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View Full Version : Get Rid of the Rule for Pitchers Hitting



bosoxlover12
06-27-2010, 11:07 PM
They should get rid of the pitchers having to hit in the ML.

Recently, Red Sox pitcher Clay Buchholz injured himself running the basepaths. He was the best pitcher on Boston's staff so far this year.

There is no upside to having pitchers hit. Remember when Yankees' pitcher Ching Ming Wang hurt himself in Houston. He has not been close to the pitcher he was then, which was a good one. As a Sox fan, I would know. I hated facing him, because he was so good. But I'm not happy he got injured, because it is a bad thing to wish for.

Having a DH for both the AL and NL would be ideal.
Like, if the NL had a DH for this year, I guarantee Joe Torre would have re-signed Juan Pierre so Manny could DH. Pierre was not as good of a hitter as Manny, and they didnt want to waste him on the bench. But Pierre is much better defensively than Manny, and Pierre is a better hitter than almost every pitcher in the MLB. You think Torre wants Chad Billingsly hitting and Manny playing OF, making errors and getting more tired, which will produce in a worse hitting performance? No! He would MUCH rather have the speedy, golden glove defender in left, and having Manny's bat get more rest.

The DH is the way to go, no doubt. I cannot think of a single legitimate upside to having no DH, except that you have to pay someone just to hit, but that's a terrible excuse.

And just putting it out there, the DH using AL team has not lost the non-DH using NL team in the All Star Game for like, the past 12 seasons. They must be doing something right. Just saying.

VRP723
06-27-2010, 11:08 PM
They should get rid of the pitchers having to hit in the ML.

Recently, Red Sox pitcher Clay Buchholz injured himself running the basepaths. He was the best pitcher on Boston's staff so far this year.

There is no upside to having pitchers hit. Remember when Yankees' pitcher Ching Ming Wang hurt himself in Houston. He has not been close to the pitcher he was then, which was a good one. As a Sox fan, I would know. I hated facing him, because he was so good. But I'm not happy he got injured, because it is a bad thing to wish for.

Having a DH for both the AL and NL would be ideal.
Like, if the NL had a DH for this year, I guarantee Joe Torre would have re-signed Juan Pierre so Manny could DH. Pierre was not as good of a hitter as Manny, and they didnt want to waste him on the bench. But Pierre is much better defensively than Manny, and Pierre is a better hitter than almost every pitcher in the MLB. You think Torre wants Chad Billingsly hitting and Manny playing OF, making errors and getting more tired, which will produce in a worse hitting performance? No! He would MUCH rather have the speedy, golden glove defender in left, and having Manny's bat get more rest.

The DH is the way to go, no doubt. I cannot think of a single legitimate upside to having no DH, except that you have to pay someone just to hit, but that's a terrible excuse.

And just putting it out there, the DH using AL team has not lost the non-DH using NL team in the All Star Game for like, the past 12 seasons. They must be doing something right. Just saying.

:confused:

Young2Kinsler
06-27-2010, 11:10 PM
No one really likes to watch pitchers hit, but things probably aren't going to change. I think it's an easy way out of an inning too many times to pitch around guys to pitch to such an inferior quality. It makes the game much less exciting and competitive.

bosoxlover12
06-27-2010, 11:10 PM
:confused:

i mean, if the NL were using the DH system this year, and knew about it last year, they would never had released him

Ian.
06-27-2010, 11:18 PM
Didn't even have to see the thread creator to know what team followed. :laugh:

Mudvayne91
06-27-2010, 11:19 PM
People whose teams are in the NL are going to say no DH. Ones from the AL want to keep the DH. That's the way she is.


I think it's an easy way out of an inning too many times to pitch around guys to pitch to such an inferior quality. It makes the game much less exciting and competitive.

the DH hasn't been around forever. Does that mean the AL use to play inferior baseball prior to the rule or much less exciting?

Cub_StuckinSTL
06-27-2010, 11:23 PM
I prefer pure baseball.

bosoxlover12
06-27-2010, 11:24 PM
People whose teams are in the NL are going to say no DH. Ones from the AL want to keep the DH. That's the way she is.




^ the DH hasn't been around forever. Does that mean the AL use to play inferior baseball prior to the rule?

IMO yeah kinda. Who do you think would win more games if they "somehow" played against eachother.. the 1941 Yankees or the 2009 Yankees? I vote '09

bosoxlover12
06-27-2010, 11:24 PM
Didn't even have to see the thread creator to know what team followed. :laugh:

really?! hahahah lol

ClayMatthews
06-27-2010, 11:27 PM
Wow.. Havent heard this topic before. And frankly i like the excitement to see pitchers hit. I believe if you play baseball you should know how to play defense and bat. Everyone acts like batting is a new thing for these guys. They probably had a DH their whole life and never swung a bat nor had to run the bases. Come on now.

Mudvayne91
06-27-2010, 11:35 PM
And frankly i like the excitement to see pitchers hit.

That makes 2 of us. That's 2 more than what stated above.

iggypop123
06-27-2010, 11:37 PM
the DH is just a gimmick. give me real baseball have pitchers hit

OptimisticNot
06-27-2010, 11:50 PM
I prefer pure baseball.

x2

Twitchy
06-27-2010, 11:55 PM
I prefer pure baseball.

So you're in favour of the DH then.

OptimisticNot
06-27-2010, 11:56 PM
So you're in favour of the DH then.

The DH is the epitome of impurity

Pavelb1
06-27-2010, 11:57 PM
As a Red Sox fan, I loved that Lesters bomb would have been a GS in Fenway, Dice-K getting an RBI, And Lackey getting two hits then PHing the next night.

Clay has been used as a pinch runner before, he should have streched properly like a real athlete, (I didnt see the play so I don't know if he was hurt sliding or just wasnt streched out)....as for Wang destroying his career, for Gods sake, five year old girls can run the bases without ripping a tendon, man the F up Wang.

avrpatsfan
06-28-2010, 12:00 AM
Add a DH to the NL. It makes it more fair to the NL and the AL. It's so stupid that pitchers have to hit. They are called pitchers for a reason. They PITCH not hit. So many pitchers get injured while running the basepaths. Just like Buchholz got injured too trying to break up a double play. And Beckett got injured hitting in the batting cages and he still hasn't played yet. Nobody pays to see pitchers hit.

brandonwarne52
06-28-2010, 12:05 AM
LOL would it still be pure baseball if there had been a DH all along and the pitcher hitting rule came along in 1973? Or are you just talking out of your *****?

Quite frankly, I don't give a damn whether we have the rule or not, but I just hate seeing people hide behind the guise of "pure baseball" or "it adds an element of intricacy to the game" as if double switches or pinch hitting was all that big of a deal.

OptimisticNot
06-28-2010, 12:06 AM
LOL would it still be pure baseball if there had been a DH all along and the pitcher hitting rule came along in 1973? Or are you just talking out of your *****?

Quite frankly, I don't give a damn whether we have the rule or not, but I just hate seeing people hide behind the guise of "pure baseball" or "it adds an element of intricacy to the game" as if double switches or pinch hitting was all that big of a deal.

endless, pointless, constantly contentious debate. Two fundamentally different views on baseball. Keep the DH in the AL.

brandonwarne52
06-28-2010, 12:07 AM
Exactly my point. I truly honestly don't give a damn.

BlondeBomber41
06-28-2010, 12:12 AM
If they want to have their pitchers hit, let them. Who really cares. As a AL fan, I am happy our pitchers don't hit though. Leads to more exciting games, and I hate watching teams pitch around the #8 guy to get to the pitcher as a easy way out of the inning. Its cheap.

brandonwarne52
06-28-2010, 12:14 AM
Are you really making that comparison to how specialized pitching is?

elizur
06-28-2010, 12:19 AM
haha pitchers hitting is baseball not a rule. The DH in the A.L. is a rule. Get ride of that.

Human FlameShld
06-28-2010, 12:20 AM
I'd rather see the DH go away than see it added to the NL.


Let the players play.

iggypop123
06-28-2010, 12:20 AM
i think the AL needs to take it another level. if you can only hit and not field why not everyone? expand the gimmick. have 2 teams. one defense one offense. then you have have people fresh and uninjured all the time!

Hopkins
06-28-2010, 12:25 AM
Its part of the game, always has been. You say change the rule, its not a rule, thats just the way the game is played. I say keep it pure, thats what makes baseball great, the fact that players play both sides of the ball.

Rent-a-Hero
06-28-2010, 12:26 AM
The DH is the epitome of impurity

The DH is the epitome of evolution.

-RaH-

northsider
06-28-2010, 12:26 AM
HAAHAHAHAH you lose credibility when you tried to strengthen your argument with the outcome of the ALL Star games.

ZHAKIDD532
06-28-2010, 12:30 AM
I like NL baseball much better. If you want to hit, you play the field.

DodgerBulls
06-28-2010, 12:37 AM
Remeber little league? Everybody hits and it was perfect because they play real baseball. Pitchers should hit because you have to strategize. Look at dodgers and yankees game earlier.. the yanks looked like dumb*****. Too bad broxton did his usual job.. give the game to the other team.

Young2Kinsler
06-28-2010, 12:37 AM
Some one really said they like the excitement of pitchers hitting? Yeah a collective .100 avg is amazing.

For those who say pitchers need to hit, then they need to be hitting in the minors, college, and high school as well. Right now, those kids are being groomed to pitch and pitch only. To expect a guy to have any real success when he doesn't pick up a bat regularly for 4-6 years is stupid. Some one says if they play baseball they should hit, then why don't the practice hitting like everyone else?

MIKE&IKE's
06-28-2010, 12:50 AM
GET THIS THREAD OUTTA HERE!!! ban the DH its a bunch of ****, pitchers are babied too much in todays game with insane pitch counts and all- and now they cant run the bases?? thats their problem, the DH takes SO much out of the game

AsfanSince99
06-28-2010, 12:58 AM
Let's see... who would you rather see at the plate with the bases loaded:
Big Papi or Tim Wakefield?

CASE CLOSED!

AsfanSince99
06-28-2010, 01:03 AM
The DH is the epitome of evolution.

-RaH-
AMEN ..and the NL is the religious right, lol, still stuck in ancient times. :clap:

sf-fanatic
06-28-2010, 01:10 AM
They should get rid of the pitchers having to hit in the ML.

Recently, Red Sox pitcher Clay Buchholz injured himself running the basepaths. He was the best pitcher on Boston's staff so far this year.

There is no upside to having pitchers hit. Remember when Yankees' pitcher Ching Ming Wang hurt himself in Houston. He has not been close to the pitcher he was then, which was a good one. As a Sox fan, I would know. I hated facing him, because he was so good. But I'm not happy he got injured, because it is a bad thing to wish for.

Having a DH for both the AL and NL would be ideal.
Like, if the NL had a DH for this year, I guarantee Joe Torre would have re-signed Juan Pierre so Manny could DH. Pierre was not as good of a hitter as Manny, and they didnt want to waste him on the bench. But Pierre is much better defensively than Manny, and Pierre is a better hitter than almost every pitcher in the MLB. You think Torre wants Chad Billingsly hitting and Manny playing OF, making errors and getting more tired, which will produce in a worse hitting performance? No! He would MUCH rather have the speedy, golden glove defender in left, and having Manny's bat get more rest.

The DH is the way to go, no doubt. I cannot think of a single legitimate upside to having no DH, except that you have to pay someone just to hit, but that's a terrible excuse.

And just putting it out there, the DH using AL team has not lost the non-DH using NL team in the All Star Game for like, the past 12 seasons. They must be doing something right. Just saying.

Never thought Juan Pierre'e pie throwing arm was worthy of consideration for a gold glove...

sf-fanatic
06-28-2010, 01:19 AM
Add a DH to the NL. It makes it more fair to the NL and the AL. It's so stupid that pitchers have to hit. They are called pitchers for a reason. They PITCH not hit. So many pitchers get injured while running the basepaths. Just like Buchholz got injured too trying to break up a double play. And Beckett got injured hitting in the batting cages and he still hasn't played yet. Nobody pays to see pitchers hit.

FYI, Bucholz didn't get hurt trying to "break up" a double play. He got hurt running plain and simple and didn't even attempt to slide.

Lincecum4CY
06-28-2010, 01:21 AM
I agree. I think its stupid for one league to have pitchers hit and the other for the pitcher not to hit. I dont think pitchers should hit. To much of a liability. Same thing happened to SF last year with Randy Johnson. Injured himself swinging a bat and we were screwed for a 5th starter til we got Penny few months later.

Mudvayne91
06-28-2010, 01:35 AM
There's no point to keep this bad boy open. All the bickering is pointless because both the NL and AL aren't going to change.

EdGein812
06-28-2010, 01:36 AM
I agree.

How much of an impact do you want one player in the game to have?!?

Starting pitchers already have such a huge bearing on the game. If he pitches good, the team most likely is going to win. If he pitches bad, the team is most likely going to lose. And you want him hitting, running, and scoring runs too!?! It's supposed to be a team game for chrissakes.

Why would you want to give the most important, most crucial player in the game anymore of an input into the outcome!!!

Maybe they should have to manage too.

1-800-STFU
06-28-2010, 01:39 AM
They should completely remove the foul line and players should be able to run full blast into the stands to catch foul balls. Now thats an exciting move. And if the ball hits the foul pole it's a touchdown.

