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bsi
06-26-2010, 03:52 PM
According to Brooksie...
NYP_Brooksie

Uh oh. Sather on contract talks with Group II Marc Staal: "Wouldn't say there's a wide gulf, would say there's a chasm." Agent is Bobby Orr.

jetsfan89
06-26-2010, 03:56 PM
it's a contract negotiation. lets not make this more than what it is.

SLY WILLIAMS
06-26-2010, 03:56 PM
Not surprising. We have heard similar hard bally type comments in the past during negotiations for our own players. Staal will be resigned. I'm not worried. :)

Redfish
06-26-2010, 05:29 PM
Well, I'll put this out there, as much to get some talk going, if nothing else. But it seems rather atypical Sather would not only speak to the press about Staal's contract re-negotiation status, but to call it a "chasm." i.e., worlds apart. Could it be a precursor to getting us prepared for a transaction that would involve Spezza, and possibly negotiating rights with Volchenkov?

Not likely in my view, but I do think Sather commenting on this is a bit odd. And these players are both likely to be playing with other clubs next year, not to mention a large bonus payment to Spezza coming due soon if he is not traded.

bsi
06-26-2010, 06:29 PM
Trade negotiations happen between the two parties, the only time it comes to the media is when there's a big problem IMO.

SLY WILLIAMS
06-26-2010, 06:38 PM
I remember Slats using the media during negotiations with his own teams players going all the way back to the 1980's. He did it with Duby last off season as well.

liltedspop
06-26-2010, 07:07 PM
I'm sorry Staal is not a 3 mill. player not in this life & not in this league sorry guy's but if he is sitting on 3+ mill. per, let him sit on it back on the farm.

Rangers in 7
06-26-2010, 07:12 PM
trade him....hes not good!

Redfish
06-26-2010, 07:29 PM
So, if there is an impasse, the end resolution is through arbitration?

mmmrevolver93
06-26-2010, 07:56 PM
I'm sorry Staal is not a 3 mill. player not in this life & not in this league sorry guy's but if he is sitting on 3+ mill. per, let him sit on it back on the farm.

I actually felt that he was worth around 3.5 million.

jetsfan89
06-26-2010, 07:57 PM
I'm sorry Staal is not a 3 mill. player not in this life & not in this league sorry guy's but if he is sitting on 3+ mill. per, let him sit on it back on the farm.

dude you're the only one on this planet who thinks he isn't worth 3 mil per.

he's worth 4 mil per.

Rangers in 7
06-26-2010, 07:57 PM
dude you're the only one on this planet who thinks he isn't worth 3 mil per.

he's worth 4 mil per.

actually i agree

liltedspop
06-26-2010, 09:00 PM
dude you're the only one on this planet who thinks he isn't worth 3 mil per.

he's worth 4 mil per.

dude thats 1 of the most absurd comments I've ever seen posted on here. I have more faith with MDZ on the ice than I do Staal, he's an accident waiting to happen & he was not even effective against Ovechkin this season. He made 866,000 this past season & through arbitration he might get 1.5 or 1.7 but 4 mill. he'll never be that kind of player. a 4 million dollar defensman better put up big time offensive number's in this day in age & Staal is not that type of player. Chris Pronger is a 5mill per player & Staal is not anywhere near that class of player so please before you make a statement like that be able to back it up, because it's a totally ludicrous statement.

jetsfan89
06-26-2010, 09:07 PM
dude thats 1 of the most absurd comments I've ever seen posted on here. I have more faith with MDZ on the ice than I do Staal, he's an accident waiting to happen & he was not even effective against Ovechkin this season. He made 866,000 this past season & through arbitration he might get 1.5 or 1.7 but 4 mill. he'll never be that kind of player. a 4 million dollar defensman better put up big time offensive number's in this day in age & Staal is not that type of player. Chris Pronger is a 5mill per player & Staal is not anywhere near that class of player so please before you make a statement like that be able to back it up, because it's a totally ludicrous statement.

marc staal had a +/- of 11
MDZ had a +/- of -20

Staal had 27 points last year, nearly doubling his points total from the previous season, so he's clearly improving on the offensive end.

bsi
06-26-2010, 09:54 PM
He's worth 3, I was figuring 4. If you don't think so, watch how many offers come for him if they can't sign him, his name and Dubinsky's name always come up in trades, most teams in the league want these guys.

mmmrevolver93
06-26-2010, 10:00 PM
He's worth 3, I was figuring 4. If you don't think so, watch how many offers come for him if they can't sign him, his name and Dubinsky's name always come up in trades, most teams in the league want these guys.


