATL for Speedy Claxton, Acie Law

2.) Traded Stephen Jackson and Law for injured guard Raja Bell, and Vladimir Radmanovic. Warriors waived Bell.

3.) Traded Marco Belinelli for injured wing Devean George

4.) Signed FA Mikki Moore last season after promising a 'solid' FA. Warriors waived him mid-season.

5.) Traded Corey Maggette for Dan Gadzuric, Charlie Bell


this
we traded crawford,jackson and maggette for nothing:facepalm:

EdGein812
07-03-2010, 05:54 AM
There are some bad ones out there

Right now i'd go with Joe Dumars

In the last 2 yrs since trading billups the only good move he's made is getting jonas jerebko besides that its just been overpaying players who arent able to produce and it will probably set them back atleast 5 yrs but hey there's always the SUMMER of 2014!!

Honorable mention David Kahn and Alltime mention to Rob Babcock

You're clueless. You wanna look at the championship team he built and tell me the guy is the worst in the league?!?

-Grant Hill, traded for Chucky Atkins and Ben Wallace in 2000.
-Jerome Williams, traded for Corliss Williamson in 2001.
-Mateen Cleaves, traded for Jon Barry in 2001.
-Jud Buechler, traded for Clifford Robinson in 2001.
-Jerry Stackhouse, traded for Richard Hamilton in 2002.
-Michael Curry, traded for Lindsey Hunter in 2003.
Zeljko Rebraca, Bob Sura, Chucky Atkins, Lindsey Hunter and two first round picks, traded for Rasheed Wallace and Mike James in 2004; Hunter would return to the team a week later.

-Mehmet Okur in the second round with the 38th overall pick in the 2001 NBA Draft.
-Tayshaun Prince in the first round with the 23rd overall pick in the 2002 NBA Draft.

He built that team single handedly. Every team that's won a championship the last 20 years has done so with a team full of HOF's and most importantly a 1/100 superstar lottery pick. Houston - Olajuwan. LA - Kobe. San Antonio - Duncan. Miami - Wade. Chicago - Jordan. Boston - Pierce. Soon to be Lebron and _______. That's how the league works genius. The fact that Dumars even won a championship, let alone a near second, is remarkable. He built a team that went to what? 6, 7 straight conference finals? He's had a couple down years and the last being depleted by injuries and he's the worst GM in the league?!?

He's made a few bad moves lately but the guy is one of the best out there. You're so off base. He'll get them back in contention soon enough.

You're ********.

EdGein812
07-03-2010, 05:58 AM
I think dumars. Was dumars the one who picked that bust darko over big time stars wade/melo/bosh?

Darko was the league ****ing consensus!!!

Only a few teams regarded Melo or anyone else higher than Darko you ****ing clowns.

He was the league consensus. Even if they didn't just draft Tayshaun they still wouldn't have taken Melo because Milicic was rated that high. Across the board. Across the league.

People are so ****ing ignorant.

EdGein812
07-03-2010, 05:59 AM
****!!!

kurivaimu
07-03-2010, 06:02 AM
Kahn by far. He just...is terrible.


Second is Dumars with his recent stellar activity.

Third, i have to go with Stefanski.

Tony_Starks
07-03-2010, 12:33 PM
My main thing with Dumars (once you get past the Darko debacle of course) is the Chauncey thing. The team was starting to underachieve but they could've just made minor adjustments like say Boston does, it wasn't time to panic the backcourt of him and Rip was still good. You gonna choose Stuckey over Chauncey? WHAT! Rip hasn't been the same since, nor has the team. That was the beginning of the end, not to mention the super extra random
a ss signings of Gordon and Charlie V.


That being said, David Kahn is still worse! And yeah I forgot about Larry Riley, he's damn horrible.

The Jokemaker
07-03-2010, 12:40 PM
Larry Riley of Golden state tops the cake. That team is a mess. Kahn in Minny is pretty bad. And the Bulls GM because lets not forget folks, 5 years ago (or whenver it was) the baby bulls were on the rise with hinrich, gordon, deng. Their GM however, decided not to trade for KG which would have definitely improved that team. Instead they signed big Ben wallace to that huge contract. I don't know if the Bulls still have that GM but that guy certainly made some blunders.

Melo15
07-03-2010, 12:56 PM
Kahn and Larry Riley are battling it out for the award lol

thesparky33
07-03-2010, 01:35 PM
David Khan because what success has he really had.
Darko for 5mil a year? C'mon.
Sorry he didnt get one of the league's worst teams to the playoffs in his first season with the team... He inherited the worst possible position.

I dont understand why you quoted him? He drafted Rubio knowing his intentions to play in a big market city. It was a waste of a #5 pick of which you gave up Foye+ Miller to trade for. Granted you still hold his rights, but what makes you so sure, He will play for you, and if at all you get equal value of what you gave up to acquire the 5th pick? I know Minny Fans will probably crucify me for this, but give me reasons why you think Flynn was a better pick at #6 then Stephen Curry?
You really dont know what you're talking about. I'm not going to defend Kahn because I'm a homer, but because we can't judge the Rubio pick until after Rubio comes over to the NBA. I can't guarantee that Rubio will be with the Wolves, but every indication I've seen, Ricky will be in Minnesota most likely next season if there isnt a lock-out. We hold his rights, so the only way he can play with a different team is if we trade him (or if he sits an entire year out from playing any professional ball, which will never happen).

Also, I must be ignorant, since I never knew about his demands to play in a big market city. Can you please give me the quote. Either that, or STFU. Thanks :).

thesparky33
07-03-2010, 01:51 PM
But my vote goes to probably Chris Wallace. And its not even about Thabeet at #2, because you can't judge a player after one year, especially a guy everyone knew would be a project, so I'll give him a pass on that one until a few years when we realize what his potential really is.

But giving up Gasol for peanuts is pretty bad, as well as giving Gay a max deal. He knew teams wanted Gay, and maybe he still has time, but if I were him, I would have done a S&T to maybe the Wolves, or whoever else was wanting him. I bet they could have pried away Al Jefferson from us (hope not), or someone else better, while not overpaying and shooting themselves in the foot.

specialiststeve
07-03-2010, 02:03 PM
Also agree with Sparky as McFail created the situation in MN and Kahn has a tough task to rebuild. He cleared out the bad contracts, has made them more athletic and with the additions this summer has improved their offense and defense. Not going to the playoffs yet but improving. Will be much improved with the kids being a year older.

mcgswfan
07-03-2010, 02:24 PM
Noone can top Larry Riley of Golden State

1.) Traded Jamal Crawford to ATL for Speedy Claxton, Acie Law

2.) Traded Stephen Jackson and Law for injured guard Raja Bell, and Vladimir Radmanovic. Warriors waived Bell.