EdGein812
06-28-2010, 01:39 AM
Plus, there's the fact that they can't ****ing hit!!!

I want to pay to watch a pitcher bat about as much as I wanna pay to watch a batter pitch.

AllStar44
06-28-2010, 01:51 AM
Agreed if your team is a N.L team your gonna say **** no to the dh and opposite for an A.L fan. Just keep it how it is. A.L uses it and N.L doesn't, simple.

EdGein812
06-28-2010, 01:57 AM
And it doesn't add legitimate strategy. It adds strategy by default because you have to "play around" the pitcher. If the manager had to hit, it would involve the exact same strategy.

If a player is totally inept, and in turn you have to play around that player, that doesn't make for good sport in my opinion.

And what about the strategy involved in an at-bat? There's much more strategy involved when a pitcher has to go up against a DH who actually knows how to hit. To me, that is baseball; the chess match and battle between every pitch. To me, there's nothing greater, than having a HOF player like Jim Thome or Vladimir Guerrero compete in a battle of skill and wits in a one-on-one matchup against a great pitcher.

A great hitter vs. a great pitcher. That's when legitimate strategy comes into play, pitch-by-pitch.

That is great baseball.

EdGein812
06-28-2010, 01:58 AM
Plus, there's the fact that pitchers can't ****ing hit!!!

29$JerZ
06-28-2010, 02:05 AM
If a pitcher can throw a ball they should be able to hit it, they are on the field as well.

EdGein812
06-28-2010, 02:08 AM
If a pitcher can throw a ball they should be able to hit it, they are on the field as well.

If a batter can hit a ball, they should be able to throw it and pitch, they are on the field as well.

EdGein812
06-28-2010, 02:10 AM
Starting pitchers already have such a huge bearing on the game. If he pitches good, the team most likely is going to win. If he pitches bad, the team is most likely going to lose. And you want him hitting, running, and scoring runs too!?! It's supposed to be a team game for chrissakes.

Why would you want to give the most important, most crucial player in the game anymore of an input into the outcome!!!

Maybe they should have to manage too.

EdGein812
06-28-2010, 02:14 AM
If a pitcher can throw a ball they should be able to hit it, they are on the field as well.

I want to pay to watch a pitcher bat about as much as I wanna pay to watch a batter pitch.

darkfire423
06-28-2010, 02:16 AM
I am sorry American League teams that your pitchers are so useless outside of pitching they cant be big league ball players.

what did they do before 1973. Oh yea the sucked it up and hit.

Instead of letting a guy who was a 1 tool player, stay in the big leagues.


I am sorry the NL plays baseball. AL plays beer league softball. really i am expecting a short center fielder in a few years.

Mudvayne91
06-28-2010, 02:22 AM
Ed Gein, dude... You made your point. Not everyone has to agree on here.

WoodandNails
06-28-2010, 02:22 AM
I want to pay to watch a pitcher bat about as much as I wanna pay to watch a batter pitch.

I think in the eyes of Major League Baseball, tradition is much more important than what you want to pay to watch.

Also, how hypocritical is it of AL fans to use the "it's boring to watch a pitcher hit" argument for a DH while tons of them mocked and complained about the size of New Yankee stadium and its affect on games in its first year?

darkfire423
06-28-2010, 02:23 AM
Add a DH to the NL. It makes it more fair to the NL and the AL. It's so stupid that pitchers have to hit. They are called pitchers for a reason. They PITCH not hit. So many pitchers get injured while running the basepaths. Just like Buchholz got injured too trying to break up a double play. And Beckett got injured hitting in the batting cages and he still hasn't played yet. Nobody pays to see pitchers hit.


Your logic is flawed.

If they are pitchers and shouldnt hit

Left fielders shouldnt hit. they are fielders.

Catchers shouldnt hit. they catch.

I am sorry another american league pitcher got hurt RUNNING. Hey lets from now on let American league teams use dr. designated runners. Remember during PE a kid who was hurt could hit but couldnt run. they got to use another runner.

29$JerZ
06-28-2010, 02:26 AM
If a batter can hit a ball, they should be able to throw it and pitch, they are on the field as well.

???

Pitching is a position, not batting.

You don't need to have years of playing baseball to be a batter.

If 1-8 are hitting, so should the putcher.

NateyB24
06-28-2010, 02:26 AM
I am sorry American League teams that your pitchers are so useless outside of pitching they cant be big league ball players.

what did they do before 1973. Oh yea the sucked it up and hit.

Instead of letting a guy who was a 1 tool player, stay in the big leagues.


I am sorry the NL plays baseball. AL plays beer league softball. really i am expecting a short center fielder in a few years.

Really? Thats how i feel when i have to watch a pitcher bat. Anyways NL will never agree with this they think Pitchers should be 3 tool no matter what.

EdGein812
06-28-2010, 02:48 AM
???

Pitching is a position, not batting.

You don't need to have years of playing baseball to be a batter.

If 1-8 are hitting, so should the putcher.

Clearly. The pitchers do such an amazing job of hitting, you're absolutely right.

sf-fanatic
06-28-2010, 02:49 AM
you guys are completely ignoring the fact than in the NL every position player has to be good on both sides of the ball or else they are hurting their team. in the AL, they can hide their worst defender in the DH role which is kinda unfair imo.

EdGein812
06-28-2010, 02:53 AM
Ed Gein, dude... You made your point. Not everyone has to agree on here.

Second of all, I just want a NL fan or two to answer my question. I've jumped into this debate and everyone seems to conveniently ignore this one question / topic.

How much of an impact do you want ONE player to have???

Just answer that.

Again...I'm sure you missed it the first 3 times -

Starting pitchers already have such a huge bearing on the game. If he pitches good, the team most likely is going to win. If he pitches bad, the team is most likely going to lose. And you want him hitting, running, and scoring runs too!?! It's supposed to be a team game for chrissakes.

Why would you want to give the most important, most crucial player in the game anymore of an input into the outcome!!!

Why?

EdGein812
06-28-2010, 03:01 AM
you guys are completely ignoring the fact than in the NL every position player has to be good on both sides of the ball or else they are hurting their team. in the AL, they can hide their worst defender in the DH role which is kinda unfair imo.

The NL is just so much more talented in comparison. That must be why they get murdered every year in interleague play...and the all-star game...and the World Series...and what else...???...There is nothing else!!! NL baseball sucks. Maybe because half the league are utility players that can't hack it in the AL.

EdGein812
06-28-2010, 03:04 AM
And it doesn't add legitimate strategy. It adds strategy by default because you have to "play around" the pitcher. If the manager had to hit, it would involve the exact same strategy.

If a player is totally inept, and in turn you have to play around that player, that doesn't make for good sport in my opinion.

And what about the strategy involved in an at-bat? There's much more strategy involved when a pitcher has to go up against a DH who actually knows how to hit. To me, that is baseball; the chess match and battle between every pitch. To me, there's nothing greater, than having a HOF player like Jim Thome or Vladimir Guerrero compete in a battle of skill and wits in a one-on-one matchup against a great pitcher.

A great hitter vs. a great pitcher. That's when legitimate strategy comes into play, pitch-by-pitch.

That is great baseball.

croce_99
06-28-2010, 03:05 AM
Let's see... who would you rather see at the plate with the bases loaded:
Big Papi or Tim Wakefield?

CASE CLOSED!

How does that make sense?
Papi bats in the middle of the order
The pitcher bats 9th

You can't compare the two.

The Angels had a guy batting .176 Sunday. And he's not a pitcher.
Baltimore had a guy batting .239. Again, not a pitcher.
Or how about Toronto's amazing .200 batting avg in the 9th spot today.


Some of you act like the guy who bats 9th is always hitting .500

Truth is, the AL 9th spot really isn't batting that great. AL puts their worse offensive player in the 9 spot. Obviously, the NL does the same thing.
Sure a pitcher likely won't get on base too often.

And if a pitcher gets hurt running from home to 1st, then maybe he should get in better shape. Blame himself, not the sport. It's 90 feet....not that far of a run

dabears2010
06-28-2010, 03:07 AM
They should get rid of the pitchers having to hit in the ML.

Recently, Red Sox pitcher Clay Buchholz injured himself running the basepaths. He was the best pitcher on Boston's staff so far this year.

There is no upside to having pitchers hit. Remember when Yankees' pitcher Ching Ming Wang hurt himself in Houston. He has not been close to the pitcher he was then, which was a good one. As a Sox fan, I would know. I hated facing him, because he was so good. But I'm not happy he got injured, because it is a bad thing to wish for.

Having a DH for both the AL and NL would be ideal.
Like, if the NL had a DH for this year, I guarantee Joe Torre would have re-signed Juan Pierre so Manny could DH. Pierre was not as good of a hitter as Manny, and they didnt want to waste him on the bench. But Pierre is much better defensively than Manny, and Pierre is a better hitter than almost every pitcher in the MLB. You think Torre wants Chad Billingsly hitting and Manny playing OF, making errors and getting more tired, which will produce in a worse hitting performance? No! He would MUCH rather have the speedy, golden glove defender in left, and having Manny's bat get more rest.

The DH is the way to go, no doubt. I cannot think of a single legitimate upside to having no DH, except that you have to pay someone just to hit, but that's a terrible excuse.

And just putting it out there, the DH using AL team has not lost the non-DH using NL team in the All Star Game for like, the past 12 seasons. They must be doing something right. Just saying.

This is the most absurd thread I've seen yet. Baseball is all about the pitchers hitting. That's why the A.L. is always the "powerhouses" because they don't follow the way of how the game was originally developed. Pitchers are supposed to hit. This evens out the teams. If they have a good hitting pitcher, so be it. Baseball is a game of 9 players at a time not 10. I think, if anything, they should get rid of the STUPID DH rule. This just shows how much more talented NL pitchers are. How are you so dumb that you get injured running?

EdGein812
06-28-2010, 03:08 AM
Imagine if we forced managers to hit in the lineup too! Think of all the bunting, and sacrificing, and pinch-hitting!!! That would be totally AWESOME!!!!!!

29$JerZ
06-28-2010, 03:09 AM
How does that make sense?
Papi bats in the middle of the order
The pitcher bats 9th

You can't compare the two.

The Angels had a guy batting .176 Sunday. And he's not a pitcher.
Baltimore had a guy batting .239. Again, not a pitcher.
Or how about Toronto's amazing .200 batting avg in the 9th spot today.


Some of you act like the guy who bats 9th is always hitting .500

Truth is, the AL 9th spot really isn't batting that great. AL puts their worse offensive player in the 9 spot. Obviously, the NL does the same thing.
Sure a pitcher likely won't get on base too often.

And if a pitcher gets hurt running from home to 1st, then maybe he should get in better shape. Blame himself, not the sport. It's 90 feet....not that far of a run

And there is nothing wrong with that, some pitchers are actually decent hitters. If the problem is pitchers are getting hurt from running it's no different than any other runner. I'm pretty sure any manager will tell his pitcher not to hustle or bust down the line because they need him, it's not like he is running a marathon.

You put your worse hitters last, if they get hurt it happens. That's the sport, pitchers get hurt doing their job pitching as well. It happens.

croce_99
06-28-2010, 03:09 AM
The NL is just so much more talented in comparison. That must be why they get murdered every year in interleague play...and the all-star game...and the World Series...and what else...???...There is nothing else!!! NL baseball sucks. Maybe because half the league are utility players that can't hack it in the AL.

Take away boston and new york, and the AL doesn't look as impressive the last 15 years.


The NL has won the world series 4 out of the last 9 years. AL 5 out of the last 9 years.

But yeah.....totally murdered..

dabears2010
06-28-2010, 03:12 AM
Plus, there's the fact that pitchers can't ****ing hit!!!

Tell that to Carlos Zambrano, Micah Owings, and Dan Haren (who I believe has an 8 game hitting streak right now).

dabears2010
06-28-2010, 03:14 AM
If a batter can hit a ball, they should be able to throw it and pitch, they are on the field as well.

Yup.......As Mark Grace did for the Cubs and also Doug Discenzo (sp?).........And Randy Wells and Carlos Marmol used to be catchers.

Mudvayne91
06-28-2010, 03:14 AM
First of all, Mudvayne sucks.
?

I really could care less coming from a person who has the name from a insane killer...

sportsobsessor
06-28-2010, 03:15 AM
Starting pitchers already have such a huge bearing on the game. If he pitches good, the team most likely is going to win. If he pitches bad, the team is most likely going to lose. And you want him hitting, running, and scoring runs too!?! It's supposed to be a team game for chrissakes.

Why?


Yes, starting pitchers have a huge impact on the game they are starting, but how often do they pitch????!!!!! Starting pitchers don't pitch every day, they pitch every five days. ... By your logic, position players shouldn't play defense either because they have such a huge bearing on the game because they play every day, right??
If you look at the plate appearances for a position player and you compare that to how many batters a starting pitcher faces in a season, they are nearly identical... So, a starting pitcher has as much bearing in a season as a position player

dabears2010
06-28-2010, 03:21 AM
Second of all, I just want a NL fan or two to answer my question. I've jumped into this debate and everyone seems to conveniently ignore this one question / topic.

How much of an impact do you want ONE player to have???

Just answer that.

Again...I'm sure you missed it the first 3 times -

Starting pitchers already have such a huge bearing on the game. If he pitches good, the team most likely is going to win. If he pitches bad, the team is most likely going to lose. And you want him hitting, running, and scoring runs too!?! It's supposed to be a team game for chrissakes.