Ok well until now i really didnt want anything to do with trading staal. but from what you just said, can we get a number 1 center for dubinsky, staal and maybe a prospect. and when i say number 1 center i dont mean marc savard.

RangersLi33
06-26-2010, 10:17 PM
The issue with Stall might not be money but how many years. For example, if Stall and Orr (his agent right?) feel he is progressive where four years from now he might be a 50 points defensive-man, and because of that his value will increase. Four years from now Stall will be in his prime; so Stall does not want to sign a contract for 4 or more years. Given the way the rangers salary cap is, Sather might want to give him a 5 years at about 18 million dollars. Four years or five years from now the salary cap could be 65 or 68 million; so if Stall was to sign a 5 year 18 million contract his contract would be really cheap.
Stall and his agent could also be telling Sather "who else are you going to get, you have no money to spend on another defensive-man". IMO Stall might be looking for a contract for 3 years for maybe 12+ million.

jetsfan89
06-26-2010, 10:31 PM
The issue with Stall might not be money but how many years. For example, if Stall and Orr (his agent right?) feel he is progressive where four years from now he might be a 50 points defensive-man, and because of that his value will increase. Four years from now Stall will be in his prime; so Stall does not want to sign a contract for 4 or more years. Given the way the rangers salary cap is, Sather might want to give him a 5 years at about 18 million dollars. Four years or five years from now the salary cap could be 65 or 68 million; so if Stall was to sign a 5 year 18 million contract his contract would be really cheap.
Stall and his agent could also be telling Sather "who else are you going to get, you have no money to spend on another defensive-man". IMO Stall might be looking for a contract for 3 years for maybe 12+ million.

rangers have 15 mil in cap with 15 on their roster. they need 21 or 22 guys on their roster. prust, shelley, and a backup would take 3 million and theyd have 12 million remaining for 3 or 4 guys. they could certainly get another defensive defenseman (such as Michalek from phoenix) if they wanted to.

but i obviously want to resign staal though.

liltedspop
06-26-2010, 11:07 PM
The issue with Stall might not be money but how many years. For example, if Stall and Orr (his agent right?) feel he is progressive where four years from now he might be a 50 points defensive-man, and because of that his value will increase. Four years from now Stall will be in his prime; so Stall does not want to sign a contract for 4 or more years. Given the way the rangers salary cap is, Sather might want to give him a 5 years at about 18 million dollars. Four years or five years from now the salary cap could be 65 or 68 million; so if Stall was to sign a 5 year 18 million contract his contract would be really cheap.
Stall and his agent could also be telling Sather "who else are you going to get, you have no money to spend on another defensive-man". IMO Stall might be looking for a contract for 3 years for maybe 12+ million.

1st of all he spells his name Staal & your talking about paying a player under the premise of "might in 4 yrs. be a 50 point scorer. I can see the guy getting say 2 mill. but anything more than that is ludicrous. the guy put up 27 points last season 27 points at times looks completely lost on the ice, gets victimized with regularity by opposing forwards, he had 8 goals this past season & yet I can recall 4 pucks off the top of my head that he deflected into his own net this past season due to his ineptitude to clear the front of the net & total lack of toughness imo. This guy has this rep for shutting down Ovechkin which he's never really done if you look at it sensibly, he played to a -3 since jf89 wants to point out +/- in the 7 game series against the Caps oh yea Ovechkin btw played to a +5 in that series. Marc Staal is not a shut down elite defenseman in the league, he is a 2 pair 3 or 4th defenseman on a good team.

Redfish
06-26-2010, 11:21 PM
1st of all he spells his name Staal & your talking about paying a player under the premise of "might in 4 yrs. be a 50 point scorer. I can see the guy getting say 2 mill. but anything more than that is ludicrous. the guy put up 27 points last season 27 points at times looks completely lost on the ice, gets victimized with regularity by opposing forwards, he had 8 goals this past season & yet I can recall 4 pucks off the top of my head that he deflected into his own net this past season due to his ineptitude to clear the front of the net & total lack of toughness imo. This guy has this rep for shutting down Ovechkin which he's never really done if you look at it sensibly, he played to a -3 since jf89 wants to point out +/- in the 7 game series against the Caps oh yea Ovechkin btw played to a +5 in that series. Marc Staal is not a shut down elite defenseman in the league, he is a 2 pair 3 or 4th defenseman on a good team.