3.) Traded Marco Belinelli for injured wing Devean George

4.) Signed FA Mikki Moore last season after promising a 'solid' FA. Warriors waived him mid-season.

5.) Traded Corey Maggette for Dan Gadzuric, Charlie Bell



6.) On top of that, he let the $10M exception he received for JRich expire

7.) Promised that the team would be active during last year's offseason, nothing happened

8.) Then promised to be active before the trade deadline mid year last season, again nothing happened

9.) He also waived Speedy Claxton's 5+M dollar contract as well as Bells 5+M dollar contract (as noted above) instead of trying to work out a deal in which that 10+M dollars could have gotten us a semi decent player in return, saved us some cap room, roster spots and landed someone healthy who might have actually been able to at least play and possibly even contribute. Instead they decided to round out the roster with D-Leaguers and ended up with more signed players that were injured then players that could play.

Wizard of O's
07-03-2010, 02:41 PM
Chris Wallace, Memphis

The Pau Gasol cap clearing move. Two championships and a third Finals appearance for the Lakers.

Meanwhile he overspends on Rudy Gay and Zach Randolph.

Don't understand the logic of the guy.

NBAfan4life
07-03-2010, 02:58 PM
I love people ripping on Kahn for passing on Curry when Curry excelled mainly in part to Don Nelson's system. If we would've drafted Curry instead of Flynn, Curry would've ran into a lot of problems as well trying to figure out the triangle system while Flynn would've killed with free reign in GS. Flynn would've posted better numbers in GS's system while Curry would've been lost in our new triangle system. Ppl would've been ripping on Kahn for not drafting Flynn instead. Plus, why draft a guy who doesn't even bother working out for you and makes it clear he doesn't want to be a part of your team?

You draft curry because he led the nation in scoring and is 6 ft 3 in. Flynn is what 5 ft 11 6 ft max. Your argument that Curry would did not want to play with us is invalid because Rubio really doesn't want to play with us either.

Curry>Flynn in any system

Nets fan 93
07-03-2010, 03:18 PM
The Clippers.

I mean cmon, you cant even convince the owner to show up to the LeBron interview.
TERRIBLE. Poor Clippers fans.

td0tsfinest
07-03-2010, 03:30 PM
Larry Riley is basically Don Nelson's pawn ♙
I don't even consider him a GM.

thesparky33
07-03-2010, 09:56 PM
The Clippers.

I mean cmon, you cant even convince the owner to show up to the LeBron interview.
TERRIBLE. Poor Clippers fans.

No, Clippers own the worst owner thread. And that would be unanimous, or at least should be. It's almost gotten so bad, that Stern should really step in and force Sterling to sell the team.

Raoul Duke
07-03-2010, 10:01 PM
Joe Dumars has been restricted slightly by the former owner who didnt want to pay Okur. Had Okur stayed with the Pistons, they would have had a much better front court rotation when Big Ben left for Chi-town and the Pistons would have been able to use the MLE that season for somebody other than Nazr. As for his signings last year, I agree they were horrible, and Dumars has been hit and miss in the draft.

Huh? We couldn't keep Okur because there was a clause in his contract that said he was automatically an unrestricted free agent after two years or some such nonsense. I'm pretty sure it was a clause common or standard for rookie contracts of 2nd round picks. The only way to keep him was to let 'Sheed walk. Okur is a good player, but Joe chose wisely.

The Jokemaker
07-03-2010, 10:17 PM
Chris Wallace, Memphis

The Pau Gasol cap clearing move. Two championships and a third Finals appearance for the Lakers.

Meanwhile he overspends on Rudy Gay and Zach Randolph.

Don't understand the logic of the guy.

He didn't give Zach that contract, he traded for him and he was an allstar last year. And he didn't make the final call on gay, that was the owner Heisley who had the real say in that. He was quoted months ago to match any offer to Gay and he upped his deal before a team had a chance. Other people may not understand but Gay is integral to what is going on here in Memphis.

And again, Gasol was doing nothing in Memphis and wanted out. He wasn't happy here and his play reflected it. He wasn't doing what a 16 million a year player is supposed to do. That move allowed the Grizzlies to rebuild, add some new guys (Randolph)and become competitive in 2 years. That's more than what the Twolves have done post KG. Oh and give the guy a little credit for making sure Marc was in that deal because if you havent noticed, he's a good player and one of the better C's in the league.

The Jokemaker
07-03-2010, 10:19 PM
But my vote goes to probably Chris Wallace. And its not even about Thabeet at #2, because you can't judge a player after one year, especially a guy everyone knew would be a project, so I'll give him a pass on that one until a few years when we realize what his potential really is.

But giving up Gasol for peanuts is pretty bad, as well as giving Gay a max deal. He knew teams wanted Gay, and maybe he still has time, but if I were him, I would have done a S&T to maybe the Wolves, or whoever else was wanting him. I bet they could have pried away Al Jefferson from us (hope not), or someone else better, while not overpaying and shooting themselves in the foot.

I'm sorry but I'd rather have Gay and his max deal than Al Jefferson and his 12 million a year deal and shaky health. Plus they kind of have a front court already so no real need for Al Jefferson or anything else the Twolves have to offer. And who else would have done a sign and trade, the heat, knicks? With what players? Everything they have (or dont have) the Grizz don't need.

xabial
07-03-2010, 10:24 PM
Sorry he didnt get one of the league's worst teams to the playoffs in his first season with the team... He inherited the worst possible position.

You really dont know what you're talking about. I'm not going to defend Kahn because I'm a homer, but because we can't judge the Rubio pick until after Rubio comes over to the NBA. I can't guarantee that Rubio will be with the Wolves, but every indication I've seen, Ricky will be in Minnesota most likely next season if there isnt a lock-out. We hold his rights, so the only way he can play with a different team is if we trade him (or if he sits an entire year out from playing any professional ball, which will never happen).

Also, I must be ignorant, since I never knew about his demands to play in a big market city. Can you please give me the quote. Either that, or STFU. Thanks :).

I guarentee you if a big market team like Sacremento/New York Drafted him he would be in the NBA right now. Thats the reason he isnt in the NBA and playing in Spain.Playing for a team like the Knicks/Sacremento will be a source of revenue because of Endorsements. Playing for the Twolves a small market team would make him lose money because he has to pay 8M out of his own pocket for the buyout and financially-wise Minnesota wouldnt make sense. Kahn even said they drafted him 5th to help out his Financial cause. (When your drafted higher you get paid more). For Now, It looks like he doesnt want to play for you Maybe years from now when he excercises his opt out clause in his contract with his New team we wouldnt be having this conversation because he wouldnt lose money playing for you.