Why would you want to give the most important, most crucial player in the game anymore of an input into the outcome!!!

Why?
This theory is completely absurd. If a starting pitcher pitches good, they most likely win? Is that so? So if both starting pitchers pitch good and it's 0-0 they both win? NOT. The hitters have the largest outcome. You can't win without scoring dummy. Baseball was created with 9 PLAYERS, including the pitcher, all hitting AND playing the field and that's how it should be. The AL needs to quit cheating and get rid of the DH.

OptimisticNot
06-28-2010, 03:33 AM
How does that make sense?
Papi bats in the middle of the order
The pitcher bats 9th

You can't compare the two.

The Angels had a guy batting .176 Sunday. And he's not a pitcher.
Baltimore had a guy batting .239. Again, not a pitcher.
Or how about Toronto's amazing .200 batting avg in the 9th spot today.


Some of you act like the guy who bats 9th is always hitting .500

Truth is, the AL 9th spot really isn't batting that great. AL puts their worse offensive player in the 9 spot. Obviously, the NL does the same thing.
Sure a pitcher likely won't get on base too often.

And if a pitcher gets hurt running from home to 1st, then maybe he should get in better shape. Blame himself, not the sport. It's 90 feet....not that far of a run

Could not be truer

Twitchy
06-28-2010, 07:25 AM
Could not be truer

It's not a matter of being in shape. Pitchers are generally in very good shape. The issue is that pitchers are forced to hit and run in the majors, and these are not skills that are focused on in the minor leagues. If they were skills that were emphasized in the minors, pitchers would be hitting better than they are currently and would be less likely to injure themselves on the bases. Laugh about a pitcher running the bases all you want, but there are specific ways you're supposed to run the bases. And if you don't practice those skills, you're going to hurt yourself.

Laughable as it sounds the decision to run on the inside or the outside of the bag is pretty important depending on the situation. The outside of the bag would be better if you're running through first, whereas you might want the inside of the bag if you're heading for second. This isn't something a pitcher would know too much about if they're asked to run the bases twice a year, and because of it they can make a big mistake which will cause an injury.


The DH is the epitome of impurity

As for your purity argument earlier in the thread as to why the DH shouldn't be used, if we want to focus on bringing baseball back to it's traditional roots than we should also ban black people and non-white players from playing, because that's how baseball was traditionally. Or I guess in your words, baseball would be more "pure". I don't support that form of baseball, and it's why I don't support a "purity" argument.

bosoxlover12
06-28-2010, 07:26 AM
Forgot to mention this in the beginning. People are saying "the pitcher should hit too." Well, if pitchers can hit, do you want your batters to pitch? Do you want to have it that a position player has to pitch every game, at some point? Hell no! That is equal to a Home Run Derby half the time. (LOL at the idea of like Jason Giambi, or David Ortiz pitching. LOL)
Like someone else said, they are groomed to pitch only. Red Sox prospect Casey Kelly was a SS/P. He played a little bit of SS, but he will never play that again, because he's now a P. If pitchers have to hit, hitters have to pitch. And if you say the hitters shouldn't pitch, then why in the world should pitchers hit?!

poodski
06-28-2010, 07:51 AM
Let's see... who would you rather see at the plate with the bases loaded:
Big Papi or Tim Wakefield?

CASE CLOSED!

Why would Big Papi be hitting ninth?

Regardless until we can DH for every spot I wont support the DH. Until Adam Everett is allowed to be DH'ed for I just won't support it.

We should have pitchers, fielders, and hitters.

downsos
06-28-2010, 07:54 AM
I can't wait till an NL team plays in an AL park and the DH for the NL team gets hurt running the bases so we can see a "Ban the DH" thread. I like not having a DH because I'm an NL fan, if it were to change then oh well, I'll accept it. Don't let the Padre stuff fool you, I'm a Giants fan. How would the DH effect my team? More AB's for Molina? I'd rather see any pitcher hit than him. Same for Rowand. DH would actually hurt my team right now.

poodski
06-28-2010, 07:56 AM
Forgot to mention this in the beginning. People are saying "the pitcher should hit too." Well, if pitchers can hit, do you want your batters to pitch? Do you want to have it that a position player has to pitch every game, at some point? Hell no! That is equal to a Home Run Derby half the time. (LOL at the idea of like Jason Giambi, or David Ortiz pitching. LOL)
Like someone else said, they are groomed to pitch only. Red Sox prospect Casey Kelly was a SS/P. He played a little bit of SS, but he will never play that again, because he's now a P. If pitchers have to hit, hitters have to pitch. And if you say the hitters shouldn't pitch, then why in the world should pitchers hit?!

Because those hitters are already playing another position. Jason Giambi shouldn't pitch he should be playing first base.

Hitters should play defense, and defenders should hit. Its that simple. Pitchers are defenders.

TyHill
06-28-2010, 09:15 AM
Forgot to mention this in the beginning. People are saying "the pitcher should hit too." Well, if pitchers can hit, do you want your batters to pitch? Do you want to have it that a position player has to pitch every game, at some point? Hell no! That is equal to a Home Run Derby half the time. (LOL at the idea of like Jason Giambi, or David Ortiz pitching. LOL)
Like someone else said, they are groomed to pitch only. Red Sox prospect Casey Kelly was a SS/P. He played a little bit of SS, but he will never play that again, because he's now a P. If pitchers have to hit, hitters have to pitch. And if you say the hitters shouldn't pitch, then why in the world should pitchers hit?!

ok well lets look at the other side of it..do we groom hitters to be JUST HITTERS? No, they have to play the field so with that id like to see Papi get his fat *** out there and play some defense or is playing NL teams enough fielding for him?? . Papi could get hurt playing 1st base then we would hear the same thing, "He shouldnt be fielding" lol DH is a joke.

TyHill
06-28-2010, 09:16 AM
because those hitters are already playing another position. Jason giambi shouldn't pitch he should be playing first base.

Hitters should play defense, and defenders should hit. Its that simple. Pitchers are defenders.

+1

Crucis
06-28-2010, 09:51 AM
I prefer pure baseball.


Then I guess that you oppose the ground rule double rule? (Prior to this rule change, a fair ball that bounced over the OF wall was considered a HR.)

Or the rule against spitballs? (Yes, they were legal at one point.)

At what point in time do you stick the stake in the rules to define what "pure" baseball really is?

Rules change. Deal with it.

MetsFanatic19
06-28-2010, 09:51 AM
dh is bs. the pitchers are baseball players on the baseball field on the mlb roster. if anything, get rid of the dh in the american league. if a position player got hurt running the basebaths, nobody cares and understood it was an injury. maybe the pitchers should learn to run 40 feet

avrpatsfan
06-28-2010, 10:02 AM
Catchers catch so why should they hit?
Infielders and outfielders field so why should they hit?

Pitchers have been batting since the beginning of baseball.
And since the beginning of baseball there wasn't instant replays, but they make the game more fair. And there is a HUGE difference between fielding and catching and pitching. Catchers and Fielders FIELD because there is defense in baseball. That is a terrible example.

poodski
06-28-2010, 10:13 AM
Rules change. Deal with it.

Correct rules change so they should get rid of the DH.

Deal with it.

ChetSteadman
06-28-2010, 10:28 AM
The thing AL fans dont understand is that its not the physical act of the pitchers hitting that's exciting, its the strategy. In a close game in later innings, you have to choose whether you want to try to produce extra offense with a pinch hitter or if you want to risk it and let your pitcher hit and hope he continues to pitch well. Its something that's completely lost in the AL. Not to mention, hit batsmen is far more prevalent in the AL than the NL. NL pitchers have to think of the possibility that if they plunk a batter, their next at bat is going to be a painful one. AL pitchers can sit up there all day and throw inside all they want. Its an argument that will go on forever and Im going to admit Im biased as an NL fan, but it appears that there's way more arguments for removing the DH rule than enforcing it in the NL.

Either way, to be truly fair, there needs to be some normalcy across the board and allowing the NL to use the DH when they're away is not even close to the answer. No NL team has a guy who is ONLY a hitter getting paid some ludicrous amount to PURELY hit just sitting on his bench. We simply get to take the bench guy with the highest batting average and stick him in the lineup. If you think that's fair at all, you're insane. The fact that this is employed in the All Star Game and is used to determine home field advantage is ridiculous.

poodski
06-28-2010, 10:49 AM
The thing AL fans dont understand is that its not the physical act of the pitchers hitting that's exciting, its the strategy. In a close game in later innings, you have to choose whether you want to try to produce extra offense with a pinch hitter or if you want to risk it and let your pitcher hit and hope he continues to pitch well. Its something that's completely lost in the AL. Not to mention, hit batsmen is far more prevalent in the AL than the NL. NL pitchers have to think of the possibility that if they plunk a batter, their next at bat is going to be a painful one. AL pitchers can sit up there all day and throw inside all they want. Its an argument that will go on forever and Im going to admit Im biased as an NL fan, but it appears that there's way more arguments for removing the DH rule than enforcing it in the NL.

Either way, to be truly fair, there needs to be some normalcy across the board and allowing the NL to use the DH when they're away is not even close to the answer. No NL team has a guy who is ONLY a hitter getting paid some ludicrous amount to PURELY hit just sitting on his bench. We simply get to take the bench guy with the highest batting average and stick him in the lineup. If you think that's fair at all, you're insane. The fact that this is employed in the All Star Game and is used to determine home field advantage is ridiculous.

Precisely. I don't really get excited to watch a pitcher hit, but it makes the game better when there is actual strategy involved.

So far this year in the AL there have been 602 pinch hitter PA with an average of 43 per team, the Blue Jays being the lowest at 24 PA.

The NL on the other hand has had 1778 pinch hit AP, with an average of 111 per team, with no team lower than 78 PA.

The AL just isn't for me.

samanjerry
06-28-2010, 10:51 AM
obviously al and nl were two seperate leagues before they joined forces.
so why dont you write to selig and ask him to seperate em again.

this is all personal opinion. there is no right or wrong. if your redsox were always an nl team with pitchers hitting then you wouldnt be complaining. injuries happen, if you really want you should complain about there being a rule of where players have to run around bases. lets get Segways!

Caps1989
06-28-2010, 11:21 AM
You know, Babe Ruth did some pitching back in his day. Some food for thought there.

awesomeovie8
06-28-2010, 11:26 AM
No one really likes to watch pitchers hit, but things probably aren't going to change. I think it's an easy way out of an inning too many times to pitch around guys to pitch to such an inferior quality. It makes the game much less exciting and competitive.

You do realize it makes the strategy in baseball much greater when the pitcher has to hit?

Also god forbid a player has to actually be able to field his position

Caps1989
06-28-2010, 11:30 AM
Imagine if we forced managers to hit in the lineup too! Think of all the bunting, and sacrificing, and pinch-hitting!!! That would be totally AWESOME!!!!!!

Totally!!! Imagine that, players bunting, and sacrificing, and pinch-hitting!!! You make it sound like how baseball was meant to be played!!! OMFG!!

Rent-a-Hero
06-28-2010, 11:34 AM
The DH position brings perfect balance into the game of baseball. You have the pitcher who is a 100% defensive player and the DH who is 100% offensive. Its perfectly semetrical.

-RaH-

Canterbury
06-28-2010, 11:36 AM
The only beef that I really have against the DH is that it is counted as its own position. The DH stays in the game despite the fact that the pitcher they are hitting for is out of the game.

If the DH was connected to the pitcher it is designating for and that the team would either have to use another DH or use relief pitchers to bat (so bench players actually get to see some action), then as a National League fan I would easily and instantly welcome the Designated Hitter and MLB will be as one.


Forgot to mention this in the beginning. People are saying "the pitcher should hit too." Well, if pitchers can hit, do you want your batters to pitch?
MOST BASEBALL PLAYERS ARE NOT IDENTIFIED AS BATTERS, BUT RATHER BY POSITION.

A baseball player is obligated to play their position. A First Baseman is suppose to play First Base and all its roles included, A Catcher is suppose to play Catcher and all its roles, and the Pitcher is suppose to do everything he should do on the mound. "Batters" aka First Basemen, Second Basemen, SS, etc, will not pitch because their current position does not allow them to.

With that being said, Pitchers and Fielders are all baseball players. If they are all on the field, why should one legitimate baseball player be excluded from the lineup because of position?


At what point in time do you stick the stake in the rules to define what "pure" baseball really is?
Not so much pure, but more in that each crazy change was shared between the two leagues. Both leagues are forced to adapt and share the consequences. Now we have two leagues playing the same sport with different rules that may give a typical team on a certain league an automatic advantage. Huzzah.

miller74
06-28-2010, 11:42 AM
I prefer pure baseball.

I prefer to watch pro baseball and not sit there and wonder if i could do a better job than the pitcher who is embarrassing/injuring himself.