Girardi will get about $2.5mm; Staal should be a bit north of $3mm. I think you are sharply under-valuing him. We'll see.

SLY WILLIAMS
06-26-2010, 11:54 PM
Good thing I'm not the GM. Bobby Orr is one of my heroes in sports. I would be like whatever you say Bobby. 5 mill? Sure no problem. :)

Bobby was such a class act. I wish he was a Ranger. :)

Redfish
06-27-2010, 09:33 AM
Can someone clear this up for me? As I understand it, Staal is not eligible for arbitration. Doesn't this mean the Rangers have virtually all negotiating leverage? What is the process from here if an agreement becomes difficult?

Thanks.

bsi
06-27-2010, 10:30 AM
3 million doesn't get you much of a hockey player anymore with the way salaries are going. If we let him walk out on us we've effectively given up on one of our most promising talents. He's young and if anyone thinks this is as good as he's gonna get they're crazy. His biggest problem is that Wade Redden was taken here to help these young guys out with their Offensive and Defensive skills, he's been the worst kind of example for a young guy trying to learn how to play at the NHL level. Maybe it's time to bring Paul Mara back, he's a UFA this year, as long as he wasn't looking for an insane amount of money. He may not be the best D-man in the league, but he's all heart and leadership, something our Defense missed this year. I doubt Montreal is going to resign him, he made 1.6 last year, maybe we get him for 1.5 or less? I don't know, I don't really want to take a spot away from a McDonagh or a Valentenko, but maybe we demote Redden and somehow trade Rosival and sign a cheap vet to get things going here.

dashripdot
06-27-2010, 11:41 AM
If he and the Rangers wind up stalemated, the Rangers could trade him but he's gonna ask for the same money from another team, anyway -- unless he's taking this stance to get away from Tortorella, and would sign for less if traded to another team.

Isca92
06-27-2010, 03:00 PM
I think hes worth around 3 but not much higher than that. I think Staal is solid but and would like to keep him, however he's not a top defender in the league. As he develops, so will others so he isnt likely to rise up the depth chart (in the league) with others coming also. Yes, he still has value and thats one of the reason's teams ask for him. If they need a defenseman he's the best we have.

liltedspop
06-27-2010, 03:21 PM
Listen I can give you 10 guys all drafted around the same tome & that are around the same age as Marc Staal & each of them are far better players than Staal. If he want 4 mill. per then I say trade him & get a #1 center back & let some other team pay him.

mmmrevolver93
06-27-2010, 03:24 PM
Listen I can give you 10 guys all drafted around the same tome & that are around the same age as Marc Staal & each of them are far better players than Staal. If he want 4 mill. per then I say trade him & get a #1 center back & let some other team pay him.


lets hear those 10 guys

jetsfan89
06-27-2010, 03:40 PM
regardless of what you think ltp, sather said that staal and girardi are both part of the core so there's absolutely no way they're gone.

NYR80
06-27-2010, 06:48 PM
I'm sorry Staal is not a 3 mill. player not in this life & not in this league sorry guy's but if he is sitting on 3+ mill. per, let him sit on it back on the farm.

I agree. As much as i like Staal he's def not worth 4 mil a year in my book. He's more like a 2.5mil a year guy.

liltedspop
06-27-2010, 06:53 PM
lets hear those 10 guys

Keith, Seabrook, Weber, Green, Jack Johnson, Doughty, Eric Johnson, Tyler Myers, Bogosian, Schenn, that is 10 & theres not 1 player in the bunch any of you would not take over Marc Staal.

jetsfan89
06-27-2010, 06:57 PM
Keith, Seabrook, Weber, Green, Jack Johnson, Doughty, Eric Johnson, Tyler Myers, Robidas that 10 & theres not 1 player in the bunch any of you would not take over Marc Staal.

i agree with you on keith, seabrook, weber, and maybe doughty. thats it.

