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View Full Version : How is Carlos Gonzalez not an All-Star?



seandonnelly18
06-29-2010, 03:35 PM
Check this out:

GP AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG

65 274 46 83 9 4 11 45 133 11 64 11 4 .331 .485 .303

In the field he has a .1000 fielding % and has had 3 outfield Assists

He might be the most balanced hitter and fielder this year, and he's not even in the top 15! I'm a Phillies fan, and I know that Raul Ibanez at #9 is a big mistake. The only thing you could pick at Gonzalez for is his extra base hits, which are rare for him (but he still ha those 11 home runs, which should count for something). Also what about Marlon Byrd? Do people ever do any research? I feel sorry for these players that fly under the radar and their name isn't Jeter, Pujols, or Rodriguez. So many deserving players :facepalm:. There needs to be a change, coaches and players need more say in the matter.

Thanks for letting me vent!

AllTimeBest
06-29-2010, 03:35 PM
Not a sexy name :shrug:

seandonnelly18
06-29-2010, 03:37 PM
Not a sexy name :shrug:

Carlos Gonzalez is as sexy as it comes (that's what she said) :D

Gigantes4Life
06-29-2010, 03:54 PM
Sadly, most people probably don't know who he is.

Ian.
06-29-2010, 04:22 PM
I'd guess it's because he does not have as many votes as the top 3 OF. ;)

He will probably get in as an alternate though.

seandonnelly18
06-29-2010, 04:26 PM
I'd guess it's because he does not have as many votes as the top 3 OF. ;)

He will probably get in as an alternate though.

God I hope so. Im starting to lose faith as a baseball fan when it comes to All Star voting

DodgerBlue8188
06-29-2010, 04:29 PM
God I hope so. Im starting to lose faith as a baseball fan when it comes to All Star voting

You're just now realizing this?

1908_Cubs
06-29-2010, 04:31 PM
Well....it's debatable whether he deserves on the team. His OBP leaves a lot to be desired. He has the 4th best OPS of any NL CF'er, meaning that Rasmus, Byrd and McCutchen, who all have 20 points of OPS on him, and minimum of .20 points of OBP have had the better offensive seasons. Only McCutchen out of the 3 has a lower SLGing but has an OBP nearing .380.

Now, Carlos Gonzalez is having a nice 4+ UZR/150 season in CF, but so is Byrd. Rasmus and McCutchen have left something to desire there this season, however, in Rasmus' case he was great there in 2009, so this is probably due to some of that UZR fluctuation we see and why we need more than 2 years of fielding stats to get an accurate read.

Either way, he's a fringe All-star. If he makes it or not, it is no travesty either way. If you've got to go 3 CF'ers, I'm going with the other three, personally, because I don't feel Gonzalez's nice, but not elite defense thus far in CF this year put him past McCutchen or Byrd, imo. And going by WAR, the other 3 are at least 2.0 WAR to this point. Carlos is a 1.6.

MetsFanatic19
06-29-2010, 04:32 PM
because fans vote

avrpatsfan
06-29-2010, 04:38 PM
I voted for him. He deserves it.

GoatMilk
06-29-2010, 04:56 PM
Not a sexy name :shrug:

how about his nickname, Cargo

I hate the Rox, but I love this dude even though he's a pain

He should be there.

How many all-star outfielders are there?
last year there was 7 not including Beltran who was injured.

so this year, Braun, Ethier, Hart, McCutchen, Werth?, Cargo, and another or two. (no Heyward as a starter since he's out til after the game)

ritz
06-29-2010, 04:59 PM
I wrote in Angel Pagan. I know he has absolutely no shot at making it, but I felt like he deserved some love and I'm not hurting anything. Just vote for Gonzalez.

1908_Cubs
06-29-2010, 05:03 PM
how about his nickname, Cargo

I hate the Rox, but I love this dude even though he's a pain

He should be there.