MIKE&IKE's
06-28-2010, 11:48 AM
actually alot of pitchers take pride in being good hitters, and bunters as well- imagine micah owings in the AL, what would he do? continue to be the mediocre pitcher that he is with out hitting, and he could rake for a pitcher. and these pitchers are athletes they should be able to run around the bases and frankly all of these injuries to pitchers on the base paths seem to happen during inter-league play to an al pitcher. as a mets fan, the last time i recall a pitcher getting injured on the bases for the mets was in 05 (brian bannister) otherwise it just doesnt happen often

TyHill
06-28-2010, 11:56 AM
actually alot of pitchers take pride in being good hitters, and bunters as well- imagine micah owings in the AL, what would he do? continue to be the mediocre pitcher that he is with out hitting, and he could rake for a pitcher. and these pitchers are athletes they should be able to run around the bases and frankly all of these injuries to pitchers on the base paths seem to happen during inter-league play to an al pitcher. as a mets fan, the last time i recall a pitcher getting injured on the bases for the mets was in 05 (brian bannister) otherwise it just doesnt happen often

Right, If AL pitchers ran bases regularly they probably wouldnt be injured and this thread would've never been created. Just Sayin..

Pinstripe pride
06-28-2010, 12:01 PM
any arguement based off the idea that athletes shouldn't have to run is stupid. I see know reason to change the rules because a few professional athletes injure themselves running

BcEuAbRsS
06-28-2010, 12:02 PM
I could give a **** less what the AL does! With that being said... leave the NL alone! If you dont like ur AL pitchers hiiting/running then get rid of interleague play and make it two seperate leagues again...

Zmaster52
06-28-2010, 12:05 PM
The DH is stupid. It's for people that can't hit, baseball is about fielding also, pitchers having to hit makes the game more interesting in what they could do. It's Bucholz fault that he got injured, he just didn't run properly. If pitchers get injured on the bases, then it shows you how un-athletic they could be. David Ortiz for instance. the fat slob can't play any position but can only hit. You get up, you hit, then you sit back down. not very exciting. The DH is a position for people who have almost no athletic ability in them. IMO DH should get the **** out of baseball. it's a waste.

kyle012012
06-28-2010, 12:13 PM
I have a great idea. They should just let the great defensive players play the field and then let the ones that are only good at hitting hit. That way you have 8 gold glove caliber players playing the field then you have 9 8 foot tall 500 pound line backers swinging for the fences. This is going to catch on...

Caps1989
06-28-2010, 12:22 PM
I have a great idea. They should just let the great defensive players play the field and then let the ones that are only good at hitting hit. That way you have 8 gold glove caliber players playing the field then you have 9 8 foot tall 500 pound line backers swinging for the fences. This is going to catch on...

Dont forget we need 4 designated runners for the bases for those 500 pound Papi's

poodski
06-28-2010, 12:24 PM
Dont forget we need 4 designated runners for the bases for those 500 pound Papi's

Good point. We should definitely have designated runners.

kyle012012
06-28-2010, 12:29 PM
Dont forget we need 4 designated runners for the bases for those 500 pound Papi's

Wow, you're right I don't know how I overlooked that.

Swashcuff
06-28-2010, 12:44 PM
the OP is the lamest argument I've ever heard for the DH.

Skippy15
06-28-2010, 12:48 PM
Injuries are part of the game. maybe the AL teams should make there pitchers be ready to do things like run the bases, they are baseball players right?

1-800-STFU
06-28-2010, 01:15 PM
The DH is stupid. It's for people that can't hit, baseball is about fielding also, pitchers having to hit makes the game more interesting in what they could do. It's Bucholz fault that he got injured, he just didn't run properly. If pitchers get injured on the bases, then it shows you how un-athletic they could be. David Ortiz for instance. the fat slob can't play any position but can only hit. You get up, you hit, then you sit back down. not very exciting. The DH is a position for people who have almost no athletic ability in them. IMO DH should get the **** out of baseball. it's a waste.

Your a waste.

Swashcuff
06-28-2010, 01:32 PM
I got a question for all those that are for the DH. Are we talking about BASEBALL Players (athletes) or guys who are just good at what they do (one dimensional)?

OptimisticNot
06-28-2010, 01:43 PM
It's not a matter of being in shape. Pitchers are generally in very good shape. The issue is that pitchers are forced to hit and run in the majors, and these are not skills that are focused on in the minor leagues. If they were skills that were emphasized in the minors, pitchers would be hitting better than they are currently and would be less likely to injure themselves on the bases. Laugh about a pitcher running the bases all you want, but there are specific ways you're supposed to run the bases. And if you don't practice those skills, you're going to hurt yourself.

Laughable as it sounds the decision to run on the inside or the outside of the bag is pretty important depending on the situation. The outside of the bag would be better if you're running through first, whereas you might want the inside of the bag if you're heading for second. This isn't something a pitcher would know too much about if they're asked to run the bases twice a year, and because of it they can make a big mistake which will cause an injury.


Pitchers run the bases in the NL all the time and manage to make out quite fine. It's baseball, it's part of the game, it's crazy how timid baseball has become in the face of injuries. Injuries are a part of baseball, they are a part of life. We are so scared that players are going to get hurt we have modified the game so much just to prevent even the slightest of injuries. Baseball execs and players need to stop throwing balls and rather start to grow some.



As for your purity argument earlier in the thread as to why the DH shouldn't be used, if we want to focus on bringing baseball back to it's traditional roots than we should also ban black people and non-white players from playing, because that's how baseball was traditionally. Or I guess in your words, baseball would be more "pure". I don't support that form of baseball, and it's why I don't support a "purity" argument.

Dude, come on, that's a bit of a reach... you know what I meant. I'm talking about the fundamentals of the actual game.

ClayMatthews
06-28-2010, 01:55 PM
Forgot to mention this in the beginning. People are saying "the pitcher should hit too." Well, if pitchers can hit, do you want your batters to pitch? Do you want to have it that a position player has to pitch every game, at some point? Hell no! That is equal to a Home Run Derby half the time. (LOL at the idea of like Jason Giambi, or David Ortiz pitching. LOL)
Like someone else said, they are groomed to pitch only. Red Sox prospect Casey Kelly was a SS/P. He played a little bit of SS, but he will never play that again, because he's now a P. If pitchers have to hit, hitters have to pitch. And if you say the hitters shouldn't pitch, then why in the world should pitchers hit?!

You act like nobody else on the field throws the baseball to another guys target.

Zmaster52
06-28-2010, 01:56 PM
Your a waste.

:mad:

cardullo4321
06-28-2010, 02:02 PM
I just not like that fact that AL teams have a major advantage over NL Teams in the playoffs since AL teams can carry a $10 million DH. No teams in the NL have a pinch hitter that can compare to DHs suchs as Vlad Guerrero. Vlad could not even play in the NL anymore.

In addition, catchers such as Mauer and Martinez are freshier in the playoffs since they get to DH. If they played in the NL, they would have to catch everyday or sit the bench. Martinez and Mauer would not start at 1B over Morneau and Youkalis.

hawksd911
06-28-2010, 02:07 PM
I like when pitchers hit...

Luxy312
06-28-2010, 02:25 PM
The arguments can and do go both ways. I like that some players have and are extending their careers by filling the role of DH. While I understand the argument of every player being on the field on defense and thus having to bat, I think there's a natural separation already of duties. Not every player does every thing, nor should they. I'm personally an AL fan and wouldn't get rid of the DH. It makes for better baseball in my opinion. One last point is that they use the DH in almost every other level of organized play (college, high school, club) on some level or another. The NL is one of the few groups in baseball remaining that does not. To suggest getting rid of the DH would suggest that it should be taken out of colleges, amateurs, and every other facet of baseball. I think it's much easier if the NL adopted it, rather than the AL abolishing it.

theslick1
06-28-2010, 02:37 PM
The arguments can and do go both ways. I like that some players have and are extending their careers by filling the role of DH. While I understand the argument of every player being on the field on defense and thus having to bat, I think there's a natural separation already of duties. Not every player does every thing, nor should they. I'm personally an AL fan and wouldn't get rid of the DH. It makes for better baseball in my opinion. One last point is that they use the DH in almost every other level of organized play (college, high school, club) on some level or another. The NL is one of the few groups in baseball remaining that does not. To suggest getting rid of the DH would suggest that it should be taken out of colleges, amateurs, and every other facet of baseball. I think it's much easier if the NL adopted it, rather than the AL abolishing it.

This is a key point. The DH has been around for four decades and it's universally used except in the NL and in one of the two Japanese leagues. Time for the NL to join the 21st century.

ugafan
06-28-2010, 02:39 PM
This is a key point. The DH has been around for four decades and it's universally used except in the NL and in one of the two Japanese leagues. Time for the NL to join the 21st century.

:laugh2:

sf-fanatic
06-28-2010, 02:53 PM
i like how everyone is bring up random points "the manager should hit too" and "position players should pitch" how does this make sense? when was this ever used in baseball...back then in baseball there was no DH thats the argument lots of people are using and managers hitting and position players hitting makes no sense at all and was never a part of baseball

redwhitenblue
06-28-2010, 03:00 PM
....So this discussion starts not because a pitcher got hurt while hitting, but because a pitcher got hurt while running?


There's just as much of a chance Bucholz pulled up lame the next time he went to cover 1st or went to field a bunt.

redwhitenblue
06-28-2010, 03:29 PM
Well Wang did it too so there's a pandemic of AL pitchers that are so concentrated on pitching that they can't run the bases so thats why they should not hit.
Doesn't change what I just said. That could happen covering first or fielding a bunt. They're athletes, blaming running for getting hurt is a joke.

poodski
06-28-2010, 03:33 PM
....So this discussion starts not because a pitcher got hurt while hitting, but because a pitcher got hurt while running?


There's just as much of a chance Bucholz pulled up lame the next time he went to cover 1st or went to field a bunt.

The AL should institute the DF (designated fielder) to play behind the pitchers mound to the pitcher doesnt have to field the ball to risk being hurt.

mulcahy26
06-28-2010, 03:42 PM
pitchers are there to pitch, not hit. they dont spend time in the minors worrying about hitting. national league needs to get the dh, it would make the world series more fair. national league fans talk about keeping it to keep the game "pure". hell, why don't we just bring back four or five strikes per out because that's what it used to be way back when...why dont we have the pitcher call where he is going to throw it, or the batter tell the pitcher where he wants it? That's the way it used to be...so if you really want "Pure" baseball lets go to the original rules...no because its stupid and the game EVOLVES...national league needs to get with the times...i mean do you ever see a offensive tackle in football throw the ball or be a qb? why should a pitcher have to hit? it's not what they are there to do...

redwhitenblue
06-28-2010, 03:45 PM
pitchers are there to pitch, not hit. they dont spend time in the minors worrying about hitting. national league needs to get the dh, it would make the world series more fair. national league fans talk about keeping it to keep the game "pure". hell, why don't we just bring back four or five strikes per out because that's what it used to be way back when...why dont we have the pitcher call where he is going to throw it, or the batter tell the pitcher where he wants it? That's the way it used to be...so if you really want "Pure" baseball lets go to the original rules...no because its stupid and the game EVOLVES...national league needs to get with the times...i mean do you ever see a offensive tackle in football throw the ball or be a qb? why should a pitcher have to hit? it's not what they are there to do...
Umm...4 or 5 strikes per out?

I agree though, let's go back to the original rules...and teams.

With only 6 teams, the Cubs have a better chance of finally winning a WS!


But your comparison sucks. At no point in any league does the OL throw the ball. In leagues and in all of baseball now, pitchers will hit. Especially with interleague play, pitchers should at least take the basic batting practice.


If a team signs two DH's, should they get a designated fielder because a DH is not there to field, just hit.

mulcahy26
06-28-2010, 03:51 PM
sorry...meant 9 balls for a walk and not 4...

here are some other "pure" rules we should follow to keep the game pure
http://jockandballs.com/2009/09/08/10-craziest-baseball-rules/

mulcahy26
06-28-2010, 03:54 PM
and i was right lol in 1887 they did have a four strike out rule

redwhitenblue
06-28-2010, 03:58 PM
sorry...meant 9 balls for a walk and not 4...

here are some other "pure" rules we should follow to keep the game pure
http://jockandballs.com/2009/09/08/10-craziest-baseball-rules/
Sounds like the basic rules were made in 1883, so from 1883 until 1973, the rules were basically the same. A lot of those changes were the game evolving to more logical terms. What is the logic in the creation of the DH?


And some of those rules are amusing, I wouldn't care if the pitcher put whatever they want on the ball.

redwhitenblue
06-28-2010, 04:01 PM
and i was right lol in 1887 they did have a four strike out rule
Exactly, from the 1880's. Less than a decade into the true creation of the league.

Then for 90 years it was basically consistent with a few tweaks made to even out competition-not completely alter the game like the DH.

mulcahy26
06-28-2010, 04:02 PM
With the DH the pitcher cant weasel his way out of an inning. theres no easy way out.. theres no intentionally walking the 8 hitter to get an almost sure out. This is really a pointless argument because most NL fans are gonna say they hate the DH and most AL fans want the DH.

fishfan79
06-28-2010, 04:04 PM
get rid of the DH and let pitchers hit in both leagues

The DH is total and complete crap and is not truly part of baseball just a way to market to individuals that like bigger numbers. Pitchers are there to play baseball that includes pitching and Hitting!

mulcahy26
06-28-2010, 04:09 PM
thats your opinion that the dh is crap...to me, a pitcher being forced to bat is crap

redwhitenblue
06-28-2010, 04:13 PM
thats your opinion that the dh is crap...to me, a pitcher being forced to bat is crap
Why though?

People can't really say what they don't like other than "they're not good at hitting." It's strategy--and almost all pitchers were pretty damn good hitters at some point (hs).