Im not bothering searching back 1 year finding his quote that he prefers a big market city, because its a known fact thats why he's in Spain right now. I mean why else would you declare for the NBA draft and then choose to stay in Spain? Some of it had to do with his ego but most of it was because of his financial situation.

thesparky33
07-04-2010, 02:08 AM
I guarentee you if a big market team like Sacremento/New York Drafted him he would be in the NBA right now. Thats the reason he isnt in the NBA and playing in Spain.Playing for a team like the Knicks/Sacremento will be a source of revenue because of Endorsements. Playing for the Twolves a small market team would make him lose money because he has to pay 8M out of his own pocket for the buyout and financially-wise Minnesota wouldnt make sense. Kahn even said they drafted him 5th to help out his Financial cause. (When your drafted higher you get paid more). For Now, It looks like he doesnt want to play for you Maybe years from now when he excercises his opt out clause in his contract with his New team we wouldnt be having this conversation because he wouldnt lose money playing for you.

Im not bothering searching back 1 year finding his quote that he prefers a big market city, because its a known fact thats why he's in Spain right now. I mean why else would you declare for the NBA draft and then choose to stay in Spain? Some of it had to do with his ego but most of it was because of his financial situation.

Big market like Sacramento? The Twin Cities (Minneapolis/St. Paul) is a larger market than Sacramento.

Also, looks like you're making excuses on why you can't back up what you said. Pathetic. Find me the quote, or shut up already.

Reason I am asking for a quote, is because Rubio never said anything of the sort. He said himself that if he was to be drafted into the top 2 or 3, he could afford the buyout, but never said anything about wanting to play in a big market.

The Jokemaker
07-04-2010, 02:25 AM
Popular opinion is that the Wolves, who have a solid young PG in Jonny Flynn, are looking to trade Rubio, perhaps to move up or get more picks in the 2010 Draft. It doesn’t seem anybody in Minnesota really expects last summer’s sensation will ever play for their team, but even if Rubio’s rights wind up in New York or another big market like his people wanted in the first place, he won’t be coming to the NBA until 2011-12.

http://dimemag.com/2010/05/ricky-rubio-update-euroleague-championship-nba-trade-rumors/

EdGein812
07-04-2010, 03:49 AM
Kahn by far. He just...is terrible.


Second is Dumars with his recent stellar activity.

Third, i have to go with Stefanski.

Dumars has been a GM for 10 years. He already has a championship, a near second, and went to 6 conference finals in a row on a team that he brilliantly and methodically built from nothing. Did you see the state of the franchise before he took over???

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.

EdGein812
07-04-2010, 04:44 AM
My main thing with Dumars (once you get past the Darko debacle of course) is the Chauncey thing. The team was starting to underachieve but they could've just made minor adjustments like say Boston does, it wasn't time to panic the backcourt of him and Rip was still good. You gonna choose Stuckey over Chauncey? WHAT! Rip hasn't been the same since, nor has the team. That was the beginning of the end, not to mention the super extra random
a ss signings of Gordon and Charlie V.


That being said, David Kahn is still worse! And yeah I forgot about Larry Riley, he's damn horrible.

In the annual GM survey, Dumars is consistantly voted by HIS PEERS as one of the best in the biz. I think that says enough.

Darko was the consensus pick around the entire league after Lebron. People were salivating over this kid. I'm thinking most of you who harp on the Milicic pick must be about 15 and have no true recollection of the draft. At the time, there were maybe a few GM's who favorited Carmelo. A FEW. Milicic was the league consensus. For one, you always take a chance on a 7 footer with that kind of talent. ALWAYS. You always take a chance on a Greg Oden. On a Darko Milicic. On a Shaquille O'neal. Guards are a dime a dozen and are easily replaceable. If I have to explain to you why you take that chance on an extremely talented big man, then you simply don't understand basketball. Big men will always get the edge. Always. Then beyond the fact that they - like all of the other scouts and GM's - liked Milicic over Anthony (and the rest,) had just drafted Tayshaun Prince the year before; making it clear cut. Sometimes it doesn't work out but that doesn't mean it was the wrong move. Of course you can always make the right move in hindsight - but it doesn't work like that. At the time it was the right move - and for so many reasons. Sometimes life's a *****.

Again, you guys have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

EdGein812
07-04-2010, 05:14 AM
Chauncey was an aging PG who got burned the previous 2 years in the playoffs by smaller quicker guards. Billups was getting absolutely murdered by the younger speedier guards coming up, like Rondo, and at the time, most everyone liked the move. It made a ton of sense.

Though hindsight is always 20/20, Iverson was a joke, Billups had a lot more to contribute, and Hamilton's game would suffer.

It's a lose / lose situation for Dumars anyways. It goes back to the debate, similar to what the Celtics are trying to figure out right now. Do you trade away your top players when they have a little more value or do you hold on to them for a couple more years and go for another title or two? People will always doubt the move you DIDN'T do - because they can. It's easy. To a point you'll never be wrong and always be right. There's no way to prove you wrong. Of course you can say it was the wrong move now, and you can pretend to look intelligent and appear right all you want to, but you don't know how things would've turned out otherwise. Dumars has hit on more trades than he's missed, he's hit on more draft picks than he's missed, and that's better than 90% of the league. The best part is he's still learning. This is only his second team here. His first was an absolute masterpiece. I can't wait to see what Dumars has up his sleeve. I guarantee, in the next 2 years, we will be back amongst the top teams in the east. Guarantee.

Allstar21
07-04-2010, 05:40 AM
lol
Dumars is not "great"

he is nowhere near the worst GM in the league but he is not great
He made a couple good moves and a couple bad moves (im not even talking about darko...that was a bad move in hindsight but really the best move at the time. his scouts are to blame just as much as he is)

nobody is worse than Kahn..passing on cousins, taking 6million point guards in the draft but not taking evans or jennings, not dealing al jefferson who obviously doesn't want to be there
really.....what has kahn done right???

If you were building a team from scratch would you want any of the timberwolves players??.....maybe Love, maybe Flynn....but those are 6th-8th man type players on a good team. Jefferson could start for a different team and MIGHT be successful but his health problems and attitude would really scare people. Plus he has never put up numbers for a winning team....ever

EdGein812
07-04-2010, 05:54 AM
Kahn and Larry Riley are battling it out for the award lol

Your signature is dumb as hell.

