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JordansBulls
06-29-2010, 04:59 PM
Will Melo be considered a top 3 player in the NBA any season?


With guys like Lebron, Durant, Dwight in the league and around Melo's age, will Melo get into that top 3 debate?

And we still have guys like CP3, Deron, Kobe, Gasol, etc who can be included as well.

Tony_Starks
06-29-2010, 05:08 PM
Thats a tough one. I have him at 4th right now with Kobe, Lebron, and Wade being the top three players in that order. I think Melo is right there with those guys but what sets them apart to this point is the ability to take over and dominate games, in particular in the playoffs.

Melo has the ability but I've yet to see him dominate consistently like these guys. I think he will though and as Kobe starts to decline I think it will eventually be Lebron Wade Melo in one category and then everybody else in another.

Bruno
06-29-2010, 05:31 PM
That's a steep order. Theres just so much talent out there right now. Maybe if the Nuggets have a top record going into February. Also a steep order.

AntiG
06-29-2010, 05:33 PM
given LeBron, Wade and Durant's age, it'll be tough. But Melo right now I'd say is #5.

GoatMilk
06-29-2010, 05:34 PM
even if he plays that 2009 Western Conference Finals D for a full season, no

maybe he has a shot. some guys have bad years, but i dont think so

R_O_W_E
06-29-2010, 05:36 PM
Only if he improves his assists numbers and becomes as versatile of an offensive threat as Kobe, LeBron, & Wade.

Raoul Duke
06-29-2010, 05:43 PM
Yes. If you'd asked this question a year ago, the answers would have looked a lot different. He'll probably never be at a point where everyone agrees that he's a top 3 player, but he'll be a top 3 player at some point.

_KB24_
06-29-2010, 06:23 PM
I have him slightly above Durant, but Melo needs to take that extra step because Durant is oh so close of wiping away Melo from the Top tier of talent.

tredigs
06-29-2010, 06:26 PM
Not a chance in hell IMO. Wade, Lebron, Kobe for a couple more years, Chris Paul and now Durant are all going to be better than him throughout his career. You have guys like D. Howard, Deron Williams, Dirk, Pau, Nash and Bosh who are all arguably as good or better as well. Then you can throw in the rising stars (Rose, 'Reke, Curry possibly, + this new rookie crops possibilities) and I don't see it happening.

His defense is what leaves him behind the top 3 pack. If he was as good defensively as even KD has worked to become then he would be right there.



I have him slightly above Durant, but Melo needs to take that extra step because Durant is oh so close of wiping away Melo from the Top tier of talent.

There's literally only one thing that 'Melo clearly still has on Durant, and that's clutch shooting. That will come with experience. I think KD's better in virtually every other way (finishing efficiently, shooting, defense, etc. They're damn close still, but I'd much rather have KD going forward).

29$JerZ
06-29-2010, 06:30 PM
No, I think the general belief will be LeBron, Kobe, Wade, Dwight, Paul are top 5
Then you have Durant who is younger and a star.

I don't see it happening.

bostncelts34
06-29-2010, 06:35 PM
Amazing player but no.

Lebron
Durant
Wade
cp3

As long as there in the league, no sorry. Plus, as long as Kobe and ect. are in the league hes not top 5.

for 1 year i would take..(in no order)

Lebron
Kobe
Wade
Durant
Dwight
and maybe Deron or cp3 over Melo for a one year span

cmellofan15
06-29-2010, 06:47 PM
Not a chance in hell IMO. Wade, Lebron, Kobe for a couple more years, Chris Paul and now Durant are all going to be better than him throughout his career. You have guys like D. Howard, Deron Williams, Dirk, Pau, Nash and Bosh who are all arguably as good or better as well. Then you can throw in the rising stars (Rose, 'Reke, Curry possibly, + this new rookie crops possibilities) and I don't see it happening.


:laugh:

Mudvayne91
06-29-2010, 06:50 PM
I think he's close. I'm not sure what exactly defines being a top 3. I think D should be counted just as much as offense. Melo plays D well at times, but not consistantly.

grantarchy
06-29-2010, 06:53 PM
First of all, since when is Pau in the discussion for top 3 players in the league?