The DH just makes the game stale. The entire bench and strategy is fairly pointless.


I love when they IBB the 8 hitter, because it's a dumb move. Do you realize how rare that occurrence is? The pitcher would LOVE to start an inning against a pitcher rather than take a chance for a bad pitch to cost him another run. Guys don't IBB 8 hitters often.

Zmaster52
06-28-2010, 04:19 PM
get rid of the DH and let pitchers hit in both leagues

The DH is total and complete crap and is not truly part of baseball just a way to market to individuals that like bigger numbers. Pitchers are there to play baseball that includes pitching and Hitting!

god bless you.

Hopkins
06-28-2010, 04:38 PM
If a batter can hit a ball, they should be able to throw it and pitch, they are on the field as well.

No but the batter goes in the field and plays defense, thats the point, all players should play both sides of the ball, thats what makes baseball great. They do this for a living, why do they deserve special treatment? the way baseball was created was to have 9 guys in the field and all 9 of those guys hit, so what if pitchers aren't great hitters, but hey so are some defensive minded fielders, but you should play both sides of the ball no matter who you are, if a player has a problem with that they shouldnt be in the MLB. There professional athlete's and get paid to play baseball, baseball involves playing offense and defense. Next people will be talking about making a designated fielder for the defensive minded players who can't hit, just cause he's not the best hitter doesn't mean he shouldn't hit, THATS BASEBALL, its a team sport, you don't just get a guy to do one certain thing, they play the whole game. If a pitcher has a weakness at hitting thats the teams problem, just like in hockey and your specialty is scoring goals, you still gotta play some defense, cause its part of the game, even if you suck at it, the coach is the guy who has to make it work.

I also like the strategy it involves having a pitcher hit, you gotta make the decision if you wanna keep your pitcher in to hit late in the game so he can go back on the mound the next inning, or take your chances with a PH and put in a new pitcher the next inning. To me thats what baseball is all about.

Hopkins
06-28-2010, 04:48 PM
Your logic is flawed.

If they are pitchers and shouldnt hit

Left fielders shouldnt hit. they are fielders.

Catchers shouldnt hit. they catch.

I am sorry another american league pitcher got hurt RUNNING. Hey lets from now on let American league teams use dr. designated runners. Remember during PE a kid who was hurt could hit but couldnt run. they got to use another runner.

Exactly, I don't especially like watching Benji Molina run the basepaths, but he is a BASEBALL PLAYER, and thats what they do, play baseball, not just hit or run. You don't just play what your strengths are, thats just not what the game is all about. Next people will be talking Designated Runners and fielders, not in the spirit of the game if you ask me.

I just hate when people complain about Bucholz getting hurt, isn't the guy suppose to be a professional athlete getting paid millions of dollars? and people are worried about him running 90 feet? give me a break, he should have been in better shape, these guys are athletes, thats what they do.

How much of an impact do I want one player to have? as much as he can if he is talented enough, i never heard a manager say "well I don't want this guy to have TOO much of an impact" not even including the fact that pitchers play every 5th day, so that limits some impact right there, I don't understand that argument.

Hopkins
06-28-2010, 04:53 PM
And it doesn't add legitimate strategy. It adds strategy by default because you have to "play around" the pitcher. If the manager had to hit, it would involve the exact same strategy.

If a player is totally inept, and in turn you have to play around that player, that doesn't make for good sport in my opinion.

And what about the strategy involved in an at-bat? There's much more strategy involved when a pitcher has to go up against a DH who actually knows how to hit. To me, that is baseball; the chess match and battle between every pitch. To me, there's nothing greater, than having a HOF player like Jim Thome or Vladimir Guerrero compete in a battle of skill and wits in a one-on-one matchup against a great pitcher.

A great hitter vs. a great pitcher. That's when legitimate strategy comes into play, pitch-by-pitch.

That is great baseball.

Im not trying to bust your stones our anything like that, but you do seem to keep repeating yourself in your posts man, obviously you feel strongly about this, but you made your point, repeating it isn't gonna change anyones mind.

papipapsmanny
06-28-2010, 05:01 PM
I dont get the NL fans argument

You want the crappiest fielders to field and the crappiest hitters to you and then you claim its better quality baseball

illogical, makes no sense

Hopkins
06-28-2010, 05:04 PM
I dont get the NL fans argument

You want the crappiest fielders to field and the crappiest hitters to you and then you claim its better quality baseball

illogical, makes no sense

no, we want the players to play the whole game, if there crappy players thats the front office's problem fault for putting them on the team.

Who said they want the crappiest fielders to field and crappiest hitters to hit? where the hell is that coming from, doesn't make much sense to me.

Yankees Suck
06-28-2010, 05:19 PM
The DH rule makes pitchers better. The NL pitchers get to strike out opposing pitchers which helps rack up their K's and keeps their pitch count down. Last year Verlander had 269 K's and only played in 2-3 inter-league games. Tim Lincecum had 261 K's, but how many were against the opposing teams pitchers?

dbow1920
06-28-2010, 05:21 PM
Id rather they just allow the pitchers to hit and get rid of the DH, but I just want them to settle on something

Its such an advantage for the AL teams when it comes to the World Series (see Hideki Matsui)

bosoxlover12
06-28-2010, 05:29 PM
For NL fans, what would you rather have. Lets's say you are a Mets fan. Would you rather have Johan Santana pitch 6, 7 innings of baseball, and hitting 0-3 because he's tired and can't hit, OR have Santana throw a shutout becuase he gets rested during the innings break and have someone like Beltran or Pagan hitting?

nymetsrule
06-28-2010, 05:35 PM
For NL fans, what would you rather have. Lets's say you are a Mets fan. Would you rather have Johan Santana pitch 6, 7 innings of baseball, and hitting 0-3 because he's tired and can't hit, OR have Santana throw a shutout becuase he gets rested during the innings break and have someone like Beltran or Pagan hitting?

Santana is a player out on the field, therefore he should be in the lineup. It makes no sense to just...exempt people from the lineup. Hell, if pitchers shouldn't have to bat, why does the AL allow catchers to bat? Their job is just as demanding as a pitchers. :shrug:

MrSexy
06-28-2010, 05:48 PM
What about hitters in the midst of a huge slump? Should you be able to use a DH for them too?

redwhitenblue
06-28-2010, 05:55 PM
The DH rule makes pitchers better. The NL pitchers get to strike out opposing pitchers which helps rack up their K's and keeps their pitch count down. Last year Verlander had 269 K's and only played in 2-3 inter-league games. Tim Lincecum had 261 K's, but how many were against the opposing teams pitchers?
I'm just going to use an AL team, the White Sox (because it's the one I know the best).

Juan Pierre and Gordon Beckham both have an OPS below .600. Are they really that much better than a pitcher hitting?


On the Twins, JJ Hardy and Brendan Harris is under a .600 OPS.

Even on the Yankees, in his time there Randy Winn is under .600

The NL teams don't trot out guys with OPS' that low so often, because it destroys an offense to have another weak hitter, while the AL teams will continue to use them because the rest of the lineup can pick up the slack.



Not to mention, and I mean this seriously to the AL fans, how can it not get boring when you never have to question any strategical moves a team makes?

No double switches, no concerns about losing a pitcher with the 9 spot coming up next inning, rarely even get PH's.

TyHill
06-28-2010, 06:00 PM
I'm just going to use an AL team, the White Sox (because it's the one I know the best).

Juan Pierre and Gordon Beckham both have an OPS below .600. Are they really that much better than a pitcher hitting?


On the Twins, JJ Hardy and Brendan Harris is under a .600 OPS.

Even on the Yankees, in his time there Randy Winn is under .600

The NL teams don't trot out guys with OPS' that low so often, because it destroys an offense to have another weak hitter, while the AL teams will continue to use them because the rest of the lineup can pick up the slack.



Not to mention, and I mean this seriously to the AL fans, how can it not get boring when you never have to question any strategical moves a team makes?

No double switches, no concerns about losing a pitcher with the 9 spot coming up next inning, rarely even get PH's.

Its a big home run derby.

TheGiantYankee
06-28-2010, 06:20 PM
I'll never understand how people can say it is better to have a pitcher hitting, you score more runs with a DH which leads to more victories in tight games, the starter gets to go more innings which leads to less burned out bullpens, and less injuries occur with a DH I am not even talking about just the pitcher..if a player is hurting you could just throw them at DH and give them 50% rest

Matchstckman
06-28-2010, 06:39 PM
Awwwwwwwwwwww poooooooooooooooooor Claaaaaaaaay Buchoooooooooolz.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaa. (http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/1795210/2/istockphoto_1795210_cry_baby.jpg)

redwhitenblue
06-28-2010, 07:23 PM
I'll never understand how people can say it is better to have a pitcher hitting, you score more runs with a DH which leads to more victories in tight games, the starter gets to go more innings which leads to less burned out bullpens, and less injuries occur with a DH I am not even talking about just the pitcher..if a player is hurting you could just throw them at DH and give them 50% rest
:facepalm:
So with both teams hitting with a DH, they both score more runs and they both win more close games?

That's faulty reasoning.


You are right though, it's a lot less strategy with bullpens, starters, PH's etc. Unfortunatley a lot of people like to see strategy.

Hopkins
06-28-2010, 07:27 PM
To me it comes down to one question, are these guys baseball players or just pitchers?

Why don't we just make it like football and have an offense and a defense, the best fielders will field, and the best hitters will hit, just make it 18 on 18, sure it would be more "exciting" but thats not what baseball is, right?

Everyone loves to see Pujols face Halladay, but you can't always have the best guys hit every at bat. Sometimes your gonna have Julio Lugo facing Brian Bannister, thats just the way it is, you can't always cater to a players strength, sometimes a player needs to perform a task in the game that may not be one of his strengths. So I hate that argument "would you rather see Ortiz hit or Wakefield" I mean come on.

Thats where strategy comes into play, why coaches need to make a decision wether there gonna get a defensive player that will strengthen the defense and hurt the offense, or an offensive player that will hurt the defense. Thats why GM's try so hard to find 5 tool players, cause in baseball you need to be better than more than just one thing. To me that will take it in a direction where you have a bunch of specialist's who only do what there good at.

Fielders hit, a pitcher is part of the field and like the rest of his team should hit, he's probably not the only guy who isn't great at hitting in that lineup. So are these guys professional Major League athletes? or just Pitching specialists?

1908_Cubs
06-28-2010, 07:36 PM
**** that. Get rid of the DH.

DH's are for women and members of the Kansas City Royals.

kmoneyjuice
06-28-2010, 08:08 PM
The poster is on crack and butt hurt that his pitcher got injured. real baseball is only currently being played in the NL.

Yankees Suck
06-28-2010, 08:09 PM
I'm just going to use an AL team, the White Sox (because it's the one I know the best).

Juan Pierre and Gordon Beckham both have an OPS below .600. Are they really that much better than a pitcher hitting?


On the Twins, JJ Hardy and Brendan Harris is under a .600 OPS.

Even on the Yankees, in his time there Randy Winn is under .600

The NL teams don't trot out guys with OPS' that low so often, because it destroys an offense to have another weak hitter, while the AL teams will continue to use them because the rest of the lineup can pick up the slack.



Not to mention, and I mean this seriously to the AL fans, how can it not get boring when you never have to question any strategical moves a team makes?

No double switches, no concerns about losing a pitcher with the 9 spot coming up next inning, rarely even get PH's.

The examples you picked are horrible. Pierre never has hit only in the NL with the Dodgers from facing AAA-type pitchers. Gordon Beckham is having a sophomore slump.

J.J. Hardy has been injured almost the entire season. Brendan Harris serves as a back-up to Nick Punto at 3rd base. You are picking back-ups on AL teams while you are comparing them to NL players which you never even listed. Also Randy Winn was designated for assignment on the Yanks a few weeks bat and he is now a Cardinal. So he can bring his piss poor bat to the National League as well. Maybe the NL would score 4-5 runs a game if they switched to having a DH instead of letting pitchers hit and having pinch hitters like Matt Stairs.

sf-fanatic
06-28-2010, 08:16 PM
Also, imo the NL managers might also be better than the managers in the AL. In the AL, managers have less responsibility. All they really have to do is put out a lineup card and control the bullpen. In the AL, it is rare to see teams using pinch hitters for their starters. In the NL, there is a lot more to worry about as to when to pinch hit and how to use the bench which is very important as well as the lineups and bullpen. You have to put out the lineup that can have the most offense while still being able to play defense. Just ask Dodger fans, Joe Torre was amazing in the AL, but most of the Dodger fans want him fired. It may be a coincidence, but i think Torres struggles as an NL manager is more than a coincidence. He often misuses his bench as well as his bullpen.

redwhitenblue
06-28-2010, 08:17 PM
The examples you picked are horrible. Pierre never has hit only in the NL with the Dodgers from facing AAA-type pitchers. Gordon Beckham is having a sophomore slump.

J.J. Hardy has been injured almost the entire season. Brendan Harris serves as a back-up to Nick Punto at 3rd base. You are picking back-ups on AL teams while you are comparing them to NL players which you never even listed. Also Randy Winn was designated for assignment on the Yanks a few weeks bat and he is now a Cardinal. So he can bring his piss poor bat to the National League as well. Maybe the NL would score 4-5 runs a game if they switched to having a DH instead of letting pitchers hit and having pinch hitters like Matt Stairs.
I made sure to pick guys with at least 100 AB's. While they may be 'backups', they're playing quite often.