"For the guy above that listed Dirk, Duncan, Howard, and Bosh as better than Rose..........get a clue dude. Rose would school all of them in a 1 on 1 game. That is how you truly know who's is the better all-around player."

I hope to god you are mocking him. Rose is in no-way whatsoever a better player than anyone you listed. That's probably the most inaccurate and extreme statement I've ever read on here. Duncan and Nowitzki are aging but will go down in history waaaay higher regarded than Rose ever will. To be fair though, Rose is young and still has a lot of time to stake his claim in the game. As of now - helllll no.

They play different positions so a one-on-one ballgame wouldn't prove anything. Rose would kill the perimeter and all the others are big guys who would kill him down low. I think he would actually lose everyone of those games. He'd have to shoot near perfection cos he wouldn't get many rebounds. The big guys would back down all-day. It wouldn't even be fair. Sorry.

EdGein812
07-04-2010, 06:32 AM
lol
Dumars is not "great"

he is nowhere near the worst GM in the league but he is not great
He made a couple good moves and a couple bad moves (im not even talking about darko...that was a bad move in hindsight but really the best move at the time. his scouts are to blame just as much as he is)

nobody is worse than Kahn..passing on cousins, taking 6million point guards in the draft but not taking evans or jennings, not dealing al jefferson who obviously doesn't want to be there
really.....what has kahn done right???

If you were building a team from scratch would you want any of the timberwolves players??.....maybe Love, maybe Flynn....but those are 6th-8th man type players on a good team. Jefferson could start for a different team and MIGHT be successful but his health problems and attitude would really scare people. Plus he has never put up numbers for a winning team....ever

That's funny cos the actual GM's in the actual league think otherwise. I don't think there's anything more telling than peer review.

Dumar's has made more than "a few" good moves by the way. He actually had to build that championship team. The Lakers were terrible and were lucky to draft Kobe. The Spurs were terrible at the right time and were lucky to get Duncan. The Bulls were terrible at the right time and lucky enough to get Jordan. The Rockets were terrible at the right time and lucky enough to get Hakeem Olajuwan. Who else? The Celtics had HOF Paul Pierce and were "blessed" by the league and awarded Garnett. The Heat had HOF's Dwayne Wade and Shaquille O'neal.

What HOF's were the Pistons lucky enough to have fall on their laps? Grant Hill would've been. But that's all it takes to win in the NBA, you see that right? What Dumar's did - in that landscape - was no doubt, a remarkable feat. To actually have to build a champion and not just end up lucky. What has Clevelands franchise ever done right? The best move they ever made wasn't a move at all but fate and luck and landing Lebron, more so than any strategized "move" they've ever made. Same goes for all of the other champions the last 20 years. Their championships had more to do with luck and landing a HOF superstar with the top pick than actually building an awful team from the ground up like Dumars did. Who's going to be in the next round of champions? Will it be the team that some GM has to build together piece by piece, through the draft, free agency, and trades or the team that ends up with Lebron???

Exactly.

What Dumars did was no fluke.

EdGein812
07-04-2010, 06:47 AM
Do you know how bad the Pistons were before Joe D took over? Seriously?

And anyways, if their entire team wasn't decimated by injuries like they were last year, we would've at the very least been a 7 or 8 seed and we wouldn't even be having this conversation right now.

magichatnumber9
07-04-2010, 07:32 AM
It's official we can at least put Danny Ainge in consideration.

Raoul Duke
07-04-2010, 11:05 AM
Ed, just leave it be. If someone wants to prove how little they know with a single post, then let them. I mean seriously, this thread is about as informative and unbiased as Fox News. One guy listed Mitch Kupchak as the worst GM.

Detroit w/Joe has a record of 482 regular season wins against 338 regular season losses for the last 10 years. So, on his watch, the team has won 58.7% of their games in the regular season. Pretty damn good. They've also played in 133 playoff games, with a record of 73 wins and 60 losses. Again, well over .500 at 54.8%. Damn good playoff record for a ten year stretch. I won't even bother listing off the milestones, but you get the idea. Most of you have watched basketball for more than two years, so you remember. Or at least you should.

I could list 10 GMs who are worse than Dumars, but I won't just name off guys who obviously suck. I'd go as far as to say that Dumars has done a far better job over the last ten years than Pat Riley, Donnie Walsh, Steve Kerr, Bryan Colangelo, and a bunch of others, becuase he did a **** of a lot more with a **** of a lot less.

xabial
07-04-2010, 02:25 PM
Big market like Sacramento? The Twin Cities (Minneapolis/St. Paul) is a larger market than Sacramento.

Also, looks like you're making excuses on why you can't back up what you said. Pathetic. Find me the quote, or shut up already.

Reason I am asking for a quote, is because Rubio never said anything of the sort. He said himself that if he was to be drafted into the top 2 or 3, he could afford the buyout, but never said anything about wanting to play in a big market.

To your credit he never actually gave a direct quote of why he's staying. But majority reports say it was because he was losing money and he would have played in Sacremento/Ny But not Minny/Oklohoma city/Memphis and i believe them. Lets just agree to disagree. He's going to be playing for you in in a couple of years because he got traded to another Euro team willing to reduce the buyout, and include a cheap opt out clause in his contract to go play in the NBA. Be happy, stop arguing! Lol


According to DraftExpress' Jonathan Givony, Rubio's camp, led by agent Dan Fegan, has given off signs that "he's not interested in the least bit in playing in Memphis.

"Rubio doesn't want to go to Memphis, and he especially does not want to pay money out of his own pocket with that huge buyout for the honor of doing so. Fegan [Rubio's agent] wants him in L.A., and if he can't have him there, he wants him in Sacramento. Definitely not Oklahoma City

Here's a quote from draft express which i find to be pretty credible.
If you dont believe it then i give up in trying to argue with you :)

What?
07-04-2010, 03:29 PM
Dumars has been a GM for 10 years. He already has a championship, a near second, and went to 6 conference finals in a row on a team that he brilliantly and methodically built from nothing. Did you see the state of the franchise before he took over???

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.

Dumars lost his touch. He overpayed Villanueva, Gordon.
He gave a old Richard Hamiliton a big contract.
Biggest crime was trading Chauncey Billups for AI.