How many all-star outfielders are there?
last year there was 7 not including Beltran who was injured.

so this year, Braun, Ethier, Hart, McCutchen, Werth?, Cargo, and another or two. (no Heyward as a starter since he's out til after the game)

Carlos Gonzalez, as I've stated, is the 4th best CF'er around according to statistics. Most likely, that means he doesn't deserve to be in the game.

Rasmus, Ethier, Hart, Braun, Byrd, McCutchen, Willingham, Werth and Holliday all are better picks than Carlos Gonzalez. That's even leaving off the debatable picks in Upton and Soriano - Upton for his horrible start and Soriano for his horrible June.

d79cheese
06-29-2010, 05:17 PM
Carlos Gonzalez, as I've stated, is the 4th best CF'er around according to statistics. Most likely, that means he doesn't deserve to be in the game.

Rasmus, Ethier, Hart, Braun, Byrd, McCutchen, Willingham, Werth and Holliday all are better picks than Carlos Gonzalez. That's even leaving off the debatable picks in Upton and Soriano - Upton for his horrible start and Soriano for his horrible June.

you can make the case that andres torres is also having a better all around season then gonzalez (he plays all around the OF but plays a lot of CF)

.373 OBP, .442 SLG (.815 OPS) .368 wOBA, 31.5 UZR/150, WAR of 2.8

he'll never make it, but point is gonzalez isn't having a year that we should get mad for him not being an all star

ritz
06-29-2010, 05:20 PM
Speaking of that whole 4th outfielder thing... (http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/making-sense-of-the-fourth-outfielder-fallacy/)

infernoscurse
06-29-2010, 05:25 PM
i like gonzalez a lot, i picked him in all my fantasy leagues but hes been very streaky due to some injuries

Mudvayne91
06-29-2010, 06:04 PM
Cargo is a beast. He plays all 3 positions in the outfield and isn't designated as a "CF". He's been playing CF cause Fowler was sent down to the AAA, but he's coming back up, so Cargo will most likely move to LF, but will play RF field as well depending on if Hawpe is playing. He's leading the Rockies in RBIs despite being the leadoff for roughly 75% of the season. If Tracy had put him in the 3 spot at the beginning, I would bet he'd have a lot more RBIs. There really isn't anything he can't do offensively or defensively. The only bad part about his game is he tends to strike out. However, the Allstar vote is a freaking joke. Jimmy Rollins was beating Tulo as the SS for the longest time and hadn't even played a game. Fans are idiots. Their vote should only account for half if not less. So, it is disappointing that he isn't in, but it's just because he doesn't play for a major market team.


i like gonzalez a lot, i picked him in all my fantasy leagues but hes been very streaky due to some injuries

I think most baseball players are streaky, but you are right about the injuries. He does seem to miss a few games a month on average.

seandonnelly18
06-29-2010, 09:55 PM
Cargo is a beast. He plays all 3 positions in the outfield and isn't designated as a "CF". He's been playing CF cause Fowler was sent down to the AAA, but he's coming back up, so Cargo will most likely move to LF, but will play RF field as well depending on if Hawpe is playing. He's leading the Rockies in RBIs despite being the leadoff for roughly 75% of the season. If Tracy had put him in the 3 spot at the beginning, I would bet he'd have a lot more RBIs. There really isn't anything he can't do offensively or defensively. The only bad part about his game is he tends to strike out. However, the Allstar vote is a freaking joke. Jimmy Rollins was beating Tulo as the SS for the longest time and hadn't even played a game. Fans are idiots. Their vote should only account for half if not less. So, it is disappointing that he isn't in, but it's just because he doesn't play for a major market team.



I think most baseball players are streaky, but you are right about the injuries. He does seem to miss a few games a month on average.

Yea i voted tulo as well haha, seriously even as a phils fan, how can i vote for a guy who hasnt even played a full month of baseball!

