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jaysfan4ever
06-28-2010, 09:25 PM
If we hadn't traded Halladay and Rolen...



1) We'd have 2 more all-stars, as Rolen's gone bananas this year in Cincy:

.300-.367-.571-.937, with 17HR and 53RBI

2) We'd have 3 aces on our team (Halladay, Romero, Marcum), along with 2 solid back of the rotation pitchers (Morrow and Cecil), giving us a rotation that rivals any Major League rotation

3) We'd have solid D at 3rd with Rolen, instead of EE, and Bautista would be permanently in the outfield, causing us not to need Fred Lewis

4) Our lineup would be very solid top-to-bottom:

RF Bautista
2B Hill
CF Wells
3B Rolen
DH Lind
C Buck
SS Gonzalez
1B Overbay
LF Snider


If we hadn't traded Halladay and Rolen...

Would we be first place in the AL East?

Gibby
06-28-2010, 09:27 PM
If we hadn't traded Halladay and Rolen...



-We'd have 2 more all-stars, as Rolen's gone bananas this year in Cincy:

.300-.367-.571-.937, with 17HR and 53RBI

-We'd have 3 aces on our team (Halladay, Romero, Marcum), along with 2 solid back of the rotation pitchers (Morrow and Cecil), giving us a rotation that rivals any Major League rotation

-We'd have solid D at 3rd with Rolen, instead of EE, and Bautista would be permanently in right

-Our lineup would be very solid top-to-bottom:

RF Bautista
2B Hill
CF Wells
3B Rolen
DH Lind
C Buck
SS Gonzalez
1B Overbay
LF Snider


If we hadn't traded Halladay and Rolen...

Would we be first place in the AL East?

not sure but we would be serious contendors for the WC. dont think we would be ahead of the yanks though. but we couldnt have known Gonzo, Bautista,Buck will all have career years

T.O. Fan
06-28-2010, 09:41 PM
The answer is No and the addition of Rolen wouldn't all of a sudden make this a solid lineup.

I like what they got in return with Wallace, Drabek, D'Arnaud, Stewart and Roenicke.

Pride
06-28-2010, 10:42 PM
Even with those two, we'd still be quite a few games back from a playoff spot. It's time to do a good rebuild.

bomber0104
06-28-2010, 11:02 PM
We would be a better team on paper but we still wouldn't be touching the playoffs with that bullpen we got

wamco
06-28-2010, 11:10 PM
forgot rios

BlueJayFanDan
06-29-2010, 03:44 AM
Hard to say dude. I dunno. We would be better if we still had Doc but who really knows.

Nuke
06-29-2010, 09:56 AM
I hate Bautista hitting lead-off

BlueJayCarter
06-29-2010, 10:02 AM
I don't think we would be better off with Rolen and Halladay. We would still be in fourth place or third and several games back of a playoff spot. I don't think Rolen would put up those kind of numbers at the Roger's Centre or for the Blue Jays anyway. He was a good player with the Blue Jays, just not a great hitter with the Blue Jays.

I would love the Blue Jays to get the wild card this year. Toronto and its fans deserve the playoffs. But A.A said this is rebuilding. We have solid pieces, even though two have taken a mighty step back this year. We have exceptional, young starting pitching at the Major League level, and good talent in the minors and we have alot of talent in the field coming up.

Next year, 2012 I think Toronto will be good to fight regularly for a playoff spot. The Yankees and Red Soxs are older, and come a year or two Toronto with home grown talent will be like the Tampa Bay Rays.

Big Hurt
06-29-2010, 10:24 AM
forgot rios

Rios, Halladay, Rolen = Wildcard...for certain

It also = WAY more money than the team was willing to commit for this season
$10.2 million for Rios
$15.75 million for Roy
$7.66 million for Rolen
over $33 million for the 3 players. You could minus the $5 or so million the Jays are paying Halladay this year to not play for us and the answer is still too rich for the Jays!!!

1hardcore
06-29-2010, 11:48 AM
If they hadn't trade those guys then they'd be getting older......and the jays wouldnt change

LechWalesa
06-29-2010, 11:54 AM
Rolen demanded a trade, which is why he was traded. He really should not be part of this discussion at all.

Bjaxn45
06-29-2010, 12:20 PM
Rolen demanded a trade, which is why he was traded. He really should not be part of this discussion at all.

Was just going to post this. This is a pointless thread. We couldn't have resigned Halladay either. Rolen has really surprised me hitting as well as last season with more production (17 hr/53 rbis).

StealingSigns
06-29-2010, 05:19 PM
I like the prospects the Jays got in return for two players who didn't want to be in Toronto any longer.

2009mvp
06-29-2010, 05:47 PM
Rios, Halladay, Rolen = Wildcard...for certain

It also = WAY more money than the team was willing to commit for this season
$10.2 million for Rios
$15.75 million for Roy
$7.66 million for Rolen
over $33 million for the 3 players. You could minus the $5 or so million the Jays are paying Halladay this year to not play for us and the answer is still too rich for the Jays!!!

Not really.

Twitchy
06-29-2010, 06:09 PM
As much as I would have liked to have kept Rios, Rolen & Halladay...we've had this core together since 2006. Maybe they should have made the playoffs in 06 or even 08, but if we didn't do it in the first 4 years, I don't think we would have done it this year either.