That team is going to be a lottery team for the next 2-4 years at least with maybe 1 playoff appearance. Dumars glory days are over.

thesparky33
07-04-2010, 07:28 PM
To your credit he never actually gave a direct quote of why he's staying. But majority reports say it was because he was losing money and he would have played in Sacremento/Ny But not Minny/Oklohoma city/Memphis and i believe them. Lets just agree to disagree. He's going to be playing for you in in a couple of years because he got traded to another Euro team willing to reduce the buyout, and include a cheap opt out clause in his contract to go play in the NBA. Be happy, stop arguing! Lol


According to DraftExpress' Jonathan Givony, Rubio's camp, led by agent Dan Fegan, has given off signs that "he's not interested in the least bit in playing in Memphis.

"Rubio doesn't want to go to Memphis, and he especially does not want to pay money out of his own pocket with that huge buyout for the honor of doing so. Fegan [Rubio's agent] wants him in L.A., and if he can't have him there, he wants him in Sacramento. Definitely not Oklahoma City

Here's a quote from draft express which i find to be pretty credible.
If you dont believe it then i give up in trying to argue with you :)
I appreciate the quote, but it was an opinion piece rather than a quote from his agent or Rubio himself. The only reason I'm being stubborn on this, is because all summer long last year, everyone assumed (including the media) that Rubio only wanted to play in a big market, was greedy etc, yet I never saw one quote from him or his agent saying anything about it.

But I do appreciate the quote.

Also, would people's perceptions of Khan be changed if Rubio comes over next summer, and lets say the Wolves become a .500 team that season?

xabial
07-04-2010, 10:38 PM
I appreciate the quote, but it was an opinion piece rather than a quote from his agent or Rubio himself. The only reason I'm being stubborn on this, is because all summer long last year, everyone assumed (including the media) that Rubio only wanted to play in a big market, was greedy etc, yet I never saw one quote from him or his agent saying anything about it.

But I do appreciate the quote.

Also, would people's perceptions of Khan be changed if Rubio comes over next summer, and lets say the Wolves become a .500 team that season?

If Kahn changes the mess he inherited to a .500 team, then he would be a top 3 Gm in my book.
Lets face it, Wolves fans have been suffering really hard in recent years. Recently, You guys have had really bad seasons and really high draft picks. If Kahn is able to change the team with the 2nd worst record last year to a .500 team using Ricky Rubio and change your losing culture for the future then i gotta admit, i'll be jealous your rebuilding process was that short.

JWO35
07-04-2010, 11:27 PM
Yep....Dumars is a horrible GM, 6 straight ECF appearances and 1 NBA Championship. In his 10yrs in Detroit

Tony_Starks
07-04-2010, 11:30 PM
That's funny cos the actual GM's in the actual league think otherwise. I don't think there's anything more telling than peer review.

Dumar's has made more than "a few" good moves by the way. He actually had to build that championship team. The Lakers were terrible and were lucky to draft Kobe. The Spurs were terrible at the right time and were lucky to get Duncan. The Bulls were terrible at the right time and lucky enough to get Jordan. The Rockets were terrible at the right time and lucky enough to get Hakeem Olajuwan. Who else? The Celtics had HOF Paul Pierce and were "blessed" by the league and awarded Garnett. The Heat had HOF's Dwayne Wade and Shaquille O'neal.

What HOF's were the Pistons lucky enough to have fall on their laps? Grant Hill would've been. But that's all it takes to win in the NBA, you see that right? What Dumar's did - in that landscape - was no doubt, a remarkable feat. To actually have to build a champion and not just end up lucky. What has Clevelands franchise ever done right? The best move they ever made wasn't a move at all but fate and luck and landing Lebron, more so than any strategized "move" they've ever made. Same goes for all of the other champions the last 20 years. Their championships had more to do with luck and landing a HOF superstar with the top pick than actually building an awful team from the ground up like Dumars did. Who's going to be in the next round of champions? Will it be the team that some GM has to build together piece by piece, through the draft, free agency, and trades or the team that ends up with Lebron???

Exactly.

What Dumars did was no fluke.



Whoa whoa whoa hold your horses my friend. First off Lakers didn't draft Kobe they traded up to get him. Seems like semantics but the only reason they were able to trade up is they had amassed tradeable assets through the draft .i.e. Vlade, Van Exel, Eddie Jones, Anthony Peeler. Marbury was actually their first choice but they wanted Vlade AND Peeler as opposed to Charlotte who was in need of a center and settled for just Vlade. Lakers also drafted D Fish that year by the way. Then after having all those pieces in place they had an attractive team to sign Shaq. Still that wasn't enough because they didn't have the proper coach. A few years later they add Phil plus a few vets.... I believe you know the rest.

Luck? I think not buddy. THATS building a championship. That was 1999 and they're still winning because they still keep making good moves.

Dumars isn't continuing to make good moves. Personel wise and also coaching wise his judgement has been getting worse.

3RDASYSTEM
07-04-2010, 11:40 PM
If ya speaking on current as past 2/3 yrs then you cant leave out Sterling/Sarver, and Dumars won a title and went to back to back Finals and 6 strait ECF,he's basically exempt from this list by default(resume is too strong)...but GM's from PHI/MEM was horrible in early 2000's and even before..its a nice list if people do some actual research on it instead of talking about the past 2 drafts,that dont make you worst GM,just makes you on that path to be.....if DET would have use AI like AI, instead of like BILLUPS then that trade wouldnt have looked as lopsided, though its really even trade given the fact DEN lost in 1st round to injured Jazz squad...WCF to 1st round exit the next season...and then DET gets those 2 UCONN products after making blockbuster trade to get that 22mil xpire contract which would have came in handy this summer to offer any free agent and maybe DET would have had the number one pick depending on record being even worse than it was this yr....they didnt lie when they said this is where ''AMAZING'' happens

FLWolvesFan
07-04-2010, 11:44 PM
lol
nobody is worse than Kahn..passing on cousins, taking 6million point guards in the draft but not taking evans or jennings, not dealing al jefferson who obviously doesn't want to be there
really.....what has kahn done right???

If you were building a team from scratch would you want any of the timberwolves players??.....maybe Love, maybe Flynn....but those are 6th-8th man type players on a good team. Jefferson could start for a different team and MIGHT be successful but his health problems and attitude would really scare people. Plus he has never put up numbers for a winning team....ever

Just playing nice.....You should probably research statements before you post. Cousins is a project, a high ceiling-mega project much like Thabeet in last years draft. Look at all the tall frontcourt players(C-PF) picked in the last 4 or 5 drafts and tell me which high draft picks made a difference, I can think of one and his name was Dwight Howard and the year was 2005. Flynn's gotta ton of upside and had a good year-he may very well be a 6th man type of player or a solid starter. Love is a 2nd or 3rd best player on a playoff team, seriously he's that talented. Jefferson is a great, albeit limited player who's had one injury.