NYR_NYJ
06-27-2010, 07:05 PM
IMO they both want too much.

liltedspop
06-27-2010, 07:08 PM
Tyler Myers is the best defensman I've seen drafted in years dude are you being serious, Eric Johnson is a stud he's a shut down defensman he had 39 points this past season & played every night against the other teams top line. Zach Bogosian maybe but I would still take him over Staal.

liltedspop
06-27-2010, 07:09 PM
hell yes if were talking 7 mill per for staal & girardi combined sionora to both of htem

liltedspop
06-27-2010, 08:24 PM
All of us constantly talk about all these bad contracts we have, we give Staal 3.5 to 4mill & Girardi 3 mill. per that 2 more bad contracts to add to the pile. I'm sorry this insanity has got to end somewhere Marc Staal is not an elite dman in this league, it's just that hes hyped so much by the MSG broadcasting crew that all these people actually believe this crap that they spew from their mouths. As far as Girardi goes he made 1.6 mill. this season & I would say thats a fair number for him I could see 2 mill. per but anything more than that is totally insane. I would say Staal 8 to 10 mill on a 4 yr. deal is a very fair number for him & Girardi 8 mill over 4 is about where they belong anything more than that & it becomes fiscally irresponsible I'm sorry for all you Staal lovers but thats the truth.

bsi
06-27-2010, 10:20 PM
All of us constantly talk about all these bad contracts we have, we give Staal 3.5 to 4mill & Girardi 3 mill. per that 2 more bad contracts to add to the pile. I'm sorry this insanity has got to end somewhere Marc Staal is not an elite dman in this league, it's just that hes hyped so much by the MSG broadcasting crew that all these people actually believe this crap that they spew from their mouths. As far as Girardi goes he made 1.6 mill. this season & I would say thats a fair number for him I could see 2 mill. per but anything more than that is totally insane. I would say Staal 8 to 10 mill on a 4 yr. deal is a very fair number for him & Girardi 8 mill over 4 is about where they belong anything more than that & it becomes fiscally irresponsible I'm sorry for all you Staal lovers but thats the truth.

If Marc Staal was an elite defenseman in this league he'd be looking for 6-7 million, 3.5 million doesn't get you an elite defenseman unless they become elite in the middle of their contract. For this reason I'd be ok with his figure if it was long term where at some point we might be getting a deal on him.
Here's a list of some "elite" defensemen and their salaries.

Nick Lidstrom -6.2
Brian Rafalski - 6.0
Chris Pronger-5 million(note it's stretched until 2017 when he will be 42 so it's probably more like 7 million)
Kimmo Timonen- 6.33
Zdeno Chara-7.5
Jay Boumeister 6.68
Dion Phaneuf 6.5
So for me, 3.5 isn't really too far of a stretch for Staal if it's stretched over a few years so that maybe down the road we'll be paying a 5 million dollar d man 3.5.

liltedspop
06-28-2010, 09:05 AM
If Marc Staal was an elite defenseman in this league he'd be looking for 6-7 million, 3.5 million doesn't get you an elite defenseman unless they become elite in the middle of their contract. For this reason I'd be ok with his figure if it was long term where at some point we might be getting a deal on him.
Here's a list of some "elite" defensemen and their salaries.

Nick Lidstrom -6.2
Brian Rafalski - 6.0
Chris Pronger-5 million(note it's stretched until 2017 when he will be 42 so it's probably more like 7 million)
Kimmo Timonen- 6.33
Zdeno Chara-7.5
Jay Boumeister 6.68
Dion Phaneuf 6.5
So for me, 3.5 isn't really too far of a stretch for Staal if it's stretched over a few years so that maybe down the road we'll be paying a 5 million dollar d man 3.5.

Marc Staal is not anywhere near the class of any of those player or the 10 I mentioned, I'm sorry we have a team that cant score goals & we are going to tie up 7 million in cap space between 2 marginal 2nd. pair at best defensmen, that makes no sense whatsoever. Like I said Girardi is no more than a 2million dollar per player & Staal is just about right at the same number. I understand the current salary base for a top player is in the 6 to 7 mill. range, but neither of the 2 players we are talking about are either elite or anywhere close to being elite. I'm sorry at 4 million per season I would kiss Marc Staal good bye & pick up a true elite center icemen.