The problem is that AL fans love runs and NL fans appreciate great pitching and strategy.

The AL is where young fans join, it's exciting and more attractively on the cover. Deep down the NL is where strategy and thought-process is necessary.



I also ALWAYS get a kick out of people acting as if the AL is some superior force offensively. The NL and AL are routinely very close in offensive statistics.

(Waits for "that's just because the NL pitchers suck and allow more runs to crappy NL hitters")

Yankees Suck
06-28-2010, 08:18 PM
The poster is on crack and butt hurt that his pitcher got injured. real baseball is only currently being played in the NL.

Apparently if you don't agree with someone they must be on crack and but hurt...?:facepalm:

sf-fanatic
06-28-2010, 08:18 PM
I'll never understand how people can say it is better to have a pitcher hitting, you score more runs with a DH which leads to more victories in tight games, the starter gets to go more innings which leads to less burned out bullpens, and less injuries occur with a DH I am not even talking about just the pitcher..if a player is hurting you could just throw them at DH and give them 50% rest

What's wrong with low scoring games? This isn't a video game. I'd rather see a pitching dueling a 0-0 game than an 8-8 game. It is the same as basketball. Offense wins games, but in baseball's case pitching would win championships.

Yankees Suck
06-28-2010, 08:21 PM
I made sure to pick guys with at least 100 AB's. While they may be 'backups', they're playing quite often.



The problem is that AL fans love runs and NL fans appreciate great pitching and strategy.

The AL is where young fans join, it's exciting and more attractively on the cover. Deep down the NL is where strategy and thought-process is necessary.



I also ALWAYS get a kick out of people acting as if the AL is some superior force offensively. The NL and AL are routinely very close in offensive statistics.

(Waits for "that's just because the NL pitchers suck and allow more runs to crappy NL hitters")

Compare the AL East to any division in the NL and it is not even close.

stupidmop
06-28-2010, 08:23 PM
I agree with the OP. We should change the rules of baseball because multimillion dollar athletes can't run in a straight line for 90 feet without hurting themselves.

Yes. Make it happen Selig.

1908_Cubs
06-28-2010, 08:25 PM
Compare the AL East to any division in the NL and it is not even close.

The NL East is pretty damned good. Especially considering the Phillies are way underachieving right now and missing Rollins. Maybe not as good as the AL East but to say "not even close" is absolutely stupid.

Hell even the ****ing Nationals have a good offensive core with Dunn, Zimmerman and Willingham offensively and now with Strasburg at the helm of the rotation have a legitimate pitcher. And that's the worst team.

Hopkins
06-28-2010, 08:34 PM
The problem is that AL fans love runs and NL fans appreciate great pitching and strategy.

The AL is where young fans join, it's exciting and more attractively on the cover. Deep down the NL is where strategy and thought-process is necessary.



this

sf-fanatic
06-28-2010, 08:38 PM
Compare the AL East to any division in the NL and it is not even close.

Yeah i agree with you if you add up the salary of each team in the AL East and compare it with any division in the NL, its not even close.

Great point made.

mulcahy26
06-28-2010, 09:17 PM
Yeah i agree with you if you add up the salary of each team in the AL East and compare it with any division in the NL, its not even close.

Great point made.


i hope your not saying its all about money in the al east....boston and ny big spenders

look at philly and the mets...high payrolls
look at the cubs high payroll....its not just the al

THE NL is boring to watch. The AL is just better, hands down.

nymetsrule
06-28-2010, 09:21 PM
Compare the AL East to any division in the NL and it is not even close.

Compare the AL East to any other division in the AL and it is not even close. What is your point? :confused:

redwhitenblue
06-28-2010, 09:30 PM
i hope your not saying its all about money in the al east....boston and ny big spenders

look at philly and the mets...high payrolls
look at the cubs high payroll....its not just the al

THE NL is boring to watch. The AL is just better, hands down.
It's only boring to watch because your tiny mind can't appreciate strategy.

Testaverde16
06-28-2010, 09:39 PM
yeah... lets keep rewarding people that do nothing but sit their ***** on the bench for 90% of the game and are barely even athletes.... that is NOT real baseball

Baseball is supposed to be a cerebral game. Strategy and double switches and playing the odds which make the game great. The DH is one of the worst things to happen to baseball. It dumbed it down and made a unfair advantage go to half of the league all because people liked HRs and they wanted more of them

mulcahy26
06-28-2010, 09:42 PM
excuse me for wanting to watch a entertaining game rather than a boring game where there are pitchers hitting and sac bunts constantly. i watch the game to see good offense and good pitching. i think its stupid that a pitcher has to hit and even get pulled out of a game that he's pitching well, maybe even dominant, for a pinch hitter because his team couldnt muster any offense that night. i have no clue why anyone would like not having a DH. The NL fans moan and complain that its not fair that the AL has a DH when it comes time for the All-Star Game and The World Series and that the AL automatically has a advantage bc of the DH yet NL fans want nothing to do with the DH. NL needs to just adopt the DH and get with the times

mulcahy26
06-28-2010, 09:45 PM
yeah... lets keep rewarding people that do nothing but sit their ***** on the bench for 90% of the game and are barely even athletes.... that is NOT real baseball

Baseball is supposed to be a cerebral game. Strategy and double switches and playing the odds which make the game great. The DH is one of the worst things to happen to baseball. It dumbed it down and made a unfair advantage go to half of the league all because people liked HRs and they wanted more of them

You cant say DH's are barely even athletes. Most of them, if not all of them had to play a position at one point or another before DH. You think Matsui was a DH his whole life? No. They are athletes and have all played the field before in their careers. I'd rather pay a DH millions of dollars that plays everyday than a pitcher who plays once every 5 days.

stupidmop
06-28-2010, 09:47 PM
Jesus christ, you guys make ridiculous arguments. Having one guy who can't hit well does not make an exciting game boring or a boring game exciting.

If you like the DH, great. Watch AL games. If you don't, watch NL games. If you can't run in a straight line without hurting yourself, like certain pitchers on the Red Sox, then make sure you sign with an AL team.

Done. /thread.

mulcahy26
06-28-2010, 09:47 PM
i mean with that logic lets just not have closers because they "sit on their ***** 90% of the game"

metsfaninSTL
06-28-2010, 09:51 PM
the DH is stupid. pitchers should hit. hitting is part of the game

warfelg
06-28-2010, 09:54 PM
I think the issue for the whole DH problem isn't that the pitchers have to bat. At some point in their life they had to bat. The issue with the DH come in interleague play when you are taking a guy that doesn't normally bat and telling him to bat and run the bases. In the NL where the pitchers bat every start they actually get a slight break going to the AL park.

But I am conflicted because without the DH in AL and non-DH in NL makes the sides different and special. Without that we might as well just shift to an east west alignment for the playoff brackets.

Oldmantrash
06-28-2010, 10:38 PM
I like it the way it is.

I don't want a DH in the NL,but I don't mind watching the differences of an AL game.

Lets just leave it alone.

Swashcuff
06-28-2010, 10:45 PM
the DH is stupid. pitchers should hit. hitting is part of the game

:clap:

and so is playing defense.

Swashcuff
06-28-2010, 10:46 PM
dat Yankees suck guy is getting murdered.....:guns:

Swashcuff
06-28-2010, 10:47 PM
**** that. Get rid of the DH.

DH's are for women and members of the Kansas City Royals.

this

papipapsmanny
06-28-2010, 11:04 PM
what is even funnier is how the Sox pitching staff was probably more productive hitting than maybe all the NL teams during interleague play

TheBomb255
06-28-2010, 11:06 PM
The DH is a joke. Pitchers should hit, and it makes the game much more interesting to watch.

Crucis
06-28-2010, 11:17 PM
Correct rules change so they should get rid of the DH.

Deal with it.

So I suppose that you think that spit balls should be made legal again, or that ground rule doubles that bounce over the wall in fair ground should count as homers again, since those were the rules at one point.

Deal with it. The DH is here to stay. Baseball tried to create the DH as early as the 1920's or so. maybe earlier. The majority of casual baseball fans want to see offense. I personally have no interest in NL style baseball. I have no interest in the so-called strategy. I'm not interested in watching managers manage. I want to see players play... and GOOD hitters hit.

The biggest reason that NL teams oppose the DH is not philosophical ... it's financial. They don't want to have to pay for 1 more high-priced full time player.

And face facts... as a previous poster already pointed out, there are only 2 leagues that still play without the DH ... the NL and one of the 2 Japanese professional leagues. It's time to join the 21st century and add the DH to the NL and play modern baseball.

Crucis
06-28-2010, 11:20 PM
The DH is a joke. Pitchers should hit, and it makes the game much more interesting to watch.

No, it's much more interesting to watch a REAL hitter hitting, than some pathetic joke of a "hitter" pretending that he can hit.

TheBomb255
06-28-2010, 11:23 PM
No, it's much more interesting to watch a REAL hitter hitting, than some pathetic joke of a "hitter" pretending that he can hit.

Managers actually have to do something when they manage NL games. When your an AL manager, all you do is set the lineup, and then just manage the bullpen. When your managing a NL game, you need to know when you pinch hit for the pitcher, when to call for a sac bunt etc.

It takes much more execution, and stratgey.

AL games are boring to watch, I would much rather watch a well-managed game, then just setting the lineups and having one guy bat 3-4 times in a game, and that's basically it.

infernoscurse
06-28-2010, 11:37 PM
the kicker should also be quarterback, who in their mind pays someone just to kick!

sf-fanatic
06-28-2010, 11:49 PM
posted in wrong thread

Hopkins
06-29-2010, 04:25 PM
the kicker should also be quarterback, who in their mind pays someone just to kick!

Im not really sure what that is suppose to mean. Football is a sport where you have an offense and a defense, so players typically only play one side of the ball. Baseball the idea is to play both sides of the ball. Bad comparison.

To me thats what makes the DH seem so unnatural, your adding a whole new position to the game, has that ever happened in major sports (modern times) where a sport just completely adds a whole new position? it turned it from 9 on 9 to 10 on 10. To me thats why it just doesn't seem right, if Basketball were too add a whole new position and make it 6 on 6 it wouldnt seem right would it? baseball is 9 on 9, thats how the game was meant to be played with 9 guys in the field, and when its the offense turn to hit those 9 guys make a 9 man lineup, I think that for me is what bothers me the most, your adding a completely new position. I just keep thinking of basketball, having a defensively challenged player only play when your team is on offense, and then when the team transitions to defense he runs to the bench and a guy comes out to just play defense, may not be a great comparison, but it wouldn't seem right, just like it doesn't seem right to have a DH.

Hugbees
06-29-2010, 04:51 PM
As a Red Sox fan, I loved that Lesters bomb would have been a GS in Fenway, Dice-K getting an RBI, And Lackey getting two hits then PHing the next night.

Clay has been used as a pinch runner before, he should have streched properly like a real athlete, (I didnt see the play so I don't know if he was hurt sliding or just wasnt streched out)....as for Wang destroying his career, for Gods sake, five year old girls can run the bases without ripping a tendon, man the F up Wang.

Yea ok dude, that makes a ton of sense. How the hell is it possible to "man up" a freak injury like that. If you've ever played baseball(or any type of physical movement (which I doubt, since you sound incredibly ignorant on this)), there is a certain way you have to go about landing on a base. Pitchers most especially, in the AL, do not practice this much, therefore do not have the reps or experience. Most of these AL pitchers barely get at bats so how many chances will they ever have running? When it's actual game speed and a run is crucial, they may forget all about technque due to their lack of experience. All they care about is getting that run for their W.
Either remove interleague play during the season or allow a designated runner instead of the DH. Of course that doesn't solve base hits..but it's better than nothing. Pitchers are much too valuable, especially with the trend of ridiculous contracts being thrown.

Hopkins
06-29-2010, 05:47 PM
Yea ok dude, that makes a ton of sense. How the hell is it possible to "man up" a freak injury like that. If you've ever played baseball(or any type of physical movement (which I doubt, since you sound incredibly ignorant on this)), there is a certain way you have to go about landing on a base. Pitchers most especially, in the AL, do not practice this much, therefore do not have the reps or experience. Most of these AL pitchers barely get at bats so how many chances will they ever have running? When it's actual game speed and a run is crucial, they may forget all about technque due to their lack of experience. All they care about is getting that run for their W.
Either remove interleague play during the season or allow a designated runner instead of the DH. Of course that doesn't solve base hits..but it's better than nothing. Pitchers are much too valuable, especially with the trend of ridiculous contracts being thrown.

So he is incapable of physical movement cause of his so called ignorance?

Look, its still 90 feet and these guys ARE suppose to be professional athletes, your gonna tell me these guys who are suppose to be world class athletes shouldn't have to run a basepath? I can run a basepath man, yeah it involves some practice and technique to be a good baserunner, but not that much, at the end of the day we're still talking about running basses, and your talking about designated runners? are you kidding me?

Pitchers in the NL go in the batting cages and practice hitting too, and they also practice baserunning, you don't think these AL pitchers should be bothered to do the same? whats it take to spend a couple minutes after practice to hit a few in the batting cage or run some bases? I mean its not like its a surprise to them they have to play inter league ball, inter league play happens every single year, so these AL pitchers should be at least a little prepared for it, it is there full time job and they have a full off season to hone there skills.