As for Melo, he seems to somehow continue living off his college reputation. He is good enough to make the Nuggets competitive, not good enough to make them champions unless he gets some serious help.

PrettyBoyJ
06-29-2010, 06:55 PM
I think it happens.. jus not soon.. wen Kobe gets like 35 I wont expect him to be putting up those same numbers he's putting up now.. and assuming K.D. doesnt take over the league Melo might have a chance to be mention as top 3

DenButsu
06-29-2010, 06:57 PM
If' Melo got Durant's whistles, he'd already be there.

Islandstyle
06-29-2010, 07:02 PM
I think if he put in the work on the defensive end he could be in the top 5 at least. With all the names that everyone has mentioned the one thing that you can say about all of them is that they bring it on the defensive end. I don't think you say that about Melo just yet.

Bruno
06-29-2010, 07:07 PM
If' Melo got Durant's whistles, he'd already be there.

Why doesn't he get those whistles?

tredigs
06-29-2010, 07:10 PM
:laugh:

I was about to question what league you're watching and explain why it's very arguable, but then I looked at your screen name. Obviously not worth my time.

Beyond not quite being a top 3 talent (due to his lax D), he's going to be overshadowed playing in Denver while these other guys play for contenders (Denver, like 'Melo, is close -- but I don't see them getting there after this free agency + the Thunders rise and the Lakers still being at the top).



If' Melo got Durant's whistles, he'd already be there.

? KD works for those whistles. There's no reason why Melo wouldn't get them himself (and he does get more than his fair share anyway. KD shoots 10 a game to 'Melo's 9...).

Mudvayne91
06-29-2010, 07:15 PM
First of all, since when is Pau in the discussion for top 3 players in the league?

As for Melo, he seems to somehow continue living off his college reputation. He is good enough to make the Nuggets competitive, not good enough to make them champions unless he gets some serious help.

If serious help means like a Chris Bosh player and George Karl healthy, I agree. You seem quick to forget the Nugs were the 2 seed for the longest time before Karl had is health issues. And every superstar needs some "help" to win championships. Kobe and Wade did not win their championships by theirselves.

cmellofan15
06-29-2010, 07:20 PM
I was about to question what league you're watching and explain why it's very arguable, but then I looked at your screen name. Obviously not worth my time.

Beyond not quite being a top 3 talent (due to his lax D), he's going to be overshadowed playing in Denver while these other guys play for contenders (Denver, like 'Melo, is close -- but I don't see them getting there after this free agency + the Thunders rise and the Lakers still being at the top).

you're talking about defense and you mention Nash, Bosh, Gasol and Dirk? a group of players who have worse defensive ratings (and offensive ratings for that matter) than Carmelo.

tredigs
06-29-2010, 07:25 PM
First of all, since when is Pau in the discussion for top 3 players in the league?

As for Melo, he seems to somehow continue living off his college reputation. He is good enough to make the Nuggets competitive, not good enough to make them champions unless he gets some serious help.

Since I think I think you're writing to me...

The reason I mentioned Pau is because I mentioned the top 6 guys that I think will always be better than 'Melo as long as they're in the league: Lebron, Wade, Chris Paul, Kobe (for the next couple) Durant (more arguable for now, the others aren't) and probably Howard. Then I put Pau in that high second tier with Dirk, Bosh, Deron and Melo (Duncan is still probably right here, too -- but he's losing ground).

So I don't consider him top 3, but he's somewhere in the 6-12 class, which is where I put 'Melo. He was arguably as good or better than Kobe (if not, then RIGHT there) for the last 6 months of the season (including the playoffs). Pau is a massive talent, and was the key to that team being in the finals for the past 3 seasons.



you're talking about defense and you mention Nash, Bosh, Gasol and Dirk? a group of players who have worse defensive ratings (and offensive ratings for that matter) than Carmelo.