bsi
06-28-2010, 10:28 AM
You said we are a team that can't score, yes on stats that does look like the problem, however the real problem is that we don't have 6 good defencemen and our forwards have to play a defensive style to cover up for that. I really don't see how losing your two steadiest defensemen would help this. If you look at the start of the year last year, we started out as the best scoring team in the league, but then we played a few games where our defensive abilities (You can thank Redden and Rosival, and the inexperience of Gilroy and DelZotto for that) were exploited and teams started to put the pressure on. Torts had to adjust from an attacking team to a defensive team. You can say what you want but Staal was our best defensive d man last year, and Girardi was second. DelZotto was a nice surprise how he played offensively, but his defense was terrible. All the pressure was put on Staal to play against the leagues top players. Still he was 2nd in plus minus with a +11 on a team that didn't make the playoffs behind only Marian Gaborik, he doubled his points from the previous year and was second in defense scoring behind DelZotto who was a - 20!! How is it that you think Staal isn't any good?

Bleeds MSG
06-28-2010, 11:16 AM
Personally I think Staal was by far our best D man and was expecting him to sign in the 3- 3.5 million range. I honestly think that is a fair contract and that hes earned it. However, according to Larry Brooks he has already been offered 14 million over 4 years by the Rangers and Orr wants "substantially" more than that. That is BS. If he wont take 14 over 4 years then trade his ***, we could surely get a #1 pick for him due to his talent and age and god knows after this draft we need more than one first rounder to get anything right.

mmmrevolver93
06-28-2010, 11:45 AM
Personally I think Staal was by far our best D man and was expecting him to sign in the 3- 3.5 million range. I honestly think that is a fair contract and that hes earned it. However, according to Larry Brooks he has already been offered 14 million over 4 years by the Rangers and Orr wants "substantially" more than that. That is BS. If he wont take 14 over 4 years then trade his ***, we could surely get a #1 pick for him due to his talent and age and god knows after this draft we need more than one first rounder to get anything right.


I agree, i wanted Staal back but 4 years 14 million is more fair for both sides. If truly is gonna command more than that i would trade him, but i would use him to get a top line center. This insure that redden or rozsival is gone bc we would have to make room to sign another defenseman. I prefer not to lose staal, but i dont think theres much of a choice with what Orr is demanding for him.

Also i read that the rangers could be interested in signing Frolov.. would any of you be interested in signing him if it were for the right price?

liltedspop
06-28-2010, 01:10 PM
I want nothing to do with Frolov he's Zherdev except he has less heart. Sorry guys but Staal at anything more than 4 yrs. 10 million I'll even go 12 million becomes just another bad contract. Look at how we all complain about these bad deals we're saddled with I know we'll all be doing the same thing when we sign this kid for 14 mill. He does not produce points & is not a shut down defensman regardless of what anyone thinks the facts are that he is a 2nd pair guy & not worth 4 mill per.

dashripdot
06-28-2010, 02:02 PM
Again, what somebody asks for in negotiation is not what they expect to agree to in the end. But if Sather expects to pay something in the middle, why not cut the crap and get there sooner rather than later? Why posture and engender ill-will with a guy you want to keep on your team for several years to come?

This is a guy (Sather) willing to **** money away on Wade Redden -- whose play under his current contract is equivalent to an NHL octegenarian -- but he doesn't want to pay half that amount to Staal?

bsi
06-28-2010, 03:20 PM
I don't know how a guy gets a +11 on this hockey team without being decent last year. Having said that, I don't think he should get 5 million or anything, I think 3.5 is fair, and 4 is fine if it's for 4 years or more. I won't be complaining about him signing this deal as it is fair in my mind as each year he gets better. Gomez, Drury, Redden were all mentally insane contracts, there's a big difference. These guys were already as good as they're gonna get and he still overpaid them by 3 million each. Any other team in the league would give Staal 4 million.

liltedspop
06-28-2010, 03:37 PM
I don't know how a guy gets a +11 on this hockey team without being decent last year. Having said that, I don't think he should get 5 million or anything, I think 3.5 is fair, and 4 is fine if it's for 4 years or more. I won't be complaining about him signing this deal as it is fair in my mind as each year he gets better. Gomez, Drury, Redden were all mentally insane contracts, there's a big difference. These guys were already as good as they're gonna get and he still overpaid them by 3 million each. Any other team in the league would give Staal 4 million.

