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View Full Version : How bad was Minny's draft?



wannabGM
06-25-2010, 03:32 PM
They ended up with zero big upside players.
They drafted a textbook small forward in Wes Johnson, traded for another swingman in Martell Webster who will probably start at 2 guard for them but is probably best suited for small forward, and then traded again for another small forward in Lazar Hayward.

It's like the team was desperate to not draft anyone who could remotely possibly play power forward. Some GM's are just so sad as they obviously try to save their own jobs. Those moves will make them a better team on both ends. But that franchise needs to just start over, not draft for need.

They could have drafted Cousins, Babbitt, and Booker, and just not cared about need so they could get a high pick again next season. I don't think anyone is going to trade anything of value for Jefferson. And While Love is a decent player, a Babbitt/Booker/Cousins combination at that position is probably better.....it's definitely better if Cousins gets back to his playing weight from Kentucky. They drafted and traded like they were scared of their own shadows, and desperate to make the team 10 games better this season.

Wes Johnson is a good player, and might have more upside than I think. But that doesn't explain the other two moves they made. They made moves more for the now than for the future.
__________________

Lou Holtz Lisp
06-25-2010, 03:34 PM
Wes Johnson has no upside? Have you ever seen him play? Obviously not.

AI4MVP
06-25-2010, 03:39 PM
not that bad at all. stop being a hater. they wanted to get a stock up on wing players becuz they have three bigs on the roster and another one coming from europe. i hate when people judge teams when they dont know the situation

Mplsman
06-25-2010, 03:40 PM
Wow you sure seem to care alot for being a sixers fan.

mia305king
06-25-2010, 03:41 PM
Wolves always get a lot of hate on PSD when it's draft time.

central2003
06-25-2010, 03:42 PM
I don't know about that .. Wes Johnson looks like he could become a all-star in 2-3 years but after the 4th pick I thought they def were going for a big man and some good prospects to fill in certain positions. They had that many draft picks that in 2-3 years time they could have had at least 3-4 rising all-stars on their team just from this draft alone. But Kahn decided to draft what ever his heart desired (kind of like a kid in a toy store , they don't need the toy but just wanted because it looks nice to him) thats what I see in kahn.. he has no clue to what he is doing and at this rate I do not think he will remain GM very long.

DaveDevries
06-25-2010, 03:44 PM
Not bad at all. I still think Johnson will be considered better than Turner when its all said and done. Cousins didnt fit here. If you think this is the final roster than youre in for a rude awakening. If you wanna say we overpaid for Webster than I agree. I thought the 16th pick plus Gomes was a little much, but Gomes needed to be gone by July 1st and Martell has untapped potential. babbit will be a role player tops. Not to mention we got highly regarded Bjelica. I think we did a fine job to be honest

Mplsman
06-25-2010, 03:44 PM
not that bad at all. stop being a hater. they wanted to get a stock up on wing players becuz they have three bigs on the roster and another one coming from europe. i hate when people judge teams when they dont know the situation

Not to mention this poster got bailed out by David sterns rigged draft. Go talk about how your going to make your team better instead of worrying about ours. I don't think turner alone will turn that around for ya.

Hawkeye15
06-25-2010, 03:46 PM
I just did a summarization of the draft for Minny fans. It will explain my thoughts.

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=499529

jim51990
06-25-2010, 03:46 PM
johnson was a good pick for them while i think cousins is the most talented player in this draft there is no room for him on this team. the other picks and trades where terrible. i feel bad for wolves fans because with the picks this team has had over the last few years they deserve better

wannabGM
06-25-2010, 03:47 PM
Johnson is a safe pick and an impressive athlete who can also shoot some. But not many people see him creating much offense for himself or his teammates. He looks more like a forward when he puts the ball on the floor, than someone who has future elite swingman stamped on him.

If Cousins loses the weight, I think he has more upside than Johnson.

Minnesota already has two young big men on their team who are more known for their offense than their defense. They were afraid to draft another big with similar strengths and weaknesses....even though Cousins is easily the most talented player of the 3.

But let's say for argument's sake that I am wrong about Johnson. Is Webster that much better than Gomes, that you throw Babbitt into the deal? And is Lazar Hayward more talented than Booker?

Hawkeye15
06-25-2010, 03:47 PM
so many on PSD still do not understand value. Some of these picks are set for future movement. Gomes being traded was an absolute necessity.
I am amazed at how much hate the Wolves create come draft time haha.

OG "Dee" LOCc
06-25-2010, 03:47 PM
not as bad as the knicks

PHX2daDEATH
06-25-2010, 03:49 PM
Bill Simmons explained Wesley Johnson as a 4th year Junior who averaged 16 points ppg, and said he'll never make an All-Star team.. Never seen the guy play but I would of taken Cousins no matter what, especially if you are trying to trade Big Al. Goes back to last year again, Kahn passes up Curry for Flynn, Hell he could of traded down and picked Earl Clark , Austin Daye, or Casspi and then still had Rubio...then they go out and sign Sessions who should of started over Flynn. The Gomes for Webster trade is kinda iffy.. When Webster started for Portland in a stretch of games last year he was fire, a legit 17-20ppg starter, he'll get minutes in Minny

NY Till I Die
06-25-2010, 03:51 PM
They ended up with zero big upside players.
They drafted a textbook small forward in Wes Johnson, traded for another swingman in Martell Webster who will probably start at 2 guard for them but is probably best suited for small forward, and then traded again for another small forward in Lazar Hayward.

It's like the team was desperate to not draft anyone who could remotely possibly play power forward. Some GM's are just so sad as they obviously try to save their own jobs. Those moves will make them a better team on both ends. But that franchise needs to just start over, not draft for need.

They could have drafted Cousins, Babbitt, and Booker, and just not cared about need so they could get a high pick again next season. I don't think anyone is going to trade anything of value for Jefferson. And While Love is a decent player, a Babbitt/Booker/Cousins combination at that position is probably better.....it's definitely better if Cousins gets back to his playing weight from Kentucky. They drafted and traded like they were scared of their own shadows, and desperate to make the team 10 games better this season.

Wes Johnson is a good player, and might have more upside than I think. But that doesn't explain the other two moves they made. They made moves more for the now than for the future.
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I guess you forgot about Kevin "Double Double" Love. And I also can tell that you never saw Wes Johnson play. Minnesota needed wing players that are good and they got off to a good start with this draft. Give it some time. You'll be a Wes Johnson fan before long.

DaveDevries
06-25-2010, 03:52 PM
Bill Simmons explained Wesley Johnson as a 4th year Junior who averaged 16 points ppg, and said he'll never make an All-Star team.. Never seen the guy play but I would of taken Cousins no matter what, especially if you are trying to trade Big Al. Goes back to last year again, Kahn passes up Curry for Flynn, Hell he could of traded down and picked Earl Clark , Austin Daye, or Casspi and then still had Rubio...then they go out and sign Sessions who should of started over Flynn. The Gomes for Webster trade is kinda iffy.. When Webster started for Portland in a stretch of games last year he was fire, a legit 17-20ppg starter, he'll get minutes in Minny

Bill Simmons is also a complete tool who has let it be known that he hated the Wolves. If you want to have your opinion go ahead, but I wont declare Johnson a bust just because Bill Simmons thinks so. Also Curry was highly scrutinezed going into the draft. Kahn would have got **** no matter who he took. Flynn hasn't even played in a comfortable offense yet. Drafts need more than a year to evaluate man

central2003
06-25-2010, 03:53 PM
I just think they need a new GM and they will be fine.. they have some talent and some pieces to def move around in the market .. they just need someone who knows what they are doing to make that team a contender again.