Yes, and I mentioned them all NOT in the top 6 -- right along with Melo. And offensive+defensive ratings are a team stat as much as they are an individual stat; they're highly influenced by the other players on the floor (just look at a players offensive/defensive ratings when they change teams mid-season). So just looking at those numbers is not exactly telling the whole story.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
06-29-2010, 07:26 PM
IDK if I see Melo as Top 3... He's better then KD tho. IMO it's

LeBron
Kobe
Wade
CP3 /when healthy\
Dwight
Melo

AIMelo=KillaDUO
06-29-2010, 07:26 PM
some could even argue Dirk

mikantsass
06-29-2010, 07:49 PM
My top 5 list now:

Kobe
Wade
Lebron
Melo
Durant

So I guess when Kobe retires then YES!

JNA17
06-29-2010, 08:15 PM
1. kobe
2. lebron
3. Wade
4. Durant
5. Melo

He's in my top 5 but unless kobe takes a dramatic decline or wade or lebron takes a bad injury it, i don't really see melo taking the 3 spot any time soon.

tredigs
06-29-2010, 08:22 PM
My top 5 list now:

Kobe
Wade
Lebron
Melo
Durant

So I guess when Kobe retires then YES!

hah yeah... But you're forgetting Chris Paul (who is one of the best all around PG's to ever play the game) who is definitely better than 'Melo and should be back 100% healthy next season. And what about Howard. Tough to argue that because they're such different players, but Dwight's positive impact on a game is bigger/more important than Melo's IMO. Also, KD's only 21 and is arguably already better, so by the time Kobe's out of the league then I don't think it will be that close between those two.

Anyway, this is how I see the top 10:

1. Lebron
2a. Wade
2b. Kobe
4. Cp3
5a. Durant
5b. Howard
7a/b/c/d/. Dirk/Melo/Bosh/Pau/

beasted86
06-29-2010, 08:33 PM
Will Melo be considered a top 3 player in the NBA any season?


With guys like Lebron, Durant, Dwight in the league and around Melo's age, will Melo get into that top 3 debate?

And we still have guys like CP3, Deron, Kobe, Gasol, etc who can be included as well.

I am entertained by you purposely and intentionally leaving Wade off the list. :D

tredigs
06-29-2010, 08:40 PM
I am entertained by you purposely and intentionally leaving Wade off the list. :D

Hahah... didn't even notice that. That's funny. The rivalry is already festering.

Jaji
06-29-2010, 08:56 PM
LeBron and Kevin Durant are locks for the next 10 years. Currently there's still Kobe and in the future, there's bound to be plenty of players I'd put ahead of him.

DenButsu
06-30-2010, 12:25 AM
Why doesn't he get those whistles?

It's always been a mystery to me. I really don't know. Ask the refs.


? KD works for those whistles. There's no reason why Melo wouldn't get them himself (and he does get more than his fair share anyway.

I'm sorry, but this is just flat out wrong. Melo works a LOT harder on the inside, forcing defenses to foul him or pay the price for not doing so, banging around in the paint, and gets mauled constantly (and easily gets more no-calls than any other player of his stature). Their shooting stats back this up:


Melo's shot selection Durant's shot selection
Shot Att. Shot Att.
Jump 63% Jump 75%
Close 31% Close 16%
Dunk 4% Dunk 8%
Tips 1% Tips 1%
Inside 37% Inside 25%

From what I've seen, most of Durant's whistles come on perimeter jumpers with minimal contact. (To be a bit snarky, he's the new "D-Whistle" ("KD-Whistle?"), it seems to me). Which is not to say that he's not a great player, because he really is. But if you honestly think that Melo gets more preferential treatment by the refs than Durant does, or that Durant works harder at really taking it to defenses and putting pressure on them to foul than Melo does, than you are not watching the same NBA that I am.

IBleedPurple
06-30-2010, 06:44 AM
If he puts together a complete season, yes. He has been prone to one or two bad streaks during a season scoring wise, and his defense is occasionally lax. He does seem to step up the D against the best players though.

He has been a threat for the scoring title in years past as well. So basically....consistency, bump up the rebounds & assists slightly, and a team that finishes top 4 or so in the regular season, and you got an easily top 3 individual season. Nobody can predict his ceiling just yet, he has matured slower than some of his fellow draftees of the same year.

bredsox33
07-01-2010, 03:20 AM
Maybe stat wise, but the guy isn't a championship player. On an all star or fantasy team I'd take Melo over someone like Pierce any day, but in real life I'd take Pierce since he's a championship player.