Thats good let some other team give him the 4mill. per contract I'm sick of this crap the guy is an accident waiting to happen on the ice & +/- is the most over rated stat in the game. He could be +25 & we all know that in critical times he disappears like he did on the gwg by Boston like he does when ever the puck goes into the corners & like he does when ever the a player in front of Lundvist & he has to clear the net. Why dont we just sign the guy to a 10 year 70 million now & get it over with.

bsi
06-28-2010, 03:44 PM
Thats good let some other team give him the 4mill. per contract I'm sick of this crap the guy is an accident waiting to happen on the ice & +/- is the most over rated stat in the game. He could be +25 & we all know that in critical times he disappears like he did on the gwg by Boston like he does when ever the puck goes into the corners & like he does when ever the a player in front of Lundvist & he has to clear the net. Why dont we just sign the guy to a 10 year 70 million now & get it over with.

Two reasons (A) we don't have the cap space
(B) that would be just as crazy as letting him go.

QUBobcats550
06-28-2010, 04:08 PM
Hey guys I've been a frequent reader of the psd forums for about 2 years now and I have finally signed up to add my two cents about things, so hello to everyone. In my opinion we cannot afford to lose Staal. He is by far our best all around defenseman and has tremendous upside. I agree with liltedspop that his offensive numbers aren't fantastic, but he is still maturing and getting better. He's still only 23 years old so lets not get carried away and think this is as good as he is going to get. I have no problem giving him 3.5 mil per over 4 years. I think that would be a reasonable and fair deal.

jetsfan89
06-28-2010, 04:38 PM
Hey guys I've been a frequent reader of the psd forums for about 2 years now and I have finally signed up to add my two cents about things, so hello to everyone. In my opinion we cannot afford to lose Staal. He is by far our best all around defenseman and has tremendous upside. I agree with liltedspop that his offensive numbers aren't fantastic, but he is still maturing and getting better. He's still only 23 years old so lets not get carried away and think this is as good as he is going to get. I have no problem giving him 3.5 mil per over 4 years. I think that would be a reasonable and fair deal.

thank you.

although now that i think about it, sather is doing the right thing, staal has no leverage here and should wait for his time to get paid like dubi. i really would love to lock him up though.

Dernelle
06-28-2010, 06:42 PM
The fact that Staal is rejecting a 3.5mil/year is ridiculous. Staal is not that good, and that deal fits him very well. The Rangers should trade him for something of value, if possible Jeff Carter straight up. If Seabrook is making 3.5mil a year Staal should consider himself lucky that he was even offered a contract that high. Seabrook is twice the player Staal is.

NYR_NYJ
06-28-2010, 06:48 PM
We all get to give our opinions wether we lke it or not, we can live with out the stupid comments.

mmmrevolver93
06-28-2010, 07:06 PM
http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklund/Heating-up-source3-trades-close-Major-trade-could-go-down-tonight/1/29079


With a little hope the rangers are one of the 5 teams... toronto, boston and Ottawa are probably involved too.

liltedspop
06-28-2010, 07:35 PM
You really need to calm down liltedspop. First of all as always you have your opinion which is usually disagreed with by 80% of the posters which I am sure you are used to so I am not sure why you are infuriated with that post. Secondly If you give a good defensemen who have people praising him around the league, along with this poster, it is not worth trying to lowball him. I understand where you come from with having the other d-contracts in mind but He is our best defensemen and I honestly don't think you can argue with unless your in the mood :silly:. Lastly I am curious as to why you think 2.5 million a year is ok but 3 million is ridiculous.

im not infuriated by anything on here, but i'll be damned if some little kid is going to call my knowledge of the sport in to question, hell I could be the kids father & most likely I am hahahaha. I dont find 3mill out of the ? but I do find 3.5 or 4 totally out of bounds. If he wants 3.5 mill. then he's is going to imo give up at least 3 years of ufa status in this deal & sign him to a long term deal either a 6 or 7 yr. deal to where we'll pay him now but he has got to be a team player & do what is right. If he is willing to give up lets say 3 yrs. of ufa status in this deal ok give him 3.5 mill. a 4mill. cap hit is going to kill us for a guy who has not earned it. Listen when Redden signed that deal we were not the only team in on him at the time Dallas & Philly were hot on him too & we just turned out to be the lucky team. Redden all in all did not have a horrible year last year & if he was making 3 mill. per no one would even be talking about him today.