BoognishMN
06-25-2010, 03:55 PM
I'd be glad to bet all my Derick Coleman rookie cards that Cousins is a disapointment.

DaveDevries
06-25-2010, 03:56 PM
I just think they need a new GM and they will be fine.. they have some talent and some pieces to def move around in the market .. they just need someone who knows what they are doing to make that team a contender again.

Whats wrong with Kahn. Hes done nothing wrong yet he gets mocked and ridiculed. Its absolutely ridiculous. Seriously, what moves has he made that have been THAT bad. He turned Foye and Miller into Ricky Rubio for crying out loud. You also must not have paid attention to how the team was run when McHale was in charge huh? Good lord some of you are funny

wannabGM
06-25-2010, 03:56 PM
I guess you forgot about Kevin "Double Double" Love. And I also can tell that you never saw Wes Johnson play. Minnesota needed wing players that are good and they got off to a good start with this draft. Give it some time. You'll be a Wes Johnson fan before long.

Again, the word "need" pops up in a post in defense of the TWolves' picks.
As messed up as this roster is, drafting for need or fit is not the answer to a quick turnaround or a true rebuild.

The moves made only work out for the franchise if Jefferson can utilize the playing time to rebuild his trade value. Jefferson and Love are an ugly 4/5 combo from a defensive standpoint.

DaveDevries
06-25-2010, 03:59 PM
Again, the word "need" pops up in a post in defense of the TWolves' picks.
As messed up as this roster is, drafting for need or fit is not the answer to a quick turnaround or a true rebuild.

How ironic thats what Kahn did last season and he still got ripped. Sorry but just because you dont like Johnson doesnt mean squat. Actual NBA analysts (i know they dont mean much but it says something) think Johnsons will be a fine player and some even say star and ROY. Can he please play on the court before we label him a bust?

central2003
06-25-2010, 04:00 PM
OOH don't get me started on McHale .. that guy screwed you guys by giving KG to the celtics basically for free.. Kahn is a honest man thats one thing I like about him but he does tend to get overly excited .. we will see how he did this years draft at the end of the season because I really think Wes Johnson will become a all-star in couple years .. but I don't know about his other picks. and Oh ya he def messed up last year in the draft ..

Hawkeye15
06-25-2010, 04:01 PM
here are your last number of #16 picks
James Johnson
M. Speights
Nick Young
Rodney Carney
Joey Graham
Kirk Snyder
Troy Bell
Jiri Welch
Kirk Haston

so, the #16 pick is typically a player who sneaks into that spot by either showing up big in the NCAA's, or measuring and testing great. They usually become at best role players.
Now, to the financial side. if the Wolves hadn't traded Gomes by June 30, he hits their cap for $1+ for the next 3 years, if he is cut. If not, then he was $4 million a year. By sending him to Portland, with Babbit's salary, that eats away to the level where Minny will pay the sharpshooting Webster $7 million total over the next 3 years.
Gomes has sucked for two years. He was one of the worst 3 regulars the Wolves played last year.

Johnson's game should translate into the pro's very well. In college, they pack the lane in. Why do you think Evan Turner had so many turnovers in college, yet is considered a great handler/penetrator? Johnson is a freak athlete who runs like a deer, can hit the pull up, and will thrive in transition and off rotation passes. He is a rebounder and defender, and will be just fine in the wide open, spaced, isolation driven NBA, where motion offense isn't sending cutters and their defenders in your penetration path every few seconds.

As far as Hayward, his projection is Posey, and funny enough, Gomes type player.

The Wolves were most likely attempting to be active trade wise. But with impending free agency, most teams are holding onto their attractive players for dear life, attempting to get into sign and trades, etc. Last night's draft was just the beginning for many teams around the NBA.

I am not going to defend Kahn for last night. But we have great scouts, and this offseason has just begun, not just finished. I would guess one or more players taken last night will never wear a Wolves jersey.

Not sure where the constant whining comes from regarding the Wolves draft. My guess is, it comes from being unfamiliar with the facts....

DaveDevries
06-25-2010, 04:03 PM
OOH don't get me started on McHale .. that guy screwed you guys by giving KG to the celtics basically for free.. Kahn is a honest man thats one thing I like about him but he does tend to get overly excited .. we will see how he did this years draft at the end of the season because I really think Wes Johnson will become a all-star in couple years .. but I don't know about his other picks. and Oh ya he def messed up last year in the draft ..

I dont even hate the KG trade. he needed to go and we got Al and some pieces back. yeah he should have pushed for a package with Rondo and Al but whatever. The package wasnt terrible consideering circumstances. And no he didnt mess up last year in the draft. Nothing has happened that makes that a fact. Rubio will be here next year, and Flynn will be a fine PG. Theres a reason Indiana wanted him for their 10th pick. Some of you want instant success but sorry thats a rarity in sports especially the nba

D1JM
06-25-2010, 04:04 PM
minny is the pats of the nba

Lakersho
06-25-2010, 04:13 PM
:):)
not as bad as the knicks

Rivera
06-25-2010, 04:14 PM
this is just what minnesotas new draft regime just does

they draft for only one position and hope one turns into a superstar

last yr draft 3 point guards (rubio flynn and lawson)

this yr draft 2 Small fowards and trade for another (johnson, heyward, and trade for webster)

next years draft they will go after 3 shooting guards or 3 centers so they will get their man eventually

magichatnumber9
06-25-2010, 04:14 PM
Minni has nothing but idiots running that team. Its a shame the fans deserve better

wannabGM
06-25-2010, 04:17 PM
here are your last number of #16 picks
James Johnson
M. Speights
Nick Young
Rodney Carney
Joey Graham
Kirk Snyder
Troy Bell
Jiri Welch
Kirk Haston

so, the #16 pick is typically a player who sneaks into that spot by either showing up big in the NCAA's, or measuring and testing great. They usually become at best role players.
Now, to the financial side. if the Wolves hadn't traded Gomes by June 30, he hits their cap for $1+ for the next 3 years, if he is cut. If not, then he was $4 million a year. Lets say they just cut him. With Babbit's salary, that eats away to the level where Minny will pay the sharpshooting Webster $7 million total over the next 3 years.
Gomes has sucked for two years. He was one of the worst 3 regulars the Wolves played last year.

Johnson's game should translate into the pro's very well. In college, they pack the lane in. Why do you think Evan Turner had so many turnovers in college, yet is considered a great handler/penetrator? Johnson is a freak athlete who runs like a deer, can hit the pull up, and will thrive in transition and off rotation passes. He is a rebounder and defender, and will be just fine in the wide open, spaced, isolation driven NBA, where motion offense isn't sending cutters and their defenders in your penetration path every few seconds.

As far as Hayward, his projection is Posey, and funny enough, Gomes type player.

The Wolves were most likely attempting to be active trade wise. But with impending free agency, most teams are holding onto their attractive players for dear life, attempting to get into sign and trades, etc. Last night's draft was just the beginning for many teams around the NBA.