Brave4life
06-29-2010, 10:51 PM
Their are many under rated players out ther THIS YEAR in the NL

Andrew Mcutchen
Carlos Gonzalez
Marlon Byrd
Brandon Phillips
Gabby Sanchez
Casey Mcghee
Hunter Pence
Joey Votto

Just the NL

mavwar53
06-29-2010, 10:57 PM
You're just now realizing this?

My first thoughts after reading that quote

IndiansFan337
06-29-2010, 11:17 PM
Their are many under rated players out ther THIS YEAR in the NL

Andrew Mcutchen
Carlos Gonzalez
Marlon Byrd
Brandon Phillips
Gabby Sanchez
Casey Mcghee
Hunter Pence
Joey Votto

Just the NL

I think McCutchen is a lock to be the Pirates All-Star representative.

Phillips has a good chance. Votto is very deserving, but simply plays a very deep position. Surprising as any, Scott Rolen might actually have the best chance out of any Red of being on the team. Although, I wouldn't be shocked if they end up with multiple All-Stars,

d79cheese
06-29-2010, 11:35 PM
I think McCutchen is a lock to be the Pirates All-Star representative.

Phillips has a good chance. Votto is very deserving, but simply plays a very deep position. Surprising as any, Scott Rolen might actually have the best chance out of any Red of being on the team. Although, I wouldn't be shocked if they end up with multiple All-Stars,

if joey votto does not go to the all star game it would be an absolute travesty. he has been the best hitter in the entire national league this year

jiggin
06-30-2010, 03:22 AM
because the all-star game is a popularity contest

BDawk4Prez
06-30-2010, 08:50 AM
because the all-star game is a popularity contest

Blasphemy!!!

Pinstripe pride
06-30-2010, 09:15 AM
because the all-star game is a popularity contest

basically

poodski
06-30-2010, 09:21 AM
Carlos Gonzalez in no way deserves to make the All-Star team this year.

He would be about the 6th or 7th CF'er I would choose.

mark1125
06-30-2010, 09:37 AM
Every year, players that don't deserve it will get voted in and deserving players will get left off. Cargo is having a nice year, but it wouldn't be the biggest miscarraige of justice if he isn't on the team.

The all-star game just like gold glove is all about name recognition and popularity. Always has and always will. Seeing as all teams must be represented, that makes even more deserving players miss out.

If you want to talk injustice, if Texiera gets voted in, either Morneau or Cabrera MIGHT be left off the team. THAT would be an epic fail.

Padres Son
06-30-2010, 11:44 AM
Adrian Gonzalez is leading the NL in WAR and can't even crack the top 5 vote getters for NL 1B.

I think voters just hate guys with the last name Gonzalez.

TheBomb255
06-30-2010, 12:32 PM
Corey Hart will make it in before Carlos Gonzalez does.

Carlos Gonzalez: .302 AVG, .330 OBP, .493 SLG, 12 HR, 46 RBI
Corey Hart: .278 AVG, .345 OBP, .573 SLG, 18 HR, 60 RBI


Outside of AVG, Hart has way better numbers then Gonzalez does.

Hart wasn't on the ballot though because he didn't start for the first part of the season.

t327
06-30-2010, 05:08 PM
Adrian Gonzalez will get in the game, just not as the starter. Fans only pick the starters...I believe. Plus, Bud Black is an NL coach. Adrian will be there in Anaheim.

Mudvayne91
06-30-2010, 05:15 PM
Corey Hart will make it in before Carlos Gonzalez does.

Carlos Gonzalez: .302 AVG, .330 OBP, .493 SLG, 12 HR, 46 RBI
Corey Hart: .278 AVG, .345 OBP, .573 SLG, 18 HR, 60 RBI


Outside of AVG, Hart has way better numbers then Gonzalez does.

Hart wasn't on the ballot though because he didn't start for the first part of the season.

Cargo has been hitting leadoff for a good portion of the season. If he was hitting 3rd consistantly like he is now, he'd have more RBIs. I don't really care though cause the game is a joke. Plus what does Hart's defense look like?