bsi
06-28-2010, 08:23 PM
im not infuriated by anything on here, but i'll be damned if some little kid is going to call my knowledge of the sport in to question, hell I could be the kids father & most likely I am hahahaha. I dont find 3mill out of the ? but I do find 3.5 or 4 totally out of bounds. If he wants 3.5 mill. then he's is going to imo give up at least 3 years of ufa status in this deal & sign him to a long term deal either a 6 or 7 yr. deal to where we'll pay him now but he has got to be a team player & do what is right. If he is willing to give up lets say 3 yrs. of ufa status in this deal ok give him 3.5 mill. a 4mill. cap hit is going to kill us for a guy who has not earned it. Listen when Redden signed that deal we were not the only team in on him at the time Dallas & Philly were hot on him too & we just turned out to be the lucky team. Redden all in all did not have a horrible year last year & if he was making 3 mill. per no one would even be talking about him today.

Ok, you've officially lost me....Redden is worth 3 million but Staal isn't worth 3.5??? :facepalm:

rocowear21
06-28-2010, 09:36 PM
Staal absolutly deserves 3.5 million a year. But no more. He has been our #1 D man on this team for I believe 3 years now. He plays against the top line night in and night out. Shuts down Ovechkin, Crosby, Malkin. He may not be a number 1 on another team but for ours he is. He is 23 years old with little offensive upside which is completly fine by me. We saw what happened to him at the beginning of the year when he tried adding to the O, he looked lost. he is out Defensive number 1. A line with him and MDZ is our future top line pair. Get this guy signed now. He deserves it. He Sather thought Rosi was worth 5 million a year and redden was worth almost 7 a year then Staal is def worth 3.5 a year. You cant be serious in to not giving him that.

Redfish
06-28-2010, 10:01 PM
Staal absolutly deserves 3.5 million a year. But no more. He has been our #1 D man on this team for I believe 3 years now. He plays against the top line night in and night out. Shuts down Ovechkin, Crosby, Malkin. He may not be a number 1 on another team but for ours he is. He is 23 years old with little offensive upside which is completly fine by me. We saw what happened to him at the beginning of the year when he tried adding to the O, he looked lost. he is out Defensive number 1. A line with him and MDZ is our future top line pair. Get this guy signed now. He deserves it. He Sather thought Rosi was worth 5 million a year and redden was worth almost 7 a year then Staal is def worth 3.5 a year. You cant be serious in to not giving him that.

All good points. I would say his offense has more than a little upside; rather than be rushed into an offensive role as he was at the beginning of last season, he simply needs to be brought along gradually. We all saw toward the latter third of the season he was clearly more comfortable in carrying the puck more frequently and engaging on offense; let's not forget he was instructed to focus soley on his defensive game his initial few years in the NHL, and that was fine. His offense will get better, it just won't happen overnight.

The point though is he likely deserves $3.5mm per season, yet, there is a player-approved process for the younger players to earn more compensation, and that is spelled-out within the Collective Bargaining agreement. And under this process, the Rangers are right to use their leverage and try to sign him for less, maybe even as little as $2.5mm per season. And in a few years he'll be able to light it up with a new contract if his performance dictates. However, because he is the Rangers #1 defenseman and a primary component to the "young core" we often hear about, it makes sense for the Rangers to be more flexibile and maybe give him more $$ for a longer term, or something along those lines.

Bobby Orr has apparently indicated to Sather they are prepared to let this go as long as possible and Sather has publicly stated Staal can sit the entire season if he doesn't like the facts of the CBA. Those are the two extreme points by both parties; it is most probably going to be settled similar to the process with Dubinsky. We'll see, but from a pure value standpoint (i.e., putting aside the CBA, arbitration rights or not, etc..) a large majortiy of teams would be interested in him at $3.0mm per season, so I disagree with those who say his performance and skills don't justify this.

rocowear21
06-29-2010, 02:16 AM
Fully agree. Any team out there would turn around and give staal a huge deal for 3 million a year. Most teams would give up a superstar to acquire him so he is that good.

liltedspop
06-29-2010, 08:09 AM
Fully agree. Any team out there would turn around and give staal a huge deal for 3 million a year. Most teams would give up a superstar to acquire him so he is that good.

i want to see the team & the superstar you think another team would trade for Marc Staal.

mmmrevolver93
06-29-2010, 09:49 AM
i want to see the team & the superstar you think another team would trade for Marc Staal.