I am not going to defend Kahn for last night. But we have great scouts, and this offseason has just begun, not just finished. I would guess one or more players taken last night will never wear a Wolves jersey.

Not sure where the constant whining comes from regarding the Wolves draft. My guess is, it comes from being unfamiliar with the facts....

Most, maybe all of what you said about Johnson is dead on accurate. But you basically described a strong role player scoring 15ppg. How is that any better than trading down for extra picks and drafting Xavier Henry? The question you have to ask, can Johnson create his own offense in the half court? If not, then you drafted a player with the max ceiling of a 3rd best player on a contending team. For your sake, I hope I'm wrong.

While I am probably correct that Cousins has more upside than Johnson. I admit he also has more downside too with his weight and red flag issues. But the 4th, 16th, and 23rd in what is a pretty deep draft, and come away with 3 small forwards and likely no franchise changers? If Cousins doesn't lose the weight, or if Babbitt turns out to be just a workout warrior and Booker is just too damn short to at least play as a part time PF off the bench, then the safe moves that Minnesota made are probably for the best. Like I said, they are definitely a better team than before the draft. I'm just unimpressed.

Lakersho
06-25-2010, 04:22 PM
I dont even hate the KG trade. he needed to go and we got Al and some pieces back. yeah he should have pushed for a package with Rondo and Al but whatever. The package wasnt terrible consideering circumstances. And no he didnt mess up last year in the draft. Nothing has happened that makes that a fact. Rubio will be here next year, and Flynn will be a fine PG. Theres a reason Indiana wanted him for their 10th pick. Some of you want instant success but sorry thats a rarity in sports especially the nba

...In a year or so "if and when rubio shows " you guys could be alright , a tweek here, legit big there, your bigs are both good not sayin that,they'd be monsters at pf with a 7' big who has game... that seems to be the way, rambis knows how to make it work. he's a good coach ,good def. mind also...

mavwar53
06-25-2010, 04:22 PM
I'm not high on johnson either so I understand you there, the didn't do very good IMO but they are a poor franchise

Hawkeye15
06-25-2010, 04:23 PM
Most, maybe all of what you said about Johnson is dead on accurate. But you basically described a strong role player scoring 15ppg. How is that any better than trading down for extra picks and drafting Xavier Henry? The question you have to ask, can Johnson create his own offense in the half court? If not, then you drafted a player with the max ceiling of a 3rd best player on a contending team. For your sake, I hope I'm wrong.

Henry went to Memphis before we could even look at him.
I just described Shawn Marion/Jim Jackson dude. They are alright, if I remember correctly...

Cousins is this year's Beasley. Beyong talented, but f'ed in the head. He is not worth it to bring into a 15 win team and ask him to become a star. Not in my book. But don't worry, the draft has plenty of time to be judged.

Hawkeye15
06-25-2010, 04:25 PM
I'm not high on johnson either so I understand you there, the didn't do very good IMO but they are a poor franchise

coming from a Warriors fan. Just saying
Udoh? Really?
not trying to start an argument, but that is like calling the Astros calling the Pirates bad

brandonwarne52
06-25-2010, 04:27 PM
We didn't draft Babbitt and we didn't draft Lawson.

Googlyeyes101
06-25-2010, 04:28 PM
coming from a Warriors fan. Just saying
Udoh? Really?
not trying to start an argument, but that is like calling the Astros calling the Pirates bad

at least baron's warriors made the playoffs recently...the twolves haven't been relevant since 04

Big Quett
06-25-2010, 04:30 PM
coming from a Warriors fan. Just saying
Udoh? Really?
not trying to start an argument, but that is like calling the Astros calling the Pirates bad

Lol....Hawk you know i hate to agree with you but i was pretty much thinking the same thing. The Warriors are as dysfunctional as they get. But atleast they are fun to watch and they got in right last year in the draft.

Hawkeye15
06-25-2010, 04:30 PM
at least baron's warriors made the playoffs recently...the twolves haven't been relevant since 04

the point is, the Warriors are a poorly run franchise, and a fan of them is calling the Wolves a poorly run franchise. Do we see this being odd yet?

Hawkeye15
06-25-2010, 04:31 PM
Lol....Hawk you know i hate to agree with you but i was pretty much thinking the same thing. The Warriors are as dysfunctional as they get. But atleast they are fun to watch and they got in right last year in the draft.

I thought we were buddies
:(

Big Quett
06-25-2010, 04:31 PM
We didn't draft Babbitt and we didn't draft Lawson.

well actually you did. And you call yourself a T-Wolves fan?:facepalm:

Hawkeye15
06-25-2010, 04:32 PM
well actually you did. And you call yourself a T-Wolves fan?:facepalm:

we drafted them for another team is what he is saying. Cmon now, you know that.

Big Quett
06-25-2010, 04:33 PM
I thought we were buddies
:(

lol...yeah we used to have those ummm "friendly" Love and Mayo debates. But deep in my heart you know we are bff's....lol

Big Quett
06-25-2010, 04:35 PM
we drafted them for another team is what he is saying. Cmon now, you know that.
no that isnt what he said or meant and you know it. the point is you drafted them first and then traded them. Stop taking up for him. At least you know what your talking about...um well sometimes

Hawkeye15
06-25-2010, 04:41 PM
no that isnt what he said or meant and you know it. the point is you drafted them first and then traded them. Stop taking up for him. At least you know what your talking about...all the time

well, they did in fact make those picks with a trade in place. So they picked those players for the other team.

Hawkeye15
06-25-2010, 04:41 PM
and I am right on that.

Tennessee Mav
06-25-2010, 04:42 PM
this is just what minnesotas new draft regime just does

they draft for only one position and hope one turns into a superstar

last yr draft 3 point guards (rubio flynn and lawson)

this yr draft 2 Small fowards and trade for another (johnson, heyward, and trade for webster)

next years draft they will go after 3 shooting guards or 3 centers so they will get their man eventually


Wasn't it a total of 4 SF's? Didn't they draft a foreign player in the 2nd round?

Big Quett
06-25-2010, 04:43 PM
well, they did in fact make those picks with a trade in place. So they picked those players for the other team.
Not the point. He didn't mean it that way. He came in and just said it so bold and defiantly like he knew he was right. You and I both know he really didnt think you guys drafted those guys because they weren't on the team. And if it was anybody else for any other team you would have busted him for that and you know it.

Just honestly tell me im lying and i will leave it alone.

srbaseball2003
06-25-2010, 04:44 PM
This is a ridicoulous post by a guy who knows nothing about our organization...nuff said.

WSU Tony
06-25-2010, 04:46 PM
Johnson is a safe pick and an impressive athlete who can also shoot some. But not many people see him creating much offense for himself or his teammates. He looks more like a forward when he puts the ball on the floor, than someone who has future elite swingman stamped on him.

If Cousins loses the weight, I think he has more upside than Johnson.

Minnesota already has two young big men on their team who are more known for their offense than their defense. They were afraid to draft another big with similar strengths and weaknesses....even though Cousins is easily the most talented player of the 3.

But let's say for argument's sake that I am wrong about Johnson. Is Webster that much better than Gomes, that you throw Babbitt into the deal? And is Lazar Hayward more talented than Booker?

If we drafted a PF for the next year we'd hear, wow your going to play Love, Jefferson, and Cousins?

This whole thread is a bait imo.