Bottom line, pitchers in the AL are well aware of there schedules, they know they are gonna spend a few games every year playing NL ball, so why can't they prepare for it like every other professional athlete?

kmo429
06-29-2010, 06:20 PM
At this point, I would rather have a DH for the MEts offense, but it's just dumb, it makes no sense to have a player only hit and not have to field, it makes no sense for the pitcher not to hit in all honesty. By the way, it isn't the rules fault Bucholz got hurt running the bases, it's his fault.

ClayMatthews
06-29-2010, 11:47 PM
Well Yovani Gallardo doesnt seem to have a problem hitting the ball and hes a pitcher. Three homeruns this year! Yeah buddy.

brandonwarne52
06-29-2010, 11:54 PM
Yeah, that career .599 OPS is dazzling for Yovani.

Hugbees
06-30-2010, 12:17 AM
So he is incapable of physical movement cause of his so called ignorance?

Look, its still 90 feet and these guys ARE suppose to be professional athletes, your gonna tell me these guys who are suppose to be world class athletes shouldn't have to run a basepath? I can run a basepath man, yeah it involves some practice and technique to be a good baserunner, but not that much, at the end of the day we're still talking about running basses, and your talking about designated runners? are you kidding me?

Pitchers in the NL go in the batting cages and practice hitting too, and they also practice baserunning, you don't think these AL pitchers should be bothered to do the same? whats it take to spend a couple minutes after practice to hit a few in the batting cage or run some bases? I mean its not like its a surprise to them they have to play inter league ball, inter league play happens every single year, so these AL pitchers should be at least a little prepared for it, it is there full time job and they have a full off season to hone there skills.

Bottom line, pitchers in the AL are well aware of there schedules, they know they are gonna spend a few games every year playing NL ball, so why can't they prepare for it like every other professional athlete?

Did you actually read what I wrote? Seriously take time to actually understand the point of a post before retorting with something totally irrelevant to the quoted post. How can someone "suck up" the injury Wang suffered, how was that NOT ignorant?
You just answered your own question. Why would AL pitchers go all out to practice something, when they are going to be doing it for only 12-15 games of a 162 game season? My points beforehand also answer the rest of your questions. :facepalm:

The results speak for themselves AL pitchers are dropping like flies. And not one AL manager feels save during interleague play. Period.

redwhitenblue
06-30-2010, 01:02 AM
Yea ok dude, that makes a ton of sense. How the hell is it possible to "man up" a freak injury like that. If you've ever played baseball(or any type of physical movement (which I doubt, since you sound incredibly ignorant on this)), there is a certain way you have to go about landing on a base. Pitchers most especially, in the AL, do not practice this much, therefore do not have the reps or experience. Most of these AL pitchers barely get at bats so how many chances will they ever have running? When it's actual game speed and a run is crucial, they may forget all about technque due to their lack of experience. All they care about is getting that run for their W.
Either remove interleague play during the season or allow a designated runner instead of the DH. Of course that doesn't solve base hits..but it's better than nothing. Pitchers are much too valuable, especially with the trend of ridiculous contracts being thrown.
You realize none of these pitchers got hurt from running incorrectly over the base. They got hurt from running...just running...to second base.


That, to me, indicates an injury that was about to happen anyways. If a guy can't run 85 feet without coming up lame, I have little doubt he'd probably end up having a similar injury the next time he had to run to field or from landing and stretching those legs 100+ times a game pitching.


If the two pitchers hurt were from the Royals and Mariners, would this even be discussed?

Hopkins
06-30-2010, 01:06 AM
Yea ok dude, that makes a ton of sense. How the hell is it possible to "man up" a freak injury like that. If you've ever played baseball(or any type of physical movement (which I doubt, since you sound incredibly ignorant on this)), there is a certain way you have to go about landing on a base. Pitchers most especially, in the AL, do not practice this much, therefore do not have the reps or experience. Most of these AL pitchers barely get at bats so how many chances will they ever have running? When it's actual game speed and a run is crucial, they may forget all about technque due to their lack of experience. All they care about is getting that run for their W.
Either remove interleague play during the season or allow a designated runner instead of the DH. Of course that doesn't solve base hits..but it's better than nothing. Pitchers are much too valuable, especially with the trend of ridiculous contracts being thrown.

ummm no I read what you wrote just fine.

These guys are professional athletes, its there job, you don't think they can spare a small amount of time to practice running the basepaths? You say they don't practice this much, why don't they practice it more? you don't think they work on it a little bit in practice when they are coming up to interleague play? Wang's injury is one thing, but your making it out like baserunning is some impossible task to ask of a pitcher, its not that hard to learn to do, they get paid millions of dollars to play baseball but they can't be asked to learn how to properly run basepaths? I think you overestimate how hard baserunning can be, yeah you need to know how to do it properly, but it is pretty basic, I mean come on these guys have been playing baseball there whole lives, I just can't believe that they never even attempted to run the bases. So what if they only do it a handful of games a season, there professionals and true professionals should hone every aspect of there craft, especially if they know there gonna have to do it at some point, what would they do if they made it to the world series?

All I'm trying to say is, is it really that much to ask of a million dollar athlete to properly run a basepath? game speed or not, were talking about major league players running a basepath, its not too much to ask. I can see where people are coming from with the DH, but a designated runner? doesn't make sense to me man, but hey your entitled to your opinion (see how I did that without a condescending :facepalm:)

Joemoes
07-01-2010, 06:27 PM
They should get rid of the pitchers having to hit in the ML.

Recently, Red Sox pitcher Clay Buchholz injured himself running the basepaths. He was the best pitcher on Boston's staff so far this year.

There is no upside to having pitchers hit. Remember when Yankees' pitcher Ching Ming Wang hurt himself in Houston. He has not been close to the pitcher he was then, which was a good one. As a Sox fan, I would know. I hated facing him, because he was so good. But I'm not happy he got injured, because it is a bad thing to wish for.

Having a DH for both the AL and NL would be ideal.
Like, if the NL had a DH for this year, I guarantee Joe Torre would have re-signed Juan Pierre so Manny could DH. Pierre was not as good of a hitter as Manny, and they didnt want to waste him on the bench. But Pierre is much better defensively than Manny, and Pierre is a better hitter than almost every pitcher in the MLB. You think Torre wants Chad Billingsly hitting and Manny playing OF, making errors and getting more tired, which will produce in a worse hitting performance? No! He would MUCH rather have the speedy, golden glove defender in left, and having Manny's bat get more rest.

The DH is the way to go, no doubt. I cannot think of a single legitimate upside to having no DH, except that you have to pay someone just to hit, but that's a terrible excuse.

And just putting it out there, the DH using AL team has not lost the non-DH using NL team in the All Star Game for like, the past 12 seasons. They must be doing something right. Just saying.

It would take a few years to implement because teams have to increase payroll thats 16teams increasing payroll...and they need time there isn't going to be 16 dh's on the market for one year...

Best Positive is it extends careers of players hitting wise.

and Juan pierre was traded to the white sox and is not gold glove.

Me and Mr. T
07-01-2010, 06:39 PM
Recently, Red Sox pitcher Clay Buchholz injured himself running the basepaths. He was the best pitcher on Boston's staff so far this year.

Oh please! When Wang did the same thing for the Yanks a few years ago I didn't hear ONE Red Sox fan calling for this change. The shoe is now on the other foot and NOW you want the rule changed? Give me a break!

StickyGreenFan
07-01-2010, 06:43 PM
u know what, ur right. lets have someone stand next to homeplate and when the hitter hits the ball let that guy run for him! that would avoid the hitter risking injury from running too!! then we can have pinch fielders so they dont have to worry about injury playing stupid defense.



:rolleyes:

idrinkpepsi
07-01-2010, 06:44 PM
I dont like the DH rule I like the idea that everyone has to hit and everyone has to field like in the NL.

Me and Mr. T
07-01-2010, 06:47 PM
u know what, ur right. lets have someone stand next to homeplate and when the hitter hits the ball let that guy run for him! that would avoid the hitter risking injury from running too!! then we can have pinch fielders so they dont have to worry about injury playing stupid defense.



:rolleyes:

:clap: Exactly! I just find it funny that this thread was started because a Boston fan got his panties in a bunch about their pitcher getting hurt. Join the club! It happens! I wasn't crying for a rule change after Wang got hurt. Thems the breaks! Deal with it!

TxRangersP1
07-01-2010, 07:29 PM
im an AL fan i like the DH but i also like the change from inter league play like when Colby Lewis gets a bases-loaded hit to help the Rangers beat Brewers man one of the sweetest moments this season for me injuries are part of baseball so deal with it. GO RANGERS!!

fanofclendennon
07-01-2010, 10:35 PM
IMO yeah kinda. Who do you think would win more games if they "somehow" played against eachother.. the 1941 Yankees or the 2009 Yankees? I vote '09

I've got a better idea Bosoxlover. Instead of merely getting "rid of the rule for pitchers hitting," why not just get rid of the rule that says teams have to post lineups?

This way a team can bat the same 4 or 5 hitters it wants in any order throughout the game. To make things even easier for the offense, they should also be allowed to use as many pinch runners as they want. Batters substituted for a pinch runner don't have to come out of the game.

Think about it: If I had the 2008 Yankees playing by these rules versus the 27 or 41 Yankees playing by their rules, I bet the 08 Yankees would win.

Because hey, if you really want your baseball to be nice and easy without any hard decisions, why not do it right?

BaustinSali08
07-01-2010, 10:51 PM
It would be interesting to see the players perspective of this. I imagine most of the pitchers wouldn't want to hit, and their teammates likewise. I say leave it up to the players and GM/Owners.

fanofclendennon
07-01-2010, 10:56 PM
The players love the DH since it means higher priced jobs. AL GMs love it, NL GMs hate it. Pendulum keeps swinging. At one point there was tak the NL would have it. Now it seems they're leaning the other way to get rid of it in the AL. The owner's would have to give up some serious concessions before the players' association signed off on it though.

What began as a quirky experiment in 1973 has now taken on a life of its own.

darkfire423
07-01-2010, 10:58 PM
It is part of the history of the game that pitchers bat.


Yankee fans think of this Babe Ruth was signed and used as a pitcher until Yankees realized that they need his bat every day. They wouldnt have saw that if there was a DH.

To all american league fans who say we need to get rid of this. I am sorry your pitchers cant run. maybe they should play shuffle board or checkers. Or maybe they should stretch properly before they run.

Moosie Doom
07-02-2010, 12:08 AM
I know it's a slippery slope argument, but if you're going to have a DH, why stop there? Why not have two? In addition to your pitcher, you can have somebody hit for your second baseman and then he's free to focus on his defense. Plus he'll never be injured running the bases. Heck, why not have a DH for every defensive player. We can make it like football: You'll have an offensive squad and a defensive squad.

Maybe you can even put in a Designated Defender to play defense for your pitcher. Your pitcher will throw the ball and the DD will stand right next to him and field ground balls.

I guess that's why I think the DH is dumb. You're turning baseball into football.

Mudvayne91
07-02-2010, 12:22 AM
To all american league fans who say we need to get rid of this. I am sorry your pitchers cant run. maybe they should play shuffle board or checkers. Or maybe they should stretch properly before they run.

Agreed. This whole thread was started because an AL pitcher got hurt running the bases.... How often do you hear about NL pitchers going on the DL or are hurt because they were running the bases? Not very often at all. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but ANY BASEBALL PLAYER can get hurt running the bases. I forget who it was, but someone got hurt strolling around the bases after hitting a HR. Point is, if NL pitchers can manage to do it day after day, I think the AL pitchers could manage to do it as well.

vigilantex69
07-02-2010, 02:27 PM
No one really likes to watch pitchers hit, but things probably aren't going to change. I think it's an easy way out of an inning too many times to pitch around guys to pitch to such an inferior quality. It makes the game much less exciting and competitive.

I disagree. I think it makes it a much more complex game, especially for a manager. Just like the Braves and Nats game last week. They were put in the position with runners on and a 0-0 game with Strasburg up to hit, but if they pinch hit they have to bring in a new pitcher next inning and there bullpen has been terrible. But also, they know that the way that Tim Hudson was pitching that one run may mean the game for them. I also don't like the fact you can have these big lazy over the hill players that all they are on the team for is to swing a bat. They should HAVE to play a position in the field. And I am an American League fan but I HATE the DH. It's almost like the force out rule was in football, GET RID OF IT

theslick1
07-02-2010, 04:30 PM
I disagree. I think it makes it a much more complex game, especially for a manager. Just like the Braves and Nats game last week. They were put in the position with runners on and a 0-0 game with Strasburg up to hit, but if they pinch hit they have to bring in a new pitcher next inning and there bullpen has been terrible. But also, they know that the way that Tim Hudson was pitching that one run may mean the game for them. I also don't like the fact you can have these big lazy over the hill players that all they are on the team for is to swing a bat. They should HAVE to play a position in the field. And I am an American League fan but I HATE the DH. It's almost like the force out rule was in football, GET RID OF IT

Jim Leyland would disagree:


"I think managing in the American League is much more difficult for (having the DH). In the National League, my situation is dictated for me. If I'm behind in the game, I've got to pinch-hit. I've got to take my pitcher out. In the American League, you have to zero in. You have to know exactly when to take pitchers out of there. In the National League, that is done for you."

theslick1
07-02-2010, 04:32 PM
I know it's a slippery slope argument, but if you're going to have a DH, why stop there? Why not have two? In addition to your pitcher, you can have somebody hit for your second baseman and then he's free to focus on his defense. Plus he'll never be injured running the bases. Heck, why not have a DH for every defensive player. We can make it like football: You'll have an offensive squad and a defensive squad.