2009mvp
06-29-2010, 08:29 PM
Thing is, a lot of people seem to be assuming that playing .519% ball the rest of the year as the team stands right now is a given. That's ridiculous IMO. You're not adding Rios, Rolen and Doc to an 84 win team, you're probably adding that those marginal wins to roughly a 75-80 win team (off the top of my head). Talented enough to be very good, but far from good enough on paper to be assuming they'd be in the WC lead or something crazy like that.

Not to mention that it's not even July yet. Rolen's not exactly the picture of perfect health and even with Doc you're still looking at a rotation with 4 guys who haven't thrown 200 innings in a big league season yet.

wamco
06-29-2010, 11:21 PM
I don't think we would be better off with Rolen and Halladay

good stop point.

Does it seem like players "demand" to be traded (or in reality, just state their preference in a private, professional manner most likely) from the jays than any other organization? I rarely hear about it elsewhere but off the top of my head and correct me if I'm wrong, David wells, clemens, glaus, rolen?

wamco
06-29-2010, 11:22 PM
and do you have to honor that request? say wells comes in tomorrow and demands a trade but you can't get a satisfactory offer, then what?

ChongInc.
06-30-2010, 07:46 AM
Toronto teams seem to thrive on low expectations.
We would still have the worst farm system in the league.
If we managed to succeed with that team, than Riccardi would still be here.
In 4 years we would be a lot worse off than if we started the rebuild now, wile we still had some assets.

ChongInc.
06-30-2010, 07:46 AM
Toronto teams seem to thrive on low expectations.
We would still have the worst farm system in the league.
If we managed to succeed with that team, than Riccardi would still be here.
In 4 years we would be a lot worse off than if we started the rebuild now, wile we still had some assets.

GNick
06-30-2010, 01:14 PM
If we hadn't traded Halladay and Rolen...



1) We'd have 2 more all-stars, as Rolen's gone bananas this year in Cincy:

.300-.367-.571-.937, with 17HR and 53RBI

2) We'd have 3 aces on our team (Halladay, Romero, Marcum), along with 2 solid back of the rotation pitchers (Morrow and Cecil), giving us a rotation that rivals any Major League rotation

3) We'd have solid D at 3rd with Rolen, instead of EE, and Bautista would be permanently in the outfield, causing us not to need Fred Lewis

4) Our lineup would be very solid top-to-bottom:

RF Bautista
2B Hill
CF Wells
3B Rolen
DH Lind
C Buck
SS Gonzalez
1B Overbay
LF Snider


If we hadn't traded Halladay and Rolen...

Would we be first place in the AL East?

I doubt Rolen would of had the year here he is having in Cinncy...being reunited with his old managment from St. Louis seemed to have changed. Or, maybe they knew how to get the most out of him :cry:

GNick
06-30-2010, 01:19 PM
Jays be another 4-5 years rebuilding before contending. I am pencilling in 2014 at the earliest. Jays have many holes to fill yet before winning, first hole is the need of an ace to make playoffs in their division, there is none in the immediate future. Unless AA signs a Lee this off season. I am about 95% sure he won't...but there is the chance.

Big Hurt
06-30-2010, 07:12 PM
I don't think we would be better off with Rolen and Halladay

good stop point.

Does it seem like players "demand" to be traded (or in reality, just state their preference in a private, professional manner most likely) from the jays than any other organization? I rarely hear about it elsewhere but off the top of my head and correct me if I'm wrong, David wells, clemens, glaus, rolen?

Cone, Shawn Green, put out trade demands. John Frascatore of little talent had a hissy fit one year and demanded his release.

dtmagnet
06-30-2010, 07:51 PM
Rolen might have strangled someone if we didn't trade him.

H-MYK
06-30-2010, 08:02 PM
I doubt that we would be ahead of Boston and New York if we still have Halladay and Rolen.

R. Johnson#3
07-01-2010, 09:55 AM
I don't think we would be better off with Rolen and Halladay

good stop point.

Does it seem like players "demand" to be traded (or in reality, just state their preference in a private, professional manner most likely) from the jays than any other organization? I rarely hear about it elsewhere but off the top of my head and correct me if I'm wrong, David wells, clemens, glaus, rolen?

I never remembered Glaus requesting to be traded. I could just be forgetting though. I do remember the David Wells situation very well. Personally if you want to be traded there's nothing better to do than insult the fans.

2009mvp
07-01-2010, 11:03 AM
^^Glaus did it the right way, he went to management not the media. I don't think he was ever upset with the Jays, the city or the direction of team, IIRC the turf was the big reason he wanted out. Probably a smart decision for such a big dude playing a demanding position.

Rochesta
07-01-2010, 06:09 PM
Both those guys wanted out. It never could have happened.

GNick
07-03-2010, 12:20 PM
We are in the first 6 months or so of our 3 rebuilding program in 15 years. Jays should sign a couple of big names, give the fans some hope.

wamco
07-04-2010, 07:27 AM
This "losing is great for the team so it gets better picks" is wonderful and all except for all the loss of fans/interes/revenue when you don't try to improve the mlb team.