Johnson was the best player available, we took him.

wannabGM
06-25-2010, 04:50 PM
Henry went to Memphis before we could even look at him.
I just described Shawn Marion/Jim Jackson dude. They are alright, if I remember correctly...

Cousins is this year's Beasley. Beyong talented, but f'ed in the head. He is not worth it to bring into a 15 win team and ask him to become a star. Not in my book. But don't worry, the draft has plenty of time to be judged.

Notice that I said trade down for Henry plus value. Maybe another team would have traded a later pick in the top 12 plus an additional pick in either this draft or the future to move up to the 4 spot. Henry plus additional value was maybe a better play than drafting Johnson. There is no way for me to know exactly what was out there trade-wise, but I think it was probably possible.

Hawkeye15
06-25-2010, 04:50 PM
Not the point. He didn't mean it that way. He came in and just said it so bold and defiantly like he knew he was right. You and I both know he really didnt think you guys drafted those guys because they weren't on the team. And if it was anybody else for any other team you would have busted him for that and you know it.

Just honestly tell me im lying and i will leave it alone.

haha, dude, I have no idea if he meant it the way it read. I am only saying "I" know they drafted those players for another team.

Big Quett
06-25-2010, 04:52 PM
haha, dude, I have no idea if he meant it the way it read. I am only saying "I" know they drafted those players for another team.

hahaha yes thats what i thought. Homer to the end i see.....ok im done

Hawkeye15
06-25-2010, 04:52 PM
Notice that I said trade down for Henry plus value. Maybe another team would have traded a later pick in the top 12 plus an additional pick in either this draft or the future to move up to the 4 spot. Henry plus additional value was maybe a better play than drafting Johnson. There is no way for me to know exactly what was out there trade-wise, but I think it was probably possible.

well, its obvious our evaluations of Wesley Johnson are not the same.
I like to let them play a game or two before I call their career.

and I addressed the trades.

We are done here. The entire thread is a bait from someone who doesn't have the slightest idea about the Wolves over the past 2 years except from what they have read.

Oefarmy2005
06-25-2010, 04:52 PM
I don't know about that .. Wes Johnson looks like he could become a all-star in 2-3 years but after the 4th pick I thought they def were going for a big man and some good prospects to fill in certain positions. They had that many draft picks that in 2-3 years time they could have had at least 3-4 rising all-stars on their team just from this draft alone. But Kahn decided to draft what ever his heart desired (kind of like a kid in a toy store , they don't need the toy but just wanted because it looks nice to him) thats what I see in kahn.. he has no clue to what he is doing and at this rate I do not think he will remain GM very long.

Really, like who. We've been raped for the last 20 years on draft picks. We've been picking 3 and 4th in 2 player drafts forever. I agree that perhaps Babbit for Wester was a bad trade, but it's not like Babbit will be a superstar - Jason Kapono at best and I'll take Webster over him. Kahn thought wanted to dump Gomes so any argument that we over payed for Wester - only if Babbit > Webster, which I am not sure since I don't know anything about either. Sending Gomes to Portrland was what Kahn pushed for and not the other way around - to save some money. I think the 23rd pick is bad, because they could have take Jordan Crawford and I have no idea who Lazar Hayward is.

Hawkeye15
06-25-2010, 04:54 PM
Hayward is a SF who was forced to play PF/C for the smallish Marquette. He is of the Posey/Gomes mold.

wannabGM
06-25-2010, 04:54 PM
If we drafted a PF for the next year we'd hear, wow your going to play Love, Jefferson, and Cousins?

This whole thread is a bait imo.

Johnson was the best player available, we took him.

Ever hear of a 3 person rotation? That's 96 minutes for 3 players. You do the math. Again, since the Love/Jefferson combo is getting your franchise nowhere fast, why worry about upsetting them by moving one of them to the bench. Jefferson could be a 6 man scorer off the bench for the TWolves and not lose any of his trade value. His weaknesses have already kind of been exposed.

You could maintain the value of Love and Cousins and eventually move one of them down the road in a bigger trade if need be. Cousins is more of a center and Love more of a PF anyway.

NBAfan4life
06-25-2010, 04:59 PM
I'm from Mn but I hate the wolves I don't think we pick the right guy or keep the right people IMO.

This year is no different bad picks.

I hope the players they picked or the trades they possibly make prove me wrong.

Hawkeye15
06-25-2010, 05:04 PM
Ever hear of a 3 person rotation? That's 96 minutes for 3 players. You do the math. Again, since the Love/Jefferson combo is getting your franchise nowhere fast, why worry about upsetting them by moving one of them to the bench. Jefferson could be a 6 man scorer off the bench for the TWolves and not lose any of his trade value. His weaknesses have already kind of been exposed.

we are attempting to trade either Jefferson or Love. They don't work on the defensive side of the ball. Cousins does nothing to improve the lack of athleticism down low. He is a basket case. He is not worth the risk. Ask Miami if they would rather have Mayo, Love, Westbrook, Gallo, do I need to go on?
We also own the rights to another 6'11" huge PF/C in Europe who is coming over, Pekovic. So when you have two players that you value high, and you are dying for wing scoring and athleticism, its pretty easy.
I have always been an advocate of taking the most value with a pick when you are a bad team. I don't think Cousins warranted the pick.
The Wolves will most likely be bringing Milicic back. He showed in a small sample of playing time good mobility and defensive ability, and can pass the ball. This summer has just started. To rate this draft, for all 30 teams, you will have to wait until the dust settles. Its an easy call for Philly. They had one pick. Done. Over with. Having multiple picks, will lead to options. This is an easy concept to understand, correct?

Wesley Johnson may very well be nothing more than a 3rd option in the NBA. So may Evan Turner. None of us know until the games start man. So to start a thread the day after, like you are Chad Ford grading the drafts, is just as premature as him, or any so called "expert", doing so.

brandonwarne52
06-25-2010, 05:06 PM
well actually you did. And you call yourself a T-Wolves fan?:facepalm:

Use the good part of your brain.

brandonwarne52
06-25-2010, 05:06 PM
well, they did in fact make those picks with a trade in place. So they picked those players for the other team.

...and this is 100% the point I'm making. Better know your **** before calling me out, rook.

Thisisouryear!!
06-25-2010, 05:07 PM
not as bad as the knicks

knicks had two second rounders, its always a crap shoot in that round....

Timberwolves have easily one of the worst GMS in the NBA.

Oefarmy2005
06-25-2010, 05:10 PM
Notice that I said trade down for Henry plus value. Maybe another team would have traded a later pick in the top 12 plus an additional pick in either this draft or the future to move up to the 4 spot. Henry plus additional value was maybe a better play than drafting Johnson. There is no way for me to know exactly what was out there trade-wise, but I think it was probably possible.

Dude, I really don't get why all the Sixers fans are hating on the Wolves lately. Guess what, I think that we did much better then you in this draft, period, although overall both our drafts sucked. You guys didn't get rid of Brands contract like you "probably could have while trading down", so that makes it a terrible draft for the sixers. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

ZHawk1123
06-25-2010, 05:11 PM
Not bad at all... I see Wes Johnson being a possible rookie of the year candidate this season and an all star in 3-4 years.

Adding him gives them a lineup of:

PG: Johnny Flynn
SG: Martell Webster
SF: Wes Johnson
PF: Kevin Love
C: Al Jefferson
6th Man: Corey Brewer

That is a nice young core if you ask me.