Maybe you can even put in a Designated Defender to play defense for your pitcher. Your pitcher will throw the ball and the DD will stand right next to him and field ground balls.

I guess that's why I think the DH is dumb. You're turning baseball into football.

None of those "slippery slope" things have ever happened and the DH has been around for 4 decades now.

theslick1
07-02-2010, 04:35 PM
The players love the DH since it means higher priced jobs. AL GMs love it, NL GMs hate it. Pendulum keeps swinging. At one point there was tak the NL would have it. Now it seems they're leaning the other way to get rid of it in the AL. The owner's would have to give up some serious concessions before the players' association signed off on it though.

What began as a quirky experiment in 1973 has now taken on a life of its own.

I've never read anything about the AL abandoning the DH. Where did you get this from?

CUBDOM4life
07-02-2010, 09:58 PM
IMO the DH is horseshit.

The thing is, the MLB really ****ed themselves by making both leagues different. The AL can't just decide 1 day, "hey, were getting rid of the DH rule tommarrow." And likewise for the NL adding the DH. There would have to be prolly at least a 5 year notice before a rule change could take effect.

bagwell368
07-02-2010, 10:45 PM
Agreed. This whole thread was started because an AL pitcher got hurt running the bases.... How often do you hear about NL pitchers going on the DL or are hurt because they were running the bases? Not very often at all. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but ANY BASEBALL PLAYER can get hurt running the bases. I forget who it was, but someone got hurt strolling around the bases after hitting a HR. Point is, if NL pitchers can manage to do it day after day, I think the AL pitchers could manage to do it as well.

Why should AL pitchers take BP or run bases as a normal part of what they do? They are too busy preparing to face superior hitters in the AL. I'm surprised NL pitchers even practice pitching since outside of about 20 hitters, the rest of the NL batsman are so pathetic.

Face it. The DL is here to stay, the Players Union will never let it go, so give up, and learn what a capable offensive can look like - sort of when you play the better AL teams.

bagwell368
07-02-2010, 10:46 PM
IMO the DH is horseshit.

The thing is, the MLB really ****ed themselves by making both leagues different. The AL can't just decide 1 day, "hey, were getting rid of the DH rule tommarrow." And likewise for the NL adding the DH. There would have to be prolly at least a 5 year notice before a rule change could take effect.

The AL didn't just decide to do it. And did any of you notice that there are no separate league offices any more? Interleague play? The differences are shrinking to nothing but one rule.

Did you also notice the amount of leagues other then the AL that use it? College? High School? Travel and AAU youth baseball?

With all the changes supporting hitters since 1968 (lower/regulated mound height, smaller stadiums, the DH, thin handled bats, postage stamp strike zones, weight lifting, understanding and coaching of hitting mechanics, the loss of the brushback pitch) ....

What do pitchers have? Split finger, cutter, advancement of pitching mechanics, 5 man rotations, relief staffs.

Clearly the batters advantages outstrip those of the pitcher. So, you want to tell me how much fielding, running, and batting practice NL pitchers get compared to everyday players in season? Careful. The answer despite your "homey" view of things is not bloody much. In the AL its less - because there are more and better hitters to face. Almost no hitter in the AL is an auto out for a pitcher to relax against like in the NL. Pitching sequences are much more complex in the AL then the NL as well. Don't believe me? Check the sequences within every game against the top 4 hitters on every team NL vs. AL - boy will you be in for a surprise. You see, as a pitching coach I find much more charm in great game calling and execution than a double switch involving the pitchers slot along with elemental 1955 style pitch calling (1 finger for a FB, 2 for a breaking ball, location is catcher's glove).

vict1019
07-02-2010, 11:27 PM
Learn to run and stop crying for ****s sake.

sf-fanatic
07-03-2010, 12:41 AM
Jim Leyland would disagree:

Jim Leyland is an idiot. You don't only pinch hit when you are behind. You also pinch hit when your team is ahead when your pitcher is tired or near his pitch count limit. How does that statement he said even makes sense? It's clear that in the NL the manager has a lot more responsibility. You have to utilize your bench a lot more. In the AL, in most games, you don't even have to sub or make decisions on bench players. You can send the same 10 players out there and just manage the bullpen. He talks like you don't have to decide when to take out the pitcher in the NL and you only take him out and pinch hit for him when he is up to bat after the sixth inning. :facepalm:

bagwell368
07-03-2010, 05:51 AM
Jim Leyland is an idiot. You don't only pinch hit when you are behind. You also pinch hit when your team is ahead when your pitcher is tired or near his pitch count limit. How does that statement he said even makes sense? It's clear that in the NL the manager has a lot more responsibility. You have to utilize your bench a lot more. In the AL, in most games, you don't even have to sub or make decisions on bench players. You can send the same 10 players out there and just manage the bullpen. He talks like you don't have to decide when to take out the pitcher in the NL and you only take him out and pinch hit for him when he is up to bat after the sixth inning. :facepalm:

Let's see - the famed double switch - great - watch it done twice, do it yourself 3 times - mastered.

Oh yeah, hmmm.... close game, pinch hit for the pitcher or not - let's see, several inputs and factors to consider - bang! Done.

NL benches are deeper? Not in batting they are not, and few NL line-ups even have a decent bottom third of the line-up. The DH helped AL Managers and GM's realize that hitting at every position outweighs defense - even at SS and C. The NL has far more can't hit/good glove players then the AL. Does that translate to more wins head to head - no. The NL tends to have over time more fast guys leading off, and the AL has the higher OBP leadoff guys - guess which are more successful.

I grew up with no DH - 7 years I was a fan before the DH. The vaunted strategy you guys bleat about is vastly overrated. Give me Frank Thomas, Paul Molitor, David Ortiz, and Edgar and their deeds over the Dean Chances and Randy Johnson's of the world.

dashripdot
07-03-2010, 07:13 AM
Why should AL pitchers take BP or run bases as a normal part of what they do? They are too busy preparing to face superior hitters in the AL. I'm surprised NL pitchers even practice pitching since outside of about 20 hitters, the rest of the NL batsman are so pathetic.

Face it. The DL is here to stay, the Players Union will never let it go, so give up, and learn what a capable offensive can look like - sort of when you play the better AL teams.

I love that one. Pitchers don't prepare for anything, other than stretching and figuring out which tattoo they're going to get next. The manager calls every pitch for the catcher and the catcher calls every pitch for the pitcher, who pretends to shake off the sign he gets. Then the catcher goes through the signs again until the pitcher understands which pitch the manager wants him to throw. It's like that wizard of baseball knowledge, Wade Boggs, once said: "Pitchers are the dumbest afletes on the field." (Yes, he said afletes).

Get them off of their lazy, play-once-every-five-days backsides, and get them into baseball shape so they can play the game they're being paid to play. You make it sound like they have been pitchers since little league and never learned how to play any other position, bat or run the bases.

bagwell368
07-03-2010, 08:17 AM
Get them off of their lazy, play-once-every-five-days backsides, and get them into baseball shape so they can play the game they're being paid to play. You make it sound like they have been pitchers since little league and never learned how to play any other position, bat or run the bases.

You then are quite unaware of how baseball is played these days at lower levels. My elder son - Captain of the Varsity, just graduated HS. Of the 5 pitchers they used only 2 hit, and only one of them was a DH - and one wasn't.

My 13 year old is one of 3 main pitchers for his AAU team, and only he plays in the field of the 3.

See edited post #207 for more.

bagwell368
07-03-2010, 08:34 AM
Yet another reason the AL is more successful is abandonment of the idiotic double sacrifice to get a man to 3B with 2 outs.

The SABR strategy of high OBP, and play for extra bases or another BB is superior because it doesn't give up outs - and gets SP's out of the game earlier - and leads to more concessions being bought as well (har). Obviously in some circumstances you need to do it, but, not at the knee jerk rate its done in the NL.

However since they do bat the pitcher they are jack of all trades, but master at none - unable to step towards the superior strategy because they have one foot stuck in the ditch.

fanofclendennon
07-03-2010, 08:46 AM
I've never read anything about the AL abandoning the DH. Where did you get this from?

It's just been in general discussions over the past 5 years or so, no link to offer or even a source. Don't mistake my comment to insinuate that this is even close to happening sometime this century.

For starters, the AL and NL are no longer separate entitees. When they merged a few years ago, one of the discussions was to have both leagues play by the same rules. That would mean abolishing the DH. As you're well aware, there are no steps being taken to get rid of the DH.

It was just chatter, idle at that.

DanielC
07-03-2010, 09:03 AM
I think that the AL should require their pitchers to hit. IT is part of the game. the DH seems unfair. I don't have respect for players like Ortiz who don't even play the field. It's pathetic.

All the pitcher has to do is go up there and bunt if a man is on, and if not try his best to just make contact.

bagwell368
07-03-2010, 10:10 AM
I think that the AL should require their pitchers to hit. IT is part of the game. the DH seems unfair. I don't have respect for players like Ortiz who don't even play the field. It's pathetic.

All the pitcher has to do is go up there and bunt if a man is on, and if not try his best to just make contact.

Unfair? Since when is baseball "fair"? The rule has been around for decades, and has as I wrote earlier has penetrated many other leagues since.

Respect? Ortiz was an OK 1B eight years ago, why play him there if the rules don't require it - when there are better options? Respect? Please.

magichatnumber9
07-03-2010, 10:20 AM
I love that one. Pitchers don't prepare for anything, other than stretching and figuring out which tattoo they're going to get next. The manager calls every pitch for the catcher and the catcher calls every pitch for the pitcher, who pretends to shake off the sign he gets. Then the catcher goes through the signs again until the pitcher understands which pitch the manager wants him to throw. It's like that wizard of baseball knowledge, Wade Boggs, once said: "Pitchers are the dumbest afletes on the field." (Yes, he said afletes).

Get them off of their lazy, play-once-every-five-days backsides, and get them into baseball shape so they can play the game they're being paid to play. You make it sound like they have been pitchers since little league and never learned how to play any other position, bat or run the bases.Hey I have a better idea then spatting whatever that was, I read two sentences, and decided to you should of saved yourself time and did this.:surrender: debate is not everybodies strong suit.

chisoxfan99
07-03-2010, 12:32 PM
I enjoy watching a DH bat rather than a pitcher, but the biggest problem I have with pitchers batting is that it gives the opposing pitcher an easy out. I would rather watch a pitcher throw his best stuff for all 9 batters than throw his best stuff to 8 and ease up for the ninth. I would rather see guys like Vlad or Big Papi hitting than I would a guy like Ted Lilly.

C-ross12
07-03-2010, 12:42 PM
9 fielders, 9 hitters... coincidence?

GLASSMAN
07-03-2010, 12:48 PM
The DH is the epitome of impurity

Actually that title belongs to Paris Hilton but the DH is a very close second.

dashripdot
07-03-2010, 12:50 PM
Hey I have a better idea then spatting whatever that was, I read two sentences, and decided to you should of saved yourself time and did this.:surrender: debate is not everybodies strong suit.

Neither is grammar or composition.

Human FlameShld
07-03-2010, 12:53 PM
I enjoy watching a DH bat rather than a pitcher, but the biggest problem I have with pitchers batting is that it gives the opposing pitcher an easy out. I would rather watch a pitcher throw his best stuff for all 9 batters than throw his best stuff to 8 and ease up for the ninth. I would rather see guys like Vlad or Big Papi hitting than I would a guy like Ted Lilly.



Yeah because Joe Blanton didn't hit a homerun in the World Series against the Rays. Padilla never hit 2 homeruns and almost a third in a game a few years ago. Randy Wolf never had a pinch hit RBI in extra innings.

The Braves pitchers in the 90's where pretty good hitters, better than some everyday players. There are many other examples out there, I forget who is was but I saw a game earlier this year where a team had the pitcher batting 8th because they didn't trust the fielder batting 9th.

Pitchers are athletes and if they care about winning or have any pride in their game they should want to hit, and a sacrifice could lead to rally's and could be the difference between winning and losing a game.

dashripdot
07-03-2010, 12:55 PM
You then are quite unaware of how baseball is played these days at lower levels. My elder son - Captain of the Varsity, just graduated HS. Of the 5 pitchers they used only 2 hit, and only one of them was a DH - and one wasn't.

My 13 year old is one of 3 main pitchers for his AAU team, and only he plays in the field of the 3.

See edited post #207 for more.

And how many fielders get converted to pitchers and vice versa during the course of their developmental careers? Many. The DH just isn't baseball. Much like the hockey and soccer shootouts and the soon-to-be-laughed-at NFL tie-breaker formats. If you want to play homerun derby, do so. If you want to play baseball, play baseball.

smoothasvanilla
07-03-2010, 01:38 PM
I like that the two leagues have different rules. It's the last thing that makes the World Series or Interleague play fundamentally different than other games.

If any were to change though, it would make more sense to change the DH rule in the AL. Would you want to see 9 good defenders on the field, and a different 9 guys hitting? It's the same logic extended.