MacFitz92
06-30-2010, 05:23 PM
That's because the All Star game is a popularity contest.

1908_Cubs
06-30-2010, 05:28 PM
Cargo has been hitting leadoff for a good portion of the season. If he was hitting 3rd consistantly like he is now, he'd have more RBIs. I don't really care though cause the game is a joke. Plus what does Hart's defense look like?

I haven't seen a single person discredit him for not having enough RBI's. Mostly because RBI's are a stupid stat to compare players with.

He's got the 15th best OPS in the NL of OF'ers, 4th among CF'ers with good, albeit, not elite defense in CF. That's why he shouldn't be in the game. If you're not going to be elite at defense, or be in the top 3 in offense, then fact is, you're not going. Especially when overall you're 15th.

A nice season? Yes. All-star worthy? No.

d79cheese
06-30-2010, 05:34 PM
I haven't seen a single person discredit him for not having enough RBI's. Mostly because RBI's are a stupid stat to compare players with.

He's got the 15th best OPS in the NL of OF'ers, 4th among CF'ers with good, albeit, not elite defense in CF. That's why he shouldn't be in the game. If you're not going to be elite at defense, or be in the top 3 in offense, then fact is, you're not going. Especially when overall you're 15th.

A nice season? Yes. All-star worthy? No.

this

Mudvayne91
06-30-2010, 05:38 PM
^?


I haven't seen a single person discredit him for not having enough RBI's. Mostly because RBI's are a stupid stat to compare players with.

He's got the 15th best OPS in the NL of OF'ers, 4th among CF'ers with good, albeit, not elite defense in CF. That's why he shouldn't be in the game. If you're not going to be elite at defense, or be in the top 3 in offense, then fact is, you're not going. Especially when overall you're 15th.

A nice season? Yes. All-star worthy? No.

Well that is your opinion obviously based strictly on stats. I can agree with the offense, but I am curious how many games you've seen him play CF, LF or RF? I'm sure it really hasn't reached more than like 5 games.

d79cheese
06-30-2010, 06:01 PM
^?



Well that is your opinion obviously based strictly on stats. I can agree with the offense, but I am curious how many games you've seen him play CF, LF or RF? I'm sure it really hasn't reached more than like 5 games.

according to UZR he is 13th among NL OF's and UZR/150 he is also 13th among NL OF's. he is a good defender and good offensive player, but not all star worthy this year

1908_Cubs
06-30-2010, 06:37 PM
^?



Well that is your opinion obviously based strictly on stats. I can agree with the offense, but I am curious how many games you've seen him play CF, LF or RF? I'm sure it really hasn't reached more than like 5 games.

UZR, probably the best defensive metric around currently, has him as an above average, albeit, not an elite defender. Considering the massive strides we're seeing in defensive metrics you no longer need to "see" a player play defense (not to mention your eyes consistently lie to you allowing you to see what you want to see, but we'll move on from that).

You put Carlos Gonzalez as a LF'er and he has no chance to make the all-star game, he simply doesn't hit well enough to hold down an all-star spot in that position. As a CF'er he's fringe, considering i'd put him at 4th right now. Problem is Rasmus is leading the NL in OPS for OF'ers, and both Byrd and McCutchen are having great seasons.

As it stands today Gonzalez get slashed from the team as the 4th CF'er and probably somewhere around the 9th-10th OF'er overall. He's not top 3 at any regular position and in that way, doesn't deserve to be in the all-star game.

A nice season an all-star does not make. And I think this is where you're missing it.

t327
07-01-2010, 12:18 AM
On a side note...how about Rafael Furcal as an SS reserve? Anybody? Numbers are there, even though he has missed about 1/3 of the season (late April - late May). Joe Mauer and Josh Hamilton both made it last year after missing significant time, even though they were started in.

Furcal has been pretty beast.