Hawkeye15
06-25-2010, 05:11 PM
Not bad at all... I see Wes Johnson being a possible rookie of the year candidate this season and an all star in 3-4 years.

Adding him gives them a lineup of:

PG: Johnny Flynn
SG: Martell Webster
SF: Wes Johnson
PF: Kevin Love
C: Al Jefferson
6th Man: Corey Brewer

That is a nice young core if you ask me.

with some Spanish kid in Europe coming over next summer. Can't remember his name...

wannabGM
06-25-2010, 05:13 PM
we are attempting to trade either Jefferson or Love. They don't work on the defensive side of the ball. Cousins does nothing to improve the lack of athleticism down low. He is a basket case. He is not worth the risk. Ask Miami if they would rather have Mayo, Love, Westbrook, Gallo, do I need to go on?
We also own the rights to another 6'11" huge PF/C in Europe who is coming over, Pekovic. So when you have two players that you value high, and you are dying for wing scoring and athleticism, its pretty easy.
I have always been an advocate of taking the most value with a pick when you are a bad team. I don't think Cousins warranted the pick.
The Wolves will most likely be bringing Milicic back. He showed in a small sample of playing time good mobility and defensive ability, and can pass the ball. This summer has just started. To rate this draft, for all 30 teams, you will have to wait until the dust settles. Its an easy call for Philly. They had one pick. Done. Over with. Having multiple picks, will lead to options. This is an easy concept to understand, correct?

Wesley Johnson may very well be nothing more than a 3rd option in the NBA. So may Evan Turner. None of us know until the games start man. So to start a thread the day after, like you are Chad Ford grading the drafts, is just as premature as him, or any so called "expert", doing so.

That's the problem with the argument. Jefferson does not have high value. He is currently a difficult player to move, and likely will remain so until his deal is expiring no matter who you guys took in this draft.

If you feel that Wes Johnson is the best player on the board regardless of position(and that is a legit belief although I disagree), then that's ok. But I think Minnesota's brass was making the mistake of factoring in their two big men in the decision. At least to some extent you are doing the same thing. And to a much greater extent, so are most TWolve fans who are in favor of the trades/picks.

Love and Cousins could have both gotten 30+ min/night with the way your roster is currently set up.

Minny's moves smelled a bit like desperation to me to cover up for past mistakes. But I guess time will tell.

Hawkeye15
06-25-2010, 05:19 PM
That's the problem with the argument. Jefferson does not have high value. He is currently a difficult player to move, and likely will remain so until his deal is expiring no matter who you guys took in this draft.

If you feel that Wes Johnson is the best player on the board regardless of position(and that is a legit belief although I disagree), then that's ok. But I think Minnesota's brass was making the mistake of factoring in their two big men in the decision. At least to some extent you are doing the same thing. And to a much greater extent, so are most TWolve fans who are in favor of the trade.

how would you know what Jefferson's value was? Oh yeah, because of the constant twitters saying he was going here or there...
You will find me to be one of the most subjective fans out there regarding my own team. Did you read the link to my thread on pg 1?
We all should be questioning our team, and its leadership every decision they make unless you are a top 3 team.

Regarding Jefferson, his 2nd half of the season, he was back to his former game. However, due to this being a developmental year, his minutes were limited to see what our other bigs could do. He will not be traded to be traded. He doesn't fit the triangle, or alongside Love, so one will have to go, but if we don't get value for him this offseason, then he comes back next season, goes for 22/11 again, and we move him then
And remember when I was talking about how everyone is at a standstill currently? This is because the biggest free agent crop in recent history is about to hit the market with multiple teams capable of paying them. Everyone is waiting until the gunfight starts before they get in on it. When teams miss on their big targets (Amare, Bosh, maybe Boozer), they will be calling Kahn. Trust me.

and yes, Johnson was the best available at #4, and it was an easy call when you factor in Cousin's mental state.

You are very rational, and I respect your opinion. But I would think if you revisit all the draft day after grades by various experts over the past few years, you will get a chuckle.

wannabGM
06-25-2010, 05:23 PM
Dude, I really don't get why all the Sixers fans are hating on the Wolves lately. Guess what, I think that we did much better then you in this draft, period, although overall both our drafts sucked. You guys didn't get rid of Brands contract like you "probably could have while trading down", so that makes it a terrible draft for the sixers. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I guess a lot of Sixers fans (myself especially) were interested in the TWolves draft because there was some talk of trading all 3 of your first round picks for the 2nd overall. Although a strong majority was in favor of drafting Turner, I wasn't as sure. Those 3 picks I thought held some decent value in this draft. No superstars...but a good shot at 3 players with some potential.

There was also some talk in the past of trading Jefferson for Iguodala, but I think most Sixers fans have come to their senses on that one.

Hawkeye15
06-25-2010, 05:23 PM
http://www.nbadraft.net/node/7960

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2009/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=DraftGrades-090626

already bored of looking them up. You get my point

Hawkeye15
06-25-2010, 05:24 PM
I guess a lot of Sixers fans (myself especially) were interested in the TWolves draft because there was some talk of trading all 3 of your first round picks for the 2nd overall. Although a strong majority was in favor of drafting Turner, I wasn't as sure. Those 3 picks I thought held some decent value in this draft. No superstars...but a good shot at 3 players with some potential.

There was also some talk in the past of trading Jefferson for Iguodala, but I think most Sixers fans have come to their senses on that one.

haha, why would Sixer fans want this? Not that Jefferson isn't a big upgrade over Brand, but you would be paying $28 million a year for your PF position

DerekRE_3
06-25-2010, 05:28 PM
http://www.nbadraft.net/node/7960

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2009/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=DraftGrades-090626

already bored of looking them up. You get my point

Yep, Ford gave the Kings a B+ when it's pretty much a no brainer that they had an A+ draft.

Hawkeye15
06-25-2010, 05:32 PM
Yep, Ford gave the Kings a B+ when it's pretty much a no brainer that they had an A+ draft.

he also said Rubio would be a much better fit.

This is my point. Its pointless to create these threads and judge a draft one day, or shoot, even one month, after it happens. Most drafts can't be evaulated until 2 years down the line.

wannabGM
06-25-2010, 05:33 PM
haha, why would Sixer fans want this? Not that Jefferson isn't a big upgrade over Brand, but you would be paying $28 million a year for your PF position

Most Sixers fans don't want it now. Many would like to dump Iggy's salary, because he has become the scapegoat for this organization's failures, but have realized that 20 and 10 PF's from bad teams aren't all they are cracked up to be. Despite being a much better scorer, I'm not sure the Sixers would be any better with Jefferson than Brand. Brand can at least make an impact defensively on most nights if that is his role.

The Brand signing was horrible. But I'm just pointing out how low Jefferson's trade value has fallen. It's not that much higher than Brand at the moment. So worrying about Jefferson's trade value if Cousins is drafted is a mistake on the part of TWolve fans/management. I think that big Al's trade value factors highly and mistakenly in the thoughts most have on the TWolve's draft.

DerekRE_3
06-25-2010, 05:33 PM
he also said Rubio would be a much better fit.

This is my point. Its pointless to create these threads and judge a draft one day, or shoot, even one month, after it happens. Most drafts can't be evaulated until 2 years down the line.