LAR1V1ERE
07-04-2010, 11:47 PM
Colangelo because he has a hard on for eurotrash.

Raoul Duke
07-05-2010, 12:14 AM
Dumars isn't continuing to make good moves. Personel wise and also coaching wise his judgement has been getting worse.

Y'know, I can dig that logic, but two bad years, one of which saw us at least make the playoffs, doesn't make him the worst in the NBA. That's an incredible stretch. Refer to my post where I actually listed facts to back up my argument.

dapistons755
07-05-2010, 12:26 AM
Joe Dumars is such a good GM that he actually looks bad to most people at first. Think about it, People flipped out when he traded Hill for two nobody's named Ben Wallace and Chucky Atkins. The fans continued to panic when Stackhouse (the teams leading scorer) was traded for a very young and unexperienced Richard Hamiliton. Then he traded away most of his bench to get a troublemaker named Sheed when we already had Memo. Worked out pretty well then didn't it? He's rebuilding people. Give him time. He is building a "team" not a couple of stars who get some role players like everyone else. I expect the Pistons to make a significant trade sometime before next season's trade deadline which will finally show us all exactly what Dumars is trying to put together. Until then cut him some slack.

Team*Chicago
07-05-2010, 12:47 AM
I say Joe Dumars, how the hell the Pistons went from being a championship contending fearsome team to a lame losing team that everybody can beat easily.

The Jokemaker
07-05-2010, 01:01 AM
It's official we can at least put Danny Ainge in consideration.

Anybody that signs Brian Scalabrine to a multi year multi million dollar contract definitely has to be put in the worst GM discussion. And just imagine how bad and criticized he would be for trading the #5 pick for an old Ray allen to team with Paul Pierce without the KG trade ever happening.

Gotta give him props for picking up Rondo though.

Raoul Duke
07-05-2010, 01:12 AM
I say Joe Dumars, how the hell the Pistons went from being a championship contending fearsome team to a lame losing team that everybody can beat easily.

Do you really want to start a discussion on Bulls management? I think even intelligent Bulls fans are with me on this one...

Rego247
07-05-2010, 01:15 AM
Colangelo because he has a hard on for eurotrash.

kahn because he has a hard on for garbage players.

The Jokemaker
07-05-2010, 01:21 AM
I can only think of two knocks against Joe Dumars. Hiring Flip Saunders and singing Villanueva. I don't think the Gordon deal was that bad but he essentially used up their cap space from the Billups deal on two role players when the team didn't have a star to build around. Other than that I think he has done a good job and it's hard to criticize him too much for that Milicic pick because 1) it was acquired from Memphis years ago and was essentially a bonus pick and 2) everyone thought he was going to be an incredible player and anybody else in that #2 spot would have taken him. The real problem with Milicic was that he never was able to properly develop in the league because his playing time was so little in his early years. That's a coaching decision and not a Dumars one.

PurpleJesus
07-05-2010, 02:17 PM
David Khan by far. Dumars is a very close second though. I believe Kahn's recent Darko signing proves he's still the champ!

lol at this post

IndiansFan337
07-05-2010, 03:55 PM
The GM of the Warriors. They don't seem to have a real plan.

Raoul Duke
07-05-2010, 07:13 PM
The GM of the Warriors. They don't seem to have a real plan.

And Cleveland does?

pistonsfanomg
07-05-2010, 07:16 PM
I say Joe Dumars, how the hell the Pistons went from being a championship contending fearsome team to a lame losing team that everybody can beat easily.

typical bulls fan

Gators123
07-05-2010, 07:20 PM
typical bulls fan

Don't even listen to him, Bulls haven't been relevant in over 10 years.

drobe86
07-05-2010, 07:28 PM
Gotta take Mike Pritchard in this one. Anyone that picks Oden over Durant isn't an NBA GM. Blazers can finally do some things now that they aren't handicapped by that loser...

Baldyy
07-05-2010, 07:49 PM
David Khan by far. Dumars is a very close second though. I believe Kahn's recent Darko signing proves he's still the champ!

that makes sense

uws
07-05-2010, 08:00 PM
props to walshhhh


and his protage kahn

EdGein812
07-06-2010, 03:11 AM
I can only think of two knocks against Joe Dumars. Hiring Flip Saunders and singing Villanueva. I don't think the Gordon deal was that bad but he essentially used up their cap space from the Billups deal on two role players when the team didn't have a star to build around. Other than that I think he has done a good job and it's hard to criticize him too much for that Milicic pick because 1) it was acquired from Memphis years ago and was essentially a bonus pick and 2) everyone thought he was going to be an incredible player and anybody else in that #2 spot would have taken him. The real problem with Milicic was that he never was able to properly develop in the league because his playing time was so little in his early years. That's a coaching decision and not a Dumars one.

Flip's not the best coach in the world, but give me a break. How can you call that a mistake. Who would you have grabbed that was available? If I recall correctly he was around for 3 seasons and had 3 pretty successful seasons. Nothing miraculous but definitely not close to bad.

Villanueva has been here 1 year. The guy is only 26 years old and is a 6'11 forward with tremendous talent. To be fair, that was a bad year, but he was battling injuries the entire year on a team that was also devastated with injuries. You can't decide if that move was good or bad until his time here is done.

xabial
07-06-2010, 03:35 AM
Gotta take Mike Pritchard in this one. Anyone that picks Oden over Durant isn't an NBA GM. Blazers can finally do some things now that they aren't handicapped by that loser...

He traded for the draft rights of Brandon Roy. He traded for the draft rights of Lamarcus Aldridge. And he drafted Greg Oden who was the "John Wall/ Blake Griffin" of the 2007 draft. Oden was the consensous #1 pick. Its like if the Wizards Drafted turner instead of Wall. Nobody expected Oden to have an injury plagued career no-matter what way you look at it. Any GM in the league if they were in Portlands position would have drafted Oden. In Fact when Donnie Walsh Retires this man would be my #1 option to replace him. I dont facepalm many messages, but that sure deserved one. :speechless:







:facepalm:

THE MTL
07-06-2010, 04:12 AM
Whoever the Pacers got is AWFUL! Hasnt ever done a relevant move.

But I would still say Isiah Thomas! The guy has been gone for over two years now and Knicks fans still feel the BURN is. Curry's contract and no 2010 pick.

ldc62
07-06-2010, 04:33 AM
Gotta take Mike Pritchard in this one. Anyone that picks Oden over Durant isn't an NBA GM. Blazers can finally do some things now that they aren't handicapped by that loser...