Guy whats your problem with staal? 3.5 million is a good price. Just bc Sather screwed up and overpayed Redden and Rozsival doesnt mean staal doesnt deserve 3.5... He was the most consistent dman night in and night out. Towards the end of the season his offense picked up, he is still developing his offensive skill but his defense his pretty good. He played against everyone's top line. Usually teams have their best pair out there againt the best forward line. Staal had Del Zotto.. not your ideal linemate when trying to shut down another line. Sooo I think Staal did just fine last year. And before when you said we wouldnt be complaining if Redden made 3 million a year.. you think Redden is worth 3 million but Staal isnt worth 3.5?

Redfish
06-29-2010, 10:24 AM
http://content.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/nhl/salaries/playersbyposition.aspx?pos=4

this site lists 2009-2010 salaries for NHL defenseman. if you peruse down to the range of $2.75-$4.0mm, you'll find a large number of players that most would agree that Staal easily competes with. this list is not the bible, per se, but it gives decent perspective on how GMs value defenseman.

we'll never know the team and player that would be traded for Staal, because Staal will not be traded.

I do agree that Staal would have to grow most aspects of his game in order to be considered an elite defenseman, because he is not. however, i think he ranks solidly within the grouping below top tier. At 23 years old, I think many teams would love to have him on their team at $3.5mm with the option he could develop into something more significant. But that's just my opinion.

liltedspop
06-29-2010, 10:44 AM
Listen I have no problem with Marc Staal like I said he wants 3.5 mill. per ok sign him to a 6 or 7 yr. deal so he gives back 3 year of ufa status. The guy is not an elite defenseman in the game sorry to break all you guys who appear to be infatuated with him hearts but the guy is not as good as you are all touting him to be thats my problem. Brooks reported that he turned down 3.5 per offer from the Rangers & that he & Orr want substantially more money so that being said you guys truly feel that he's a 5 mill. per player. I mean where doe sit stop should we just give him 6 mill now & get it over with. For once I want to see the Rangers stay the course & be fiscally responsible as an organization. Giving Marc Staal who produced a grand total of 52 career points & in his last playoff appearance was a complete & utter fool on skates anything more than 3 mill. per over 3 years is insane. I would give him 3.5 maybe even go to 3.75 per but let it be a long term deal where he gives back 3 yrs. of ufa status. Because in 3 years when he still is producing 30 to 35 points per he's going to ask for 5 to 6 mill per.

ElementCo27
06-29-2010, 11:49 AM
Staal was actually a great offensive defenseman in Sudbury. Redfish is correct when he says that he's been working on his defense more. He's young and he's going to get better. He deserves the $3.5mil.

Bleeds MSG
06-29-2010, 12:17 PM
Listen I have no problem with Marc Staal like I said he wants 3.5 mill. per ok sign him to a 6 or 7 yr. deal so he gives back 3 year of ufa status. The guy is not an elite defenseman in the game sorry to break all you guys who appear to be infatuated with him hearts but the guy is not as good as you are all touting him to be thats my problem. Brooks reported that he turned down 3.5 per offer from the Rangers & that he & Orr want substantially more money so that being said you guys truly feel that he's a 5 mill. per player. I mean where doe sit stop should we just give him 6 mill now & get it over with. For once I want to see the Rangers stay the course & be fiscally responsible as an organization. Giving Marc Staal who produced a grand total of 52 career points & in his last playoff appearance was a complete & utter fool on skates anything more than 3 mill. per over 3 years is insane. I would give him 3.5 maybe even go to 3.75 per but let it be a long term deal where he gives back 3 yrs. of ufa status. Because in 3 years when he still is producing 30 to 35 points per he's going to ask for 5 to 6 mill per.

I agree maybe we go to 3.75 and then extend the deal beyond 4 years. I dont think anyone here would complain about having staal signed through his 29yr old season at 3.75 per. Then he can get overpaid or traded when he gets ready to cash in on his next UFA chance.

letsgorangers27
07-01-2010, 11:02 PM
this should be priority #1 now. i say give him the deal zbnyek got of 4 per year