Yep, agreed.

Hawkeye15
06-25-2010, 05:35 PM
Most fans don't want it now. Many would like to dump Iggy's salary, but have realized that 20 and 10 PF's from bad teams aren't all they are cracked up to be. Despite being a much better scorer, I'm not sure the Sixers would be any better with Jefferson than Brand. Brand can at least make an impact defensively on most nights if that is his role.

well, its easy to forget how good Jefferson was offensively both before the injury, and over the last 30 games of this past season. But whatever. It just doesn't make sense anyways

Tony_Starks
06-25-2010, 05:36 PM
This year Kahn actually did a decent job of drafting and trading...... when compared to the monumental screw off of what was last years draft that is.

Hawkeye15
06-25-2010, 05:38 PM
This year Kahn actually did a decent job of drafting and trading...... when compared to the monumental screw off of what was last years draft that is.

totally. We got a 13.5/5 PG in Flynn, a SG who led the NBA in 3pt% from January on in the NBA, and the best young guard in Europe.
Horrible draft.

20GoodTimes20
06-25-2010, 05:39 PM
David Kahn is a joke.

Oefarmy2005
06-25-2010, 05:39 PM
Most fans don't want it now. Many would like to dump Iggy's salary, but have realized that 20 and 10 PF's from bad teams aren't all they are cracked up to be. Despite being a much better scorer, I'm not sure the Sixers would be any better with Jefferson than Brand. Brand can at least make an impact defensively on most nights if that is his role.

The Brand signing was horrible. But I'm just pointing out how low Jefferson's trade value has fallen. It's not that much higher than Brand at the moment.


Trust me, 18 and 5 small SF's from bad teams are nothing special either, that's why it would be even value. But looking at what we have now, we don't need Iggi anymore and you guys sure as hell don't need Jefferson. Both are overpaid right now, but both have the potential to turn it around in 1 season and be worth the money they are paid.

Hawkeye15
06-25-2010, 05:40 PM
David Kahn is a joke.

insightful

ldc62
06-25-2010, 05:40 PM
Wes Johnson was a good pick, but it was avg after that. They really shoulda drafted a C since they are trying to move Al.

Oefarmy2005
06-25-2010, 05:41 PM
David Kahn is a joke.

Great evaluation. Very consise.

Kyben36
06-25-2010, 05:41 PM
they also got Luke babbit who has plenty of upside.

lance008
06-25-2010, 05:44 PM
David Kahn is a joke.

The real joke is our draft history. Kahn is just trying his best to continue our reputation. :clap:

Oefarmy2005
06-25-2010, 05:45 PM
They did just fine, compared to drafting Ndudi Ebi and Rashard McCants. And maybe even Corey Brewer. Do you guys remember how much crap the Wolves got for trading Love for Mayo and now every expert will tell you we made out like bandits since we also dumped Jaric and his rediculus contract.

wannabGM
06-25-2010, 05:47 PM
Trust me, 18 and 5 small SF's from bad teams are nothing special either, that's why it would be even value. But looking at what we have now, we don't need Iggi anymore and you guys sure as hell don't need Jefferson. Both are overpaid right now, but both have the potential to turn it around in 1 season and be worth the money they are paid.

I'm sorry there is no way Iggy and Al Jeff have the same value in the league. Iggy can defend, has shown than he can be a 20/5/5 player on a winning team, and averaged close to 22 ppg in the playoffs while giving Orlando a mini scare in the first round of the playoffs. Iggy probably isn't 20/5/5 on a championship team, but he could at least make a big contribution for one. Jefferson does not make an impact defensively, and does not make his teammates better.

You are mistakenly attributing the Sixers failures last season more to Iguodala than their horrible head coach at the time. Eddie Jordan was married to the philosophy of the Princeton offense, despite a roster that was a bad fit. And the GM thought he could go into the season without an experienced point guard on the roster because the Princeton in theory didn't require a true point. Boy, was he wrong.

central2003
06-25-2010, 05:48 PM
When i said you guys could of had 3-4 all-stars just from this draft from the amount of picks the wolves had.. other than Wes Johnson who I know will be a all-star you guys should have gotten Grevis Vasqez, James Anderson, and Daniel Orton just as a back up incase you guys trade Love or Jefferson.. But you guys didn't do horrible like some people exaggerate it to be.

lance008
06-25-2010, 05:51 PM
They did just fine, compared to drafting Ndudi Ebi and Rashard McCants. And maybe even Corey Brewer. Do you guys remember how much crap the Wolves got for trading Love for Mayo and now every expert will tell you we made out like bandits since we also dumped Jaric and his rediculus contract.

Easy now, you are trampling some of our best material. Its tough to tell jokes and get laughs when you follow up a brilliant one-liner like "Ndudi Ebi" with some citations of positive wolves management moments.

Widowmaker2k
06-25-2010, 05:52 PM
It wasn't necessarily a bad draft, it was just somewhat underwhelming. The very first piece a rebuilding franchise needs to get is a franchise player, and I don't think they walked away with anybody that has that kind of potential. Lottery teams shouldn't be drafting need, they should always go BPA. That being said, they got some guys who will almost certainly make them a better team, so it's not like they've come out empty-handed.

ldc62
06-25-2010, 05:54 PM
They did just fine, compared to drafting Ndudi Ebi and Rashard McCants. And maybe even Corey Brewer. Do you guys remember how much crap the Wolves got for trading Love for Mayo and now every expert will tell you we made out like bandits since we also dumped Jaric and his rediculus contract.

David Kahn didn't do any of that though...

DaveDevries
06-25-2010, 05:58 PM
knicks had two second rounders, its always a crap shoot in that round....

Timberwolves have easily one of the worst GMS in the NBA.

Is this really a knicks fan making fun of the Wolves. Haha whatever man. its impossible to judge a guy after one year. Unless of course your jealous of Rubio. Then its warranted i guess.

This year Kahn actually did a decent job of drafting and trading...... when compared to the monumental screw off of what was last years draft that is.

Yep such a bad draft we had. Terrible. He should be fired right now because all of those guys are out of the league and working at shopko. Its been a year man

David Kahn is a joke.

So is this post

Wes Johnson was a good pick, but it was avg after that. They really shoulda drafted a C since they are trying to move Al.

Jefferson isnt a Center first of all. We have Darko and were not done dealing

they also got Luke babbit who has plenty of upside.

We traded him to Portland for Martell Webster

Hustla23
06-25-2010, 05:59 PM
Why the hell is there a thread about Minny's draft every year ? :laugh:

"Minnesota Timberwolves Draft Forum" should be a sub-forum of the NBA forum. :laugh:

I like the Wes Johnson pick, although I would have taken Cousins with the pick. Wes is already 23 ! And when you're in full rebuilding mode like the Wolves, you gotta take the best talents available.

I disagree with the Cousins-Beasley comparisons. Cousins, unlike Beasley, is not a tweener and actually has legitimate size and possesses monstrous strength. He has great physical peripherals and he is scarily skilled.

But I can understand Minny being scared off by the reports of Cousins's demeanor issues. But unless a player got into major trouble, I wouldn't pay too much mind to that. I mean Tyreke Evans was reported to have taken part in a MURDER, and you don't see him floundering in Sac-town.