You always take a supposedly next great big man over a wing... even though that clearly backfired. But Pritchard made many other moves before that pick which were great.


Gotta go with Kahn for now...

ldc62
07-06-2010, 04:34 AM
Whoever the Pacers got is AWFUL! Hasnt ever done a relevant move.

But I would still say Isiah Thomas! The guy has been gone for over two years now and Knicks fans still feel the BURN is. Curry's contract and no 2010 pick.

David Morway but clearly Bird is the one making all the important decisions...

EdGein812
07-06-2010, 05:10 AM
Dumars lost his touch. He overpayed Villanueva, Gordon.
He gave a old Richard Hamiliton a big contract.
Biggest crime was trading Chauncey Billups for AI.

That team is going to be a lottery team for the next 2-4 years at least with maybe 1 playoff appearance. Dumars glory days are over.

Ok, guy. Dumars lost his touch...in 2 years. He had 8 phenomenal years. Built a masterpiece of a team. Then, whoops, lost his touch...in 2 years...

This is only his second team he's ever built. He did an unbelievable job with the first. You have to give it a couple more years with this team here, he's not done.

Look at the contracts being given out now!!!
__________________________________________________ _______________


Darko Milicic just got a 4 year, 20 millions dollar contract. 5 mil a year.

G GS MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
32 18 21 49% 0% 54% 1.5 3.3 4.7 1.5 0.7 1.1 1.1 2.6 6.7


Amir Johnson just got a 5 year, 34 million dollar contract. 7 mil a year.

G GS MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG 82 5 18 63% 0% 64% 1.9 2.9 4.8 0.6 0.5 0.8 0.8 3.1 6.2


Brendan Haywood is looking for at least 10 million a year, though it's yet to be seen what he actually gets. 10 mil a year.

G GS MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
77 67 31 56% 0% 62% 3.6 5.7 9.3 0.6 0.3 2.0 1.3 2.7 9.1


Charlie Villanueva recieved a 5 year, 35 million dollar contract. 7 mil a year. (Stat line for his final year in Milwaukee - which is most relevant to his contract.)

G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
78 47 27 45% 35% 84% 2.0 4.7 6.7 1.8 0.6 0.7 1.8 3.3 16.2

__________________________________________________ _______________


Joe Johnson just got a 6 year, 119 million dollar contract. 20 mil a year.

G GS MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
76 76 38 46% 37% 82% 1.0 3.7 4.6 4.9 1.1 0.1 1.9 1.9 21.3


Ben Gordon got a 5 year, 58 million dollar contract. 11.5 mil a year. (Stat line for his final year in Chicago - which is most relevant to his contract.)

G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
82 76 37 46% 41% 86% 0.6 2.8 3.5 3.4 0.9 0.3 2.4 2.2 20.7

__________________________________________________ _______________


So seriously, how bad of contracts are they??? Again, you people are absolutely clueless. Both Gordon and Villanueva went through injury plagued years, and both were players who've always been healthy their entire careers till that point. In addition, that entire team was in complete disarray with injuries the entire year. Let's not jump the gun here. If that team would have been healthy, that alone would have made them a .500 / playoff team.

And Dumars strategy was brilliant. Knowing that no elite superstar would end up in Detroit, and clearing out cap space like 10 other teams with no chance did, he went ahead and was proactive and got two of the top free agents out there. Both young and budding, with room to grow. There's still moves out there to be made and I expect at least one or two significant moves before the season even starts.

EdGein812
07-06-2010, 05:18 AM
"Biggest crime was trading Chauncey Billups for AI."

Chauncey was an aging PG who got burned the previous 2 years in the playoffs by smaller quicker guards. Billups was getting absolutely murdered by the younger speedier guards coming up, like Rondo, and at the time, most everyone liked the move. It made a ton of sense.

It turned out to be a bummer, but you can't get every move right. Have you seen the list of trades this guy has made over his career. It's so lopsided in his favor, it's laughable.

But yeah, he had two absolutely terrible performances in a row in the playoffs and took a huge amount of the blame for not getting them further. Dumars vowed to shake things up after another trip to the conference finals and another loss. That combined with a chance to add a HOF scorer to a team in desperate need of scoring, and trading him while he still had value, were major components. Most everyone was thrilled with the trade at the time. It did not work out. It's easy to criticize in hindsight.

EdGein812
07-06-2010, 05:51 AM
Whoa whoa whoa hold your horses my friend. First off Lakers didn't draft Kobe they traded up to get him. Seems like semantics but the only reason they were able to trade up is they had amassed tradeable assets through the draft .i.e. Vlade, Van Exel, Eddie Jones, Anthony Peeler. Marbury was actually their first choice but they wanted Vlade AND Peeler as opposed to Charlotte who was in need of a center and settled for just Vlade. Lakers also drafted D Fish that year by the way. Then after having all those pieces in place they had an attractive team to sign Shaq. Still that wasn't enough because they didn't have the proper coach. A few years later they add Phil plus a few vets.... I believe you know the rest.

Luck? I think not buddy. THATS building a championship. That was 1999 and they're still winning because they still keep making good moves.

Dumars isn't continuing to make good moves. Personel wise and also coaching wise his judgement has been getting worse.


Whoa, whoa, whoa. You get the point. They traded for a high draft pick who turned out to be a HOF superstar. That's the one discrepancy from the other 6 teams, and it's barely any different smart ***. You get the ****in' point.

The fact that Kobe turned into Kobe is "luck." The fact that Jordan turned into Jordan is "luck." Of course there's some skill involved in selecting that player, but it's still nothing more than an educated guess. How many lottery picks that are expected to be superstars never are. When you get a hit, there's no doubt, a bit of luck involved. When they turn out to be HOF's you're definitely lucky. Ask the FO if they knew that Kobe Bryant was going to be a superstar HOF'er when they traded for him? They'll say HELL NO, but we'll take it.

Getting that budding superstar then makes building a team way, way easier. Especially when you're in the basketball mecca of LA.

When you're a major city and one that's historically rich, it makes it that much easier. You think if LA wasn't LA they would've gotten Pau Gasol for dirt? You think the Celtics would've been able to put together the big 3 like that if it wasn't the Boston Celtics.

Sure, they did a good job putting that team together, but let's be realistic here. Being the Los Angeles Lakers gives a huge advantage over 75% of the league and an edge on the other 15%. That's the truth. Not trying to take anything away from them because that franchise earned it but it's true.

EdGein812
07-07-2010, 09:20 PM
That's what I thought, *******s. :)

Raoul Duke
07-07-2010, 09:24 PM
Gotta take Mike Pritchard in this one. Anyone that picks Oden over Durant isn't an NBA GM. Blazers can finally do some things now that they aren't handicapped by that loser...