JasonJohnHorn
07-01-2010, 07:58 AM
I just cant see it. He may not even be top three at his position. Kobe and LBJ are at the top of the list regardless of what order you put them in, and I think most people would agree that the play Durant poured out this season is better than any single season Melo ever pulled out and that Durant will like continue improve or stay at the level he is at baring injury. I think most people would also put Wade a head of Melo and though Dwight Howard isnt as skilled as Melo, his presence on the floor creates more of an impact on the game. I also think that regardless of stats, Gasol, Duncan, and Dirk are all better, and it could be argue that PFs like Amare and Bosh are better as well as point guards like CP3 and Derron Williams. So as it stand Melo would strugle to maintain a top-ten play let alone be a top three player in the league, especially with the talented rookies entering the league (Curry and Evans last year and Griffen, Wall and Turner coming in this year).

So.... no. But he's still a great player.

JordansBulls
07-01-2010, 08:32 AM
It's always been a mystery to me. I really don't know. Ask the refs.



I'm sorry, but this is just flat out wrong. Melo works a LOT harder on the inside, forcing defenses to foul him or pay the price for not doing so, banging around in the paint, and gets mauled constantly (and easily gets more no-calls than any other player of his stature). Their shooting stats back this up:


Melo's shot selection Durant's shot selection
Shot Att. Shot Att.
Jump 63% Jump 75%
Close 31% Close 16%
Dunk 4% Dunk 8%
Tips 1% Tips 1%
Inside 37% Inside 25%

From what I've seen, most of Durant's whistles come on perimeter jumpers with minimal contact. (To be a bit snarky, he's the new "D-Whistle" ("KD-Whistle?"), it seems to me). Which is not to say that he's not a great player, because he really is. But if you honestly think that Melo gets more preferential treatment by the refs than Durant does, or that Durant works harder at really taking it to defenses and putting pressure on them to foul than Melo does, than you are not watching the same NBA that I am.

Good post.

mikantsass
07-01-2010, 11:54 AM
hah yeah... But you're forgetting Chris Paul (who is one of the best all around PG's to ever play the game) who is definitely better than 'Melo and should be back 100% healthy next season. And what about Howard. Tough to argue that because they're such different players, but Dwight's positive impact on a game is bigger/more important than Melo's IMO. Also, KD's only 21 and is arguably already better, so by the time Kobe's out of the league then I don't think it will be that close between those two.

Anyway, this is how I see the top 10:

1. Lebron
2a. Wade
2b. Kobe
4. Cp3
5a. Durant
5b. Howard
7a/b/c/d/. Dirk/Melo/Bosh/Pau/

Yeah CP3 is in the conversation as well. I completely disagree with Dwight. His offensive game is terrible. All he has is allyoops and dunk putbacks. Yes he is good for a few blocks per game but against above average competition Dwight is very mediocore. Melo can score from anywhere on the court at anytime. The only player in the league who has a better offensive game than Melo is Kobe (I know defense is a big part of the game too). Durant I dont know about yet. He had a great season. Hes just so dam skinny that it will be tough for him to play consistantly in the paint.

So I will give you Paul in the convo, but no way is Howard above Melo in the top 5.

nuggetsyankees
07-01-2010, 11:58 AM
If he got a dominant big man playing with him I think he could definitely be in the top 3 unless Durant adds 20 lbs of muscle

Kashmir13579
07-01-2010, 12:11 PM
imo he already has been. if i'm not mistaking he was the scoring champion. if he gets a ring he'll be considered one of the best scorers to ever play the game

Kashmir13579
07-01-2010, 12:13 PM
Yeah CP3 is in the conversation as well. I completely disagree with Dwight. His offensive game is terrible. All he has is allyoops and dunk putbacks. Yes he is good for a few blocks per game but against above average competition Dwight is very mediocore. Melo can score from anywhere on the court at anytime. The only player in the league who has a better offensive game than Melo is Kobe (I know defense is a big part of the game too). Durant I dont know about yet. He had a great season. Hes just so dam skinny that it will be tough for him to play consistantly in the paint.