Even still, Wes has great talent and Minny has some good bigs in Love and Jefferson already. A SF with his abilities would fit in nicely.

I am puzzled by the Webster trade. Webster is not worth anything and Portland was trying to dump him for pretty much anything. Minny giving up some decent picks for him was a very questionable move.

20GoodTimes20
06-25-2010, 06:03 PM
Great evaluation. Very consise.

I dont dislike the T-Wolves. Just feel that Kahns narcissim shows through a little too much, especially in interviews.

Good luck to you guys next year. Hope you can get more than 15 wins :)

csenoner
06-25-2010, 06:04 PM
not as bad as the knicks

Yeah, but the Knicks didn't have 4 first round picks. In the second round you take what you can. We ended up with a 7'1" center, a bull dog of a SF who was very productive and efficient in college and a niche player in rautins who is a lights out 3pt shooter, who passes the ball wel and will work his *** off.

I think the point that's being made here is that last year Minni took 3 pgs and this year they took 3 sfs. They still don't have a good SG and need a C if they are trying to dump jefferson.

I am not wild about any of their picks including Wes Johnson who is being overhyped. the man is already 23 years old, meaning he was a man amongst boys last year. Those players typically don't develop much more. I mean he scored 16.5 ppg as an elder statesman in ncaa what makes you think he will do better as a youngster in the NBA.

I think despite all the concerns about cousins you gotta take him. for me there were only 3 guys with all star games in their future and you need to take one of them if available: wall, favors and cousins. I think turner will be a good player but he doesnt have the upside talent to be a star that these guys have.

20GoodTimes20
06-25-2010, 06:04 PM
The real joke is our draft history. Kahn is just trying his best to continue our reputation. :clap:

:clap:

topdog
06-25-2010, 06:06 PM
:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Oh man, so first everyone is ripping on the wolves for having 2 good PFs and drafting 2 good PGs and now it's "they drafted too many SFs." Well, at worst, we'll have 2 good players at every position in 2 years.

I don't get why everyone is so anti-Wes Johnson when he impressed just about everybody in workouts, is athletic and has a sweet stroke. Everyone wrote Roy off as too old and at his full potential too and we saw how that has turned out.

Martell is a former 6th pick who can stroke it and who was projected as a SG when he 1st entered the league - the only real difference between SG and SF is if you can guard that position so I really just see the guys we got as "wings." Btw, we had no wings last year and got attacked for that.

Hayward is somewhat of a mystery pick at the moment, but the following 2 picks took full advantage of the Wolves great international scouting and keep their cap clean.

What is everyone's obsession with the T-wolves?

97NYer
06-25-2010, 06:07 PM
not that bad at all. stop being a hater. they wanted to get a stock up on wing players becuz they have three bigs on the roster and another one coming from europe. i hate when people judge teams when they dont know the situation

Who's the one coming in from Europe?

VikingsWin2869
06-25-2010, 06:08 PM
:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Oh man, so first everyone is ripping on the wolves for having 2 good PFs and drafting 2 good PGs and now it's "they drafted too many SFs." Well, at worst, we'll have 2 good players at every position in 2 years.

I don't get why everyone is so anti-Wes Johnson when he impressed just about everybody in workouts, is athletic and has a sweet stroke. Everyone wrote Roy off as too old and at his full potential too and we saw how that has turned out.

Martell is a former 6th pick who can stroke it and who was projected as a SG when he 1st entered the league - the only real difference between SG and SF is if you can guard that position so I really just see the guys we got as "wings." Btw, we had no wings last year and got attacked for that.

Hayward is somewhat of a mystery pick at the moment, but the following 2 picks took full advantage of the Wolves great international scouting and keep their cap clean.

What is everyone's obsession with the T-wolves?

They're jealous, we have Rubio :clap:

VikingsWin2869
06-25-2010, 06:09 PM
Who's the one coming in from Europe?

Pekovic

heatking
06-25-2010, 06:09 PM
The Wolves are no question the worst franchise in the NBA. I just dont see how you can explain their mediocrity. It ranges from drafting, to coaching, and to simply making bad moves overall.

Now they are trying to trade their only legit player because he had one bad season.... Thats like the heat trading Dwade after the 07 season. Outside of Al Jefferson they have noone that can create their own shot.

Flynn is a nice young player, but he has a great fault which is size... you cant win in the NBA when your point guard is 5"11. In no way do i hate the franchise i just cant see where they are going. They are in for a 5-10 year rebuilding process.

EDIT (Wolves)

DaveDevries
06-25-2010, 06:10 PM
Who's the one coming in from Europe?

Nikola Pekovic, with Rubio following a year later

DaveDevries
06-25-2010, 06:11 PM
The hawks are no question the worst franchise in the NBA. I just dont see how you can explain their mediocrity. It ranges from drafting, to coaching, and to simply making bad moves overall.

Now they are trying to trade their only legit player because he had one bad season.... Thats like the heat trading Dwade after the 07 season. Outside of Al Jefferson they have noone that can create their own shot.

Flynn is a nice young player, but he has a great fault which is size... you cant win in the NBA when your point guard is 5"11. In no way do i hate the franchise i just cant see where they are going. They are in for a 5-10 year rebuilding process.

The Hawks? Learn the game before you run your mouth

heatking
06-25-2010, 06:14 PM
The Hawks? Learn the game before you run your mouth

Come on son... dont get butthurt over a mistake.

Phat Pat 94
06-25-2010, 06:15 PM
you know, i really am not sure how bad it was, but many people are looking at it as bad. Too bad none of these players has played an nba game yet. I think we'll know 3 years from now. Wes Johnson, IMO, is the most NBA ready player in the draft, and you can look that up in many threads ive posted in. Ive thought that for a while. Cousins could be better, but he seems like he doesnt even like basketball and is just being forced to play it.

dnl123
06-25-2010, 06:17 PM
Don't worry he's not butthurt he just wishes you had an IQ over 70.

Phat Pat 94
06-25-2010, 06:18 PM
The Wolves are no question the worst franchise in the NBA. I just dont see how you can explain their mediocrity. It ranges from drafting, to coaching, and to simply making bad moves overall.

Now they are trying to trade their only legit player because he had one bad season.... Thats like the heat trading Dwade after the 07 season. Outside of Al Jefferson they have noone that can create their own shot.

Flynn is a nice young player, but he has a great fault which is size... you cant win in the NBA when your point guard is 5"11. In no way do i hate the franchise i just cant see where they are going. They are in for a 5-10 year rebuilding process.

EDIT (Wolves)I disagree with a couple points you make here, respectively. I dont believe, actually, I KNOW theyre not looking to trade al jeff because he had a bad year. Theyre looking to trade him because we are rebuilding, hes not a player you build around, and he can net us some serious assets. Now, i dont think flynn is the future. I think theyre gonna get rubio, who is 6'5. I think a lineup centered around Rubio, Love, and Wes could be a pretty good start for a rebuilding franchise.

heatking
06-25-2010, 06:19 PM
Its ok Wolves fans... I went throught the same thing with the Dolphins for some time. Im in no way hating on the franchise. Im just stating the facts.

cwilson21
06-25-2010, 06:20 PM
I love people grading drafts just one day after it took place. Here are some classic gems from Chad Ford on previous draft classes:


CF on Dorell Wright: He's a couple of years away, but he reminds me of a young Tracy McGrady type.