Do you mean Kevin Pritchard? Sigh...

Yeah, Portland will get back to all that glory from the pre-Pritchard era! Y'know, when the entire league knew them as THE JAILBLAZERS. Thanks for the insight, guy.

uknowmyname
07-07-2010, 10:05 PM
I don't know how everyone is bashing Dumars. This is the first year the Pistons missed the playoffs in years.

Teams with the worst GM's
Minnesota
New York
Golden State

Allstar21
07-07-2010, 10:16 PM
i think Kahn looking at signing Luke Rindour after they already have 1million PG's helps boost him further up the ladder to #1 worst GM

EdGein812
07-07-2010, 11:15 PM
I don't know how everyone is bashing Dumars. This is the first year the Pistons missed the playoffs in years.

Teams with the worst GM's
Minnesota
New York
Golden State

And what have these teams done in the last 10 years...?

Memphis Grizzlies
Indiana Pacers
Milwaukee Bucks
LA Clippers
Toronto Raptors
Chicago Bulls
Washington Wizards
Sacramento Kings
New Jersey Nets
Philadelphia 76ers

Charlotte Bobcats (- though they don't really count.)

How many championships have these teams won? How many conference finals have they been to? How many times have these teams even made the playoffs?

And Joe Dumars did all of this without getting lucky and drafting a superstar like every other championship or contending team that's out there.

EdGein812
07-07-2010, 11:19 PM
Dumars is the man. He is one of the most renowned and respected GM's in the entire league. Anyone who thinks he's the worst GM in the league has to be a total inbred.

ldc62
07-07-2010, 11:23 PM
And what have these teams done in the last 10 years...?

Memphis Grizzlies
Indiana Pacers
Milwaukee Bucks
LA Clippers
Toronto Raptors
Chicago Bulls
Washington Wizards
Sacramento Kings
New Jersey Nets
Philadelphia 76ers

Charlotte Bobcats (- though they don't really count.)

How many championships have these teams won? How many conference finals have they been to? How many times have these teams even made the playoffs?

And Joe Dumars did all of this without getting lucky and drafting a superstar like every other championship or contending team that's out there.

Not our fault he drafted Darko. But I agree that Dumars is NOT a bad GM... however most fans are short sighted and only remember things that happen within a 2 year span.

mark1125
07-07-2010, 11:25 PM
Not our fault he drafted Darko. But I agree that Dumars is NOT a bad GM... however most fans are short sighted and only remember things that happen within a 2 year span.

X2

Short memories and huge homers. About 3/4 of the league would soil themselves if they had a GM that did what Dumars did for most of the last 6-7 yrs (not the last 2)

j-bay
07-07-2010, 11:26 PM
the gm of the wizards is ok but he did not do a good job of controling gilbert

EdGein812
07-08-2010, 02:26 AM
Not our fault he drafted Darko. But I agree that Dumars is NOT a bad GM... however most fans are short sighted and only remember things that happen within a 2 year span.

True, but read the previous posts regarding Darko - it's not a pick that surprised people or caught people off guard. This wasn't some obscure pick that Joe pulled out of nowhere, like he's known to do. At the time, he made the right move.

For one, Darko was the league consensus for the number 2 pick - he was viewed that highly across the board, by about 90 - 95% of the scouts and GM's. People don't realize, that if this wasn't Lebron's draft, Darko would've went number one overall. Milicic was viewed that highly and was supposed to be that kind of player. Teams were absolutely in love with this kid.

For two, they drafted Tayshaun Prince, who had just cemented his role on this team for years to come with a fantastic breakout performance in the playoffs.

Again, in hindsight, you can always be right. You can always pretend to be intelligent by going with the obvious decision, 6 - 7 years after the fact, and criticize past mistakes. Criticize people who are way smarter, than you'll ever be. Criticize people that know way more about basketball, than you ever will.
To have the awareness and knowledge to see the reality of the situation that was at hand, is a whole 'nother level of honesty and intelligence.

Yes, it was a mistake...and yes, it was still the correct move. Sometimes the correct move doesn't work out. This is life. It happens. Just because it didn't work out - doesn't mean Dumars is a bad GM by any means.

Even if you do all of your homework and go above and beyond your role in scouting and drafting these players, it is still nothing more than an educated guess. That's all the draft is. An educated guess. If one player is rated higher; has better scores, has had a better amateur career, has a better workout, is a better physical specimen, and has better intangibles, etc. - do you act logically and go with said player - or do you go against everything and everyone and pick the player rated lower. Factor in that he just drafted a promising SF the previous year. And factor in that the said player is 7 feet tall - and we all know that big men always get the edge. Sometimes the lower rated player goes on to bigger and better things, but that doesn't mean you made the wrong choice. Because more times than not - you'll get it right, and that's all you can ask for with an educated guess. Darko was one that unfortunately, did not work out.

I think this recent draft, with Dumars making his second lottery pick as a GM, in the eyes of the fans, could make or break him here in Detroit. Greg Monroe is extremely vital to this team and even more so to Joe Dumars. I do, however, like the pick.

PHX2daDEATH
07-08-2010, 02:37 AM
the gm of the wizards is ok but he did not do a good job of controling gilbert

I would say he IS the worse... how much cap-space do the wizards have? Did they even attempt to talk to LeBron or did Miss Cleo scare them away.

arkanian215
07-08-2010, 03:00 AM
And what have these teams done in the last 10 years...?

Memphis Grizzlies
Indiana Pacers
Milwaukee Bucks
LA Clippers
Toronto Raptors
Chicago Bulls
Washington Wizards
Sacramento Kings
New Jersey Nets
Philadelphia 76ers

Charlotte Bobcats (- though they don't really count.)

How many championships have these teams won? How many conference finals have they been to? How many times have these teams even made the playoffs?

And Joe Dumars did all of this without getting lucky and drafting a superstar like every other championship or contending team that's out there.

NBA finals twice and had a decent run at the top of the Atlantic. Traded for Kidd using Marbury. Drafted Eddie Griffin and traded down for RJ, Collins and Armstrong. Traded for VC.

hans dolo
07-08-2010, 03:21 AM
ed stefanski- sixers gm.

PurpleJesus
07-08-2010, 10:30 PM
Whoever runs Minnesota is the worst GM.

Rubio and Flynn before Curry???

Nothing will ever top that

whoever that guy was that was drafted before Jordan?

nolafan33
07-08-2010, 11:03 PM
Jeff Bower is pretty bad.