So I will give you Paul in the convo, but no way is Howard above Melo in the top 5.

yea and when kobe runs out of gas in a few years melo will still have a half tank, and i agree its ridiculous to put dwight above melo

tredigs
07-01-2010, 12:13 PM
It's always been a mystery to me. I really don't know. Ask the refs.



I'm sorry, but this is just flat out wrong. Melo works a LOT harder on the inside, forcing defenses to foul him or pay the price for not doing so, banging around in the paint, and gets mauled constantly (and easily gets more no-calls than any other player of his stature). Their shooting stats back this up:


Melo's shot selection Durant's shot selection
Shot Att. Shot Att.
Jump 63% Jump 75%
Close 31% Close 16%
Dunk 4% Dunk 8%
Tips 1% Tips 1%
Inside 37% Inside 25%

From what I've seen, most of Durant's whistles come on perimeter jumpers with minimal contact. (To be a bit snarky, he's the new "D-Whistle" ("KD-Whistle?"), it seems to me). Which is not to say that he's not a great player, because he really is. But if you honestly think that Melo gets more preferential treatment by the refs than Durant does, or that Durant works harder at really taking it to defenses and putting pressure on them to foul than Melo does, than you are not watching the same NBA that I am.

I've never seen Melo actively draw contact on the perimeter like KD does (if the defender is slacking and has their arms in his chest then he will instantly pull up for the jumper and draw the foul), that's the difference in their game when it comes to drawing contact. Melo often tries to shy away from it to get his shots off (which are money, maybe the best in the league from mid range), but KD seeks it.

KD is also already a better defensive player and rebounder; he works much harder on that side of the floor than Melo cares to. He was the better player of the two last season, and should be going forward.


Yeah CP3 is in the conversation as well. I completely disagree with Dwight. His offensive game is terrible. All he has is allyoops and dunk putbacks. Yes he is good for a few blocks per game but against above average competition Dwight is very mediocore. Melo can score from anywhere on the court at anytime. The only player in the league who has a better offensive game than Melo is Kobe (I know defense is a big part of the game too). Durant I dont know about yet. He had a great season. Hes just so dam skinny that it will be tough for him to play consistantly in the paint.

So I will give you Paul in the convo, but no way is Howard above Melo in the top 5.

Dwight's good for more than just "a few blocks a game" though. He dominates the paint defensively and completely alters the way the opposing team can play offense. Opposing teams FG% in the paint is much lower against the Magic than it is against any other team in the league, and he's the reason for that. His game is still (and probably always will be) raw on offense, but his impact is still felt by the other team on that side of the floor. I'd give him the slight nod over Melo, being that Melo does not do **** on D.

Evolution23
07-01-2010, 12:13 PM
Yeah next year when hes on the Knicks

m26555
07-01-2010, 12:15 PM
No. He doesn't play enough defense.

JordansBulls
07-01-2010, 12:17 PM
hah yeah... But you're forgetting Chris Paul (who is one of the best all around PG's to ever play the game) who is definitely better than 'Melo and should be back 100% healthy next season. And what about Howard. Tough to argue that because they're such different players, but Dwight's positive impact on a game is bigger/more important than Melo's IMO. Also, KD's only 21 and is arguably already better, so by the time Kobe's out of the league then I don't think it will be that close between those two.

Anyway, this is how I see the top 10:

1. Lebron
2a. Wade
2b. Kobe
4. Cp3
5a. Durant
5b. Howard
7a/b/c/d/. Dirk/Melo/Bosh/Pau/

You don't think Wade is better than Lebron?

avrpatsfan
07-01-2010, 12:26 PM
No.

tredigs
07-01-2010, 12:34 PM
You don't think Wade is better than Lebron?

No, they're a lot closer than a lot of people think though. The major reason why I'd consider Lebron the better player is that he's an athletic freak/matchup nightmare and he'll get you a few more rebounds a game than Wade will. If Wade could develop a 3 point game, then he'd the more complete/better player -- but at this point it's Lebron.