CF on Sacramento: I think their draft was OK. I actually prefer Minard to Martin but can understand Martin's appeal. He ranked second in the nation in scoring last season. With Gerald Wallace being drafted by the Bobcats, the Kings really needed a player who could step in and give them some minutes at shooting guard. Martin needs to gain strength and weight, but he's a great athlete who knows how to score. Minard could be the next Ronald Murray, which would be a very nice addition in Sacramento.

CF: Darko is really one of a kind. He runs the floor, handles the ball, shoots the NBA 3 and plays with his back to the basket, so you can slot him in at the 3, 4 or 5 positions. OK, a few other guys can do that too; what sets Darko apart is his toughness in the post. You have to love a guy who has the footwork to spin by an opponent but still prefers to lower a shoulder and bang. Fact is, Milicic plays in attack-mode at both ends of the floor. The more you push, the more he pushes back. While he won't be asked to carry the Pistons, he's capable of doing this earlier than you think.

CF on Collison: Ugh. We knew they loved him, but I know more than one Sonics fan hoped he was off the board. They needed a low post banger or someone with great size in the post who could also run the floor. Collison has none of that. He was one of my favorite college players, but I really wonder how he'll translate that into a good pro career. Who does he guard? Can he back down anyone? Will he command double teams in the post? The Sonics love him. I'm not sure I do. I would've preferred Illinois' Brian Cook.

CF on Reece Gaines: This is the guy they wanted all along. Doc Rivers loves big point guards, especially ones that can shoot the rock. This is the first pick that has made sense since the Raptors took Bosh at No. 4. Great pick for Orlando.

CF on David West: Not a bad pick. He's kind of a shorter version of P.J. Brown. But why not take a flier here on Brian Cook? Cook is taller, a more well-rounded player, and could help stretch defenses with his perimeter skills. West will be a solid player. But at No. 18 you could get so much more.

CF: Some will say the Warriors took Diogu too high. I don't think so. I think the Elton Brand comparisons could be dead on. He'll add much needed toughness and rebounding up front and he's more skilled than teams give him credit for.

CF: Danny Ainge pulled off one of the best drafts of 2004, but he topped himself this year -- and he got two guys named Green/Greene to boot. Gerald Green should have been a top six pick in the draft based on his talent and potential. Al Jefferson from last year's draft and Green from this year's draft could be superstars down the road.

CF: Bernie Bickerstaff played it safe again and went with the most proven player in the draft. Adam Morrison will score points and he'll draw fans into the arena. The Bobcats continue filling the team with solid players who have good backgrounds -- and with Morrison they may have found their first star.

CF: I like Patrick O'Bryant and think he's one of the four or five best upside guys in this draft. And the Warriors had a need at center. So what's the problem?

CF: They needed size in the frontcourt and got two of the top four bigs in the draft with Hilton Armstrong and Cedric Simmons.

CF: I'm a big fan of Alexander Johnson, especially in the second round. He is a poor man's Kenyon Martin and adds some toughness to their front line.

CF: Obviously the Marcus Williams pick was a slam dunk

brandonwarne52
06-25-2010, 06:22 PM
Wes Johnson was a good pick, but it was avg after that. They really shoulda drafted a C since they are trying to move Al.

I think they're planning on keeping Darko.

DaveDevries
06-25-2010, 06:23 PM
Its ok Wolves fans... I went throught the same thing with the Dolphins for some time. Im in no way hating on the franchise. Im just stating the facts.

Now if only your opinion was a fact

Phat Pat 94
06-25-2010, 06:30 PM
I love people grading drafts just one day after it took place. Here are some classic gems from Chad Ford on previous draft classes:


CF on Dorell Wright: He's a couple of years away, but he reminds me of a young Tracy McGrady type.

CF on Sacramento: I think their draft was OK. I actually prefer Minard to Martin but can understand Martin's appeal. He ranked second in the nation in scoring last season. With Gerald Wallace being drafted by the Bobcats, the Kings really needed a player who could step in and give them some minutes at shooting guard. Martin needs to gain strength and weight, but he's a great athlete who knows how to score. Minard could be the next Ronald Murray, which would be a very nice addition in Sacramento.

CF: Darko is really one of a kind. He runs the floor, handles the ball, shoots the NBA 3 and plays with his back to the basket, so you can slot him in at the 3, 4 or 5 positions. OK, a few other guys can do that too; what sets Darko apart is his toughness in the post. You have to love a guy who has the footwork to spin by an opponent but still prefers to lower a shoulder and bang. Fact is, Milicic plays in attack-mode at both ends of the floor. The more you push, the more he pushes back. While he won't be asked to carry the Pistons, he's capable of doing this earlier than you think.

CF on Collison: Ugh. We knew they loved him, but I know more than one Sonics fan hoped he was off the board. They needed a low post banger or someone with great size in the post who could also run the floor. Collison has none of that. He was one of my favorite college players, but I really wonder how he'll translate that into a good pro career. Who does he guard? Can he back down anyone? Will he command double teams in the post? The Sonics love him. I'm not sure I do. I would've preferred Illinois' Brian Cook.

CF on Reece Gaines: This is the guy they wanted all along. Doc Rivers loves big point guards, especially ones that can shoot the rock. This is the first pick that has made sense since the Raptors took Bosh at No. 4. Great pick for Orlando.

CF on David West: Not a bad pick. He's kind of a shorter version of P.J. Brown. But why not take a flier here on Brian Cook? Cook is taller, a more well-rounded player, and could help stretch defenses with his perimeter skills. West will be a solid player. But at No. 18 you could get so much more.

CF: Some will say the Warriors took Diogu too high. I don't think so. I think the Elton Brand comparisons could be dead on. He'll add much needed toughness and rebounding up front and he's more skilled than teams give him credit for.

CF: Danny Ainge pulled off one of the best drafts of 2004, but he topped himself this year -- and he got two guys named Green/Greene to boot. Gerald Green should have been a top six pick in the draft based on his talent and potential. Al Jefferson from last year's draft and Green from this year's draft could be superstars down the road.

CF: Bernie Bickerstaff played it safe again and went with the most proven player in the draft. Adam Morrison will score points and he'll draw fans into the arena. The Bobcats continue filling the team with solid players who have good backgrounds -- and with Morrison they may have found their first star.

CF: I like Patrick O'Bryant and think he's one of the four or five best upside guys in this draft. And the Warriors had a need at center. So what's the problem?

CF: They needed size in the frontcourt and got two of the top four bigs in the draft with Hilton Armstrong and Cedric Simmons.

CF: I'm a big fan of Alexander Johnson, especially in the second round. He is a poor man's Kenyon Martin and adds some toughness to their front line.

CF: Obviously the Marcus Williams pick was a slam dunk

ahahahahahahahahahahahaha

mavwar53
06-25-2010, 06:33 PM
coming from a Warriors fan. Just saying
Udoh? Really?
not trying to start an argument, but that is like calling the Astros calling the Pirates bad

I didn't say anything about my franchise, no argument necessary but with a new owner on the way at least I have hope. Too bad that hope couldn't have started last night though.

kEviN21
06-25-2010, 06:36 PM
Why so high on cousins when we have two other short centers? Thread Fail.

Kakaroach
06-25-2010, 06:40 PM
This thread has gone nowhere but baiting/insulting.